Did this patch just kill Rematch’s skill ceiling?

[last pivot]

The deeper problem is who the feedback is coming from. I once commented in a thread about defensive weaknesses pointing out that tackles have aim assist. Got 30+ downvotes from people who didn’t disagree, they denied the mechanic exists entirely. These are the voices shaping the patches. I’ve seen the beta feedback too. People flagged that the broken V-dash variation was still in while the clean one got removed. They shipped it anyway.

And there’s a pattern worth noticing. The complaints are never “fix this” or “tune this down.” They’re always “remove it.” That tells you everything. If the issue was range or balance, the ask would be an adjustment. When the ask is deletion, the issue is that someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with it. Depth is inconvenient for people who refuse to adapt, so they lobby to have it removed entirely.

!!!!!!!!! Listening to your community is good. Listening to the loudest part of it that has zero understanding of game design or depth, that’s how you ruin a game. Sloclap should know better than to let Reddit and casual Discord users dictate their mechanics. These people can’t tell the difference between a broken exploit and a high skill tool they haven’t learned yet. !!!!!!!!!!

Sloclap built something with real potential here. But every patch that removes depth to satisfy players who were never going to stay is a patch that loses the ones who were.

[last pivot]

Did this patch just kill Rematch’s skill ceiling?

[signal scaffold]

"The "pulls the ball from too far" argument is a ping issue, not a mechanics issue. Every online game deals with this. "
If this was true, it wouldn't happen in offline freeplay. Vexis was overtuned, it made the existing issues with tackle rollback way worse due to moving the ball's hitbox so far. You can anticipate the vexis, tackle in the path of the ball's movement, but nothing happens because you actually needed to tackle the player instead.

Removing techs that increase your magnet range allow the game to be more readable. That's not done because reddit says it's OP. You say that collecting the ball is 100% risk and push volley is 0% risk. That difference is intended, push volley has always been a safer option than grabbing the ball. Stance grab and vexis just remove that risk with very little skill required to gain that advantage.

You can't just "fix" the netcode in these instances, because ping will ALWAYS exist, you should balance the game around that by removing exploits that create rollback issues. Even on a 0ms ping match, the vexis and stance grab would be effective due to the magnet range increase.

Imo you should only be able to do 'on ball' moves if you have actually moved within physical range of the ball. Pulling the ball from thin air is the issue.

This does not feel fair to defend against, even though it's possible to learn to adjust, it's counter intuitive.

Any time the ball is considered in possession, it should be visibly under the player's feet. Not far like the vexis/stance grab used to allow.

This is why they reduced the range of the ippy and added an actual animation to show the character grabbing the ball. It allows the movement to be readable and doesn't desync the ball's hitbox from it's visual location

[last pivot]

V-dash had multiple variations. Some relied on the posterior lateral part of the player hitbox to pull the ball from a wider angle, and yes those had more range. But the standard V-dash kept the ball fully inside the player’s feet. And that got removed too. If the issue was range, why remove the variation where your feet were fully on the ball?

[south dune]

https://tenor.com/view/the-point-over-your-head-stupid-gif-9513667

[last pivot]

Netcode is absolutely improvable. Saying ping will always exist doesn’t mean you balance the game by deleting mechanics. You improve the system around it.

[last pivot]

On the “physical range” suggestion, that’s not realistic and would cause more problems than it solves. Hitboxes in online games have never perfectly matched the visible character model and never will.

And on top of that, even the normal V-dash where you bring your legs fully into the ball got removed. If the issue was range, how does that make any sense?

[signal scaffold]

They said they havent finished their work on dashing into the ball, they want to incorporate that into the dribbling options, but vexis as it worked they were not able to balance like an intended mechanic

same as ippy

hopefully they bring back dashing onto the ball and it feels smooth but still fair

[last pivot]

This ippy variation and the boost ippy both share this issue with tackling. There’s a counter, always tackle the side closer to the player, if they drag it the auto tackle usually will redirect you toward them, if not you will tackle the ball normally, 100% guaranteed (not sure about this patch since they reduced it). There are always ways to counter if you think critically enough to find them. Either way, both are separate problems and don’t touch V-dash. In the same scenario against a defender, V-dash gets caught. That’s the difference.

[last pivot]

You say the difference between 100% and 0% risk is intended. But do you think two options has any depth?

Any player who truly understands this game knows that holding the ball is actually the most dangerous thing you can do. When the ball is at your feet, your entire player hitbox becomes the target, too big, too easy to tackle. Add tackle range, phantom range, your ping and even your “opponent’s ping”!! all factoring into the same calculation, and holding the ball becomes a disadvantage. But when you push the ball away, it has its own smaller hitbox, much harder to contest. You push the ball to reduce your exposure, then use creative methods to pick it back up. Stance grab, V-dash, ippy, golden boost. These were adding depth to an already risky situation. Removing them without replacing them with anything else doesn’t balance the game, it flattens it.

Now that’s gone. As a defender I just wait. You push the ball, you either walk into it casually, 100% risk, or spam X (push ball). And even that isn’t safe against a smart defender, they know about it too, they just wait for you to commit. Your only real outs are passing or hoping a boost creates an opening. That’s not balance, that’s encouraging passive play and punishing any attempt at creativity!!!!

That’s what removing the middle ground actually means.

[long cipher]

imo the skill ceilling was never higher than now because they made dribbling, defending and goalkeeping harder. Now good dribblers can dribble good defenders and good defenders can stop good dribbler.
Defending a 1v1 was easy since the start of the game, now it actually take skill

[trim cosmos]

Completely agreed

☝️

[chilly trail]

Wanted to step in and say sloclap has never been good at netcode and matchmaking. I had hoped it wouldve improved when they specifically hired more people for that field but it looks like it has not. So you may be stuck with bad ping in this game for a very long time

[last pivot]

Sloclap said in their own patch notes that passive defense is too strong and active defense is unrewarding. Their goal was to make active defending more impactful and rewarding. That’s a good goal.

But look at what they actually did. Tackle assist went down (Good thing), but they compensated with bigger hitboxes and more range. Good defenders were never relying on assist anyway, so all this did was make them even stronger. The only nerf that hit passive defenders was an 8% hitbox reduction on defensive stance. Meanwhile over 60% of ball retrieval mechanics are gone. That’s not pushing the game toward active play.

And I say this as an aggressive defender myself. I used V-dash to punish attackers who overcommit, and I’ve been working on ippy steals in a similar way. This patch didn’t just hurt attackers, it removed tools that creative defenders were using too. They said they want active defense to be more rewarding, then removed the exact mechanics that made it possible. That’s not moving toward their goal, that’s the opposite.

[long cipher]

but in this patch everything became harder. The old "mechanics" were too buggy and not realistic so they removed them and now they are gonna add new mechs in the game. We already have the EE that now can go in any direction really fast which is broken. What they did was good for rematch future because we cant build a big game on weird mechanics where we grab the ball out of nowhere from so magnetism. Ofc now we are missing some mechanics but at least we have a game that have sense in almost every interaction and thats more important than mechanics imo. We just need to be patient now

[chilly trail]

I just wish theydve added them at the same time as removal

[last pivot]

There’s nothing in the patch notes about new close ball manipulation mechanics coming. They mentioned flicker and 0 stam dribble fixes but nothing that replaces what was lost. Patience is fine when there’s a plan, right now there’s just a gap.

On the magnetism point, there’s a difference between the buggy long range variations and the standard V-dash where your feet were fully on the ball. Both got removed. If the goal was to fix the buggy ones, why remove the clean ones too?

[crimson sundial]

I completely agree with your opinion. I've gradually distanced myself from Rematch, and several friends of ours, who play Rematch a lot, have also been doing so.

[long cipher]

there is a private server with the devs where competitive player can talk with them and they keep us updated. About the magnetism i think its hard to make the part beetwen the "big" magnet and the little like nerfing the magnet in general was necessary and they couldnt really do something else

[loud dawn]

There’s no point in trying to debate with the current base players; most of them will just say you’re a spammer/abuser of exploits.

I’ve already done my share of huge feedbacks, breaking down piece by piece how bad the game’s structure is regarding dribbling. Most people just want the rematch to turn into a square, purely pass-based game.

It’s just funny how EVERYONE who came to debate with me ended up convinced that the current system is flawed and deserves special attention, instead of just having things removed without anything put in their place.

Interestingly, the only V-dash that "still works" is the glitched V-dash; the normal one that grazed the ball is gone.

[last pivot]

If that server exists and competitive players are involved, the results should show in the patches, and they don’t. On the magnet point, sure, nerfing the range makes sense. But that’s not what happened. The move is completely broken now, when you use it your momentum dies and your player freezes like the ball is made of concrete. That’s not a fix. So even if removing the magnet was necessary, what excuse is there for shipping it in this state? Hard to believe competitive players signed off on this.

[chilly trail]

I think he is in that server

[loud dawn]

They didn’t approve it; most of them hated the beta of patch 10.

[last pivot]

Yea, I’ve seen the beta feedback myself. Most people didn’t like it. People specifically pointed out that the broken V-dash variation was still in the game while the normal clean one got removed. That was reported and they shipped it anyway.

[loud dawn]

Mr. Wiki (Dawnson) himself took those same feedbacks from the community to send to the Sloclap team, and he also said that the roadmap was delayed because of the negative feedback that caught the attention of competitive players, and that they would be focusing more on the competitive side and depth of the game.

It’s every fallacy and faulty argument they use to try to reinforce the supposed logic that V-dash, Ippy, and Golden Boost are bad for the game just because they’re considered exploits.

[last pivot]

I think I'm so bad at debating that I probably convinced people that dribbling needs more nerfs and defense needs more buffs. 😂

[chilly trail]

the roadmap was delayed in relation to twrtles post about sloclap focusing more on the esports side of things. not due to the negative feedback from the dribble changes if im correct

[loud dawn]

The post that started all of this was a negative feedback about patch 10, which interestingly got a reaction from the competitive players, Numaks.

I just can’t remember the guy’s name right now because the beta feedbacks are closed.

[last pivot]

the irony is those casual players won’t stick around either. They’ll find something else to complain about, get their nerfs, then move on to the next game. It’s a cycle. The game keeps losing its dedicated players chasing feedback from people who were never going to stay in the first place.
Getting those dedicated players back is nearly impossible once they’ve lost trust in the devs. 90% of the skilled players I know have already left because of these decisions. And the ones who complained? They’re leaving too, just for different reasons. Their suggestions come from a place of not understanding the game deeply enough, never having designed one, never having played anything at a high level. That’s not feedback worth building a game around.

[crimson sundial]

I’m total with you on this, it’s honestly a chronic disease in the gaming industry right now. It’s that 'Casual Paradox' where devs sacrifice depth to chase a demographic that is volatile by nature and has zero loyalty. It’s exactly what I’m seeing with Rematch lately. I’ve been grinding this game since it dropped back in June 2025, I’ve mastered the mechanics and I was part of that core group ready to stick around for years, but Patch 10 is just vicious. Even as a day-one veteran, I’m starting to drift away because this patch manages to alienate everyone at once. The dedicated players feel like their skill and time investment have been completely devalued, and the casuals who cried for these nerfs will still leave anyway because they don't realize that by stripping away the complexity, they’ve removed the soul of the game. It’s tragic to see a game with this much potential shoot itself in the foot by taking advice from people who never actually learned to play at a high level. Once the 'Old Guard' loses trust and leaves, the game loses its identity and the servers just go cold. Such a massive waste

[chilly trail]

the post im referring to is this one https://discordapp.com/channels/1055140456184426607/1478080908723621909 i did confirm it was this post that got the raodmap pushed back

[loud dawn]

Oh, thanks bro.

[idle rose]

Now that auto aim is reduced (I think it should be gone completely imo) it's even easier in s3.0 to beat your defender using clever spacing and well-timed push balls than patch 9 was

You genuinely don't need emergent tech to beat 99% of defenders anymore if you practice your footsies

And the 1% player was going to beat you anyways on any of the 10 patches because they're cracked. They don't count

[signal scaffold]

I 100% agree. Tackle assist only fucks me over when I try to anticipate a dribble and the game moves my aim.

[last pivot]

Footsies, micro spacing, spacing, it only works if the defender engages. If they just stand passively and wait, no amount of it will bait them into a mistake. You’re back to the same problem, no depth, just two players waiting for the other to commit.

The whole point of push ball isn’t mainly to beat someone, it’s to separate the ball from your hitbox. When the ball is at your feet your entire player hitbox becomes the target. Add tackle range, phantom range, your ping and your opponent’s ping all in the same calculation, holding the ball is a disadvantage. Push ball reduces that exposure, but getting past a competent defender with push ball alone is nearly impossible unless they completely misread the tackle direction, or fell asleep mid game, which honestly isn’t that surprising anymore.

And the “spam X after push ball” approach is passive and limited. It only works if there’s an open lane or a passing option. Against organized defense it goes nowhere, and the game turns into keeper passes while both sides wait for the other to make the first move.

Stance ball control with analogue movement isn’t reliable either. It’s heavily ping dependent and falls apart completely against multiple defenders or just a passive one. It only works against a very bad and aggressive defender.

[last pivot]

And while we're on the topic of hitboxes, fine dribble and spacing tackles, speaking of visual consistency, Bex earlier mentioned that you need to tackle the player not the ball the moment it connects with their hitbox, which feels unfair for baiting defenders.

[last pivot]

Fair point on the buggy variations of Ippy. But holding the ball isn't exactly fair either. Your entire player hitbox becomes the target the moment the ball is at your feet. In real football nobody tackles your whole body, they go for the ball. Yet here you can get tackled from unreasonable distances, hit from behind on your legs, or sent flying from a slide that connects from across the pitch and the game just continues. And that also works in free play and even that it increases incredibly in game. If visual fairness and realism are the standard, that should apply to both sides. The issue isn't one mechanic, it's the whole system being inconsistent.

"Preoccupied with a single leaf, you won't see the tree. Preoccupied with a single tree, you'll miss the entire forest."

[signal scaffold]

How do you know that it works in freeplay if you can never get tackled in freeplay?
I do agree that there's a disconnect between how tackles work in rematch vs real life. I do wish there was a way to make tackles more accurate and reward actually moving the ball to avoid a tackle rather than moving your entire player.
Avoiding tackles in rematch is less about small movements of the ball and physical blocking. It's more about larger movements of your position, and mixing up retaining possession and pushing the ball around.

I would like to see some more depth to tackles, I thought about a "counter" or "parry" mechanic to avoid tackles, if not that, maybe a system that differentiates between a clean tackle, and a glancing tackle. That way you wouldn't be so severely punished if someone tackles the outer limits of your hitbox. The issue is because of the way rollback works, there will always be instances playing online where someone seems to hit you from out of range, or seems to miss but then the ball rolls back to get pushed by the tackle. It's unavoidable unless you play on 0 ping.

But the fact is, unless the game isn't working correctly, you can't just tackle next to someone and hit them, you do have to be accurate, especially now with the reduced assist.

Nice proverb btw, doesn't really make your points any more valid though.

Also, the amount of times you tackle someone and it is ignored kind of balances out the times you get tackled by something you thought should miss.

[last pivot]

You don’t need freeplay to test tackles on 0 ping. There are two ways to test it one simple and one way more complicated. I’ll show you the simple one when I get home.

[idle rose]

Not engaging means free real estate to start a set play. A real defender who knows that HAS to engage or else he's throwing

And if he's not engaging you in box then congrats free shot on goal

Doing nothing doesn't work against real footsies, it quite literally hands the offender initiative on a silver platter

and thus, bait out a tackle, whiff punish, profit

[loud dawn]

I never understood Rematch’s logic of tackling the player instead of the ball, but who am I to judge that decision, right?

It’s like the decision to have a box for the goalkeeper but still allow them to jump and punch the ball outside of it, choices I wouldn’t make in a football game.

[last pivot]

Practice range against bots. I trained there a lot when I first started and it taught me quickly how bad these hitboxes actually are. You don’t need freeplay to know the hitbox is bigger when you have the ball, and I have video of a bot on 0 ping connecting a tackle from a distance that shouldn’t be possible. This was way worse in older patches too. Either way the issue isn’t theoretical, it shows up with no ping, no rollback, no excuses.

[loud dawn]

Just to help you out.

[last pivot]

But you know what ?

it’s better that way. Reducing the possessed ball hitbox to match just the ball sounds good on paper but it’s a bad idea in practice. You’d need to massively increase tackle assist to compensate, because fine ball movements are fast and easy to execute while realistic tackle precision with a controller is incredibly hard. The result is that good defenders who never relied on assist would be forced to depend on it the same way bad ones do. That’s not improving the skill gap, that’s collapsing it from the other direction.

[loud dawn]

Maybe they could treat the ball as a separate hitbox. If the tackle hits the player, it could apply some kind of stun or a noticeable speed nerf, and the ball would get knocked slightly away from the player in possession. If it interacts with the ball’s hitbox, then you lose possession?

What if, when the tackle hits the player’s hitbox cleanly, they fall and completely lose the ball?

Small things that would need a lot of work to polish and balance, but in my view it would be fairer for everyone.

“But that would be bad for the defender” just give them more tools, like letting them grab the player with the ball or something like that, to disrupt them either by slowing them down or making them fall.

(though obviously that would cost stamina)

[last pivot]

On your point about avoiding tackles being more about larger positional movements than small ball movements, that’s exactly the problem. The reason small ball movements are hard to execute consistently is ping and oversized hitboxes. So players compensated with speed and positioning to create balance. The mechanics that got removed were part of that compensation. The casuals who complained about them were essentially asking to remove the thing that was keeping the game balanced for high level play.

[last pivot]

On the parry idea, even if the netcode issues were solved, the mechanic itself creates a bigger problem. Parry systems make defenders inherently more passive, which is the opposite of what Rematch needs. And games that are built around parry mechanics still struggle with it online. Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are clear examples, both P2P, and parry timing is completely inconsistent between players. Against someone with high ping you have to parry way earlier than the animation suggests, there’s no fixed window, you’re guessing based on their connection. For Honor went further and added dedicated servers, and the parry issues shifted rather than disappeared. High ping players’ attacks became faster and harder to react to compared to players with lower ping, creating a different problem in place of the original one.

Expecting Sloclap to build a netcode and system that handles this cleanly is unrealistic. And even if they could, balancing a parry mechanic in a game like Rematch is incredibly difficult. Too strong and attackers avoid every tackle effortlessly, making defense pointless. Too weak and nobody uses it and we changed the whole system for nothing. I’d guess the devs already understand this, which is probably exactly why there’s no animation in the game that gives you i-frames.

[signal scaffold]

Deadlock manages their system pretty well, using dark souls as an example of netcode isnt really representative of the entire gaming space especially modern day
And what you are talking about having to parry early for high ping opponents, wouldnt happen in rematch due to rollback netcode.

I agree its difficult to balance correctly. But I think a parry works differently to i-frames, because there would be a punishment for missing the parry. Something that actually adds risk to the potential reward.

[last pivot]

The glancing tackle idea is interesting.

The player with possession would basically have a double hitbox. The ball sticks to them and becomes part of their collision area, so you end up with two layers naturally.
The inner zone is the core control area right around the ball. Tackle reaches there, clean tackle, you win the ball.

The outer zone is the edge of that possession area. Tackle only hits there, the ball gets knocked loose or disturbed but not staggering the opponent.

So instead of every tackle being win or lose, it comes down to how deep the tackle actually gets into the ball carrier’s space.

It looks like a good idea but I think we can’t tell for sure without testing it.

[signal scaffold]

Yeah, the binary nature of tackles is definitely a problem

[last pivot]

That’s exactly why I mentioned For Honor after Dark Souls. Over the years, For Honor has had dedicated servers and the developers experimented with different networking approaches: P2P, delay-based networking, and even rollback solutions. The parry issues didn’t disappear.

On highly ping-dependent games like For Honor, Dark Souls 3, fighting games in general, or Rematch, these challenges show just how difficult it is to balance a game around i-frames or parry mechanics.

[signal scaffold]

again, deadlock manages it, so it's possible, but I agree very difficult

[last pivot]

I’ve never played Deadlock, but even if their system works well for a shooter, it’s likely very different from Rematch. In Rematch, multiple players interact closely with a physical ball, creating complex collision and hitbox interactions. Directly applying solutions from a shooter could easily introduce new problems, such as priority conflicts or other emergent behaviors caused by overlapping physics and latency. The systems simply aren’t comparable, so any mechanical change would require careful testing within Rematch itself.

That said, I’d love to see creative solutions like this explored in the future

[last pivot]

I’ll be honest, I came into this discussion ready to defend these mechanics and I still think the removal was wrong. But talking through the parry idea made me realize the scale of the problem is bigger than I initially framed it. The issue isn’t just “these mechanics were removed.” It’s that the underlying systems, hitboxes, netcode, ping compensation, need serious work before any of these solutions become viable. Removing mechanics doesn’t fix that. It doesn’t address the underlying problem.

[signal scaffold]

Why would player hitboxes act differently in a TPS vs rematch specifically? Im not that knowledgeable on the details

[last pivot]

Hmm...

I don’t mean that hitboxes themselves behave differently. The difference is the environment they operate in.

In a TPS most interactions are usually simple player-to-player hits or projectiles, so the server mainly checks whether the shot connected.

In Rematch you have several players interacting in close range while also contesting a physical ball that attaches and detaches from players. That creates multiple collision checks at the same time player vs player, player vs ball, and possession changes, which makes the interaction logic much more complex. That’s why I think solutions from shooters don’t translate directly.

This is just my understanding of it.
I might be wrong since I’m only looking at it from a pro player’s perspective, not a dev.

[idle rose]

I do like the parry idea actually!

[signal scaffold]

thanks for the info

[last pivot]

Np!

[last pivot]

Bline, you know the one thing casual players would actually accept without complaining?

When a really good dribbler gets past you with some emergent tech or “exploit” after you’ve been standing in front of him passively for a whole minute…
You just pull out a machine gun and start shooting at him

They just want it easy, not balanced.

[loud dawn]

Yeah, I see.

[idle rose]

Not gonna lie,

the ability to shoulder check someone off-ball would do wonders against missile meta

The "No fouls" mentality was quite literally one of their selling points in the original trailers too

And it's pretty much impossible to stop someone from making a cut to exploit prio mechanics, which is a huge complaint of the playerbase rn

[last pivot]

Not sure I fully understand the shoulder check idea. If someone is standing near the box without the ball, do you just run up and hit them? How would that work exactly without becoming a tool to just bully off-ball players constantly?

[idle rose]

Bullying off-ball players is the point, actually! RN you can't really do anything about comp strikers who just sit in top box and wait for their midfielder to call Left or Right, since they can kinda just walk right through you.

Implementing a stronger way to screen somebody to interfere with them making runs in the first place would be good too I guess

Because the only defense to comp cuts is react in like 0.1 seconds, make a well-executed dive / int, and pray

Which is a problem because the median reaction time is like 0.23 seconds

0.27*

[last pivot]

100ms U sure?

[idle rose]

Feels like it sometimes lmao

Main problem is you have to be obnoxiously good at defense to stop an intermediate-level tactic

And besides the defenders would have to use their brains too if you could body check people

Nothing stopping a striker from sucker punching you and THEN making his run

[last pivot]

170ms reaction time here and I block 90% unless they did a teleporting bicycle kick. It also feels very reactable if you are in range of the opponent, like it's over 250ms for sure.

[idle rose]

Good for you you're several standard deviations faster than average

[last pivot]

That was average in the Dark Souls 3 & Elden Ring high-level PvP community. Someone there had a consistent 115–120 ms average on the benchmark.
Raw reaction time isn’t everything, though, I had slightly slower numbers but performed better in game reactions.

[idle rose]

The data I used suggests expecting anything faster than 200ms from your players is a very tough ask for your playerbase

[signal scaffold]

I agree, its really only when they teleport or correctly direction fake you to comit to a direction that you end up not being able to stop a volley now they lowered the max height and buffed outfield dive

reaction isn't everything, it's about being able to anticipate the play

[last pivot]

The body check idea would get abused way more on the attacking side. You could hit the defender right before receiving a pass, stun him, then shoot with no pressure. The mechanic meant to counter strikers becomes a tool that helps them. And coordinated teams would abuse it even more, one player body checks the defender while the other receives the ball. That’s not adding depth

[idle rose]

The box box would become a mosh pit, yes

That's kind of the point because navigating big box becomes something you'd have to get good at

[last pivot]

You’re forgetting that attackers can communicate easily, whether through voice chat or ingame signals like “Sorry”, “We got this”. They know exactly when and where the pass is coming. The defender relies purely on positioning and reaction time. If you add body checks you’re not fixing the balance, you’re handing coordinated teams a new setup tool and making the missile meta even stronger with pre-planned plays.

[idle rose]

If you're sitting still in box to set up a missile you'd also be getting mugged by the defense in this scenario

[marsh gorge]

For Honor's netcode is legit the most painfull experience you can have...

I think that this patch has removed a lot of good tools to break down defenses, although I think Rainbow Flick spam should still be nerfed further and emphasize ground dribbling more.
They try and make the game more realistic? You should be way more explosive by dribbling on the ground then juggling in the air. But removing the vexis???? Do what you did with Yippie and do it now, the game cannot take more dead periods... It's Season 3 and we are not even a year in. This game has so much potential yet every patch seems like a departure from the original idea. I'm all on board with the keeper changes, but the push-pull of defense and offense should force both sides to interact, not just sit and wait for a reaction by holding defensive stance. And now with only push balls and dribble taps creating space and actually dribbling has become way harder.

[warm summit]

People say "missile meta" like it's a bad thing. That's like talking about rocket League and saying "air juggling meta." You mean "being smart and good at the game meta?" Half of rematch is launching counter attacks.

There should be several different methods for launching an attack. Dribbling and "missile meta" were two of them. They're both killed now.

[last pivot]

No

[warm summit]

Yes

[marsh gorge]

It feels like they want the game to feel like it did on release day and not let it evolve organically.

[warm summit]

This game was better on release day lol

[last pivot]

Joy, why do you think the missile meta is still effective and the most used strategy in tournaments? And why do you think people complain about it, even though you can stop more than 50% of those attacks just by rotating around the field and spamming squares, sometimes even without seeing the ball or knowing exactly where it is?

[marsh gorge]

Bar Airwalking, yeah it was. But I reallt loved Airwalking haha

[warm summit]

I think it's still effective because it's always been effective. It is and always has been a viable strategy, and it used to coexist with other viable strategies.

I think people complain about it because instead of building out more consistent, intuitive counters to it or adding depth to the game, the devs have focused more on adjusting parameters to discourage what was labeled as "cheap" gameplay. But the fact has and will continue to remain that being offsides in a football match is one of the strongest most effective strategies so long as it's allowed, Rematch by its nature can never get rid of that, and even if they removed jumping then people will find ways to launch ground missiles lol

[signal scaffold]

I agree with this. Whatever you add for outfield players can be used by both attackers and defenders.

[warm summit]

In other words, to answer what I think is the sentiment of your question, they keep trying to limit the perceived "cheap" tactics rather than build the game out and introduce more tactical depth.

[signal scaffold]

When no one knew how to play? When most shots were either at the wall or directly at keeper? When keeprs just dive out of the way for no reason? I don't know about that, it was certainly less frustrating because everyone just accepted that they were bad because it's a new game. But release was rough

so laggy, and the teleporting with EE was insane

[warm summit]

You could rainbow flick over the goalie and it was fast and would work half the time and you felt like such a cheeser for doing it. It was so fun

Patch 2 was my favorite time of the game tho

[signal scaffold]

You could do that because keepers were slow to react

thats it

[warm summit]

Lotta issues but it was so fast, so sharp, and you could kick the ball from the GK and bully them lol

[signal scaffold]

it felt faster because other players were slower

and the act of reacting fast requires anticipation or familiarity with what youre reacting to

no one had that early in the game

because no one had hundreds of hours yet

[warm summit]

I mean you're arguing with whether or not I had more fun then vs. now so....I'm saying it was better to me cuz I had more fun

Objectively better? Idk

[signal scaffold]

Im not saying you didnt have more fun, Im explaining why it was that way

its not to do with the speed of rainbow flicks or stuff, its simply that players were worse at defending and GK

[warm summit]

The rainbow flick speed has been changed tho since then

A few times

[signal scaffold]

I know, but the impact of that change isnt as strong as people make it out to be

[warm summit]

It is to me lol

[signal scaffold]

its a majority players adapting and improving

[warm summit]

I don't disagree with what you're saying tho too about that

[signal scaffold]

People always talk about the way the game used to be and they focus on the way mechanics felt, but ignore the fact that the skill of the other player is half of that experience

Like when people talk about dribbling and how good it was

thats just because you could literally just rainbow flick and it had a very good chance of working

lmao

it only continues to get harder to get past defenders as the average level of skill increases

but the actually skilled players still manage

[warm summit]

But if you compare for example patch 2 vs patch 3, they changed the gameplay so much, reduced the speed so much, and introduced crossplay at the same time so half the players thought it was how the game always had been and the others were frustrated

Its true that players get better and improve the meta, but they are continuously changing and dumbing down the identity of the game

They're reducing the skill ceiling like the thread asks

[signal scaffold]

I agree there was a big change in the mechanics. My stance is just that I dont believe that 99% of players were even making the most of the mechanics that were stronger before patch 3

[warm summit]

Because every patch you have to relearn parts of the game from scratch

They aren't being additive in their patches

They're being reductive and destructive

To address complaints from players who don't like the exploits

They're baby proofing their game

Of course players get better at that

[signal scaffold]

it all depends on your viewpoint. Seems like the devs just brought stuff in overtuned, and as players learned to exploit mechanics more over time, things had to be reduced

most of the stuff they removed were egregious exploits

that felt unfair, regardless of identity

[warm summit]

But whenever they reintroduce a bit of that overturning we have a great time and whenever they reduce it again it's like the apocalypse lol

After patch 3

[signal scaffold]

Not been my experience personally

[warm summit]

All they did was speed up the game again

As soon as the game got too fast, the cut it back down

It's just unproductive

[signal scaffold]

There was 1 patch that made tackling feel very different, and that had the largest impact on my gameplay

[warm summit]

The game isn't growing out

[signal scaffold]

everything besides that has been a small adjustment that hasnt taken that much time really

besides maybe the prio change

which was probably the best change to the game

defending felt completely random before that

[warm summit]

That's my point. They address every problem of the game by making parameter adjustments

Which effectively kills one thing in favor of another

They aren't trying to keep both or reward both

[signal scaffold]

they made ippy a real mechanic that feels fair, they added forward swipe pushball as a real mechanic that controller players can do equally to kbm players

[warm summit]

So half the players are always put down

[signal scaffold]

and the prio change was not a parameter adjustment

it was an overhaul to the prio system

specifically the volley stack system

[warm summit]

To me the game feels less intentional than ever

[signal scaffold]

Hmm, sad that you have that experience

its very different for me

[warm summit]

Well I won't knock you for enjoying it

[signal scaffold]

Despite recent lag issues, there has been so few instances of play where it feels like I lost due to the game fucking me over

[warm summit]

https://discord.com/channels/1055140456184426607/1488288179600621628

This is my post about it

But don't feel a need to respond there

[signal scaffold]

cheers ill give it a read

im down to understand others' experience

[warm summit]

I have the opposite experience lol

[signal scaffold]

EE not working was a huge issue for me before, like using EE but not immediately getting the benefit

this recent patch has improved that SO much

I feel rewarded for reacting quickly now

and smart EE/stamina management

I win many engagements because I either use EE better/more quickly than my opponent, or because I have EE and they don't.

its fantastic

[warm summit]

EE used to be soooo sharp T.T. In this patch, I can't use it right after rainbow flicking anymore, which means it's hard to trap the ball into an EE and run away with it. Which means I have to play in the prescribed way more than in the individually expressive way

[warm summit]

So I feel actually punished for what would usually have been good, right positioning

[signal scaffold]

You mean after doing a volley?

[warm summit]

After receiving a volley

Trapping a volley

[signal scaffold]

by volley, I mean inputting on a diamond

that's a volley

by sloclaps terminology

[warm summit]

I'm just talking about an airborne pass or shot-pass coming at me and I hit the rainbow flick button to catch it

Then hit EE after

Is not tight enough this patch and has become unviable

[signal scaffold]

Yeah, honestly, I am glad that's the case. Receiving the ball with a volley rainbow flick is objectively the most effective way to avoid a pressing defender

so im glad that its nerfed

[warm summit]

But I get pressured even if there's no defenders pressing me in the moment

[signal scaffold]

just running or dashing onto the ball is way more effective, and that requires more skill

[warm summit]

It takes that long

[signal scaffold]

then dont volley rainbow

its the easy cheap method to recieve a ball

it shouldnt be the best

[warm summit]

But my point is that my expression in the gameplay was reduced so that someone like you could feel better. Instead, they could have added a tool to defenders to better predict and counter how Im playing

Instead they just cut me down

And reduced the overall experience's list of possible interactions

[signal scaffold]

They evened the playing grounds

better players wont recieve the ball with a volley rainbow unless they know they have the space

[warm summit]

They could have done that by raising half the others up rather than destroying half or knocking them down

[signal scaffold]

How would they do that?

[warm summit]

I'm saying, you need such a disgusting amount of space that it's not worth EVER using it

It was never SO good that it broke the game

[signal scaffold]

personally I got out of the habit a while ago

because it's boring and I prefer to do things that require more skill

[warm summit]

But this is where we're having a clash

You're saying you got out of the habit

That habit is my fun

I like it

[signal scaffold]

why is your fun more valid than mine?

[warm summit]

I find ways to make it skillful

[signal scaffold]

hmm I dont see how, juggling the ball is not difficult

[warm summit]

It's not more valid. That's why I would prefer they add to the game ways to counter me rather than take away my fun so yours can be equal

They should give you more fun rather than remove mine

[signal scaffold]

Thats the same difference though

[warm summit]

It's not if you get more tools

[signal scaffold]

either your move is less effective, or other players are more effective at countering your move

same difference in the end

[warm summit]

Noooo because in one instance, the game's depth grows and the level of prediction or counterplay or mind grows

[signal scaffold]

either way doing the volley rainbow would be a worse decision

[warm summit]

In the other it is reduced

Hence the ceiling being lowered

[warm summit]

In my version, it would be a worse decision if I assumed the defender was going to predict it

In your version, they don't have to predict it or think about it. It's just dumb if I do it

It's free

[signal scaffold]

Im fine with them removing options that are objectively better than other options, so many players received the ball with rainbow because keeping the ball in the air is the easiest way to stop defenders from blocking you

[warm summit]

My version requires more expression and mind. Yours deletes all that

[signal scaffold]

from the defensive perspective, it feels less fair because you have less options to counter air play

[warm summit]

Why are you opposed to them adding more defensive options to stop that

[signal scaffold]

like what though?

I cant think of any

[warm summit]

A higher jump thats more commital

A sharp diagonal jump thats more committal

A sharp turnaround move

I can think of a lot

At least in my version, it requires them to react or predict

[signal scaffold]

why should the defenders have to commit more?

[warm summit]

Because it's their decision vs my decision, both being committal

They could also defend me by just eaiting

Waiting*

If they think I'm gonna flick

They don't have to commit right away

[signal scaffold]

Its the same logic as when juggling rainbow flicks was easy, especially before the prio change

[warm summit]

Which they wouldndo

[signal scaffold]

it felt very unfair to defend in many circumstances

compared to how easy it was to do

its the imbalance of that difficulty that I dont like

and Im glad they balanced that

attackers cant be lazy now

[warm summit]

But your solution is to make everything equally easy and lazy

[signal scaffold]

no, just make the things that are easy, less effective

like volley shots

imo that needs a big change too

[warm summit]

Kicking the ball is no longer allowed, it's too easy

[signal scaffold]

the skill it takes to just run left or right while aiming at the goal is nothing compared to the skill it takes to react to someones run and outfield dive on someones aerial volley

if youre going to strawman me im not going to engage

[warm summit]

I think if the goal is to reduce the edge of the game, then they've succeeded in having an edgeless game

I wish the goal was to highlight and add more edges

This is where we differ

You value an experience that levels the game

I value a bumpy playing field

[signal scaffold]

I mean its just an immutable fact, when the ball is in the air it's harder to defend because defenders are on the ground.
So they have continued to reduce the ways that a single attacker can maintain control of the ball in the air

and I think that's good, it sucks that you enjoyed that

and its less effective now, so you cant have the fun you want to have

but thats a seperate issue to the balance of the game

[warm summit]

I think the dedication to absolute total balance is what is killing the game for me and a lot of players

Because the balls activity in the air wasn't the only issue

People were also mad about dribbling speed

Why is it bad that attacking is a little stronger than defending?

That makes the game higher action, higher stakes

Why does every position of the game need to feel equally powerful

I think defending ought to be harder, or at least that across the board more tools should be added and the games expressiveness should be expanded outwardly

Rather than cutting things down to level and balance the experience

Religiously

You can make a perfectly balanced game. Pong is a perfectly balanced game. Lots of people play league of legends. Not many playing pong

Chess is like the only game that hasn't had a patch and has a huge player base lol

[last pivot]

That’s exactly the point I’ve been making. They keep removing what looks “cheap” on the surface instead of building proper counters to it. V-dash, other mechanics, all gone for the same reason. Not because they broke the game, but because they looked unfamiliar to players who hadn’t learned to deal with them yet. The missile meta survives every patch because it’s simple and readable. Everything that required actual learning to counter got removed. That’s not balance, that’s the game getting smaller every update.

And honestly the missile meta is a good example of what they should have done instead. If they followed the same approach they used with emerging mechanics, they would have deleted missiles from day one. But they didn’t. They adjusted the priority system and netcode, and it became more readable and better balanced. That was the right call. The same logic should have applied to V-dash and the rest.

And the missile meta itself isn’t broken because it’s unstoppable. A good defender can contest 80% of those attacks with the right positioning and timing. The problem is the remaining 20% that happens by chance. A perfect pass that teleports the striker right next to you, less than a centimeter from the ball, and you get zero input interaction window. No time to react, no outfield dive possible, and sometimes it’s followed immediately by a bicycle kick that registers from an impossible angle. You can only reduce how often it happens, not eliminate it.
With higher level play it gets worse, not better. Double missiles, coordinated timing, the same pattern repeated until the defender makes one late input or the RNG lines up. The game becomes a loop of the same attack until someone wins the lottery.

Luck favors those who put themselves in position to receive it. But when the game is decided more by how many times you run the same play than by who reads it better, that’s not depth. That’s attrition.

[warm summit]

To say "it sucks that you enjoyed that." That's bizarre

I had fun yeah it was a blast

[signal scaffold]

its not the actual objective strength between attack and defense that is my issue, it's the amount of effort/skill required to gain the value of that strength that is my issue

[warm summit]

I see what you're saying

[warm summit]

Attacking in the game should feel easier and stronger than defending in my opinion

It should be an attack centric game

Considering it has no offsides, it identified as non stop action arcade

It's an aggressive game

[signal scaffold]

I would agree that attack should have a higher max potential of strength, but that shouldnt just come more easily

you should have to earn that value

otherwise you are losing to worse players than you

[warm summit]

Okay well I'm all for making these moves require more skill for sure

[signal scaffold]

and that feels bad

[warm summit]

But what they did was just cut it out entirely

I would love more skill expression

Instead they just turned it into a bum leg. You can't use it really ever

You lose the interaction 90 percent of the time

Even if there are no defenders around you

[signal scaffold]

do you have any clips because my friends havent really been having that experience and they DO volley rainbow a lot

I can see its worse than it was, but I dont see it as extremely as you do

[warm summit]

I agree, and if you look at my post https://discord.com/channels/1055140456184426607/1488288179600621628 you'll see that I also find that the game feels a lot more like attrition currently than depth

[warm summit]

I do not have clips, sorry friend :(

[signal scaffold]

"Not because they broke the game, but because they looked unfamiliar to players who hadn’t learned to deal with them yet." Imo you shouldnt have to learn to read moves that move the ball without touching it.

[signal scaffold]

damn

[warm summit]

All I know is that the game felt most fun and exciting when the game had high imbalance, tons of room for creative decisions, and lots of intentionality despite the admitted exploitable mechanics. And it was the players who couldn't carve out a space for themselves in that landscape that complained the most at that time

[signal scaffold]

on this; v-dash felt unfair even if you learned how to counter it. Because it's just counter intuitive to how the rest of the game works

[signal scaffold]

It felt more exciting as an attacker for sure, it felt more random as a defender.

they have reduced so much randomness and now I feel like my skill in defense is rewarded. However I do agree that if they can find a way to keep that reward for skillful defence, and add more skillful attack, the game will feel better

and the devs agree

they said in the latest patch notes that they do want to see a little more goals per match than we currently see

[warm summit]

I'm only saying they could have brought more power to defenders without hurting attackers power that much

[signal scaffold]

but that increase shouldnt come at the cost of rewarding skilful defence

[warm summit]

Defense should feel as intentional and as sharp, but it should also remain more difficult and less strong than attacking

[signal scaffold]

I hope they do, but I dont believe that its as easy as tuning down attack. So short term this is what we have, and long term hopefully we see that shift back a little

[last pivot]

It was indeed very good, way better than what we have now, or even in Patch 9. Even tho we got more moves now.

[warm summit]

The game isn't about balanced play

It's about refreshing energy

[warm summit]

Well tuning down attack is all they keep doing lol

[signal scaffold]

It was better before because there were more ways to move the ball in ways that were either unreadable, unreactable, or desynced the ball's visual location to it's hitbox

all of those feel unfair on the receiving end

despite how good they feel to do

[last pivot]

Not really

[warm summit]

I think it's fine for them to feel unfair on the receiving end in that moment, and if that is the case, the answer is to give the receiving end more tools

Instead of limit the attacking end

But I'm just repeating myself now lol

[signal scaffold]

Yeah I understand where you are coming from

I disagree on the feeling unfair part, but not much use in continuing to explain our viewpoints

I think we both just disagree and thats okay

[warm summit]

I mean that they could stand to not view it as such a red alert need to fix immediately issue.

[warm summit]

For sure for sure

[signal scaffold]

I can understand that

I think if you dont update things regularly enough you fall into the issue of people complaining that they arent doing enough. So it's a difficult situation to please everyone

not everyone will enjoy the way the game is being developed

there are things that I liked better before, and things that I like much better now

[last pivot]

In real time you can’t slow the game down to analyze the details. The judgment of “moving without touching” is not based on a visual impression during play, when you record and review frame by frame you notice it, but that’s not how the game is experienced. And Bex we’ve already discussed the hitbox in details above.

And if this is the issue “visuals” the solution was never to remove the move. Improve the animation so the player visibly moves toward the ball faster and collects it in a smooth way. Adopt the mechanic, don’t delete it over something that could’ve been fixed with better visuals.

[signal scaffold]

I think I do partially agree, at least I would like to try a version of the game where v dash is possible but just way less egreious than it was

see how much that visual descrepency impacts the game

but generally, if any method of collecting the ball from outside the players expected reach exists, it will cause desync issues

until they make a way to keep the ball's hitbox as it moves into a players posession

sorry if im not making sense

[last pivot]

How exactly would that cause or increase desync?

[signal scaffold]

my example above

as soon as the ball is in my posesson, the ball no longer has a hitbox

but if a defender hits the ball while I am grabbing it, they will recieve feedback for tackling the ball

yet teh game will ignore it due to the rollback of the attacker now posessing the ball in a different location to the balls visual location

this is why you get rollback tackles

to counter a v dash you need to tackle the player, not the ball, which is counter intuitive because it's not where the ball is when you tackle

I think it even gets worse than that, I have a theory that if you get a rollback tackle by hitting the ball when it's already been grabbed by another player, your tackle no longer has any effect for that action.

I have had slide tackles go completely through a player's hitbox, and it does nothing

I think thats because your client has detected you hitting the ball, which stops your tackles hurtbox from affecting anything after

methods that collect the ball from further away increase the instances of this desync

one example here, the GK slid, which I believe uses the same logic as the slide tackle

I call them ghost tackles

[last pivot]

That’s actually a separate issue from the mechanics themselves. The moment the ball turns yellow the hitbox transfers from the ball to the player, that’s how the game is built at a system level. Attacking the mechanics instead of the system is either a sign of not understanding how it works, or knowing exactly how it works and just not wanting to deal with it. Those aren’t the same thing as wanting fair play. The same person complaining about V-dash might be wasting time in a 3v3 with their team. And Im sure even in freeplay you’d see the same behavior with that tackle scenario, which I mentioned a counter for earlier.

[signal scaffold]

another example on an older patch

it causes the player grabbing the ball to lose ability to move their character during this, I believe it's because the game thinks they are stumbling, like when you slide tackle an outfield player who doesnt have the ball and they jump over you

but they actually do have the ball

[last pivot]

The ball went behind him, that was not a ghost tackle.

[signal scaffold]

The ball was pulled behind him and he missed because the balls hitbox no longer exists, I talked to honored one after this match and he said that his movement got locked

just like other ghost tackle instances

[last pivot]

old patch... It was way worse before but mainly fixed.

[signal scaffold]

I dont really have many recent examples because I stopped trying to slide tackle from behind because I dont want to ghost tackle lmao

and I get it, thats how the game works, and thats an issue that should be solved, but its made way worse by moves that trick defenders into tackling a ball that will not have a hitbox

it feels shit

we should move towards moves that feel fair but are still effective
I do agree that there has been way more instances of removing effective attacking methods than there has been additions to the attacking toolset

but I dont think thats a valid excuse to keep mechanics that feel bad or unintuitive to counter

without v-dash and stance grab, if a player is able to dribble past me now, it's because they were better than me

rather than because I tackled a ball that doesnt actually exist where it visually appears on my screen

thats the whole point of rollback netcode, to make sure that what is visible on your screen is whats happening on the server

wont say any more, hope I have been making sense, kinda rambled a bit

[inner storm]

Ranked is killing this game make it where bronzes play against bronzes not bronzes play against ELITES

[last pivot]

⚠️ Warning: Take a deep breath before you start reading this. It’s a long one.

That situation is rare, and you learn to read it quickly. I figured out how the ball hitbox works, how tackle assist behaves, and how rollback affects interactions within the first few weeks. You don’t need a thousand hours to understand that. Yes, it’s frustrating sometimes, but no server-based online game is completely free from desync. That’s just the reality. The real issue was never the mechanics. It was the underlying system, especially hitbox behavior.

“Hitbox visual discrepancy.” From what I’ve seen it mainly happens against Ipy or stance grab. The chance of that same situation happening against a V-dash is extremely low. I’ve honestly never seen it happen, and in most cases trying to force that interaction would actually put you at more risk instead of giving you an advantage. That is why good dribblers utilize stance grab more in close 1v1 situations.

I’ve mentioned possible solutions for this several times already. What confuses me more is the developers themselves. I try not to judge them too harshly because they might have information or a long-term vision that we don’t see. But their patch decisions often contradict the ideas written in their own patch notes.

Take V-dash and the grab mechanics. They had problems at high ping because the netcode made them unreliable. The devs knew that and actually worked on improving them. Then this patch removes them completely, even though they were the ones trying to make them work in the first place. That doesn’t feel like a clear design direction. It feels inconsistent.

At the same time they introduced Silver Boost, which is basically an old mechanic coming back in a stronger and easier form. It requires almost no skill or practice compared to what it replaced. The same thing already happened with Golden Boost. It was removed, then later brought back in a more accessible version.

.
Meanwhile some players keep convincing the devs that creative mechanics are the reason the game lost players. That explanation doesn’t really match what actually happened. The bigger problems were:

•  Repetitive gameplay. Missile after missile until something finally goes in.
•  Patches that seem to punish high-level players for no clear reason.
•  Netcode and desync issues that made the early experience rough.
•  A team-based game that forces solo players into matches with random teammates who make them want to uninstall.

The game originally blew up because of highlight moments. Short clips on Tiktok and Youtube showing crazy individual plays. Friends in voice chat hyping each other up after a good goal. Those moments made the game look exciting and skill based. And ironically, many of those moments came from the exact mechanics that have been removed patch after patch.

[last pivot]

Don’t you think you might be a bit biased toward your own perspective, or toward defense in general?

The situation you’re describing is extremely rare. If it happened to you a few times, most players would eventually recognize it and adapt to it.

But what about the attacker’s side?

• Defenders constantly get tackles from very far away with a huge hitbox, and the aim assist sometimes corrects the angle in ways that make no sense. I’ve seen tackles get corrected almost 180°, when the defender clearly missed the direction.
• While rollback netcode ensures the tackle matches the defender’s screen, tackles are mainly counted on the defender side, which means the attacker can take a hit from far away, the disadvantage is real for them too.
• Even an attacker with 12 ping can get hit from ridiculously far away if their opponent has 100 ping. Most players don’t even seem to notice this huge disadvantage!

The difference is that attackers deal with situations like this multiple times every single match.

The issue you’re talking about, on the other hand, is extremely rare and mostly comes from hitbox transitions between mechanics. Yet attackers are the ones who keep getting restricted by these patches.

And now the middle ground is basically gone.

Honestly, it feels like the devs don’t even realize that middle ground existed in the first place. If they had actually played at the highest level, they would know how important that balance was.

.
I said this before, but it’s worth repeating lol:

“Preoccupied with a single leaf, you won’t see the tree. Preoccupied with a single tree, you’ll miss the entire forest.”

Focusing on one rare interaction or one tiny mechanic won’t give you a real sense of balance. You can’t create meaningful balance with such a thin perspective, you need to step back and see the full system in action.

[signal scaffold]

"While rollback netcode ensures the tackle matches the defender’s screen, tackles are mainly counted on the defender side, which means the attacker can take a hit from far away, the disadvantage is real for them too." this has not been my experience. I even did an experiment and used a VPN to artificially inflate my ping to see how it affected tackles. My tackles always registered later than when I play on low ping. And I get rollback tackles WAY more when people are grabbing the ball or doing dribble moves

[last pivot]

Having insane “phantom” range as a laggy defender doesn’t mean it always appears on your screen. What really matters is that it shows up on the attacker’s side, and that’s where the disadvantage happens.

And if you tried being the attacker? You’d run into triple the issues with high ping compared to defense

[signal scaffold]

when I played with 100+ ping, any time someone shot or passed the ball, it left their possession 100ms before their actual animation finished

thats not an advantage

[last pivot]

You’re missing my point.

I was talking about a scenario with a dribbler who has very low ping, like 10, yet still gets tackled from far away because the opponent has 100+ ping.

Although it’s unfair for the dribbler, this is necessary for the game to be playable for the defender. It also shows that your screen as a defender isn’t as “bad” or disadvantaged as you describe.

If smooth play isn’t possible while maintaining balance and fair gameplay, then adding some pardon/correction to the other side is important. Otherwise, actions would lose their meaning entirely.

Like For Honor

[signal scaffold]

If someone has ping, their whole game is delayed, meaning you didn't get tackled from far away, it just took longer for the server to register their action. They still tackled you on their screen.
I agree high ping leads to poor quality gameplay, that's an inevitability. I personally dont think it's an advantage though, otherwise it would be abused in matchmaking.

[latent dust]

to answer the question of did this patch kill rematch's skill ceiling, i have no clue, but it sure took away a lot of people's "Skill" currently in dia 3 and i can count on one hand the amount of times people have been able to successfully connect a pass, people have been to reliant on things like Vexis dashing (or however you write that lmao, bugs that turn into "techs") these things have been so drilled into peoples minds that they have neglected the most basic things possible, im not trying to say that im a great player or something but this game thrives on teamplay and thats what gets you wins, these techs have turned some people into neanderthals the second they touch the ball unfortunately.

[solid anvil]

sure as hell also pissed off a bunch of people on the defensive end too. defense now also takes actual skill instead of getting an auto targeted ground tackle on anyone existing in the same area as you and there are multiple reddit posts and feedback threads in this server complaining about it. its an adjustment on both ends for sure but it never should have been this way to begin with. the base dribble system when this game first released was only good for moving out of the direction of an opponents tackle and thats it. when you give every defender heat seeking ground tackles even just existing next to someone when using standard guardstance dribble moves meant you were getting reemed. this in turn made standard dribble moves practically useless in contested space and rewarded or even incentivized players to try and find nonstandard “emergent” and “exploitative” dribble tactics to try and survive. neither were good for the game in the long term and this patch overall is a step in the right direction to rectify this mistake. it sucks that the current state of the game feels so much worse than it used to but this is the best we can do when their foundations were so flawed to begin with. and hopefully as the community adjusts to the new defense and offense, more dribble movesets and improvements to the movement system can be added to make the game feel better in future

also for the last part of your statement “these techs have turned some people into neanderthals the second they touch the ball” same for plat, diamond, champ level players in rocketleague. “duuhhh im plat but i can flip reset 1 in every 50 tries” or “i can airdribble as a diamond is that good?” and its like standard start from midfield where its barely off the ground before reaching the net but they happened to follow close to the ball

there are always going to be complete dumbasses and absolute knuckleheads who dont know what the hell they are doing, see something cool and want to replicate it, but dont understand when to use it why it works or why people at higher levels are successful with it. that by itself doesnt make a mechanic bad for a game though thats flawed thinking

[crimson sundial]

Frrrrr

[last pivot]

t’s not just that “your whole game is delayed.” The important part is how the server resolves interactions when there’s a ping difference.

When you have high ping, your inputs reach the server late. To compensate for that, the server doesn’t simply ignore your action ~~ it often evaluates your tackle based on an earlier moment in time (from your perspective).

So what happens is:

• On your screen, you see the attacker in a certain position and press tackle.
• Because of your ping, that input reaches the server later.
• The server then checks whether the tackle would have hit the attacker at the moment you pressed it, not at the current moment.

Now from the attacker’s side:

• He already made the right read and moved away.
• On his screen he is clearly out of range.
• But the server can still validate the tackle based on that earlier state.

So for him it looks like he got tackled from far away.

That’s why this isn’t just “delay.” It’s about how lag compensation or rollback resolves interactions between two different timelines.

And yes, high ping is usually a disadvantage overall. But in these specific close-range dribbling situations it can still create interactions where the attacker gets punished even after making the correct play.

Most games apply this asymmetrically: defensive tackles are given priority in the server’s reconciliation logic because they’re seen as “critical” for keeping the game responsive for defenders. Meanwhile, offensive moves like dribbling require precise timing, and when the server favors the defender’s delayed input, it effectively nullifies the attacker’s successful read. That’s why the attacker feels punished even when they did everything right.

.

[last pivot]

Definition of “broken” is a mechanic that is dominant, uncounterable, and removes meaningful choices, V-dash never met that bar.

• It had built-in punishment and counters.
• The movement path was predictable, hitbox is bigger.
• It actually made you easier to tackle if you misused it.
• It’s very slow and has medium risk

—

Now about the whole “bug vs mechanic” thing.

That distinction isn’t as simple as people pretend.

Game development is basically a lottery of weird interactions. Some of the deepest mechanics in competitive games started as unintended behavior.

The real question isn’t:
“Did the devs plan it?”

The real question is:
Does it add depth or does it break the game?

Because the devs themselves don’t even have a consistent standard.

• Ippy was called weird and broken even though it was very useless early on > later it became accepted by the devs.

• Golden Boost got removed > then came back easier and more accessible.

• Same with Silver Boost > which came back this season and it’s easier and stronger than any other tech.

So clearly the line between “exploit” and “mechanic” isn’t as clear as people claim.

So no, it wasn’t uncounterable.
It just required the defender to read the play.

And most importantly: it added choices instead of removing them.

For God’s sake, we are not playing rock paper scissors!!!!!!!!

—

And the teamplay argument is even weaker.

Yes, Rematch is a team game.

But that doesn’t mean individual skill expression should disappear.

If a player is genuinely better than you, you should struggle against them in a 1v1.
That’s literally what a skill ceiling is.

Otherwise every match just becomes:

“who has better passing coordination, missile abuser, passive and safer play”.

No individual outplays.
No creativity.
Just system play.

And if we apply this same logic to other games, it sounds ridiculous.

Take Overwatch for example.
That would be like saying: remove all DPS characters because the game is “team-based”, so everyone should just play tanks and healers.

Teamplay and individual skill are not opposites.
Good competitive games have both.

——
And here’s the reality people ignore:

Good attackers still lost the ball constantly against good defenders.

If attackers were truly unstoppable like people claim, we’d see one player soloing entire tournaments.

That almost never happens.

What actually happened is simpler.

Some defenders got exposed by V-dash and didn’t want to learn the counter.

So instead of adapting, they called it broken.

That’s not a balance issue.

That’s a mindset issue.

,

[signal scaffold]

I wont go in circles rehashing what I've said, I do understand your points.
I just dont agree on v-dash not being broken. You are correct I dont enjoy learning counters to moves in the game that are counter intuitive.

Game should continue to follow basic rules of physics as much as possible, if I hit the ball, the ball should move. Anything other than that is frustrating, regardless of how effective that move actually is, it feels bad to lose to because the game isn't working the way you anticipate.
And I agree, there are other aspects of the game that work this way too, however v-dash and stance grab were the worst offenders.

Ultimately, it's not a balance change, it's an anti-frustration change / bug fix. Same as the ippy. There are still a number of highly skilled dribblers in this game that can still find a good amount of success without stance grab and v-dash. It's not 100% consistent, you can still express your skill in the form of dribbling, just at the appropriate time, it's not just a given that you can make progress by manipulating the ball in ways that seem counter to the rest of the games mechanics

[idle rose]

I don't really care about tourney results tbh. Being able to magnet the ball from 3 feet away was jank af. It kind of had to go

[azure obsidian]

If v-dash was so easy to defend that even best attackers lost their 1v1s, then why do you(specifically) care about it's removal? Could it be that you and many others who liked that junky lame "tech" only bc it's easy to abuse against noob players in ranked, bc you're also a noob who can't win 1v1s unless bug abusing?
Also if you guys care so much about expression and skill ceilings then why didn't you or in fact anyone at all make giant walls of text complaining about devs nerfing rainbow flicking, areal pushball, wall juggling? When they did that they didn't even a write a giant essay for it like this time, their official statement for why they are doin it was "it is annoying"(which btw was only annoying bc their horrendous prio system and net code) Could it be bc it wasn't as broken as vexis and it was in fact easy to defend even by noobs?

[solid anvil]

holy fucking larp bro

defense specifically ground defense was extremely over tuned

auto targeting ground tackles absolutely shred the base dribble system even after the patches that revamped it

the way this game went about ground defense for over 90% of patches since launch involved this extreme auto assist as a persistent part of its tool kit

whether this was to make up for crappy netcode, or intentional by developers to make the game feel smoother idfk

but it was a flawed system to work in tandem with the dribble system they pushed out. that dribble system, and it works the exact same way right now, was only good for moving out of the way of a defending players tackle. so when the game makes this tackle a heat seeking missile, just existing in the same space as an opposing player while having possession of the ball was extremely punishing

to get around this fact, the player base has had 9 fucking months to break apart the game engine and figure out “emergent” or “exploitative” dribble mechanics whatever you wanna call it but literally anything they can to make ground play in congestion even remotely viable

this game at it foundations is flawed. the changes made to both dribbling and defense suck but are probably how this game should have started out with on launch. one side is pissed off about having spent over half a year practicing and developing muscle memory for a sub-skillset that doesnt even exist anymore, and the other is upset because they now have to put in work and build up skill in something that used to barely take any

[solid anvil]

both are valid in their own rights, but one is objectively more flawed than the other and your arguments in particular show that you understand the game less than the other guy.

at the end of the day we’re back to missile meta but worse and i hate all of you

[pallid hill]

This patch turned the game into one where it’s basically about spamming the tackle button, and 1v1 play has lost its value.

Encouraging team play is good, but the game still has a lot of issues, especially with the servers. With this patch, if you want to be consistent in 1v1 situations, you need to be precise, but the delay makes that nearly impossible.

Even with good ping, the server often doesn’t reflect what you see on your screen. In the end, the game doesn’t reward precision, just spamming tackles and making passes.

[solid anvil]

does anyone ever think about how tackles are most effective once the ball is closest to box?

at most all you can do as a defender in the midfield or further out is apply pressure and force the player possession to pass the ball

you can either force a rushed crappy pass that your teammate can intercept or completely restrict all options to move forward and force them to reset

tackling is at its most effective when the ball is close to or inside box when a player is attempting to take a shot

if you make better choices per the situation you will find more success in general

just to summarize

out in field

ball can be relieved from a player in 360° of play with all of those options having the potential to be effective

in scoring range

[jaunty thorn]

Complain match

Goddddd

[solid anvil]

goalside is the most common direction to defend from and therefore much easier to tackle as a player loads up either a shooting or passing animation and there’s a clear point of release the ball is guaranteed to originate from

and its never a 1v1 in box if you arent the goalkeeper. just fucking kite and force the player with possession to an obvious direction that another teammate can punish

like holy shit

[jaunty thorn]

Skill issue

[solid anvil]

deadass

[pallid hill]

I get what you're saying, and I actually agree that tackling should be situational and that team positioning matters. That’s something I was already doing before the patch.

But that’s not really my point. I’m not talking about 1v1s inside the box, I mean 1v1 situations across the whole field.

With this patch, tackles are wider and more forgiving, which makes defending easier even without team support. At the same time, offensive tools that allowed players to beat opponents were removed.

If it was already hard to play precisely before due to server delay, now it’s even worse:
you have fewer attacking options, tackles are buffed, and the game still doesn’t respond properly.

The result is that the game no longer rewards individual skill and becomes repetitive. The most consistent way to score now is through passing plays much more than before, because taking players on in 1v1 is no longer reliable.

[solid anvil]

less options offensively agreed

the game is slower paced less options for mind games and overall not as fun of an experience

it will take the overall player base a while to adjust to something they should have started with and otherwise had 9months to practice with defensively when offenses have had just as much time to develop their own skillsets that still exist and so there is also that intrinsic imbalance between offense and defense atm

even with that difference though the entire offense tool kit outside of punishing a defender for low stam or having used extra effort too early is getting them to bite at bait

every option is a bait that if a defender just doesnt bite at then no progress can be made

https://medal.tv/games/rematch/clips/moaIeCNEVYZ1YF-O6

case in point

if instead of spamming tackle the dude just sits there with guard stance my actions are much less effective and i have to use more resources as a corrective measure to maintain possession

rather than what we used to have with simple extra effort combos where i realistically could have used extra effort, rainbow input, rainbow input, and enabled my teammate for a passing play just because i retained that resource that close to box

and that was something i could have done only something like 5 patches ago

now though even something that simple ends up with me having to wait until the ball bounces nearly twice before i can interact with it again after the first rainbow leaving a MASSIVE window for punishment

[pallid hill]

Personally, the main issue isn’t just the current balance, but the lack of consistency in game responsiveness due to client-server delay.

Timing-based actions, such as dribbling or quick ball interaction, don’t feel reliable, even with good ping. There’s a clear desync between what the player sees and what the server validates, which creates inconsistent punishment windows.

Even with the current limitations in offensive options, the gameplay would feel much better if precise inputs were consistently rewarded. In its current state, the lack of reliability significantly reduces skill expression.

[azure obsidian]

rainbow one noone gave a shit about bc it wasn't as broken as the vexis one. your argument shows that you didn't get the point that I was making, which is this guys entire post is him crashing out and crying about the changes is only bc he was using vexis and he is pretending that he cares about skill expression and ceilings

also missile meta was always there and still is bc it's the easiest way to score a goal in this game and the comp players are doing it for the money, so they are gonna find those metas and use them unless devs make them harder to do

[modest crest]

Vexis was never broken

[solid anvil]

reading comprehension of a kindergartener

i literally address what the cause of his frustration is in my post while expressing how the game was flawed at its foundations and we never should have reached this point

[azure obsidian]

true that

for you

unfortunately

[solid anvil]

brother i bring up ee rainbow only a whole HOUR AFTER MY RESPONSE TO YOU

completely separate conversations

[loud dawn]

Man, you guys really enjoyed debating about this, it’s bigger than any threads I’ve ever made, insane. lol

[azure obsidian]

I'm sorry I didn't know you can't read and have short term memory loss

I won't argue with you anymore

[last pivot]

No one is defending that.

even the fixed dash where your body had to be aligned with the ball and no extra range was used was removed.

If the issue is with the visuals, then it should be fixed, not removed. Things like hitbox discrepancy should be addressed properly.

And regarding the ball drag, it should have received minor fixes and balance adjustments, not a full removal without anything else to compensate for it.

If the problem was the drag range or the hitbox interaction, then it was never really about the tech itself. Even without any tech, these issues would still appear during normal gameplay.

They could also improve things by making the player’s body move faster toward the ball when collecting it.

Removing the mechanic doesn’t fix the underlying system. It just hides the problem, flattens the gameplay even more, and kills creativity.

Honestly, I think a lot of the people complaining about tech visuals or minor issues and demanding removal instead of fixes simply don’t want to learn how to deal with it or how to use it. Either they tried and failed, they just blame other players and the game instead of themselves. They’ll do anything except admit they failed.

The funny part is that some of them even lie. They say the move is “very easy to counter” and that they already mastered it… but at the same time they want the devs to remove it.

And when you check their profile on the leaderboard, you often find their stats are terrible and their win rate is very low, Diamond or Master players and most of the time they have a lot of hours in the game, like 300+.

[last pivot]

About defense and tackle assist:

The only defenders who really got hurt by the assist system were the bad ones. Their “job” was just to wait for the attacker to step into range and press tackle, even if the attacker predicted and changed direction it didn’t matter.

Good defenders never relied on tackle assist. They complained that it changed the angle of their hits, wasted momentum, and sometimes sent the ball the wrong way.

With the dash, the range and hitbox got bigger, so good defenders got even stronger, while the bad ones just revealed their real skill level. Anyone complaining about this shows how toxic the community is and how little they acknowledge anything that raises the skill ceiling.

⸻

About the base dribble system:

Yes, its main function was to just move out of the direction of an opponent’s tackl, but the issue wasn’t just the assist.

Even if assist was removed completely, defense is still very strong because of:

• Huge hitbox of the attacker
• Huge hitboxes for tackles
• Passive defenders
• Simple dribble moves don’t put defenders in danger; they actually benefit them
• Add lag and high ping, plus phantom range on tackles that depends on the defender’s screen, and the system becomes extremely inconsistent. Third, about the base dribble system and what actually allowed skill expression:

The only way for attackers to truly show skill was through movement combos that let their player move quickly in multiple directions. The best example was Patch 1 (push cut combo). Even though I joined the game way later, it’s clear that this allowed attackers to pressure passive defenders while respecting spacing, even within a flawed system, it was a useful balancing tool.

.

In duel-based games (like fighting games or Souls), it’s not a fixed “attacker vs. defender” situation, both players are dueling. Moving inside your opponent’s zone and pulling out wasn’t just about forcing a passive player to move; it was about creating a dynamic where you could pressure them into either retreating or committing to an attack. And crucially, the opponent had a way to avoid your attack through reaction. That created a balance between aggressive and passive play, preventing the game from turning into a collection of turtles waiting for the other to lose patience and move first. This is exactly what Rematch is missing right now.

—----

About emergent techs:

“Players were incentivized to find nonstandard emergent or exploitative tactics because the base dribble system was weak.”

• The contradiction is: if the base system was weak and player innovations were solutions, why remove those innovations instead of improving the system?

Player creativity added depth to the game. Removing it before fixing the system doesn’t make the game better, it reduces options and creativity.

[trim cosmos]

Larp lost its meaning

💔

[pallid hill]

Defense is completely broken right now lmao

[last pivot]

I’ve been doing this for a long time to counter drag shots.

You know what was actually broken? When someone took a free shot in front of you, most people would normally guess and tackle left or right to try to cover part of the net and block the shot.

But the funny thing was that tackling straight ahead was actually more effective, because the auto-tackle would end up covering both sides for you anyway.

[pallid hill]

game broken

[solid anvil]

larp or roleplay as in pretending, like pretending he knows what he’s talking about lol

[crimson sundial]

We cannot ignore that the dribbling mechanics we’ve mastered were the very engine of competitiveness and fun in this game. By reducing auto-aim while simultaneously nerfing offensive mobility, the game is dangerously drifting away from its "Arcade" roots, becoming a pale imitation of FIFA where passivity is rewarded. This isn’t just about preference; it’s about systemic consistency. As previously discussed, the current hitbox system is inherently punishing for attackers: the moment the ball is at your feet, your entire player model becomes a massive target for "phantom tackles" and inconsistent collisions, whether in live matches or even free play.
The issue goes deeper when analyzing how the server resolves latency. By systematically favoring the defender through lag compensation and rollback logic, the game punishes attackers who have actually made the "right read." If a high-ping defender can land a tackle based on a past state while the attacker has already moved away on their screen, it effectively kills any incentive for reactive play. In this context, "Push Ball" becomes a survival necessity to separate the player’s hitbox from the ball’s, rather than a creative tool for outplaying opponents.
By limiting these mechanics under the guise of realism or teamwork, we are creating a boring meta where both sides just stare at each other, afraid to commit because passive defense is now overpowered. A great competitive game must balance teamplay with individual expression. Removing the skill gap of dribbling is like removing DPS characters from a hero shooter; it leaves us with a slow, frustrating simulation. Developers need to decide: will they listen to "tourist" players who are just passing through, or will they respect the hardcore community that sustains the game and is ready to play until the servers go dark? We shouldn't let netcode issues (ping, hitboxes) and a lowered skill ceiling dictate the future of our gameplay.

It is deeply frustrating to see developers choosing to let their game’s soul wither away by catering to the complaints of casual players, rather than addressing the bugs that are multiplying every single day. By stripping away the depth of dribbling in the name of "balance," the game is shedding its arcade identity to become a hollow FIFA clone where passivity is rewarded. These mechanics were essential: they created a genuine skill gap and allowed players to compensate for a hitbox system that is fundamentally unfair to attackers.
The issue is now systemic. As we’ve analyzed, the server consistently favors defenders through lag compensation that validates physically impossible tackles. Instead of fixing these inconsistencies and stabilizing the netcode, the developers are lowering the skill ceiling to satisfy a transient audience. This is a losing strategy: you are sacrificing the hardcore community—the ones who will stay until the servers go dark—just to please players who will have uninstalled the game in two months. An arcade sports game must remain a playground for individual skill. If the priority is to punish skill instead of fixing collision and network bugs, then you are simply condemning your own creation to fail.

[pallid hill]

The problem isn’t just balance, it’s direction. The game keeps introducing changes that break core mechanics instead of fixing long-standing issues like hitboxes, netcode, or defensive consistency. After almost a year, it still feels unstable. At the same time, there’s a clear focus on monetization and collaborations, while fundamental gameplay problems remain. That disconnect is what frustrates players the most.

[crimson sundial]

Frrrrrr

[idle rose]

IMO
what we have now is better than the tech that was broken

Expecting players to know what netcode is and how it affects time and space in the game world is too much to ask of everyone except the sweatiest of hardcore players

Especially in terms of using that knowledge in real time

I think we should stop differentiating between casual and competitive when it comes to basic controls and focus more on does it play well?

[last pivot]

It’s so broken... every time I enter their zone, it feels like I’m stepping into a Domain Expansion with guaranteed hits lol

[jaunty thorn]

Omg its like you have to actually dribble and not just abuse iframes

Whaaaat people when they're touching feet with you hit the ball

Noooooooo

Impossible

[south dune]

"iframes"

https://tenor.com/view/bro-just-typing-shit-bro-just-typing-shit-gif-18336060238854257551

[jaunty thorn]

A lot of dribbling "tech" (bugs") move the ball to where its visually not

Also some used to literally have iframes where you could not be hit if you did it enough

[south dune]

That's still a live hitbox

Even if it's on the body

[jaunty thorn]

Still a bug and busted

[last pivot]

You know who would complain first if something was truly broken? Hardcore players. They feel it immediately when their skill gets invalidated, like with time-wasting in 3v3 or auto-tackle and auto-save exploits.

Players don’t need to understand what netcode is to use or counter a mechanic effectively. Most players don’t know anything about latency models or rollback logic, they just learn the timing and behavior through experience. In many competitive games, players discover ways to deal with imperfect systems without understanding the technical reason behind them. They simply feel what works and adapt to it.

Tech usually appears because the system itself has inconsistencies, strange hitboxes, lag compensation, auto-assist, or limited movement. Players experiment and find ways to work around those problems.

Removing those interactions doesn’t fix the root issue, it just reduces player options and lowers the skill ceiling.

[jaunty thorn]

Nah having broken hitboxes and fixing them does inheritly fix skill issues because it's not on the player if the hitbox is in your ass but they hit where it looks like it SHOULD be

Also bugs being fixed doesn't remove anything it forces people to actually be good at existing mechanics rather than spam overpowered bugs that werent intended

[idle rose]

No, it fixes the root issue. Now that magnet jank is gone sloclap can actually get around to putting new things in.

Hardcore players are the last ones to complain about this being broken because it was broken consistently and could be used to gain an advantage.

Everybody else stopped at the fact the basic controls had magnetism jank at all

[last pivot]

Fixing a specific interaction doesn’t automatically fix the root issue if the underlying system still behaves the same way.

If the goal is real consistency, then the focus should be fixing the underlying unbalanced system, not just removing specific techs that players discovered while adapting to it.

Also, Vexis dash is still possible, and another unintended mechanics has already emerged this week. As long as the underlying system is unbalanced, players will continue to adapt, and new emergent mechanics will continue to emerge.

[idle rose]

my problem was the 3 foot magnet that sucked the ball to your feet from far away. Have all the cool techs you want but you should at least have to touch the ball to do them

[last pivot]

.

[last pivot]

Is this 3 feet ?!

[last pivot]

If this is 3 feet how much is this?

[last pivot]

Keep in mind this is in offline mode, so there’s 0 ping and no extra range.
Now what about online matches?

[last pivot]

Why don’t I see people complaining about this if it’s so visually obvious?

I thought you were super detail-oriented. Why the double standard here?

[idle rose]

The double standard is that you and I both played patch 9 and know that in patch 9 you could vexis the ball from 3 feet away

[last pivot]

It was only one variation, and the range was around 0.5–1 foot at most. You can still do it in patch 10 anyway. So all they really removed were the honest ones, even when your foot was actually on the ball.

The double standard is that you want your defender’s hitbox and tackle to cover half the field, but when the opponent drags the ball, suddenly both of his feet have to be perfectly on it for it to count.

So basically you want the attacker’s hitbox to be big when he gets hit, but tiny when he’s dragging the ball.

[idle rose]

It was 3 feet. Touching the ball to vexis it is fine but handling the ball at distance was not

[crimson sundial]

Rematch est en train de mourir.

[idle rose]

In that picture, sure

[last pivot]

That is almost the highest it can get.

[idle rose]

In patch 10 probably

[last pivot]

ironically in patch 10 you can actually pull it from even further, people just haven’t mastered it yet.

[last pivot]

This one is from patch 9, you can check the boost

[idle rose]

Yeah that's gotta go I don't like that magneting

[last pivot]

PATCH 10

[last pivot]

Good

50 downvotes and I’ll upload a tutorial. ✅

[last pivot]

Since this one is patched

[pallid hill]

no puedo creer que Sloclap organice torneos en un juego tan bugeado

[deep jewel]

I don’t understand what you’re trying to showcase here

[last pivot]

I don’t have enough ATP to write or explain anymore

[winged raft]

He is showing forward magnet

Forward magnet is buffed patch 10 while all the other ones got removed

[regal ibex]

yeah i find it weird

so here is my opinion i played high comp rematch and was an top dribbler, i thinking removing the mechanics this patch has lead to less possibilites in an duel with an defender, the only reason you get past defenders now is due to the tackle change which is good. but now with the removal of v-dash and other magnetism techs there is less ways for you to attack an defender and bait them. i will now go through all the techs that were removed this patch. 1. V-dash, this was probably the number 1 mos versatile move in the game allowing for nutmegs, baiting defender, quicker movement in the field, removing this has led to less ways to bait an defender into making an decison. 2. The Ed-boy, you may not know this move but this move allowed you to move vertically fast which allowed for better breakthrough opportunities while waisting little EE. 3. The Flash step with an ippy pullback, this move still exist but due the recent patch it is less consistent than before which makes it the last move in the game to bait defenders, but now is harder to due consistently due to the magnetism acting weird sometimes. So with all this being said i understand that these moves were glitchy and def unintentionally but now with these moves gone there is imbalance in the ways you can dribble your almost forced to A spam and pushcut, to due any dribbiling now which to me sucks because its not how i enjoy dribbiling, but i will learn the new patch. So at the end of the day they need to add more dribling moves before removing other. I also think the hit box system needs an rework becuase i still dont understand how some things hit me sometimes. i also think we need some sort of speed buff after you bait an defender because rn after you beat them all they have to due is EE slide which is really stupid and boring.

[raw cobalt]

I feel super frustrated with this patch. the magnetism from the ball works awfully. it's like the ball decide in wich foot ends. they tweak stamina ? because I'm playing exactly the same but cost me a lot to comeback. 1 v 1 is even mor buggy the tackles don't connect. or bounce in weird ways ending on the feet of the tackled one. idk like I read more up. is getting annoying the constant retouch. the last patch was quite OK there was no need of tweek so much. now animations gets in the middle of plays. it's just weird and frustrating . watch out solclap, was going well but people is getting mad...remember this game is not even free so if you loose what you have bow. you loose it all

[last pivot]

@late tiger @devout beacon @static violet @vernal girder

I’ve stepped away from Rematch. Not out of frustration alone, but because I’d rather leave than watch a game I genuinely love get dismantled by decisions that don’t address what’s actually broken. I’m writing this because I still care, and because someone has to say it clearly.

Sloclap has struggled with balance across every format, and the results speak for themselves:

∙ 3v3? Time wasting.
∙ 1v1? Push-ball simulator.
∙ 5v5? Where do I even start… five-man boxes with auto-block. Good luck finding a decent angle to shoot from.

And don’t get me started on attacker vs defender situations. Sloclap gave attackers slow, basic dribble moves and punished them with huge hitboxes to tackle, while defenders get insane tackle assist, massive hitboxes, and can just go passive on top of that. Even after all these new techs emerged, passive defending is still stronger.

How were we even supposed to dribble when the game was first designed? Spam flick shots, push the ball left and right, and just hope for a miracle to happen? Seriously.

Almost every balance change this past year followed the same pattern: nerf anything that requires skill, leave the broken fundamentals untouched, the hitboxes, the passive play, all of it still sitting exactly where it was. What got removed? The things that actually require practice and skill to execute.

That’s not balance.

The core issue is a fundamental design flaw: doing nothing is objectively stronger than doing something. Attackers have no tools to counter a tackle. No dodge, no timing window, nothing. The defender doesn’t need to read the play. They just need to be close enough for the hitbox to do the work. That’s not defense. That’s automation. And the attacker is being penalized for trying to play the game.

.
I don't care about Vexis or any other tech. I stopped playing long ago, only returning to see what had changed, and I’ve already taken my leave. I shared this feedback not for myself, but because I love this game. I don’t want it to crumble from poor decisions; I want it to grow, to be more balanced, more fun, and more enduring, for those who play now, and for those who come after.

What I don’t understand is the double standard. People obsess over tiny visual discrepancies when attackers interact with the ball, yet completely ignore massive tackle hitboxes that regularly connect without contact, or how tackles register on the defender’s screen, giving them huge range and an unfair advantage over dribblers. If the real concern is visual consistency, then the standard should apply to the entire system, not just offensive tech, which, as I’ve explained above, precisely 389 messages above this one, wouldn’t even be effective.

The number is made up.

Not only is the system flawed, but the community is also part of the problem. Instead of helping the devs understand what is actually wrong, many people just post emotional complaints like: “The game is bad,” “Fix your game,” “Lazy devs,” or “Remove the exploit.” And some, like what Bex did, focus on the worst possible example of a mechanic, then generalize it to every variation that has nothing to do with it, claiming everything is broken without showing the full picture or providing any real data.

Most of the time they complain about the 10% disadvantage they experience while ignoring the 90% disadvantage their opponent might have in the same interaction. They highlight that 10% and ask the devs to shift the balance entirely in their favor, turning their opponent’s disadvantage into 100%, and then call that fairness.

What they’re really asking for is to turn the game from chess into rock-paper-scissors, where the player who makes the first move is automatically at a disadvantage.

That’s not honest feedback.

,,

Developers are a bit like blind painters. They can create a masterpiece, but sometimes they need someone beside them describing what is actually on the canvas so they understand what they have painted. Yet in reality, they’re surrounded by a shouting crowd, each person describing a different color. Trying to make sense of every sound in the middle of this storm would leave them painting chaos instead of a coherent masterpiece.

Players act as mirrors, but the problem is some mirrors are concave, exaggerating small flaws into disasters, while others are convex, hiding the true beauty. Only a few mirrors reflect the painting accurately. By focusing on these correct reflections, developers can truly understand what has been created and how to improve it.

Even though I’m frustrated with the devs for repeatedly damaging parts of their own game, I also know that this situation is not entirely their fault.

The pride of any competitive game lies in its skill ceiling, how mastery looks, how high the ceiling goes, and how brutal the competition to reach it is. That’s what builds a game’s legacy. Not the pursuit of simplicity. Removing skill expression doesn’t make the game more competitive, it makes it forgettable.

So here’s what I’m asking for: Stop blaming techs. We need more moves, more skills, more variations, not less. Instead of expanding the skill ceiling, every patch has been chipping away at it, nerfing things that needed nothing more than a small animation or range fix.

The solutions were always there: speed up the animation, align the player-ball touch naturally, adjust the range. Simple fixes that preserve the mechanic without breaking the game.

Start looking at the defensive system, the hitboxes, the passive play. That’s where the real imbalance lives.

And for the community: stop shouting emotional complaints. Provide data, provide context, and be honest about what’s actually broken.

The game deserves better than this.

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Most feedback fails because it targets symptoms, not the disease. To show the difference between shouting and solving, I’m proposing a layered system that addresses the 3v3 stalling meta at its root:

,

—————-Anti-Stall System————

Layer 1: Match Clock (Leading Team Only)

Problem:
The leading team can form a possession triangle with both defenders and the goalkeeper, making it extremely difficult for the trailing team to apply pressure. This allows safe stalling while the clock runs.

Rule:
If the leading team holds possession for more than 30 seconds anywhere on the field, the match clock pauses until the trailing team recovers the ball.

Additional:
A surrender option should be available for the trailing team. If the score gap makes a comeback statistically unrealistic (e.g., 3–0 with very little time left), the trailing team can concede instead of enduring intentional stalling, trolling, or unsportsmanlike behavior.

This option is mainly for extreme situations, such as when the trailing team cannot regain possession for extended periods, or a player has left the match and the team must play with only two players.

⸻

Layer 1.5: Trailing Team Loss Buffer

Problem:
The trailing team may lose possession unintentionally, which the leading team can exploit to delay the 30-second possession timer.

Rule:
A 15-second period starts when the trailing team loses possession.
If the leading team does not take control of the ball within 15 seconds, the ball is considered in their possession and the 30-second timer activates.

This prevents exploitation while keeping the timer fair.

⸻

Layer 2: Goalkeeper Timer (Applies to All Teams)

Problem:
Goalkeepers can stall indefinitely by avoiding interaction until an opposing player approaches.

Rule:
When a goalkeeper touches the ball, a 1-minute timer starts.

• Timer pauses if a teammate touches the ball.
• Timer resets if an opposing player touches the ball.
• Switching goalkeepers does not reset the timer.
• If the full minute passes without an opposing player touching the ball, the goalkeeper cannot touch it until an opposing player does.

Why:
• Even with the match clock paused, players can refuse to pass unless a defender approaches.
• Applying the rule to the entire team prevents exploiting role switches to avoid penalties.

⸻

Layer 3: Forced Possession / Ball Reset (Applies to All Teams)

Problem:
Teams can stall by leaving the ball near the goalkeeper without interaction (To avoid layer2), waiting for opponents to come pressure them before passing.

Rule:

If the ball remains in a team’s half for more than 2 minutes without an opposing player crossing the halfway line, the ball is given to the opposing team to restart play.
Score and match time remain unchanged. (Forced Possession rule)

To prevent exploitation, the timer does not reset if the ball crosses the halfway line; it only stops.

The timer only restarts if an opposing player enters the team’s half or gains possession of the ball.

—————-Anti-Stall System————

@late tiger @devout beacon @static violet @vernal girder