IT'S JUST A BIG OL' PONSIE SCEME
#classic-wow
oblique folio
hexed finch
i dont think ppl ever said they were NOT making classic
ever since the dev watercooler post
a few months back
oblique folio
You certainly weren't here a few weeks back when people were still saying they weren't actually making Classic cuz they're a bunch of pessimistic fucks.
hexed finch
i was,but i probably just scrolled past all the convos
thorn canopy
Yeah, people have been annoyingly pessimistic about Classic for a bit, I've known one or two people who unironically, because the dev watercooler mentioned technical support, believed that implied Blizzard was going to add LFD/Transmog
hexed finch
LUL
cobalt rampart
So, whoever I was fencing back and forth with last month: I was wrong. I'll admit it.
thorn canopy
Whatever you were wrong about, I always appreciate when people can owe up to it :)
cobalt rampart
I was convinced that classic would go the way of HL3
thorn canopy
At least now you can join the hype express?
cobalt rampart
eh, im still on the fence, im of the mind set that people only remember the fun parts of it and not the negative parts
dat 30-40 drought
thorn canopy
I think it's a mixed bag, I played vanilla recently, and while there are clunky things I dislike, I also dislike a lot of things on retail
I think both games have their good and bad merits, it's just for me vanilla outweighs retail, but it all depends on what you enjoy
(Can't disagree about 30-40 though)
cobalt rampart
^
hexed finch
you can only go throug that pain once,unless you're heavily masochistic and your fetish is rosetinted goggles
cobalt rampart
i might hop on and tool around abit if it's free with your normal sub, but i dont forsee spending any extra money on it
oblique folio
I greatly disliked vanilla. But I'll still be leveling up to around level 30 and just staying in Ashenvale. Walking around it once or twice a week
then logging off.
hexed finch
okay...
thorn canopy
I'll probably play a bit of retail still, due to the friends I have there, but my main focus will on classic
grizzled juniper
I dont think I will touch it
I'm too used to the new stuff that going back to old is meh for me
bright root
I'll definetly touch it.. Expecialy L29 and 39 for STV terror squad
solemn brook
I'll check it out if it's not a separate sub fee
thorn canopy
Makes more sense for it to be the same subscription, you'll have people who prefer retail at least giving classic a go, and vice versa
rigid lotus
If they do have a separate sub, I doubt it would be the same price.
But I also doubt there'd be a separate one.
They more than likely want to pull in the classic crowd not just to classic, but also to retail. And now they can play retail for free up to bfa.
wet hazel
The classic demo will playable temporarily or we will keep it even after the Blizzcon, and if we will have the beta automatically?
oblique folio
Until november 8
Its one zone though.
people literally bought a 40 usd mount last year.
and have bought tickets for the pets. which are 40 usd each
grizzled juniper
Probs elwynn and Westfall
And----
Just durotar
Because if we say barrens...
cerulean briar
i'm estimating barrens and westfall
cerulean briar
They said talent points will be working
oblique folio
I imagine it's just Elwynn and Durotar
idle kite
People that buy the ticket just for mounts or ingame goodies are weird... you buy it for the panels and info on whats next for all blizzard products, you get cheeper mounts on the store.
Its silly to say 40$ just for mounts, cuz when you actually look at the content that is awailable... wow... past blizzcons when it was 30$ was more expensive cuz you had alot less content given.
Still... first ever demo available for virtual ticket holders... its a huge step in blizzcon history.
wet hazel
If we buy the demo , we will have the beta automatically when it will came out ?
hexed finch
you buy the ticket for the demo
it is unlikely that also gives you access to the finished gamew
topaz pond
Just demo
Some famous guy gonna stream it anyway so we'll see if classic is really what are waiting for or not
oblique folio
but at the same time, wouldn't you only be able to judge a game by experiencing it yourself and not listen/watch someone else's experience?
grizzled juniper
You are forgetting about the biased opinions
Someone that is blind by nostalgia will say it's better than Retail, even if it had problems
open birch
🇧 ias
idle kite
Retail has problems... vanilla had problems... that doesnt mean we cant judge them as 2 games with pros and cons like any other games. Vanilla was better in some instances, retail is better in others. And preference has a say in it too... not "blind nostalgia".
hexed finch
you cannot compare the 2 games(for the most part)
because 14 years of ""evolution"" have passed
and it's not even the same game
idle kite
I did not say compare... i said judge... as it review a game
You can review war 3 and starcraft 2... a big gap of time... made by the same team... both are stellar games
Both have pros and cons
Same with classic and retail
hexed finch
warcraft 3 and starcraft 2 is maybe the worst example for that
idle kite
Both can be a succes
idle kite
Sure
hexed finch
or warcraft 1 and 3
idle kite
Yup... both were and are great games
Some still enjoy that gameplay
Even if it is really premitive
War1
Anyway... the point i wanted to make is, people have dif tastes and it does not for the most part have anything to do with nostalgia
In liking something old
hexed finch
regardless of taste,if you've played old games(that may or may not be wow) like for example some ps1 games
and loved them
you might come back years later
remembering how you loved that
and find it to have aged very poorly
oblique folio
that happened to me with Sonic Adventures on the dreamcast. but then everyone memed the fuck out of it
hexed finch
Sonic Adventure 2 is pretty good to this day,if you forget the chao raising thing exists
grizzled juniper
SA1 and 2 were superior in Dreamcast
idle kite
how do you know if aged poorly... a good game is a good game. did chess or tetris or pacman age poorly
?
oo well... i still have a pentium 2 laptop especially for old dos games and enjoy it... and have gaming consoles that play games of almost all old and current consoles. i enjoy the new god of war ps4 as much as the old metal gear solid on ps1 cuz they are good games
sure, some games might be considered "unplayable" by some people... others like them as they were with no problem what so ever.
oblique folio
When we say "Aged Poorly"
We mean it's heavily dated
the voice acting quality is garbage
the graphics become garbage
etc
Take KOTOR for example. It aged like milk.
Regardless of this, it's still a good game.
But the graphics, dialogue, gameplay and even story a bit has aged very poorly.
It's not up to snuff or as timeless as other forms of media.
Of course this is mostly subjective, but it's still a thing that people can collectively agree upon and it turns into just a fact.
grizzled juniper
There are games that aged well, via graphics that seem still of this gen or mechanics
civic steppe
Aged poorly
Wants vanilla
tidal island
they're preparing the classic client already
looks like version will be 1.13.0.27898
obviously in testing/very early on still but still funny to see 1.13
solemn brook
Pretty sure they said "as long as there is a WoW, there will be a WoW Classic"
Doesn't say anything about business model but it's not going to be something crazy
I would guess it's a one time purchase and you pay the same sub as retail
normal rapids
yo when is bliz con i wanna see things about classic
just askin cause i don't play the game anymore and im hyped about blizcon and hearing about new releases about vanilla
idle kite
Yup... 2 and 3 nov
Buy the virtual ticket to get the demo and see the panel.... or wait 2 days for the panel to be free on youtube and the demo to be covered by every wow youtuber in existance
This month cant go by faster... cant wait
Hope i dont work that weekend... would really suck
solemn brook
I'll probably get the ticket for the other games' items
and then to watch the stuff
despite what I tried to convince myself I still like watching it live and recordings aren't the same
I think when it's a recording, I feel like "oh I can watch this later" then never watch it, even though it is a unique look at what's what that isn't seen elsewhere
and sure what the heck I'll play the demo
I don't think I need to, and I don't think I'll learn much about how Classic will be from it, but w/e
unreal nebula
I bought the ticket just for the demo, ngl
cerulean briar
Same lmao
civic elbow
Those of you not going to Blizzcon you’ll get a chance to stream it which is pretty cool.
cerulean briar
Can't wait to see that
hexed finch
classic wow leaks
1)Demo is very Size-restricted
2) Westfall
3) One race
4) if you can't run BFA on your potato PC,you can run classic
5) Classic will have OLD models as default,with HD models OPTIONAL
you're welcome
solemn brook
would be more worth it if they gave us actual alpha access
quiet pine
No hd models
hexed finch
you wont see ANY hd models AT ALL,unless you WILLINGLY opt in to them
idle kite
Leak? What leak?
It would be on every site and on every wow youtubers videos
Thats just made up
They already said the demo will have both factions available
oblique folio
It is known that theres one for each side as well
cerulean briar
1 side on westfall only? lol no
trail sierra
I hope they announce they are developing classic for mobile at Blizzcon
bright root
Wut 😂
trail sierra
I've been playing a lot of Runescape on my phone and wishing it was Warcraft
meager gorge
I wish I knew what class I wanted to play on classic. Main a paladin, but not sure I want to healbot or go through that leveling process
Was thinking maybe warrior or mage. Warrior because it was said to be the toughest to level but fun at cap, mage because of the convenience spells
merry flare
mage cause people pay you for portals 
bright root
And u never run out of water :D
grizzled juniper
Healing pally or nothing
solemn brook
y'see, my plan was indeed to play alliance.
grizzled juniper
I may play
oblique folio
as I remmeber, mages had mana problems. Though I think at like level 40 they could go down to Silithus
and farm mobs infinitely
while taking no damage
They had a thing called like Elemental ward or something like that
absorbs elemental damage
and all the elementals did just that.
grizzled juniper
hax
solemn brook
still, I want atiesh, and I have to play mage, priest, druid, or warlock to get it.
grizzled juniper
erm...
oblique folio
I'd certainly say play priest then.
grizzled juniper
Was atiesh in vanilla?
grizzled juniper
that atunnement
solemn brook
naxx40 gone
oblique folio
I think I'll do Nelf warrior.
oblique folio
Just in case I ever wanted to legitiamtely go get AShbringer.
solemn brook
which healing priest spec was good in vanilla, or was it a combination?
oblique folio
demo warlocks didn't have that glyph back then Mak
grizzled juniper
no?
oblique folio
It was only Holy
grizzled juniper
fuckles
solemn brook
ah ok
oblique folio
disc priests were a meme until cata
grizzled juniper
Arms warrior like that one dude
solemn brook
glyphs didn't exist in vanilla pretty sure
I specifically remember that inscription was added in Wrath of the Lich King
grizzled juniper
What were the ubers?
oblique folio
and that's it
Resto druid, Holy Paly (unless you're the buff bitch), prot warr, MM hunter, mage spamming frostbolt, warlock spamming shadowbolt.
holy priest
and mind you
they spammed a very specific rank of frostbolt and shadow bolt
grizzled juniper
rank 3?
oblique folio
think it was rank 4 or 5
you couldn't use the higher ranks cuz it ate to much mana
grizzled juniper
I suppose to mantain a balance of mana and damage
oblique folio
and combat mana regen was a joke back the
then*
Yup
Combat mana regen was nearly non-existent
grizzled juniper
were rogues a thing for pve or just pvp?
grizzled juniper
Combat...I once touched it in mop for leveling
but until now that is called Outlaw
Besides the gun, what were the differences?
oblique folio
Almost nothing honestly
Roll the Bones and the gun shots were the only big changes.
Everything else was a name change
it mostly plays the same as back then.
OH WAIT
grizzled juniper
So less RNG bitch?
oblique folio
you couldn't do your full DPS
Thats right Im remembering now
you could not
at all
do your full DPS as a rogue
You would pull threat from the tanks
grizzled juniper
Was that op back then?
grizzled juniper
I got told about dps having to stop dpsing because threat
oblique folio
You had to stop playing or just auto attack during the boss fight just to make sure people have it
grizzled juniper
I suppose burst wasn't a thing back then
oblique folio
horde only, buff totem and heroism
that's all you existed for
Oh and tremor totem
solemn brook
did healers generate a lot of threat?
oblique folio
Yes but not as much as dps
solemn brook
that's interesting.
grizzled juniper
Arms warrior?
grizzled juniper
fury?
grizzled juniper
Oh I saw that video
oblique folio
yea they got hired by blizz cuz they m anaged to unmeme a spec
maiden river
oblique folio
Im not clicking open on tha tmessage
maiden river
oblique folio
who and what. Im assuming goong
grizzled juniper
Basically he talking bout how balanced was Vanilla
oblique folio
oh my god
grizzled juniper
As in
oblique folio
still with this?
grizzled juniper
Make one spec more important than other
solemn brook
it was balanced across whole game, not within a single system, that post argues
maiden river
^^^^
solemn brook
my opinion is that the system called "endgame content" should be a focus of balancing, not only the rest of the game.
oblique folio
How is forced gameplay balanced though?
like in a whole.
and Akr, vanilla was unique ot say
BC
or Wrath
cuz the entire leveling process was the game
maiden river
not every class is good at everything, that was the thing with vanilla.
oblique folio
You didn't have daily quest hubs
grizzled juniper
You can't do that anymore tho
oblique folio
you didn't have continuous gameplay
you just had hte leveling experience and then gear grind
maiden river
every class has strengths and weaknessses.
oblique folio
You didn't even have that many raids open to you at launch
maiden river
Levelling 1-60 as a warrior was the most hellish torture imaginable, especially if you don't have a pocket healer.
grizzled juniper
Thing with the balanced game in vanilla, was because the whole game was recent
So all the game was, per say, relevant
maiden river
But, at level 60, warriors were by far the best tanks in raids, period.
oblique folio
now what's not balanced is forcing a priest
maiden river
That's how warriors were balanced, for example.
oblique folio
to group up
grizzled juniper
Nowadays leveling is just irrelevant
oblique folio
cuz theyre a priest
oblique folio
but a hunter or rogue or warrior or any other class that didn't wear cloth
oblique folio
can stay solo
maiden river
that's true, Blizz's philosophy changed.
grizzled juniper
Its not that Goongan
The time they tried that was in Cata, when they tried to revamp the whole game
They got a hell of backlash
oblique folio
cata gave the community what they wanted
a changed world that respponded to the end of the world
and people despised it
we're a bunch of cynical fucks who can never be pleased.
maiden river
The problem with cata was that it ruined the timeline.
grizzled juniper
What des says is true
We can't be never be pleased, that's is the issue
If Blizzard was to remake it again...Well
maiden river
When you level a new character now, you go cata, tbc, wotlk, cata....
doesn't make sense.
solemn brook
I'd like it if they made tbc and wrath optional, that way it's cata, cata|mop, wod, legion, bfa
maiden river
yeah, but it made no sense to start at cata, then go back in time, then go back to cata.
grizzled juniper
Even Northrend doesn't reflect the events of Endtime
...
No not endtime
Dragon Soul
solemn brook
dragon soul
maiden river
true.
but back on topic, this is #classic-wow
In vanilla, classes each had things they were bad at, and things they were good at.
grizzled juniper
Imo it feels "balanced" because all content is relevant
maiden river
It's not like now where every class is viable at everything.
grizzled juniper
Well, that's up to debate
But it depends on tuning, I'd have to check every class if they were tuned perfectly
maiden river
as a Hunter, levelling to 1-60 is arguably the easiest, and you're great at world pvp.
oblique folio
watching mak have this convo is oddly entertaining
maiden river
But in raids, you can only dps, and your dps won't be as good as a mage or rogue.
oblique folio
back then you either did fuck all or just did what another spec did worse.
maiden river
That's how hunters were balanced.
maiden river
the interesting thing with priests was that the holy/disc tree also had a few talents that help your dps.
And your damage was Holy.
solemn brook
oh yea wasn't there some weird thing surrounding holy
maiden river
And ret Paladins had 1: an aura that increases holy damage dealt by everyone in your party, and 2: a debuff that increases holy damage taken by the enemy target
solemn brook
lemme try and think. was it that there was no "holy resistance"? or am I thinking of something else.
maiden river
so a holy/disc dps priest was actually decent if you had a ret paladin in your party.
yes, there was no holy resistance.
but there was fire resist, frost resist, nature resist, etc.
tiny nymph
Only way to get Holy Resistance was to find something with "+ <#> all resistances"
which didn't give much at that
solemn brook
I thought that specifically didn't work
ah, so not much
grizzled juniper
What about that meme of no fire resistance gear = no mc
maiden river
I'm not even sure about that, HR didn't exist for players I think.
Yeah that's quite exxagerated, actually.
tiny nymph
Holy Resistance wasn't a thing at all as a secluded stat available to players
maiden river
^^^^^^^
tiny nymph
Either something gave bonus to all, to include it, or you'd have none at all
oblique folio
Or you farmed greens
for holy resist
cuz that's fun gameplay
and don't forget
because that gear gave larger resist
you ended up replacing your hard earned purples
with shitty greens
=^]
solemn brook
was there even a raid boss that did holy damage?
maiden river
You didn't.
oblique folio
zelik
maiden river
holy resist didn't exist.
oblique folio
or however his name is spelty
grizzled juniper
who dat
maiden river
yeah, zelik.
tiny nymph
Zeliek, Des?
solemn brook
oh that weirdo
grizzled juniper
the 8 tank fight?
oblique folio
yup
maiden river
yeah, that was the cool thing with it.
grizzled juniper
What about that "dance" in Nax?
maiden river
nowadays, you only need 2 tanks for raids.
grizzled juniper
Depends
maiden river
Also, you used to need OFF-TANKS
grizzled juniper
Some mythic stuff in Legion needed 3 tanks iirc
grizzled juniper
warlock tanks
maiden river
MT do most of the tanking, OT fill in if MT dies.
I believe OT stopped existing in MOP iirc.
solemn brook
erm
solemn brook
we don't need more than 2 tanks per raid, but some fights definitely still have main or off tank
tiny nymph
if I'm not wrong.. any tank that's not actively tanking the boss is the off-tank, it's just that the tanks now need to swap who holds the boss
to increase engagement in raids
solemn brook
for example, Taloc, pretty much one tank doing it, other tank pops bloods
(role could also be filled by someone else who can soak damage, like a druid in bear form)
tiny nymph
(not specifically for that purpose alone but in general, compared to pre-Cata or w/e where MT kept tanking until they died)
oblique folio
We don't need akr
but
there are some fights
even in this day and age, not so far in BFA but certainly in legion, that benefited from three
Progression Kil'jaeden for example on mythic.
solemn brook
I think my guild did a three tank strat for one of the uldir bosses just to try it out, don't remember
dunno which it would have been though
bright root
Back in days, only holy ressist was this potion.. But that isnt resistance as usual meaning..
https://classicdb.ch/?item=6051#created-by
Also unpresence holy resist create pvp shockadins
oblique folio
I think you mean absence.
grand citrus
Is that still how people define offtank? I always used it to refer to the not currently active tank
back before MoP to refer to the backup, and afterwards to refer to the tank that didn't primarily hold
bright root
I was thinking making shamy offtank
In real meaning.. Just few mobs when clearing trash...and 5mans with frands who understand lack off tanking ability, but its possible..
hexed finch
@bright root you mean exactly what enhancement shaman was designed to be in vanilla alpha but they couldnt get it to work,so they put it as a dps spec?
bright root
I was inspired by this guy..
maiden river
What patch will classic be? I've heard 1.10,1.12,1.9 like I don't know mate
bright root
They already said 1.12
tidal island
based on 1.12, but actual first build seems to be 1.13
grizzled juniper
Or just a 1.0 build with 1.12 data
I dont think calling it 1.13 is logic considering that it's quite a new thing
tidal island
that's what they call it so
it won't be a 1.0 build
don't think they'll do that versioning wise
creating possible conflicts between old version numbers and new classic versions could get a bit confusing for devs, even internally
which is what i think the reason is that they are going with 1.13 for now
oblique folio
while the patches number is 13, as to not conflict with the actual 1.12, it'd still be 1.12's content no?
tidal island
Yeah based upon is what they said I think
So not necessarily exactly the same
It could just be 1.13 for modern filesystem support and battle.net integration for all I know
spark lodge
will it be vanilla content but current interface?
oblique folio
As far as they've eluded to: No.
maiden river
What's gonna be a real kick in the teeth as a caster is not being able to see DoT timers without the aid of addons
trail sierra
Omen is pretty essential to Classic I can't imagine it not being in game
bright root
I belive, we got whole palete of addons.. New version of old addons and new ones ofc
grizzled juniper
when even vanilla lags on your pc
unreal nebula
What I want to see from Classic is 1.12 class balance and item balance, but with progressive content drops. We don’t want Naxx out day 1. It makes the server first race practically a race to 60.
oblique folio
but the fun of vanilla was lack of class and item balance
earning that epic only to repalce it with a green that took three times as long to farm cuz you needed the resistence to survive onyxia's fire damage
bright root
Yeeeeeeah, fkin resist gear and zero dps with that 👌
wintry flare
I hope they leave the class balance for at least 6 months so that people that level warriors can get that awesome street cred.
cerulean briar
I'd imagine 1.12 but releasing raids over time
unreal nebula
Des, poor class/item balance still exists in 1.12, and they’ve already said they’re using a 1.12 framework. But ideally we won’t have all the content 1.12 had from the get go.
unreal nebula
Also you didn’t need fire res gear for Ony, but it did make the fight less healing intense
oblique folio
though they are unsure of how things would be handled for the world events
and are generally sure they're not doing another opening of the gates
unreal nebula
You can get by just fine with fire res totems/aura
Not doing opening of AQ would be a massive mistake
oblique folio
and the point of the joke was to keep riffing on how terrible vanilla was and how it has the same issues that players complain about today
Whether it is or not is academic at this point.I personally don't care if they do or not.
unreal nebula
I think they should only for the fact that it was a big part of Vanilla.
And if you don’t do opening of AQ then you never get to do the Brood of Nozdormu Rep
And there are no Scarab Lords
Which is just lame
unreal nebula
You get to I guess yeah
But you don’t have to for anything
Afaik
You only used it for the Scarab Lord questline
oblique folio
the signet rings
there's questlines for the various types on getting thema nd they require rep
unreal nebula
Ah
unreal nebula
The farthest I’ve gone into Vanilla was BWL and then opening of AQ, didn’t actually raid AQ though
oblique folio
but yea. Considering how desctructive the original Opening of the gates was
I doubt they'd want to do it again
unreal nebula
I mean I understand why, but I still think they should.
oblique folio
I'd agree only to force other players to not play the game
grizzled juniper
I thought the necklace from Onyxia was enough resistance
oblique folio
You ahve to kill Onyxia first
grizzled juniper
The one to enter her raid?
unreal nebula
15 fire res helps
That paired with a shaman/Paladin with the correct res aura/totem helps
And you only really need the fire res for phase 2
imo
oblique folio
Y'all are putting to much thought into a joke I made up off the top of my head.
unreal nebula
I mean I think it just sparked discussion is all
bright root
Still wanna see elemental / scourge invasions
unreal nebula
Know what’s even worse than needing fire res for Ony?
Needing Nature Res for Huhuran
You can still use nat res totems and auras
But you need to legit dedicate a gear spot or two to greens with flat nature res
Elemental and Scourge invasions would be hella
oblique folio
Wasnt the scourge invasion a BC thing?
Not a Vanilla thing
Cuz that was their prepatch into qrath
Wrath*
bright root
oblique folio
Oh the lead up to naxx. Thats right.
unreal nebula
Yeah they re did it for WOTLK. Was pretty cool.
bright root
It was first what uncle Google give me :D
bright root
Cant see differences ;L same info, just another source
Maybe better (comfy/coozy) visual, cuz its dark and not powered with fandom on mobile..
idle kite
This is like the ventrilo vs discord war.. lol
No real dif... but people hate one or the other
oblique folio
I mean tbh Wowwiki has the reputation of being far outdated in terms of lore when compared to Wowpedia.
bright root
In general maybe.. In this case, nope.. So, end it this offtopic :D..
Woooo, i can enjoy beta from home, when my roomie will be on blizzcon, on his pc :D same as streams :D
oblique folio
It is a demo
grizzled juniper
Is demo =/= beta
cerulean briar
^^^
grizzled juniper
ITS A QUESTION
cerulean briar
It goes Demo >>> Alpha >>> Beta
grizzled juniper
Hax
bright root
U know what i mean guys
oblique folio
Calling it a beta gives the wrong impression to other people who aren't clue'd in
bright root
And calling it demo, when we already played is also silly :D
wintry flare
My biggest fear is that it will be impossible to play the first month because of all the areas will have 100+ people
I hope we get enough servers lol
trim ocean
It is a Demo of a Re-release of Vanilla WoW...
trail sierra
too many people in the area stealing your mobs would be a huge step up from the server crash preventing sharding tech they might definitely implement
imagine seeing only 100 people and then some disapear just while your standing there and you never see any of them ever ever again after 5 minutes
tribal hemlock
Issue is is that they've implicated that it'll be "authentic Vanilla."
So no sharding either. They might just make a ton of servers for it.
wintry flare
I hope so
grizzled juniper
Tho idk if it's going to be shared with the payment of retail or if we have to buy it and sub
fair karma
I think they've said it'll be tied in but don't quote me on it.
grizzled juniper
quotes
fair karma
;P
oblique folio
[9:04 AM] Wolfaelan: I think they've said it'll be tied in but don't quote me on it.
This is irrefutable proof
grizzled juniper
Hax
fair karma
Dorks
oblique folio
ur a dork
fair karma
Uh, yeh?
cerulean briar
I think a sub for just classic wow would be cheaper than current
spark lodge
you mean it should be included in current wow sub*
cerulean briar
no
like seperate if you're only going to play classic and cheaper since its only classic
bright root
+2$ (€\£) for retail players.. As "bundle for retail players" and 5$ for just classic will be nice :)
cerulean briar
Yeah that makes sense
idle kite
They won't up the base sub ever... Would be weird after what 14-15 years to change to 17$
trim ocean
It may be considered a different game with a different subscription
bright root
@idle kite it doesn't mean BASIC sub increase.. I meant "if u have retail sub u can got classic sub for 2$ and if u havent, but want classic its 5-7$ stand alone sub".. That's my POV.. But who knows what mojty Blizzurd will do
cerulean briar
i'd imagine a lot of people would just wanna play classic and not current wow
cerulean briar
Therefore, cheaper sub for classic only
grizzled juniper
No
cerulean briar
I just think $20 or so for a classic + bfa sub would be kinda dumb for people who just wanna play classic
trim ocean
Classic alone might be an option, though not much cheaper than BfA alone
solemn brook
I think it should be same sub price for both
You pay to play WoW, not some specific expansion
cerulean briar
vanilla is pretty much a totally different game
and yeah i think it will be cheaper than BFA
solemn brook
I think it should share a recurring sub, and maybe have a reduced one-time cost compared to an expansion
the sub is and always has been agnostic to what content you're playing
don't see why they would change it
cerulean briar
maybe it will have a one time cost like blizzards other classic games
vernal kettle
Then you'll get people who bought it originally saying they should have it already. 🤷 Who knows what they're going to do.
cerulean briar
I don't think people are going to say that because the player base that left long ago would do anything to come back to vanilla.
grizzled juniper
I don't see what's the problem with tie it to the base sup with no cost
After all the base sub doesnt have BfA
cerulean briar
That could be plausible
wooden crow
My only issue with it is if they introduce "quality of life" changes to it.
oblique folio
They wont chung. It'll be just as grindy, not hard, as it was day 1.
Only thing, so far, thats been announced is bnet integration which is solely normal for their app and their bots to catch cheaters, botters, etc.
wooden crow
That's what I hope for. An authentic copy of it, just with certain technical updates so it can be on the launcher and such. I don't want anythin' else shoved in.
oblique folio
Nope
Not authentic if its updated
I want every game breaking bug there. So we can really relish in vanilla.
wooden crow
Yeees
bright root
still secretly wishing dragon isles and eye of azshara and emeral dream as it was in plans 😄
oblique folio
Thats not Vanilla tho
oblique folio
EoA was the dungeon and emerald dream was the emerald nightmare raid
bright root
I know i know :D But originally has vanilla more concepts to do before they scraped it..
oblique folio
yea cuz they couldn't fit it in or they didn't have the tech to do it.
like storywise fit it in.
bright root
Lot of stories was writen for place..
But yas.. #NOCHANGES plz
wooden crow
I'm gonna be happy Classic comes with the old lore, therefore original canon.
oblique folio
Except that it doesn't
Cuz all of it is already retconned
but hey. if you enjoy a game with no story
¯_(ツ)_/¯
wooden crow
Eh, doesn't matter. I liked it more than the streamlined and boring stuff that becomes awfully confusing when you think about it we got today.
oblique folio
It's not that confusing
but then again, I went and bought all the books and chronicles ot keep myself up to date.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
wooden crow
Apparently half of Chronicles isn't really canon anymore. Especially that cosmic chart they made.
grizzled juniper
Chronicles is canon
cerulean briar
Vanilla is piece of art
grizzled juniper
*As much as I hate some parts
oblique folio
Whatever information gave you that, is wrong.
Chronicles overwrites anything it conflicts with.
as it's the newest material to have come out
wooden crow
Mostly the whole Lightforged Undead thing, among others. Like the Light being the counter to Fel and that being stronger than Arcane rather than rivaling it.
cerulean briar
dranei warlocks when?
grizzled juniper
shakes head
cerulean briar
lmao
fair karma
No
grizzled juniper
From words
oblique folio
Light is purity and order.
fair karma
oblique folio
yea the actual ordering of that isn't entirely up to snuff. Shocker. An artists rendition isn't exact. :p
fair karma
shrug It's allegedly from Chronicles but I don't have my own copies yet.
fair karma
Looks cool though
oblique folio
It does. which is the initial aim
oblique folio
All of the current game’s tools that help ensure World of Warcraft is a welcoming and fair environment, such as right-click player reporting, will also be in the BlizzCon WoW Classic Demo. Cheats, bots, and other exploitive behavior will also not be allowed, and the modern engine no longer permits some behaviors that could be used to get out of bounds. Support for 32-bit clients has also been removed. One of our core values is “Play nice; play fair,” and we want to do everything we can to ensure a few bad apples don’t ruin the experience for others.
You’ll also find that post-launch accessibility options such as colorblind mode are in the demo—though as we were working on it, we realized some words and images used in the current Accessibility panel come from the modern game. So we replaced the modern icons with some classic icons, and removed the term “Heirloom” since it doesn’t appear anywhere else in WoW Classic. It’s important to us that in situations like this we blend the old and the new in such a way that it still looks and feels like the game you remember.```this is what was added to classic.
Just new stuff that is used for accessibility and anti-cheat stuff.
so @hexed finch Looks like your little leak was partly wrong
shame goong got banned. he'd love to see this.
hexed finch
i dont see how my leak was wrong,i saw "very size restricted", "1 zone per faction", "1 race per faction" "if you cant run bfa,you can run classic", "new models being optional in classic",
the last one may be the one you're referring to
but remember this is a demo,so they've got the bare minimum available to make it work
oblique folio
2) Westfall
3) One race
4) if you can't run BFA on your potato PC,you can run classic
5) Classic will have OLD models as default,with HD models OPTIONAL```that's your leak
that leak is partially incorrect.
It's not one race, there's no HD models as an option as shown here, but there is things like colorblind mode and the anti-cheat stuff.
Hence why partially incorrect.
hexed finch
it's still the demo,
they even said "we had to put old icons in because it's still in the works by the time blizzcon comes around"
oblique folio
No? They said they replaced new stuff with the old to keep the feel of vanilla
hexed finch
🤔
oblique folio
You’ll also find that post-launch accessibility options such as colorblind mode are in the demo—though as we were working on it, we realized some words and images used in the current Accessibility panel come from the modern game. So we replaced the modern icons with some classic icons, and removed the term “Heirloom” since it doesn’t appear anywhere else in WoW Classic.
Re-read
as they were going through, they realized some things were not fitting in. So they replaced it.
wild spear
Like icons in the colourblind mode are new icons
oblique folio
yea. and they replaced it with the old ones
cuz the new ones didn't exist in vanilla.
grizzled juniper
thats good
wild spear
Its sad how mad people are that they wont be able to exploit in classic...
bright root
Chuck Norris jokes 24/7 in barrens 😍
cerulean briar
BARRENS CHAT 😍
hexed finch
MANKRIK'S WIFE TROLLING
bright root
Or we can evolved chat with new meta.. Dad jokes 😂
hardy jasper
I sure hope the zones can be travelled between. Wouldn't be the Barrens without some epic attempts to battle for Crossroads.
bright root
"only PvP in demo will be duels"
cerulean briar
sad face
bright root
Still.. I have a LOT of question.. Where we will learn new spells? In westfall or cross arent all class or proffs trainers if my memory is correct
oblique folio
I imagine the spells are auto-learned for the duration of the demo.
Speciifically because its a demo
or they'll just spawn in the npcs there.
bright root
Yes, sure, they can anything.. But still.. Thats "fun server" things.. I know i know, we must close eyes little bit
wild spear
@oblique folio "but there is things like colorblind mode and the anti-cheat stuff." That was obvious from the start so i doubt it was leaked...
Sorry i just said now, had to go so...
cerulean briar
this might be a stupid question but what about people that are actually colorblind?
grizzled juniper
Ask that to the elitists
oblique folio
what do you mean Exploration?
AS in, why care about them or what's so wrong about adding it in for them?
cerulean briar
like colorblind wasen't in vanilla
but what about people who ARE colorblind? it seems like people don't want colorblind mode in vanilla
oblique folio
It's people just being elitist jerks
It's a feature not in vanilla being put into vanilla that doesn't at all impact the gameplay of vanilla
but because it wasn't in vanilla
it shouldn't be in
cerulean briar
idk why some people don't want colorblind mode in vanilla, some people can't see like us and they wanna see too
cerulean hull
I’m colorblind and i want as little changed in classic as possible from vanilla. If I don’t get a colorblind mode, I’d be fine with it, as I don’t even play current wow in the color blind setting because I find the normal setting to be fine. So to me, it isn’t a “change” that affects anyone, but I wouldn’t mind whether it’s in or out. Just my 2 cents as a color blind person.
wild spear
Well there is lots of different versions of colourblind
so if you are able to play just basic settings, there is many who cannot tell between X coloured aoe and Y coloured Aoe
as someone who raided with a colourblind, it was very annoying we had to pull then say "that one" before we could actulaly make an attempt
tidal island
hexed finch
now classic is getting datamined
u wot
There is a 'Classic' button in the Video Settings that sets all of the sliders to the levels that were equivalent to the options available in the 2004 version of the game
from that post ^
tribal hemlock
There'll probably be the up-to-date graphics then, in short.
But then the original everything visuals if you don't like that and want true-vanilla.
Which then proves my theory tbh: I had mentioned probably Classic will be a "remastered" vanilla, but with the option to switch it back to the original 2004 version.
tidal island
depends on what you mean with up-to-date graphics
oblique folio
Considering that it's "sliders" I imagine the depth of graphics we have today that we didn't have in 2004.
grizzled juniper
Ye
tidal island
probably a better viewing distance etc, but buildings etc won't automatically become higher res
tidal island
yeah detail doodads sure
grizzled juniper
But same models
tidal island
water maybe, not sure which shaders they'll use
i should check that when i get home
better be original water
grizzled juniper
Hopefully we can get numbers in our bars
And in the enemy's
But I think addons do that, right?
tidal island
they can sure
inner zealot
I don't care about visual updates etc, if they do them or not, I just want it to play and the experience to be the same. No LFG tools, difficult world/quests/instances/etc
oblique folio
but none of it was difficult back then
it only gave the guise of being difficult because you knew so little about it, where heavily undergeared, or simply underleveled.
inner zealot
Ah, but it had it's moments. Pull 3 mobs when Classic comes back.
You'll live if you play properly
oblique folio
I mean. that's like live is now? My MM has fun dancing around doing all she can to kite while killing 3-4 things
bright root
But totally u cant just jumping around as new drood (for example) and spam moonfire on everything around u and dont give a f*ck for dying / mana etc.. Or attu for everything :) cant wait for doing malet of ZF and though thing like that..
I like on vanilla u rly need invest your time and knowledge for playin and GOT smth good.. Not like retail RN, where everybody must feels as special snowflake and give everyone everything..for barely nothing
inner zealot
Leveling my allied races right now I can generally pull 3-5 mobs and aoe, then move to the next pack.
In Vanilla, if you pull 5 mobs solo you will die. If you pull 3, you're going to need some of your cooldowns in order to survive.
bright root
And some classes still cant survive :D
grizzled juniper
You can still die
oblique folio
and that's great for the current class you are playing Goat
but my hunter can't survive that.
Nor can me priest or warlock
and we're in full hierlooms
inner zealot
My hunter can just fine
My hunter and my warrior both, haven't played much priest or warlock though
oblique folio
because MM is fun
somber otter
not at low levels
unless you consider agonizing tedium to be fun, in which case, good on you
oblique folio
it's not though
UNless you think that Vanilla won't be agnoizing, tedious and slow.
somber otter
oh, it will be
and I don't consider it fun
it's a means to an end
it's a thing you have to suffer through in order to get to the good stuff
somber otter
less so
combat's more fast-paced now and stuff falls over quicker, generally speaking
also there's way, way more quests
oblique folio
Well yea.
that's what happens when you have more expansions
you have more quests.
However, the older zones have fewer quests than vanilla
as so many got neutered out.
oblique folio
Indeed. A lot of quests overall got neutered out with Cataclysm, and again with Legion.
With the removal of trainer quests, and each zone got condensed with cataclysms revamp.
somber otter
with the Cata revamp, they deleted SOME quests, but then added five new quests for every one they deleted
oblique folio
There ends up being less quests overall for just the old zones.
somber otter
in terms of leveling
you can't run out of quests anymore
that's a thing that used to happen
oblique folio
Yes you can?
If you finish a zone
you run out of quests
as you finished a zone
You just moveonto the next one
somber otter
difference is
in vanilla you could finish a zone and still be underleveled
that will NEVER happen post-Cata
oblique folio
adn that's what you want?
somber otter
god no
somber otter
I'm saying the Cata revamp was an improvement
thorn canopy
The questing flow is improved, but I hate what they visually did to most of the zones such as Darkshore, Thousand Needles
thorn canopy
Mhm, tbh I wish that they had just improved/added new quests rather than entirely overhaul the zones
oblique folio
I mean. It's a leak through from the Wailing Caverns
and the druids experimenting there.
it's world progression, what we demanded for during Wrath and BC D=
oblique folio
Oh the other chasm
somber otter
yeah, the virtually impassable one
oblique folio
the one that deathwing caused in his little cinematic
somber otter
incredibly frustrating for us leveling lowbies that can't fly yet 😠
thorn canopy
The sore spot for me is Auberdine
somber otter
yeah, the bit where you have to go find dead NPC's is heartbreaking
ofc nowadays Auberdine is the least of that area's worries
oblique folio
it's meant to be heartbreaking
somber otter
set yourself apart by keeping it light and happy and not putting depressing shit in it
oblique folio
So how is that pairing even relevant?
thorn canopy
I think I prefer most of the old starter zones too, like how Taurens started with proving themselves to their tribe through carrying out hunting rites, and assisting elderly tauren carrying water back...
as opposed to spawning in a war zone now
oblique folio
How is it not depressing that Teldrassil and Darkshore are being corrupted and tainted by everything?
somber otter
there's enough depressing shit in meatspace, I don't need depressing shit in my escapist fantasy too
oblique folio
that you have tow ork to fix your races own vain mistakes to gain immortality?
somber otter
Oh, I get it
you're the "I'm gonna disagree with everything you say" person
got it
noted
oblique folio
You state one thing
but there are other things that are the same prior to it
and you say that's OK
that's a bit of a double standard isn't it?
oblique folio
I do.
thorn canopy
I'd say Wrath is when you get the more...in your face blatant sad moments? Although before that, the one that sticks out is...Love Eternal?
oblique folio
I remember seeing Burning Crusade being depressing as shit. You're on the back peddle against Illidan and teh legion. You're seeing the world suffer.
thorn canopy
I think the quest is called, in Darkshore
oblique folio
Wrath was just depressing everywhere. Traitors to the scourge, murder, insanity, and the overwhelming sense that you are being watched by some omnipotent being.
somber otter
Eh, Outland was already fucked. That was a "too late to help" situation
It's screwed up what Gul'dan did, but nothing anybody did during the course of that entire expansion could compare to that
thorn canopy
Most of Hellfire is Gul'dans 'indirect' work, right?
oblique folio
Ye.
somber otter
I'm not super up on my lore
oblique folio
Yea, Fale.
oblique folio
All those portals everywhere tore Draenor apart.
somber otter
I've read it before, but I forgot most of it
I can't keep all that in my head in perpetuity
oblique folio
No probs. Apologies if it does get annoying. It's a habit of mine, a bad one at that.
somber otter
some of it's gonna fall out eventually
nah, it's edifying
if you told me what happens in 9.0, I'd be pretty pissed
but reminding me of stuff I read once and forgot about is fine
thorn canopy
Ner'zhul is a wasted character imo
I might have missed it, but the only reference I recall of him in Wrath was a line about how the Lich King used to be a shaman in HF questing
oblique folio
I wouldn't say that. Considering he was heavily noted in WC3, in the books and junk.
somber otter
He's wasted after the fact though
thorn canopy
Mh, I suppose I mean in WoW/Wrath generally
oblique folio
Ah well that was explained actually!
somber otter
consider the Frost DK artifact quest where he barely gets mentioned
oblique folio
Arthas overpowered him in the five years he sat on the Throne.
somber otter
it's all Arthas because Arthas is blonde and pretty, or whatever
oblique folio
When we fight arthas, it's all arthas. No ner'zhul is left.
thorn canopy
Ah, makes sense
somber otter
I vaguely recall reading something that implies that isn't true
oblique folio
all that we have to see him now are shreds of the once powerful shaman.
somber otter
it doesn't SAY that
thorn canopy
From an...outside-lore persceptive though? I'd have liked some reference to Ner'zhul, perhaps on the Horde side
somber otter
it basically says that Arthas has control, but that ner'zhul is still there
you'd think after the Lich King gets wrecked, Ner'zhul's ghost could pop out and say things
oblique folio
You might be refering to the arthas fragments.
in legion
In which, they aren't refering to Ner'zhul per-say.
somber otter
Not the fragments
grizzled juniper
Arthas and Ner'zhul fought over dominion since he got casked
grizzled juniper
With Arthas winning and assimilating Ner'Zhul
oblique folio
yea. All that's left is shreds. Fragments of the two people inhabiting the helm.
somber otter
I wonder if it's just "they were evil so screw 'em" syndrome
talking to Ner'zhul would be interesting, at least in theory
like, does he regret any of it
stuff like that
grizzled juniper
He doesnt exist anymore tho
somber otter
according to who?
grizzled juniper
To the fucking lore
oblique folio
I don't think he does.
I think he has very little regrets since his dealings with the Legion.
rigid basin
You got a source on Ner'zul/Lich King being gone? The Helm of Domination is intact as far as Ive seen.
spark lodge
i thought ner'zul's soul was fused with the lich king armor and is able to speak through frostmourne / icebringer and frostreaper, along with bolvar
according to wowpedia - Ner'zhul's spirit was bound to the Helm of Domination and trapped inside the Frozen Throne. His perception, mental powers, and magical abilities expanded tremendously. Thus the Lich King was born. As the Lich King, Ner'zhul would rule the Scourge alone until his merger with Arthas Menethil, who largely consumed his spirit to rule as the Lich King alone.[21][22][23][24] Vestiges or at least memories of Ner'zhul remained in the new Lich King, who once referred to himself as a former shaman.
oblique folio
Yup.
Ner'zhul was consumed by Arthas, as detailed in his book, when he rose up off the throne.
spark lodge
okay, so ner'zul was put into the armor, then arthas consumed most of him when he was fused with the armor, and then bolvar consumed most of arthas through the same process
oblique folio
No
He was never placed in the armor
he was placed in the Helmet.
Arthas was never conusmed
He died. He was killed. Remember, Arthas was fighting for control of the helm from Ner'zhul.
As arthas never was fused into the armor itself, he jus tput it on. Where-as Bolvar is under the same process. Arthas' soul was ripped into what we believe is Helheim, or some other part of the Shadowlands, as seen in Sylvanas' story where she recruits the val'kyr.
grizzled juniper
Ye
But check the control panels
Dey be better
I like these more than the classic ones
rigid lotus
You can launch the client thru the folder to explore the settings on your own. The launcher does not let you launch the client.
solemn brook
what does it matter
if the game was developed today with the same feature set as then, there would definitely be the better video options and accessibility options.
colorblind options do not hurt Vanilla
oblique folio
He was making a joke towards the guys who are saying the colorblind options have ruined hte game and shouldn't be in.
as they weren't in during vanilla.
Which yes those people exist they're on MMOchamp
#nochanges
solemn brook
what the heck
grizzled juniper
It would be better if they stop playing
bright root
Colorblind is ok, but new water, grass, shadows.. Boooo, i dont like it.. Also models will stay old, so in compare with "improved things" it looks more old then if they dont improve it
Yes, propably nothing gamebreaking, u have option for play with original graphic, but still..
grizzled juniper
Bla bla
spark lodge
just turn down your graphics, wipe tears away, then play
oblique folio
^
rigid lotus
I'm thrilled we're getting the new water render cause the original water always sucked.
long moss
I want the new models because I love them fuck y'all nostalgic neckbeards
cerulean briar
i'll play with OG graphics
trail sierra
I keep playing Warcraft on potatos. Slightly more evolved potatos then 14 years ago but still potatos. I'm just now reaching the point where I can see details that were meant to be features of interest in previous expansions but I never knew about because I couldnt see much beyond 30ft in front of me
I expect to be able to look from one end of a zone to the other end of a zone in this new Classic just because of current gen draw distances but for me that wasn't actually a part of Classic the world was a big mysterious fog
oblique folio
"but that's the classic experience"
"being blind as a bat and lag stepping through most of it"
ivory helm
when is the classic demo playable?
eager flower
when blizzcon starts
oblique folio
Which is November 2nd
green folio
You're not the audience they're catering towards Des
they're targeting people like Obsidian, if you want updates to vanilla like Aoe looting and increase draw back distance then play retail.
Classic is meant to be getting as close to the past experience as possible, so going back to everything old school is kinda the point
oblique folio
I see someone didn't catch onto my sarcasm
and mocking of the people who legitimately nbelieve that
grizzled juniper
Yeah, sadly they already set up their minds and are putting new gen technologies
oblique folio
None of that shit. So that people really experience vanilla for what it was.
void moss
people should just be glad they getting classic
pearl wagon
I wanna play classic but I dont have money for the blizzcon
oblique folio
Well time to wait then
pearl wagon
When will classic come out for everyone
oblique folio
when it comes out. no sooner or later.
pearl wagon
:/
oblique folio
there's no other date to give you. All that's being shown at blizzcon is a tech demo at best.
broken olive
Yep. Just a brief chance to poke Westfall and the Barrens on premade characters.
I do hope it will be up after the end of Blizzcon for a bit, my planning sucks so I'll be away from a PC for most of the weekend 😋
cerulean briar
as an option
cerulean briar
well yeah but high def shadows and water
green folio
How do we know about the graphics?
curious because I didn't think the demo came out yet
bright root
Some ppl have access be in classic (1.13) client.. So exist screenshots and lot of "leak/preview" videos about that
spark lodge
someone got into the game. there's a button that lets you revert to classic graphics i think
oblique folio
Other way around
WoWhead and some other places managed to launch the Classic Client and it's set to classic graphics but you can crank them to max to match todays graphics
though there are no HD models
so the character/creature models are in the shitty quality they were back then but you can make the world look nice.
broken olive
If you have the Classic Demo pre-installed you can go to the folder and manually start wow.exe, which gets you the login screen. From there you can access the settings. And you can login and see a set of disabled servers.
hollow junco
gasp
cerulean briar
Idk I like the old models
I actually prefer them over the WoD ones but maybe that’s just me
cerulean briar
Just my opinion
viscid narwhal
ɪ saw how a group of folks recreated a few zones in the Unreal 4 engine and that was amazing.
hard mountain
LUL
open birch
you mean we have the hyperfeisted childen in sw?
open birch
¯_(ツ)_/¯
maiden river
Aw
maiden river
lol yeah
ocean wave
ye
idle kite
Wow talk about nitpicking
oblique folio
It's not even really a nitpick
they removed Hierloom from the colorblind options
specifically because hierlooms didn't exist