enfusion_model

[woven swallow]

It would be nice to know so we modelers have an idea and of course I will have a low poly version but I'd like to keep some shapes high quality.

[delicate condor]

Let's say max 40k for cart like that

Recommendation

Max limits are probably in millions that the engine can run. Buuut no model should really go even near that

[normal quail]

Agreed @delicate condor but its nice to know the limit as I am sure there is one

[woven swallow]

I understand that but all I'm looking for is a rough number. For example DayZ was 33k

[delicate condor]

Millions

[woven swallow]

No way enfusion can take models with millions of polygons

[delicate condor]

Arma 3 can too. Its not very good for performance

[normal quail]

Arma had a limit for sure

[delicate condor]

For sure. Its just alot

[normal quail]

I had to proxy out so much of models back in Arma 3

[delicate condor]

One should need not proxy anything in a3

[woven swallow]

Haha Goat you do 3D modeling bro?

[delicate condor]

A2 yes

Yes

[woven swallow]

I think you're confused brother

High poly and low poly

[delicate condor]

I'm not

They are asking for limits

[woven swallow]

We make high poly to bake details on low poly

[delicate condor]

Yes

I know

[woven swallow]

Then you know. Okay. I didn't mean to offend you. Just saying.

[delicate condor]

I said it's not recommended to try to reach the m
Limits

[woven swallow]

DayZ limit is somewhere around 33k

[delicate condor]

Yes it's still the old A2 thing

It got improved in A3

I'd suspect same trend has continued onwards

[woven swallow]

That's why I would love to know the limits so I can have an idea where am at.

[delicate condor]

Millions

Limits and recommended count is 2 different things

I recommend max 40k tris for your cart

[woven swallow]

Not possible. Not even COD Warzone can handle a model with millions of polygons

[delicate condor]

I'd suspect cod Warzone is not the best comparison point then

[woven swallow]

Why not ?

I'm not trying to have a discussion here. Just want to be clear on the matter.

[delicate condor]

It's couple of years old console game

Likely geared towards optimized models

[rugged nimbus]

In A3 I have loaded a couple of times a 95000 vertex model

No probs loading it and with 16 sections, textures weren't a problem either

[woven swallow]

How about the memory usage ? Imagine rendering multiple of those objects in a single scene

[swift goblet]

Actually most engines support millions of verts, the limit commonly it's not on the engine, instead is on the graphic api

[woven swallow]

In game

Lol

The limit is when you start seeing loading times and memory usage, frame drops and all sort of lags

[swift goblet]

The engine what primarily does it's telling to the api what to render

[pearl otter]

anyone know how to hide helmet in first person veiw?

[swift goblet]

That limit is hardware based, not software based

[woven swallow]

Then why do we make low poly versions of our models ?

[swift goblet]

Hardware limits

[woven swallow]

Hard limitations for who ?

The player ?

[swift goblet]

Yes

[woven swallow]

I'm sorry I'm trying to wrap my head around it

[swift goblet]

You can make a very high poly game, but if you need a 20k usd pc, then no one will play it.

There are limits based on software and limits based on hardware

[woven swallow]

But what would be the reason to upload a high poly model if only those with "high end computers" can use it ?

[swift goblet]

Stress test? Idk. I recommend low poly for playing

[woven swallow]

So. There is a limit to where you can't simply play the game. In dayz for example Models that get close to 30k they make your game laggy AF and even crash

[swift goblet]

Do you use LODS?

[woven swallow]

Yeah what's low poly to you ? Why not have a recommended count so we modelers can squeeze our models to get the most out of em.

[swift goblet]

Lods are very important

[woven swallow]

LODS are different subject in my opinion

[swift goblet]

It's part of everything

[woven swallow]

Those are for different distance

I'm talking about close up or models in your vicinity

[swift goblet]

Graphic apis today don't render what you don't see

With the sum of lods

[woven swallow]

Brother you're moving to another question I believe

Or matter

[swift goblet]

It's all connected

[thorny galleon]

Use Arma Reforger Opacity Map called HeadClipping_A.edds on your data assets emats and enable Allow User Alpha Bias and Disable User Alpha in Shadow under general tab

[woven swallow]

Indeed. But that's not what Im looking for. My question is.
What is the limit or recommend poly count on 3D models for Enfusion engine. Before we start losing performance.

[swift goblet]

You always lose performance, if you are rendering 40k models moving of 40k poly count each it will crash your game, so everything is about what are you modelling, and how it's used.

For example, weapons commonly on reforger are around 10k verts, while other things are around 40k verts, and all have lods.

I recommend you take care for lods

Instead of poly count by itself.

Maybe not goin more than 100k verts, because it's an unnecessary level of detail no one will notice

But it's my recommendation

Which varies person by person

[woven swallow]

Other models are less quality because are not that important in the scene

But okay. I'll check the sample models from BIS if we are allowed to learn from them by opening them in blender. Thanks for the little discussion here haha no big deal.

[sly bridge]

that is false. weapons are not 100k. lod0 is about 14k.

[hot pumice]

There is a function for it in engine

[swift goblet]

Miss written

[last parcel]

Yea was going to say that , a car could be as high as 40k

[woven swallow]

So I'll take 40k as my poly count cap

[sly bridge]

it depends on what you are doing

also it depends on your skills to making lods properly

[last parcel]

Or take a look at the sample car and check the polycount to get a rough estimate on how much to aim for

[swift goblet]

I did tests with cars UpTo 400k verts (with lods of course) and worked perfect

[woven swallow]

This @sly bridge

[swift goblet]

This is what I say, lods are the important thing

[last parcel]

It might work perfekt but try it with allt and it wont work as Great

[swift goblet]

Of you have something with 1 million verts with lods correctly made, it will work.
It's an unnecessary level of detail, and will waste a lot of memory but it will work.

[woven swallow]

Now try spawning a bunch of those 400k models near you and enjoy the frame drops

Like a waterfall

I might be wrong haha

[swift goblet]

That's the thing, thanks to lod it will not crash

You can make the lod to only appear if your camera is literally crashing on the model

[opal moat]

I saw that bi is supposed to have documentation somewhere as a guide to all the modding in enfusion. Does anyone know where that is?

[swift goblet]

So all of the other 400k models are simply not rendering

[woven swallow]

Level of detail. In arma it goes a bit heyond just that though. You will have a few lods i.e. 1.000, 2.000, 5.000 and 10.000. Those basically scale your object in distance. I.e. the lower the number, the closer you are to the object, hence the more detailed it should be. The further away you get the more detail falls off. It will have a smooth transition if done right.

Found that on Reddit

[swift goblet]

You can set lod distance on arma reforger

You can make a lod appear only at 15cm from the camera, at 50cm other, and at a meter other

[sly bridge]

in arma3 you cannot set distance, it is auto generated

[swift goblet]

It's unnecessary do that, but you can

[swift goblet]

Correctly

[opal moat]

Will it do that automatically or do you need to make separate models for each distance?

[woven swallow]

@sly bridge could you confirm that ? You can use a 400k models and it will work great as long as you do the LOD's right.

[swift goblet]

You make different models and it sets the distance automatically as I understand of how it worked on arma 3

[woven swallow]

So the LODs do ? Decimate your model ? 😂

[swift goblet]

Lods are models that are rendered based on distance

[woven swallow]

Then ? That's what I've been saying this whole time.

[swift goblet]

It's not decimate becouse you can make it look like a bike at 1 meter and as a car at 100 meters and as a plane at 500m (you are very troll if you do that)

[woven swallow]

Let's ignore the LODs for now. I understand what LODs do. However a model that is 400,000 poly counts can't be right

[swift goblet]

Also as I said, too much polys it's unnecessary, no one will notice it and just wastes memory and drive space

[swift goblet]

That you can do something doesn't means you should do that

[sly bridge]

* AK74 - 16k verts / 18k tris | magazine - 2.8k verts / 3.7k tris
* m21 - 16.5k verts / 19.7k tris | magazine - 1.6k verts / 2.1k tris
* m16 (no handguard) - 12.8k verts / 14.4k tris | magazine - 2.2k verts / 2.9k tris
* SVD - 17.2k verts / 19k tris | magazine - 3.4k / 4.8k tris```

[woven swallow]

So basically what you're telling me is that I can upload a 400,000 poly model and reduce the quality with LODs so it runs better ?

[sly bridge]

@woven swallowwhy would i confirm that

400k whatever is not a game asset

you need to learn to do game assets

[woven swallow]

So no one can give me an estimate limit on poly count for enfusion engine on models

[swift goblet]

That's becouse it varies person per person, and how you want to use it

[woven swallow]

I need to learn ?

[sly bridge]

there is no asset limit, the limits is the DX12 limit, which afaik is 2^32 normal vertices

[swift goblet]

400k it's a monstrosity no one will notice, it's a waste if time working on that amount of verts, and just increases your mod size and memory consumption for nothing

[sly bridge]

ahh yeah....you do

[swift goblet]

It will work a model of 400k? Yes it will

It's recommended? No

[sly bridge]

back on the question at hand - always use vanilla as a sort of ball park number for assets

cheers

[swift goblet]

Having a 400k verts it's like having a Lamborghini to go to the countryside on a grass road.
No one will see you going on that Lambo. It will need repairs constantly becouse its not made for grass road. So it will consume a lot of money. While using a 4x4 truck would be cheaper and better for that work.
You can go to countryside with a Lambo of course, it's not recommended, and a 4x4 truck is better for that.
I hope this analogy helps (I'm not too good with analogies)

[woven swallow]

I'm done here. My question wasn't answered. I guess I'll have to investigate sample models. And this guy is telling me to learn when I'm a 3D modeler for years.

Thanks though. Have a great day.

Here's one my models. https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/camping-fuel-can-96804089d54649239cc48b3903180634
I need to learn 😂

[swift goblet]

It's not about know how to model

It's also being able to run on real time becouse its a game

If you put a Pixar model on arma reforger without lods, it will probably crash players pcs

And dont waste resources

[swift goblet]

Nice model btw looks great

[sly bridge]

1. i answered your question - the limit is 2^32
2. i told you to learn to model for games, not in general
3. here’s a few cans i did, under 2k each - https://twitter.com/rhspufu/status/1288593677737222145?s=21&t=mXy4TNBCepdf9G7jUP0hUg

PuFu (@rhsPuFu)

soooo...i’ve been doing some more #Arma3 cans for @rhsmods

Twitter · Jul 29, 2020, 9:54 PM

[swift goblet]

Nice cans too

[woven swallow]

Then I apologize for misunderstanding haha no big deal brother. Once I get home I'll get back to it. I'll check out your cans too. Thank you guys.

[delicate condor]

@woven swallow I've given you rough 40k tris as max for your cart many times now.

[swift goblet]

Here's a bunch of questions that helps to do at the moment you do each model for a game:
Will it run correctly on low tier pcs?
People will see this level of detail on the asset if I put an extra work to have more verts? Does it worth?
Does it worth to increase disk and memory usage for having a better model?
How I will set the lods?
How performant is the model?

These questions helps a lot understand why high poly models are bad as game assets.

[opal moat]

Anyone attempted rifle grenades yet? I’m thinking that would just be tied to the grenade launcher mechanics just with different animations.

[swift goblet]

Rifle grenades? What's that? Im not a English native, you mean something like a m79 grenade launcher?

[swift goblet]

Oh I see

[willow sage]

Nice conversation you had here guys.

[dense plover]

L85A2 and up had UGLs

[patent flower]

I’m enfusion can we hide sections of a model like we could in a3

For example a helmet with scrim added

Can we set it up for both variants using the same model

[white plover]

is there something on the wiki about changeing hand anims./ location of the hands

[unique current]

how do i get a helmet i've created to stick to the character's head? i don't see a clothing/helmet tutorial on the wiki

[plain citrus]

How can i know what to add here ?

[wanton vigil]

Actually I have seen millions of triangles in one model and it worked ...but expect pretty bad performance then.

Pure Everon environment scene usually ranges very roughly from around 500k to 2 or3 mil triangles I believe + ground clutter + compositions + soldiers and cars.

As environment artist I right now do not remember the numbers exactly ...but soldiers and cars are done in around 50k I think...BTR might be around 100k maybe.. You should be able to check it in workbench yourself. Anyway LODs are essential so the game run smooth.

[plain citrus]

Exactly here

im lost

its for a helmet

because i have a little problem x)

[tacit eagle]

the issue i had when doing that was, did you reimport with skinning or what ever its called

[woven swallow]

The mistakes I keep seeing in models specially in vehicles is that wheels and steering wheels are not round enough. If you make a car and the wheels don't look good then the rest of the model doesn't look good. That's something I learn from pros.

[plain citrus]

i have reimport with skinning but i have 0 + 163 bones

[tacit eagle]

ok you added the vertex group, but did you add the weight to it?

[woven swallow]

We were talking about individual models.

[tacit eagle]

didnt that one FF14 model have 1.9mil tri's?

[plain citrus]

what do you means about weight ? I'm lost x)

[tacit eagle]

in here, you see how it says head?

with the helmet selected, go into edit mode, select everything with the A key then click assign

[plain citrus]

Oh ok here

[plain citrus]

better like that ?

[tacit eagle]

here is an example

in this menu

[wanton vigil]

Me too when I mention the soldiers and vehicles. Sorry for misunderstanding ...with the environment I just wanted to give you some overall image about the scene complexity.

[tacit eagle]

yes, now select your helmet mesh in the view port, and go to edit mode

[opal moat]

Where do I get the character models for building off of for Blender?

[merry python]

any way that you can record the process when importing it into game?

[prisma delta]

Hey guys, I noticed that hard bevels are rendered as soft corners. In the video above you can see the seat corner is only 3 rectangles but it's lit as if it's a soft corner. Is this something to do with engine lighting like Blender's "shade smooth" or is this done through texture work? Like I said before, hopefully it's not a stupid question but I'm not used to modeling for games.

[solemn goblet]

The highpoly probably had rounded corners and is baked into it to give it this appearance.

[tacit eagle]

iirc blenders "shade smooth" just uses phong shading which is a common thing in modern engines

also high to low poly normal map bakes as stranger said

i think i misunderstood your question lmao and stranger was closer to the answer you want

[prisma delta]

Ah okay, so it's modeled high poly, baked, and then the poly count is optimized and the lighting is applied over it, right?

[tacit eagle]

basically when you bake high to low poly you are creating a normal map which basically uses the light to "trick" the end user into seeing detail that isnt there

[fathom bolt]

for information :

Weapons :

AK = 15 926 faces (triangulates)
M24 = 19 715 faces (triangulates)
M16 = 14 325 faces (triangulates without handguard)
SVD = 19 081 faces (triangulates)

Vehicles :

BTR body = 165 016 faces (triangulates)
UAZ469 = 78 121 faces (triangulates)

[solemn goblet]

Yep, something like match by mesh name in substance. The normal map is information used by the engine. Light (shadow) might be applied over it like a baked AO but newer proprietary engines usually have some form of SSAO instead (like Unreal). Usually poly count is optimized first before baking a normal map.

Here's an example of the rounded edge on a sharp edge effect.

[prisma delta]

Alright sweet, thanks for your help guys. That's a new workflow to me so we'll see how it goes lol

[solemn goblet]

Yep. Be sure to bake individually to avoid intersectional errors.

[plain citrus]

It's possible to automatically set correctly Vertex Groups? For a Plate Carrier here

[zenith quartz]

Gettin' somewhere.

[dense plover]

LALA

[vocal belfry]

How ya'll get so good at blender?

[eager hill]

Practice

I'm not good at blender, but that's basically the only way to create good models. Lots of practice

[plain citrus]

I have try automatic weights in blender for plate carrier but ...
Someone have solution ?

[tacit eagle]

same, i have 700 hours in blender and my one and only model is absolute shit

[vocal belfry]

So... Like clay and marble. Each art-form takes it's own skillset that you develop overtime

[solemn goblet]

It looks like you have splits in your mesh. The automatic weights did an okay job, you'll have to clean them manually though. I good strategy I learned is to duplicate the character mesh and reference the various vertex group 'heatmaps' on it.

If you export with any edge split modifiers these splits can happen. You can select the entire mesh by going into edit mode > a > and then hitting m > merge by distance

[tacit eagle]

A split mesh like that could be fixed by merging by distance

[solemn goblet]

Haha yep. Was saying that as you were saying it. Cheers.

It's totally fine to use edge splits by the way. They're an easy way to keep normal vectors completely planar.

[plain citrus]

I think i dont have split in my mesh (Sorry im currently learning ...)

[solemn goblet]

Join sub alpha and stream your blender, I'll be in soon

[plain citrus]

Ok thx !

[fast notch]

why is it taking so long to import?

[rain wadi]

Practice. Getting good at something takes time and determination. Some people get there faster than others but everyone has to practice to get to a certain level.

[daring condor]

because its way to fucking large

800k tris for that is absolutely awful

[fast notch]

understood thanks. I'm new, just experimenting 😄

[tacit eagle]

idk thought this would be a cool thing to fit in here

[tacit eagle]

lets more then double that
https://twitter.com/DeathChaos25/status/1505256711791255554?s=20&t=mBAQY7pt0KGdxYdqJATAXw

DeathChaos (@DeathChaos25)

@UltimaShadowX There's a boss model in SoP that's 90mb (the geometry alone, no textures or anything) and it has like 1.8 million tris and im just like, who let this go through?

Likes

675

Retweets

150

Twitter · Mar 19, 2022, 6:55 PM

[daring condor]

i mean

what the actual fuck

[vocal belfry]

This was an attempt to see if the process worked... It did not.

[surreal ore]

@mint hollow Not to target you specifically, you're just the BI person that I've seen the most. Could you possibly find out if we could get the pose library for the example rigify character or a full blend file? So we don't actually have to manually Tpose the character.

[ornate bane]

Think I'm in the right place here but is porting a3 assets to Reforger Kosher?

[white plover]

if you have the source/ debinarised. and its not your asset yh its kosher

[ornate bane]

Forgive me if I am getting the nomenclature wrong... source/debinarised meaning a .fbx file?

Basically I just want to take some of the vanilla a3 assets (namely magazines) and bring them over to reforger.

Not sure where I'd find the source files though.

[daring condor]

nope

gotta wait for the a3dpl

[ornate bane]

Whats that?

Oh do you mean like a public data package like they did for A2?

[opal moat]

Still cant find the character models for making clothing in reforger please.

[solemn goblet]

https://github.com/BohemiaInteractive/Arma-Reforger-Samples I found this, probably not great help but it's a good resource.

[opal moat]

Already looked at that but thank you. Not sure how I am supposed to get the proportions right for equipment if I cant build it around a character model in blender

I must be missing something

[solemn goblet]

I don't think the underwear man is in the samples but maybe there is a proprietary > fbx method out there ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[opal moat]

On my first attempt on making weapons someone told me to keep pieces like the stock, magwell, etc. separate objects. Is this good? I am mostly concerned about the magwell clipping into the stock, will that cause me problems when I port it to the engine?

[keen wigeon]

if you can't see it then i don't think so

once you import it into the game, it will be just one big object right?

so the only thing you need to worry about is Z fighting in the case of visible overlapping geometry

[solemn goblet]

Yeah, I think he's worried about z fighting. What you see in Blender will be what you get in the engine. Obviously there are ways to interpret what I'm saying here to be not true but I'm mostly just talking about mesh display.

[opal moat]

So what I as long as there arent any problems with shading in blender it should be fine?

[keen wigeon]

yes

[opal moat]

typo

You get what I'm saying lol

Thanks

[keen wigeon]

since you're new to 3D modelling, make sure to make your mesh out of quads and not Triangles, and especially not N-gons lol

[solemn goblet]

Yep, what it looks like in blender will be how it looks in-engine. This includes normal vectors in crazy tangents and shade smooth/shade flat

[keen wigeon]

Ngons are a no-no, triangles aren't as bad, but it's good practice to try and not use them

[daring condor]

Good rule of thumb, not all that important (in hard surface)

But generally

Try to stick to clean topology (mostly quads)

And honestly

Don't start with anything you want to put in game

Your first couple of models will look like shit

Such is the curse of being a beginner

[keen wigeon]

idk, i think this makes for some easy motivation, even if in the end it looks like shit and you fail miserably to import it

i find practice for the sake of practice hard

[daring condor]

Eh

[solemn goblet]

The best tutorial in my opinion isn't the donut tutorial but the apple one IMO. I'll try and find it

[daring condor]

Guns are a bad starting point

Way too complex

Will kill your motivation

[keen wigeon]

yeah lol, i think my first model after the Donut was an AR-18

[solemn goblet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j14b25SnYRY&list=PL3UWN2F2M2C8-zUjbFlbgtWPQa0NXBsp0 This is a great tutorial to get you familiar with Blender

[daring condor]

Mine was an rpg-2 lol

[keen wigeon]

abandoned it and when i came back to it some months later i cringed at the topology lol

[daring condor]

It was horrible

Didn't know about auto smooth

[keen wigeon]

the receiver surfaces were just one giant Ngon lol

[daring condor]

First actual model was an ak-12

Took months

Way too high poly

And trash topo

But regarding ngons

They can help you

[opal moat]

I did make a donut already, definitely need more practice

[solemn goblet]

I made a knife back in 2008 before blender could even calculate normal vectors for itself and I thought the poorly generated normals looked like a metallic shine

[daring condor]

Lol

I use ngons to stop edge loops sometimes

[keen wigeon]

my second decent project was an old school walkman, was very happy with the results

[daring condor]

Or stop the triangles on bevels

[solemn goblet]

Tell me you wouldn't hire me come on lets hear it

[keen wigeon]

even made a roughness, metallic, and etc. maps in Gimp

height map as well

[solemn goblet]

Does enfusion use metal/rough?

[daring condor]

I have not done anything I'm really proud with

Current WIP maybe

But egh

I'm soo slow

First finished project

Disregard the giant tris

Those are me fucking up proxies

I forgot to bevel bake on that one

[solemn goblet]

This is the most recent thing I have made, can you guess what universe it's supposed to be

[opal moat]

Niiiiice

Variant of a TX-130?

[solemn goblet]

That's ArmA 3 right?

[daring condor]

One that may get you in trouble here

[daring condor]

Mine? Yeah

[solemn goblet]

Ah okay. Are tracks a thing in Enfusion yet? What makes my tank a troublesome thing?

[daring condor]

Star wars

Big no-no in Arma 3 modding

[opal moat]

Disney copyright striked a star wars mod a few years ago

By striked i mean they sent a cease and desist

[daring condor]

Some people ripped tons of Star wars Vidya assets and caused an incident with Disney legal

[keen wigeon]

yeah, star wars stuff is basically Banned from official channels like this discord iirc.

for legal reasons

[solemn goblet]

Well, the image isn't specifically for Enfusion so much as it is showing my ability to make vehicles I guess haha

[opal moat]

Makes me nervous for the modders that are actually building their assets from the ground up based on that IP.

[solemn goblet]

I'd join a team asap if they were making Warhammer 40k stuff but I'm pretty sure that IP is even more dangerous lmao

[daring condor]

Yeah that's a clean model

Surprisingly

No

There's multiple 40k mods for a3

[opal moat]

And as far as I know the SW mods that are active in a3 havent had any problems because they arent monitized and didnt steal their assets from battlefront.

I think they were only upset because they ripped assets.

[solemn goblet]

That makes sense.

I think the 40k mods use personal artwork at least and it's not really detracting from 40k miniature sales

[opal moat]

Btw here's my progress so far, how does my topology look?

[solemn goblet]

It follows the form, what more do you need

They should probably follow a form more like this but I mean you have to ask yourself if best business practices really matter. Get the shapes right. Figure out the vertex groups and rigging. That stuff is way more important to know from a proprietary standpoint

[opal moat]

Good to know, so from your illustration it looks like my main priority should be to make squares as opposed to rectangles right?

[solemn goblet]

If you're just poly modeling it, sure. It doesn't matter so much. Understanding the enfusion engine will take way less time than becoming a hard surface god and in my opinion it's more important.

[opal moat]

Got it. My goal isn’t necessarily to port this to enfusion, although that would be nice, it’s just to get practice on more complex models.

[solemn goblet]

Oh well that's different then

I'd suggest looking on ArtStation or Sketchfab at random guns and checking their wireframes.

Straight up copy people. Obviously don't sell it or share it online as if you made it yourself, but understanding how people make things can help you make things in the same way.

[opal moat]

I have only ever completed 2 other things in blender. My very first project was a few years ago and it was a gun similar to this one. Everything was wrong but I finished it. Just now getting back into blender after years and made a donut, that is the first time I have ever paid attention to topology and now here I am.

[keen wigeon]

What's the design of your gun BTW

Can you show the concept image you made?

Assuming that's what's in the background ofc.

[daring condor]

Modelling is more important imo

[keen wigeon]

I'm just curious on the design itself

[daring condor]

It's actually a transferable skill

Better to learn the stuff that's applicable more generally first

At least enfusion has less arcane workflows than real virtuality

[daring condor]

Also that cylinder is way to dense

32 sides is overkill most of the time

[keen wigeon]

Oof, yeah, I tried learning RV and just gave up.

[daring condor]

I generally stick to 18 or 24 sides for most circles

[keen wigeon]

16 has worked well for me

[daring condor]

I don't like going powers of two

[keen wigeon]

But that's personal preference at that point

[daring condor]

In my subjective experience ngons with odd number of sides pass easier for circles

And 9 sides is what if consider the minimum for something to look decently circular

[keen wigeon]

I usually just use grid fill to fill circles

[daring condor]

So it's good for lodding

I just fill it with an ngon

And then triangulate later

Ngons are your friends

If you know how to use them

And certain ngons really don't hurt you

Grid fill leads to excess tris

And blender allows you to get bevels with even the worst topo

The cone and cube aren't even Boolean unioned, they are just intersecting

[opal moat]

This is a rough early version of it. I plan on refining the design and making it flow better during the modeling process.

[keen wigeon]

Interesting design process

[opal moat]

Remember ‘Pimp my Gun?’

[keen wigeon]

Not really

What's the caliber btw?

[opal moat]

It was a flash game where you could take parts of guns and smash them together.

[opal moat]

6.68x44mm

This is a worldbuilding project of mine.

[keen wigeon]

Little short round then, makes sense why the magazine is skinny like that.

[opal moat]

Also telescoped.

[keen wigeon]

I'm guessing the ejection port on the right is just for the reference image?

[opal moat]

You can see the round below the magazine above 5.56x45 and 7.62 nato

[keen wigeon]

Left*

[opal moat]

It’s meant to be ambidextrous

There are just things in that program you can’t communicate very well. For example the stock is weird on that picture but makes a lot more sense when you see the 3d model.

(When it’s done lol)

So I’m mainly using that image as a reference and making changes on the fly to refine the design.

[keen wigeon]

I do think the Picatinny handguard fits a lot better than the G-36 style one

Actually, I could see it looking cool with a SCAR style charging handle near the front.

[opal moat]

I’ve considered doing that but I think I’m going to go with a G3 style charging handle.

[keen wigeon]

Yeah, I actually thought of that before the SCAR idea, but the Scar charging handle just seemed to fit a bit better

[opal moat]

Yeah it’s the rails on front.

[keen wigeon]

Having that slot to lock the bolt could impact the rails on top tho

[opal moat]

I just decided to go with the G3 style because the people using these rifles are typically wearing heavy gloves so an oversized charging handle is needed.

[opal moat]

Yeah that’s one of the things I’m having to work around.

[keen wigeon]

Nice, excited to see what it turns into.

[opal moat]

I’ll post updates 🙂

[woven swallow]

this is interesting

[wanton vigil]

Do this tutorials and you will know how to do weapons or any hard surface in Blender. Also the flashbang and bullet tutorials are awesome...yet a bit more basic.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/NxAoLz
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8enBow
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/eae8Xw

[delicate condor]

@shrewd kelp remove the posts and don't use ripped assets.

[shrewd kelp]

So we cant use those assets?

[delicate condor]

Nope

[shrewd kelp]

So its not allowed on workshop?

[delicate condor]

Nope

[shrewd kelp]

lame

[delicate condor]

We do not condone stealing. Nothing lame about that.

[shrewd kelp]

I dont see the problem cause im not making money off of it at all. Also the game is almost dead on pc so the models aren't being used anymore. I dont see the difference in making the model myself or pulling it from the game its the same thing. Guess I wasted 30 hours of my time porting this. I feel like there is no difference in making it and porting it its both intellectual ip. You would think both would not be allowed.

[delicate condor]

Well for star wars you are not allowed to make it either. Not without permission from Disney to use star wars IP.

Game being old has nothing to do with anything either.

[shrewd kelp]

Such a shame. Disney has done a bad job at making star wars games so the fans want to make them for fun but cant legally which is a shame. The star wars mods on arma 3 look fun but it ran so bad that I didn't give it a shot. With this I was hoping to. Looks like I wont be able to either.

[delicate condor]

Nope

[split rampart]

Just make custom assets that look similar and call it "Lazor Warz"

[eager topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z5jYfh6mIw Finally, seeing this behemoth in game is surreal 🙂

[sly bridge]

it isn’t the same thing whatsoever ripping a model and making a model. The first is not yours, it is theft

[eager topaz]

I agree, if the license doesn't allow it, just make ya own 😛

[bleak depot]

hey, i doing something wrong? i make a door and add a Hierarchy Componet. But my PIVOT ID is Empty... in model i have a scene_Root -> Door_axis (Locator/Bone). i check the vanilla doors. but gimme no information to fix that. any idea? I use maya
https://prnt.sc/XDmxrmzW80TW https://prnt.sc/Q0lXr2ldN_gE

[tacit eagle]

Is anyone working on placeable explosives (aka satchel)

[bleak depot]

hierarchy Component - Pivot ID (Object properties) worked only with parent models in hierarchy of the world editor or prefab. first hierarchy objekt need locator or bones. https://prnt.sc/RTQPZi__IDua https://prnt.sc/FMbr0oMswofV

[sly bridge]

would be nais when you found the solution to also post about it, if possible, so other people can use the search function on this discord to find out if they have a similar issue

[bleak depot]

@sly bridge rdy

[sly bridge]

@bleak depotthanks man

[pastel bluff]

Hello

What tangent basis is used by the reforger?

Aka mikkt or something else?

[tacit eagle]

@tacit eagle did the balaclava ever get completed?

Is it in the workshop?

Do you have plans to release it

[willow sage]

Hey guys, memory points have to be attached to root or something?

[zenith quartz]

Mikk worked for me.

[split rampart]

So im guessing recreations of weapons from known IP's isn't allowed?

[delicate condor]

Known ips?

Like?

[dim gate]

you meant fictional weapons used in other movies/games ?

[split rampart]

I mean I guess it doesn't matter if I just retextured it, but once there's a melee framework mod I might put dis model in game

[dim gate]

technically yes, you can

[split rampart]

really proud of dat one

[delicate condor]

Where's the model from?

If its from some game, then that's a nono unless you obtain permission to use the model

[dim gate]

i think

recreations of weapons from known IP
meant that he made the model

but he want to know if the model he made can have the same tex or need a different one

[delicate condor]

Let's just let them answer

[split rampart]

I mean I'd just retexture it because I have no love of the IP anyway lol

my model

[delicate condor]

So whose IP would you be breaching?

[split rampart]

definetly* from softwares

[dim gate]

if it's weapon from a movie, go with original tex, it's fine
but from an other game, i'll go with a retex, people will think you probably ripped it and report you

[willow sage]

Is there reason why it keeps happening ?

[split rampart]

I mean people thinking that my model is ripped from someone who's a better modeller than me is flattering

[dim gate]

inverted normals

[delicate condor]

Show wireframe too

[dim gate]

select all > normals > recalculate outside

[delicate condor]

Triangulate it manually

[dim gate]

don't

it's an inverted normal

[delicate condor]

The blue shows all faces are facing the camera

[dim gate]

oh my bad, i forgot about that feature

[delicate condor]

Stuff could happen on export though

[willow sage]

Ok, reimporting lets see if something else happens

[delicate condor]

Make sure there isn't inverted double face there

[willow sage]

You have right, when i was beveling that area last time

i left quad in one place.

[tacit eagle]

How much enfusion engine's maximum polygon limits?

[delicate condor]

You don't need to worry about maximum. Make optimized models and youre good.

[solemn goblet]

The trick is to import straight from zbrush

[daring condor]

With Tri count you always want as little as possible while maintaining the level of detail you want

[daring condor]

Don't forget to subd it ones or twice too

[solemn goblet]

For optimal geometry use blenders decimate modifier. I'm sure it'll pump out an amazing wireframe

[daring condor]

Actually

I use that to optimise my models

But I set it to planar at an angle of like

0.2-1°

[solemn goblet]

On a serious note, it's interesting to see so many folks need help with 3D. I think it means Enfusion is so friendly for that.

[daring condor]

It's like a limited dissolve but Mon destructive

[solemn goblet]

Planar decimation, in my experience, gives you geometry similar to shaving a stick with a knife. I'm mostly used to 2.9 atm though

Best optimaztion tool is bought its uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Retopoflo 3

[daring condor]

Yeah I ain't using that on hard surface

[daring condor]

Not that bad imo

I just make mostly angular stuff anyways

Since I do vics

I don't do full hp

Just a mid poly I subd

[solemn goblet]

subdivision and edge% workflow kinda deal?

[daring condor]

Dunno I'm not that advanced but I mostly use planar dissolve on pieces like this

Partially for viewport performance

I don't even need the track anyways lol

I only use it to bake it into an alpha

[solemn goblet]

This thing here

[daring condor]

Ah yeah

No

I use bevel

[solemn goblet]

This is 0

[daring condor]

Don't like crease

I control with bevels

[solemn goblet]

I should try using bevels. I mostly use creases

[delicate condor]

Well we don't yet know how tracked vehicles will be implemented

[daring condor]

I'm buying mesh mashine today

[daring condor]

I sure as fuck hope they stick to a3 style

Even war Thunder uses it

[solemn goblet]

Does enfusion use animated textures

[daring condor]

This is 120k

Literally a second tank per side of track

[delicate condor]

😝

[daring condor]

I assume they stick to animated track

For riggings sake

[delicate condor]

Perhaps yeah.

Mesh track can be made work just fine too though

[daring condor]

Tracks are in motion anyways

[solemn goblet]

There is a method that works well, used by claptrap studios I will find

[delicate condor]

But we will see what the solution is eventually

[daring condor]

Yes but it is a pain

I'm sticking to a3 for a while anyways

That way I don't have to do implementation

I just toss stuff at stagler xd

[solemn goblet]

Sorry clapfoot of siege camp studios haha

[daring condor]

But yeah my issue with mesh tracks is that it's still arma

You usually don't have one or two tracked vics

But more

[solemn goblet]

2D texture that just cycles.

[daring condor]

Yes

Me like

[daring condor]

These can be improved by multiple layers of cycling textures

[solemn goblet]

Yep. You could do it that way. You could optimize them to all be the same UV space just separate tracks.

[daring condor]

That's what I do

On my pt-76

If you want to see a really nice version of that

[solemn goblet]

This is how I'd do it, that way there's a side track motion thing going on. But on close inspection it does fall apart

[daring condor]

Check out csa38 for a3

[solemn goblet]

Inside you notice the puppet strings

[daring condor]

Imo, looks better than optimised mesh tracks

Check the t-62 wreck in reformer

The tracks look so bad

[solemn goblet]

He's getting a lot from the bakes here. But this method was always interesting to me and made it a point of attempting recreation. It's really smart actually.

[daring condor]

That's texture tracks, right?

[solemn goblet]

Yeah, it's just a plane that has been duplicated and inverted so there's a backface

[daring condor]

Ah yeah

I do more planes

This is what I friend made

[solemn goblet]

Yeah that works. I think I see what you're saying. This is how I intend to do it for now until I see a working rig that bohemia uses

[daring condor]

That's how bi has always done it

[solemn goblet]

Well, there's another way but it's using the mall stair method

[delicate condor]

Texture tracks can look very nice yes. Mesh tracks through bone chains can perhaps have more dynamic damage modeling.

Either way. Everyone wants tracked vehicles

[daring condor]

Here's kinda how I do it

[solemn goblet]

My worry about mesh tracks is that it might get to be a lot of kb for just animation

I would use individual bones per track, it could get kind of big haha.

[daring condor]

Hard to see, but I have some more planes inset into the mesh to fill out holes

[daring condor]

I'd think giving us an option to have a wreck model for the track would be neat

Also, kinda disappointed tires aren't their own Modules

[solemn goblet]

It'd be a shape key or in the action editor for wrecked tracks I would bet

[daring condor]

Anyways I gotta get back to painting

Wish it was texture painting

[solemn goblet]

dude that is an amazing render good work 😉

I maybe will experiment with mesh tracks in enfusion and report my findings here

If it works really well I will make a tutorial on the wiki for it. Maybe a video

[daring condor]

Tbh, I should 3d scan this and turn it into a trim sheet 😆

[dense plover]

LALA

[bitter quartz]

How can i change the reticle of the existing optic ARTII?

[tidal latch]

Change hdr texture

[bitter quartz]

Ahh awesome

And is there a possibility to have like a Text Widget in the Reticle?

[zenith quartz]

Today is the day I shall slave away more on this AK-12 wooooo

Is there any way to proxy in BI bullet models into our magazines?

[wheat bay]

I too would like to know this. I'm working on a g36 with a transparent mag and its weird without bullets lol.

[zenith quartz]

Yeah I don't wanna use my own bullets because this way is less work and I imagine better performance

Altho might have to to make polymer rounds :(

[solemn goblet]

I wonder if enfusion can reference bones with no groups or empties like source does, that's how I'd do the bullet thing

[bitter quartz]

anyone knows if this is possible?

[last hill]

Hoping someone can help, I am trying to make some LOD's for my imported pack that I've been working on, however running into issues with the vert counts being less than half on 3ds max compared to what the enfusion workbench is saying they are?

It's doing it for every model I have exported, I have no idea what I am doing wrong, heading to bed now but really hope someone knows what is going on, tried multiple export settings on 3ds and import on enfusion.

[delicate condor]

You need to triangulate it to see tri count

Quads are 2 tris

[solemn goblet]

Is it possible you're exporting with some sort of edge split modifier which adds extra vertices?

[delicate condor]

Oh tru vert count, not tri count

[solemn goblet]

Also possible there are ngons which, yeah would add extra verts but if you're using 3DS Max I would imagine you understand that already 😛

[opal moat]

How do I make hard edges and faces after applying the subdivide modifier in blender?

[sly bridge]

send me a dm tmrw will try and help you sort it out

[sly bridge]

vertices number is the same ngons or not

[solemn goblet]

Does enfusion not triangulate models automatically on import?

[sly bridge]

haven’t tested it, i always triangulate before export / bake

[solemn goblet]

In order to prove my point I made a cube with a shit load of random ngons and yep turns out I'm an idiot lmao no way to add vertices

[solemn goblet]

Kinda reminds me of the Vindicare Exitus rifle lol.

What do you folks use for models in-engine? World Editor?

[tacit eagle]

Anyone have an issue when they update a model in a prefab it doesn't update straight away?

[bleak depot]

the model in prefab updated automaticly. delete your .xob/fbx file and import again with the same name.

[zenith quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/922248828697067550/980183054574317568/unknown.png

Slowly getting somewhere.

[bleak depot]

First steps of door destruction
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/247357056732889088/980182636758724678/test12.gif 🙂

[daring condor]

oh yeah

@solemn goblet you have an artstation?

[solemn goblet]

Yep

[daring condor]

do share

[solemn goblet]

https://www.artstation.com/english_darian

[daring condor]

nice

i like that duck foot pistol

good textures

although the grip looks awkward

too square

[solemn goblet]

Yeah it's kind of a silly grip. That's just how it looks

This is the one IRL

[daring condor]

ah

[unique current]

this might be a common/dumb question but what is the unit conversion between blender units and enfusion units?

or i guess

how big is a unit in enfusion?

when i import models they are usually very large and i have to adjust scale manually, so i want to know enfusion unit size so i can adjust to that scale before import

[solemn goblet]

It looks about 1:1 to me. 1 blender unit is about 1 meter

[tidal latch]

take a look at sample helmet - this issue was fixed there in recent update. You need to add alpha material to opacity parameter and then check two parameters in material configuration

[solemn goblet]

Is there a version of this man somewhere I'm missing in the github? The current one has a long sleeve coat on (that I have). It'd be nicer to have this to make clothing and gear with. Thanks in advance.

^disregard, apparently the head and body are separate. I guess that makes sense but my monkey brain didn't want to piece it together.

[flint ivy]

Hi everyone. Looking into learning making gear and what not as I've heard these tools are a lot more easier to work with.

At the moment I'm just trying to get the character sample fbx into Blender so I can try masking and sculpting to practice (I know sculpting isn't the best but I'm just experimenting.) But whenever I try to extract my mask, this happens.

Just wondering if anyone knows; do I need to 'simplify' or merge the imported character model? As it comes separated into hit locations, different lods, etc.

[solemn goblet]

I'm figuring this out as well, hop into a VC and I'll talk to you, we can figure it out together

[plain citrus]

Is it possible to see the paint weights for the arma reforger assets ?

[solemn goblet]

Yep, I'm currently doing that now

Make sure you are in weight paint mode and you can see them visualized

[plain citrus]

How do you do this ?

Hum, but if i dont have the FBX file, i cant ?

[solemn goblet]

The mode switch is here, top left

I can send you a file that is on the github and available to everyone

The heads are not currently weighted for some reason...

So I'm using this helmet lol

[plain citrus]

I cant see weights paint of this one for exemple ?

[solemn goblet]

I have no idea how you'd get into that

Here's my reference weights now, it's a small file and just shows the weights

[plain citrus]

Oh very cool file !

Thx

[solemn goblet]

Cheers, hope it helps

And if someone knows why the head reference weights aren't there I'd be keen to see a version where they are or how to fix it.

[plain citrus]

Yea helping a lot for transfert weight !

[plain citrus]

Loving your file its perfect for transfert weight !

[solemn goblet]

Nice man, good work

[vocal belfry]

Looks good!

[opal moat]

Where did you find that sample model btw?

[solemn goblet]

https://github.com/BohemiaInteractive/Arma-Reforger-Samples

[opal moat]

Much appreciated.

[hidden yarrow]

.

[solemn goblet]

?

[hidden yarrow]

so i can find it later

[solemn goblet]

Oh haha

[last hill]

Thanks for the help, heading to work right now, if the missus is OK with me going on the PC this evening I will give triangulation another crack and see if that does anything. It may have not worked properly, another thing to check.

Thanks for the responses folks, trying to optimise everything I am working on, my creation or not

[calm rune]

This is an extremely weird body shape lmao

[woven swallow]

Question. Does Enfusion supports double sided texture on planes ?

[solemn goblet]

Since I fell through the floor and saw sky, I'm guessing no.

[merry python]

https://gyazo.com/8897958cde22fba9bdd1e1e6c352a3da

any ideas what happening there? prefab is already set up

I can't equip the headgear

[solemn goblet]

Is it at his feet or anything?

[daring blade]

Alright I've named the object UTX_stairs (Will change them to convex) but they're not showing up as a collider I'm so confused.

Ahh I needed to switch the name to UTM

Dunno why I wrote UTX

Okay it's not importing all colliders in the scene, so I'm just gonna go ahead and export them one by one.

[merry python]

not really, it don't equip actually

[solemn goblet]

Just shooting ideas I guess. If it isn't world space issue I have no idea

[merry python]

I'm redoing the whole process to see if I missed something

[desert mist]

This I've found is a bug in the game drop it on the ground and pick it up using context menu.

Or once it in the slot just drag it to your characters head.

[merry python]

that worked, thanks!

[desert mist]

No problem!

[solemn goblet]

The collective mind of this discord channel astounds me daily

[dawn scaffold]

how do you generate the .et in prefabs ?

[tacit eagle]

It's possible to import arma 3 Cup core assets to enfusion?

[knotty cedar]

If it's only importing one collider make sure your untick Merge Trimeshes in import settings

[urban valve]

any good tutorial on how to import arma 3 uniforms into the reforger?

[rain wadi]

Ask CUP

[daring blade]

Okay ill check that out! As per now I'm trying to figure out why the editor is freezing as I import the mesh. Anyone have any idea?

[opal moat]

Followed one of those tutorials

[opal moat]

Where did you extract those zip files to use them in blender?

[fathom bolt]

What is the number of faces ?

[last hill]

Fingers crossed pufu can assist, still can't figure out how Enfusion is saying there are double the number of verts present in the model itself. Wonder if it is related to the UV mapping coords, do I need to remap my UV's for each lod's vert positions?

I am new to most of this stuff. Will keep working on it and see what happens

[bleak depot]

anyone knows how can i change the GenericEntity to SCR_DestructibleBuildingEntity?
My Model:
https://prnt.sc/Nxpdfqamkp2r

Vanilla Model:
https://prnt.sc/J8LW7j7YmOaZ

[wanton vigil]

It should be possible to turn on also triangle count info in 3dsMax...if I remember it correctly.

[knotty cedar]

Issues with models showing double vertices in game engine compared to 3d software is often related to hard edges/split vertex normals/smoothing groups etc (terms depend on what 3d software you use). When you use hard edge in 3D software it won't count it as two vertices but GPU handles hard edges by duplicating those vertices, so engine does count them double. So if you want to avoid the confusion just only look at Faces in Enfusion and try to make each subsequent LOD <50% faces of the last one. Indeed in 3dsmax it may be called Triangles (Enfusion refers to triangles as Faces cause it triangulates on import.)

[sly bridge]

yes that is indeed possible

[sly bridge]

ahh, so enfusion does triangulate on import no matter of the the original mesh topology (all quads for instance). good to know.

[knotty cedar]

Indeed so the fbx source file will retain quad topology 🥳

[sly bridge]

that i am aware, but the .xob will not, is that what you are saying?

[unreal reef]

Just out of curiosity what is the exact round I am looking at here?

[last hill]

I had to head up to the hospital to my wife and son but I will see if I can do that suggestion and check face count (I know how to enable face count) once home if not too late this evening

[sacred sierra]

hello, would anyone find documentation on the geometry of buildings please?

[pastel bluff]

well we did some tests and can't get synched bake of averaged cube, seems enfusion is generating tangent space differently

would be cool if we could find out what's used so maybe it can be changed to mikkt or make tools to convert normals to be more in sync

[sly bridge]

@last hill

not sure why the vertices number is completely different, have been checking both vertices indices etc

tri count is correct

[delicate condor]

No.

[sly bridge]

i also tried some other meshes, same result

[plain citrus]

Does anyone have a tutorial on how to properly adjust the t-shirt?

[delicate condor]

It's just standard modeling work. If you make models they should be made straight up on the reference model so their shape is correct.

[round orbit]

Proportional editing tool

[plain citrus]

like this ?

[thorny galleon]

Press O on your blender to enable proportional editing tools, then pick a vertices that you wanna adjust / refit to the character model, then mouse wheel to adjust the influence of the editing and lastly do whatever u want to the mesh (move/scale/rotate) to fit it accordingly

[round orbit]

∆

[dim gate]

use lattice modifier on blender

[thorny galleon]

Or you can do this also forgot thanks for answering it

[plain citrus]

Thx MiKL

i gonna try lattice modifier

[thorny galleon]

That's perfect and yeah try lattice modifier and see if it's suits the character

[last hill]

@sly bridge thanks for having a look. I will work off of the face count instead of vert, per Sasha's advice. Many thanks all.

[sly bridge]

would be nice to actually know what the count is for though

also, as @pastel bluff said, knowing what type of tangent space is used would be lovely

[plain citrus]

Do you know how to force refresh Workbench after changing Worn model, because i need to restart for see my change in game mode ...

[thorny galleon]

Shift + R

[daring condor]

Not always possible and people sometimes make meshes for general use, not just arma

Then there's people like the Sus and Sus crew who are porting their a3 assets

[bright raft]

New project

[hoary herald]

having an issue, the brim of my hat is visible in first person. anybody any idea whats causing that?

[thorny galleon]

Try using Arma Reforger Opacity Map called HeadClipping_A.edds on your data assets emats and enable Allow User Alpha Bias and Disable User Alpha in Shadow under general tab and see if that works

[hoary herald]

hmmm i did include the headclipping map, works fine on my other 2 hats, just for some reason this one is acting up

aha it was the 2 check boxes you mentioned

@thorny galleon thanks bud, that solved it

[thorny galleon]

Happy to help

[hoary herald]

such a simple step to forget...

[thorny galleon]

Do be like that 😄

[daring condor]

nice rpg

[eager hill]

It's different because enfusion shows us the number of UV vertices

Even though a cube is built from 8 verts, it has to be saved in memory using 14 different points

When I imported this exact cube into the editor it showed me this

[bright raft]

Thats a nice find

Good to know

[eager hill]

It has a smooth shading as you can see. If it was shaded flat as it is by default in Blender, the number of verts would be higher - 24 iirc. The reason for that is that those faces would be separated just like edge split modifier does it

[eager hill]

that's what you learn by messing around with DirectX

[bright raft]

As for your model of Eotech, did you figure out a way of making holographic sights without PIP?

[eager hill]

not yet. I don't think it's possible as of now. I checked every component related to optics and none of them said anything about collimated reticle

And I still have to finish the model

[calm rune]

Anyone started making civilian clothing yet? Think im gonna make a couple outfits.

[solemn goblet]

Ah smart. I would have never thought about this. Is this similar in any other engines? I know Unreal and Source do not do this and maybe even Godot.

[eager hill]

To display the model, it has to keep in memory place of every UV vert. At least it needs to be like that in DirectX, I've never touched openGL or Vulkan. But I suppose every API works the same way in this case

Also I'm not sure how Unreal and other game engines work, because my gamedev knowledge is very limited. Perhaps they show number of mesh verts, but under the hood they have to keep them as separate UV verts

[solemn goblet]

I can't look at things through a lens like that so it's interesting to understand your thought process here. Thanks for sharing.

[eager hill]

It's caused by the fact that every 3d model is in fact made of triangles. In software like Blender we try work on quad meshes and it leads to some issues like this. One vert is removed, so Blender tries to connect those 3 faces into one, which because it is not planar is not possible

If we look at it from the side, it turns out to be made of triangles

[tacit eagle]

N-gons truly are my bane, its why I don't model as i cant be fucked to work in quads (which you can use the triangulate option to turn to tri's)

[solemn goblet]

You can also press alt+j to turn tris to quads :^)

(This isn't always ideal though)

[daring condor]

ngons are only an issue if they are not planar

ngons are based

you can use them to control edge loops etc

[tacit eagle]

Yes, and I only work in non-planor n-gons

[daring condor]

only time you really have to worry about them is when you are doing character art/ other stuff that deforms

personally my preferred workflow is to just put 3d scanned models into games without cleanup

[swift goblet]

I did, but I had to stop because I'm traveling

Once I'm back home I will continue

I already did some backpacks and vests

[swift goblet]

I actually think that is cool that you see that, becouse you see it in real life

[daring condor]

you really dont

put on a hat and run around for half an hour

your brain starts blocking it out

same way as you dont see your nose

[swift goblet]

When you play it happens too

[hoary herald]

your brain will tune it out, just like your nose but it is very visible when you first put on the hat

[swift goblet]

If the screen is not small

[swift goblet]

Exactly

[daring condor]

can you set a seperate lod for the first person view btw?

[swift goblet]

You can set lod0 to be super close

[daring condor]

ive been thinking about a maska helmet

and how you could use that method to render the visor in first person

next step, disable aiming down side while wearing it

[pine flame]

Rendering very close to camera is bad idea. Near clip plane is not close enough and if you try to make it cost you will show more z buffer fighting.

[daring condor]

there goes my idea

wanted to do one where the helmet isnt set to translucent and you just have some alpha on the visor to mimic your eyes trying to focus beyond it

[tacit eagle]

My preferred workflow is to just not model anymore

[pine flame]

Well you can play with it, but no guarantees
When we had a bug with visible helmet, it actually looked decent. But something which is straight in front of eyes may work or may not

[daring condor]

gotta finish my current projects first 😆

im still on arma 3 and will be for the forseeable future

but i am making something i do plan to bring to refrigerator

[swift goblet]

Then it's not a bug, it's a feature ✨

🤣🤣

[pine flame]

I have same opinion 😃

[daring condor]

like when i leave some bad shading on a model in areas where its supposed to be stamped metal?

[solemn goblet]

The way you fix this is rendering on a seperate layer which most engines support. However, Enfusion was made for ArmA I believe, and uses 3rd person models for 1st person so it might be one of the few that do not do this easily (lmao)

[daring condor]

i love that tbh

i dont like games that have seperate 3pp anims

or 1pp anims

all anims should be the same

[solemn goblet]

This is how most first person viewmodels are rendered for the player.

[swift goblet]

Looks more natural

[daring condor]

fully aware, i just do not like it

[solemn goblet]

Yeah sorry just an addendum not saying you don't know it xP

[daring blade]

What interaction layers are generally used for buildings?

[opal moat]

It’s the 20mm used in the vulcan

[knotty cedar]

Building/Fire/View

[daring blade]

https://i.imgur.com/kUU6yGm.png I don't think I'm looking in the right place... I can't find building in it?

[knotty cedar]

Sorry, Building contains Static & Navmesh layers

[daring blade]

Ahh thanks 😄

Also when I hit filter colliders the editor just crashes

[swift goblet]

Debris isn't used?

[knotty cedar]

Debris is used on small debris pieces which should not collide with dynamic assets

[swift goblet]

Oh ok

Ty

I haven't started making buildings, once I start I need to check that deeply hehe

[knotty cedar]

It's most of what I did for reforger production 😆

[daring blade]

I'm not sure why it's crashing, I split my mesh into separate pieces so I can see exactly what's going on. I closed all the holes, I got rid of ngons, it just won't let me view the colliders lmao

[swift goblet]

Idk If there's some sort of animation, or if it's like arma 3 that the building goes under terrain and debris is spawned

[daring blade]

one is only 11,000 tris

err polys. Do I need triangulate mesh or something?

[fast notch]

how many tris should the object be? 59k hangs and is not imported

[spiral condor]

someone make Walter white

[daring blade]

Anybody have sort of like a checklist that I can have up as I work?

I just don't understand, I'm still walking through the mesh

I'll start from the basic like a cube and I'll make sure I can get a cube to work

still walking through the cube so obviously I'm doing something wrong

[fast notch]

how to find the component "rigid body" at the root of the object like in the screenshot?

[swift goblet]

Wtf is that? Roots?

[fast notch]

reference for one of the pieces on the game "Stalker"

[swift goblet]

Oh lol

[daring blade]

That's pretty sick lmao

Okay let's start over. I have this cube. I'm trying to get colliders to work, what makes them work?!

[gloomy stump]

If you look at the BIKI in the fbx document it explains how to create model colliders

you have to name it with a certain prefix

I dont remember what it is though

[daring blade]

UTM I have that

then it goes on for multiple paragraphs on why tris are bad

I need a step by step

[fast notch]

do you need a character to be unable to walk through the cube?

[daring blade]

Yeah

[fast notch]

okay. I found such a solution. in the blender, you should have LOD (the visible part is registered exactly like mine) and UTM (the physical part copying the object itself), after which you put the object on the map and add the "rigid body" component to it, ticking "static" and "model geometry"

okay. I found such a solution. in the blender, you should have LOD (the visible part is registered exactly like mine) and UTM (the physical part copying the object itself), after which you put the object on the map and add the "rigid body" component to it, ticking "static" and "model geometry"

[daring blade]

Hmm mine are all grayed out

OMG!!!

At the bottom! Thank YOU!! @fast notch !

https://i.imgur.com/URSlcFj.png

NOWHERE does it say that in the BIS tut

[plain citrus]

Do you know why when i import tga texture on Workbench i got this error ?

And it doesnt convert to EDDS

[fast notch]

you're welcome, I've been suffering for 4 days with this myself 😄

[daring blade]

that shit needs to be pinned 100% lol

Heck, even in unity each model comes with all the components you need. In fact I think they load with a rigidbody

[fast notch]

I tried, but it didn't work out. Maybe I'm crooked. there is also this config, but I don't understand how to configure it

[quasi thistle]

complete guide anywhere for importing models and making them game ready?

[mortal sentinel]

is it possible to get the original m16 model into blender?

[plain citrus]

🪖

[solid tulip]

uuuu very nice

[mortal sentinel]

why does evertything in workshop close if I just close one window wtf

[fast notch]

okay. I have an animation of how these spheres move, how to move them into the game?

[daring blade]

If you figure it out I would like to know this too, it's definitely something to learn.

[fast notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svUtlHC2ph4

😄

[daring blade]

Again the documentation barely has any info, and it's for 3ds max. https://i.imgur.com/sm0FKiU.png

https://tenor.com/view/theoffice-jim-soclose-close-little-gif-10412596

We need a mega checklist where we can ctrl+f anything we want to learn

Do not say google, because when I google enfusion or reforger all I get is hits on how brand new the game is xD

[wraith forge]

is it on the workshop yet ?

[solemn goblet]

Ayy you got it to work man good job. You will have to teach me the enfusion process 👀

[daring blade]

@fast notch https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Enfusion_Blender_Tools:_Import/Export_Animation not sure if this is useful but I found this

It just stops in the middle of the process, it doesn't go on to explaining how to make it work with the engine. It's just setup

[fast notch]

as I understand it, this is a setup for a character

[daring blade]

Ah okay so I'm guessing you're using helpers to move the spheres?

I did see something about that, did you try this setting? https://i.imgur.com/sQDDUNp.png

[fast notch]

I don't quite understand what you mean

[daring blade]

If it's nested in another object, like a controller

[fast notch]

I think it's worth looking at how it's done on unity and already relying on something like that

[daring blade]

Actually more like this lol https://i.imgur.com/RczoZUH.png whoops

https://i.imgur.com/J2DyweH.png Like a skeleton but you made it yourself. Idk if blender has that

You can add all sorts of custom constraints and IK's and set it up exactly how you want it. I would imagine blender has it but I have no idea how I would do it

[solemn goblet]

I was taught that those helpers are called a control rig. And the handles are just called controllers haha.

[delicate condor]

Blender Armature works like that I believe

[daring blade]

exactly 😄

GREAT for robots and other mechanical stuff

[solemn goblet]

I might be biased in saying they are great for everything and FK can go FK itself

(I don't like animation)

[daring blade]

Animations can break very quickly lmao, have lots of backups ready lol

[solemn goblet]

God have mercy on the abomination you might create with improper weights as well

There's a tool that lets you 'transfer' the weights of the base mesh onto your thing, it's called like MGs tools or something

I'll find it

nvm that's an old tool, you can just do it natively now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPQ2QVVIxLU Here's a vid on it

[daring blade]

3 minutes?! Omg yes ty lmao

[plain citrus]

Coming soon, maybe this week

[opal moat]

Made cartridges for my gun

Planning on doing two versions, this one which is polymer cased and the second which will have a disintegrating case.

Has anyone tried to make a custom compass yet?

[trail igloo]

Anyone having an issue importing an FBX file and the reforger tool stops responding?

[solemn goblet]

Are you using Blender 3.1 or above? I haven't had any issues yet on import.

[trail igloo]

I am

Everytime I try and import a pretty simple model the reforger tool completely freezes and I have to kill the process

[lament solar]

That happens when you import something that the tools don't recognize

make sure to enable "export selected" when exporting as fbx

[trail igloo]

Okay thanks

[daring blade]

Okay I have zero ngons, zero holes, the mesh is 15k poly, and yet it still crashes when I try to preview the colliders.

It worked before with all the errors then suddenly didn't want to work anymore

[flint ivy]

Is anyone able to give me a hand on getting the sample character into Blender? I was hoping to start creating clothing and gear this week as I'm off work and was planning to learn.

I import it as an .fbx with the Enfusion plugin import function and it shows up with all the hit locations, LODs, etc. Do I need to 'simplify' or convert it into a more basic joined model or just leave it all separate?

Wanted to try modelling clothes but also try to use the sculpt tools as well. But when I tried the latter, I just kept running into issues where it would only sculpt on one hit location and not allow me to try it on others. Not to mention not being able to extract masked areas.

[daring blade]

So, selecting the mesh as well would help.... I was just selecting the colliders when I exported. 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

[solemn goblet]

There is a version of weighted character mesh I made for simplicity here #enfusion_model message

Note that there is no head because.. The reference head has no vertex groups when I import it. I think this is a mistake from bohemia though 😄

Actually, the blender rig probably has vertex groups and I could use that instead... Hmm

[fast notch]

how can I make the door open in my building?

[vocal belfry]

Can you do one with a gunpowder casing that has a HUGE fireball out the muzzle?

[flint ivy]

It works! Thanks man!

[flint ivy]

Give me a shout if you do the head. Perhaps the existing head on its own will work okay?

[opal moat]

?

[vocal belfry]

As a joke.

[opal moat]

I’ll see what I can do

[opal moat]

Beeg Boolet

[sonic path]

Im still a bit new to blender(only about a year in) but I would inevitably like to make some content for arma. Heres a higher detailed churchill I made, and a low poly jltv

[opal moat]

Nice

Those look good

[opal moat]

Now we're cookin with gas

From left to right: 15x120mm, 9.1x66mm, 6.68x49mm

The purple denotes that they are AP-Ball

Plan on making variants of all of these with correct color coding by projectile type

Any idea on how to get rid of the weird clipping when you get far away?

[vocal belfry]

I love all of this

[last hill]

Do you have LODs for the rounds or just a single mesh?

[hoary herald]

to help with some of the night fighting. working on throwable chem lights

[hoary herald]

still a ways to go but

[hoary herald]

just having issues with dynamically turning it on when thrown. its either always on or always off...

model turned out great though. modelled the interior of the chemlight to give a realistic look

[sacred sierra]

hello I have a problem on my door when the geometry is not on the door I have the action to open but if I put the geometry I no longer have the action would you know where it could come from please?

[opal moat]

Single mesh at the moment. Don’t know how to make lods

[solemn goblet]

I'm not even joking, you can get passable LOD's with Blenders decimate modifier. It even retains weights.

[opal moat]

Interesting. So lods are just low poly versions of the original?

[delicate condor]

basically

[solemn goblet]

Yep. Every game has a poly budget, some more than others. LOD gives the game some 'budget easing'. Lets say every triangle is 1$. If you have a budget of 1,000,000$ and each helmet is 10,000$, you have a limit of 100 helmets. LOD1 might be 5,000$, LOD2 is 2,500$... You get the idea. It lets the game run better for basically no impact on visual fidelity. LOD's aren't required but for your mod to be used in big servers of 100 people or more, they are very welcome.

[calm rune]

When setting up LODs is it just a matter of having a lower poly model named LOD1, LOD2, etc or do you need to also attach the bones, weights, etc with each LOD as you would with LOD0?

[solemn goblet]

Yep, the weights need to be the same

[sly bridge]

everything

[solemn goblet]

I think LOD's can reference the same armatures so no need for extra bones

[delicate condor]

it must reference same armature/skeleton

[solemn goblet]

Yep. Vertex Groups 100% need to be the same I know that at least

[sly bridge]

he means bones ^^ for everyone else not using blender

[solemn goblet]

I don't really do a lot of rigging so correct me if I'm wrong

[lethal frigate]

i have locked camera in editor anyone know why?

cant move it on wasd

[calm rune]

Yeah I figured the same armature would be needed not extra. Thanks all, question was answered.

[solemn goblet]

One method that works is dissolving edges of a duplicate if you want some precision

That way you retain weights, modifier stack, all that.

[opal moat]

What kind of objects need bones? I’m going to start off by importing simple objects into the game first, bandages, flashlights, grenades etc.

[solemn goblet]

Pretty much everything is using bones in one way or another

Even static props technically have a bone called "root" in most engines (idk if Enfusion does this).

[calm rune]

Ah, I think I understand. I use blender so I was just going to duplicate the original and decimate multiple duplicates for each LOD.

[opal moat]

Interesting. I thought bones were only needed for animation.

[solemn goblet]

Yep, that's literally how I do it.

[solemn goblet]

I can't really speak for Enfusion but some engines create a 'bone' at the root or origin of an object. You won't create a bone yourself as it happens automatically on import.

[calm rune]

For good practice is there a workflow we should follow for LODs such as LOD1 should be 50% of LOD0 and LOD2 should be 50% of LOD1?

[solemn goblet]

My theory is that bones impart rotational and positional information that geometry can't do alone but I'm not really into the technical aspects of it

I'd 100% check the helmet in the github to see what the math is

[calm rune]

Gotcha!

[solemn goblet]

https://github.com/BohemiaInteractive/Arma-Reforger-Samples/tree/main/SampleMod_NewCharacter/Assets/Characters/SampleCharacter Right here

[opal moat]

How do I import these to blender?

[solemn goblet]

Blender has a native import FBX utility under file (top left) > import > FBX

[delicate condor]

helmet as wearable item follows the character skeleton

other items have their own skeletons

[last parcel]

Hi, need some help when importing my model into the game i seem to be getting a slight error with one small part of the model. its abit funky, so far i tried resettning normals, resmothing it. still not working :S any suggestions

[delicate condor]

make sure you dont have any hidden mesh in the model that gets exported like that

it basically has to be in the source

[last parcel]

don't have any hidden, verts, faces or meshes, the only hidden stuff i have is a model of the magazine but seeing as I export only the thing I select that shouldn't be a issue. I think atleast

[solemn goblet]

I have seen artifacts like this with stacked vertices. Try a quick merge by distance pass and see if it still shows up

[delicate condor]

do you triangulate the mesh before you export?

[last parcel]

yep

[solemn goblet]

Is it rigged to a skeleton or something? It kinda looks like misplaced weights on individual edges or something.

[sly bridge]

can you show a wireframe?

are these really long triangles? or really tiny?

[eager hill]

If you're using blender try select > by trait > non manifold. Maybe there is something but it's not noticeable easily

[solemn goblet]

This is a great suggestion as well

[last parcel]

don't use blender, i use 3dsmax i used the remove isolated verts, still nothing :S

could i be that is so small that is making it all disorted

[sly bridge]

is that line created via spline with a sweep modifier?

or is it a spline with thickness / render / viewport visibility?

[last parcel]

the last one

then turned into a polygon

[solemn goblet]

I'd guess maybe some of your ngon curves are making incredibly shallow triangles of less than 1 degree and that could cause some weird display issues at certain angles? This is mostly just a guess I only see visual distortions like this when something is overlapping somewhere.

[sly bridge]

do the following- select an edge loop of that mesh - > convert to spline -> add a sweep modifier and set the dimensions and offset similar - drop an edit poly on top - triangulate and try once more

[last parcel]

will do

yep that fixed it, Thanks

[pure forum]

What program are you using to bake the normal maps for vehicles and weapons?(or PBR materials)

[last parcel]

i use substance painter.

[delicate condor]

Blender works too

[plucky rover]

use blender to bake normals, use substance to paint normals

[delicate condor]

for painting SubstancePainter is probably better off the top of the shelf. Blenders paint tools need some setting up to have more range

[eager hill]

tbh I think baking is substance would be a better choice. I don't know how results would differ, but it's much faster in SP

Baking normal map for the rifle I added earlier took around 40 minutes in Blender, while in Substance Painter baking all maps took less than a minute

[pure forum]

I use blender, but distorts normals 😕

[eager hill]

Almost finished, just need to make 3 more pieces of the model

[sly bridge]

no worries....

[pure forum]

yes it is faster.
In blender my CPU heats up to 97 degrees (4096x4096)🔥

[plucky rover]

the only reason i prefer blender for baking normals is because in substance, my only attempt at baking normals from a higher poly mesh resulted in weird faces at spots where they didn't perfectly overlap

[solemn goblet]

That sounds like an issue fixed with match by mesh name

[plucky rover]

for me it was an issue i fixed by baking my meshes in the same software that i made them in 👍

that's all

[sly bridge]

GPU raytracing engines are a lot faster at baking - substance, marmoset, some plugins offline renders