beta-ptr-spoilers

[rain cave]

she's just bound there

so to get out of that binding I assume she'll need somebody to take her place

maybe malfurion will just tend to the gardens

study the connection between that place and the dream

I say this especially since I don't see them killing malfurion off in casual questing...

[charred gyro]

No she’s not soulless. Nobody in the SL is soulless. They literally are souls. But soul doesn’t mean alive. Being alive is being tethered to the realm of Life/Reality.

[rain cave]

not neccesarily

because demons are alive

void lords too

and the beings of the shadowlands are made of flesh

[charred gyro]

Ok. It’s a lack of words for all of this lol so instead of saying alive, let’s say “tethered to the realm of Life”. Being dead from the perspective of living mortals is to be severed from the realm of Life.

[rain cave]

they aren't just souls

I'd say being dead is having a lack of physical form for your soul to inhabit

wildseeds are the regeneration of your physical form

for wildgods

[charred gyro]

I’m not sure that’s how all of this is intended. But I’m also in the camp of the whole concept of death being nbd now that we know it’s just another realm that can be traveled in and out of lol

[rain cave]

nbd?

[rain cave]

also the death realm thing is a negative to the storytelling I feel

one they're going to have to explain away

[pulsar minnow]

Not really? She just got a special death animation. Also, the criteria for something to go in a Wild Seed is really only an incredibly strong connection to the dream. The dragon aspects are essentially gods and were empowered by the titans.

[rain cave]

bro you literally see elune rip her soul out and send it straight to the SL

winter queen is surprised to see ysera there, and her death animation shows elune lifting her soul

[pulsar minnow]

She made her into a constellation not the shadowlands

[rain cave]

she didn't make her into a constellation

[pulsar minnow]

… she did.

[rain cave]

her ghost just faded out and there were stars behind it for artistic effect

that was my read of the scene

since I doubt elune can just magically create fucking stars

[rain cave]

yeah?

[pulsar minnow]

That’s a constellation…

[rain cave]

I know what the cinematic is

but to me it just looks like artistic license

the stars shining in a similar shape as her soul gets sent off by elune

because we know elune sent ysera to the sl

what we don't know is if that's elunes job or not

but judging by how surprised the winter queen was to see elunes influence in ardenweald

I'd say it was unusual

[pulsar minnow]

She wasn’t surprised she was just annoyed to see something so strongly bound to her sister’s realm.

[rain cave]

how was she annoyed

she was literally going

"oh shit this is from my sister, that's.. odd"

[pulsar minnow]

Because she was mad at her sister for ignoring her cries for help?

[rain cave]

"haven't seen her in a while"

she didn't seem mad to me

winter queen is just a bit of a disdainful and distant person

who probably doens't like doing her job

that's how I read her whole character

she's been thrust into this system away from her sister against her will

[pulsar minnow]

She asked moonberry “why would I save her pet?”

She had to be convinced to save Ysera

[rain cave]

well yeah because why was ysera any more special than anything else

why would she get special treatment over other wildseeds

but also you have just pointed out indirectly that elune sent her to the shadowlands

considering that apparently ysera REEKED of elunes influence to the winter queen

and that was unusual to her

[pulsar minnow]

Of course she would! She's bound to the Emerald Dream and the magic of Life. Elune is from the Life Pantheon.

[rain cave]

elune isn't really linked to the emerald dream though

just by proxy

but elune magic =/= life magic

[pulsar minnow]

She very much is. It's a realm of Life

[rain cave]

elune is more associated with death, arcane and holy magic than life magic

which is why i believe that just how the winter queen represents life in death

elune is her counterpart

and represents death in life

so in the life realms, her sect would stick out like how the winter queens does in the SL

after all a big part of elunes theming is not interfering in mortal affairs

the night warrior shares many similarities with maw, and other death magic themings

[pulsar minnow]

This is all guesswork

[rain cave]

it's solid guesswork which extrapolates from things they've teased in the game

it's not at a tangent to what's represented, it's very much in line with the things they are doing in the story

the ingame effects for the night warrior on tyrande even had her using the same particles as soul magic from torghast when she was brimming with power

night warrior gets stronger over time as it kills more people and gathers more anima

[pulsar minnow]

I don't think similar colored spells is really a basis for an entire identity of a character. All we know for certain is that Elune is a member of the Life Pantheon and has strong ties to the Emerald Dream. Her iconography is everywhere in Druidism, and is even smack dab on Ysera's face. There's nothing to suggest that Ysera wouldn't go to Ardenweald and then the Emerald Dream to be reborn. The Emerald Dream is literally her dominion.

[rain cave]

cenarius didn't go to ardenweald

[pulsar minnow]

He did.

[rain cave]

he just went straight to the emerald dream

after EN

elune has a mark on druidism becase she's the mother of cenarius who is the guy that introduced mortals to druidism through his fathers magic

just like how tyrande has an impact on druid culture despite not being a druid or having anything to do with life magic

[pulsar minnow]

Again, he didn't die in EN

We knocked him unconcious

[rain cave]

then why was he a ghost at the end

so why was he a ghost

[pulsar minnow]

He wasn't a ghost. He was just chillin

[rain cave]

oh it was the others

ok

but my point stands

the only druids who use elunes magic are boomkins

and it's very distinctly not life magic

[pulsar minnow]

It deals nature damage

[rain cave]

nope

deals arcane damage

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah and so does Spear of Bastion

[rain cave]

good we're in agreement

[pulsar minnow]

Not really? There's nothing proving that Ysera wouldn't just be reborn like every other important life-bound character

and Elune is a member of the Life Pantheon

nothing changes that

[rain cave]

and winter queen is a member of the death pantheon

does that make her entirely death focused?

[pulsar minnow]

yes.

[rain cave]

she has nothing to do with life?

no

the winter queen uses life magic, in the death realm

she represents life in death

[pulsar minnow]

No it's death magic. She's an Eternal One. Her sister uses life magic.

[rain cave]

like mulch, those things that die can renew and cause new growth

she sprouts life from the death given to her

[pulsar minnow]

They might be Life and Death, but they're apart of the cycle of nature that's the point

[rain cave]

elune, by contrast, would ensure that life doesn't overgrow itself

and allows things to die

maintaining the balance

she let those in the tree die, because it was a mortal conflict and not her place to interfere

she interferes when a cosmic force threatens an imbalance in the natural life/death cycle

but otherwise it's been made very clear she leaves mortals to their own devices

representing death in life

things must not grow stale, things must come and go

these are all interpretations derived from all the theming, character building and cosmology they've been building and teasing

if you look at the broker chart you even see ardenweald in the life section of the cosmology

and a fucking moon in the death side of the chart

it's plain as paper

look at the serpents even, they match the sun and moon eclipses

the moon going in front of the sun, consuming its life is the skeletal serpent chasing life down

whereas in the life section, the sun peaking back out after moon leaves is life renewing itself from the tail end of the skeletal serpent

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah I think you’re looking way too deep into this and I know you’re not going to agree with me which is fine. I just think that this storyline with Ysera makes sense as she’s a life-bound entity being reborn like all the other life-bound entities.

[rain cave]

that's not what this argument has been about though

[glad niche]

Then maybe y'all are debating two different topics

[rain cave]

and they put that broker chart knowing full well that people would dig into it for years tearing it apart

everything there is intentional

the way the eclipses mirror the serpents, especially so

and how life is ardenweald

elune keeps life in check the same way the winter queen keeps death in check

you can even look at it another way too

how elune's powers have historically represented arcane, holy(light) and death magic now in SL

which is one half of the spectrum

whereas would you not describe life as chaotic and fleshy?

curse of flesh from void, the many paths and possibilities of free will

the disorder of the natural world from chaos

life and death may very well be constructions of these other facets

after all it seemed like the light and beings of order were almost like enforcers there, whereas the void invasion was very much an invasion

when you go to the shadowlands, your fate is sealed a single path (purpose) was laid before you

very order and light like I would say

[austere gazelle]

until it's retconned

I meant it might have been intentional when it was drawn, but with retcon it'll become irrelevant at some point. Like Chronicles

[glad niche]

Weren't you complaining about the green dragon being revived? Maybe Ive just been doing too much other stuff and not reading in here but this all seems tangential

not you, doggo

[rain cave]

Well yeah I don't like the ysera revival plotline

So soon

But that's not contradictory with this

This whole thing is also tangled with elf fatigue

It's Arguably gotten worse than orc fatigue from back when

4 expansions with nelf specific stories

[crystal pond]

Nelf bias

[cunning fossil]

More like negative Nelf bias

[subtle oar]

That's an unhinged belief to have, tbh

Taliesin went over the rhetoric nelf players have been espousing and called it unhinged

[cunning fossil]

What rhetoric would that be though?

Also how is it unhinged to say that they have been pretty much shafted

For the last 4 years

[pulsar minnow]

I think it’s fair that they kinda got shafted by losing Teldrassil, but beyond that they’ve been getting a lot of attention in the story. But it’s a bit ridiculous to say that Blizzard seriously has a bias AGAINST night elves

[cunning fossil]

I was joking when I said yhat

What I meant was that right now Night Elves keep getting short ends of the stick

[livid walrus]

😮

[pulsar minnow]

mb! But yeah hopefully the Night Elves finally get a new capital in DF with the return of the Aspects

[austere gazelle]

Fuck let him die dammit I'm tired of seeing him everywhere xD

[subtle oar]

They don't tho

[cunning fossil]

Their home is gone and their leader was told that "Actually revenge isn't the right way to go about this. You feeling angry about this is unjustified."

They do get the short end of the stick. Hard.

And, unlike Lorderon, there are actually people who think the burning of teldrassil was a good thing

Which is fucked up

[opaque pewter]

Fair assessment. Though the direction seems to now err towards the important characters not thinking like that. With some luck it will have a satisfying closure

[pulsar minnow]

Okay hear me out. All the character deaths sucked... but Teldrassil was kinda ugly 😅

It was like a giant mountain and not really a tree. Hopefully with modern tech this will look amazing

[opaque pewter]

I'm not sure how that makes it more justifiable heh
But yeah, a better new city out of this would be nice

We also have a cleaned up Gilneas to look forward to eventually in the future if the story thread allows it

[pulsar minnow]

I'm not justifying like the Horde but I kind of like the opportunity for the Night Elves to head in a whole new direction with a good looking capital city

Really hoping for a return to Zin-Azshari architecture

[opaque pewter]

From a game design POV, such concentrated nice work would need that everyone, Horde included would visit the city. WoW has this unique problem that a lot of the stuff has to be made twice and somewhat equal/equivalent because of the two factions. I'm hoping that in the future, it would go with having environmental resource spent with more focused approach rather than spreading it out too thinly as it felt before

[livid walrus]

the graphic of the cost is gone now

for barbershop

[livid walrus]

this is his son.

[pulsar minnow]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/status/1557432491165642752

Simaia - might post spoilers-ish 💙 (@keyboardturn)

some dracthyr male visage form sounds got put in

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 10, 2022, 6:23 PM

[austere gazelle]

That's the same thing anyway

[glad niche]

@proper crystal look at the Twitter link

[proper crystal]

thank you!!!!

[lean yew]

Am I the only one willing to trade malfurion for ysera?

If his bitch ass didn’t get captured by xavius to begin with she wouldn’t have died

It wasn’t even Xavius it was just a shade or whatever

[dense plover]

i dont see any reason to bring ysera back

why cant we move on to new characters?

[uncut vault]

Ysera's like, one of the few characters who got essentially a zone dedicated to putting her to rest and giving her a peaceful afterlife after a traumatic death, bringing her back is just so incredibly pointless

Merithra has a far more compelling narrative as a daughter of an immortal aspect who never expected to become leader, and has to pick up the pieces of a ruined and depressed dragonflight

[lean yew]

She’s -the- green aspect and it’s clear her daughter can’t fill those shoes

And maybe it’s me being selfish because I want her back

[uncut vault]

How is that clear? merithra's always been a wholly competent character, moreso in Dragonflight considering she is why they even have a home on the dragon isles in the first place

if Kalec can fill Malygos', Merithra can fill her mothers'

[lean yew]

Kalec was also appointed with a ritual and such

[uncut vault]

Not sure what that has to do with anything since the appointed aspects have to manually regain their power this xpac anyways

and it doesnt default to the originals

[lean yew]

I love ysera. She’s a great character and she didn’t deserve to die. And they are right it is malfurions fault

[uncut vault]

it's malfurions fault that he did exactly what ysera ended up doing a few quests later? 😛

if its his fault, it's 100% hers too

(spoilers, its neither of their fault, Xavius did it)

[lean yew]

Maybe I’m just irrational and want ysera

But I want ysera at any cost

[uncut vault]

Well at least you're honest haha

[lean yew]

I’m curious if the winter queen will be involved

[rain cave]

not anymore, there are no official aspects since cata

but why do you want ysera

she's done bugger all and her character isn't particularly deep because they've never given time to flesh it out

she just exists in stories as a side-mcguffin

[crystal pond]

Why merithra cant do it?

[rain cave]

if kalecgos can do it, a random blue dragon

especially since kalec also had no other blue dragons to support him

merithra would have all the nelfs, tauren societies as well as the entire green flight, cenarius, othe wild gods to help her

and she's the daughter of ysera

she could even commune with her in the SL probably to ask for guidance

[crystal pond]

Well kalec wasnt a random one, but still
He messed up with this role and now trying to reunite blue dragonflight
And doing this pretty good for the person who didnt even want to become aspect

[livid walrus]

affliction warlock can have two spell locks, but if one use grimoire of sacrifice you gain the pet spell lock in addition to your talent one but they would share CD

[austere gazelle]

Ysera's rebirth is rushed anyway

it's like GOT S8

[rain cave]

I'm surprised wowhead still hasn't made an article about the ysera broadcast text

[plain violet]

Would be a bad idea if overeacting ensue...

[rain cave]

but that's not for wowhead to worry about

[livid walrus]

they acknowledged it 😄

[rain cave]

acknowledged what

[livid walrus]

the different between the centaur in dragon isle and kallimdor

[rain cave]

well yeah they're different tribes

[livid walrus]

bruh

[glad niche]

"ain't no tauren riding my copy paste ass" is what those spikes say to me

[glad niche]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/change-the-weather-and-environment-with-engineering-toys-in-dragonflight-328277?webhook

These are pretty dope

More rp shenanigans

[plain violet]

I love that, the blue sky is pretty.

[glad niche]

Mhmm!

[pulsar minnow]

Nah, I want Ysera back personally. I just wish it didn’t have to cost Malfurion to do so. That said I’m curious if he’ll be “dead” or just in the Shadowlands hanging out. He might come back in a couple expansions and be even more of a super-Druid after learning from the Winter Queen. And frankly, if we wanted a story about a young ruler given leadership of their group after the unexpected death of a parental figure, I see Anduin, Talanji, and Baine already serving those roles. It’s not a new storyline, and Merithra wouldn’t really be anything new in my opinion.

[glad niche]

Winter Queen just starts a bi-yearly exchange program

[tender cypress]

Soon™️

[opaque pewter]

It could work in a way that they are bound. Only Ysera can take over Malfurion and vice-versa
Something that's been done in many other works
We don't know the full story behind this, but it might even just be a temporary take over

[austere gazelle]

well I don't see why they are bound. Take Ysera and Malorne, yes, they are bound somehow, Malf and Ysera? nah

[opaque pewter]

New thread, etc. Anything could happen really lol
This is one example where a leak being partial is causing harm on both sides

[cunning fossil]

I believe they just didn't remove it yet.

[livid walrus]

odd

there should be alliance side too, i yet to see them

[zinc furnace]

how is ret / kitty so far? from what i see from videos from streamers worse then currently

im tyring to decide what troll to main in dragonflight

[ember blaze]

wait for release

[zinc furnace]

well... id like to play it a bit before release to get some stuff on em

[livid walrus]

huh...

[rain cave]

watching

[livid walrus]

it is in odd location

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781339646466195467/1007359700989386784/unknown.png

[pulsar minnow]

It's just standing there?

[livid walrus]

yep

it is in 'hidden' area , as in a canyon of sort

[pulsar minnow]

That's so weird, I guess it's worthy of a report then

[livid walrus]

i did . might be a tempt placement /testing

[cunning fossil]

You will get to when Pre Patch goes live

Also Paladin trees just came out a week ago

And no tuning or number changes have happened so far

So effectiveness is up in the air for all specs. Especially when all specs have bugs

BUT what I can tell you

Is that Ret Tree isn't very good

While Kitty Tree is currently looking horrible

We are hoping for the devs of those classes to have a comprehensive look soon enouhh

[opaque pewter]

Things can change with number tuning too. I'm hoping that cat damage profile will shift away from extreme bite focused, which will substantially change the perception/value of some skills and choice

[crystal pond]

https://www.wowhead.com/beta/npc=186138/cygenoth
Who is this <.<

[ember blaze]

me

[plain violet]

Subject of a quest, it seem...

[mossy meteor]

well there it is now

[dense plover]

I seriously hope they don’t go forward with the Mal trade for ysera

It’s terrible

Maybe let him try, have it fail or have methira step up and stop it

Ysera has a complete arc

Don’t just ignore her daughter and ruin night elf story

People are still upset Tyrande didn’t get to kill Sylvanss

This would also be bad

[pulsar minnow]

It's not really known if Malfurion is actually dying though. This might just be another time in a long series of Malfurion vanishing for a while and coming back.

[subtle oar]

I wouldn't be surprised if he came back as a Wild God after some time

[ancient jasper]

Love the new Engineering weather things, but damn it sucks when they force such crazy CDs on things that only effect you or your party.

[pulsar minnow]

This needs to be baseline

[crystal pond]

I really hope they dont gonna get ysera back and forgot about merithra
It will be more cool if all old aspects will die or step back for new ones to be born
We have Kalec as Blue leader
Wrathion probably gonna be Black leader
Chromie maybe will be next Bronze
And Merithra for Green
It will be more cool then getting DEAD characters back

But then it blizzard

I wish Ysera will be just a spirit guide for merithra and thats it
Not the actual Green Leader

[pulsar minnow]

She's gonna be the Green Leader for sure

Ysera that is

[crystal pond]

I hope they rewrite it, because it so bad

[upper pasture]

It would be nice since remember we’re supposed to get new character and move on to the next chapter or whatever they said yet we’re just getting old characters back :/ oh well it doesn’t really matter I suppose

[zealous basalt]

Maybe at the end they will have to set new aspects and have the old as some sort of guidance?

[subtle oar]

Why would Chromie be the leader?

[pulsar minnow]

If Murozond happens.

[zealous basalt]

Well, if that happens we still have Nozdormu's mate to lead

[pulsar minnow]

Besides Anachronos, Nozdormu’s heir to leadership, Chromie is a very prominent bronze dragon and is definitely a candidate

[cunning fossil]

All dungeon names have been released at least

but OMG

I like the academy idea

[livid walrus]

I think she turns into infinite as well.

Aka eternus

But it is just a thought .

[ionic terrace]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/mobile-auction-house-app-bring-it-back/1300219/8

[austere gazelle]

It's also rushed. She died in Legion, two expack later was renewed in Ardenweald. It's fine. Let the plot rest for a time, bringing her back to life just after feels... rushed. We don't even have time to digest the fact that she is stuck in the shadowlands that she's already leaving it

[upper pasture]

Holy shit yes

It’s coming back

[plain violet]

Don't know how this is possible, but Sarkareth the dracthyr traitor has a humanoid form.

[subtle oar]

She would still not be the first tho. Soridormi would be the next Leader, as she's not dead.

[glad niche]

The dialogue treats it like ysera died protecting malfurian. Wasnt the corrupt tear kinda shot at her in the air?

Her and Malf were both targets

I dont really have a hot or cold against the datamined dialogue. Just thinking through my fuzzy memory of legion

Im used to them retconning old books and such but, its the first (im aware of) time Ive seen them retcon the live game itself

[uncut vault]

Soridormi’s also dying at some point anyways

And thaldraszus sets up Chromie as the leader of the Timewalkers

[subtle oar]

I wouldn't say that actually. The vision we were shown of her being dead was with Kairozdormu standing over her corpse, but he is dead so that future event will never come to pass

[glad niche]

unless a younger Kairozdormu does it. (idk who this is, the dormu just tells me time dragon)

[lean yew]

They should double down and make ysera take even more than malfurion as a sacrifice

[glad niche]

Just refresh the centaur god again

[uncut vault]

Given Kairoz was clearly planning stuff for a while, I wouldn’t put it out of the running that it’s simply pre-WoD Kairoz who did it

[lean yew]

Make it require an equal amount of anima - and dragons who were here since galakrond have got to have a ton of anima

Malfurion and chuck some other night elves in too

Get them off the streets in SW finally and be useful

Why not throw in some worgen too

[zealous basalt]

It ain't a summoning ritual dawg

[lean yew]

Night elf players got the spotlight and were upset about the spotlight they got - now they’re even more upset about it. They could be Draenei who have seen an ounce of lore since tbc in legion

[glad niche]

Idk, They have a point, warlock getting a pitlord. which look vaguely dragonish if you squint

🤔

[lean yew]

What about gnomes

They got what a quest with mechagon

Still don’t have a city

Night elves could have it far worse

[glad niche]

Dont they have a mini city under stormwind?

[cunning fossil]

if you wanna call an attempted genocide of their people "Spotlight" sure I guess

[lean yew]

It is a spotlight

They just didn’t like the spotlight they got

[cunning fossil]

more a "fuck you" I think

[glad niche]

Ive not played ally in years but i could have sworn gnomes have this one tube in SW that goes to an underground tinker town

[lean yew]

What about demon hunters

[cunning fossil]

That's not spotlight that's literally a middle finger lmao

[lean yew]

Talk about forgotten

[zealous basalt]

i dont think nobody would like that kind of spotlight

[lean yew]

Idk all the whining about lore is exhausting to me

[cunning fossil]

Turns out some people are passionate about their playable race

who knew

[lean yew]

Wow lore has never been great

[glad niche]

I must have missed who was whining

[lean yew]

Twitter

[glad niche]

oooh

I mean

[cunning fossil]

It's not whining it's justified outrage

[glad niche]

Its twitter

[lean yew]

It’s whining

Malfurion can go take another nap

[cunning fossil]

sheesh

that's pretty fucked up

havn't seen him in 6 years

[glad niche]

He'll be back

[cunning fossil]

first time he's back

[deep pawn]

There's the tram but its not a city. Gnomes have a small district in Ironforge

[cunning fossil]

he dies/

[glad niche]

ooooh, gotcha

[lean yew]

Malfurion can get the spotlight back once illidan returns

[crimson jasper]

tbf malfurion is too powerful of a character

[deep pawn]

We last heard anything from Malfurion in BfA. It's only been a few years since the dark shore war front

[crimson jasper]

getting rid of him is better

[lean yew]

Tbh I haven’t liked malfurion well ever

[crimson jasper]

not that he ever has been useful but with the power he techncially has we could just throw him against anything and he'd win

[lean yew]

He was the shitty storm rage brother

[crimson jasper]

tbh I would have preferred Ysera staying dead

[deep pawn]

Nah, he's gonna be come a god like figure to parallel Vol jin

[lean yew]

He was stupid in wc3 and has basically always been stupid except when he blew the horn against archimonde

[crimson jasper]

and let Merithra get the spotlight

but I take Ysera over Malfurion

[lean yew]

Merithra is not impressive based on my first alpha impressions

Just felt like she was in over her head

[crimson jasper]

yea cause she aint getting character developement past "being Yseras daughter"

but as I said, I take Ysera over Malfurion, making the best out of what we get

[lean yew]

She isn’t an aspect. She didn’t defeat galakrond pre-powers. She’s just a normal dragon

[crimson jasper]

yea so are the others now

it's all about getting the aspect power back

[glad niche]

I dont remember seeing Malf much at all during Cata and MoP, or WoD, then he was pretty involved for druids in Legion, had a chunk of early BfA story surrounding him.

Then (as a druid main mind you) when he HAS been at the front of the action (legion and legion), for all his toted ability he always seems... squishy? Like hes always getting bamboozled like hes a senile old fart.

Let him nap, learn some fancy ardenweald magic, and come back (cause blizz on a no one actually dies kick)

[lean yew]

The aspect dragons are still the largest and most powerful of their respective flights

Even without their titan powers

And they were all impressive before they got their titan powers anyway

Which is why they were given them

[crimson jasper]

I like the old ones

but you seem overly obsessed tbh^^;

[glad niche]

Wrathion isnt an aspect proper either, but hes still acting as the black flight leader, ijs

[lean yew]

Wrathions inexperience and lack of power is shown quite clearly in the first zone lol

[glad niche]

Like there seems to be merit for yseras daughter being a leader, or ysera coming back

[lean yew]

I get why people want that storyline

But we have it

We have it with Anduin. We have it with Baine . We have it with wrathion.

How many more “child filling their parents overly large shoe” storylines do we need

[crimson jasper]

same as we have "we sacrife something to get a old chara back"

but alas

I dont mind either

[glad niche]

I mean, hes learning? But noones pulled the rug out from under him yet. And Neltharion isnt coming back. So Im just pointing out the idea that the leaders HAVE TO be aspect or aspect promoted, is flawwed

[lean yew]

I can’t even remember the last time we sacrificed a character to get another back

[crimson jasper]

well wrathion does have

eh

[lean yew]

Have we ever

[crimson jasper]

brain

tbc dragon guy

to "fight" for aspect

[lean yew]

I don’t think we’ve ever had that in wow

[crimson jasper]

dont take this literally, the concept is what I am talking about

[lean yew]

It proves a good point it’s not an overused cliche or trope

[glad niche]

Id personally prefer ebisian as the black flight leader, he very chill and level headed. BUT Wrathion has a one up in the form of having a lot more knowledge regarding old gods

[crimson jasper]

you could aruge in the exact opposite direction too ya know

[glad niche]

Maybe they can co-op

[crimson jasper]

xd

[lean yew]

I think ebyssian is still evil

[crimson jasper]

him?

[glad niche]

when has he ever been evil?

[crimson jasper]

why would he

he is literally a non corrupted black dragon

[lean yew]

It’s literally in black dragons nature to deceive. See: Onyxia

[crimson jasper]

and he was never evil

[glad niche]

Hes been close to controlled by the old gods, but wrathion gave the player something to fix that, which ebisian used

[crimson jasper]

rhm

*ehm

not really

thats saying "every german is a nazi"

xD

[lean yew]

You’re thinking ebonhorn

[crystal pond]

Cause they was corrupted
Ebyssian nevee was corrupted

[lean yew]

I’m talking sabellian*

[crimson jasper]

that is ebyssian

[crystal pond]

Oh

[crimson jasper]

ah

sabellian

yea

[crystal pond]

Yeah then

[glad niche]

I was talking about ebisian / ebonhorn from the start

[lean yew]

Sabellian is 100% evil

I can’t be convinced otherwise lmao

Not falling for onyxia 2.0

[subtle oar]

[crystal pond]

I still cant find a mom joke that he is doing in dangeon that ppl are talking about

[lean yew]

Ima pick wrathion for new black dragon aspect

To hell with sabellian

[uncut vault]

That’s not why they became aspects lol

[lean yew]

They killed galakrond and impressed the titan keepers no?

[uncut vault]

The whole reason they got their powers wasn’t because they were super strong already, it’s because they had potential that Tyr saw in them

[glad niche]

I wasnt TALKING about whoever this SABEL is. I was talking about the pros/cons of Wrathion and Ebonhorn

[uncut vault]

“Being an aspect” doesn’t mean anything inherent to a single person

Any worthy dragon can be an aspect

There’s no power threshold they need to cross

[lean yew]

No but they were the best of their kind pre-aspect.

[subtle oar]

Sabellian, Deathwing/Neltharions Lieutenant, the highest ranking Black Dragon outside of Nefarion, Onyxia and Sinestra

[uncut vault]

And there can be other dragons who embody the best of their kind now

See: literally Kalec’s entire story lol

[crystal pond]

Many ppl want Sabellian or Ebyssian as black leader and droping Wrathion when he was like doing the Earth-Warder thing, Defeated the Old God, and trying to fix the mistakes that he maked
But ppl like "he is a whelp he dont know how to rule"
??????? How he soppused to rule when he never have chance to try to rule?

[uncut vault]

An aspect doesn’t even technically need to be a dragon lol, Thrall filled the role temporarily in Cata

[lean yew]

Kalec earned it in cata though

Merithra got the spot because of whose daughter she was

[glad niche]

Yeah, Im just lost cause the tangent about that one and all black dragons evil started after I was talking about how it probably wouldnt be a bad idea if Wrathion/Ebisian co-lead their flight. Cause each has merit and characteristics the other lacks

[uncut vault]

She literally had a questline of earning leadership in BfA lol

[subtle oar]

I'm kinda really over councils and co-lead shit tbh.

[uncut vault]

Like, literally her only major story beat has been “Merithra pulls her dragonflight out of depression to help save the world”

[lean yew]

Boo merithra boo

[glad niche]

shrug I mean Alexstrasza is apparently the queen of em all, but each flight still has a leader or representative

[lean yew]

And then in Dragonflight is unable to do anything without the player character babying her

[uncut vault]

Well I see we’re at the point where the facade of logic falls again lol

If you just irrationally like Ysera that’s fine lol

But there’s no justification for why she needs to come back when other flights have never needed that

[lean yew]

Yet, that we know of

Merithra currently on the alpha is pretty helpless - idk if you did ohnaran plains but she almost comes off just annoyingly pathetic

[uncut vault]

She literally leads the whole assault to defeat the primalists lol

[lean yew]

In which all she does is destroy totems once you mark them

Doesn’t even help kill the bad guy

[uncut vault]

Like the whole story is “the green dragons are easily beating back the primalists, the centaur will give the primalists an edge”

[lean yew]

You have to gather her forces for her, she almost dies when the horn was first blown

Literally someone sacrificed themselves to say her

[uncut vault]

There’s an entire quest solely dedicated to flying with merithra as she point-blank explains the situation, I’m not sure you paid attention to that lol

[crystal pond]

Why then not get back Malygos and Neltharion then if Ysera going back?
Like, oh Kalec and Wrathion cant do the thing let the old aspects be leaders again
Like bruh

[uncut vault]

Sounds like she prepared better than Ysera then

😛

[glad niche]

Bet Ysera is only coming back to train her daughter 🤔 If Merithra is doing so wobbly in the alpha, Logic says we will see ysera come back (cause of datamine) and also begin teaching Merithra leadership stuff (if needed cause I truthfully cant tell from whats being said in here whats fact and whats opinion)
Late expac Ysera might disappear again for all we know 🤷

[pulsar minnow]

because Malygos and Neltharion went insane for 1. But also they're not tied to the dream like Ysera

[lean yew]

Her introduction on the alpha is “oh no she almost died but someone had to protect her”

And die for her

[uncut vault]

Ysera literally died corrupted lol

[lean yew]

Compare that to ysera who went head first and died trying to help malfurion

[pulsar minnow]

Still tied to the dream though

[glad niche]

mmm the tear of elune purified her right before she passed on tho

[uncut vault]

Ysera is not the only dragon ever to be tied to the dream

[crystal pond]

Still we have Merithra
Its not excuse to get Ysera back just because

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but she is. Wild Gods, Demigods, anything that has strong ties to the Dream comes back one day or another

[glad niche]

I think Neltharion cant come back due to him not really existing anymore when deathwing was killed.

[crystal pond]

Neltharion tied to the Azeroth
Malygos tied to the Nexus
Still, they dead dead
Let Ysera be dead in SL

[pulsar minnow]

Ursoc died corrupted but he was in the process of coming back before they killed him for a stupid cinematic

[lean yew]

It’s not like all emerald dragons come back after their death

[pulsar minnow]

That's not how this works

The Emerald Dream is a special case.

[lean yew]

I’m fact ysera is the only one who we know ever has been sent to ardenweald for rebirth

[glad niche]

Neltharion was long gone due to the madness altering him. And he wasnt purified in the end. He died old god goop.

[lean yew]

Was it because of elunes intervention? Or was it because of her connection to the dream

[uncut vault]

Ysera cannot be naturally reborn via the dream anymore

[lean yew]

I’m aware. I didn’t say she could

[uncut vault]

Her whole plot in Shadowlands is being fully tied to Ardenweald due the circumstances of her rebirth

[lean yew]

But when she was first sent there it was for rebirth

She became a seed

[uncut vault]

I wasn’t responding to you

[glad niche]

I mean late SL she has dialogue with Tyrande saying "If Elune wills it, I will return"

I cant tell how much is surprise pikachu about her actually coming back (Cause I guess Elune willed it) and how much is "The senile drood is napping again??!"

[uncut vault]

If you guys are fine with blizzard writing a plot contrivance to bring her back, that’s fine, you can like a character enough to excuse contrivances

[lean yew]

I think many people expected her to come back just not right after slands

[uncut vault]

But Ysera being reborn would not follow established logic

[lean yew]

However there also wouldn’t be a better time than during Dragonflight

[uncut vault]

She isn’t a part of a cycle of rebirth, she isn’t uniquely needed as an aspect

Anything written in to make those not the case would be contrivances

[glad niche]

To be fair, didnt SL itself defy established logic?

[lean yew]

That we know of*

[uncut vault]

Yes; that’s the contrivances I’m talking about

[pulsar minnow]

She was charged by the Titans and Eonar with protecting the Emerald Dream. How is she not needed?

[uncut vault]

I’m sure they’ll write in a plot reason why she’s needed

[glad niche]

I was under the impression SL was in part recieved so poorly due to how much it upended death lore

[uncut vault]

It won’t be one that’s established in current canon p

[crystal pond]

Lol ppl again mistaken Emerald dream and ardenweld thing
ANYONE trhou whole cosmoc who served to the nature and life can be reborn in Ardenweald
Its not about Emerald dream, its only Azeroth thing here

[lean yew]

But just because one wasn’t established before for the one other aspect who ascended doesn’t mean it isn’t for green dragons

[glad niche]

Anyways, Ima go back to Ori and the Wisps now. Ill check in to see whos still on the hill later o/

[crimson jasper]

tbh

theres 2 things

[lean yew]

Yes we’ve seen Kalec become the new aspect - but just because it happened there doesn’t mean it’s the same for them all.

[uncut vault]

the only divine purpose of the aspects was to prevent the hour of twilight, and again, that was never a role unique to those specific characters

[crimson jasper]

@lean yew wont listen to anything anyways cause he wants Ysera back, and other people are fine with bot, and others would have preferred Merithra take over

ok thats 3

[uncut vault]

nothing about being an aspect or fulfilling those charges is unique to those specific five people

[crimson jasper]

ALSO

excuseing Merithras "incompetence" with player quests is ridiculous

at this point I can say Jaina wasnt able to win because X

we didnt beat Sylvanas because I was there

I did the quest dude

[uncut vault]

there has never been anything written that demands Ysera nad Ysera alone be the aspect and fulfill that duty. If they write in a reason for that, it will be a plot contrivance to excuse her return to Azeroth

if you are fine with them writing that, then thats fine

I and many others personally are not

[pulsar minnow]

I'm not arguing she is the only one that can be aspect

[crystal pond]

We have Kalec, who already filled blue leadership, and Wrathion is about to happen as a black leader. For sure we dont need Ysera

[lean yew]

We’ve seen that the other aspects are clearly more powerful, even without aspect powers than their non-aspect counterpart dragons

[pulsar minnow]

I'm saying that because of her history as the Aspect of Life and the Guardian of the Dream she is a very likely candidate for rebirth like all other Wild Gods and Demi Gods

[crimson jasper]

power isnt everything

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah sure, but we also don't necessarily need Merithra either. Either would both work as leaders of the Green Dragonflight.

[lean yew]

But it may be in an expansion about dragon aspects trying to get their power back

[crimson jasper]

in fact, often in stories, actual power is the least poeple need

[uncut vault]

it explicitly is not lol

the entire plot of waking shores is setting up ideological battles for who is worthy to become the black aspect

nothing to do with power

the entire origin of the dragons is that power isnt what makes someone strong

[crimson jasper]

yup

[crystal pond]

Yeah

[crimson jasper]

as I said above

it is done a lot in writing

[uncut vault]

the oathstones aren't restored via strength, they're restored via the members of their flights returning and fulfilling their duties

the green oathstone is restored by merithra and the centaur coming together to protect the dream

[crystal pond]

This is the reason why we need Merithra as a leader

[lean yew]

It just seems silly to argue that any possible reason given for ysera needing to return is unacceptable without actually seeing more than some datamined text

[crimson jasper]

same as your obsession is kinda unreasonable ;P

both can work

[uncut vault]

I'm sure they'll write some internally logical reason for themselves to bring her back

[crystal pond]

Ppl focused on Ysera because its fav character and just blined for any new one, that can do it as good as Ysera did, but they just dont want to allow this happen

[uncut vault]

but narratively, there is no reason for her to return

she died, she got an entire xpac of laying her story to rest and showing her family move on

she is not narratively needed to fulfill her previous role, there are other candidates

metatextually, ysera is no longer needed as a present story character

[crimson jasper]

it's often the "people love this chara" why characters get brought back

[crystal pond]

If she gonna return as a Emerald Spirit i will be ok with that

[crimson jasper]

backfired hard with arthas

xd

[lean yew]

Arthas deserved what he got >.>

[crystal pond]

Arthas in SL was pain

[uncut vault]

He didn't though lol

[crimson jasper]

yea maybe she will return in a state of "not being aspect and leader of the flight"

but being an advisor

[uncut vault]

the whole point of his story in Shadowlands was that he didnt deserve that end

[crimson jasper]

etc

[uncut vault]

it was a tragedy that he didnt get the same chance Sylvanas did

[crimson jasper]

this tells a lot xD

[crystal pond]

I hope all old aspects will get that chance
Be advisors for new ones

[crimson jasper]

could be nice

[pulsar minnow]

What's wrong with the ones we have now though

[crimson jasper]

although some flights will cleary stay with tier leaders

but as we have green and bronze atm are nice candidates for new aspects

[crystal pond]

Nozdormu for sure
Dont know about Alex

[crimson jasper]

nothing, just following along logically with how the story would develop

[uncut vault]

Alexstrasza and Kalec are fine, they're clearly fit for the role and have narrative potential ahead of them

[lean yew]

Sylvannas is lucky to have gotten the second chance she essentially got. Maybe I just fundamentally disagree that those who commit genocide deserve a second chance

[uncut vault]

Kalec is even getting his own plot of an older dragon guiding him into being a better leader

[crimson jasper]

you clearly dont know arthas's story much I guess

[lean yew]

It’s like saying sargeras should get another chance to be a titan - absolutely not

[crystal pond]

Look at Sindragosa
Man
She is protector of Arcane Vault and now advisor for Kalec
WHY WE CANT DO IT WITH YSERA AND OTHER DEAD ONES???

[crimson jasper]

yea thats not even a copmparsion

you dont know what you talking about

[uncut vault]

Nozdormu is a story of tragic inevitability, and given his story with Chromie starting in leveling, I wouldnt be surprised if we see him slowly groom her for leadership over the course of the expansion

[lean yew]

I don’t know what I’m talking about?

What part of arthas story do I not know about based on my sentence

[crimson jasper]

comparsion of arthas and sargeras like that? yea clearly not

[pulsar minnow]

Because she's a blue Dragon and has... magic. and can just kinda do that. Neltharion, Malygos, they both went insane and don't have arcane clones of themselves or whatever.

[crimson jasper]

I wont even argue, not worth my time xD

[lean yew]

Arthas made morally grey choices that led him to eventually commit genocide

[crimson jasper]

I leave that to whoever wants to

[uncut vault]

Sindragosa being written in to have an arcane simulacrum to guide kalec with is the same kind of contrivance as bringing Ysera back

[lean yew]

Sargeras believes he was protecting everyone by wiping out all life

[crimson jasper]

reasons dont justify the means I assume you wanna tell me, which is true but yet still theres more behind ones actions to judge them for

[uncut vault]

and like I said earlier, its up to personal acceptance as to if you're okay with said contrivances

[lean yew]

Arthas believed he was protecting everyone by culling stratholme

It’s the same story

[crimson jasper]

🙄

oh boy

imma grab food

hf

[uncut vault]

Personally, Im fine with Sindragosa's because it's written in a way that doesn't undermine Kalec, and isn't bringing her back in full or with the needless sacrifice of another notable character

[lean yew]

Great discussion

“You’re wrong, bye”

[uncut vault]

if Ysera ends up returning solely to be an advisor to Merithra, and if she wasnt sacrificing Malfurion to do it, I'd be fine with her too

[crimson jasper]

no matter what I say you will only ever believe in what you say anyways

you literally are doing it all converstaion long xD

so yea

you are wrong

bye

[lean yew]

No I agree with Protergauge after he explained the way he did

[crystal pond]

Yeah Sindragosa is good in this expac
And logical because she just arcane clone and not actual sindragosa

[lean yew]

It is true I’m willing to accept whatever reason for ysera coming back because I’m overlooking the fact that there isn’t an established lore reason to bring her back

[crystal pond]

I remeber how ppl react in first place like "but she dead"

[uncut vault]

Nothing about Ysera needs that sacrifice, nor does it need her to inherently be the leader. The sacrifice was written in as a last minute "oh btw elune needs a sacrifice" in 9.2.5 in a plot that otherwise never mentioned such stipulations

[lean yew]

They should’ve just made it so after anima was restore she could leave

And people would’ve had much less of an issue

[crimson jasper]

should just leave the dead dead tbh

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lean yew]

Nah you’re wrong bye

/s

[crimson jasper]

awwww cute look he imitates me

nerd

xD

if you want to argue, every weight of her death is now also invalidated

but tbf shadowlands is just a happy fuin place everyone can go an come from anyways

[pulsar minnow]

And who's to say Ysera is sacrificing Merithras entire character? Chromie, Ebyssian, and heck even Merithra are all major characters and get a lot of screen time, yet they're not aspects and don't need to be aspects in order to have a storyline surrounding them.

Merithra doesn't need to be an aspect to be a cool character

[lean yew]

Chromie is probably the most evident of that

[crimson jasper]

I dont think he implies that, just that Ysera wasnt needed

[crystal pond]

Merithra supposed to be a leader and aspects
Its her storyline sinse legion

[lean yew]

The most telling sign is that she doesn’t even have a unique model

[crystal pond]

Because when ysera died she understand that its her burden now to lead her flight because there nobody other around to do that

[lean yew]

She’s literally a demon hunter with no changes lol

Even the face tattoos are demon hunter facial tattoos

[crystal pond]

Yep

[lean yew]

I had assumed the person in the loading screen was merithra when first datamined

And they were going to update her model

[crystal pond]

I was happy about it but then ppl datamined ysera thing

[lean yew]

But now we know it’s just ysera lmao

@uncut vault maybe you’ll know because I haven’t been able to determine otherwise - is it stated why dracthyr can’t be black dragons?

[crystal pond]

I hope ysera gonna be back only as a spirit guide and thats it
Her story ended in legion (by her death) and ended even more when she get bond with Ardenweald

[pulsar minnow]

They can tho

They're every dragonflight

[lean yew]

There isn’t a black dragon skin

There’s like an infinite-ish skin

But it’s more ash

[pulsar minnow]

Depends on your marking colors

[lean yew]

It’s not black dragon

It annoys me because I wanted a black dragon skin as a dracthyr

[lean yew]

I want this

You can’t make that

[uncut vault]

They can be visually, they just don't have many abilities for them since that's more the base utility, whereas the specs each focus on two flights

[pulsar minnow]

Well that's like dark red. The new Dragon model I sent should be replacing that old one

[uncut vault]

You can make one pretty close

this is the leader of the dracthyr

[lean yew]

Yeah I can see it

I tried making one like that but it just felt off

It’s close but just seems a tiny bit off

[pulsar minnow]

Well her skin options aren't actually accessible

and armor

[lean yew]

Maybe im nitpicking

[pulsar minnow]

they're unique to her character

[crimson jasper]

you are nitpicking yes

xd

cause it is but an old model

and dracthyr very much have the black dragon skin as shown

[pulsar minnow]

Also, Black Dragons are like more brown-ish nowadays. Take Wrathion's new look

[crimson jasper]

yup

[pulsar minnow]

kinda just happened with the modern artstyle

[lean yew]

I just don’t get why there is only one black dragon customization for dracthyr

It’s close but it still feels off

The image you post - compare the two. It’s not quite right

[uncut vault]

huh, weird

[lean yew]

Posted*

[uncut vault]

she's got the perfect colors so no clue why

[lean yew]

That’s why I was asking

It seems so weird

Especially since the dracthyr leader looks so good

[pulsar minnow]

It's definitely very weird

[lean yew]

That’s why I thought there was a reason

It seems like an active decision

[pulsar minnow]

I really wanted to use her armor for my character but this is like the best I got for my Black Dragon

[lean yew]

All the flights have multiple color tones available

I’m probably gonna settle on the like tan-albino color

Or blue

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah I was torn between blue or what I just sent

I need to see it with in-game lighting to really get a good idea

[lean yew]

I stopped re-customizing my dracthyr every week

It takes too long xd

I just random a few times until it looks good

[pulsar minnow]

I've been messing with the Dressing Room so much when I'm bored that I remember the options I always pick when making mine

I always do the same Horn Style, Snout, Ears, Cheek, etc..

I just mess with the colors

[lean yew]

I very much like the abilities for dracthyr

[uncut vault]

this is as close as i could get, thats such a weird choice

she's easily got the best black dragon look

[lean yew]

See. That’s what I’m saying

[uncut vault]

and her armor colors fit black dragons way more

[lean yew]

It’s weird right

They couldn’t have just forgotten it

There has to be a reason

[uncut vault]

she even has unique horns and face patterns

that players dont get

[lean yew]

I’m curious to know if there is a lore reason outside of the existing lore for dracthyr we have access to

[pulsar minnow]

I would kinda understand if they want to make her stand out as the leader of the Dracthyr… but cmon

[lean yew]

Maybe there are hints in the starting zone I didn’t notice or lore pages I didn’t read. Idk

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t think there is

[lean yew]

But that’s why I asked - it’s very deliberate feeling. It could be oversight. Could be intentional.

[pulsar minnow]

I hope some start advocating for that skin tone though because I would love for my black dragon to match that

[lean yew]

And for a race they sold on customization why can’t I have a black dragon dracthyr lol

[pulsar minnow]

Well there is the deep black and brown which are black dragon skin tones. It’s just that there’s no middle ground option like Emberthal’s

They should definitely enable it for players if they can though

Oh and Dracthyr are still missing two sets of shoulder pads that were shown in the customization preview for some unknown reason

[lean yew]

If ysera is returning I am going to guess there is a cinematic for it

and I am going to press x to doubt that they'd be able to change it if they wanted to at this point.

It's unfortunate in a situation like this where there is heavy backlash on something that is -likely- to happen but the entire end-game story for at least 10.0 and likely 10.1 is completely fleshed out

[dense plover]

if they were committed to changing, its definitely not too late

theyve massively improved their cinematic pipeline so it doesnt take forever anymore

[deep pawn]

Depends on which type

If game rendered, maybe. If cgi, too late.

But they've done a lot less of those since the BfA ones

[uncut vault]

at least one half of this will be an in game cutscene

that's where the datamined dialogue will be

it'll probably end up that the end of the datamined dialogue transitions into a full cinematic where Ysera is brought back

so at the very least, the context of what happens can still be changed

IE make it not permanent, make it not a full sacrifice, set up malfurion coming back at some point rather than the finality it currently has

[deep pawn]

They probably don't know what to do with Malfurion cause he is powerful, but also very committed to the dream so he's not a super active character unless the dream itself is threatened

So I can see why Blizzard would swap him out with a female character who's likely to be more active even if her domain is the same.

[ember blaze]

didnt a tiny axe beat malfurion in bfa? 💀

[proper palm]

Rebuild Kaldorei culture and people?
I find it so bad the fact that characters die ans revive .. it ruins everything, then there are so many possibilities with Malfurion but they are no longer very good at writing, I don't even know if there's an interesting character left on Azeroth other than a handful like Turalyon (At least if they were exploited..)

even the way they make it die.. Looks like they were out of idea and inspiration 😭

[deep pawn]

That's not what druids do for the night elves. Malfurion probably rather go back to sleep

I'm sure after Staghelm they rather stick with the priestesses

Well,, the small number that's left

[crystal pond]

They need to do DF story atleast on medium
Because SL story sucked so much, that many ppl droped wow because of that

[uncut vault]

blizz tried their best to tone down malfurion's ridiculous godhood in BfA but people clearly didnt respond well

so I think they just dont know how to use him lol

its an issue with night elves in general, they have all of these absurd godlike powers and literal god allies

how do you write a story around that, especially when they're restricted to one faction?

the answer seems to be: they dont know how lmao

[proper palm]

That's why I don't like Danuser And I'm scared of DF lore.. When you see that almost every character was ruined at his hands, especially Sylvanas, now Malfurion.. and The big lore joke (Shadowland) 😂

[ember blaze]

@proper palm should you be blaming everything on one person

[opaque pewter]

I feel that it will start to converge. The sooner people don't care about this "faction power", the better it will be for everyone as we enter an age of shared story

Less about me vs them, more about me and them

[crystal pond]

He is the guy who is responsible for the narration in the plot
So yeah he is the main one who did this disaster with the story

[rain cave]

What?

Malfurion is a narrator?

What

[uncut vault]

they're talking about Danuser

[rain cave]

Danuser isn't a narrator either though

I'm confused

But also the logic of people being fine with malfurion going because he does nothing is weird

Because he's just not been in the stories

Whereas ysera is worse

She's been in the sl story

But hasn't done anything of worth or note

[crystal pond]

He is 👀

[rain cave]

How

Where does he narrate

Does he even have any voice acting in the game?

[uncut vault]

I think this is just bad wording for narrative direction, which is what Danuser writes

not the literal canon narration

[crystal pond]

Yeah i mean that
English moment sorry

[ember blaze]

give it up for yet another hunter update

[pure tapir]

its friday and the hunter team likes giving us a weekly message about it
sry rest of ya class teams dont love you like the hunters love hunters

might help to get in touch with your class reps at the talent department and inform them you would like weekly updates

kindly

[rain cave]

what are the hunter teams smoking

fr

they're on it

you'd think there would be some sort of standardized thing

"each class team can only give an update within certain timeframes"

or each team has to also provide updates

the way the hunter team makes posts implies they're allowed to just make posts every week when they want to

and that the others just.. aren't

[ember blaze]

i also heard that the dev for priest or druid quit

[rain cave]

lol

just like that?

why

[ember blaze]

[rain cave]

no way did they quit over community feedback

[ember blaze]

i mean, nobody provided a reason

could just be life

[rain cave]

true

[glad niche]

I mean, customers being cantankerous is plenty valid reason to quit any job that deals with said customer.

[rain cave]

not when said job is also about dealing with the community

if you're a filmmaker, or an artist

and you can't take people critiquing your art

then that's a failure imo

[glad niche]

I more so mean there's many underlying possibilities. Beyond critique

Working phones at a dogshow company, I once had a women (who called 3 hours after closeing for a show) scream at me over the phone that she was going to end her life (graphically worded) because i wouldnt break rules to take the entry.

Customers can be extremally nasty 1 on 1

[rain cave]

I mean, in that situation if there's nothing more to be said on your end you just hang up if they're being unreasonable

[glad niche]

Yeh I did

[rain cave]

time is money friend

[glad niche]

Just that if someone in the game community were a source of legit stressful harassment, its valid

[rain cave]

blizz devs are pretty anonymous though in terms of what they work on thought I thought

like we wouldn't know who specifically was "the guy in charge of druid talents"

so don't know how there would be targeted harrassment

[glad niche]

for the most part id assume so. Other then friends /family knowing and spreading the grapevine

People online can be kinda terrifying when they don't like something.

But it could have just as easily been something as seemingly random as like, maternity leave

[rain cave]

at the same time though

if you see people being overly vile and unreasonable on the internet

you just, don't heed their words

different story if somebody is tracking down the druid dev and DMing them a picture of their family

[ancient jasper]

So we're expecting the Demon Hunter trees some time in later November, right?

[glad niche]

I thought DH was next week?

[ancient jasper]

Is it? Hadn't seen anything about it

[ember blaze]

no

monks are highly likely next week

[glad niche]

they have been doing 1-2 a week

all i remember is Monk and DH are left

[ember blaze]

the only thing datamined for dh is the hunt

monk has multiple abilities already

[glad niche]

Point being the trees have come out 1-2 every week.

so late november will only happen if they have a major delay Id assume

[ember blaze]

maybe they made new abilities for dh 👀

[pure tapir]

they will probably need to. i would be interested in the night elf and blood elf heritage to come through on the demon hunters, maybe some arcane or nightmare dream like spells for dh

[glad niche]

Nelfs have heritage gear?

I know belf had theirs added

[coarse quail]

Hope they will have some changes for monkssss🙏🙏🙏

[pure tapir]

no i mean demon hunters adding spells based on the fact they are currently blood elf and night elf exclusive

[pure tapir]

gnoll allied race when?

[subtle oar]

Jumping will actually affect your DPS with the new darkmoon decks

I've been training for this my entire WoW life

[ember blaze]

land on A and never jump again

[cosmic beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/580059515836301335/1007793255150276618/nwhcrut4vah91.png
@uncut lintel

[uncut lintel]

too true

they fucking copied buz lightyear for that set

[cosmic beacon]

i like the set, just the visual bug with the head looks hilarious

[uncut lintel]

nahthe set is nasty

[cosmic beacon]

feral enjoyer, opinion deflected

[uncut lintel]

feral hater, opinion deflected

[cosmic beacon]

good spec enjoyer, opinion based

[uncut lintel]

good spec because youre bad at everything else, opinion based

[cosmic beacon]

[cunning fossil]

that is if you use this.
I know for a FACT I can't use this lmao.

I'll go with the guaranteed Ace or the Ordered one instead

way more predicatable 😛

[cunning fossil]

WoW Players when an NPC is highlighted that isn't just another typical straight white able person:

https://tenor.com/view/temper-tantrum-angry-gif-15580525

[pulsar minnow]

Are people seriously freaking out over a deaf centaur?

[cunning fossil]

Yes, yes they are

They're literally going "Ugh why should we CAREEEEEE???"

[upper pasture]

typical

[cunning fossil]

Every time without failure man

Every single post about inclusion has a bunch of dumbass chuds. But I especially hate the ones that go "Well you see. I am actually neutral on the matter. I don't care either way. I just want the game to be good and for them to stop pushing for these characters to be seen. 🤓"

[pulsar minnow]

I wonder how they’d react if Drek’thar was added in this expansion..

[cunning fossil]

People are actually pointing it out and saying "Drekthar is in the game already yet no body is making a big deal about him???"

Like dude he was in thw game for years and just because social media wasn't prominent doesn't mean people didn't celebrate when they saw him and stuff in original Warcraft

These people are just shocked by the fact that they can, in fact, see MORE people be happy about representation in this day and age

[plain violet]

They are a bunch of bigot hiding behind "neutrality" and "no agenda just good game"

They would clearly cry about Drek'thar if added now. And about everything that is not straight white macho men...

More representation is good, Drek'thar was a already really rare example in the game were a disability like a eye or arm was just a fashion choice.

(Seriously, Zul'jin point is that he choose not to)

[cunning fossil]

Yeah they would absolutely piss themselves that there are other things in the game that aren't Macho Straight Able White Man- Adjacent.

Also the fact that some of these people are probably those that advocated for doing Red Dragonflight enslavement again

It's easy to ignore these people thank God but it does get tiring after like

Every comment section looking the EXACT same

[rain cave]

tbf though "no agenda good game" is a good thing to go by as a developer, since nobody likes to hear an agenda even if it's a 'good' one, inclusion of characters who are deaf or whatever are not related to either agenda or quality of the game

it's just a character trait

I didn't even think people would say anything about the deaf centaur

because it's just.... deafness?

like we have blind shamans already

as mentioned

[upper pasture]

i mean, inclusion isn't a bad thing and if you think it is well...maybe that makes you a bad person.

[rain cave]

inclusion is neutral

it's not a bad thing

nor is it, per se a good thing

[upper pasture]

tell that to the chuds screaming over the deaf centaur

[rain cave]

because you can have bad inclusion or good inclusion

I'm ngl

chud being used unironically just sounds like peak neckbeard speak

it doesn't help the argument

[upper pasture]

nothing helps arguing with you honestly

[rain cave]

we're not arguing

[upper pasture]

i know

[rain cave]

because I like the deaf character

and don't think it's something to get annoyed over

[upper pasture]

i don't think anything is really worth getting annoyed about in WoW. especially the way people cry over things being added to a game.

[rain cave]

I mean

the ysera malfurion thing

I never really get annoyed at story stuff and usually am devils advocate for that even if it's bad

but like

damn

[upper pasture]

do i think it's stupid? sure. i'm not out here making posts about it

[rain cave]

that annoyed me severely

I mean you shouldn't bash people who are just airing grievances over legitimate concerns

it's feedback

[upper pasture]

at the end of the day we will play through DF and then what? does it ultimately matter?

[rain cave]

does anything matter then

[upper pasture]

not really

[rain cave]

that's just a flawed argument

because yes in a vacuum nothing matters

it's almost like the human psyche is all about finding your own meaning and importance in things

[upper pasture]

i mean you can disagree with things in the story and still do the thing

[cunning fossil]

Why is everything that isn't Straight White Able Man adjacent an agenda??? Seriously WHEN did this become a thing?

It's NOT

[upper pasture]

also i'm not out here telling deaf people they should have characters that they can relate to in game because i want another white cis male character

[rain cave]

when did I claim that

lmao

[cunning fossil]

"Since nobody likes to hear an agenda..."

You LITERALLY say the word

[rain cave]

that is a statement

correct

was it being applied to WoW or the topic at hand? No.

[cunning fossil]

so are you not saying that inclusion is an agenda?

YES it was???

[rain cave]

I'm saying nobody likes an angenda

but inclusion is NOT an agenda

that is also something I said

[upper pasture]

i feel like you're taking a side of an argument that you don't fully understand

[rain cave]

people shouldn't be saying a deaf person is an agenda

because it genuinely isn't

[cunning fossil]

Then why even imply that it was if it isn't?

[rain cave]

a character trait isn't an agenda

I didn't

you're just misreading it

I pretty explicitly said, people don't like agendas that's not the issue here, since deaf people and inclusion are NOT an agenda

as they are just character traits

Agenda : "the underlying intentions or motives of a particular person or group."

being deaf isn't an intention

[upper pasture]

games are literally built to tell stories. if its something these people don't agree with all of a sudden its an "agenda" and it shouldn't be in the game. ultimately it's up to the devs on what story they are setting out to tell

[cunning fossil]

Then what are the underlying intentions or motives of anyone promoting diversity?

Ehat's the "Agenda" hete

[rain cave]

I never said there was an agenda

bruh

that is my point

[cunning fossil]

But then WHY present it as a legitimate argument against inclusion?

[rain cave]

stories don't need agendas to be good

[rain cave]

who is?

[cunning fossil]

You're implying that there is an agenda in diversity and inclusion

[rain cave]

that's literally the opposite

of what I am saying

like I am explicitly saying the opposite of that

[upper pasture]

my point is what is a story to you or a good story in fact might be misunderstood as an agenda by someone else who disagrees with the story in someway

[rain cave]

the issue is when people are literally preached to

[cunning fossil]

Who is preaching??

[upper pasture]

a story could be about how the earth is round but somewhere out there a flat earther is getting mad that you're pushing your agenda on the masses

[rain cave]

nobody

[cunning fossil]

THEN WHY BRING IT UP

[rain cave]

because we're discussing the topic of agendas and community perception?

[cunning fossil]

Again, that's a made up thing. If nobody is doing it, then why is anyone taking the argument seriously

[rain cave]

what?

what's a made up thing

who's doing what

I'm genuinely confused as to how you're reading this convo

[cunning fossil]

If there are no people preaching about diversity and inclusion and "shoving it down people's throats", why should we even bother listening to the arguments that there are any present

[rain cave]

all I've said is:

People complaining about deaf people in WoW are dumb, we have blindness and just including a deaf person is not an agenda
People don't like to be preached at with an agenda, which this isn't

[cunning fossil]

The people who think adding people who aren't exactly like them is an agenda are honestly what is wrong with the community.

If there's any agenda, it's theirs honestly

[rain cave]

I do think demeaning it down to "aren't like them" is a bit weird though tbf

[cunning fossil]

To say that the game doesn't need diversity and inclusion to stay even somewhat relevant in the modern day is just plain stupid IMO.

Bot saying you are btw. Just in general

[rain cave]

because the number of people who come to this game for things "just like them" is pretty low

are you an orc? troll? elf?

are you purple?

do you have magic?

etc

[upper pasture]

sigh im out

[cunning fossil]

Not literally Saint.

[rain cave]

like deafness is just a trait, usually a negative one as it's a disability

so just like other traits it can be used to build a character

but yeah people complaining about a deaf character are being dumb

obviously

but I think you're hitting back for the wrong reasons

it's not about race, sexuality or whatever

[cunning fossil]

???

[rain cave]

some people are just freaking out over nothing

[upper pasture]

welcome to the point

[rain cave]

which is what the internet has conditioned people to do

lmao

even then, the people complaining are probably a 50/50 split on trolls and people who just a headline and didn't do anything else

[glad niche]

They would be freaking out over nothing if it was race, sexuality, or whatever. Too tho. Haters gonna hate. And a huge chunk of the vocal people seemingly play a game they simply love to hate

[rain cave]

and are a much smaller portion than you'd think

people are more likely to be negative