beta-ptr-spoilers

[sullen dawn]

It's something a king, queen, or emperor does

I find that it's gonna be difficult to deal with all the void lords and Azshara in a single expansion (although dimensius could be TWW final boss) so I think Azshara may have absorbed them or something similar

I think she's become the new leader of the void

And now she wants what she's always wanted, to rule the entirety of Azeroth and elevate her people above all others

So she's returning in midnight

[deep pawn]

I personally hope it's she helps us beat the void and she ascends as a void lord at the end but says she's beyond Azeroth now and will keep the void away from it.

Or she controls the void and helps us fight the Titans.

It would likely take us having alliances with Death and Void to defeat the Titans for good

But all we know is the void is dealt with for good and it makes the Titans mad somehow

[austere gazelle]

No, Metzen wouldn't spoil that.
Void cant be dealt with for good because that'll imply Light is also deal with for good " Without Light the is no Darkness , as Long as Light Endures, Shadow will exists ".

[deep pawn]

He or Holly literally said they're dealt with for good as a threat. That could mean we make peace with them somehow or otherwise

Or we smack them into submission

[austere gazelle]

We're on a pattern implying forces will come in harmony on Azeroth, first was Life and death with Amirdrassil, next will be light and void that will forge a truth somehow on Azeroth and be in harmony

All of this was implied in Shadowlands through the Oracles line and Zovaal's " cosmos divided " line

So I think Void as a force will somehow become something else with Light, maybe through Azshara

or we will have a sort of " Netherlight " force present on Azeroth

[sullen dawn]

I can definitely see this happening I just don't want it to be through Azshara

She's a genocidal tyrant

It's be like deciding Israel is suddenly redeemable

[rain cave]

Not fully

She has a soft spot for her people

But she's ultimately a narcissistic power hungry diva

Which is why I'm hoping they position her as an ally if convenience in midnight, and she let's the naga reconnect with us. Before going off on her own cosmic campaign

Whereupon she will become a baddy in future

[sullen dawn]

Yeh the ones who worship her

Malfurians crew weren't so lucky

[sleek solar]

Not really

She just wants to rule over them

Because how can you be a queen without a people to rule over

[sullen dawn]

She loves her people like an ant queen loves her colony

[sullen dawn]

I'm not against this, as long as it's purely "we have no other choice"

[sleek solar]

Well the elven tribers are going to be reunited, would be weird if Naga arent included

I would love to see the Night elves be cool again

Hopefully Shandris will bring the good changes

[timid jungle]

not rlly, theyre just all Tier 3 Simps for her so pretending she cares keeps them loyal

[rain cave]

It's still an affection

Even if its like a pet

She tries to save them in her warbringers

And she turns them into naga to keep them alive

[sullen dawn]

They shouldnt be included

They're evil AF

Hopefully the elves reunite and exterminate the Naga

They'll be a big part of midnight though I agree

[rain cave]

So were some of every race of elves

[sullen dawn]

Yeh but it's ALL naga

[rain cave]

How do you know?

[sullen dawn]

Hopefully they don't retcon that to push the "unity" narrative

[sullen dawn]

Because to date, that's what the game has told us

[rain cave]

They can always join us

We have manari on our side

[sullen dawn]

Yes but that's theoretical

I don't want it to change is what I'm saying

They don't deserve redemption

They deserve to be executed

[rain cave]

that's a bit harsh

[pulsar minnow]

I think it would be kinda lame to just maintain all Naga being evil in wow

Yes they’re the transformed Highborne of Azshara so they kinda all had a stick up their ass when they were elves, but I don’t see why the new generations of Naga would want to exactly remain loyal

Would be cool to have some naga who don’t like us but hate Azshara more

Especially for transforming them into these fish monsters

Also, I definitely feel like Azshara will just be our villain for Midnight. If you think about it Quel Thalas is basically the closest thing to Zin Azshari that’s left, and knowing her she probably wants that. Yes Suramar exists but it’s nowhere near the size of Quel Thalas

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/d/d2/Chronicle_Quel'Thalas.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160219182447

At least in lore

(Hopefully its midnight overhaul makes it finally reflect this image properly)

[sullen dawn]

Not every race needs to be nuanced. Some can just be blood thirsty power hungry servants of an arrogant queen

And that ok

[tulip sun]

Not really, especially when we have seen different Naga.

[sullen dawn]

It's not real life. In real life I'm all for unity and collectivism. In wow i prefer to have some of these faction hate each other without any chance of reconcilation

Like Warhammer 40k

[tulip sun]

Idk why Naga need to be this big evil target

This ain't Warhammer 40k

[sullen dawn]

No but it is world of Warcraft

[rain cave]

I think they missed chances here as well tbf

[sullen dawn]

There's been too much "everyone coming together". It's ok to have a few races that are just irredeemable

[rain cave]

like imo having some nelves and worgen go off and establish a splinter of the alliance after bfa

[sullen dawn]

Exactly

[rain cave]

and something similar in horde

as a lore reason to continue pvp and faction conflict

[sullen dawn]

Not everyone has to get along. That doesn't have to be the eventuality of every story/relationship

[tulip sun]

That's exactly what your arguing against. Races arnt monolithic

Neither should Naga be

[sullen dawn]

It doesn't even have to be the entire faction of the alliance. Have a sub faction who are hardcore, bleed blue till death kind of guys

And allow players to align with them for pvp stuff

[sullen dawn]

I agree most aren't

I think a few should be though

And I think the naga are a good condidate is all, but of course thata debatable

While the majority of races shouldn't be monoliths, there's space (and a need imo) for a few to be

[tulip sun]

Randomly picking one and saying their monolithic isn't exactly.
Good

[sullen dawn]

Who said random

[tulip sun]

Like why? Especially when we have worked with Naga and seen they're more complex

[sullen dawn]

That's a bit rude

[tulip sun]

It is random.

[sullen dawn]

Except I've thought about it and have reasons....

I didn't just throw a dart at nagas

[rain cave]

yes

[sullen dawn]

Anyway my argument isn't that there cant be a few stray naga who don't align with Azshara. It was arguing against them becoming potentially redeemed allies (and possibly an allied race)

[tulip sun]

But you havnt explained why.

[rain cave]

they could even do a cool mini factin aesthetic

[tulip sun]

But then you want other races to be more complex

While Naga can't be?

[rain cave]

like ashen night elves with ash from the world tree on them

[sullen dawn]

The large majority of them (if not all) are complicit in horrible horrible crimes against Azeroth

[rain cave]

ehhh not in the way you're thinking

because nightborne the same

manari the same

orcs the same

undead the same..

[sullen dawn]

It's not that they can't, it's that I feel it would be a retcon based on their behavior so far. And that we need some races to simply be irredeemable

[rain cave]

most naga's loyalty was to the queen who literally saved them from drowning.

Not to n'zoth

[sullen dawn]

Yes and imo forsaken are evil. That ok, I enjoyed roleplaying that way. Blizz have havndled forsaken horribly recently

[rain cave]

they were already hated by night elves

[sullen dawn]

I agree but it's a undying, cult like loyalty to her. The void magic has only twisted them further

[rain cave]

keep in mind naga society was then pretty isolated, there's nothing stopping them instilling continued loyalty

most naga don't see the surface ever

[sullen dawn]

Every word they say is about their loyalty to their queen

[rain cave]

yes, because she made it an imperial cult like society

and ruled pretty hard

[sullen dawn]

Again, I'm not saying they don't have enough that couldn't go the direction you're suggesting if they wanted to

[rain cave]

with their queen gone, who knows what's going on?

[sullen dawn]

I just think they should, and that it would ruin them as an enemy

[rain cave]

ehh not really, I think it would just add more layers to them

[tulip sun]

We have seen more to them already

[rain cave]

as in we can still have naga enemies

but those would be the azshara loyalists

[sullen dawn]

Their zealous unified nature was always a big part of what made them feel threatening

[tulip sun]

Adding depth doesn't ruin them. Their an entire people and culture- with many tribes and so on

[rain cave]

like the scarlets?

[sullen dawn]

I know I just don't want the split

[sullen dawn]

Yes imo

[rain cave]

we have humans outside scarlets

[sullen dawn]

Scarlets arent unified as a race though

It's different

They are by ideology

With naga those things are intertwined

But basically, id like more groups like scarlets from a "absolute shitbags" level

I feel blizz wants every race to ultimately become part of this big hodge podge collective that has the exact same culture and ideals

[tulip sun]

Scarlet's are an organization..not an entire race and culture

[sullen dawn]

Like orcs are just green humans now

[sullen dawn]

That's my point

I said they werent unified as race

[tulip sun]

Not from what I see

[sullen dawn]

But due to ideology

Huh

[tulip sun]

Why do you want an entire race and culture to be relegated to a homogenous pot.

When we have already seen various facets to them

[sullen dawn]

I don't, I feel like the "everyone is unified" is the homogenous pot

And I don't want them joining it and destroying what makes them threatening

[rain cave]

there's just not as much room right now to explore the intricacies of some of these races ig

[sullen dawn]

Which is a bloodcurdelling insane loyalty to their queen

[rain cave]

like the orc heritage is good

[sullen dawn]

That feels a like a choice though

[rain cave]

literally every kind of orc there, and shows their intricacies

[sullen dawn]

I enjoyed the orc heritage quests

[tulip sun]

This is a ridiculous argument. I don't want to ruin them, so let's ruin them by keeping them basic 2d enemy faction? Instead of exploring the different parts of Naga culture and tribes? Some bad, some more open?

Like?

[sullen dawn]

I think your arguments are ridiculous

[rain cave]

it doesn't replace the part you like Toby, if anything it lets it shine by showing the reason why some areloyal

[sullen dawn]

I don't mind if there are a few that break away

It should just be an extreme rarity

And that's not how I think blizz would do it

[tulip sun]

If you want a universe filled with homogenous factions then best go elsewhere

[rain cave]

I'm betting they're going to do a dracthyr with them in a way

[sullen dawn]

There would be a huge number of them joining "the pot". Nagas in explorers league etc.. it's always the way it goes lately

[sullen dawn]

This is my concern

[rain cave]

in midnight some naga join us, Azshara provides them with a way to restore their previous forms but retain some of the naga features

or be able to swap between the forms

[sullen dawn]

I don't think you understand what the word homogenous means

[rain cave]

so we can get playable naga with visagey forms that allows them to ride mounts and have leg mog

but you can turn into the naga full form if you want otherwise

[sullen dawn]

I'm against the homogenousisation of all races into one big single player centric culture

I want different types of cultures. Some complex, some simple, some fractured, some unbreakingly unified, some evil, some good, some grey

[tulip sun]

Except their...not. in fact they've gone to great lengths to explore all these cultures

[sullen dawn]

You want everything to be "champions of azeroth*

[tulip sun]

But that'll be my last piece

[sullen dawn]

If they have, they've failed

[rain cave]

personally I like it when there's a combination

a sense of unification VIA highlighting the different cultures working together

like in SoO where we have nelf launchers outside, gnomes inside

[sullen dawn]

I just want a diversity of different types of cultures! They all feel like different shades of the same colour recently

[rain cave]

I think it's a symptom of this xpac being exceedingly alliance centric lmao

[sullen dawn]

It's been like this since end of bfa/SLs imo

[rain cave]

but not in a way that shows alliance cultures

[sullen dawn]

They over-corrected from alasfrabi stuff

The dark shore warfront in BFA was so cool

A real clashing of completely incompatible cultures

[pulsar minnow]

While I agree I don’t think Naga are gonna be your candidates on that front

[sullen dawn]

I did say picking them specifically was debatable. They'd be one of my choices, but the larger point is we need some races to fill that hole

[pulsar minnow]

I mean we just had Djaradin unfortunately

Who were kinda ruined by not being nuanced

It works for demons for instance

But for a race who were created from the mutated sel(fish) pretentious a-holes whose servitude of fish mommy has only gotten them beat down repeatedly, I think it’s stupid to expect all of them to remain blindly loyal

[sullen dawn]

I agree it doesn't fit all races

[sullen dawn]

I don't think it's fair to say it's stupid

Especially when the voids been a big factor

[pulsar minnow]

Sorry wrong choice of words don’t mean to be rude

[sullen dawn]

It's all good

[pulsar minnow]

I still think naga work either way frankly

But I still think there’s potential for them to have nuance. But not like how Nightborne or Nerubians did

[sullen dawn]

Funnily, to me I don't think all demons should be unified with each other

[pulsar minnow]

But in selfish ends. Only a small tiny portion helping us while majority still remain loyal

[sullen dawn]

They're more a of "surival of the fittest/might makes right" thing

The main reason the legion existed was because of Sargeras

I think it'd have been impossible otherwise. Too much infighting

[sullen dawn]

Id be ok with this

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah so I think we agree there

[sullen dawn]

But I fear it'll be more of a "huge amounts align with us and are forgiven" and potentially even "naga allied race" situation

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah nah I think that’d be lame personally

I like our idea

That said I am the guy that thinks that Sargeras will have a weird sort of “redemption” arc

[sullen dawn]

As do I

[pulsar minnow]

My personal theory is that it turns into Sargeras vastly de powered and fully brainwashed slowly getting memories back through Illidan as the players realize the Titans fully intend on wiping us out

[sullen dawn]

I think when TLT comes there will be a titan civil war with Sargeras, Eonar, and Khaz'Goroth on our side

[pulsar minnow]

I think Illidan will be like “damn you right, go get em” and Sargeras dies in a blaze of glory protecting Azeroth from the titans while we’re given some time to get the great macguffin or whatever

[sullen dawn]

Maybe one more. Blizz like 4s, and would fit renown

[pulsar minnow]

I think we’ll have aggramar too

I think once he realizes Orcs are the descendants of the Gronn he made on Draenor he’ll fully swap sides realizing what he’s been doing

Aggramar unlike most seems to have a heart

[sullen dawn]

He wouldn't be my choice as I feel he hates sargy and kind of become his replacement for Aman'thul, but I could see it

[pulsar minnow]

Also I just really fucking like Aggramar lmao

[sullen dawn]

He is badass

[pulsar minnow]

He’s badass

Jinx lmao

[sullen dawn]

Hehe

Khaz I thought because he'd have a soft spot for his children

And he's also badass

[pulsar minnow]

Norgannon, Aggramar, and Golganeth definitely give me antagonist vibes

[sullen dawn]

Eonar because of course

Yeh

[pulsar minnow]

Golganeth is literally just fodder

[sullen dawn]

Hell be first raid boss lol

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t think anyone actually cares about that guy unfortunately

[sullen dawn]

Yeh he's the step child

Nargannon I can see being the second last to fall before Aman'Thul

Him and Aman Thul are cozy AF imo

*nor

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah agreed

[sullen dawn]

I'm quite excited to see potential Eonar and Sargeras conversations together

They have the potential to be very intriguing if written well

[pulsar minnow]

Oh they’re gonna effing hate each other

[sullen dawn]

In ways

[pulsar minnow]

But it’s gonna be fun to watch

[sullen dawn]

But ultimately I think their hatred of Aman Thul will trump that

Long philosophical "stay a while and listen" chars between them please

[tropic trail]

What? Where?

[pulsar minnow]

My personal feeling is they might bond over shared drama. I’ve had this theory for a while now that Eonar and Sargeras are Titan converted world-souls

[pulsar minnow]

We’re speculating for last Titan

[sullen dawn]

Just hoping! Nothing confirmed

[tropic trail]

Ah I see. 😂

[sullen dawn]

I think they will do a lot of bonding over the course of the expansion

[sullen dawn]

We're guessing TLT will be a titan civil war

[pulsar minnow]

I think Eonar may have been a life world soul converted to Order by Aman’thul, without ever being told. Once she finds out the truth she’ll freak the hell out.

I also think Sargeras is very much a Disorder World Soul, which would explain why his appearance shifted so drastically when he went rogue

[sullen dawn]

Meanwhile Khaz just chilling with the titan forged

[pulsar minnow]

Or at least a cooler reason than just “Fel corruption” in my opinion

[pulsar minnow]

I see Khaz being loyal right up until the end when he feels like he’s being used

[sullen dawn]

I think he purposely consumed fel

[sullen dawn]

Depends if they wanna do the 4 titans = 4 renown factions or not

I also wonder if Amitus will show

[pulsar minnow]

I really hope so

[pulsar minnow]

I love her design so much

[sullen dawn]

I could see her being our forth. Alternatively she could be pro Aman Thul and be how they've co-erced the light so much

[pulsar minnow]

That said I also think it’s funny as hell her being the peace keeper and leaving the moment things get unpeaceful

[sullen dawn]

I think she's keeping the peace with the light tbh

Order and light made a deal and she's the envoy

[pulsar minnow]

I think Amitus could also be cool slotted into my crackpot theory. Her leaving after learning she was initially a light world soul and out searching the cosmos for the place she was denied

[sullen dawn]

Shit man I'm hyped for TLT

[pulsar minnow]

Same

[sullen dawn]

Just slam in some tinkers and it could be the goat expansion

[pulsar minnow]

As much as the war within is awesome, I am so incredibly excited to see what they do to the old world

[sullen dawn]

TWW is awesome thematically and gameplay wise

New "wow factor" is a bit missing with features but delves are very good. But mostly I'm impatient about the story

This is basically act 1

Hero talents I find very disappointing

[pulsar minnow]

All I want to see in the Last Titan is the final showdown at Ulduar or something. All the armies of Azeroth, the titans on the other end. Alliance, Horde, Dragons, everyone together

[deep pawn]

I have Golganneth being the Titan Iridikron manages to snipe when they first arrive

[sullen dawn]

Lmao

[pulsar minnow]

Then I want to see Anduin on dragon back with Wrathion leading the charge alongside Thrall

[sullen dawn]

Everyone knows gol ain't shit

He's so disposable

[deep pawn]

I think Iridikron and his shifting fortress is our first tlt raid

[pulsar minnow]

Ngl I think it could also work as an expansion feature

An ever changing labyrinth beneath Northerend linking into Titan facilities

[sullen dawn]

Dragons defo playing a big role. Tyr too

[pulsar minnow]

I wonder which keepers will side with titans

Odyn obviously

But we know that

[sullen dawn]

Torghast 2.0 id be up for it

With what they've learnt from delves and lots of procedural randomization

What was the term they introduced us to recently?

With the latest memories quest

[deep pawn]

Delves have 0 procedural.

[sullen dawn]

Or one before maybe it was

[sullen dawn]

I know, I meant combining what they'd learnt from delves with procedural

[deep pawn]

Personally I feel they oversold how much delves would change

I enjoy them but 3 stories each is silly

[sullen dawn]

The Manifold!

That's the term I was looking for

[upper pasture]

You gotta hope that with each season each delve is gonna get one or two new stories

[sullen dawn]

Yeh, plus 2-3 new delves

[deep pawn]

New zone will have Delves for sure. I am curious how Rexxar fits in

[upper pasture]

Do we know it’s Rexxar or is that just theory?

[deep pawn]

He was datamined in beta as a delve companion.

It's not confirmed but likely

[sullen dawn]

Hell be in one of the seasons at least

Id like to see Gazlowe next

Then Rexxar in s3

Horde needs a bit of love

[sullen dawn]

Yeh here's the strings

[deep pawn]

Though that looks like he was gonna be part of the awakening the machine endless version

[warm topaz]

what a bad event awakening the machine now that you are mention it

the most boring thing i've done

[deep pawn]

It was largely scrapped before launch

[warm topaz]

is not fun, is not challenging

[deep pawn]

But they needed something for the machine speakers beyond wax

[warm topaz]

i know yeah, they iterate A LOT with it during alpha beta cycle

at first the event was infinite

then it was like torgasht

then it was this then that

and we end up with this, not good

they probably needed more time to think about it

[deep pawn]

Can't, gotta hit that timeline

[warm topaz]

yeah that's the thing

[deep pawn]

It'd take a Shadowlands drop in subs and to get Blizzard to slow down right now.

[austere gazelle]

yeah Its possible that Eonar was a life " world soul " infused with order, same with the " Elemental " titans representing elements.

Norgannon is a " true " titan in a sense that his mastery is Arcane, same as Aman'thul

[sullen dawn]

Assuming world souls even have "types"

[pulsar minnow]

well, its very likely Argus had a type

He went to the Shadowlands upon death

[rain cave]

could have been forced upon him though

dreadlords could have steered him to becoming deathlike, as part of the jailer plan

[pulsar minnow]

we dont even know if they're capable of that

[rain cave]

his armour is literally pinned on to him with stakes through which he bleeds

they don't have to be just have to convince sargeras (which they're very good at) to do it for them lmao

[pulsar minnow]

Sargeras was imprisoned when Argus died

[rain cave]

I know but before that

[pulsar minnow]

and the Nathrezim weren't there at the seat of the Pantheon

[rain cave]

before that

like Argus could have been made into a "death" titan worldsoul through the efforts of the dreadlords

instead of his natural state being how we fought him

[pulsar minnow]

fair enough

[sullen dawn]

Yeh that's just as likely/plausible as them having inherit types

[austere gazelle]

they may have type, but those type can be corrupted, switched, or whatever if a force influence them long enough.

Look at the dragon, they are elementals by nature and have all been turned into some kind of titan power wielding creature.

The same can be done with the World Souls

That's why I believe K'aresh world soul became Dimensius
Argus , we don't know, he may have been a decay world soul or a death world soul to begin with but the Dreadlord probably infused him with necromantic magic so his soul would be attuned to the shadowlands instead of the realm of order

[sullen dawn]

It's possible, but it's just speculation

I still locus walker is dimensius :p

But that's just a crackpot theory of mine

[sleek solar]

K arash’ worldsoul couldnt have been Dimensius

[austere gazelle]

as usual yes, since we don't know ^^

[sleek solar]

Dimensius invaded Karesh

Why would he invade himself

[austere gazelle]

Why would the void invades Azeroth if Xal wins the world soul ?

[sleek solar]

Because Xal is not playing for the void lords, but her own agenda lol

[austere gazelle]

Maybe this " invasion " was just a consequence of the world soul of Karesh ' awakening ' into a new void lord / becoming a voild lord, it'd trigger void portal from everywhere and a connexion to the void

[sleek solar]

Lmao

Dimensius opened a lot of void portals there, and bathed the planet in darkness and void

That theory does not make sense

Youre overthinking a lot

[austere gazelle]

that's a consequence of his coming yes. But Even the Etheraels doesnt know how Dimensius found K'aresh or came on their planet.

[sleek solar]

Yes exactly

So if he is their worldsoul, how come they dont know?

[austere gazelle]

because they don't even know what was the radiant song ?

It's most likely they weren't even aware there was a world soul on their planet

[sleek solar]

Thats a different thing than an enourmous being being born on your planet, from your planet

[austere gazelle]

Mmm I disagree, a world soul mutating into a void lord might exactly create a tons of void portal around the world because it become a beacon that link it to the void plane.

Moreover, it's all speculation because as far as we know, what we know about dimensius comes from old lore that was apparently updated from TWW. this radiant song mentions changes a lot of things

We might fall into point of vue narrative again

[sleek solar]

Agreed

[austere gazelle]

And I read all the source about dimensius on the wiki, the one describing dimensius invasion of K'aresh come from a ask a CDev answer, so its not even something that is canon since we know dev answers are not set in stones

[sleek solar]

It has more ground than your theory lol

[austere gazelle]

Well, certainly, but there is something to ponder... if titans are born from world souls by corrupting them with order, if eternal one ( IE argus, whose soul was sent to shadowlands ) can be born from world souls then why couldnt a void Lord ?
The dreadlord said that the void wanted to ~~consume ~~ corrupt a world soul to turn it into a " dark titan " , but since we now know that world soul does not equal titan but equal whomever forces influence it... then dark titan might = void lord

[pulsar minnow]

Ok yeah you’re definitely overthinking this

If your theory is true then that would mean Dimensius ate himself lmao

Dimensius consumed the world soul of K’aresh. They’re two separate entities

[pulsar minnow]

Also Sargeras is the one that wanted to make Azeroth a dark titan. I very much doubt he wanted to make a void lord considering the void is what made him start the burning crusade

[rain cave]

The legion hated the void

It's their reason for existing

We aren't even sure what a void lord is

It's been given to multiple things over the years

But it usually means those dark elemental looking guys

Like the ones warlocks can summon but bigger

[pulsar minnow]

I mean we have a general idea from chronicle. They’re super powerful void beings like the titans who are jealous that they’re trapped in their plane of existence but want to cross over into reality. To do so they have to consume tons of matter

[rain cave]

And those have been shown to be able to spawn from void naaru

[pulsar minnow]

That’s a void god not a void lord

Why the names aren’t swapped I have no idea

[sleek solar]

The entire theory is so full of holes

[rain cave]

It would be hilarious if void Lords aren't meant to be that powerful, dimensius just got lucky and ate a world soul making him a huge threat

But I doubt it

[pulsar minnow]

Well they’re said to be jealous of the titans’ power, so they might be slightly weaker

[rain cave]

They'll probably redefine the void terms in midnight

[rain cave]

This could just mean the titans ability to manifest in reality

[sleek solar]

Inb4 they make it so we kill Dimensius, and the rest will become a council of void lords

[rain cave]

We kill him and he splits into dime and sius

What's interesting if azshara pursues the void throne is that she's an arcane mage

[pulsar minnow]

Then we go on a peaceful venture to the Voidlands and find out the evil eldritch horrors aren’t so mean after all

[rain cave]

With void power sure

[pulsar minnow]

And N’zoth started a bakery

[rain cave]

But she an arcane megastructure

Having someone with strong arcane(order) magic at the top is interesting

[sleek solar]

Knowing blizzard it will be a strong Arcane council

[austere gazelle]

Well you misinterpreted what I said though, or I expressed it poorly.

@pulsar minnow Dark Titan was not Sargeras original Idea. The whole idea of the void lord corrupting a world soul was to create a dark titan that would consume creation. The Void lord couldn't corrupt full grown titan and that's why they aimed at world soul. It is written, it is known.

Quote :

From them, Sargeras learned that the void lords had sent the Old Gods out into the cosmos to infect any worlds that housed titan world-souls, and if they succeeded, the world-soul would be twisted into an unspeakably dark creature that not even the Pantheon could stand against: a Dark Titan.

Sargeras' dark titan was never stated in chronicles volume 1

1. In chronicle, sargeras goal was to hunt corrupted planet and prevent a world soul from being corrupted ( by cleaving it in half )
2. "Consume" was a poorly chosen world. Corrupting was the most adequate one.

And I repeat myself : now that we know that world souls does not equal titans but can give birth to whatever depending on the force that influence it

• What does a world soul corrupted by void could give?
  1- if one corrupted by order becomes a titan
  2- if one corrupted by death gives the soul of an eternal one bound to the Shadowlands
  3- One corrupted by void gives... ? You get my point. Hopefully.

@sleek solar Chronicles even defend my theory because they don't speak of consuming a world soul, but twisting it into another being. Where is the world soul of K'aresh, corrupted by void, then ? Where is this dark titan ?

[austere gazelle]

It's even possible that Dimensius was the harbinger , like Xal, on Karesh, and took posession of the world soul to awaken into a Void Lord. Source says that he spent a few years on Karesh. Like Xal, he staged a carefully full scale invasion after that, became more and more stronger, and then, Karesh went boom.

[pulsar minnow]

Ok you’re still failing to understand the story told in-game. Sargeras wanted to turn the pantheon into Dark Titans. He wanted to turn Azeroth into a Dark Titan as well. Sargeras himself was THE Dark Titan

Also? As for where the hell K’aresh is? DIMENSIUS ATE HIM

[austere gazelle]

I'm not failing to understand I'm quoting Chronicles.

[sleek solar]

They dont defend your theory, its simply one of the few points that is not a hole

[austere gazelle]

Yes, sargeras was called The Dark Titan, but the void lords also wanted to corrupt a world soul to make it a " dark titan" too. Not my fault if blizzard gave the same title to different goal / being. but that's not me failing to understand stuff. Its written clear as day on the passage I quoted.

[rain cave]

Xalatath reeks of pure void naaru to me.

[sleek solar]

Not a “dark” titan, but a Void titan

[rain cave]

It's what puts her at odds with the old gods, it explains why if she's a harbinger, they put her in a dagger instead of letting dimensius be called to dinner

[austere gazelle]

we're discussing semantic here. It's written " Dark Titan " on chronicle, I'm just quoting Chronicles. Its even written as it is on the wiki.

[rain cave]

She calls other naaru brothers and sisters

The runic carvings are very naaru

"Voidsong" is her staffs name. Like the song of a void naaru

[pulsar minnow]

Then what is a Dark Titan then

It’s not a void lord

It’s not a titan like Sargeras

[rain cave]

Sargeras, the dark titan is his title

[austere gazelle]

That's the term they used in Chronicles, so ask blizzard.

[pulsar minnow]

I know

Fully aware

[rain cave]

So that should answer it

[pulsar minnow]

It’s rhetorical

The point is that Dark Titans doesn’t = void lord

And again- I don’t know why this is an argument. Dimensius and K’aresh are very clearly to be defined as two separate entities

[austere gazelle]

When they wrote chronicles any world souls was a Titan, so a corrupted world soul would give a Dark Titan I guess, but now that the narrative changed, it can give birth to whatever not a titan

[rain cave]

I think a dark titan is just a fel corrupted titan

Aggrammar became one briefly

[austere gazelle]

yeah it's blizzard mess up on titles, because they said that a world soul corrupted by old gods would become a dark titan too.

[rain cave]

Technically the titan watchers did

The watchers only know the world soul as a titan

So anything that would corrupt that. Dark titan ig

They don't have the knowledge/ words

[austere gazelle]

exactly

[rain cave]

Doesn't mean it is actually a titan or dark

[pulsar minnow]

Pretty sure a dark Titan is just a corrupted world soul

From any force

Like Argus or Sargeras

[rain cave]

From the watchers pov yes

[rain cave]

These are different since they were already titans so they are just "dark titans"

But a corrupted world soul might not even become a titan

The watchers writing chronicle just don't know that

[austere gazelle]

As I stated, its not mutually exclusive. A being - like Xal - may very well infused herself and take control of a world soul to become said world soul and awaken into a more powerful entity. So dimensius being a creature - dark naaru - whatever, invading K'aresh to fuse and claim the world soul would work exactly like what's happening with Xal on Azeroth - if that's their goal.

Radiant song - Harbinger - Void invasion. Sound similar from what we know from K'aresh

Radiant song - Harbinger - Midnight

[pulsar minnow]

Locus Walker literally told us Dimensius ate the world soul

[austere gazelle]

And? If ating the world soul give you its power and turn you into another entity more powerful ... ? Xal wants to make Azeroth' s world soul " hers "

And I dont think she meant as a pet

[pulsar minnow]

Speculate as you want but Dimensius was already a void lord when he assaulted K’aresh

Pandemonius was serving him during the assault

[rain cave]

Would be crazy if xal is actually only pretending to help dimensius but her actual goal is to lure his forces for help. Eat the worldsoul herself, then overpower him to eat him as well

Very on brand

[sullen dawn]

Likely Locus Walker messed up somehow

[sullen dawn]

Could be a kink

I always find it funny that we killed Archaedas, especially as a 5 man group

They never bring it up

[pulsar minnow]

They did in exploring Azeroth

According to Matthias Shaw he might not be dead but just disabled

[austere gazelle]

I can speculate as I want though, Chronicles do not call Dimensius a Void lord when he invaded Karesh 😉

So Dimensius may very well be the Harbinger of the Void on Karesh, and fused with the world soul to become a void Lord

[uncut vault]

Well, remember that Naaru aren't actually Light beings, from what we know

They're coalescence of the remaining cosmic energy post-Big Bang

which, given Beledar, probably means something pretty significant for the upcoming story

[pulsar minnow]

You’re welcome to believe whatever you want. Just know that lore exists outside of the semantics you handpick in chronicle

[pulsar minnow]

If this ends up being the big reveal for Beledar I think that’d be pretty awesome- being the source of the naaru or whatever

[sleek solar]

I dont think so since the Naaru are not from Azeroth

[pulsar minnow]

They were formed in the Warcraft big bang. They’re from space but Beledar could be related. Seeing as how Azeroth is heavily hinted at either being a First One or some other new kinda being representing the seventh cosmic force, it’s not out of the question

[rose escarp]

Fully agreed - but I’d be really surprised if there wasn’t some kind of parallel to the shifting nature of them, somehow.

[uncut vault]

I think less source and more of the same vein

if worldsouls are also massive coalescences of the cosmic forces, Naaru would basically just be bite-sized versions of them

I wouldn't be surprised if the angle they go for is that their smaller scale means that they're more attuned to specific forces like the light and the void, hence their shifting issues

which makes Midnight all the more relevant to the Beledar crystals, given it's focusing on a region with a font of holy power housing a naaru inside of it

Hell, if we loop back to our conversation from the other day, it could even explain the whole "Elune made the naaru" theory from Legion lol

[sleek solar]

Hmmm yes very true

[thin warren]

No news yet about .7?

[rose escarp]

Nope, but hopefully soon 🤞🏼

[thin warren]

🤞

[silent urchin]

Dalaran survivor seems potentially linked to secrets, btw, she now actually talks to you (sort of)

so maybe no main story at all this patch

[rain cave]

did they push the weird tuskarr secret quests because people were complaining about not enough bronze tokens?

since it's weird they just, appeard randomy day before reset

[silent urchin]

Yes. They randomly pushed it at exactly the time they said they would push it in a news post a couple weeks ago

they do the secrets as a global release, not connected to reset

[upper pasture]

Yeah the last secrets was also a global release because what would be the fun for EU if they were a day behind?

[rain cave]

I've not heard anything about this before now I just walked into the anniversary campus and noticed it 💀

surprised I've managed to go through a few weeks without hearing any youtubers or wowhead posts mentioning a new secrets of azeroth thing

though it's not as in depth as the last one, this one was just a few quests that literally told you where to go

free bronze at least

[upper pasture]

Aren’t we getting more as the weeks go on?

[silent urchin]

why would youtubers talk about what's yet to come when they can get ragebait out of complaining about what's out now

[rain cave]

I mean most of bellulars stuff is about future content

[upper pasture]

I bet a few of them talked about it but what more can they talk about when they have zero information on what it is other than another secrets event

[warm topaz]

there's more than that

not too big, but there's more

[silent urchin]

We're likely getting more clues on a daily-ish basis to track down crates, there's more unlocking next monday, and there's achievements hinting at a bunch of extra stuff to find

[deep pawn]

woo, they buffed token rates

it was stupid that you needed a bug to get a set week 1

[ember blaze]

yeah i dont get the whole timegating thing for a limited, "fun" event???

and they acknowledged just letting u get them in activities you WANTED to do\

how was this not the first thing they go with

so bad and weird

[silent urchin]

I think the token rates were probably fine once you hit the 100 achievement

this feels kinda overkill, but it's whatever I guess, it's all cosmetic

gonna get SO MANY timewalking badges from the conversion

[ember blaze]

exactly it's all cosmetic and for a short event,

[upper pasture]

about 3 months isn't a short event really

[deep pawn]

just like Plunderstorm, no one wants to play 10s of hours for cosmetics

[rain cave]

I think the difference between this and pluinderstorm/remix though

is that those were deeper and had a focus on a specific thing

whereas the stuff we're doing for this is varied and shallow

I'm not a PvPer but I have to go dip my toes into korraks

likewise PvPers are having to queue into BRD

and timewalking dungeons

[pulsar minnow]

Someone in the wowhead comments made a good point

The article says “11.0” world bosses which is kind of an odd distinction

Rather than just like “Khaz Algar” world bosses.

Question being could the event still be going on when we get the next patch. Would be unexpected considering the event is the whole of the 11.0.5 patch

[upper pasture]

prolly to make the distinction between the 11.0 bosses and the bosses added with the event

[sleek solar]

Soooo apparently if you "Reveal your inner child" as a Void Elf, this is what you turn into

[tropic trail]

Yea, basically this I got on my void elf once. Haha 😂

[sleek solar]

They couldve just used Belf child models but noooo xD

[rain cave]

Going through the family photo album must be interesting lmao

[proper palm]

When you turn to your inner child on a stone dward, u turn into normal little gnomish

[sleek solar]

Wutttttt

[sullen dawn]

There was an english sentence hiding in there somewhere

[ivory meadow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbXcFW7g-o0

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/24152008/the-war-within-1107-content-update-on-the-ptr-31-october

plunderstorm returning

[dense plover]

Well dang - we getting fed already

Fucking stomping on FF14

I love the game but the lack of content for regular players fucking sucks

[uncut vault]

Well, after the quality of 11.0.5's release, lets wait for the patch to launch first :P

[dense plover]

I mean - bugs are bugs, but the actual content is nice to see

Im just saying that I like the steady flow of content. The ring worries me a bit since that’s the borrowed power stuff kinda, but they’ve done that before with other expacs so it’s not the end of the world

I like that the ring model is visual. I hope that’s something they’re testing to see if it’s feasible as a permanent thing moving forward. It would be cool to have jewelry also show up on our characters

[silent urchin]

It's similar to the forbidden isle ring

it's a boost for people in the end of the season

but not expected to have a huge impact on next season

[dense plover]

Seems like a mix of that and mechagon since they said it had abilities and not just stats

But yeah, it’ll probably be outmoded by S2 and I assume some of the abilities or part of its strength is tied to actually being on the isle

Im a bit disappointed we won’t be able to fly to the isle

I hope the zone has flight - it seems small so idk if it will

[silent urchin]

forbidden reach one had a bunch of proc stuff

[upper pasture]

Yeah the FR ring had all those wild proc effects that became pretty useless in the next patch

[dense plover]

Ah fair enough

[zealous sedge]

I like that we are getting a kirin tor story line and a prologue to 11.1

[novel zodiac]

Did you guys see this?

[pulsar minnow]

holy shit Arathi customization for humans lfg

[novel zodiac]

is that the current undermine we have ingame or something new?

[pulsar minnow]

That’s kezan

And yeah ppl were talking about it a bit earlier it’s probably a hint

Next patch we already know we’re getting some kind of Goblin Raid

[sullen dawn]

undermine is under kezan

[rain cave]

Oh wow the crystal is SO similar to the season of discovery one

But a light version

Also the azerite isn't blue anymore on that island which is very interesting

And the disappearing expedition sounds very similar to what happened to the arathi

Not to mention the storms which were also part of the arathis story

Could it have been that the flash is light the arathi saw WAS this crystal? And they were on the outer reaches of its effect? Perhaps the kultirans got teleported inside beledar

We saw it being guarded by what looks vrykul with odyns aesthetic as well

So much to unpack there

[silent urchin]

No, the flash here is far more recent

like within the past couple months, after we landed on khaz algar

[sleek solar]

We will???

[silent urchin]

it's what the various NPCs in dornogal are on about

yes, mentioned in the blog post

[sleek solar]

Niceeeee

[rain cave]

Wdym?

I mean the flash that teleported the arathi

[silent urchin]

Oh, thought you meant the recent bit about this crystal sending out a pulse

[rain cave]

Mb

[silent urchin]

I doubt this is relevant to the arathi 15 years ago

[rain cave]

I get the feeling this is what teleported them

The crystal could even be beledars core tbf

Like xeras core

But we'll see

The naga and odyns vrykul are there

[deep pawn]

The first turbulent timeways, I can't remember if that ended before the patch or if it went into the new patch a bit.

I think it may have gone into preseason week, I just have memories of it misleading us on patch date last time.

[upper pasture]

I believe it ran into the next patch

[warm topaz]

if 10.1 is goblin 10.2 is ethereal then?

[deep pawn]

also, boo at no half elf ears

[pulsar minnow]

Probably

[deep pawn]

they were datamined for blood elf models too

[warm topaz]

sorry, 11* not 10 hahahahahaah

[uncut vault]

the file names were, but they never got models

Great Kyron had their ears just missing for half of beta before just getting changed to the short belf ears

[pulsar minnow]

They probably figured short blood elf ears basically are half elf ears anyways

Maybe they’ll add normal eyes to belves and velves

[uncut vault]

high elf ears are the same as blood elf ears :P

[pulsar minnow]

Sorry misspoke

Half elf ears

Is what I meant to say

[uncut vault]

If they do add that, I hope to god they make the normal eyes exclusive with the half elf ears lol

because normal eyed blood elves are terrifying lmao

[pulsar minnow]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/1/14/Shattered_Legacies_-_Living_Sylvanas.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/985?cb=20220219184554

[uncut vault]

there was a brief bug back during 10.0.5 PTR that randomized eye textures between races that gave us a horrifying preview

[pulsar minnow]

I mean Sylvanas didn’t look thaaat bad

[uncut vault]

She really, really did look bad lol

that model is awful, and I don't usually speak that poorly of art design

[pulsar minnow]

I mean that looked really good despite being inaccurate lmao

Just her hair sucked

And yes her eyes are supposed to glow

[uncut vault]

and even then, the in game models would look even more uncanny, because Sylvanas has a specific face design that lets them do smaller irises

[uncut vault]

actual belf eye textures look like this, theyre just covered by the glow

bonus cursed:

[sullen dawn]

Undermine and K'aresh was my original guess

[pulsar minnow]

I mean the belf male is like 99% there just gotta shrink the size of the Irises and pupils a bit

[deep pawn]

noodle hair

[pulsar minnow]

I mean that really doesn’t look that bad

[uncut vault]

Like I said, I'll be fine with it if they make it restrictive to half-elf ears, ala the human face options with their skin tones

I just dont want to run around the game with all the blood elves looking as human as possible lol

WoW elves are unique in how not human they look compared to other franchises

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Marlamin/status/1851687099260371092

Marlamin (@Marlamin) on X

"During the fourth war, it was used by the Kul Tirans to mine Azerite, and then everyone mysteriously disappeared."
Funnily enough, comparing the 8.2 version of the map with a shot from the preview, that story is spot on! It's basically just an aged up of the same map. Neat!

Twitter · Oct 30, 2024, 6:06 PM

this is really cool

[pulsar minnow]

Oh wait siren isle was scrapped BFA content?

[silent urchin]

It seems like an unfinished island expedition and they've modified it to represent it being abandoned for a few years after the azerite dried up, added a bunch, and now it's actually finished content

[pulsar minnow]

That is actually so damn smart

Actually tying in the story of this expansion to previous ones and their locations 🤯

WoW team has been killing it lately (besides the very questionable store mount releases)

[dense plover]

I assume they also made it bigger

Since most islands were pretty small

[pulsar minnow]

Super random but something I think is worth considering with this new version of Sirens isle is that the blueish effect is gone on the azerite crystals

[clear apex]

Seems like it'll be about the size of broken shore

[uncut vault]

it's interesting because they've been making a distinct difference between "Azeroth" energy vs "Order" energy since Dragonflight

[pulsar minnow]

Reeealllly making me think Azeroth’s color is gold and the blue is the arcane corrupting her

[uncut vault]

Order is pure gold and celestial

but when Azerite pops up, it's got that blue

[pulsar minnow]

Or that too

[uncut vault]

and we see the same now in the Earthen starter zone, they're scanned by celestial gold order magic and deemed corrupted

but then you channel Azeroth's song, and the blue-gold Azerite energy pops out to free us from the titan cage

and the cage looks exactly like the one on the TLT logo there

[clear apex]

In the cinematic they show the earthen with gold and blue crystal but is not an option in the cc

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah. You can even see the world soul beneath the cage

Maybe it’s meant to be kind of like the war within logo like a warning of what will happen should we fail

[uncut vault]

Interestingly too, she's joining us in 11.0.7

we see her alongside Skaggit and the Arathi in the trailer

[clear apex]

Isn't she involved with the earthen start quest
Dawn

[uncut vault]

Yeah she is

they just have her use blue crystals

[clear apex]

Ok, yeah why does she have blue stuff but we can't

[uncut vault]

Which further goes for the idea that the blue energy is more the "Azeroth" part of it

[clear apex]

All awaken earthen would have the same effect

[uncut vault]

and the gold is the order magic being pumped into her

[clear apex]

I'm curious about beledar was escaping or forcing its way into azeroth

[pulsar minnow]

They really need to get a color chart of which magic color is which 😭. Arcane is purple, but also gold? Death is blue and white but also teal and green? Fel is green but also red??

[pulsar minnow]

It’s of Azeroth. It’s made of her essence

[uncut vault]

Judging by the order in which Archaedas talks about it in the archive quests, it seems like the formation of the crystals happened after the Acclimation to heal the planet

so they probably formed as a result of the Titans starting to pump order magic into her to turn her into a Titan

[uncut vault]

The way I justify it is that there's a difference beteween the 'cosmic' version of each magic versus the natural version in the physical plane

[clear apex]

I hope she comes into existence as a prime and just takes over

[uncut vault]

so magic derived from the plane of order has that celestial gold, but the natural magic of the universe is arcane

void comes directly from the Void itself, but reality has shadow magic

Order vs Arcane is the easiest to explain, since in the actual plane of Order, their magic would be nice and happy, and drawing on that magic directly would be the same.

But when it exists in conflict with the rest of the cosmic forces in reality itself, it becomes unstable because it's not compatible, so it manifests as the arcane magic we know

hence all the 'wild arcana' we see in places like the Dragon Isles

which, coincidentally, also had a tendency to crystallize

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but still it’s really confusing

I would like them to clear it up one day

Especially if life and fel are both green but just different shades

Hoping cosmic fel is like blood red similar to antorus

And if cosmic order is yellow, then what about light

https://tenor.com/view/annoyed-cat-gif-17984166845494923336

[rose escarp]

Also… Chromie’s Codex has us going to… where the next Season of Discovery is happening. Hmm. Makes you wonder why timeline interference was made, right?

[uncut vault]

That’s basically how I’ve been interpreting Antorus this whole time anyways

That pure Disorder magic is the red we see in all of those corrupted Titan facilities

(Which, yknow, also still have a lot of questions that need answers lmao)

[austere gazelle]

Arcane or void

[deep pawn]

fel also turns people red when pure enough

[granite flame]

Gul'dan phase 3 gets red fire as he gets more fel-infused, too

[sleek solar]

Draenei too

[rain cave]

I think it's more like fel + arcane is red

Or order

Because we only see red fel in that circumstance usually

Guldan being powered by eye of amanthul, an arcane relic

Sargeras is a titan

The eredar were a very arcane aligned race

[sleek solar]

What about the fel orcs then?

[rain cave]

Good point I suppose

Though the twisting nether is also full of arcane

Not just fel

And the only difference between normal green orcs and red orcs is their prolonged exposure to the twisting nether

[pulsar minnow]

Well grommash became red in WC3 when he drank from a fountain corrupted with mannoroths blood

So it doesn’t exactly have to be in the twisting nether

First drink -> Green.
Second Drink -> Red

So it’s probably just the more fel the more red.

[sleek solar]

Yeah I think so too

[clear apex]

🤔 yeah but manari and such have red skin but it cracks to reveal green energy.
Just like demon hunters have green eyes

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah

Grommash had green veins

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/7/77/Grommash_Mercenaries_3.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1024?cb=20211012211530

And demon hunters don’t exactly drink demon blood they seal a demons soul in their body, eat its heart blah blah blah it’s much more complicated for those guys

[clear apex]

I associate fel with green since warlocks use it and it's green

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah.

Fel is green

The point we’re all talking about is why these magics represent themselves as different colors sometimes

With the idea being cosmic Chaos is red as we saw in Antorus and on Sargeras. Whereas weaker and more normal chaotic magic is green

[proper palm]

How i can sleep now

[sullen dawn]

Honestly I think we put more thought into colours of magics/forces than blizz do

At least historically I think they did what looked cool, and now they're trying to retroactively add some logic and consistency

The "universe forces are more mixed than discrete" thing from hallow fall gives them more room to kind of force it to make sense

[deep pawn]

2 weeks until the roadmap, I can't wait to see where they place alpha

[sullen dawn]

Three options imo. 1) it's early Q3, with expansion launching q1 or early q2 2026

2. it's not the roadmap because they don't wanna lock themselves in, but it's still planned to happen around then

3. its not on the roadmap because the reduced expansion length isn't feasible and we're sticking to 2 year cadence and so alpha is 2026 with late Q3/early Q4 release

[deep pawn]

mmo-c forums complaining about them using the unused island expedition as "TWW is filler, bleh"

[sullen dawn]

Would they rather no zone for 11.0.7?

[deep pawn]

I'm admit I have some trepidation over another small zone with a ring that's only relevant for 4 weeks

If anything I'm glad it's old assets

[sullen dawn]

Yeh it's mostly for people who are perma subbed and burnt out on 11.0

Not intended to be a big deal

[deep pawn]

I hope the timeways mount isn't as bad to get this time

[silent urchin]

it's a .7 patch, previous .7 patches were tiny

10.2.7 was mostly just remix, 10.1.7 had dreamsurges and not a lot else, 10.0.7 was the forbidden reach

[upper pasture]

the first timeways mount wasn't bad to get? it was just do one timewalking dungeon each week for 5 weeks

[silent urchin]

iirc you could skip a week

[upper pasture]

there was a buff on your character that counted down and you had to keep it up between the weeks iirc but it was very generous and doing another TW dungeon refreshed it.

but i'd hardly say doing a 10-15 min thing once a week for 5 weeks was hard.

timegated, sure. hard? hardly.

[rain cave]

"Omg guys amirdrassil filler patch the emerald dream was a scrapped zone in vanilla"

[rain cave]

Tbf I think every magic can be every colour, they just use colour schemes to communicate factions or things within them

Like how a pale almost blueish light can be wine elune

[sullen dawn]

Yeh

[rain cave]

Arcane can be both purple, blue, and even gold/sandy for time stuff

Void can be purple, black blue

Even orange for bits

[sullen dawn]

But the fans seem to be asking for a colour and magic category library. I think they'll retroactively make things fit

[rain cave]

SL showed different anima

[deep pawn]

Annoying then

[upper pasture]

I’d say in the list of things “doing content” isn’t as annoying as say a sub 1% drop or a purchasable mount for say 5000 tokens (if you don’t have tokens piled up)

Would I like the mount be buyable? Sure but not everyone has 100k timewalking tokens hanging out

[rain cave]

Find a toon to level and just hop on em casually

If you have any heritage armour to fill out

[deep pawn]

I don't know, I think think the whole log on for 4-5 weeks straight and do time walking is just the worst way to do it.

Especially since it encouraged you to not play that character so you didn't have to redo the buff.

It was just very poorly designed.

Timewalking is probably my least engaged with content as it is because it's so unrewarding.

[upper pasture]

Iirc the buff was like 24 hours of played time or even more? It was something that was a long ass buff that only ticked down while you were on that character. I’d bet anyone who was playing one character probably didn’t have to refresh their buff unless they were intentionally trying to afk/idle it off

[dense plover]

The ring is named poorly

A circlet goes on your head not on your finger

[ember blaze]

what support spec are we digging up this time? 😈

[upper pasture]

Eh, circlet also describes a circular jewelry too

[sullen dawn]

If it's anything it should be shaman tank

Fits the expansion theme well

And probably most requested additional spec

When was augmentation again? .1.5?

[upper pasture]

It came with 10.1.5 yeah

I’d love for shaman tanks to become a thing and it was neatly hidden in plain sight with follower dungeons

[rain cave]

support pal also kinda fits with arathi

[sullen dawn]

Id rather ranged dps ret but support works too

[sullen dawn]

It definitely feels that way

[upper pasture]

Plus SoD coulda be the testing grounds for it too

[rain cave]

that's what I mean

like sitting back with tomes, casting holy bolts of fire and alighting your friends weapons with holy fire for support

using seals

[upper pasture]

If anything I think they’d wait until we get more involved with the arathi before adding another paladin spec

[rain cave]

true

[sullen dawn]

Ah I meant Inquisitor, not really buffing people at all

But I'd be happy with either

For me an Inquisitor would (gameplay wise) be a mix between BM Hunter and affliction warlock

A mix of instant cast debuffs and spikes, and some channel based attacks. All ranged, good mobility and cc

But alternatively I could see a ranged dps/buff spec working too yeh

[deep pawn]

It wasn't that long.

[upper pasture]

It was still based off played time and a pretty long buff, something more causal players would struggle to play in a week

It was suppose to be an hour buff that stacked to 5 hours but at launch it was something different

[deep pawn]

It was short enough that I didn't feel comfortable doing it on a char I played regularly

Cause letting it fall off made you redo the stacking part

[upper pasture]

I’m telling you I had the opposite experience. I was worried about that too but never even noticed over 5 weeks if my buff was going to fall off or not, and that was playing pretty regularly and raiding 4/6 hours a week on my main. Plus you are incentivized to run timewalking on your main at least 5 times for the raid item from the quest

[ember blaze]

their range is already 25y 💀

[deep pawn]

Ironically no, I didn't need hero gear on my main

I ended up doing it on an alt that leveled from 70 to 72

[deep pawn]

Speculation on any hero tree refreshes?

I'm gonna guess Pack Leader, Flameshper, and I'm not sure who else is still basically ignored

[sullen dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/star-gif-16789607377123159596

[ember blaze]

wish they remove engulf 🤮

rogues trickser i think isnt liked and i think has a lot of bugs still

[sleek solar]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-impossible-out-of-hand-gif-16945967

Tobi and Toby

[tropic trail]

Haha 😂

[sullen dawn]

Once a huge portion of the official Xbox server renamed themselves Toby

[sleek solar]

xD

[sullen dawn]

When the mods stepped in they were gonna ban me because I wouldn't change me name. They thought I was just being stubborn and wouldn't believe it was my real name lol

[sleek solar]

HAHAHAHAHA

FUCKING OFFICE TOBY

[sullen dawn]

😭

[white nimbus]

Watching the new Siren's Isle video, I noticed this in the background. Whenever she's on screen, it feels like her monitors are purposefully out of focus. Is this further teasing Undermine? Notice the smoke coming off the buildings, it seems like the standard BFA style heavily industrial goblin buildings.

It feels like they did this on purpose to tease it

[sleek solar]

Thats Kezan

The goblin starter

[sullen dawn]

Yeh this was mentioned a little bit up the chat

Definitely a tease

[silent urchin]

It seems to literally be the screenshot off the warcraft wiki, which is from the start of the goblin intro cinematic

[little hound]

Or maybe is just an inspiration for the Siren ISle's Goblin structures.

WoW Community: Sees a random WoW photo in the background AH LAWD IT HAS TO BE A TEASER.

[silent urchin]

They've teased stuff this way before

[little hound]

Yep, and most of the time, a photo is just a photo.

[pulsar minnow]

Well we literally have “GOBLIN RAID” weapon icons in the files

It’s guaranteed we’re getting a goblin raid/zone this expansion

[little hound]

Yup. We had Ardenweald raid weapons and armor in the files too. Didn't happen.
We had Ethereal armor/weapons in the files too! Didn't happen.

[pulsar minnow]

You understand ardenweald_raid referred to the night fae raid weapon textures right

Because every covenant had different weapons from raid

[little hound]

I know 🙂

[pulsar minnow]

So you understand your point is moot

[little hound]

Ethereal weapons/armor files are still nowhere to be seen.

[pulsar minnow]

It’s almost like we’ve only had one raid so far

We saw in dragonflight both the emerald dream and Zaralek zones get leaked this exact same way

[little hound]

So people state their opinions about it being a possible spoiler, and its fine.
I say its possibly nothing and most likely not, oh no, i have to fight people to have an opinion.

[pulsar minnow]

Not to mention undermine is literally apart of gazlowes story in the war within companion novel

[little hound]

Doubt we'll get an Undermine zone/raid this Expansion. Its hardly related to the theme of the Worldsoul Saga.

[pulsar minnow]

Nobody is forced to agree with you

[upper pasture]

His point is just bits labeled “goblin raid” doesn’t mean it has to be a GOBLIN raid its could just be weapons themed as goblin bits from the next raid, not saying we aren’t getting a goblin raid but we are getting those goblin surf boards on the isle

[pulsar minnow]

Lmao it’s the underground expansion dawg

[little hound]

Didn't say so, now did i?

[pulsar minnow]

Well you sure don’t seem to like it when someone does

So let’s just agree to disagree

[upper pasture]

For all we know if gazlowe is a delve companion it could be items from the next season of delves /shrug

[little hound]

Suits him to be so.

Gazlowe as S2's Companion in Delves would be nice. Maybe some Undermine-themed Delves?

[pulsar minnow]

Well we know next zone is Rootlands since it was datamined, along with the rexxar companion. Undermine will probably just be the raid

[warm topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxELQTV1L3s

[rain cave]

Shattrath raid lol

But yeah who knows what they're doing really

[rain cave]

Hard disagree

It fits this expansion well, they're even setting it up like the harranir

[little hound]

I do hope they'll have good lore with the Harronir.

[sullen dawn]

Yeh and they've done it before and it was always a tease when this obviously placed

[sullen dawn]

This was always speculated to be for the end of the expansion so why would they

[sullen dawn]

No ones saying you cant have that opinion, we just think it's wrong

[little hound]

And that i have nothing against 🙂

[deep pawn]

I really don't think we're going off world this expansion

11.1 Undermine and 11.2 Roothome and the Manifold

[pulsar minnow]

I think we could have an ethereal raid

I mean we saw what happened in Zaralek. Weird void portal there

What if that happens in Khaz Algar

[deep pawn]

It just doesn't fit with the theme of the expansion as told.

No, if we visit Karesh it'll be inside the void somehow

[clear apex]

Def think midnight will be pretty heavy on the void theme

[austere gazelle]

void and light yeah

[sullen dawn]

I'll take this of it means undermine

Id rather undermine and k'aresh but honestly if we get undermine 11.1 I'd take return to korthia for 11.2

[rain cave]

Agreed

Karesh feels like it would be midnight

Unless it's the final patch like hfc teased legion

But even then I feel there's already enough plot lines

I mean they're already fully planned out for midnight anyway

Moreso than usual

So ethereal raid could be referencing a midnight raid

Not that we don't see them more this expansion

E.g. we find more ethereals making deals and acting as behind the scenes string pullers

Particularly in the goblin stuff

That datamined tabard that people say looks ethereal idk

It could also be a voidy beledar style tabard

Or maybe there's a new ethereal pvp arena coming

As further teasing

[deep pawn]

come on ptr

I need notes

[silent urchin]

not expecting it for another hour or two

ptr tends to be a bit later, especially the first build

[sullen dawn]

I feel like midnight should be going well beyond k'aresh

Into the actual void plane of existence

But it could be midnight yeh

[rain cave]

I mean in the same way we had legion stuff on Azeroth before heading into space that's what I imagine midnight will be

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I know I agree I just personally would go with k'aresh as final TWW place and then final zone of midnight if like "heart of the void" or something, pure comsic horror realm

They would be different. K'aresh would be the legion equivalent. Midnight final zone would be something completely insane and new

I don't disagree with you btw, I think it's also very possible k'aresh is midnight

I'm just saying what id like

It's very possible 11.2 is an ethereal raid, and also at the core of azeroth instead of in space

But they'd need some story focus pretty urgently. From 11.1 onward

[rain cave]

my best guess for the plotline from TWW to midnight is
-> 11.1 Goblin Raid, ethereals and goblin cartels together
-> 11.1.5 rootlands megadungeon and new zone for the harranir, "beware the eyes of green" whisper is payed off
-> 11.2 Beledar payed off and xalatath reintroduced from the shadows at the end
-> 12.0 Sunwell is put in danger, Isle of Quel'danas becomes a stronghold for blood elf, high elf refugees. Begin the reunification of elves, night elves don't want something to happen to their brethren that's analagous to teldrassil. We retake silvermoon in the raid, but Xalatath uses the sunwell to start something.
-> 12.0.5 Azshara/Naga reintroduced?
-> 12.1 if I were to guess, K'aresh
-> 12.2 Dimensius

[deep pawn]

Karesh could be inside the void.

Or pulled into it

Outland was in the twisting nether after all.

[rain cave]

true, Ig I mean more etherealstuff

and the dimensius 'raid' could be more azeroth centric as he's trying to eat us in the last moments of the raid

and we have to do something to stop him

I doubt we're going into the void to fight him

because he's not a threat to us when he's in there

also I'm still 50/50 on if they actually kill xalatath by the end of this

or if we just break her, make her extremely angry after ruining her plans and then she just dips

[sullen dawn]

My guess would be.

11.1 goblins/undermine and more info on xals goals
11.1.5 root lands mega dungeon and mini zone
11.1.7 ethereal story buildup
11.2 k'aresh
12.0 Sun well in danger
12.1 Amani stuff and how void ties into some other Azeroth lore elements
12.2 we go to void plane, void elves and troll Shadowhunters lead the incursion

[rain cave]

the thing with karesh is it's going to have to fit very awkwardly into the war within story

[sullen dawn]

I would see Xal being final boss of 12.0 Sun well raid, and Azshara being final boss of 12.2 void throne of power raid

[uncut vault]

I agree, but that season 3 PvP tabard is pretty hard to dispute thematically haha

[rain cave]

which is effectively a prologue for more cosmic expansions, and focuses on azeroth centric activities

[sullen dawn]

I think if they lean on the mirroring of the two world souls it can work. Basically we need to understand what happened there to save Azeroth

[rain cave]

oh I know, but that could still be something else

like still involving ethereals

but in the same way HFC was a "legion" raid, but on draenor

it could easily be that we basically fight an excursion of ethereals on azeroth

for example: Void elf rebellion, Siege of stormwind as the ethereals and rogue void elves team up

conclusion being that Anduin goes back into being the king. Sets up void stuff next expansion, and develops the void elves and elf lore more. Also would help lightforged / turalyon's story

AND would give a more direct reason why the elves want to reunite, and why the alliance would defend a horde city

but that's just a random idea

[sullen dawn]

Yeh 11.2 can still be a wildcard and have an 'ethereal theme'

I don't think it will be k'aresh like for sure, I just want it to be

It could be centre of Azeroth, or something like you just said, and still be "ethereal themed"

[sleek solar]

Which one?

[sleek solar]

Ohhh I thought that was s2

I actually kinda… like? That one

If not for the flaps

Would love a shirt of it

[ionic terrace]

build out

[silent urchin]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/1107-update-ptr-development-notes/1998869

[dense plover]

this screen is new

[silent urchin]

store doesn't quite load but

[dense plover]

oh interesting choice to reuse that interface

[silent urchin]

if the item placeholders are accurate, 5 mounts

[dense plover]

tbh, it wouldve been neat to do an ingame hub instead of having everything in a menu

that way you could meet and party up with people before queuing

[silent urchin]

char copy not co-operating and I don't have any 80s on this set of realms :(

[rain cave]

thing is it also looks very naaru

I think it literally shares naaru runes with the lightforged in some cases

so it could also be a beledar themed patch, and the pvp tabard is like the "corrupted" version as they sometimes do

[uncut vault]

The ethereals in the current story are the remaining members of the Shadowguard from Eredath, so that's probably why

[silent urchin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1296758404400025620/1301713125988372592/image.png?ex=67257a51&is=672428d1&hm=ae705d96acbd967eb147905059b2761bb3d9e9b683e78b7222432247613508a2&

meta achievement!

[uncut vault]

the runes on the cloak are very small part compared to the tabard itself being flat out an ethereal wrap haha

[silent urchin]

first four are zone stuff, last is new island

[rain cave]

I know they changed it for a good reason but it's such a shame that we lost as good a sounding name as Mac'aree

[rain cave]

especially since they replaced it with Eredath which is awful 💀

[ionic terrace]

uh uhm

[silent urchin]

BFA meta!

[ionic terrace]

yes

LMAO

[deep pawn]

Bleh

I'll do it but I hate timewalking these days

I'm kinda surprised at no class stuff. Might not be worth it for 4-6 weeks

Oh snap, those war skirts with the masquerade gloves.

More Magical Girl mogs!

[silent urchin]

ooh

[deep pawn]

Hah so glad I didn't waste tenders

I'm regretting buying the scarecrow set even

[rain cave]

it's never a waste if you enjoy the rewards

[deep pawn]

Mog sets are so expensive

[rain cave]

although this is true it did feel like they intentionally hid that

like

damn that's crazy

[deep pawn]

And tenders too restrictive

[rain cave]

especially since we usually know rewards in advance

[rain cave]

also this

I've been playing Way more since TWW launched, so I end up completing loads of tender rewards even past the 1000

and it feels like I have LESS to work with

[deep pawn]

Like I am glad I didn't bite on the diving suit when I can get it from fishing derby

[rain cave]

than before where I just did the monthly usually

[rain cave]

some of the mog sets are actually such a bait because

I bought diving suit and scarecrow

and some others

but like

when am I actually going to mog them, it feels like I just have them for the sake of having them

they're really niche things to transmog, they don't really fit many characters at all

[deep pawn]

I do use some. I use the magical girl set

[rain cave]

yeah I used that a bit

mainly because it matches the toons I like playing usually

[deep pawn]

I do wish I could refund the scarecrow set cause of the freebie

Oh well, I still have like 3k

[rain cave]

yeah scarecrow is a weird one to try mog

[deep pawn]

It looks good on my undead monk

[rain cave]

I've done so many tendies rewards but it feels like I'm missing them

usually you have to go collect from the box

but I can't

and I can't tell if I'm getting rewards or not because even after doing 5 random challenges through playing, I still onlyhave 300 left, which is what I had before

so I can't tell if the rewards are so small or just not coming through for some reason

once you've done the monthly you can't even see how much each challenge is worth tendies wise

[deep pawn]

You get 500 for free and 500 more when you fill the bar.

[rain cave]

I thought you had to GET 1000 to get the reward

and you got 1000 free each month

[deep pawn]

Nah, it's 1000 combined

[rain cave]

did they change that?

[deep pawn]

That's why buying a transmog ensemble is so expensive.

It's almost the entire month

[rain cave]

so you get an extra 500 for doing 1000?

[silent urchin]

Pairing with the release of the specialization respec option, we are deploying some balance changes to several profession stats to bring them closer together in value. uhhh that first bit

[deep pawn]

Yeah.

[rain cave]

ok

so you get 2000 if you just do monthly

but then you get more from other challenges

[deep pawn]

No 1000

And that's it

[silent urchin]

they said the bar will be longer

[rain cave]

what?

I thought the challenges rewarded tenders

[deep pawn]

No, they reward bar progress

[rain cave]

they changed that from launch of trading post

[deep pawn]

No.

[rain cave]

because I swear it used to literally have the traders tender mark on the bar and challenges

that's so silly

why can't we just farm tenders for doing stuff

usually tender activites mean you're not making gold as well, so it literally means it keeps players on more and makes them less likely to pay for sub with gold

[deep pawn]

Cause they don't want you to feel like you have to do everything