beta-ptr-spoilers

[dense plover]

but ya know, lets just doom and gloom and yell about how 10.2 is the fucking end - because thats a really educated guess /s

🙄

new 10.1.7 patch on vendor3

probably new ptr build tomorrow

[deep pawn]

People aren't assuming 10.1.7 comes before 9/19

[upper pasture]

why wouldnt we get 4 seasons?

[deep pawn]

there's been a persistent rumor from people who say they have seen some plans that this expac and shadowlands was always planned as 3 raids

[dense plover]

what? how

they said they want heroic versions of the dungeon out for long enough for everyone to see it b/c the story matters

also, it clearly implies in the new road map its coming BEFORE fall

notice how the Fall is now inbetween the 2?

10.1.7 is coming - my guess, 2nd week of august

and 10.2 is coming end of sept, early october

10.1.7 is like 90% finished - just needs testing and bug fixes

and i suspect theyll start testing 10.2 within 2 weeks

[short prism]

we still have winter for sure

[deep pawn]

Hopefully Dreamsurges are better than Time Rifts testing

[dense plover]

and next year

[short prism]

yup

[dense plover]

the problem with lag is because there arent enough people on ptr

[short prism]

spring and summer

then 11.0 in the fall

[dense plover]

my guess is 10.3 march-may

[deep pawn]

People are assuming 10.1.7 and 10.2 are "fall" so between 9/20 and 12/21

[dense plover]

no way season 2 takes that long

that would be double the length of S1

[short prism]

that’s a perfect amt of time for 10.2.5, 10.2.7, 10.3 and 10.3.5 perhaps

[dense plover]

^^^^

this

[upper pasture]

wasn't shadowlands 3 raids and 4 seasons why would DF be the same way?

wouldn't*

[short prism]

fall ends 11/30

[deep pawn]

Cause on that roadmap for example, 10.0.7 Came out March 21st the first day of Spring

[dense plover]

because they quit shadowlands early

they were VERY clear when discussing Dragonflight - 3 major patches

[upper pasture]

we still had two years of SLs tho

[deep pawn]

No, Blizzard uses solar seasons. The first day of winter for them is the winter solstice.

[upper pasture]

we still gonna have 2 years of DF

[dense plover]

that doesnt change the patch hypothesis dates

10.3 could absolutely arrive in spring

and then 11.0 in fall next year

[deep pawn]

There's some going "The devs are too burnt out from 2 month patch cadence, they can't handle another year and deliver an expac. Players demanding 4 raids are just ungrateful"

[dense plover]

fuck those people

theyre wrong

and once 10.1.7 hits release, im sure the roadmap will be updated with 10.3

[upper pasture]

10.3 should be a best of season and we should be happy with that

[short prism]

they like quadrupled their team going into df

[dense plover]

why?

why settle for less?

[upper pasture]

most of people that played or returned in S4 loved it?

[dense plover]

especially when they have a much larger team

[deep pawn]

I don't agree. Dragonflight having just 3 raids, smaller raids than they used to in the past would be extremely disappointing

[dense plover]

they could do that for season 5

[short prism]

they were bleeding talent recently due to bobby kotick shenanigans but with the deal near closing that’ll prolly end soon

[dense plover]

^^^

i 100% expect a better WFH policy under microsoft

its the 1 thing theyve been allowing across all of their offices

theyre one of the only major tech companies NOT pushing for a RTO

[short prism]

i 100% believe the “work around” for lay offs was force a RTO while having a hiring pause

[deep pawn]

But yeah, going off the roadmap, Forbidden Reach didn't come out til the end of March, Fury Incarnate on that same part of "fall" would be the end of September. I'd personally prefer an October season 3, but I don't know if we get it.

[dense plover]

it depends on when they start testing 10.2

[short prism]

i don’t see us only having one more major patch for a year

[dense plover]

if they start testing this month or early next month, its absolutely in reach

[deep pawn]

People are also going off the fact 10.1.7 has Brewfest updates to not come til then

[short prism]

not with the patch cadence, they would’ve sparsed them out

[dense plover]

brewfest starts in september tbf

so if 10.2 was october, it couldnt have the brewfest stuff

[deep pawn]

I'd agree, but who knows. Wouldn't be the first time Blizzard gets over ambitious first year of an expac and then enters a drought, but a 10.2 drough would be miserable.

[short prism]

10.1.7 also has christmas assets

[dense plover]

the earliest they can release the expac would be august of 2024

[short prism]

and hallow’s end assets

[dense plover]

that would literally RUIN the legacy of dragonflight

theres a 0% chance we dont have a 3rd major patch

[deep pawn]

Legion had a fast paced year and then Antorus lasted for ever, but even Legion had 4 raids, a megadungeon, and added 2 new dungeons

[short prism]

the map for hallow’s end also got updated in 10.1.7

[dense plover]

antorus didnt last that long

[short prism]

we are looking at at LEAST 10.2 and 10.3

[dense plover]

it was 11 months

[short prism]

i don’t believe that we won’t have a 10.3

[dense plover]

^^^^ same

i dont think we will have more than 10.3 for major patches tho

[short prism]

even bfa had a 9.3.5 haha

[dense plover]

theyve been clear that what they WANT is 3 major content updates

[deep pawn]

11 months is basically a year

[dense plover]

they cut shadowlands short because people HATED it

even I unsubbed for a bit

it sucked

the fucking 'titans are robots' shit, literally made me quit

[short prism]

i think at most, if we’re lucky, we might see a special new kind of 10.3.7 patch to lead into the next expac a little easier

[dense plover]

i would love to see some FFXIV style storybuilding

[deep pawn]

(The person who swears they saw the patch roadmap for Shadowlands says 3 raids was always the plan) I did say if that was the case their story planning was absolutely horrendous

[dense plover]

i dont think they had much story planning

[short prism]

the current msq writing team very clearly has FFXIV influences imo

[dense plover]

half the main story devs were the awful nasty fucks who got fired

[deep pawn]

if only they had the ability to get into ANY sort of depth

The Dragonflight story is nice but so exceptionally shallow

[dense plover]

its a tradeoff

[short prism]

you really can’t compare shadowlands development to df development

[dense plover]

we get fancy cutscenes

and voice acting

jesus christ 14's lack of voice acting is infuriating

[short prism]

SL took place during the height of covid and then the height of their lawsuit lol

[dense plover]

so much text and no voice acting

like - tomorrow has all the manderville quests and legendary weapon upgrades

[deep pawn]

Eh? 14 has a ton of voice acting. In fact the unvoiced cutscenes are rarer than ever.

[short prism]

yeah that’s one thing i always think ab

[dense plover]

not a single line of dialogue tomorrow will be voiced

[short prism]

the wow team rn is essentially new

[dense plover]

vs 10.1.5, multiple major cinematics and cutscenes all with voice acting

in 14 ONLY the MSQ is voiced

nothing else

not the raids and their cinematics

[deep pawn]

I mean side content doesn't need to be voiced in my opinion if it means we get deeper main story stuff

[short prism]

i love that the wow team has been keeping shit encrypted better

that surprise vyranoth and alextrasza cutscene

[dense plover]

not the legendary quests and their cinematics

[short prism]

that was so crazy good

[dense plover]

14 has a ton of dialogue but having to read it yourself is fucking exhausting

especially when they HAVE voice actors for those characters

[deep pawn]

I did tell the person who's certain that there's no 10.3 that if Blizzard did announce that at Blizzcon this year it'd go over just as well as Diablo Immortal. They just said some players are too entitled.

[dense plover]

lol

thats an apologist dumb attitude

i bet they announce 10.3 before blizzcon

im gonna go for the night but im convinced we get a 3rd major patch

[short prism]

^^^

[deep pawn]

I figure we get both 10.3 and 11.0 announced at blizzcon

[short prism]

i think we’ll get a new roadmap with 10.2 launch

we might not get a like patch name them but it’ll be confirmed for a block then

[deep pawn]

My ideal world is 10/3 patch, 10/10 raid, race over by the 24th and then everyone can go to Blizzcon to celebrate the expac announce

[short prism]

then at blizzcon they give us the patch name, a teaser for the content, and maybe show off some non-spoiler content from it like if any class is being added to a race or new customization

[deep pawn]

Even at 10/10 for the raid this season will be like 3 weeks longer than season 1

[short prism]

then 11.0 announcement

[deep pawn]

And this season people cleared content much faster

[plain violet]

And tomorrow, update of the PTR! Eager to see what's new.

I still couldn't enter the dreamsurges, the phase 1 were locked.and resetting before getting to phase 2.

[deep pawn]

part of me hopes they fix Time Rifts before worrying too mcuh about Dreamsurges haha

[plain violet]

xD

You got a point, they are way too much bugged.

[uncut vault]

Would be around the same length as season 1, in fairness

they probably weren't expecting gearing to be this fast during their mapping out of the xpac

season 2 had a lot less longevity than anticipated

[deep pawn]

nah, if it was season 1 length we'd have season 3 mid september

November would be a solid month and a half longer

[uncut vault]

late november would be about a week longer lol

two to stretch it, which I don't think is that bad considering we got two proper content patches between major ones rather than just one

More than happy for it to be earlier though

[deep pawn]

Season 1 was 147 days. 147 days after the start of season 2 would be exactly 10/3/23 which would require the patch to be 9/26

Now it can be longer

but post Blizzcon would be at minimum 4 weeks longer

[harsh mason]

And what was there?

[subtle oar]

I don't believe this person you talked to is real or actually has any insight at all and is just lying to you, confirming your own biases

[sleek solar]

Please tell me the Lightforged draenei horn options will become available to regular draenei, when the Manari options are here

[harsh mason]

Who even said this is the latest patch?????

I just can't understand why all this talk when the roadmap is shown specifically for 2023 and not the entire expansion

10.2 will be released BEFORE 2024( barring unforeseen circumstances of course).

[warm topaz]

you never know, is not crazy to think that 10.2 is the last tier of this expansion

neither is crazy to think that there will be 10.3

[harsh mason]

And like 10.2.5 or 10.2.7 aren't patches, right?

[warm topaz]

10.2.5 and 10.2.7 are part of 10.2 cycle

like for me 10.1 is 10.1.5 and 10.1.7 too

thats what i meant with 10.2 being the last tier

[harsh mason]

Who said that? The cleaning lady from blizzard?

What are these conclusions based on? We have a roadmap for 2023, the end. What happens in 2024, you don't know.

[warm topaz]

i'm just speculating man, it's not a statement or a confirmation

bc is fun

[harsh mason]

No offence, but it feels like people just can't get into logic. Draenor had 1 major patch (since 6.1 is considered a patch, it's nonsense) because from the very beginning the development went to shit. In SL, covid made adjustments( covid specifically, nothing else). That's why 9.2 was a combination of two patches.

These were exceptions that were clear and obvious from the moment of launch( well almost). Now at this point there is no reason why they would suddenly decide to end DF on 10.2 because, mind you, by some logic they should announce a new expansion at blizzcon

[harsh mason]

No, it's not fun, as this has been heard from the same person for months now. It's no longer speculation

[warm topaz]

dude

ah

whatever

have a nice day

[plain violet]

._.

[sleek solar]

Jesus xD

[deep pawn]

No, I'm absolutely on the side there should be a 10.3 and that an expansion that only has 3 raids without being called WoD or Shadowlands would be a massive disappointment

[harsh mason]

They can make 10 raids, this will not affect the number of patches in any way. They can make 10 patches and 3 raids.

In SL, it would be easy to make 6 raids (5 bosses each), would that change something?

Moreover, for Sepulcher it was as planned (that these are 2 different raids), this is literally from the word. Since they made Anduin as the final boss of one raid, and Zovaal as the other

[deep pawn]

I thought I had heard that too but nope, apparently always intended lol

And by number of raids I mean tiers.

Like emerald nightmare was an intro raid, but was still a full raid

Or another way is "total number of bosses" for an expac

[tulip sun]

@uncut vault If you did the human heritage, Westfall is updated a bit. On the Saldean farm there is a lot.of updates and people to talk to

[deep pawn]

MrGM is messing around with datamining

There's a bunch of stuff happening with Scarlet Monastery

And there's 3 new dungeon bosses tied to a map that's not in game yet

[tulip sun]

I imagine forsaken

The Westfall stuff is on live

[deep pawn]

Or they're adding back the classic versions like Scholo

[uncut vault]

Oh nice, thanks for the tip

[short prism]

or the hallow’s end update

[crystal pond]

100% its updating because of forsaken

because judging by what was found earlier Scarlet Crusade still hate any undead and anyone who interacts with the undead
And then we getting forsaken heritage questline

[short prism]

i still think it’s gonna be for the holiday, seeing how much of those assets were in 10.1.7. the rest of the monastery isn’t updated with any of that, it’s only the courtyard that HE would take place in

i hope it’s not for the forsaken bc it feels like if they’re gonna have some focus on the remaining scarlets, that means the forsaken heritage would be calia focused, since the only plot hook we have w/ the remaining scarlets is that they have long lost child

[deep pawn]

It's probably both

they're updating the horseman fight AND they're adding old SM back

[ember blaze]

SM new s3 dungeon? 👀

[deep pawn]

they moved a bunch of the classic SM bosses into a new instance

which seems like Old Scholo treatment

[ember blaze]

whats that

[deep pawn]

You can go back and get a bunch of stuff from classic Scholomance now

[deep pawn]

ptr down?

[ionic terrace]

yes

[deep pawn]

woo, build inc then

[dense plover]

makes sense

went on vendor yesterday

[deep pawn]

MrPeach774, do you think the 3 dungeon encounters tied to a new zone that's not in yet could be a 10.2 dungeon?

[dense plover]

uh

what?

i need more info

like IDs, data, etc

[warm topaz]

check MRGM tweet!

[dense plover]

they havent done a patch non-mega dungeon since legion

[warm topaz]

i think he posted it

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1681337593340870669/photo/1

MrGM (@MrGMYT)

In the 10.1.7 data file "DungeonEncounter" they added 3 bosses to the MapID "1963" which is a Map that doesn't seem to exist in the files.

The 3 Bosses are;
🔸 Light Knight
🔸 Dimension Breaker
🔸 The Devourer

Any idea what this could possibly be?

Likes

149

Twitter · Jul 18, 2023, 4:18 PM

here it is! @dense plover

[dense plover]

hmmm

[uncut vault]

I can get the boss pictures in a sec

they arent really related at all

[dense plover]

they could be part of the dreamsurge stuff

or they could be unrelated to anything

or maybe the draenei side quest

being in the dungeonencounter table i dont THINK excludes you from instanced scenarios

[dense plover]

wtf?

[warm topaz]

oh i have seen those, you posted them yesterday right?

[dense plover]

what a hodge podge

uh

maybe more bronze dragon stuff is coming?

[silent urchin]

I saw some speculation about brawlers guild, together with that fortnite boss

[dense plover]

brawlers guild could work - though theyre a bit out there for that

maybe something related?

[subtle oar]

The devourer looks fucking AMAZING

[deep pawn]

it's just Elerethe from Emerald Nightmare

could be placeholder models waiting for art.

Imagine if it's a void naaru and a Shadowlands devourers

[silent urchin]

The old models were part of why people thought brawlers

a new dungeon would definitely have new models

but reused stuff was pretty much the whole of brawlers

although placeholder a possibility, as you say

names quite possibly placeholder too, if so

[dense plover]

would be weird for it to be in 10.1.7 at all tbh

[deep pawn]

Unless it's just early

I think if you make the Light Knight a different color, and the Devourer either void or fiery it fits

[deep pawn]

10.1.5 is updating first haha

[silent urchin]

very late build if it is coming, I suspect it may be tomorrow at this point

[subtle oar]

I hope these have nothing to do with the Brawlers guild

[deep pawn]

small notes

not much at all, this patch looks very small

[dense plover]

oh

challenge courses are in

neat

"How well can you fare without resource generation?" - wonder what this means

like - does it not have boosts or do your abilities not work?

[deep pawn]

those green clouds that give vigor

none of them

[dense plover]

hopefully they fixed bugs

those wont be in the ptr patch notes

same with like - any changes they make to content that was available in last ptr

now we need them to actually push the build

[dusk flame]

hey, hardcore ptr still going?

when official hardcore will launch?

no news about it?

is it still max lvl 30 or its 60 now?

[jade basalt]

Sounds like you don't regenerate vigor

[deep pawn]

you do through thrill, but no more regen orbs

small builds like this make me think there's no way this takes 2 months to test

[glass flicker]

I would like that explorer set recolor to be awarded from archeology. But with how it has two color variants, I wouldn't be surprised if it were a Brawler's Guild transmog.

[dense plover]

well yeah - 10.0.7 only took a month

and again, most of the content was IN last build

[deep pawn]

I guess some are holding out hope for a spec refresh but doesn't seem like it's coming

[dense plover]

probably not before 10.2 no

10.1.7 is a holdover content patch

essentially splitting off some of what wouldve been in 10.1.5 allows them to have more content dripfed without it feeling as bad

especially if the content relies on the story in the previous stuff

i bet we are gonna have the zone marker for dreamsurges this week tho

fuck copy is still failing wtf

[deep pawn]

didn't the ret rework come in 10.0.7?

[dense plover]

im not saying they cant

im just saying i dont think they will

its really hard to test anything when i cant copy a character with progress

fuck me

what a waste of a build

i cant even test

[deep pawn]

I was able to copy a character last build

just wasn't anything interesting to test

[dense plover]

skybox is working

weird plant gave 4 dreamsurge coalesence

clicked and it started an event

[deep pawn]

hmm, fiery dream

[dense plover]

models are broken

heal buff and portal icon

[deep pawn]

there's the firebird

was hoping it'd be bigger. 😄

[dense plover]

it really isnt working

this is a fucking mess

broken models, broken drops, cant copy so my ilvl is shit

[deep pawn]

I mean it's not going to be out for a bit

[dense plover]

little helper

PORTABLE AUCTION HOUSE

YOOOOO

he changes color randomly

big portal is a big event

[deep pawn]

holy crap

is he permanent?

[dense plover]

for 30 min?

hes one of the buffs

[deep pawn]

aww

aww, phooey

the broom is trading post, at least that means it'll be for sure to get

vs random event drop

[tulip sun]

@dense plover Last week they said the draenei quest was in but the draenei characters had to be temporarily disabled

They're up now

Any sign of the quest?

[deep pawn]

looks like it'll be the october reward which is a cool one

Feats of Strength
Bring Me The Head of... Oh Wait Kill the Headless Horseman. 10 points. Killed the Headless Horseman prior to the 2023 holiday refresh.

oh snap

so he may still be repalced with Eve

A Cleansing Fire (New) Defeat the Headless Horseman.
Don't Lose Your Head, Man (New) Defeat any version of the Headless Horseman. 10 points.
Kickin' With the Wick (New) Defeat the Headless Horseman while cursed by all four wicker men. 10 points.

no, just... difficulties?

[uncut vault]

I can hear the community rumbling already

[dense plover]

maybe she is one of the wicker men?

[ember blaze]

didnt ion promise rogue rework in .7?

[deep pawn]

No specific patch

it's whenever Realz can get back to work, family comes first.

[deep pawn]

yeah, your tweet got shared instantly

She's relevant to undead heritage for sure

My personal fanfic is she's leading night elf souls to defend Amirdrassil in 10.2

I wonder what they'll do as a class set/weapon for Evokers

Looks like the eredar customizations are in if you can finish the Draenei quest

Map Areas
Unknown
Dev Map - Quest Training (New) - Music: Zone 100 Waking Shore - Wilds. Pet battle levels: 25-25.

Cute

[ember blaze]

not like we'll get to see it

[ember blaze]

looks like your theory wasnt so crazy after all

[subtle oar]

Not me! Gimme my undead Mommy back~

[lunar hawk]

it seems draenei now they are enabled

[deep pawn]

yeah, can't be bothered to spoil the quest just to see the red skins in game

[uncut vault]

I don’t think the questline is testable anyways

I couldn’t find anything

[lunar hawk]

me too..can't find anything about that quest

[plain violet]

Yeah not testable. :(

[subtle oar]

Good. They shouldn't allow it to be datamined or played until live

[lunar hawk]

at least they could let us try the skin at the barbershop

[subtle oar]

I agree with that

[plain violet]

I am mi figue mi raisin for the questline. It's nice to be a surprise, but if it's bugged and not tested, will be a mess on live, even more if the scenario don't please.

[upper pasture]

Testing is important, if you want it to be a surprise for yourself that’s fine but we they don’t test things that’s how we get buggy stuff or that Alex quest making it to live

[tulip sun]

Huh. Could've sworn they said last week it was going to be

I think the man'ari quest in particular could use testing so players can give insight in how to implement them

[plain violet]

"CHARACTERS

Follow Velen’s prophecy to reveal a new future for some of the draenei people.
    Developers’ note: Draenei have been temporarily disabled to address a bug in this PTR build."

Well at least the patchnote of the PTR let us suppose it could be...

[lunar hawk]

Yeah Is the same like past build

[warm topaz]

i hope they keep it encrypted till patch release

[tulip sun]

I feel like that could be dangerous with the Man'ari quest

[warm topaz]

yeah i feel you, but i think a lot of the chains that they have encrypted until patch release have gone well

some of them better than other ones but i have hope

[deep pawn]

The fringe daily today saying roughly 3 raids is standard is evil.

Used to be 4 blizzard, don't cut content

Imagine MoP with no Throne of Thunder, BfA with no dazar alor, wrath without ulduar.

[harsh mason]

I'd rather imagine wrath with only ulduar and ICC

In fact, there were only 2 real raids in wrath 🤔

[deep pawn]

ToC is actually my first real raid haha

I still think the pvp fight was amazing

But yeah, going down to 3 raids and 2 patches as standard would feel so bad and I'd have to question why the hell did they make season 1 less than 5 months

[harsh mason]

Because there were 2 patches between season 1 and season 2. And because 10.1 is 2 times bigger than the regular x.1 patch

[dense plover]

^

10.1 had a HUGE zone

usually we dont get a zone until .2 and .3

but 10.2 is also going to have a zone

10.3 might be like BfA where they do content in old zones, which i think would be fine if they give those zones dragonriding

hard to say until they announce 10.2, give us a video and update the roadmap

[harsh mason]

To be honest, I have no idea who or what the fringe daily is and why we are again (after a couple of days) discussing the issue of raids, about which we know nothing. I'm about to be insulted again that I'm insulting for simple speculation

Did someone from Blizzard directly say that there would be 3 raids in DF? If not, then it doesn't make sense again (10 times) to discuss it

[subtle oar]

Togc was awesome

<@&299347348847329281>

[harsh mason]

It's more of a mini raid. All of this (except uld and ICC) can be considered as one tier raid

[subtle oar]

Nah. I definitely disagree there

All of Wraths raids were fantastic

[harsh mason]

And Naxx-it was a shame. Such a thing would not be forgiven them in our time

[upper pasture]

it's because of a little line of quest text that says something to the effect of "go beat up the bad guys and you might also have to infiltrate up to 3 strongholds"

while you are handing out quests to others

[harsh mason]

🤨

Okey

[upper pasture]

it's supposed to be a fun silly little daily yet someone will undoubtly take it as gospel

[dense plover]

<@&299347348847329281> plz

[plain violet]

Oh god.

[dense plover]

ban this guy

clearly violates the rules

[plain violet]

Yuuup...

[subtle oar]

I'm surprised these images even made it into thr discord. I thought the bot picked yo stuff like that

[deep pawn]

https://i.redd.it/t15qe98iacdb1.png

this quest today

"2 years and 3 raids" is

[rain cave]

lmao even though we gotta kick him out

that made me laugh

but yeah get him outa here spammer

[subtle oar]

It's a meta joke my guy

[harsh mason]

3 raid tier

That's right, it's always been that way

[deep pawn]

😦

Used to be 4

[upper pasture]

it's a joke,

[dense plover]

^probably this

assuming we get 10.3, dragonflight will be 4 raids

[harsh mason]

The funny thing is that the number of raids does not depend on the number of patches. I have already written that in the same SL they could divide Sepulcher into 2 raids, but it would not change anything. They could do 6 raids of 5 bosses and it wouldn't change anything either

[upper pasture]

i mean, i agree but also the number of patches do relate to the number of raids because they aren't just gonna add something outside of a patch. with that said as long as there's content and stuff to do constantly throughout the 2 years of the expansion who the fuck cares if there's 3/4/8 raids? sure people who only raid will hate that but the game is much more than just raids.

[harsh mason]

If Fyrakk is the final boss in 10.2 and there will be the last raid in 10.2, then I was right about Fyrakk

[deep pawn]

I'm fine if the world content is really engaging, but so far it's... fine.

[harsh mason]

But it is obvious that the battle for the world tree does not pull for the final of DF, given that we still do not have all aspects.

I think it will be like this: in 10.2 Merithra will become an aspect, we will have 5 aspects again, all aspects will bless the new world tree and then there will be 10.3

[rain cave]

honestly vyranoth could be absolutely terrifying if they wanted to pose her as a final boss

fyrakk being powered up is strong but he's nuts, we know he's going to be our first kill of them because of the meta narrative

but the venom in vyranoth's voice

could definetly see her go completely unchained and start a global blizzard like is hinted in the alternate primalist future

[amber beacon]

I'm still trying to work out if Vyranoth is the same VO as moira from OW. They sound so similar

[upper pasture]

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0642444/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t30

that's Moira but she's not credited for Vyranoth so who knows.

[deep pawn]

I wish Blizzard did voice cast credits like FF14

[harsh mason]

I couldn't find her on the list of voice actors for DF

But the voice is similar

[upper pasture]

i found someone who said it could be the same person who did Sindragosa but /shrug

[harsh mason]

It's Lani Minella, but I don't know, it's hard to tell

[silent urchin]

I wish blizz did basically any form of character credits

[short prism]

seems like a meta joke— or, you know, 3 patches of enemy strongholds THEN a final raid somewhere else, idk

[silent urchin]

Did vyranoth have any speaking lines in 10.0? Might not even be listed if not, patches rarely get added to the credits

[upper pasture]

no, the only incarnate we knew by name at launch was raz

[harsh mason]

Yes, in the cinematic after Raszageth's death.

[amber beacon]

Raz's tiny arms still make me giggle

[upper pasture]

so it's unlikely she'd get credit. it was one line i doubt they'd credit someone for that or give just a generic "they helped in DF"

since that was a post launch thing they wouldn't want spoilers leaking on a credit list

[uncut vault]

Andrea Toyias is usually receptive to questions about voice crediting on twitter if you @ her for it

[upper pasture]

but tbf they could totally hire someone to update said list after the fact

[silent urchin]

SAG-AFTRA would require credits, although I don't know if wow would actually be covered by that

[upper pasture]

yes but to get credit for your specific role isn't always required. it could literally just be a "did a thing in expanison"

hence why the IMDB page is full of "actor: (voice)" and not always tied to a character/characters

[harsh mason]

People were so quick to recognise that Fyrakk is voiced by Matt Mercer, but I don't hear him in it at all

[uncut vault]

it's basically the same monster voice they hire him for on most games haha

He's got a huge range but that one is always used

He uses it for ragnaros in HotS and Rexxar in WoW since he got recast

[rain cave]

I love going darin depaul spotting

Everyone always thinks of him as reinhardt

But I only hear socrethar

[mossy meteor]

It depends if the VAs are under that union

Most are though

[dusk flame]

any news when we will have official hardcore?

[sleek solar]

[sleek solar]

Valkorion😍

[normal trail]

If they introduce the harbinger and azshara in this patch as well as the whole void shenanigans it will be probably as a cliffhanger in the amirdrassil patch

Cuz I’ve noticed raids have only been reducing after legion

[plush mortar]

Ive felt like up tell legion was the original story line. Bfa and shadowlands are wows version of JJ abrams/rian johnson stories. They were not sure what to do. Hope they are figuring it out.

[upper pasture]

Idk, I feel like the void build up is next or next next to expansion story leads. Like we will stop the incarnates but their actions will have consequences

[dense plover]

uh - BfA had as many raids as legion

its literally ONLY shadowlands that was short 1

i dont think theyll go straight to azshara - theyre making dragonflight the new leveling experience, which means they have to introduce any major villains and have them do stuff first, so i think she would need build up before being a big bad, and i dont see them using her so soon after last time

[rain cave]

I do wonder if they should make old raids into scenarios or something for levelling experiences

because if iridikron appears later down the line you must kind of know him from some earlier stuff

like imagine if you had the option to run the raids + megadungeon of dragonflight as a solo version

idk

[dense plover]

would be neat to make a mini raid solo instance

like 3 bosses or just the final boss

i would love something like FFXIV's duty support stuff

[uncut vault]

Two, technically, since it also skipped out on the mini-raid

Feels like a mini-raid coming back is likely for Dragonflight though, given their current cadence

[dense plover]

i dont know if we will see more mini raids - mini raids feel like content filler tbh

[uncut vault]

would make for a good 10.2.5/7 equivalent to the megadungeon for a mid-season shakeup in season 3

[dense plover]

i would rather get a new regular dungeon like legion gave us

[uncut vault]

Ideally we could get both 😛

[dense plover]

🤞

[deep pawn]

I still believe in two new dungeons for season 3

6 legacy dungeons would feel like crap

[uncut vault]

I'd say it's more likely we get Dawn of the Infinite's split, two of the season 1 DF dungeons, then four new ones

[dense plover]

^^^

[uncut vault]

I think they've hit on a really good format with the mid-season release of content before putting it into the seasonal format in the next one with how they're doing it with the megadungeon

makes for a good insertion of content into the current season, and lets people experience the story/gameplay as intended before it gets hyperoptimized in M+

[dense plover]

100%

especially if the megadungeon is story relevant

like - return to karazhan really wasnt, but mechagon sorta was, and dawn of the infinites 100% is

[uncut vault]

I'm a bit mixed on that, but more on the matter of not having the story-accessible mode easily available from day one

Blizz really needs to get with the program of other MMOs and make instanced story content accessible from the get-go, rather than these months of delay

[dense plover]

100% - give me duty support!

[wet lark]

Yes, would be crazy to have chromie time available even at max level and have guilds that do legacy raids

Make old content able to be relevant always or turn the mode off and solo old content for mog

[upper pasture]

the problem with that would be balancing all that so that it's challenging enough to give out current high end gear

you'd be basically asking the dev time to make a new raid AND balance every raid before too

[deep pawn]

I don't think any of the season 1 dungeons are that popular. As bad as 6 legacy dungeons would feel, that's better than bringing back academy and vaults already

So please let it be Vakthros and a dream dungeon

[dense plover]

thats not at all what was being implied to be clear

we were saying taking stuff like dungeons and raids and when they are current, letting you run them or some story version of them with NPCs so you dont miss story

[dense plover]

no chance that tiny tower is a dungeon

dream dungeon i hope so

tbh i would love a patch with 2 dungeons, but i wouldnt mind 1 dungeon in 10.2 and 1 in 10.3

[deep pawn]

Vakthros is important somehow and it has a big door

[dense plover]

mini raid?

smaller area might be good for a 3 boss raid - 1 in front, 1 inside, 1 through a portal?

i mean, raszageth was trying to destroy it

it just seems to be a place full of magic

idk if its significant

we havent gone back there have we?

[deep pawn]

I figured it's waiting for Vyranoth

[dense plover]

if theyre setting up iridikron to be the boss of next expansion, like guldan was in WoD/Legion, then i do think vyranoth is the final boss of dragonflight

[deep pawn]

If 11.0 is titans returning, Iridikron could do something in 10.3 to alert them something is up.

I still think he's gonna corrupt the halls of infusion and all of Tyrhold

[dense plover]

i dont think theyre going to go so big so fast

i would love something like pandaria instead

new places, new peoples, new lore

[deep pawn]

Wasn't that essentially this?

But yeah, we could easily get MoP 2.0 since this is Cata 2.0

[sleek solar]

I dont really see this as Cata 2.0

[deep pawn]

Dragons, elements, next we're defending a tree under attack by fire.

I'm still expecting our last raid to be an attack on Valdrakken and finish by flying to Tyrhold to defeat a void corrupted Earth Dragon

With updated versions of the Dragon Soul weapons even

[harsh mason]

There are similarities only in general terms. Not really. Like, Vault was not like any raid from сata, and the laboratory was also in the classics. 4.2 was only verbally connected with Hijal, in fact the whole patch took place in the world of fire elementals. And after what Iridikron said and did at the end of the dungeon, he has exactly 0 reasons to attack Valdrakken (no one has any reason to attack this place).

I'm personally leaning towards the final raid being where Iridicron according to Alex was harbouring the Incarnations

By the way, in early concept art there are sketches of a certain citadel of primalists( which were not used in the vault)

Which looks very suspiciously like it's connected to Vyranoth.

[normal trail]

honestly prefer these megadungeon to the mini raids, but yeah mini raids can be cool too

[ionic terrace]

there's a new headless horseman quest chain

[uncut vault]

PTR's down, looks like new build incoming

[deep pawn]

woo

[plain violet]

Niiice!

[vernal juniper]

oh they maybe finally fix the missing npcs

[ionic terrace]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/dragonflight-fury-incarnate-ptr-development-notes/1631163/5

[silent urchin]

Infinite Scales Drakewatcher Manuscripts that drop from the Dawn of the Infinite mega-dungeon have been renamed to Visage of the Infinite and now include: Scales, Hair Color, Horn Color and Eye Color instead of just scales. Players who have already earned the Infinite Scales will automatically unlock the Infinite themed Hair, Horn and Eye colors within the Rostrum of Transformation. neat

[dense plover]

oh nice

those customizations were in the game but not usable

so thats great

"New Headless Horseman dungeon encounter – Increase the difficulty of the encounter by adding new mechanics by speaking to the Wicker men at the dungeon’s entrance. The curses are not party wide and afflict only those who enable them."

ok so this is wild

i CAN character copy

except for my main, who i cant

wtf

how do i fix this?

support doesnt deal with ptr issues

[ionic terrace]

just had a level 11 twink delete horseman, so yeah there's that

didn't last loing

[dense plover]

theres a menu now

empowered rares are obvious

fuck this sucks

i cant test shit because of my garbage ilvl

i just cant test

and it fucking sucks

[silent urchin]

oh skybox actually works in dreamsurge

at least in some areas

[dense plover]

its still not working right

it should be like the legion skybox where its up the entire time

i think its a bug tied to the fact that the zones now have more than day and night skyboxes

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/status/1683978394936176640?s=20

Ellie - might post spoilers-ish 💙 (@keyboardturn)

Forsaken tabard variants

Twitter · Jul 25, 2023, 11:11 PM

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/status/1683975599206043648?s=20

Ellie - might post spoilers-ish 💙 (@keyboardturn)

so... i don't think this one is gonna stay hidden for very long, it's very obvious and can easily be found.
But.
This is called (rot13) DhrfgOnpxtebhaqQentbasyvtugRzrenyqQernz

Twitter · Jul 25, 2023, 11:00 PM

QuestBackgroundDragonflightEmeraldDream is what it is named

so someone goofed on some encryption

[upper pasture]

i mean, with dreamsurges being a thing in the next patch are we that shocked there will be some emerald dream stuff?

[dense plover]

or its used for the dreamsurge quests

i didnt check

[silent urchin]

dreamsurge just use the regular background

[warm topaz]

personally

i think they leak those intentionally

like underground thing in 10.0

and all those ones

[silent urchin]

seems to be a new questline for hallows end

also the candy bucket appearance is on vendors for 150 treats

untextured tho

[uncut vault]

I mean its not exactly much of a revelation lol

10.1.5 literally goes "hey yeah we're doing world tree next" and the 10.1.7 quests all directly talk about the emerald dream bleeding into Azeroth

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/1683990511613255680

Martin (@Marlamin)

Blizzard made a dev map that has copies of Exile's Reach, Mechagon and Zereth Mortis all on the same map (kinda unusual). World maps for these (and a broken dev map) are also showing up on PTR though I assume they'll be removed soon(tm).
No idea what's going on, but still neat.

Twitter · Jul 25, 2023, 11:59 PM

👀

[dense plover]

maybe for like a recap ingame cinematic?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[silent urchin]

ok it's not much of a quest chain, like one quest then "go kill the horseman"

No one seems to be queueing for it tho so I'm kinda stuck

[dense plover]

oh apparently marl thinks its internal testing

which sounds likely

since apparently they broke some other testing maps

[warm topaz]

testing sizes maybe?

[silent urchin]

horseman quest seems to be bugged

the extra curses aren't too bad to deal with

and if you fail, you instead lose the curses and heal to full

so you can't really troll a group by failing

doesn't seem to reward anything

one weird thing is the door to teh rest of the instance can be opened

and it's just there, all scaled to level 1

possibly a bit more spooky and red than I remember

ok it seems to be identical to the real version, just broken scaling

same broken tooltips on doors

[dense plover]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/status/1683973958880886785?s=20 this is an uprez of the uldum chest

Ellie - might post spoilers-ish 💙 (@keyboardturn)

possible titan-y chest with... birds on it? eagles? (very suspicious asset)

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 25, 2023, 10:54 PM

no clue what its for though

[pulsar minnow]

isnt there that archaeology event in 10.1.7 with the holiday refresh?

"Secrets of Azeroth" is what i was thinking of - nvm thats in 10.1.5 so probably not related

[dense plover]

hard to say

theres secrets of azeroth stuff in 10.1.7

it depends when the patch releases

but this seems different than that

could be some titan stuff in the future emerald dream raid

and so this chest is the reward chest theyll use?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[plush mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/indiana-jones-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-harrison-ford-top-men-working-on-it-gif-17846718

[vernal juniper]

Am I missing something? I see people speaking about new events but I'm stuck like this on ptr by 2 weeks, with no npc on the quest "?"

https://i.vgy.me/CfBqFa.jpg

[dense plover]

its not there

its in azure span

look at the dragon isles map

[vernal juniper]

oh damn

[vernal juniper]

btw I speculated 1 month ago about garrosh timewalking, and not they are talking about it, nice

[warm topaz]

Ion said that they would like to bring back throne of thunder

i mean, not them, he

[rain cave]

Could be cool if they frame the archaeology rework as a kind of trudging up of old uldum stuff

Around the globe

E.g. wrathion looking for new stuff to do instead of aspect thirsting, goes: "nzoth nearly utilised uldum to remake the black empire, the relics of the titans are powerful. We must make sure nothing else remains out of our grasp or uncatalogued"

[deep pawn]

This patch seems super small.

[plain violet]

That's strange yes.

Unless there is quests about...

[deep pawn]

I mean there's encrypted quests they're not testing but it just feels smaller than 10.0.5 and 10.0.7

[plain violet]

Agreed!

[harsh mason]

More than 10.0.5

In 10.0.5, a trading post was added and there was 1 event in the open world

[upper pasture]

wasn't that also forbidden reach too?

[harsh mason]

There will be: a plot chapter with Tyr, quest chains for armor, an event in the open world

[harsh mason]

10.0.7

10.0.5 was even called simply "trading post".

So no lol, this is a patch the size of 5.3 approximately

[warm topaz]

is bigger than 9.2.7 at least lol

[harsh mason]

And this is if you do not take into account the new event in August (related to the Exploring of Azeroth( Or something like that) and new content for the Halloween

[upper pasture]

10.0.5 was the start of the season and the primal storms?

[warm topaz]

that was 10.0

[upper pasture]

the season didn't start at launch

neither did the primal storms?

[warm topaz]

some weeks later

but not 10.0.5

[upper pasture]

ah

[harsh mason]

Trading post and one event, that's it. It's the middle of the season

[upper pasture]

what was the one event tho?

[harsh mason]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_10.0.5

[warm topaz]

fury of the storm

[upper pasture]

oh the primalist future stuff

[deep pawn]

primalist future was cool

[upper pasture]

eh

[warm topaz]

i have never done it

[harsh mason]

In fact , DF has already spoiled people a lot . Here the mini patches are approximately the same in size as the major patches in some the old expansion.

[upper pasture]

maybe the first time you did it. i think the rifts have better replay vaule

[warm topaz]

i know people that would desagree witht that

[deep pawn]

rifts have more/faster rewards

future had a long grind, I got the mount though

[upper pasture]

that's not a good argument tho, that's basically saying you'll find someone to disagree

[warm topaz]

like i have talked with people that think in the past a .1 is what a 10.1+1.5+1.7 is now

[harsh mason]

But this is a fact. They can open wowpedia yourself and compare

[warm topaz]

im agree with him

[upper pasture]

which for any game is pretty easy to do

[warm topaz]

im not trying to refute him

[harsh mason]

Oh,and draenei storyline. That is, even more than that 5.3

[harsh mason]

Okey, yes, these patches are part of the overall major seasonal patch (just like it was in Legion,BfA and SL). But that means in any case that these patches are bigger than many major patches before. That is 10.1+10.1.5+10.1.7 is bigger than for example 7.1, 7.1.5. or even 5.1+5.3. The biggest patch in the history of wow is 8.2. But this was an exception

All this does not need to be somehow proved or argued on this topic for 2 months in a row. Open wowpedia and compare. I think that this topic can be closed. It already looks like paranoia

[deep pawn]

hmm, ptr updated tonight?

[dense plover]

nope

newest build was yesterday

there was a new vendor build ~20 min ago

[deep pawn]

just my client updated, probably a hotfix

[dense plover]

nope

my client isnt updated

and there havent been any hotfixes

maybe you didnt update yesterday

or a file was corrupted

there were ptr hotfixes about 20 min after the new build launched yesterday

but that was it

[deep pawn]

weird, it didn't do it this morning, just now when I had to log out cause of a disconnect

[dense plover]

maybe a file broke

or its just a bug

but i can guarantee there was no build or hotfixes

[deep pawn]

a vendor build is still fun

[vernal juniper]

where you can see the new vendor builds?

[dense plover]

Any build watcher

Vendor 3 got a new 10.1.7 build but that doesn’t mean we will get a new build before next week

[vernal juniper]

I mean, do you have a link for it?

I've tried to google but had no success

[sleek solar]

Do we know what the next trading post items are gonna be?

[glass flicker]

There's gonna be a Blood Troll set, that's guaranteed.

Whether it is cosmetic or has an armor type, we don't know.

[deep pawn]

woo, FF14 going to Xbox

odds of a FF14 x WoW crossover just skyrocketed

[sleek solar]

No not really

[subtle oar]

Pls no

I like playful pop culture references in WoW but full on crossovers with non blizzard properties would rip me right out my immersion for the game

[deep pawn]

I don't know if we'd see ff14 in WoW directly beyond a chocobo mount. But I mostly see it going on reverse and having WoW stuff in 14

[rain cave]

I don't see them collabing

Ff14 is overrated anyway xd

[deep pawn]

It wouldn't be cause Square doesn't want it, so it'll depend on if Microsoft wants it to happen post acquisition

[rain cave]

Nah square would be the wild bag

Card*

Square are notoriously difficult with their ip

Especially ff

[tepid fiber]

THE BLIZZARD STAYS WITH THE BLIZZARD OR ELSE YA GET THE LIZARD

[rain cave]

It's why I knew if sora was going to be added to smash he'd be the last character

And why I didn't want him in otherwise

Disney and square involved with ip crossover? Fuuuck that

[deep pawn]

Yoshi-P before has said he'd love to crossover with WoW because of how much WoW has inspired 14

[rain cave]

He doesn't get to decide it though

Influence yes

[tepid fiber]

I mean I would absolutely hate a WoWxFF event and I don't think it's very probable, but Assassin's Creed and FFXV really caught me off guard

[rain cave]

Was kinda silly

[deep pawn]

Thrall showing up in 14 wouldn't be any more shocking than us getting a car in 14 haha.

[rain cave]

We have ff14 at home, gnome on a magic rooster mount and the spiky hair option

[tepid fiber]

Yeah. So definitely not probable, but... As much as Yoshi would like it and Bobby loves money and how much the two communities antagonize each other, it's certainly possible

[deep pawn]

That said, with 7.0 releasing next summer, I really hope 11.0 is next fall with a 10.3 before it

I need a solid 2-3 months between the two

Nightmare would be no 10.3 and a surprise summer 11.0

[warm topaz]

thoughts on Archimonde coming back for the draenei chain on 10.1.7?

[tepid fiber]

Something something simulacrum something handwave

[subtle oar]

I doubt its Archimonde, it'd make no sense, because his fight in WoD took place in a pocket of the Twisting Nether, making his death permanent

[tepid fiber]

Inb4 flashbacks

[plush mortar]

Perhaps there will be a behemoth raid like with monster hunter world.

[rain cave]

I mean they can always just say it wasn't, in the cinematic after the fight he literally dies on drarnor

Draenor*

[deep pawn]

So... Imagine the jokes there's be of Blizzard announces South Seas or even the other side of Azeorth at Blizzcon. Two tropical exploration expacs at one time would be hilarious

[sleek solar]

I think MoP2.0 will not be the next, but after that one

[warm topaz]

you mean expansion?

[crystal pond]

Isnt dragonflight mop+cata 2.0 already?

[sleek solar]

Yes

[sleek solar]

Imo not really, especially not Cata 2.0

MoP debatable

[rain cave]

I mean, if we said that Shadowlands tackles Wrath, and DF is cata and MOP

WoD/Legion next

xd

[sleek solar]

xD

I dont agree with it

How is DF Cata

[rain cave]

well the cosmic stuff IS being setup

[rain cave]

https://tenor.com/view/deathwing-deathwing-fast-dragon-gif-14659411

[sleek solar]

So dragon = cata?

[rain cave]

well

it also directly tackles deathwings legacy

but also yes dragons = cata

[sleek solar]

Uhh ok

[rain cave]

in the same way undead = wrath

and demons = tbc...

[sleek solar]

The way I see it

Cata = new systems and world revamp

No world revamp here

Probably next expansion

[harsh mason]

So after all, MoP + Cata is a BfA. And Cata is vanilla 2.0. That is, DF is (MoP+Cata+vanilla 2.0)+BfA.🤔🤔🤔

[harsh mason]

Damn, then WotLK is Cata 0.5

There's 50% expansion-it's dragons

[crystal pond]

Cata have way more dragons across the world
In wrath dragons was only in Northrend

I mean majority of quests

[harsh mason]

In WotLK, dragons are literally everywhere

Regular, undead, protogragons, protodragons-undead. And all this in every location, in every quest, in almost every local faction (and in almost a raid). There are more of them than in

[rain cave]

Then shadowlands = tbc

And WoD = wrath

MoP = tbc as well

It's almost like warcraft has core elements that constantly intertwine

[crystal pond]

In wotkl undead are literally everywhere
Wotkl didnt stop in northrend lmao

[rain cave]

But expansions have main themes that are the dominant one of the expansion

Like cata having dragons

And a focus on world development

And dragonflight having a focus on dragons and world development

Or wrath having a focus on the undead and the lich King, and shadowlands following that up in more detail

Or legion and tbc being primarily about the legion and illidan

[crystal pond]

Yeah
There are alot of updates in the system and world still updating with DF lauch

[rain cave]

Just because the legion and illidan were teased and mentioned in mop, doesn't make mop the same in that chain as them

[harsh mason]

it's obvious that I'm being ironic. I am ironic about how people call "expansion=expansion" because of some similarities. But the same Cata was more about void. And there was a lot of vanilla in the same kata (literally, because kata was originally positioned as a remaking of the world

[rain cave]

Realistically, there was not much actual void in cats

Cata

Just a lot of voids influence on the story

But it's clear that they've been circling around old plot threads in new ways

"What happened to bolvar" -> that expansion

[crystal pond]

I found out that there was void stuff in cata only after few years lol

[rain cave]

"What's going on with kultiras? Nzoth? Azshara" bfa

Expansions can be distilled to easy one line concepts

[harsh mason]

In our history of warcraft, every world tree was attacked by someone. Literally every one. But lol, it is 10.2 (which has not yet come out) that has already been compared with 4.2 by some way.

Hijal also attacked the legion, why is it compared to Ragnaros?

Vault was simply called a raid with elementals, so it looks like a raid from the cataclysm (no one says which one exactly).

How it works-I don't understand

[deep pawn]

The reason this is being called Cata 2.0 is because it deals with the direct consequence of the end of Cata. We're reversing the Aspects giving up their powers. The fact we have cultists, an underground cavern favored by Deathwing, a world tree attacked by Fire, just happy coincidences.

Watch Wrathion help rogues make a pair of daggers from Fyrakk's or Iridikron's teeth.

WoD/Legion finished the story of TBC, BfA/Shadowlands finished Wrath.

next patch has the freaking druids of the flame coming back

[warm topaz]

what can we expect then on 11.0

a continuation of MoP?

[rain cave]

I mean I'd say we're heading towards a void unveil

[warm topaz]

yeah i think the same

[rain cave]

but I doubt it'll be a straight up cinematic for it

[warm topaz]

they are setting a void exp

[rain cave]

like next xpac will be the place where void takes off

[warm topaz]

like BFA or MoP?

[rain cave]

is my bet

there probably will be a void reference in the cinematic though

my example was like, showing that famous pirate with the nightsquall navigating the ocean, looting, shows a kind of montage of piraty things and the new land

but then it's revealed when he goes back to his quarters that he has the black blade

with a nzoth eye

and that's how he's been navigating is the implication

[warm topaz]

i think the reveal cinematic have to be epic for 11.0

[rain cave]

I mean I'd be all for a full on void exploration

seeing xalatath in high res would be saucy

[warm topaz]

can xalatath take on whatever appearance she wants?

[rain cave]

no

but she's probably changed

she needed a physical form, which we gave her

unsealed her

but now that she has a form I imagine it will be moulded slightly over time

[uncut vault]

Based on the silhouette, she’s seemingly still in that random high elf body lol

Will probably get a snazzy outfit though

[warm topaz]

that reminds me a bit when they show the jailer model as a black silhoutte in the gameplay trailer

and it turned out to be completely different

but I wouldn't mind if it kept that appearance and changed progressively

[uncut vault]

Would be neat if they actually used the idea that she isn’t bound by a single body, and had different vessels for different purposes

Crazy they’ve never done that for a banshee character lol

[rain cave]

yeah but she's probably decked herself out

not even just clothing but like

remember how those broken got warped by void, alleria has her umbral form

ik she looks like a velf rn, but wouldn't be surprised if next time we see her she gets a unique model with some REALLY nice void details throw nin

either more tendrils, some glowing hands with starry patterns, perhaps some very nice void eyes

maybe even something like taking the fel veins from the DH's and recoloruing them purple and starry

like the void itself infusing into her

depends on how far into it she is though, if she's more akin to an old god consciousness in a mortal form, and is merely sitting at their table, or if she's actively seeking to return to more pure void

[warm topaz]

Do we know why she was locked in the dagger?

[rain cave]

there's speculation, myths, rumours

but no

nothing concreet

[warm topaz]

like im kinda hype with that, who made the dagger and why

[rain cave]

my current speculation is that xalatath was constructed after their invasion of the shadowlands using information they stole on crafting mourneblades

and they made their own little one and turned it on xalatath for one reason or another

trapped her in it

as the runes on the side of xalatath to me look a lot like void interpreted domination runes

[warm topaz]

who invade the shadowlands? i played it but never paid attetiont to the lore

[rain cave]

the void did

[warm topaz]

oh really? why they did that

[rain cave]

was a random plot point that they threw in

but never explored aside from some WQ's and mentions in quests

[warm topaz]

liike the devourers?

[rain cave]

nah the devourers were explained

in probably the more boring way lmao

apparently they were just native to SL

instead of being some weird void amaglamations that leaked in to eat things

but yeah the black blade I think is a void mourneblade that they made after stealing info about them from the SL, then perhaps the old gods turned on xalatath and trapped her in it after she perhaps tried to tattle tale on them or something

or maybe was too dominant, whatever she did

[warm topaz]

if sl had never hapenned

what would you think about the origin?

[harsh mason]

I've already written that it isn't. 10.0 is not like anything that was in Cata( including raid). And what will be in 10.2 we don't know. I already wrote that it might be bltge to the Hijal defence from Warcraft 3. Or it will be events inside emerald dream

[harsh mason]

wat???

[deep pawn]

The reason people are thinking MoP 2.0 is cause hints seem to point towards going to some totally new area with a foreign culture. Either Avalen or whatever it is or the South seas and ending the expansion fighting a void infused being

[deep pawn]

It's about themes. You got fire threatening a night elf and green area. It's a rhyme but not an exact copy

If you can't see the parallels...

Like I said they're even bringing back the Druids of the Flame, a faction we presumed gone after Firelands

Aberrus was basically Blackwing Descent

Raszageth fight has more similarities to Al akir than I'd like haha

[austere gazelle]

every option are on the table. Maybe she was put there by Nzoth who knew what would happen later. Like an option for thousands years later

[subtle oar]

The devourers are not native to the Shadowlands. They exist in the void of empty space between the realms of the Shadowlands. They exist outside of the Shadowlands, and crave to enter any form of reality to begin devouring

The only reason they were able to break into the realms of the Shadowlands was because of Mawsteel

[rain cave]

I thought they were beings native to what was there before the shadowlands as a whole realm was populated

and the first ones just came in and developed it on their home basically

[subtle oar]

They are native to the empty void the existence in-between the realms of Death

But said empty void is implied to exist irrespective of the existence of the Shadowlands, meaning the Devourers exist in-between ever realm of reality, be it Death, Life, Light, Void, Choas, Order or Reality itself

[warm topaz]

i have a question, is time above the titans?

like

there are more titans in differents timelines?

or rather, what is the magnitude of time in the warcraft universe?

[tepid fiber]

Time is associated with Order and can be manipulated through Arcane

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Time

[austere gazelle]

There is a single side quest contradicting all of this, saying the devorer are part of the shadowlands ecosystem and are basically trash collector feeding on trash and zovaal stuff made them go way out of their initial tasks

[austere gazelle]

Tome is certainly above the titans since its likely the First Ones that introduced the concept. (When they created Order )

About the devourers

[subtle oar]

Shadowlands is full of dogshit storywriting and horrendous contradictions

So I go with Occams razor and go with them being native to the in-between. It makes them much cooler and interesting and sets them up as something far more dangerous

[jade basalt]

The In-Between is part of the Shadowlands.

It's what's between the realms of the Shadowlands. Not what's between the realms of the cosmos.

Devourers are native to the Shadowlands. They don't live in one specific realm, but between realms.

[subtle oar]

The in-between is irrespective of the Shadowlands, existing before it existed.

[jade basalt]

I don't know where your getting you're info from but it's false.

The In-Between is part of the Shadowlands. The devourers are from the Shadowlands.

Devourers are aberrations that hail from the farthest reaches of the Shadowlands[1

[upper pasture]

they already stated it's their own headcannon.

[subtle oar]

The part about the in-between existing before the Shadowlands and the Devourers being native to it is stated in-game but is also contradicted in game too. I simply chose to believe the former and not the latter, because the former makes far more sense than the latter.

Shadowlands is host to a lot of really bad, contradictory writing, so its not hard to imagine what really is what the truth there.

[jade basalt]

It's not contradicted in-game

The statements that the devourers are from the Shadowlands and that the In-Between is part of the Shadowlands are consistent with each other.

[austere gazelle]

Shadowland is full of schröedinger lore anyway

[rain cave]

Tbh they could pull a titans on us again

And just be like "yeah the first ones just ordered everything there and said they created it whilst putting some other stuff on top"

Devourers and the drust could both be arms of entities/ powers that were previously there

But got mowed over for orders sake

The maldraxxus being a giant beast, strapped down and continually harvested for resources, ardenweald needing a constant flow of resources and being a tree to me says it's like an artifical growth they put there.

Sl lore discussion in 2023

[subtle oar]

Very true.

[dusk flame]

is it possible to play the ptr without subscription?

[uncut vault]

Yes, you just need to create a PTR account on your bnet profile

[rain cave]

Curveball, what if tyr is the final boss?

The corruptor he kills in that quest tells him the aspects will go against the titans, and while we've been thinking of that as them turning evil, being corrupted. Could just mean that Alex and the others finally just decides to take a stand against them. Tyr has been visually portayed as heroic, filling in a paladin archetype. But we know that he does dirty work behind the scenes, and may actually be the keeper that was actively seeking to push the titans ideas the hardest

Building him up throughout the expansion only to twist him to villainy at the end

Think about it, he wakes up. Sees that most of his original aspects are dead, with new untrustworthy (to him) people in their stead, open to new ideas. I'm pretty sure that if they didn't immediately just go with his plan he'll just go into classic "aight we gotta press the emergency button" and threaten the world in some way

Alexstraza being portrayed as someone longing for the good old days when things were "less complicated" when in reality it was just that the old regime was just propped up on others suffering/ oppression, and is now learning about all of it, realising that it wasn't right and that things need to change. Feels like a good metanarrative

Her reacting to tyr waking up, thinking it'll be fine! He's a good old friend, only to realise he's actually malicious, was actually propagating the very system she's realised is flawed

[subtle oar]

Tbh, I really dislike all this "Titans are actually bad guys," stuff. And if they brought Tyr back just to kill him off as a villian, that'd be a huge fuck you to players who fell in love with him all the way back when he was first introduced so long ago.

[rain cave]

We've never met him

People who've fallen in love with him don't really have a reason to yet

He's a mythical figure we know of, and started learning more about recently

But just because he turns out a baddie doesn't mean you can't still enjoy him

Lich King, illidan back in TBC

Deathwing, nzoth,etc

The infinite version of him even kind of alludes to him basically being a titan pawn before

And they've been building to "cosmic forces are not benevolent, we must stand on our own" since at least legion

[pulsar minnow]

Well we’ve played through his eyes and seen his dialogue. Yeah the titans are a bit shady, and Uldorus is pretty controversial to dragonkind, but it seems like Tyr genuinely cares for the planet and the aspects

He especially believes in the mortal races unlike people like Odyn who’d rather see us wiped off the planet

[dusk flame]

you people play hardcore?

[rain cave]

Whilst true, he also did live experiments

And infused the eggs

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah in Uldorus. We’re still missing context for what Vyranoth and Alexstrasza were talking about because it seems to sound like proto Drake eggs were forcefully converted to dragon eggs

What I’m getting at is that the titans are shady, but honestly Tyr seems to be the least shady

What I hope happens is that the keepers begin to think for themselves. Once Tyr comes back and sees everything that’s happened in the thousands of years he’s been gone, he changes his viewpoint on pushing the titan’s agenda

[worn crown]

I do like Titans being shady.
Opens up new narrative possibilities.
They have a kind of colonialist mentality 😅

[subtle oar]

Eh. Not a fan.

[deep pawn]

Tyr may have been ordered by Loken too

At that point Odyn had already abandoned his post as Prime Designate.

And Loken was turned by Yogg-saron early

[pulsar minnow]

We should be getting more of the Tyr storyline in this patch right?

Or is that 10.1.7

[upper pasture]

It's not in 10.1.5 so far and based on what storylines 10.1.5 were hinting it doesn't look like 10.1.7 either

[rain cave]

Titans being shady has been in the game since wrath arguably vanilla

[tepid fiber]

I'd agree

Enigmatic would be more appropriate

[subtle oar]

Titan keepers =/= Titans

[rain cave]

💀

Naaru =/= light then

[subtle oar]

Not to mention, not really. Loken being a pawn of Yogg isn't the Keepers being shady, it's him being corrupted

[rain cave]

Algalon

[subtle oar]

Alagalon isn't a Keeper, he's a Celestial

[rain cave]

I never said he was a keeper

I was talking about the titans faction having impure motives

[subtle oar]

impure

O.o

OK then

[rain cave]

The titans are not benevolent gods

Sargeras kind of embodies that

The narrative has also been steering in the direction that they're just imposing ideas forcefully on planets

As at the other forces

Are*

Hence why the narrative has steered in the direction of power being morally agnostic, since everything can be good or bad. But the big players of each corner want us

[subtle oar]

Again, not an example of that either. That was Alagalon following his directive to safeguard Azeroths soul. He didn't possibly think mortals could turn course and prevent her corruption. We proved to him we stood a chance.

[rain cave]

Spearheaded by illidan

[rain cave]

Which is exactly why they're shady

He's just "following orders" to wipe out a planet they deem tainted

He has no more claim to that call than the old god he's standing in the prison of

[subtle oar]

Sargeras is not. His entire mission was to destroy all to prevent the void from claiming reality. His argumentation was life flourished once, it could again once free from the taint of the Void.

[rain cave]

Or brann bronzebeard

[rain cave]

He wasn't infallible or benevolent

[subtle oar]

That's not being shady

[rain cave]

Dude got gaslit by afterlife rejects into committing planetary genocide

[tepid fiber]

Hey so how about them Warcraft PTRs??

[rain cave]

Lmao

[subtle oar]

The titans didn't deem it tainted. Alagaon received a distress signal and came to investigate. HE deemed it too tainted and on need or reorigination

[rain cave]

But yeah the titans have never been "good" in all senses

[subtle oar]

Agree to disagree I guess

[rain cave]

Algalon was their representative

He was meeting out their will on their behalf

[subtle oar]

No. Alagalon is a Celestial, an enigmatic race who's loyalties are to the safeguard of reality

[rain cave]

Saying the titans are good guys who have our best interests in mind is the opposite of where the stories going

We don't know diddly squat about the celestials other than they're related to order and the titans in some way

[subtle oar]

recent stories, which is why I said I dislike it

[rain cave]

Goes back to wrath

The seeds were there for a while

[subtle oar]

Nope.

[rain cave]

Aight bro is that's what you wanna do fair enough

If*

I like the direction the stories going of empowerment to mortals

Independence and individuality is great

[tepid fiber]

Agreed.

[pulsar minnow]

I mean

Algalon said this

“I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames, their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion... of empathy.
I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?”

So yeah seeds were there

[uncut vault]

I feel like we won’t get this not even because of potential lore reasons, but because of the megadungeon

Despite his fight being an Infinite Tyr, his actual mechanics are just… regular Tyr stuff lol

He doesn’t use any time mechanics, all of his stuff is holy/order magic, and the theme of how you beat him is all about unity and standing together with your allies

If they were going to have us fight Tyr at the end of the xpac, they’d surely save those thematic mechanics for his actual self, and not a time-twisted version

[crystal pond]

Well we probably will have conflict with Tyr but any fight with him are doubtful

[short prism]

yeah, even the thing they’re named after isn’t exactly a pure interest lol

aren’t the titans in greek mythos like, pretty bad for mortals?

[tepid fiber]

Aside from a few, like Prometheus

[crystal pond]

There was tons of signs that titans have no care for life on azeroth
they only care for Azeroth her self
Because for what sake the giga-nuke was created for lol

[short prism]

i personally find it far more likely that tyr at some point will have to defy the titans, and he probably will!! for our sakes atleast

[tepid fiber]

Watch Azeroth be born and have no interest in joining the Pantheon lol

Also, she better look like a dwarf to honor her dad who stepped up

[short prism]

she’s obviously a giant vulpera

they spawned from the sand

[tepid fiber]

I will fucking riot

[crystal pond]

There was text that telling about giant af serpent that will devour all worlds (i forgot from what this is) – i think that azeroth

I think she is a dragon/serpent like

[short prism]

honestly i could see azeroth being a kind of dragon

or maybe even a tauren given the whole earth mother myth

i just hope she isn’t an elf 😔

[crystal pond]

We have elune with all elf stuff
Azeroth is clearly not into elfs

But i hope that she is not elf as well

[tepid fiber]

Dragons definitely most likely--although maybe at least some braids to make Magni happy

I meme about the vulpera thing but for real I will be legit disappointed if she turns out elfy

[crystal pond]

I dont think that taurens also possible since taurens came after dragons as race
20k+ years ago they literally did not exist even as taunka

[rain cave]

Troll

Or tauren

[tepid fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-no-nonono-noooo-cat-no-gif-25423213

[subtle oar]

Azeroth is obviously a Panda