beta-ptr-spoilers

[warm topaz]

wait a couple of weeks to answer that question

[hollow skiff]

anyone know how fast concentration is recovering? (i talk about proffessions)

[atomic obsidian]

Any enhance chads here?

[dense plover]

Known bug

[barren vigil]

Is on a paler horse not working? Can't seem to stay mounted in combat (yes I'm using the correct mount and yes I'm outdoors)

Is rider of the apocalypse working at all? Nothing I'm doing is summoning horsemen either. I have the spec active but nothing is happening with it

[heavy linden]

I hate the fact that engineer is the only profession that have bonuses in combat, engineers gadgets should be available to everyone

[scarlet ridge]

thanks, just bricked my character

PSA: Do NOT and I repeat do NOT, do a horrific vision of stormwind and go to the mage tower and enter the Boralus portal.. yes I'm aware this is BFA content but this has broken my character completely

[hazy kettle]

You get pooped out in Negative Boralus, N'Zoth is still alive and actively sieging both Boralus and Zanchuli due to his overwhelming true size - oh, and apparently Azeroth needs yoa' aid, shampion!

(I couldn't be arsed to write a better fanfic on my phone T_T)

[livid walrus]

i think i see the issue why you wont be able to restore chars at the prepatch

azerite mentioned

[hard pagoda]

anyone else Grand Yak crashing your WoW? when u mount it

not always

and when I login there arent those trader npcs

apparently now its crashing all the time when I mount it 😄

[hard pagoda]

https://i.gyazo.com/113a86f3712242f8de19c7b8321e9bfc.mp4

and this feature bugs me out 😄 havent found it from the menu yet

[magic elm]

hi do emplishments work ? mine seems to be buged

[robust zinc]

searxh settings on top: click to move or something like that

[hard pagoda]

that was it thanks

[deep pawn]

It took me a week to get through ff14's newest levelling story. I bet WoW takes me like 5-8 hours.

[thin warren]

Depends how you rush

[deep pawn]

Even without rushing and doing every dungeon as presented to you it isn't anywhere close to the depth sadly

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly I much prefer leveling being 5-8 hours

That said I wish there was a larger more in depth story at max level

[deep pawn]

I just want more and deeper story.

TWW is apparently making it worse by cutting out anything that could slow the msq down at all.

[thin warren]

Including all sidequests?

I mean, time to complete

[pulsar minnow]

I mean the msq is cut down but the trade off is that the side stories actually have important shit going on

What otherwise would’ve been essentially filler in the msq is shifted to the side, and it definitely feels like it’s NOT for the sake of laziness

If I am to guess it’s probably preparing for the future of the world soul saga. They want to streamline the storyline for new players so they get the info they need, and then head straight into midnight, then TLT

[opaque pewter]

It seems to be what it feels like. The story and detours are there for those that want it. Otherwise, the big strokes are there for everyone

Taking weeks to catch up to play with friends is a practice the game dropped a while ago

[deep pawn]

What you see as filler I see as essential world building, but I don't know

I like story but as long as it's optional they'll never focus that hard on it

DF's patches were exceptionally disappointing to me to the point where I don't know why they bothered with msq in the small patches

[pulsar minnow]

Well the story of Moria and fearbreaker and stuff like that isn’t “filler” but it’s not necessary to understand the story

It’s not like it’s not in the game

Also you need to keep in mind that wow players and ff players are very different

Notably, alts!

[deep pawn]

But if people don't do it then it becomes wasted design time and they'll eventually cut it

[pulsar minnow]

People don’t rlly have alts in final fantasy. Wow? People have tons. Nobody wants to have to sit through a 16+ hour story each time they decide they want to throw green fire balls instead of frost bolts

[pulsar minnow]

This is needless doomsaying

You’re making assumptions over something that hasn’t happened

[deep pawn]

You already don't have to redo the story on alts and haven't for years

[upper pasture]

I mean alts aren’t really a thing in FF cause the class system is different one character can play all classes in FF

[opaque pewter]

Conversely, if it's mandatory and people doing it are not engaging with it, it's equally "wasted"
It's a fine balance to strike lol

[deep pawn]

I just think a short msq that has barely any story to cater to the people who only want to do dungeons is just a disservice to game design, especially since you only have to do it once.

[silent urchin]

I really don't feel like there's any less plot in the main story in TWW than there was in dragonflight

[opaque pewter]

I think the campaign is fine as is. The rest that adds to it makes it quite rich overall

[silent urchin]

number of quests is a terrible way to judge a story

[deep pawn]

I don't spoil myself on the questing experience cause you only get to experience it once for the first time and I want to see it in its final state, but beta testers had generally been saying it felt short.

Like someone said Hallowfall lasted an hour or so?

[opaque pewter]

We have other mediums for us that games won't ever be able to convey well, like the short stories. They were pretty interesting too

[upper pasture]

Hallowfall is 100% going to be built on as the story unfolds no?

[silent urchin]

the story is very much there if you want it. Lots of stay a while and listen character moments, optional side quests that build a ton of lore. And the main story is very much just the main story.

If you don't read quests and just want to skip to spamming dungeons and making void mommy memes you can do that

If you want to take it slower and learn more about the characters you can also do that

[subtle oar]

I have alts cause wow brain and rp

[opaque pewter]

The approach of WoW veers more in "choose your path" where you experience things your own way, rather than a specific linear story (i.e. you vs. hero of light)
It's very clear when you had stuff like choosing your covenant and class halls

[deep pawn]

Maybe, but I can pinpoint the DF patch I was most disappointed in. 10.1.7.

The story that patch was insulting.

I don't know if it's because they feel they have to voice everything or what.

[hard pagoda]

I guess Hall of Awakening is bugged

not gonna do it for the third time

[glass flicker]

I don't know what y'all are talking about but here's bae blade knaifu waifu Xal'atath smiling.

https://tenor.com/view/xal'atath-xalatath-the-war-within-world-of-warcraft-xal'atath-smile-gif-18113824324507380601

[tepid fiber]

Knaifu 4 Laifu

[glass flicker]

If she doesn't call my shadow priest "her little pogchamp" I'm unsubbing.

Oh, who am I kidding? I laid my coffin with Blizzard and there I shall be buried.

[upper pasture]

I can’t believe we’re less than 50 days away!

[thin warren]

RIP

[glass flicker]

Yeah. It makes me wanna shake everyone's hands. It makes me wanna drink milk in a skull mug and tease Flynn Fairwind.

It makes me wanna help Malfunction with his Bel'Ameth garden.

[thin warren]

...

You should see someone

[glass flicker]

Whatever do you mean?

[thin warren]

Nothing 😌

[glass flicker]

Just trying to have wholesome interactions with the people of Azeroth.

[thin warren]

The NPC's?

[glass flicker]

Why not?

Just imagine having this in WoW.

[thin warren]

No.

You are taking it far 😄

[glass flicker]

Noh. I disagree.

I think WoW could use more wholesome moments that aren't corny or tear-jerking.

Like Flynn going to get Shaw a present.

[tepid fiber]

Oh the Trading Post has a ton of those

[glass flicker]

I know!! I want Sully to get a new raccoon.

[tepid fiber]

I need Riko and Kiryn to hold hands strolling down the Drag

[glass flicker]

I don't play Horde much so I didn't see that.

Although I did like Vol'dun questing. I don't remember the name of that vulpera who sang to the alpacas, with the troll going "what be dat noise comin' out of ya mouth?" but it genuinely got a chuckle out of me.

It was cute, wholesome, and funny.

[tepid fiber]

Horde side of the Jade Forest questline, a few Shattered Hand Kor'kron elite and a hozen named Riko are the equivalent of the SI:7 agents on the Alliance side. Riko's evolving romance arc with the Forsaken rogue Kiryn is a better love story than Twilight

[glass flicker]

Two ants running away from a colony is a better love story than Twilight, c'mon.

[tepid fiber]

It's still worth playing at least once

[plain violet]

💯

We have a world to defend. We need to show this world being loved by the characters.

People caring about each others in simple moment.

That's also what made Gandalf so liked.

https://tenor.com/view/froto-frodo-hobbit-hug-gandalf-gif-21191699

[glass flicker]

My favorite moment to this day is with Chen and Li Li Stormstout in the Valley of the Four Winds. Li Li calling Chen and Mudmug fatsos and Chen going "alright, I'll put my belly into it" is oddly wholesome.

It shows that Chen and Li Li are so comfortable with each other that they can just joke like that and be chill.

Honestly, just Pandaria in general. Replaying through it in Remix reminded me how much I loved the strong character writing in it.

[plain violet]

Exactly! We need more of that.

[uncut vault]

Yeah I just got there too, definitely bugged so don't bother trying to push through it

[dense plover]

damn, breaking every other patch - jeez

since when are you a wowhead writer porter?

[uncut vault]

Since about a month ago haha

[deep pawn]

news posts or a guide?

[little hound]

Is this the new Quest UI? Or is it an addon ?

[glass flicker]

Likely an addon. Although I love that it shows the exp percentage too.

[little hound]

Have we gotten a IRL Cinematic of War Within yet, as we do with all expansions..?

Or is it yet to come.

[glass flicker]

We did, almost a year ago.

https://youtu.be/o03STclgxSc?si=GYxbxxiYpiFsBaVY

[little hound]

Oooh right.

I forgot.

[glass flicker]

And, it's not "IRL cinematic"
They simply have actors in motion capture suits do these motions and facial expressions, and simply translate them to CGI.

I think Blizzard does it best too, honestly. Their style is very realistic for cinematics.

So it's more accurate to call it "CGI trailer"

🤓

[tepid fiber]

Yeah, live-action WoW trailers aren't a thing

[glass flicker]

Yet~

[tepid fiber]

Motion capture, or mocap

[glass flicker]

This.

[tepid fiber]

"IRL cinematics"

Lordy

[glass flicker]

Hey, we may be able to engineer life-like animatronics in twenty-ish years, and have those do the cinematics.

Don't bring up Skynet.

[tepid fiber]

I prefer to talk about things that happen

[glass flicker]

Things that happen? Well, Anduin got a face remodel for his The War Within model.

A rounder chin.

I actually kinda like his new look, but I wish he kept the long hair. He'd have looked amazing with long, unbound, and messy hair.

Especially since we know he ends up with long hair again in the future.

Look at this man. Hard to believe Anduin will turn out like this, but maybe he's artificially aged somehow like Garona was.

[opal storm]

IRL Cinematics... still hoping for new Warcraft Movie one day

[glass flicker]

Don't get me started, I already had a casting wishlist for a Frozen Throne movie.

Henry Cavill as Arthas, Margot Robbie as Jaina, I'm still workshopping who I want as Uther.

[opal storm]

But at the same time im worried they would change a lot for political messages... (I have nothing against LGBT and black ppl, dont cancel me. I just hate when already existing characters get changed for representation purpose)

[glass flicker]

Oh, I'm fine with representation as long as it doesn't boil down a character to just that. Like Flynn Fairwind. He's amazing for bisexual representation because it's not all that his character is.

Goes from having a crush on Taelia to dating Mathias Shaw and it's cute.

Or like, how Wrathion gets a heartache thinking about Anduin at Lor'Themar and Thalyssra's wedding.

[opal storm]

No i meant to the point of making Arthas or Jaina black or Uther secretly having a crush on Terenas

[glass flicker]

It'd be interesting to see them portrayed by a person of color, but I wouldn't think it's offensive, just not tasteful representation.

Like, maybe if Kel'Thuzard was black, it wouldn't be as much of a problem for hysterics and naysayers because he's a skeleton most of the time.

[opal storm]

Some characters are just too iconic to change and someone like Arthas being not a long haired blondie would upset many fans)

[glass flicker]

Like, as a Lich, Kel'Thuzard could honestly be anything. He could be Jamaican and I doubt many people would bat an eye if his accent isn't obvious.

And now I'm imagining a Troll Lich. Help me.

Mon.

[opal storm]

Dere always must be da Lich King, mon

[glass flicker]

Dis voodoo be hittin' mon.

[zealous sedge]

On the topic of cinematics, i think we are bound to get another one? We saw clips of a cinematic for the launch day announce last month. I refuse to believe that is the whole thing.

[glass flicker]

What sword was aimed at someone, again?

[zealous sedge]

well in theory i guess sargeras wanted to destroy the world soul so more evil things did not weild its power (i.e. Xal)

but whose to say

[glass flicker]

Oh, you're talking about Gorribal!

[zealous sedge]

legit the first time i heard that name

but i just looked it up. pretty interesting

[glass flicker]

Have you heard about Taeshalach?

[zealous sedge]

no, until just now. Gorribal and Teashalach are twins it seems

fragments of a larger sword

[glass flicker]

Mhm. Gorshalach is the most powerful weapon in the universe.

Just forgotten trivia.

[zealous sedge]

oh yes

[glass flicker]

Lore that's no longer relevant.

[zealous sedge]

would be cool to see it revived tho

[glass flicker]

Pah. Imagine Illidan, possessed by Sargeras, wielding Gorshalach. The final boss of WoW.

[zealous sedge]

haha maybe. I cant imagine the sword will be stuck in the ground forever. Would it be destroyed, or will something or someone try to reunite with Gorribal to recreate Gorshalach. From what ive read, only a "non-evil being" would be reunite both. Although thats probably not canon and could change

[glass flicker]

The entire lore surrounding it is not considered canon anymore.

I'm just spitballing.

[subtle oar]

Tashalach and Gorribal would needed to be wielded by a non evil soul to be reformed. The entire reason Gorshalach was shattered was because Sargeras turned evil so his sword rejected him

[zealous sedge]

ah, got it. well with the sword being relevant again i hope they shed some more light on it throughout the saga

[glass flicker]

As much as the Primus cared for us wielding the fragments of Frostmourne as a DK.

[zealous sedge]

i never really played SL, so all that lore is just not canon in mind hahaha. i just ignore/ delete what ive heard and read

[glass flicker]

They gave Xal'atath importance in an expansion she wasn't even a major player in, but the armaments of the Lich King go forgotten in the expansion caused by his hat being broken, it's hilarious.

No, seriously. What was the point of not having the Primus acknowledge either the Frost DK artifact or Shadowmourne, or Alexandros acknowledging paladins wielding the Ashbringer?

https://tenor.com/view/such-wasted-potential-sub-zero-mortal-kombat11-mortal-kombat-gif-25119153

I will keep crying about this until they add those dialogues. And Alexandros' Fatebringer weapon appearance.

But only for paladins.

If they ever want to add class weapon questlines, the Shadowlands are a goldmine.

[thin warren]

Did you memorise the wowwiki or something 🥲

[glass flicker]

Didn't you? :o

[thin warren]

No 😮

[tepid fiber]

Wowwiki was trash before Fandom and now not even Fandom is good 💅

Also daily reminder to add the warcraft.wiki.gg redirect extension to your browser

[glass flicker]

I do RP, I kinda check all sources in case I need to know something for a character.

[thin warren]

It seems a bit hardcore

[glass flicker]

Why do you think that?

[thin warren]

Knowing like everything about Warcraft is not something you do overnight

[tepid fiber]

Knowing the correct lore and canon for roleplay or even plain immersion isn't hardcore, it's the right thing to do

[tepid fiber]

Of course not, you do it over time while also learning how to look up what you need to know for when you do

[glass flicker]

Well yeah, I've been playing WoW for a decade now.

[thin warren]

Sounds a bit nolife to me to be honest

[tepid fiber]

... reading?

[opal storm]

I love WoW lore

[thin warren]

I play wow for 20 years and I don't know anything

[glass flicker]

You think reading is no-life?

[tepid fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/frankly-thats-a-skill-issue-hazzikostas-ion-ion-hazzikostas-skill-issue-gif-21595688

Honestly that's a self burn on you if anything Kwintus

[opal storm]

Im just a casual solo player now since BFA but i still love the setting

[thin warren]

If your life is all and only about Warcraft, fine, lol

[tepid fiber]

It doesn't have to be

[thin warren]

Yeah, the lore is cool, that's true

[glass flicker]

How do you even say this without cringing at yourself?

[tepid fiber]

Like what do you do, go about life only knowing about five things?

[thin warren]

Other stuff then WoW

[glass flicker]

It's not like I only play WoW, either. I have almost 800 hours in Elden Ring and I've only played since February.

[tepid fiber]

You're supposed to always be learning. People content with only what they know are pathetic

[opal storm]

I like how I turned ptr/beta chat into "general chat"

[tepid fiber]

You can know other stuff and WoW

[glass flicker]

And I have that game memorized like the back of my hand too.

[tepid fiber]

Well, maybe not you

But most people

[thin warren]

How Moti talks it's like they read every book and wiki 5 times

[upper pasture]

i mean, knowing alot about WoW doesn't mean you can't know stuff about other things. they aren't exclusive.

[tepid fiber]

Like what low IQ mindset is this that you can't know things and another thing?

[opal storm]

U dont need books tbh

[glass flicker]

Quite simple, actually. You also check stuff on the spot if you don't know.

[opal storm]

Every relevant lore was uploaded on YT by lore content creators

[glass flicker]

Like, in what universe would a single person know everything?

C'mon.

[thin warren]

That was just in a manner of saying

[upper pasture]

we also have this semi wonderful thing called "the internet"

[tepid fiber]

It's a dumb expression

[glass flicker]

And this wonderful thing called "a phone" with terabytes of information at your fingertips.

Anytime, anywhere.

[upper pasture]

well, yeah phones tend to be connected to the internet.

[thin warren]

You still have to memorise it

[glass flicker]

You can look something up anytime if you can't memorize it.

[tepid fiber]

No you don't

[glass flicker]

It's not that complicated.

[opal storm]

I'll leave u guys to have your discussion of expressions

[tepid fiber]

You can just remember or learn

I feel like I need to keep this

[upper pasture]

you can google things and get responses in fractions of seconds. that's the glory of the internet lol

[thin warren]

What Moti told here seems like it was by head, not looked up

[glass flicker]

Yeah?

[tepid fiber]

Pebkac

[glass flicker]

But I had to look it up once.

[upper pasture]

you seem to be missing the point

[glass flicker]

I simply memorized it.

So your point is still invalid, I'm sorry.

[thin warren]

Seems freaky

Sorry

[glass flicker]

Why do you think that?

[thin warren]

I already said

[upper pasture]

gonna chalk it up to a culture thing i guess?

[thin warren]

Like your life revolves only around wow

[glass flicker]

That wasn't an explanation.

[tepid fiber]

Thinking that competence or knowledge is creepy is so backwards and pants-on-head to me, I don't get it

[livid walrus]

they fix the rocket ! it is constantly fire

[upper pasture]

but you are the one making that assumption

[tepid fiber]

Why do you think someone needs to be obsessed with something to know about it?

[glass flicker]

I must inform you, male acquaintance I colloquially address as my brother, that the content you have virtually distributed is of such overwhelming awkwardness, it evokes physical repulsion.

Bro you said cringe.

[livid walrus]

that the AH mount and the entrollment wyrm mount

[tepid fiber]

Like dude do you even know where you are

[upper pasture]

this is a WoW discord, of course they would....know things about WoW.

[thin warren]

Lol, silly Moti

[tepid fiber]

You're in a server for a website that exists to provide knowledge about WoW

[glass flicker]

This guy.

[tepid fiber]

Presumably to learn things about WoW

[thin warren]

But not like, everything, get a life

[tepid fiber]

???

[thin warren]

Fine, I'm out, djeezes

[upper pasture]

you are the one assuming Moti only knows wow things...?

[glass flicker]

And I don't claim to know everything, either. I just look up things to inform myself. It doesn't mean I'm not knowledgeable in other stuff too.

How can someone be so narrow-minded?

[tepid fiber]

Well, the block list expands. Can only handle so much willful ignorance

Like God damn

[glass flicker]

He needs to fondle a plant. Stroke vegetation. Touch grass. There are thousands of people better at WoW lore than I am. Maybe there are others better at everything than I am. Let's just celebrate their efforts instead of saying they have no life, eh?

[tepid fiber]

Ugh I just want more pics of delve vehicles

[upper pasture]

i wish i could say i've expanded mine but it's not true. they are always so blunt and stand offish or maybe rude. idk could just be how it is over there in Belgium not sure

[glass flicker]

I'm calling out the WoW Twitter right now. I'm ABSOLUTELY 100% POSITIVE they'll make an "elves in the delves" joke.

[tepid fiber]

Someone post another side by side of Anduin's chin job or something else relevant

[glass flicker]

The era of the elf on the shelf has passed.

[tepid fiber]

I still feel like there was something lost in this translation

[glass flicker]

Maybe it's the lack of golden body glyphs?

[tepid fiber]

Perhaps, and the more segmented body parts

Like, I get it

[glass flicker]

Also, the hair is just hair.

[tepid fiber]

But I still feel like it needs less Titan, more Forged, if you catch my drift

[glass flicker]

Gimmie stone beards.

[tepid fiber]

That too

[glass flicker]

IN FACT, gimmie a lava beard like Odyn's.

[tropic trail]

Damn this looks so cool.

[uncut vault]

I like the wire beards too, but it's odd they didn't do rock beards at all, like the Wrath ones had

the new ones all feel more like metal than stone, which works fine too but it's a funny departure from the original concept

[deep pawn]

They wanted a lore reason for haircuts I imagine

Easier to replace wire than grow stone.

[uncut vault]

Well, there's a lore reason for that anyways with earthen, they can canonically swap bodies entirely

their 'barber shop' also allows for the swapping of their gems into other vessels, including ones of other genders

[deep pawn]

Who knows then

Guess the artist assigned preferred wires

If prepatch is the 23, you think we get season warning on Monday or Tuesday

[tropic trail]

They could add ice beard or fire one. But overall I like their appearance

[elder seal]

Oh no. Follower dungs currently disabled? :o

And here i was going to continue my adventure while waiting for XIV maint, rip

https://wowhead.com/quest=79160
seems like this aint still fixed

[glass flicker]

Welp. I reached level 70 on my dwarf warrior and got the Heavenly Onyx Cloud Serpent. What now?

[elder seal]

Wrong channel?

The quests not scaling is seriously going to cause some issues later on. Seems im pretty much forced to go do quests on Azj-Kajet when im stuck with my campaign

Oh they finally removed level requirement from telescope

nvm

i abandoned the quest and now it shows this intead

[rain cave]

Dracthyr kinda throw that one out though

If I was to guess, it's because a wire beard communicates something hairlike easier than rock

But then then why the fixation on that

It's sad that male dwarves can't have 0 beard

And a rock option could be cool

Kinda funky I'm realising that this xpac is very alliancey, the 3 main races on our side are all spinoffs of ally races

And they're actively setting up silvermoon and high elves as more neutral

Most of the lead npcs who seem to have an active story are alliance oriented

[livid walrus]

this is high number of kej

[dense plover]

yeah i think its too much imo

[silent urchin]

its probably placeholder or gets a discount once you do something

[hard pagoda]

how I should continue beta if I cant finish Into the Machine?

since its bugged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7t_kO7A0s8

it looks like it worked 3 weeks ago 😄

[pulsar minnow]

Bug report it

All you can do

[livid walrus]

Fun fact: Mounting with the 'use' of this staff is also skyriding

[dense plover]

that makes sense

[dense plover]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=206162/lingering-echo-of-tarecgosa makes sense considering they added a way to actually have access to it as a mount anyway

[livid walrus]

Is it 1:1 the same summ spell?

Same id?

[dense plover]

pretty sure

it was added with the blue dragon quest in 10.1 so you didnt have to keep the item on you

[feral belfry]

Thrall tank when?

[zealous sedge]

Oh I love that mount. Just found another to add to the list!

[upper pasture]

if you are playing a class that can get the legendary staff from firelands

[zealous sedge]

1st time seeing "Hooded Supplier" in remix in the Bazaar. Did some digging, they say it could be Xal? kinda cool

[leaden sentinel]

Hello guys,

I'm playing beta and I don't know how to get to Azj-Kahet!

is there a way from Orgrimmar?

[uncut vault]

If you're on the level 80 server, there's no way to get to Khaz Algar

if you're on the other three, you can talk to the large tauren standing in the Valley of Strength, and he'll teleport you to the Isle of Dorn

[warm topaz]

anyone remember why did they change heirlooms? like before they give a 10% exp bonus, now they don't

why was that change?

[pulsar minnow]

Bc of the leveling changes in shadowlands

Leveling is much faster than it ever was before

[warm topaz]

those were added in prepatch right?

i remember leveling my hunter back then when they applied those changes

[deep pawn]

heirlooms have been in the game since Wrath

They changed the bonuses they gave with the level squish

[tropic trail]

I think now it’s more exp with rested bonus with the whole set. 🤔

[warm topaz]

yeah

[warm topaz]

i know

i meant those changes he mentioned

[upper pasture]

You consume rested exp half as fast. Effectively doubling it. IIRC

[ember blaze]

anyone else unable to make new characters in the lvl 80 realm? 🤔

[dense plover]

are you trying to make an evoker or already have a lot of characters?

[ember blaze]

i deleted characters and i cant make any class. it just says character creation failed

[dense plover]

sounds like a bug

¯_(ツ)_/¯

sorry

[ember blaze]

oh well

[dense plover]

just played through the dread pit

they fixed my biggest problem

the daze on the skardyn is now permanent

boss felt semi-challenging

(needs a bit more dmg)

loot felt underwhelming, but it IS tier 3

not sure I like loot being key only, but keys arent hard to come by

this explains why the delve bountiful gear is adventurer on beta

[silent urchin]

yeah, it's part of why I want them to turn season 1 on in level up realms

how gear acquisition feels is a HUGE part of what they should test

otherwise it's BFA all over again

so its gonna work similar to the s4 caches I guess?

Or actually you can do the same thing four times if you really want?

[dense plover]

i dont think you can do the same thing 4 times

i think you just get to choose 4

as an example, i know the azjkahet pact is weekly

[silent urchin]

So pretty close to those S4 caches except there's more options and you don't have to do them all

[dense plover]

but it could be that the repeatable ones are repeatable

hard to say

[silent urchin]

also.. todays beta build?

[dense plover]

either way 4/6 instead of having to do a specific activity or one of two is nice

[dense plover]

we got a bunch of vendor builds at the end of last week

[silent urchin]

are they throwing one up on a monday?

[dense plover]

its probably last week's build that didnt hit live

[silent urchin]

servers are up so they're not currently patching. Either they mean tomorrow, or various hotfixes

[dense plover]

Probably tomorrow

It’s already been edited to “this week’s”

[deep pawn]

PTR is release candidate

I'm almost certain now it's the 23rd

Season ending warning should be tomorrow

[dense plover]

huh - they updated the player map model

[silent urchin]

is it gonna be held the correct way around now

[zealous sedge]

So I haven’t played too much beta. Based off today’s post about weekly caches, it says you need to do 4 to get enough key fragments for a Coffer Key. So are bountiful delves intended to only be 1 per week? Or do key fragments drop from other sources allowing you to get more keys?

[dense plover]

thats not what it says

it says you get fragments from up to 4 - if you want ALL of the fragments you have to do 4

im fairly certain this means each one gives 100

because thats how it currently works

would make no sense to have them give 25

especially since you can get them from other world activities

people are misunderstanding

[zealous sedge]

oh okay, I guess you're right, I misunderstood. I was just trying to get a scope of how many bountiful delves you can do each week.

[proud moat]

Who the hell is that WoWhead article writer who is "PLEASED" with 1-2 more enhancement shaman changes and we are fine to go?

[vernal juniper]

where is the place where you select the zone where you wanna quest with an alt?

[deep pawn]

Because it's true. Enh doesn't need massive changes. It's fun to play it has a tiny bit of talent bloat that's making builds hard to do.

I feel like the writer got the biggest points pretty well.

[proud moat]

Nice to see ppl commenting enhancement after watching a few "gameplay" videos or alting one for like a month 🙂

[deep pawn]

Wordup has literally put the most work into enhancement for years now.

Enhancement didn't need an elemental level rework, likely would have done more harm than good, but they needed just something to free up talent space a bit with hero trees.

[modest ice]

enhancement doesnt need a reword at all, just buffs to stuff to make it plausable to take one build or the other

which it has

[proud moat]

You both talking from dps perspective or gameplay? DPS perspective i couldnt care less because everything gets fixed with minor % adjustments. I am talking of serious fundamental gameplay issues which leads to a unfluid rotation

[modest ice]

both

[proud moat]

ok lets see. How do you feel rotationaly when you are about to empty your MW stacks and hot hand procs?

[modest ice]

iu play storm

[proud moat]

ok so you dont care about the rest... Lets see this one: do you like that your burst come unintentionally from Ascendance/stormstrike procs?

[modest ice]

the only real disliek i have with ascendance is the look of it; but i do think it coulkd do with maybe a duration/chance increase

or a reduce in CD to asendance itself

the one thing i want given to enh is chain harvest

then iwil be properly satisfied

[proud moat]

If Ascendance was 1min cd with 30sec uptime would it be more up to date compared with pally's wings?

[modest ice]

i think thatd be nice

like frosts new burst phases

i tihkn if we dropped the bursts potency but made it more frqeuent

itd be goat

[proud moat]

What does chain harvest offer to enhancement and shaman in general thematically wise? Isn't just a suitable key to make AOE dmg and heal at the same time?

I mean they could make a bounchy Elemental Blast which turns to Chain Heal mid way and it would do the same thing..

[modest ice]

just prefer'ed it personally over primord wave

big chunk chain bolt

[proud moat]

yes primordial wave is indeed out of theme too

[modest ice]

primord wave is nice on elementalist and resto

atleast with current builds

but im not a fan of the elemental enh build

[proud moat]

since you want a Ascendance lower cd with a increased duration wouldnt it be more suitable if Doom winds had no GCD too since after using ascendance you have to burst with something instead of stacking buff durations?

[modest ice]

think thatd be a but busted

but redfuced maybe

[proud moat]

add wolves in the count

3 secs gcd just to start dpsing

3 sec 0 dps

ok Ascendance explodes so it has some

:p

This synergy is called button bloat that everyone QQ about and it is one of the manys in this spec. Take this synergy and move it in a PVP situation and there you are your strategy is more obvious than ever with a BIG cd too!

[deep pawn]

I'd settle for an ascendence choice like ele got.

Haste and duration or a lower CD.

[cosmic beacon]

Wish they made ascendance more interesting

Mostly for ele

[deep pawn]

it's not bad with the haste

you machine gun lava bursts haha

also, rip, no news post at 10am PDT

[silent urchin]

yeah was kinda expecting something

maybe once patch hits

should be due stuff like the 2.5d trailers

Oh

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24104750/have-a-hoot-with-owlsome-friends-when-you-purchase-a-6-month-subscription

blizz tracker says it was first seen 20min ago but it def wasn't up til now

[dense plover]

IT LOOKS SO GOOD

[sullen dawn]

Yeh it does

I want a brown one

[pulsar minnow]

Crazy theory

But hear me out

Dracthyr Druid flight form

Yeah they can already fly but still

[dense plover]

why would it be an owl

theyre dragons

it would be a dragon

but also i doubt we see dracthyr druids soon

we still dont have gnome druids

[zealous sedge]

Oh man I might to need to purchase a 6 mo subscription now. I still want the fire owl mount but I don’t have the skill or time for that 😭

[dense plover]

im on the 12 month so i just need to wait until I get it

[silent urchin]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/dragonflight-season-4-ending-soon/522287/1

[dense plover]

yeah its the 23rd

[candid ruin]

next month is expansion launch and they can't confirm prepatch date nor season end, and the community manager forget they already announced when season 1 starts

[deep pawn]

They do this warning 2 weeks out

[dense plover]

this is normal

they want the announcement to be big but also need people to know there are PROBABLY 2 weeks left

[upper pasture]

is it usually just PvP rewards tho? i thought the end of the season is both PvP and PvE rewards, that article states PvE stuff will be obtainable for a time after the close of S4

[silent urchin]

some pve stuff stayed at least a bit longer for DF launch

[pulsar minnow]

Because it’s a Druid form

They’re already dragons

They already have a dragon flight form. It’s called Soar.

So, for a Druid form, the owl makes more sense. Especially since this is literally a draconic owl

And we know for a fact Dracthyr are getting access to more classes in future patches, and Druid would be an easy logical choice as they already have ties to the emerald dream being the amalgamation of all 5 flights

[dense plover]

no way dracthyr druid happens before all of the base races

[pulsar minnow]

Eh? I mean ion kinda already said not every base race will get Druids. His words not mine

And again, they’re expanding Dracthyr classes in TWW. Why would they not just add all the classes for them at once

And again, they’re Dracthyr. They have green dragon dna. I feel like they’d be the first logical choice as our next group of Druids

[magic elm]

hi any idea what is wrong with beta sims ? do they not work ? i saw preheat streaming arcane mage sims but when i tryed i got this bs https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vQ5FyAe4A9Wk81hWwBhCmG even tho you can do way more dmg if you use dots like wtf

[dense plover]

because the game isnt balanced?

idk why people are Siming stuff when balance isnt even close to done

asking about balance before the end of august is a waste of time

[silent urchin]

just because arcane has a working sim doesn't mean any of the other classes do

they all have to be done individually, and its a lot of work

I imagine most won't even start til the changes are more or less finalised

[tropic trail]

Man, I want this 👀

[dense plover]

good news - its in the store and part of the 6-12 month sub bonus

[tropic trail]

Amazing I hope it won’t disappear till next expansion

[upper pasture]

Probably isn’t going anywhere for 6 months lol

[silent urchin]

yeah, and it'll remain in the store after, most likely

realms are still online, maybe no patch today

[uncut vault]

This is a dragon-owl tbf, making draconic versions of cats/bears/birds in the same way animals like the swogs and ducks and bakar have dragon adaptations due to the waters from the Halls of Infusion would be a neat twist

[pulsar minnow]

could def see this as their cat form too

[dense plover]

thats not even draconic

its just a spined tiger

i want something on the level of zandalari forms at least

god - why do you want dracthyr druid so bad that you would let them compromise on quality

[pulsar minnow]

Close to everything on the dragon isles is draconic in some manner as porter said

Or primal

By ingesting the waters of the halls of infusion- they look this way

[dense plover]

firstly - a mount this late in the expac cycle is almost certainly going to show up somewhere NEXT expac

this is probably a model from the root zone

[pulsar minnow]

Bro

[dense plover]

its not a dragon isles owl

[pulsar minnow]

I’m aware and that’s my point

It’s a mix of a somnowl and a dragon

Like look at it

It’s draconic

[dense plover]

i wonder if we can use it to make some zone predictions tho

we actually dont have a snowy zone - which makes this mount very interesting

i wouldnt mind us getting one - i just have no clue how it would fit in

underground icy zone sounds like a cool concept tho

[pulsar minnow]

Wonder how draconic owls would fit in…

Look I’m just saying. That’s a draconic somnowl and chances are it’s being used for future content. We already know for a fact Dracthyr are getting more classes, Druids would be a given, and this mount looks very similar to what someone would expect of a dragon Druid form

Only other reasons I can see for its existence is:

1. old scrapped concept art of dragon isles wildlife.
2. Just looks cool why not

[dense plover]

scrapped concept art isnt impossible

theres a good amount of snow

or again - underground ice zone

build coming soon

realms are down

[plain violet]

Great!

I would love archon visuals.

Im selfish I know..

[dense plover]

and archon is...?

[plain violet]

Priest heroic talents, currently without any specific visual. 😁

[dense plover]

ah

[plain violet]

The description is about the priest becoming a ultimate version of themselves and transcendance, the icon are two angels (one of shadow, one of light).. but gameplay wise, it's just a buff to halo, but no unique visual.

[dense plover]

the visuals for master of harmony monk is just an obtrusive particle cloud and a series of lines for the attacks that have line range now ¯_(ツ)_/¯

i would love to have no visuals tbh

[plain violet]

Archon icon:

Which is cool, I have to admit. 😁

[plain violet]

Oh, I remember that.. 😁

But yes it's pretty inequal. Some have very good unique visual to compliment, others have not so good, others have.. none.

[dense plover]

hopefully theyll improve them over time since they plan to have them stick around

i dont care if the visuals are finalized for expac launch as long as they dont leave them unfinished

[plain violet]

I hope so...!

and I absolutely agree with "please don't leave them"

There is big potential.

[zealous sedge]

I’m curious what their philosophy around iterating on hero talents is for future xpacs without creating massive button bloat or just a bunch of passives. Also without it being borrowed power. Maybe they can tie power/ talent progression directly into an itemization overhaul. Not sure how on earth they would do that but just a thought.

[dense plover]

i dont think we will get more points every expac tbh - tho i could see them adding 10 points each expac that just function as minor buffs

hard to know

realms are up but offline, build soon

[zealous sedge]

Yep, first we have to see if hero talents are viable as an evergreen system 😂 which I hope they are but you never know

[sullen dawn]

Can add more hero talent specs, keeping current ones same size

Another expansion could introduce 'ultimate abilities'

Those two things together could cover rest of WSS, maybe slightly beyond

[dense plover]

no chance - that makes balance even harder

[sullen dawn]

Alternative is adding more rows on the normal talent trees

I wouldn't say no chance of more hero talent specs

Id say we'll get at least one more per class at some point

Whether thats in TWW or later I don't know

[dense plover]

i mean, afaik, theyve actually said they dont plan to add more

[sullen dawn]

Giving each spec an 'ultimate' can cover one expansion too

[sullen dawn]

I don't think they said either way. Apologies if I'm wrong

[dense plover]

not really - one point doesnt accomplish the thing

the point of adding hero talents is giving you a reward every level

[sullen dawn]

It does if it's weighted enough

[dense plover]

no it doesnt

because it doesnt reward you every level

thats why hero talents are mostly passive

[sullen dawn]

Dude I'm just making suggestions. What's your idea?

[dense plover]

probably more hero talent points

[sullen dawn]

There's gonna be like 10 more expansions of wow

[dense plover]

theres room in the middle for 2-3 more expacs

[pulsar minnow]

An empowered ability for each spec serving as an ultimate would be sick imo

[dense plover]

after that theyll either add more rows to the entire interface or totally redo talents again

no way we keep this talent system for the rest of wow expacs ever

[sullen dawn]

I don't think more rows in hero specs is enough to hold over 3 expansions

[dense plover]

why not?

10 points each expac?

all points being earned means easier to balance

[sullen dawn]

Not exciting enough unless they also add some more hero specs

[dense plover]

lol theyre not going for exciting

theyre just trying to give that dopamine hit on level

hero talents already arent very exciting

[sullen dawn]

It's a combination of things peach

[pulsar minnow]

I feel like they would otherwise just don’t make the feature. I got faith the devs actually care this time around

[dense plover]

im not saying they dont care

im saying the point of hero talents is to provide SOME choice while leveling without spiraling into balancing hell

[sullen dawn]

Yes they want a feeling of progression, but they need to be marketable too, and enough for players to look forward to the 'cool new thing'

[dense plover]

every cool new thing doesnt have to be tied to talents tho

[sullen dawn]

A few new passives helps the levelling feeling of progression but it's very hype for players

[dense plover]

they can have other marketable stuff

i do think they need to start thinking about fully separate trees tho

[sullen dawn]

I know I'm specially talking about within the realm of combat extensions

[dense plover]

something similar to artifact weapons or something

[zealous sedge]

Talents have always been a dilemma ever since WoW began. Players don’t like button bloat, they don’t like borrowed power, and they want meaningful power progression. Hero talents are a good step in the right direction. How they iterate on it is the question. I think at some point tho, you can only have so many talent points before it becomes too much. There will always be a squish at some point and talents will have to be redone.

[dense plover]

where they can balance it independently of talents

[pulsar minnow]

I feel like artifact weapons would be a balancing nightmare no?

[sullen dawn]

Obviously they can add class skins which would be exciting/marketable, but it's not power progression/customization

[dense plover]

not saying bring back the weapons

im saying a separate window for a separate set of talents that theoretically could be class independent

[sullen dawn]

What do you mean by this

[dense plover]

imagine if instead it was like 3 dps trees, 3 tank trees and 3 healer trees and all classes had access to each of the 3 - you pick one of the trees and get points in that

not instead

in addition

[sullen dawn]

That's pretty boring for an rpg

[dense plover]

overlayed on what we have right now

[dense plover]

they cant do too much or it becomes both overwhelming and unmanageable

[sullen dawn]

Ease of balance isn't the only prerogative though, otherwise we would have no talents at all

[dense plover]

more hero specs doesnt solve the problem because what happens to existing specs

if they add more talents AND new specs, what about next expac? they cant just keep doing that

[sullen dawn]

They could alternate potentially

[dense plover]

that doesnt work - so what, some expacs have new trees, some have new talents? what if my new tree sucks, now i dont get anything

[sullen dawn]

That's always kind of been the way. Some specs suffer in certain expansions

[dense plover]

no not like that

[sullen dawn]

Ideally they would release less suck, but that's probably idealistic

[dense plover]

thats no

thats way worse than what you literally criticised as boring

[sullen dawn]

I think you're speaking too authoritativy here peach

When were just spit balling. You don't really understand their intention anymore than I do

[dense plover]

i dont - "hey, this expac we are adding more options, but since you're already at max level, you get fucking nothing, so hype"

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly I def see blizz adding more and more, and then after the world soul saga doing a pruning

Similar to legion

[dense plover]

they could definitely make parts of hero talents baseline after the saga

[sullen dawn]

You're jumping to worse case scenarios and being hyberbolic

[dense plover]

i expect a level squish post-saga

[zealous sedge]

I think in this is the only way. Talents have their own lifecycle

[sullen dawn]

That makes sense

[pulsar minnow]

Agreed. Also legion changed up the playstyle of a lot of classes completely

[sullen dawn]

Then some new system post saga

[zealous sedge]

They can only iterate too much or it just becomes a mess

[sullen dawn]

Yeh but if it's somewhat contained to 3 expansions they can add a few more hero specs without worrying too much

Can bake in the stuff that works post saga

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah. And I think the saga format going forward will be better for the game. Dumb reference but take Fortnite. They do their chapter system. After each chapter they cleanse. Add some new stuff, then steadily bring back some old and new

[sullen dawn]

Maybe a reworks to most classes in 14.0

[zealous sedge]

Maybe, but definitely would expect to see hero talents baked in to post squish/ prune

[sullen dawn]

It's the best of both worlds between long and short term design. Doesn't feel like expansion per expansion borrow ed power, but they don't have to worry about constant power/complexity inflation

[zealous sedge]

And then they create some new points in the already existing hero trees

[sullen dawn]

Nice shout tiridan

5-6 years of a class structure/"borrowed power" is ok. You wouldn't feel that bad about a prune/crunch at end as you'd be ready for something new

[zealous sedge]

I know most of the player base doesn’t really enjoy borrowed power systems, but another interesting solution could be Seasonal power affixes that tie into hero talents and the tier sets.

[sullen dawn]

They wouldn't feel very borrowed at that timeframe

It's an issue over 20 months cos the game feels mostly the same except you had some toys taken away

After 5-6 years, enough have changed and they've learnt enough about what works and what doesn't that they can make meaningful evolutionary jumps to new class structures

It wouldn't feel bad losing hero talents after WSS if we were getting brand new class designs effectively

And it means they can go nuts adding hero specs over next 2-3 expansion

[silent urchin]

I think the hero talents have done pretty well at avoiding bloat by modifying a spell rather than adding one

[sullen dawn]

Yep but it mostly delays the issue instead is solving it outright

[silent urchin]

although it does feel like it kinda unbalances a lot of them, voidweaver for shadow throws so much behind void torrent which was already a pretty critical cooldown

[deep pawn]

I am absolutely working off the assumption that we are gonna see a level squish and feature reset after TLT.

[silent urchin]

but it makes damage the rest of the time feel super low

[sullen dawn]

I very much agree now

[silent urchin]

cause you're balanced around those huge numbers every 30s

[sullen dawn]

This is why I think more hero specs is a good thing. Gives more options and makes normal talent selection important

[deep pawn]

Yes it does make whatever TLT's feature a borrowed power, but everything will be so bloated by then that we'll be begging for it.

[sullen dawn]

Instead of kind of forcing you into specific normal talent paths

[sullen dawn]

Agree, we won't mind after 5-6 years I think especially if 14.0 comes with big revamps

[pulsar minnow]

This. Also it’d be the perfect time. After the end of this climactic saga the characters will probably be at peace and have a time skip. Blizz could absolutely argue and go “hey your characters weren’t really in the battlefield for a while and were chilling out, so their skills decayed” like what god of war did in ragnarok

[sullen dawn]

Plus we'll be geriatrics so we won't even notice

[deep pawn]

I don't want extra hero trees cause that makes people who play current ones feel like they get nothing

I don't think we'll see any new hero trees, but another system

[zealous sedge]

When I read this I kind of chuckled when I thought, how old are our characters? If you really think about it, if they did a time skip we would belong in the retirement home in Nagrand

[sullen dawn]

I just think a few fantasies and playstyles are not covered fully by existing sets

[sullen dawn]

And IRL lol

[deep pawn]

It's been 20 years in game so depends on the age of your character to start

[zealous sedge]

True

[sullen dawn]

Depends on race I guess

[pulsar minnow]

Sooo old man

[sullen dawn]

For humans it's true

[pulsar minnow]

Thrall will be balding. Again.

[sullen dawn]

Draenei don't gaf

Undead don't even age

[deep pawn]

Midnight could be us stealing some void powers for ourselves

[zealous sedge]

I mean let’s so you started in Vanilla your character is hella old (I’m started in TBC so I’m not hating on anyone haha). Like how many warcaft years have there been since vanilla up till now?

[deep pawn]

20

[sullen dawn]

Void/light alignment trees

Would be restrictive fantasy wise though

[deep pawn]

The DF time skip realigned it with real time years.

[zealous sedge]

Oh okay I didn’t realize that part that makes sense

[sullen dawn]

I still wonder what the "midnight's features will blow people's socks off" is about

[deep pawn]

Either Naga or housing

[sullen dawn]

The only things that qualify for that imo are housing and class skins

[pulsar minnow]

A good way to track the age of your character if you started in vanilla is look at Anduin, then add that to your character

[dense plover]

15

its year 40

and WoW launched in year 25

[deep pawn]

You sure? I thought it was year 22

[dense plover]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Timeline only source i can find

22 was WC3 lich king - or at least part of it

[pulsar minnow]

I’m guessing player housing. Though honestly I don’t find myself caring much for it (most unpopular opinion award goes to me)

[dense plover]

i dont see that happening soon - so much work

its gotta be better than FFXIV b/c everyone will compare it to that

[sullen dawn]

I think if it's coming they've been working on it for a long time

Like since BFA

ESO does housing the best imo

No neighbourhoods 😦 but the customisation is amazing

[deep pawn]

WoW will not be able to beat FF14 housing

[zealous sedge]

I’m with you there, as cool as it sounds, I’m just not sure how much I’d utilize such a feature.

[dense plover]

i mean - they beat them in a lot of other areas, like amount of voice acting

[sullen dawn]

We know you mean it, you're saying it

[pulsar minnow]

Stuff that gets me excited is new classes and specs. But I know that’s a nightmare for balancing. And dragonriding ofc. I was in love with that the moment I saw it

[dense plover]

(honestly the lack of voice acting in 14 is one of the most frustrating things b/c theres no excuse other than being cheap af)

[sullen dawn]

Sorry, 'i mean' is a pet peve of mine :p

[deep pawn]

Do they? I'll be honest I can't tell the difference because of how short WoW's patch content feels.

[dense plover]

ffxiv typically has like 2-3 hours of voice acting in the entire expac

wow has that in each zone

also as someone who completed dawntrail, i would rather leveling be shorter rather than filled with bloat

[deep pawn]

Then I'll be honest WoW uses it for a lot of irrelevant moments that aren't memorable

[dense plover]

they use it for the main npcs

[zealous sedge]

For me it’s really just the story and meaningful character progression. With some nice collectibles on the side

[dense plover]

im not counting enemy attack and death voice lines

[silent urchin]

Also I guess we are getting a patch, zorbrix gonna have to stay late tonight

[deep pawn]

I think WoW's insistence on everything being voiced is why patch content is like 5 minutes long.

[dense plover]

idk, dragonflight had decent patch cadence

[deep pawn]

Like I'm sorry, Superbloom being voiced does nothing for me.

[dense plover]

im not even counting that in my math tbh

im just talking in regards to main story

at least half of 14's main story in the new expac isnt voiced

its ridiculous - you are stuck reading WALLS of text

[deep pawn]

That's fine given 14's main story is like triple the length of a WoW expansion.

[dense plover]

not when half that length is 'talk to X, go to Y, go talk to Y, go back to X, talk to X"

[deep pawn]

There's absolutely no way it's gonna take me a week to hit 80 and do all the dungeons in WoW.

[dense plover]

THATS NOT A GOOD THING

i really love FF14, but dawntrail is not good gameplay

[subtle oar]

https://youtu.be/r8uzWxRGvMU?si=ra6j9mbe_p8QxZm7 @deep pawn @dense plover

[dense plover]

more time to level =/= better game

[deep pawn]

It is to me if I'm paying $40 for an expansion worth of story questing.

[dense plover]

$40 shouldnt be based on the time it takes to level, especially if most of that time is just a visual novel with no voice acting

[deep pawn]

Maybe I enjoy it cause I'm an internal monologue type so I can imagine the voices easily enough?

[dense plover]

plus, TWW has more dungeons than Dawntrail at launch, and actual new gameplay events to do at max level

[dense plover]

i think its lazy af

they already have the voice actors in to record

[deep pawn]

7 dungeons to WoW's 8, not a drastic difference.

[dense plover]

7 dungeons that are straight lines with 3 bosses vs 8 dungeons that arent

[deep pawn]

A lot of the scenes that aren't voiced are ones where your character is referred to by names and stuff.

[dense plover]

they handle that in the voiced cutscenes already

this isnt a valid excuse

[silent urchin]

v0v you very much know what you're getting with ffxiv and most people still seem to enjoy it

[deep pawn]

Gosh it's so fun to be constantly referred to as champion.

[dense plover]

14 literally does this

they do it the same as wow where they say a word but it shows your name

[deep pawn]

Only when voiced just like WoW. I personally appreciate the scenes where they get to use the name directly even if I have to read it.

[dense plover]

and what about all the cutscenes where that isnt the case and it still isnt voiced?

what excuse do you have for that?

why are you paying $40 for a silent movie this expac?

Endwalker was so much better about this

And going back on topic, WoW can absolutely do better at housing than 14

14's housing code is ancient

wow's at the oldest would be garrison tech

[silent urchin]

there's definitely some cutscenes I would expect to be voiced that aren't, and others that are that seem fairly irrelevant, but overall I don't really feel like it's any different to any other ffxiv expansion

[deep pawn]

Last time blizzard said anything about it is they said their engine literally cannot let players customize placing of objects

[dense plover]

the quest where you ||go back to Tulliyolal and then follow Wuk Lamat as she tells her brother everything you just did is the biggest waste of time i've ever seen in a video game, and dawntrail is filled with quests like this||

potential Dawntrail spoilers ^^^

[dense plover]

its been a long time since theyve said that

and theyve been doing a lot of engine upgrades

[deep pawn]

I don't know, maybe I'm easier to please and I just want more but I've felt WoW's story has been short and shallow for multiple expansions now and it's been hurting my enjoyment of the game.

[dense plover]

I feel like the story in TWW is pretty good - its still WoW, so its gameplay first, story second

FFXIV has those two flipped

[deep pawn]

Like it's my main example but 10.1.7 remains the most pointless and poorly paced story patch they've ever done.

[dense plover]

which was that?

[deep pawn]

Vyranoth flipping sides after one cutscene

[dense plover]

ah

yeah that felt rushed

i feel like theyre doing a better job in TWW

theyve even gone through and done changes to some of the leveling story to help with pacing

isle of dorn feels a LOT better now

[deep pawn]

Zaralek was fine, Emerald Dream's plot felt shallow in general

[silent urchin]

there was some foreshadowing for vyranoth flipping, it wasn't completely out of nowhere, but they definitely could have sold it better

[dense plover]

it needed more time - i think content got cut

we still dont know what the deal was with the ice tower in azure span

that thread never went anywhere

[deep pawn]

It wasn't spelled out but it was powering the lock on the vault.

[silent urchin]

I don't think it was ever intended to

[deep pawn]

That's why Rasz had to disable it

I'm still largely disappointed we'll never see a 4 raid tier expansion ever again.

[dense plover]

i would love to get a mini raid back

i like the mini raids

[warm topaz]

well, never say never

[deep pawn]

I'm a book reader so I guess that might be why I don't need everything voiced, and I find WoW voices a lot of stuff that ultimately feels pointless to voice like people literally use mods to silence world quests

[zealous sedge]

If TLT isn’t a 4 raid xpac I would be certainly disappointed. It’s supposed to be the finale I think it deserves such content

[uncut vault]

The story in said patches was pretty woefully short is more the issue

Dragonflight didn't really add more content, it just stretched it out into smaller more frequent chunks

which was great for gameplay, but really harmed the story

stuff like the Incarnates desperately needed a proper patch of focus, but instead it largely just gets rushed past in a couple of quests in 10.1.5 and 10.1.7, because those patches don't have the budget

Vyranoth speedruns her arc in 2 back-to-back cutscenes and then resolves all her issues with Alexstrasza off screen lol

[dense plover]

i dont disagree about that

but i think theyre trying some different stuff in TWW

[silent urchin]

wasn't there a stay a while and listen for vyranoth/alex?

[dense plover]

the fact that the main story of the nerubians does seem to be mostly complete with the initial patch means that the overarching villain can remain the focus while not being bogged down by incomplete story threads

dragonflight had the incarnates and the primalists and the dream, and the blue dragonflight, and the bronze dragonflight

and the black dragonflight

[uncut vault]

No, the only resolution to their story we get is a gossip text at the start of 10.2 where Vyranoth says they've "come to an understanding"

[dense plover]

it was too many threads to be able to finish

[uncut vault]

and then they act as friends the whole patch

[dense plover]

you want to leave stuff for later that matters but not have so much that you cant use it

[deep pawn]

I thought that scene would be in the book, but no, the book didn't cover the freaking present at all

[dense plover]

like - i dont expect us to deal with the Arathi this expansion

[silent urchin]

Arathi are definitely for later

[tepid fiber]

Don't forget Sad Uncle Tyr who is now just having his post-coma traumatic depression

[silent urchin]

Iridikron being completely absent is.. confusing

[dense plover]

I think the story moving forward has two open threads in TWW beyond Xal being evil - The Root-Bat people, and the goblins

[deep pawn]

I still am struggling to suspend my disbelief that we will go years without dealing with Avaloren.

[uncut vault]

The book made things worse in all honesty, because now there's this huge dangling thread of "why did Alexstrasza not make any pleas to her cousin who trained her from childhood" lol

[dense plover]

its very possible the goblin stuff also ties to Xal if she can convince that fat-chinned one to do her bidding, which I dont think will be hard

Gallywix

Void-Gallywix is very much on the table

[tepid fiber]

Just gotta give him motivation via profit and influence

[dense plover]

would finally tie up that lose end too

[silent urchin]

A goblin side plot feels like it'll take a lot to set up here

[uncut vault]

it's likely, but it'll be a shame if they go that route because it'll really cement how horribly BfA misunderstood his character

[deep pawn]

I'm already calling it, we will have a void bloated Gallywix as a raid boss, it'll reuse the Therazane, Gorefiend model.

[dense plover]

the setup is there

theres a ton of side quests

Undermine is overdue and this expac is perfect for it

[deep pawn]

Hmm, Gallywix is fat, how do we make a raid boss, I KNOW!

[silent urchin]

yeah but it's just regular goblin stuff. There's nothing even pointing towards undermine being an issue beyond "hey remember it exists"

[tepid fiber]

Idk, I don't feel like Gallywix is a loose end that need fully tied. He's perfect as an ancillary returning Saturday morning cartoon villain

[dense plover]

actually i bet he ends up in a robot

[silent urchin]

the goblins don't even seem to meet xalatath at all

[dense plover]

we dont know whats happening in undermine

[deep pawn]

You think WoW will ever have subtle story telling? 😄

[dense plover]

I think him being used by Xal is exactly what he is there for

[tepid fiber]

Honestly I feel like we end up solving and defeating too many problems and some should just stay as static background baddies, like how Azshara used to be

[dense plover]

and I think Gallywix being offed thanks to Gazlowe is exactly how you give him the leader glow-up he needs

[uncut vault]

Yeah that's one of the reasons I'm hoping Gallywix isn't "dealt with" in TWW

he'd be way more interesting as a long-term guy in the background just causing mess in various places

[silent urchin]

We don't, but all I'm saying is they need a few of the goblins in azj'kahet to mention why they left undermine or something

[tepid fiber]

Yeah exactly what I'm saying

[uncut vault]

there's a perfect spot for him to be trade mogul of the Venture Co after he had us displace its leader in BfA

WoW taking every villain and escalating them to the level of cosmically aligned threat is one of the issues it's had for a long while

[tepid fiber]

Just defeating every enemy and removing them from future involvement is such shallow 8th grade storywriting

[uncut vault]

the low-key, character-driven villain stories are basically gone from the game nowadays

[silent urchin]

I think mostly I'm still expecting the story to be a showdown between all the cosmic forces and goblins just seem to not fit in at all

[uncut vault]

basically the only one we have left is Magatha, and they seemingly cut a plot about her being involved with the Incarnates from Dragonflight too lol

[tepid fiber]

Why does it need to be a final showdown

Just another battle in a war is fine

[dense plover]

^

Renaslas isnt until Midnight

or whatever its called

[tepid fiber]

Like you can't "defeat hurricanes" why should we defeat primal forces of creation either

We should just be surviving them better, is all

Like, defeating Sargeras was such a bad move for the overall story imho

Or the Jailer, or Azshara, etc

[dense plover]

i mean - he isnt dead

hes imprisoned for now

[tepid fiber]

Oh I know

[dense plover]

its definitely not a permanent solution

[tepid fiber]

That's why I said defeating

I don't think he shout have really "lost" lost, more just been knocked back and rebuffed again. The ease with which we dispatch certain threats make them not very threatening

[deep pawn]

I'm fine with Iridikron missing

He doesn't care about us at all beyond the threat we pose

All he wants is the Titans here so he can kill them.

[silent urchin]

patch out btw

[dense plover]

670MB - i hope we got some music

[silent urchin]

huh realms already up as well

[uncut vault]

This is something that we say about every mount tbf, and not all mounts end up amounting to anything

the suncat mount is still just a shop mount

might end up using it in Midnight for quel'thalas, but it wasnt an indication of anything in DF

[dense plover]

fair point

login music is in

[silent urchin]

NPC orders are now "Patron" orders

[dense plover]

checking length of the music

[silent urchin]

I dunno if it was in before but the conquest weapon quest is in

[dense plover]

dont think it was

only the weekly arena quest was

[silent urchin]

needs 2500 which I guess is 2 weeks?

[dense plover]

login music was like 2.5 min when it was datamined right?

still about that long 😐

warband screen has sound effects now

chirping birds, rushing water, probably crackling of fire

[silent urchin]

map icons seem to be cleaned up a bunch

also a lot of my isle of dorn map exploration got reset

[dense plover]

thats because map exploration wasnt implemented

all the maps were fully explored while they tested to make sure they werent broken

hoping dornogal map is aligned correctly

[silent urchin]

seems close enough

[dense plover]

yeah its fixed

last week it was totally off

new great vault icon - much smaller

you werent kidding about icon cleanup - delves got a shiny HD icon

[silent urchin]

ok maybe not all the icons are working

[dense plover]

we might be getting season on other realms

looks like some kind of seasonal delve questline maybe?

yup

[silent urchin]

there were definitely some leading to zekvir although they didn't really work when they were available before

[dense plover]

zekvir questline

hes one of those big insectoid guys

[uncut vault]

dreamsurge things got fixed, theyre azerite orbs now

grant resonance crystals

[deep pawn]

oh snap, prevoker tier rework

[dense plover]

maybe gives awakening orb pieces or something?

right now you only get them from delves afaik

finley vendor is back

hopefully you can get this with 'season start'

weekly profession quests are in

dirigible has an icon in the customization menu now

[silent urchin]

I just got 20 from a severed threads cache reward

[dense plover]

oh damn - warband reagent supply is fucking instant

so many bugs fixed

game isnt lagtastic anymore either

still not perfect but pretty good

[pulsar minnow]

Dont mount up on the grand expedition yak

crashes the game

what an odd bug

[dense plover]

oh thats still in

wow

dungeon quest is something other than stonevault - confirms this is a weekly rotating dungeon quest

fucking finally

this is significant

i like this outcome better, where just by doing a bountiful delve you are getting better rewards, but if you fuck it up you cant get the better one

im curious if theyre keeping the 24-48hr bountiful rotation timer

that seems about right if theyre getting consumed upon completion

but im also a bit worried that this encourages you to bail if you are close to running out of revives

[candid ruin]

can't wait to see this error over and over and over on july 23rd prepatch day

[pulsar minnow]

unsure if this is new but this is just a beta thing right?

otherwise- holy shit

[dense plover]

be careful flying near delves

they added a dismount zone but it seems to have no vertical limit

[silent urchin]

definitely not all delves

[dense plover]

tier 4 requirement

[dense plover]

maybe just the ones on isle of dorn? idk

fucking killed me tho

[silent urchin]

Also not entirely uncommon for houses/indoor areas in general

[dense plover]

definitely kriegvals rest

[dense plover]

it has no vertical limit

i fell 100 feet

[silent urchin]

they broke the auto-targeted version of shadow crash for shadowpriest, doesn't apply vamp touch

ground targeted version works

there was a house in stormwind on live for a while that would dismount you if you flew over it

got me every time I went to blackrock

[dense plover]

they finally fucking implemented the giant candles

looks like they removed a lot of trash too

thank god - tier 3 felt like a fucking slog

havent seen any of the little green loot bags tho

ressurection stones are now a nice middle ground

no longer huge but also not puny

[uncut vault]

Oh hey, seems like they made Moira's Fearbreaker questline into a campaign quest?

thank god, it was so weird that such a plot-vital story was relegated to a side plot, meanwhile we spend all that time doing random kobold stuff

[dense plover]

FUCKING FINALLY

ive been reporting it since the start

[silent urchin]

thanks, I hate it

[dense plover]

no locked chest

[dense plover]

oh did they finally add more so you cant fly around the city?

[silent urchin]

don't think so

[dense plover]

got more gold too

70 vs 50

earned from an item on completion

[silent urchin]

it just seems like a really annoying achi to do

[dense plover]

also 21 undercoin and 3 weathered crest from that chest

getting a relic gives a quest so you dont miss it? or might be that bug mentioned in the post idk

nope that one was new

lookie what i noticed!

another

[zealous sedge]

what are undercoins used for?

[dense plover]

gear from the vendor

also cosmetics

[uncut vault]

...did they change something in TWW to no longer allow weapon swaps in combat? odd

[dense plover]

pretty sure thats always the case

you cant change gear during combat

[uncut vault]

gear yes, weapons have always been an exception

[dense plover]

leaving delves is still fucked

were you able to double click your character to load in on the warband screen before?

[silent urchin]

I believe for at least a couple patches now

[dense plover]

oh neat

[candid ruin]

did flight masters always have this light??

[dense plover]

oh dang they just fully removed frenzied

nice

[dense plover]

this might be new - have you learned the flight point?

[candid ruin]

Yeah only shows up on unlearned flight points

neat

[dense plover]

mightve been there for a while on beta, but definitely new as part of TWW

they fixed the artifacting on the loading screen when transitioning from the warband screen - i have no idea how they did this

[dense plover]

servers are restarting soon