GK is basically dead

[compact obsidian]

I have no idea what was the purpose of nerfing the least liked position in this game. But you didn't just nerf it, you pretty much killed it. It is unreliable, inconsistent, unfun and random. I would understand nerfing the dive range, but you didn't do that, did ya? Whoever took the decision to ruin GKs needs to be fired. They clearly don't play the game.

[rustic atlas]

they actually did nerf the dive range too lol and that was one of the things that actually didnt need to be touched at all. it used to be if you stand dead center and someone at the top of box also dead center shot perfect placement to either side, anyone with decent reaction time could consistently save it and you worked up your understanding of offense and defense from there. there were good visual markers and convenient spacing queues that were reliable in aiding your defense against quick offensive plays but even in pro play there were maybe only 2 or 3 goalkeepers that could consistently shut down meta teams and the best strikers. Now our chances are fuck all without actively guessing which side they’re going to shoot at and anything decently placed goes in unless i pre position myself to that side and leave the other side of my net more exposed. at least before it took actual legitimate skill and i had control over my performance but now its just if i win the lottery for that game and if i win it enough times to last a series. This update is bullshit

[fair heron]

The side dive is literally dead, you cannot save any corner shots anymore no matter how fast you jump

[rustic atlas]

you have to react to the map for shots you used to be able to visually react to and shots you could only consistently save without guessing by reading the map you have to guess at now. shots you could only save by guessing just go in now its great

[fair heron]

I used to see where the shot goes in the first split second after which I'd jump and save. But now that's not possible anymore

[rustic atlas]

if its perfectly placed and you arent prepositioned to that side of the net then yeah it'll just sail on through. And there are players good enough to recognize both the spacing advantage they have and your positioning error so they'll just shoot on the side you leave more open and now you're doubly fucked

my one issue with this whole update is i used to be able to save anything if i was skilled enough

if i was smart enough and challenged and cut off angles or recognized when i needed to sit back on my line there was always a situation in which i could save the shot so if it went in it was just on me

now it just goes in regardless of my skill

i dont know how anyone could remain in this position and actually have fun playing the game. Especially from a casual standpoint it just makes anyone who ends up in the role, even the people with hundreds of hours in it, wanna shoot themselves

[azure badge]

the position should be inconsistent because it's just nonsense if gk holds everything and to be honest gk is still way too dominant in the game and especially with such a weak offense in a game gk shouldn't be able to hold so much

[undone dagger]

wtf are you talking about. do you even play gk?

[azure badge]

I have to play the position more often and as a striker I can see what nonsense it can be if someone is a good goalkeeper but the problem is more that people like you want it to be possible to always catch everything

[glossy plank]

Every day, more and more, I don't understand how to handle other people in this stupid baka world

[undone dagger]

you dont seem to play gk otherwise you'd see the problem. you're just whining cause you seem bad at playing striker. skill issue i guess

[frank cliff]

None of the positions are hard or take a long time to learn

This game is easy it’s just about consistency

Which gk has lost

That’s the issue with goal keeping and the issue with the game

[azure badge]

I only see the problem that there are people like you who are really bad and only play the most boring position and want it to be so that you can constantly catch everything

[undone dagger]

i play all positions and solo grind to Elite but you can keep crying about gk being op even when its nerfed already. what a baby

[azure badge]

cool I also did solo grind up to elite because I always played alone at the front most of the time

[glossy plank]

You're all wrong

I'm the only goat around here ya see

Marverus typing... You're wrong

Light Yagami, amazing username, you're wrong

[frank cliff]

That was tough

[glossy plank]

Football hooligan, mmmmm wrong

Joy random internet man, always right never wrong infallible

Swimming, dripping in right

Oozing with righteous correctness

[azure badge]

and idiot I never cried because of GK as it is now I just don't want to see a buff

[undone dagger]

you are crying. its already nerfed and you dont want it improved. you're a scared baby

[azure badge]

In contrast to you I play all the time in front and do not hide in a net so you have no idea disabled child

[undone dagger]

do you even know how to play football? learn the game first

[rustic atlas]

its doesnt need to be improved it just never needed to be nerfed in the way current patch presents it

[undone dagger]

well yea improved from its current state or revert it back

[rustic atlas]

wouldnt you be pissed the fuck off if you didnt have control over the direction of your inputs and errors you dont have control of result in the most costly mistake in the game

a goal?

[glossy plank]

I think you're all fools

[undone dagger]

that happens so much now i cant dive sideways. everyone seems to be stopping a shot by jumping straight up

[rustic atlas]

like actually

[azure badge]

no idea what you're talking about, for me it always jumps in the right direction that I press, only the animation is rarely strange

[rustic atlas]

screenshot from this server

most often it happens when you rush out and attempt to dive diagonal left or right. This most commonly happens either when defending missiles or shots off the backboard that you rush out to stuff

[glossy plank]

The truth, my beautiful autumn cherubs, is that in order to address the concerns of terrible, skill-less, godless casuals, they dialed the senses of the game from 11 to 2, and as a result, the fundamental approach by which you can feel a sense of reward through the gameplay was narrowed and numbed.

Now, starting to make changes from that sad state of things, they are realizing that any small tweak they make back in the direction they came from will once again, and slowly, creakily, open up hells gates. So they can only go in the direction they're going. They can only make the game less intentional, less responsive, less deep. Because if they go back to where they came from, then they'll have to admit they shouldn't have moved so far away from perfection in the first place.

The GK can only be "improved" if you make him better at catching, his dives faster and his directionality more responsive. If you do that, you'll have to provide more options to strikers and therefore defenders for movement and creativity. And if you do that you'll be at patch 2 again, and everyone will cry about exploits and missile meta and the same people saying "skill issue" now will have "skill issue" said to them tomorrow.

Your game, in its childhood years, can either be this slow, straight-laced, casual, unintentional ego jerk off machine or it can be a glorious, high octane, responsive mess.

You can have a boring Christian marriage or a fun but toxic relationship

Either way, half of these motherfuckers are gonna stay miserable

And beg you to make the game just how they want it and everyone else who can't live in their world just needs to "get good"

But me personally Id rather take the ultra fast dangerous car and crash it into a wall than have to bear some safe and nice marriage

Not in real life, but in my video games lol

[rustic atlas]

only thing im adding to that is we wouldnt have so many brain dead morons screaming for the crucifixion of the ippy slide (which always blows my mind btw for how unimpactful it is compared to other dribble tech out there) if the ranked matchmaking was anything even remotely close to a skill based mm system

it is beyond absurd that someone with 15k+ rp above can get matched against literally actual golds and silvers

like global top 100 players consistently matching against little timmy with maybe 2 hours max in the game

no fucking wonder there was such a widespread outcry about emergent mechanics and complaining about "exploits" that take, count em, 3 fucking seconds to learn

just as little time to learn how to defend btw

[rustic atlas]

i have loads of complaints about this game and the way its been handled but nothing trumps these three. Releasing this game as a "finished product" in the state that it was in is nothing short of fraud and false advertising. Its absolutely abhorrent and there was nothing stopping them releasing the game as paid early access or beta while still charging people to play. Tarkov has been an early access/beta title for over 8 years now and they're still getting their player base to pay for a $200 version of the game. The second is the match making which i've already mentioned.

This is THE singular worst ranked matchmaking system i have ever seen in a game and it wouldnt be too far fetched to say it alone killed the game and drove away players. Forget not being able to derank or being able to party up with people of extreme rank differences, the biggest issue was having the actual best players in the world regularly queue up against gold, plat, and diamond shitters and both parties lose and gain the same amount of rp. That is insane. The number one player in the world on leaderboards, lockalott, was able to accrue over 62,000 rp as a result of this faulty system to no fault of his own. Changes to the matchmaking system for season 1 have been noted though it might be too little too late which brings me to my third point and this might be the most egregious.

Who in their right mind releases a game and goes on a month long vacation RIGHT AFTER LAUNCH. It was tremendously appreciated the amount of hotfixes and the swiftness of patches being released for issues immediately after launch. It felt like the developers were really listening and that the community was really heard. And then they pretty much abandon us for 6 weeks under the guise of developing the crossplay system. These guys have no idea what the fuck they are doing with their own game and it seriously shows. Its so ironic that one of the very first complaints the community ever had about this game was missile meta and every single patch they've released since patch 2 has removed the efficacy of ground play and creativity when it comes to making space and creating plays effectively making missile meta the only viable option all the way up to current "pro" play

[glossy plank]

That is completely true

It's just that there is no conversation to be had about balancing from the place we're at now if you're coming at it with the knowledge of what the game was prior to patch 3

[rustic atlas]

its literally just impossible to attempt to properly balance a game when you dont have people of equal skill playing against each other

like you would have no idea what is actually broken and truly needs adjustment

[compact obsidian]

If it was a balance issue, i would somewhat understand. But the current issue with GKs isn't really balancing, but rather poor implementation of what they wanted to do. Like i said, a nerf to the dive distance would make sense, they nerfed the shooting power after all. But we constantly jump to the wrong side, with the wrong animation. Might as well just give us the default dive animation and stick with that, i would be more than happy. At least it would be consistent and predictable as a GK.

And if this were done to defenders, attackers or whatever, it wouldn't feel as bad. But as a GK any mistake, whether it's by you or the backend giving you the wrong animation, results in a goal. It's quite the punishment for playing a broken game i guess...

Also what Trico touched on Slocap listening to all the casuals is 100% correct. Just go on r/Rematch and look at all the causals complain about stuff they don't understand. And they are the loud minority cause the people that love the game are playing it, not arguing about how broken ippy slide is...

[oak harness]

It would ideal for sloclap to have somewhat of a council of like 15-20 players that would have a direct pipeline to the devs who actually have substantial experience and know the games mechanics inside and out

From their great suggestions and consistently good feedback

I think people like @left glade and @rustic atlas would be a good start

[granite dagger]

@rustic atlas youre one of the more well spoken people here, good job bro

[left glade]

Not true at all. It actually has been done to outfielders and it felt absolutely terrible (EE would just go the wrong direction all the time and everything felt super stiff). I agree that the way they changed GK was absolutely the wrong way to nerf it. It definitely needed a nerf, but this was a terrible way to go about it. I’ve said this from the beginning and will continue to say it, but nerfing and reducing the fluidity in controlling your character will ALWAYS be the wrong direction. I also agree with Trico, and have been saying this for a long time also, but idk why fixing matchmaking hasn’t been their number one priority. In fact, idk why the ranked system being an actually functional ranked system hasn’t been implemented already. We still have no leaderboard in game and no real ranked system, so what exactly do most players have to even play for?

[compact obsidian]

I meant more that it feels shit but also every time it happens it results in a goal against your team too. While as an attacker you don't get punished as much. I agree it was probably felt just as bad to play with the bugs as forward tho

[left glade]

I definitely understand what y’all mean with the whole “if you get punished it’s a goal” thing, but I definitely think y’all are underestimating the amount of pressure strikers have in a competitive game. In a game against really good defenses and GKs, you will get maybe 2-3 real chances per game to score (obviously you can get more against bad defenses/GKs, but this is assuming real teams). If you don’t make that shot perfect, you miss and as a result, lose the game. Add onto the fact that this game has made aiming the ball so insanely bad in recent patches (the “lock” doesn’t fully lock and good luck playing controller where you get your crosshair dragged wildly around), and it definitely can be a very high pressure role.

[rustic atlas]

i feel like its really not my nor any other player's place to have a direct impact on the game like that. I'm just criticizing the way sloclap is prioritizing what changes they make to their game. Most of the matchmaking issues probably stemmed from all of the hotfixes they made on launch week to address players complaints of slow matchmaking, but when it was realized super quickly that any squad of high ranking players can add like one gold ranked friend and get easy lobbies to farm there should have been a change. Biggest things sloclap should have focused on before attempting balance changes was increasing server capacity and helping with netcode, and adding stricter skill based matchmaking. A server mod made a post in #❓｜questions about how they give a numerical value to different ranks and try to match up squads of players who's sum total is about even but even thats pretty flawed. For more complex matchmaking that can work but they dont even have good base match making. The way a lot of games work is just matchmaking for the highest ranked player in a squad

[granite dagger]

Good way to explain it

It is a bad system, though

The skill difference from Master to Elite is already enormous, and doesnt account for how far into elite you are either, and its a team game, a classic case in team games is that the team with the worst player loses, not the best player wins, so it just feels bad for everybody

[rustic atlas]

comes from @/imbased or Mr.Wiki one of the lead moderators

[granite dagger]

Ah yes

Dawson

Well let me rephrase then

Assuming the message is true, then the above points apply

[fair heron]

Bullcrap. I had a team of silver-gold, and the enemies had 5 elites in same squad

Happened 2-3 times that we had plat/diamond/master/gold in my team, and they had 3-4 elites

[compact obsidian]

and you knew this how? Surely you didn't manually check all 9 of them?

[fair heron]

literally did because of how big the difference in skill was

on u.gg

it was 4-0 in like 1 minute or so

[compact obsidian]

and you sure you compared their current rank and not their last season rank?

[rustic atlas]

this is information provided by a mod in this server regarding the design of their matchmaking system

we all know it can be quite bad for low ranked players especially when it struggles to find them a game

[fair heron]

I'm in masters, touched elite for a few games too. And it sucks for me too, because I have to deal with silver and sometimes even bronze players in my team

[glossy plank]

my tip touched elite one time