#beta-ptr-spoilers

1 messages Ā· Page 91 of 1

deep pawn
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I'm sold on the mudfish

green moth
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my launcher showed TWW alpha this morning, however it says all realms are incompatible and I do not have an option to select which account to login with. Is there something I can do to fix it? It looks like it shows the PTR realms

silent urchin
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DId you not get an account selection after launching it? They seem to have moved it to inside the client, rather than the launcher

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although it's also weird and shows all the non-alpha accounts as well

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it's probably whichever account has the highest number at the end, because that would be the most recently granted one

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they all tend to be of the form "WoW7" or something

green moth
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I just have this and no other option.

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And when I launch it, it goes straight to this:

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silent urchin
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Weird, that's showing the PTR realms, not alpha

green moth
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What's weird is this. It seems to be linked to a US account, but the only one I have is a starter edition.

image.png
green moth
silent urchin
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PTR/beta accounts are all technically on US regions, so that's not necessarily odd by itself

green moth
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Is there another way to check if I actually have beta?

silent urchin
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it would show up in your account settings, but it's all named incorrectly so its hard to be sure

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WoW1 here is the regular PTR, while WoW7 is alpha

image.png
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they do send emails as well but it can take a day or two

green moth
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Then it seems like I don't have beta šŸ˜…
That list is just my main account, PTR account, and US starter edition

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I haven't received an email either (yet)

silent urchin
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Still very strange, they must have flagged something for the client to be available

deep pawn
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It shows up if you've installed alpha on your own even if you don't have access.

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May not be the case here but who knows

green moth
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Tried a fresh install on another pc, same thing

warm topaz
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that art is amazing

pulsar minnow
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Thatā€™s gorgeous

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Thank you blizzard for the new wallpaper

tepid fiber
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The tattered Kirin Tor banner šŸ˜©

lone mantle
deep pawn
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7 weeks

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Also, looks so like cheap 80s sci Fi book cover lol

tulip sun
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Can't help but feel Thrall was downgraded

deep pawn
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It looks amazing

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But I wonder if the homage is intentional

tepid fiber
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I've been scanning it for artifacts showing algorithmic work out of abject paranoia dracthyr_hehe

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One of the few groups I genuinely respect and appreciate without fail is the art team and I'd hate for them to let me down with talentless hack behavior

harsh mason
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void mother

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mother of the void

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sorry

crystal pond
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Dude

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Its knifu

deep pawn
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"The Empress of the Stars"

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oh wow...

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instant access for all epic editions

crystal pond
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Huh

deep pawn
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Either preorders are lower than annual pass was by orders of magnitude, or they have a ton of trust in their beta servers and that first build

crystal pond
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They just need to sell the epic edition

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Thats all

pulsar minnow
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If the war within is telling the community anything, itā€™s that the team has brass balls rn

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And I pray it pays off

crystal pond
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I am waiting for people to break the beta servers in first day

deep pawn
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MrPeach gonna be so mad when plebs break the server on him

dense plover
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There is a fuck ton thatā€™s still super broken

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You still canā€™t fly up the core way to dornogal

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Youā€™re going to have a lot of people raging about their character breaking

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And losing their character

deep pawn
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it's beta, so I'm fine myself with chars bricking

autumn dagger
tepid fiber
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I know but others have been caught while saying the same already. I'm just hoping Blizz's team holds onto their integrity

dense plover
pulsar minnow
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Then tbh thatā€™s their fault for expecting a beta to be an early access

silent urchin
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I assume we're gonna get full resets for beta

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characters and warband status wiped

dense plover
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probably

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right now theyre restarting the servers

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so realms are down

tulip sun
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People gotta understand it's beta

tulip sun
deep pawn
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it was not

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They said beta access

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exactly the same way they advertised for the annual pass

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it not being spread out for server stability is a shock

tulip sun
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People paying, but not receiving equal reward wouldn't have gone well

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I don't know who or why they would've expected something else

sullen dawn
dense plover
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tier 3 and 4 were crazy hard last build

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i havent tested them this build but im hoping theyre actually somewhere between where they were at the start and last build

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i play a brewmaster tank and was struggling to stay alive on tier 3 last build

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tier 3 shouldnt be impossible for a tank whos at the recommended ilvl

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thats too hard

silent urchin
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they have the torghast thing where having a tank makes single target damage go wild

dense plover
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theyre not supposed to be a new mage tower

silent urchin
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and a healer makes the aoe damage go wild

sullen dawn
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They should be hard as possible at higher levels

uncut vault
silent urchin
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they seem better tuned for just solo dps

dense plover
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they 100% did a balance pass this build - they reset the unlocked ranks

uncut vault
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so having it happen with the beta itself is shocking

sullen dawn
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Give me that tough single player content blizz

dense plover
uncut vault
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but I guess cleaner for marketing

dense plover
deep pawn
dense plover
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i also need to check the dread pit

silent urchin
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Are they still scaling your ilvl for testing? They quite often undershoot with those, and tanks often feel particularly bad on lower ilvls

dense plover
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that delve was hot fucking garbage last build

dense plover
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they stopped that a few builds ago

tulip sun
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They're trying to keep a positive relation with their consumers

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And I can only imagine the issues with one person getting it right away and another a month down the line

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People would be in an uproar

deep pawn
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There was an uproar back in MoP beta too, trust

zealous sedge
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MrPeach I feel like you are one of the authorities on this topic here, is TWW really ready for Beta already in your opinion?

dense plover
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the thing is - what we get on alpha and what they have internally are often several builds off

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its very possible they push their actual newest build next week and it fixes a lot of the problems

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right now, the reason i think the game isnt ready is purely bugs & crashes

zealous sedge
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Hmmm makes sense

deep pawn
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this is only the second time you could buy your way into beta, so was no real way to say a pattern for sure, but yeah, I fear for server stability

dense plover
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content is solid and needs balance which is what beta is usually for

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but the fact that we are near beta and you STILL cant fly up the coreway to dornogal, you still crash or DC near some campaign quests, and delves are still very wonky doesnt scream 'ready' to me

zealous sedge
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For sure ok. I havenā€™t preordered TWW yet and debating if I really want to get into beta.

dense plover
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not to mention the fucking currency for delves - undercoin - still isnt even available yet

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so you cant buy any of the cosmetics

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i assume thats tied to the season?

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in which case they may be testing the season during beta

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hence the 10 day delve countdown thingy

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semi-related, realms are still down and im bored

tulip sun
deep pawn
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Beta's gonna last for 2-3 months, they don't really have to open the floodgates all at once if it would compromise testing stability

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so back to either they're confident in the servers, or a lot less people bought epic than signed up for annual pass.

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Granted the game population is like half the size it was in MoP

zealous sedge
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I donā€™t think they would, but they could change up beta and start with a zone by zone periodic release like they did with alpha builds.

deep pawn
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The article already has beta as including all the zones and dungeons

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and raid even

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We'll probably get raid testing schedule next week.

zealous sedge
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Oh I didnā€™t read it sorry

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lol

dense plover
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yeah theyre almost definitely going to run a fake version of season 1 to test balance

zealous sedge
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Well I guess they are very confident. Weā€™ll see what happens.

dense plover
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also they mention all leveling dungeons getting follower mode

deep pawn
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that's already in no?

dense plover
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which is only available for 1 dungeon on alpha

deep pawn
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oh

dense plover
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only the rookery

zealous sedge
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I can already see people freaking out that beta isnā€™t good enough. Just like all the screaming about remix.

dense plover
tulip sun
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Just gotta tune the people not there to actually help out.

zealous sedge
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Yeah. Itā€™s not a fair criticism but people will be pissed because they ā€œpaidā€ for beta access

austere gazelle
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They may already have a build fixing all the core issue ready for next week

zealous sedge
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But their shit doesnā€™t even carry into the live game šŸ˜‚

zealous sedge
austere gazelle
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because all of their ressources are mainly allocated to beta

deep pawn
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I mean at least it's not like some betas I've been in with closed off zones and untextured buildings

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but that was back when beta was all public testing

austere gazelle
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I remember the beta of BC šŸ˜‚ You couldn't put a foot into zangar marsh , naga femal model was bugged and aggroing one of them made you instant crash, and those mana ray had 0 CD on their skill and could fear you + mana burn you to 0 instantly at the same time

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current beta are far above that state in term of quality

dense plover
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i do expect next build to have maps

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since this build has the first one

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though the delve icons probably need to be smaller

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they cover a lot of the map details in some places

dense plover
zealous sedge
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Iā€™m digging the idea of a crocolisl mount

dense plover
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i think weve had a basilisk mount - itll be similar

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i would check the mount journal - IF THE REALMS WERENT STILL DOWN

zealous sedge
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šŸ˜‚

pulsar minnow
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Itā€™s this guy right?

image0.jpg
zealous sedge
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I hope itā€™s the radiant one. The golden should just be fully gold like the scarab

deep pawn
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we've had crocolisks before

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Notably BRUUUUUUUCE!

dense plover
dense plover
deep pawn
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Indeed, but these aren't our first

deep pawn
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The Arathi don't mention the cataclysm any right?

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They arrived in Hallowfall after that I think?

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While Deathwing didn't fly over them directly, the damage he did to the world pillar should have had some effect

dense plover
dense plover
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thats in the elemental plane of earth normally

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pretty sure before the cataclysm at least

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yeah deepholm is in the elemental plane

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it isnt on azeroth at all

pulsar minnow
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well even still, Deathwing caused the planes to intersect

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by damaging the world pillar so severely he caused major damage to the geography of the known world

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"Following Deathwing's Shattering of the World Pillar in Deepholm and his destructive re-emergence into Azeroth, the Elemental Plane collided with the physical realm and resulted in drastic geographical upheaval, causing chaotic elementals to pour out into the world of Azeroth. After witnessing the devastation Deathwing and his followers caused her realm, Therazane treats all outsiders with open hostility."

austere gazelle
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Basically it opened a pseudo portal between deepholme and the maelstrom and the collapse of the world pillar would have probably made the portal unstable and make the maelstrom pour into deepholme which would have resulted in a catastrophic event

dense plover
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but also, yeah i think they arrived after that

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its unclear

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idk how long ago 15 years in game time is anymore

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might have had to deal with the cataclysm

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or the titan facilities were working well enough then that they didnt get it as bad

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im pretty sure he is being cheeky but im not sure

pulsar minnow
dense plover
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then yeah they mightve had to deal with it

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we dont exactly know where khaz algar is to be sure, but its probably betweeen Kalimdor and Pandaria

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so there shouldve been some fallout

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hard to say what beledar did to protect them though

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considering it wasnt turning to void until the sword, it was probably much stronger

tiny stream
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The wow in game timeline:

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deep pawn
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Oh then at best Cata is 14 years ago

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So Avaloren could be heavily damaged by the cataclysm

dense plover
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it is on the other side of the planet and apparently highly magical

deep pawn
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It's their trump card if they want to not have them help

dense plover
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well they would have to go back there first

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i see it as being more likely as part of the next expac

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since there isnt enough blood elf content on its own

tulip sun
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They shouldn't still be reeling from it if that's the case

tulip sun
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I feel like Avaloren could be an entire expansion itself. Like Pandaria/Northrend sized continent

deep pawn
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Empires have faded from less worse earthquakes in reality

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I doubt they'd do all this lore if it was gone

uncut vault
tulip sun
deep pawn
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They said they'd make Quel'thalas bigger for Midnight

tulip sun
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It'll be comparable to a modern expansion size

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They also have forest troll, Void elf and high elf stories to delve into in Midnight alongside blood elf

deep pawn
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and NAga

tulip sun
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I ain't so sure about Naga yet

deep pawn
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Azshara is returning after the Harbinger does her thing

uncut vault
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Naga's pretty much guaranteed, it's just a matter of where in the xpac

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the Forbidden Reach book isn't subtle about it

tulip sun
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Possibly. Azshara deserves so much more than to be another patch boss though

uncut vault
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Well, assuming she's not the main base xpac villain

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no better villain for a "uniting the elf tribes" story than the evil elf

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especially since the patch stories will more than likely move into more cosmic void stuff rather than stick to elf focus

deep pawn
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I'll be shocked if we don't get Naga allied race with fishy elf illusion forms

tulip sun
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I support people wanting their races. But I cannot dislike an idea any more than that.

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If I get Naga and am forced into just an elf form šŸ’€

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If we get Naga I hope they just suck it up and leave them as their OG forms

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I would be shocked if we don't get forest trolls in some way

deep pawn
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You could likely stay in snake form if you wanted just like Dracthyr can

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the fishy night elf forms are for transmog

tulip sun
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They'd be able to have everything but legs most likely. Not any different than mechagnomes.

deep pawn
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they'd be too big

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plus mounts

tulip sun
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So I would be forced into non Naga

uncut vault
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You'd need such a fundamental rewrite of what make naga narratively interesting to justify an elf form anyways

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to the point where you might as well just write a different fishy elf race

tulip sun
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Yeah I really don't vibe with the idea of Naga suddenly having some sort of visage form

pulsar minnow
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Also, as it is, Dracthyr being unable to equip player armor has worked out to be... not the best

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imo, its either make Naga, well, Naga. Or don't make them at all.

dense plover
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alpha is back up

deep pawn
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Naga are probably only behind Ogres in terms of requests

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it's a question of how they implement, and I think dracthyr overall were a success given they're epanding their classes

tulip sun
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I don't know if that is the way to determine success enough to replicate it needlessly

deep pawn
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I just want a snake in combat

tulip sun
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I'm 100% down for Naga

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If they're actual Naga and not some fake out elf form

deep pawn
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Even if you can spend 99% of your time snakey unless you want to ride older mounts?

tulip sun
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It's just completely unnecessary and would kind of ruin the Naga as far as I'm concerned

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They don't need any other form. They've never been able to do that.

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And most of them are not the OG highborne transformed- theyre descendents. So I don't know why they would want to go back to an elf form when they've lived as a Naga their entire life.

deep pawn
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An attempt to blend in and not be so scary if it happens while Azshara is in charge of the Void well?

tulip sun
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I'm sorry but I can't see it or agree with it. They're Naga, they should be Naga. Them having a visage form suddenly would be very odd.

deep pawn
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No weirder than genetically modified Tarasek having visages

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Do you forget that we all used illusion magic in Legion?

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It's not a stretch that a normal naga or elf could learn it.

tulip sun
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A neat illusion trick isn't the same as a permanent, dragon like visage form

deep pawn
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I have called it an illusion multiple times in the same vein as Azshara, but because they aren't her, theirs is imperfect and slightly scaly

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So rather then trying to model things around a tail, just give them Dracthyr level armor customization in Naga form and let them wear mogs in Illusion

tulip sun
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There's no reason they would be as limited as dracthyr

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What your describing is a visage form- which the Naga don't have

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And have no reason to have

deep pawn
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And like I said there was no reason for evolved Tarasek to have them either but here we are.

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To have playable Naga there must be a solution about the legs and boots issue and 99% of mounts

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(plus gives the devs to make their favorite, elf variants)

tulip sun
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If they are just a glorified elf reskin then I'd rather not have them.

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That would not be naga.

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and that is that. I am not going to change my view of this no matter the stipulations you say lol

deep pawn
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If you think an optional illusion form ruins a race I am so sorry you feel that way.

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Are worgen just humans to you?

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Are Dracthyr just male elves and female humans?

tulip sun
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Worgen literally are cursed humans. Dracthyr are machines of war created with the power of the dragonflights- they have the power of dragons, including a visage form.

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Naga, yes- were originally cursed elves, but they have evolved to be so much more than that in 10,000 years. They are their own people, most of them are just Naga and never have been highborne elves.

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Theres no reason for them to have a highborne elf form.

uncut vault
tulip sun
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Gilneans are humans who were cursed within the last decade to become werewolf creatures- not comparable at all, like I mentioned above. And Dracthyr literally were artificially created to be have the powers of the dragons.

uncut vault
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and I'd rather that not happen to naga too

tulip sun
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Like, I respect people want what they want. But I will never agree nor like the idea.

uncut vault
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Naga culture is pretty fundamentally built around the pride in their forms that were built in the image of Azshara, she only ever really uses an elf illusion for moments of deceit

deep pawn
tulip sun
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Even Vashj, who was one of the original Highborne, decided to recreate her Naga form in the damned afterlife.

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Not her elf form.

deep pawn
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That's why any illusion would purely be to put the other members of the Alliance and Horde at ease of they so choose to do so.

tulip sun
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A basic illusion spell is not a basis for an extra two body types for a race.

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and if the factions can't handle Naga in their ranks, then they wouldn't be made playable at all

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They don't need an illusion to be around.

deep pawn
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If you say so. I'm just willing to compromise so people can get Naga in combat and the ability to show off pants and boots in town if they do choose and ride more than a racial chariot/rug mount.

tulip sun
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If they wanna show off pants and boots, there are Kaldorei and Nightborne

deep pawn
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And don't say pride or anything. If a clan of Naga were to join the others it's because Azshara does something they are ashamed of and are turning against their essentially God-Queen

tulip sun
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If you want to play a Naga- a serpentine race with a tail, and expect pants and boots

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That is an issue with that person

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Not the race

deep pawn
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It's more about how do you make them fit the current game mechanics more than anything else. At least they aren't too big unlike Ogres

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I never expect to see Ogres. At best we'll get Moknathal

tulip sun
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Ogres in lore range from tauren size to vrykul and everywhere in between

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Theres no reason size should stop them

deep pawn
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Tauren are already shrunk down for gameplay purposes and ogres are bigger than them usually

tulip sun
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In game, yes. Like a lot of NPCs they are abnormally enlarged

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But they fit perfectly fine as tauren-size, in lore and gameplay

deep pawn
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If you say so, but Tauren as I said are already shrunk. They're supposed to be much bigger than Orcs or Humans

dense plover
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THEY FIXED IT

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YOU CAN FLY OUT OF THE COREWAY

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IT GOES BOTH DIRECTIONS

deep pawn
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I would find it odd for an ogre to be barely bigger than a troll or orc.

dense plover
tulip sun
dense plover
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they got rid of the key check too

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tulip sun
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Getting ready for beta I suppose

dense plover
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yeah idk when they did it - i guess during downtime?

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dont know when they changed the name

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deep pawn
dense plover
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they cleaned up this animation too

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new story description

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oh damn

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the load was so smooth

tropic trail
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This looks so nice.

dense plover
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finally have a key to test this

image.png
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its 2/4

image.png
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still no undercoin

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its the same quest as the storm rook titan end campaign quest

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but there are damage orbs around it

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15 crests, what essentially amounts to 1 blue delve key, and 631 gold

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also 55 valorstones i didnt include for some reason

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200 rep too

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capital has weather

image.png
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testing how flying down is working

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via FP not dynamic flying

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damn, still causes a loadscreen

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this looks pretty obvious now

image.png
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pretty much guarantee this will open up for a future patch zone

deep pawn
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11.2, Harronir

dense plover
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might even be .1

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who knows!

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we dont have a forbidden reach area like in DF

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not one i can think of at least

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in my mind 11.2 is undermine

deep pawn
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I think we'd see something like "rootoutdoor" if we were going there before Undermine

dense plover
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there was some weird stuff on the early maps

zealous sedge
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Could the lake in Hallowfall point to patch? Seems like what Iā€™ve read itā€™s pretty undiscovered and there are some potentially weird things down there. But please, no more underwater zones.

dense plover
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its an underground ocean

zealous sedge
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Oh whoops okay ocean haha

dense plover
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and no - its a fatigue zone

zealous sedge
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Hmmm okay cool

dense plover
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theres nothing out there

deep pawn
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they basically said "We want a sunny beach underground"

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and bam

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I don't like the light in hallowfall, it's all wrong

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it triggers my flight response.

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uncanny valley and all

tiny stream
dense plover
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Do you mean the forbidden reach?

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Not the same thing - there was stuff there

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Thereā€™s nothing in the ocean - itā€™s empty

green moth
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is this what your .flavor.info contents look like too? For TWW Alpha?

Product Flavor!STRING:0
wow_beta
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and is your version also 11.0.0.54935 ?

tropic trail
sullen dawn
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Imo 11.1 is undermine, and 11.2 is 'heart of azeroth' a zone near the core which is very 'journeu to the centre of the earth'

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Jungles, oceans, dinosaurs etc..

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Throw in harronir and root stuff

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Basically a big 'life' zone supercharged by all the spirit Azeroth sucked up

harsh wedge
# dense plover Do you mean the forbidden reach?

They meant where Amidrassil is right now, as Bel'amenth is the night elf city inside of it, I don't remember if there was fatigue in it but it was an empty ocean too at first (although it was an obvious place for something later)

tulip sun
deep pawn
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I'd at least feel that way if only Tauren sized ogres got to join. That'd basically be Mok'nathal

opaque pewter
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Playable race is a subset of a race anyway, so it won't really introduce lore issue
Kinda like how the Worgen we play are Gilneans but not the other types

tulip sun
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And countless Ogres are already in the horde

dense plover
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New vendor build

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Potential for another alpha today

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I think itā€™s unlikely to be the beta build

dense plover
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alpha restart soon - build maybe

dense plover
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nvm

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i was wrong

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theyre back

image.png
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this isnt worth it

image.png image.png
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the fragments are trash

deep pawn
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Sounds like feedback

dense plover
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ive given it this week

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didnt know earlier

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i just dont need this many blue keys

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they give more stuff from bountiful delves but im not gonna run 5 bountiful delves a week or something

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honestly if i could use multiple keys in a single delve or something that would help

deep pawn
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Remember running 5+ delves a week is exactly what they intend

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Maybe not for everyone, but it's the world content end game and vault filler.

rustic herald
tepid fiber
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šŸ¤”

dense plover
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hey can you guys read my general feedback i am gonna post on the forum and let me know if you think i should cut anything or edit it?

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https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/general-feedback-regarding-locations-rewards-and-eventsdelves/1866893 i posted

World of Warcraft Forums
General Feedback Regarding Locations, Rewards, and Events/Delves

I wanted to put down my general feedback from the alpha now that we are about to enter beta. The Entrance to The Rookery Dungeon Should be at the Door in Front of The Rookery. The entrance being in Dornogal will not only lead to more people inside the city (lag/load time) but also it blocks one of the coolest exits to the city with a dungeon p...

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was this in the collections panel before? i dont remember this

image.png
upper pasture
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it is not on retail if that's what you mean. i logged into the alpha today and saw it and thought it was a pretty neat addition

zealous sedge
deep pawn
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I'll read when I get home. I'm not sure what they can do with delves cause if the goal is to do 6 of them a week or something to fill the vault they can't be too good loot wise.

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I have to imagine it's like keys where every 5 you do you're expected to get a drop

upper pasture
#

didn't they say the would cap delves loot at heroic raid?

uncut vault
dense plover
uncut vault
#

if you've got that level of privilege on the forum, might be useful to add that

#

I have a feeling delve affixes are going to be a seasonal thing tbh

#

new allies will only add so much, adding twists to the actual gameplay of the existing delves are the only way they're going to have longevity across an xpac

dense plover
#

i do not have that permission

#

but i can add links

silent urchin
#

I assume there's going to be new delves as well

#

maybe not an entire new set though

dense plover
#

nope cant post links either

#

i might be able to use wowhead links tho

#

nope

#

there just arent any to the area

dense plover
#

but as of right now i legitimately dont think there is enough variety

#

especially since once you reach max level you really only want to run the bountiful ones

#

and at least on alpha, theres one bountiful per zone and we dont know how fast theyll rotate yet

#

could be every few hours, could be once or twice a week

#

youll burn out fast as is

dense plover
#

makes no sense to leave the actual rookery barren and take up a chunk of space in the city RIGHT near the portals and rep vendors

uncut vault
#

imagine if they'd done that for dazar'alor

dense plover
#

standing at the proposed entrance and looking back at the current one

image.png
#

i think its there because technically the dungeon starts on the ledge on the other side of the portal

#

but thats not a good reason

#

standing in front of the current portal - that huge tower is equivalent to the central tower in dragonflight - rep vendors and portals are in here

image.png
#

its gonna be laggy af if they keep this

#

entrance side of the building for context

image.png
ionic terrace
#

Portals do tend to take you right to the other side so it would be weird

#

And I think redoing the dungeon wonā€™t happen

#

I guess they could cut that part but then thereā€™s other issues

ionic terrace
#

Along with siege of boralus closer to the trade stuff

dense plover
#

and being so close to the main hub area is gonna lead to a ton of lag

deep pawn
#

didn't seem that bad in BfA

tropic trail
dense plover
tropic trail
#

They wanna change to this entrance? It looks a bit better

dense plover
#

thats why i suggested it

#

read above

#

i made a big forum post

tropic trail
#

Yea I just checked

deep pawn
#

Is there any trash or anything that spawns on that first platform?

#

BfA the horde spent a lot of time on the docks and that's where the Motherlode started and all islands

#

Warfronts too

#

Can you fly around the entrance and stuff?

dense plover
dense plover
pulsar minnow
#

Yeah that raid entrance bothered me from the very beginning. I donā€™t like major cities just having a dungeon right there

#

I mean I think Siege Of Boralus was right underneath tradewinds market but, even then it was out of the way

#

I already know people will accidentally run into that dungeon portal alllll the time

harsh mason
#

Because there is literally a huge arch with an entrance.

#

You can accidentally run in there only if you put an autorun and leave

#

And then there is a chance of 1/100000000

cosmic beacon
pulsar minnow
dense plover
ionic terrace
#

this platform is where the dungeon starts and there is trash

image.png
#

so if they did move it, they would either need to cut that part of the dungeon but also make sure there's enough for M+ forces

#

or have you still start there

#

tbh i don't think it's an issue

#

if you do somehow fly into it, just leave

dense plover
#

its just weird it starts in the city

#

especially such a busy part of the city

plain violet
#

We have some nice new icons...

spell_priest_ascendance_shadow.jpg spell_bastion_priest_shadow.jpg
rain cave
#

maybe that's for an archon talent rework?

#

since that's been the most disliked of the priest specs

#

I was surprised that they went with oracle for disc/holy, you could make a cool version of it for shadow/holy since they both represent their own version of future scrying

#

and would have let archon fully lean in to just buffing yourself up with big light wings

plain violet
#

Im surprised too for oracle about disc.. And I would have liked archon to be yeah.. big light wings, I mean, the fantasy of the spec is "perfect form" and "higher being" but the spells never show that, it's just "halo spammer".

#

So maybe that, or maybe for NPC?

deep pawn
#

Halo looks sick moving in and out

deep pawn
#

And I'd say Oracle is still least favorite. It's just so dull

dense plover
#

curious about your thoughts on something

#

what if - at the start of the expac - you couldn't fly within the city of threads? The more I play there, the more i feel like flight trivializes all of the stealth/pheromone aspects that were present in suramar

silent urchin
#

I have a feeling they were considering that cause there's a lot of built in traversal options

#

but it feels like it would be a bit much

deep pawn
#

No one in this day wants travel to be annoying

dense plover
#

i know, but i also worry that people will explore the entire city in like a week and be bored

#

part of what made suramar interesting was entire districts being inaccessible until the story was at that point

deep pawn
#

That's not what made Suramar interesting, at least for me.

#

I enjoyed it much more once I could fly in it.

silent urchin
#

Suramar was also much easier to traverse, for the most part

pulsar minnow
#

Canā€™t fly for long and whatnot. I loved the ā€œhiding in the streetsā€ vibe Suramar provided. Made the city feel much more alive

#

Flying over it makes it feel small

dense plover
opaque pewter
#

Djardin grace period was long enough to bypass it, but yeah, if there was some kind of RP that would prevent flying exploration it would be more acceptable to a lot of people

ember blaze
dense plover
#

not my images - just sharing from a different discord

image.png image.png image.png
#

looks like story mode means you can still get the raid reward!

#

so thats nice

upper pasture
#

from the story quest? i mean that makes sense no?

dense plover
#

no apparently a side quest?

#

but i think its one of the weaver's quests so technically zone story

plain violet
upper pasture
#

yeah but it's the similar to the campaign quests that end the chapters now. like the sark one and the fyrakk one. just now you don't actually need a raid group to finish it you can just do the solo queue.

#

anyone who thought you couldn't earn credit from the solo queue would have to be delusional. like what would really be the point of story mode if you couldn't finish the campaign quest with it.

#

i think the real question people want answered is if there is additional raid loot to be had from it. (which i don't think it should or will)

warm topaz
dense plover
warm topaz
#

good!

deep pawn
#

My only issue is story mode has to wait 2 months

rain cave
#

yeah should be at same day, or at least shorter wait time

deep pawn
#

Who the hell cares if your guildies see the story before you do normal or aotc

rain cave
#

you could maybe argue that people could get a look at mechanics quickly? but so what people test on PTR if they want to be viable

#

so it's a moot point

upper pasture
#

The problem lies with the people who will feel like they need to clear the story mode before actually doing it in a raid setting and then the groups that would require it too

#

But either way I couldnā€™t care less when itā€™s released since itā€™s not content for me since i raid

rain cave
#

does story mode have any noticeable rewards?

upper pasture
#

You can complete the campaign and earn the upgrade stuff

tulip sun
#

Just release it after the first day or something. First kill should be done by then

rain cave
#

after first week then if it unlocks something

#

but really I don't think it matters

#

but if it matters to them, I still don't understand why end of LFR

pulsar minnow
#

If anything I think itā€™d be better to make the story mode open after 1 week, so that first clears are done and whatnot

upper pasture
#

Either way it makes little difference. I think with the LFR wing makes the most sense. Since a solo player would then be left behind if they donā€™t want to be playing with others

rain cave
#

I don't see that as good because they're left behind story wise specifically

#

which has been an issue with WoW storytelling

upper pasture
#

But they wouldnā€™t be with story mode. Hence why they made the story modeā€¦

rain cave
#

but if the story mode is 2 months later

#

they're left behind by 2 months

upper pasture
#

Just like LFR

rain cave
#

correct

#

which is an issue

#

for story specifically

upper pasture
#

And thatā€™s their choice by engaging in solo play

rain cave
#

lets say you're a big story guy, but not a big raid guy

#

you have to resort to out of game sources to catch up to the story

#

watching end raid cinematics

upper pasture
#

Then you wait for the story mode to come out or you raid with a group????

tepid fiber
#

That's what story mode is for

rain cave
#

I think you're missing the point ;p

tepid fiber
#

No, I think you are

rain cave
#

people who like story like to jump on day 1

#

and SEE the story

tepid fiber
#

They raid

rain cave
#

there's a reason that people queue up to see a film on opening night

tepid fiber
#

If you want to see the story and not raid, you don't raid and wait for story mode

#

If you want story day one, you raid

#

That is your decision, that you make

rain cave
#

adding a day 1 story mode, or at least a week 2. Doesn't make a difference to people who raid as a core.

#

not really a decision lmao

#

since it's blizzards call on when the story mode releases

upper pasture
#

To engage in solo only play, yes it is

tepid fiber
#

You're already getting spoonfed, you want your ass wiped too?

rain cave
#

no need to be hostile

#

it's not even beeing spoonfed

tepid fiber
#

It's just a little silly, is all

rain cave
#

yeah it is a little silly to release it 2 months later lmao

upper pasture
#

It really isnā€™t tho.

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

the purpose it serves as a story mode is countered by its release time

upper pasture
#

And if you want to story with no raiding then you wait

rain cave
#

the reward from raiding is loot primarily, people do engage in the story but primarily as a gameplay thing people enjoy raiding FOR the raid encounters

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

WoW has HISTORICALLY had an issue with non-raiders or people who don't raid much not knowing whats going on

tepid fiber
#

If you don't want content delivered over time, you don't play a live service game. You play a single player game experience where it's all pre-packaged

rain cave
#

with a more complicated narrative with newer characters, it is helpful to funnel people through the story content asap

tepid fiber
#

They've even been adding the cutscenes into the questlines

#

They've added story descriptions for the bosses in Adventure Mode for context

quartz lintel
#

from WW beta

image.png
tepid fiber
#

All of these things have been added and provided due to these issues

quartz lintel
#

A hint about a WoD Remix during War Within perhaps ?

rain cave
#

on top of that, if people know what the story is and get to experience it firsthand on day one, even if they're not a big raider and mainly a lore person. Then they can engage with lore conversations day 1, building hype for next patch and potentially keeping them subbed via engagement

tepid fiber
#

All of these changes continue to be made--even the inclusion of the new story mode

tepid fiber
#

When you choose not to, you choose not to

rain cave
#

timegating is an annoying thing MMO's do, I don't see the purpose in timegating the purely story oriented mode. Since it won't fill the niche it's supposed to.

upper pasture
#

it's time gated due to their own lack of effort tho

rain cave
#

"oh look a story mode 2 months later"
If people wanted the story only, they'd just go watch the cinematics on youtube lmao

#

this isn't gear though

tepid fiber
#

If they wanted the story ASAP, they'd put in the effort to see the story ASAP before it's delivered in the normal pacing

#

We're not talking about gear

#

You are

rain cave
#

I'm saying it makes no sense to timegate it

#

because it has no power value

tepid fiber
#

You're inventing your own obstacles, your problems are all self-designed

#

There is sense, you just don't like it

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

gumball broski, my friend.

#

no need to be so aggressive to me

#

and project

tepid fiber
#

I'm not, I'm speaking with no tone

#

You're projecting one onto text

#

I'm explaining

#

Now let me explain

rain cave
#

I KNOW what you guys are saying, I'm just saying that if you think it through in terms of its actual sense, it's target market as a feature. It misses.

#

for you maybe it makes sense, as people who raid or whatever

#

but for the people it's aimed at it misses.

deep pawn
#

Story should not be tied to you finding 9 other people minimum

tepid fiber
#

For the people it's aimed at it's still delivering the story at a thematic pace with the rest of the content. The campaigns still take place in progressive chapters, and they basically always treat the raid resolution as taking place later on or near the end of those chapters. That's why you don't see the ending cutscenes in campaign questlines (another added feature, delivering more access to story content to non-raiders and fixing a previous issue) right at the beginning of the campaign--storywise, in-setting, the events of the raid haven't been completed yet

rain cave
#

the people this feature is aimed at -> people who want to easily experience the story, but for some reason or another, do not raid. (Time, skill, interests in gameplay, etc).

Lets use something like avengers endgame as an example, people who were hyped up to see that film will go see it day 1, or even week 1. Doesn't matter, the point is EARLY.
They can then engage socially in that interest quickly afterwards, as they have now seen it and can engage in the activity they enjoy, discussing it. reviewing and speculating or whatever.
If someone shows up 2 months late to tha group, they'll have missed out, been left behind socially.

#

Therefore, the target market will just resort to watching raid cinematics and nobbel videos like they always have.

tepid fiber
deep pawn
#

Raids are considered resolved the week the raid releases, what?

rain cave
deep pawn
#

The story progresses regardless of whether your character did the full raid week one or not

#

That's why tying it to lfr schedule is stupid

rain cave
#

also cheers kyle

deep pawn
#

Remember Zereth Mortis? They freaking showed you the Anduin cinematic.

rain cave
#

I don't think many people like timegating tbf

#

it's uses usually should be very specific :p

deep pawn
#

Why? Cause Anduin is who fixed Sylvanas

rain cave
#

even then, stories don't HAVE to play out in order.

#

and it's more about the option more than anything

upper pasture
#

man, just wish blizzard would release everything in one whole week so that people can blast through everything in one week and then cry for the rest of the season that "blizzard has killed themsevles and that WoW is dead"

deep pawn
#

Or rather mixing it up

tepid fiber
#

I feel like impatient gimmes don't like timegating

deep pawn
#

Uther fixed Sylvanas, who helped free Anduin who got us to the jailer.

#

But the entire Zereth Mortis plot proceeded regardless

rain cave
#

it's not impatient gimmies it's just that I hate arbitrary blocks on content

upper pasture
#

but like there IS a path to the story you are just choosing not to take it as a non raider

deep pawn
#

Or Venthyr helping Kael'thas before his lfr wing came out

rain cave
#

week 1 I do the campaign because patch releases, hit the timegate and then usually don't finish it because I don't KNOW when/what and why

deep pawn
#

The story should not be locked to finding 9+ other people to do it.

upper pasture
#

before you didn't have a path to see the cutscene as a non LFR/non raider. now you do.

rain cave
#

if the whole campaign was available, I'd just coax through it gradually

tepid fiber
# upper pasture man, just wish blizzard would release everything in one whole week so that peop...

People complain about week 1 burnout and content tourism, then changes happen to increase engagement, then people complain about mandatory engagement, then changes happen and more content is released week 1, then people complain about week 1 burnout and content tourism, then changes happen to increase engagement, then people complain about mandatory engagement, then changes happen and more content is released week 1, then people complain about week 1 burnout and content tourism...

upper pasture
tepid fiber
#

This is how it always happens but Gamers are selfish, self-centered narcissists with zero pattern recognition capabilities

deep pawn
#

I don't give a damn about people playing for a month then going elsewhere. Good if the game lets you do that

tepid fiber
#

That's my point

#

Fuck dracthyr_lulmao

upper pasture
#

blizzard lets you do that. if you play at the end of the season. not during the first few weeks.

tepid fiber
#

You have to see and understand how what YOU want affects OTHER PLAYERS TOO

rain cave
#

if the game isn't sustainable on people coming back in bursts for major updates and then petering off, then they've either failed to create a live service that has a reason to keep playing, or they've failed to match their business model

upper pasture
#

you don't want to play at the pace of everyone else? wait until the end of the expansion. easy

rain cave
#

also we have events now like remix and plunder to keep people beyond first months

deep pawn
#

How, that people get to see the story without engaging in the premade group finder?

upper pasture
#

story mode

#

the fuck

rain cave
#

lehr lets say you want to see the new raid cinematic on day 1

#

what do you do

tepid fiber
#

šŸ™„

rain cave
#

your friends are in vc waiting to talk about it

upper pasture
#

i raid.

tepid fiber
#

I raid

rain cave
#

ok cool, now imagine you have no raid team

upper pasture
#

if we don't clear week 1 i still wait and i raid week 2

tepid fiber
#

If I want to see it early, I put in the work to see it early

tropic trail
#

Usually they would not unlock story if you didnā€™t have enough reputation, so I wonder how they will do this in that raid. Maybe it will be unlocked gradually each week.

tepid fiber
deep pawn
#

It is outdated as hell that to experience the patch campaign in order as it releases you are required to group with people to do normal.

upper pasture
#

then i LFG or i wait for LFR

tepid fiber
#

I take initiative and quit complaining and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT

rain cave
#

cya in 7 hours lmao

#

what if you're busy the next day?

tepid fiber
#

I didn't say pug

deep pawn
rain cave
tepid fiber
#

Jesus fucking christ

upper pasture
#

IT IS TIMEGATED FOR EVERYONE HOMIE

deep pawn
#

I can do normal, that's not an issue for me, but I will still say it's stupid to timegate story mode.

tepid fiber
# rain cave that is pugging

No, I mean if I don't have a consistent group of people to play with and I want a consistent group of people to play with, I find a consistent group of people to play with or make a consistent group of people to play with

#

Fuck

rain cave
tepid fiber
#

Doing something about it is better than complaining about it

rain cave
#

I've not been in a guild for years, because they promote a weird unhealthy social climbing thing

tepid fiber
#

Yes, every guild 100% šŸ™„

#

You're the reason you cannot find a guild

#

Accept that

#

Just admit it. If you wanted to be in a guild, you would be in one

rain cave
#

joined a guild to raid, got kicked because raid lead was giving wrong mechanic info and I tried to point out some tips

#

also I play US but live in EU

tepid fiber
#

And?

rain cave
#

so timezones are fucked

tepid fiber
#

Then you work around it

deep pawn
#

In FF14 you can queue for every single story moment or do it with NPCs. Only WoW seems fixated on the idea that to get the story in order as intended you have to premake a group to do normal

tepid fiber
#

There are plenty of US people who play during EU active times

rain cave
#

is the juice worth the squeeze?

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

just because there is a solution, doesn't mean it's ideal or worth doing

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

my main point is how the target market for the story mode won't use it

tepid fiber
deep pawn
#

No, WoW needs to get with the damn times instead of being worried about some casual raiders getting to see the story as intended vs doing the outside campaign as if some other nobodies killed the raid boss for them.

rain cave
tepid fiber
#

God, I'd be so fucking miserable if I chose to be miserable dracthyr_lulmao

rain cave
#

I'm not miserable lmao

#

happiest I've been in months

tepid fiber
#

Apparently, because you're complaining

rain cave
#

I'm critiquing

deep pawn
#

Neither am I. Story mode is a great addition. If should be available week 1

rain cave
#

agreed

#

otherwise the same thing will keep happening

#

if you just want story week1/day 1

#

you just go to youtube

#

if it's day 1 atleast story enjoyers have a reason to be subbed to experience the story firsthand lmao

deep pawn
#

Organized raiding should not be required to progress the story in time in 2024.

rain cave
#

there's a similar argument here that piracy uses

#

if it's more convenient to just, go watch the cinematics and quests

#

people will

#

but yeah for me WoW has never felt very social

#

the guilds I have been in have always had problems

#

like keeping me up late, having toxic social groups, or just not being where I am at skill wise

#

it's also just... draining

tepid fiber
#

How fucking dare a multiplayer game work best when played with other people, right? Man, it should just be tiktok on the toilet with no lights on, right?

rain cave
#

fun sure, I have had some good raiding in guilds

rain cave
tepid fiber
#

WoW is well-known for being a single-player campaign RPG, after all, right?

#

Delusional

rain cave
#

this isn't removing anything gumball šŸ˜­

deep pawn
#

It's still multiplayer, you'll see people all around you. It's just required to do something no other game does these days to see the story without getting spoiled by the damn game itself.

tepid fiber
#

Absolutely delusional

rain cave
#

it's just addding more appeal to different players

#

all I can give is my feedback

#

and tbf if there is a market for singleplayer warcraft stuff, maybe they should explore that rather than lock it behind the MMO

#

would be sick to get warcraft 4 or some other experience

deep pawn
#

No no, if people can see the story without having to raid day one it'll be the end of raiding entirely! Can't you see?

rain cave
#

gumball the kinda guy to say you can't order from the kids menu because you're over 18 fr fr

deep pawn
#

The only reason to be against story mode day 1 is you either think it'll make people not raid or feel they don't deserve to see the story. And both are horrible positions to have I feel.

#

If the only reason to raid is for story, then the raid isn't engaging enough on its own.

rain cave
#

aye, it's not like it's taking resources as far as we know either.

deep pawn
#

And story mode isn't even the whole raid, it's a single damn boss.

rain cave
#

if they need those 2 months to figure out how to downscale mechanics

#

they should convey that ig

deep pawn
#

Imagine nyalotha without doing Wrathion or rescuing Azshara

rain cave
#

would at least reassure me a bit

warm topaz
#

is a free win for everyone who play wow

rain cave
#

reminds me of the playstation exclusivity debate lmao

deep pawn
#

If raid engagement is that fragile, then let raiding die.

rain cave
#

also true

#

WoW is the only game I can think of that still had raiding as a core experience

#

of this scale though

#

I get it, it's a cool niche. People feel strong about it because it's one of their cultural touchstones, it should be preserved

#

but to preserve something in all its glory does have a cost, and if they can find something that helps lessen that cost by bringing in more players, go for it!

deep pawn
#

They took the main story beats out of dungeon and raid this expansion for a reason. They want to add it back

rain cave
#

yeah it was a bit weird around aberrus how fyrakk was central to the plot, setting up for next patch, but then aberrus itself's story just kind of stopped there

#

we couldn't dwell on the implications of the giant void mirror in aberrus because fyrakk was too busy being setup in the quests and world events

#

in a different xpacs style, we probably would have seen fyrakk sieging aberrus with the djardin in order to claim the shadowflame within

deep pawn
#

I'm all for the story climax to happen inside the raid, I just disagree that I need to be there with 9+ other people when the NPCs get the credit anyways

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

then why are we arguing ;p

deep pawn
#

You weren't presenting your argument well then. All I got was you think it'd hurt raiding population to do it.

tepid fiber
#

But it's okay. I'm beyond past expecting those two to have any deductive reasoning skills

rain cave
#

gumball bro what is your issue with me šŸ˜­

#

am I too zoomer for you or something

warm topaz
tepid fiber
#

At no point did I say or state or relate any message discussing or associating the release of story mode damaging the raid population

#

I said nothing about the raid population

deep pawn
rain cave
#

gumball my guy I hate to say it but like, this isn't how people communicate if they want to come to agreeing points or be somewhat amicable in their discsussions

#

if you think day 1/ week 1 story mode is fine, just say "I think it would be fine, but..."

#

instead of going on a whole thing and getting personal, being spiteful, etc

#

I'm not here to argue.

tepid fiber
#

I did not say it would negatively impact anything

#

You did

rain cave
#

lehr did, specifically I remember

#

I was arguing it wouldn't

tepid fiber
#

That's why you two annoy the shit out of me, because you're not actually arguing against what I'm saying. You're arguing against something else

deep pawn
tepid fiber
#

I reiterate, repeat, emphasize words so you can read what I'm trying to say and you still ignore it

rain cave
#

Gum at no point did you say you were in favour for day 1/ week1 storymode. Only provided statements about the current system in argumentative replies to us

tulip sun
#

I havnt seen people other than you against story mode being sooner

rain cave
#

if you were in favour for it, why not just blatantly say so in stead of giving us the rigmarole?

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

instead of saying "yeah they should do X" or some other variation in agreement with slight alterations to your taste. You just told people to raid if they want story day 1 lmao

#

like this level of verbosity and passive hostility is borderline bait/trolling behaviour to me

tepid fiber
#

Because that's the current situation as it exists. If you want to see the story on day 1, you raid. That is an objective fact. I did not say that story mode day 1 would be negative, I did not say that it would damage the raiding community

#

You put those words in my mouth

rain cave
#

as someone who's literal job it is to make sure things are clearly communicated, and intent shine through. You're not doing a very good job šŸ˜­

tepid fiber
#

I say the words I say because those are the words I say

tulip sun
#

Okay it's getting a bit tense here

rain cave
#

yeah gumball is just something else tonight man

tepid fiber
#

I'm not trying to be intense, I'm trying to be clear dracthyr_lulmao

rain cave
#

I don't type in here much so

#

whatever gum

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

my job

#

not yours

tepid fiber
#

You didn't state that clearly

#

You didn't say it was your job

rain cave
rain cave
deep pawn
#

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were adding something entirely different to the conversation vs continuing the story mode. It wasn't presented as a separate topic so I thought it was related to your points about how people should just raidm

rain cave
#

so I cleared it

tepid fiber
#

Maybe I come off as hostile/annoyed because it's annoying for people to say you're saying things you didn't say lmao

rain cave
#

I mean, maybe it's not that we're saying you said things

#

and more that we're voicing frustration against things others are saying that you are also adjacent to even if not sided with

tulip sun
#

As someone who has just been observing, I was reading it the same way Gumball.

rain cave
#

like I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm just critiquing/discussing an idea that you think we are tagging on you

#

ideas aren't attached to people after all

#

the level to which we could debate this go into bloddy philosophical

tepid fiber
#

Well, you say that, but a person has to come up with and have an idea before it can be shared

rain cave
#

so there's no point trying to dislike eachother on false pretenses

#

even if there's disdain, it's better to aim for better relations if we're on the same side no? even if we were disagreeing it would be wise.

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

let me put it straight, would you want day 1 story mode?

tepid fiber
#

I wasn't taking sides, I was stating objective fact

tulip sun
#

Let's not blame it on them lol

rain cave
#

I mean, this is a place for discussion so

#

forgive me if it's a bit confusing if you're just there throwing current statements into discussions about the future changes that could happen and things getting a bit whirly

tepid fiber
#

Yes but again I wasn't taking a side, I was stating objective details. If you want to see the story on day 1 then you raid, or wait until story mode becomes available. I'm saying this without any opinion directed this way or that way

rain cave
#

so what was the purpose of the statements ;p

tepid fiber
#

Not everything has to be an argument

#

I feel like you kind of just expect me to argue and then jump into an argument

rain cave
#

I never come in here looking to start arguments Gum

#

I'm not an argumentative person anymore

#

younger me was, maybe there's still lingering reputation from then

#

I've been here a while.

tepid fiber
#

Y'all are the reason I smoke dracthyr_lulmao

rain cave
tepid fiber
rain cave
#

we could get it

tepid fiber
#

Okay but we're not

rain cave
tepid fiber
#

And when they change, they will change

rain cave
#

it's worth having the discussions earlier so they can pivot and interperate it

tepid fiber
#

But that change hasn't happened, so that's not the case

tulip sun
#

Gumball. Everyone knows how it works

rain cave
#

as a game dev, early feedback is sooo important

tulip sun
#

They were discussing wanting to see the story mode released earlier

rain cave
#

we don't even know their given reasoning for the 2 month gap

#

there could be a legitimate reason for it we haven't considered

tepid fiber
#

And that's fine. Am I not allowed to discuss the current state?

tulip sun
#

You arguing, just saying the same thing about raiding is easily considered opposing that idea.

rain cave
#

like downscaling mechanics for example

ember blaze
#

it's such a weird line to draw

rain cave
#

it might genuinely be they don't want to delay a raid by the time it takes to optimize for story mode

tepid fiber
rain cave
#

since it's so new it takes extra dev time

#

QA testing, etc

tepid fiber
#

You can't work off of something until you have something to work off of

ember blaze
#

like what is with this weird line set for delaying LFR for so long? and now storymode as well

rain cave
#

it's not a complaint to blizz, just a discussion of their perceived direction and user experience

tulip sun
#

Gumball, since I've looked in here you are the one in bad faith and being rude. But okay. Best to just agree to disagree

rain cave
#

difficulty settings are complicated

tepid fiber
ember blaze
#

raids are an integral part of the story, so what is the deal with delaying the handheld mode you made?

#

which is a way for people to see that story and engage with it?

rain cave
ember blaze
#

"just raid on the other difficulties" well why have LFR in the first place? and now add an even more basic mode for just the story?

deep pawn
#

Blizzard's argument is that they don't want small guilds who take weeks on normal to get spoiled on the fights

rain cave
#

so from an end user experience, it's something they need to find a solution for

ember blaze
#

and then just arbitrarily delay it

tulip sun
#

There's no real reason to postpone it. I feel like it is even a bit useless if it releases the same time as lfr

ember blaze
deep pawn
#

Those guilds get spoiled on the story regardless

rain cave
#

if that is the case

tulip sun
#

I mean, is that the case? It should be done by then

rain cave
#

1st time implementing it, maybe they need to get it right before they try rolling it out as a supported system

#

just possible reasons

#

good feedback should just focus on the end experience, don't assume intent or whatever

ember blaze
#

i dont get it

deep pawn
#

Yes

#

That's the last statement Blizzard made regarding why they won't end lfr timegate

ember blaze
#

ok so you take 3 months to kill the first boss in normal. Now all the people who just want to play through the story cant do that because of that?

tepid fiber
ember blaze
#

should we gatekeept Mythic as well and further delay the easier difficulties?

#

cause a mythic raider can just walk into normal, one shot every encounter, and "spoil" the fights

#

like???

deep pawn
#

It's blizzard's stance. I'm sure the niche they refer to exists but I haven't encountered it myself

ember blaze
#

sorry but if that's your niche, youre gonna have to be an adult and just not q story mode

deep pawn
#

They don't want to ruin the accomplishment of family guilds to kill the last boss together for the first time rather than some people doing lfr in the guild

tepid fiber
#

Perhaps having a raid designer and gameplay dev explain the process and rational from their functional working perspective would make it better to understand why they design and implement things the way they do. To be fair, there's a lot that the average player cannot understand or relate to when it comes to design decisions merely because the average player lacks the appropriate context or are ignorant of it

#

Much like the Time-to-Penis equation

deep pawn
#

Most people watch a video on the fight from ptr anyways

ember blaze
#

if you got a family guild with that intention in mind, then what's stopping them from not engaging with the story mode

deep pawn
#

I don't know. Maybe the devs think players can't help themselves? Especially if they keep tying a heroic crafting upgrade to them

tepid fiber
#

To be fair, most can't

#

Big Red Button complexes

deep pawn
#

DF did change how the post raid story works. Nothing like Shadowlands where raid events affect the next weeks campaign story.

#

Campaign just ends with the raid.

#

Only exception was Amirdrassil and that remained locked until lfr

ember blaze
deep pawn
#

It does have the downside of making the patch campaign only be a week or two

ember blaze
#

im gonna read spoilers before anything comes out. But I wouldnt demand no testing cause i cant help myself

#

if i join a community with a set goal in mind, but i cant even do that, then clearly it's not for me

#

other people shouldnt be affected negatively cuase of it

tepid fiber
#

However you also have to take into account that some people suck and are malicious to other players "for fun"

ember blaze
tepid fiber
deep pawn
#

I think their reasons for timegating are silly. I'm even okay with lfr timegating remaining for loot/tier reasons so long as story mode isn't.

deep pawn
#

The whole Anduin being rescued before you do his fight and all

tepid fiber
#

Yeah, so storyline and thematic pacing is something that they have to be aware of whenever they implement stuff like that

#

Exactly

deep pawn
#

So now their solution is people doing the story in order but not together with the community

tepid fiber
#

Well, "the community" is also a generalization

deep pawn
#

I don't like that when wowhead and others are plastered with stuff about Bel'Ameth and such

tepid fiber
#

There are lots of communities

#

True. When I don't want to see spoilers and, knowing that the news posts frequently contain spoilers, either avoid the webhooks or constant updates in favor of looking up what I want to look up

#

But that's my choice, and how I want to take in the info, so that's how I do so

#

I cannot change how wowhead posts so I adapt

deep pawn
#

Wowhead is a vital resource on guides, world event schedules and other things beyond game news.

tepid fiber
#

Yes it is, so I go there and search for things pertaining to what I want to learn about

#

Because I know what the live news feed may contain

#

So I look for my news there selectively

#

It would be silly for me to tell wowhead how to do what they do when it's me who wants something

deep pawn
#

Wowhead is allowed to do that. I have issues since Blizzard relies on wowhead semi officially on things now.

tepid fiber
#

I've always taken it as the other way around, considering that it's Blizzard's news posts and blueposts and patch notes that wowhead writes and bases many of its news posts off of

deep pawn
#

Nah, Blizzard directs players to wowheads database for various things

tepid fiber
#

That's for guides and information, I'm referring to news

deep pawn
#

Yes, but if blizzard is referring players to Wowhead for that, they should also work around how news spreads regarding story.

tepid fiber
#

I'm confused. Are you talking about guides and story spoilers, or news updates?

deep pawn
#

Delaying story in game to preserve some sort of slower pace guild environment is not sustainable when they refer players to a website that spoils story because they don't maintain their own item and quest database.

#

When said website is also the main resource to actually track in game events without logging in

tepid fiber
#

I don't see the correlation between delaying story pacing and delivery and Blizzard relying on wowhead for news, I'm sorry

deep pawn
#

I'm saying delaying story to protect an experience they say exists when they rely on a semi official database that will spoil it is opposing goals.

tepid fiber
#

Is that how it's stated they operate?

deep pawn
#

Given CMs and even CS employees will refer players directly to wowhead for things.

tepid fiber
#

Yes but which things specifically

deep pawn
#

The reason they time gate LFR is what I have to assume works for story mode too since they are tied together

tepid fiber
#

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to clarify context

#

Context and correlation rather

upper pasture
#

you know wowhead's splash page is likely specifically designed to hide all news on launch so that you don't see a headline that's spoilerish and can still use their search function and guides?

#

like there's a reason you have to scroll down to get to latest news

#

well, it doesn't hid the blue post or the little section of the text only links for latest news but if you care to avoid spoilers i'm sure you don't mindless read everything on a known website that does datamining but who knows

deep pawn
#

But players can't have access to story mode or lfr cause they can't help but spoil themselves

upper pasture
#

noone is saying they can't have access to the story mode. the reason i think blizzard has it time gated like LFR is because if they did you'd see everyone rushing the storymode first to get the reward before being "allowed" into progging raids. which would be no fun for anyone.

#

imagine apply to a raid during week 1 and being ask "do you have your crafted piece from story mode?" if you anwser no you simply wont get an invite to the raid.

deep pawn
#

Then tie that to the raid achievement

upper pasture
#

how boring do you think it would be to do the story mode THEN be able to experience the raid? oh you know the thing the story mode basically just told you all about?

#

if they did that THEN people would complain that the story mode gives no rewards and now there's no reason to finish the campaign as a whole.

#

the thing is there's a reasonable path for players who apply themselves to clear and see the end of the story in the first few weeks. and now blizzard is providing players without a guild and who have no interest in LFR a way to experience the end of the story in game without it "just watching a cutscene" or googling it.

#

the players who are going to take advantage of the story mode would have never seen the fights in game otherwise.

deep pawn
#

And I say those players shouldn't have to wait 2 months to do it or have the story spoiled by the next weeks campaign

upper pasture
#

all throughout DF the "kill the big bad" quest has been the final chapter in the patches so that's a moot point

#

have they not been?

deep pawn
#

That's been DF and I feel like that hampered the story

upper pasture
#

and you think getting story mode day one isn't going to hamper the story?

deep pawn
#

Having to wait for x.x.5 to have more than a nominal conclusion isn't great.

upper pasture
#

you think just giving all content on release isn't going to negatively impact the game in any way?

#

but you don't HAVE to wait. you could play the game

deep pawn
upper pasture
#

you (the player) actively chooses not to engage with a core pillar of the game

#

you do know that they pace us with the campaign quests too right? remember having to wait a week to do a chapters what 4-5 in the underground zone?

deep pawn
#

Yeah, cause the raid wasn't open for anyone.

upper pasture
#

and? your point. the raid is gonna be open for everyone. solo player choose to play solo. they have the same option to party up as anyone else does

deep pawn
#

If they are transitioning back to the raid moments being the campaign climaxes vs the finale, I'd rather them give the denouement the next week or weeks vs not any plot until x.x.5 cause they have to wait for everyone cause the devs timegated it themselves.

upper pasture
#

we really don't know what the implications of this story mode is other than letting solo only players experience the final raid boss without having to do LFR. hell we don't even know if it's all that important or they are just trying to future proof the "kill this raid boss" when the content isn't relevant anymore.

deep pawn
#

That's not what the blue post said.

upper pasture
#

great, you want to refresh my memory or just make a pointless statement?

uncut vault
#

a single-player story mode should solve those kinds of issues, in the same way adding single-player dungeons are solving the issue of not being able to integrate dungeons into the leveling campaign

upper pasture
#

yes but that's on the player themselves. if they don't want to be spoiled then don't go out of your way to watch the video

uncut vault
#

but the timegating prevents that from being effective, because people who want to experience the story for the story are gated

#

Like, this isn't an issue in any other MMO

tepid fiber
uncut vault
#

they all have their main story instances either soloable or queuable on an easy difficulty

#

and all of those MMOs have a larger amount of their players engaged in the story as a result, because the story gets to be experienced on your own terms

upper pasture
#

i guess then would be do these other MMOs see a drop in players for raids since you can solely experience it without the group.

uncut vault
#

No, because the story mode raids aren't done for loot

upper pasture
#

cause i'm sure the root cause of it is blizzard wants to keep players interested in raid for as long as possible

uncut vault
#

people aren't running raids 10 weeks into the season for the story haha

upper pasture
#

i mean so people are

tepid fiber
#

I'm sure we'll see how engagement is affected once story mode is actually implemented, then it would be more fair to make further predictions

#

At the moment we're kinda just left with spitballing until something sticks

#

Without actually seeing the wall

deep pawn
#

I am curious if the 10.2 campaign is actually longer or shorter than the entirety of the 9.2 campaign.

#

I know 9.2 was timegated to hell but it did let them integrate the raid story

uncut vault
#

I don't think story mode is going to change much in terms of the players who already have to wait for the final LFR wing, because LFR isnt much of a challenge anyways

upper pasture
#

i think if they removed the reward from the story quest day 1/week 1 would be fine since there wouldn't be power tied to it but then again it takes away that reward from solo players.

uncut vault
#

the current main benefit of story mode is campaign replayablity post-xpac

#

which is a very good benefit

#

but it only solves that particular issue, not the issue of current campaign rollout

deep pawn
#

I don't even know if blizzard thinks the campaign is a massive issue, that's a me grumpy thing.

upper pasture
#

because my main issue that i see is players being players they will make sure you have literally done everything you can do to get into their normal 10 man raid group

#

and that includes clearing H raid

uncut vault
#

Like was mentioned earlier, the easy solution is to tie the enchanted crest to instanced kills, not to the generic "kill her" campaign quest

#

making it a one-time drop from the final boss on specific difficulties instead of a quest reward is something they can easily do

deep pawn
#

I am torn on campaign timegating cause it does give a sense of this is taking time, even if it feels like they're stringing you along slightly. I really think for me it comes down to that if you're adding story mode, it doesn't feel right to desync players actively playing

#

People remember the Suramar campaign despite its timegating

#

Suramar campaign was in on launch right with the raid coming in 7.0.5?

uncut vault
#

7.1

#

there was a second suramar campaign that also had timegating before the raid being released

#

I think time/questing based timegating is fine, because ultimately thats A) the same release time for everyone and B) giving the story context for the raid anyways

silent urchin
#

7.1 came out very quick iirc, like 2 months post launch?

uncut vault
#

Yeah it did, but the raid took a bit longer to release

#

7.1's launch had Trial of Valor and Return to Kara

deep pawn
#

Legion was them trying story in the 7.x patches and releasing the raid in 7.x.x

#

Broken shore came out weeks before we could do Tomb if I remember too

uncut vault
#

77 days exactly haha

deep pawn
#

Yeah, the infamous 11 weeks

#

I largely think Legion had great pacing, but it required a dead WoD

#

Not that I think Superbloom could have carried the Emerald Dream for any amount of time hah

zealous sedge
#

I know this isnā€™t probably the best channel but we talk about lore a lot so I have a question. I want to get into the novels and short stories of Warcraft and thereā€™s a lot of different lists out there for which order to read them in. Does anyone here have a tried and true chronological list?

silent urchin
#

Ah, a nice, simple, non controversial topic

zealous sedge
#

Hahaha