beta-ptr-spoilers

[glass flicker]

Hopefully that doesn't require I kill Zekvir in that one awful delve.

[silent urchin]

Nope

[glass flicker]

Good!

[austere gazelle]

that was not the topic of the discussion, reread the previous answer. Point was " its lame to show only the last boss in story mode, but the whole raid would be very long to experience "

[glass flicker]

Maybe they should just give you the raid as it is, but with no trash mobs and bosses die in one hit.

[ember blaze]

thats just lfr

[glass flicker]

You're almost not wrong!

[sleek solar]

Sometimes LFR feels like it harder than heroic

Because not only are the enemies trying to kill you, but your group is trying to kill you aswell

[silent urchin]

Tanking LFR is always fun

there are two types of co tank

One taunts on cooldown. One never taunts

Both make the tank swaps exciting

[austere gazelle]

I remember doing LFR tanking on sludgefist. The other tank never took aggro or taunted so I had to handle the placement and the charge on pillars alone

it was terrifying

He suddenly woke up when I decided to stop tanking

[sleek solar]

Tanking Razageth was horible and it made me rethink my life

I never tanked again after that, got traumatized by the amount of wipes because the other tank kept taunting

I only wanted some gear

As a healer it was horrible but doable

Felt a bit like talking with a old person with dementia

“Dont stand in shit”

[silent urchin]

https://magazine.artstation.com/2024/09/blizzard-entertainment-world-of-warcraft-the-war-within/ I'm not sure how much of this is newly posted, but goddamn some of that concept art is incredible

also even more if you go through to each artists page

[silent urchin]

oh my god I need this as a mount

[rain cave]

A wax throne with a bunch of kobolds holding you up would be a funny mount as well

[ember blaze]

whats that plague looking caster there 🤔

that's not a warlock thing is it

[dense plover]

which thing

theres tons of images

just copy/paste the specific image

my question after looking at that is still 'who did the beledar animation'

[ember blaze]

well thats one of them

looks like an evoker fire breath

i assume it's from some boss

[dense plover]

its labeled a poison ability

¯_(ツ)_/¯

might not have been used

[ember blaze]

hint at new poison spec? 😱

[dense plover]

no

just probably unused

maybe planned for a hero spec and cut

[uncut vault]

I think it’s more just they always make the full “kit” of NPC visuals when they create a new spell effect

All the covenant ones have a ton of unused variants in the same vein

The new “magics” added this xpac with the full VFX kit were honey, web, holy, and poison

[silent urchin]

Kobyss use a few things similar to that, but not sure about this exact one

[plain violet]

I think there was also the new shadow VFX right?

As every shadow spell from priest was updated in VFX for the base ground effect.

[ember blaze]

i wish spells were more flashy

like that one above youre channeling a beam that then explodes into that

give mages khadgar's beam

[plain violet]

We all love flashy. 😁

[tropic trail]

Oh I wanna this comet spell he casted on Xal’atath.

[glass flicker]

While at it, let's update some of the visual effects that never got changed. You know, 80% of the Monk's rig.

Blackout Kick just feels weightless.

[opal storm]

Looks like a slice of pizza

[ember blaze]

100% of hunter.

i know they would say "clarity" if they made a lot of stuff flashy, but no reason why they cant turn it off/down for anyone but yourself

[austere gazelle]

fel pizza for Taco Fel DH hero spec

[glass flicker]

Forget specs, let's talk about customization.

Afros for goblins when?

No afros?

[deep pawn]

The poison wave is likely a Nerubian ability somewhere

[sullen dawn]

And more rp animations/emotes please

Guard stance, lean on wall etc..

They're already in the game

[glass flicker]

Based!

[rain cave]

I feel like a lot of it would be sound as well

Like imagine for aimed shot, one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game

It played like a death whistle as the arrow erupts from your bow and fades into the distance

Give it some weight/ power

The vfx for aimed shot could also more visible since it goes so fast

[rain cave]

I hope we get our hands on those holy vfx sometime

Even if they're just retrofitted onto priest

I do love the idea of a holy dps caster though

Buff spec for paladin that sits back chanting and casting from Holy tomes

[sullen dawn]

Id rather a ranged paladin dos spec that can cast while moving. Inquisitor

Lots of instant (no cast) and cast while moving abilities

Heavy cc options

And a big emphasis on fire/radiant fire

Kind of a mix between a fire mage, marksmanship hunter, and frost DK gameplay wise, but with inquisition theme

[glass flicker]

While at it, let's give arrows new visual effects.

[rain cave]

and bullets ideally

would be nice if aimed shot for guns did a satisfying gun shot

[glass flicker]

No, I meant the arrow model while drawn.

Bows still use the same arrow model from the olden days.

Look at it. LOOK AT IT.

[sullen dawn]

Maybe they will rework ranged weapon stuff when we get Tinker in 13.0 TLT

[glass flicker]

You know, if you keep jinxing tinkers, they might never get added.

[rain cave]

*if

god how will new classes work going forward actually

with hero talents

in my head I kind of assumed we weren't getting new classes an they were just going to add hero talents to fill out other class fantasies

[sullen dawn]

I know what I said :p

Hero talents are pretty terrible at new fantasies tbh

[rain cave]

since each spec has 2 atm, there's no reason why future ones couldn't be single spec exlusive or be available to all 3

[rain cave]

I respectfully disagree

[sullen dawn]

They're there to solve a problem blizz (talent tree complexity) not us

[rain cave]

frostfire is fun af

spellslinge as well

sunfury is a bit mid for me but

I love the concept

[sullen dawn]

I would like to see full class skins if they wanna do that

[rain cave]

lightsmith is sooo cool

we can have class skins as well as hero talents

[sullen dawn]

I agree

[rain cave]

since we already have class skins in a way

glyphs

[sullen dawn]

I'm not against hero talents

[rain cave]

and greenfire are a thing

[sullen dawn]

I just don't think they add much fantasy

[sullen dawn]

Yes which are currently very limited and are rarely added

[rain cave]

their loss xD

[sullen dawn]

Im talking about a huge feature. Either full class skins, or loads of new glyphs

All I'm saying is, if you're suggesting something can take the place of brand new classes to add new fantasies, hero specs aren't sufficient in that respect

You need to add fill class skins (like necromancer for warlock), or massive glyph additions (like a a few hundred of them overall)

But it'd still like tinker

[rain cave]

necromancer could technically be a hero talent thing

either for unholy/blood, warlock or mage

I like the idea that if they add more hero talents, that they will go further since the basic ones exist

e.g. if they added a shaman 2h hero talent spec, they can do that since if you don't have a 2h you just just use the other ones

[sullen dawn]

Again I don't think hero talents do enough to satisfy new class (or even spec) fantasies

[rain cave]

I think you could pull it off

like necromancer, if they made that a frost mage only spec

replace icelance with a skeleton summon

change some stuff around

water elemental turns into a lich

[sullen dawn]

They only alter one (two at most) active abilities thematically, and some got lucky and got a single cook visual thing (like horses for rider of apoc, Phoenix for spell fire)

[rain cave]

so far

that's my point, we have the basic ones now

[sullen dawn]

Those two suggestions you made already go beyond what a hero talent does

[rain cave]

there's nothing stopping them from adding more experimental ones now

there is no rules, just what they want to do

[sullen dawn]

Yeh but we can only really discuss hero talents as concept as what they are now

Otherwise it's something new. Could you bake class skins into hero talents? Yes. But it requires a significant change to what hero talents are.

Which isn't impossible, it just means then they'd be doing what id be asking for - giving class skins

They'd just be tied to a new, larger version of hero talents. Which I'm fine with, but its currently not what hero talents are

[rain cave]

I'd be happy if they used hero talents to give some specs/classes the things they've been asking for for a while

[sullen dawn]

Which is a way for blizz to not add talent bloat to existing trees, and add a little flavour/flair at the same time

[rain cave]

rather than bloating the number of specs/classes

[sullen dawn]

Right, but they'd have to massively evolve on the concept, or add class skins

[rain cave]

necromancer wouldn't easily fit into a class skin imo

[sullen dawn]

I mostly agree, but I think there's room for 1-2 more classes at most. Mostly tinker, maybe warden

[rain cave]

and is too niche to be a class in itself

[sullen dawn]

It would fit a class skin

People have done concepts of jt

[rain cave]

for whom?

[sullen dawn]

Warlock

[rain cave]

they use demons though

that's the issue

they use fel/shadow magic

[sullen dawn]

The class skin would change that lol

[rain cave]

yeah but then it's not a warlock

[sullen dawn]

It is if the abilities do the same mechanical thing, with the same damage numbers

[rain cave]

I don't think class skins should literally change the class into a new fantasy

[sullen dawn]

That's what class skins are

[rain cave]

I think they should just allow people to live out fantasies present within their classes realm that aren't represented in game

like what sunfury and frostfire did

or lightsmith

[sullen dawn]

*which they failed to do

[rain cave]

I don't think they failed

[sullen dawn]

Sun fury is just a fire mage with some blood elf flaire

[rain cave]

I think they just had to stretch to find fantasies on some areas

[sullen dawn]

It's not a brand new fantasy. If you're suggesting that replaces the level of fantasy a new class can bring, I don't know what to say to you

[rain cave]

people have wanted fire phoenix's and spell orbs for agess

sunfury gives that

[sullen dawn]

I'm not saying they haven't, but it's just an extension of fire really

[rain cave]

people wanted frostfire back for ages

they brought it back

[sullen dawn]

Ok we're taking a obout different things

[rain cave]

Necromancer fits more on mage wthan warlock imo

[sullen dawn]

You said, they don't need to add new classes, hero talents can add the same level of fantasu

[rain cave]

and as a hero talent thing

[sullen dawn]

That's mathematically untrue

[rain cave]

Kelthuzad was a mage

[sullen dawn]

New classes add dozens of new abilities and animations

Hero talents change like 1-2 abilities, slightly

[rain cave]

new classes add not just new animations

they add a whole boar of balance woes

new tier sets

and armour

[sullen dawn]

If you want something that doesn't add new class bloat, which provide huge new fantasies, then add class skins

[sullen dawn]

I know that lmao

That was your original point

[rain cave]

I agree they should add class skins

[sullen dawn]

Class skins don't add balance woes, but they do add a lot of fantasy, far beyond what hero talents are capable of

[rain cave]

but I disagree that necromancer should be a warlock class skin

unless they literally put a whole questchain around it

of like

[sullen dawn]

It's just an example

[rain cave]

warlocks having issues with demons since the legion is gone

[sullen dawn]

You wouldn't be a warlock anymore

That's the point of class skins

[rain cave]

and there's no lich king so they go learn to tame undead with the ebon blade

[sullen dawn]

They change your 'class' without changing the balance or mechanics

[rain cave]

to cull the undead hordes in northrend

[sullen dawn]

It's just an example

People have done loads of examples

[rain cave]

if they do class skins they should still fit with the base class

[sullen dawn]

Disagree

[rain cave]

if they requires a small quest to go get that feature and explain it so be it

[sullen dawn]

Some can

That's fine

But there should be transformative ones too

[rain cave]

but necromancers and warlocks are distinct entities

[sullen dawn]

I am full aware of that

You're not listening to me lol

[rain cave]

so I don't think you should just reskin a warlock as a necromancer

no I am

I'm just saying I disagree on what those class skins should be

[sullen dawn]

Some class skins stick within the realm of the existing class. Some change them fundamentally

[rain cave]

if you want to give warlocks undead, fine. But there should be an in universe explanation for that.

same with void paladins

[rain cave]

a little questline with that void elf paladin in the void elf zone, with her teaching people how to wield it in that way

would be cool

[sullen dawn]

The explanation is your character isn't a warlock

[rain cave]

I've seen these

[sullen dawn]

It's a necromancer

[rain cave]

and they are cool

but fundamentally when you mouseover someone it will say warlock

that has to be the case for readability

[sullen dawn]

It wouldn't it would say Necromancer, and maybe in brackets (Warlock)

[rain cave]

imo it's cooler if they find a way to make it work

with warlocks

rather than just half assing it and saying they're not warlocks

[sullen dawn]

I disagree with you on that core point

[rain cave]

like where would you even get these class skins

they just get added in a patch? you craft them or do a little acievement and bam just go to the barber shop

[sullen dawn]

It's not half assing. The entire point is adding new "classes" and "specs" without all the effort of designing a new one, and adding more balance complexity

That's the entire pitch

[sullen dawn]

I think similar to allied races

[rain cave]

I'd prefer if they went "ok people want necromancers, warlocks mechanically fit that well so lets find a way to make warlocks take on some of that necromancer role"

and so you do that little questline as a warlock to unlock binding undead, and those undead act as skins for your demons

and maybe some of your spells

[sullen dawn]

That's fine, that's your personal preference

I don't want that

I want full transformations

Some can be less night and day. But fundamentally it's about changing the core fantasy, not adding to it

Giving way more roleplay options, without the balance issues

[rain cave]

you can change without subtraction or addition though

like a warlock who does the necromancer training, it's just more options to change their core fantasy

[sullen dawn]

I know. They still have the same number or abilties

[rain cave]

rather than just ignoring that they are a warlock

[sullen dawn]

I think we disagree

Let's leave it there

[rain cave]

like whenI make a character I'm not making a necromancer

making a warlock

so any skins should be recognizable as that first choice ig

[sullen dawn]

My final point - one implementation would be that on class creation you actually would click necro under warlock

And you can't change

So you would be making a necromancer

Another is you can change at barber

[rain cave]

myehh I prefer hero talents, lets them get more creative ig

[sullen dawn]

Hero talents aren't that

I've been over that

Anywya

[rain cave]

I want them to get more creative with hero talents

[sullen dawn]

Nice chatting 🙂

[rain cave]

to be that

like I think they could cook really hard with a frost mage lich hero spec

could even make it revolve a phylactery

I just want them to get creative with it, that's where they've had best success

historically the new systems they've added had best implementation when they were allowed to get creative and add just straight up cool things that explain their place

warlock for all races questline

manari questline

nightborne/suramar

[sleek solar]

Necromancer would be the best new spec for DK

Ranged DK

Yessss

[rain cave]

I guess the core thing is that DK already has unholy, and is a plate wearer

most of the necromancer peeps want something clothy, like how priests are to paladins

which is why I think mage fits best since they were the original necromancers, and they'd offer an icy undead theme rather than the pestulant one

[winged dagger]

Do we know what the three pet battle trainers that rotate out every day in the 20th anniversary are there for yet? They feel like only half their code is there so far.

[rain cave]

mechanically you could easily just transplant undead onto warlocks and call it a day. But I think most necromancer peeps want something more fantasy satisfying than that

[sleek solar]

That would very much be the best option, but I dont see them doing that

Making a Mage necromancer would also be cool lol

Or blood mage

[proper palm]

Oooh yes.. But when i see my light shild casting on my shadow priest, i don't have hope for next spec for another class :/

[deep pawn]

"The Manifold"

[sleek solar]

Just imagine if we got a true dark ranger class, where we can exit out bodys to be a banshee

[austere gazelle]

Yes. The Manifold. Its core complex will probably be the last raid.

[deep pawn]

well it's world spanning

it's possible still that we teleport from facility to facility

[austere gazelle]

yes but there is a core complex that is the center of it all apparently, since Brynne apparently know what it is

[deep pawn]

well Archaedas described the entire thing as a complex

[austere gazelle]

That's no clear to be honest, he said that and Brinthe said she know what complex is he talking about xD

We still have Uldaz that is unnacounted for

[deep pawn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/117109898420027400/1288243651276832819/image.png?ex=66f479e4&is=66f32864&hm=39db2048486f0819a23e6bc975848fbfc3db903b21c339cfa90e01179559adeb&

the manifold is a world-spanning complex of machines, forges, and installations

[silent urchin]

tbh it doesn't really tell us much new

we've already visited a bunch of world spanning machines, forges and installations

giving it a name and confirming the purpose is neat

But we're still a little way from actually uncovering that grand conspiracy

that said so far it's confirmed a lot of the speculation

[dreamy dove]

Since is speculated that the manifold is a bigger complex AND the coreway is a part of it that the titanforged used to reach the worldsoul to monitor it, and since beledar’s is the origin of the radiant song (as anduin and the arathi believes) AND it started to turn to void after sargeras stabbed azeroth, is possible that beledar itself is like a “cocoon” for Azeroth’s worldsoul?

Plus nerubian’s old god blood pools are directly near hallowfall, and since y’shaarj was the only one ripped from the planet, could be that the pools are where it was radicated and so directly under the maelstrom (physically i mean, not in another plane like deepholm)
Could mean that y’shaarj itself was crawling to azeroth worldsoul and that the said worldsoul was indeed inside beledar

[silent urchin]

Personally I think it's part of whatever the lights version of the manifold is. Something here to connect to and monitor/control the world soul, but not the thing itself. The radiant song appears to come from it because the connection goes both ways, but we probably have to go much, much deeper for the actual world soul

[dreamy dove]

Yeah, it’s not the world soul, the worldsoul is inside it.
And now it comes to my mind: it looks naaru in nature, at least to me; and velen said back in the days while speculating with tyrande that to him Elune feels like an immensely powerful naaru SO, since in NE culture Elune back in the days was said to bathe in the well of eternity, and that in velen’s vision she’s a naaru, and that beledar looks like a naaru artifact, could be that beledar is connected to elune? And what if elune herself is just the night elven name given by them to azeroth? Maybe i’m stranding too much?🤔

[austere gazelle]

Beledar might be ( and I say might) An'she or An'she's fragment. Azeroth being the Earthmother, and the Earthmother being the mother of both Elune and An'she, the fact that the Beledar, if it is a part of An'she, radiate with the song of the mother would be logical. Moreover, if you look at the mural in Azj Kahet, the eye of the old god have the same shape as the floating crystal. And Elune and An'she both are described as being " the eyes of the Earthmother ", so as it is a theory and it can be wrong, there is some thought to considers there

[sullen dawn]

I think the world soul is deeper still than we've gone

[austere gazelle]

well, it's in the center of the earth so its deeper than any other stuff tbh :p

[silent urchin]

https://twitter.com/algalon_ghost/status/1838692746468421856 👀 more 11.0.7 stuff happening

Algalon, Enigmatic Observer (@algalon_ghost) on X

New #Warcraft build found:
Internal 3 (wowdev3)🔐: 11.0.7.56512 --> 11.0.7.56721

Found at: 09-24-2024@09:31:25 UTC

Twitter · Sep 24, 2024, 9:31 PM

I am curious when we're getting that warcraft direct that gives us more info including new roadmap, that was mentioned at gamescom

[sullen dawn]

I know but Belledar isn't

[deep pawn]

Per blizzard the roadmap is near the end of the year.

I'm gonna guess first week of November during the anniversary and traditional Blizzcon time

It does feel weird the 11.0.7 ptr is active internally this early when it likely doesn't go live until January

Unless it's unusually big and needs extra testing

[dense plover]

Gotta test stuff somehow

[deep pawn]

We've only had a few x.x.7s but they usually don't show up before the .5

[silent urchin]

We have no idea how much is actually in those builds. It might be little more than some art assets and some really basic feature concepts.

[pulsar minnow]

I’m just saying, how badass would it be if Beledar dimmed and then you see the outline of a sleeping god

Like Illidan

Shit would be hype as hell

[sleek solar]

Haha yeah

[rain cave]

I mean, xalataths original body encased in holy glass?

lmao

[pulsar minnow]

Even that would be sick as hell

Just having Beledar be a shell for a giant monster would be awesome

Sometimes rule of cool is all you really need

[rain cave]

the nerubian mural in which case showing the crystal arriving about to imprison her

a key moment for them since it would have freed them from their overlord

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t exactly think the old god like being in the mural is xal tbh

I think it was just a general figure to represent the old gods and how the Nerubians freed themselves from them

[rain cave]

yeah I doubt they'd just play their hand like that for xal

even if it's an unconfirmed tease

I did wonder if Xal is actually the mad queen from nerubian history

[pulsar minnow]

Well xal has been in the knife longer than nerubians have been nerubians no?

[rain cave]

we do not know

we just know she was in the black empire

[upper pasture]

Real talk, are we sure the radiant song is even good? I’ve noticed there’s a few npcs that are reacting negatively to the song. Makes me think it could be just a xal’atalth thing and not actually the world soul

[rain cave]

well we know that people hear different songs at least in some cases

like Alleria hearing Xal and whispers more instead of the song everyone else gets

Anduin is more light attuned, and reacted to the "song" from Beledar, thinking it was the OG song, even if it turned out not to be

could be all the forces within Azeroth calling out to their agents

which is predominantly order and shadow at this point ig

[upper pasture]

Yeah, I’m mostly talking about that kill quest in dorn. Where it’s the elemental that’s crying out in pain about the song/sounds. And when you kill them they are glad that he finally doesn’t hear it anymore

[rain cave]

maybe they'll actually use thrall for something there

[upper pasture]

There was also another NPC somewhere else that had a similar reaction

[rain cave]

a patch with thrall going to the elements and seeing how they react to the song in the deep. Maybe we could get some ex primalists in as a supporting cast to help us

[sleek solar]

What if the hallowfall people were lured away from the empire, then the empire got attacked, and their mages got killed so both the empire, as their navy could not get reinforcements

[upper pasture]

It’s just aren’t the elementals the OG inhabitants of Azeroth and if so why would they be annoyed/pained by the radiant song

[rain cave]

yeah

implies there's something else afoot

I think she's pretty titany atm

[upper pasture]

Make me think that the radiant song is just an xal’alath thing to motivate us to do what she needs

[rain cave]

ehh idk It could be. There was that visual of the shadow closing in around the world soul in that big cgi cinematic

which mirrored onto the orbs floating around xal

[upper pasture]

I don’t think it’s titan adjacent since whatshisface said his planet experienced it too before it fell

[rain cave]

so there is some subtext/imagery that supports it

esp since Alleria is the only person who can more directly hear through Xal's disguises and illusions so far

and she hears Xal instead of the song

I do wonder what the link between Beledar and Xal is though

[upper pasture]

She hears the song just not the same as everyone else. No?

[rain cave]

I remember they said she hears whispers and more voidy stuff, but as a consequence it means she hears Xal constantly

but I'm not sure of the specifics

[hollow stump]

where did anduin say that beledar is the source of the radiant song?

(this is legit question, i don't think i've seen that)

[pulsar minnow]

Alleria doesn’t hear the radiant song at all

https://youtu.be/DSvLkzRt9fc?si=6a-0VHHpQwPqO8gJ

She says it here

[deep pawn]

Metzen said not everyone hears the song, others hear the void

[upper pasture]

She still has visions tho? Which is literally what the radiant song is

[pulsar minnow]

Well that’s not exactly the radiant song

[upper pasture]

Just because she sees through the suspected illusions

[pulsar minnow]

The radiant song is the visions we are all collectively getting

Shes getting different visions

Sure you can interpret it as that but that’s also assuming that the radiant song is xal atath

[upper pasture]

So she’s getting visions just like everyone else just not the same as everyone else. Which only reinforces the song is just a tool by xal’atalth

She probably sees through the illusion of the song because of her connection to the void but I’m sure someone has already said that

[rain cave]

ye you made me think that

it's an interesting plot

watch it turn out to be nzoth all along

[pulsar minnow]

I mean sure? That’s one way to look at it

[uncut vault]

the earthen hear the radiant song after being infused by Magni's power

[pulsar minnow]

But keep in mind Magni never got the radiant song either

[uncut vault]

which explicitly saved them from Xal'atath's plans

Which could still be some kind of 4D chess move by her, but it'd sap some of the emotional value from magni's sacrifice

[rain cave]

well specifically, magni is a way more reliable source for hearing azeroth

and she'd been quiet to him, he was literally meant to be the speaker and he was hearing nothing not even hearing the radiant song

the fact that at a key moment where everyone else is hearing a radiant song, he still only hear effectively a whisper from azeroth directly

to me that implies it was like she managed to slip a message through the bars in a cell

in BfA perhaps we could hear everything because her prison was smashed open, by the end we closed it back up

but if the prison was open, what could have got in?

the Heart of azeroth works here as well, since it interacted with the maw (a prison)

[uncut vault]

Based on what little we've seen, the 'song' also includes direct whispers from her

we see in the trailer that Azeroth directly speaks Anduin's name too, and he and Thrall both clearly consider that the radiant song

[rain cave]

She also shrieks in pain after attempting to whisper to anduin

Is one way you could look at it

The whispers are lot less frequent

[pulsar minnow]

It’s been a while so my mind is rusty on it but in shadowlands, didn’t we hear some shit about a song and voices joining the chorus

I know it’s obvious but maybe it’s really just as simple as “hey, Beledar is related to the song because it’s joining the chorus”

Much like how Anduin was led to silithus. Maybe gorribal being a giant fel weapon- joined the chorus

[dreamy dove]

This cinematic:

https://youtu.be/BDckVEdIvQo?si=a6AvDYaG4ZVhzIY1

[sleek solar]

Omggggg

I never saw that one

[tropic trail]

It’s when you click “stay a while and listen”.

[uncut vault]

From Saezurah in Zereth Mortis

Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Quiet now, but her voice will awaken the others.

Can you hear their echoes?

[tight wagon]

anyone know how to get the algalon discord bot for new wow builds? my country's access to twitter is temporary disabled

[pulsar minnow]

Thanks!

Voice will awaken the others probably means that the song is attracting the other forces then right

So pretty much exactly what we’re seeing

[rain cave]

imagine if they uprezzed benediction/anathema for anniversary

probably too much for the workload with all the other stuff

but would have been cool to see those come back

wonder if they'll ever do it

[austere gazelle]

And there is another line, by the old gods.

Her dream sing beneath the surface. Our Dream. Our song.

[upper pasture]

It would be ironic if “her song” is Xal and the ones she’s “awakening” are the old gods

[austere gazelle]

There is also those line
With that many eyes, they will see again. They will drink and be uplifted
They will follow him to the deep places. The black water will flow in his wake
Deeper and deeper it roots will reach. Welcoming our Embrace

[pulsar minnow]

Could be that war within was originally intended to have Iridikron as our main baddie in 11.0 and that’s what that meant

[sullen dawn]

Probably 1st week December

Same time they always do roadmap

[deep pawn]

that's too late to start the 11.0.7 ptr probably

[sullen dawn]

They can start the 11.0.7 ptr before the direct

And announce it

Direct can focus on 11.1 and overall roadmap, plus maybe some surprises

I expect the 11.0.7 ptr to kick off in ernest early November (or maybe very late October)

[deep pawn]

it can be any time after the 22nd I guess

[proper palm]

Good.

[rain cave]

it's interesting to me that they made a whole new asendance form instead of just adding updated visuals that overlay onto your character

since ascendance as a cooldown has always been weird to me how it transforms you into a weird floaty creature rather than just making you infused with said element

[uncut vault]

It’s also a funny follow up to an xpac where we constantly saw elemental ascendancy, and it didn’t look like this at all haha

[rain cave]

yeah they kind of remind me of the banshee models and those floating zandalari ghosts from MoP

not the elemental stuff we've seen

[deep pawn]

is the same form, with new armor and hair

[deep pawn]

Blame Twilight Cultists

it's how they ascend in Cata

[ember blaze]

blame whoever designed the original form.

[sleek solar]

I love these interactions with the Earthen

It also says some things and clears things up about them

I missed a lot of background information with the dracthyr

[plain violet]

I'll say to prefer the more energetic one..

[sleek solar]

Left is way better imo

But they both look amazing

Left is something I want to play as all the time lol, not just ascendance form

Right would be cool as Left's ascendance form

I am so much smaller than Anduin xD

Even my chair is smaller, I think I am the child of the group

[proper palm]

Where you find the glyph for hair element one ? 😮

[plain violet]

Shaman class domain! :)

[proper palm]

Thanks 😄

[plain violet]

On that I agree! Right fit for me because more character driven, but they both are great!

[sullen dawn]

It's basically

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-she-tirned-me-into-a-newt-gif-14862319

[warm topaz]

guys, how undermine is? Is there any reference to help me imagine what it might be like?

[sullen dawn]

Like a mix between Zaun from Arcane

And the mother lode dungeon in BFA

[warm topaz]

Lies of P-ish vibes

i like it

[sullen dawn]

Yeh think steampunk mixed with neon and whimsey

[sullen dawn]

Probably less "serious" than Zaun or Pi, but yeh not a million miles away

I expect more neon lights, and general hijinx

Hearthstone also did a "what if" expansion once if Gadgetzan got turned into a big city. Might help for comparison too

[warm topaz]

i really like goblin aesthetic

the building, the music, oh i love the goblin music

[sullen dawn]

Agree

Blizz could have sooooo much fun with a undermine patch

[sleek solar]

So literally steampunk

I love it

[deep pawn]

Woooo

The class and weapon mogs are being made useable by other classes

[sleek solar]

I loved these quests

[sullen dawn]

She was a little maniac lmao

[sleek solar]

Hahaha yup

She was adorable

[silent urchin]

She needs to stop being lazy and spawn the WQ one more time so I can finish the achievement

[tropic trail]

She’s amazing. 😻

[sleek solar]

I love her attitude "where have you been??"
"avenging my parents and killing the monsters, just like I said I would"

Even as I typed that I couldn't stop laughing xD

[ember blaze]

is there any elemental that looks like that anyways

and those that ascended like kurog and dathea didnt look like banshees

[plain violet]

Like the right one? Ragnaros got a face similar.. or the ones from cataclysm, wich were all ugly faces. 😁

[rain cave]

it's apparently not even a what if, gadgetzan in lore is meant to be a sprawling city I think isn't it?

[sullen dawn]

It was marketed as an alternate universe kind of thing, where death wing destroyed a lot of tanaris making Gadgetzan a direct port town right on the beach and then some crime gangs invested loads into it building it into a large city

So yeh what if

But they could make it like that in game at some point

[silent urchin]

Hearthstone gadgetzan is definitely set somewhat after Cata. It's not strictly alternate universe but it's also not canon unless we get an in game update for it

Everything in game is scaled ridiculously far down because anything remotely realistic would be multiple zones in size if not an entire continent, we're never really going to see it as depicted in hearthstone

[warm topaz]

iirc from Karazhan to Stormowind is like 2 days or 1,5 days something like that

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I know/agree things are scaled down in wow, but that version of Gadgetzan was presented as a "potential" rather than now it actually is in lore

But it's a cool idea for the place so they may do it. A world revamp would be the right time

If we get undermine this expansion they'll have lots of useable assets 😉

*how not now

[sleek solar]

Cant wait to learn more about Locus walker

[austere gazelle]

Who's the master of Ky'veza ? do you think its locus walker acting in the shadows ?

[rain cave]

Doubt it, we've not seen locus working with other ethereals. It would be hard for him to mastermind a whole cartel

Also would mean he has bounties on all of us

[silent urchin]

there's more than one ethereal

[rain cave]

Yes that's what I said lol

I think it's just the ethereum

[silent urchin]

pretty much, we've pissed off basically every ethereal we've ever met

[rain cave]

They don't care for us, they would want to stop xal, and if we're being manipulated by xal it'd make sense they'd put a bounty on us

They been studying us through trial of style and brawlers guild after all

[deep pawn]

I still find it hard to believe Ethereals and Brokers are two separate races

[rain cave]

I'm convinced there's a connection

Even if its literally just like the brokers are ordered versions / constructs mimicking the ethereals as a way for the order guys to study since the ethereals survived dimensius

[pulsar minnow]

One thing worth noting

Tbh I thought it was just a lazy reuse of assets

But maybe

[deep pawn]

We speculated back then that the Brokers saw themselves as Order in the Shadowlands

[rain cave]

they dislike the titans for taking credit for the first ones stuff was one of the books/lines wasn't it?

which implies a level of knowing whats going on order wise

[silent urchin]

they seem very rules based

[sullen dawn]

I do think locus walker is a villain

[sullen dawn]

Imo ethereals aren't a "race"

It's a form

You're energy, tied together and given humanoid shape with some sort of construct

It's like saying "physicals" are a "race"

Brokers basically are ethereals for all intents and purposes, they have a different name because the culture in the shadowlands is different

And obviously it's a different type of energy

But there could easily be fel ethereals, light ethereals etc...

Even if not, other races like those from k'aresh that become ethereal

[deep pawn]

ethereals are a race, they're a people from a specific place until we're told otherwise

[sullen dawn]

Yeh it's just not how I interpreted it. The ones we know of (and they may be the only ones apart from brokers - true), but ethereal isn't the race, it's a force they took after their planet was described. We don't know the true name of the race or what they looked like etc..

For example of the same thing happened on Azeroth we could all become ethereal. We're in a new form, non physical

Doesn't mean we did a race change

[rain cave]

he seems quite red herring to me

he just knows more than he lets on for sure

[sullen dawn]

For sure

If not a villain, I do think there'll be some twist about him either way

[rain cave]

he probably knows something to do with time I would guess?

like he's acting in a very "I must set these things up to happen in this way" way

[sullen dawn]

Trying to stick it to Aman'Thul?

[rain cave]

more like he has a plan he perhaps glimpsed as part of the true timeline he's on

[uncut vault]

I figured the twist was going to be that he was the 'Alleria' of K'aresh

the one delving into the void in an attempt to protect the planet, only he failed and accidentally caused its doom via Xal'atath

[sullen dawn]

Very possible

[deep pawn]

Or he was taught by Xal like he's teaching Alleria, and he realized too late.

He knows who Xal was already

the harbinger name was new to him

[upper pasture]

Man, i wonder if the locus walker could be Xal or an agent of hers and he’s just training Alleria and letting her dip into the void to make her body ready for Xal to just take over so she can have a real body and not just the shell of what she has now. Although I wonder if her powers are limited in a sense until she’s in an alive body. Of course I have nothing to back this up but it would be crazy

The void is known for the long con right? Like they are definitely willing to take a L or two if it means winning the overall war

[deep pawn]

Plus we know N'zoth knew the true timeline

Thank you Chromie and Eternus

[sullen dawn]

They're definitely sneaky sneks

[rain cave]

he can't be xal

since we literally had xal in our hands when we met him lol

[rain cave]

yeah, wouldn't surprise me if he was told to teach alleria as part of some plan he thinks is just

after all xal literally backed off when he spoke

could be xal or somebody else malicious is the one who told him to teach alleria in disguise, telling him it's for the better of stuff

[sullen dawn]

Or he's demensius

[rain cave]

seems like it would fit his character arc, to have a horrible realization that he's been wrong

[sullen dawn]

:p

[rain cave]

god that would be insane as a reveal

and isn't actually impossible

[sullen dawn]

It would be a realllly cool twist imo

[rain cave]

"Yes, I do have a "real" name. It's none of your business.
Were I to speak it aloud, a thousand void portals would rip open and some very unpleasant entities would come looking to collect on old debts.
But by all means, if you want to see reality itself torn asunder, keep asking about my name.
Here's a hint: it's an ancient word of power. If I whisper it in your ear, your mind will fall into madness. Still want to play?"

[sullen dawn]

👀

That's the quote that made me suss on him in the first place

[rain cave]

"After telling Alleria that as long as her mind remained her own she could control the Void's power and that perhaps someday he would tell Alleria how he came to control it by himself, Locus-Walker took his leave."

considering that 'void lords' can't physically manifest, but act through puppets and avatars

there was that theory that the naaru who go dark go from being puppets of whatever big light beings are in their realm

to being puppets of void lords

hence why some are called void lords

[sullen dawn]

It's possibly he was still from k'aresh but his deal with the void to allow a void lord (Dimensius) to kind of merge with him destroyed their planet

[rain cave]

A locus is also a word meaning place

[sullen dawn]

Can walk between realities

[rain cave]

but specifically a position, a place

one could argue a dimension

[sullen dawn]

Yeh

Same thought

Even if he does embody (heh) Dimensius it's possible he's trying to redeem himself

[rain cave]

you know how a "day walker" is somebody who is of the sun, somebody who walks around in the day

[sullen dawn]

But id rather he's just flat out bad haha

[rain cave]

like if I said water walker, you could also interperate that as someone who walks with the water

or is OF the water if you stretch it a bit

since apparently the prefix "ius" means "belonging to" or "made of"

so dimensius would be analagous to "made of dimension" or "belonging to dimension"

[sullen dawn]

Man I really hope the final patch of TWW is k'aresh

Legion style

[rain cave]

idk I feel they'll save most of the void stuff for midnight

[sullen dawn]

It's time to blow the ethereal story wide open

[rain cave]

unless they really know what they're doing

and are confident we won't get burnt out

[sullen dawn]

Same but I think Azshara will be the bigger deal in midnight

[deep pawn]

Next patch is goblins I'm almost sure of it

11.2 is up in the air, but is likely root-home

[sullen dawn]

Dimensius prolly isn't the worst of the void lords, and Azshara has prolly been climbing the void ladder

[sullen dawn]

Please be undermine

[rain cave]

I'm debating if roots are the goblin patch as well

[sullen dawn]

Undermine, then K'aresh and this would be a dream expansion haha

[rain cave]

since they fit as counters to eachother

[sullen dawn]

I hope not

Unless it's a small part. Id love pure undermine

[deep pawn]

Undermine being relegated to just a raid would suck

[sullen dawn]

Agree 100%

As a zone there's so much potential for blizz to do some whacky creative stuff

Literal playground

[rain cave]

a tier set for a goblin raid would be hilarious

[sullen dawn]

For me the ideal situation would be 11.1 undermine, 11.5 deeproot mega dungeon, 11.2 k'aresh

[rain cave]

watch them make undermine the mega dungeon

[sullen dawn]

Then 12.0 amani raid, 12.1 sun well, 12.2 Azshara throne of void

[sullen dawn]

Please no

[rain cave]

Zuljin comes back missing his other arm

I hope azshara ends up on our side at least for the main void conflict before going off to be an antagonist

lord knows she has it in her

[sullen dawn]

My view is that she's been climbing the corporate ladder as it were

[rain cave]

if she can give her people a united place to be

[sullen dawn]

Gaining a lot of influence in void side, prolly pissing off some void agents as she goes

[rain cave]

she might do that before going back to being corporate in the void

if she cares about anything other than herself, it's her people

[sullen dawn]

I do wonder if she still cares for her people. I hope so

I know she did, but it's hard to know now

[rain cave]

naga allied race after she comes back and tries to undo their forms somewhat

to make them playable

[sullen dawn]

I don't see her being that redeemed, but definitely possible

Either way I think she's gonna play a big role in Midnight

[rain cave]

she can't really be redemmed, not in the way of becoming a good guy

[sullen dawn]

She can't not tbh. Big elven focus, final bit void focus for a long time (maybe ever)

[rain cave]

but I feel her and Xal are not aligned

[sullen dawn]

*can't not be a part of midnight :p just to clarify

[sullen dawn]

Agree

Void isnt a uni-purpose entity

I see it like a corporation haha

[rain cave]

if we called her up like "we're putting the gang back together to kick this toe wiggler back into her knife"

she'd probably do it

[sullen dawn]

A general structure, but lots of backstabbing for power

Fel is might makes right. Void is more subtle, they give the appearance of unification, but they're all playing games with eachother in the background

That's why imo the demons embraced Sargeras even though be was a titan

[rain cave]

Light is Right is right
Order is We are Right
Disorder is I'm Right, No I'm right, no I'M right
Death is the Arbiter is right but then we made them realize balance is right
Life is trees are right (and the trees overgrow everything)
Void is none of you are right you're all idiots

[sullen dawn]

Haha

A final point before I go to sleep

I look forward to getting to explore the demons again in the future, in a non burning legion context

Would be cool seeing if they have 'demon lords'. Probably not organized like a pantheon, maybe more like rival warlords?

Huge ass demons

Might be a while though, as it seems like light and life are next after the TWSS

Avaloren etc..

[deep pawn]

We've only dealt with Manari thus far

[rain cave]

even they are like

adopted demons

but then again

maybe they all are

[deep pawn]

All demons as far as we can tell are made.

[rain cave]

maybe every demonic race are victims of something else pulling their worlds into the nether

[deep pawn]

We thought the dreadlords were native but even they are death creatures

[sullen dawn]

Yep seems fel distorts races into demons

[rain cave]

they are literally what happens when another force removes the order from their natural planet

as in the ecology, the balance

[sullen dawn]

This is my biggest complaint about shadowlands

[rain cave]

like draenor got pulled into the nether

[sullen dawn]

I always wanted dreadlords to be the og demons

The anti azerothians

[rain cave]

the idea of every demon being made makes sense

otherwise the demon horses got some explaining to do

[sullen dawn]

Yeh we've seen the process happen

A lot

Eredar, satyr etc..

[rain cave]

even though people have perceived the cosmology chart as not objective already, maybe there's something new to be gleamed

the thing at the middle being reality on the titan one

and the great cycle on the broker one

[sullen dawn]

I still hope they retcon dreadlords are from shadowlands and have it that from the twisting nether they planted Denathrius soul into the first one creation process

[rain cave]

perhaps their charts just put what they deem as most important to them in the middle

not what is the balance or midpoint

if the titans strive to ensure reality remains reality, that things stay on the true timeline, that worlds don't split open and summon extraplanar entities, that demons don't bring things into the nether

then perhaps a disorder chart would have the nether in the middle

[sullen dawn]

Yeh the maps are a matter of perspective

[rain cave]

it is their home after all

since the brokers in a roundabout way are part of the realm where the great cycle is most important

[sullen dawn]

Humans used to assume earth was the center of everything

It's natural to make that assumption

Life would probably have elun'ahir at the centre

[rain cave]

also taliesins mention of the dark heart looking like a cosmology chart in the final cinematic got me thinking

Xal has definetly been going around hitting targets of each force

[sullen dawn]

Doesn't the dark heart convert different magics to void?

[rain cave]

death, galakrond
arcane, dalaran
Beledar, light and/or shadow

[sullen dawn]

She's making a stew

[rain cave]

and the roots..

she's not gone there yet but

[sullen dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/carl-weathers-stew-gif-15364320

[rain cave]

OH

and also

sargeras's sword is a big part of the setup of this xpac

which is.. disorder

[uncut vault]

Well, it was purged of all that magic... by artifacts like Xal'atath haha

who knows if she still has all of that Dark Titan juice or not

[rain cave]

weren't a bunch of the artifacts canonically put into the dalaran vaults actually

[uncut vault]

Not explicitly, they're mostly just 'vaguely in the player character's bank unless the plot needs them not to be' lol

[tame kettle]

do you have to have are within to do delves

[pulsar minnow]

Delves are only on the continent of Khaz Algar which is only accessible with the War Within Expansion. So yes.

[ember blaze]

and meta for warlocks is too crazy? 🤔

[austere gazelle]

considering fel isnt a native force as it is but a mix and a " meeting of Light + Void turned wrong " , I don't even think there are native demons. There can even be demons that are not fel by nature ( like horned beasts belonging in the realm of life ) but that aren't called demon indeed. What is interesting is that both order and fel " corrupt " their users by turning them into something else than their " original nature "

[sleek solar]

Oh shit where does he say that??

[silent urchin]

I think its his annoyed voice lines

if you click him repeatedly

in the version from the harbinger quests in 10.2.5

https://www.wowhead.com/sound=246022/mon-locus-walker-pissed-01-246022

they don't seem to be in order there, sadly

oh apparently they've been there a little while longer, https://www.wowhead.com/npc=126773/locus-walker#comments:id=5482522 has them in order, from 10.0

[sleek solar]

Oh shietttttt

Thats so cool

[glass flicker]

I shall call him "Locust-Walker."

He has a pet locust he takes out for walkies.

[harsh mason]

Damn, The final phase on Ansurek will give a head start to the final phases of almost every final boss, not only of the raid tier, but of the entire expansion

[sullen dawn]

What do you mean

[austere gazelle]

it was from Legion - Antorus, in the Vindicaar. It was a question you could ask him ( I think... ? )

[rain cave]

it's his annoyed lines

[warm topaz]

i need them to update dragonhawks on Midnight

my blood elf need her new mount

i'm sure they will, the model is from TBC

[austere gazelle]

I hope they'll update the Warblades of Azzinoth...

[deep pawn]

Dragonhawks are probably all thats left

Mana wyrms were legion, lynxes in tww

[cobalt gulch]

so who is all showing up at the aniversary event?

[rain cave]

even though they can't fly I hope to see some amazing hawkstrider models as well

would also be cool if the ebon blade turn the undead in the scar on the void forces to support

[sleek solar]

That would be fuckin amazing!

I still love death knights

[austere gazelle]

I have the feeling that the ebon blade will receive a lot of evolution from the shadowlands with new units and support from Maldraxxus, a bit like what happened with the Forsaken (and the cleasing of Lordaeron and Undercity ) . After all, Arthas' was also the Jailer's fault and I think the shadowlands will try to mend and help the stuff Death did on its behalf on Azeroth in some degrees

[rain cave]

I think general sentiment is that the SL is like sealed off from us atm

ysera was only able to come through because malf took her place in a ritual

there might be a potential communion but idk, if they had any plans to bring SL lore back in they're probably minimized now 💀

[deep pawn]

She was a mortal soul bound to Ardenweald

Her rules are different than other death denizens

The night fae were in Amirdrassil and we know Bastion even let mortal souls spy

[worn crown]

Rider fo the Apocalypse Hero Talents for DK have Maw named passive abilities - it is like "hey remember SL? 😄

Blizz will bring Shadowlands lore back in due time

Just after WordSoul Saga is done, or perhaps a bit even during TLT

[uncut vault]

you never know, we could go the chocobo route of "who cares if this is physically possible, wings = flight" lol

[rain cave]

do we reckon they'll ever make us earn flying again?

[uncut vault]

at most, as an xpac gimmick for leveling

[rain cave]

I feel the area just outside silvermoon would be the place to do it if ever, even if it's just for a little while

as like an homage to silvermoon classic

and then when you unlock the flying you get to go above the treesand find new stuff in hidden areas

[uncut vault]

as much as I like having free access, there is a little bit lost in the exploration aspect by having no grounded phase

[rain cave]

if we ever get sucked into the dark heart as a xalatath mechanic

they better add some flying gameplay in there

flying around the remnants of dalaran collecting energy to nuke a boss in there would be very cool

[rain cave]

I get the feeling a bunch of old faces are going to appear in tlt

in a "oh god help the titans are closing in" sort of way

the imagery of illidan falling out of the sky burnt out to warn us of their coming is just too good not to use

bonus points if he's literally completely changed (wings torn/burnt up, his tattoos faded, etc.)

[deep pawn]

Honestly Blizzard should just let all mounts fly

The ghost/unicorn mounts already show that it doesn't really matter

[rain cave]

I feel like those mounts get away with it easier since they're longer

hawkstriders are pretty vertical so they might be a challenge to not look goofy

[deep pawn]

I like how ff14 doesn't care how dorky it may look

[rain cave]

I mean ff14's not reowned for how good it looks lmao

that game's art style really doesn't help how old it is xD

[deep pawn]

eh? I think it looks better than WoW in many ways

If Spirit of Eche'ro can fly, and rockets can dynamically fly, then the only thing stopping it is the devs worried it "looks bad" but I don't care

let all mounts fly

[austere gazelle]

Well the only mounts that shouldnt fly are the swimming one 😅

[ember blaze]

we have a flying fish

[austere gazelle]

Thats OK but I mean gameplay wise if you give flying to swimming mount you gotta give swimming abilities to all the mounts or else the swimming one will become more than useful and overused since they could be used in all kind of biome

[ember blaze]

it's not that serious

theyre just cars

[sleek solar]

Exactly, just waiting for most of the hate to be gone

[rain cave]

idk I just look at FF14 and go "this looks bland as hell". And the lighting engine is very outdated for the style they have from what I saw

like when I tried it I couldn't figure out what character I wanted to make since there's so little options and they all look like they're from toy story 1 💀

I can accept lower end graphics just felt like some part of the art style just wasn't working to me

[sleek solar]

I dont really care about the graphics, WoW just plays soooo much better than any other MMO

[rain cave]

tbh it's an issue I have with a lot of anime style games. The characters are stylized proportionally but then everything else is visually noisy and tries to look somewhat 'realistic' whilst also being stylized in the complete opposite way to the characters. It gets too visually noisy

[sleek solar]

WoW does rock the ambience and feel of each zone though

[rain cave]

I just pulled up a screenshot of ff to check and yeah nothing really pops. the armour is all extremely high visual noise and similar to eachother, and then their weirdly smooth characterless faces sit on top lmao

[rain cave]

real, WoW is so much more vivid

the art team in WoW are confident and very good at what they do

[sleek solar]

Very much agreed

Even Shadowlands, how bad it may have been, the zones were amazing and beautiful

[rain cave]

the maw was a bit bland but they were given a pretty tough sell for that one lmao

[sleek solar]

Except for the maw

Yes

[rain cave]

"hey make a grey zone that's meant to be barren and ugly"

"are you sure? it'll be barren and ugly."

like atleast they got what the concept was lmao

[sleek solar]

Its meant to be a shithole, and they nailed the fact that everyone hates it xD

[rain cave]

yup

design issue if anything lol

the maw could genuinely have been interesting if they actually leant in to the fact that every kind of soul is going there + the evil souls from other areas

could have been a desaturated rainbow instead of thaat pallid grey

[sleek solar]

Colors are fine, everything is dark and deprived of light and death everywhere

But the design is bad

[harsh mason]

I like Maw. I like its completely destroyed appearance and ruins, on which various citadels with spikes are built

[sleek solar]

The art is good, but design is very bad

How much do we know about Danath Trollbane and current Stromgarde?

Since he came to Khaz Algar aswell

And we know he is the leader ( does not show a King title)

This was Stromgarde in BfA, but wasn't it destroyed again by the Horde?

Would love to see more Kingdoms in the size of Stormwind

Maybe even more starting zones for Humans

[sleek solar]

Would also love to see Danath interact with Thoras

[warm topaz]

nothing to do with what are you talking about, but i miss Plunderstorm so much

[sleek solar]

Haha

I am so glad I got everything out of it

Title, pirate set

[warm topaz]

i loved the gameplay of it

[pulsar minnow]

Lore wise the alliance won Stromgarde so no it wasn’t destroyed

[warm topaz]

the feeling, the pace

the vibes too

[sleek solar]

Yeah I was mistaken, Horde attacked and held stromgarde for a short while, but alliance kicked them out

[rain cave]

if DH get a new hero spec I'd love to see some void powers

[sleek solar]

Pretty sure that wont be happening

[rain cave]

never know, midnight is elf focused. DH is an elf class and they're probably looking for stuff to do after legions defeat lmao

we don't know what they plan to do with new specs or hero talents in future xpacs

[sleek solar]

Blizz doesn't know DH exist

[rain cave]

it's because of how one note they are

if they're given an opportunity to expand their lore and fantasy I hope they take it

[sleek solar]

I think DK will get more content though

Since we're returning to Northrend

[rain cave]

DK will probably even get stuff in midnight

since there's been a documented interested relationship between void and death stuff

like DK's can't raise void creature and old gods have struggled to influence the undead I think

it would be very interesting if they tried to bring back class campaigns for midnight actually

since I think every class would have huge potential there specifically for midnight

[sleek solar]

That would be so fuckin cool

Too cool for blizz probs

But I really hope so

Demon Hunters are kinda useless right now lorewise

Would be cool to see them adapt

[pulsar minnow]

Um

Gorribal is in the planet and Illidan is coming back

I don’t think DH’s are useless..

[sleek solar]

We dont know when Illidan is coming back

Or know his role

Same with Sarg

[sleek solar]

Their sole purpose was fighting the demons of the BL

[rain cave]

paladins with bloodknights and looking at void/light relation
Priests similar but more xalatath aligned
mages trying to get the golems of silvermoon working again, and learning the intricacies of belf magic
warlocks exploring the void sides of their powers, and finding stray demons to join their fight
Hunters joining the rangers, get some windrunner story
shamans working potentially with a breakout group of amani trolls as well as blood elves to explore the natural elements of the forest
DK's exploring the scar and turning the feral undead against the void forces whilst reconciling with the elves
DH's reintegrating with their elven brother where they were scorned and trying to find new uses for their abilites, or new abilities entirely
Rogues with valeera, trying to sneak around getting intel on some ethereals potentially

there's a lot of class fantasy revolving around the stuff they have going they could explore

but we'll see

it's a LOT

people do complain that elves are polluting the class fantasy too much though. But if they do it as a way of starting a promise of doing it for other races I'd be on board

one thing I do hope we get in some flavour from all the cosmic stuff and focuses on magic types, especially combinations (sacred flame, shadowflame are the two big ones) is that we get some level of flavour for mixing elements as a system

even if it's just represented in things like hero talents

like if I could take my mage and inject shadow magic into their spells, or add arcane magic to a demon hunter

[deep pawn]

He's coming back or dead

The entire Pantheon is holding Sargeras imprisoned.

They're coming to Azeroth in The Last Titan, so either Sargeras is redeemed, or he's escaped.

[tropic trail]

I’m kinda curious what they are doing there 😂

[rain cave]

would be kinda metal if they just deconstructed him to figure out why he went wrong

we show up to their workshop and just see a giant sargeras being taken apart like a robot

just a random image that came to my brain but I don't think they'll do that

[sleek solar]

He most def is not dead

Would be dumb to kill such a major character off screen

[deep pawn]

Thus Illidan is coming back

[sleek solar]

Yes

I never said he wouldn't lol

I said we dont know when

Could be next patch, could be patch after that, could be during midnight, could be during TLT

[rain cave]

I get the feeling it'll be end of midnight or prepatch of tlt

[deep pawn]

extended again!

[rain cave]

he's positioned pretty well to be the herald even if he's like beaten and bruised by them

if he comes back to us and falls from the sky like xera's core back in legion that parallel is hilarious

[sleek solar]

Wouldn't surprise me if he will be a big reveal

[rain cave]

it's just the exact same reveal trailer from legion just colour shifted to titan colours

[sleek solar]

Hopefully cinematic material

[pulsar minnow]

The last Titan.

Metzen already confirmed it basically

And his role sure as hell won’t be working with the titans

[sleek solar]

Where?

[pulsar minnow]

His loyalty is to this planet

Metzen said it in a wowcast

[rain cave]

yup

[pulsar minnow]

https://youtu.be/SZjsyTS_lfk?si=3_aZxq-cv31mVmjm

[rain cave]

that's why I think when he reappears he'll be arriving to warn us

unless the titans just have him tied up somewhere

[silent urchin]

He's currently hanging out with the titans so if anything happens to them it makes some sense he returns

[sleek solar]

Afaik he only teased Illidans return

[pulsar minnow]

Was that not what you asked

[sleek solar]

No, it was the when

xD

I know Illidan will return

Does Illidan even have haters xD

[pulsar minnow]

The last Titan

He also says that in the video

I think it’s pretty clear even without his direct confirmation

[sleek solar]

Oh I missed that

[austere gazelle]

there are still demon, plus, they can hunt other creatures, we have void abilities, Illidan is somehow tied to a light prophecy, we will have some light and Shadow target soon I guess.

What bother me the most is we can't flight yet with our wings like illidan though xD

[rain cave]

I think the player demonhunters aren't as far into their demon stuff as illidan was

like our normal forms don't have whooves

ig the lore explanation would be that their wings aren't as fully formed or they aren't as used to it

they can only sustain their full metamorphosis form for a lil bit mechanically, you could argue the wings are an extension of that lmao

[sleek solar]

Permanent metamorphosis option pls

[austere gazelle]

we can use it to glide all the time so I don't think their will be a lore relevance here. We need to fly like the dracthyr. Illidan could, we should, gameplay wise xD

[rain cave]

I agree that DH getting flying would be cool

but the gliding wings don't last forever so you could argue my point still stands if they wanted to use it lmao

[sleek solar]

Illidan is not really comparable

He is way more demon like

[rain cave]

have you seen that mans horns

sheesh

[sleek solar]

You can like his feet, because he doesn't have feet

He has hooves

[deep pawn]

All player dh have demon souls

[sleek solar]

All DH have demon souls lol

Thats the whole point

Player DH have an immortal demon soul like Illidan

This became his normal self

Meanwhile we still look like our former selves, but with a few changes

[deep pawn]

I disagree

The whole point of the demon soul is you no longer are part of the cycle and are bound to the twisting nether as demons

Most demon hunters do not have demon souls.

[austere gazelle]

DH players are exception within Illidari, they have an immortal demon soul, like Illidan, meaning they are tied to the Twisting nether and regenerate there instead of SL ( Lol at lore )
So they are powerful Demon hunter , and they should be able to fly 😄

[sleek solar]

Uhh ok

You avoid the point lol

Also maybe check your eyes if you think Illidan and the player DH looks the same xD

[deep pawn]

They have demonic souls

It's clearly pointed out in the starting zone

Most demon hunters still have mortal souls

[sleek solar]

Yet Illidan is still more demon than the player DK

Its like he is in permanent metamorphosis

He also have way bigger wings

[deep pawn]

Maybe we're arguing different points? All player dh are demons to large extents, not all dh are demons.

[sleek solar]

Yeah I think we are arguing about different points xD

[ember blaze]

let dh players fly

[sleek solar]

Give mages the bird form

[rain cave]

New round of class mounts for skyriding

Mages get bird form

Warriors get picked up by someone else

[hazy kettle]

Warriors get "Val'kyr Neck Grab"

[sleek solar]

Vrykul playable race pls

Let me be a giant viking

[rain cave]

they just scale up the human models and call it a day

the monkeys paw finger curls

[sleek solar]

xD

[tropic trail]

Yes, haha 😂

[rain cave]

it is interesting since I wonder what happens at blizz when they go "lets make this race a key part of the expansion" but then decide not to make them playable

especially nowadays

especially since I'm pretty sure that in some way every threat we've faced has had some splinter group of said threat help us

in recent memory at least

they do put a lot of effort into some of the npc races lmao

[sleek solar]

Well they probably dont want to make another Dracthyr fiasco

[rain cave]

it is interesting how they chose dracthyr over other options

like they went through the ffort to make something new

instead of just giving people draconids like they knew people wanted

[sleek solar]

I like dracthyr more than Drakonids tbh, just because of the wings and 4 limbs xD

[rain cave]

draconids are the 4 limbed big ones no?

[sleek solar]

Would have been cool to be a full blown dragon, but given their size I understand why thats not possible

[sleek solar]

Oh I thought those were the 4 legs ones

[rain cave]

tbf if they went with the same style and class as evoker they could have done dragons

just instead of switching into dracthyr form you just turn into dragon form

[sleek solar]

Yeah but dragons are way bigger

[rain cave]

tauren with avatar mountain thane

pretty big

[sleek solar]

Hahha true

[rain cave]

if they made a dragon around that size could be fine

even if it's like a younger dragon

[sleek solar]

Or visage form for inside, dragon form for outside

[rain cave]

ig they just wanted something lower key

but yeah it's just funny they went "we want a dragon race" and instead of giving actual dragons or draconids they went for new things

[sleek solar]

Yup lol

Same with high elves xD

[rain cave]

not a critique or a praise just interesting how they went for the more work ig

[sleek solar]

High elf population is too low, so they poop Void elfs out, which have even lower population

( I love void elves though)

[rain cave]

tbf I think they can go further with void elves

specifically on the void part

like imagine they had more visceral mutations from the void, so their gradient goes from high elf to pretty messed up

[sleek solar]

Yeah

I hoped for more horror customization, instead of just hntai tentacles

Void form looks cool, could have been a skin option

Maybe explode into a void horror instead as a racial

[rain cave]

lmao now imagining they got a fear as a racial instead of their lil teleport

[sleek solar]

Hahahaha

I have never ever used the teleport

[rain cave]

it's awkward to use in a lot of gameplay since it's not an immediate blink and takes a gcd

[sleek solar]

Exactly lol

[rain cave]

so you have to throw it out before a mechanic, sacrificing GCD in order to teleport to it during or after the mechanic but like, everything is designed to be walkable or whatever with class mechanics anyway

and a lot of void elves tend to be mages as well

[sleek solar]

Doesn't it have a very short range aswell?

[rain cave]

medium range I'd say

[sullen dawn]

Yeh dracthyr are lame af

[rain cave]

they're not lame per se

they're just not really what people wanted from something draconic

[sullen dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-she-tirned-me-into-a-newt-gif-14862319

[sleek solar]

Yup

I still have one because I really like the idea behind it

[deep pawn]

I like Dracthyr

[uncut vault]

Its pretty invaluable in PvP, just not to the same degree as the absurd instant power of shadowmeld or passive value of hardened

if you look at most rankings, void elves are usually a solid fourth place, behind night elves, orcs, and gnomes

[ember blaze]

kultirans

[ember blaze]

what lets khadgar turn into a bird anyways?

[proper palm]

My dream
(Tbh, i love Kultiran in game, but they have 3 custom lmao...)

[upper pasture]

Being a mage?

[ember blaze]

what people really wanted was a human/elf model with horns and a tail, that's it

which they could do for any new race and people would be happy

players dont actually want unique monster models

[rain cave]

guardian stuff I think

but also just general magic ig

[ember blaze]

so shapeshifting isnt entirely a druid thing? 🤔

[rain cave]

yeah they do

[ember blaze]

nah they dont

when the majority play humans and elves, they dont

[rain cave]

so why was earthen a let down and people want ascended nerubians?

[upper pasture]

I think hunters enjoy getting new pets every patch/expansion

[ember blaze]

earthen are ugly stone dwarves, theyre not humans or elves

[upper pasture]

NPC/PC things

[ember blaze]

exception to monster people like are cute ones like vulpera, or yuumi from league

[rain cave]

ah, so your claiming things based on your personal opinion

:3

[ember blaze]

otherwise if theyre introducing say a cat race... a human or elf model, with just cat ears and a tail would be popular

an actual cat monster nobody would play