beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

Oh that is gonna be the 2025 roadmap

So probably in October after 11.0.5 drops they'll announce 11.0.7, 11.1, and the roadmap for the rest of next year

11.1 is likely February

Gamescom should announce the anniversary event

[silent urchin]

She mentioned it, but nothing really specific. Just in game stuff in october and maybe some other bits

[deep pawn]

I am a tad disappointed but I expected every part of this saga to only have 3 raids

[zealous sedge]

You mean 3 raids per xpac?

[upper pasture]

that's what he's suspecting although it's just speculation at this point. however both SLs and DF were both 3 raid expansions

[zealous sedge]

Word. Yeah i don’t really care how many raid tiers we get as long as it’s not less. Crazy hot take here as long as I get a good story and engaging gameplay I’m cool with whatever they end up doing for the Saga

[granite flame]

I'm just glad the story is being plotted in advance and I hope this lowers all the raids and stories dropped midway thru the expansion

[zealous sedge]

Anyways I can’t believe we’re like 48ish hours away from early access launch

[ember blaze]

the problem is the cost of expansions not getting any cheaper, but less content

[sullen dawn]

Sounds like the direct will be in December

Roadmaps for following year are always in December

The event is in late October and they don't describe that as "towards the end of the year" but they do with the direct

[deep pawn]

They can't wait that long since 11.1 is gonna be February and on the ptr possibly in December

[sullen dawn]

I don't think so

11.0.7 will probably be early jan

Or late dec

PTR will hit early jan

For 11.1

March release

Late march

[deep pawn]

11.0.5 is in October. 8 weeks after that is mid December. 4-6 weeks after that is early February

[sullen dawn]

5+36 said the even is at end of October

So 11.0.7 would be at the end of December, but since it's Christmas they could wait

Either way I don't think they'll put the ptr up a few days before Xmas

Prolly super early jan

[deep pawn]

This season will likely be 5 months only

[sullen dawn]

Maybe if you're not listening to what they're saying you would think that

I'm going by blizzards words, not headcanon

[deep pawn]

I'm going off the fact the anniversary patch is already encrypted

[sullen dawn]

That's nice

They literally gave a release time for it today

Late/the end of October

[deep pawn]

And where the hell did I say anything different? I've said October the entire time. 8 weeks from now.

[sullen dawn]

Then "at the end of the year" we'll get the direct

Roadmap for 2025 will come december, November at earliest

[deep pawn]

8 weeks after that is 11.0.7, 4-6 after that is 11.1

[sullen dawn]

11.1 would be 8 weeks after 11.0.7

Anyway that's irrelevant to what we were discussing

Which was when the direct/roadmap would come

Which is at the end of the year

[deep pawn]

0.7 patches were all shorter than that in df

[sullen dawn]

Can we just focus on the only thing I was initially disagreeing with

Which was that you said "in October after the event they'll have the direct and announce th Roadmap for next year"

The soonest that will happen is mid November, and I expect December (as usual for yearly roadmaps)

Maybe they coincide it with wow anniversary date in Nov

[deep pawn]

Unless they plan to go slower, and I don't think they are, they can't wait til January

[austere gazelle]

Small reports numbers, but I caught something fishy and useful

[silent urchin]

You submitted 179 report(s), leading to the discovery of 37 bug(s), 40 of which were previously undiscovered! I think I've found another bug

[deep pawn]

hmm, I wasn't super active

You submitted 46 report(s), leading to the discovery of 8 bug(s), 2 of which were previously undiscovered!

a fair number of my reports were feedback related though

but I stopped playing beta when Dawntrail came out.

[ember blaze]

i wanna dream with you

New support spec announcement for sure

[gloomy tangle]

75/23/6 here

[deep pawn]

pretty big bug with timerunner chars

they apparently don't have any crest costs right now

[dense plover]

that doesnt make sense

[deep pawn]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/360571569791303681/1275596781970788398/image.png?ex=66c67794&is=66c52614&hm=a357c5cfe3b883849bda49b69c6bb4b3eead32cca68ef28bd222c91e236c89d5&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

I'll test myself in a bit I guess, gotta get 2 bullions lol

[upper pasture]

yeah, it's prolly cause the timewalking gear was capped at 556 no?

or remix gear

[deep pawn]

oh, might be related to that

[upper pasture]

it is likely 100% related to that since it would think we should have "free" upgrades

since we already had something higher than what can currently be obtained. sad that it's hella flightstones tho

[deep pawn]

well in that case I won't get any value cause I didn't grind the bronze haha

also explains why trinkets and jewelry aren't free

[upper pasture]

yeah if you didn't upgrade your remix gear you won't have the character flagged for the "free" upgrades but either way i doubt anyone is really gonna farm the flightstones to upgrade all this gear that's about to be replaced

yup they stopped at 376 or whatever

[dense plover]

sounds like a bug overall though

dont exploit it

[upper pasture]

oh for sure. it's a bug

[dense plover]

theyll probably revert or even ban people who over exploit

[upper pasture]

the thing is you still need to farm the flightstones and there's really no shortcut there

[deep pawn]

I doubt they'll care, at best it's some extra weapon appearances

for how much the bronze grind was I say go for it

[ember blaze]

these happened to stay 🤔

[gloomy tangle]

Weird I had nothing but dinosaur bones and some other misc stuff. No scrolls etc

2000g and a pat on the back

[upper pasture]

Kinda sad they didn’t give us a outro to the timewalking campaign and the infinites.

[dense plover]

what would their be to outro? if anything it might be the kind of thing where the next time the infinites show up theyll tie it back

but playing their hand now might be a mistake since it boxes them in to future specifics

[upper pasture]

Idk? Just a few voice lines of us “helping” them or something. Sure beats a text box saying “timerunning is over”

[ember blaze]

idk feels so unnecessary

[upper pasture]

Eh, to each their own. I like storytelling even if it’s something as small as a few voicelines

[dense plover]

Another one for the collection guys

89 undiscovered bugs and a bunch of my reports were feedback or repeats because it still wasn’t solved

I think this is reasonable

[austere gazelle]

ahah nice 😄

[austere gazelle]

you had better chance and timeframe of discovering undiscovered bug during alpha though :p

I think I had time to fully test the beta for one week and it was just leveling campaign though, didnt touch much the end game content due to busy schedule 😦

[austere gazelle]

Oh, I think I might have find what could happen.

The Crystal in hallowfall needs to be infused by void, or by light, to turn.

Right now, the Arathi infuse it with light again once it turns to void.

1- Xal might want to turn it to void after having stored a massive void energy into the dark heart and will infuse those void energies into the crystal
2- She'll rip open the mountain behind Khaz Algar to make this crystal float into Azeroth's skies like a false sun , radiating void energy and allowing void minions to pass into Azeroth to invade.
3- To turn it back into light, we will need a immense source of Light power to infuse the crystal : The Sunwell. Explaining why we are defending the sunwell in Midnight and why the void want to erase it.

[sullen dawn]

Yeh and besides it's not a competition. No one is impressed by identified bug numbers :p

[silent urchin]

I don't think the crystal itself is being corrupted. I think it's a relatively recent addition to whatevers going on below, and it turning void is either reacting to, or trying to control things that are happening to azeroth itself. I'm guessing the sword damaged something, and let some of the black blood/void in. The crystal may be doing something to counter that.

But in general, the crystal is not the thing everyones here for. It's representing the light trying to claim whatever the thing actually is

[proper scarab]

You deserve an achiev or a title. The Bugslayer.

[scarlet ridge]

Shame fishing is still bricked, rip

[rose escarp]

I do hope it does something to lean into how Naaru probably aren't "Core Light"-beings, but rather just primarily being agents of the Light instead. That is, something to explain the "Light ↔️ Void" cycle.

[dense plover]

Might be fixed on live. It’ll be fixed don’t worry

[scarlet ridge]

well I've submitted a bug repor every day for the past 3 weeks so fingers crossed, I want to do the derby on Saturday

[dense plover]

That’s a lot of my reports too. Reporting the same bugs each new build until they fixed them

But they did fix them

Guys I’m just getting to metzens interview, but he said the sword is a 13.X thing and “you are not prepared”. Are we already bringing back illidan?

[silent urchin]

Given 13 is about the titans, and illidan is currently hanging out with them, that doesn't seem surprising

[upper lantern]

Yep I'm guessing Illidan and Sargeras are both coming back

[silent urchin]

But I also suspect metzen wasn't being entirely honest with everything he said about the future plot

[dense plover]

Of course

But I think he was telling the truth about the sword resolution

They don’t want people asking “when are we gonna deal with the sword” over and over again

[tropic trail]

It’s funny in the announcement cinematic it shows how planet shell is literally breaking apart 🤔

[signal bone]

will we be able to unlock earthen and level them via the prepatch event before next week?

[sullen dawn]

think so

[sleek solar]

Well early acces starts in like 1 or 2 days

[signal bone]

well I wouldn't be surprised if the max level campaign is time gated for the first reset

[austere gazelle]

Considering the titans are holding sargeras prisoner, and that they will move toward Azeroth in the last titans, its not a surprise it'll involve illidan and Sargeras too, it was even obvious

[austere gazelle]

not sure it means something about Azeroth's shell tbh

[sleek solar]

I think its meant to be a parallel to what happened to Argus

[rain cave]

Azeroth been through a lot man

part of me hopes that whenever we do meet her more face to face that she isn't the same big boomy voiced entity we've seen before in other similar things like the titans

she's been through so much they could definetly do a cool story arc of us just finding her basically crying in her corner abused

[little hound]

I wonder what Elune's physical body will look like

[rain cave]

I'd hazard a guess that she's like proto night elf asethetic, with some kind of naaru imagery mixed in

[little hound]

She strikes me as an elegant being, mothering and caring for the beings around her.

[rain cave]

I've pitched the idea that she's sort of the ultimate being of the orderly 3 (Order/Arcane, Light, death)

[little hound]

Most (If not all) her descriptions claim her to be pale / very whiteish dressed.

[rain cave]

since we've seen those 3 from her aspects

and if you look at how the powers are layed out, even though we have order/disorder, the others also can be categorized like that as well

life is chaotic, death is orderly

light is orderly, void/shadow is chaotic

and it seems like too much of a coincidence that those also line up as inverted triangles on the titans/chronicle cosmolgy chart

and whilst yes Elune is hinted to be in the life domain atm, we also know that the shadowlands were effectively ordered, and there are zereths for all the other cosmologies. So wouldn't surprise me if Elune is effectively a representative of Order in life, she basically married into it as a medieval style political union

since she's tied closely to life magic, but we don't really see her magics in the same school. Her specific aesthetic isn't green or plantlike

[little hound]

I hate the Titans.

Or more accurately: I hate Odyn and Aman'thul.

[rain cave]

you could even argue that she is literally a passive orderer of everything. She produces light from shadow (the moon), She produces Death from life (Night warriors, and her general sentiment not to involve herself with mortal conflicts), and she produces Order from Disorder (she trends natural disorder towards her magics, mutates people towards her aesthetic). The fact that she is a constant throughout multiple if not all planets could also be seen as an argument for ordering disorder, since she is a constant in the chaos of reality

Elunes relations to other things is probably the most intriguing part of her

I don't think we have any other character that has a specific focus on how their powers relate to other powers in this way

[long cypress]

I hope we never get Elune as a physical character honestly. :/ I think part of what makes her such a wonderful diety is the mysticism that surrounds her. Imo, pulling the shroud off her will destroy so much of that.

[hazy kettle]

There's at least one thing wrong with this

[rain cave]

tbh I feel elune wouldn't even have a body

an avatar? Sure

but if we do meet her true form I'd expect that mf to take up a whole room and not really be humanoid

[long cypress]

Same. I wouldn't be upset if her physical form is just

The Moon.

[austere gazelle]

I'd go further, she's a primal force from which everything is born, aka the " Seventh " but she is a problem because she can dream lucid dream and sometime those dream can be...very dangerous

[dense plover]

I think you can’t complete the earthen unlock until you finish the endgame campaign and I think that requires the raid

Since story mode exists, everyone can do that part of the story now

[austere gazelle]

its possible, after all Her and the winter queen where in the reality before the Shadowlands and the Life plane were constructed by the First Ones, thus, the Winter queen had to sacrifice her body to enter the construct which was made for her into the shadowlands. Maybe its the same process for Elune when she went into the life plane

[uncut vault]

Especially since it’s so explicitly framed as the start of the saga in the cinematic, and so far TWW only really mentions the sword once in passing lol

Setting the expectation for when to anticipate answers is good, otherwise we’d be leaving TWW very confused

[austere gazelle]

Well the sword is mentionned in a crucial context

We know the Hallowfall crystal started to go voidy the day Sargeras thrusted it into Azeroth

[glass flicker]

What sword? :o

There's no war in Ba Sing Se
There's no sword in Silithus.

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1826353245863756270

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft) on X

Every Warcraft player has a story to share.

Get yours at https://t.co/BfhzdWn0Tm

#WarcraftStory

Twitter · Aug 21, 2024, 8:18 PM

[tropic trail]

Haha it’s kinda slow 😂

[zealous sedge]

its crashed for me 1 times i gave up

[tropic trail]

My fate went with shadows or something like that 🤣

[opal storm]

Same

[austere gazelle]

Its badly done, it spam request and sounds like a DDOS simulator

[deep pawn]

apparently it eats up your own processing power

I wanna see but it's failing

I'll try later

cool that is uses wowhead's model viewer

[austere gazelle]

now it explains everything

I hope it's not a rickroll video at the end

[deep pawn]

wowhead has a couple examples

[austere gazelle]

oh.

[silent urchin]

it's not a huge change tbh, tailors already got a huge boost in dragonflight

[ember blaze]

so youll be able to mass farm mats in early access? 🤔

[dense plover]

'mass farm' in heavy quotes

youll be doing that instead of other stuff

and a lot of mats are level-locked

where if you arent a certain level, stuff just wont drop at all

even if you have the skill

or at least it has an extremely low drop rate

[clear apex]

Skinning is always fun at the start 8)

Df started and i got max skinning within a couple hours (not the skill trees though)

[ember blaze]

okay, but i doubt anyone is taking a week to get to 80

[clear apex]

Well no. Likely not bc they give enough exp but in 3 days or less,...

[ember blaze]

the point is if you just get to level things like professions as well as farm mats in early access

[clear apex]

There's still locked stuff during EA though

[ember blaze]

yeah but professions arent, yeah?

[clear apex]

No dailies so that would hinder you some

[ember blaze]

im already seeing vids of cheesing the limited currency to max

[dense plover]

what currency?

[ember blaze]

acuity

[dense plover]

theres a limit

hard weekly limit

it isnt enabled on beta

[clear apex]

It's not good to fudge with stuff like that, blizzard can penalize you

[ember blaze]

right but im seeing that you arent intended to get max so fast

[dense plover]

YOU LITERALLY CANT GET MAX

you can only get like 100 or 200 the first week at all

once you earn that much you stop earning more

until next week

then i think it goes to 250 or 300?

[ember blaze]

ok

[dense plover]

everyone who plays professions during the first week will reach max acuity

or should

[ember blaze]

one thing they seem to have kept assuming nothing changes is shuffling professions

[dense plover]

you mean for xp?

pretty sure they DID fix that

[ember blaze]

and doing that got you a lot of artisan mettle and reputation that other people who dont do it will be hard locked weeks to

[dense plover]

artisans mettle is just gone

[clear apex]

Oh thank goddess

[dense plover]

acuity is character bound, not profession bound

[ember blaze]

right but im saying thats how it worked for that

[dense plover]

acuity is a currency, not an item

its like crests

its just hidden from the currency tab

[ember blaze]

right but can you still shuffle to get more dailies for rep

[dense plover]

but you cant for this

[dense plover]

actually not sure thats true either

i think theres just a weekly cap on the profession rep stuff

and its accountwide

so you could profession shuffle

[clear apex]

I was about to ask

[dense plover]

or you could use multiple characters

[clear apex]

But you answered

[dense plover]

rep quest rewards are almost entirely warbound

if not 100%

theyve explicitly stated they want them all warbound

so if there are some that were missed, thats an exploit

thats how you get banned

[ember blaze]

so say i do 2 for 2 professions on my main, ill get 0 rep doing that on an alt?

[clear apex]

If you're capped, yes

[dense plover]

i dont think the available profession quests are the same

but yeah its based on a weekly cap

so you could do the amount - however many it is - and then hit the cap

but if im new, and i wait a week, ill have more quests to do before i hit the same cap

i do not think we have the DF profession weeklies though

afaict those are just gone

some of the rep factions have profession quests now

and you can choose which of those to do, but you can only do one per faction per week I think?

assuming all of the factions have them - i didnt get too far into testing that

[clear apex]

All i know is they still have crafting weeklies iirc

[ember blaze]

maybe i should have played the beta

[dense plover]

there are nearly no advantages early access gives beyond starting early, hitting max level sooner, and gearing up a bit sooner

[clear apex]

Yup

[dense plover]

since the gear cap still doesnt increase until after the first big reset, everyone is going to be on equal footing

MAYBE early access players will be a tiny bit wealthier thanks to the people who dont want to gathert stuff

but not by a ton

[ember blaze]

those legion bikes we never got, Legion remix rewards perhaps

[dense plover]

trading post still

legion remix wont be until the end of TWW at the earliest

[deep pawn]

not even that, I don't think heroic dungeons start til Tuesday

[dense plover]

yep

554 ilvl seems to be the max?

[zealous sedge]

seems so

[dense plover]

maybe 571 from delves?

not much higher tbh considering how high the ilvl will be for S1

[zealous sedge]

agreed. it will be pretty negligible by the time we hit September 10. All we can do until then is Heroic dungeons and LFR. I was under the impression normal raid was open on launch

oh wait not even that LFR wing one opens on the 10th as well lol

[dense plover]

theyre intentionally providing time for people to 'catch up' so everyone is on the same level

[zealous sedge]

oh yeah i actually love it. I don't want to have to rush through it

i actually want to read quest text and get the full experience haha

[dense plover]

thats why i installed DialogueUI

[zealous sedge]

i have to look into that. I use Immersion

[subtle oar]

I prefer Immersion still. DialogueUI still does the big wall of text, just with fancier parchment texture

Immersion takes the quest text and breaks it into bite size digestible portions using the talking head Dialogue box to convey the NPC is talking to you.

It's still far better, especially for neurodivergent people who struggle with reading

[sullen dawn]

Yeh immersion is better

Especially for someone like me who plays on a TV with a controller

[hazy kettle]

4 hours-ish!

[ember blaze]

until servers crash and burn

[tropic trail]

Hype 😻

[hazy kettle]

Hype for server fire!

[clear apex]

The last couple expac launches were fine

[upper pasture]

yup! live launches are pretty stable ngl

[clear apex]

Df worked well, aside from the awful idea of having everyone in one spot to get on the boat/airship

[zealous sedge]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the opening sequence is like a scenario as in it is instanced?

[silent urchin]

it was not instanced on ptr

[zealous sedge]

Ah ok good to know

[silent urchin]

felt reasonable though, not too crowded

[zealous sedge]

That’s good. Probably just a lot more shards activated during

[silent urchin]

once arriving in dorn it seemed a bit more chaotic, but the shards there are intended for the entire zone, I guess

[zealous sedge]

Man I’m so pumped it’s been a looooong time since I’ve been here for a launch day

[clear apex]

It phases

You'll see people pop in or disappear depending on what part of the quest

[ember blaze]

i could barely move and do quests in DF launch

took a few hours till things felt good

oh and i was also stuck in queue

[thin warren]

poor queue

i hope it goes smoothly (except maybe some lag) and not like you do the dalaran-event and miss half a cinematic or don't see an npc or things like that

[deep pawn]

DF launch depended on server size

[silent urchin]

DF launch had that encryption bug that caused so many issues for the first few hours

[deep pawn]

On Illidan or Stormrage? Couldn't play for hours

[sleek solar]

On Draenor I had 0 problems

[warm topaz]

really cool!

[tropic trail]

Of course she is smug. She scammed each player out of at least 40 euros

Haha 😂

[deep pawn]

I got a lot out of that money

[warm topaz]

they did all in making Xal the main focus to promote the expansion

[austere gazelle]

warmode is not a thing anymore btw ?

Oh ok, I was looking for it in the pvp tab but it's in the talent tab...

which is dumb

[hollow tundra]

what happened to war mode?

[pulsar minnow]

wow anduin's cinematic model is sooooo good

[tropic trail]

Man these in game cinematics 😻

Finally normal cinematics!

[zealous sedge]

opening sequence was 10/10

i love not feeling rushed

[tropic trail]

She uses that black heart to absorb magic and then she blows things up 😱

[zealous sedge]

poor Khadgar. i think he gone gone

[tropic trail]

She didn’t blow up the whole planet yet cause she didn’t absorb enough power

[zealous sedge]

you think thats her goal? to blow up the whole planet?

[tropic trail]

Yeah he is dead 100%

[unreal garnet]

i love smart charactrers making shit decisions for muh plot

[tropic trail]

Yea planet will be done supernova if that device we not steal from her

[zealous sedge]

the Drenden point was a little silly

but they had to make it tie in a little

so i get it

[lone mantle]

No mortal can help, not now. Cards crush us at will.

[zealous sedge]

If you stand under the big hammer in the blacksmithing area of Dornogal you die, but get an achievement

[deep pawn]

hah, got stuck in a tree and got warden'd

[hazy kettle]

Until I see a better explanation as to why Xalatath is collecting people like Pokémon, I'm betting my arse on it's to use them as a disguise / mind-control them. e.e

Also, as I predicted, the reveal of Drenden felt... piss-poor, due to the character having been dead since Wacraft 3's happenings / gone since then.

everything else though? Damn, good intro. 👀

[solar birch]

Is khadgar dead dead?

[hazy kettle]

dead dead (at the moment)

Man got disenchanted 2, electric boogalooo

[solar birch]

Too funny 🤣

Bruh got void bombed

[hazy kettle]

But ey, unlike Varian, we didn't see it in that sense.

[solar birch]

Shit wizard gonna shit wizard

😄

[hazy kettle]

The others also remark on how they haven't seen him - and since we don't get an option to tell them "Khadgar... has died", we don't know either in-character.

[zealous sedge]

i know he dead, but part of me wishes he is still out there in the void

[hazy kettle]

Oh, same.

I don't really understand / sympathise with the hate.

... But man do I dislike the Drenden-spin.

[solar birch]

Maybe sylvanas will find him in the maw

[hazy kettle]

"Oh woe is me, we got betrayed by a character from Warcraft 3 Era who was supposedly dead / missing all this time! WOE IS ME, WHO COULD'VE SEEN THIS COMMING"

[zealous sedge]

I think the Drenden thing is fine really. Im trying to think about the casual player whos not super invsted in the lore, especially new players.

for all they know he was just another mage

[solar birch]

No idea who drended is

[hazy kettle]

Nghhhhhhhh yesn't. Even with that in mind, there's a point (where you see him in the background) where it's mentioned that he hasn't been seen since the Siege on Dalaran by the Scourge.

[solar birch]

And I've played all the warcrafts and read some books

[hazy kettle]

Like, even for a casual player, that has to ring alarm bells.

On top of which, with everything going on... it's hard for me to apply suspension of disbelief here and go "oh, nah, I understand the council-" MY FELLOW MAGES, he just appeared out of nowhere after decades of being missing while we're dealing with the next world-ending threat! VERY likely, sure, totally believable. <-<

And he gives us a wand to "strengthen the magical wards of Dalaran" AND HE GETS TO BE AN ARCHMAGE? WHAT A SICK JOKE

[solar birch]

I don't think you can over think a wow plot

Like, it's all silly

Just go with it

[hazy kettle]

HE DEFICATED THROUGH A SUNROOF!

[hazy kettle]

Hard disagree

[zealous sedge]

i mean, does it though? like no one outside of people that talk about wow in discord or reddit would actually care

[solar birch]

@zealous sedge basically

[hazy kettle]

Everything else so far is fine by me, just Drenden being the pull is... is so weird.

[solar birch]

Drenden evil is awesome

[clear apex]

guessing EA stuff also goes here, right?

[zealous sedge]

i feel you, as someone that has a minor affection for wow lore dating back to WC3. But to be honest, i didnt know who Drenden was until he was mentioned in this dicord

[clear apex]

I loved the cinematics and how theyd left stuff out from the beta stuff (or at least i didnt see some of this)

[solar birch]

Ya it's good

[clear apex]

that stuff between khadgar and Xal

[zealous sedge]

i cant wait to see all the other cinematics in the zone

[solar birch]

Everyone put a skull in chat for khadgar

💀

[zealous sedge]

im taking it so slow man, i did a dragon race in dornogal, did some fishing and profession stuff

some side quests

[hazy kettle]

And I respect that, to each their own when it comes to this - I'm saying it's an asspull because knowledge of the lore or not, it's incredibly sketchy to just go "sure, why not, we can use all the help" when you have somebody returning out of nowhere after such a long time of abscence.

Especially when they supposedly died in the Siege of Dalaran.

[solar birch]

Which dalaran 😆

[hazy kettle]

That's not just horrible for players who notice it who KNOW that it is an asspull, it's also horrible inconsistency in regards to the lore of the game itself. It's the entire spiel of "Khadgar is a wise magician" who suddenly doesn't have the slightest of doubts at such suspicious circumstances. oO

[hazy kettle]

Scourge attacking Dalaran, WC3.

[solar birch]

Khadgar has always been a mid wizard

[hazy kettle]

Legion Dalaran had an NPC who was a demon in secret, several of 'em actually, and you got to know that as a Warlock for a very nice reason: You saw their corpse (and the resurected skeleton mage from it) during one of the Artifact Quests.

[zealous sedge]

i agree with you totally, yes definitely a plot hole as to why they would trust someone when they know about the harbinger. But also Xal is incredibly powerful, who knows how easy it was for her to manipulate them, too bad it was just kind shoved in without any real explanation

[hazy kettle]

That's all I'm trying to say, yet it's somehow so controversial / weird for others to understand. It's an asspull - I agree something like it had to be done, I disagree that this was the right move, that's all.

[tropic trail]

How and when she wiped out whole mage council

[clear apex]

oh yeah i need to find the fishing trainer

Im going slow as well, wanted to listen to npc dialogue, stay a while and listen stuff, quest text

[tropic trail]

All of them are dead whole Kirin Tor

[hazy kettle]

They did somewhat explain it away with Xal' taunting Alleria not noticing her, at all, which is hilarious - and equally frustrating to me, because it points to just how powerful she is and how ridiculous it is nobody got suspicious of Drenden (not the player, the Council, Alleria, etc.)

Anywho, I enjoyed the rest so far, it's the only thing I'm unhappy with.

[tropic trail]

Yea plot is good

[zealous sedge]

yeah i wouldnt say your take is controversial or weird. Its correct. I do think Blizz looks at it like the story is for the average player at the end of the day, and they came to the conclusion that this made the most sense. I guess even if the "player" knows its fishy, that makes the player feel like the real champion, the person thats smarter than everyone else in the room. Which is why the characters rely on us so much.

[hazy kettle]

Cinematics are S Tier, Plot is good otherwise (solid A for me), there are some minute inconsistencies (as explained above and others) but that's not a big issue for me.

[zealous sedge]

Also btw people are already fnishing the main campaign as seen in general chat in game? theres no way

[hazy kettle]

That... is a fairly solid take on why they might write it, ye, very good point. I'm unhappy with that idea (aka. if Blizz really thought like that), since it dumbs the NPCs, but... that could make sense.

[hazy kettle]

It's not that long. o:

[zealous sedge]

ive heard it isnt that look but only two hours? haha but there are a bunch of sidequests so thats cool

[hazy kettle]

Prolly also people just spaming through, like not reading quests etc.

Speed leveling

[zealous sedge]

haha yeah i agree i feel like i was really stretching with that take, im not a huge fan of it. but it kinda makes sense. It wouldve been funny to have a dialogue option with Alleria where the player said "yeah, i couldve told you Drenden was not the guy"

[zealous sedge]

true

[solar birch]

I'm reading the quests

Always do at first

Then it turns into skimming

[zealous sedge]

yeah i have to remind myself to slow down

so used to just click click click

[hazy kettle]

It would prolly be horrible for most people - but, agreed, for me that would at least point to how Ogba said earlier, don't take it too serious since it's meant to be silly.

[zealous sedge]

true. i will say Xal is a savage. actually kind of a scary villain with some stakes so far. very intrigued to see how this goes

[hazy kettle]

I'm glad she's not ending up as raid-fodder, the way they explained it.

[solar birch]

Xal seems interesting

[zealous sedge]

oh yeah she'll be with us the next 3 expansions

i just hope they dont turn her into some ugly old god

[hazy kettle]

She's here to be a menacing force encountered several times, rather than being an expansion-kill like Scalecommander Sarkareth.

[hazy kettle]

Just for that... I hope they make her Ashvein 2.0 >:C

[sullen dawn]

Sarkareth was a nobody lets me real

[solar birch]

Next 3 expansions is one complete story. Takes us to lvl 100.

There has to be a big reset then? Right?

[hazy kettle]

Nah, jokes aside, if anything that would prolly be her actual form in the void.

[sullen dawn]

I think Xal will be last boss of midnight

Dimensius is likely last boss of tww

[hazy kettle]

Mhhh... doubt it, as the actual Dimensius would be a Void Lord which is... Like either level Sargeras or above Sargeras even.

[zealous sedge]

but we killed Deimensius in TBC /s

[hazy kettle]

To be fair, we did clap Argus but there's plenty of evidence Argus was either fighting back or severly weakened. We never did clap Sargeras at full power, or anything close to him - doubt we could without a severe power-up.

[sullen dawn]

Only if fully manifested

And supposedly jailer was "titan++" lol

I don't think dimensius will fully manifest. The fight could be like stopping it happening

Since if he does it's gg

[zealous sedge]

I can't wait til Metzen retcons SL

[sullen dawn]

Me neither lol

[hazy kettle]

Titan++? Was that ever proven to be anything but community assumption? o.o

[hazy kettle]

So like Kil'jaeden at the Sunwell? Sure, that would make sense.

[sullen dawn]

That exact phrase was used by blizz to describe his power levrl

[hazy kettle]

Odd... Aight, in that case we can easily clap Dimensius.

[sullen dawn]

Something like that aye

They might do Dimensius actually at the sun well in midnight that way as a call back, but I have a feeling they wanna keep Xal around an extra expansion

She's supposed to be a harbinger for void lords but I think she players for herself these days imo

Which is the only reason I can see Dimensius going down first

[hazy kettle]

Would make plenty sense, yep. :0

[warm topaz]

Metzen said in the "podcast" that we'll face Xal multiple times in the saga

so probably till TLT?

[pulsar minnow]

Really curious why the war within’s main theme features the Aegis Wall riff so heavily

Since the Aegis Wall is just one of the protective barriers in hallowfall

[hazy kettle]

This has me a bit confuddled, since the Earthen are servants to the Titans (as often repeated, Titans are i.e. Aman'thul, Sargeras) instead of the Keepers (aka. Achaedas, Tyr, Freya etc.)

[pulsar minnow]

well the keepers are the representatives of the titans on azeroth

[solar birch]

What exactly is the coreway

[clear apex]

this mourning rise quest man...

[pulsar minnow]

the path into the core of azeroth

the thing in the center of dornogal

[clear apex]

sounds like its where they go to die

kinda and trade stuff

[solar birch]

Where what resides

[pulsar minnow]

the... underground of the expansion

hallowfall, ringing deeps, azj kahet

[solar birch]

So we don't know what's down there

[pulsar minnow]

we do

the coreway is the path to the underground

[solar birch]

But what's down there

[pulsar minnow]

Its this thing right here

that is the coreway.

[solar birch]

But what is down there 😆

[pulsar minnow]

the other three zones of the expansion.

[solar birch]

Smaug? balrog? Thanos?

[clear apex]

seems so far, to be a hole into the planet

[solar birch]

Let's explore some holes then

😆

Aren't these 3 expansions to be released closer to each other then past expansions?

[warm topaz]

18 month expansions is the goal

[deep pawn]

Did they ever say that number?

We're only assuming they want to do 3 tiers, no fated, and on

[clear apex]

pretty much was 'finished well before 2030"

and no more 2 full years

[solar birch]

Then what after this trilogy

[deep pawn]

they didn't say well before 2030

[solar birch]

We'd be back at lvl 100. Reset again?

[clear apex]

i remember hearing that in an interview

and, metzen said in the recent interview he's got ideas until patch 17.0

[deep pawn]

I do think a level and stat squish after TLT would be good

lets them reset all the "evergreen" they will have added over the saga

[clear apex]

“We can’t speak to any specific numbers, but yes, it will be faster than, you know, two years. We’d like to make sure that folks are not finishing The Worldsoul Saga in 2030. We want to get a little faster clip than that. So we’ve worked on structuring our teams and our development pipelines so that we can parallelize a lot more work and make it so that we’re already working on Midnight,” the designer explained.

[solar birch]

Wow 2?

[clear apex]

if they want it done and wrapped up by 2030, thats faster then their current 2 years.
mid-late 2024: tww
early-mid 2026- mid
?? 2028- tlt

Thats what a lot of people roughly estimate

[hazy kettle]

While that is true, one does not equate to the other, aka. the Keepers are not the titans themselves, which has me doing double takes every now and then on what I'm reading.

[pulsar minnow]

the keepers speak for the titans in their absence. keep in mind the titans have been dead for thousands of years until now

[hazy kettle]

I assume you mean they were kept under wraps by Sargeras till the end of Legion, correct? Since they couldn't communicate due to their corporeal forms having been nixed by the man, with new prison-bodies being built by the Legion - only Eonar's essence / soul was missing, as stated in one of the Anthorus cut scenes.

[pulsar minnow]

the titans souls were all that was left

they cant do shit when they're just souls

everyone assumed they had died. even the keepers

[hazy kettle]

But yeah, they haven't communicated for centuries prior to that, which is the reason Ra-Den was so done with everything in MoP.

*until MoP's end / in BFA... Ra-den is a bit of a weird case.

... Yikes. Girly got turned into part of the mushroom collective.

[solar birch]

Can i jump into the coreway

[hazy kettle]

... do it.

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[hazy kettle]

Oh nooo...

[solar birch]

I'm waking down the coreway..... stairs after stairs

It doesnt end 😆

[hazy kettle]

Wait, hol' on, it doesn't end?

Mario 64 Staircase

[solar birch]

I've made it to "ringing deeps"

I just keep going further down

[hazy kettle]

... but will you arrive at the core? The core to Azeroth, I mean. Kinda like our core. It will get hot though, prepare for that. Way worse than a sauna. 👀

[solar birch]

Made it

It's a contested area?

[hazy kettle]

Spicy info.

[hazy kettle]

... eyo.

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-surprised-wait-what-gif-9000717621307637538

Well, you weren't lying, that looks like it's very far underground.

[solar birch]

I didn't know the coreway went somewhere 😆

I'm under hallowfall

[hazy kettle]

I repeat my previous statement.

You're prolly in the Coreway.

*Ringing Deeps

[solar birch]

Well, it looks like death down here, so I'm gonna run back up

[hazy kettle]

Eyo, stop - continue.

Just think of all the riches, the untold treasures that you could find down there...
Just think of how cool you'll look to the Secret Finder's discord if you're the first to explore this... and find something, too!

[solar birch]

No one else down there

[hazy kettle]

Exactly!

[solar birch]

All the baddies are lvl 73

[hazy kettle]

I love what happened to Natalia Pearce, survives Dalaran's fall only to get turned into stone because she's a greedy no-good!

[ember blaze]

getting DCed on every cinematic is getting annoying lol

[deep pawn]

given what we know of the Eternal Ones, all the titans need are new robot bodies

[solar birch]

Not getting dc'ed per se but I keep seeing I'm disconnected from blizz services

Then it reconnects

[ember blaze]

i do not find any of this dwarf stuff interesting 🛌

[deep pawn]

the lifts are cool

[solar birch]

Baelgrim

What a champ

[ember blaze]

man now i cant even play

wheres all the people calling launches perfect 🤔

[deep pawn]

which server?

[upper pasture]

i've been on all night and haven't run into any issues so....

[clear apex]

I just logged off. Zero issues

Only stutter i had was a weird like 5fps after khadgar told me to use the portal

As for it being early access, nice not having 500 people in the same area making quests take forever

[deep pawn]

servers struggling now

[hazy kettle]

Baelgrim the absolute chad...

[deep pawn]

well I think I'm on my first bugged quest

[supple wasp]

did she fucking kill dadgar?

[tropic trail]

Yea 😑

[supple wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/bruh-stop-playing-you-cant-be-serious-can't-believe-it-for-real-gif-15330755033980503548

[ember blaze]

the spawn rate on some of these quest mobs is atrocious

[deep pawn]

hah, bugged cutscene with blue and white boxes

[thin warren]

Far in the campaign?

[deep pawn]

last zone

[thin warren]

Good, will be fixed I hope when I get there

[deep pawn]

it doesn't ruin it that much thankfully

[upper pasture]

it's just a visual bug

[thin warren]

Maybe also pc related

[upper pasture]

i doubt it

[deep pawn]

model wasn't coded right in the cutscene

[thin warren]

So this bug is seen by everyone, shouldn't be in there 😦

[lone mantle]

[supple wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/surprise-scream-cry-scared-gif-16908408

[tropic trail]

Dude I’m homeless 👀

Still accepting refuges in Ulduar, I’m a constellar btw

[deep pawn]

just before level 79 and in last zone, but it's bed time

[lone mantle]

Very well. You may now seek accommodation within Yogg-Saron's chambers.

[jade spade]

Anyone got any idea what culture the earthen names are based off? (Please ping me in the reply :) )

[sullen dawn]

Mix of Irish, Scottish, and fantasy dwarven

With some robotic conventions thrown in

[jade spade]

That's what I expected but a lot of them buck this trend really hard. Just interesting is all. Thanks for the reply :)

[supple wasp]

holy fuck hes just flesh now

no more WOONZ

would've lost my shit if both dadgar and magni died before the first patch

[tropic trail]

Yea Magni lives at least so it’s good.

[sleek solar]

True

Chadgar def did not die

If he did we would have seen more

[tropic trail]

I hope so and even if he is dead then maybe we can bring him back from Shadowlands like we did with Ysera 😅

[glass flicker]

I'm thinking that Dadgar might return with a tentacly hand and a void version of Atiesh, kinda like how Garrosh had Xal'atoh in SoO.

[clear apex]

how the hell do you avoid the spores in fungal folly?

i dont even go near them, avoiding the green ring and they swarm me. Sometimes theres 2 on top of the dwarf i need to rescue

[ember blaze]

🙏raid boss so we get his loot.

[glass flicker]

You know it.

[ember blaze]

idk i just hit them and they go flying

[clear apex]

every time i go near (without getting in the green), tag a mob near one, etc, they chase me and keep respawning

[upper pasture]

they just come to you, you dps them down they explode (you get out of green circle and don't get knocked back) they get knocked back and refill their health and repeat.

it's just part of the delve. you don't avoid them so much as manage them.

[silent urchin]

hard to manage them when your spec summons dumbass npc companions that aggro any of them within 40 yards and keep re-tagging them after you've "Killed" them

[upper pasture]

wdym you kill them they go away for a bit. that's the managing them part. it's a design for that delve to keep you moving around the map.

[clear apex]

after i kill em they just immediate respawn and chase me

ive had to run out of their range to make them stop

[silent urchin]

I can't stop void tendrils instantly aggroing them again

they end up back ontop of me within about 3 seconds

[clear apex]

Im on tier 1 and 2, brann's died twice. this is the only delve ive had issues with

they wont leave me tf alone

[hazy kettle]

"This is fine... This is okay. I am okay with the events that are unfolding. Yrr n'lyeth... shuul anagg!"

[deep pawn]

first delve load failure!

[lone mantle]

[clear apex]

anyone know how to finish "behind closed doors' on Dorn?
and how to pick up skolzgal woods questline?

I dont see anything on my map.

Last quest with dagran and machine lady they ||left me outside where you find the titan projections||

Im lv75 so i dont think mylevel is an issue

[sleek solar]

I have to say, I like new Anduin

I do hope he becomes a bit more like his father though, in terms of mindset

[uncut vault]

I do think the whole point of some of his story in this xpac is how that's not good for him haha

[sleek solar]

I do think we´ll get at that point tbh

[uncut vault]

Tossing himself to his death as a form of noble self-sacrifice like Varian in an attempt to regain the Light didn't exactly work out for him

[sleek solar]

He is getting to the "you must be willing to fight" part

Like how he wants to fight for the Nerubians too

[errant wraith]

is the hallowfall delve set accessable yet or no? in the early access

[glass flicker]

Has anyone found the new glyph of jab? Apparently it's not made by scribes.

[deep pawn]

nah sadly

it was never added

[glass flicker]

BLIZZARD

HOW DARE YOU GET MY HOPES UP AGAIN

Bad expansion. Worst/10. (Kidding, it's the best leveling experience since Legion)

[sleek solar]

This quest made me very sad

[clear apex]

it was a tough one

[sleek solar]

Yeah

It made me think about my grandpa, who had dementia

Luckily it never became that bad

[errant wraith]

why cant i capture this guy?

[sleek solar]

Because that pet is not one you can capture, just battle

[errant wraith]

theres some wild pets besides bosses you cant capture? never knew that

[sleek solar]

from https://www.warcraftpets.com/wow-pet-battles/#:~:text=So avoid using any strong,it in the Pet Journal.

Hmmm it is listed though

So perhaps its bugged

[dense plover]

they did actually rename these guys

i wasnt 100% sure

but when i first did this way back when it was added - they were called uh - whatever theyre actually called in ringing deeps (tired brain cant remember)

and it was a spoiler for that zone

skardin

thats the word

they renamed them to not spoiler which was a thing I reported

some of the dialogue audio is still broken tho.....

[errant wraith]

i understand not having access to like heroic raids/lfr/ mythics but i dont understand not having access to the level 80 questline

[dense plover]

it has rewards

the intention for Early Access very clearly is on getting to 80

if you do that, go level an alt

this is the alt expac

[deep pawn]

To be fair, Skardyn are still named before you know a damn thing about them

[hazy kettle]

True, minute flaw with that - you find a Skardyn before being told what one is and are able to name their kind.

Aka, when turning in the quest, you (as a player character) go "it was a Skardyn" - who the fuck told me their name? I CAN'T SEE NPC NAMES IN CHARACTER. :C

[deep pawn]

Yeah, that quest took me right out of immersion lol

[hazy kettle]

Totally, ruined the entire expansion for me.

[deep pawn]

I won't go that far but it didn't help the writing feeling rushed and shallow to me

[hazy kettle]

(It was a joke, dw Kyle. <3)

That one definitely warranted a second glance, ye.

[deep pawn]

I'm really tired of characters having to be dumb for the plot though

[hazy kettle]

Drenden being a risk / flat out being the reason Dalaran falls.

To be fair, several people have made a fair remark: Xal might have influenced them, aka. suggested to them everything was fine.

[zealous sedge]

The player is the smartest person in the room! But for some reason we don’t really speak up

Hahaha /s

[hazy kettle]

To be fair, that still sounds a bit cheap, but the only thing needed to make it work is some hints here and there.

[deep pawn]

That would have needed at least a little show vs explained later.

[hazy kettle]

It was less obvious / direct than the dragon-kin that fucked around with the Dream Portal in Ohn'aran Plains, but still.

[deep pawn]

A simple "we thought you lost after the third war"

[upper pasture]

wdym, you can see her literally influencing alleria all throughout the campaign

[hazy kettle]

Btw, whoever said the "he died in WC3"... 👀 I couldn't find a source for that.

[deep pawn]

He wasn't seen or mentioned after that

[hazy kettle]

True, I'm more so talking the Council and Khadgar.

[deep pawn]

It's why he was presumed dead after Archimonde destroyed the city.

[hazy kettle]

He was a character in the novels, disappeared for a while and re-appeared now. Which, all things considered, is my point: it's sus.

Especially with no sign of being alive and no contact to any other members of Dalaran.

[hazy kettle]

Didn't consider that though, good point. I didn't even make that connection. 👀

If that was their idea, very subtle... but good.

[upper pasture]

like she made her shoot at Xal which the nerubains took it as a shot at their queen and set up all that conflict right there

[hazy kettle]

Huh?

[deep pawn]

Xal didn't make her shoot, Alleria made that own rash stupid call on her own.

[upper pasture]

have you played the story yet?

[hazy kettle]

I am confused as to what you mean by "made her shot at Xal" - literally?

👀 I'm currently in the Ringing Deeps on one character, replaying Dornoghal on my mage rn.

[upper pasture]

yes because she hasn't been taunted by her and made out to be brash and quick to action when dealing with Xal.

[upper pasture]

don't worry you'll get there

[deep pawn]

Like I get her being upset by what Xal is doing by directly taunting her with her family and then destroying Dalaran, it's still stupid to take that shot at a creature who can teleport instantly.

[hazy kettle]

Okay, so that's happening later then.

[upper pasture]

the point is Xal is manipulating everyone and cause things directly and INDIRECTLY.

[hazy kettle]

That much I can agree with, I'm saying Dalaran just felt handled poorly.

[deep pawn]

I just wish I didn't feel like half her manipulations rely on characters acting stupid or without a second of thought.

When you make Wrathion in BfA look smart and levelheaded come on.

[upper pasture]

the whole Dalaran thing needs to happen or else we'd have no TWW. "oh Drenden? he's dead. lock that person up" ope, now no dalaran being destroyed gg.

[deep pawn]

And he got punched in the face!

[hazy kettle]

You're acting like they couldn't have spun this better / used a character we had seen before.

[upper pasture]

to me the "main" characters making mistakes like this shows they are indeed human too and capable of mistakes like any normal person

[deep pawn]

Like I'm fine with the writers writing for cool moments only, but make it believable

[hazy kettle]

I mean, for crying out loud, Legion's assassination quest line had us find out the Nightwatch had just murdered Darkshire's inhabitants for the promise of power.

[upper pasture]

they are not infallible know it alls

[hazy kettle]

Making mistakes? Yes. Making mistakes in a rational moment where it makes them look like a 20-yr-old with no experience (especially Khadgar)? Bit cooked.

[deep pawn]

I don't need them to be know it alls but to at least act like they're facing the void.

[upper pasture]

what's not believable about a warhero returning in a time of need?

[hazy kettle]

And I am all for making mistakes, Malfurion, Tyrande, etc. in Legion.

[deep pawn]

Great if he had been used for anything at all in WoW.

[hazy kettle]

... the warhero returning after several decades of being gone, nobody having known where he comes from or what he did in that time, nobody having heard of him in any way, shape or form, at a time when you are beset by enemies.

[upper pasture]

also take into account that people become hermits in azeroth all the time this isn't abnormal

[deep pawn]

They literally picked an expendable name

[upper pasture]

like literally Anduin has been doing that since SLs

[hazy kettle]

This isn't "oh, Drennden showed up at the start of Dragonflight to support Khadgar-" this is literally a calm moment while researching the mysterious Harbinger, a character returning not seen since sevral decades.

[deep pawn]

Could have used Modera if they wanted us to be surprised at all.

[hazy kettle]

Yes - and I'd question Anduin's ass too.

Mind you, there is a massive difference.

Anduin has been here for Shadowlands, gone after those events - time-span in between? 5 years + Dragonflight.

[upper pasture]

yes, an archmage who was a war hero. who might know something about Xal'atath

[deep pawn]

Blizzard wanted a betrayal moment without killing a named character

[hazy kettle]

Drenden has been gone since the third war.

[upper pasture]

who just happened to be her

[deep pawn]

"Drenden" offered his help out of nowhere

[hazy kettle]

So you're telling me you wouldn't be suspicious? You wouldn't try to do a background check?

[zealous sedge]

Personally they could have just planted a random new character in dragonflight (idk maybe like a blue dragon lesser than Kalec) that is very adept and took Kalec’s place on the Kirin Tor but it was actually Xal all along.

But they didn’t so oh well

[hazy kettle]

This

[deep pawn]

Blizzard started with the "we want to explode Dalaran" and wrote backwards in a way that makes characters look stupid.

[upper pasture]

who's to say they didn't/weren't planning to? it wasn't "here's the keys to dalaran, have fun" it was "oh hey welcome back, lets sit down with the council later"

[hazy kettle]

That's all I'm saying, again, like in every discussion about this. 👀 It's a missed opportunity and it felt off, to me. His return, given the moment, given the decades of being absent and offering to help immediately (all things considered, I get it, even a non-Xalatath would offer that) comes off as a red flag.

[upper pasture]

then shit started happening

[hazy kettle]

This is all we get to see. The entire interaction.

Now it's all fine and dandy with me to approach this from "well, we don't know what happened behind the scenes-", yes. But if you give us only this, it looks suspicious as all heck.

I've been calling out Drenden for months, there's been reddit posts doing the same.

[upper pasture]

brother people have beening "calling Drenden" out since the info dropped. it wasn't a surprise by anymeans

[hazy kettle]

So can we agree that it was obvious as hell then?

[upper pasture]

yes, it was obvious to us as outsiders.

[hazy kettle]

Because that's my entire point, I also discussed this with Scipio yesterday. 😮 All I'm ever trying to say is, it looked suspicious and it could have been handled better, given that the NPCs seemed all too trusting with no further explanation to it.

[upper pasture]

since you know we kinda get to see everything that's happening

it's like playing DnD. game knowledge/player knowledge.

[hazy kettle]

Yesn't. We do, yes. But that doesn't mean this wouldn't make the player character itself raise an eyebrow.

[deep pawn]

Using Drenden fell flat and I can only assume is because they didn't want to kill Modera or Aethas off.

[hazy kettle]

Give me those parameters, I'll also raise an eyebrow - ask me what I think of a situation like this, IRL, and I'd call bullshit on the reason why someone like that suddenly resurfaces (aka. somebody saying they 'needed a break' for several decades and suspiciously arrive while you're gaining large sums of money, for example)

[zealous sedge]

Bro if they killed Aethas AND Khadgar I’d lose my mind

[hazy kettle]

DON'T YOU KILL MY MODERA / AETHAS.

Nah, some heads have to roll.

[deep pawn]

I think Drenden could have worked had they put in any work on making his reappearance feel believable to anyone who could Google his name.

[hazy kettle]

[deep pawn]

So my only assumption is they assume the players are too stupid to care about the lore and only want the big boom cutscene.

[zealous sedge]

As a line of defense for the making it believable part, Metzen came back and TWW was already going for 10 months. It could have already been baked in. Sure, it more than likely could have changed, but it was probably super low priority on the lore team.

[hazy kettle]

Also true. We're becoming hyperbolic (?) rn tho, we're guesstimating what the reason is.

[zealous sedge]

True

We like speculation here haha

[hazy kettle]

Bottom line, it wasn't horrible, but it was very easy to spot. Might've been time constraints, might've been Metzen's late appearance, might've been a "... I can't make this too difficult to figure out, otherwise we'll have the other extreme and people call it bullshit-"

Personally, I just wish it weren't, I wish there were more story / explanation to it. 😮

[zealous sedge]

Yup, well all I can say I’ve barely made it out of isle of dorn and already top tier expansion for me. I know it’s early, but it’s just been so fun

[hazy kettle]

Different thing by the by, Xal can hide her magic apparently, since Alleria didn't sense her. That is a possible explanation, though I doubt that backstory runs this deep.

Aka. I doubt that's what they were trying to explain with it.

[zealous sedge]

I know recency bias is a huge part in my opinion but that’s ok

[hazy kettle]

Same.

[upper pasture]

i guess all i can say is if you think you can do a better job at story telling maybe you should apply to become a writer at blizzard

[hazy kettle]

Enjoying the story, the leveling, the music. °o°

[upper pasture]

the music is top tier the whole way through

and the zones feel incredible too

[hazy kettle]

I heard of a nifty argument against that counter-argument, but I did forget it in the meantime.

[zealous sedge]

Oh my god always a bedrock of WoW for sure

Isle of Dorn is a 10/10 zone

Also when you do dragon races the music is different and I love it

[hazy kettle]

Anyway, I'm not saying I could do it better - I'm saying, given the obvious callouts by people and everybody I've talked to saying it was obvious (at least agreeing on that), there is a lack of depth to it. 😮

[upper pasture]

it was like this in DF too

[zealous sedge]

Yep, but it’s different than the DF dragon racing theme which I liked

It’s unique

[upper pasture]

it was the "login music" or the DF theme music for the DR races

[zealous sedge]

Yup

[deep pawn]

I think if they had used any other mage that was around at all during WoW it could work but Blizzard didn't want to use a character that had any involvement with players.

[hazy kettle]

Yeah, but they did tarnish the entire Nightwatch as well, so...

It's okay to end some characters.

[upper pasture]

again, player knowledge verses character knowledge. we as people who can google stuff and have all the knowledge of what's currently happening in WoW verses the characters who have limited knowledge and people becoming hermits and who need help in the moment become trusting of people they shouldn't.

[hazy kettle]

It's not going to be to everyone's taste - same as with this, for me. I'm just let down (a bit, not much) by the in-my-face approach of Drennden being a facade, doesn't mean the intro (or the story so far) is bad (as a whole or just because of one thing )

[hazy kettle]

Some might, yes. Others might not, also yes. I'd doubt Khadgar would, after the blunder with Cordana.

[deep pawn]

My issue is we aren't shown a reason for why the Kirin Tor trust him. That's the lack of depth

[upper pasture]

yet here we are

[hazy kettle]

Again, exactly that.

[upper pasture]

because he's an archmage? of dalaran.

that's sorta a pass

[hazy kettle]

Because he's had decades of experience with betrayal, is a very wise and studied character, had moments like this several times over?

[upper pasture]

also the mages of dalaran are kinda entitled dicks.

[deep pawn]

Great, give us any indication of why he was missing and suddenly showing back up.

[hazy kettle]

It diminishes the character, aka. it dumbs them down.

[hazy kettle]

Give that man a cookie.

[deep pawn]

I'd have accepted him being a pen pal

[hazy kettle]

Archbishop Benedictus, Sylvannas with Azshara, Mystic Sauronok, Nightwatch 👀 There are several stories like these, some done better (with some hints / lead-up, others less in depth and sometimes simply dropped onto us)

[hazy kettle]

(Replying to this so you get the answer-ping) As a whole, agree to disagree. You're saying that, given the circumstances, they'd still be accepting, I'm asking for vetting or just some explanation of where he was (thank you, @deep pawn 👀)

[upper pasture]

and they likely had intended to do that yet they didn't have time to do it.

[hazy kettle]

@upper pasture Yeah, I'm glad we can agree on that. 👀

[upper pasture]

no, not the writers, the characters in-game.

we we experienced over months is probably only a day or two if that.

[hazy kettle]

Ah, so we're coming full circle now - possible, yes. And why isn't that shown in game? Likely because they didn't have time (to implement it or figured it was okay this way, guesstimating²)

[deep pawn]

a single line of text saying Khadgar had been writing to him since the dark portal reopened would have been plenty.

[hazy kettle]

... is my game bugging out?

[deep pawn]

delves sometimes load buggy

[hazy kettle]

It's directly ahead of my map icon

So it shouldn't be the delv. 😮

Nah, hold up, you're on to something.

Too difficult to explain in words (in long form), short: this isn't the delve entrance, so I'm confused why it's just blacked out like that.

[dense plover]

holy shit

the high speaker intro cutscene

i love how much of a douche he is

[upper pasture]

he gives mega douche vibes lol

[errant wraith]

anyone know if hallowfall gear is available right now? love the paladin sets

[upper pasture]

like bro you could have an motor pulling you along but you have other dwarfs doing it

[hazy kettle]

RIGHT?!

[hazy kettle]

And the little nod at the end to it, him just sitting there like... EHEM

Had me both giggling and wanting to throw my drink at him.

[dense plover]

and the claps to get going

i mean - fuck me - just the cart itself

its perfect

[hazy kettle]

It gives... Douchebag.

[hazy kettle]

First Meeting of the Unbound, how they came to be (near Dornogal)

Huh, this apparently gives you rep with Dornogal too

[deep pawn]

yeah, finding all the lore stuff does

[hazy kettle]

On an unrelated note, Queensguard Zirix' voice is sooooooo good.

Whoever did it (they are a pretty common voice actor for WoW, used often) did such a good job in the encounter with Alleria. "The Coreway is severed. You will never reach the Harbinger." His sinister, deep laughter.

[rain cave]

I just realized that this is the xpac that was literally marketed with the sargeras sword but I've not seen anyone mention it

but evidently they wanted us to keep it in mind with the cinematic trailer

[hazy kettle]

Yeah, that's because...

What sword?

[rain cave]

final raid to do with the sword?

[hazy kettle]

[rain cave]

if we had to suck bad energy out of the blade since it was hurting azeroth

[hazy kettle]

Possibly, but I doubt it a little. Usually they like to do an "in expansion setting" raid, aka. the last raids are usually in the second / third (depending on how many patches) zones.

[rain cave]

who's to say bad energy can't be put in

and who's going around with an agenda against the planet and a pocket sized object with a TON of shadow magic in it

[hazy kettle]

Good call, quite possibly one of the many reasons why Xal is scrounging up energy.

[rain cave]

would not surprise me if she just goes there and starts unloading

there's even a corpse of an old god under there

[hazy kettle]

Not a corpse. 👀

[rain cave]

and would line up with her legion showcase

[hazy kettle]

C'thun, Yog, etc. are active.

As in, they are slumbering.

We basically clapped them back to sleep.

[rain cave]

since it would make sense she'd start planning that after seeing things literally firsthand in legion

[hazy kettle]

... although, yeah, you can call it a corpse. Whoops. '- '

[rain cave]

also no the old gods are dead

especially c'thun though

[hazy kettle]

Yesn't (to my knowledge)

[rain cave]

Nzoth is the most potentially 'alive' in spirit

he might be in the blade

Yogg's body is most likely alive

[hazy kettle]

It was established several times over that the old gods can't be killed in that sense, they can only be put to sleep basically.

Though they might've retconned that.

[rain cave]

whilst yes in a way

Nzoths body has been destroyed

C'thun had a continent sized sword shoved directly into him

[hazy kettle]

That's also a tad unclear, as we clap him in Nyalotha, which is just his vision manifest - not really Azeroth. o.o

[hazy kettle]

Nah, he isn't beneath the sword! O:

[rain cave]

I'd be impressed if he wasn't

[hazy kettle]

Locationwise, afaik, he isn't. 👀

[rain cave]

considering old gods can be continent sized themselves

[hazy kettle]

OHHHHHHH... fair point.

[rain cave]

and he's located right where the sword is

[hazy kettle]

Hmm. Quite possible then, yes.

... man, I just got the cutscene with the high speaker again.

What a douchebag.

[dense plover]

its not in the menu, but you can rune darkflame cleft as a follower dungeon via this npc

[tropic trail]

Is she dead too?

[zealous sedge]

Just finished up the side quests for Dornic and Galan on isle of dorne. very interesting... looking forward to hear more about it

[tropic trail]

Yea this expansion feels like heaven compared to Dragonflight 😌

[zealous sedge]

did you like dragonflight?

or do you mean in a lore aspect

[tropic trail]

Yea the lore aspect

Something something anti titan 👀

[zealous sedge]

for sure for sure yeah i havent even made it out of isle of dorne its so well done

[tropic trail]

But now the vibes are perfect, the zone is epic, strom riders are epic. Damn 😂

I can see they put a lot of effort into details

[zealous sedge]

im really curious if we will find out what those Dornic and Galan were protecting. The earthen were digging... for something. maybe people here already know from beta but its intriguing to say the least

[tropic trail]

I didn’t go that far yet, I’m somewhere out there killing Kobolds

[zealous sedge]

its part of the Speaker Brinth and Dagran's side quests but we don't know much

im killing Kobolds too right now XD

[hazy kettle]

No, it was a gag earlier about how they wouldn't kill of either of them because they got Drennden to kill off.

[deep pawn]

Have we seen Modera since the destruction?

[tropic trail]

I saw the spiders were kidnapping some webbed people so it’s possible she is with them.

[sleek solar]

Lmao I get this as a void elf

[clear apex]

Was that one dwarf a Shaman tank?!

In the rookery?

[deep pawn]

Yes

Him and the hype shaman tanks in SoD are my copium about shaman tanks being part of the 20th anniversary

[whole lagoon]

side note katy stamp whistle and the vulpera meeka or what not were so cute and the worst compains for hiding missions lmfaooo

[clear apex]

I'm still in dornagol, so IDK about the other dungeons.
But i do like that they gave new npcs to do follower dungeons

[dense plover]

they added a bunch of new 'stay a while and listen' dialogues

compared to beta i mean

really adds a lot to the story of the characters

[clear apex]

It's nice

[dense plover]

i thought they had made the fearbreaker questline a storyline quest?

did they just make it one of the sojourner quests so that eventually you see it?

[clear apex]

Hmm so I dont know what to do here, the 'sassy arathi' quest is not showing up. This is the start point according to wowhead and other websites.

its supposed to start Brotherhood in the Skolzgal Wood

and says its a lv70 quest??

Im 76, have low level stuff turned on

Checking forums, this has been an issue in Beta since June!

[deep pawn]

It's hard to miss the quest but yeah, it's not msq

[silent urchin]

I'm not sure exactly what unlocks sassy arathi, but I presume it requires most of hallowfall

I got a breadcrumb quest for it south of the theatre though, at the crossroads where there's a bunch of quests

[clear apex]

nothing at crossroads for me atm. Ill just do msq and see what happens.
I cant finish Dagran stuff, dunno if that was tied to Behind Closed Doors or not

the last quest i recall doing on the BCD was the mining stuff in the city for smuggled goods

[hazy kettle]

Aight, I am intruiged, what is a "Great Kyron"

[deep pawn]

I think they showed that part a bit early lol

[dense plover]

hes the elf from hallowfall

you meet him early

[hazy kettle]

Ah, haven't been there yet. 😛

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[clear apex]

ok so after getting to ringing deeps i was finally able to move ahead with the 'behind closed doors' a dwarf lady showed up in dorn and the deeps to try and talk to me

seems weird. I didnt do anything in the deeps that would have affected it story wise

[dense plover]

you met the prereqs for the quest probably

[hazy kettle]

OH YOU BI-

Knifuuuu!

[zealous sedge]

Is that Han Solo in the background 😂

Something something carbonite

[hazy kettle]

... Damn, that's a really good reference. xD Nah, it's one of the earthen templates.

[zealous sedge]

I know this is the spoiler channel but I haven’t ventured to ringing deeps yet… as far as I know isle of dorn talks about the Machine but hasn’t really said was it is. Am I missing something? Or do we find out more down there

[hazy kettle]

We find out more downstairs, but mainly: The 'Awakening Machine' is the Machine that produces new earthen / new bodies for the earthen. Without it, earthen-kind will cease to exist because even their bodies, at some point, perrish.

[zealous sedge]

Cool, appreciate it! Also curious about the “cycles” I remember Kagran(?) speaking about it before he shut down at the beach. Do they get recycled in the machine?

[upper pasture]

i'm assuming their "cycles" are what we would consider years

[hazy kettle]

Not sure I remember it correctly? iirc cycles are their way to describe time passing, aka. several cycles = several years / decades.

[zealous sedge]

Ahhh I see that makes sense

Maybe cycle was the wrong word. I need to find the quest text. But it was intriguing. I remember it saying something along the lines that even when the Machine is working that their “minds” or memory still have that existential feeling of death in a way. I feel like it sort of implied that the memory cores go defunct and the machine just recycles the “body” to be used again for a new memory core. Kind of a bittersweet existence if you ask me. Anywho, can’t wait to find out more.

[hazy kettle]

Same. :> AFAIK they give the memories to the Archive, but that also means they won't ever be able to recall them (afaik they can't access the archive)

[clear apex]

magni saying 'azeroth you fox" i thought he said 'you fuck"

[hazy kettle]

Same

... oh shit, Magni's sacrifice.

NO, ME BOI, DON'T...! I KAN'T LOOSE YA, WOONS-MAN!

Damn, Moira looks pretty in that cinematic.

[clear apex]

is there any place in dorn where i can hide my prof gear?

i dont want to go back to DF just for that

also, i really like this mail set

[dense plover]

yes

the same npc is in dornogal

i think you can ask a guard?

might be near the artisands guild idk

[clear apex]

ty

[clear apex]

Her?

if so, i cant even talk to her

oh nvm it was the one outside

got it

[plain violet]

I would also add that without the machine, they can't recharge.

And yeah, batteries aren't eternals.. 😁

[deep pawn]

A cycle is a "lifetime"

a new cycle is when they upload their memories and start over.

[zealous sedge]

Thank you

[tropic trail]

She lied to him and all the earthen would turn into some void husk

[hazy kettle]

[tropic trail]

Story so good, I reached level 80 but I’m gonna do every quest. 😌

[opal storm]

Did I skip a dialogue or Faerin really randomly goes "hi random dude I never met before, we friends now, now help"?

[deep pawn]

No, she saw you help fight Nerubians and that's enough for her.

[opal storm]

But... did she see us fight?

[dense plover]

I believe anduin briefly explains himself - but she is very much a friends first kind of person

if you arent nerubian, you are a friend

[opal storm]

[pulsar minnow]

so this is obvious and someone probably already pointed it out during beta but I guess I somehow missed this

What're the odds that whats turning the Hallowfall crystal voidy is just black blood

would be lame imo but hey good chance

i do love that sargeras stabbing the planet directly lead into the conflict of this expansion then, as the sword dislodged the blood opening it up for nerubian access

[dense plover]

it would be odd considering most of it is ending up BENEATH beledar in azj'kahet

but it wouldnt be lame if its more complicated than just being there

[dense plover]

also, no need to spoiler tag - this is the spoiler channel

thats its purpose

[opal storm]

habit xD

[dense plover]

if people are spoiled, they shouldnt have been here in the first place

[tropic trail]

Anduin got kidnapped again 👀

[deep pawn]

Depends on the discord and game.

The subreddit discord requires spoiler tags til real release

FF14 does a two week embargo to let people level.

[dense plover]

i was talking about this discord tho

[deep pawn]

Just giving reasons why people might spoiler tag.

[opal storm]

just out of habit hiding new content for any game

[hazy kettle]

Damn.

The music adds to it.

[dense plover]

do we get any cgi cinematics through the story available during early access?

[hazy kettle]

Nope, she really just randomly calls us friend - but I think that's reading too much into it. I flew over to them, had no interaction with Nerubians, heard her and General Steelsmthn talk and this quest has her calling me friend immediately.

I think "-call you friend." is just her way of saying she welcomes us with more trust and kindness than the others, because that's simply her nature, she sees us for who we are - or believes to do so.

Imagine if Xal just rolled up as one of us and had that interaction Faerin.

[pulsar minnow]

we get pre rendered and in-engine cinematics but no cgi

[dense plover]

following up on that - this says that its always been here, its just active now

so it may be more complicated than that

[pulsar minnow]

gotcha, nice catch

[hazy kettle]

@pulsar minnow both of these texts make me think this is C'thun's rotting corpse bleeding.

[dense plover]

that was always my guess

[hazy kettle]

I had that exchange with somebody yesterday, briefly, and given C'thun's size... °o ° It may very well be that.

[dense plover]

cthun has been dead for a LONG time

long before the sword

[hazy kettle]

Yes, but

[dense plover]

but the sword mightve made it worse

yes

[hazy kettle]

A) We can't kill Old Gods / get rid of them, we can only put them to sleep.
B) We haven't faced 'The Old Gods', we've only ever faced their avatars (bar N'zoth, maybe), since it's said they are gigantic.

Like a festering tumour, spreading everywhere, into every crevice.

[dense plover]

thats not true

[hazy kettle]

So, C) - it's quite possible Sargeras toothpick actually struck C'thuns genuine body.

[dense plover]

theyve retconned killing old gods

[hazy kettle]

... avatar is the wrong word for it, yes. ow o

THEY HAVE? O_O

👀 When

[dense plover]

a while ago

nzoth

so BfA

[hazy kettle]

[dense plover]

once their body is destroyed they are dead - but that doesnt mean their influence disappears

[hazy kettle]

Imma need to read up, you're scratching at smthn I might've forgotten about... Hmm.

[dense plover]

ie yogg saron has been dead since forever

but the sha and everything else

ya know