Weapon Deployment Feature Feedback

[crimson olive]

This forum post is to gather feedback related to Weapon Deployment in Arma Reforger

[humble whale]

Will be the first to say that it works great already, love that it seems to not care what you deploy on, any collider seems to work for me so far. Seems even better than the system in Arma 3 already.

I believe @empty swift had some thoughts on how to tweak it for maximum effect on gunplay so I'll drag him in here to detail those

[empty swift]

Not many issues other than the fact rifles are just as stabilized as MGs

I feel that there should be more default weapon sway when standing and not mounted
Resting your weapon and moving from cover to cover should be the meta

MGs should have the best sway and recoil negation due to their bipods, where rifles and other things lightly rested against surfaces should have a little bit of sway when rested, like in Arma 3

[crimson olive]

Hey there, currently there is a bug on that version that makes it so that there is literally no sway what so ever on the deployed weapons, it will be more balanced once the bug is fixed.

[empty swift]

Ohhhhh
That makes sense

[noble vale]

You can deploy weapon on the back of the supply truck. Virtually resting it mid air.

Also with rpk bipod extendes and weapon deployed, you get hand in the face. Refer to facepalm in the screenshot: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2004713508280303981/BA0272A29041F22258B1950731929B61448A994C/

[humble whale]

Do you expect prone deployment to make it in soon or would that come in the next major update?

[crimson olive]

The sway will still be very reduced when deployed (reduced more if deployed on bipod) but not 0. It will mainly be noticeable with longer range scopes.

[crimson olive]

1. can you please specify a bit more, I don't seem to be able to replicate that. Also, please keep in mind that guns tend to "float" when deployed (not too much, but just a couple of cms above the surface usually). It's mainly done for gameplay reasons as it makes deploying on uneven geometry a bit easier.

2. We are aware of this and it's being fixed.

[autumn pecan]

I like that when you turn too much, you'll leave the deployment mode automatically. Makes it feel less clunky compared to Arma 3.

[noble vale]

1. Take rpk, take soviet supply truck, go in the back where interactions for loading/unloading supplies, look along the side of the truck back panel, press c to deploy. Ill try to replicate myself, if you cant get it.

Additionally, while aiming low with rpk+ bipod deployed, while weapon is deployed, animation looks a bit silly.

[crimson olive]

Good repro, already got it, thanks.

[crimson olive]

Hey there, sorry to bother you, but could you provide repro for the second bug aswell if possible or atleast give us some details on what you were doing in game for the bug to occur? (Did you have any gadgets in hand? Is it location specific?) If not, then don't worry about it.

[noble vale]

Sure, see screenshot above, military training area on arland, that utility box, next to the road, next to the garages, just where control point is. Deploy weapon there with bipod and aim down, like low, and check in 3rd person

(Rpk again)

[remote topaz]

One QoL change I would suggest is some sort of UI that would display how much more terrain you have left in each direction.

I often find that I need to adjust left/right, up/down, to get a better shot, but sometimes I pull back too much and I undeployed.

Overall I liked it a lot.

[noble vale]

An advanced feature would be adjusting bipod height. But probs unnececary.

From visual point of view, gun would be held diffrently, with bipod deployed, left hand resting on buttstock stead of supporting foregrip.

[molten matrix]

Is there any downside to just leaving the bipod legs unfolded all the time? Like it feels like it should reduce movement or weapon turn speed or increase sway when the weapon isn't deployed?

[autumn pecan]

#1124268183906426941 message

Not yet implemented

[molten matrix]

Not too sure the post you quoted relates to what I asked - my point is, you can choose to unfold the bipod legs or not, feels like there should be a penalty to leaving them unfolded and running and gunning

[crimson olive]

Oh none yet

[rapid pike]

Are the bipods fixed in place when stood up or do they sway with movement?
Excited to test this out myself.

[cloud barn]

Can anyone tell me what is the purpose of separating deploy bipod and deploy weapon? Wouldn't deploying weapon with a bipod logically leverage the bipod? And why would you deploy bipod if you weren't resting the weapon on anything?

[warm coyote]

I think its for if you want to shoot higher or not, i think its a good feature on separating it since, you can rest the gun in a firing port and use bipod on sand bags

[cloud barn]

Roger - just when I tested I couldn't tell a difference in height it looks like the same firing position above a rock wall and the bipod just slightly clipped the wall... I get what you mean though!

[eternal herald]

I love it, best system in any game ive played so far. I like how your stance changes to match obstacle height, how you rotate around the opint of contact. Perfect!
Only thing I found weird was that the RPK with bipod seemed to be too high

[crimson olive]

The bipod on the RPK is designed to give clearance for the larger magazines. But it is a double edged sword.

[eternal herald]

Another thing I think is perfect is how you can move while the weapon is deployed

[ripe bronze]

I appreciate the freedom of deployment, but too often pressing C the barrel ends up inside a rock, which is probably a death-sentence if you are in a firefight already. Conversely, you can also get a lucky position and effectively blind-fire, with only your spaghetti arms poking out of cover.

[warm coyote]

Mid firefight i really wouldnt use the bipod

[spice wasp]

Great feature and execution! But two bugs or issues so far:

I cant rest the weapon on the ground when prone, with or without the bipod deployed. I assume this is a bug

When mounted on a wall the characters shoulder wont be resting on stock at all, full arms extended and leaning back - just a little odd looking and unrealistic

[noble vale]

Prone resting isnt in afaik so not a bug

[spice wasp]

thatll explain that one then!

[crimson olive]

The stretched arms situation we are watching closely. We are looking to hit the right limits to minimize the weird situations, however we wanna avoid reducing the usability of the deployment from the deployed players perspective too much.

Feel free to post some really extreme cases of stretched arms or situations in which the deployed player is in a weird position. Just know that there is a small amount of jank that is to be expected.

[ripe bronze]

Will AI ever use this feature? Or it's only for players?

[noble vale]

Silly deployment animation i was talking about prior.
You can achieve it for example on this window then moving left and right towards the edges

[sacred solstice]

yeah that happens. ive had the issue witht he hand through the rpk also, dropping that rpk and picking up a new one fixed it for me

also idk if anyone has said this but sometime adsing when deploying on something too close to you causes issues

these 2 are on the front of a humvee

[green thunder]

This one is fun too

[ancient topaz]

PKM animation on deployment is kinda broken looking. What would be better to have is one hand on pistolgrip and trigger while other is on the wooden part that is going to the shoulder (aka buttstock). Here is the picture of reference. Thats actually the right way of holding deployed gun (RPK and PKM) , even if its on ground, or some objects or anything deployed, hand positions shoud be like that 🙂 Hope to see it in-game. Btw I am ex mlitary personal of country that use AK standards, PKM, RPK, AK's and when we had clas about the PKM, they told us to hold it deployed like that

[noble vale]

He is just scratching himself

[spice wasp]

I feel like the players shoulder should always be in contact with the butt of the stock .

The deployment atm is very instant, like theres a magnet pulling the gun to the surface. I know its down to preference, but a slower movement might give the impression of more weight to the rifle and more organic movement

But like I said, great job so far im just being picky. :)

ps, will we ever be able to fix bayonets? 👀

[empty swift]

Bayonets are already confirmed on the roadmap

[cloud barn]

After testing a few times I now for sure think deploy bipod and deploy weapon aught to be one action/keybind. My suggestion for how that would work:
• The bipod deploys depending on the surface height relative to the character model.
• Ie in that first picture, the sandbag wall is at/above shoulder height, so it would deploy without bipod.
• If the deployable surface is below shoulder height of the current stance, then the bipod should deploy.
• If you adjust stance up/down, then this should dynamically stow/deploy the bipod in response.
• When prone with a bipod mounted it should always deploy.
• (and in edge cases where you don't want the bipod because it interferes you can manually remove it from the weapon).

[noble vale]

Nice stance bro

[warm coyote]

I think having two buttons is nice, two different options, pressing two buttons isnt that hard

[empty swift]

Cosmetic choice to have the bipod down while using it
It also affects exactly how your weapon rests on something

There's places the bipod doesn't fit (The windows on Sandbag walls) and having it folded and just resting the barrel of your SAW stuck through it is better for the small hole than with the bipod down and it blocking your vision alot

[warm coyote]

Yeah

[empty swift]

Having the option of both is great cause it offers more minute control over your character

[warm coyote]

It lets you get in the nooks and crannies

Like small windows in the top of the third story building

[empty swift]

Yep

[warm coyote]

No other game offers that other than a3

[empty swift]

Now we just need deployable Tripods like in A3
If I find a good model for them I can make them a Placable Item like the mines

[cloud barn]

Theres nothing in what I described which diminishes that capability. My suggestion is merely that bipod deployment is dictated by your choice of stance relative to the mounting position

[warm coyote]

Think about this, thats more work for devs for that

[cloud barn]

And would prevent the awkward wierd stretch arm stances

[empty swift]

To clarify that in simple terms
If it's a fence, mounting puts the bipod down
If it's a small slit, he just mounts the barrel without unfolding the bipod

Without manual user interaction with the bipod required

[cloud barn]

Essentially

[empty swift]

I feel that that would make it even more buggy and work way less effective

[warm coyote]

Yeah

[cloud barn]

Very posibly!

I'm an optimist

[empty swift]

It's an okay idea but it wouldn't be logically viable with Bohemias track record of half assing things

[warm coyote]

And will the devs even wanna do something like that when there is an easier way,

[empty swift]

^

Why make a game when modders can make it for you

[cloud barn]

I think the devs will want to solve the stretch arm and pose wierdness

[warm coyote]

Why change something if they already work

[empty swift]

Minor animation issues they said they're polishing and working on

[cloud barn]

One of the challenges appears to be the discordance between stance, mount point, and bipod... I'm trying to think creatively around the issues is all!

Its not so much an animation issue as a boundary definition issue: what is considered within range for the character model with reference to the available extent of the mount point

But for sure I see in general greater control (two keys) for players tends to be preferred in Arma with good reason

[warm coyote]

Milsim is more fun when there is buttons

[muted jacinth]

this would be nicer for sure!

i think a few more constraints need to be put in place to ensure the character doesnt get spaghetti arms

[snow gate]

My examples:

https://youtu.be/jH9deaUKBXI
https://youtu.be/3RSN1jKocTw

[green thunder]

With the new deployment tweaks

[noble vale]

Its forhead massager!

[green thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/improvise-adapt-overcome-bear-grylls-gif-10468556

[crimson olive]

Hey, aslong as you're unable to ADS in this position, this is pretty much intended.

[green thunder]

Just checked, can ADS

[noble vale]

The character extends his eyeball out of the socket and tapes it to the buttstock

[green thunder]

Bluetooth eyeball

Its a bit strange. I can ADS in the higher position, but not in the position that should be possible

[crimson olive]

[noble vale]

Somebody forgor a - 😉

[cold magnet]

yep, can confirm. Can still ADS when the ironsight is higher than eyeball

[limpid igloo]

Tree

[tawdry yarrow]

Can we please have a option to fire over cover like this???

Off topic Srry, gonna go shout this into the void rq

[empty swift]

It violates one of the rules of gun safety

never take your eye off the target youre shooting it, know your target and whats behind or around it

Not only will you waste all of your ammo at a wall or a civilian running for cover doing that, youll just get runned down while youre reloading and overran

[tawdry yarrow]

I mean, to be fair the system is in the game to track war crimes and such, just make it a punishable offense reducing xp earned

Still off topic Srry, going to the void

[tacit tiger]

Well it's nice that Arma is considering this stuff but I don't want it to be very restrictive and constantly nudging behaviours like this

[tawdry yarrow]

Would hate for them to shy away from community feedback bc nitpicking

[warm mango]

it would be nice to have some indicator on the hud maybe by where the weapon statues are, a little D or B that come on when you bipod is resting

[jolly jewel]

Does the engine allow weapon holding animation to be switched to different one while deployed?

[ancient topaz]

it does it is actually easy done

[jolly jewel]

I noticed something like that in the components but wasn't sure it was actually that

I must admit it's quite damn based

[tacit tiger]

Automatically exiting weapon deployment when you look too far right/left is a big cringe, i hope this can be disabled

[cloud barn]

Does it happen when you shift aim left/right or freelook? (I personally would prefer to be prevented from aiming my way out of the deployement slot more like A3)

[limpid igloo]

TIL you can mount guns on players

[empty swift]

On their helmets yeah

[limpid igloo]

Even on their arms you can

[tacit tiger]

Yet you cant mount them on the grass???

Unless I am missing something

[limpid igloo]

Mounting while prone isn’t a thing yet but it will be added

[noble vale]

If you just deploy bipod and go prone it already reduces recoil

[mortal kayak]

Soooo... basically blindfire?

[tawdry yarrow]

This should be vanilla. Idc about your war crimes or whatever.

[tacit tiger]

I hope so

Would be useful for FIA TBF 😂 but seriously even tarkov has blind fire, benefits some scenarios

AI could usr it

[muted jacinth]

thats true, and honestly who cares whats behind their target if your in a confined space and being lit up through a corridor! blind fire keeps your head from falling off in some scenarios!

[tacit tiger]

• immersion

[sacred solstice]

i think we need to be able to reload without it unmounting our gun. its annoying to have to set it back up after each mag, particularly on a gun like the rpk

[warm coyote]

I mean only thing thats annoying is that at certain angles you cant aim at all but can deploy weapon

[ancient topaz]

thats called realism

[warm coyote]

depends on the angle tho, i mean like on a window which is about chest level you can aim lower than 0 degrees. for example the 3 story building in beurograd in arland.

[crimson olive]

Prone weapon deployment for bipods is now in on experimental, so let us know what you think of them

[noble vale]

I tried didnt work :/ rpk

[crimson olive]

lies

[noble vale]

Didnt deploy for me.
Also on same note, when using bipod deployed, waist height, you still cant ads even tho you should be able to

I forgor to take screenshot and location for repro, sry

But i have next best thing... hand drawn reproduction

[crimson olive]

Yeah I understand what you mean, AFAIK, it likely won't get better. @modern nexus any idea if you can improve it?

[noble vale]

Its annoying to the point, that i dont use deployment, cause i never know if it will work or not

[crimson olive]

I would disagree it's that bad, considering you can always just deploy without a bipod which helps mitigate the issue quite a lot, but it is an issue. I am not exactly sure if we can improve it.

[noble vale]

What i mean is, in the heat of battle you deploy bipod, deploy weapon ready to start blasting,but... dissapointment, you cant ads.

In my reasoning, i dont rely on function that has chance of failing.

I rather deploy bipod and go prone, as that works 100%

[crimson olive]

Also, the RPK suffers from this the most, if you use different bipoded weapons or just use it without the bipod then may help

[noble vale]

Probs shows cause i use rpk the most

[crimson olive]

So, after some discussion, this seems to be correct behaviour. As long as your gun is above your shoulder you should not be able to ADS while deployed.

On the RPK this makes aiming on targets below you harder as the bipod is very high. You can help mitigate this issue by deploying without the bipod.

As long as you're not able to show me proof that you weren't able to ADS while your weapon was shouldered, we won't be changing anything.

[noble vale]

I will attempt to, once im back at pc.
Counter argument is that rpk bipod is height adjustable irl.

Also it seems that as soon as a milimeter of buttstock is above shoulder ads disingages.

I will also try that prone deployment again.

Irl you can compensate by extending yourself, stepping on tippy toes. But then again im a tall person irl so might not have a feel for it.

[crimson olive]

"Counter argument is that rpk bipod is height adjustable irl."
Pretty sure we already have it at it's shortest, since it needs the clearence for the 45 round mags. It's just a bit harder to work with in game.

Out of all of the MGs we have in game, RPK suffers the most due to it's high bipod, so as I said, try using a different one.

[noble vale]

Y you do this to me, i like rpk

[crimson olive]

I like it too, but the design is annoying :D

Or just use it without the bipod. You can still deploy (except in prone). The RPK has barely any recoil anyways

[gleaming geyser]

Irl? None that I can think off, they are mostly just folded to prevent the bipod from snagging onto things

[molten matrix]

Didn't mean IRL - meant in game - the point is if there's no penalty then there's no reason to not just leave them deployed all the time, which in turn means it's a redundant feature to choose to deploy them

[burnt thicket]

Not sure if here is the right place, but for addition to the deployment system, maybe adding a keybind for hold the breath will be amazing

[noble vale]

As promised. And there is no way in hell someone is convincing me that it should be impossible to ADS from this position... If you need more like these i can provide from various positions.

I've tested the RPK deployment when prone, true it does deploy, but only when bipod is deployed (is that normal)?

[empty swift]

Thats how all weapons are, you can only deploy weapons prone if they have a BIPOD

[noble vale]

ah okay thats intended then.

But still that ADS isnt

[muted jacinth]

now i have trouble ADS with m16 while prone, the camera will clip all the way through the carryhandle on some occesions

[noble vale]

Also is there a diffrence in stability when weapon is deployed, between bipoded and not? (Like in a3)

[cold magnet]

I feel there is a bit of a difference. Deployed and bipoded felt more stable than just simply deployed unbipod. Just test this with M60...

[empty swift]

HUGE difference

When prone you only get 45 degree FOF, and no recoil as if you were on a tripod

When mounted on a rock or log or windowsill or whatever, if the bipod is down, there's a tiny bit of recoil, almost negligible

When mounted with bipod retracted on something waste height, then the recoil can definitely still be felt

As of now you can't mount weapons while prone without a bipod

[noble vale]

On scale from 1 to 36 where # is maximum and Ž is minimum, how huge?

[empty swift]

How huge the recoil negation?

[noble vale]

Diffrence

[empty swift]

Like a solid 20

Bipod nearly removes recoil in every instance

[noble vale]

Hmm thats at least [=========] that much

[crimson olive]

Deployment without bidod lowers recoil to about a third.
Deployment with bidop lowers it to about a tenth.

[muted jacinth]

i think that the prone stablized animation for MG looks amazing, i think the animation should also be applied for crouched and standing deplowment otherwise character looks like they have noodle arms

[crimson olive]

They are handled a bit differently on the technical side, each approach has it's limitations. It's unlikely the same system will be used for both.

[modern nexus]

Thanks for screenshots Marco. In this case, you can see that character's stance is fully standing, so aiming down puts the weapon from your shoulder. We used this as the threshold for ADS. I understand that in those screenshots it looks like you should be able to ADS, but ADS animation currently does not support a weapon above the shoulder. I hope we will be able to look into this problem more soon.
I would like to add that before deploying, you should think if the surface you are deploying on is suitable for bipod. You'll always have smaller vertical aiming window on a high surface with bipod. Also with bipod, more of your body is above the surface, which puts you into a disadvantage over not using bipod.
Thanks for your feedback and I hope this explains the problem you are experiencing.

[noble vale]

I understand the issue, and why it happens. Just that from purely player prespective, its annoying.

Also i understand that deploying bipod exposes me more, but when firing at 200m+, that reduced recoil with bipod makes alot of diffrence. So i see it as a good tradeoff. I ussualy deploy, fire off a mag and move. If i get hit during that time, such is gods will.