beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

REFORGING TYR PART 4
Beginning the week of November 21, journey to the Nighthold with the Tyr's Guard in hope of retrieving Tyr's disc and restoring him. Rewards Dragon Isles Drakes: White Scales.

[blazing granite]

10.2 chapter dates:
Week 1:
Chapters 2 - 4 (chapter 1 was in 10.1.7)
Week 2:
Chapters 5 - 6, the raid, Vyranoth/Wrathion questline
Week 3:
Reforging Tyr questline

[jade basalt]

Actually it's not that art

It looks like it, but it's not actually 1:1 the same

Could've been AI generated based on it though.

Or maybe it's genuine.

[harsh mason]

Well, according to the chronology, this will happen after the raid, yea?

[deep pawn]

yep, so that leans to the repowering is independent of Tyr

[blazing granite]

The question then is why would Alex be okay with his awakening now, if Vyranoth and her not-Order flight remaining is considered. She has to acknowledge that they barely tolerated each other.

[dense plover]

I dislike them staggering the story

It’s only 2/3 weeks but feels unnecessary

[thin warren]

I like it, so i don't feel rushed and get a bit to eat each week

[deep pawn]

They always timegate

The raid has an lfr wing each of the first 3 weeks?

[thin warren]

isn't that now all available at once? Didn't they change it?

[deep pawn]

No, it's still by wing but it's unlocking faster

[pulsar minnow]

That’s what I said

I said it’s the same artist

[subtle oar]

You wouldnt be rushed if it all came out at once.

Piecemealing the story really doesnt feel good at all

[thin warren]

well, doesn't it like give you something to look forward to? 😄 some just do everything in 2 days and they are done...

[subtle oar]

These "leaks" came out AFTER Blizz tweeted out those prop pics

And looking closer as the pics, you can tell its modified AI generated

[austere gazelle]

I wouldn't be so sure tbh

[subtle oar]

No, it actually doesnt give me anything to look forward too.

[subtle oar]

o.O

[austere gazelle]

Did you try to generate AI images in a style of World of wacraft with that kind of details ?

it could be a placeholder, waiting for the final artwork...

[subtle oar]

I dont do any AI generation, so no. But we hav3e seen countless pics by now

[pulsar minnow]

People have a very unrealistic idea of what AI art actually looks like

AI art itself has a style to it

It doesn’t exactly know how to flow from one shape into the next, or when to start/stop

It’s hard to exactly put into words

[pulsar minnow]

Even still? It’s still art we’ve never seen before

But it is in the same style of that same artist

[austere gazelle]

true, its not seen yet, I agree, but people saying its something already used are wrong, we agree

[austere gazelle]

exactly. I go to midjourney trying to do that kind of images, I got strange artefact and stuff that I didn't asked for and the character on the background are just straight out of horror movie stuff.

[pulsar minnow]

I’m someone who really likes to draw so I love to take a look at the artists at blizzard and their work

[austere gazelle]

More to the point, trying to reproduce licenced stuff like wow perfectly end up in fail, the AI can't copy exactly a thrall or a jaina

[pulsar minnow]

And each of them has a style

[subtle oar]

x3 This conversation is pretty funny and heavy cope

[austere gazelle]

We're not coping, we're saying that we can't say it's AI

[pulsar minnow]

You’re allowed to think whatever but it’s not really copium so much as we actually know what ai art looks like

[silent urchin]

the blizzcon decorations are direct copies of some pillars from inside the doti dungeon entrance. Using those for the expansion is evidence its fakee

[subtle oar]

We can say its AI.

[pulsar minnow]

But they’re not the same pillars 💀

[austere gazelle]

having the ability to say it does not make it true either

[subtle oar]

Different models produce different effects. And you can train a model in certain styles.

[ember blaze]

You’re all AI.

🤖

[austere gazelle]

Anyway, we're not ruling AI out, if you didn't notice, we say that its unlikely it could be AI based on AI stuff works ATM. but never say never. It could be someone generating some stuff in AI and photoshoping the hell out of the result to make it " wow-like" but it'd be more photoshoped than AI.

I remember we had the exact same conversation with the blue Bolvar btw.

[subtle oar]

Oh damn, you caught me. Beep boop

[subtle oar]

Its almost like I said its modified AI Generation

[austere gazelle]

But its not how AI works, it'd be more photoshoped than AI, that's all

[subtle oar]

-.-

You're playing at semantics to just be toxic

[austere gazelle]

Mirror Mirror I guess.. I give up 🤷

[subtle oar]

Another name on the block list

[austere gazelle]

Likewise.

[pulsar minnow]

No matter what happens, it'll always remain true that no matter what, people on the internet will never change their opinions because someone else on the internet told them to

why does it always devolve into this

[uncut vault]

these aren't the same pillars

[pulsar minnow]

Oh well

[austere gazelle]

Not digging more into it anyway

[uncut vault]

the pillars at Blizzcon are already in game, at the Temporal Conflux

the ones in the "leak" are just stock Titan pillars found across the game

[subtle oar]

^

[pulsar minnow]

ANYWAYS... seeing as how porters here, I'm curious what you think ab the leaks

[uncut vault]

Most recent one has actual effort instead of lazy AI """"art"""", so I commend them on that at least

https://fxtwitter.com/ObviouslyZelryn/status/1717622061714006305?s=20

this is a good breakdown of all the images though

[deep pawn]

I'm on marlamin's side if they're fake I wanna see the originals and how they made it

I mean I get her point in not wanting it to be real but her red lines are eh... At best

Since some aren't 1:1 like the dino collar

[austere gazelle]

but... it doesnt proves anything besides reused assets... And blizzard does it a lot...

[uncut vault]

For new zone previews, no they do not lol

THis isnt just screenshots of a random part of a zone, this would supposedly be the Features Trailer (which yknow, they dont do anymore lol)

[pulsar minnow]

Well I mean they did it in SL and BFA

SL had the legion unicorn in the cover image

And the BFA spiders in maldraxxus

[uncut vault]

Here are the Blizzcon pillars btw

[austere gazelle]

It'd be funny if we would be thrown in time back in the proto Azeroth era or after the fall of the Black Empire, but this time on Avaloren, with no access to the EK , and the Heretic Odyn spoke about would be just us :laugh:

[uncut vault]

All I'll say is that it's quite easy to hide clever private server edits behind a Depth of Field filter haha

[austere gazelle]

There are plenty of way to do fake , on that we agree

I'm just sceptical about the last leak fakeness, because we could just fall into a blue bolvar stuff anyway, people were sure it was fake for numerous reason with strong arguments

and in the end it was not a fake

They were dissecting the pictures and "proved" it's been edited and photoshoped, with hue recalibration and stuff xD

[deep pawn]

I think a lot of people are hoping it's fake cause 4 zones in an undiscovered island continent is less than they were hoping for

[austere gazelle]

true.
And it's easier to find hints or arguments to prove it's fake ( even if it is not ) than having argument proving its legit anyway

[deep pawn]

It has just the right flavor of "that's it" to sound right haha.

Cause us players always want more from an expac than they can give

[austere gazelle]

exactly xD
Or sometime the real leak is too dumb to be credible. I remembered Warlords of Draenor and I was like " dafuq is that plot it sounds stupid, no way it's real "

[pulsar minnow]

i wont lie I am a little worried about the themeing

because I mean we just had an expansion based a lot on titan stuff and a new facility

and if we just get that again... idk

We'll see

[deep pawn]

I was so hoping for Elune following Wood Dwarves

Earthen with beards is such a let down.

Sorry, tall Earthen

[austere gazelle]

I hope that Avaloren is all but titan shaped stuff.
Secret of Azeroth hints at a faction with order*, void, fel and whatever mixed, so Avaloren could just be a continent not forged by the titans but shaped by a lot of differents allied cosmic forces ( the Heretics Odyn spoke about ). If that's the case, I truly hope of something original and not " deja vu "

[tender vale]

is the ptr offline?

[austere gazelle]

online for me

[tender vale]

is it 1.7 or 2.0

nvm its working now

[austere gazelle]

We're talking about retail right ? xD
10.2

[tender vale]

yh

[deep pawn]

Another reason people are wary is going to the opposite side of the world to an unexplored continent at the same time as FF14 who will do a better story is a risk

[thin warren]

FF14 is just to much :p

and very boring main game and first expansions from what i hear :p you must go trough all of it to get to the endgame if i'm good informed

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly ff14 and wow stay in their own lanes

Ofc there was the whole “exodus” but that was really bc shadowlands was so incredibly dogshit

[subtle oar]

Heavensward, the first xpac, i extremely amazing

I absolutely loved Stormblood, the second xpac but not everyone does.

[thin warren]

I didn't got very far in the game

also a lot of buttons and options, it' sa bit overwhelming

[subtle oar]

FF actually does a good job teaching you what the buttons are

[thin warren]

It's a while ago :p don't recall much of it

[deep pawn]

If you only care about end game yeah it might not be for you, I for one love RPGs and 14 does it better than WoW

[thin warren]

Nono, i'm fine with the rpg, it's just a bit much

[deep pawn]

In one go or something? Cause you're basically playing 5 full length games back to back

[thin warren]

yeah ^^ no need to do it in one go ofcourse, but it's just a lot of content

[worn crown]

It is interesting to note that this "leak" is written in Brazilian Portuguese. Have we had "leaks" from other xpacs written in other languages than English?

As a side note, the grammar seems OK.

[deep pawn]

Brazil was notorious for leaks a decade ago

[worn crown]

Also this "leak" speaks of "Mares da Serpente" ("Serpent Sea" or "Sea of the Serpent", in English) and that it holds the secrets of the sea serpents and "sereianos" (something akin to "sirens" and "mermaids"/"merman" in English).

It doesn't seem terribly interesting to me 😄

[thin warren]

😄 haha

[deep pawn]

I'm enjoying all the "this is so fake stuff" If it is kudos to the modeler who made actual zone models it looks like.

[lone mantle]

Do you anticipate the revelation of the forthcoming expansion at Blizzcon, mortals?

[deep pawn]

What do you think of stone dinosaurs and storm Harpies?

[lone mantle]

In the cosmic evaluation of planetary structures, the presence of stone dinosaurs and storm harpies on Azeroth is a unique deviation from typical planetary ecosystems. These creatures demonstrate a divergence from standard evolutionary patterns, incorporating magical and elemental influences. While interesting, their existence does not alter the overall assessment of Azeroth's viability for reorigination. The planet's destiny is determined by its fundamental life forces, and the emergence of such entities, though unusual, does not significantly impact the broader cosmic framework.

[austere gazelle]

This is the kind of stuff that flag an image as AI generated

[vernal juniper]

ding

https://twitter.com/algalon_ghost/status/1717930255690723702

10.2.5

[vernal juniper]

2 1/2 hours of opening cerimony

?

usually it is 1 hour and panel just after it

[warm topaz]

there is something secret in between

100%

survival or something

[silent urchin]

Could be, although still seems early for that

might just be a gap

[novel zodiac]

Q&A AFTER the blizzcon, they're so afraid lmao

[silent urchin]

the Q&As never had any good questions and were just filled with people telling their life story before asking "Will trolls get boots"

[pulsar minnow]

My favorite blizzcon question was the Overwatch Q&A panel where this one person went up and asked which country is Reaper from when he literally has an American flag skin

The Q&As more often than not leave people more frustrated than anything, seeing dumb questions asked and not really adding anything to the whole show

[silent urchin]

Also a timing thing, I think a couple times they did it day 1 and the answer was "we have more on that tomorrow" to half the questions

[upper pasture]

Honestly tho, Q&A afterwards is great cause it won’t be snap reaction questions or stupid ones

[silent urchin]

I know a lot of people want to ask gotcha "why isn't game better" questions

[harsh mason]

There were almost never any normal questions on blizzcon. I remember these 10005000 questions about Sylvanas and who will be the final boss. There simply can't be any dumber questions

[silent urchin]

but the answer is always the same, blizz aren't deliberately making stuff people don't enjoy

[harsh mason]

No one in their right mind will ever answer questions the answer to which contains a spoiler

[novel zodiac]

then they're really good at fucking up lmao

[upper pasture]

Or it’s almost like it’s impossible to please millions of players and there will always be people who are outwardly expressing that

[pulsar minnow]

The edge… lmao

[upper pasture]

Like if blizzard was truly that bad at making games would they still be in business?

[pulsar minnow]

No because if one person doesn’t like everything then nobody can!

Granted that’s not to say something can’t be shit and people who don’t like it are like whining. Shadowlands was hot garbage

[harsh mason]

If I don't really understand, will people watch blizzcon for the sake of announcements or for the sake of stupid questions from the audience? What's happening?

[upper pasture]

Huh? Of course people watch it for announcements wdym

[warm topaz]

I feel represented with this comment in mmo-c. lmao

[harsh mason]

It's me when I see another wow drama on twitter

[warm topaz]

i saw something with mrgm and other guy

but didn't want to keep reading

[deep pawn]

There's a long post that expands on other leaks we've seen

Would you guys play tall Earthen?

[autumn dagger]

What happened w mrgm? Lol

[subtle oar]

Hmm?

[subtle oar]

@fading lintel

[fading lintel]

This looked to real

I iwsh it was real but ok

[upper pasture]

honestly I don't think it looks too real and I hope it isn't it's too bland for my liking.

not to mention that the 1 photo looks like azure span and the last photo looks like parts of OPs

[fading lintel]

Wlell i think is not real

Bc i went up in the chat and people say is not real so

[novel zodiac]

The last one looks like zuldazar

[fading lintel]

No

Only a little

[novel zodiac]

or zandalar, whatever

[upper pasture]

so i'd like a little bit more of difference than DF

[fading lintel]

Yea

[fading lintel]

Wait so is this not real @subtle oar

[deep pawn]

We won't know until next Friday

[upper pasture]

i'd like to error of the side of caution and say this likely isn't real but like Kyle said we won't REALLY know until blizzcon

[deep pawn]

I for one can totally see Odyn going "he did what?" and skedaddling and leaving behind the Thoringir

SoA would be just disappointing enough for me to believe it's real

[upper pasture]

SoA?

[deep pawn]

The long detailed post that introduced Greyveil Glade.

[upper pasture]

see you are looking at "this post has to be real because this post is fake" when really they are all likely to be fake

sure one might be close to the next topic in WoW but like none of if is real at this point until friday

[dense plover]

^^^^

[deep pawn]

We have presumably two independent people that just happen to leak the same Agg'ora and the second one didn't even realize they had it looks.

And now a third source having same info and expanding further.

I'm definitely leaning towards the 4 photos being right at this point

[upper pasture]

sources being random people on the internet?

[tepid fiber]

It's all a psyop anyway

[deep pawn]

That's what all leaks are unless blizzard leaks stuff on their site

Remember people swearing the dragon flight logo on the desk with the Alex artwork had to be fake cause who prints out that many copies on their desk?

[upper pasture]

if those photos are from the new zones and those are the types of enemies we are fighting consider me uninterested unless there's some sort of guild hall/ player housing feature. i don't really feel like playing WoW with classic enemy types and such

all these leaks are just people trying to get clout anyways. how many leaks are just nothing come the actual release?

[deep pawn]

A sub flight of green dragons that are mothlike is the most interesting to me but even that'd just be a reskin of the new faerie dragons we're getting this patch

[upper pasture]

AND if i had the time to actual prove people wrong i could make a mockup of the NEXT NEXT NEXT expansion if i really wanted to

[subtle oar]

Take a look at the link to the twitter thread taking apart every image

Its an elaborate fake

[deep pawn]

As much as I want a drastic change in direction from blizzard they don't respond to feedback that fast. 11.0 would have been finalized a year ago before reaction to Dragonflight became knowable

[upper pasture]

i'm gonna say it's a safe bet to assume there will be a tad bit more of void in the next expansion since DF has literally been setting it up since the beginning

[deep pawn]

But not a void zone. The devs said they don't like those.

I'd expect the same void as we got in BfA

[upper pasture]

yes but none of these "leaks" even mention Iridikron or anything void related dispite that we've been teased with so much during DF you just KNOW it's going to be at the forefront of the next expansion

AND at this point it's almost guaranteed that rockdaddy is making it to 11.0

unless he gets killed off by whoever that was in the void portal but that would just be a waste by blizz if they wrote that into the story

[deep pawn]

Eh? The newest one literally says Odyn chases Iridikron to Avaloren and we stop Odyn first then Iridikron

[upper pasture]

Why would we fight Odyn before dealing with Iridikron. That makes no sense. Sure Odyn isn’t the greatest ally of ours but he STILL is our ally. Maybe that will change during the supposed conflict in 11.0 but to outright say that in the setup story is sussy

Seems like poor writing and not something I’d believe blizzard would do considering how they’ve handle spoilers in DF

[deep pawn]

Unless Odyn plans on reoriginating Avaloren.

It's a continent he basically tried to hide all existence of after all

[upper pasture]

But that still doesn’t take place until after the events of launch

So he’d still be considered an ally not an enemy that needs to be stopped

[deep pawn]

You think we'd let him wipe an entire continent off just as a preventative to hide Titan mistakes?

[upper pasture]

For it to be the flavor text for launch especially for a leak makes zero sense

[deep pawn]

Remember we're kinda going to fight him soon that leads to him letting the Thoringir free

[upper pasture]

Are we tho? Or is that something people are just dreaming up

[deep pawn]

We redo the dungeon, he starts his spiel, Vyranoth then chews him out, then there's a cutscene no one has seen

[upper pasture]

Sounds like fanfic honestly

[deep pawn]

It's in the ptr right now to test

[upper pasture]

Eh?

[deep pawn]

Before the scenario you get to say you know Odyn and have been waiting to punch him

[pulsar minnow]

Vyranoth literally storms into the halls of valor freeing the Thorignir and confronting Odyn

Odyn throws a tantrum because all the dragons just rebelled on him and left

[deep pawn]

We don't know if he left yet.

After the cutscene starts we just get sent back to the dream with the storm drakes

That'd be mean if he made and bred storm drakes just to reach Avaloren across the sea of storms

[pulsar minnow]

The dragons left

Not Odyn

[upper pasture]

Ah, that’s what your speaking about, that’s kinda a stretch honestly. He’s had these dragons for a millennia and he’s never gone over there before. Why would he now?

[deep pawn]

Iridikron has the void soul a

[upper pasture]

And? I thought he just wanted to reorder over there

[deep pawn]

Odyn knows what's in Avaloren, he sent failed expedition after failed expedition after the Titans left and the heretics formed.

He then abandoned the prime designate position after the Aspects were empowered and created the Thoringir in secret

I'm speculating that Odyn is enough of a hot head to reoriginate a continent rather than risk Iridikron using the void soul to do whatever he plans to

[upper pasture]

Still doesn’t change the fact that that is likely to be a development in the story of this 11.0 and not the main hook

[deep pawn]

Blizzard has said they want the end of DF to lead directly into 11.0

[upper pasture]

The main hook being we’re going to this new place to stop Iridikron and his plans with the void object WITH our ally Odyn

[deep pawn]

Tyr awaking is the finale of 10.2 and we have 10.2.5 to lead into whatever's next

[upper pasture]

Then during 11.0 or 11.1 we find out Odyn will really do anything and wants to force convert living beings then all that would unfold

[deep pawn]

I can totally see Odyn learning about the void soul and seeing us awaken Tyr and him saying "enough, I'm ending all this farce now"

He barely agreed to help us defeat is own damn eye after all.

You know that thing he gave the jailer cause he's an idiot

[fiery island]

It's a machinima artist breaking down a bunch of points that aren't really that crazy. His main thing is they reused assets....Blizzard does that all the time. Leak might still be legit

I still think Avaloren society is gonna be what prepares us for an eventual fight with void. We'd be fighting them blind if we fought right now. We need to learn Void from a non-Titan perspective.

[silent urchin]

reused assets are common. Feature reveals that are a bunch of existing assets kinda lazily posed, not so much

[deep pawn]

Unless the fact this expansion is only 18 months after the last one has the artists in a massive crunch

[thin warren]

Oh, that would be nice to have it june 2024

[deep pawn]

If 10.2 lasts as long as 9.2 did prepatch would be in July

[thin warren]

coolcool

[dense plover]

except that the art team is enormous now

no way they have art problems

[thin warren]

I should read the chronicle-books, seems very interesting

[deep pawn]

I keep hearing this and nothing shows it so far

[dense plover]

wut

not the amount of custom stuff we have art for?

im pretty sure DF has more unique armor sets than any recent expac

[deep pawn]

Are you including trading post in that?

[pulsar minnow]

I mean we have the same amount of tier sets as usual

[deep pawn]

If the larger art team is only going towards tier armor, hoo boy

[dense plover]

its everything

zone art, spell effects, armor models - yes that includes trading post unique stuff, mounts and other cosmetics too

i dont know how you can see it doesnt show

dragonflight has extremely varied art

[deep pawn]

In terms of earnable form content, 10.1 had the exact same amount of armor as 9.2 plus adding Dracthyr. 10.0 had tier that 9.0 didn't have but it did have 8 non covenant sets, 4 sets per covenant, and the 4 raid sets.

[dense plover]

10.X had zaralek AND emerald dream, meanwhile 9.X had the chains area which had nearly no new assets and zereth mortis which was i think, equivalent to emerald dream in art

[deep pawn]

Dreamsurges use the pvp armor color from 10.1, what?

Like I can buy they doubled the art team to perhaps try to reduce crunch on specific artists, but it's not doubling output that's for sure.

Won't stop me from calling the class sets in the trading post as lazy as well.

Those suckers are the most disappointing thing ever.

Maybe I'm off base but I feel like artwork should be focusing more on things that will last longer. Zones that are useable for a couple months then dead is becoming a waste of dev time.

Zaralek is cool, sure, but not at the cost of the rest of the isles being effectively abandoned. Dreamsurges try to help with that but too late honestly and the rewards just aren't good enough

[dense plover]

"I want a world revamp, so them doing art elsewhere isnt equivalent" sorta makes your argument more an opinionated look at what you want from the game

[deep pawn]

You said the art team is enormous now, I'm saying that isn't showing yet and I've been hearing "the team is expanding!" since WoD/Legion I'm pretty sure

Largest team ever is on track to produce the smallest amount of high end pve content ever.

And the content they do produce is effectively disposable foam waste after a few weeks

I'd wager I could go see people more people doing Bozja, content almost 2 years old in 14 than I can killing Zaralek rares.

It's definitely a tangent but man I'd kill to see them actually work on content that is evergreen beyond transient zones. Especially when they only delivered a single extra dungeon this expansion

My stance is dreamsurges needed to award one piece of 441+ gear a week given it came in so late into the season

[dense plover]

bozja is fucking dead

idk what server youre on but im on sargatanas and its fucking dead

only people doing it are farming the relic

because its a PITA

[deep pawn]

On my server it was more active than a Zaralek rare that's for sure

[subtle oar]

Zaralek is 100000% dead compared to Bozja

[deep pawn]

DF has so much promise but it all feels like fog that burns away in an hour and you're left with emptiness.

[dense plover]

idk, feels about the same to me

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i think bozja being instanced FORCES players together

vs zaralek which doesnt

[deep pawn]

Zaralek has the same sharding system everything else in WoW has that's supposed to condense players down to make the world feel alive

And in 14 Bozja is by data center so for NA alone there's 3 groups vs the entire NA region for WoW

If it's a failure of the sharding system that's still a problem

[vernal juniper]

what are the dragon factions coming in emerald dream? stromdrake and?

[deep pawn]

Netherdrakes

[uncut lintel]

can we get those dragon types as dracthyr customizations

or is that too big of a dream

[sleek solar]

Primalist customizations for Dracthyr pls

Void stuff too pls

[harsh mason]

Demon customisation for dracthyrs pls

[sleek solar]

Haha yess fel corruption

[novel zodiac]

what about no lol, dracthyr already have more customizations that all the other races combined

[pulsar minnow]

Just because one race has a lot of customization doesn’t mean they can’t get more, or that them getting more means others can’t

[novel zodiac]

well yeah, it would be cool to get more customization for everyone just like in SL

but i think that dracthyr shouldn't be the priority

if that happens

[rain cave]

why would the dracthyr get primalist or demon customisation

if you want to play a demon manari and demon hunters exist 👍

orcs have fel corruption as well

[pulsar minnow]

I think a full transformation Dracthyr form that looks like Sarkareth’s boss fight form would be fine tbh

[rain cave]

so you just want buffer dracthyr?

[upper pasture]

Oh boy here we go again

[pulsar minnow]

Some people do, so an option wouldn’t hurt

I mean- look if Druids got werebears and whatnot, why the hell not put in a full transformation

Dracthyr form is basically like a Druid form anyways imo

Make it like a mage tower reward or smth

[rain cave]

no the visage form is

the visage form is the druid form equivalent

[pulsar minnow]

You don’t use visage form in combat??

[rain cave]

didn't say you did

just saying dracthyr aren't visages transforming into dracthyr

[pulsar minnow]

That’s what Druids do with their forms

[rain cave]

they're dracthyr transforming into visages

[upper pasture]

Buff Dracthyr don’t make sense

[pulsar minnow]

Even still who’s to say my dracthyr form is ____. If I can change my night elf to undead at the barber I don’t see why not

It’d make the class more appealing at least 🤷‍♂️

[rain cave]

it's a race

;p

[pulsar minnow]

It’s a race and a class at the current moment but sure

[upper pasture]

But the model you speak about makes even less sense since it’s literally a void infused Dracthyr and why would we have those running around?

[pulsar minnow]

Well it doesn’t have to be void infused

[rain cave]

I do think we've had an influx of people who just want empty "looks cool" stuff rather than compelling and thought through content with soul

this isn't a dig at anyone in particular, it's a larger thing online that's been kind of dug up by the whole AI debate which has even gotten in here from the fake leaks

[upper pasture]

Refer to my first statement, buff Dracthyr don’t make sense

[pulsar minnow]

So a dracthyr can’t hit the gym

Or have any sort of variance in body composition

[rain cave]

they have more variance in body composition than literally every other race

[pulsar minnow]

We got three different human models

[rain cave]

because they literally have an option for it

[upper pasture]

They don’t need to, dragons are deceptively stronger than they look that’s sorta the appeal

[pulsar minnow]

And there’s a large portion that think they look goofy as hell

I’m not one of them, I play a Dracthyr

[rain cave]

buff dracthyr also overlap with the bulky drakonids too much imo

[pulsar minnow]

I like the class and the race

[upper pasture]

And they do have different options just not dramatic enough for some people

[rain cave]

I'd like a drakonid playable race but I doubt we'd get it soon

just doesn't feel like they're in the position to do that + overlaps with dracthyr

[pulsar minnow]

That’s kinda the point. Just add one transformation and call it a day. No more complaints about it

[fiery island]

FFS let me put some muscle on them. Most twink, deviantart dragons they could muster

[rain cave]

just add one more option that includes having to do a rough shoulder rescaling pass again for everything

yeah...

it's not simple to just "add another option"

[upper pasture]

Yeah man to hell with what the devs want just add the option and call it a day

[rain cave]

especially in a 20 year old engine

[fiery island]

Honestly the Drac'thyr are insulting when you have Drakonid like literally right there

[pulsar minnow]

Full transformation.

[upper pasture]

Dracthyr weren’t designed to be big bulky dragons

[pulsar minnow]

It means no other options available just that form with its presets

[rain cave]

they designed all the textures to work accross the body types we already have, if they wanted to add another they'd either have to do different textures that already multiplies the workload or redo those base textures to fit this new model which also multiplies workload

[fiery island]

But not allowing for a masculine customization excluded a huge amount of people

[pulsar minnow]

The big problem I’m having with Dracthyr is that in order for them to look “fine” you basically gotta take off all the armor because their armor is proportioned out weird

[rain cave]

it's not as simple as sending in someone to make a new shape key for the body and slapping it in

[rain cave]

there is a bulky dracthyr

it's just bulky FOR THEM

different races have different body types

[fiery island]

That bulky dracthyr is nothing compared to what people are wanting

[upper pasture]

And that’s fine

[rain cave]

never seen anyone complain about wanting big buff blood elves with muscles bulging at the seams

[fiery island]

Blood elves don't have a customization for how bulky they are, Drac'thyr do

[pulsar minnow]

Because they’re already a decent body build

[rain cave]

I know people want more customisation, and in an ideal world sure, every race would have more body customisation

[fiery island]

Blood elves are also arguably buffer than the highest Drac'thyr settinng lol

[pulsar minnow]

Like it’s the same reason why people don’t really play male nightborne. Obviously not as severe

[rain cave]

but to limit the argument to just dracthyr is kind of facetious

[rain cave]

literally aren't

they're pretty shredded sure, but they're incredibly lean

and slight

not much muscle mass

dracthyr can be pretty buff at body type 4

it's just because of their wing proportions it makes them look skinnier imo

I think dracthyr rival draenei with their shoulders when at body type 4

[fiery island]

There's a fair number of people who want to build Drac'thyr that are built like Drakonid, and the fact we fight a boss that's built like that but they couldn't muster the time to rig up a PC skeleton to facilitate that is a miss

[fiery island]

Negative

[pulsar minnow]

Well a big problem not really touched on with many’s complaints on Dracthyr is the armor options

[rain cave]

then what people want is more body types for all races, or a drakonid race

[pulsar minnow]

It’s really annoying having to fight with the transmog to make them look okay

[upper pasture]

LOL he was only like that because he was Void infused. wdym.

[rain cave]

also boss models are not the same as PC models

we are modular, they are not

it's a lot easier to make a one and done model

[fiery island]

Clearly my comment encompassed an understanding of this

[rain cave]

how many rigs you done in your life

how much high poly to low poly sculpting and baking

[upper pasture]

and Dracthyr doesn't not equal Drakonid. Dracthyr were designed to be a numble fighting force that had the strengths of the aspects

[rain cave]

animation

weight painting

etc

[fiery island]

I am not a multi-hundred man dev team

[fiery island]

Some people wanted them to be closer, or at least have the option to customize that way

[rain cave]

correct

and neither is anyone working at blizzard

[fiery island]

Dawg the WoW dev team is up to what, 700+ people?

[rain cave]

yeah 700 individual people

[upper pasture]

and we got more because of feedback. just because yall didn't get the huge muscle daddies yall wanted you're acting like it's a loss

[rain cave]

just because number big doesn't mean they're a fucking hivemind lmao

you have any idea how hard it is to organize game development with just 3 other people?

[pulsar minnow]

I just think it’d be cool to have the option 🤷‍♂️ I don’t see why not

[rain cave]

a lot of things would be cool to have as an option

[pulsar minnow]

Throw it in there for those who want it as some sort of challenge form

[upper pasture]

because it doesn't make sense

[fiery island]

It's a fundamental miss for a swathe of the community and it makes people feel ignored or not cared about

[rain cave]

but it's not a matter of "just throw it in"

[fiery island]

Nobody is saying just throw it in dude

[pulsar minnow]

The semantics are crazy

[upper pasture]

the only dracthyr we've seen like that is the one who fell to the void. like why would all of a sudden we just UNLOCKED VOID FORM DRACTHRY

[fiery island]

They're stating they wish there would've been some time spent cooking them up a bit longer to provide the option that fits a fantasy some people would really want

[pulsar minnow]

Obv it’s not that simple but they’ve done stuff like the werebear in the past

Hell we have a fucking Fel Werebear form for Druids

[rain cave]

but the feedback was only present after beta/PTR went up

or whenever it was available

[pulsar minnow]

Yes I’m using that loosely. Obviously it takes time but doing one single form isn’t exactly the most difficult thing in the world especially when they already have Sarkareths boss model rigged

[rain cave]

if they'd planned them to be bulky, maybe they'd have already had a bulky body in there. They DID try to adjust and add a 4th body type option

[fiery island]

If they weren't so disconnected from their community in their little SoCal bubble they wouldn't have needed the feedback to realize this would be an ask from the community

[upper pasture]

yeah and the idk 1000s of mogs they'd have to make sure worked correctly too

[pulsar minnow]

I’ve already said it before

But I’ll say it again

Full transformation

No transmogs show up just the form

[upper pasture]

that will go over well too i'd bet

[pulsar minnow]

If people want their armor - they have the old form

[rain cave]

"can't believe blizz are REMOVING transmog from new forms!"

[pulsar minnow]

If they want buff - they got this one

[upper pasture]

"BUT I WANT ARMOR AND BE BUFF WTF BLIZZARD"

[pulsar minnow]

Well you can’t appeal to every small facet of the community. But appealing to two big ones is fine

[upper pasture]

like it doesn't take much for the community to cry about new things being added especially if it's taking away from something else

[pulsar minnow]

It’s a middle point that meets them halfway

[rain cave]

the thing is you assume that they DIDN'T discuss buff models internally before going live

[upper pasture]

that's why we got buffer models after feedback. they appealed to some but not all people

[rain cave]

they tried to give them more buff as lehr says yes

[upper pasture]

sorry for the bodybuilders who wanted to look like a buff AF dracthyr

[rain cave]

if you want body building dragon, then pray they add drakonids some day

people have been wanting that since vanilla just join the queue lmao

[fiery island]

I've seen footage of these people, it's not much of an assumption they don't value things that people who are fans of classic, hypermasculine fantasy might ask for

[pulsar minnow]

People have been wanting high elves since vanilla

Wanna know what blizz did

Met them halfway

[fiery island]

And that's my point, inclusion of one subculture came at the exclusion of another

[upper pasture]

....

[rain cave]

the hypermasculine urge to play a night elf priestess and frolick in a giant tree

[fiery island]

HELL YEA BRODIR

[rain cave]

or play a goofy little gnome engineer who has a robotic squirell

[fiery island]

These are bad faith arguments and you know it, don't act like there hasn't been a decline in that vibe from the game, ESPECIALLY in DF

SL too

[upper pasture]

or play within the current lore of the game or idk find a game where you CAN play out those fantasies.

LOL

DF has been quite the opposite of SL wdym

[rain cave]

just because the game has changed its storytelling methods, and story doesn't mean it's less hypermasculine

all the things that WERE hypermasculine are still in the game, and they always add cool edgy armor

like I get what you're trying to say dwarf

but

I think that it's a bad faith point

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t see why we can’t have both sides of everything. WoW’s always been a game defined by the “rule of cool” if people want cool things in this game. We can have hypermasculine orcs and that bullshit and still have idk, Vulpera in the same game. It works. It’s cool and it appeals to those parties

[rain cave]

because both sides of everything is not very resource efficient

[upper pasture]

they are moving away from the hypermasculine story telling because that type of stuff breeds bad behavior AND with the lawsuit ongoing it seems like nothing they could do was "right"

[pulsar minnow]

Yes but we’re blowing this issue out of proportion when it’s literally “yo what if evokers got a werebear form equivalent”

[rain cave]

but really the whole weird masculine thing is really a matter of perspective

[fiery island]

Most games, media, etc that have been havens for just that have had their shit flipped upside down in the last 5-10 years and you're speaking in bad faith if you can't recognize that the pockets of media that allowed for that have been dwindling harshly

[rain cave]

because every xpac can be framed as epic and cool and OOO MUSCLE MANLY

[upper pasture]

AND it's 2023 don't you think we've had enough of the cis male saves the day?

[pulsar minnow]

Nobody is saying that- you’re making this into another conversation

[fiery island]

Not all of us choose to view it in such a harsh light dude, sorry for whoever hurt you

[upper pasture]

are you high?

LOL

[rain cave]

I don't care about any of the identity politics, so both sides of the argument are nonsensical to me

my point is simply that whilst times have changed sure. To complain that they're sapping 'hyper masculine' whatever away from the game is kind of crazy

[upper pasture]

let blizzard tell storys either you like them and you enjoy the game or you don't care for the story and you enjoy the game. OR just don't play the game.

[rain cave]

like could describe dragonflight as an epic adventure of rexploring a long forgotten island with DRAGONS and epic powers and elemental storms with a big bad boomy voice antagonist

which is

pretty classic fantasy?

[upper pasture]

i know quite a few people who literally have zero clue what's going on in the story cause they just want to play the game and don't read a damn thing

[rain cave]

honestly partly me

I try to keep up

but unlocking campaign chapters behind renown is a pain

I don't like doing renown I just want to get on and play

[upper pasture]

the little chapters that are locked behind renown are so meh anyways tho.

[pulsar minnow]

I agree with you on that. I think people are pointing their finger at the wrong issue. Dragonflight isnt a lack of “hypermasculine bs” it’s a lack of “urgency and big moments”

[upper pasture]

nothing huge is locked behind renown iirc

[fiery island]

I have been a huge lore nerd since TBC, I have shelves full of Warcraft books, I'm not gonna just ignore the story because you think I just need to "butt out" if I have criticisms

[rain cave]

yeah I discussed this before

we're missing cool character moments atm

[pulsar minnow]

And the cool characters we have aren’t really doing anything cool unfortunately

[fiery island]

Lol literally the quest to understand how Amirdrassil got into the Dragon Isles is locked behind Renown, and level 20 iirc

[upper pasture]

DF is the supposed laying the seeds for the future.

[pulsar minnow]

Alex, Kalec, Noz are just standing around talking

[rain cave]

we get hints of it right, like they're doing phenomenal animation and great characterization within little conversation bits

like fyrakk scratching the wall, emoting, etc

[fiery island]

You put it better than I did

[pulsar minnow]

We have plenty of badass characters in the game right now. The aspects are among them

We know what they can do but they haven’t done anything really

We need to see their powers in action again

[fiery island]

When watching some content regarding the recent story interview I realized that even the 10.1.5 epilogue cinematic could've had ONE minor improvement

[rain cave]

but we AREN'T getting those "I only see darkness before me" or sargeras stabbing planets, wrathgates, etc

[pulsar minnow]

Instead we’re getting “hey Alexstrasza my future sight isn’t working I’m sad”

(It never works anyways but)

[upper pasture]

but that's also on the community too. too many big moments we get "god all this world ending BS is just so boring can't we just like grow some gardens or something"

[pulsar minnow]

YES

I remember people like bellular and company begging for a “break” expansion

[fiery island]

When Noz says "fiery clouds" or whatever, they could've had Alex have a flash in her eyes, cut to Fyrakk wreathed in Shadowflame, cut to Amirdrassil being planted, then back to Alex and she screams "HE'S GOING FOR THE TREE! ALERT MERITHRA AND THE GREENS, WE FIGHT TO SAVE AMIRDRASSIL!"

[upper pasture]

and here we are a not as intense world ending expansion and yet we have people crying that nothing is going on

[rain cave]

that's a bit cheesy

tbf

[fiery island]

boom. you just created urgency AND you explained how Alex knew instead of just telling the community "oh well this is how she knew" in some interview later

[rain cave]

but the patch teasing cinematics have actually tended to be pretty good

like.. better than the raid end cinematics

[fiery island]

Make the dialogue less cheesy, the point being is they never properly explained how Alex knew Fyrakk was gonna go for the tree

[rain cave]

because he told us?

[pulsar minnow]

Also I might be a bit off center when I say this but Iridikron isn’t really that scary yet

[fiery island]

Where in game, before 10.1.7, did he tell us that?

[upper pasture]

DF has created enemies inside itself that we are currently dealing with while ALSO planting seeds for the future.

[rain cave]

he told us in 10.1.7

[upper pasture]

he told the that one green dragon no?

[rain cave]

yes

and I don't remember alex saying he was going for the tree before that

[fiery island]

I asked before 10.1.7, because after 10.1.5, there was zero urgency

Just a big group hug post-DoTI

[pulsar minnow]

It was like “okay so Iridikron is gone.. what now.”

[fiery island]

I guess we just hang out and talk about feelings until shit hits the fan

[rain cave]

10.1.5 was the infinite story bit

[fiery island]

No trying to make moves to figure out the enemies intentions ahead of time

no scouting

no espionage

nothing

[rain cave]

would be weird to tag on a "fyrakk is going for the tree!" bit at the end, only to then follow it up with 10.1.7 where we get a "fyrakk is going for the tree!" bit

[fiery island]

Noz made a cryptic statement that alluded to the tree

in that cinematic

and 10.1.7 could've shown what it did and it would've still worked.

"Alright team, we figured out he's going for the tree, our intel shows he's working with Druids of the Flame in Ohn'aran plains to open up a portal, let's head over"
10.1.7 scenario begins

[upper pasture]

you mean, taking a break after dealing with sark and their sundered flame and the black flight choosing their next leader? the fact that Noz has come to terms (somewhat) that maybe not all of the infities aren't as bad as he thought. the aspects ALSO pieces together the tyr stuff.

[fiery island]

It's this feeling like the threats are just major background and not threatening at all until its time to pull them out of the hat

[pulsar minnow]

I’ve told yall the ending I “want” for DF but im just gonna say it again. We should have fyrakk burn the tree successfully. Have nozdormu turn back the clock and break the timeline to do smth different - showing a great shift in his character because he won’t let another tree burn. Have some battle follow in a cinematic. Watch Iridikron return and still get something he wanted, we try and stop him before he leaves but he does something bad - I don’t know I’m just throwing stuff at the wall. But you get the idea. Something that isn’t “hurray he’s dead and vaguely hints at the future while he dies”

[fiery island]

In WotLK, Arthas was looming from Borean Tundra all the way to Icecrown

[upper pasture]

pretty sure it's gonna be "save tree, fyrakk dead. aspects empowered but Iridikron shows up and possible reveal whoever was aiding him. aspects are empowered but seemingly outmatched by new threat"

i'd like more Noz screentime but i feel like we've gotten a little spoiled with the whole DotI so likely not

also pretty sure Iridikron has left the primalists to whatever ends they'd like to do now which is why Vyn has swapped to us seeing that she's been abandoned by one brother and the other has gone completely insane and fights to just fight her moral compass is conflicted

(he's gotten everything he supposedly needed)

[austere gazelle]

Anyway we got black, blue, bronze dragonflight storyline.

The green and the red will play in amirdrassil

[uncut lintel]

< . <

why are all the tree names so hard to spell

[rain cave]

try break it down to the naming convention to remember em

amir = sleep, drassil = like the tree from norse mythology

[uncut lintel]

makes sense

why didnt they just move to the tree in mount hyjal

what was wrong with that tree

isnt it big too

[rain cave]

I imagine the logistics of that would be quite intensive

isn't the hyjal tree a husk also xD, jokes aside

[deep pawn]

Wanna know the game that made me feel the most masc and "big hero energy?" FF14

[pulsar minnow]

I’m gonna be real I fucking love final fantasy but ff14 I just can’t get into

FF7 ofc is a classic but more recently FF16 was GLORIOUS

[rain cave]

I can't take anything final fantasy seriously

[pulsar minnow]

But then I try ff14 and I just don’t like the vibe of it at all

[rain cave]

final fantasys story/lore is a mess

[pulsar minnow]

FF15 is only good to laugh at

[upper pasture]

FF14 is such a slog to get through to get to the end. Is my only real complaint honestly

[rain cave]

I think the artstyle hasn't aged well

it felt noticeably dated when i tried it

had to double check I wasn't playing the other Final fantasy MMO that was older

[upper pasture]

I also think that the color palette is gorgeous in some areas and quite bland in others

[rain cave]

also none of the classes felt interesting to me

too general/ vague

and apparently there's no specs?

or talents

I'm not sure

didn't play much

[fiery island]

It's too bad it's illustrious community is so unwelcoming to anybody that doesn't think and feel like them.

[rain cave]

just like wow

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/518767109346558002.webp?size=48&name=Omegalul&quality=lossless

and pretty much every other MMO

[upper pasture]

FF? Huh, I experienced quite the opposite. Everyone was so welcoming and helpful

Sure you’ll find those people in any game tho

[pulsar minnow]

I think the big holdup with WoW v Final fantasy is that I’m just so engaged and attached to the character and world of wow that I don’t really have any desire to pour my time into another mmo

[rain cave]

very curious to see what riot are cooking

[fiery island]

I played quite a bit, did savage raiding for a while. Could not find a single pocket of people where I could be enough of myself to not feel stifled. Nobody likes gym bros

[rain cave]

I hope it's artifact based like a more classic wow/ RPG experience

where you have unique items that you can find

e.g. you go searching for duskblade so your rogue character can unlock a cool build synergy

[fiery island]

Facial hair customization was seriously lacking too, I did love my Highlander warrior tho

And the story was pretty good, Endwalker got a little wild tho

[rain cave]

I didn't even think final fantasy had an actual story

always viewed it as like a pokemon games story

present but barely most of the time

[pulsar minnow]

Ehhh depends on the final fantasy

I think it could be argued ff7 remake and ff16 are more story heavy

[fiery island]

FFXVI fucks with boots on

[rain cave]

I'm waiting for 16 to be fully released to see if I'm interested in it

[pulsar minnow]

God the fucking opening was so good

[fiery island]

What do you mean? It's been had been released

[rain cave]

not on PC though

still in early access only on PS5

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1028683741373141084.webp?size=48&name=lolF_risitasomegakekw&quality=lossless

[upper pasture]

ah i see

[deep pawn]

I'm a gym goer and I get along just fine. Now if you are looking for "locker room behavior" well that's disappearing world wide for good reason.

[fiery island]

I'm not looking for "locker room behavior", I'm just looking for an environment where I have to filter myself to a ridiculous degree. To the point you can't even openly discuss lifting weights, child rearing, other life shit with a social group because it's considered "problematic". Probably just didn't look hard enough but dude I'm not some turbo frat guy I'm just a dude with a beard with likes deadlifts and mead

[harsh mason]

Well, he's not the only one, Dezran partially got infected with it too (his eyes changed color to the same as Sarkareth's). But to make full-fledged void dracthyrs because of this, thereby killing the uniqueness of Sarkareth is nonsense

[fiery island]

I get that it might be a bit unrealistic to expect that overlap but nevertheless it's frustrating to feel alienated. It's like when I go to a midnight release for a Kingdom Hearts game. I feel like I don't belong in my own fan bases

[upper pasture]

the problem there is YOU feel like YOU don't belong. no one is alienating you except yourself.

[deep pawn]

I have not seen any communities that would have any issues with those topics unless the way you talk about them can be abrasive. Like Drak from NEST talks about his kids a lot and you can often hear them behind him. There's definitely fitness people that play 14 too.

Now I could definitely see an issue if the people are too young to care about stuff like that

An average 18-22 year old won't be able to relate much to parenthood

[fiery island]

What a characteriscally dismissive comment from you

[upper pasture]

right, i can see how you'd find it hard to make friends

[fiery island]

Ditto dude

[upper pasture]

except I really don't have an issue making friends so....i don't see how'd you get to that point but go off dude

[fiery island]

❤️

[upper pasture]

yeah anyways.

[fiery island]

Honestly it's probably just something along this line. I'm in a weird spot. Most dudes in my position in life have left MMO gaming behind due to life progression. Appreciate you lending a friendly ear bro, despite any disagreements we may have had 💪

[deep pawn]

I'm 36 and I'm never going to have kids, but I definitely know the feeling of being internet ancient

[upper pasture]

did his eyes change? oh he did seem to lose his eyesight. did they even mention that?

[rain cave]

I'm only 23 and the difference between me and the current 1st years of uni is astonishing

but then again

I am in game dev atm

so it's kind of to be expected

but all the other masters students are more like me

[harsh mason]

No, but it happened after he was almost killed by "Echo of Neltharion" (Nraqi)

[upper pasture]

yeah, i figured that's when it happened but they didn't even mention anything afterwards. even in the post raid scenes with him. just odd, if i became blinded/ had altered sight i'd might mention it to my friends

[harsh mason]

But in any case, this is not the same thing that happened with Sarkareth. As such, void dracthyrs does not exist. There is another escaped experiment, but it is one. So such costuming will be very superfluous.

[upper pasture]

oh i agree.

also i assume you're talking about that one dracthyr tied ot that achievement since he's.....just out there infused with those powers.

nutryl or whatever his name was

[molten niche]

have they annouced how to get the lego axe

[deep pawn]

No

[subtle oar]

They stated they will not be saying how to get it, that it will be up to the community to learn how

[molten niche]

god i hope its not a fucking drop off the last stupid boss like the evoker one. i have ran it so many time son heroic and still nothing

[rain cave]

could be cool if it's a combined reference to shadowmourne and sulfuras

[subtle oar]

Its almost like a Leggo is supposed to be extremely rare and not everyone will be able to get it

[rain cave]

where he drops a reagent for it, and you have to craft a uninfused axe, then go back to doing stuff from zaralek and other places to get more reagents

[upper pasture]

they've said that they don't want to do that.

[molten niche]

considering they made the drop supposed to be forgiven and increase chances to drop every time u kill him on heroic and it doesnt drop and yet it still doesnt drop.

[upper pasture]

but HOW to get the axe they haven't said. so likely we will see how to get it on the 7th

[molten niche]

more thna likely the 14th when raid opens

[upper pasture]

naw once patch is live people will eat through the code and we will get an idea

[subtle oar]

I still think it was quite fair for how powerful the Leggo was for Dracs

[deep pawn]

Odds are the quest will start from Fyrakk still after the first mythic kill per region, be a 100% drop, but be a longer timegated quest.

There's absolutely no way they'll let this weapon affect the RWF just like the evoker one didn't

[upper pasture]

Maybe, I hope it’s more of the shadowmoure questline and we are building it and empowering it and the last step to complete it involves killing fyrakk

Not starting it at the end of the raid.

Like maybe Ingra drops the ingot and we start building it from there or something

[molten niche]

rwf?

[deep pawn]

Race to world first

[molten niche]

ahh gotcha

[silent urchin]

iirc they said it should be more consistent than evoker lego. Sounded almost like it was a collect X boss guaranteed boss drops sort of thing

[deep pawn]

I'd still wager on it not unlocking until the first mythic kill

[silent urchin]

Maybe. That's probably less than a week though

[deep pawn]

Depends on tuning and how fast guilds can gear

[silent urchin]

oh true I guess there is the bigger jump

probably less than two weeks anyway

[deep pawn]

I'm on 8 days myself to not interfere with Thanksgiving

[novel zodiac]

Do you guys think its normal that we got like 10 "leaks" in a week and after that 4 screenshots one they all stoped?

[deep pawn]

It's a weekend

[novel zodiac]

oh yeah, leakers dont work on weekends

[thin warren]

😄

[novel zodiac]

just saying, im kinda anxious, i dont want that 4 screenshots one to be real

so im just waiting for a nother big leak to happen

[thin warren]

Why? it seems not fun to you?

[novel zodiac]

its because all of the reused assets

seems like a lazy move

so if they're lazy about new zones, what can you expect from anything else?

[thin warren]

it's just a teaser ofcourse, maybe there is a lot more

[novel zodiac]

i hope

[thin warren]

In less then a week, we know!

[novel zodiac]

i want real content, kinda tired of "go here, kill a rare, go to the next one and repeat"

[thin warren]

I just want to explore a new continent, hehe :p i'm easly content

[deep pawn]

Reason I meant weekends is if it's media stuff, those types may not be in office on weekends as much.

[subtle oar]

This will never go away and should never

[novel zodiac]

yeah, not what i want either, i want SOMETHING else

like torghast, mage tower, horrific visions

we had nothing like that in DF

ill even take the brawlers guild

[austere gazelle]

They do this all the time though...
Everything in the game is reused assets with new texture applied on it, very few stuff are actual new models

[harsh mason]

Only if by lore it will be a copy of the axe. But it seems to me that we will clear the axe from SF

I'm more interested in what kind of ability the axe will have. Most likely the same as in the hands of Fyrakk (open portals in ED and FL)

[last sphinx]

When was the last time they created new skeleton model? I think it was Azshara during BFA. The Devs have become lazy since Legion and have lost their muse to create something unique, new and creative, so much talk for reinventing themselves. I still can't comprehend how they went with the fleshed out Zovaal 😑

[molten niche]

they need to bring back something to grind i know ppl hated artifact power but it was something to grind for i honestly didnt mind it just make it account wide so non of ur alts get left behind and it will be perfect.

df had nothing to do besides farm stupid rep and the bonus rep on ur alts was a waste of time. they need to make rep account wide

[vernal juniper]

uhm

a leak from old member of mmo

World of Warcraft: Soul of Azeroth

I doubt he wanna risk is account with 30k messages

[harsh wedge]

Got a link ?

[warm topaz]

yeah where is it

basically the guy says that is an underground expansion?

idk not too much details

literally no details

just "Soul of Azeroth"

i could say smething like: Hey guys World of Warcraft: Rice and Bananas its a leak see you on 3rd

[upper pasture]

Hmmm, I like bananas and rice is okay

Good expansion

[deep pawn]

I still hope all the leaks are wrong and the cinematic starts with Yrel saying "My world has died"

[warm topaz]

i would love to see something that no one expect

or something expect but is really hard to be real

like world revamp

or the void expansion

what im really curious about is the new features in the new expansion

i mean, they revamp talents + professions + flying on 10.0

what can they do for 11.0

[upper pasture]

Yeah expansion features are always something exciting to look forward to

Here’s to hoping we get a solo activity like torghast and player/guild housing. I also wouldn’t mind mission boards coming back in some form

I know they weren’t liked by all but mission boards were nice in a way of it was progress towards something while not actually playing the game.

And it was a nice opportunity for gold too lol

[warm topaz]

i forgot the upgrade gear system

which imo is universally positive and great

and a very underrated thing

[upper pasture]

Is it underrated? I’ve seen nothing but positive things about it

[warm topaz]

i like the one in Legion but didn't like the ones in BFA and SL

[warm topaz]

yeah, i meant that people don't see it as a new feature

like talents or professions

[upper pasture]

Ah, I guess.

[warm topaz]

maybe im wrong tbh, just my feelings but yeah is what you say i have only seen positives about it

[upper pasture]

Yeah, it’s more of a universal upgrade system than just stuck in M+. Which is huge. I guess if you didn’t do M+ before it would seems brand new to you but M+ players would likely see it as just more of the same? Idk it’s a nice update to the system though

[warm topaz]

i wonder if they have in mind something as big as M+ and Raids planned for the future, not necessarily for 11.0 but at some point

more solo content would be great as you said

[upper pasture]

honestly something i've been wondering is with all the leaks and the "what sword" comment. i wonder what they have planned for the sword since they've come out and said they haven't really forgotten about it. so it would be weird that another expansion would go by without dealing with it in some sort of way

[pulsar minnow]

There’s a good chance they could be dealing with it in Khaz Algar. Who’s to say the sword in the planet didn’t open up some underground route from silithus to wherever Khaz Algar is

Based on Towilllees mention of scarabs and whatnot too

[lone mantle]

Interesting theory.

[upper pasture]

man, i'd love the scarabs/AQ bugs to come back

[molten niche]

the boards in shadow land sucked the previous ones were fine

[austere gazelle]

If khaz algar is somewhere outside of avaloren it might be located in the western kalimdor then, only place where the dwarves did not had a strong presence, which should explain the sentence of odyn wondering why those earthen managed to adopt a culture similar to the other dwarves despite being remotely far from them

[upper pasture]

personally i liked the WoD boards best since you leveled them up and got them "gear" too

[novel zodiac]

Towelliee also posted this, so i would take everything he said with a grain of salt

i mean, no way in hell we get 2 classes to expansions in a row

[ember blaze]

And why is that impossible

[novel zodiac]

There are many reasons

like, it never happened before

and yeah, we're talking about lizard

[ember blaze]

You know what else never happened before?

[silent urchin]

why does everyone keep thinking towilee actually has insider information and is this lax with sharing it

[ember blaze]

A new spec mid expansion

[novel zodiac]

yeah, and that went well

broken as fuck and hated by everyone

[ember blaze]

That just isn’t true

It did go well.

Just because the 0.01% bitches about it doesn’t mean it was bad.

Blizz themselves said the feedback on it was positive

[warm topaz]

hated by you

and high end players

the rest of the playebase

[ember blaze]

And lots of people enjoy it and the support play style

[warm topaz]

80% of the people

loves it

[novel zodiac]

i dont hate it, i didnt play it yet

just saying what i see everyday

[warm topaz]

like, most of the people who plays WoW don't have twitter or mmo-c or watch streams

i totally disagree with the "everyone hates it" statement, no, everyone you read on twitter and listen to on streams hates it, and that's not even close to being everyone.

[subtle oar]

They've already gone on record that they wanted it to be ready for the xpac launch but it was not in a good enough state to release to they pushed it back to later in the xpac

[austere gazelle]

cause there was a blizzard press conf with content creator and they are all under NDA, they probably had a full preview of the next Xpack. remember the Jailer leaked pic with the beard? that was from there, with Shadowlands

[molten niche]

i hope they do annouce a new class or something

[ember blaze]

Ok, how does that change anything

[upper pasture]

I’m no nda lawyer but if someone was under an nda and they knew there was an tinker class coming and they posted an image that also said tinker. That’s pretty god damn close and would likely burn the bridge with the two parties

Not that I’m against new classes coming to WoW. I’d love more things to play around with

[molten niche]

who released a tinker image?

[pulsar minnow]

Towelliee just posted a bracelet with “Tinker” on it

Tbf he could be trolling

I wouldn’t put it past him

[upper pasture]

Isn’t towelliee like a devoted tinker class fanatic?

[molten niche]

bruh i wish tinker it would be a full support class

[pulsar minnow]

he likes the idea he's most likely just goofing with that post

[pulsar minnow]

Ehh… I don’t know if that would go over well

They could do a lot with the class. It could be any role honestly

I think blizz just needs to figure out how to balance aug first before pushing supports heavily

I think they’re definitely getting there though

[uncut lintel]

when november traing post

trading(

**

[molten niche]

by support i mean tank and healer

[deep pawn]

He's likely trolling cause the mmo-c thread today has had a ton of tinker takk

[upper pasture]

Maybe tomorrow since today is Sunday

[molten niche]

obviously on november 1st? the hell

[subtle oar]

It wasn't meant to launch mid xpac, thats what. They fell behind on the specs design and were forced to push it back. So your point is moot.

[subtle oar]

She means the Trading post preview blu epost

[deep pawn]

There's no hard evidence that Augmentation was meant for release at all.

I'd buy they were thinking tank and didn't like it so scrapped it and restarted as a support

[upper pasture]

Eh, narratively wouldn’t have made too much sense but who knows

[ember blaze]

also, source

everything matched up with the story they were telling

either way, it still came mid expansion, so whatever their initial plans were does not matter

something theyve never done happened so

[ember blaze]

iirc they explored tank early on, but it didnt really fit for what they were going for for the class

as a caster or whatever

[subtle oar]

Blizz devs literally said this

lol

[deep pawn]

Not that I recall.

They definitely mentioned tank was considered early but scrapped

After that I can totally see them making it fit the return of the black essence

[upper pasture]

I mean sure a tank spec makes sense if your just looking at the black essence but like the whole story and emberthals story would drastically change for it to fit that

[ember blaze]

https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcraft-dragonflight-patch-10-1-5-augmentation-evoker-interview/

doesn't sound to me like youre claiming

they established very early on that they wanted to wait

and it ended up fitting well with continuing the story of the dracthyr

"But, for launch, we really wanted to focus on Devastation and Preservation, these main damage and healing roles, and delivering those as fully as we could."

[deep pawn]

Then there's contradictory answers.

There's a beta one where they said they considered tank but abandoned it early on

[ember blaze]

yeah, but it seems it wouldnt have fit well with a mid range caster as they wanted it to

and they really wanted to do support and im glad they chose right

[austere gazelle]

Maybe it's another matter of PoV, like the lore, but for development, each dev has its own insight and they are all telling different things 🧌

[pulsar minnow]

Agreed. Really it could be anything

They said they planned for 3 specs but wanted to “focus on dev and pres” first

It’s pretty vague

[austere gazelle]

I'm just watching a bellular video and WTF... The book that is releasing ( war of the scaleborne ) reveals stuff that should have been in the game to solidify the story from the very start ? ( or the book should have been released before the expansion, but even then, stuff in this books are never mentionned in game so... wtf )

[deep pawn]

Common complaint for the game

People have said for ages they should put the stuff in game that is that important

[austere gazelle]

Yeah but usually we had these book released before the expansion ( like before the storm and stuff ). Even if it was not the best it was at least something

[rain cave]

Maybe it was meant to but canning SL early changed dates?

Who knows

[austere gazelle]

truth is if the stuff from this book was planned a long time ago we should have least have had some mentions of said stuff in the game. It's like the story wasn't fully fleshed out at the release of the expansion and it was made on the fly and the book condensed those stuff and added new things... which is... concerning

||Fyrak is alex's cousin and taught her how to fight, and was the first to ascend as incarnate, Fyrakk also have a sister who joined the Ordered Dragons ||

[novel zodiac]

im the only one that thinks that the book are cashgrabs full of bullshit?

[rain cave]

I mean I don't think we should have books about core current lore at all

like if they want to add to lore with books, I'm fine with that. But if it's current story it should be told in game imo

if a book wants to randomly delve into some older stories and expand them, that's fine with me

but if we're doing dragons in-game and a dragon book comes out like "oh and btw here's extra story"

imo just put that in game

even if it's something we have to go find like the other lore book teases in game

[pulsar minnow]

The books are usually fine. Legion’s book about Illidan was fantastic

Granted it was retcon-ny

[rain cave]

what I'm saying is independent of their quality

I get they can be good

but I just feel the format is flawed

if they're trying to convey important in-game lore through a book, it either isn't important or should be in game because it is important

if they wanted to go back to say, cata and tell a story from then about a section of the lore they want to expand upon

and then maybe tie it in later

like expanding old lore to set up new things

instead of just expanding literal current lore

[harsh mason]

1. we already knew that Alex was close to them (that's why she didn't kill them), because of her own words. 2) it is obvious that the novel (like your previous ones) was created to reveal the details

[austere gazelle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE9ZOFT2Lvo

[harsh mason]

What's the point? How does this contradict what I wrote?

Was it said in the game? It was! I understand that you want to be angry about this, but in this case it doesn't work

[austere gazelle]

I did'nt try to contradict you, just to understand the fuss about it by watching the video

[deep pawn]

hmmm, interesting... https://i.imgur.com/5AaQ3IW.png

There's a gryphon flying in the background too

[rain cave]

where's this from>

[silent urchin]

seems to be awfully spiky wings for a gryphon

[rain cave]

sure it's not AI also

they wouldn't have a set that looks like the new xpac I don't think

not a massive one at least

since that's just beggin to be an early leak

[silent urchin]

there's some definite weirdness

like the pallets are the base of the trees

[upper pasture]

Very void vibes there

[rain cave]

it's AI I'm pretty sure

[upper pasture]

…

[silent urchin]

like this

what's going on there

or here

I think the majority is a real image, but with AI bits overlaid

[rain cave]

yeah

the pillar I think is the pattern we saw on the blizzcon pillars but run through an AI filter then plastered onto a pillar or something

[upper pasture]

The tree on the right looks like it’s actually on the ground at the back but clearly we see it on a pallet too

[rain cave]

I think really it's just a photoshop somebody did with real images and then they ran the whole thing through a filter

the set pieces don't have the lighting of everything else

some of the boxes have contradictory lighting

[deep pawn]

it's not DALL-E ai though cause the light riggings are real

[rain cave]

probs stable diffusion

that's the most common one and open

[warm topaz]

what is ist?

like

blizzcon things*

[rain cave]

fake

[deep pawn]

it's supposedly a shot set up inside

[rain cave]

most likely me thinks

[warm topaz]

those guys in the buckground looks NPCs lmao

[rain cave]

one of them has no foot

[subtle oar]

They would

[crystal pond]

I am not gonna be surprised if the whole photo is ai

[warm topaz]

bro those pics are fake af

[subtle oar]

More believable than the zone leaks

[deep pawn]

ironically no since an ex Microsoft employee is saying people they know inside are saying the zones are real

[warm topaz]

wait, what

sources?

[deep pawn]

The curator of the 10.0 hypethread and spreadsheet

[warm topaz]

well i mean, do we know that ex microsoft employee?

[subtle oar]

Lol "I'm a fake ex Microsoft employee who would have absolutely no idea what the next wow xpac would be but I totally know ppl and they say these are real"

[warm topaz]

yeah totally

idk

[deep pawn]

Shadochi on the MMO-C thread.

oh, they were actually the 9.0 thread

[rain cave]

not at all

the zone leaks are eh to me but they're atleast in a believable format

but a massive AI set leak?

they don't really do sets for the xpac announcement

not anytime that comes to mind

and also yeah the photo is AI af

[ember blaze]

Blizzcon soon. Need more leaks

[deep pawn]

did you miss the possible con set up picture or Shadochi saying they heard from ex-colleagues that the zone leak was real?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NRPEe7YnCQ&ab_channel=WorldofWarcraft

oh it's the pillars!

[ember blaze]

The pics from above?

The issues circled out makes it seem very fake

[upper pasture]

he himself tells you to take it with a grain of salt and then restates that even he doesn't believe 100% if it's true lol

[deep pawn]

Yeah, but they later say this ex-coworker has never done anything like this to them before

(Promotion) Twitch Drop: Get the Dottie Pet and White Riding Camel November 7

[ember blaze]

[deep pawn]

(Article) Don’t Forget to Stay Tuned to World of Warcraft Day 1 at BlizzCon

[ember blaze]

Man I missed the last twitch pet

I don’t feel like making a 100th account just for these damn things

Fuck prime

And blizzard for tying shit to third parties

[deep pawn]

I'm pretty sure I already had Dottie, but the Camel would be new for me.

[deep pawn]

That poster has been around for a while and marshalled the 9.0 thread. They keep saying they really hope that the rumor is wrong.

[novel zodiac]

if that leak turns to be real im done with retail, classic + here we go

[deep pawn]

Even if it's another 18 month expansion with a promise of world revamp in January 2026?

[pulsar minnow]

I’m so confused why people are so insanely pissed over zones and not the fucking features of the expansion 💀

Like the zones look fine I don’t understand the problem

[warm topaz]

cosmic?

susge

[pulsar minnow]

Ooooo

Sounds cool

[warm topaz]

when those pictures were leaked

[deep pawn]

which one?

[warm topaz]

the avaloren ones

4 pictures

a lot of people were shiting on them

[deep pawn]

like a week ago?

[warm topaz]

yes

[warm topaz]

this

[warm topaz]

this

[deep pawn]

Oct 11: mogturmen shares the Agg'orand website leak. This user hasn't posted again since.
Oct 18: Algarstorms posts their Storms of Avaloren leak.
Oct 19: 22mage22 starts posting their own "Land of Conflict" info dumps.
Oct 26: The zone screenshots are originally posted on Reddit and then posted on MMO-Champion by Heryn. The earlier leak by Algarstorms gains new notoriety for having a few perceived similarities with the zone screenshots.
Oct 27: SoA posts their own leak which is heavily inspired by the one written by Algarstorms with details mixed in from the original website leak. This is nothing unusual, fake leakers frequently piggyback off of whatever's popular to add to their own credibility.
Oct 29: Algarstorms admits to their leak being fake and gets into a weird argument with 22mage22 which makes it seem like they're either the same person or working together, destroying the remaining credibility of both leakers with one stone.

Okay, so the 26th

[pulsar minnow]

Thank you for not making me feel crazy

I really hope people understand zones in WoW often DO use reused assets. We just don’t notice half the time

DF has too

And feature trailers are no exception

[warm topaz]

Maximum always says something that im very agree with: a lot of people that hate the game and shit on it doesn't play they game

[pulsar minnow]

I could honestly care less if they reuse assets so long as the game is good and fun and the zones are different enough that it’s not repetitive

[deep pawn]

Reused is normal, but people are calling out not a single new looking skeleton there.

[warm topaz]

you are just looking at 4 shots of the zones

[ember blaze]

Wait what features

[novel zodiac]

10th expansion, 20 years of WoW, 30 years of Warcraft and they chose to deliver mid?

[pulsar minnow]

They have yet to be revealed.

[ember blaze]

I only remember the 4 zones nothing about features

[novel zodiac]

nah thanks, im out of here

[ember blaze]

So what do they mean

[pulsar minnow]

How is it mid when you haven’t even seen the actual expansion?

[warm topaz]

how you say mid

[novel zodiac]

bro those zones are mid as fuck

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t even know what you’re asking

[warm topaz]

you havent seen anything of the expansion

[novel zodiac]

same shit we get every 2 years

[warm topaz]

quit the game

ty

[pulsar minnow]

Yes because we had a jungle and desert in DF

[warm topaz]

like if you don't like it, its fine, just quit

[pulsar minnow]

The last time we had either was BFA

[novel zodiac]

already did back in SL, i came back because DF was promising

[ember blaze]

You haven’t even seen the reveal… are you okay?

[warm topaz]

yeah there is no features, he just meant that people were shitin on the expansion without seeing the features just the "zones"

[pulsar minnow]

So do you just play the game for the zones

Or like

[silent urchin]

https://fxtwitter.com/AchoDune/status/1717873591893590104 this is the sort of thing previous feature reveals showed. I'm sure you could find some reused models in them, but the big draw of the image is always something fairly large and new

maybe you could hunt some boring shots in the full trailer

[novel zodiac]

i used to play for the lore, but we all know that's gone

[silent urchin]

but why would you hunt the most boring parts of a trailer to leak

[ember blaze]

You’ve been getting more of it

Outside of the stuff left to books

[novel zodiac]

quality over quantity

[upper pasture]

End of the day people just like to complain

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t understand then why you’d play if you don’t like the lore

[novel zodiac]

well yeah, there's complainers and theres conformist

[upper pasture]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease and what not

[pulsar minnow]

Like I know there’s attachment right, but when SL sucked I unsubbed

I didn’t touch 9.2

[deep pawn]

I skipped almost all of the Nazjatar patch playing ff14

[austere gazelle]

Yeah, if you look into the details you quickly notice that the only things making stuff differents are texture on the assets. The 3d models are used, reused, sliced, mashed up, but they are most of the time always the same and re-used, just covered with pretty new textures

[ember blaze]

Me too

[pulsar minnow]

Like shadowlands had an entire dungeon chock full of reused assets

Other side

[deep pawn]

That's not exactly fair since they go out of their way to put dungeons in the open world now when they can

[upper pasture]

yeah, but that dungeon wasn't part of the reveal of the expansion tho. that's my big thing is this is supposed to be new and fresh content and they lead with all reused assets?

[pulsar minnow]

Well it’s not as many as some people are saying

The only one with reused assets is the Sandy area

Well- not exactly truthful