Hope EU won’t face all these problems tomorrow 🤞🏼
#beta-ptr-spoilers
ember blaze
We getting a build today? 🤔
harsh mason
In the bluepost it was written that "Later this week
It can be either today or Thursday
silent urchin
Oh, it's not a choose one a week?
cosmic beacon
Nvm seems u need the legendary staff for the mount?
For Tarecgosa’s Visage
Oh sweet so they did make it that u need the legendary staff, my time grinding wasn’t wasted 
silent urchin
hadn't bothered to check cause timer was for reset
but blue dragon questline is open on EU
nvm not decrypted, senegos showing up as unknown and can't talk to him
mossy meteor
okay well
blue dragon questline is finished
with breaks and what not it took me 4 hours
if you no-life it, might be able to do it in 2 hours
rose escarp
Oh sweet so they did make it that u need the legendary staff, my time grinding w...
Would be utterly stupid if they gave it to everyone 😂
cosmic beacon
when i saw it was from a new quest i honestly expected them to
rose escarp
12 years of waiting will FINALLY pay off!
mossy meteor
it's also apparently per character
rose escarp
Yup, need the quest done, which is only available by having the staff AND completing the new questline, as I understand it.
Which, I’d say, is both fine and expected.
crystal pond
Blue dragonflight questline is so good
Literally a fresh air after black dragonflight campaign
little hound
But he is at least by age
Pretty sure Senegos Is the only Blue to have died of age In..Well, its rare for dragons to ever die by age. They're usualy slain or so.
Even Alexstrasza's first consort: Tyrannastrasz or whatever, died In combat. And he was said to be older than Alexstrasza even. So I wonder how old Senegos got to be.
subtle oar
So dumb lol. Wrathion should have been Aspect
sullen crater
I'll be honest with you, Im okay with how it panned out. I mean, I think it also shows the growth between him AND sabellion, granted....I wanted Wrathion, thats no secret, I def. didnt want Sab, but Im okay with Ebyssian. Besides., who knows what the future may hold, I think both him and Sab will still have some very important parts.....to help shape the black dragonflights legacy.
little hound
So dumb lol. Wrathion should have been Aspect
Yes, let the manchild who caused thousands of deaths have the steering wheel 😄 Good Idea.
Ebyssian was the obvious choice. He remains wise, he saw Neltharion's legacy for what It really was. And he managed to keep both Sabellian and Wrathion from going at eachother and schooling them several times 😄
subtle oar
Ebyssian was the obvious choice. He remains wise, he saw Neltharion's legacy for...
Lol no
little hound
"lol no" good defense.
If not Ebyssian, Sabellian would still have been the better choice.
crystal pond
The problem in the writing of blacks
Its bad in general
Ebyssian is literally forced choice because "oh look he is better because other two is too bad"
It will be 100% choice if it wasnt writed like a shit
Now Wrathion is probably will be forgotten or will be sylvanas 2.0
Or we gonna kill him because something something 
little hound
I think the lore behind it is very solid. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its shit 😄
And no, Wrathion chose not wanting to become an Aspect after seeing what Neltharion really did. Same goes for Sabellian .That's why they both picked Ebyssian.
crystal pond
No, its a shit
Because we have blue dragonflight questline thats 🤌
Maybe narrative was good but writing was absolute garbage
Except Fyrakk
Fyrakk was good
little hound
That's your opinion. 
crystal pond
Its a fact
crystal pond
Sadly im not the only one who think that way
little hound
And after having read all the WoW books, from both manga, comic and actual lore books, I say its very accurate.
So you're very welcome to have your own opinion, but that's not how everyone feels about it.
upper pasture
Honestly I’m fine with how the black aspect story played out
Ebyssian even said he wants to do it with those two by his side so
little hound
Pretty sure the only ones moaning and whining about it are the ones who simped so hard for Wrathion or Sabellian without an ounce of lore knowledge / reasoning behind it.
Thus, they shall keep moaning and whine.
upper pasture
It’s not like those two are just gonna be thrown aside and forgotten now
little hound
Nah, no way. Ebyssian cherishes them both very much, and they'll most likely keep together as brothers.
Wrathion has been a boss once before, no way they'll reuse him for that again. And the Wrathion you fight In Ny'alotha Is just a disguised Faceless, like the Echo of Neltharion boss.
So In logic sights: Wrathion has never been a boss. Just entities disguised as him.
Gotta love this model though. Without all the lava, he'll look awesome when he grows up.
ionic terrace
silent urchin
wait, today and not tomorrow?
upper pasture
Devo nerfs 😦 well sorta. I like my 95% mastery lol
Guess it’s a good thing I’ll be respeccing to Augment
silent urchin
realms are up, seems we're now on the incarnate themed realms so you need fresh copies
dragonriders have a currency, but no idea where the vendor is
ah vendor is in valdrakken
get 10 for the first quest, and seemingly one for every medal
so that's 48 races x3, plus 10, plus probably more quests
easy to get it all
silent urchin
Seems to be just the one quest. Gloves are missing from the vendor though.
plush mortar
It’s not like those two are just gonna be thrown aside and forgotten now
Like i said earlier they will be free to be used more later. The other aspects have ben shelves for years now. I dont want them shelves. Ebyssions story will for the most part be finished after this expansion for quite a while like the others aspects (except for perhaps nozdormu)
upper pasture
i mean, just because they didn't become aspect doesn't mean they are gonna be "shelved". generals tend to be where conflicts are and ambassadors tend to usual go and speak on behalf of others, so if the story leads to conflict or a new land with new people it's likely we will have them show up.
plush mortar
Yes but lets be honest unless this expac pulls a legion we will be moving on. The aspects will be around but they have always been around but only in some random quests. Just because we have them back doses mean that this will be world of dragonflight.
upper pasture
i suspect the earth warder has a lot to catch up on tbh
and even more so if the aspects are busy who would we get instead? oh idk other main characters that didn't become the aspect
tulip sun
@uncut vault What are those scourge NPCs listed under? Dont seem to see them in the database
That is a very intriguing find lol
uncut vault
just NPCs from today's date
tulip sun
Huh. How many NPCs pop up for you?
Only 113 in total from todays build for me. None scourge. Wonder what I am doing wrong
deep pawn
teal scales? 😄
uncut vault
Only 113 in total from todays build for me. None scourge. Wonder what I am doing...
are you on 10.1.5?
I have 251 for today
subtle oar
It’s not like those two are just gonna be thrown aside and forgotten now
They will, now that Ebonhorn is the Black flight leader. 12 years olf Wrathion development down the drain.
harsh mason
They will, now that Ebonhorn is the Black flight leader. 12 years olf Wrathion d...
The development of Wrathion ended on Pandaria, when they made an antagonist out of it, and then forgot him for 5-6 years
His storylines were specially cut out because they no longer saw him as an important character for dragons
Maybe in 2011 there were plans, but during the Pandaria there are no more
Literally every phrase of the characters about Wrathion throughout the expansion, where he appeared, is: "silly whelp, who acts without thinking and on emotions." A great leader
crystal pond
The development of Wrathion ended on Pandaria, when they made an antagonist out ...
Where did they forgot about him? WoD was cuted badly, but wrathion is there
Legions Wrathion was rewrited for new character
Then BFA happened
sullen crater
They will, now that Ebonhorn is the Black flight leader. 12 years olf Wrathion d...
Not necessarily. I mean.....I see where there is growth by him realizing he doesn't need to be an aspect, he just needs to be himself. I doubt blizzard will stop his development there. I'm sure Ebyssian will utilize both him and Sabellion....
sullen crater
The development of Wrathion ended on Pandaria, when they made an antagonist out ...
They never reallu "forgot" about him, just because we might not have seen him as a "major" player or around a bunch, doesn't mean he wasnt there. WOD he was even if he might have been in tghe background as a supporting character. But every major character takes a step back to being a supporting character at some point., Like anduin....Im sure he will return as weill sylvanas. Just because you don't "see" them doesn't mean they arent there or doing stuff
sonic flame
one note in the ptr says
" Chromie time expansion restrictions have now been removed "
what do they refer to with this?
the only chromie restriction I know about is that new accs can't join it until they have reached level 60 on at least 1 toon
plush mortar
Everyone gets shelves for a bit. Kadgar was shelves from w2 to bc then again until legion.
plush mortar
Not that they forget abou them but there are not relevant for the current story
plush mortar
Until wod*
Yes duh i was thinking that and wrote legion while editing lol
But honestly i love wrathion but my fear was that he would be aspect then be forgotten while we head out to xpc to be added later
Wasthion needs to be the illidan who leads us against the void.
austere gazelle
Now Wrathion is probably will be forgotten or will be sylvanas 2.0
Or we gonna k...
No, wrathion futur will lies in helping Anduin doing whatever the fu he's doing
crystal pond
No, wrathion futur will lies in helping Anduin doing whatever the fu he's doing
Happy gay adventure 
rain cave
Happy gay adventure <:dracthyr_uwu:1002363145727246387>
ik it's a meme, and while it's fine if they do that story well I feel the potential for narrative between anduin and wrathion is insanely strong without a romance plot
especially with anduins new worldview
and wrathions now too
crystal pond
ik it's a meme, and while it's fine if they do that story well I feel the potent...
I always saw them as friends
Its so dumb when people start romanitize characters that care about each others in platonic way
Its absolute gorgeous as a meme but as something serious big no
harsh mason
Everyone gets shelves for a bit. Kadgar was shelves from w2 to bc then again unt...
gYou know, Khadgar, before disappearing from the plot for several expansions, did not do shit and did not fly away, spitting on everything. Wrathion, after it was shown in Pandaria, began to be cut from the storylines. Just like that? Obviously not. But people just ignore it
He can be anyone, he is still an important and complex character, he is all present in the plot and plays an important role. But not the role of the aspect. It's not a role that suits him because of his character, can't see that?
It's as if Flynn became the leader of Kul Tiras
I'm 100% sure that there are people looking at the plot and the characters from different sides, but this attitude to Wrathion looks like fanboying
rain cave
I always saw them as friends
Its so dumb when people start romanitize characters...
ye, because state of relationship isn't good writing by itself. No matter how much 2 characters like/hate eachother, good character dynamic between them will always be the more important thing
and character dynamic doesn't = story to me
it's part of but seperate too
it's why to me one of the strongest things in the bfa/ shadowlands arc to me was the tyrande and sylvanas dynamic
just seeing tyrande so, vengeful, effectively becoming a banshee like sylvanas but instead like elune. Where at some point we had to start asking "is she actually herself"
even if it ended kind of limply with it just being sucked out
I enjoyed seeing tyrande just on the complete warpath, wanted her to be in sanctum of domination for the sylvanas boss
though tyrande did finally get to give sylvanas her punishment, and the bitterness/acknowledgement was nice there
to me, even though the shadowlands story was was, and dragonflights much better. I think that sylvanas's punishment was handled much better than wrathions just lack of accountability
I do hope that with his new minset of not even trying to be the aspect, he'll reflect and realize he should actually go out and find anduin to apologize, which would be nice but also allow anduin to re-enter the story
harsh mason
I think he should go apologize to many, to the pandarens, to the Draenei from alt draenor, to Magni and MOTHER
Apologize to the players🗿
And then help the dragons from blackflight
But again, the game says that he will help Ebyssian further, so at least so
I actually had such a moment (around the end of draenor) that one day we will fight against Wrathion
harsh mason
though tyrande did finally get to give sylvanas her punishment, and the bitterne...
The moment with Sylvanas was also that she, like Wrathion, was praised for something that did not exist. For example, everyone was shocked by her genocide of nelfs, but no one remembered the genocide of the peasants in Western Plaguelands in the cataclysm (whom she killed only in order to raise them as undead)
Well, that is, she has always been the one who will easily kill anyone and as much as she wants for her own purposes
rain cave
I mean you could argue that
western plaguelands is not alliance territory
and that they were still at war during cata
lor'thremar and garrosh have also publicly said they didn't like her raising dead though
harsh mason
That's right, they weren't part of the alliance and they weren't part of the war
rain cave
at least not in some circumstances
harsh mason
But nevertheless, this act characterized her
rain cave
the nelf thing was that, they didn't even raise them
it wasn't like they were doing it to gain resources
or land
they TORCHED it
explicitly to just, kill a bunch of nelfs
destroying their city and cultural land in the process
harsh mason
I'm not talking about the scale of what she did, I'm talking about the fact that this act characterized her
rain cave
I'm not quite following your thinking
what's your point?
that her bfa/shadowlands actions were independent as character acts
compared to her earlier characterization?
harsh mason
Look, she easily kills people for the sake of her goal (to raise in the form of the dead). Her goal at BfA was to morally break the nelfs (by any means). Understood? This flow characterized her as someone who would do anything for her purpose
That is, any action could be expected from her, it should not have become something that people do not expect from her
rain cave
people have issue with how she was driven to thinking the person she was working for was the overall good
harsh mason
There was a lot of criticism towards Sylvanas that she became different in the BfA (because of this, there were even theories that she was controlled by Nzoth)
plush mortar
I think they are saying that sylvanus was mostly “pure dag nasty evil” for most of wow. Even here “we have worth as forsaken cause if necromacy” seems like a hood qulity but in reality she was evil to the core with the occasional slip and she got the justice she deserand needed at the end of SL. Wrathion gets simps with no justice.
rain cave
until the last 5 seconds where he tries to say "wait I had a reason"
harsh mason
I'm talking about BfA now, not SL
rain cave
sylvanas was never like, outright evil
she was definetly not a good person at heart for a while though
because that part of her was removed
plush mortar
Almost the very definition of a psychopath
rain cave
sylvanas doesn't kill without reason, if you're her enemy she will show you malice though and she will use whatever tactics
yes
austere gazelle
this is weird.
Ebyssian on abberus doors ?
rain cave
the only reason she didn't use blight before bfa could be because she deduced that she needed to stay in the good graces of the horde
but when she became warchief, she realized it didn't matter as much
and now she was just going sicko mode for jailer
plush mortar
I’ll clarify. Sylvanis was not evil because that would mean she had a choice between good and evil kr at least remose for bad things done. He remorse and good self were removed from her. She dis what whas needed to that end. Without remorse.
rain cave
she was effectively lobotomized
she's still doing conscious decisions
she is still liable for her actions
responsible on some very significant degree
harsh mason
sylvanas doesn't kill without reason, if you're her enemy she will show you mali...
So the reason for the nefls murders was to break them. Like, look, I went into your territory, I'm killing you, I burned a tree, and your alliance didn't even help you (and this will later become the moment of the quarrel between Tyrande and Andiun (that he didn't go the first thing to help her win back the shores)
rain cave
however. Because we know how her story, we knew she was not the mastermind, her soul was shattered, her character incomplete
uther can testify that within her, she was now internally conflicted
I don't really want to ramble about SL though
plush mortar
I don't really want to ramble about SL though
Yes. Lets leave that half written mess in the past were it belongs.
harsh mason
As for helping the Jailer: I already wrote that initially (before he was enslaved by the magic of domination), his goal was just to remake the cosmos (which she wanted). So technically he wasn't lying to her. Just learning to control this magic, he decided that "fuck it all". I don't think she believed him 100% (since the book clearly states that she didn't trust him initially), but her desire to redo the "cosmic law" exceeded everything else
I'm not saying it was reasonable.
crystal pond
I wish shadowlands never happened 😔
harsh mason
Oh come on, I remember how everyone was screaming with delight about locations, dungeons, music, characters in covenants (like Prince Renathal or Lady Moonberry),raids and Denathrius. SL is not limited to the main plot
rain cave
shadowlands had cool potential
the covenants were a genuinely cool idea
they just completely failed on the fantasy of them
thank god they changed their work ethic though
and design ethic
because their old one is the reason why the fantasy completely failed
plain violet
Oh come on, I remember how everyone was screaming with delight about locations, ...
Agreed on that.
austere gazelle
place your bets for the Sixth dragonflight, what could it be?
there is a spot open xD
( I think the logical conclusion of this expansion could be the Primalist Dragonflight. Iridikron and Fyrakk are defeated and Vyranoth decide to side with the Aspects somehow. )
( Could also be Murozond )
silent urchin
dracthyr would be the obvious choice, I'd have thought
especially with the cause without a rebel questline that's coming.. eventually, where alexstrasza learns that drakonids are people too
austere gazelle
That too. But what Aspect would they represent? I think they're englobed in the black dragonflight.
But in the end, a 'Mortal' Dragonflight could do it.
silent urchin
dracthyr do still have all flights magic represented
even if they're stronger as black
I don't think it needs to be filled, though
plush mortar
I wish shadowlands never happened 😔
My its name be forgotten -emberthral (probably)
pulsar minnow
there is a spot open xD
They could maybe have Tyr standing there or something
harsh mason
( I think the logical conclusion of this expansion could be the Primalist Dragon...
I doubt that Vyranoth will come over to our side.
Although everything is possible, maybe it will be a place for protodragons
plush mortar
All i know is there will be many disenfranchised elementalists that will need to be reintergraded back into society (shamans for the rest of the races)
rain cave
All i know is there will be many disenfranchised elementalists that will need to...
that's actually a pretty good shout at what the narrative hook could be
plush mortar
that's actually a pretty good shout at what the narrative hook could be
Hey thanks. Ive been saying since the start of DF that soon all races will get all classes. Locks were the next probable class, shaman wont be to hard just totems (or remove totems). Pallys probably after that with mounts added soon after. Druids last.
tulip sun
Hey thanks. Ive been saying since the start of DF that soon all races will get a...
Shamans seem highly likely by the end of the primalist story
rain cave
Hey thanks. Ive been saying since the start of DF that soon all races will get a...
they did say they wanted to make all classes playable for all races
but that it takes time for narrative and assets to be made
but shamans being next makes complete sense, probably alongside paladins
glass flicker
People are very eager to play draenei warlocks. Especially roleplayers.
rain cave
eredar locks
glass flicker
They will beg for red skin, I assure you.
rain cave
I mean
red skin draenei would probably be more accepted in the horde than the alliance
logically speaking
rain cave
the dranei we have, and the lightforged, would not forgive the traitorous man'ari
glass flicker
That's why I've been saying "Give the Horde Defias humans" for ages.
As an allied race.
glass flicker
Humans in red? Always pog.
glass flicker
Vanessa? Whitemane?
rain cave
don't think defias humans makes sense for horde
glass flicker
I think it does.
rain cave
I do think they should add more neutral though
glass flicker
Imagine if the Horde would ask them for help directly for having built Stormwind.
"The Stonemasons know the city better than anyone"
glass flicker
I've been saying it in BfA.
rain cave
ah
still doesn't really make sense to me
since the defias wouldn't want to ally with the horde I think
they're part of the pirate gangs
glass flicker
Well, why not?
rain cave
too formal
rain cave
pirates don't like rules
factions = rules
also the horde are still technically their enemies
in certain aspects
ik the defias are made of a variety of races including horde races
glass flicker
The only rule the Horde has is don't commit genocide.
rain cave
but the defias's original cause was thinking they were right compared to stormwind
but at the same time
glass flicker
Happened with Blackhand, Garrosh and Sylvanas.
rain cave
just because they dislike stormwinds rule
doesn't mean they like the horde
enemy of enemy doesn't = friend
glass flicker
But what if it did?
glass flicker
But why?
glass flicker
So is Nightborne.
rain cave
what
glass flicker
They're just mana night elves.
rain cave
nightborne are not just nelfs
glass flicker
Mag'har? Just brown orcs.
rain cave
they're more distinct than mag'har or void elves from their original
10's of thousands of years of evolution seperate from nelfs
intaking mana
the original mana night elves were high elves
highborne in fact
glass flicker
Literally just thin night elves with smug faces.
rain cave
highborne are mana night elves
glass flicker
And better customization.
rain cave
nightborne is a slightly different skew of that, if it went on for eons
and changed them physically
but yeah defias is a mindset, not a race
they aren't physically different as humans. And they aren't just humans
if you want humans on horde
forsaken are there for ya
hopefully they'll let you stand up straight at some point
and you're probably getting paladin soon, probably
humans won't be on horde unless they change it to choosing a faction independently
which I doubt will happen but I guess it theoretically could
harsh mason
All i know is there will be many disenfranchised elementalists that will need to...
This is only if the very idea of the primalists ceases to exist, which is very unlikely. Because the members of other such factions have not been integrated back in any way, all because the functions themselves, as an idea, have not gone anywhere.
Primalsites are not only shamans. By themselves, initially, primalists are protodragons.
That is, anyone can become part of this faction
rose escarp
All i know is there will be many disenfranchised elementalists that will need to...
Also, one of the "Primalist Shaman" special mobs in the Fyrakk Assaults is... a Night Elf 😄
deep pawn
Aww, I sorta had hope the mount expansion was coming in 10.1.5
It'd be a good thing for 10.1.7 still
harsh mason
🙈
This is a concept for legacy, no more
That is, it may not even be used in the game. For example, there is a slightly different Ysera concept here
crystal pond
This is a concept for legacy, no more
The meme is that they used Kalecgos original art for Malygos
Instead of using Malygos model
We have this concept as Kalecgos model in game atm
harsh mason
The meme is that they used Kalecgos original art for Malygos
Rather the opposite. These concepts were drawn by another studio to order specifically for Legacy. Blizzard could use this concept to update the Kalesgos model.
crystal pond
they actually updated Kalecgos and not malygos
harsh mason
So this studio used the new Kalecgos model. These concepts were not drawn by Blizzard artists
crystal pond
This is originally was Kalecgos art but they used this art also for Malygos
This is where missunderstanding happening 🙈
Studio did a right thing its blizzard who did opsie and didnt give them proper info
But still funny x)
harsh mason
It doesn't matter, in Legacy it looks like this. And if we see him in the game (which is unlikely), then the game model will not be drawn by a custom studio.
Moreover, if you compare them in detail, Malygos really looks like Kalecgos, only much older and with a beard. It is obvious that in legacy he is still without a beard
The shape of the muzzle, such combs and crystal horns (only there is a beard)
crystal pond
Horns are different
Eyes are different
Coloration is different + beard of course
Also btw aspects didnt age
He was already old when aspects became aspects
It even stated that he was the oldest of the five so
dense plover
do these have any sort of use yet?
silent urchin
Aren't those the graveyard/spirithealer spots?
certainly looks the same
might just be used as generic decoration there
dense plover
tbf, it was probably planned from the start
ionic terrace
dense plover
either they cut the spec early, wanted to test evoker stuff on a smaller scale, wanted to see how adding an additional spec later would work, or some combo of these
plain violet
Yeah, clearly there were cuts.
uncut vault
they definitely always planned it from the start with Emberthal's story
dense plover
^this
uncut vault
her whole thing in the starting zone is that where we rescue the devastation and preservation creches, the augmentation one is wiped out except for her
and the legacies cinematics dealing with the bronze and black aspects make it very obvious in hindsight lol
deep pawn
I think it was always planned for later so it didn't mess up the expansion launch
Adding new type of dps while also adding all the talents likely risked too much confusion on what is good or unfun
Now most dps are in much better spots they can add something that messes with them externally
young hawk
dense plover
thats sorta clickbait isnt it?
theres no usable frostmourne or anything
there are trinkets
ionic terrace
ofc it's clickbait
harsh mason
rain cave
doronsmovies try not to clickbait challenge
harsh mason
I just now realized that Lanigosa has exactly the same model of dragon as Senegos (since the legion). This can really confuse people who haven't completed paladin quests in the legion.
austere gazelle
do these have any sort of use yet?
They do have a purpose. If Im not mistaken, there is a trinket in the new raid that as a on use effet requiring you to choose a dragon flight to gain a power matching a flight's beacon you interacted with. Those are the beacons
uncut vault
That trinket uses the Oathstones at each dragonflight hub
cosmic beacon
upper pasture
Those are gravestone markers. In the veiled ossuary they are just decoration for the most part but in other zones they are where spirit healers are.
Since the veiled ossuary is the dragon graveyard it makes sense that there’s a bunch of them
austere gazelle
That trinket uses the Oathstones at each dragonflight hub
I was mistaken then :p
harsh mason
It looks like there will be a new Tyr's quests today
deep pawn
yep, wowhead youtube spoiled even before the post
void laurel
site says that`s servers are on 😩
crystal pond
Tirisfal 
"Even your precious aspects"
Well shit
Actually funny but almost all aspects get corrupted exept Alextrasza
Even malygos in some sort of way
cosmic beacon
is that meant to be the past or present?
since thats where u recover the hpal artifact 
if im not mistaken
and u go there for sp stuff
ah wowhead post about it makes sense
plain violet
is that meant to be the past or present?
since thats where u recover the hpal ar...
Cinematic is past.
Quest is present!
crystal pond
Tyr will help with infinites and will get corrupted
dense plover
Tyr will help with infinites and will get corrupted<:dracthyr_hehe:1002363128094...
No
That’s an alternate universe
It literally says so in the journal
crystal pond
Well duh
I was just joking
Because Alextrasza said that "tyr will help with infinites" And we have corrupted version of tyr so
rain cave
https://youtu.be/UM641c-3CWc
tyrs hammer had a reinhardt skin back in legion, tyr now has reinhardts voiceactor, tyr rocket charges him off a cliff
dense plover
who does the voice acting for travard in the tomb?
i recognize the voice actor and cant remember his name for the life of me
silent urchin
Got a video or anything of it? Can't do the quest yet myself cause EU
subtle oar
https://youtu.be/UM641c-3CWc
@silent urchin
silent urchin
No travard in that, can't find any generic videos of the questline
which is weird cause normally there's at least some low effort view harvesting videos around
Can't even get good videos of him from legion, dead links all over the place
dense plover
hold on
ill find it
or not?
best i could do last minute without sharing the rest of my computer screen
realize its not a lot to work with
sorry
i got another
much better and longer
silent urchin
oh that's completely different to the legion one
dense plover
when you click him, he still has his legion voice actor
it IS someone else
but this is another clip
but i cant remember who
subtle oar
No travard in that, can't find any generic videos of the questline
Travard?
austere gazelle
Corrupted, might no be the word for Alexstrasza. Maybe she'll go anti titan like the incarnates, which would support the " alleged leak " of next expansion
eternal ermine
What’s the alleged leak?
rain cave
What’s the alleged leak?
World of Warcraft: "oops! all void!"
silent urchin
that's not even what they've been dropping hints for in game
austere gazelle
What’s the alleged leak?
The Aspects and the mortals decide to side with the Incarnate against the titans, who then proceed to attack Azeroth to make things right in their mind. We all go to Avaloren to find something to counter them ( since apparently they were never able to go there in the first place ) They're turning everyone into stone automaton etc. etc.
harsh mason
It seems to me that Alexstarsza is just freaking out because the mortals literally ruin everything they do with her flight, and she has always tried to treat them with love( even DK). I honestly feel like one day she just can't take it anymore and will freak out
If I were her, I would have eaten them all a long time ago.🗿
The mother will soon simply not be able to stand it
silent urchin
there's at least one questline yet to come out that's a lot of introspection for her
it's a bit confusing cause it was testable on PTR
rain cave
that's not even what they've been dropping hints for in game
we ain't playing the same game 😭
we're definetly in a void direction
harsh mason
In short, I think Alexstrasza just won't stand up to all this pressure. Irresponsible actions of mortals, the gradual transformation of Nozdormu into Muroz, infinite dragonflight, Incarnations, internal problems of the dragons themselves.
I don't think it's going to be about void
rain cave
oh no! alexstrasza has turned into her evil form! Stralexzaza
harsh mason
In short, I think Alexstrasza just won't stand up to all this pressure. Irrespon...
Plus, nothing can be done with Tyr's body
In other words, the mother is tired
sleek solar
The Aspects and the mortals decide to side with the Incarnate against the titans...
Oehhhh interesting!
deep pawn
They're gonna have to work SO hard for it to make sense for us to join the genocidal maniacs that want to turn us into rock
If anything forces us to side with the void or something, it'll be Yrel's Army of the Light
subtle oar
The Aspects and the mortals decide to side with the Incarnate against the titans...
That sounds like an awful idea tbh
deep pawn
I do think the speculation that perhaps Tyr when he awakens and sees only Alexstrasza still left makes him not trust her
austere gazelle
That sounds like an awful idea tbh
We will never known... WOD pitch sounded terrible. BFA too...
austere gazelle
I do think the speculation that perhaps Tyr when he awakens and sees only Alexst...
Tyr is stuck raising a hand , we can even speculate that this hand is raised toward alexstrasza
deep pawn
Well Nozdormu hasn't fallen yet
I know some swear he won't turn since we now have alternate timeline infinites
But you don't spend a decade building up this plot point to just brush it aside
Nozdormu's fall started in WRATH of all things
austere gazelle
Unless the new dungeon close this specific chapter
Nozdormu could still be replacee by chromie as an aspect anyway
Alexstrasza on the other hand... what candidates are available ?
deep pawn
there's lots of red dragons alive, her majordomo even
austere gazelle
Yeah but I mean candidate with at least a strong presence and that did something relevant
deep pawn
there's the one in charge of the Ruby Sanctum too
subtle oar
Rip Krasus
austere gazelle
Rip Krasus
Yeah...
subtle oar
His love for her was immeasurable
vernal juniper
new build?
ember blaze
ooo 
silent urchin
Undertake new repeatable content in Eon’s Fringe as you work to settle the timeways and solve the problems brought about by their instability while reaping rewards of a job well done.``` this is separate to rifts?maybe?
vernal juniper
probable
silent urchin
seems to be new quests, not the chromie/dungeon ones
nvm this is just the chromie one again, I guess it reset on me
here's the new one, in the inn at eon's fringe
quest took about 2 minutes, find the cat toy and return it to mr bigglesworth in naxx, with portals provided
she doesn't have any vendor stuff or anything
everything listed for paracausal flakes is still X as a placeholder in the journal
The encapsulated destiny is usable and gives a buff? But it doesn't have a tooltip
she needs a lot of rep
oh there's a couple more quests around the fringe too
ok the other one I found disappeared as I accepted it
silent urchin
they're pretty neat
seems that quest that disappeared does work? It's just nowhere in my log
upper pasture
who needs the new skin from raid
just use infinite skins, also the black dragon skins will no longer need to exist for me too lol
uncut vault
here's the new one, in the inn at eon's fringe
where in eons fringe is this?
silent urchin
it starts down near the bottom, from a gnome named melly teletone
oh wait, the inn
crystal pond
Infinite mounts looks yummy
silent urchin
can only be accessed by flying, slightly below the tallest spire there
that quest is from soridormi inside there
rain cave
alright guys hear me out
crystal pond
Blizzard outplayed them selfs with that
silent urchin
where in eons fringe is this?
it's hard to explain so
uncut vault
Nice, thanks
silent urchin
the other quests I've found started here
although the NPCs move around, and the tracking doesn't work
but the quests do seem to work, they first move to the upstairs in that inn
you're helping a gnome and a depressed vulpera musician
uncut vault
the other quests I've found started here
I saw that one, but she disappeared and didnt give me the quest when I accepted it lol
silent urchin
yeah the quests are buggy and don't show in the logs, but you should be able to find them in the inn
I've done about 5 or 6 in the chain so far.
uncut vault
trying to find this cat toy is gonna be a mess lol
silent urchin
the cat toy tracking was working for me, it was just a little bit north, with a sleeping cat-wyvern thing ontop of it
although really small and if the corpse ends up on top it's gonna be hard
I guess that was the end
are these that one transmog that's been in the files for ages but never released
new bartender appeared
subtle oar
https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-dragonriding-customizations-include-infinite-dr...
I want Dragonriding Noodles
upper pasture
aren't they working on them?
silent urchin
There's been some hints
upper pasture
there was literally a list of old mounts getting DR too
subtle oar
there was literally a list of old mounts getting DR too
Ye, I went thru them all, no Noodles :<
RIGHT?!
If there is one thing that could make me give up playing Wrath Classic full-time, it'd be letting me Dragonride with my noodles
Or Player housing
silent urchin
This eon's fringe questline (roughly):
Accept quest down the bottom, from Melly Teletone.
Find them upstairs in the Inn.
Wake up Pedji using an item from bob (quest says coffee, but there seems to also be a martini option)
Motivate pedji (via dialogue options)
Help clean up Eon's fringe (extra action button, run around spamming it, various objects will glow, then dissipate if you use the button when close enough. Seems to take quite a lot of them. Objects can be rocks, plants, fires, torches, etc, all over the fringe)
Go talk to investigator kandray, pretty much right below the inn, near the cabbage fields.
Kill a bunch of time slimes and loot stuff near them. These two quests still displayed as uncompleted, but could be handed in anyway.
Resynchronise some time investigators (there's three you need, one is frozen fishing at the water near the cabbage field, one is zooming around the cabbage field, and the last is walking backwards inside a building nearby)
Kill the time slime prime (about 50-100m above the quest giver, there's a little pavillion building)
Hand in back near the start, finished.
Lots of dialogue throughout, that's all pretty neat. It all seems to work fine, just lacks working quest tracking. Some of the extra action buttons were a bit off. Hopefully helps anyone wanting to go through it and get screenshots
Only reward is those sunglasses at the end
upper pasture
i'd be surprised if player housing or guild housing isn't on the radar now
silent urchin
oooh this is a neat touch, for the new daycare whelps
ember blaze
i'd be surprised if player housing or guild housing isn't on the radar now
why do you say that
dense plover
i really dont think theyll be doing it tbh - its used by such a small minority in 14
waste of dev resources
would be way smarter to continue to expand character customization
add more blue dragon type storylines
dense plover
its not
most people dont use it or if they do, they decorate it once and then never touch it again
maybe adding a new deco when a holiday gives them one or a patch adds something they like
ends up more like a tiny museum
upper pasture
tell that to the people who only do player housing stuff lol
dense plover
tell that to the people who only do player housing stuff lol
again, not a huge player base]
and ffxiv had it from the start
people arent going to sub to wow for player housing
and it will not be as customizable as 14
different engines and gameplay styles
deep pawn
FF14 housing is so scarce most people can't engage
You have apartments but they're so bare bones
lean yew
It looks like the skybox datamined wasn't for the dungeon
it's for the time rifts
Those paracausal trinkets are on the vendors now too
lean yew
250 still
subtle oar
waste of dev resources
O.o
Pretty nuclear take from Peach, wasn't expecting to see that this morning
cosmic beacon
Player housing would be kinda cool, but I’d much rather it be a thing they did after basically everything else
Like improve and sort out what the game already has then think about adding more features
midnight delta
Anyone know why i cant copy a char on Fyrakk? But the other server are fine
the list wont pop.
List of my characters
ah, worked after 3rd restart 🙂
plain violet
@uncut vault There is a big lose for roleplayers with the 10.1.5 update.
They removed the water elemental for mages, locking it behind a talent that made it appear only during Icy Vein. So glyphs and all that, useless too. Litteraly the fantasy of the frost mage since W1.... removed.
They also removed the observer customisation from warlock entirely, the one that changed the felhunter.
The reason is the obviously false "yes but PVP players could be confused by this for spells, think about spell clarity", claiming they always wanted to streamline spells to be recognizable by all, and that changing the same pet in another form would be confusing, and to be deleted.
Despite the observer pet existing as a replacement for the felhunter since 10 years..
rain cave
They'll probably add the observer back as one of the customisations no
plain violet
They'll probably add the observer back as one of the customisations no
They made a blue post about removing it and not adding it later. x_x
rain cave
And ik some people like it but to me water elemental never felt right
We're mages not shamans
plain violet
They want their way to explain they will remove it and never add it because "visual clarity"
rain cave
They have observer as a talent though don't they
plain violet
And ik some people like it but to me water elemental never felt right
Fantasy since Warcraft 1, mages have enslaved elementals.
plain violet
There is two eye thing: a CD for Affliction, and a pet for all.
They removed the pet for "visual clarity" purpose.
The pet existed since 10 years
upper pasture
they are removing it but they prolly want to readd it somehow but not promise it too early to avoid backlash if it doesn't work out right away
rain cave
Who even looks at pets though
plain violet
rain cave
What visual clarity is lost
upper pasture
pvpers
rain cave
Pets are basically training dummies outside of bm
plain violet
You know, the classical "PVPErs would be lost, bohoo"
upper pasture
yeah that lol
plain violet
But that's a big lose for roleplayers, who well.. use pets.
rain cave
Even in pvp they're not a huge deal outside of bm
And it's not visual clarity that's an issue
plain violet
That's clearly a bad excuse of Blizzard, I don't like that move.
upper pasture
i mean i get what they are trying to say but it's not that hard to learn that those two pets do the same thing tbh
rain cave
Personally outside of demo I'm not a huge fan of having demons
upper pasture
seems like it's more of an issue for newer pvp players then older ones
rain cave
If I had my way I'd run grimoiire all the time
deep pawn
Water Elementals have frequently been cool downs for mages in Warcraft. The elemental wasn't 100% uptime for wc3 right? It's an ultimate for Jaina in HotS
rain cave
Haven't they also been an annoying thing gameplay wise
Their freeze is important, but requires a macro to use efficiently
plain violet
Water Elementals have frequently been cool downs for mages in Warcraft. The elem...
It was a permanent pet since Cata, if I remember right.
rain cave
Since unlike locks who have a dedicated button for their pet skill, water element is still on the pet bar
plain violet
Coolddown only in BC and WOTLK.
Yet, yes it's not difficult to understand 2 models do the same thing...
But yeah. Bad Blizzad, bad Blizzard...
deep pawn
It's been permanent a long time but lonely winter has been around just as long.
Actually using the pet has become the domain of pvp really
plain violet
Yeah... but outside of that... while I understand balance, just deleting a perm pet is just... not good.
Especially a base fantasy of mage.
deep pawn
I'm saying it wasn't and hasn't for a while
It's not like it's going away, it's becoming their core cooldown
I'm hoping they can make it duplicate mage spells during it's duration like the Jaina ult.
sleek solar
Is there any “summary” of what the story will go to?
silent urchin
you mean in 10.1.5? Not really. I think there's quests for the dungeon that aren't in, so we miss the epilogue to that
there's some story during it but it just sort of ends right now
sleek solar
Ah okay
rain cave
I'm hoping they can make it duplicate mage spells during it's duration like the ...
That would be fun and open some cool builds if it still counts as your spells
Like the casting comet storm proc
deep pawn
They encrypt as much of the story as they can now
rose escarp
They encrypt as much of the story as they can now
Honestly, I really love that
tulip sun
@uncut vault How did you complete the main bronze quest?
It won't progress for me. Getting time-lost essences
uncut vault
Which one, the Chromie one? I already completed it last build
This build messed a lot up
plain violet
Chromie one yes!
The time rifts are really bugged, sometimes the duration end up before the timer, sometimes we wait 30mn for nothing..
tulip sun
I really wanna test the time rifts but alas
uncut lintel
we be able to use dragon riding in new dungeon?
uncut vault
Anyone know where the gnolls are for this quest? Don't show up on the map sadly
silent urchin
Not any I've seen around before. Will poke about a bit.
silent urchin
No sign of them. Did find what seems like some other quests, but not this one
uncut vault
Damn, well thanks for also looking!
silent urchin
if it is in game, I don't think it's in thaldraszus at least
ionic terrace
No sign of them. Did find what seems like some other quests, but not this one
there ws a quest from a mechgnome but she went away right before i accepted, which just so happened to be on the hour
deep pawn
It's amusing how different WoW and FF14 treat alternates we see.
WoW's points of divergence are all recent haha
So it's all just the same chars recasted
dense plover
It's amusing how different WoW and FF14 treat alternates we see.
the style of alternates is different
in wow, the origin is always the same at first
in 14, it isnt
deep pawn
it technically is, it's just so far back that it doesn't matter
mainly cause if we go back to pre sundering ever as the point of divergence nothing is really recognizable.
uncut vault
FFXIV also doesnt really have alternate universes
its time travel is extremely limited and always closed loops
the reflections are a very different kind of story
dense plover
not exactly
theyre fractures
and its not the same starting world
continents are different, races are in different places etc
deep pawn
the continents are different only cause the two examples we've seen have had massive calamities changing things
which, given those calamities, the similarities we still ended up with are amazing
It'd be like comparing an Azeroth that was never sundered vs the main timeline
tulip sun
I'm sure there is an AU as such
It just so happens that the AU we visit seem to diverge more recently in the timeline
plain violet
Even before calamities, they were pretty different, if you look at the fairy realm.. or all the different monsters...
deep pawn
We don't know when those diverged. We're talking 10k years of history where most was lost. It's not like Azeorth where we can just ask Tyrande what happened in the Sundering.
Maybe there was Faefolk in the source but they hid themselves or were killed ages ago.
plain violet
Well... we do know for example there were not really allagans in their world...
rain cave
FF14 
deep pawn
My personal guess is that some were similar up to the first calamity and then it was off to the races for each one being drastically different
Plus the fact time happens different on each one.
rain cave
there's al;ready been those theories about how behind the stained glass window is like a portal to the pure void realm
it's basically confirmed I guess already in terms of presentation
but the concept art is cool because it shows it spilling out like a gateway, and the window was at some point also potenitally going to be a door or mural
deep pawn
So not just alternate but past too
tulip sun
I'd say it is an AU past
ionic terrace
tulip sun
Not our past
deep pawn
Why not our past. He was a shadow hunter
ionic terrace
so there's a whole questline rn that doesn't show up in your log lol
ionic terrace
that's from the gnome that i thought just went away lol
silent urchin
Yeah, also didn't realise the quest was actually accepted til I spotted them upstairs in the inn later
It's a fairly neat questline
silent urchin
he's still pretty zoomy even after you dispell him, not sure if that's a bug
but was easy enough anyway
silent urchin
It was revealing bartender blob in the inn, but that was about it
you could also get it from the gnome outside at the fountain, but still said "don't take it out of the inn"
didn't find any other use for it though
ionic terrace
if you want to test anything from the vendors, you can do voljins quest over and over rn
uncut vault
Yeah I was about to say that lol, it just repeats
kinda sad, I wanted to see where his portal goes
ionic terrace
the trinkets might be worth testing
frostmourne turns you into a lich
tho im a caster so could be different
crystal pond
Kick de babe
crystal pond
Left and right just standing there 
deep pawn
I just convinced myself we'll see a Vakthros dungeon in season 3 that has the blue dragons delving into it
The Nexus guy is in charge, gnome for comic relief, Haleh to decurse something
Second new dungeon will be raid adjacent lol
crystal pond
I heard from my discord that the reason why Wrathion is treated so badly and favoritism towards Ebyssian is because the return of Metzen in company 💀
plain violet
Without a proof.. :(
crystal pond
Without a proof.. :(
The only proof they said is that metzen wasnt at company in bfa, and that story was sadenly rewrited a bit for greens and blacks
We will know for sure after the expansions probably
plain violet
We will know for sure, but that seem strange as a proof. xD
silent urchin
It was announced he'd be part time, yes. Very little beyond that.
I'd be surprised if 10.1 hadn't been largely story locked at the time that started, anyway
There's a group that work on the story. They'll all have varying amounts of input. People have just always loved to hate on whoever has given the most recent interview, really
rain cave
I heard from my discord that the reason why Wrathion is treated so badly and fav...
wrathion isn't even being treated badly
dude's on the loading screen and has been core to the plot for the entire xpac so far 💀
if anything's he's getting favouritism
uncut vault
because everyone knows that being on a loading screen and being present in the plot means your story is good
rain cave
I never said that
I just said he's not being treated badly
the writers obviously don't dislike him
which is what (idk what this guys name even is) was talking about
uncut vault
his entire plot this xpac has been to show why the arc he was building towards since Cata is wrong actually, and why Ebyssian is better for the role
its not Sylvanas tier but it's not good treatment lol
rain cave
that's not what we're talking about though
we're not talking about the quality of writing
we're talking about if the writers are treating him good
if they like the character
uncut vault
he's been shown in nothing but a negative light in repeatedly contradictory ways to convince the audience that he is unfit, that's not treating him good lol
rain cave
look at like, banjo kazooie nuts and bolts, that game opens with them basically insulting the previous game.
that's them not treating their source material right
regardless of the quality of what comes next
we can debate wrathion's story quality
but it's evident that the writers love him
uncut vault
and 10.1.5 literally has a quest where you punch him for laughs
rain cave
yeah
crystal pond
This is not looks like they like him lol
rain cave
and 10.1.5 literally has a quest where you punch him for laughs
the closest he's come to his dads legacy ong
but the 10.1.5 quests are cheeky, they're not like active malice against the characters
uncut vault
he was barely even in 10.1, the story repeatedly shoved him to the side to do literally nothing because it wanted to focus on other characters
crystal pond
If writers actually loved him they would make him aspect and not rewriting his character (after BFA) just to uplift another character
rain cave
he's one of the main characters of 10.1
what are you talking about lmao
wrathion isn't worthy of being aspect
rain cave
If writers actually loved him they would make him aspect and not rewriting his c...
did you not play the campaign he doesn't even want it anymore
uncut vault
and what did he do of narrative worth in the 10.1 campaign leading up to the raid?
uncut vault
sabellian did plenty
there's a whole chapter about him and ebyssian exploring their relationship
uncut vault
he gained a bond with his brother, explored the reasons why he leads in the ruthless way that he does, and set up a seed of trepidation for what those actions lead to in order to lead into the raid plot
Wrathion legitimately just silently walks off screen and stops being mentioned multiple times because the plot doesnt want to deal with him lol
crystal pond
Wrathion was just used as a background for almost all 10.1 campaign
uncut vault
and only shows up to be inanely tone deaf, get chastised, and not actually grow or change, just stand while Ebyssian says a speech
his whole origins are around being an experimental tool, and he doesn't have a single positive interaction with the dracthyr past their starting zone
his entire BfA plot about learning to not be reckless with the lives of others for his own plans is tossed out for the sake of showing his youth, and putting him at odds with Emberthal and Sabellian
His motivations are replaced with a carbon copy of Sabellian's desires to be like Neltharion, because it's easier to chastise them at the same time via Ebyssian
and his plot ultimately ends with... saying the exact same thing he said at the start of the expansion, but tacking on "but I wont do it as Aspect"
silent urchin
I feel like I played a completely different campaign in 10.1
uncut vault
because the plot he was in ultimately existed to serve Ebyssian, not himself
rain cave
but then what if the BFA plot was the out of place one?
that was the one headed by the now fired guy after all
wrathion has always been a reckless cocky lil bastard
uncut vault
Yes, in MoP... and then his whole progression into BfA was learning from those mistakes lol
rain cave
and if you look at the campaign as a set up for ebyssian bcoming aspects it makes way more sense
uncut vault
if we're just writing out old plots and saying "afrasiabi was around then so it's okay", I'd like the banshee queen back in 11.0 lol
rain cave
because of course it will focus on him if they intended for him to become black aspect
rain cave
if we're just writing out old plots and saying "afrasiabi was around then so it'...
I mean that's literally what they're doing with sylvanas
uncut vault
the campaign does a terrible job at that too lol
rain cave
in terms of plot
uncut vault
given he's literally not in 10.0 past the dracthyr stuff
and doesnt speak with a single black dragon beyond his two brothers at any point the entire expansion
nor does he actually develop out of his passivity and refusal to take direct action
rain cave
sylvanas's plot in the latter half of SL was basically a meta commentary on how she wouldn't actually do that and is horrified at her own actions
uncut vault
traits very much required for someone to take up the role of earth warder
rain cave
the earthwarder doesn't need to talk to other black dragons
silent urchin
Pretty sure we spent almost exactly as much time with wrathion as with sabellian, and their stories are almost identical. They bicker a lot, but the first thing they both do after being separated is ask if the other is ok. Then they each get a wing in the raid that makes them realise that working together is better than being alone. It's not a particularly complex or deep story, admittedly.
uncut vault
the earth warder is literally the leader of a dragonflight lol
rain cave
yeah so
that's not the primary job
earth warder wants to protect the earth, protect the mortal races. Ebyssian lived alongside them, pretended to be one. He's always strived to protect people.
uncut vault
Its almost like Neltharion taking the role solely on his own shoulders has been repeatedly shown as a bad thing and the primary reason for his downfall
and then Ebyssian takes zero efforts to meaningfully address that in the process of taking up the role
crystal pond
wrathion has always been a reckless cocky lil bastard
So the progression of characters is just standing in one place for years or what?
Its actually growing
Yeah he was a child
But he actually growing up so his character growing as well too
This is just how life works in general
rain cave
wrathion has developed as a character
uncut vault
in the very same patch where the blue dragons have a whole questline about reuniting to properly fulfill their role as a dragonflight, no less
rain cave
but development doesn't just mean negatives become positives
uncut vault
What development has he had in Dragonflight?
rain cave
you can develop in parallel, tangentially, positively, negatively
uncut vault
that he didn't already have prior to this story?
rain cave
What development has he had in Dragonflight?
rediscovering there's another claim to the throne he wanted, that there were more black dragons
realizing he doesn't just have free reign
getting his ass humbled multiple times
uncut vault
again, developments that he didnt already have prior to this story?
He was already humbled and reigned in by the disastrous legion invasion he helped cause
rain cave
his entire story this xpac has been him walking in thinking he owns the place, then actually getting called out on his BS. Facing the music and now he's realized that he doesn't actually think that he's suitable for the role of aspect
he wasn't humbled by that
he wasn't even IN legion
we don't know what his reaction was
uncut vault
he literally isolated himself for years out of guilt, and went on a journey of learning to realize the extent of his actions
rain cave
where's the quest for that
silent urchin
blizz do still seem afraid at putting in too much text/dialogue on the main campaign. But ebyssian does mention he's going to keep working with wrathion and sabellian, and they are still standing around next to him. I wouldn't say that's zero effort
uncut vault
his agents and his journal stories were
it was a quest showing us his journey between MoP and BfA
with his journal culminating in him learning from the mistakes Medivh made
silent urchin
The intention for all three of them to be playing a hand in leading the flight does seem to be there.
rain cave
regardless, you can't pretend that private journal entries are going to reflect somebodys external persona
uncut vault
he wrote said journal for the player to find
rain cave
if anything it's more realistic character development to still have somebody all fucked up even after some reflection
people don't just lock themselves in a room for a couple years and come out their best self
uncut vault
I never said he came out his best self
he came out with plenty of flaws, and plenty of new ones developed
but he had learned from his recklessness with the lives of others very explicitly
Dragonflight ignores that for the sake of pitting him against Sabellian and allowing Ebyssian to chastise him
rain cave
you saying he doesn't need chastising?
sabellian also had as equal a claim as wrathion, that storyline was kind of obvious
crystal pond
people don't just lock themselves in a room for a couple years and come out thei...
Actually they do lmao
Alot historical people was isolated and come back as different person or better person
uncut vault
chastising him for actions that are written solely to be chastised for and not to fit the character's development is not what I would call care for a character, no lol
rain cave
if the story had just been, wrathion walks in "I have learned from my mistakes make me aspect" with no competition, we wouldn't have had the cool dynamic between the 3 we have now
uncut vault
you mean... the plot we basically got with ebyssian? lol
he has a single moment of reflection for a flaw that isnt even actually a flaw in 10.0.7
and then spends the entirety of 10.1 weakly lecturing his brothers, doing nothing of mateiral value
rain cave
ebyssian wears whatever flaws he has on his wrist
uncut vault
and then becoming Aspect
rain cave
he was nominated
uncut vault
his inaction and passivity are good flaws, theyre just flaws the story entirely ignores
rain cave
he isn't inactive or passive
uncut vault
because it doesnt seem to see an issue with them
rain cave
he was very active in 10.1
because he was sick of his inaction when he was on the broken isles
uncut vault
standing around and lecturing people is not something I would call action lol
"yeah sure, there's literally a guy trying to claim my father's power and become a void monster, but Im not gonna help because uh... a lesson needs to be learned"
rain cave
man literally went into the djaradin HQ, helped fight fyrakk, helped track down sarkareth, helped the niffen
uncut vault
his entire role in the third chapter was advising Sabellian to not fight Fyrakk lol
uncut vault
everything he ends up doing in 10.1 is solely reactionary to other peoples' actions
he never steps up to actually make the calls or push the plot forward
which is a passive character in a plot lol
rain cave
how do you notice these things porter
like I don't understand how you can sit down and like read it and kind of come to the talking points you're saying
uncut vault
because I play through the campaigns multiple times and analyse them in depth?
I talk with other people to hear their reactions and try to evaluate the meta roles characters play in a narrative
rain cave
why do you play multiple times bruh 💀
rain cave
oof that's rough
I hate having to do the same quest multiple times
I usually just play through the quests and use wowhead for extra details
I still need to finish the post raid part of the campaign
but I haven't got a guild to do sarkareth with
so I haven't been playing much
uncut vault
the post raid story is definitely the best of the main campaign
mostly because it and the raid just separate Sabellian and Wrathion from Ebyssian and let them react to things on their own terms lol
but it ultimately has a big flaw in that nothing either of them learn really lend towards them giving up their bid for Aspect
what Wrathion learns in Aberrus are basically just... things he already knew, because prior to DF he wasn't trying to be like his father at all
and Sabellian's lessons feel like they'd lend towards him becoming a more balanced leader and stop holding Neltharion and Deathwing as two separate people, but instead he chooses to simply give it up entirely
I came into the expansion not really liking or caring about Sabellian at all, and ended 10.1 wanting him to be Aspect more than either of the other two lol
rain cave
sabellian isn't cut out to be earth warder at all
uncut vault
because he has the best actual arc of the three, of learning from the mistakes of his flight's past, putting aside the idolation of his father, and coming to accept his brothers despite their origins
rain cave
man doesn't even know earth magic
and he'd be terrible at the goal of earth warder, since he was pretty uncaring about mortals
uncut vault
I mean 10.1.5 calls Ebyssian a weak, innefective dragon with regards to earth magic lol
thats not really an issue when they get empowered
rain cave
ebyssian's a strong shaman though is he not
uncut vault
compared to an actual dragon's magic? 10.1.5 lays out that he'd have been stomped by Adamanthia if the player dracthyr hadn't saved him lol
uncut vault
and he'd be terrible at the goal of earth warder, since he was pretty uncaring a...
he was uncaring about a lot of things, but that's part of what his arc does through aberrus, makes him realize that emulating his father in his amoral disregard for non-dragons is a mistake
and he comes to respect Wrathion's care and alliances with mortals as a result
plain violet
Looks like Ebyssian have the stupid ball time with the "weakness of tauren magic".
However really don't understand the point of this update of quest, it just depict Adamanthia in bad light, with a strange twist on history because taurens were non-existent at Adamanthia period.
rain cave
Looks like Ebyssian have the stupid ball time with the "weakness of tauren magic...
it's probably because he has a bad case of "only allowed to use the same color magic as his faction/race"
because story writing
because god forbid he ever uses magic that's not earth that he just learned like anyone else
plain violet
it's probably because he has a bad case of "only allowed to use the same color m...
Agreed. Even more strange he was using elemental magic in Legion and the comic.
(thunder and water spells)
rain cave
I smile whenever I see jaina use arcane and fire magic even though she's mainly a frost mage
because even if she likes frost, she's still a fucking archmage basically she's a master of everything
plain violet
I can picture the "Ebyssian is weak in reality" but the update of text is really strange, don't understand the sudden jab at taurens in general, like their weakness would be a race thing, Adamanthia sudden mood, and the contradiction in history.
uncut vault
the idea of Ebyssian having a very different kind of magic is honestly nice, it's just kinda lame to frame it as literally physically weak
I'd rather Adamanthia look down on it because it's mortal techniques, but have Ebyssian clearly hold his own
plain violet
because even if she likes frost, she's still a fucking archmage basically she's ...
Agreed with that, that's nice to see, people in WoW are not one-element.
plain violet
I'd rather Adamanthia look down on it because it's mortal techniques, but have E...
Agreed!
uncut vault
because in the end he's a 10k year old dragon lol
crystal pond
I smile whenever I see jaina use arcane and fire magic even though she's mainly ...
She just changing spec nothing interesting
plain violet
the idea of Ebyssian having a very different kind of magic is honestly nice, it'...
One thing that also bother me on that is that.. wells taurens are not litteraly physicially weak.
That's part of the reasons Legion was interested in them, mogus were interested in them..
uncut vault
well compared to a dragon they are haha, but I think she's referring to their magic and their connection to the earth
plain violet
Depicting their physique/magic as weak in a inherent way is... strange.
rain cave
That's part of the reasons Legion was interested in them, mogus were interested ...
mogus 
uncut vault
she probably would see it as weak given black dragons' inherent connection
she just yknow... shouldnt be correct lol
plain violet
Compared to a dragon, I can understand clearly.
But it is not depicted as "well she bloat" but as a "yeah you are right and correct Adamanthia aha"
uncut vault
Ebyssian is the most connected of his three brothers to the earth because of his time with the tauren, not despite it
plain violet
Yes, Taurens and earthmother, after all.
They do have a good chamanistic connection, even more if we do quests in Highmountain.
uncut vault
its something I wish the campaign had explored a bit better, that each brother has an aspect of earth warder that they connect to best, and others that they lack
plain violet
Like how Sabellian was caster, Irion a rogue, etc. That would have been nice to explore more.
uncut vault
Sabellian is the most connected to their draconic heritage, but lacks on fulfilling the role or working with others, Ebyssian is most connected to the earth itself, but lacks a wordly view and broad perspective, Wrathion is most connected to mortals as a whole and the role of protecting the planet, but lacks a connection to his heritage
crystal pond
Compare to dragons taurens are weak
And if you think about the fact that Adamantia is old af and was in presence of Neltharion and Djaradin you would understand why she called Ebyssian weak
uncut vault
those are all very interesting and balanced flaws
It's part of what connects back to earlier with Wrathion not being treated very well narratively: there are very solid reasons why he shouldn't be Aspect. He's made an enemy of a lot of his own people, he lacks a connection to his heritage, and he is ultimately more at home among mortals than other dragons. His yearning for a home and a purpose doesn't need to mean the dragon isles or the role of Aspect
the plot just... didn't use any of those set up from his short story haha
it reverted back to his flaws in MoP and amplified those to parallel Sabellian, rather than letting their individual flaws stand on their own
plain violet
Well, even with that, only his visage is tauren, not really his genetic, so blaming on that...
Calling Ebyssian weak is not really the problem, it's more the details around.
plain violet
the plot just... didn't use any of those set up from his short story haha
I agree with the analyze. :(
Wrathion not being an Aspect is OK. Destroying developpement for the sake of it... no thanks.
plush mortar
I for one think Boromir should have been king. the fact that some lame hobo from the north was made king instead of Boromir was just lazy writing by catholic J.R.R Tolkien. All because Protestant Lord Protectorate is bad. Wait am i in the wrong discord?
subtle oar
I for one think Boromir should have been king. the fact that some lame hobo from...
Out.
Bad
pulsar minnow
As much as I didn’t like what they did with Wrathion’s character in making him a reckless idiot, I do think he remained consistent in what he wanted out of being the aspect - which is why he didn’t get it. So it makes sense in the end
Wrathion never knew Neltharion, so he was basically trying to mimic what his head canon of what Neltharion was before the fall, and be that himself. (Ofc while being terrified of becoming Deathwing.)
Sabellian was just a “soldier following orders” but eventually realized, with Wrathion how messed up Neltharion was even before his downfall. Ebyssian was the only one ever fully aware of the full picture
silent urchin
oh hey cause without a rebel finally live
ionic terrace
plain violet
New Talent: Rising Light, Falling Night – Increases your damage and healing by 3% during the day. Increases your Versatility by 2% during the night.
Well that's funny!
ivory meadow
another week, still no rogue changes 😢
plain violet
And they persist on the removal of water elemental and observer...
silent urchin
Oooh, some old unobtainable patterns becoming reobtainable
Added Archaeology bar.``` 👀updated icons for talents and stuff
dense plover
```EDIT MODE
Added Archaeology bar.``` 👀
archaeology coming back in 10.2?
silent urchin
wouldn't be certain
dense plover
¯_(ツ)_/¯
silent urchin
new icons for the patch quests too
silent urchin
the encapsulated destiny from the inn daily now has a description
dense plover
new icons for the patch quests too
confused about the purpose of this
are they weekly?
silent urchin
I'm guessing it's to indicate patch story but not main campaign story
dense plover
do we finally have weekly indicators?
candid ruin
Archaeology coming (soon) 
dense plover
oh
silent urchin
nah, those are the ones for unlocking the dungeon
I think this has more detail now too
ionic terrace
dense plover
what event is secrets of azeroth?
dense plover
colors are back!
plain violet
Nice!
dense plover
ooooo - i havent played with the edit mode in this version - i love the red snap lines
silent urchin
I'm guessing this is for another one of the dailies
crystal pond
Odd, I don't see it on my calendar
Its probably encrypted
dense plover
silent urchin
Melly/Pedgi quests still don't track or show up at all
dense plover
finally! sell all junk!
i dont need an addon anymore!
i didnt even see it in the notes
silent urchin
oh hey, yeah
still gonna use an addon cause adibags has it and can filter more than just grey items as junk
but still, neat
silent urchin
All those pet placeholders on time rift vendors seem to be implemented now
to an extent
also just a hell of a lot of bronze dragonflight themed gear for gold on a vendor there now
Apparently mythic gear is now a new upgrade track,
441/444/447
woven pelican
have seen several people linking this looks like 10.1.5 is gonna convert mythic drops to have an upgrade track and we love this personally
I wonder if it updates old pieces or just new drops
silent urchin
Not sure, the person that linked this in game got it off their vault
apparently no changes to hero track either, that's still just up to 5
woven pelican
I mean yeah that makes sense
I hope this myth track is just from mythic raid and only takes aspect crests
silent urchin
I would expect it to also come from vault at appropriate ilvls
uncut vault
not sure if this was a bug or a part of an actual quest lol
gold prices for these are surely placeholder, right?
dense plover
gold prices for these are surely placeholder, right?
my guess is theyre going to use a currency like the elemental dust
silent urchin
It would make sense for them to also be paracausal fragments
rain cave
wonder if we'll see pandaren heritage armor anytime soon
also wonder what it'll look like
sleek solar
Core races*
No
Classic races
Races that were first
From wow classic
Old
Vanilla
OG races
subtle oar
Classic races
This is already incorrect as Worgen and Goblin got their heritage armors
sleek solar
Void elf, nightborne and other too
That doesn’t mean they cant suddenly focus on some races first
Orc and Human were last
uncut vault
based on one of the datamined items on the PTR being a naaru hearthstone, it's likely that draenei and trolls are next up in 10.1.7, assuming they do one each patch cycle
they're almost certainly not going to do night elves until their story with the world tree is (finally) concluded and they're in a secure place to look back at their heritage from
and forsaken are their counterpart nowadays so saving them for later is likely too
glass flicker
Me getting my human heritage: Thank you, you repulsive disappointment.
rain cave
They can focus on any of the core races next
pandaren aren't really a core race tbh
depends on what you define core race as but