native burrow
Or
#no-wow-discussion
dreamy helm
yar
spice thistle
Weakness disgust me
fallen nexus
hi
spring burrow
Howdy Thulm
fallen nexus
high
dreamy helm
hi
floral falcon
My work in progress 😌
main dirge
it's those guys from loading screen
wary gate
really?
fallen nexus
great work @floral falcon
floral falcon
Ty 😊
dreamy helm
main dirge
Hanzo
dreamy helm
hanzo?
main dirge
Hanzo
dreamy helm
ok
main dirge
ok
dreamy helm
idk what you mean
heady solstice
main dirge
I'm not mean
heady solstice
Hanzo
main dirge
cuh
dreamy helm
thats a cute dogo
heady solstice
Yuh
main dirge
duh
heady solstice
fallen nexus
ok]
heady solstice
i agree
main dirge
ok closing paranthesis
heady solstice
[ok
main dirge
opening paranthesis ok
heady solstice
(ok
spring heath
Twitter
spring heath
YoshiP would never
urban kite
i just read that as pirate speak and was really confused
proper escarp
hello
vital musk
yo
heady solstice
Yes
hardy forge
then u beaten gaym
heady solstice
hardy forge
now go read up on the lore xd
dreamy helm
its 9 am and I wanna sleep more but I slept like 11 hrs
dreamy helm
I know
main dirge
why did you delete your discord
dreamy helm
who?
main dirge
hardy forge
if you're depressed then that should be more reasons to get up
so you dont wallow in your depressions
checkmate
dreamy helm
flips chess board
deft vapor
flips checkers board
dreamy helm
dafire do you play chess?
hardy forge
i know how to play but i dont
dreamy helm
rip
main dirge
I can't believe he fell for such bait
dreamy helm
you meanie lol
hardy forge
im trying to multitask while attempting not to get beaten to death in MHW
so you can excuse my response,92
dreamy helm
lmao
main dirge
wot
lost plinth
a n g e r y
hardy forge
certainly looks like it
proud chasm
^
dreamy helm
big mad
urban kite
Isnt dustox a cleaning spray
main dirge
ox's dust
proud chasm
Man lol cute but I never liked Dustox 🤔
urban kite
proud chasm
Lolll ^^
hardy forge
noice
urban kite
just avoid the multiplayer for now since it barely works
hardy forge
wasnt it in the master chief collection?
urban kite
yes
main dirge
lost plinth
kfc chocobo comes up because of the old promotion to get a chocobo mount in XIV from like, buying from various places
pretty sure one was kfc
main dirge
empty swallow
main dirge
miss old tyler
heady solstice
main dirge
jesus
that activision article was right
also tyler doesn't even know how to flash W on Trist 
"challenger"
dreamy helm
pigeonD is a true celestial
heady solstice
deft vapor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ-19_ymgcw
here fellas
lost plinth
my favourite thing is
speedrunner link for Rivals of Aether
also I just got 5 commends as the offtank for susano roulette. okay
deft vapor
then you've no doubt seen
ronald mcdonald for rivals of aether
..... mentioning that reminds me i should watch alpharad again
lost plinth
deft vapor
oh dear
lost plinth
like it is my unironic humble opinion
that this character is the sickest thing to grace a fighting game
lost plinth
i just love how it's legitimately factoring in BotW speedrunning techniques
he has bullet time, and the paraglider has the shield surf cause of btbing
spring burrow
And he can ride the magnesis blocks he calls in
lost plinth
https://youtu.be/B7DmJq1hteQ?t=398 because alpharad is actually good at video games sometimes
timestamp
timber crag
UNDERTALE YES
lost plinth
i just love rivals workshop
Someone made a Jigglypuff, and she's the only character in the game able to grab ledge cause someone in this world doesn't like fun
main dirge
10k pc btw., goes to youtube link and crashes
dreamy helm
what
main dirge
xqc's pc crashed while watching yt
dreamy helm
lol
main dirge
he did bsod
spice thistle
linux
dreamy helm
yes
main dirge
haven't done much with my pc for 3.5 years except for updates and changing drives for memory, still works fine
spice thistle
that one system that overwrote the words master, slave, blacklist and whitelist
spice thistle
Yes
main dirge
dummy thicc => placeholder value
dreamy helm
placeholder thicc
fresh osprey
tbf, they/them/their is actually warranted
and i dont think the one for man hours is wrong either
that one literally has ties that only men used to be allowed to work
heady solstice
Yeah but some of them are just dumb
Its literally creating an issue where there is none
spring heath
We know
fresh osprey
whitelist and blacklist have no ties to anything
except for voting practices
but that has to do with weird british shit that used to exist
dreamy helm
lets just talk about sandwiches
fresh osprey
master/slave is also reasonable to replace
also i always considered "you guys" gender neutral
spring heath
Legacy sounds cooler than grandfathered
fresh osprey
i mean - grandfathered is pretty literal tbf
spring heath
I know
fresh osprey
it comes from the fact that stuff your grandfather had rights to do you can do too
spring heath
I'm just saying it sounds cooler
fresh osprey
is you guys not gender neutral?
heady solstice
I also use it as neutral
spring heath
the Californian origin has always been gender neutral anyway
'dudettes' is just ridiculous, I've never heard anyone say it unironically
fresh osprey
also sanity check and dummy list are ableist? since when?
i always thought a sanity check was tied to making sure a thing works so you dont go insane later trying to figure out why the fuck the thing wont work
and dummy like a mannequin - a fake person
heady solstice
I also find it a bit ridiculous that twitter a billion dollar company isn't doing any of the various things they could be doing and instead opting to make problems out of problems that barely exist
heady solstice
Exactly
neon hinge
yeah...
fresh osprey
they could like - actually change how they stop hate speech and stuff like that
neon hinge
Nobody really cares about computer wording
heady solstice
This tbh
wary gate
because, and I know I'm not allowed to say this word, but it's the whole thing about how the word "retarded" is problematic
spring heath
they do this when all we want is for them to kick off the nazis and supremacists
fresh osprey
i mean - im lazy and dont want to relearn things
i mean - retarded i get - its an actual term for an actual group of people
im fairly certain insane and dumb are not used in any medical context anymore
like lame
lame is pretty much only used for horses now
sure it USED to mean a thing
but it doesnt anymore
heady solstice
The meaning has evolved
fresh osprey
not just evolved
the old meaning has literally stopped being used outside of specific context
almost entirely in regards to horses
wary gate
punching nazis is an american tradition
timber crag
DC used to write comics about Wonder Woman punching Hitler in the face all the time
spring heath
Be like Steve Rogers
Fistfight bullies and shield bash nazis
dreamy helm
I just eat sandwiches
spring burrow
oh shit Halo 3 is on the MCC now
spring burrow
MCC is updating, then I'll get it too
spice thistle
Don't you have it already?
spring burrow
I gotta download it
spring burrow
Yeah I bought it already
deft vapor
forgive me father for i have sinned...
actually don't forgive me, JUDGE ME
sage moat
hmm im wondering if i should buy Gametime or if i should buy Jump King???!?!?!?
hardy forge
there's a vid on "should ff14 have official dps meters" and 70% of the comments are "please no,people will stop getting invited to group because they suck ass and cast Cure I spam" and the other 30% is "dps meters would be needed officially to see if people suck or not"
lost plinth
gonna get samurai to 80
sage moat
what game is that?
hardy forge
FF14
spice thistle
I thought you had SAM at 80
hardy forge
correction: FF14 and memes
sage moat
spring heath
Dyre, you know better
spring burrow
ok then
dreamy helm
the shadowrealm
hardy forge
latest interview i assume,or an old one
you can get banned for just using the dps meter
dreamy helm
yeah great game
hardy forge
i can understand shaming ppl's dps,since the game's philosophy is "no one can do anything wrong everyone's happy in their own bubble" kind of thing
but JUST silently using it
and you can get banned xd
dreamy helm
its a clause for streamers
hardy forge
im quite sure he said earlier "detectable or not"
spice thistle
Although...there is an ingame dps meter
spring heath
it says in the screenshot right there lol
dreamy helm
doesnt really work as well anymore
spice thistle
It does?
hardy forge
the aggro only really tells if you're doing more dps than the others,and the tank is always on top regardless
spice thistle
i mean if you are not a selfish class and are second in aggro that means you are doing a good job
hardy forge
it's an incredibly broad check of dps
and is not really indicative
of you doing good
everyone else could be garbage
dreamy helm
or everyone is doing garbage and you're just doing ok
torn acorn
excuse me , In order to start the leyendary cloak mission do I have to complete some quests before it?
spice thistle
Real talk though, you shouldn't be using a parser unless you are in a static and want to improve together
heady solstice
Look mak
dreamy helm
its like saying you can know both the momentum and position of an electron my dude lol
severe river
@torn acorn https://www.wowhead.com/guides/visions-of-nzoth-introduction-questline-horrific-visions-assaults
heady solstice
if I can't brag to myself then what's this all been about?
torn acorn
Thanks Kurls
dreamy helm
I parsed in all content in FFXIV
everything
because I needed to know how I was doing
so if they decide to just ban everyone who use/used ACT ever then that means they are banning the entire hardcore playerbase
lmao
spring heath
*suspend
spice thistle
because you can't be hardcore?
dreamy helm
correct
spring heath
Honestly I see how casuals can be shitty about it out of laziness but any dev who has efforts to crack down on toxicity has my respect
spice thistle
Well I have been using ACT when I am dummy parsing or in savages and so far nothing...
spring heath
because Blizz doesn't feel like they're doing much on that field, or hasn't for a while anyway
spice thistle
Heck in my FC we use it to check and help, which is different than go and being "haha you suck check your parses" which is probably what the devs doesn't want to happen
imo parses should be used only for self improvement and if you want to help others, not for shaming people
dreamy helm
its generally not lol
spice thistle
not what
spice thistle
Yet you have that group that do that, it's better to stop it from starting to happen rather than let it happen entirely
dreamy helm
So parsing should just be banned?
spice thistle
Either you are blatantly not seeing the point
neon hinge
parses generate toxicity, in a way
spice thistle
Or just lazy
Parses, sadly generate toxicity
Not generalizing but they do
Parsing per say is not banned
Parseshaming is a bannable offense though
dreamy helm
yes and thats where they should leave it lol
spice thistle
And using ACT doesn't make you get ban
banned
Unless you have a wide mouth and are telling everyone and their mother in Ul'dah that you have it
spring heath
'everyone and their mother in Ul'dah' lmao
spice thistle
Anyone that gets banned by doing so
dreamy helm
Ive seen a guy get banned for saying "jesus christ tank".
spring heath
XIV has a mod jail where they dump you if you've been naughty until they can get around to dealing with you and that concept amuses tf out of me
spice thistle
See Wolf
That is what is funny
That you can have a chance to appeal to mods
And what do people do sometimes?
Talk shit to them
lost plinth
slightly concerning that i was confused why this lalafell I followed out had suddenly gone missing
ofc it's cause you exit a house on the same spot, and the lalafell was hidden quite well under hat child's skirt
lost plinth
ikr
lost plinth
i was gonna say
lulw
Also
What the cinnamon toast fuck is nascent flash
How do I get to heal 40 fucking thousand by pressing chaotic cyclone once
spice thistle
what you talking aobut
lost plinth
also god bless susano trial roulette, never gets old
spring heath
You know which does get old?
Lakshmi
I think I got her every trial roulette for a week
neon hinge
I don't think permabans are a correct way to adress issues
Like jails, you don't permajail somebody anymore
lost plinth
and i am also a god of time
neon hinge
At least not on civilized countries
spring heath
key word there
spice thistle
Civilized?
spring heath
mmmhm
spice thistle
Well
spring heath
And some things in America are rather dubious in that department
neon hinge
Jails are to, you know, punish and resent and learn from mistakes
if you're going to sit there to rot you ain't learning shit, not even trying to
Why would you bother?
You're going to die there, so why bother
heady solstice
america
spice thistle
Soo are you saying that unforgiveable crimes should be a direct sent to hell?
lost plinth
and regarding handing out massive bans to entire swathes of the community
remember 6 months or so ago when wow suddenly decided to banwave titty modders?
neon hinge
Soo are you saying that unforgiveable crimes should be a direct sent to hell?
It's... complicated.
lost plinth
and caught thousands and everyone got pissed?
spice thistle
gigity
neon hinge
tmux stuff
dreamy helm
hold up
lost plinth
to the extent they had to unban everyone 3 hours later?
dreamy helm
theres titty mods?
lost plinth
yep
spice thistle
They mod people that got big tiddi mods
dreamy helm
I see
neon hinge
You can just mod anywthing you want to with tmux, it overwites the model or smth
lost plinth
they got thousands of people for a flat 6 month ban
neon hinge
It's bannable because of touching internal files
dreamy helm
dang
spice thistle
pervs
lost plinth
and there was an absolute riot
neon hinge
And Blizzard doesn't like when you touch it on the inside
lost plinth
they had to reverse all the bans 3 hours later
dreamy helm
inter lmao
spice thistle
They really dont like it
dreamy helm
blizz doesnt like it when you touch its insides
got it
guessing they really hate data mining?
spice thistle
Touching inner files of WoW is a secured perma ban if they detect it
spice thistle
FFXIV's nier
MARC
AUG 11
NIER RAID
ready to cry
What if we end deleting a data server kek
time to delete balmung
Tmw all my friends have cristarium gear
And im the only one from the static forced to use Neo Ish on head and foot
main dirge
what
main dirge
dr disrespect changed his twitch link to youtube link on twitter
lost plinth
hm
Well I honestly think with the nier raid
||I can't explain 2P, but what if the raid is a canon continuation to Ending D, if 9S accompanied Adam and Eve on the ark||
and it came to the First
and here we are
heady solstice
heady solstice
ayayagame
heady solstice
heady solstice
main dirge
heady solstice
main dirge
heady solstice
lost plinth
heady solstice
lost plinth
wary gate
y'all ok?
dreamy helm
no
lost plinth
more than okay
dreamy helm
im not okay
lost plinth
deft vapor
heady solstice
main dirge
westerners wanted to give pikachu big boobs
heady solstice
hot
main dirge
pokemon ceo said "Nah."
lost plinth
wha
main dirge
muu
urban kite
lost plinth
so uh this is ffxiv but
i fucking hate this more than words https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitpostXIV/comments/hplqpb/saw_this_on_twitter_gcbtw/
and i adore the comments section
main dirge
what's the se.3 and se.10
urban kite
sound effects
main dirge
o
lost plinth
special mention to 10 being the DM noise
urban kite
the nyaa at the end ruins it
lost plinth
it was already ruined
urban kite
haha yeah you're right haha
spring burrow
I have almost all the requirements met for mentorship except for commendations
dreamy helm
I never get commendationslol
neon hinge
I don't get it
neon hinge
What are mentors?
urban kite
they get a shiny little crown, meant to help people that are new to the game
but they don't
spring burrow
Nothing special
urban kite
they just shitpost in mentor chat while wearing their gold crown next to their name
spring burrow
Yeah its a useless system really
neon hinge
Hm
spring heath
If they wanna be like that they can go play WoW
main dirge
and I want to be cute maid in fight
neon hinge
Or they can go fuck themselves
urban kite
if i have to suffer cat sluts wearing their fucking THONGS, you can suffer a fat fucking roe clapping his cheeks with every sprint usage
main dirge
LOL
urban kite
"it breaks the theme of it being a final fantasy game" yeah so does running around with your YOKAI WATCH and your fukken 2B outfit while riding rathalos stfu ur ASS
hardy forge
@spring heath i just encountered THIS abomination on the internets
spring heath
FC1 Today at 6:22 PM
I won’t feel bad if this happens to be a catgirl I got on a dungeon while I had {Redacted} ass on complete display after getting the 2b coffer, I hope she’s offended by lizard men in thongs
FC2 Today at 6:25 PM
Oh so the cat girl in the maid outfit is going to preach to us
karen
urban kite
ok crotch goblin
dreamy helm
what is a crotch goblin
urban kite
goblin from your crotch
dreamy helm
it sounds like a fantasy adult toy...
urban kite
god i fucking wish
dreamy helm
lmfao
urban kite
there's a reason i main horde
dreamy helm
i see
spring heath
like I call mine Spawnlings
dreamy helm
I'd just call them expenses Kappa
spring burrow
Spawnlings lol
spring heath
Sometimes I also call them headaches
dreamy helm
it does though
main dirge
dreamy helm
shhh
heady solstice
lost plinth
holy fck the maddest of lads
a battle mentor drk able to do the pull of legend between second and third mt gulg with a random whm
dreamy helm
surprise
main dirge
getsuga tenshou
spring burrow
Weeb
lost plinth
what is our fc
main dirge
a red cross
lost plinth
what is happening is heresy
main dirge
PINTO
urban kite
visual pulsar
Y’know, when I think WoWHead discord server users, first person that comes to mind is mrpeach774
Just wanted to share this random thought I had at 2am
main dirge
idk what dragon dogma is
spice thistle
It's a very nice arpg
main dirge
not u but k
urban kite
almost too nice..
main dirge
dark arisen 
lost plinth
wow thanks lunar i see how it is
but considering peach is actually the most active user here by a mile
and even more so the most active user of somewhat direct contribution
aka. not my dumbass sitting here memeing all day
spring burrow
we just talk about ff14 now
main dirge
heady solstice
wary gate
I played guardian druid and it didn't feel terrible
didn't even have to login to wow to do it
fresh osprey
so essentially the perfect future MMO has several things it needs to do to compete with wow
spice thistle
it needs to be fun and has a nice story
fresh osprey
It needs to be in its own universe, it can be based on something else but at its core the main development of lore and locations has to occur within the game
swift oyster
It's also just hard to pull people away from something they've invested so heavily in.
fresh osprey
2nd, it needs to have a solid gameplay loop for leveling AND endgame
one of the major faults with FFXIV is the endgame loop once you beat the story
its rep grinds and they are worse than wow's
combined with dungeons and raids
spring heath
The rep is so not worse than WoW's
ARR's is meh
but the ones after that are fine
And
fresh osprey
one of the best things wow has done in recent memory is take the D3 adventure mode and stick it in WoW
spring heath
it's all optional/cosmetic, never forced
swift oyster
Rep? Like beast tribes?
fresh osprey
yeah
spring heath
yeah
swift oyster
yeah those are so easy
spring heath
NONE of the beast tribes are a necessity
fresh osprey
theyre not hard
theyre just boring
the gameplay of the beast tribe dailies is excessively repetitive and uninteresting
but avoiding that
swift oyster
the gameplay of the beast tribe dailies is excessively repetitive and uninteresting
@fresh osprey but mounts though
fresh osprey
because i do not want to tangent into FFXIV
spring heath
ngl I've barely touched the beast tribes
fresh osprey
the core endgame loop should offer multiple tasks
spring heath
I'll get around to it when I feel like it
fresh osprey
not just dungeons and raids
spice thistle
There is not much of endgame on FFXIV
fresh osprey
but some form of dailies that arent just "kill stuff"
spice thistle
Like
spice thistle
There should be something to compete besides dungeons and raid that doesn't become repetitive or boring
fresh osprey
but providing a space where killing things gives resources but you also can spend 2 hours a day doing story missions is really great
spice thistle
Too bad ShB doesn't have a deep dungeon yet
fresh osprey
combine this with a WQ style system and its even better
a new MMO would also need voice acting
new games tend to skimp on VA because its expensive
if you dont invest in your game this is one of the places it will often show
spice thistle
FFXIV VA after ARR is goodo
fresh osprey
the more you expect people to read, the less people will be interested in your story
old wow did a terrible job with this
swift oyster
I like WoW better overall, but I like FFXIV plenty
fresh osprey
Warlords forward you have a pretty good idea what the story is even if you dont read a single line of quest text
so having voice acting and having the story be voice acted is important
4th - avoid realistic graphics
realistic graphics age rapidly and are also a huge budget sink
spice thistle
looks to BDO
spice thistle
What about the combat style and class stuff, pech
fresh osprey
by sticking with more cartoony graphics, you allow your game to age graphically slower, and you provide a unique aesthetic that helps create the "fantasy" of the world and makes things like magic more believable
combat is difficult
no one has nailed an action combat system
its hard
and i think the problems lie in complexity
spice thistle
And netcode
fresh osprey
people want systems tied to your character's class to be complex
but action combat becomes less fun the more complex it is
i think modern action combat should look more like Borderlands 2/3 than BDO
a few buttons, but mainly passives
swift oyster
I liked NEverwinters combat
fresh osprey
everyone likes something from some other game
but there are always problems
wow has a bunch
i think looking at action games
Destiny 2, BL2/3, etc
thats the kind of combat that could work
but i think it should have a few abilities
like diablo
maybe a small ability bar
an ultimate tied to your spec
and then an indepth skill tree
swift oyster
action combat needs less abilities otherwise it gets button mashy
fresh osprey
yep
fresh osprey
yes, they think they do but they dont
fresh osprey
realistically, having 1-4 being slottable abilities based on your spec
a weapon ability
a right click ability
and an ultimate
swift oyster
to use the 1 to 0 keys in an mmo
@spice thistle I like controllers >>
fresh osprey
thats plenty
the DEPTH is what matters
and you dont have to have 20 abilities to have system depth
5th - race and classes
races SHOULD matter in an MMO
but they cant provide a gameplay bonus or you end up favoring certain races
swift oyster
races SHOULD matter in an MMO
@fresh osprey that gets complicated because there will always be a minmax advantage
fresh osprey
this is why a good MMO should have a world thats designed for variable maneuverability
swift oyster
therefore people feel pigeonholed and only given an illusion of choice
fresh osprey
and have the races FEEL different when doing PvE out in the world
imagine if Running Wild meant you could jump huge ravines
or being undead meant you could fall off huge cliffs and just put your body back together again
swift oyster
It's funny because these are concepts in MUDs, lol
fresh osprey
this avoids the "best race" for the raid thing
swift oyster
or actual gameplay
fresh osprey
but makes each race PLAY different
because you actually PLAY differently
classes matter too
in my system
swift oyster
Have you played a MUD before?
fresh osprey
where you have a weapon, an ult, a right click, and 4 buttons, the right click would be the class ability
swift oyster
You're describing MUDs lol
fresh osprey
whats that stand for?
swift oyster
minus.. abilities
They're the MMOs before MMOs.,
Multiuser dungeons
text MMOs, if you will
fresh osprey
D&D is what WoW and other MMOs are based on at their core
but the wrong elements became the focus
things like racial abilities became combat focused
swift oyster
D&D was based on wargames and Tolkien.
fresh osprey
when exploring and navigating the world should be an important aspect of the gameplay loop
its one of the reasons I agree with adding pathfinder
so - classes
a class should be a set of specializations, and a single ability
swift oyster
WoW borrowed heavily from EQ and EQ had a lot of elements from UO.
Retail WoW is completely different, more-so when WoW came out.
fresh osprey
that single ability is what you start with and you only have that and your weapon ability for the first 15-20 min of gameplay while you learn the basics
swift oyster
WoW was called an EQ clone for a bit from hardcores.
fresh osprey
after that, you pick a spec, which gives you your Ult
and then you have talent points
the talent points would let you unlock, over time, 4 core abilities (maybe at specific levels, IE 5, 15, 25, 40) - these would be actives
spice thistle
So work on a certain skills and make them op?
fresh osprey
and then the rest of the levels would award passive skill points
spice thistle
i like it
fresh osprey
which allow you to modify your actives
this is a mix of the D3 rune system, and TL2's skill tree system
swift oyster
that's Project Gorgon, btw
most oldschool MMOs worked like that
Look at Meridian 59
or.. even Asheron's Call
fresh osprey
you provide say, 6 active abilities, you can pick 4, each active has 4 or 5 different passives which can have a few points put into them, some of the passives are mutually exclusive and would do very different things
so for example, lets say you are a mage
you then choose from 3 specs
lets say one is chronomancer
time mage
you pick an ability, lets call it chaotic echo
this ability normally summons a random object or creature that then does damage, an echo from the future of something that could happen to your enemy
you wouldf then be able to slot in a few passives
an example of two mutually exclusive passives could be - your chaotic echo becomes a summon, summoning a creature from the future based on your current zone. It remains for 30 sec and the cooldown of chaotic echo is increased to 1 min
or
your chaotic echo now does an AoE at the targetted location, the cooldown is increased to 15 sec and the ability deals X damage over 10 sec
so this maintains the fantasy of the one ability
but allows you to make it into to two different things
swift oyster
so, rift lol
fresh osprey
you could also have passives like - your chaotic echo changes to fire damage
etc
tho that could also be done through some kind of slottable gem system to avoid making some passives more interesting than others
7 - the world
fresh osprey
in order to facilitate the races being different and having different physical abilities, world navigation needs to be part of the gameplay loop
treasures should be placed in locations only certain races can reach
different pathways should exist for different races
and different ways to get where you are going should be presented
think about World Quests
right now, you fly to a WQ
then you fly away
the only gameplay is the WQ itself
now what if while flying there was a chance a minigame could occur that would have you fight off some enemies
or you run into inclement magical weather and having to do a quick time event
this keeps players on their toes, engaged in the world, and makes the world feel alive
not just points on a map you are moving between
in addition - this is a fantasy (ideally)
so the world should be fantastic
it doesnt have to make sense as a real world
you can have floating islands
lava rivers
bone fish
as long as its consistent with its own internal rules
so yeah
fresh osprey
i think that covers all the basics of how to make a NEW MMO thats not just rehashing garbage but also has potential
i cant code for shit
im literally just an ideas guy
spice thistle
ideas can sell
fresh osprey
that and I know the difference between good and bad ideas
hey man
if someone ever WANTS to make a game, im up for being the ideas man
oh yeah - it also needs a good soundtrack
but no semi-successful game has ever had a bad soundtrack
so thats not a big problem
spice thistle
Well
FFXIV's OST rocks
Like
kicks's wow's soundtrack most of the times, mostly the boss fights considering they are actually sung in game
fresh osprey
i mean
the problem with boss soundtracks
especially for dungeons
its that it gets repetitive if you are doing that content over and over
spice thistle
I think it depends
fresh osprey
its why having area music, especially a mix of several variants or a longform track with variants is more effective for avoiding that
FFXIV's soundtrack is fun
spice thistle
Alexander's Locus doesn't feel repetitive
fresh osprey
but it gets annoying and has very little opportunity for nostalgia
spice thistle
I remember the first time I listened to it
fresh osprey
think about legion
spice thistle
Ehh I can say no to that one
fresh osprey
gimme a sec
spice thistle
Check Tycoon and Alexander
Or entirely with the twinning and the Crystal Tower and Omega raids
it just kicks in
fresh osprey
this is straight up one of the best examples of how to do music for a zone
theres i think 5 variations
and then 2 or 3 related but very distinct different themes
each with another 3-6 variations of that theme
this evokes a consistent theme
it immerses you in the world
but it doesnt get annoying
you dont go "god i cant listen to this anymore" or "i wish I could skip this"
and again - it does something FFXIV struggles to do
spice thistle
But I haven't heard of someone that has that thought about the music of FFXIV
spice thistle
ah
fresh osprey
let me rephrase that as a full sentence
spice thistle
catch the train peach
fresh osprey
it does something FFXIV fails to do in the zones - immerse you in the zone and make it feel part of the world
fresh osprey
FFXIV zone music is usually a variation on the expac theme
which is great
for the first 2 or 3 zones
spice thistle
I had my music off for some parts of the game
fresh osprey
exactly
spice thistle
like with ARR or SB
fresh osprey
i have never turned my music off in wow except when music is bugged during beta
spice thistle
with ShB i don't because ShB is good
fresh osprey
the core SB theme is great
spice thistle
I did it with WoD and BfA
fresh osprey
until its LITERALLY EVERYWHERE
BfA was good at the start'
for me, i stopped enjoying it with 8.3
spice thistle
...WoD had a certain tone that went through all the expac
fresh osprey
just because the music felt lazy
spice thistle
That was in raids too
fresh osprey
warlords music was honestly their weakest soundtrack i think ever
but legion was killer
MoP was great
and it didnt ever get annoying
spice thistle
I never silenced MoP
fresh osprey
it had enough variety while remaining grounded in the zone it was based in
fresh osprey
thats an important part of any soundtrack
legion was risky
it pushed boundaries
and had some avant garde music
which pushed some people away
the login literally starts with a chaotic intro
but BfA was great too
it just gamified a bit too much
the tracks were too short
and the variations were too similar
the only zones that truly felt perfect musically were voldun, nazmir, and stormsong valley
the music shifted with the sub-areas, but felt tied together thanks to instrumentation and core theme variation
spice thistle
I will say that Stormsong felt great...But on the alliance side the best music was to
fresh osprey
so yeah - if someone wants to hire me as a game producer/designer, theres my resume
spice thistle
But back to ShB, I have a feeling you haven't listened to their music, pre light and after light
fresh osprey
i dont like the ShB soundtrack
spice thistle
I will just post this one that was a great for an underwater area
fresh osprey
it feels too epic fantasy
but its epic fantasy 95% of the time, which is exhausting
spring burrow
For the theme of the xpac it works
spice thistle
fresh osprey
could you pass me the core theme of ShB?
like - the equivalent of the SB theme
but for ShB
fresh osprey
they dont even have hints of the theme tho?
i will say
this track is good
its very traditional final fantasy
spice thistle
Like
fresh osprey
its a bad MMO track
fresh osprey
yeah its a bad track for what it is
the problem is its a musical theme
and it doesnt have variations
spice thistle
fresh osprey
also FFXIV soundtracks tend to refuse having pauses
like the music is CONSTANT
its - exhausting
fresh osprey
music should feel like something that helps bring the world closer
NO
very no
thats the problem with FFXIV
spice thistle
fresh osprey
the music either comes out of nowhere and is this very broad theme that doesnt seem to fit the zone quite right even tho its musically wonderful
or its a constant super oppressive theme that makes sense but is just exhausting
did you play the Witcher 3?
fresh osprey
the Witcher 3 does music perfectly
it comes in sorta randomly outside combat
has themes based on the areas
and has multiple themes and even variations
but it spends at least 50% of the game without music
just ambiance and sound
because it makes the world feel REAL
and allows you to think
music gets in your head
and while it can be beautiful or catchy
if its too much, it can be annoying
a good track and integration of that track should NEVER have that happen
FFXIV for example has combat music
but its the same combat music for the expac
spice thistle
The thing is, the main theme of the expac is used only on the boss fights and such. And I think it depends on what game are you playing because well, FF
spice thistle
compared it to other games
fresh osprey
but thats sorta problematic
because its also an MMO
it needs to step away from doing the FF music thing to do the MMO music thing
if you are spending 4 hours questing in a zone, all 4 hours dont need music
this isnt a singleplayer RPG
fresh osprey
you want to be able to listen to the NPCs, hear the sound of the environments and such
WOAH
FFXV is the best boyband simulator I have ever played
spice thistle
oof
fresh osprey
but it does the standard FF music thing too
music is constant
but it makes sense
its a singleplayer RPG FF game
FFXIV is an MMO
you spend 4 hours in the same zone
you should spend MAYBE half of that hearing music'
spice thistle
I think
fresh osprey
and it should be broken up into 2-4 different tracks and multiple variations
spice thistle
The direction they have is
fresh osprey
such that a track comes on, and you recognize it, but also havent heard it before
spice thistle
Being more story focused than the MMO part
fresh osprey
which is what wow does
you can have story but not force your music and make it annoying
the reason traditional music works in a normal FF game is because you spend an hour or two in an area
and then go somewhere with different music
FFXIV unfortunately has you stay in an area MUCH longer
and while they will often have the zone's hub town have a different theme
the fact that leaving the town brings back the same theme for the zone
that gets annoying
honestly, FFXIV skimps on the music
people talk about the wow soundtrack and say tracks are too short
but they have 7 versions of each track
and each zone has 2-4 tracks just for that zone
so thats like 20 different pieces of music
which when played, while some might sound similar DONT sound the same
which stops your brain from complaining
because the human brain hates the same music playing repeatedly