beta-ptr-spoilers

[upper pasture]

there needs to be someone to oversee everything

and even more so since they added that M+ type mechanic to WotLK classic

[subtle oar]

Heroic + is what M+ should have been

[obtuse vine]

https://x.com/chrismetzen/status/1706745033905537511?s=46&t=xCU5PEs1yQwL9rCJRzfUXg

Chris Metzen (@ChrisMetzen)

It’s been amazing working on Warcraft again. Like coming home. The stories we’re developing right now – how the world unfolds over the next few years… Well, I can’t wait for y’all to see where we’re headed.

SOON… :)

Likes

301

Twitter · Sep 26, 2023, 6:58 PM

[upper pasture]

i have no issues with M+ but i also don't do anything past the seasonal mount ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[subtle oar]

This has me excited

[upper pasture]

soon

man, i couldn't have picked a better blizzcon to attend lol

[subtle oar]

Fucking Gratz man

[thin warren]

i want moar info!

[upper pasture]

5 weeks and 3 days!

[rain cave]

world of warcraft 2: unreal engine 5 extravaganza RTX ON featuring Battle pass and REAL graphics for MANLY women

I love how some people put that forward as a warcraft future when I feel most people would be happy to have a warcraft 2 that just has ingame graphics akin to something like Arcane in the warcraft style

like that one hearthstone xpac cinematic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVrPAhOR0kg&ab_channel=Hearthstone

[thin warren]

I find that it's just becoming a bit much, 9 expansions!

time for a clean start

[rain cave]

I doubt we'll get a WoW 2 proper

[thin warren]

😦 true

[rain cave]

unless they're REALLY confident

[thin warren]

instead of 11.0 just WoW 2

didn't they say once something like, as long as people play the game, we will support it?

ofcourse, for many peeps it's some nostalgia feeling, like, coming home, since we have been with this game for 10-20 years

[rain cave]

I mean, they could do something like how Valve did CS2 and Dota 2, where they update the whole backend in a comprehensive way but it's still using all the same accounts and support for old stuff

instead of a clean slate you keep all your old stuff, but then they update the game to a state where they see it as effectively new

but who knows

blizzard are quite opaque when it comes to future projects

[lone mantle]

I can provide you with a fresh start, mortals.

[warm topaz]

what is more likely Metzen working on Classic +, a new retail expansion or both

[crystal pond]

Oh they said "as long as people give us money we will support them"

[subtle oar]

Why

[rain cave]

probably some variant of both

since he's overseeing all of warcraft they said in the announcement

[upper pasture]

I’m sorry but the whole classic but a different events take place just feels too much of an hassle for them to upkeep everything. Seems to me it would muddy the waters

I feel like we’re just getting expansions and we will see classic era type moving forward until the end of WoW.

And there’s nothing wrong with that, I don’t think we need a WoW2 or classic reimagined

[ember blaze]

Idk if classic players want to get to current wow

[upper pasture]

I do think that the heroic + thing they added to WotLK classic is a nice improvement

[ember blaze]

Yeah so why not keep classic and iterate on it more

[subtle oar]

It's literally so much fun. And super great for gearing my alts for raid

[upper pasture]

Yeah well I suppose we will see whenever shadowlands classic gets announced and see how that goes cause people are already looking back and claiming SLs was much better than DF

[ember blaze]

Who are those people

[upper pasture]

Simply put its people who just want to complain

I don’t think anyone actually believes that they believe that

[subtle oar]

Ofc not. Those who want "classic+" or WoW2 simply are just repeating a content creators opinion and not thinking for themselves because they can't articulate their own gripes.

[upper pasture]

the way i see it is blizzard will never make a Classic+ type thing were the timeline doesn't run as our did (retail) because they wouldn't want players to feel the need to play both classic+ and retail to experience the whole story

creating systems to make content harder in classic like Heroic+ is fine but changing the story would never make sense and is completely disrespectful to their long term players

[harsh mason]

I hope there won't be any "wow2". It doesn't make sense. Each new exp is wow2, wow3 and so on

[short prism]

people on twitter and in discords saying “atleast SL wasnt boring” and idk what 9.X they were playing but it most definitely was

[harsh mason]

It seems to me, or has Fyrakk become smaller in the new raid?

He seems to have started to grow after devouring SF

Damn, the size of the characters in wow is some kind of curse, lol. They get bigger, then smaller

[upper pasture]

I mean, having huge bosses is kinda meh, if they kept him huge we’d have a chance of having a spine of DW fight again and I don’t think anyone wants that

[harsh mason]

Uhhhh https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1706767384994873396?s=46&t=JnHiP_kKibjOKbPmUfJMWQ

Algalon, Enigmatic Observer (@algalon_ghost)

New #Warcraft build found:
Vendor 2 (wowv2)🔐: 10.2.0.51487 --> 10.2.0.51521

Found at: 09-26-2023@08:27:08 UTC

Twitter · Sep 26, 2023, 8:27 PM

[warm topaz]

nice, new build

[dense plover]

vendor build

nothing important

new wrath classic mount

i dont think source is known, but i suspect its tied to retail OR a twitch campaign

[silent urchin]

could be that new dungeon hardmode?

[dense plover]

could be

[short prism]

sick

i wonder what that’d look like in retail

[silent urchin]

guessing 10.2 will be tomorrow if vendor was this late

[dense plover]

someone suggested it could be a new 1 year sub mount

[silent urchin]

Could be. Probably due for one soon

[harsh mason]

By the way, I'm just wondering how soon another drama in the wow community can begin because of this news

I mean, in any community on any hype there is always an "anti-hype", which turns into a drama

[dense plover]

well you wont find that in this channel

metzen was hamstrung by a small writing team

thats not the case anymore

he knows the world better than anyone

and if we are going somewhere truly new, he is the right person to bring on board

[silent urchin]

Well if you want drama, https://www.reddit.com/r/Blizzard/comments/16su694/more_layoffs_at_blizzard_today/

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

lots of companies overhired during the pandemic

im sure blizz is one of them

could also be related to the merger - really unlikely though

[short prism]

not to mention the microsoft acquisition is imminent

[dense plover]

could be a specific department

the person who wrote this didnt say where their SO worked

[short prism]

i wouldn’t be surprised that we’re gonna see a lot of employee shifting around, firing and hiring again

[dense plover]

could also be fake and just stirring up drama

if its real, without knowing where this person's SO worked, we really cant say much

[rain cave]

could be overwatch staff even

but who knows

fake, real, even if it is there's like 50 million factors

[deep pawn]

D4 could see a ton of layoffs too if they don't think an expansion will do as well anymore

We already have the 30 minute video documentaries about "how did Diablo 4 fail?"

[upper pasture]

i'd like it imagine that some of these layoffs could also be "helping" some employees get benefits of being fired instead of waiting until microsoft takes over and gives them the boot without any severance

[dense plover]

D3 failed too and they fixed it

i dont see them abandoning it with the amount of time and money they spent

especially b/c its definitely fixable

[deep pawn]

Sure it was a success on initial sales but man as a live service game I don't know if they can resurrect it

[dense plover]

this is also possible

[dense plover]

literally D3 my guy

D3 on launch was fucked

reaper of souls happened

[deep pawn]

D3 never got as big as they wanted

[dense plover]

then seasons

D3 was also not as successful on launch

D4 has the potential to be huge

they need to fix stuff

0% chance theyre giving up on it

[deep pawn]

D3 had the most "sold" at the time cause they had the annual pass freebies counted

[upper pasture]

or because of YoY gaming is becoming more and more accessible so "most sold" isn't really a good metric to follow

[dense plover]

^^^^

also you dont typically lay off good devs, you move them to other projects

layoffs are for redundant positions

[deep pawn]

Just throwing it out there, Blizzard has two franchises visibly struggling at the moment.

[dense plover]

Overwatch is still making a load of money no matter how many people complain

[upper pasture]

or for people who you were letting "get by" of sorts and you're doing them a favor by firing them now so they can collect unemployment instead of when MS comes and does it and owes them nothing other than "that position no longer exists"

[dense plover]

^this is also true

at this point, the deal is going through

[deep pawn]

Is ow2 making money? I'll admit I haven't spent a dollar on it

[dense plover]

and again, we dont know how many people were laid off

[dense plover]

anecdotal evidence that doesnt fit the actual data

[upper pasture]

like that is common practice especially if you're in good graces with your employer

[dense plover]

just because you arent buying doesnt mean others arent

[deep pawn]

I haven't heard anyone excited about ow2 and just seeing cut content after cut content, but I also don't wait to read what blizzard says about the game quarterly

[dense plover]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/krisholt/2023/02/06/overwatch-2-earned-over-100-million-in-its-first-three-months/?sh=3f9d9f65077f

it makes money

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deep pawn]

That was pre cut PvE while people had hope, so hopefully they can ride that profit for a while

[dense plover]

you are still making tons of assumptions

[upper pasture]

still money was made

[dense plover]

instead of making claims based on anecdotes, look at the data

[deep pawn]

And tons of money was made off d4 doesn't stop that currently it'd be seen as a live service failure

[dense plover]

OW2 is definitely less successful than they want, BUT it is making money

[dense plover]

its had 1 season my guy

was too soon for the time and money invested

theyll call it a failure if numbers stay this way next year

not before then

[deep pawn]

HotS was making money too if you ignored what they were spending on making esports a thing and it was still cut entirely.

[dense plover]

HotS was NOT making money

youre wrong

the league had viewership

but it didnt result in users

and the userbase was not profitable

go look at the quarterlies for HotS

it had pretty consistent decrease in profits

again, you are not using data

[deep pawn]

A decrease in a positive number is still a positive number.... unless you meant just revenue

[dense plover]

i did mean revenue

sorry

blizzard killed HotS BECAUSE of competitive

it was profitable prior to the pro league

and then began to go downhill after

b/c they changed the game to make it more competitive

defeating the point of people playing it over other MOBAs

HotS when it launched was unique because the games were short and fast, the maps were fun, and the gameplay was unique

[deep pawn]

They spent too much on creating pro teams. My understanding is at this point Blizzard's entire esports department is down to a small fraction of what it was.

[dense plover]

over time, they killed all of that

[dense plover]

esports is sorta dead for blizz

i wouldnt be surprised if thats who theyre laying off

[deep pawn]

They're winding down owl and once that's gone I imagine it'll be a skeleton crew for m+, arena, and hearthstone

[dense plover]

esports have been dying for all but the biggest, most esports committed games

i have no idea if hearthstone competitive is still a thing

but i do know HS is still incredibly profitable

[deep pawn]

It is I'm fairly sure

[dense plover]

theres probably a bit enough audience where that might stick around

[deep pawn]

There'll probably be some hearthstone competitive at Blizzcon even

[dense plover]

idk about the M+ invitational

i dont think thats popular enough to stay

but i dont have the data

OW league is complicated

they need it for OW2 to make ANY sense, which it already doesnt

[harsh mason]

Of course, I didn't mean to say in any way that the drama would be on this channel. I meant reddit or twitter

[deep pawn]

Mdi and the great push seem to be doing fine for how small a crew runs it

[dense plover]

its pretty clear OW2 was just a way to switch their business model

and people hate the new one, and i honestly dont know if its more profitable

it doesnt have the LEGAL problems OW1 had with lootboxes tho

[deep pawn]

Especially if they keep all the casters remote

At this point mdi uses existing hardware, offsets the studio equipment to the casters, all they need is a coordinator for the teams and I guess a director for the stream

[dense plover]

yeah MDI probably costs nothing

[deep pawn]

Liquid and Echo spend more on the races

[dense plover]

yeah

[deep pawn]

So do you believe in the classic+ stuff?

[dense plover]

hard to say

but i dont see why they shouldnt

probably profitable at least for the first whatever they do

[deep pawn]

Some people are mega attaching to it now with Metzen being core to the team again

[dense plover]

i doubt it will be an entire expac

i think metzen is back b/c shadowlands was a bust

so they need metzen for any new lore

if we are going somewhere really new in 11.0, metzen is king

[deep pawn]

I'd argue Shadowlands was a bust cause of zone layout and covenant locks. They didn't remember the cata lesson about players hating portals

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i think bad zone layouts isnt enough

bad lore was a big chunk

[deep pawn]

I'm just gonna be sad if we don't get old world revamp. I don't expect 50 zones but for end game they could totally make 3-4 zones per continent even if the world size itself is smaller

5 weeks to go

[dense plover]

im not

i dont think its happening

too much work, not enough payoff

maybe next NEXT expac

so 12.0

i think we are due for a new pandaria

[deep pawn]

I had hopes they were going big for 20th

[dense plover]

back of azeroth my dude

especially if metzen announces it

i cant imagine metzen being back and announcing cata 2.0

that would be such SHIT PR

[deep pawn]

Everything about Avaloren seems meh to me so far but who knows

I think an underground expansion would be the worst outcome

[dense plover]

i dont think this is the place we will go

thats what im hoping for

somewhere ELSE

i dont see them doing an underground expac

zaralek style is the way itll work in the future

[deep pawn]

Light vs void war centered on old world just felt like the best way to go home and do the 20th

[dense plover]

hell, they might even do a zone that has a surface AND underground

since they have the tech for it now

[deep pawn]

I want a siege of Stormwind dang it

[dense plover]

yuck

i dont want cata 2.0 mixed with the worst parts of MoP

SoO was a great raid, but it doesnt need to be echoed on the alliance side

thats shitty writing

they should progress the story, not restate it with a different coat of paint

[deep pawn]

Even if it's just an outside power using the city as a base vs the entire faction going bad?

[dense plover]

same shit

SoO was that dude

old god corrupted garrosh remember?

i dont think the turalyon stuff is gonna happen soon

i think the entire point of keeping him around is saving him for the future

like they saved illidan

[deep pawn]

I just wanna see Azshara nom a void divine mother dang it. I want a satisfying explanation for her coming power up

[dense plover]

why do you think she is getting powered up?

you are drawing a lot of conclusions to rationalize a story that has no guarantees

[deep pawn]

If she's going to be a raid boss again they'll have to do something to make her feel like a bigger baddie.

[dense plover]

I don’t think she will be

Not anytime soon

She was a boss twice already

In one expac

No way she comes back soon

If anything I could see the Naga having a new queen that they introduce us to if the naga become story relevant

[deep pawn]

Between her people active on the isles and the new Naga back pack her return is likely soon

[dense plover]

Again - could be a new queen

[deep pawn]

Except the islands explicitly refer to Azshara who we know went to the "true seat"

[subtle oar]

D3 on launch was better than D4 on launch, even with error 37. I hope they actually make D4 good, its just not a fun game rn and Season 2 does not look like an improvement.

[deep pawn]

I think it's kinda interesting that it's Holly and Chris presenting everything Warcraft at Blizzcon.

Guess it just complete the what looks like replacement of Hight and a lowering of Ion's role outside of patches.

I know Ion is still game director but they are definitely using Holly for the big franchise stuff

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1706812550879281648

MrGM (@MrGMYT)

Update: This has now been removed from the Wrath Classic PTR 👀

Twitter · Sep 26, 2023, 11:26 PM

[deep pawn]

I'll admit I don't know enough to tell the difference between general manager and executive producer

[warm topaz]

what a executive producer does

like

what executive producer means

like, executive creative director

[silent urchin]

It can mean basically anything

[warm topaz]

no one know how much impact really have

[deep pawn]

I'm mostly in awe of how fast Holly moved.

She went from EQ to classic to being in charge of all WoW very fast

[silent urchin]

In theory exec producers are the top level in charge of the creative team, but an individual exec producer might have a very narrow role

in movies, it's pretty common for the people who finance them to get exec producer credits, even though they tend not to have any say on the day to day running of the project

[deep pawn]

That's generally not how Blizzard has done it but they've been changing titles so fast lately

Like Hight went from executive producer of Shadowlands to General Manager

Not even mentioning the whole president debacle at the top of blizzard

[deep pawn]

Pointless head canon time is Chris waited for the acquisition to be a done deal cause he didn't want an executive title again until he was sure Kotick was on the way out

[silent urchin]

It's apparently been a fairly open secret that he's been more heavily involved with the next expansion and onwards

there's a T&E video on the subject

[rain cave]

Legion started on the broken isles, who's to say that a void expansion couldn't start on a new unknown continent untouched by the titans

that's what I'm betting

since having all patches be just purple void shart would be strain on the eyes

like the legion green we got sick of after a while

having a new continent gives us new factions, not only new races who could potentially have new magics (new looks). But also gives us a builup to the purer void

maybe we see azshara, and she's ascending some new naga, but some others don't agree with her and think they should stray away now that they're free from nzoth's influence.

[deep pawn]

It was announced months ago now that he and Holly were the headliners for WoW at Blizzcon, so he's been working on this for a while, the official title only came after the last hurdle to the acquisition though

[rain cave]

Maybe xalatath is there, dredging up some old black empire stuff, bringing back her aesthetic from before the blade

a voidy iridikron appearing around? could be cool

then ofc there's ethereals

[deep pawn]

oh new pet

oh hell no if they added this and you have to go do a bunch of classic dungeons haha

[silent urchin]

arfus? Or the prime one

[deep pawn]

arfus

[subtle oar]

It would make sense

[deep pawn]

I have a paladin that's like 77 but ugh

[dense plover]

apparently the restructuring was the HS team

so must be cutting back somehow

maybe the people who did mercs?

or esports?

[deep pawn]

Gacha never did make sense for Blizzard

but Mercs doesn't seem like it'd take a big team

[warm topaz]

people losing their minds saying like: this is going to end like HoS did

[upper pasture]

HoS? HotS?

people are stupid anyways

[deep pawn]

"Organizational changes were made to the Hearthstone team; as a result a small number of roles have become redundant. We want to thank these employees for their many contributions."

10 people

Not that I think HS is a huge team as it is

[dense plover]

oh thats nothing

fucking people screaming about layoffs

it was 10 people

HS team is probably 100-200

at least

[deep pawn]

I don't know what their roles were, but unexpected layoffs always suck for those involved

It was a producer and some engineers

[upper pasture]

at worst it was likely an expansion wasn't panning out say like "mercs 2" or something and the lead said nope. and a group of people got fired. but yes, unexpected layoffs do suck

who really knows. sure does suck but those 10 people are likely receiving unemployement in the near future

[short prism]

we also don’t know how unexpected this is for the devs who were laid off. it’s possible there was more time than we know

[dense plover]

layoffs usually involve some kind of severance

vs firing which doesnt

[deep pawn]

this was aparrently with zero warning

called in this morning and told "redundant"

[upper pasture]

On the word of what? The SO of one of the ten people that got laid off?

[deep pawn]

no, the linked in of one of the people

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/hunter-curren_after-18-and-a-half-years-at-blizzard-entertainment-activity-7112482456317947904-Udhf/

[dense plover]

my point about 10 people was more about it being actual restructuring vs major issues

10 people is not 'blizzard is having problems'

[short prism]

i hope they atleast got good severance

[tepid fiber]

One random legendary card and three normal card packs

[deep pawn]

Not even a diamond leggo?

[harsh mason]

People are being fired in heaps from large companies, this is a normal practice (no matter how strange it may sound). I don't really understand what there is to talk about at all

These 10 will be replaced very quickly.

[deep pawn]

doubt they'll be replaced if their roles were redundant. They restructured the hearthstone team and we'll find out soon if that means a content type got cut

[rain cave]

Probably tavern brawl, hearthstone classic

The raid shadow legends thing

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/TerranGregory/status/1706902247937028605

Terran Gregory 💙 (@TerranGregory)

Been working with Chris a whole lot since he came back last year - and can’t wait to share what’s been cooking at Blizzcon and beyond! #workwork

Likes

468

Twitter · Sep 27, 2023, 5:23 AM

[harsh mason]

In fact, we will not know what and how much content will be cut. Content is cut out in every game, absolutely in every one, it has nothing to do with restructuring at all. This is the most common process of developing something

[molten niche]

who is he

[warm topaz]

the guy who makes the cinematics in wow

one of them, he is the director

[harsh mason]

The person thanks to whom you see cinematics in the game

Starting with The Wrathgate

[molten niche]

oh u mean those things i skip over lol

[warm topaz]

u don't skip the expa anounncement cinematic

he is in charge of that too

[subtle oar]

O.o

The fuck

[vernal juniper]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/customavatars/thumbs/avatar707750_11.gif

so we get 1st clue

about the leaker

[harsh mason]

Players: damn, there was only 1 cinematics in 10.1, there was no cinematics after the raid, blizzard are so lazy.
Also players:

[pulsar minnow]

Why is every “leak” a very blurry image of something we can’t even make out

At least for shadowlands it was just a literal still of Bolvar in the cinematic

For Dragonflight it was literally the key art

[vernal juniper]

https://i.imgur.com/zV7wqyX.jpeg

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah. Those are like 100% ai

[vernal juniper]

https://i.vgy.me/exy5bv.png

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah I just don’t believe it

Anyone nowadays can just generate a leak, compress the image, and then say “oh I can’t post more because of xyz”

[vernal juniper]

Well this is the one you need to believe the most

comes from the guys who is correctly leaking since legion

[pulsar minnow]

What did he leak exactly?

[vernal juniper]

in legion?

[pulsar minnow]

Like what about each expansion did he leak

[vernal juniper]

demon hunter class, guldan last boss

before the exp announce

[pulsar minnow]

Argus was the last boss was he not?

[vernal juniper]

yeah but the leaked guldan right idk as last boss or not actually, now that I'm thinking

on DF he leaked, photo of evokers, talents

in game screens

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t remember the evoker ever getting leaked at least, through pictures

It was leaked as the name

But the only things for DF leaked were the picture of Alexstrasza and then the logo

[vernal juniper]

also the cinematic

yeah alextrasza comes from him

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2580086-Dragonflight-Alpha-Beta-General-Discussion/page2216?p=53708932#post53708932

https://i.imgur.com/JVwb0MT.png

[dense plover]

yeah thats 1000% ai btw

those images - i saw someone recreate them almost exactly with AI

its fake

[vernal juniper]

yeah but what he wrote is the big thing

[pulsar minnow]

Okay so for the leaks in DF

There was another post- not by him. Saying basically the same thing

Are sure this guy didn’t just… yknow. Take a leak from someone else

[vernal juniper]

well read also the legion quoted post

pretty confident

[upper pasture]

“I can’t post in more detail because these photos might have been sent on purpose” lol that tells me if he did get this from a legit source it’s prolly not even real images. Let’s just say hypothetically he did get this from a source and the source is suspicious of him being the leak. They’ve fed him fake photos to see if he’s the one breaking the NDA. And for the DF info that he leaked. Didn’t all that “leak” happen like shortly before the announcement? Like when nearly anyone who had a press kit could have leaked it?

It’s just too sussy, if he waited until like Thursday before blizzcon maybe I’d be more inclined to believe it

[harsh mason]

All leaks that appear earlier than a week before the official announcement are fakes. A week or later-it is already possible

But I am sure that no one will leaks the screen of whole locations

[vernal juniper]

yeah but we will see, thise dude was right 2 times

if we will have dreadlords, he will right once again.

[harsh mason]

There may be leaks of concept art

[upper pasture]

That’s such a broad thing tho

[harsh mason]

But not locations. This is already too much

[upper pasture]

Guys trust me there will be a Lich in the next expansion. #leaks

[pulsar minnow]

Call me crazy guys, you’re not gonna believe it. There will in fact be dungeons in the next expansion

And raids

But idk what PvP is never heard of it

[upper pasture]

There will also be transmogs! Like none you’ve ever seen before

[pulsar minnow]

At least one transmog will be Paladin themed

And one themed after every class too

[obtuse vine]

Guys I got the real leak for the next expansion. My uncle’s friend who worked at blizzard years ago leaked the new expansion! It’s called Wrath of the Bolvar

It will include a new continent which will be revamped Ice Crown citadel and its mysterious chambers. They’ll be massive zones like zaralek cavern to demonstrate just how much wrath Bolvar has. The first raid is a giant dome underneath ice crown citadel. This raid will be WrathGated with one boss releasing every week (think timegating but with more wrath). Main feature is Wrathwalking. It allows your character to rp walk but it deals damage around you! This expansion will feature new quests, mobs, dungeons raids and patches. That’s all the info I got from my uncles friend! Don’t believe me? Just wait till blizzcon.

[crystal pond]

We need expansion that will delete wow

[pulsar minnow]

New expansion: World of Warcraft: Reality

New Features: 9-5

New Mount System: Driving

Auction House Updates: Global Economy

[glass flicker]

Flightpath prices increased
Food is now required
Added weight system tied to Food

[pulsar minnow]

All classes and races removed except humans

[glass flicker]

Reputation now based on NPC to NPC basis. You need to not be a douche.

Hairstyles are no longer permanent. Enabled hair growth.

[subtle oar]

We saw months ago and were proven to be AI. They were supposedly "Primordial Azeroth"

[subtle oar]

Pvp is always enabled, can't be turned off. Death is permanent

[young latch]

I know I’m in the minority but I’m not that excited about a Metzen return. But I also don’t want to be unfair to him.

I have WoD and Medan ptsd still.

[harsh mason]

As I wrote earlier, and as Terran Gregory wrote, Metzen has been back for a long time (there was also information about this a year ago). He just wasn't part of the staff. Most likely, DF has a lot of his advisory and ideas

[young latch]

Do we know on what stuff specifically?

[silent urchin]

No

and there's not even really a specific part

it's all collaborative

[upper pasture]

Didn’t they announce it like towards the end of SLs that he was back as an advisor or something like that?

[silent urchin]

you cannot separate out the good parts and say metzen did that, and the bad parts and say danuser did those

[obtuse vine]

I thought it was after dragonflight released? Might be wrong tho

[silent urchin]

he was a creative consultant, or something

so part time

last blizzcon I think

or possibly the one before

but he's apparently been getting more and more involved anyway, so the job title change makes sense

[upper pasture]

Yeah I think it was during or around blizzcon online

[young latch]

I guess I’m just disappointed they couldn’t find new creative talent for this role because I’m interested in the long term longevity of the IP.

[silent urchin]

there is a lot of very good creative talent at blizz on the wow team

[upper pasture]

Idk man, I think having one of the OGs back is great

[silent urchin]

I think this is mostly cause metzen is just bad at retiring

[young latch]

I think Danuser gets too much hate compared to Afraisabi.

[upper pasture]

I have my own theory and thought as to why he stepped away and is now coming back but I’m sure they are just that

[harsh mason]

Example, In a recent interview, Ion said that they had the idea to add the theme of the old gods to the emerald dream, but then they changed their minds. I'm sure this is one of Metzen's tips

Most likely so that it wasn't the second BfA

[young latch]

Legion also already did that.

[harsh mason]

Yes, and that too

[young latch]

Why do you think it was a Metzen tip?

[harsh mason]

Because his role was that he was an "adviser on ideas." There is no such position in Blizzard, so he did not officially work. A creative director is something close to this

[ionic terrace]

ptrs are down so should be build today

[harsh mason]

That doesn't mean he wrote the plot, lol, no

[glass flicker]

Wait, I thought PTR meant "player tears recycled"

Or recovered. Or something.

[young latch]

The thing I do like about Metzen tastes is he does seem to advocate for elemental and nature themes.

Ion feels very all titans all old gods all the time.

[glass flicker]

I could do with less cosmic stuff and big bad evil guys who can crack the planet with a slap.

[young latch]

I want more political drama less cataclysmic events

Medium scale threats

[glass flicker]

I want a villain without a goal that just does evil things for the sake of causing trouble.

"Azeroth is just getting a bit too peaceful"
Yeah, quote Sundowner.

[young latch]

I’d love a plot where genn goes nuts and we side with Crowley to put him down/or retire him but I doubt that will happen

[glass flicker]

I want Lorna and Tessie to be queens together. My biggest non-canon ship.

[young latch]

Love lorna

[glass flicker]

Yee.

And think about it.

The Gilnean queens who are not cursed with the Worgen affliction.

[young latch]

I need Tess to be more of a character to care about her

[glass flicker]

They can't relate but are trying to be empathetic.

[young latch]

It would be funny if they both just had a massive red riding hood aesthetic with capes that drag for yards among this civilization of feral wolf men soldiers

[short prism]

it was really sad the worgen heritage boiled down to “noo haha you don’t want to be a worgen tess just be you :)”

atleast as far as i remember

[pulsar minnow]

WoWs narrative has been good, but it’s missing its edge right now. The characters in the story are playing a supporting role to the player characters. While that’s not inherently a bad thing, they still need to do something

Metzen puts a lot of focus on the characters, so I hope that we see more of our characters doing things

I’ve said it before but seriously, we have these Uber powerful 50ft tall dragons with crazy magic abilities, and we haven’t seen them really do anything but breathe fire

It feels like 90% of the cinematics this expansion have just been characters having a conversation after something major happens. Rather than a cinematic of something major happening.

[glass flicker]

I mean, even the trailer cinematic was a letdown, for me.

Just Koranos, or Stony Tony, climbing something and falling. No big battle, no character for us to be endeared to, and Alexstrazsa just shows up like "ay, no fallin'"

And sorry to say, but WoD actually had the best cinematic trailer.

[upper pasture]

See this is just silly half the player base complains “we don’t want big bad evil, we want chill experience” they give us an expansion that starts with just exploring the DI and coming back to it then we get everyone complaining “this is boring, blizzard doesn’t know how to write stories”

DF intro was fine, it was about returning to the hidden dragon isles. I’m also pretty sure there was a snippet of raz in the trailer too

[tepid fiber]

"We're tired of being the chosen ones! Hey, wait, why aren't we in front of the camera??"

[glass flicker]

😐

Just be more like vanilla, TBC and Pandaria's intros.

Show some nice visuals, what we might encounter, some action scenes, and a big reveal of the continent.

That's why I didn't like the DF cinematic.

It missed two out of the four boxes.

[upper pasture]

Uhh, I’ll have to sit down and revisit the cinematic but I’m pretty sure it checks 3/4 of those boxes

And it specifically didn’t do the action scenes because of how much feedback blizzard has gotten about how we’re are tired of action all the time and want a “chill” experience

[pulsar minnow]

I 100% agree. I remember even people like bellular asking for an expansion about “rebuilding Azeroth” and now he complains about a lack of blood and guts or whatever

I never advocated for a laid back expansion. Just one that dealt with less cosmic threats

[glass flicker]

Pandaria was a relatively chill experience, in theme. I don't see people complaining about the lack of action or chill there.

[pulsar minnow]

Doesn’t mean we can’t see Ebyssian and Iridikron beat the crap out of each other 🙏 (referring to my last message)

(Please this would be so awesome blizz)

[upper pasture]

I’m sorry but Ebyssian would be toast currently if he fought Iridikron

[glass flicker]

Yeah, that's right.

I feel like Iridikron would have to be an Aspects United level threat.

[pulsar minnow]

Oh but with aspect powers I think he def could hold his own for a bit (which we know he’ll get)

I just wanna see an earth bender dragon battle

To be completely honest

[upper pasture]

I mean, if it took Nel needing the power of the old gods to lock them away you best believe it would take empowered aspects and more to deal with Iridkron now

[glass flicker]

Exactly.

I just don't get the deal with Xal'Atath here. Why would she want to screw us over by siding with Iridikron?

[upper pasture]

Power?

[dense plover]

she is probably using him

[glass flicker]

Likely, but I still don't see it.

[dense plover]

whatever we are doing next expac is going to focus on iridikron and xalateth for sure

[upper pasture]

I mean, I’m assuming the void lords or void entities rule akin to pirates those with power make the rules and she’s likely using him to gain power or control

[upper pasture]

I so hope he makes it to the next expansion

[pulsar minnow]

I hope that becomes canon in some way

That sounds so sick

Space void pirate gods

Hell yea

[dense plover]

i think he has to

they need new villains

[upper pasture]

Yeah

[dense plover]

and with 11.0 making dragonflight the base leveling expac

it makes sense, especially if patch stuff is integrated into leveling like it should be

[upper pasture]

I mean that’s been my thought for the whole thing but who knows

[dense plover]

sure theyll have to reintroduce xalatath for new players

but thats easy

[glass flicker]

It'd be cool if we got a cinematic trailer with Xal'Atath retelling her story to Iridikron. How she got imprisoned in the knife, their plans, etc.

Imagine a CGI N'zoth.

Yup.

I don't think we've had Lovecraftian beings adapted with CGI in any media, ever.

[dense plover]

hard to do

also because alluding to lovecraft isnt ideal

because racism and antisemitism

[pulsar minnow]

I could see the cgi cinematic introducing next expansion just being a flashback to Xal’Ataths imprisonment

[dense plover]

we dont really know her backstory tbf

getting more would satisfy new and old players

[glass flicker]

That's why I suggested Xal'Atath telling her story to Iridikron being the cinematic.

[dense plover]

yeah im saying thats not a bad idea - probably not a great cgi trailer

probably a better intro cinematic in engine or something

unless its BfA style where we get a bunch

it wouldnt be a good cinematic trailer intro

theres usually very little dialogue

USUALLY

[glass flicker]

See, that's the issue BfA had. The Old Warrior cinematics were amazing. But the expansion wasn't.

World of Warcraft: The Great Dark could be pretty awesome.

[dense plover]

yeah but thats not related

2 different teams

i would love something named a bit more comically, like West of Kalimdor or something

[glass flicker]

World of Warcraft: Return of Azmerloth

Final villain: murloc

[upper pasture]

World of Warcraft: Azeroth’s backside

[dense plover]

or something a bit more literal, WoW: The Journey East/West depending on story stuff

[dense plover]

i mean, essentially but not dumb

[glass flicker]

I still like my idea.

[upper pasture]

I know

[glass flicker]

The Great Dark

[upper pasture]

Darkside of Azeroth

[harsh mason]

I wonder how this skirmish between Vyranoth and Odin will end. I doubt she'll kill him.

[glass flicker]

I'm talking about space.

That's what it's called in WoW.

[upper pasture]

I mean the great dark does in fact sound nice

But I don’t see us turning to the space front all of a sudden at the end of DF

[harsh mason]

And what is this mysterious Uldaz (it would be strange to indicate this as one of the places where Tyr hammer works, but not to add to the game itself

[pulsar minnow]

Didn’t the dev who made that say it was a joke or something? Correct me if I’m wrong

[harsh mason]

All this hints (for me personally, there are no proofs at the moment) that there will be something related to Titans in DF yet

[glass flicker]

Have you ever noticed all Titan facilities have the prefix Uld?

Uldaman, Ulduar, Uldum, Uldir, Uldaz?

[upper pasture]

Uldaz could be the actual facility where Azeroth is kept?

[harsh mason]

titankeeper also calls Uldaz in the heart chamber in BFA

[glass flicker]

Could be. Like Antorus was for Argus.

Maybe the titan facilities on Argus all had the prefix Ant.

[harsh mason]

Of course, that's not what I meant

[dense plover]

tbh i would love a like, voyage into a forbidden dark land, unvisited by people ala heart of darkness but without all the overt racism

heart of darkness works as a good story frame as evidenced by apocalypse now

[harsh mason]

I mean, we are looting weapons in the dungeon, the unique ability works only in the listed locations (and only Uldaz we have not visited yet). That is, the hammer should work in a location that is not yet in the game

That's what I'm talking about

[upper pasture]

Could be 10.3 content 😛

[harsh mason]

We can visit all other listed locations

[glass flicker]

I wonder why Nazdormu isn't more specific with these things.

[upper pasture]

Could have also been cut

[harsh mason]

but no Uldaz

[dense plover]

could also be a place we have already visited

and just didnt know the titan facility name

[glass flicker]

Maybe Uldaz is actually Iridikron's plan.

[upper pasture]

It’s true we don’t know what the titans call everything

[harsh mason]

Well they could still just cut that name out of the hammer's description

[glass flicker]

Purging the World Soul so Azeroth is an Elemental Planet instead of a Titan.

[harsh mason]

Unlikely. Since this should be the place where the weapon's ability should work

[upper pasture]

Do you have the hammer? Have you gone everywhere?

[glass flicker]

If Azeroth, the Titan dies, and the planet continues to live, free of "Titan corruption" maybe that's Iridikron's plan.

[pulsar minnow]

Still really hoping my theory is right and Azeroth is connected to the 7th cosmological force

[harsh mason]

No. But the community would have found out long ago

[dense plover]

lol

no they wouldnt have

[glass flicker]

Soul?

[dense plover]

especially if it doesnt have any enemies

[upper pasture]

She’s clearly the “heart” like Captain Planet

[dense plover]

what if its like zuldazar or something

[harsh mason]

Well, once again: all the locations in which the hammer works - they are relevant for DF

[pulsar minnow]

Soul isn’t a force tho

[harsh mason]

Ulduar in timewalk

[upper pasture]

This is a bold assumption

[glass flicker]

I think Xal'Atath is just helping Iridikron to achieve both their goals.
Xal'Atath: to make a void-infused Titan
Iridikron: to purge titan corruption from Azeroth.

[pulsar minnow]

I imagine Azeroth is essentially a blank slate. She can be manipulated into any cosmology. Void, Order, etc…

[harsh mason]

Literally actual places, I meant it. That is, for example, in ulduar, you can use a hammer during timewalk. The rest of the places are actual all the time

[glass flicker]

Maybe Azeroth itself can blow out from the bum of the planet, where we've never been, and leave a huge Maelstrom 2.5 there that we go explore.

[harsh mason]

That is, Ulduz should also be such a place

Locations, dungeon or raid

[upper pasture]

But like that’s not relevant to DF

[glass flicker]

11.0: World of Warcraft: The Great Dark
12.0: World of Warcraft: Across the Cosmos

[upper pasture]

The way I see it is Uldaz is either coming in a patch that’s not announced OR it has been cut

[vernal juniper]

servers down^

?*

[harsh mason]

one more :if we can't visit this place in the game, why leave it in the description?

[glass flicker]

I think Uldaz is the final raid of DF.

We fight Iridikron, Xal'Atath and Galakrond.

[upper pasture]

because it's planned for the future?

[glass flicker]

But the former two get away.

[upper pasture]

because getting tid bits of lore and spoilers is what keeps some of the community alive?

[glass flicker]

Also speculation, Dan.

[upper pasture]

because they aren't going to update an item to show that they've cut content DURING said content

no shit it's speculation lol

[pulsar minnow]

I’d imagine Uldaz was mentioned just so we have some Titan stuff to explore if they ever wanna make use of it

In a future content release

[harsh mason]

That's why I wrote: " All this hints (for me personally, there are no proofs at the moment) that there will be something related to Titans in DF yet"

[upper pasture]

please no

[pulsar minnow]

3 perfectly good villains thrown out in a single patch would not feel good

Especially when xal atath has had literally zero development

[glass flicker]

That's assuming the expansion will only have three raids, mind you.

Which I'm pretty confident about.

[upper pasture]

this has been great. i've got a cpu to figure out why it's overheating. have fun

[harsh mason]

But personally, I don't see the point of using a hammer from the past exp in the location of the next exp. Like... it's like using Azzinoth's blades in the ICC

[upper pasture]

i never said it's going to be in the next expansion. i said it's either in announced patch (10.x) or it's been cut from the game

[harsh mason]

Well... then they could delete those names.

[upper pasture]

they won't because it will "show face" of them cutting content during that expansion and people would kick and scream that blizzard is dying

[harsh mason]

And I also have a theory that Iridikron wants to "remove" the soul of Azeroth from the shell of the planet. And if Uldaz is an analog of Antorus, then…

[pulsar minnow]

By that logic, I don’t see much use in mentioning Uldaz in BFA if they didn’t use it in that expansion

[harsh mason]

Because when he says that Titans only need this world, I think that he has not a planet, but a soul. Since the Titans took care of the soul first of all

[harsh mason]

Well... they didn't use it. The players who go to m+ already found out on the first day in which locations the hammer will work. Uldaz is not among these locations

[pulsar minnow]

Exactly. They can mention stuff. Doesn’t mean they have to use it immediately

[harsh mason]

And as far as I remember, Uldaz was mentioned in the Bfa in the context that everything is fine there and our help is not required (when Nzoth attacked specific places)

[harsh mason]

This is not an lore description, it is a description of an ability.

Like, it's a little different. The point is that the hammer's ability only works in specific places. That's why I say, what's the point of writing the name of a place where YOU can use the hammer's ability, but you can't visit the place itself

I'm not saying that "it's a proof that we will get in Uldaz"

I just wrote that, in fact, the weapon works in a place (works as a game mechanic) that we can't get in

[pulsar minnow]

https://x.com/scarizardplays/status/1672065255508410370?s=46&t=zpCZJTn5oMkjXo-yH5rLYg

benoit blanka (@ScarizardPlays)

now that it’s on PTR here it is. my favorite idiot joke lmao

Likes

116

Twitter · Jun 23, 2023, 2:13 AM

-The dev who made the weapon

https://x.com/scarizardplays/status/1672306670087860225?s=46&t=zpCZJTn5oMkjXo-yH5rLYg

benoit blanka (@ScarizardPlays)

@ValnarDragoness oh the things that are funny to me I don’t expect to be funny to anyone else but:

• has a powerful ability that is restricted to work in basically no endgame content
• uld everything
• at least one of these places players have never been to/heard of before

Twitter · Jun 23, 2023, 6:12 PM

It’s a joke

[upper pasture]

hmm....uld everything (IE: A-Z) ULDAZ

[pulsar minnow]

Also, (Old as… = Uldaz)

[harsh mason]

Well... it's still a list of places for endgame content

Well for m+

[upper pasture]

idk, if it doesn't exist in game why add that we've never been there or have heard about it. it's likely it's just coming "soon" TM

[harsh mason]

This works in underrot and Vortex Pinnacle

[dense plover]

whats the hall of valor called?

is that a titan facility?

also there are titan facilities in MoP dungeons that arent named

and just because it doesnt work there, doesnt mean it isnt that place

it just might not be coded XD

especially because the person who makes a weapon likely doesnt write lore

[jade basalt]

It's Ulduar, or rather it was one of the wings of Ulduar

It's also called 'Valhalas'

But not an Uld- facility, no

[dense plover]

what about the stuff in the vale in pandaria?

[subtle oar]

engine of nalak'sha

[dense plover]

but like, the actual facility

[harsh mason]

There is no question of lore. He may have written it as a joke, but in fact the locations listed in the description of the ability are endgame content (and what a coincidence that it is the dungeons from the old exp in which the hammer works that have become part of the rotation in m+)

[subtle oar]

That is it. That is what Ra called it

[dense plover]

hmmm

i still dont see it being relevant for anything outside of this expac tho

so IF its gonna show up, its gonna be in 10.2 or 10.3

no reason to design a weapon for content people wont use it in

could be that the emerald dream facility is uldaz

[subtle oar]

Its not meant for content. The flavor text/MS/Holy on hit is simply just for lore purposes.

[jade basalt]

It's not necessarily something that already exists. It could be a name they threw and that they'll bank on eventually one day.

In BFA the Maiden mentioned a a bunch of titan facilities, and threw in two additional names: Uldorus, Uldaz.

Years later they added a new titan facility (Tyrhold) and thought, "well, that could be Uldorus!".

Could be the same for Uldaz. Scarizard saw Uldaz was mentioned in the lore and therefore may have just added it to his item description. Hence why he calls it a stupid item. Maybe one day it'll be a thing. But it doesn't mean there are certain, definite plans currently.

[silent urchin]

build is out

[warm topaz]

hunters getting a raid buff

[silent urchin]

ooh I can login without crashing this week

on lowgraphics, at least

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/status/1707160504995873120/photo/1

Ellie - might post spoilers-ish 💙 (@keyboardturn)

INV_Helm_Plate_Crusader_C_01 now has a model

Twitter · Sep 27, 2023, 10:29 PM

thoughts?

[harsh mason]

My girl

Apparently she was tired of sitting in a tavern in azure span for a whole year

[harsh mason]

Uldaz set

Sorry

[dense plover]

wasnt she relevant in the blue dragon questline too?

[harsh mason]

She arrived with Kalesgos at 10.0 and was sitting in the tavern all the time

I think blizz should have paid more attention to her, lol, people really didn't notice her

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1707164474967277940

MrGM (@MrGMYT)

The "Jeweled Copper Scarab" and the "Deathbringer's Shadowcycle" have been added in the latest 10.2 build with a source listed as the Trading Post

Twitter · Sep 27, 2023, 10:45 PM

[dense plover]

ah ok

maybe theme months?

cuz theres a bunch of scarab stuff

motorcycle seems like a monthly reward

[warm topaz]

that is not his look i think wait

https://twitter.com/WarcraftMounts/status/1705502193552671136

Warcraft Mounts (@WarcraftMounts)

Currently taking pics of the new 10.2 mount models and realised the "fel reaver mount" appearances were configured badly in the game appearance database.

The 2 glow textures were swapped in all 3 colours. They should look like right image but instead look a little odd (left).

Likes

203

Twitter · Sep 23, 2023, 8:39 AM

[harsh mason]

https://x.com/wowhead/status/1707156927275286908?s=46&t=JnHiP_kKibjOKbPmUfJMWQ

Wowhead💙 (@Wowhead)

Hunters are getting a raid buff in Patch 10.2!

#Dragonflight #Warcraft

https://t.co/JPe6WeiVaG

Likes

126

Twitter · Sep 27, 2023, 10:15 PM

After 9 years

[upper pasture]

What a great buff eyeroll

[deep pawn]

Oh gods, please tell me it's not something they apply every mob

[upper pasture]

hunter's mark still needs to be applied to each mob and it's only a damage increase (5%) while the mob has 80% or more health

[deep pawn]

Ughhh

[deep pawn]

Chatter about this patch still seems muted

[dense plover]

well the fact that every time they drop a new one, i get teleported out and lose the whimsydrake makes it hard to test

plus i still cant copy my main

also hard to have thoughts on the multiplayer stuff - not enough players

and the story is locked off still

[uncut vault]

I doubt they'll be testing the rest of the campaign, since the rest is likely to involve the raid

[molten niche]

I can see 10.2 launching end of october and 2 weeks later season 3 start

[dense plover]

they said they wouldnt

but thats a big chunk of players not playing

[dense plover]

honestly thats about right

might be a BIT earlier

definitely before hallow's end

they added a bunch of lift currents

[molten niche]

i doubt before hallows end cuz hallows end starts like 2nd week of october. and they wont have season 3 start during blizzcon

[dense plover]

the sources for the sets are implemented

idk if the glyphs were in last build, but theyre definitely in now

load times between plains and dream are MUCH faster

[thin warren]

Yay

What is the rate to trade lower tier crests for higher ones?

Is that known yet?

[silent urchin]

Hadn't seen the vendor for that yet

The vendor has downgrading, which is 1:1

maybe the exchange for upgrading isn't visible, they mentioned you need a certain ilvl for it

[thin warren]

ahah

owyeah, it's a new season, so that goes up

yeh, they mentioned you need to be at the maximum iLvl that the lower tier can achieve, then you can exchange them for the next one

the amount of whelpcrests i sold 😄

now i'm also full on drake ones

[warm topaz]

what happened with Metzen when he left

like, he left for healthy reasons right?

[silent urchin]

The official line was pretty much that he was just retiring and wanting to spend more time with his family, cause he was a bit of a workaholic

ofc he kept doing various projects so I'm not sure how successful he was at that

[deep pawn]

I'm still going for 11/5 patch, 11/12 season

Especially if they're bringing members of RWF guilds to Blizzcon on stage

The only other option is patch 10/17, raid 10/24 but tuned such it only lasts 8 days

They can't do patch before Blizzcon and start raid the week of or directly after because of travel time

[harsh mason]

Health+ Family+ Draenor

But personally, I think the main reason is Draenor. And it's not about the plot, but the fact that they had conflicts inside the team there (according to rumors).

Like because Metzen wanted to do things in draenor, others thought it would turn out shit. As a result, they did not have time to do anything other than what was ready

[deep pawn]

Didn't Metzen want a second expansion set in Draenor set in the Ogre continent?

[sage hornet]

Hey, can someone maybe help me ? everytime I try to copy ma EU characters to PTR, it says Copy failed

[silent urchin]

I thought it was announced as a patch thing, but farahlon was mentioned in the initial blizzcon reveal of draenor

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah, he had burnout

He was in charge of a bunch of different things at Blizzard, from WoW to Overwatch and whatnot. He left shortly after Overwatch and Legion launched

Now he’s just responsible for WoW stuff so this should be a lot better for him

[harsh mason]

I still can't understand how it happened that after the victory on Guldan Illidan and Tyrand are standing a METER apart from each other and they don't even have a hint of dialogue. So in general, all the NPCs for some reason just stand and are silent, as if they forgot to write phrases. I just went through the raid and it's very striking

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah it’s weird but Illidan did get his letter to Tyrande in the end after he blasted off into space

That said, did Illidan have a single line to Malfurion in Legion? I know he had a letter to him too but wouldn’t it have made sense to have them reconcile?

[harsh mason]

Yes, they've never talked to each other like that. In fact, Illidan is appears just to fight demons and stay in cosmos. The same situation as with Alex and Ysera, but here they will at least meet at 10.2

[pulsar minnow]

New blizzcon mount

[warm topaz]

elemental expansion confirmed

just like 2019 bear expansion confirmed

[pulsar minnow]

100%

Wrath of the Lich Bear confirmed

[warm topaz]

you know what makes sense?

"Five Lanterns Now Darkened, The Flame They Seek Shall Light the Masters Way."

https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/1707444643384713333

Martin (@Marlamin)

BlizzCon demo zone (kiosk mode) on PTR was changed from Bastion (last demo) to the Emerald Dream and I was assuming this was a placeholder for whatever the 11.0 intro zone was going to be... but maybe not?
I guess they can show off 10.2(.x?) and 11.0 at the same time, right?

Twitter · Sep 28, 2023, 5:18 PM

[uncut lintel]

IS THAT AN ACTUAL DRUID SET

HOW IS IT BETTER THAN THE RAID SET

[tropic trail]

That looks like air elemental stuff. It reminds me of Skywall in Uldum

[harsh mason]

It looks like new frost elements from DF, but only in armor

[tropic trail]

Please don't be an elemental expansion

We don't need that right after primal stuff

[warm topaz]

primal thing was just on 10.0

[harsh mason]

I think it's not to exp at all. It's like, well... blizzard, so the frost elemental

[dry pumice]

But earth shaman tank would be an awesome addition in an elemental expansion

[tropic trail]

They have been used to give small hints to expansions before

Not always the case

But for example Blizzcon 2017

[upper lantern]

Yeah all the open world sets look awesome and very druidy

[harsh mason]

Well, bfa was not about ships expansion explicitly. Like, maybe there will be elementals(as they are in DF).

[tropic trail]

I did say small hints. The skyships are a tool of war, we got a war expansion

[uncut lintel]

omg omgo gom omswafseoifse

[upper pasture]

All the PvP tints of the world sets are amazing

They also switched the heroic mage set color with with the elite PvP set and now all hopes of getting it are dashed

[uncut lintel]

can u get the pvp tints easy?

or u still gotta do rated pvp? and not rgb

rbg*

[upper lantern]

There are 2 pvp tints. Standard and elite. For elite unfortunately you gotta do solo shuffle/arena/rbg

Though they're introducing a new solo rbg thing apparently

solo rbg queue

[uncut lintel]

wel i dont pvp and i dont do elite but random que battleground can u get the standard one from that?

[upper lantern]

Yeah you can get the non-elite set through conquest points 😄

[upper pasture]

Elite is limited and a lot harder to get than conquest color 😦

[upper lantern]

just do bg queues and weekly pvp quests for the standard pvp set

[upper lantern]

Yeah 😦

[upper pasture]

I can wait for the conquest color in 11.0 but sadly not the elite lol

[dense plover]

I agree. No idea why it’s better but I agree it is

BlizzCon mount looks cool. Unfortunately the BlizzCon mount isn’t much of an indicator for the next expac

[tropic trail]

It usually (keyword usually) has something to do with the expac atleast

[upper pasture]

I mean, usually has something that fits in the game

[pulsar minnow]

It seems to match the same theme of the bear they released a couple years ago

I don’t think it’s much to look into. Just another “blizzard” themed mount where it’s just a literal ice elemental

Maybe we’ll see an elemental or two next expansion (we do pretty much every expansion) but I don’t think it’s indicative of the expansions larger theme

[deep pawn]

Mounts for the virtual ticket have actually been pretty rare

This one does look cool though

Was the big Blizzcon bear the reward pre wrath?

[deep pawn]

actually doing tattoos at Blizzcon sounds so stupid

[warm topaz]

why?

[deep pawn]

just does, it's a specific d4 tattoo and you're doing it in a situation where you likely won't be thinking logically the entire weekend haha

[upper pasture]

I mean, just because I’m somewhere else doesn’t mean I’m not gonna be thinking logically. If you can’t think logically and be out in public I think that’s more of an issue

Also on top of that there’s no alcohol at the venue so can’t be drinking at the venue

[vernal juniper]

https://twitter.com/algalon_ghost/status/1707503525255676307

Algalon, Enigmatic Observer (@algalon_ghost)

New #Warcraft build found:
Vendor 2 (wowv2)🔐: 10.2.0.51521 --> 10.2.0.51562

Found at: 09-28-2023@09:12:18 UTC

Twitter · Sep 28, 2023, 9:12 PM

[warm topaz]

vendor build

[harsh mason]

Maybe for raid tests

[deep pawn]

Next 5 weeks are good for MMO fans, we'll find out one of the new jobs for Dawntrail later in October and then Blizzcon at the start of November which likely has the expansion reveal. Heaven help us if both are new world other side of the planet deals

[warm topaz]

the best moments are the minutes before the announcement

everyone with the hype over the sky

[silent urchin]

Interesting, some emerald dream stuff early on the trading post

Also parts of that paid medivh set

[upper pasture]

I mean they did say it would be coming later this year in the TP

[jade basalt]

Just been revealed in Blizzard's blog post for October

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23985156

[silent urchin]

Oh, yeah, that's where I was looking

[rain cave]

is that a HD skull staff?

[silent urchin]

Yup, updated one named after the gandling one

or the heirloom version

[warm topaz]

this is from DH feedback forum

how hard is be wow dev

you find with that problem everytime you want to make a change on something

[deep pawn]

Realz also talks a lot more than any other dev. He's allowed to but maybe he's learning why other devs are so quiet

[warm topaz]

maybe he just doesn't care, like,"hey this thing is controversial in the community, thats cool"

[dense plover]

cant please everyone

i fucking love momentum

some people fucking hate it

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[little hound]

I love the emerald dream open world sets

[harsh mason]

This is taken from twitter

Thoughts?

[warm topaz]

this is so old yeah, like, makes sense

I wonder, if we have elementals, how are they going to introduce them?

[pulsar minnow]

they've kinda already started

Smolderon is in Amirdrassil. My guess would be because he wants to no longer be bound to the Firelands (a titan-made subspace thing)

[austere gazelle]

easy fix, remove momentum from the fel rush and put it on other stuff, with the buff uptime now it's perfecly possible to put it on VR for example and it's GG

[dense plover]

My thoughts - Metzen is officially back but has been present at blizz again for a few years now and the next expac we are getting is going to be totally new because of Metzen

I think it’s gonna be really hard to predict what’s coming next as a result

I think we are going somewhere new, I think Iridikron and Xalatath will somehow be relevant. That’s all I can call right now

I think one or both of them will be the final boss of the expac or will win. Metzen is very much the kind of guy that would allow the heroes to lose finally

And if they are doing a world revamp for 12.0, that would be the way to lead into that instead of repeating cataclysm by having a new threat appear and mess stuff up, maybe even give Azeroth some more time via another time skip for stuff to change after next expac so changes can feel more logical

[austere gazelle]

According to the prophecy, Xal will now gather the " Children of the First flesh " and trigger the " awakening ". There is also this mention of Avaloren that is tied with Elune, An'she, the Elemental forces, the Earthmother, and, hinter, a gathering of " Heretics " according to Odyn that are most likely tied with the chest of the secret of azeroth, which hints at a conglomerate of void / fel / order and more.

[dense plover]

I do think elementals being relevant is where we are going

But I think Metzen wouldn’t want to retread cataclysm

So this might be more about US awakening the elementals and helping them integrate with the world instead of them being forced to awaken and going rogue

[austere gazelle]

It's not really cataclysm, it might be a lot more deeper.
Basing my thought on the Eartmother " fairytail" , we will have

• Elune and An'she's lore ( who befriended the Elements, and then commanded them, to seed life on Azeroth )
• Heavy Tauren Lore
• Primordial Azeroth
• Avaloren
• And much more ?

[warm topaz]

maybe we are looking for allies to fight against Iridikron/Void

[warm topaz]

like this

[austere gazelle]

the truth is, Iridikron doesn't care about us. He wants vengeance against the titans. He expects the events who were set in motion to lure them to Azeroth and he's awaiting them with whatever stuff he gots. Its possible that he won't even be a vilain, or will become one when his plan will fail, and we will have to deal with him + the titan's wrath at the same time

[dense plover]

I don’t know if he wants vengeance - I wouldn’t be surprised if he wants Azeroth herself

To remake her in the image of the elementals, like she probably was before the titans arrived

[dense plover]

Pretty sure the elementals didn’t arrive from anywhere and were always on Azeroth

They’re more like native beings that just show up where the elements are present on any planet

Proto Titans are probably elementally aligned at initial existence without outside influence

[ember blaze]

Lost me at the last expansion of wow.

Horde and alliance war?

[warm topaz]

It would be cool if wow ended like it started

[austere gazelle]

I don't get where I said the elemental didn't came from Azeroth ^^
The Earthmother was on Azeroth, gave birth to Mu'sha ( Elune ) and An'she, and both of them befriended the elements that were there, and then commanded them to seed the life on Azeroth.
We can also make a link ( with some logic leap ) that Mu'sha, An'she and the Earthmother were the source of the Spirit Element that made the Elements works and live in harmony. When Mu'sha and An'she were cast out in the cosmos, and the Earthmother went to sleep, then the spirit element vanished and the elements started to fight each others

[dense plover]

Pretty sure the earth mother IS Azeroth fyi

[subtle oar]

She is.

[deep pawn]

So the third event is a new content showcase...

They are already doing the 10.2 dungeons so it has to be the raid right?

But that wouldn't need to be hidden

I can't imagine any 11.0 raids or dungeons are ready

Perhaps it's a 10.2.5 single boss mini raid

[jade basalt]

He's back at Blizzard since December last year so about 10 months

But yes he's been 'actively leading' since a few months back, they just made it official now

[deep pawn]

I'm of the opinion he was waiting for the final acquisition hurdle before making it official

[jade basalt]

Nah 'he' wasn't waiting for anything

Also it's not exactly over

[deep pawn]

Awfully convenient this happened a week after the revised deal was made for the UK then

[jade basalt]

It really impacts absolutely nothing

As I said, he was already in this role. Everyone at Blizzard knew. Players just didn't know.

[deep pawn]

We had already known for a while

[jade basalt]

No

It was announced just a couple days ago

[deep pawn]

They let it slip that Metzen and Holly were announcing the WoW content at Blizzcon

[jade basalt]

That didn't say anything as to his promotion

[deep pawn]

It was evidence he was directly involved in the next expansion in a big way though

More than just an "advisory" way

So a rather believable list of achievements was datamined from the API

Ysera as the yearly murloc pet makes sense if this is her final goodbye, a special dwarven mount though...

I wonder if the other storm rider stuff is player mog or dynamic flight customization

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/16vkop5/it_seems_we_will_get_some_promotional_stuff_not/?sort=new

[warm topaz]

storm raider thing

[deep pawn]

There's been an unskinned gryphon model datamined in 10.2 but may just be encrypted

[warm topaz]

im curious to see this too

[deep pawn]

Khaz Algor has been name dropped a couple times this expansion

If the heroic mount next expansion is tied to them they'll clearly play a big part.

The last 3 heroic mounts were a special dragon(that can't dragon ride 😦 ) the wyrm that ended up being the main flight path mob, and before that special mounts tied to the BfA capitals

[obtuse vine]

Calling it now next expansion is avaloren and the expansion hub will be Khaz Algar

Allows them to do more dwarf assets for the world revamp too

Zaralek cavern was probably testing out the tech for an underground zone - either a literal underground zone the capital will be in or the capital itself will just be underground

[deep pawn]

Khaz's aren't just a single city

Khaz Modan is the entirely of the dwarven lands on the continent of Azeroth

[warm topaz]

what happened with some api thing?

https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/1707864963375661175

Martin (@Marlamin)

Twitter · Sep 29, 2023, 9:08 PM

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1707868273855881671

MrGM (@MrGMYT)

No Pirates. Just loads of Dwarves

Twitter · Sep 29, 2023, 9:21 PM

[obtuse vine]

Ik

Wouldn’t be surprised if blizz just made it a city tho

[deep pawn]

The reddit post I linked was made by a guy doing stuff with blizzards web api

[warm topaz]

oh yeah i didn't see that

cool shit

[deep pawn]

Marlamin and mrgm would recognize legit stuff fast or even confirmed themselves

[warm topaz]

you know what i think, blizz intentionally leaks those stuffs

[deep pawn]

So congrats dwarf fans!

If Avaloren is nature based we might only see Dwarf druids at first

[harsh mason]

Remembering the notes in Uldaman about the "escaped Earthen" who were chased to Avaloren, it makes sense

[pulsar minnow]

Now thrall makes sense as the image for the expac

Earthen - Shamans - Thrall

Maybe it is an elemental expac

[warm topaz]

lately the wowhead account post 1000 times more things than before

[deep pawn]

except the only other examples of storm riders we have are Wildhammer

Falstad does use lightning and wind magic

[deep pawn]

clicks baby

[pulsar minnow]

yeah but its Algarian. I wouldn't be surprised if in the thousands of years they've been separated from the titans they've learned to use storm stuff'

we've seen other earthen do it

honestly, I didn't expect a dwarf expansion, but i'm not against it at all

oh jeez I just realized something. Remember that Gryphons got dragonriding recently in 10.1.7? Yet no other rig did?

Thats absolutely for the Algarian Stormrider

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/LeystTv/status/1707877414565486802

Leyst (@LeystTv)

Call it a leak or whatever you will - but I'm not a big fan. If creators / fan websites were to cover stuff about potential expansions or games they would be blacklisted in a heartbeat. Blizzard is way way too kind.

Twitter · Sep 29, 2023, 9:58 PM

thoughts?

[deep pawn]

Blizzard relies on leak season to build hype every expansion

it's been assumed they do it intentionally even

[warm topaz]

yeah, im agree on that

like the underground thing in 10.0 that said: KEEP THIS ENCRYPTED

but somehow manage to get public

[harsh mason]

I also want to say that blizzard can make fake leaks. Now there will be sooo much of this before of blizzcon

[deep pawn]

some things are legit when it's from their own site

Time to start watching the Brazillian site

or maybe it'll be France this time

No Diablo demos, uh oh

[warm topaz]

why?

[deep pawn]

they leak stuff early in the past

[silent urchin]

I guess no big reveal of that adventure game thing, unless the floor plan is a lie

[deep pawn]

Wowhead confirmed the leak is real, the achieves are encrypted in the live game

[warm topaz]

guys

wow is listed on game pass

[upper pasture]

I’m pretty sure that “leaked” image is fake

[warm topaz]

is in the Microsoft page

i check it by myself

[upper pasture]

Not that I’m against this since it would make it much easier to convince some friends to try out the game

[deep pawn]

Share the source unless you mean the quarterly report thing where they just mentioned everything

[upper pasture]

Idk where you are seeing this

Cause on Xbox’s game pass page it isn’t there

[warm topaz]

https://shorturl.at/fivDL

i short the link

[upper pasture]

Yeah, idk man

[novel zodiac]

gets proofs
Yeah, idk man

[upper pasture]

I’m not clicking someone’s random ass short url that could be anything

Feel free to post the full url or bother someone else

[warm topaz]

omg

[novel zodiac]

Sounds like a PlayStation fanboi to me, if you dont like the game pass just say it lmao

[warm topaz]

no link for today anymore

lol

[upper pasture]

You couldn’t be more from the truth

[warm topaz]

you know, they can announce on blizzcon like, wow on game pass day 1 lmao

[elder otter]

That's been showing on Microsoft for years.

[upper pasture]

They could but it’s unlikely. They have much more to lose from current subs than what they’d gain from GP subs

[warm topaz]

oh really?

sadge

[subtle oar]

What is this in reference too?

[elder otter]

I've had it "followed" for at least that long. It's just a game info page, nothing really of conseuquence.

[warm topaz]

https://account.xbox.com/es-ES/GameInfoHub?titleid=1664882211&activetab=main:mainTab3

i send the link here anyways if someone want to check it

[upper pasture]

Man, if they’d put it on GP and let us use our gold/b.net balance to pay for it I’ll truly never have to pay for WoW or GP again lol

[novel zodiac]

https://twitter.com/Portergauge/status/1707860355802956077

Portergauge 🏳️‍🌈 (@Portergauge)

Full credit to this reddit post who looked through the achievement API to find a bunch of stuff, some obvious Warcraft Rumble crossovers, a Ysera murloc for Blizzcon... and then what seems to be an expansion preorder item name for the mount.

https://t.co/YNCECglIEb

Likes

140

Twitter · Sep 29, 2023, 8:50 PM

[subtle oar]

I would be extremely happy

[elder otter]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-datamined-achievements-hint-at-11-0-wow-expansion-spoilers-335279?webhook

[warm topaz]

yeah @elder otter https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/56xm00/wait_why_is_world_of_warcraft_shown_on_the_xbox/

7 years ago

no more hype 😦

[subtle oar]

Never stop believing

[warm topaz]

i never do!

[subtle oar]

There is no reason for it to not go to GP. They could add it to GP Ultimates line-up

[upper pasture]

I mean, there is one good reason and that’s money

[subtle oar]

Putting it on GP means more money 🤔

[upper pasture]

Not necessarily

[elder otter]

Didn't believe me? lol

[warm topaz]

yeah i did!

but just for sharing the post of reddit

[subtle oar]

For most people, they have to pick and choose sub services. Consolidating WoW into GP not only convinces more ppl to sub into the Xbox eco-system, it brings fresh eyes onto the game, which in turn will result in more revenue for both GP and Blizz thru subs to GP and In-game purchases.

[upper pasture]

And I disagree, I’m willing to bet it would be a loss for MS to do this unless they raise the price of GP ult again to make up for the difference in people who already sub to both. Plus there’s no guarantee that anyone would make extra in game purchases when subbed to GP and as a business they wouldn’t (let’s just hypothetically stay half of the WoW community subs to both) bet half of their monthly revenue of subs to hopefully see a long term player increase AND more purchases in the shop

It just logically doesn’t make sense and doesn’t seem like a smart business move HOWEVER. I am for this regardless

[subtle oar]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/Portergauge/status/1707897404652179540

Portergauge 🏳️‍🌈 (@Portergauge)

This likely also solves the mystery of why gryphons randomly got animation updates to have Advanced Flying animations last patch, despite having no equivalent Dragonriding mount like all the other old models.

Prepping for new gryphon mounts in 11.0 could certainly be why.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 29, 2023, 11:17 PM

this makes a lot of sense now

[subtle oar]

Gib Dynamic flying Noodles!!!

[warm topaz]

dynamic flying ducks and wolfs

[deep pawn]

Ironic as hell that these will be out before 10.2 and thus the mythic mount isn't the FIRST non dragon dynamic mount we get our hands on

[pulsar minnow]

It’s so weird to think we’ll have expansion pre order mounts in a .1 patch

I know DF kinda spread its content out over smaller patches, but wow that feels weird

[deep pawn]

I fully believe Blizzcon was decided not long before it was announced and they had already made their 2023 roadmap

Blizzcon just effed up the pacing where we'd be in 10.2 in October but they can't cause Blizzcon now

the question becomes are we looking at a summer 2024 release to compete with FF14(I pray not) or are we looking at a year drought

[pulsar minnow]

I imagine we’ll get a 10.2.5 and a 10.2.7

So I don’t think a drought but probably a late summer/fall expansion

[subtle oar]

year of dought

The heck?

10.2.5? 10.2.7? 10.3?

[pulsar minnow]

They’ve stated numerous times that 10.2 is not the end of DF’s story, but they haven’t confirmed 10.3

[deep pawn]

For me a year with no new dungeons or raids is a drought. A tiny bit of lore tidbits here and there and maybe version 4.0 of the same world events won't keep me subbed.

At this point I'll be stunned if 10.3 exists

There just isn't time for 10.3 and a beta

[upper pasture]

Uhhh yeah there is?

[subtle oar]

^

[deep pawn]

10.2 comes in November, we're 12 months away from 11.0 at the latest, beta takes 8 months, we'd need 10.3 on ptr before christmas

[subtle oar]

The first year of DF isn't even over. WTF

[upper pasture]

Why do “betas take 8 months”?

[subtle oar]

"OMG NO 10.3?!"

[deep pawn]

that's on the short end, they often take a year

[subtle oar]

???????

[upper pasture]

Do you know if they are already testing alpha gameplay internally?

[subtle oar]

nO?

The heck are you pulling these numbers from, Kyle?

[deep pawn]

19 damn years of playing this game?

[upper pasture]

Honestly I’m not sure

[subtle oar]

Yeah no, Kyle

[upper pasture]

So, every beta was 8 months long?

[deep pawn]

DF was a notoriously short beta and even then it was a long time

[subtle oar]

Or somehow a full year?

[deep pawn]

We've had more year long gaps than not

ICC, Dragon Soul, Siege all lasted 11-13 months

[upper pasture]

And would you look at that DF has been the complete opposite

[subtle oar]

Old poor management.