beta-ptr-spoilers

[austere gazelle]

And if we take the cinematic as gospel, then even the dragon looking at the Maelstrom from Valdrakken / Tyrhold does not make sense. Since those part of the islands are not facing toward the center of Kalimdor

And if those would have been separated, they would have been pulled a lot more away in the actual world map

[plain violet]

Oh, would you have a source for that please? It's really interesting.

The Broodlands, I mean!

[austere gazelle]

Collector edition artwork book

[plain violet]

Would you please have a picture... 🥺

I would really love to share it to my friends.

(because we had the discussion)

[austere gazelle]

Ahah you'll make me pull it from the box, I'll do it

[plain violet]

Aha sorry for pulling it out, but thanks!

[austere gazelle]

Humpf... forgot my book is in french ahav

[upper pasture]

give me a few

ill get a photo

[austere gazelle]

Page 7

there is also the Veritistrasz lore quest that mentions it in game

Veritistrasz says: I grew up here, when it was called the Broodlands.

[plain violet]

No worries, I am french. ❤️

Thanks!

[upper pasture]

oh works out then lol

[plain violet]

Ahaha! Yeah, I know english, french, spanish..

[austere gazelle]

as for the Maaruk

it'd've been mentionned if the Centaurs would have needed to go there by boats

[plain violet]

Yeah, that was an argument of me at the time... that if would have been boats if isles, but some were really thinking it was just a matter of saying. But this is really clearly "by foot"

[austere gazelle]

I mean everything in game is telling that it was part of the mainland before the sundering, the only things telling otherwise are the cinematics, so that's why I came to conclusion that the cinematic were made before they retconned their original idea, or that they made a mistake of their part when thinking about " Dragon isles " and forgot it was not always islands

[plain violet]

And the fact it was not named "isles" at first...

I think it's the mistake when thinking of it, yeah.

WOuld not surprise me of Blizzard, and that does happen!

[austere gazelle]

yeah, wouldn't be the first time... looking at Nazjatar and Nzoth's prison location

[plain violet]

... You're right aha. :')

Or broken isles.

[formal pollen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/11ov1qk/new_evoker_spec_datamining_findings/

[ember blaze]

👀

🙏 please be real

[harsh mason]

I think that if it happens, that in 10.1.5 or 10.1.7. In 10.1 it will definitely not be, and in 10.2 it will not be convenient to add a new spec at the beginning of the season

[dense plover]

if it was to happen it would be a major patch at season start

exactly BECAUSE its the start of the season

and people are coming back

[upper pasture]

it would be a pretty cool way to add a 3rd spec to evokers and it would like be a S3 or S4 type thing after a huge event

[deep pawn]

Regarding Elune and Anshe, he could just be another life deity but one more associated with light. All the pantheons seem to have overlap. Oddly enough we haven't ran into a decay Titan. I know Argus was called the death Titan but his powers weren't decay like Maldraxxus

For sure there's a decay god in the life realms.

Bastion while it doesn't use the light directly is very light coded

And all realms seem to be able to interact. Light and void both attacked death

[worn crown]

If it is real, then only a 3rd spec for DHs will be left! Maybe in the next demon-focused xpac (I do think we will, eventually, have one)

[deep pawn]

I don't think we'll see Demons again. The legion is broken and their fast rebirth cycle is gone.

Those that are left are much more mortal than they were before

Still extremely chaotic but hopefully not stupid

[subtle oar]

We will

Sargeras was a Titan, a being of Order. He was not the leader of Chaos

We have yet to see any of the Pantheon of Chaos

[deep pawn]

Assuming such a thing can even exist

The innate aspects of chaos could prevent a leader from actually rising and holding on

Either from betrayal, revolt, or the powers just constantly driving people mad.

[rain cave]

3rd spec for DH was probably the 2H spec they teased in legion

since I feel they developed it a bit before scrapping it

since we have that soul scythe character who was shown off a weird amount in legion questing and DH stuff

[deep pawn]

It was even an "artifact"

2h staff/polearm dh could be cool

But I feel like a lot of the animations it'd use would make monks sad

Which would be on theme for DH

2h dh could be dragoon like

[signal bone]

i don't see what the big deal is with the evoker stuff, it's probably just leftover stuff from pre-df development

they're not getting a 3rd spec, at least not mid-expansion. Maybe like a green-fire equivalent (black df)

[dense plover]

except theres more of it

if it was leftover it wouldve been in 10.0

its weird

especially with the mail that specifically talks about 10.0.7

[deep pawn]

Also references an npc that isn't in game yet

The interviews also said Ebyssian had a role in 10.1 too without being too specific

[silent urchin]

yeah he's around in a few places in the new zone

[uncut lintel]

wat would the new spec even be

[deep pawn]

Speculation is tank or a new type of support role

[uncut lintel]

tank pl

z

[deep pawn]

With Emberthal right?

[silent urchin]

In the main town, yeah, as a blue and white square

but also spotted him elsewhere too

[upper pasture]

no, new support class plz

[uncut lintel]

what wuld even be new support

we hae everything already with the two

[uncut vault]

the PH quests are also in the files

specifically talk about Adamanthia and freeing her

[dense plover]

yeah

theres no way it was 'leftover'

its too specific to stuff that isnt big enough to warrant being pre-planned

[deep pawn]

I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks when we see the 10.0.7 finale

Plus blizzard loves leaks for hype

[uncut vault]

If it is delayed, its probably to 10.2 to be marketable as a full new season/patch thing

and if its scrapped, its at least a sign that they're not opposed to adding new specs to classes on principle, nor opposed to it mid-xpac

[deep pawn]

My guess is they wanted to just test the zone and m+ first before the spec and/or it's a spoiler for 10.0.7

The cinematic they shared doesn't show much at all beyond Aberrus

I have to imagine there's another cinematic coming that shows Iridikron's gambit being formed.

[formal pollen]

It's not though, as it was was specifically added between 10.0.5 and 10.1

[harsh mason]

As a expansion, it is unlikely, but still the demons did not go anywhere and in the form of a side quest they can make getting the 3rd spec

[dense plover]

a lot of the demons died

or were scattered to the twisting nether

[harsh mason]

And what if many died? There are still sooooooo many of them (plus they are reborn into twisting nether). They are simply disorganized, but nothing prevents some mighty Eredar from gathering an army of demons around him, absolutely nothing. Demons are not creatures that can be defeated simply by killing them.

We defeated the burning legion, not the demons in general.

[echo sandal]

I wonder what happened to Antorus after the raid. Was it just left completly empty or is the Army of the Light still there in the lore? I never understood why there are no small objectives in raids to investigate further than just running through and killing everything that comes in our way.

[harsh mason]

finally

the chain mail was updated

[signal bone]

any chances of seeing the scarlet crusade / medivh armor?

[little hound]

Where did you find this.

[crystal pond]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/hd-scalemail-armor-set-models-in-patch-10-1-331826?webhook

[austere gazelle]

in the death of Chromie the notes said that the demons, the elementals, the dragon where on mortal sides so... maybe the remnant of the burning legion will shows up to side with us against a new threat ( Eredar allied race xD ahah )

[plush mortar]

Imo some of the remaining Eredar will show up at the exodar and be class trainers for draenei warlocks. I think locks will be available to all races and this will be the lore reason.

[silent blaze]

Pft

We won't get a new allied race

[uncut lintel]

youre right

we wont

we will get them all

[deep pawn]

Fel is naturally consuming of life energy and chaos seems antithetical to civilization but I'm sure they'd pick survival over whatever the void promises

Granted we don't know what the voids ultimate goal is beyond the fact they tend to leave worlds all tendrilly

The illidari are still around and as far as we've seen their demonic allies have stuck around

[obtuse vine]

i mean they can have denathrius take over the legion remnants with his nathrezim

tichondrius would still be around probably

[little hound]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431886188887146516/1084583026144583689/image.png

Lookin' nice.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431886188887146516/1084582952375169125/image.png

[harsh mason]

These are probably boss models without plates. He will lose them during the battle

[little hound]

Yup.

[harsh wedge]

If I'm not mistaken in the dungeon journal the boss literally loses plates during it so yes

[little hound]

Wish Dragonflight gave us big dragons to ride too, or least these customizations 😄

Shadowflame Dragon is badass.

[little hound]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/npc=201817/elementium-dragon

[harsh mason]

Look at his CustomSpell 8 and 9, it's gorgeous

[little hound]

Omg 😮

[crystal pond]

Now imagine deathwing without any plates

[deep pawn]

We saw that. It was madness of deathwing

He didn't have bones

[harsh mason]

Kazzara (that's the name of this dragon) is more like Nefarian and Onyxia (also essentially undead). And Neltharion became literally a molten mass

[crystal pond]

Oh ebonhorn, wrathion and sabellian will actively help us :o

Is that possible there can be cutscenes in raid?

I mean not at the end of the raid, but in raid it self

[deep pawn]

Has happened before for small stuff

Firelands bridge, in ICC after we beat Saurfang, etc

[harsh wedge]

Recently, after beating Dormazain where you have Garrosh finishing it is also a cinematic in the middle of the raid

[rain cave]

also Carapace of nzoth, Anduin

[crystal pond]

Is that unique model with scales on hands?
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/npc=200172/wrathful-memory#models

Or we had this before?

[dense plover]

pretty sure thats the gloves

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/item=199374/firestorm-crushers

https://wow.zamimg.com/modelviewer/ptr/webthumbs/item/187/656315.webp

[crystal pond]

Oh alright then 👌

[deft carbon]

Aroim from Twitter found a slitherdrake model in the game location, I found it too and just look at those animations! I love it so much <3

[candid ruin]

can't wait to have that dragon

[deft carbon]

Can be found here if someone wants to watch animation by himself (using Narcissus addon)

[dense plover]

FYI, no need to spoiler tag in this channel

It’s the spoiler channel

[uncut lintel]

HUH

primal choas removed

💀

[silent urchin]

it was a pretty boring thing

[uncut lintel]

annoying too yes

means more bag space atleast

[upper pasture]

You mean you have more than one stack of primal chaos don’t those stack to 999?

[uncut lintel]

yup

one

bag space

wait

no i misread

im just happy for one bag space

[upper pasture]

But hey atleast we can sell the depleted primal chaos?

[uncut lintel]

ofc idont farm currencies u know me

[upper pasture]

1g a pop! Woo big gains coming

[deep pawn]

that's good, chaos was kinda annoying

[subtle oar]

GIB NOODLE!

[crystal pond]

💀

Have no idea why he is in caverns

[plain violet]

I think he's having his best time here.

[little hound]

Or just go into PTR Wowhead, dressing room and check the Slitherdrake there 🙂

[dense plover]

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1635402902692073472

MrGM (@MrGMYT)

In Patch 10.1 it seems like the Blue Dragonflight story might take us over to Winterspring as there appears to be a new area featuring an encrypted High Elf NPC

Twitter · Mar 13, 2023, 10:10 PM

[subtle oar]

N O O D L E

[little hound]

Kirygosa or whatever her name was In Dragon Soul

[uncut vault]

Tyrigosa was there, Kirygosa sadly hasn’t shown up in game yet

I hope she does, she deserves some happy, non-gross story

[uncut lintel]

THE YSERA COLOR THEMED DRUID TIER SET I NEEED

[rain cave]

Just realized the new noodle dragons look like the dragon that came from the dragon soul

considering the dragonsoul was forged by neltharion, and they're being found around his lab

possible connection?

the dragon soul is very lighty

perhaps he was experimenting with other things besides shadowflame

or was trying to find a way to contain shadowflame

[dense plover]

the dragon soul store mount thing?

pretty sure thats more like a cloud serpent than these

these use a unique skeleton

[uncut vault]

he's talking lore 😛

A lot of Tyr's titanic stuff in Tyrhold has a golden hue to it like that, so it could be him experimenting with how to incorporate their titan-given powers into the dragon soul

They even made one of the tail options exactly like the Heart of the Aspects

[dense plover]

huh ok

might even be the same skeleton

huh

[glass flicker]

It is the same skeleton. Just updated with new options, and given grounded options instead of flying all the time.

[rain cave]

yeah we originally thought dragonsoul was cloud serpenty but looking at the new models, it's more similar to those

[deep pawn]

It might be something they are running with now, but wasn't intended at the time I'm sure

[dense plover]

no way it was planned

that mount was WAY too long ago

[deep pawn]

Likely just prepping that long model for the next year of the dragon

Updating animations and all

Dragon is next after all and it'll likely have to be ready to go inside 10.2

Ooo, wood dragon

That is a very nice coincidence though. Getting the Dragon Isles conclusion during the year of the dragon

We're clearly being set up for something about the basic cosmology being wrong and the Titans themselves are unaware of it.

[ember blaze]

any signs at a new build? 🤔

[dense plover]

No

You’ll see something today probably

They do vendor builds the day of or day before

[deft carbon]

Oh, it fixed now! Animations of a Slitherdrake was broken id PTR dressing room, but now its ok ^^

[rain cave]

I just had a flash on my head of imagining if the deathwing we killed was just a fake copy of neltharion and we actually find him trapped underground

Made me laugh

Because that would be bruh

[rose escarp]

I still find it really odd that we've got no mention of Tarecgosa yet, considering how tied in she was in his ascension, and the whole theme of the Azure Span... and how easily it could be made into a bonus Highland Drake skin 😄

[signal bone]

are there any dragon mount models that are aren't used as a basis for the dragonriding mounts? i.e., one we might get in 10.2 / .3

[dense plover]

Only the slither Drake

Any others will have to be made later

[harsh mason]

Should there be a new build today? Unknown?

[deep pawn]

Unlikely today

[rain cave]

wonder if the slither drakes unique dragonriding ability will be an eathglide or something

slithering through rocks

[ionic terrace]

10.1 realms went down so likely build today

[upper pasture]

they don't have unique abilities?

[uncut vault]

the patch does basically introduce that idea for all five of the dragons though, gaining passive vigor back when gliding along the ground

[upper pasture]

oh, that's neat i was hoping we'd get some sort of paaaive vigor back while being closer to the ground as a risk reward type thing.

[ember blaze]

evoker third spec reveal surely 🙏

[upper pasture]

i'd love that buff spec honestly i love being useful for everyone and not really like just dpsing/healing.

[clear parrot]

Buff evoker is basically the god of carry

[rain cave]

they do

each dragon you unlock also unlocks a respective ability

e.g. the highland drake gives you the big 3 vigor boost

the weird bronze one you get has the bronze recall ability

the green one unlocks the wind thing

so yeah if what porter is saying is true sounds like that could be it I guess?

[upper pasture]

Yes but they aren’t unique to the drake

[rain cave]

yeah but they're unlocked by that drake

they're the abilitie added by unlocking that drake

if that makes sense

[upper pasture]

It’s just an ability you unlock with the drake

[rain cave]

ye

and they're a bit themed around the drake you get

not too hard but

like green dragon, ohnaran plains, gives you access to the ohnara wind things

[upper pasture]

I understand now just unique makes it sound like it’s tied right with the drake and only USA le by said drake

[rain cave]

and the bronze dragon you get from doing bronze quests gives you the time recall thing

[upper pasture]

Usable

[rain cave]

aye

anyway can't wait to earthglide into iridikron and ant-man him

[upper pasture]

But it’s not, it’s usable by all drakes. I just don’t want to have to unfavorable my drakes and use the BiS one in each zone

[dense plover]

and in this case, the new ability isnt unlocked with the drake

its just in the tree

you just find the new glyphs

just like the ones in forbidden reach

[upper pasture]

does 10.1 have a new dragon riding talent too? i didn't look when i got on briefly to look at raid boss names

[rain cave]

https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/1635668680666128386

love the laugh

[ember blaze]

A lot of people are apprehensive at the idea

their main concern being balance and "mandatory" stuff

or just thinking it would be too big of a change to introduce

[dense plover]

oh talent

derp

no

got confused because like ability and glyph talents

theres the glyph one they added - ground skimming

[ionic terrace]

build out

[plain violet]

Let's check out.

[ionic terrace]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/dragonflight-embers-of-neltharion-ptr-development-notes/1541379/4

[mossy meteor]

Death Knight, Havoc Demon Hunter, Druid, Mage, Brewmaster Monk, Holy Paladin, and Protection Paladin class armor sets are available for testing. Visit Setzertauren in Stormwind and Orgrimmar to pick up the sets.

neat

[clear parrot]

Where Dracthyr spec 😦

[mossy meteor]

Several new side questlines are now available: “A Swallow’s Tale” from Effervesta in Loamm, “Slime Time Live” from Elder Honeypelt in Loamm, “Mouse Detective” from Yarren in Hermit’s Hollow, and “This Might Sting” for Dracthyr in Zaralek Cavern.

ooh

[plain violet]

Not yet but there is a exclusive dracthyr quest.

[harsh mason]

In 10.1, there will be no new spec 100%

[plain violet]

Interesting, I will test it tomorrow maybe.

[mossy meteor]

there won't be a new spec

i legit hate wowhead's clickbait theories that have no merit

people will be like "omg third spec"

and there won't be a third spec

[silent urchin]

I mean "New specialisation remembered" seems pretty explicit

still not entirely sure if that's a real photo, though

[clear parrot]

Looks like moon theories. "Yes we have proofs. But that was photoshop".

[ember blaze]

we shall see

[jade basalt]

Wowhead has datamined the string

[uncut vault]

I think they probably encrypted the wrong thing in the process of doing the campaign testing lol

[uncut vault]

Oh did you find the start quest?

[ionic terrace]

Seat of the Aspects

[jade basalt]

Fyrakk is as powerful as Iridikron
But less focused

[plain violet]

They really want Wrathion to seem as an imbecile. xD

Well, a child let's say.

[mossy meteor]

he is a child

[plain violet]

Yeah but compared to BFA Wrathion...

[plain violet]

That's more like night and day!

[mossy meteor]

lmao

something like, nzoth?

[plain violet]

Yeah when he first enter he is shaking his head in pain...

[plain violet]

"Now kiss"

[ionic terrace]

sus

[plain violet]

Interesting..

[silent urchin]

Trashmaster is no longer the best title in game

aww you gotta do the intro quest before you see rewards

[iron yarrow]

Before the update to the 10.1 patch I was just getting errors when I tried to log onto it. Now that there was an update, it opens and I can hear the music (very loudly) but the game is invisible. It shows the icon in the system tray but it will not appear for me. Has anyone else had this problem?

[dense plover]

sounds like you either dont have a suitable gpu/cpu or you dont have the right directx version

[silent urchin]

There's been some weird stuff on ptr for certain graphics cards, probably not entirely resolved

you may be able to get it to run with the commandline option -d3d11 which you can set on the launcher via cog wheel next to play -> game settings -> additional command line arguments

in particular it seems to be directx 12 on nvidia cards that's not working, the option above will set it to directx 11

[uncut vault]

Anyone else having asset loadin issues this build?

Was 100% fine last build, but now things have an insanely small loadin distance, constant cracks in the world everywhere

[silent urchin]

view distance at 10 definitely feels shorter

or at least there's much more fog

I do get further than you, although not a whole lot more

don't think this is from exactly the same place, but pretty sure it was possible to see everything fairly clearly from anywhere before

maybe the cavern just had no fog in general?

there's a lot more effects going on than last build

oh they moved the glyph at the north somewhere that's now accessible

server did a weird not-disconnect but just not responding thing. Didn't notice any obvious world gaps but I guess you could get them if it's loading low quality geometry or something.

[dense plover]

there was no fog before

and theyre probably tweaking it to run better

my guess is it wasnt super stable before when lots of people were playing

dont think anyone shared this from the intro quest

also seems like ebyssian (ebonhorn) is getting a new model too

because its encrypted

not a new dragon model though

this area got a HUGE facelift

far more detailed and integrated than last build

first piece of new style gear - feels WAY too low ilvl tbh

the ice on the cave is confusing

its actually explained wow

not a mistake - cool

permanent little gravesite

cute toy

scenario has its own map

i think there is still old god influence

its why wrathion is in pain but sabellian isnt

wrathion knows the exposure

theres a solid chance we see sabellian BECOME corrupted this expac

[glass flicker]

To eliminate his authority, lol.

[crystal pond]

Lol i mean aberrus

There was screenshots of area for the last boss

Very void like

Also shadowflame and corrupted fyrakk hello

[crystal pond]

And then they will kill ebonhorn to finally drop wrathion new model

[glass flicker]

Yeah.

Give my boy full black and gold with a crown.

[ivory meadow]

about to log in soon; have they fixed Windrunners on MM yet?

[dense plover]

theres a snail named after stinky cheese

it has a fancy af flight map now

but you cant fly out now....

tech isnt in yet

[mossy meteor]

Actually later down the line sabellian hears whispers

But he says they're less vocal if he's in visage form

And it's the echo of neltharion whispering, not the old gods

[harsh mason]

And now enhanced by shadowflame, it is stronger than the Iridikron. And still reckless.

[timber shadow]

So the new tier sets are viewable on 10.1 ptr? Are the new traders post items also available? The Medivh stuff that is

[dense plover]

no

traders post stuff is unviewable until the month changes at the earliest

we dont even know if that medivh stuff is coming sooner rather than later

[timber shadow]

I'm dying to see the new Atiesh

[iron yarrow]

You are a genius! Thank you SO much! It's working now. 🙂

[plain violet]

I didn't find "That might sting" but we do have quests about reformed sundered flames dracthyrs in the caverns.

For example is about a prisonner being beaten by others dracthyrs (that we defend) and searching trough his items to see how dracthyrs try other things than pure military purposes, even them (reading a stolen journal about animals or affectionnate correspondance)

[harsh mason]

This is not surprising, dracthyrs were created for military purposes, and wyern Ebon Scale (whose commander was Sarkareth) is an analogue of the secret police

[plain violet]

Sarkareth us described as manipulative in the quests yeah, and having lied to his troops. Describing us dracthyrs and Emberthal ad committing atrocities.

[harsh mason]

That is, they were originally created to destroy any enemy

[plain violet]

However Ebon Scales isn't the secret police, you must think more of Dark Talons or Adamant Vigil.

Ebon Scales is pure destruction of ennemies, sole tactics.

Where Adamant is ears and eyes, the command.

[harsh mason]

Yes, I got it mixed up. But anyway this does not negate the fact that they were originally created for this

[plain violet]

And Dark Talons, fear tactics and behind the lines to terrorize.

For war, yeah. 😁

[harsh mason]

But it's still worth considering that Sarkareth should appear in 10.0.7 (most likely the plot will be dedicated to him)

I think that it is after 10.0.7 that he will become a full-fledged enemy for us

[plain violet]

From what we see, dracthyrs naturally incline into doing and wanting "mortal things" outside of war.

However some.things bothers me. For example Sarkareth is victim of whispers, like the black dragons of the zone, but nothing about Emberthal or us...

In the 10.1 content he totally is ennemy yes even if Emberthal try to reasonate with him. So I can imagine in 10.0.5 it's also "we can talk out this"

[harsh mason]

Sarkareth, by the way, hears the whisper of Neltharion's Echo (so he believes him)

This is important, I think

[plain violet]

And a bit of Void too (we already have cosmic void visual in chapter4)
He say it's Neltharion speaking to him, but Emberthal respond to it as being the dark whispers.

Considering Wrathion, Ebyssian and Sabellian also have the whispers...
I wonder if dracthyrs players will have something similar, like in Ohn'aran plains and the ruins where dracthyrs players get a debuff of the hypnotic song and whispers.

(Because dark relic that works on drakonids and dracthyrs)

[deep pawn]

Oh wait, that is a Dracthyr only special?

[plain violet]

The Ohn'aran ruins with the relic is different if you play dracthyr. If not dracthyr, nothing is wrong, you recover the relic etc.
If you play a dracthyr, you fall prey to the relic too, so the nightborne inflict you a mana addiction to counter it. 😁

[harsh mason]

Hmm, there is a Sarkareth model on wowhead, which is named as Sarkareth Defeated. But there is no model itself. Can he survive the raid?

Or it's his corpse. But they usually don't sign bodies in a unique way

Although in this form, I don't think he will survive anything

[silent urchin]

I don't think he'd survive from a plot perspective

[harsh mason]

By the way, we already know that Fyrakk was as powerful as Iridikron, but that was before he enhanced himself with shadowflame. That is, in 10.1 it will become more powerful than iIridikron. Plus, he is much more aggressive and does not control himself + shadowflame drives him crazy. I think that it is he, and not Iridikron, who will become the main threat to us

[plain violet]

Maybe...

I wonder what will happen of Idikron. But their unity is already shattered. 😁

[austere gazelle]

I don't think so. Iridikron is a calculator, he'll most likely convince somehow Fyrakk to go on a suicide mission. He may even be behind Fyrakk bathing into the shadowflame by luring him toward this place knowing he wouldn't resist

Jailer IQ well used

[harsh mason]

The fact that it was Iridikron who ordered him is known. That's not what I'm talking about. About Fyrakk, that he is as powerful as Iridikron, and that only discipline allows him to direct his power to the right goals (that is, Iridikron controls him, otherwise he would also fly and burn everything in a row).

[crystal pond]

I mean
We gonna stop Fyrakk even when he will be powered with shadowflame so

I have no idea how

[harsh mason]

Here's a screenshot already thrown off above

That is, Iridikron clearly did not do this in order to weaken his crazy and aggressive brother

[crystal pond]

I have a feeling that the whole thing with Fyrakk is just a distraction

We gonna kill him
And then "oh no, the incarnates got something important"

[dense plover]

except there is no evidence we kill fyrakk in 10.1

the intention here may be straight forward - theyre trying to make themselves stronger so they dont lose like raszageth did

[echo sandal]

Unless we do kill or injure him somehow, Iridikron decides to devour him, burps up a bit of shadowflame and grows twice the size

Galakrond 2.0

Then tries to do the same with Vyranoth but she turns againts him after seeing what he done

[crystal pond]

So you think that he will fly whole time around the isle and burn everything around him?

100% we gonna kill or injure him

[dense plover]

i think its a distraction while the others are also increasing their power

if we kill fyrakk its not this patch

they wouldnt give him a new raid-quality model if he was just gonna die - they wouldve just used particles and spell effects

especially since we barely saw his old model

[crystal pond]

The problem with Fyrakk right now is that he is empowered with shadowflame
So he not only burning everythong around him, he also infect his surroundings with shadow/void thing

[dense plover]

i dont think that last part is true

shadowflame is not infectious

[crystal pond]

I mean sabellian lol

[dense plover]

wut

[crystal pond]

Fyrakk breathed at him and sabellian got infected by shadowflame

[echo sandal]

I wonder if its Iridikron who tells Fyrakk to start to fly around after bathing in shadowflame or if he does it on his own out of anger and being a maniac. If its the latter, I dont think Iridikron would be a fan of it. If its Iridikron who tells him, its most likely a misdirection

And uses Fyrakk's aggressive behavior so he can gain power in a different way

[dense plover]

kinda?

but he is also a black dragon

so - saying it happens to everything is a bit of a stretch

[crystal pond]

Maybe not on everything
But its a fact that shadowflame can turn living beings crazy

[silent urchin]

Speculation has been that the 10.1.5 megadungeon may be all about fyrakk

but remains to be seen, there's going to be a lot of stuff related to him in the patch that isn't yet on PTR

[echo sandal]

I wonder if the tower in Azure Span will still play a part or not, for whatever reason Raszageth tried to capture it. Looks like a place Vyranoth would have as a "base of operations" or as a home to have a hot tea while looking at the snow outside

[crystal pond]

Oh yeah i forgot about patches

[austere gazelle]

I theorized that the shadowflame might be An'she's heart struck by the Darkness, An'she left it behind and that's why Elune supposedly can't heal him and have to stay with him to keep him alive. Someone discovered An'she's heart somewhere inside Azeroth and used it to spread the shadowflame ( but that's just a Theory )

[crystal pond]

The tower will play a role but atm its not on ptr yet

Blue dragonflight will have questline in 10.1 so probably it will be the tower

[dense plover]

lol - fucking QnA about a system and im still confused as fuck

way too many pieces

5 tiers of gear, shit tons of different, similarly named currencies and fragments of currencies

arbitrary caps

and base quest ilvl is fucking garbage

it isnt even the same as the 10.0.7 minimum from world gear

[plain violet]

I do like that our ennemies empower themselves.

I mean, that was the same with the Jailer but not that explicited as "not underestimating adventurers, better gear up ourselves"

Yeah I don't understand much of the QA too. x)

[silent urchin]

I mean write out everything about the current system and it seems confusing too. It's largely the same in terms of what gives what ilvls as the current, except a bit more explicit.

[upper pasture]

the only thing i'm confused about is say i get an item that's explorer 1/8 when i upgrade it to explorer 8/8 is that the end of it's upgrade capabilities or can i get it bumped into veteran or adventurer?

[silent urchin]

ends at 8/8

[upper pasture]

but for the most part it seems to be the current valor system with more words and upgrade items

and no M+ score capped you out

damn, i see. this kinda sucks cause it puts an end to the farming low keys and upgrading the item to max valor cap

but the upgrading raid gear is pretty nice ngl

[ember blaze]

i dont understand what this is saying lol

so 9- 11 drop the same currency

what's keeping you from just doing the 9 to go above 4/8?

im confused

if the same gear and currency drop

i thought the currency is what allows you to upgrade

[upper pasture]

the itmlvl of the gear is prolly higher

[ember blaze]

yeah so why not just do the 9 anyways

[upper pasture]

like how a 9 now is lower itmlevel than the 11 would be

save your upgrade currency?

say a 9 drops champion 4/8 but an 11 drops champion 5/8

[ember blaze]

but isnt that saying that theres a wall at 4/8

[upper pasture]

you'd save a Wrym's shadowflame crest and however many stones the upgrade was

it's also saying you'd want to run 11s instead of 9s because youll get the upgrade crest which allows for higher gear creation

[silent urchin]

I think that's meant to say "above" rather than "below"

you get champion gear from 9, but crests at 11

so if you want to upgrade you need to run 11+, but can upgrade gear that's 9+

[upper pasture]

the only thing i don't like about this new system is the weird caps on when a item will cap out

but it seems everything else looks fine on paper, maybe hard to comprehend but it's like 5 new items and 4 or 5 upgrade tracks for gear and a protection on stuff so people can't farm low content and upgrade it to low mythic raid itmlvls

[ember blaze]

so since theres a cap, does that mean if you ran a +2 get your items. Then running something higher is gonna mean less of that new bracket

because you already got currency from a +2? 🤔

[harsh mason]

In order for Iridikron to be able to devour him, he first needs to defeat him. Like I said,Fyrakk will be stronger (and through the dialogue between Sabellian and Ebyssian, we are told that Fyrakk will become sooooo dangerous)

[upper pasture]

no cause you'd still want said item from something above the track your current item in that slot is

[harsh mason]

It even became something that really scared Sabellian

[ember blaze]

no i mean the currency

[upper pasture]

the currency from the two will only upgrade things so high so you'd want to run higher content to get higher crests

[ember blaze]

right, but my question is

if i got currency from a lower tier, then do a higher tier content

that's less of a higher tier content currency cause i timed a +2

right?

[rain cave]

"damn this fyrakk guy is pretty strong how can we defeat him"

khadgar: opens portal to bottom of ocean

[upper pasture]

what

[ember blaze]

doesnt each bracket drop a different item

[rain cave]

I reckon they might make each patch about the influence of a incarnate, but then have us kind of face off against them in the end

[upper pasture]

crests yes stones no

[ember blaze]

but that currency is capped

[echo sandal]

I mean, does he have to defeat him or cant someone (like us for example) eventually defeat Fyrakk and then Iridikron will basically thank us for the food? I wonder if he ate Raszageth but I guess the other incarnates would have commented on that if that happened...unless they left Vault of the Incarnates before Iridikron and he was there for an extra minute to eat her.

His hunger was already mentioned and he also used some sort of lightning. It was yellow sure, but it was still lightning.

[upper pasture]

each crest has it's own cap

[ember blaze]

oh ok

[rain cave]

fyrakk is just waiting to rez ragnaros so we can have ragnaros the dragonrider

[upper pasture]

so you wont want to avoid lower keys to "not cap your higher crests"

[rain cave]

with his lil rag legs hanging off the side

dragnaros, even

[upper pasture]

because each crest is a different cap

[echo sandal]

Ragnaros with a wig and makeup?

[rain cave]

🫦

but yeah if we assume each incarnate is related to a patch in some form

and that emerald dream is next with ice

I'd reckon iridikron is literally going after both titan and void powers

since shadowflame is voidy, but the emerald dream is orderly

if the reason the ice incarnate looks like the winter queen is actually intentional, could mean she seeks the world tree seed

or perhaps they seek to destroy the dream in general, as it might cause something else to happen

if it's azeroth's dream imposed on her by the titans, they seek to wake her up more

at-least that's how it could be viewed by the actual primalists, whereas iridikron might be doing it for some other purpose

he says they want what powers the lab in 10.1, so perhaps he wishes to use some kind of engine

he needs a power source -> implies there is something to be powered

tyrhold has the light crystal thing powering it, doing something

we know that was related at least in part to infuse order as well as keeping the isles clouded for a while

lot of potential theory directions we're at

is there anything somebody can think of that iridikron might want to power, something that probably isn't so on the nose evil that the other primalists would instantly question him on, and he can still talk about, but could also be plot twisted into something more sinister

something that might require input from the emerald dream for

[deep pawn]

regarding upgrades, nothing should drop at 5/8

it'll be 1/8 at the next tier

[upper pasture]

no?

depending on where you get said items it will be on it's respective track depending on where in the track will be it's level on that track

sorta like how M+ gear is now

[deep pawn]

yes, but since 5/8 is the same as 1/8 in the next track it'll always be the better track.

[upper pasture]

no it wont

[deep pawn]

did you not read the table?

https://www.wowhead.com/news/how-the-new-gear-upgrade-system-in-embers-of-neltharion-works-331748

nothing will drop at 5/8

[upper pasture]

ah yes we will always have atleast 4 upgrades

mb

[deep pawn]

You'll want +17s to drop gear that can be upgraded to hero 5, and 16s or higher for aspect crests in general

You can also downgrade crests so no need to run lower keys unless you want to to upgrade normal raid loot

That said 10 crests of each type a week is a lot of upgrades. Unless they mean 10 fragments

[upper pasture]

no they mean't 10 crests

they used fragments in the example of hitting the cap

[deep pawn]

To cap week one you'd need to do 30 timed keys? It's 15 fragments per crest right?

[upper pasture]

yeah 15 fragments per crest but you can also get full crests in other content

[deep pawn]

What content drops full aspect crests. Keys and mythic bosses are just fragments

[upper pasture]

oh maybe it's just fragments but still it's not 30 timed keys

[deep pawn]

10 crests is 150 fragments at 5 fragments per key

[upper pasture]

yes but if you are raiding you are also getting 10 per raid boss

[silent urchin]

15 for "later bosses", presumably last 2 or 3

[deep pawn]

Many many many more people will do 16s week one than mythic bosses

How many crests do you need to upgrade crafted gear?

[upper pasture]

no upgrading crafted gear

it's one crest per upgrade when it's needed

and it's not needed under adventurer 5/8

[deep pawn]

crests are how you upgrade crafted gear in season 2

[upper pasture]

no

[deep pawn]

it's made into an item by enchanters

YES

You turn crests into the item to "infuse with power"

[upper pasture]

ah not this new upgrade system you're talking about the new primal power stuff

[deep pawn]

no

[upper pasture]

...

[deep pawn]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/item=204697/enchanted-aspects-shadowflame-crest

[upper pasture]

yes

[deep pawn]

okay, so it's 4 crests to upgrade a crafted item

[upper pasture]

that's the new primal power items

[deep pawn]

You are using crests to upgrade crafted items, what's the confusion there

[upper pasture]

its not the new upgrade path system

its a differnet system

[deep pawn]

it may as well be

it uses the exact same resource

[upper pasture]

okay sure

[deep pawn]

so to upgrade my weapon week one I'm gonna need to time 12 keys, that's actually a bit worse than current system that's 10 keys

[upper pasture]

you'd also not normally be able to upgrade your weapon week one with valor anyhow right? valor cap usually stops you until week 2

[deep pawn]

Oh, I misread the numbers, or they updated. 5 is completed, 12 is timed.

where did I get 2 for completed and 5 for timed

okay, never mind, that makes 5 timed keys

or 13 timed keys to cap each week

[deep pawn]

well you could make a 418 weapon week one this season if you did 10 16s

So 5 keys day one to make a 447 weapon will be the first thing I do

[silent urchin]

Makes sense, it's about 4x as many ilvls

[deep pawn]

So depending on drop rates on sparks in the new season crafted gear will be very fast for alts

literally twice as fast as season 1.

[upper pasture]

i mean, with the whole higher itmlvl on any character making upgrades cost half as much alt catch up is going to be amazing

[deep pawn]

well crafted gear doesn't require flightstones at all, just sparks and 4 crests.

alts need crests to upgrade stuff

min heroic gear should need 5 crests to max

[upper pasture]

making vault choices on alts an extra layer of thought keeping your main in mind to make their upgrades cheaper if possible

but it's likely anyhow we will be swimming in flightstones with or without that 50% reduction

[deep pawn]

flightstones are never a limiter for upgrades, it's crests

[upper pasture]

i mean if you don't have them you can't upgrade

[deep pawn]

actually, 447 for aspect's crest is too high, that's 29 ilvls over 418

that likely gets nerfed down to 444

[deep pawn]

The blue posts make it sound like flightstones drop from everythign

[upper pasture]

they do but items seemingly require alot of them

like 100-120

and that seems to be the lower end

[silent urchin]

you get a lot

[upper pasture]

yes, but there is a chance you could have zero in the beginning

[deep pawn]

odds are my first 8 crests will go to upgrading weapon and lariat

[harsh mason]

Apparently, the Echo of Neltharion will be something like our guide on the raid, until we get into the rift leading into space and there he, like the original Neltharion, will go crazy

[upper pasture]

oh good lord nice zapthrottle changes

'

[crystal pond]

Is raid testing happening already? 👀

[harsh mason]

Yes( first and second bosses)

[echo sandal]

Im not suprised he gets crazy there, I would get lost in that place aswell, thats beautiful.

[ember blaze]

we're going to space?

[upper pasture]

void

[harsh mason]

It's about like in Karazhan: in the lower part of the laboratory there is a rift into space

[crystal pond]

We going to the internet guys

The real void

So like
Neltharion and Sarkareth fight will be in space?

Why Neltharion also unfriendly to us?

[little hound]

I think its because the deeper we delve, the Echo Is more and more affected by the void. Thus becoming the Corrupted Neltharion we know as Deathwing.

[crystal pond]

I mean
He is unfriendly at start

[dense plover]

he was never nice to begin with

he was always an isolated dragon

its part of what made him easier to corrupt

no friends to notice and help stem the corruption

no friends to even notice anything different

[crystal pond]

Maybe it will be fixed lately, but its weird that he is not neutral, but unfriendly
But he helping his kids to yeet the invaders

[little hound]

A bait mayhaps.

Most of the Aberrus Storyline within the raid and cinematics are encrypted HEAVILY.

So we won't know until release and first raid clear.

[crystal pond]

Yep

[little hound]

New topic!
Emerald Dream 10.2 speculations?

I surely hope so.
Tyrande's World Tree Seed ???
Merithra's new duty as the new Aspect ???
What will Ysera be doing ???

[crystal pond]

Ysera will be sl baine 2.0

Just stand in gardens for all time 💀

They didnt even drop a meeting between ysera and alextrasza
Like man wtf

I hope seed will be not corrupted

Please no

[little hound]

Doubt it.

Its already been invaded and repelled / defended once.

And tbh, I won't be mad If Ysera If Baine 2.0.
She's literally serving as an Advisor to Merithra and to guide her as an Aspect. Her job Isn't to be a major figure.

[deep pawn]

I'm still thinking volcano to the west of the plains

Could lead to an elements twisted dream

Woo, fire and earth instead of nightmares

A shadowflame volcano would also be distinct from waking shores

[little hound]

I think IF anything, Vyranoth might use the plains as an icy themed place. By the sounds of It, Fyrakk will be a Quest-related boss If anything, or future raid. Man Inhales shadowflame power and leaves so.. Shrug

[deep pawn]

Yes, him and Iridikron want the magma for something

I hope it's not just a recolor for Fyrakk

Only reason I could think of wanting magma is to bring it to the surface

[rain cave]

i mean, he wants that specific magma

[upper pasture]

i mean, from what i understand he doesn't just leave. he thinks he kills us/wounds us beyond something that we can survive and leaves us for dead.

[deep pawn]

Yeah, he needs it for something. If he needed regular magma there's plenty around the Obsidian Throne

[rain cave]

doesn't tyrhold have magma?

or am I misremembering

[upper pasture]

up by the vault there's a whole bunch of magma

[rain cave]

I know we use some to help forge tyr

[deep pawn]

Some of that magma is at his forge

[rain cave]

perhaps they intend to corrupt tyrhold?

with shadowmagma

instead of firing whatever light beam down into.. whatever is down there

[deep pawn]

Tyrhold and the halls of infusion are why dragons exist

[rain cave]

iridikron says they need the magma to power tyrhold for their own purposes or somesuch

turns out he's duping them to free what I assume is under there

or to corrupt the waters

for somebody

could be that the bargain he struck was to help corrupt the dragons water for that elusive 5th old god

[deep pawn]

They have so many loose ends. We have the Tyr reforge to come. The seed and the empty space to the west. We have the ice tower and we have the bronze gate

[rain cave]

best guess is that entire weird water circle will be frozen over

[upper pasture]

it's almost like they are setting up many storylines for the future

[rain cave]

create the outdoor zone right there

that entire chunk just because a big frozen mess

[deep pawn]

I can't see us getting an emerald dream raid and a bronze raid.

I still think Vyranoth is gonna be the mega dungeon boss in the ice tower

I guess freezing the ocean and then she flies to the tower and we deal with the dream only in small ways like the primalist future could work

We could even partially defeat Vyranoth in the tower so she lives to be in the final raid

A fire and ice fight would be a cool thematic penultimate boss

[rain cave]

I mean, if we wanted to do some interesting parallels

fire is hard to control, fluid

the incarnate echoes that

he's also been infused with the 'wilder' power

shadow is all about not being confined to one thing

being fluid

untamable

etc

we've already seen light crystals, on draenor and such

the light is more orderly

locked in

frozen in time, even

if blizz wanted to they could go for an interesting shadowflame, light ice duality

light ice could be a VERY interesting aesthetic

[deep pawn]

I meannnnnn

FF14 had that exact thematic twice in two expansions recently

In FF14 lore light is a static magic along with ice.

Void and fire are active

[rain cave]

courtesy of Dalle

could be cool, but not sure if that's what they will do

[upper pasture]

seems kinda out of left field type stuff honestly

[deep pawn]

Not gonna post images cause it's a massive FF14 spoiler but it would garner massive "they wrote this after shadowbringer"

[rain cave]

not necessarily out of left field, just following the thematic parallel

this is spoiler channel tbf

and you can just spoiler the image

[deep pawn]

It's a spoiler channel for WoW

||https://images.app.goo.gl/xfpXsgZrQ6pHAj3Z8||

Links to a zone image. Fairly minor but shows how ff14 combines ice and light

The boss I'm referring to is a two phase fight.

Now WoW does it's best a lot when it's outright copying, but that specific combo could be too on the nose even for WoW haha.

Biggest difference would be that in WoW light and void are explicitly higher than fire and ice where in 14 they're equal

[dense plover]

holy shit - i just saw that fyrakk is just lying here

wtf

[deep pawn]

Probably hibernating soaking up all the juice.

[upper pasture]

the cutscene says he emerges from the lava it's probs their way of being like "oh yeah don't forget we need this dude to pop out of here"

[dense plover]

yeah

but also

you need to be able to see him

otherwise the part with the spear makes no sense

[silent urchin]

I suspect there's animations missing but the placement seems to make sense

[dense plover]

^

more this

[rain cave]

let him cook

[uncut vault]

I think he's supposed to be laying there like that, since Sabellian's shot goes towards exactly where his neck is in that sleep anim

[rain cave]

I mean fyrakk is very powerful already

And he's powering up from that point

There's probably going to be some more reason but

I guess it makes sense for us not to be able to harm him individually?

It's just funny powerscaling compared to other things

Jailer who is powered up and a titan+ level threat? Smack his knees

Then he ded

Then fyrakks just a spicy dragon but he can just choose to smite us should we get too near

Ik we were technically powered up for jailer

But maybe that's what we're going to need for fyrakk? Get tyr to give us some light infused fire retardant armour polish

[charred sun]

Meh, to this day the jailer the the best example for any game dev/narrative 'designer/creator' (try saying that aloud without cringing LMAO), as to how NOT to build a villain let alone a anti-villain. By attempting to copy-paste the literal 10+ years of contextual story, side stories, character arcs- shown across all Marvel cinematic movies.themes, etc. into what would effectively be Thanos, in the MCU-world. ALL within essentially 2-3 months time, will perhaps little if any oversight (obvious when seeing conflicting information that ends up retroconing ALL past lore). IF the Men In Black device memory-wipe device existed, I'm sure everybody and their mothers - especially Danuser's, would activate it to overwrite and erase the titanic failure that was SL KEKW

[charred sun]

Not even. Whoever thought of the previous 'villain' as a challenge was likely impotent and more than just physically tbf... Fyrakk seems like an enemy that demands a sort of objective 'armorment/weaponry' that outweighs that of all previous xpacs like that special cloak for visions of N'zoth and whatever else crumbs of Sadge writing. But, it is atleast exciting, because it means they're not asleep (not fully) whilst writing the lore and the meanings/depth behind it. Fyrakk is little more than a foot soldier in the face of something like Iridikron. and THAT'S exciting most of all!

I'm half intoxicated though whilst writing so, slap on the wrist, and more than a grain of salt to forgive my harshness

[harsh mason]

He wasn't as powerful as the Titans (the Eternals are equal in status to the Titans, but not in strength). Zovaal was not very strong by cosmic standards, but having learned to control the magic of domination, he could subdue the Titans, but this was his only advantage over them

Fyrakk is very powerful, but by Azeroth standards. Perhaps he can now be compared to Lei Shen in the prime of his powers

[crystal pond]

Prepare the nuke

[harsh mason]

Yes, the fight with them will be in space. Judging by the description, the Echo of Neltharion will also start to go crazy (meaning that it simply repeats the path of the original). But judging by the raid test, most of the Echo raid will be something like our guide

As for the color of his status, I don't think there is any deep lore here. Rather, Echo is simply not interested in at least some relation to us. Or it's just because of PTR

[marble shard]

Could I ask CASC Lib questions here? In CascView (1.9MB), it can find all Diablo 3 listfile, how does this work? Download list file instantly or get listfile information from TACT/Ribbit?

[austere gazelle]

I don't think it's the right channel for this @marble shard

You're in the WoW Ptr spoiler:p

[marble shard]

Is there such a data mining channel?

[harsh mason]

This is more of a channel for spoilers

[rain cave]

is it still a going theory that the 5th old god might be plant related?

or atleast more in tune with nature, artistically

[austere gazelle]

if there is a fifth, and if it's the one depicted in chronicles, it's skull / roots / plant related indeed. It might even be related to decay

[rain cave]

good shout on the decay

wonder then, if the dream could be intended for that old god

what if the dream is actually the prison for that old god

the old god closest to life

eonar (lifebinder) binded it, imprisoned it

kept it asleep, with a dream of perfect uncorrupted nature

the dream is a bit like a green nyalotha in terms of how it works

would also make sense as to why the other old gods might want to corrupt it too

[deep pawn]

There's no way get emerald dream and infinite if the last raid is void and Iridikron. I'm really interested in what's happening

Unless 10.2 is a split raid of like 5-6 bosses each

[upper pasture]

maybe we will get a one off raid or a 2 boss raid like the old days

[deep pawn]

The least believable thing for me would be this becoming a three year expansion and we get a 10.4

[rain cave]

I mean it could just be that they go for the expansion ending with iridikron setting off the next expansion

keep in mind fyrakk isn't in the raid

the idea he might be done in the megadungeon is interesting, since it might mean that megadungeon is going to be a bigger story beat

alternatively megadungeon could be where the infinite stuff is done

this armour is cool

[upper pasture]

imagine if we don't actually deal with all the incarnates before the end of DF and Iridikron carries into the next expansion as the big bad

[rain cave]

would be a tough thing to sell the community I think

thought they could definetly do a sylvanas thing

(take that how you will)

where we defeat the primalists in 10.2, and he just yeets off

and the infinite show up for 10.3

but if we follow the meta narrative to me it reads as they want to power up each incarnate somehow

before we face them

since we had pure elements for 10.0, even if it was storm focused we did have a lot of other elements in there

they want to keep things different in each patch, shadowflame and voidy stuff is cropping up in 10.1 whilst also still being part of the primalist story

instead of just having a different element for each raid they're going with more variation

perhaps a section of the dream will bleed into reality at that empty water section next to ohnaran plains

and that's where a new patch will be

personally I'd be really interested to see them fit a vertical zone into there, with tree trunks, frozen caverns from vyrynoth

but they could really do anything from 10.1 imo

a 10.2 infinite pivot patch before going back to the primalist story could be a thing

iridikron could make a deal with them, and ice lady could be the one charged with overlooking that

would make sense since the primalist future is icy

[cosmic beacon]

petition for blizz to stop using male humans

[rain cave]

it's wowhead

not blizz doing it

[cosmic beacon]

blizz can stop using them too

[rain cave]

I can understand using human male for most things as a standardized model

however

[upper pasture]

it literally makes sense to use human male modal\

[rain cave]

showcasing shaman, druid and DH armor

is kind of silly

on human

[cosmic beacon]

True

[rain cave]

I'd say they should only show armour on models it's kind of more intended for

[upper pasture]

no extra fancy things\ to get in the way of whats being showcased

[rain cave]

like shaman would look fine on orc

no hunch orc ofc

not extra fancy things like human

but it's on a more relevant model

[upper pasture]

but it's not the model they are showing off its the new set

[rain cave]

and the sets are designed with the races in mind

human male really doesn't help some sets look good

[upper pasture]

unless its heritage you are assuming that

[rain cave]

it's not representative of the set in actuality

if they show shaman tier on a human

until humans get shamans

or even better, horde exclusive sets or tints

why are they shown on human male

[upper pasture]

because its not about the model it's about the set

[rain cave]

and the sets are defined by the model

in large part

things look different on different races, and if you want to say, show off shaman or druid tier in an unbiased intended way

you would do so on one of the races that can actually be a shaman or druid..

[upper pasture]

if you want to show off the new sets in a unbiased way you'd choose the most standard model that doesn't have any extra horns or hunches or skin tones. something that wont take you eyes away from what is being shown.

[rain cave]

and you'd argue human male is that?

[upper pasture]

idk, something like a bald white man

[rain cave]

with their massive arms weird shoulder sizes

[cosmic beacon]

I intended it to be a meme cause I think male humans make anything look bad
But in all seriousness I agree with saint on the use of race should match the class

[rain cave]

cursed animations

and if you want something standard without hunches or horns

use orc

they're literally just horde humans

[cosmic beacon]

Or just use human male and male orc cause then u atleast show off both factions

[rain cave]

and they can show off shaman sets more naturally

I understand why wowhead wants a standardized model

lower effort to just put the set on the model you already have loaded

and click the screenshot macro

but sometimes I think it's not worth the extra 30 seconds you save lmao

because wowhead aren't really in the business of cutting edge competetive speed of articles

there's no other WoW datamining and news groups that really compete with them. So it's not like they're trying to get the news out faster to beat somebody else

[cosmic beacon]

Half the time there isn’t even grammar checks so getting them to change race is a

[rain cave]

grammar check fine english isn't all of their first languages

people make mistakes

[upper pasture]

i mean if it bothers you so much become a volunteer

[silent blaze]

Also this PTR spoilers. How is talking male models that?

[rain cave]

this channel gets derailed quite often tbf

but we are talking about upcoming content on wowhead

[upper pasture]

it was a ptr model tbf also

[rain cave]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-dracthyr-themed-armor-set-in-patch-10-1-331825

e.g. here

they do use female human mode, fine that's what dracthyr have

but why human male below?

if they go through the effort of trying to get a better skeleton for the set, why use the wrong one as well xD

[upper pasture]

no that's female dracthyr model

[rain cave]

yeah but scroll down why is human male there

[upper pasture]

it's likely it only shows up on dracthyr

[rain cave]

and not drathyr male

https://www.wowhead.com/news/all-season-2-druid-tier-set-tints-datamined-in-patch-10-1-331814

also not consistent with this one having only human male

despite being druid

[upper pasture]

oh strange

[rain cave]

tho tbf there is nelf if you scroll down actually

but you'd think that would be first

[harsh mason]

I don't think. If one of the Incarnations survives, it is unlikely to remain a threat. I understand that people no longer consider Murozond as the final boss?

[upper pasture]

i mean just because they survive the expansion doesn't mean we won't deal with them in the future. it also deals with the fact that a lot of players don't like random bosses coming out of nowhere and being all "i'm the most evil and powerful person/thing to date but last year you didn't know of me" if Iridikron isn't killed at the end of DF and just defeated and runs away he could find new power or allies to return and try again were we defeat him again and killing him this time.

[harsh mason]

In Pandaria, all bosses (except Garrosh)-it's random bosses coming out of nowhere and being all "I'm the most evil and powerful person/thing to date but last year you didn't know of me", but it didn't cause any problems at the time.

Still the best expansion in the opinion of many

For other expansion there is Azshara, there is Denathrius.

[rain cave]

we did know about them though in some form

as in we knew pandaria was out there somewhere

we knew there was another old god somewhere

we knew the zandalari trolls were going to be a thing

we just didn't know when/where

Pandaren were in WC3, Cata had the troll council thing, Cata also had old god teasing in general

the only out of left field thing I suppose was the mogu/titan stuff

but you could argue that everything on azeroth would be related to that somehow lmao

[rain cave]

also azshara was around forever she didn't just randomly pop up in BfA

[harsh mason]

Well, I can also say that we knew protodragons, so Incarnations are not new to us. The same can be said about anything. But in fact: the Mogu were unknown to us, the Mantises were unknown to us, the Sha were unknown to us.

[harsh mason]

I didn't say that she appeared randomly. I just cite her as an example, as a WELL-known threat to us for the next expansions. But as for the Incarnations-I'm sure they are only for this expansion

[subtle oar]

It's how wowhead always shows sets. Human is just default mannequin

[upper pasture]

but you don't know that. letting threats not be resolved in one neat little expansion is a way to create more stuff later down the line. i'm not saying "ITS GONNA HAPPEN" just saying it could happen and we could have returning threats that aren't Rag 4.0 or what's his face again the lich

they are obviously moving a bunch of story lines to create more conflicts in the future whats to say we don't deal with an incarnate and have to chase them down at a later time

[uncut lintel]

wow tis is first thing i read when i come into this channel no context

[rain cave]

No as in they went out of their way to show dracthyr female in that specific armor post

but not dracthyr male

they put human male in there for some reason

and just because something is how it's always been done, doesn't mean it's not up for criticism or change

and if the logic is human male has to be on every post, why is it second? why does the druid set have nelf male but further down? Why not nelf female if the goal is to show a different body type? or why not have nelf first since it's a set more fitting for them?

[cosmic beacon]

[upper pasture]

maybe there is no logic outside the person who normally does it selects human and when there's a lot of posts that are needing screenshots they get others to help and they aren't so selective on picking human male everytime for SS

[rain cave]

Perhaps

I know it is a communal effort and different people are uploading the articles

[deep pawn]

the reason they show male humans is cause that's what the artists paint the textures on

it's to show the armor with the least amount of stretching

[upper pasture]

i've tried to tell them that

[deep pawn]

human male is just "default"

is that a problem for some armors? Absolutely

[rain cave]

Not for all armour

That's what I'm trying to say

They didn't design say, shaman and evoker armor with the human male skeleton as their defacto base

If they are then that's just weird

I know that most things are put on human model because they're a very inoffensive middle ground for all the classes

I'm not disagreeing that most things makes sense to have human male default

[upper pasture]

Why is it weird for them as an art team to design on one particular model and then tweak it for others then have a whole design team working on art on models on 20+ different types of body structures

[rain cave]

It's weird to design your set for a model It's not designed for

Why make an evoker set on a human male model then yet fit it to the evokers, instead of just concepting straight onto the evokers

[upper pasture]

I promise you it’s not

[rain cave]

I feel you're misunderstanding the point

I'm making

I'm not disagreeing with a general model

Human male covers most things as a middle ground

That I agree with

But if something isn't going to be worn by human males typically, why design it for that first

Or at all

[upper pasture]

Because that’s the base model that the art team works with

[rain cave]

No

As in

They could just not

[upper pasture]

…

[rain cave]

Have that as the base model

[upper pasture]

But it’s what they know it’s what they’ve been doing for nearly two decades

Why change something that clearly has been working

[rain cave]

Guess heritage armour has to look good on human male before tauren

Lol

[upper pasture]

Because some people on the internet doesn’t like that a preview is on the male human model?

[rain cave]

Also you're misunderstanding again in general

Because you're talking about dev stuff

I'm talking about wowhead

[upper pasture]

You’re not understanding the concept of how art is created

[rain cave]

I work with gamedev artists daily

And know the workflow myself a bit

[upper pasture]

You’re literally saying “why do they start with a oval when drawing a face couldn’t they pick something more face like”

[rain cave]

You always design something with its context in mind

[upper pasture]

Sas already answered why they use human over anything else the last time this was brought up yesterday

[rain cave]

I'm moreso saying why limit yourself to an oval to start from if you know its not going to be oval shaped

Context

Tauren are not human shaped, creating their set on humans first is just creating more work for probably a worse product

[upper pasture]

But we don’t have sets that are limited to races outside of heritage sets

[rain cave]

Its to prove a point

[upper pasture]

So tier and general armor isn’t going to be designed the same way

[rain cave]

E.g. a set for druids should be designed with the druid races in mind first

With other races as a second

As it is a set for them

[upper pasture]

Okay sure

[rain cave]

This isn't even that important, though, since blizzard said they want to make all race class combos

So eventually human probably can stand in for everything

Though I'd still like them to design things more explicitly to fit other races

Since the human models are limiting in aspects

[upper pasture]

Guess my Druid can’t use the DH tier set as a mog

It’s as simple as they use the human model to create a base model and tweak it for other races as needed

[rain cave]

They can, but would you rather it look good on your druid or your dh

That's my point

[upper pasture]

Why are waste time teaching all your art people how to create models for all the racea or have a department that makes the gear and another that goes over a tweaks it as needed for each race

[rain cave]

Don't even know what you're trying to say there

Sorry

[upper pasture]

Teach 100 people how to make models on 24ish races or have 90 people making models and 10 people tweaking them for the races after the art team made the armor?

[rain cave]

I don't see how this is relevant to my point

This is about pipeline not allocation

[upper pasture]

Because you are saying you want them to make the gear on a race that it’s relevant to first you’ll have to teach the artist how to design on each model

Which means each artist will need to know how to do the thing on each race not just human

[rain cave]

Not every artist is hands on with the race models

Concept artist, can just draw over the skeleton of the race

Some 3d stuff can be done separately, but is also based on the concept art

So they just follow that

[upper pasture]

Okay well take care I guess

[rain cave]

There would still be the same number of people making and tweaking

[upper pasture]

Because you clearly won’t get my point and I won’t get yours so

[rain cave]

I mean idk what you're arguing for

I've even said it's not too important

Would just like to see more sets on their intended races from wowhead

A lily feedback is all

[deep pawn]

They do. Druids were on night elves and tauren for example. Doesn't stop the fact that they were modeled on humans first and then stretched for other races

They had to go back and deliberately change how the belt on the Nightborne heritage sat for example cause it clipped in them but not humans

It took a patch to fix haha

[uncut vault]

theyve gotten better in recent times but they pretty much always do sadly

even the initial four heritage armors weren't designed on their races

they were designed on humans and stretched to compensate

hence why the nightborne assets have been wonky since release

[deep pawn]

On PTR, is crafted 418 gear bumped up to 421?

[rain cave]

it would be less heinous I think if humans were actually more neutral

but despite them being seen as a 'neutral' race in terms of proportion they're really not

they have a lot of wonky issues that don't help when resizing things from them to others

e.g. scaling something to fit their squared off large chests, shoulders and arms means it gets squished down onto things like belfs

or how nelfs males have a really wide upper chest and an alien thin waist, so armour gets stretched then squished on the same model

belf males also despite being smaller stretch their shoulders out in a weird way with their idle pose

[deep pawn]

Well that's been 19 years

[harsh mason]

Another proof that Fyrakk is the most powerful incarnationhttps://www.wowhead.com/news/dont-be-rude-to-fyrakk-331921

[rain cave]

I mean, iridikron wouldn't even wait

if iridikron were in the same scenario he'd just blow you up with a thought instead of caring about his pride lmao

[crystal pond]

I don't even know which is stronger: molten fire or gravity

[upper pasture]

i'd reckon gravity would be stronger

but both can destroy so it's sorta a moot point and depending on the strength of each force they can be minor damage or major

[crystal pond]

I read that the gravity of black holes is capable of splitting particles
So yeah iridikrond is stronger

[upper pasture]

yes but does Iridikrond have that sort of power? we know he can control the gravity of things but like....the strength of a black hole?

[crystal pond]

We only saw his power in cinematic
But with the fact that alextrasza is aftaid of him and nozdormu said "the most dangerous" it would mean that he is strong af

[crystal pond]

No i meant the gravity it self is really strong

[upper pasture]

yes but "strong af" and the ability to destroy matter on a whim are not the same thing

yes gravity is very strong in black holes, but here on earth we survive, on the moon it's even less so. just because something can be strong doesn't mean it's strong in all cases

[crystal pond]

I compared real gravity and fire, and then translated it into incarnate

I didnt mean that iridikrond have power of black hole lol

[upper pasture]

ok

[harsh mason]

It still all depends on the conditions in which to fight them. If, for example, there is a lot of rock nearby, then there is almost no chance against the Iridikron. But if there are the same conditions: in the air, it does not seem that molten fire is much more dangerous

[upper pasture]

i was speaking as in RL gravity would be stronger but both forces are both equally able to destroy us but in game there's no proof of power in Iridikrond beside what we are told and what we've seen in the one cut scene. we don't know if Fyrakk is becoming stronger than Iridikrond in 10.1. saying Iridikrond is stronger because gravity can destroy matter is a poor parallel because ingame logic/power isn't equal to RL logic. we simply don't know the depths of Irdikrond's power and it's limits

[harsh mason]

Well, Ebyssian says that they are about equal in power. That is, the enhanced Shadow flame Fyrakk should be stronger

[rain cave]

even if they are equal in power, iridikron is more dangerous

from what we've seen of him fyrakk just wants to burn shit

he's eratic

powerful, but loose

iridikron, besides being just as powerful but more disciplined

he has intelligence

allies