If this update goes through, rematch is a dead game. (regarding next patch)

[left briar]

sometimes you gotta check if they even have a pulse when they play

[astral moth]

Yes and I agree but making the mechanics even slightly more reactable is just whatever since it wont really affect good placed shots in higher levels

At this point even slightly helping entry level players to feel like they played against something well is welcome

[left briar]

there are plenty of casual players guys

[astral moth]

If goalie could actually dive at the blade rather than wait for it then they wouldnt have to nerf it

[left briar]

gget a gamepass trial and hop on

[left briar]

you can just head the ball

wins prio every time

[astral moth]

But we nerf EE instead because we cant fix the game

[left briar]

in the current build you can just soft lob blade too. so it's just a buff

[molten falcon]

But they didn't get rid of the golden boost aspect you deem as buddy it got rid literally everything you can do with EE

[left briar]

doesn't need to be a first time soft lob

[astral moth]

Yeah I agree as a defender but the goalie doesnt get the same luxury sometimes

[molten falcon]

Like EE doesn't really have any play except to get to an area faster but then your defender can just EE and get there with you

[left briar]

sometimes they can't but then it's just a good blade

[astral moth]

Your main tool (the dive) as a goalie fails 90% because its so dog shit to dive at the actual ball and not at the players feet

[left briar]

and should have a good chance to score

[astral moth]

Yeah which is why I called this patch stupid in this entire thread

[molten falcon]

If we are arguing volley shots were too fast for GKs then it truly is a skill issue and GKs need to just get better

[astral moth]

They legit patched out everything that was okay to keep and proceeded to keep everything unhealthy about the mechanic

I had to question if they were stupid or not

[left briar]

what did you think was okay about gb?

and what crossed the line?

genuinely asking

[astral moth]

Its the initial turn. Many tech in this game relies on cancelling the stagger effect from turning. Sprint cutting and a buncha other shit. The speed of the initial EE when in direct contact with the ball is also extremely unnatural

A lot of the tech I fear could be phased out by doing this but an option is to add new animations to the stagger system when turning and doing certain actions to add more clarity

Also doing moves after a rainbow in gb give vastly different results depending on where the balls sent like being able to still bicycle or doing another full rainbow header into a shot

[left briar]

do you have an issue with flicker then

[astral moth]

If GB didnt provide so much speed that wouldnt be possible

[left briar]

because giving defenders more stimuli to react to just hurts offense as a whole

defense is insanely broken RN and the only reason it doesn't look like it is because volleys are even more broken

[astral moth]

Agreed

Defense needs to be punished in more healthy ways that isnt just the prio systems

[left briar]

for sure

[astral moth]

Or they need to make the existing systems more rewarding

[left briar]

I just think that gb isn't as broken as you seemingly think

unless you don't think it's that strong and just don't like that it's not visually as intuitive as other things

[astral moth]

I dont think its broken or undefendable. It just isnt in the books for the look and feel of the game

Unless they make it not look like you're flashing stepping with some voodoo magic then itll always been on the radar to be patched

I think this because of this quote

[left briar]

I guess I just don't know how gb is the line in a game as acrobatic as rematch

[astral moth]

Hold on let me scroll

Here

I mean when you can do a tp flick into another tp rainbow header animation then that just kinda seals the deal

I think it has the potential of being refined into a core staple if done correctly but idk if they want to waste their time on a mechanic that is only kinda useful for looks

Aaaa I just realized that wasnt the full quote I cut out the first sentence for that point up top

Basically it went something along the lines of not wanting "fantasy" elements in the game and drawing a line between too crazy and just super human athlete

I think GB rn is def bordering on fantasy for even the most super human athlete rather than something actually possible

They just need to make it so offense has a btter way to get shooting opportunities for themselves in the penalty that doesnt only include short lobbing it over everytime

Gb just kinda gives a chance to shoot solo but it doesnt set up into a good shot most of the times anyway

[molten falcon]

Better net code would fix this though. GB isnt the problem its the net code that makes them look like they teleport

[astral moth]

Well idk about that. The reason that it looks so buggy imo is that you get a lock on the ball while its moving at high speeds and your characters try to "catch up" to the ball after it starts moving away from you from the initial EE hit

Just tuning down the speed your character snaps to the ball would help a little on how dumb it looks sometimes and after that I could be fine in a world where GB stays

But the way the current EE systems does its thing to speed up to the ball even while its moving away is just a foundational flaw with the system

[mighty vessel]

but the game is also not completely unrealistic where you can literally turn around with the character instantly 💀

It's ass playing against this

I'm not saying to remove it but I prefer techniques like that to be in the game but in more polished ways

[mighty vessel]

Not only netcode but animations too

[left briar]

netcode is def a big reason people "teleport"

gb doesn't tp on client side

it's just a quick turn and an interaction on ball to stay with it

I think the best and most healthy form of GB is gb push ball

gb rainbow is gimmicky and easily covered

[mighty vessel]

not only QUICK, it's literally instantly

[left briar]

yeah i mean the heel chop pushes the ball immediately

[golden raptor]

@vocal walrus if you could pin this just so more people get to view this, it would be highly appreciated. We just want the comp scene to be more recognized in a sense.

[winged pagoda]

Bro really think that 2k replies thread is going to be unnoticed

[golden raptor]

Devs have responded to other posts like stamina bar dawg

Just want them to address it or something

[acoustic portal]

in many aspect it made that game better. Yeaa defender and gk have a big advantage over striker at this patch. But the whole game feels slower, more controlled and it's not just passing to a prioball and then goal. Especially pro teams in germany i've seen using only prioballs. that was the whole game and that's lame. some of them make some passing in between but still in the end it's always prio into goal. That is pretty much fixed for this update. I think it's still possible but u need to be precise ass hell and the defender needs to have bad positioning. Players now need to make good passing game in a football game...

@little herald Do you guys have a lot of prioballs in international tourneys?

[golden raptor]

I can tell you in high comp tourneys, there is always a way to stop something. Prio ball here is something. But high comp teams don’t usually rely on it except one or 2. But the gks stuff it.

[acoustic portal]

idk in my experience of a gk most of the goal happened because of prio shots. It's not an 50/50 but it depends where your position is. Every other goal was either skill gap or mistakes. In that way I think it's nearly impossible now to get a goal if you play smoothly. the striker relies on passing and outsmarting the keeper. But prio shots were my biggest fear. Now with the patch it's going to change a lot.

[golden raptor]

Really true, but I’ll tell you one thing. Let’s say you beat the defender, and now ur 1v1 with the keeper. It’s automatically his ball. He has less animations to read or he can look at his mini map and push you if you blade shot or even use off wall.

Dribbling nerfs also kill that

[acoustic portal]

This really depends on how the game will be in the end. It's hard to tell. Plus the dribbles aren't gone, it's just different if you played the beta. you can bladeshot from a lob without pushing the ball first. The movement is way quicker with the pushball. You still have the ippy slide. Golden boost doesn't really work it's more of a half assed golden boost but it works but not for the same scenarios as it used to. Even now when you are in front of the goal what is a striker going to do? The only thing dribble around the keeper but that's also possible now. As a keeper when i see he pushes the ball i instantly run up to him and wait if he heads or shoots. then you just adjust to it.

[hollow swallow]

If they nerf prio im ok for giving up in golden boost (sad tho) even if its really easy to defend on it, people will play like the real football by doings pass

and when I say pass it's not just big crosses from the goalkeeper to the attacker

[acoustic portal]

if u get a clean prio ball there is nothing to defend on it. But I know what you mean, it's defendable but makes the game 100x more difficult

for gk

[hollow swallow]

Yes, but it remains 100x more defensible than a priority with a center...

Y more talking about defenders

[acoustic portal]

yeaa i get that, but the beta felt really good for a defender. did you play?

[hollow swallow]

Nah I had a tournament I only launched it to try some dribbles/shot I felt the game was slower it was cool

[golden raptor]

I can agree I bet defender feels amazing

I would like for u to try offense in a higher comp scene

just for your own experience

[acoustic portal]

I can only say what i defend and what not. The only thing I hate while being in a 1v1 is if he just passes left or right of me. every other mechanic is readable af.

[rigid trail]

?

[golden raptor]

They pinged u to take a look at this beautiful 2k message blog. If you have the time please take a look at ganjas post. A lot of the tournament NA scene is typing in here.

[rigid trail]

I was already pinged here 2 days ago so I saw the post, I usually don't answer the "[...] or rematch is a dead game" type of posts. There are issues in the beta, we're investigating and as my answers can be interpreted as speaking for the whole team, I prefer not to rush an answer that is not absolutely verified and validated by Sloclap

Hope you understand

[golden raptor]

Ofc I highly appreciate it, most of the tournament comp players are wanting to hear something towards them also. But I highly appreciate you replying back!

[left rampart]

think people aren't necessarily looking for an answer, more an acknowledgment that things are heard is all

[golden raptor]

Highly agreed

[rigid trail]

I understand this too, just when you see 2k messages with a bit of anger you have to be careful with what you say

[left rampart]

i think its just a bad title for the thread, theres a lot of good points in this thread by calm people just giving their opinion as comp players

[golden raptor]

totally get it, like I said it’s that we have never been acknowledge in a dev post or anything involving the comp scene due to the game heading the casual side.

Totally not a good title but they’re just quitting left and right. Which is not necessarily your fault at all, we just feel unseen to an extent. Especially all the things that are being nerfed, have some sort use as the game is already defender sided atm. Like priority ball just needs nerfed with jitter clicking and positioning but ik you guys will address it when you confirm stuff.

[mint lynx]

Im just happy to hear the possibility of movement changes being unintented and an issue instead. If thats the case I hope it gets fixed as soon as possible so we can have a really amazing update. If not backlash will be there for devs to see anyways.

From what I saw almost everyone complained about slow pushes and EE changes on the beta feedback

[main temple]

blah blah blah get on supervive

lets go

[rotund thorn]

You like missiles being worse but you don’t like the fact they finally nerf blade shots lol

Game IS already too much arcade right now. Making teamplay skills more important is what will make this game more interesting to watch in competions

You can still do useful solo skills, but they will be even more rewarding.
Just adapt to it

[mint lynx]

if they fix movement ? hell yeah. if they dont ? Once everyone is marked there is no way to start offense since sprint push is bugged and kills momentum. a good defender is not letting u pass 100% with those crappy movements beta has

leading to missile once again

but this time desperate ones

[rotund thorn]

Yeah unfortunately I didn’t have time to play beta enough, maybe like 3 or 4 matches. But I just agree with the global vision.
But talking about marking, it’s all also a skill to be able to get unmarked at the right moment to over take defender . It’s not only about skill with the ball in feet

I think beta servers should have last longer

[rotund thorn]

Not sure about that, you can pass the ball around and play possession

[mint lynx]

its easy to talk about shoulds but those things are highly possible when skill ceiling is low or mid. When playing in high level a defender who knows everything about positioning and priority will not let you slip 80% of the times We did a tournament level tryhard scrims to test the beta and we were just not happy with movement. We all had 20 tackles each

except GKs

because no one could keep the ball

then we desperately moved on to the missiles

to be able to take shots

[restive light]

I hope that the team takes immediate action on this

[rotund thorn]

It’s always a matter of balance. Current meta is definitely not interesting at all either.
There is one situation imo that prevents or make keeping possession difficult. It is when you receive a through ball or any ball that’s not directly on you, and you have an opponent very close to you. If you take the ball, they will instantly tackle you right away.
But beside that, I think it’s easy to keep possession and pass the ball around.

Often these situations end in an endless tackle circus

Maybe players should have a short frame of invulnerability after touching a ball idk

[subtle dune]

blade shot works without push ball now, golden boost was a crazy visual bug its a cheap excuse of a mechanic, extra effort chop is now replaced with pushing the ball to the side while looking like you are standing still, extra effort into rainbow (who uses that?)

[mint lynx]

everyone in the high ranks ?

with it's momentum its the perfect gap creating tool

especially in the penalty area for a fw

Golden boost but without the change of any direction

until to the rainbow

[subtle dune]

i think they should entirely remove extra effort it causes too many bugs

[mint lynx]

too late for that since they have already introduced it

and made us play with it for more than 4 months

including betas

[subtle dune]

it isnt too late

they introduced fake shot in early playtests then removed it and readded it as a bug on accident

[mint lynx]

clearly there are issues in beta 3 as have been mentioned. EE being cancelled + push being broken are included most likely

[mint lynx]

playtest*

as mentioned

the game is not on testing anymore

its fully released game

[rotund thorn]

Maybe not remove but definitely tweak it

[subtle dune]

clearly not bc if it was fully released they would have added 10 new gamemodes and fun game settings for custom matches and more new collaborations but they are as of now just hurrying fixing bugs still over 2 months later

[rotund thorn]

But tbh what just bothers me and my teammates rn is only the volley meta so if they just manage to make it not a meta anymore without destroying other mechanics I’m fine

[subtle dune]

but if they remove volley meta to be fair its gonna be impossible to score

if they want this game to be more like irl street football they need to heavily nerf gk

[rotund thorn]

Remove meta and slightly nerf gk

Or maybe not, let’s just try without meta first for a while and see

Let’s focus on 1 thing each patch

[mint lynx]

they dont tho

in which irl street footbal people spams bicycle kicks smoothly as in the game

[subtle dune]

why we discussing like we are head of sloclap

[subtle dune]

ppl shoot more from far out and dribble in street football

none of which rematch has added properly into the agme

shooting from far out is such an easyyyyy save for any gk

and dribbling has only bug techs

which isnt reliable

dribbling is just

run past the defender if you use extra effort better than him

[mint lynx]

its supposed to be fast paced arcady but also not overly exaggerated

[subtle dune]

idk

but

all i know

this game isnt what i wanted it to be

and

prio is fucked up and it sounds like an easy issue to fix but apparently its not

might be a dumb take but i would absolutely love it if rematch was an 11v11 real football game with offsides fouls set pieces and everything

[left rampart]

i would honestly like a 6v6 on a bigger field with slightly bigger goal

[subtle dune]

this was another idea i had

6v6 would be so nice too

[left briar]

been saying 6v6 would be better for comp

[left rampart]

i think a bigger field in general would be better

its too crowded to do much more than crossing it in

[left briar]

yeah

[left rampart]

with how fast people can close gaps

and how little dribbling lets u do

[left briar]

I think it could be wider and a bit longer

[subtle dune]

it would be way better to have 2 defenders, a midfielder and 2 strikers (possibly) rather than the most common formation being a 2-2 which has no one in the middle really unless they switch or if its a 2-2 diamond which is kinda just a 1-2-1 formation which makes defense weird and difficult

[left briar]

longer so keepers have less direct offense

[subtle dune]

fr

[left rampart]

we've been playing mostly 1-1-2 with midfielder leaving offense early and run back on defense

[subtle dune]

smart

[left rampart]

but yea with 6 u get to play a lot more formations

[subtle dune]

yea

[left briar]

you should pretty much just run 2-2 def

[subtle dune]

which is boring

[left briar]

offense typically a 1-1-2

[subtle dune]

if there were 6 people there wouldnt be an objectively best formation

[left briar]

agreed

there's no variance rn

some people play 1-2-1 but it defends like a 3-1

[subtle dune]

nahh

i had an old team that played a 1-2-1 but the midfielders switch between whos playing more defensive and whos playing more offensive in each play

[left briar]

yeah I mean

that's a 2-2

[subtle dune]

which also didnt work and the team disbanded

[subtle dune]

yea just overcomplicated

and it didnt work

the teams with a 2-2 formation have the best results

and the best team changes every week

[left briar]

with volleys being volleys you kinda need 2 in box

and an extremely active GK

[subtle dune]

in the latest rematch esports striker cup both of the clubs in the final (la masia and R1) were completely new teams

[left rampart]

ur usually 2 in box 1 marking corner ball handler

n then 1 playing on counter

[left briar]

pretty much that yeah

[subtle dune]

and even tho R1 has good players from older teams, la masia was a complete new team with players nobody knew

all you gotta do in this game rn

[left briar]

is this EU

[subtle dune]

play the 2-2 formation, get the ball on the edge of the box and shoot

[left briar]

I've never heard of em

[subtle dune]

yes

[left briar]

word

[subtle dune]

are you eu?

[left briar]

I wish the scene could play global

nah I'm NA

[subtle dune]

probably one of the smartest NA players here

[left briar]

NA is pretty much all volleys at this point

[subtle dune]

i know so many NA players in this official discord server that talk about random shit and have horrible opinions on the game

[left briar]

I'm one of the top NA competitors

[subtle dune]

makes sense

[left briar]

I also actually have followed football for a long time

most NA people never even played FIFA

rocket League or whatever

is what they're from

[subtle dune]

i havent followed football for a long time and i had no gamesense in football, but then a club captain taught me everything i need to know all the basics and i went from there and grew pretty fast

[left briar]

yeah it's not overly complicated for sure

people have their own ideas

[subtle dune]

yea

[left briar]

I hate that they're ripping tech out of the game though

feels bad

[subtle dune]

you know what i think

[left briar]

volley nerfs will be a welcome change

[subtle dune]

for sure

but

i think

lock on needs to be smaller

i want this game to have more short clean passes

but you cant do that

every ball has to be over an opponents head to the guy making a run

because they tp to the ball

and lock onto it

[left briar]

yeah def can just spam x

[subtle dune]

yh

[left briar]

same reason golden boost isn't that broken

[subtle dune]

but i still dont like it

golden boost is a weird tech

clearly a bug

no way sloclap would keep it

[left briar]

what about ee chop?

turn and ee

[subtle dune]

idk about that

[left briar]

it's essentially the same

but actually better I'm some ways

in

[subtle dune]

idk the new tech now

is like

i dont even know if it works

but

you can extra effort to a side by just running to that side for a milisecond, then extra efforting

and you will keep going forwards but the ball will roll away to the side and the opponents may not even notice

u can test it in the beta rn

[left briar]

yeah that used to turn you instantly

with ee

but now it kicks the ball out

its not intended afaik

[subtle dune]

yh

[brazen prawn]

broken mechanic is not skill... and that patch also destroyed the boring prio missile meta, how can you NOT talking about, this patch is truly a savior, people who pass the ball and knows how to do it will shine ( football.. if you didnt know) So the skill ceiling will be here, and way bigger than few dudes who watched tiktok clips to do broken moves..

[copper loom]

remove ippy slide and header in air spam, thats iut

[frozen vigil]

Ippy slide got a new animation that is smooth and reactable now.

You can just do 2 headers in a row maximum. That was changed in second beta. Before that you could do an infinite amount of them. Fun times. What feels broken is the magnet and prio you get when moving the ball in the air around you.

[mint lynx]

patch did not destroy missile meta

in fact it puts you into desperate situation for missile in high lvl lobbies due to the broken movement

worse than patch 2

it just doesnt succeed as often

if the patch comes with that being fixed then we are all good tho

EE push actions still needs to return tho thats overkill

[copper loom]

hopefully they put a sale on rematch on the day of crossplay, will help pull in new players, and drop another trailer

[pearl hedge]

I did not like this patch 3, character feels heavy so the ball. Everything feels weird.

it took away my desire to play

[rotund thorn]

You don’t need to be at Soclap’head to know this is right ..

[rotund thorn]

And yet you dare saying it is easy to fix. Are you at head of Soclap too?

[rotund thorn]

I’d like bigger teams too , just to try it out how it works in this game.

[rotund thorn]

Very well said dude

[subtle dune]

can u read

[timid dawn]

I'm not sure guessing is core esports mechanic

[slim heath]

core esport mechanic?

whats a core esport mechanic

[left rampart]

i suppose reading ur opponent is not part of any other games either

[rotund thorn]

Yeah mb I misinterpreted

[subtle dune]

np

[peak pond]

HZ | hyk — 29.08.2025 19:12
as a matter of fact you do need these glitchy weird dribble and shoot mechanics, until a non-glitchy-weird alternative is introduced

solo threat is entirely removed with these changes which is vital to offense because when passing is the only viable way to progress an attack the game is unhealthy and scoring becomes even more difficult because thats all a defender and GK has to look for now

[solid violet]

That’s my goat

[brazen prawn]

totally not than patch 2, bad timing and bad placement, the dude will shoot in the air, and the defender will have it.

Yes desroyed is a big word, but grealtly fixed

[sleek night]

100% this. We're already buffing defense in priority battles so nerfing solo play on top of that will make it nearly impossible to score

[peak pond]

Keeping post active for devs

[restive light]

if they release the patch like this

there is no hope for the game

[sleek night]

Noone asked to slow down movement speed in the game. NOBODYYYYYYYY

[remote lark]

make rematch great again

[rotund thorn]

Quite the opposite actually

I’m waiting for the patch so bad to play this game again

[remote lark]

low level alert 🚨

[sonic onyx]

i dont get why everyones like dead game? this server has 25k currently online, so like everyone that plays the game. if u want the game to stay alive then play it, encourage others to. if u hate the game then leave the server and move on with your life

[untold granite]

Get rid of buggy glitchy "tech". It's horrilbe combination with bad netcode. This game is just fine without any special moves

[regal marsh]

y'all trippin you guys don't want to get nerf as a striker doesn't mean that the game is dying or sum shit they need to balance the game thats all

[vague herald]

I agree, they should balance the game, and the problem with the update as is, is that it creates an imbalance now more in the defenders favor, I don't think im too far off to say 60%+ of the casual playerbase only want to play striker

In the coming patch strikers are left with very few to no options to get a shot at goal

[regal marsh]

yea so casual players need to tend more passing

so rematch going to be better

🙏

[vague herald]

I think you misunderstand, if passing is your only option

It becomes easier to defend

No defender has to worry about you blasting past him and getting a potshot, if you always have to pass off to start an offense, defending becomes a lot easier and you have even MORE reliance on the classical missile

I dont think the meta will evolve in the direction you believe

What I was trying to say is that if majority of casual players want to strike

But they have no options to strike

The game becomes boring and they stop playing

This is where the "dead game" allegations come from

[regal marsh]

i mean idk i don't believe that they'll just quit since they can't score there will be ones, but not the high rates and we now we can't stop them to release the update in the future they'd balance it more probably

[vague herald]

The future is the worrying part

[regal marsh]

i believe in them 🙏
just hoping that they fix the problems that most people continue to play cuz i wanna play 😭

[vague herald]

With a lack of meaningful updates for a long enough period of time eventually game will be left with a rather small playerbase and im not sure their studio can hold out on 1k concurrent daily players long enough to make said meaningful updates

These first few months are pretty pivotal

I appreciate killing missile meta but not buffing up anything else for offense feels like they just don't want you to get to shoot ever, personally speaking

Missile is so used because its the most consistent way to get a shot off

[rotund thorn]

Lol. And I guess you are spamming ippy slides, blade shots or volley cross

[vague herald]

💀

[rotund thorn]

and I forgot infinite headers

(they removed rip)

If that's all you can do to win then yes I can understand you're mad. Now you'll have to learn to play as a team and pass (play actual football). That's very unfortunate

You'll discover that football has other skills, like off-ball positioning and movement, spatial awareness, decision making (risk/reward).. You will grow up and be better, take it as a gift

[vague herald]

Actual football has dribbling thats much more effective than current games

Just saying

[rotund thorn]

Actual football does not win by dribbling more than teamplay

[left rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[rotund thorn]

this was true in 90s or before

[vague herald]

Nor do you in current rematch

All the best players win by doing team strategic setplays

Not dribbling

But at least its an option

Or well, should be

[rotund thorn]

Soclap devs have always wanted to favor teamplay over individual skills in Rematch, its their vision of the game and the competitive side of the game. Deal with it.
I agree solo skills should still be an option, but just not the main meta

[vague herald]

Its never been the main meta

[left rampart]

it never was

[terse lion]

Getting rid of the EE movement heavily harms teamplay

[left rampart]

u are contradicting urself

u want it to be an option but u want dribbling removed at the same time

[vague herald]

Nice seeing you here bud

[terse lion]

Defense is way, WAY too strong right now. If you remove the offense's ability to create space, there literally will be no way to actually get teamplay going

[vague herald]

Type shit

[terse lion]

Defense's will just stack the box and then what? How do you get through 3 defenders in the box now?

[rotund thorn]

so what are blade shots if not a solo skills? Also the meta of self-passing with the wall in order to make a nearly unblockable volley cross is still a solo "skill"

[vague herald]

How do you set up bladeshot solo without dribbling your defender first

[terse lion]

It actually isn't unblockable at all. If the defender is smart and saves their EE, they can literally teleport to the off-the-wall volley and steal the prio

Also, no blade shot is possible even remotely near the box if the defenders have EE, they just pop it and spam pass or push ball and will automatically win it every single time

[rotund thorn]

In high rank 99% of teams tactic is volley cross and shots

[vague herald]

Yeah so, teamplay?

[rotund thorn]

When did I say i want it removed ?

[vague herald]

The only reason the volley cross as you coin it is used so much is because its the most reliable

[terse lion]

Ehhhhh I'll be honest teamplay is arguable for the current top comp meta lets be real

Sure it's technically a pass play

[vague herald]

I guess

[rotund thorn]

Dribbling should just have higher risk/reward ratio than teamplay, thats all im saying and what Soclap wants too

[terse lion]

But like...it doesn't require any actual skill and doesn't actually reward smart play

[vague herald]

Its not really teamplay if you could plug anyone into it, tell them how to do it, and then they just do it

I get the sentiment

[terse lion]

It already does. The changes getting made don't make it high risk/high reward, it makes it literally impossible

I think also people don't seem to realize that the mechanics getting removed are literally best used for passing and teamplay

[rotund thorn]

Some people used blade shots even in 1v1 without dribbling any def, just because it was a broken mecanic that makes it really hard for gk to save.
What's the point of this ? Why would it be better than a normal shot. It does not make any sense

[terse lion]

I mean that's just terrible defending then

If someone blade shots in front of a defender and they let that through, that is 100% a skill issue on the defense

[rotund thorn]

The self-pass volley cross is barely stoppable if you miss the prio because the ball goes above you even if you jump. Current height of volley hit is non sense

[terse lion]

And on the GK

[terse lion]

Ok sure, but the changes getting made are essentially making it to where even if that cross gets through, it isn't really usable by the offense

[rotund thorn]

How long did you play the beta ?

[terse lion]

So how do you score

[terse lion]

I played all betas, around 100 hours in each

Oh

The beta for this patch

[rotund thorn]

yes

[terse lion]

About 6-7 hours

[rotund thorn]

i mean is that enough tho to make a conclusion that dribbling is now impossible

[vague herald]

Any competent defender or even GK just eats your bladeshot prio

[terse lion]

Well fair, impossible is hyperbolic

[vague herald]

Its so slow to setup its easy to recognize

[terse lion]

Dribbling itself isn't "impossible"

However, space creation when receiving a pass is now impossible

[rotund thorn]

unfortunatly beta servers stopped quite early i only played it for 1h or so

[terse lion]

And the ways to dribble now feel even less skill focused than before

It feels incredibly gimmicky with the new patch

[rotund thorn]

What a teamplay lmao

[terse lion]

And are more focused on abusing bugs and solo focused than the EE dribble moves were

[vague herald]

I just have a hard time seeing how you open up defense in the new patch

[terse lion]

You don't

[vague herald]

3 people in box how do you shoot

[terse lion]

You already don't open up a defense lets be clear

[rotund thorn]

Who want's to watch a match where nearly whole match is about doing the same shit again and again

[vague herald]

Yeah exactly

[terse lion]

Teams just abuse missiles

[terse lion]

This patch is going to make this even more the case

And you're right, nobody wants to see that

[vague herald]

This will be so much more the case now

lmao

Teams will just pass the ball around between them and keeper until defense willingly comes out to give them a chance at goal

Cuz there is no point trying to shoot at goal with 3 defenders in box

[terse lion]

People don't really realize this, but the reason missile meta is so prevalent is not just because it's broken (which it is lets be clear). It's also because defense is so incredibly strong that you literally cannot do anything else

[rotund thorn]

I prefer more organic and somewhat unpredictable plays, than seing people self-passing with the wall, do volley cross then volley shot a whole match

[vague herald]

Enjoy your stare contests I guess

[terse lion]

I do also, the current strength of defenders and GKs do not allow for this

[left rampart]

if u like organic u like dribbling being strong

[terse lion]

Take it from the guy playing on literally the only non-missile team in NA left

Maybe even NA AND EU tbf I watched the recent EU tournaments hoping for something else and I was very let down

[rotund thorn]

Well yes there is still tweaks to do. But the good point is that the devs now actually wants us to see more normal and interesting football to watch

[vague herald]

The tournament was so boring to watch

[rotund thorn]

People will pass, that's crazy

[vague herald]

Yes but this patch is NOT what will happen

[terse lion]

grass...

[rotund thorn]

They will play footbal, i can't believe

[terse lion]

I do not think you are understanding what we are saying

What we are saying is that the mechanics that got removed in this patch

Those mechanics were GOOD for teamplay and passing, which we all love

[left rampart]

with golden boost i can flash by a defender whos not ready for it into box and lob it to edge for a shot, without it i have to pass back to keeper and run for a setplay

[vague herald]

Literally removes your ability to play normal football

[left rampart]

which one is more fun to see/play ?

[terse lion]

Can't speak for others in this thread, but at least us 3? We love teamplay

[rotund thorn]

That's totally subjective though, so we can't really debate on that

[vague herald]

❤️

[rotund thorn]

Personally, i found them ugly

[terse lion]

No it's really not

[vague herald]

My brother from across the ocean

[terse lion]

Like, they are space creating tools

That is VERY important for passing and teamplay

I mean shit, my team literally has a play we created and are known for using this mechanic that is a complete teamplay based play

[rotund thorn]

I mean, you can still ground pass, lob pass, use tap or shot button to play as a team

[vague herald]

Sure, until you get to box

Now what

[terse lion]

Ok so my question for you is how do you plan on passing around a defender in the box?

How do you get in

[rotund thorn]

Just because the player does not make very arcady moves does not make less useful

[terse lion]

Genuine question btw

Because I literally do not know

[left rampart]

i feel like u just want to see tiki taka into box but thats not how the game works

[vague herald]

No idea man

[rotund thorn]

I mean that's normal football. Depending on your mates positioning and movement, you'll do a through pass, a cross, a ground pass or whatever

[vague herald]

tiki taka into box would be feasible if people didnt teleport to ball from miles away

[rotund thorn]

I don't get it, my mates already play like this in current versoin

[vague herald]

I fear the people they play are not very good

[rotund thorn]

Not really, we're just as good i guess. We have thousands of hours in similar games so

[terse lion]

A through pass is stolen by the defender hitting EE and spamming push ball. A cross will be stopped by GK getting either 100% guaranteed prio, or it will be just won/blocked by the defenders sitting in the box. A ground pass will never get through in the box for the same reason a throughball can't

[vague herald]

Yeah like defender doesnt even have to move

Just tap EE and spam input

[left rampart]

or hold L2

[terse lion]

Tbh, removing the EE mechanics maybe could be the best for the game idk

But in THIS patch?

It's realllllly cooked

[rotund thorn]

Then attacker has to save EE for offense too

[left rampart]

for what

[terse lion]

That was the answer before

And why we're upset about the changes

[vague herald]

And do what

[terse lion]

Because this next patch? Well that just got removed

[vague herald]

Any input stops your EE now

[left rampart]

how does atttacker EE affect a ground pass getting intercepted

[vague herald]

Bladeshot is nerfed

[terse lion]

You don't have an option anymore

[rotund thorn]

Outrun the def by running first

[vague herald]

?

[terse lion]

They don't have to outrun you

[left rampart]

outrun the defender standing in box?

[terse lion]

They post up in the box

Like you can run around all you want

They just sit in the box and stare at you

[vague herald]

Grass do you just assume that there will be no defenders between you, the shooter, and the goal

Or, here, hypothetical

If there is

How do you get past him to run first now

[terse lion]

I can actually draw this up one sec

[rotund thorn]

As an attacker you have to keep moving all the time. You can also make space for another mate by attracting a def to the side or whatever. There's plenty of options

Only thing I agree tho is GK is probably too strong atm

[left rampart]

do defenders just not mark u

[vague herald]

Sure, but moving anywhere but INSIDE the box to shoot is trolling

You cannot shoot from anywhere outside of box reliably

So move to where

exactly

You can move back to middle or corners all you want

[vague herald]

You wont get a shot at goal

it doesnt matter

[rotund thorn]

look for example this clip, we both used EE https://www.twitch.tv/grasseh/clip/SmokyCourageousIguanaRuleFive-ri8xG-MdbBj5-aow

[left rampart]

W tactical-board

[terse lion]

Here is the current setup, the circles are the area of influence of the defenders

How do you get through?

Keep in mind that they do not have to use EE, they do not have to use stamina, they do not have to push you

[rotund thorn]

Def did. a mistake by being late

[vague herald]

Keeper slides at this ball

I fear we are in platinum

And a good defender stands between you and box

Not behind you like this

[left rampart]

keeper pressed slide

[terse lion]

already the defense made a massive mistake

[left rampart]

gg

[terse lion]

this would never happen at top level

[rotund thorn]

He was but the backpass fooled him

[left rampart]

oh my

[rotund thorn]

Yeah because he ran towards the player in the back for 1 sec

i agree he did mistake but my point is we both used EE here

[left rampart]

i can flyday

[terse lion]

Not just that defender

2 should never be marking that hard

4 should be running back also

[vague herald]

Goat

[terse lion]

and on top of that all, this still should never have been scorable btw

All GK has to do is this, hold goalie stance

gg

[vague herald]

Gg

[rigid trail]

I've seen this before... 🤔

[rotund thorn]

Ty

was a nice goal 🙂

[left rampart]

i sprint at u and hold l2

[terse lion]

I will say

You played this the best you could imo

or close

to give credit where it's due

[vague herald]

It was a nice flick to mid

But you can tell the Defenders and goalie are not very good

[terse lion]

LOL it's like the 8th or 9th time I've drawn it

[rotund thorn]

Ofc but I just gave the only clips i have i wish i had more but i will eventually

[terse lion]

I think grass that you want the same things we do

[rotund thorn]

I mean my team plays mostly like this and we get to Elite doing so

[rigid trail]

Hahaha tell them Wallaby

[vague herald]

This is elite?

Also matchmaking is very different from comp environment

[rotund thorn]

we are but in matchmaking, rank is not used anyway

[terse lion]

something something EU Elite NA plat something s omething idk

[vague herald]

Yeye

[terse lion]

[rotund thorn]

So we don't know opponent rank

[vague herald]

🗣️

[terse lion]

[rotund thorn]

All i'm saying is that its possible to be Elite and not using metas

[terse lion]

I mean sure

[rotund thorn]

Just by playing "normal" football

[vague herald]

If I CAN FLY DAY can make it to Elite so can you

[terse lion]

For now

The thing is, we've seen what the top level is and how completely impossible it is to deal with good defenses

[vague herald]

Reminder that you may also just be queuing into gold players

[left rampart]

its possible to be elite playing with a saxophone hooked up to ur keybinds

[vague herald]

While getting to elite

[terse lion]

What happens when that starts trickling down into elite ranked?

[vague herald]

When matchmaking gets fixed?

And people know how to play?

Youre gonna have a bad time

[left rampart]

i will not stand for goat slander

[vague herald]

Ultimately we want the same thing

We want teamplay to be prevelant and the main way to play the game

We all think the changes as is kills it a lot

Teamplay upfield was always "easy"

[terse lion]

I'll be very honest, I think they need to nerf defense by like 50%

[vague herald]

Its getting a shot off from box that was the hard part

[terse lion]

If they want this to be balanced

[left rampart]

i just want interactoin circles to be a whole lot smaller so accuracy and positioning are key

[terse lion]

Agreed

[left rampart]

even with just that

[vague herald]

Draw it up wallaby

[left rampart]

and stand tackle slightly worse

is enough to nerf defense imo

[vague herald]

Draw up the optimal defender AOI

[rotund thorn]

You mean we're finally gonna have fun

And enjoy the game

[vague herald]

I fear not

[rotund thorn]

Lol you no nothing

[vague herald]

If this is how you like to play

[vague herald]

And have fun with

You will in fact not have fun

[terse lion]

Something like this

If not slightly smaller, but this leaves holes with good off-ball movement

[left rampart]

grass if u rly want some experience of what we're talking about ur free to get ur friends and play us in a for fun scrim

just to show u what we mean

[terse lion]

Shit we'd play you from NA on EU servers even

[rotund thorn]

That's just one clip of a very dared 1-2 attempt, against great teams i agree we wouldn't have tried that unless we're really desperate

[left rampart]

if u still keep ur beliefs after then fairs

[rotund thorn]

you don't know how we play so

[vague herald]

If how you play is anything but volley cross youre gonna have a hard time scoring on us already in this patch

Im just saying

[rotund thorn]

But as we like playing possession, of course we want better matchmaking for more interesting matches

[left rampart]

we are THE team for possession play, i literally want to play the same exact way u do brother

but u need solo presence for that

[rotund thorn]

Only gk im%

[terse lion]

I mean in the most honest way possible that isn't me being a complete prick, the clip you sent is literally not possible in comp

[rotund thorn]

but maybe not 50%

[vague herald]

Not even comp

Against good players period

matchmaking or not

[terse lion]

like you're literally talking to the only possession teams in comp for EU and NA right now grass

nobody else plays that way because it's genuinely horrible

[rotund thorn]

I mean in a real match, defenders never stand still so there's always options to force them move or without the ball.

[left rampart]

no man

[vague herald]

Defenders stand still in box

[left rampart]

u are not pulling defenders out the box

[vague herald]

🙂

[left rampart]

u want to run over to half line go ahead try to shoot from there

[terse lion]

The image you're responding to grass is not how it currently is

[left rampart]

im sitting in my box

[terse lion]

That is how I would want it to be

[rotund thorn]

Imagine defenders stays like in your picture and never move at all, then you just run in between 2 of them which will never happen

[terse lion]

this is what it currently is

and tbh? I'm being generous here

[rotund thorn]

oh

[terse lion]

It's honestly worse

[left rampart]

just tell me how u attack this with natural play

[rotund thorn]

Would worth testing it in private server

[terse lion]

We have

I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours in scrims testing

Trying to figure it out

The answer? EE ball movement

And tbh that is still very unreliable

[left rampart]

setplay time

[vague herald]

CJ special

[rotund thorn]

Like, an attacker cannot run through the defs in your pic?

[vague herald]

Toothy joins the fray

[placid elbow]

is this showing what they have prio on?

[terse lion]

How could they?

[rotund thorn]

There should be plenty of space tho

[vague herald]

Space where?

[terse lion]

yeah, it's area of influence

[vague herald]

The circles are the influence

Where they can reach with EE Easily

[terse lion]

meaning everything in that area is defendable if the defender has EE up

[rotund thorn]

Just by running. Then if the def comes closer, he'll leave space behind him

[terse lion]

why would the defense come closer

until you're in the box

[rotund thorn]

Would be nice to see with an actual ingame picture

Because the dimensions are not the same

[vague herald]

Alright ill send you like 15 of them after scrims tonight

[placid elbow]

those 3 guys would be facing the wrong way though to get prio

[terse lion]

just go watch a comp tournament grass and you'd see exactly what we mean

[terse lion]

not against lob or ground passes

against missiles? yeah they would

[placid elbow]

against everything

[terse lion]

hence why everyone missiles

how does a lob pass get through

[placid elbow]

you lob it right behind your attacker

like right on his back

[terse lion]

that is too low

[placid elbow]

it's the same idea as a missile

[terse lion]

defender will tp to that

[placid elbow]

a perfect pass is always possible

[terse lion]

it genuinely is not

that is the problem

actually not entirely true

a perfect missile pass

is always possible

[placid elbow]

I mean I've lobbed it a lot of times to where my attacker gets prio because it's right behind his head

which is where you need to get the ball for him to get the prio

[terse lion]

then the defender made a mistake

[placid elbow]

not really because it's a perfect pass

[left rampart]

idrk what u mean toothy

[rotund thorn]

I mean, even the best defenders do mistakes at some point

[terse lion]

I'm down to be wrong, just send clips of what you're doing and I'll be as objective as possible

[left rampart]

do u rly think u lob here and hoehoe doesnt get it

[placid elbow]

but even if he did, everyone makes mistakes, the defenders can't track a moving target if he dashes/does unpredictable movement

[terse lion]

I would lovet o be wrong because then we'd absolutely run the comp scene

[rotund thorn]

Even the best teams IRL try thing that do not work then at some point it does

[terse lion]

the point is that defenders have to make a mistake to score rn

imo, perfect offense should not require a mistake

[placid elbow]

so you would like to score without anyone making a mistake? that's how games work

[terse lion]

that's actually not how games work

[left rampart]

irl is a little more dynamic and has more factors than a videogame with its limitations

[placid elbow]

perfect offense vs perfect defense offense should win?

[left rampart]

i dont think u should be comparing to irl too much

[terse lion]

yes

just like irl

just like in other sports games

perfect offense in fifa, RL, 2k, madden?

you score

[placid elbow]

because defense was not perfect

[left rampart]

perfect defense winning out = For Honor

we do not want for honor ..

@vague herald

[placid elbow]

a perfect defense means always blocking the shot

[terse lion]

I mean I'll be honest with you

[placid elbow]

how would a goal go in if the defenders are perfect and dont miss balls lol

[terse lion]

I literally don't know a single sports game or irl sport that perfect offense does not score

[terse lion]

because you make passes where they literally never have a chance to touch the ball

[left rampart]

if u are there to block the shot it was not perfect offense

[terse lion]

Right, so then you can't score

Idk what you're trying to say here

Oh

that was hyk LOL

[placid elbow]

here's an example of a perfect offense vs perfect defense:

[left rampart]

perfect offense is when ur left out of position with no way to answer

even without u making a mistake

[rotund thorn]

But those balls are doable, because the defender did a mistake

[placid elbow]

passer gives the perfect pass to attacker, attacker shoots perfect shot top corner, defense makes perfect block/save

[left rampart]

tiki taka is one example of how to get to a perfect offense but it doesnt work in the box

[rotund thorn]

In a perfect world where defenders would be well positioned 100% of the time, there would never be goals

[placid elbow]

the key words here is left out of position, which would be a mistake

[terse lion]

IN Rematch and only Rematch is this the case, and it's what we are saying is bad

[rotund thorn]

Beecause in perfect world, defender would predict the attack all the time

[terse lion]

Ok we clearly disagree

No worries

[left rampart]

i think ur confusing perfect defense vs offense with an unstoppable force vs immovable object

[rotund thorn]

That's quite logical tho imo

[placid elbow]

brother how can you say that a perfect defense would get scored on

[terse lion]

Show me literally one singular clip of a team with perfect offense that scores that isn't due to a mistake from the defense

[placid elbow]

the point is to make them make a mistake

[rotund thorn]

Im pretty sure you could make an unbeatable AI in sport games

[terse lion]

If you think that perfect defense should never get scored on, then we fundamentally disagree on how the game balance should be

[placid elbow]

that's the point... they havve to make a mistake and you have to make them make a mistake

[rotund thorn]

Brain them

[terse lion]

Again, ANY example of an irl sport or a sports game that exists rn where perfect defense never gets scored on

by perfect offense

that would also suffice

[placid elbow]

you're telling me that if you were a defender and played your part perfectly, not making a mistake you would say "I got scored on because they made a perfect attack"

that means you made a mistake somewhere along that attack

[terse lion]

Yes, just like I would in every other sport or sports game

[rotund thorn]

We're saying that we don't want that 😄

Its normal to have mistakes

[terse lion]

Then you disagree with the foundation of literally ALL sports and sports games

Literally all of them

[placid elbow]

I understand wanting to make defense harder but even then a perfect defender will block all shots no?

[terse lion]

No they wouldn't

Take irl football for example

[placid elbow]

what you're saying is you want the ball sometimes to go through him?

[terse lion]

You can literally shoot a perfect shot that cannot be saved no matter how perfect the defense plays

IN basketball? I can play perfect defense and it loses to a perfect shot

[rotund thorn]

Then nerf gk

I agree long shots are too useless atm

[terse lion]

Baseball? A perfect pitch can still be blasted out of the park

[left rampart]

steph curry is dropping a 3 from the logo on ur defense inches away from his face

[terse lion]

I mean I can go down the list

[left rampart]

ergo perfect offense beating perfect defense

[terse lion]

No sport or sports game exists where this is not the case

[placid elbow]

it's not a perfect defense though is it

[terse lion]

Tooths

Tell me

[placid elbow]

a perfect defense would've blocked that

[terse lion]

One sport

Or sports game

That has what you want

[placid elbow]

brother the point is if you concede a point it means you could've done something better, in every sport

[terse lion]

That is literally not true

[placid elbow]

the steph curry shot from half court you could've blocked that if you put your hand in front of where the ball''s origin is

[terse lion]

Lets use the Steph Curry example

He shoots before you physically are able to reach him

[placid elbow]

the perfect shot to the top corner could've been saved if the keeper did a perfect jump

[terse lion]

Like, it's literally impossible

How is that stoppable?

[placid elbow]

nothing is impossible man

[terse lion]

There are a LOT of things that are impossible

[placid elbow]

aight

[terse lion]

You cannot have a 10 foot vertical

[placid elbow]

alright bro i take it back

i dont mean it literally

[rotund thorn]

Technically, if a defender would predict every single offense movement seconds/minutes ahead, wether they are off-ball movements, passes or dribbling, they would never score. But we are human so we cannot predict as much so sometimes we go slightly off positioning, don't see a striker call, or see a pass combination that leads to a goal

Same applies for GK

and long shots

[terse lion]

Technically, if an offense can predict every defenses prediction seconds/minutes ahead, whether they are jumping passes, making reads, or stepping in front, they would never be stopped

?

[rotund thorn]

Yes

Which is not the case

either

because we're humans

[terse lion]

So that argument means nothing

[left rampart]

irl keeper would have to be off to that side already pre jump, in which case hes giving up the other corner, that is not perfect defense that is giving something up to improve chances of something else, perfect defense implies defense played perfectly within the bounds of your control, it does not imply u can read the future and ur always where u need to be

[placid elbow]

exactly, if GK jumps at the perfect spot every time you wouldnt see that as perfect defense trumping perfect offense?

[rotund thorn]

But it literally means that in both cases, one or either side win because they predicted more than the other

[left rampart]

which i feel like is what u classify it as

[terse lion]

No because an offense can shoot it at a place that is physically impossible to reach even if you time it perfectly within human reason

[left rampart]

like sure if u r always there at the perfect time to block the shot no matter what lead up to that point, defense should win

ball cant just go thru u

[terse lion]

Ok this argument is honestly really dumb LOL

Like it's so pedantic and hypothetical

[left rampart]

it is semantics at this point yh

[terse lion]

Here is the deal

Playing defense in Rematch is EXTREMELY easy

And way too strong

Playing GK is also way too strong

yet they are nerfing offense

and only offense

this is the problem

[placid elbow]

we'll see how the patch goes

you play striker?

[terse lion]

here's the thing, this is already how it is

[rotund thorn]

Yeah we cannot tell with just few hours on patch

[terse lion]

so now it's even worse

like, offense only got nerfed

defense did not change

defense is already insanely strong

[placid elbow]

and yet goals are still gonna go in

[terse lion]

Eventually

[rotund thorn]

Not all offense tho, mainly the volley mechanic mostly

[terse lion]

Goals are already at a premium

I literally went through and grabbed the average from all EU and NA tournaments I could find that had recorded games within a 1 and a half month span

it was, on average, 2-3 goals scored by both teams combined per game

for example, RL has 3-4 goals scored at the pro level and their games are 1 minute shorter

[left rampart]

shorter

[terse lion]

this is WITH missile meta btw

RL games are 5 minutes

[placid elbow]

in a game where both teams play perfect offense and perfect defense, would you want the game to go 100-100 in goals?

[rotund thorn]

unless they didn't right everything in the patch note, they is not much that's been nerfed for offense: https://www.playrematch.com/post/patch-3-1-200-300

[terse lion]

Rematch is 6

[left rampart]

why did they lower it

[terse lion]

Those notes do not contain the EE nerf that this very thread is upset about

[rotund thorn]

I know you can only do 2 headers now etc.. but its not written

so idk

[terse lion]

it has always been 5 minutes my man

[placid elbow]

I 100% agree on the ee nerf that it should be reverted

[terse lion]

Ok then why are you arguing?

[left rampart]

from the game i meant

[terse lion]

That is what we were saying the whole time

[placid elbow]

no it's not lol

[terse lion]

[placid elbow]

you're arguing that a perfect offense should trump a perfect defense

[terse lion]

that was a hypothetical brought up later yeah

(which I'm still right on btw, never got that example)

BUT

the whole point of this thread is that removal of EE mechanics is going to kill offense as it is rn

missile nerfs are great, much needed, nobody will argue that

[placid elbow]

I don't think it'll kill, I do think it's bad though

[terse lion]

It's already almost dead

[rotund thorn]

Missiles were my main concerns tbh

[placid elbow]

dribbling can be very good in a lot of situations but people underutilize it a lot

[rotund thorn]

and by extension the volley meta

[left rampart]

tooths r u rly scoring consistently in tournaments without bullet

[terse lion]

Ok here is my question for you

[left rampart]

esp if the ee changes go thru

[terse lion]

If the top teams in comp currently aren't even CLOSE to being able to use passing and dribbling to break defenses

When will they get there?

[placid elbow]

a bullet is a perfect pass man do you want them to remove that? :p

[terse lion]

And if they aren't doing it right and you know how, why haven't you taken over yet?

[placid elbow]

not sure what you mean

[terse lion]

What I mean is that the people you're arguing with are playing at the highest level this game currently has to offer in our respective regions

We also happen to be the few teams playing team based play and trying to use dribbling to win

You are literally telling us that we are doing it wrong

[placid elbow]

when did I say that?

[terse lion]

right here

[placid elbow]

there I said dribbling is good not bad?

[terse lion]

And we're saying dribbling, as it is, is very weak to good defense

[left rampart]

tooths is good mind u, hes on a team currently better than us (currently 🙄 )

[terse lion]

And now they're removing those mechanics we used that actually worked

Ok tbf I did not know who Tooths played for

So fair

[placid elbow]

all good man I didn't take any offense :p

[left rampart]

i just think toothy is a little optimistic about offense but he makes it work rn

[terse lion]

No offense was meant tbh, I still fully disagree with your take

[left rampart]

so we'll see when patch hits

[mint lynx]

ee changes can somehow be dealt with. Core movement changes ( Especially sprinting push not even working) is the most dangerous one. Take that away and you wont even be able to create tiki taka gameplays

[rotund thorn]

Not sure if being a "comp" team in Rematch is an argument tho

[placid elbow]

I'm saying that a perfect defender should always catch a perfect dribbler, for the dribbler to get through the defender would have to make a mistake

[left rampart]

judging from ur clip earlier grass i think it very much is an argument

the levels of play are night n day

u are not scoring on camavinga

in probably 20 games

[rotund thorn]

Because I don't play in comp does not mean I could not compete maybe

And maybe comp teams are just abusing metas and broken mechanics

thinking they are good

[terse lion]

Here is how this works. Comp players understand the game better than non-comp players. That is just the reality of playing way more hours against the best players in the game. That does not mean, however, that comp players are better at balancing a game. In fact, they are usually pretty bad because they make the game extremely boring

So when it comes to understanding the fundamentals of the game, yeah being comp matters

[left rampart]

doesnt mean u cant ever compete, does mean u are far behind because u havent been improving against top defenses

thats just a fact

[rotund thorn]

Imagine judging on ONE clip.

[terse lion]

tbf hyk is being rude

BUT

[left rampart]

its not just the clip its ur view on the game and the answers uve been giving

[terse lion]

yeah

that

[mint lynx]

Balanced does not = healthy also.

The game needs to be fun more than anything else. Take out the individual skill out of football. Whats there to even watch ?

[left rampart]

i dont think im being rude just realistic, my bad if it comes off rude tho

[rotund thorn]

But you literally said "judging from your clip"

[terse lion]

only that one comment

[rotund thorn]

lol

[terse lion]

yeah essentially this

[left rampart]

why does that mean i can only use the clip

why is it just semantics again now

[terse lion]

but at the same time

comp players will make the game boring because they understand the game better

[rotund thorn]

Yes I may agree on that sadly because the matchmaking is broken. But that said, I have played many times against full stack who was playing the meta

[terse lion]

and also, similar to what you said grass, they often abuse metas and broken mechanics better than anyone

so they would know exactly which ones to remove and which ones to not remove

[left rampart]

like ive said before its completely fine to remove broken mechanics and buggy tech

[terse lion]

literally every single comp player, even the ones on teams that abuse it to an insane degree, agrees on removing missiles

[left rampart]

but not until they replace it with functional streamlined versions

because they do make the game better

bar a few egregious ones

[terse lion]

at the same time, every single comp player also thinks the movement changes in this patch were terrible

well

almost all

[placid elbow]

movement changes only regarding EE cancel

[terse lion]

I'm sure some dummy disagrees

[terse lion]

@placid elbow and this

[placid elbow]

dribbling felt a lot better in patch 3 imo

[terse lion]

and like, the bug where you can push ball constantly at top speed with no stam

shit like that

[left rampart]

have i told u yet about the haze dive

[rotund thorn]

Most boring thing I've seen is comp teams practising meta in 5v5 ranked matches lol

[mint lynx]

you gotta be joking

[left rampart]

[terse lion]

I mean yeah we all agree it's boring

[placid elbow]

aside the EE cancel yes, the animations were smoother and the small push was nice

[left rampart]

tbf most hit elite so long ago ranked is just a testing ground cuz otherwise its pointless

[terse lion]

But you need to understand that the level of defensive play in those matches is better than you've ever experienced most likely

[left rampart]

but it is annoying if ur just playing for fun

and run into them

[rotund thorn]

Like I remember one match where they were mastering the double volley meta, what a waste of time and unfun it was

[terse lion]

and so nothing else truly works

[rotund thorn]

I like ranked because i want it slightly competitive, but i also play for fun so even if the meta is working, i don't want to play like that simply because its not fun

[left rampart]

i rly want a light pushball it just cant be replacing sprint push

[terse lion]

ranked is unfortunately not competitive in the slightest

[mint lynx]

how can someone can even think this kind of dribbling is "Smoother" and better ? it doesnt even look realistic. It looks like the ball is filled with rocks even from an eye of an outsider.

[placid elbow]

it's not though, it's all about the timing

[rotund thorn]

Yeah I guess

[mint lynx]

Meanwhile this is how a true sprinting dribbling works. Not the patch 3 beta's movement killer dribble. But this

[rotund thorn]

There's been a few great defending teams in ranked though. Was really hard to get through

But its rare

[placid elbow]

short pushing the ball is about the timing, once we have played more in the patch with short push we'll understand more of how it works and you'd still be able to do this

[terse lion]

The only nerf to defense in this next patch will be if the missile meta truly is hard nerfed (which I don't think it's nerfed enough tbh), missile teams (aka, almost every single team in NA and EU) will have to actually put more than 1 person in the opposing box

[placid elbow]

I'm saying having the option to both short push and long push is better, how can it not be?

[terse lion]

So there will probably be one less person to go through

[rotund thorn]

They have to fix straight run with EE. like, if you use both tap and EE to run straight you're way slower than just trigerring EE and run into the ball straight, without pressing tap

i think running with EE with the ball should be must faster overall

[mint lynx]

no I've tested the beta long enough its not about timing. It's about timing only when if you are using pushcut to change directions.

I'm almost 99% sure that movement changes are a bug. Because Sprinting Push when in control of the ball acts SAME as NON SPRINTING ones. Meaning it must be a bug

[left rampart]

if both r reliably possible that is good

[mint lynx]

animation + distance 100% the same

[left rampart]

u played the patch u know better

[terse lion]

Considering they didn't put anything in the patch notes about these changes

I definitely think they're bugs

Sloclap is usually really good about noting what they're intending to change

[mint lynx]

thats what all this post is about. If they are intented they shouldnt be because they are concerning. If they are not and bugs should have been addressed because again... its concerning

[placid elbow]

if it is then you're right but I think we can figure out the timing of the short push and it would be great to have both options is what im saying

[rotund thorn]

Anyway, if anything is unbalanced in the next patch it will be improved later, we just have to be patient

[terse lion]

This is why in my balance thread suggestions I said Sloclap needs to make dribble moves that exist into their own animations with their own balancing levers so that bugs like this don't just kill them unintentionally

[terse lion]

We've been patient for quite awhile now

[rotund thorn]

Yeah i know

[terse lion]

The people here in the comp scene? We're the patient people lol

And we've been saying for a very long time that missiles were a problem and that defense/GK was op

[rotund thorn]

They've spent lot of time in fixing bugs, adding content.. but hopefully now they'll speed up the balancing process

[terse lion]

Yeah I hope so

I think this is a rough first step

[rotund thorn]

My. guess too is devs were on summer holidays 😄

[terse lion]

I think you're right, but at the risk of sounding culturally insensitive, that seems like such a wild decision imo

Like, you've worked for years on this game

You release it, the release is NOT going well

and then...vacation?

[mint lynx]

we have short push, kinda. with the timing included. I use it alot to dribble. but when I'm forced to always slow pushes by the game the threath of dribble is completely removed from the game. Unless Max speed dribbling glitch is abused

[rotund thorn]

yeah given the release date of the game they should have anticipate that

[terse lion]

as a dev myself, I would legit cancel vacation guaranteed to fix shit

[mint lynx]

which is worse than golden boost or any techs you guys have ever seen

[terse lion]

there is no chance I just let it sit

[rotund thorn]

Yeah

I found it weird too

[left rampart]

or not release it in summer

[terse lion]

I do think several devs didn't go on vacation

[rotund thorn]

Given they might have earnt lot of money with this game too, they should invest now and try to make quicker releases

[terse lion]

Some of the changes made were very hard changes that don't look too difficult to non-devs

[mint lynx]

they are overcomplicating things. They are trying to do everything at once. even tho they should only touch to the balancing side during emergiencies. Dolphin dive was an emergancy. So is volley priority and missiles. But no one asked them to make movement slower and kill EE while keeping the Defenders sharp and stamine-free

[terse lion]

I do kinda wish they hired a PR manager though, or just someone to have better communication

[left rampart]

some games have community managers

[mint lynx]

For a game that is going to have all of basic accessibility options in PATCH 3 after it's release... They are trying to everything at once too much

[terse lion]

Most do @left rampart

It's very important in the modern gaming world

Gamers are assholes

They're impatient

And they're stupid af

You need someone to be their grade school teacher

And hand feed them information they're incapable of reading themselves

[mint lynx]

the reason why modern gaming exists

[terse lion]

In short, bite-sized pieces so their brains don't choke

[left rampart]

for a live service game it definitely is a must imo

[terse lion]

like right now, for example

I think we should've had an update on thoughts about the beta, we needed an update on what the current plan for the patch release is, and details on why the plan is that way

looking to release today? Should probably have said that considering how big crossplay is for most returning players

Not releasing today? Should probably have said that also and explained why (then ignore the idiots who inevitably come raging in because their parents don't love them)

[rotund thorn]

Yeah, in patch 3 they were supposed to only nerf volleys but seems they did more than that

[terse lion]

Were the movement changes intentional or bugs? Are there plans to fix those before the patch or after?

[rotund thorn]

even in the patch note there is no mention of other things

[terse lion]

All of these things are crucial to communicate

[mint lynx]

I hate modern gaming. release a poor game and then fix later mentality is the worst. Cyberpunk became a great game eventually. How does it known still ? Broken game. wasted potential. a Heartbreak.

Even if a game is made right after it's release with update it doesnt mean rematch will be succesfull. I hope they take every right steps so we can see this game's potential not being wasted. But new patch dropping with new bugs and them being patched with a patch after that is never a good sign

[terse lion]

I think Sloclap's biggest mistake so far in all of this is not having someone on their team who can gather information from the devs and explain it to the community

[left rampart]

cpunk is so fucking good now

esp on pc

sad it still gets bad rep

[mint lynx]

Ikr. But first impression lasts forever

[terse lion]

Every patch will have bugs in this kinda game

[mint lynx]

rematch being no exception

[terse lion]

It's important to communicate about them though

Ok look Rob I like you oh no

[left rampart]

[rigid trail]

No it's like

[mint lynx]

If a game has Netcode its bound to have bugs

[rigid trail]

Sometimes we do have to investigate where do the bugs come from when they appear during a beta

Rushing a communication is the best way to have it backfire later

But your points are legit too I don't dismiss them

[terse lion]

Yeah don't get me wrong, the communication has to be really carefully made

That's why you need a specialist who's entire career is based on that

I think things like, was it intentional, do you plan to fix it asap if not and if it was intentional, what were the thoughts behind the change. Things like that are usually safe to at least say at surface level