Nerf bicycle kicks on cross

[vagrant estuary]

Yeah, i know

I Just send this clip to help the creator

Im adjusting my defense

Im better at It rn

May i got a better sample of this mechanic, but my computer is off rn

The fact is: If you contest at the same position WITH HEADER its completly normal If you lose

But, If you contest Just predicting the trajectory, its way better to defend

I read something about the height of volley and its hits the ball at a higher spot than header

So its useful If you know when use it

At this time, knowing what i know, id say that the volley kick have to be nerfed so the players Will adopt another playstyle

So that Will make the players think a little more and stop to crossing the ball to the box from anywhere

[worthy roost]

Bicycle kicks are really cool, but its like used more than normal shots at goal xD

Bicycle kicks used to be special

[lunar relic]

Completely agree with this post and have made identical posts to this myself. Will completely kill the game soon enough if nothing changes. Good defending and positioning should be rewarded not punished. Strikers shouldn't be rewarded for just sitting in the box spamming volleys and guaranteeing priority over defenders. Absolutely no depth to this sort of meta and gameplay

[knotty jungle]

height still favors shot which i said was first, trajectory comes next but thats player position so a header could quickly get it out with control and without throwing it away but a shot and header met at the same point will still always go shot, then pass, then collect, then keeper dive. Order wasnt changed at all even with context

@still crag i already explained to them yesterday the concept of dolphin diving and positionally good defense as well as the difference between true inputs and deflection inputs as well as giving them a complete input priority list. Every complaint i’ve heard since has boiled down to just skill issue. we’ve given them the ground work, showed them other options but its not our job to hand feed them literally every defensive counter. the game isnt even a month old yet and the general player pop is still getting better. Offense developed a new “meta”, defense needed some time to develop a counter and it has. Now offense needs to adapt again and this will happen over and over again and we’ll see that reflected within the playerbase in coming weeks

@random grove scrim from top 16 teams with one or more player sub. almost 12 minute ot

crosses are not all powerful dude

[vagrant estuary]

maybe good goalkeepers will counter this meta as well

[knotty jungle]

also addressed this yesterday

every argument made completely ignored what goalkeepers can do about it

just play the game and practice guys

[vagrant estuary]

yeah, my goal is learn how to use the dolphin dive to rule these attackers

[knotty jungle]

having your camera facing the guy receiving the ball helps a lot

ball watching kills </3

[vagrant estuary]

it helps a lot, but i mean

at the higher spot of volley

a dophin dive can save

[knotty jungle]

i mean you can always great wall of china with multiple defenders if you all read the cross lol

[vagrant estuary]

and i want to learn

how to be accuracy

[vagrant estuary]

oh yeah i saw it once

[knotty jungle]

accuracy comes with practice and time putting it into use and experiencing it

[vagrant estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/bigrig-truckerlife-truck-driver-truckerswife-gif-26629073

[knotty jungle]

literally exactly how you’re supposed to do this thank you

you guys will all get better and there are still some big issues with the game like netcode and lag and the ball going straight friggen through you, but the stuff that this thread complains about is how the game was designed to work. Dont hate the game, learn how it works and adapt. sometimes you’ll fuck up but you just get back up and try again. like this is my most embarrassing tournament clip so far, it happened in game for a $650 prize pool tournament man 😭 but it was still my skill issue

extra effort and putting yourself between player and ball

goated take

maybe maybe,,, but animations are entirely based on height and distance from ball and are not affected by stamina in anyway (other than ippy slide below 1/3 or 1/2 stamina? i’d have to go back and test it rq but ippy slides stop working below a certain stamina point) but maybe reducing the distance you can interact with the ball, i.e how soon or how late blue diamond appears based on stamina? Like maybe reducing interaction distance by a set amount below a specific threshold that can still be offset by extra effort. though ee mechanics in general are another rabbit hole

[random grove]

Need some context about this match. Did either team actually attempted to abuse bicycles ? And if so, how were they not goals ? Defender win most of the time? GK saved? Attacker didn't aim correctly ?

[random grove]

Of course in this situation it works. But mostly our demonstrations were about when defender is goal side, and both players hit the ball at the same time

TL;DR we agreed that bicycle might need something more than just pressing a button. For example, require enough stam, or requires extra effort etc..

.

[worthy roost]

i mean there is another post somewhere here about how goalkeepers are too op. xD

[random grove]

I mean if keeper has to do the job its because the defense failed

[worthy roost]

truuue

[random grove]

so that is not a viable option

[worthy roost]

so apparently what alot of people are doing is just shooting the ball to the box then bicycle kick it above defenders

[vagrant estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/neuer-save-real-madrid-soccer-gif-8258306

[vagrant estuary]

everyone in SA

[knotty jungle]

they arent at all 😭

goalkeeper is the most difficult position in the game

[worthy roost]

https://discord.com/channels/1055140456184426607/1392331150952890452

xD

its like the opposite post to this one

[knotty jungle]

barcode is considered maybe the top gk in NA rn and i’ve just put a ridiculous amount of time into creating counters and learning proper positioning

huge respect to him he’s crazy

[worthy roost]

dude... imagine having to actually pass and outplay the keeper to score. crazy thought

xD

[knotty jungle]

defender being goalside when attacker receives a pass means YOU FAILED TO DEFEND PROPERLY

dolphin is your ONLY option at that point

header doesnt work

we keep saying that over and over

[knotty jungle]

yes, dolphin dives interceptions and keeper saves, defender won most of the time hu is maybe the best defender is NA right now, gk saves or interception you can see how many there are, both teams have some of the best finishers in the game literally every shot was near perfect top or bottom corner unless they tried to shake us up, not one off target

i have an 18 minute vod but for competitive secrecy i will not post it

im just amazed because we have shown you video after video, even entire games with the highest level of play from stream vods and “pro” play you still sit here and try to say “well because my body was visually in the way it should block it”

PRESS Y

OR TRIANGLE

OR Q OR E whichever one it is for pc but my god the one simple answer when you positioned yourself poorly in every clip you show as evidence is press a different button

the way the game works is it is a different type of interaction. its not a physics game its an input and interaction game. Whether your input is a true push ball interaction or a deflection action is the only difference between being beat and not

im just like

header doesnt work we told you it doesnt work showed you what does work

what the hell else is there

[vagrant estuary]

at this point header is predicting the pass and intercepting at its trajectory

anything else works

if you can't do a header, dolphing dive in front of the attacker might work

[vagrant estuary]

🎯

[humble arrow]

not gonna read the whole thread, but just want to say that this:

not interesting football gameplay
isn't talked about enough I feel

self-served blade shots, backboard play, bicycles, and rainbow spam are not football and make the game extremely un-fun and unsatisfying

all this shit needs to be nerfed hard

pressing a single button to do some crazy acrobatic shit is just incredibly silly

[knotty jungle]

my argument to that is they made every player a zlatan ibrihimovic while still being able to emphasize teamplay and tactics. Individual play is heavily penalized and requires a great deal of skill to pull off but they still made this game look and feel friggen awesome. With good coordination and positioning there are high octane chemical reactions executed to perfection and they look fuckin sick

rainbow spam is easily punished

blade shots most people never even aim properly

[clever patio]

rainbow spam? don't dive in and just tap header away

[knotty jungle]

backboard play is hit or miss for casuals but in pro play they can both be defended against and used to attack with really well

the biggest thing though is that nerfing these things wouldnt help anyone because you’re complaining about people with poor decision making in games. What makes the game fun is teamplay and coordination and that is football

[vagrant estuary]

if you want to play something more realistic, play pro soccer online, i played 1.300h of it, it was sooooo good

[vagrant estuary]

https://streamable.com/l6kuhe

try it @humble arrow

but i prefer rematch

after 1300h

[knotty jungle]

rematch has a low enough skill ceiling for the casual player base to enjoy the game but enough to work with for a comp scene to develop

[vagrant estuary]

yeah

exactly

pro soccer online is hard to learn

harder to master

and has 1000 players

[clever patio]

low barrier to entry / forgiving learning curve

[knotty jungle]

mhm mhm

[vagrant estuary]

a good comp scene might save the game

[knotty jungle]

watch elite series this weekend

EU was really cool but NA imo is a lot more developed

[random grove]

That's the issue. I keep saying that over and over

[knotty jungle]

oh my gooodd

[random grove]

It should at least deflect the ball more

[knotty jungle]

not a physics game

press one

different

button

[random grove]

remove headers then

useless

[clever patio]

headers are used in different contexts...

[knotty jungle]

holy cope dude

[random grove]

headers being useless in box is the weirdest thing ever

[clever patio]

no, it isn't

headers causing you to fly were

lmao

[random grove]

for attackers it is

we agreed on that

You have more chance to score a bycicle thant header

[clever patio]

"weirdest thing ever", even if hyperbole, still would at least imply "soccer in general" and not "in the box specifically in soccer", but that's just me

[knotty jungle]

headers arent useless in box

we told you already is a positioning error

fix your positioning and headers work

[random grove]

For scoring it is better to use bicycle

[vagrant estuary]

ofc

[knotty jungle]

DUH

[random grove]

its:

1. more powerful
2. You can aim wherever you want
3. barely deflected

[knotty jungle]

UNLESS DOLPHIN DIVE

[random grove]

show me clips please

[knotty jungle]

also big long wind up so keeper can read animation

[clever patio]

@knotty jungle im having deja vu

[random grove]

i want to know how many dolphin saved bicycles vs how many scored

[knotty jungle]

its the same thing over and over

[clever patio]

grass has one base opinion: "headers should be better than bicycles almost all the time in the box, unless there's space"

grass doesn't understand that regardless of that opinion, the devs are already wanting to balance things

and that saying the same useless drivel will not help

we've already established you think bicycle is OP, now continue to be on-point and constructive instead of maniacally going in circles

we've even come up with ideas earlier in this thread, like cmon. we don't need to hear "bicycle OP" for the 500th time, pls ty

[vagrant estuary]

its hard

to save with dolphin

but its easy to block blade shots

@random grove

[vagrant estuary]

its about trajectory man

[random grove]

Yeah this one. looks 100% legit i mean

[vagrant estuary]

if you cut the trajectory

[random grove]

Nothing frustrating for the attacker either

[wind schooner]

I'm pretty sure volleys are higher than dive so it's not the best idea to jump manually, especially when the hitbox of your head is so small

[vagrant estuary]

ofc

so true

[knotty jungle]

hitbox is actually larger than your model

[random grove]

The main issue if i sum it up to me is that deflection is nearly non existent in air duel

[wind schooner]

You'll probably only block it if you time it so well that you reach the top of your jump as they kick the ball

[random grove]

we have seen it in clips, the angle is way too low

so maybe adding more deflection could make it more balanced

[knotty jungle]

https://medal.tv/games/rematch/clips/kzLLXYJHQLLajPgjE?invite=cr-MSxuU3ksMzQ3NzQ5NDA0 https://medal.tv/games/rematch/clips/kzM6BAsChZQPRIyTL?invite=cr-MSxxRTMsMzQ3NzQ5NDA0

easiest way to demonstrate is the dolphin dive extra effort setup

hitbox is clearly larger than the visual model

i’d have to splice clips from recent scrims to show dolphin dive cutting off crosses

[wind schooner]

Yeah I know it's larger but it's still extremely difficult to consistently block a volley with a jump

Especially if it is a horizontal jump

[random grove]

But i want to see defensive scenarios

[knotty jungle]

turn camera towards person receiving ball (easier for orientation) and have player model facing them

thats the best advice i can give you but you’d have to practice

[wind schooner]

Might be able to do it by fluke, but hard to pull it off every time when you can barely see the ball

[clever patio]

frame b4 impact, and frame of impact:

[knotty jungle]

i literally just said those were only to show accurate hitbox for deflection

[knotty jungle]

posted this earlier but scrim between top 16 qualifying teams

it is very consistent

i can get clips later

[wind schooner]

I've done sth like this a couple times, but most of the times the ball flew right past me for some reason. Also the attacker should've used a header to pass it to his teammate lol

[knotty jungle]

blade shot going into the box is a very valid attempt

just really good defensive reaction

[wind schooner]

I mean he should've used a header as the finishing move, would've faked the gk and the df

[knotty jungle]

hindsight is 20/20 brother

[random grove]

Got myself saving a volley with dolphin 😉

https://streamable.com/44ozoe

[knotty jungle]

hell yeah bro

good stuff

[random grove]

Trying to think about it more

[jolly tapir]

who are some of the best in NA

[knotty jungle]

like teams or players?

https://liquipedia.net/rematch/Rematch_Elite_Series/North_America

cause these are the top 16 teams NA atm

[jolly tapir]

Is there a discord

[jolly tapir]

Players

[knotty jungle]

links are right there c:

[knotty jungle]

players though,,

if i start naming names some might get mad if i dont include them

[jolly tapir]

I’m from OCE so i just wanna get some ideas

[still crag]

In fairness, I was GRIEFING this game lol shouldn’t have gone to OT

[still crag]

Barcode: best GK
Huu: Best defender
Puffy/SirGrizzles: Best midfielders

Am I biased cause they’re my teammates and absolutely dope people? Absolutely.

But yeah it’s been really odd seeing people just refuse to learn new inputs…glad you have them really putting in efforts to change their approach!

[knotty jungle]

bro vato told us he was a defender then ran all the way up to the wing

[still crag]

Sometimes you just gotta let them fly out of the back. We were trying a lot of new strats against you guys…some might have not worked as well as others

[knotty jungle]

it was good games but man not having the offensive pressure we usually do was rough

lol yeah

[still crag]

In fairness, nobody does against us usually…y’all got about the same amount of real chances as everyone else usually does

The guys in the back on my team are kinda disgusting

[knotty jungle]

yeah but we didnt have rxmy

that kids a freak

[still crag]

Very true, makes a huge difference for sure

[knotty jungle]

yall definitely are tho

[still crag]

I just watch them work and harass you and the defenders

[knotty jungle]

i love when defense makes a gk’s life easy

[still crag]

Very true! Or when the opposing striker griefs and makes your life easier for a game

https://tenor.com/view/tee-hee-gif-16693466337760164069

[knotty jungle]

overshot cross of doom 🥀

[still crag]

Wasn’t even those, we actually played those fine…the 1v1’s

[knotty jungle]

[still crag]

I clipped that Ippy slide goal against y’all though

[knotty jungle]

yeah i got you on those

[still crag]

It will be going into the montage

[knotty jungle]

HEH

from first game?

[still crag]

Yeah 😂

Got 3 of y’all in one

[knotty jungle]

i was telling my tm8s about the limitations of keeper dive and how diving into a dash gets you fucked but that one was actually good lol

you tried it again in one of the last games and i got you that time

[still crag]

Yeah I did it too late

You play really aggressive lol all good though, I have new ideas

[knotty jungle]

i just know timings

[still crag]

Oh yeah I meant too late with how you pushed haha wasn’t used to goalies pushing harder and it definitely threw me off

Anyways, I’ll stop ruining the thread, become dolphin my beloved defenders 🐬

[knotty jungle]

^^

[random grove]

https://streamable.com/3ikpwv