beta-ptr-spoilers

[iron hare]

Well isht seeing the horrors of something and creating a whole army EXACTLY what the jailer tried to do

"A cosmos divided cannot fight againts what's to come" - zovall

[hazy kettle]

... yeah, except that the Dreadlords were sent as spies, even into the Void and Light, to sow chaos - unless you're implying this was also a lie.

[iron hare]

Dreadlords are v confusing

If I Remeber correctly onky denathrius's son mentions it

[hazy kettle]

At which point you're shuffling up so much existing lore that it becomes hard to believe. °- °

[hazy kettle]

Let me quickly do a bit of digging and we'll have an answer, one moment.

[iron hare]

Yeah it's only mentioned by Renethal

I think denathrius 100% made his own dreadlords up that's for sure possible, but I think they've been around longer

[hazy kettle]

Yeah, it's implied / outright stated in Convoy of the Covenants, Spy vs Spy (https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Spy_vs_Spy) and here https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_Nathrezim

[iron hare]

Yeah the dreadlords fucking everything up still is cannon

But I don't think it's a master plan by denathrius

[iron hare]

It dosent make sense, there's literally a robotic version of denathrius in zereth morris

Mortis

[iron hare]

Well of course a dreadlord is going to point you into the direction of a servant of the titans

Like

[hazy kettle]

Yes, because the Death Pantheon was created by the First Ones, which you presume don't exist o:

[iron hare]

They're basically pointing you in the direction of denathrius

"It's all our master plan it's all this guys fault"

[iron hare]

I think first ones = titans

They exist but they're not a seperate being

[hazy kettle]

Since we're spamming this channel, let me conclude it this way - I'm all for fan theories, and I do believe you hold some merrit with some of the things you're speculating here. Overall I disagree though (agree to disagree 🤝 ) since a lot of it uproots so much established lore which
A) Blizzard is very rarely, if ever, doing and
B) Blizzard does not like to do on a large scale, as shown by how few betrayals this size there have been in the past.

And I had a point C) but... I forgor. ._.

[iron hare]

It's just the only way imo shadowlands can fit in into what wow is meant to be without uprooting everything

The idea of the first ones messes everything up because if the big finale is titans and we've already slain beings as powerful as the titans (in shafowlands legion we were cannonically extremely powerful) then the last titans isn't that scary

[hazy kettle]

Blizzard would be hard-reversing the entirety of Shadowlands (which... ngl, wouldn't be too bad) by making the Titans the First Ones. Then there's also the difference in hiroglyphs in Shadowlands compared to Arcane Glyphs in every other instance the Titans are used.

[iron hare]

But yeah agree to disagree, I just want wow to be good again

[hazy kettle]

Same.

Best we stop discussing back and fourth (though you're welcome to explain your theory in full, that's what the channel is - in part - for, I think. <3)

[iron hare]

You have to admit tho sargs blade does like a mourneblade

Just titan-y

[acoustic kraken]

thats just the logo for starship troopers on the hilt isnt it? and we go to space after conquering the world? hmmmm

[iron hare]

I'm honestly really curious to see midnight

[austere gazelle]

Chronicles do states that the first ones existed and also implied they were six ( or seven)

And that those first ones were représentant of each of the forces

[iron hare]

Aren't chronicals titan propaganda

And considered an unreliable narrator now?

[uncut vault]

They cover their bases on that by having the author go "some people believe this"

but it's really clear that it's just the actual canon and they want to work around retconning chronicle 1's universal origins

the fact that it's the first time we've seen mention of an explicit number of First Ones being the main reason

[iron hare]

And they're 7 titans

[uncut vault]

Odyn's explicitly mentioned in his private edicts that the Titans are not the First Ones, much as I wish they were lol

[tropic trail]

Haha 😂

[iron hare]

Fuck you got me

I don't have an argument for that

[thin warren]

didn't at the end of shadowlands we also saw that there are different engines of creation, this one was for life that we visited, or something

[iron hare]

Maybe he dosent know

[tropic trail]

You know, I was just in Uldir and there was this laboratory. It seems like first ones or titans were experimenting on Old Gods to evolve a perfect species 🤔

[iron hare]

Tbf that could just mean titans fucked up other planes of existence too

Life was the first with Eonar

Then death

[tropic trail]

I think the things got out of control there.

[iron hare]

I just hate the idea of "we're all robots" so much

[thin warren]

soon Azeroth just explodes and we all die

queue WoW 2.0

[iron hare]

But if it's like "beings of order are trying to make everyone a robot" it can work (imo)

[tropic trail]

They literally try to control everything and if can’t control they use domination rules to imprison

[iron hare]

Yeah why the fuck are titans creating old gods in the first place

Like g'huun is literally a titan made old god

[thin warren]

the old gods are from the void lords?

[iron hare]

G'huun isn't

[tropic trail]

They were getting samples from him

Trying to evolve something I guess

[iron hare]

Figure out the secrets of the void to defeat them

Boom

[thin warren]

from light comes darkness, from darkness comes light

(i just recently rewatched the Warcraft movie xD)

[iron hare]

Warcraft movie is great ngl

[thin warren]

Alodi is wisdom

when is the next Warcraft movie 😦

[tropic trail]

I still have her staff 😂

[thin warren]

all those expansions that could be a movie

[iron hare]

Also I'm reading some of this Odyn stuff and holy fuck

[thin warren]

Odyn is scary

we should take him out

[iron hare]

New theory

[thin warren]

that keeper that we remade, i hope we see him again

[iron hare]

First ones were the natural leaders, titans came in and fucked everything up and somehow beat them

They became the new leaders trying to order everything up

[iron hare]

#justiceforhelya

[tropic trail]

I think they assign them as designates for their purposes

[iron hare]

He did her dirty

[thin warren]

I should read the chronicles i have the first part

[iron hare]

Yeah chronicles odyn is a pos

[acoustic kraken]

mb its like when ai learns it can solve all of humanities problems by removing all of humanity. titans are created. and solve the problem of the first ones messing with their order by eliminating them

[iron hare]

Yeah exactly

Which we literally saw with zovall

[thin warren]

ooh, lol, didn't tought about the first ones in shadowlands from the covenants 🥲

djeeze

[lone mantle]

The dichotomy between the Celestials' natural order and the Titans' catastrophic order reflects broader philosophical questions about power and the ethics of intervening in the universe.

[leaden sentinel]

when ever i try entering the new zone via portal in orgimar, it shows this green color then I enter the new zone for 2 seconds and it kicks me out!

any1 facing this issue?

[tropic trail]

I think Titans didn’t like void much. There was a world tree in Un’goro crater or something, and then Titans didn’t like it and pluck it off and it become il’ginoth 😂

[tropic trail]

I got same it’s a bug.

[leaden sentinel]

isnt there any way else to the new zone?

[sullen dawn]

I really hope so. The dreadlords made by denathrius thing is the piece of lore that annoys me most about shadowlands

Second is first ones

[crude sigil]

Beta realms (leveling ones) are down ?

[dense plover]

Known bug - not new

[dense plover]

They’ve been done since last week

[crude sigil]

any info about a "re-open" ? or something ?

[iron hare]

Yeah no way a first raid boss is ever gonna be that powerful Imo

[sullen dawn]

It's also annoying because the venthyr are a lot lamer than the dreadlords, especially since their leader is a robot

Denathrius is funny as a raid boss maybe recurring villain but it's hard to take him seriously. The dreadlords are much more interesting without his involvement

[iron hare]

Imo dreadlords serve the nether, denathrius created the venthyr as fake dreadlords, they use site denathrius as a fake leader for us to get rid of the eternal ones and fuck up the titans order of death

Techincally they say that denathrius sired the dreadlords not made them

And sired means if I'm not mistaken to serve

[sullen dawn]

I would like this. If the dreadlords interfered in the titans (cos first ones don't exist) creation of eternal ones

Like swapped out a soul for one of theirs to put in the robots

Trojan horse

[iron hare]

No way dreadlords are stupid enough to be like "haha you met our master our plan is unveiled"

They're whole purpose is to trick you

[sullen dawn]

Dreadlords were one of the most interesting villains wow. They're kind of the anti-mortal

[iron hare]

But guess what? If they're going "hey that's our master!" Guess who's gonna do they're dirty work you are

[sullen dawn]

I prefer they're from the nether

[iron hare]

Like your telling me the master of dreadlords themed raid has no dreadlord bosses

[sullen dawn]

But I don't mind them being from death realm if they're pre eternal ones

[iron hare]

Like not one dreadlord would come to denathrius's palace

Just venthyr

[iron hare]

If they serve Argus they're still serving death

Serving the burning legion is still kind of serving death cause they literally have the titan of death

[sullen dawn]

Honestly I'd rather they just serve themselves

[iron hare]

Shadowlands is literally in between disorder and death in the map anyway

[austere gazelle]

Map order arent reliable anymore since those orders are made by those who drew it

[worn crown]

I disagree completely. Denathrius has a lot of personality which Zovaal sorely lacked. One villain can be funny, intelligent and menacing at the same time, and next time Denathrius appear Blizz can capitalize on that.

Iridrikon is more interesting than Zovaal, but it still is this "standard robotic villain vibe" too much

Also, I like dreadlords having a master. Otherwise they are this "force of deceit" with no purpose. IMO it is a lot less interesting

[sullen dawn]

I think he was funny and intelligent but in a Saturday morning cartoon kind of way

Definitely not the kind of guy I'd like as a warcraft major player

(yes zoval is worse, and iridikron is meh)

They can have a purpose without having a master. Everyone is always given a master in wow, and they have a master, and they have a master

Its tiring

There can be a chief dreadlord, but I'd rather they were kind of the 'anti-azerothians' in a way

With no strictly ruling master

Not to mention the eternal ones lost any interest from me once it turned out they were produced in a factory

Dreadlords are cool. I'll rather they split them away from the shadowlands mess, and don't have denathrius involved with them

[deep pawn]

We're gonna have a Saturday morning cartoon villain this expansion with Gallywix likely anyways

And also, Denathrius isn't just a robot. The eternal ones all have souls

[uncut vault]

Them not really having a purpose beyond self interest is what made them interesting, though

Like them having a secret master on the broad scale is a neat concept to explore, but there’s a reason their catchphrase is “I’m always on the winning side”

Seeing them working towards a shared goal but ultimately being self-interested individuals who will sabotage each other around their brotherly pacts was the fun about them in WC3

[iron hare]

Can we agree that daddy d was the best part of shadowlands

He was the only thing that actually felt like wow and not just depressing, he had that charm to him ❤️

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Wowhead/status/1818094865202233555?t=pUQ3_9wTGlBM7kWAT1v0zw&s=33

Wowhead💙 (@Wowhead) on X

Warbanks, which were disabled last week to address a critical issue, are set to be reenabled with the weekly reset! #Warcraft #WarWithin

https://t.co/9ufNnIAhZs

Twitter · Jul 30, 2024, 1:22 AM

[little hound]

Nice. Now fix crossrealm trade…

[sullen dawn]

He's a real boy!

[sullen dawn]

I'm not against Saturday morning cartoon villains, just don't want them in charge of the dreadlords :p

Or as 'main cosmic antagonists'

[sullen dawn]

I loved all the depressing parts.l of the shadowlands haha. Didn't love the what the expansion did to the lore but the vibe of it was cool (mostly, the butterflies in ardenweald sucked)

The theme of the maw was cool to me

The Jailor sucked but his forces were cool AF. Those old men death with the long beards were awesome

[opaque pewter]

The themes were great and meshed well given the theme indeed

[subtle oar]

All the Gods are robots.

Arguably the worst bit of lore to come from Shadowlands. The de-mystolification of the Gods of WoW into robots made by "The First Ones", whose inclusion to the story also sucks.

Elunes no longer cool because now we know she's just a robot too.

[plain violet]

There is no indication of Elune being a robot, it's an interpretation of the "she's the sister of Winter queen", Kyle is right about the fact they still have souls, tho.

[tropic trail]

Everything that leaves the forge of creation is a robot, but after it’s imbued with soul or spirit of some kind

[sullen dawn]

yeh it's still pretty lame

[austere gazelle]

on that topic, Grimoire of Shadowlands even implies that both Elune and her sister were together at some point and had to separate to take their respective roles in their respective planes, so she was not a robot to begin with , but she " gave a part of herself " ( like her soul ) to become an Eternal one.

[plain violet]

Oh yes you're right about that! Grimoire of Shadowlands often imply that Ardenweald follow special rules/is different.

Thanks you. 😁

[austere gazelle]

And all those stories of cycle and Eternel ones screams Xel Naga in my ears anyway so we should not be surprise if Azshara become the Kerrigan of wow and reincarnate within a benevolent Azeroth after that ( like Azeroth's world soul is a crater after Xal corrupted her but someone had to sacrifice to energize it and " ressurect it " again , and that would tie with Azshara prophecy )

[lone mantle]

I believe that both sisters have now reconnected, as shown in the "By Our Hand" cinematic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlNR6UX8L5I&t=39s

[austere gazelle]

The Crown of Harmony is a living symbol of that ^^

[silent urchin]

And Ysera, who now has both life and death magic

[austere gazelle]

Malfurion seems to have that too.. his eyes color changed...

[austere gazelle]

And if I may speculate on what this page is saying, the First Ones tasked their followers to take part in the framework , so both Elune and the Winter Queen existed during the First Ones era ( explaining how Elune could have created the Naarus ) , prior to the ordering of the cosmos by the First Ones, and I think Xal is one of those entities too.

The First Ones might had children that are a bit less powerful than them but more powerful than many.

If we follow that line of thought, Elune, An'she, The Winter Queen, maybe Xal, were all children of First Ones and were tasked to uphold their Grand Design.
Which would means that Azeroth is a First One

In the case of Xal, maybe she was on the losing side of the Ordering of the Cosmos by the First Ones, hence being " a survivor from the depth of time "

[plain violet]

That would make sense. Xal, like Xe'ra, talked about the grand ordering of the cosmos, Xal specially talked about how they were others pawn before the draenei, that they were already multiple wars...

And draenei are already old...

Of course not that old, but it's interesting because we never heard about others populations used by the Naaru, but Xal mention them.

[austere gazelle]

Yep, and that would also explain how she would try to siphon's Elune power and called her an " upstart goddess ", after all, that would just be bitterness toward the winners of a battle she lost

[sullen dawn]

In that case I hope the same is true of denathrius and that his soul is actually a dreadlord

They basically 'injected' him into the process to infiltrate the shadowlands

[austere gazelle]

well he might be a children of a first one, but, somehow, I don't think all the eternal ones are. We don't have any more details to dwell on for this theory

[sullen dawn]

I'll take anything that means the dreadlords arent serving a robot created by first ones

[austere gazelle]

But this Theory will also explain why the Winter Queen came in Ardenweald when the Mushroom guy was already there : The first one constructed the place, it started to grew, and then the Winter queen was sent there to enforce the first ones design

[sullen dawn]

Id like to think there was a 'realm of death' already

Pure death, pre shadowlands

[austere gazelle]

yep, it was " ordered " by the First One of " Order ". and the winter queen being sent there explains why there was stuff existing prior, and not that she was born within the shadowlands. There was a bit of questionnement on how Marasmus ( ? ) complained that the arrival of the winter queen and her groves annoyed him

[sullen dawn]

Beings like Mueh'zala should come from there

[austere gazelle]

In the end I think the First One of the Void and the First One of the Light are no more. There was a battle between themselves and some of them were deposited, going on deeper on my theory, maybe the first One of the void was the one who attacked the EarthMother, aka " the Darkness "

[sullen dawn]

Possibly the devourers too?

If theyre not related to the 7th force

[austere gazelle]

Go figures what they are tbh...

[sullen dawn]

Yeh they're super strange

[austere gazelle]

there were many contradiction within shadowlands and retcon , it's sometime hard to grasp what is the final stuff

[plain violet]

Maramus yes! I loved the implication, that.. wait, Ardenweald existed before. That it was different.

[sullen dawn]

Beings like Mueh'zala and the devourers and the mushroom guy seem more interesting to me than all the eternals, covenants and first ones stuff

They seem more primordial

[worn crown]

Marasmius for sure is a thought-provoking character 🤔

That said, I really like the covenants lore 🤨

[tropic trail]

Yeah same

[plain violet]

I do liked them too!

[iron hare]

Unless only the eternal ones are as fake titans

[subtle oar]

Considering each cosmic force has its own Zereth, where the gods of said force were created by the First Ones, it's extremely likely all the Gods are robots.

[iron hare]

Denuser rlly fucked up, it ruins everything

[silent urchin]

They're not robots though

[iron hare]

The titans could be robots that gained sentience and took over

Honestly poor metzen, imagine creating this amazing whimsical world and having this new guy come in and be like "everything is a robot because my new characters said so"

You could tell he was upset in blizzcon

[subtle oar]

We literally fight their prototypes as a raid boss. The gods are 3d printed robots

[iron hare]

Every word about the story was filled with passive aggression

[silent urchin]

I'm aware of the raid

But they're still fully alive, not robots

however they were created

[iron hare]

I would have paid money to see metzens initial return to blizzard

[lone mantle]

Chris Metzen did return to Blizzard full-time as Executive Creative Director of the Warcraft universe.

[iron hare]

That's the only reason why I'm coming back

I'm 20 now, my dad would play the wrath login music to help me go to sleep when I was a baby , he wouldn't let me do dungeons and raids because I was too young and not v good, I would sneak and do them (and get yelled at by peeps cause I suck lmao) in the middle of the night around mop, but I loved the world so much I didn't care about other peeps

Then the Cosby suite happened and then shadowlands, it was like seeing my literal childhood fall apart, but seeing metzen say "if you care just a little bit, come home" tugged at my heartstrings

[subtle oar]

Incorrect, but w/e

[silent urchin]

Shadowlands was like 90% written and planned by afrasiabi anyway, who was one of the original guys alongside metzen (I say planned, apparently he never really wrote shit down and just told people what to do spontaneously in meetings)

dragonflight is the one that was mostly under danusers leadership

[iron hare]

But Remeber afrasabi was intentionally fucking up the story after legion (according to rumor anyway)

I don't like him either he sucks obv

[tepid fiber]

Source on it being intentional?

[iron hare]

I'll try and find it for you

[tepid fiber]

Appreciated, as long as it's not an opinion article or forum post

[silent urchin]

It's hard to know what he was actually doing, but there was certainly a lot of conflict within the story team and there's been insiders who said he seemed to make decisions almost at random and leave everyone else to try and make it make sense

Also are all dwarves, gnomes, and anything else that got hit with the curse of flesh robots too?

[lone mantle]

I have been playing World of Warcraft since 2004, and I can relate to your experiences on a personal level.

[iron hare]

And obv metzen isn't completely innocent, he def knew, but I gurantee his anxiety and depression came from that, the post was like right a year before everything came out

[iron hare]

Yeah it was rough sometimes people going like "you suck" but I was bullied in the real world, at least In Azeroth I could get up and try again ❤️❤️❤️

[iron hare]

https://kaylriene.com/2022/01/25/sylvanas-the-afrasiabi-sabotage-and-what-it-means-for-the-story-of-warcraft/

I'll try to find a better source

[iron hare]

I was born in 2003 I literally grew up with wow ❤️

[warm topaz]

noo you broke the fourth wall Algalon 😭

hahahah

[tepid fiber]

That would be appreciated, because even the stuff this one cites is rather meh and relies a lot on "trust me bro"

[iron hare]

Tbf "trust me bro" is the most your gonna get with rumors like this

[hazy kettle]

I mean, to fan the flames, we are also robots.

[sullen dawn]

And the first order of business was to wipe away the robots

[sullen dawn]

No

[hazy kettle]

Either we are just robots, like the Titans, like the Death Panteon, and none of it matters in the end - or we are alive (as robots) and so are they. Player Characters are, lore-wise, offshoots of the mortal races (or, in the case of the Earthen, literal stone golems that are 3D-printed )

[iron hare]

It's why I said (according to rumor) but honestly, considering the timleline of everything and this is gonna sound weird but I like to write and my mom was an author so you can get a sixth sense for this kind of stuff, you can tell when someone puts love in something vs when they don't, musicians appearntly can also do the same where you can tell the musicians mood through how they play

Bfa and shadowlands had no love

None

Warlords was shit but there was love in it

[sullen dawn]

Warlords was cool in many ways

Lore and zones were peak

And the raids were really good

[iron hare]

Agreed

[sullen dawn]

There just wasn't enough content for non raiders, and the garrison took too many dev resources away from other sruff

[hazy kettle]

Yesn't - humans, gnomes and dwarves are offshoots of their progenitor robots.

[iron hare]

Honestly the only bit of love shadowlands had was that garrosh scene

[sullen dawn]

WoD would make a great remix expansion

[sullen dawn]

I play a tauren

[hazy kettle]

Which was one dev making that scene. ._.

[iron hare]

Exactly, but there's a reason why the garrosh scene was the only "THIS IS AWESOME" moment the player base had

[hazy kettle]

Congrats, you were pooped into existance without us having a viable lore explanation yet. (Currently also on my Tauren Shaman)

[iron hare]

When you cook with love, people enjoy your food more

[sullen dawn]

Taurens are the first ones duh

[hazy kettle]

I did enjoy the Anduin-Cinematic (bar the Arthas part, that was horseshit), I did enjoy the Anduin-9.1 Cinematic (where he steals Kyrestia's sigil), uhh...

[sullen dawn]

The maw was cool too

[hazy kettle]

[iron hare]

Oh that uther cutscene

[hazy kettle]

The Maw was cool, yes.

[iron hare]

In the v begining

Whatever the harbingers version of shadowlands was

With uther

That was really good

[hazy kettle]

I did enjoy Korthia, albeit hating the GODDAMN "lets make them wait weeks for X transmog" DESIGN

[sullen dawn]

PvP/war mode in the maw was delicious pre mounts

[iron hare]

"You're soul is wounded?? WHO DID THIS TO YOU?!" "He was my student"

That was powerful

And was amazingly written

[hazy kettle]

Funnily enough, I feel like it had some poor moments.

[sullen dawn]

I was heavily medicated following a surgery when korthia was out so I actually really enjoy it lmao

[iron hare]

I hated the maw

[hazy kettle]

Can you tell I'm a massive contrarian yet?

[iron hare]

Just orange and rock

[sullen dawn]

Hey I loved the maw (for PvP and danger) and korthia (due to the drugs) so I'm with ya buddy

[iron hare]

Korthia I hated so much

That's when I gave up

I played 10.2 just to beat the jailer cause to me the jailer felt symbolic of blizzard

[lone mantle]

My reach extends to all planes.

[iron hare]

But on lfr and stuff like that

[hazy kettle]

My main issue with the cinematic (Uther's Harbringers cinematic) was the clusterfudge they turned their Kyrian betrayal into - Uther was cut by a Mournblade, sent to Azeroth by the Jailer which Kyrestia didn't want to know shit off (the Mournblade + Azeroth has death-slaves parts), leading to her joining said Jailer-

[sullen dawn]

And BFA was my favourite expansion so you're not the only contrarian :p

[iron hare]

I'm talking about the cinematic itself

[sullen dawn]

War mode in 8.0 and 8.1 was S tier

[hazy kettle]

It just made me so livid seeing this whole intricate network of "... DOES NOBODY QUESTION ONE SINGLE THING ABOUT THIS?" play out.

[sullen dawn]

When it joined up with the faction invasions

[iron hare]

Everything that came after was shit

[hazy kettle]

Haven't seen it in a while, had my criticisms but it is damn well made and beautifully acted. 😗

[tropic trail]

No, BFA was terrible. 😂

[iron hare]

Imo wow is at its best when it combines classic fantasy with comedy and idk what the word is but playfulness

[sullen dawn]

Not really. The azerite grind was painful (especially for alts) and warfronts needed to be more difficult but everything else rocked

[iron hare]

The Maw, korthia and zereth did not have that

I did not play dragon flight but it's looking like they're getting that back

[sullen dawn]

Some of the best zones ever, war mode was peak, the music, some fantastic raids (dazar alor), loads of allied races, cool grounded story that felt like real warcraft

[hazy kettle]

So you really enjoyed Dragonflight

Aloofness, that's what you mean.

[iron hare]

^

[hazy kettle]

Ohhhhhhhh, valid.

[sullen dawn]

Kul Tiras and Zandalar as some of the best zones they've ever done

[iron hare]

Like let me think from bfa

Waycrest manor

[sullen dawn]

And the theme was on point

[hazy kettle]

... yesn't.

[iron hare]

Or honestly kul tiras

Because it was serious, but it also had whimsy and charm to it

[hazy kettle]

Very pretty - very annoying at certain points.

(Don't quote me, I don't remember what parts pissed me off.)

[iron hare]

Creepy place but look haunted mansion and then they run with the theme

[sullen dawn]

Perfect balance for wow theme wise for me. Serious but whimsical

DF was too whimsical

BFA got that balance right

[iron hare]

Or battle for dazar a lor, a big Serious war raid but also look! You're turning into sheep bombs, you're fighting a golem made of literal money, you're fighting a giant monkey

[hazy kettle]

I think that's just opinion based, but I get the frustration with it.

[iron hare]

It was serious and grounded, but it was also funny

[hazy kettle]

I did hear that criticism (of Dragonflight) plenty tho.

[sullen dawn]

Yes everything I'm saying here is an opinion haha

[iron hare]

I agree, but with df that was the point

[hazy kettle]

... entirely valid, carry on. (-ing myself for my dumb comment)

[iron hare]

They needed it to be happy go lucky

War within looks REALLY good on that end

[sullen dawn]

DF was medication post SL depression

[hazy kettle]

Dragonflight (in the beginning) was the B-Plot (which made no sense, because it was tense as all heck due to the Primalists, yet they put a lot of whimsy in each zone still).

[iron hare]

With it being simple and classic, and then going full wacky with hallowfall and azj Kahet

[hazy kettle]

You need a B-Plot to distract you from the heavy A-Plot, otherwise the viewer is going to get bored / overstimulated.

[tropic trail]

Yea shadowlands got me depressed at the end, not gonna lie.

[sullen dawn]

Honestly the TWW theme appeals to me A LOT

[iron hare]

|| and later, considering we're going to the undermine and fighting goblins, we're gonna have a lot of fun ||

11.1 Leak spoilers *^

[hazy kettle]

NOT CONFIRMED

[sullen dawn]

We better go to undermine

I bet it's gonna be smelly Rootlands 😦

With goblin invasion

[hazy kettle]

YOU BETTER SPOILER THIS! (kidding)

[iron hare]

Like what's a great example

Oh

Return to karazhan

[sullen dawn]

Because what we need is another life/tree themed zone

[iron hare]

THAT was wow

[hazy kettle]

... oh my lawd, Return to Karazhan was hot as heck. ❤️

[sullen dawn]

Haven't had one of those in a while

[iron hare]

That was what little Akira wanted

Serious but fun

Cataclysm questing was peak

[hazy kettle]

... look, Toby, I don't wanna depress you further - but Haronir.

[sullen dawn]

I was being sarcastic haha

[hazy kettle]

Whatcha think ancient-nature-trolls gonna lead us to. :x ❤️

[iron hare]

Remeber in the goblin starting zone when you would use the rocket launchers to fly goblins up and then if you killed the mobs you could literally loot the keys 😂

[sullen dawn]

I like the idea of harronir. I just want the zone to be undermine, not their Rootlands

[hazy kettle]

Same, Undermine would be a great win for Goblinkind

[sullen dawn]

It's the underground expansion, Undermine should get a full patch treatment

It would be such a fun zone

[iron hare]

Agreed

[sullen dawn]

Like mechagnome island on steroids

[iron hare]

Fake trees, Smokey sky like hallowvall, lots of tunnels where you can see an underbelly with slavery and gambling

Ff7 gold saucer but a city and underground

[tropic trail]

But world saga looks promising 😂

[iron hare]

Give me that

[sullen dawn]

Blizz could go so wild with an undermine zone

[iron hare]

Gambling mini games, skyriding racing bets etc

Like when blizz has a grounded theme they're incredible

[sullen dawn]

Yeh it's their weird high concept stuff that usually sucks

[iron hare]

Sepulcher imo is one of my least favorite raids of all time theme wise (I watched videos and beat jailer) cause it wasn't grounded at all

Now take ulduar

[sullen dawn]

When they stick to warcraft fundamental themes they do a great job

[iron hare]

Ulduar was funny

[sullen dawn]

Yeh zerith mortus was an acid trip

[iron hare]

Ulduar was silly

But it had moments that made it important

[iron hare]

Antourus was the only time they pulled it off super well

[tropic trail]

Zereth Mortis was epic zone, same with Bastion and Revendreth.

[sullen dawn]

Even that felt like a natural continuation of the themes established in WC rts and tbc

[iron hare]

Zereth mortis imo was anything but, it was grass and floating balls

Like that's it, a bunch of balls?

[sullen dawn]

Zereth Mortis and bastion are two of my least favourite zones ever

They make me feel sick even thinking about them

[iron hare]

Like give me flowers that glow, a sky that's a bunch of fractals, a ground that's falling apart like with wires like a computer

[tropic trail]

I have specific taste it seems 😅

[iron hare]

Bastion was fun

[sullen dawn]

Give me kul Tiras any day of the week

[iron hare]

Well not fun but like

It's ok

Maldraxxus was cool

Cause it had variety and they sold it hard

Revendreth was excellevrnt

Denathrius is awesome, he's a smug mofo and I love it

[sullen dawn]

Revdenreth was cool but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth cos it's where dreadlords got ruined

[iron hare]

That's why I have my own head cannon to make it all better 😂

[sullen dawn]

Everything before that was awesome

Mind controlling players in war mode.to jump off the really high parts of the map

Pre flying, and they'd have to find their way back to their corpse

[iron hare]

I hope for the raid they do something like the grim guzzler

That would be dope

[tropic trail]

I wonder where is that sword and Denathrius now.

[iron hare]

There's always that one trash fight in raids, imagine a bar fight themed boss

[sullen dawn]

Retconned out of existence

Hopefully

[sullen dawn]

Motorbike racing raid fight

[iron hare]

Honestly give us the hot rod back

I'm sad it didn't become a Mount after

Honestly how were the dragon flight raids

I didn't play them, but I liked how they were made to be a return to form

Vault - rage fire chasm vibes
Aberrus - blackwing lair vibes
Then amidrasill with that night elf feel

[sullen dawn]

Aberrus was very cool

Although the dracythr boss focus was a bit lame

[pulsar minnow]

Introducing World of Warcraft’s 14th expansion: Rise of Denathrius. Part one of the World of Warcraft: Shadowlands Saga

😁👍

[opaque pewter]

I really liked Zereth mortis though
The music and visuals in particular. And they quite delivered on the mysterious creation sandbox theme

The zone was quite a step up in filling it with hidden stuff, which was used as a basis for DF zones

[tropic trail]

I requested Legion remix for the next one.

[sullen dawn]

Legion was fun but I think WoD needs it more

Redemption arc

[iron hare]

Question as someone who hadn't played what is remix

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/SarahCotner/status/1818308396166402293

Sarah Cotner 💙 (@SarahCotner) on X

We do actually listen to feedback - turns out an mmo has multiple sub communities within it so sometimes something that might seem like an 'easy' change to you would negatively impact others.

Publicly acknowledging feedback opens the door to unnecessary harassment on all sides.

Twitter · Jul 30, 2024, 3:31 PM

she is so right on that

[crystal pond]

Wait
There will be no short cinematics? Like legacies, warbringers, etc?

[plain violet]

💯

[warm topaz]

there will be yeah

i was expecting one today

beta build today?

[iron hare]

Shouldnt music be coming out soon

[warm topaz]

yeah we are all waiting that here

OMG it can be today 🫣

[sullen dawn]

There SHOULD be but we don't know for sure

[sullen dawn]

Likely this week's build or next

[warm topaz]

last week was Wednesday so who knows yeah

[sullen dawn]

Honestly beta builds can drop any day of the week

It's not like retail where it's always Tue/wed

But Tue-Thurs is usual

We've seen beta builds drop on Friday evening haha

At like 9pm cali time

[warm topaz]

yeah but they usually follow a pattern

[sullen dawn]

Yeh generally between Tuesday and Thursday around 4pm their time

[autumn jetty]

is it just me or did the other realms kinda just dropped from face of planet on beta

[sullen dawn]

Yeh they've been down for more than a week

[autumn jetty]

they went down after the global network went down.

[errant wraith]

do we only have access to a very short quest that ends right after finishing one radiant quest?

[candid ruin]

beta realms are back

[silent urchin]

that's some chunky class tuning

and priest got a buncha talents changed from 2 to 1 point

[warm topaz]

is the new build there already?

is music anywhere? 🥹

okay no new build pushed yet, there's still hope

[candid ruin]

blizzard lying in blue post again

[sullen dawn]

New build coming "later this week"

Tomorrow or Wednesday

They didn't mention music but they usually don't in patch notes

Still very possible it includes the soundtrack

If not, next week for sure as 2 weeks before expansion then

[warm topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-twitch-youtube-wot-huh-gif-26318085

[leaden sentinel]

guys, how to get to the new zone (in beta)?

[leaden sentinel]

trying to get this quest

Continue the campaign by accepting the quest "Surface Bound" in Azj-Kahet.

[deep pawn]

Mythic 6/6 track confirmed. I still dislike that change a lot

Unless they drastically increase the number of crests a key drops

100 timed +9s or higher to fully upgrade a set if you manage to get every slot from the vault

[silent urchin]

good news is you'll never get every slot filled, so it's actually fewer than 100 /s

3 cloaks every week forever

[deep pawn]

It sure as hell doesn't take 400 raid boss kills.

[zealous sedge]

they should ad a once a month token via quest that lets you advance your track to the next slot

[deep pawn]

The devs clearly think they have to protect raiding and I don't get it

If raiding isn't standing on its own as epic content without offering the best loot as fast as possible, maybe raiding needs to change

[ember blaze]

gl with that

same deal with pvp. People dont like it, but theyre unwilling to do more drastic changes into how it works/plays

[deep pawn]

They've drastically changed pvp gearing every expansion for years now

[ember blaze]

yeah gear….

not sure how that tackles people just not finding pvp fun to play

[deep pawn]

And they've experimented more with PVP lately than ever

[ember blaze]

i dont see it

[deep pawn]

PvP is always a niche thing

[ember blaze]

to me drastic would be making pvp more like plunderstorm

[deep pawn]

Outside of specific games like mobas

[ember blaze]

pvp is just fundamentally unfun

imagine losing control of your character for so much time in pve?

[deep pawn]

There's a reason every pvp MMO has failed, it's a loud vocal community that gets off on being able to farm people

[ember blaze]

yeah you cant force ppl to participate

but if league manages to make pvp fun even for casuals

idk i feel like you can make it better

tackle the combat

[sullen dawn]

RBGs are hella fun

Especially with organized groups

[deep pawn]

League's combat isn't particularly fun to me.

I think it has some serious sunken cost players just like WoW

[upper pasture]

LoL has a HUGE sunken cost, i mean it's gotten better with PC GP but still that was like 15 years after the game has been out they've milked all those players all those years and that's not even considering the skins

[iron hare]

Hi guys I'm bored and I want opinions (and I'm a couple hard seltzers in)

Do you guys like kaz algar more then the dragon isles

[warm topaz]

In this alpha/beta cycle I've tried to avoid every TWW post or spoiler, whether it's about zones, lore, characters, etc...

Overall I feel like since I started following the datamining process and all the PTRs etc... my enjoyment of the game has decreased considerably (I still enjoy it a lot). I feel like, for me, a lot of what I loved before about WoW was that excitement for the new, seeing the cinematics for the first time, meeting the characters, the zones etc...

I wanna see how I feel in the TWW after having avoided many spoilers and not having "burned" the zones without the expansion being released.

not the answer to your question but i wanted to share that hahahaha

[pulsar minnow]

I wish every expansion that I could go back to how I was for Legion launch

I had basically zero spoilers beyond what I saw Preach Gaming mention in his class review videos, and had no idea about the major spoilers or the zones

[warm topaz]

same, Legion was my first launch

[pulsar minnow]

Same as well!

Broken Isles will forever hold a special place in my heart

[iron hare]

Honestly I understand you completley, when legion was out I had no idea what it was because I was like 12-13

When wod dropped I was like 10 so I didn't know things like wowhead or stuff like that

So randomly I would long on and then boom new xpac

And I had no idea what happened

It just happened

And I got hooked on

In

Legion was special, I was just old enough to be in a guild, understand complex systems, experience questing but I was still a child so everything had that wonder

[dense plover]

is the narrator for this cutscene known or just 'a narrator'?

[pulsar minnow]

I feel like every expansion has this sort of "feeling/vibe" that can't exactly be put into words properly. Legion was just something else and I don't know if it was because I was still relatively new to the game and everything was fresh (I started playing in 6.1), or if the expansion was just that good, etc..

[pulsar minnow]

I can't figure out who the VA is. He sounds familiar. But seemingly just a Narrator

[dense plover]

i more meant - is it in universe or not?

[iron hare]

I still sucked and got carried through everything, and at times said guild lead wanted to make sure I knew that, but I didn't care it was so cool

[dense plover]

especially since the narrator says "our world"

i think its in universe....

[iron hare]

I know exactly what you mean, the start of an expansion is so special

[warm topaz]

i was trying to say something about that, i struggle a lot on speaking about large concepts in English hahahaha

[iron hare]

Later on and what I experience with bfa, everything gets so mathematical or "you need x to do this" people forget to just take everything in

[iron hare]

Also I meant raid lead, the guild lead loved me and was protective but the raid leader hated me lol

[pulsar minnow]

Im glad to see im not the only one who's had this phenomenon or whatever. I feel like the trailers and then the actual expansion give off very different vibes that suddenly take hold once beta/datamining starts.

Also on this note one thing that confused the shit out of me was when they revealed BFA and the colors were all desaturated, and then the actual game was much more saturated and everything looked strange

[iron hare]

I remember being 11, and doing chores for mom so I could have enough money to buy the illidan Novel and reading it before school

And then the podcast came out

I meant audio drama

And then harbinger

And then the pre patch event

Legion through and through was a personal journey

Because blizz did such good build up everything mattered

And it kept that attitude throughout

Nighthold wasn't just an average raid it was personal, you built a journey with thalyssra for weeks

Tomb of sargeras you heard about in legend throughout

And Argus was just wow

Breathtaking

[uncut vault]

It's Nozdormu's voice actor

[pulsar minnow]

It set such a high bar for story that I don't think any expansion has lived up to as well. Like every expansion that doesn't have a giant city with a campaign at max level just feels... wrong. Partially why I was so hyped for Azj-Kahet and have avoided any max level content related to it

[uncut vault]

So probably semi-canon, given the whole meta aspect of time magic

[dense plover]

honestly that makes sense as canon

[iron hare]

And even then, azj kahet is just your first step into a huge journey

Nerub ar palace isn't just "the first raid" Ala uldir

It's the first raid In a 3 part tale

Everything means something now

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah, im really hoping for a good follow-through with the war within

it honestly feels like a continuation of Legion/BFA

(and seems like its pretending Shadowlands never happened which im all on board for)

[iron hare]

I mean

You can tell metzen was pissed

I mean look

[warm topaz]

@pulsar minnow I will think about what I want to say about what you wrote before and I'll tell you tomorrow hahahaha, too late here to think in 2 lenguague, I really want to express it

[iron hare]

Yeah it rlly does

We're following right where we're meant to be rn

Although it's interesting csuse tww was always meant to happen even before metzen came back

Midnight will be metzens full baby

[pulsar minnow]

my favorite thing about what they've done this expansion is introduce this subterranean world that frankly, is super disconnected thematically and aesthetically from the rest of Azeroth (speaking mainly about Hallowfall and the Harronir) but it still feels like it fits in so perfectly

[iron hare]

So I wonder what the og plan for tww was meant to be

[iron hare]

The thing is, is that hallowfall is completely connected because they tied it in to one of wows oldest characters

Like it's not alien anymore, you know who the arathi are

My first thing I did was be a dk, so obviously the scarlet enclave was my first real villian

Like you know what the dwarves are and you know what to expect

And obviously azj kahet everyone knows about the lost nerubian zone

Like idk if you Remeber wrath but azjol Nerub and Ann kahet are fucking beautiful

[iron hare]

I love that instead of going alien they're going back

Like midnight is gonna be so tbc coded

Elves, Sunwell

Etc

[pulsar minnow]

yeah I'm really excited to see what they do to Quel Thalas

Praying it'll finally look like this

[iron hare]

I'm excited for azshara

No way she dosent make a comeback

She's gonna get the illidan treatment im telling you

[deep pawn]

She better not

Unless she becomes a void lord who promises to leave us alone

[iron hare]

In war bringers she tried to save everyone, she was shown looking at the children, and then later it was revealed she was going to kill nzoth, so she has the same morally grey vibe as illidan being against kill jaeden in tbc

Plus she has a connection to xal'atath with giving us the blade in nyalotha

Like the set up is there already

There is no better time for her to come back

[deep pawn]

She is coming back already after Xal does her stuff this expansion. That's literally already in game.

There was never a way she misses the elf expansion

[glass flicker]

I hope they take down the statues of Kael'thas.

Have statues of Anastarion instead.

[ember blaze]

nah put xalatath instead 😈

[glass flicker]

Listen, I love Xal'atath, but she has no importance whatsoever to blood elven culture.

[iron hare]

Yep agreed completely

Honestly if we got the scrapped nerubian zone

Then I hope with azshara coming back we get the scrapped well of eternity raid we were meant to get

[glass flicker]

And maybe Illidan will finally be Illi-done with bullying Sargeras for Midnight.

Maybe we can Illi-dine on some burgers in Thunder Bluff while we watch the world burn.

[iron hare]

Nah last titan

We need at least one sargeras fight

[iron hare]

Is it?? Where

[glass flicker]

Exactly. So Illidummy could return at the end of Midnight to tell us that Sargeras is Sar-gone-ras.

As such, explaining why the Titans had to come back to Ulduar.

[iron hare]

Imo sargeras is gonna break free, we fight him, titans come down and are like "well done heroes! and now.."

Dun dun dun players vs titans breaks out

Sargeras as the last boss as midnight would be dope actuslly, and it would make perfect sense with midnight being tbc coded

[glass flicker]

I doubt they'd give us the biggest bad evil guy fight in the middle of a trilogy.

The final boss of Midnight is probably a manifestation of a Void Lord. Or even Azeroth herself.

[iron hare]

The problem is, is that sargeras Is no longer the biggest bad guy

[glass flicker]

SHUT.

Shadylands didn't happen.

[iron hare]

It's amman'thul

[glass flicker]

Why do you think Aman'Thul is the BBEG?

[iron hare]

Algalon the observer

Amman thul is the titan of time and order, his reflection odyn is a pos

As explained by lore such as his treatment of helya

Amman Thuls servant was willing to destroy the world, and the titans destroyed thousands of worlds according to him

[worn crown]

I loved Shadowlands setting, covenants lore, first ones and fractal stuff. Just not the main plot. It was a refreshing injection of new lore into WoW. It just irks me that ppl still come up with "pretending ir never happened". It DID happen. Anduin is in the state he is currently is because of SL, so no, Blizz and METZEN isn't ignoring it. Also, Denathrius will come again (as it will other things) from SL, you folks can be sure of that. I hate BFA with a passion, especially the "faction conflict" that Afrabiasi shoehorned into WoW again, but you won't see me claiming to "ignore that it happened..." And I hate nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia... (like "everything was better in my time"...). C'mon, take off the tinted rose glass.

[glass flicker]

Odyn is a doodoohead. Imagine testing your champions three times, the third time being as they're off to fight your biggest mistake.

[iron hare]

And isn't he ammans creation

Not a good look

[glass flicker]

The Titan Keepers are kind of the Pantheon's creations. Not just Aman'Thul's.

[iron hare]

Shadowlands can be easily fixed with "the first ones were the og leaders, titans made by zerith ordus gained sentience and took control of zereth mortis"

[iron hare]

No but odyn is Amman thul

Like how freyja is eonar

[glass flicker]

What the bro is talking about??

[iron hare]

Ok the keepers could possibly be a reflection of the titans

[glass flicker]

If Odyn is Aman'Thul, then Thorim must be Golganneth.

[iron hare]

Right?

[glass flicker]

Except he ISN'T.

[iron hare]

Like how freyja could be a reflection of eonar

Just on a smaller scale

[iron hare]

Nah mimiron

[uncut vault]

Did the leveling servers go down again? I swear the patch notes said they were up this build

[iron hare]

They both are creators

[uncut vault]

Oh later this week, nevermind lol

[iron hare]

Thorim = sargeras

[glass flicker]

They're different beings with different perspectives. Why else would they help the champions of Azeroth with smaller scale stuff?

[iron hare]

Godly figure who got manipulated by void

[glass flicker]

WHAT THE-

No, I'm done. Bye.

[iron hare]

(Sif)

If you get offended by a theory then your not worth it lmao

[glass flicker]

I don't see how it's offense. And, Loken is far more similar to Sargeras than Thorim.

Now, byee.

[iron hare]

I mean you took offense

See how mad you are right now?

[glass flicker]

Are you a psychoanalyst, or is deadpan truly dead?

[iron hare]

I mean you're the one getting mad

[glass flicker]

Deadpan is dead, then.

[iron hare]

You're furious rn

[broken solar]

Helloo

Spanish hear?

[glass flicker]

Sure, feel free to think that.

[iron hare]

Over a theory

I mean I don't need to think it

"Are you deadpan (insult)"

"No, I'm done (over a diffrence of opinion) bye. (Condescending dismissal)"

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-alisae-gif-18112934

Here's the psychoanalysis.

[iron hare]

Evidence is right there I don't need a psychology degree

[iron hare]

Who's his brother

According to lore

But I'll be careful cause you get offended easily

[glass flicker]

Who is who's brother?

[iron hare]

So I'll just say you're completely right and leave it at that ok ❤️

[iron hare]

You're right no one is anyone's brother ❤️

[upper pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-surprised-gasp-what-cat-shock-gif-16063081942052721346

[iron hare]

I'll just let this speak for itself

[glass flicker]

Ask a question and dismiss it seconds after when I asked if you refer to Loken and Thorim or Sargeras. Jesus Christmas Christ on a skateboard.

[iron hare]

I said thorim

[glass flicker]

No, you just asked "who's his brother"

Bye.

[iron hare]

You're right, I never said thorim was like sargeras

[glass flicker]

What the fuck. Again.

That's unrelated to what I said just now.

[upper pasture]

just block each other, this is going nowhere fast

[iron hare]

Yeah this is derailing

Sorry you're too aggressive for me you got heated rlly quickly

[glass flicker]

For the final father-fucking time, I'm not mad.

[iron hare]

"Father-fucking" is usually what someone would say when they get heated

But here

[glass flicker]

:/

[iron hare]

I'm sorry that I offended you, honestly I am, I don't want to cause drama

[glass flicker]

Deadpan is dead. You killed it.

[iron hare]

I'm sorry

[upper pasture]

and pointing out how someone is "mad" over and over again is usually a good indicator of someone who's trolling or pissed off themselves. so like either rest the convo and try again or just like stop cause going back and forth about who's mad or not is....well not productive.

[iron hare]

Didn't I apologize

[glass flicker]

Was it profuse and forthright?

[upper pasture]

yes, seconds before i hit enter.

[iron hare]

Like all I said was titan keepers = reflection of titans

Pointing out someone is upset isht trolling it's a fact

[upper pasture]

pointing it out once, sure. pointing it out every time you respond to them.

not so much

[glass flicker]

Yeah, it's just ultra yikes behavior.

Makes you a lame tool who just likes being a nuisance.

[iron hare]

I mean look, if I express something and someone gets mad I'm not gonna go "you're right I'm wrong" immediately

[upper pasture]

you don't have to. you can tell them they are mad and if they choose not to cool down and just stop talking. you don't have to respond everytime with "well you're mad bro"

but i digress, you two can enjoy your theory crafting convo

[iron hare]

Still, I apologize and they kept going, and why should I let someone that's mad control everything

[glass flicker]

I wasn't enjoying it, sorry.

[iron hare]

Like you're basically saying "if they get mad, let them be mad and walk away" which I totally get and is totally valid

[glass flicker]

Even if being mad was the case, I kept wanting to walk away and you were just pinging me back.

[iron hare]

But at the same time that philosophy isn't valid for things like theory crafting, if it was like a street fight you're totally right

[glass flicker]

So tell me, am I mad or are you?

[iron hare]

See said person your defending is trying to pull the switcharoo

[glass flicker]

Am I?

[upper pasture]

i'm not defending anyone, i just suggested yall just block each other if you can't have a normal convo.

[glass flicker]

Good advice™

[iron hare]

I listened

I really wasn't trying to start an argument

I really wasn't

[glass flicker]

Why block me and still read my messages?

What the fuck is going on?

[iron hare]

Saying titan keepers = reflection of titans was in no way me trying to stir up controversy

I promise

[upper pasture]

idk the event needs to be 30 mins so we can have less time in discord tbh

[iron hare]

I mean if it bothers you so much

Walk away

This conversation isn't productive

[upper pasture]

sigh

[iron hare]

Someone got too heated over diffence in lore, I took advice and block them, everything is just detailing

Derailing

I meant no harm in saying titan keepers = titans, but somehow I did

So I'll take a step back for a bit

[glass flicker]

Anyways... y'all like the new login screen music?

I prefer it over the Dragonflight one. By a lot, too.

[iron hare]

It's decent

[upper pasture]

i like the new music so far but idk about better than DF login. we will see come the launch and everything is finalized

[glass flicker]

There is an iconic tune in this theme that is lacking in the Dragonflight theme.

https://youtu.be/SAe4_y0J_Ek?si=QylPalzFef1ZYJ5y

The sequence starting at 0:16

It's the true Warcraft theme, in my opinion.

Of course, the Dragonflight theme (and every login screen theme, for that matter) has that sequence, but for some it's much more subtle. And this might be controversial, but WoD had the best login screen music simply because of this iconic sequence.

[deep pawn]

Forbidden Reach book

[iron hare]

Ah, I'll check wowpedis, I didn't play dragonflight so I'll go check it out but big w for blizzard not wasting an awesome character

Honestly Imo the azshara fight felt extremely lacking, it had alot going on but it lacked the Epic vibe

But midnight is perfect for a comeback

[austere gazelle]

I expect a kerrigan move coming from Azshara

[tropic trail]

It’s something like Warcraft leitmotif 😂

[sleek solar]

Very much agree

We needed the war music, not shitty hobbit music

(Hobbit music is cool, DF music was shitty)

[glass flicker]

I wouldn't say it's shitty. Just not the sort of theme that you want to hear in a game with WAR in its title.

Dragonflight's theme is too uplifting. The War Within's theme, by contrast, is more epic.

That fits.

[acoustic kraken]

it's too uplifting even for the dragonracing. its entirely too whimsical

[sullen dawn]

Gimme that fat juicy music build today please blizz

[vague sail]

Hey
Anyone knows where i could find the loots for the mythic dungeons coming in TWW that are from previous seasons but in the mythic rotation ?

[hazy kettle]

Once the M+ season begins it will be listed as current season in the dungeon journal

[vague sail]

Alright thanks !
But I have read that the mythic 0 will now be also following the mythic + rotation. And mythic 0 is available 1 week before mythic + right ?

So how will we be able to do for example siege of boralus mythic in TWW level and siege of boralus mythic in BFA level
This is what i struggle to understand

[sleek solar]

This

I loved Shadowlands music

Then once I logged in and hear DF music I was like

https://tenor.com/view/joe-pesci-what-the-fuck-wtf-wtf-is-that-what-the-fuck-is-this-gif-24937450

It never grew on me

[little hound]

Seems like i missed drama again.

[sleek solar]

What drama?

[hazy kettle]

Oh, didn't know that - hope they kept his in mind and added a solution

[dense plover]

i mean - maruukai has some of the best music in the history of wow, but you do you

[sleek solar]

We were talking about theme music, but no worries!

[dense plover]

oh - i liked the DF theme

they used it in all of the races

it felt thematic - heroic but not intense

[sleek solar]

I didn't like it at all, but I do agree that zone music was amazing

[opal storm]

I like most of the logging screen themes(if that what you are talking about). But I wish TWW theme was... longer

[dense plover]

might end up when the expac launches, but dont hold your breath

[deep pawn]

I don't believe they did

Once the season starts the legacy dungeons will be level 80 for everyone.

[hazy kettle]

Oh, that... would be very shite.

So which previous dungeons are M+ rotation for Season 1?

[deep pawn]

Necrotic Wake, Siege of Boralus, Mists of Tirna Scithe, and Grim Batol.

[hazy kettle]

... huh, they really need to think this through.

[deep pawn]

people soloing old m0s is probably a niche activity

[hazy kettle]

Valid, was thinking more so about the mogs. But also, ye.

[dense plover]

People have been playing and liking them

They’ve made changes to how the dungeons feel in M+ to fix some of the old complaints

Bringing back a Cata dungeon is neat too

Adds more potential for future M+ seasons

I don’t think we will ever see anything older than that due to significant changes in dungeon design

Dungeons older than Cata are enormous and take forever

[hazy kettle]

Nono, I meant locking people out of running the old dungeon variant.

[dense plover]

Is that the case? I thought you just changed the difficulty or something

Aren’t they only in the mythic rotation so if you set the difficulty to normal or heroic, you’ll get the old version

[hazy kettle]

👀 My reply, first one of this all, was to someone asking about M+ rotations in Season 1 (where can they look at the loot drops coming) and them stating "M0 is part of the M+ rotation now and available only at M0 level" - paraphrased that a bit.

So ye, I'm confused too. <-< I'd recommend scrolling up and reading it, since I may or may not have forgor something.

[dense plover]

I didn’t think you could run a mythic dungeon that was out of rotation ON mythic

But either way, you can get the mogs on normal or heroic, and I’m pretty sure the mythic drops are just moved to new mythic

[ionic terrace]

DF 10.2.7 -> TWW 11.0.2, i assume for stuff like launch testing

[silent urchin]

yeah, 11.0.2 should be the one coming tuesday before early access launch

[warm topaz]

thoughts on build today?

there's still time but idk, could be tomorrow too

[ionic terrace]

build out

[warm topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-god-its-happening-ok-stay-calm-the-office-gif-6091046

[ionic terrace]

login screen fixed

full login music is in

[warm topaz]

OMG

[dense plover]

its longer than 2 min?

[ionic terrace]

yes

[dense plover]

YES

i found it

[warm topaz]

all music is in

[iron hare]

MUSIC??

ooooh

[dense plover]

source?

@warm topaz

[warm topaz]

YouTube wowhead

[dense plover]

oh dang ok - they be uploading

[iron hare]

I'm listening now

Hallowfall is soothing

[warm topaz]

people is gonna love the main theme

i'm sure of that

[dense plover]

hallowfall during the day

i suspect night will be scary

or uh - light and shadow

not day and night

[iron hare]

These song are v idk

Silly but in like a good way

[dense plover]

soundtrack is 12.5 hours long guys

[iron hare]

Playful

[dense plover]

like - with repeats and stuff

DF was 7.3

lol - the login theme references the hobbit music

[iron hare]

Big cataclysm vibes from the music

Imo

[dense plover]

tbf, cata was similar in a lot of ways

it also had a hobbit dwarf area

and the possible death of the world

[iron hare]

Yeah and undermine/kezan

[dense plover]

yep

this is cata 2.0 but not redoing all the zones

[iron hare]

How is the questing

I heard it was short but v good

[dense plover]

like how legion was tbc 2.0 and SLs was wrath 2.0

thats accurate

cutscenes will make it better

endgame systems are fun/diverse

[iron hare]

I like that they said they intended it to be you go out do side quest and then do story in chunks

I like that, gives good variety

[dense plover]

there are loads of side quests

[ionic terrace]

oh it's also a release build

[dense plover]

they even took the one side quest at the end of ringing deeps everyone wanted to be a main quest and made it a main quest

[iron hare]

How would you say zones feel compared to df

[dense plover]

makes sense

[dense plover]

they feel a bit smaller sometimes (though they arent) and tbh less visually diverse within a zone, but more distinct between zones

[iron hare]

Ringing deeps is good (the music)

[ionic terrace]

o wow the dalaran music

[dense plover]

this login music is longer than normal - its 16 min instead of 10-12

[dense plover]

fallen dalaran or prepatch?

[ionic terrace]

fallen

very somber

[iron hare]

Dalaran 😭

Blizz stop doing this to me

[dense plover]

am i right that the music at like 9:50-ish in the login is hallowfall?

its got harp and crystalline sounds and such

[ionic terrace]

it's def a sad version of the legion music

[dense plover]

OOOOO

azj-kahet uses kalimba!

what an underused instrument

at least im 90% sure its azj-kahet

guessing off the login music

looks like a chunk of the soundtrack is character themes

we didnt get many of those in DF (if any?)

woah login music totally changes at 14 min - im assuming this is the Saga theme

yep

its a sped up version of the original wow strings in the background

[warm topaz]

it's really amazing

[dense plover]

idk if i want to spoil myself

[pulsar minnow]

can someone send fallen

also ngl this might be my favorite expansion main theme since Kingdoms Will Burn

[warm topaz]

https://youtu.be/7qDgj8AaE58?si=YxyeQsHKELf_EIew

[pulsar minnow]

oh got it

thanks

didnt realize they uploaded it already

[warm topaz]

it's perfect!

[pulsar minnow]

cant wait to listen to it

finishing main theme first

[warm topaz]

main theme is awesome too, so so good

https://youtu.be/H975Ab-Plrc?si=d5aboiwRSmrcIxbK

this is the one they've been using in promotional content

[iron hare]

Azj kahet is cool

[warm topaz]

i love that

[iron hare]

Imposing

[dense plover]

that doesnt work

its been removed for some reason

[warm topaz]

oh

weird

[iron hare]

This music is nice

Also they're all distinct

Which is a + df music all blended together

[dense plover]

DF music was distinct

this music has character themes and more unique themes because each zone is so different

cant reuse an inn theme when one is dwarven, one is nerubian, and one is arathi

or above ground vs underground

[iron hare]

Maybe if I played longer but eh it didn't stand out much to me Imo

Like Revendreth I still hum the tune

[dense plover]

maruukai my guy

best music in DF

i fly there in game just to chill to the music

[iron hare]

Granted I did not play dragon flight for long so it probably just didn't stick

[pulsar minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfpnVkw9e_E

Allerias theme goes nuts

theres so much music this time around

[deep pawn]

NEAL ACREE IS BACK?

[dense plover]

i love how the hallowfall inn music is so medieval

[dense plover]

i think he came back for a bit in Shadowlands actually

and has been doing some stuff off and on since

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Neal_Acree#Shadowlands he hasnt left

just a more limited role recently

[deep pawn]

pretty sure he said that that was just stuff they had left laying around, unless I'm mistaking him for another composer that left.

[dense plover]

i think youre mistaken

[warm topaz]

that was Russell yeah, not Neal

[dense plover]

https://youtu.be/qHLajwNFoy8?t=340 https://youtu.be/PmRotCiHLyU?si=7VA2ax-kMMjYQtzH directly referencing this was the instruments and such

very clever

its a different theme but its clearly evocative of the OG dwarf tavern music

lol ofc

its composed by the same GUY

i kinda like how over the top some of the music is

like the Warrens music?

sounds like a 90s video game like banjo kazooie or something

[pulsar minnow]

the World Soul Saga theme is actually amazing wow

[dense plover]

where is it?

because the one linked before is unavailable

[warm topaz]

they deleted it to renamed it

https://youtu.be/qhYG-cALu1o?si=dwDdmepxf7tKIQD1

[dense plover]

ah

I was right!

it is the sped up main title stuff

its more than that but it includes that

[dense plover]

this is either new or they moved him where the other weekly quests are

new vault screen finally working

3/6/12 delves is super reasonable

i like the images in each section being expac agnostic

does that second sentence mean that world quests count as a tier 1 delve?

reward preview for the theater troupe

regular delve tooltip was updated

[upper pasture]

i don't think WQs but like the dream grove hourly activity or the researchers under fire?

[dense plover]

portal icon updated again

[upper pasture]

that's what it looks like on live for the event portals

[dense plover]

oh - neat

i mustve missed that

[upper pasture]

they kinda do be blending in tbh

[dense plover]

city submap has a highlight and the echoes event has an icon

awakening the machine is still here

looks like they just cut out 90% of the achievements

which tbh - is fine

they fully fixed the lag

i can fly through the city and it doesnt lag anymore

theater has its own music and now has sound effects for the audience

also there is new race music

sojourner quests are showing on the map now

loremaster still only needs one of the sojourner achieves

idk why

is this a new quest?

dagran is here

new description on the pinnacle cache

new tooltip/function on this one too

guarantees a tier 3 trove

i bet there are other versions of that map

they added more variety to WQ mogs

definitely not being cut @uncut vault

[uncut vault]

That's good, hopefully they clean it up a bit then

[dense plover]

seems easier

also you can actully heal him

if it was timed before, it isnt now

killing a medbot heals the speaker

also interrupting the channeling dudes instakills them

overall much easier

massive nerfs to enemy health and dmg too

brewmaster ilvl 562

gonna try to complete it

[tulip sun]

@uncut vault Love seeing the new outfit on Dezco. I'm assuming no others got an update?

(I know it's a long shot but the pandas and so on 😂)

[uncut vault]

Just him

mainly because he's so egregiously out of place haha

[tulip sun]

Yeah he desperately needed it

[dense plover]

it was very easy

i didnt get the mount from the achieve

also transitioning between zones seems to have a musical sting like in shadowlands

these are now in zones other than ringing deeps

it might be whichever zone the echoes are active in

they reduced kej costs (i suspect they reduced drop rates too) but they rep locked them instead (better choice imo)

they moved the peoples to the side

this one is still crazy tho

[pulsar minnow]

oh 8.... like spiders have 8... eyes... good one blizz..

[dense plover]

this is new

[pulsar minnow]

what does the queens pheromones even do?

[dense plover]

wow they made it LESS rewarding

just over 69 when i finished

looks like its 1/3 coffer shards, 2/3 valorstones

[dense plover]

guards wont ever attack again anywhere in the city

[pulsar minnow]

gotcha

[dense plover]

key shards are now season tagged

so the people who got them before the season, wont be able to use them

all my old ones turned grey and i wanted to learn why

[uncut vault]

preparing the template for season shift probably

[dense plover]

map got a dropdown

[uncut vault]

Is there a quest we have to do to unlock these?

[dense plover]

i think you get a quest when you get one from a delve?

idk if they need to be unlocked or not

definitely requires level 80

[uncut vault]

I dont see em on my level 80 is why

I mean the world soul stuff btw, not coffers haha

[dense plover]

this menu is new

[dense plover]

yeah i know - you meant the echoes

right?

yeah, finish a bountiful delve, you should get an echo that gives you a quest

these are tied to rep, so its essentially mini-renown?