csla_iron_curtain

[upper galleon]

CSLA, where the tanks are helicopters and helicopters are tanks. I wanted to like this CDLC, but the quality is not worth the price tag. Yes i bought it, gave it a look and got muh money back.

Base game weapon sounds
Lack of content
Joke scenarios (really!? Steal the car? Even basic editor noobs can make those.)

map was ok would have preferd glob mobs interior set peices instead of having the entire map have furniture.

[inner jackal]

Lack of content? Not arguing about the sounds, or the issue with tank turret rotation or helo damage - that are already being fixed. But the map alone is worth it (I am a big fan of furniture on a map - I know I am in a minority though) and the Czech stuff is mostly pretty good

[smoky prawn]

I’ll try to add some more weapons to the JSRS compat soon. I already have premade templates for Scorpion, M9 etc. But haven’t had much time last days 😦

[inner jackal]

Livonia DLC for DayZ $14... CSLA Gabreta map $13 ($10 right now). I know which map I'd rather use

Honestly one of the best ARMA 3 maps out there

[visual lotus]

Definitely, the map alone is worth the - relatively low price tag. Everyone in here surely spent 10 bucks on more crap in his life

[inner jackal]

I spend $13 a day on cigarettes... may have mentioned that before 😉

[visual lotus]

so did I. And booze, a hell lot of it 😊

but yeah, for today's youth 10 bucks must be the end of the world
atleast until the weekend starts

[inner jackal]

I assumed kids would get more pocket money nowadays 🤷

[visual lotus]

As for 'Steal the car, everyone can do it' I doubt you even tried to port that mission. Because it's more complex than one may think
The original from 2001 at least is. Because it has more possible endings than the average 10 minutes editor mission session

[upper galleon]

also, a showcase is not a scenario! Damn it.

Yes the map is probably the best part of it but i have to question if all that furniture is hurting the optimization. Yes its nice to have fleshed out interiors, but at this point buildings being just empty shells is a feature of the arma series, its even explained in the lore!

[inner jackal]

Personally I live pay check to pay check, put money on my pay-as-you-go credit card last week for CSLA... Am I happy with the cDLC? In some ways very much yes in others no... but I know that things will be fixed, though the money the team will make cause of all the trolling will be much less now. But I am happy with the money I spent. No regrets!

I haven't had fps issues on the map tbh. I know others have though

[visual lotus]

Empty building - depends. I prefer to have them empty too because it allows you to change the furniture to your needs.
From a players side, yes then the empty halls might look boring

[inner jackal]

Not really... two newspapers in the garbage piles saying "Where's my furniture?" But I am in a minority... I need murshun cigarettes and murshun furniture too 😉

[lavish axle]

honestly curious about that also

[fading snow]

A great way for this would be if the buildings were placable unfurnished in the Editor so you could hide the building you want to refurnish but still some effort that could be avoided I guess

[inner jackal]

I don't know that furniture was dropped from ARMA for performance though

[visual lotus]

Definitely, editor placable buildings would have been nice. That's one of the things I'm missing here

[upper galleon]

ehh the ai struggles a bit with custom placed assets even in the right place

[fading snow]

Well I don't have a definite answer but I'm 99% sure they have to

[lavish axle]

true, most of the bad reviews you see are talking about campaign which is justified a little but forgets the great quality of the assets which are the main part of GM

[inner jackal]

You seen my mod?

[upper galleon]

you would have AI phasing through walls

[visual lotus]

The AI struggles a lot. 🙂

[upper galleon]

took my AI dude 5 min to figure out how stairs worked

then he got stuck at the top

[fading snow]

Hmm depends but that's just a Arma specific issue. If I use AI in building then mostly enemy's that I garrison via a module and they will be fine most of the times

Have you tried running AI mods like lambs and set them to cqb mode? Would be interested to see how they work in CSLA furnished buildings

[upper galleon]

also the fact they couldnt even be bothered to give the rebles there own faction name ticks me off!

realy FIA (CSLA) is just lazy

[inner jackal]

Blame BI for reusing FIA in Altis tbh

[visual lotus]

This will ruin your day now.
There's also FIA (CWR III)
and probably even more of them 😆

FIA is the evil within, if the Reds can't be

[inner jackal]

And they were all consistant in Cold War Europe... Then BI decided to lazily reuse them as a 2035 faction on a Greek island

CSLA were just keeping tradition going... not being lazy on that one... on sounds for sure 😉

[upper galleon]

also for the love of god put a grease stick smear on the ffar blackhawk so those of us who dont use cross hairs know where to bloody aim

[visual lotus]

Jarhead has to make JSRS CSLA compatible. Then all is good

The sounds are indeed poor. When I first heard the M16 I was like what the eff was that

[upper galleon]

how many years did it take for us to get a drawn on aim sight for the little bird

[inner jackal]

Yeah

That would be yeah for both of your comments 🙂

[trim zinc]

I hate it XD

[visual lotus]

Me too

[upper galleon]

yes the fact it looks like it was drawn on with a sharpie makes the drawn reticule look bad

[visual lotus]

But yeah, if you have crosshairs disabled, it's hard to aim without any hint

[inner jackal]

Yeah, I turn off crosshairs personally... and it is pretty tough. Doable but...

[trim zinc]

Yea, but the market is so chunky that you cant really precision with it

Marker

But i def see why people requested it

[upper galleon]

its not meant for fine aiming the grease stick sight its just supposed to let you know the general area the bullets will go, a simple slight grease smudge on the cock pit glass thats all its supposed to be

[inner jackal]

Yep. I mean does anyone still play third person, crosshairs enabled servers? Jeez 😉

Wimps!

[upper galleon]

oh gods the bots are back

also i think people like the map a lot because its a nostalgia hit back to cherno

[inner jackal]

I don't think so. Not for me anyway, just really well designed and thought out (and furniture 😉 ). But I hope that the devs can turn things around going forward, not all is lost, and maybe attract you back to the cDLC in the future

[visual lotus]

I'm positive they will. It's their 'homeland army' after all. If you remember how bad GM was in the beginning. It was almost the same situation back then
and nowadays it's one of the DLCs I'd buy anytime again

[inner jackal]

True. And the two of them compliment each other perfectly

[raven glen]

After bugfixes, IMO the most important thing will be getting the guns not acting weird, like the super fast firing dshks and the like

There's a soundmod, so audio could be secondary

[upper galleon]

oh and NO planes!? you know the thing the cold war was known for!!

[inner jackal]

Cold War, yes... First hour, lots of planes... after that... Hello? Hello? Hello? Yeah, no air support 😉

[raven glen]

IMO Pook and Firewill fill the gap. I just have to make sure I pick the block 25 F-16C cause its like '83-'85

[inner jackal]

But yeah, Pook and Firewill for sure

[visual lotus]

I'd rather have Hinds than planes. The map (or almost any map) is too small for actual plane combat

[inner jackal]

And the air environment in a total war situation in Central Europe would be brutal

[visual lotus]

But if, then hopefully some other plane type than the omnipresent Su-25

[upper galleon]

tho that said it was nice to see the US actualy using camo paterns on their vehicals, one of my peve's with base game is every faction gets a camo for there vics but nato

[inner jackal]

Helos would have to actually operate NOE rather than the way most ARMA players fly them if we really want to recreate WW3

[trim zinc]

My personal thoughts.

But if I was to figure out were to start improving I think I would focus on the US vehicles. Scrap the HMMV start from scratch

Sounds, and config values are something that goes by quick, but replacing a model is a loot of work

[inner jackal]

US is definitely the weak link

And honestly, should have been jeep focused

HMMWVs were only predominant in the very late 80s

[raven glen]

I'm glad that the humvee shock absorbers are hexagons instead of the triangles from CUP. Not everything is that bad right?

[visual lotus]

HMMWV was easier, model is already present. The M151 would have been made from scratch.
Not that the CSLA guys couldn't do it. But it was probably not worth the time

[trim zinc]

Like from a model standpoint. Uniforms can always be subdivided and re-sculpted for better looks. Weapons can just get more extrusions, but vehicles need pretty close to a rehaul.

Problem with just using the A2 sources is they are the low poly models, not the HP. So you miss a ton of detail A3 could handle that is baked in the A2 variants.

[raven glen]

in that case its good that the czech vehicles are actually pretty good and unique

[inner jackal]

Would have made their mod mesh more with GM... But I have a US Jeep elsewhere so I am fine 😉

[trim zinc]

Yea, it's clear there was some talent with the modeling because the scratch build ones really don't look that bad.

[inner jackal]

Some of the Czech stuff is very good

[trim zinc]

I mean you can't compare to GM because GM is just...the highest standard, but they are definitly on par of early A3 models.

Like if anything, if they really want to stick with the A2 exteriors, then re-model the interiors.

The control panels on the blackhawk could be modeled out pretty easy.

[inner jackal]

Many/most of the issues that they can fix quickly they probably will do so in a hotfix. Everything else is just gonna take time. And that is unfortunate. But I will be running a CSLA/GM and a couple of other mods server because that map and some of the assets are worth it. Just my opinion

[trim zinc]

I been having a CDLC vs Aliens missions.

VC, GM and CLSA vs Contact

[inner jackal]

But for CSLA, I would also recommend the Cold War: ČSLA mod in addition to the ČSLA: Iron Curtain cDLC... At the end of the day, most WP nations (other than the USSR) then did not have that many T-72s... It was mostly T-55s that the mod provides skinned for the Czechoslovaks

[trim zinc]

I also noticed CSLA is pretty much set for a Blackhawk down movie remake

Got every asset, say for desert fatigues.

[upper galleon]

nahh need a jet so we can do behind enemy lines

also yes because i should need to download a mod to complet my DLC experiance

[inner jackal]

They did have an F-5 (completely unrealistic for Cold War Central Front), MiG-29 and L-29 assets... They apparently need to make them better and work within the Jets DLC framework and replace the F-5 with something else

Don't understand why people want an F-5 in Central Europe... utterly unrealistic unless the USAF's three Aggressor squadrons (2 in the US and 1 in the UK) were sent into the meat grinder

[upper galleon]

well it is alt history

[inner jackal]

Yeah... but the devs suggested an F-16 instead... I would be happy for a more realistic situation 😉

And Firewills and Pook 🙂

[upper galleon]

mmmh i can dig the f16

[inner jackal]

I don't mind other mods for fast jets... Those mods do it better than anyone really

[upper galleon]

its only two less than my all time fav jet.

[raven glen]

Just kinda annoying that the earliest from fw is f16c block 25. give me an a model (sorry for ot)

[inner jackal]

I think we are still OT... at least right now.. talking scenarios on Gabreta

[trim zinc]

Honestly fully implementing all the mechanics of Jet DLC is a pretty heavy order. Even CUP doesn't quiet scratch the entire surface on it.

[inner jackal]

Dedmen's probably drunk anyway ... ... hides

[trim zinc]

Also why all F16 stuff? Why not glorious F-14 Tomcat?

[upper galleon]

notice DROs alread got a babrela misson up now

F14 was naval

[inner jackal]

Bit far away from the coast for F-14s

Given the air environment in WW3

F-15, F-4, F-16, F-111, A-10 for the US

[raven glen]

F-15 all the way baby

Also the highway... perfect place for brrt

[inner jackal]

OT, but still hoping GM does a BAOR update with the Chieftain... Would make sense for their AO

Then my Cold War hype is truly at 11

I'd take a Challenger I

[upper galleon]

mmmhh A-10 gimme dat sexy beast, not that low poly future version

[frigid gorge]

Best addition would be a plane that isn't in any other place

Firewill has 14,15,16, there is a mod with an f5

F-111, F-100, etc - now those would be nice

[raven glen]

the Mi-17 goes up to 250 at low level... wow

Also what's the F-5 mod?

[frigid gorge]

Iran military mod

Only mod I know of with an F-5

[raven glen]

I'm assuming it doesn't have any usaf agressor skins?

[frigid gorge]

No, just an Iranian skin

[raven glen]

then I will lie in wait C'mon csla studios i want an f-5 and you have it

[south sonnet]

Honestly I'd be happy to see a Britain flavored cDLC, maybe with IRA as opfor?

[frigid gorge]

Britain as Opfor*)

[frigid gorge]

Adds up btw, an Mi-17s topnspeed is almost 300km/h

[raven glen]

I was low level so I couldn't trade much alt

[raven glen]

anyone else having trouble getting columns to get on this part of the highway?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zE5SYSibDjk4YRn4R2eqV2i1QlQf8IdJ/view?usp=sharing
I had to start these vehicles way up there because otherwise they'd crash into the median no matter how much I tried to use waypoints to direct them

[visual leaf]

That poor man only drinks coffee and bad code and then 💩 fixed code later! Give him a break 😉

[trim zinc]

Could be they mapped another roadway in and it's confusing the AI. I personally never seen multilane highways work in Arma (IE AI able to use multiple same way paths). I could be wrong though.

[marsh sparrow]

@trim zinc if im right its hardcoded with the 4 mem points LB PB etc

If its hardcoded into the engine, i dont know how to add more.

I did my large streets for TG just wider and it works well, even with the bridges together. Adding more points will confuse the AI in drive and walk

[upper galleon]

For anyone interested i Wrote an after action report for my first DRo mission on new map (its in the screen shots channel)

[upper galleon]

Yeah, why can we always only play the so-called, allegedly "good" guys? hashtag: Command & Conquer NOD ( rhetorical question )

[misty bramble]

GLA 😇

[frigid gorge]

GLA > All ☝️

[upper galleon]

What is GLA?

[frigid gorge]

Faction from CnC Generals

[upper galleon]

DO felines even have sweatglands?

[delicate zenith]

is the compat patch for this supposed to show ads when you pick up a gunwear a uniform/drive a vehicle that is added?

[upper galleon]

What kind of ads? Heckler & Koch, MAN?

[delicate zenith]

dlcs ads

buy this

[frigid gorge]

More or less, believe so

[delicate zenith]

okay, i have a person reporting that isnt the case

[upper galleon]

play IFA mod the germans are blufor

[misty bramble]

I think someone said they don't

[frigid gorge]

(I believe so, I might be wrong)

[delicate zenith]

what I'm asking is if its expected behaviour

[upper galleon]

@upper galleon Well, my scope was non-modded games. Of course, with mods, everything is possible, in various degrees of quality.

@delicate zenith I think the steam summersale is right around the corner, 22nd or so

didnt base arma 3 let you usee DLC stuff at one point but would throw splash screens at you

[delicate zenith]

okay cool that doesnt answer me whatsoever

[upper galleon]

No, but it may help :o)

[delicate zenith]

thats what I thought

sorry for being blunt

[upper galleon]

Blunt is good sometimes :o)

[delicate zenith]

the only information I want to know is whether or not you are supposed to get a splash screen/popup/whatever if you use the compat patch and do not own the dlc. i am trying to figure out a community modpack and whether or not we can drop duplicate mods with no burden

[upper galleon]

probably or i would see bohemia squashing comp patches pretty quick

hm, A: are compat patches even able to remove those ads? B: If they would be, are they allowed to?

otherwise your getting the dlc with out paying for it

[delicate zenith]

I am being told that right now you can use weapons/uniforms/anything but vehicles and the map through the compat patch

I havent tested it myself due to time constraints, but I want to know if this is expected

[upper galleon]

its ok the vics are pretty bad. prety sure the motor bike is just a reskined quad

id say yes expect the ads

[scenic cove]

#csla_iron_curtain message

[upper galleon]

In my view, it is basically like this: Which is more annoying/feasible: buying the addon on sale or "suffer" the adds? I am on a budget and only ever buy on sale, so usually i have to wait a looong time before i can get stuff, at which time it is old ( and therefore bugfree-er, nice sideeffect ) but... it often results in being "out of the loop".

[scenic cove]

A pretty heavy order? The only one I can think of that might pose difficulty is setting up the Extended Damage Modeling (relative to pre-Jets DLC) for jets and placing the proxies for the pylon-mounted weapons... everything else (dynamic loadouts, sensors, display panels) is config stuff 🤷 and someone in CSLA Studio did implement dynamic loadouts for the Mi-17 so the knowledge/proficiency is there

[trim zinc]

Yea the Extended Damage Modeling

It takes A LOT of testing, and tweaking to get right, let alone set up.

[scenic cove]

There was a Brazilian Armed Forces mod back in the day which had the F-5E but it got taken down from the Workshop

[scenic cove]

If you mean the Compatibility Data... then yes, it works just like Bohemia Interactive DLC contents

And this is the case for all three released CDLCs so far, except that CSLA Iron Curtain (both the Compatibility Data and the paid DLC) is far smaller in download size than either GM or SOG

[delicate zenith]

That's waht I expect, but again: I have people telling me that isnt how its working

they are able to connect to a server, use assets without the DLC, and not get any advertisements for it

[frigid gorge]

I know, I've backed it up)
But was referring to publicly available ones

The F-5 in the Iranian mod is really cool tbh

[scenic cove]

Same, albeit I imagine yours is (like mine) lacking dynamic loadouts?

[frigid gorge]

And it's easy to re texture

[scenic cove]

Is it 'an actual F-5' or one of the post-Iranian Revolution derivatives?

[frigid gorge]

Don't remember honestly, my community has compat for it that I made, so might've added dynamic loadouts

[frigid gorge]

Don't know the difference

[scenic cove]

How did they get the underwing proxies sorted out if the model cannot be debinarized/opened and they were limited to whatever the creator had? 🤔

[frigid gorge]

I just checked, it has Pylon support from the get go

[scenic cove]

Any idea if the server included custom user actions for getting into the vehicles/picking up the weapons? The DLC restrictions only block the default actions, which a dev acknowledged as intentional

[scenic cove]

Could be that you had a more recent version than I do!

[delicate zenith]

This probably happened by the gear being assigned to the unit at mission start via our loadout script.

[scenic cove]

In ways, the CDLC suffers from having US '85 at all, had it just been CSLA vs. FIA, we'd be looking at so much fewer assets but proportionately more of the remaining ones would be better-looking

[scenic cove]

In that case the DLC restriction would be the inability to change crew seats/get back in, and the inability to retrieve the weapon if dropped... plus the notification pop-ups

[frigid gorge]

It's on the workshop, again - Iran army mod

Smth along those lines

[scenic cove]

Oh, I was mistakenly referring to that Brazilian Armed Forces mod's F-5 having pre-Jets-style fixed loadouts whereas you meant that the Iranian forces pack's F-5 has dynamic loadouts

[south sonnet]

Probably to make the red army redfor :^)

[delicate zenith]

thanks

[finite monolith]

haven't bought this, but heard the Dragon ATGM is not realistic so.... 😦

[twilit iris]

Are you sure you mean the dragon, I don’t remember a dragon is in the dlc

[thick parcel]

There's a Dragon

What's wrong with it? @finite monolith

[finite monolith]

its just a TOW renamed and shoulder launched

not the complete garbage bag that is the M47 Dragon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDTIhvh-rYE

or incoming... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLvWpquHxU

[thick parcel]

So you're saying it's too good and should be crappier?😄

Or I don't get it

[inner urchin]

did you guys just get a newsletter saying csla had just come out?

like gee, real early to the party bis

its almost been like 72 hours right?

[midnight briar]

https://twitter.com/Arma3official/status/1405835444269555714 well this sounds ominous, wonder what this means

[upper galleon]

#cancelCSLA

[leaden kite]

cancel culture is highly toxic.

[lavish axle]

wonder what the bohemian meant by that 🤔

[leaden kite]

Probably taking off the store or offering refunds and giving a road map on improvements.

[manic steppe]

Yeah I'd vote for it to go back in development and taken off store till it passes bohemias standards

It would be good if they put as much effort into it as PF team

PF were passionate about their project this just feels meh.. here ya go

[leaden kite]

The thing people conveniently forget when it comes to "cancel X,Y,Z" or "just go back into development" is that these things all cost money.
It is pretty obvious to me that they ran into budgeting issues, even SOG went over budget if I recall correctly.

Developers don't live on passion alone

they have families, debts to pay and food to put on the table, much like everyone else

[manic steppe]

I get that 100% but bohemia shouldn't of let it on store yet without trying it themselves

[leaden kite]

So unless BI decides to put in more money into the project (which they likely will, considering that at this point the damage is done), we're kinda at an impasse

[manic steppe]

But on the other hand..
Rhs and cup do it because they are passionate and in their free time

And it's free lol

[leaden kite]

Like PuFu said, if RHS were to release again nowadays, it most certainly wouldn't be free

it'd be cDLC

so the whole "it's free" argument just rings hollow

[manic steppe]

I would pay for RHS 100% they have done so much and such high quality

[leaden kite]

And it's not as if I don't agree that CSLA is in an unacceptable state atm or that they shouldn't face consequences and take responsibility for this, but saying "Cancel CSLA" or saying "Take it off the store" without any proper plan can physically put lives at risk

[lavish axle]

I would go for that as well, but I dont think thats the route that is gonna be taken

[leaden kite]

the reason Sony can do that to CDPR is because CDPR is a huge company. They can eat the loss, even if it's devestating. They won't go out of business. But CSLA Studios isn't a AAA studio, so unless BI throws them a lifeline or they made enough money off of the DLC to fund further development, it's kinda fucked.

[lavish axle]

cdpr is having lots of layoffs I think

[leaden kite]

Yeah, even they struggled a lot with the refunds and the deplatforming on Sony

[manic steppe]

I understand that 100% :)

[lavish axle]

but lives at risk is a little far off

it seems that this dlc is not their main job and they have other sources of income

[leaden kite]

hence me saying that cancel culture is highly toxic.

I anticipate them offering refunds and forcing a sitdown (which probably is happening/or has happened) with CSLA studio. If I were their PR department, offering a fixed roadmap with concrete dates would be the play to appease the public.

[lavish axle]

a roadmap would be interesting

[leaden kite]

That is the case for BI. Not for CSLA. I highly assume that working on the CDLC was their fulltime job (maybe one of the CDLC partners could elaborate on this, I obviously don't know)

[lavish axle]

because bi forces devs not to talk about the future of cdlcs

[leaden kite]

@copper monolith sorry for the 🏓 but a bit of background would be highly appreciated

[manic steppe]

I would say this also

[leaden kite]

NDAs are common everywhere. It doesn't mean it can't be their job

[upper galleon]

They said it was their side thing and they work regular day jobs. So they dont really have financial investment or commitment here besides the time. clearly they didn't even spend $20 on a basic sound pack

[jolly lantern]

Mondkalb has a full time job next to the DLC.
I'd say most DLC devs probably do

[lavish axle]

sure, what I'm saying is that might just change nda policy

[leaden kite]

In that case I retract what I said

[copper monolith]

aaa, who pingeth' me. 😄

Yes, we did GM after work hours from our regular day job.

[leaden kite]

either way, my general point still stands, though. When it comes to money, it shouldn't be taken lightly

[lavish axle]

yeah but that goes both ways

[ivory pewter]

Not being allowed to talk about the future of a cDlc is normal imo, making promises for their stuff while BI is still somewhere represented is understandable that they don’t want to deal with unmeet promises

[twilit iris]

a commercial license for sounds is not 20 dollars

if you're getting those kinda prices you're being scammed for stolen sounds

[manic steppe]

LordJarhead is who Sog hired

Jsrs studios

Hes actually really good value wise

[lavish axle]

yep

[ivory pewter]

The team, budget size between sog and csla or gm isn’t comparable

[twilit iris]

hiring a new dev for audio is also really expensive, not to mention the jsrs guy in specific wouldve been busy on SOG at the time of this development

[leaden kite]

Absolutely, but refer to what I said here: #csla_iron_curtain message
I definitely think there should be repercussions and that BI should force more QA standards (even if the devs say they're ready). All I'm saying is that we think about it rationally and don't bandwagon blindly

[manic steppe]

But the sounds, sound (lol) like they are from OFP

[ivory pewter]

That’s another issue

[manic steppe]

True

[lavish axle]

I think the best environment is where devs can say what they are working on showcase get feedback, honest environment in general, but yeah dunno if this would work with cdlcs

[midnight briar]

the sounds honestly almost feel unfinished

like their M2 HMG on some vehicles uses the default fallback MG sounds from vanilla arma that isn't even supposed to be used, no vanilla vehicles even use it

[lavish axle]

definitely

[twilit iris]

I don't think they're unfinished

[ivory pewter]

You’re talking money and they what they actually sounds like

K’m just being fair and saying that SOG can’t be compared fairly to this cdlc :p

[twilit iris]

I believe the idea was that if it was good enough for arma vanilla, it should work for a dlc

[leaden kite]

I think they simply ran into budgeting issues and were like "welp. Either we release this and update it along the way or we call it quits"

[twilit iris]

working with what they have

[midnight briar]

but it's not even good enough for arma vanilla

[lavish axle]

indeed sound design is the best thing in sog imo

[midnight briar]

it's worse than arma vanilla, hence why that sound isn't used anywhere in vanilla

[leaden kite]

which isn't an excuse, I should add

[midnight briar]

it seems like a placeholder sound that is only used by some base classes

[manic steppe]

I bet if RHS, CUP, and all the other main known contributors teamed up to form 1 epic CDLC team they could probably make something godlike

I'm going OT ignore me

[midnight briar]

SOG was sorta that

[lavish axle]

not remotely likely, and for one thing small teams have better vision

closest is sog

[midnight briar]

a lot of the most prominent arma modders came together for SOG

[ivory pewter]

I wouldn’t bet on it^^’ team coordination between two pre existing like that can be difficult

[twilit iris]

Especially when both of those mods go on much different paths

and are already dedicated to their own work

[ivory pewter]

Sog had a « organising structure »

If you put two tem like rhs and cup with no back bone.. eee complicated result

[manic steppe]

Yeah sog Is different due to it being a solid veitnam game even Vietnam vets did interviews and collaborated with them and they knew marketing skills and knew how to build hype they did it wonderfully I was so excited on that release day

[twilit iris]

Unfortunately you cant get vets for a war that never happened

[lavish axle]

lol

[manic steppe]

Lol hahaha didn't think of that

[lavish axle]

but I mean you can interview people who where in the army at that time

and for me it has the same value or even more than sog veterans

[manic steppe]

Or just to get general information for accuracy and representation

[twilit iris]

It wouldn't be as epic, but yea that couldve worked

[lavish axle]

as sog veterans at least we have books that they wrote

[manic steppe]

I think the big issue with csla was that they were very "in the dark"

[twilit iris]

also dont know how much people would listen to old czech soldiers talking about a scary moment or a funny story

very niche compared to vietnam special forces vet stories

[lavish axle]

would have been really cool

[manic steppe]

We could have probably reported all of these core issues with CSLA sending us a gameplay video like sog did

[lavish axle]

I tend to appreciate it even more because its more relatable to me

[somber shuttle]

Well, CSLA studio had plenty of time(more than 20 years) to to their research for stuff and more than 7 years to do something for A3.

[lavish axle]

its all about honesty and communication in the end

[manic steppe]

I'm keen to know what bohemias statement will be

[leaden kite]

oftentimes people say something is "cool" or would be that, but in the end, money talks the loudest.
Out of 250000 people at the time, the project I supported supervised barely made money to stay afloat. Not even enough to pay the staff.
The vast majority always says "Oh, this is so cool, pls don't stop", but when you look at the bank account, reality is different

[twilit iris]

20 years is an exaggeration, arma 2 the game they made the original mod for wasnt even out 20 years ago

[manic steppe]

Hopefully they didn't just copy over their old arma 2 stuff lol

[somber shuttle]

It is not, their first mods are for ofp

[midnight briar]

well, they did for some of it

that is obvious

[manic steppe]

Yea

How is it taken this long then if most of it was copy paste (genuine question)

[lavish axle]

passion keeps the thing afloat, but yeah it can only go so far till you cant pay the basic bills

[sour ginkgo]

Don't know if that is possible with steam, but right now it probably could be changed into an EA title. That would then also reflect the current status.

[somber shuttle]

Also I do not believe they’ve done proper QA, because all those bugs are easily found in few minutes just playing around in arsenal and trying stuff in editor. 1 hour of proper QA would do magic in their case

[lavish axle]

dude dont meme this, situation isnt similar to ea even though you can argue its a scam or something like that

[leaden kite]

firstly, it's not most. Secondly, it was a small team. Thirdly, money is a factor. Fourth, it's not as if they are native developers. It takes time to get used to developing on a platform you have to learn from scratch (development pipelines, structures, so on)

[sour ginkgo]

Why not?

[upper galleon]

Someone waved it through, maybe they are good friends with BI and were approved without any checks.

[lavish axle]

take a look at how the cdlc project goes then take a look at how a ea tittle is design

[leaden kite]

because EA is a AAA company with almost 10bil dollars of annual revenue. CSLA studio is a group of (5? I don't remember the number) people on a budget.

[lavish axle]

basically this

[upper galleon]

they meant early access, no?

[somber shuttle]

Marek Spanel was part of CSLA 😏

[sour ginkgo]

Guys, seriously. We're talking here ea as in "early access" not "electronic arts"

[leaden kite]

oh

yeah, it does feel early access if anything

[lavish axle]

lol sry dude

[hasty bison]

CSLA Mod was founded in late 2001 by Leon and Maa. Abbreviation CSLA come from Československá Lidová Armáda (Czechoslovak People's Army). Original authors (Leon was Czech, Maa was Slovak) wanted to make something touching both nations, and since original OFP took place in 1985, they chose the army of former Czechoslovakia.
Their first addon, was released in 8.I.2002, only six months after release of OFP
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Czechoslovak_Peoples_Army

We have been doing things in our free time for the community for 20 years from first OFP demo ...

[sour ginkgo]

But it could be - actually Im almost sure - that steam doesn't allow something to turn early access, that already got published. Also it probably wouldn't allow for reverting reviews, that are now out

But if I were responsible, that's what I would try first

[lavish axle]

on that part is more to do with bohemia as its the publisher

[leaden kite]

Well the reviews that have been posted so far are simply what they are. It's deserved criticism for the most part. And idk how the ea status works on steam
But it would feel a bit like a cop-out move to go into ea and act like it's fine.

Like I said, if I was their PR manager /CM, I'd try to give a road map with concrete dates on what will be released when, what's on the table, goals, commitments and ofc also an apology

[fading snow]

I think if you release a product which you and the customers think is a ready to go 1.0 version no early access whatsoever and after a "bad release" come forward and try to sell people it actually is early access that there will be an actual hurt to BI's reputation.

[sour ginkgo]

Yeah, the situation has to be solved together with the publisher anyways. It can't be done by the 3rd party itself - they don't have complete liberty of choice

[sour ginkgo]

Yes and no - at least those who buy it then, would know that it needs to be worked on

[leaden kite]

that's why the steam reviews exist. As well as the news feature

[fading snow]

In depth explanation on the current situation and how they will be trying to solve it would be a good start 😄

[ivory pewter]

There for arma 3 latest tweet

[shell merlin]

they are working on that it would seem from their latest tweet

[sour ginkgo]

I wouldn't think that. It would need some explanation sure, but I think it would also be a visible commitment.

[shell merlin]

but i do think it would be better to start doing damage control instead of pretending everything is fine

[fading snow]

Yeah it's just my opinion on what I would feel like in that case. I respect yours as well 😄

[manic steppe]

What if we could just keep the map as CDLC lol

[midnight briar]

honestly yeah if the CDLC was just the map and was priced accordingly I would be completely okay with it

[manic steppe]

Yea it looks a good map although I'd prefer not EVERY house have furniture so gives people room to make their own stuff

Or have it as module to populate buildings with furniture

Plus optimisation

[midnight briar]

I don't think the furniture does much for performance since it's baked into the model

[leaden kite]

I like it furnished. If you had 2 different versions, you'd have servers running one or another, it'd be rather confusing. But I don't feeling strongly about this, I'm fine with either

ye

[midnight briar]

arma has trouble with lots of objects, I don't think the objects themselves being a bit more complex is a problem

but then also if they're baked into the model, you're just stuck with them

[leaden kite]

as long as you disable the simulation on them, they tend to be okay. But with furniture that's a problem if the house is destroyed

[lavish axle]

meh I tend to think its better to leave it without furniture

[midnight briar]

it's definitely better to have it empty in the map

[leaden kite]

I hate that every fucking house I go into is empty.

[midnight briar]

if you want furniture there are plenty of solutions to adding them

[leaden kite]

I hate it with a burning passion

[midnight briar]

like that furniture script

that makes every building furnished with very little performance impact

[leaden kite]

yeah, the furniture script helps a lot

[lavish axle]

for one the base game set standard, and second you arent supposed to be entering every building in a mission

[leaden kite]

I mean the only reason we're even discussing this is because arma is an old game which even back then had bad optimization

[midnight briar]

also it doesn't help that some of the furniture in the building models is not really placed correctly even

with stuff sticking through walls

[manic steppe]

I saw that also tables etc

[graceful wedge]

++

NGL i really like the CSLA buildings

[midnight briar]

I would agree that the buildings are the best part of the DLC

but again they would be better without the furniture

[thick parcel]

I noticed the AI using the buildings quite a lot

Which is nice to see

In some of them you can bash out the windows and jump through onto the roof

[visual leaf]

Finally an official response: http://twitter.com/Arma3official/status/1405835444269555714

[scenic cove]

Huh, apparently the M16 Car.'s flashlight is supposed to look almost-flush with the bottom of the handguard

Ondra_BI just announced on the CSLA Discord that there is a hotfix approved and on the way shortly

[west schooner]

thats kind of how they were back in the day.... all Delta do that 😉 https://soldiersystems.net/2013/11/19/bcm-gunfighter-history-vol-1-the-scud-hunter-carbine/

[scenic cove]

Also, Mondkalb just reported on the CSLA Discord that We haven't encountered any issues with GM and CSLA so far. It looks like they work well together in functionality and weapon balancing. so hopefully people here aren't having issues with the GM+CSLA combo after this hotfix!

[turbid summit]

https://twitter.com/Arma3official/status/1405910436365713415

Arma 3 (@Arma3official)

Creator SPOTREP!
FROM: CSLA Studio
TO: Arma 3 Creator DLC Users
UNIT: CSLA Iron Curtain
ACTIVITY: CDLC Hotfix #1
SIZE: ~1.4 GB
https://t.co/w7XU69B3ao

Twitter · Jun 18, 2021, 3:29 PM

[west schooner]

hopefully after the hotfix they will start to deliver a bit more meat to the DLC without added cost, making the thing work is great, but there is so much more they could have added in terms of vehicles, variations in equipment, and terrain objects.

[hasty bison]

More info come soon...

[west schooner]

^i like the sound of that 😄

[somber shuttle]

™️

[brittle thicket]

There should be rules stopping creators porting/reusing existing content.

All content should be made BY the dlc creators studio

[scenic cove]

If you mean more assets 'instead' of 'not CUP ports'...

[scenic cove]

Currently that would have disqualified SOGPF too 🤷

[somber shuttle]

They haven’t used CUP…
They haven’t used CUP for CSLA…
(edit for people browsing through to avoid confusions - message appears out of proper context)

[west schooner]

one thing that i know that bugs me about some of the equipment, the vests, if you try to put them onother uniforms such as vanilla or DHI uniforms they clip, so they are kind of useless if you want to use other mods with them.

not "useless" but changing uniforms is difficult

[fickle narwhal]

Horrible idea. No point in them making a third UAZ when they could use that time to add something like a MiG-29 or something that isn't in the game officially yet

[scenic cove]

On the one hand yes, on the other hand it's absolutely inexplicable that someone decided to rename -- not even reskin -- the vanilla Assault Boat just to call it a Zodiac instead, without apparent-at-first-glance gameplay differences

[fickle narwhal]

Why does it matter? You then get it with a US soldier by default. Why does it need a reskin?

[west schooner]

^ all mods, and DLC's use things from other mods, and DLC's, and base game.... just digging through the SOG DLC you can find plent of things from the base game or, other DLC's that look the same, are called the same thing, just have a SOG logo next to them in the editor. thats just how things are done, theres nothing wrong with it. can you imagine how ugly things would get if we didnt use other objects and models from the base game or mods as a standard to making new things?

[scenic cove]

Could have done the equivalent of a config mod (override) of the vanilla Assault Boat config instead 🤷

but admittedly I speak for myself in that I wouldn't have minded that (changing the vanilla Assault Boat so that the Editor-placed-default crew is US '85 instead of NATO) whereas mission makers might have minded it

[fickle narwhal]

Isn't it pretty much a configuration override? The name is determined by the config

[scenic cove]

No, it's a separate class from the Assault Boat that seems to only differ in displayName, and according to you default crew

[fickle narwhal]

Yeah pretty sure that's still all done on the config side

[upper galleon]

remember A2 ACR dlc? Same devs (CSLA team) with BI help. It released completely broken with obvious bugs that could be found out easy after a quick try like the steering wheels in cars not turning the correct way.

This cdlc mirrors that a2 thing perfectly (and not just because of the copy pasted content), so dont expect too much here. They'll do the "hotfix" to fix the issues and then bail on this the same way they bailed on acr. especially with reforger so close (trademark is already registered by BI, so it is real)

[somber shuttle]

No

[simple quiver]

they did not rip or steal anything from cup

[scenic cove]

to which I say 'if CSLA Studio members didn't want to clutter the Editor, hence hiding most of the buildings via scope = 1; they could/should have just overriden the vanilla Assault Boat so that it always spawns with a US '85 crewman instead of a NATO crewman instead of doing it via a separate config class

[fickle narwhal]

But then doesn't that change the assault boat in the NATO faction section? Or is there an assault boat and zodiac in the CSLA section?

[fading snow]

This cup thing honestly is burned into everyones mind... I doubt people will change their claims :/ at least not all of 'em

Even if people who work with/for CUP state that they didn't rip anything people still keep claiming they did...

[fickle narwhal]

Can't stop idiots I guess

[fading snow]

It amuses me but also makes me sad at the same time

[hasty bison]

It can only be solved correctly as it is now ... via CFG.

[frigid gorge]

People who says "X is from CUP" use it unanimously with "It's from A2", because that is "what everybody says", even through CUP has massive amounts of upgraded and new assets, and only a few are still ports from A2

It seems to be a general case of people speaking without looking, again(

[scenic cove]

In which case renaming it from Zodiac to Assault Boat would at least present it as 'yeah this is just the vanilla Assault Boat with US '85 crew, just like how AAF/CSAT/NATO each have their own'... which is less weird than 'why is the name different if it looks just like the vanilla one'

[fading snow]

Yeah but that's just straight up wrong and builds a connection to CUP for people who don't know what CUP did to their assets... so yeah but I think it's also just the sheer bluntness and ignorance some people have that gets me

[fickle narwhal]

Personally I hate it being called assault boat. Mostly because if you tell me there is an assault boat over there I don't know if it's a zodiac or the armed one because I don't use them frequently. If you tell me there is a zodiac over there though I know what you mean

[frigid gorge]

Yeah - I am not saying it's right. I am saying that people don't do their research, or think when making such cases. It's the same with CSLA

[fading snow]

I know you're not saying that all good 😄

[inner jackal]

Problem is that Zodiac is a company name that makes that sort of boat...

[somber shuttle]

What do you mean? Do you say that CSLA did use CUP?

[inner jackal]

No I'm guessing he thought you were saying SOG:PF didn't use CUP but CSLA did... I read it that way at first tbh

[misty bramble]

let's call it RHIB and be done with it! 😄

[fading snow]

Your message followed right after the one which stated that SOGPF used CUP so I think dwarden believes that you answered to that.

[inner jackal]

It's not really a RHIB though

[fickle narwhal]

I'm all for inflatable boat then. Just not assault boat

[misty bramble]

but zodiac is a RIB

[fading snow]

or Dinghy

[scenic cove]

The armed Speedboat is a visibly different hull shape from the 'rubber' boat, and what Apex calls the RHIB is also visibly different from both of them

[frigid gorge]

just call it "Plastic boat"

[hasty bison]

CSLA does not use any assets from CUP or other authors from the community. ONLY assets created by members of CSLA Studio or approved assets by BIS are used !

[turbid summit]

i was reading that you wrote it is using it. ..

[somber shuttle]

Oh I see, no worries 😅.

[turbid summit]

@scenic cove not sure about the Comp data ...

[somber shuttle]

@inner jackal @fading snow Oh, when I'm looking at it now, it also seems like it, but I have sent that message maybe few milliseconds after the previous messages so it got a bit out of context. Also I've made a mistake of not replying to intended message, but rather posting it as plain message.

[fading snow]

No worries we figured it out in the end ^^

[hasty bison]

Compatibility data are updated now.

[sturdy ice]

Bohemia should do with this DLC what playstation store did with cyberpunk...

[somber shuttle]

Back to the CSLA DLC 😄
I really like how they've handled that dam. That is DAMn good job!

[hasty bison]

Please test if you will download the update compatibility data that OK if someone is using it.
I have some troublems with internet 😕

[west schooner]

speaking of water stuff.. anybody else notice we have a couple different elevations of water ont he map, we got a couple lakes that are up higher than the river, really cool!

ooff referenaced wrong message sorry

[fickle narwhal]

Yeah it's done using water models. GM did that too.

[sour ginkgo]

If you mean, wether the download works, mine is getting updated through steam

[hasty bison]

Thank you for reporting.

[light talon]

Doesn’t it use the same free assets that cup uses?

The same free assets that bi released?

[scenic cove]

As do many if not the majority of mods, RHS included

[light talon]

Yea but those are free

[scenic cove]

So does SOGPF, albeit with buildings... visibly reworked, but apparently also visible enough to notice

[hasty bison]

Not completely, because we were the original authors of some models in released free assets.

[light talon]

For good or bad I believe the community has voiced their opinion

[inner jackal]

Again... and again... and again... and again... and again... and again... 😭

[unborn adder]

this DLC probably should've been tested

[light talon]

Are you surprised when you can get better or as good as content from rhs and cup for free?

[somber shuttle]

Yeah, but CUP and RHS is developed for years and "combat" proven by the community.

[scenic cove]

It was, hence the DLC being pushed back from last year into this year

[unborn adder]

Well, perhaps it wasn't tested particularly thoroughly...

[somber shuttle]

That is definitely the case

[light talon]

I remember when video games were expected to be complete what released

[scenic cove]

Testers can only find and log issues

[unborn adder]

so the issues were known and just no one bothered to fix them?

[somber shuttle]

Yes, I agree, but this is not a "video-game", rather than paid extension - tho with some standard to be uphold.

[unborn adder]

or am i misunderstanding you

[scenic cove]

Depends on who you believe about what CSLA Studio was told by the testers EDIT: as Yethe elaborates on below

[somber shuttle]

I've heard rummors from multiple people that it is the case for few things. Reported back in 2020, still present till today. But take rummors with grain of salt.

[scenic cove]

remembers that the base game launched without a SP campaign just like this CDLC did

[unborn adder]

i mean i would imagine hyperspeed tank turret rotations would be picked up on by somebody

[scenic cove]

If there's NDAs all around, then we can only guess who knew what

[somber shuttle]

Simply add few hours/days of BI QA time before the "final launch announcement" and that's kinda it. Most prominent issues would be picked up and CSLA for example wouldn't suffer from that much "hate".

[somber shuttle]

I would say that even 8 hours would suffice.

[turbid summit]

the compdata shall be updated too @scenic cove

[light talon]

Yea but no one *really * expects the single player. The content is lacking or identical in quality to free content.

[scenic cove]

Thanks, I believe that I read that this has already occurred

[scenic cove]

People were definitely holding the lack of a campaign against this CDLC, and even against SOGPF too (for theirs being MP-only with no provision for SP)

[turbid summit]

servers are updated too

[sour ginkgo]

And rightly so!

[light talon]

“Steal the car “ mission… all I need to say

[scenic cove]

My reply was in the context of 'video games were expected to be complete when released'... by that standard Arma 3 wasn't 'complete' until 2018's Tanks DLC 💀

[sour ginkgo]

That's no reason to do it again

[light talon]

And i believe it came out as a beta

[scenic cove]

Allegedly... people were quite unhappy when it was revealed that the so-called 'beta' was only running for a few months

[light talon]

Which is a whole other nasty conversation

[scenic cove]

As the game went into public alpha early March 2013, then the purported beta in late May or early June, and then it was announced that the game would launch/'leave early access' in mid-September

while the SP campaign wasn't 'complete' until early 2014

[light talon]

Again they got lots of flak for it

[scenic cove]

Yup, I remember that

Albeit from what I remember that was a case of the Arma 3 project leadership and CEO deciding that it was better to take the flak than to miss the release date

[visual leaf]

If Cyberpunk thought us anything it is that taking the flak can be worst than just delaying the release date.

[misty bramble]

but it was delayed already

[somber shuttle]

I'd wait tbh.

[scenic cove]

Right now I'm waiting for what post-launch support for this CDLC looks like beyond this one hotfix

[visual leaf]

Internal milestones shouldn't be delayed. The "release candidate" is tested and if it doesn't pass the test then it is delayed but "corrective actions" are taken internally to find the cause and deal it with according to responsibility.

[keen sparrow]

A second closed beta test would have been a good idea and then they should have decided to either delay it again or do something else.

[somber shuttle]

But on the other hand, right now, they can get so much needed feedback and work on that.

[scenic cove]

Today's hotfix did resolve some of the reported issues with the LAV-25

[visual leaf]

If SOG proved anything is that there isn't a lack of testers willing to professionally participate in beta testing and give constructive feedback among the Arma community.

[visual leaf]

Notably the bike with the Quad bike model box wasn't fixed yet

[hasty bison]

I don't know exactly what is meant by the "Quad bike model box", but the ARMA3 engine does not support PhysX for bikes/motorcycles, so all bikes and motorcycles are cars ingame.

[scenic cove]

I imagine that that's referring to the model size in the geometry LOD and thus the bounding box

[hasty bison]

In the background, 4 wheels are used in physX, even though only 2 are visible in the reso-LOD. This causes the bike to have a wider Bbox.

You can also try it on other released motorcycles.

[simple quiver]

pretty sure GM uses the old a2 simulation

[somber shuttle]

Also SOG PF had more than 100+ people, among them very prominent modders and so on. CSLA has 8 members?

[simple quiver]

🤔 @copper monolith doesnt it?

[copper monolith]

Traces back to Car_F.

simulation = "carx";

[simple quiver]

what about the bicycle?

[light talon]

Making excuses. Don’t release things for money unless done or get use to the back lash

[scenic cove]

It's a case of 'huge difference in what's possible due to budget and group size'

[light talon]

My honest opinion I think it was a terrible idea to release two Cold War cdlcs that are so closely related

[somber shuttle]

What? That is no excuse, rather than stating the differences. But I partially agree.

[scenic cove]

Not so closely related, different militaries depicted

[bold iron]

Europe is a pretty big place, after all.

And Czechoslovakia had a great deal of equipment that was pretty independent of other Warsaw Pact countries - despite nominally being derivatives or inspired by in some cases. The vz.58 comes to mind.

[somber shuttle]

June could be used for CSLA as bug-hunting month and then release it for example in July if it is fixed 😄

[bold iron]

I do sort of understand the point he's trying to make, however - the Cold War certainly was more than just Europe.

[scenic cove]

This is very much the standout aspect of CSLA IC assets as-released

[bold iron]

But that's what the wider CDLC program is for - so fingers crossed. 🤞 Until then, CSLA is a solid representation of another part of the war.

[light talon]

You make a semi point. While different most equipment looks almost identical. Kinda like EA putting a new color on a m4 and calling it the NEW m4a1 razor elite.

[scenic cove]

Nah, I believe that Isinfier and I are both thinking of stuff like what the CDLC calls the PLDvK-53/59 "Lizard"... instead of the recurring 'Ural Zu-23', we get a modified V3S chassis with a visibly different cabin and a twin-barrel 30 mm on the back instead of 23 mm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M53/59_Praga

[light talon]

But we also circle back to the fact you can get that content in the same or better version from free mods

[keen sparrow]

I don't think you can get that content (like the new Czech stuff) from mods.

[thick parcel]

What's the problem with this?

[somber shuttle]

Give me the mod that adds these unique assets.

[light talon]

So SOG can be compared to unsung but it’s a better quality and much better optimization

[scenic cove]

No, no we cannot... because it seems like CSLA Studio were the only ones to depict the CSLA at all in A3 other than the one mod for GM 🤷

[jolly lantern]

Afaik its nvidia physx not supporting it. And as Arma uses physx for all its physics soo.... no two wheelers.

took a short look at that a few weeks ago

[hasty bison]

@jolly lantern Thanks for confirmation 😉

[scenic cove]

As I said, the only mod that would have done so... instead became this CDLC

[west schooner]

not only the CSLA but some of the US Military stuff has not been introduced into arma yet either, either that or hasnt been givena face lift in some time so im glad CSLA decided to implement cold war US becasue arma 3 is severely lacking, i was especially pleased to see humvees with 60's :D... we do have plenty of modern US military stuff but not nearly enough 80's 90's US military stuff.

[scenic cove]

Now if only some of the US Military stuff has not been introduced into arma yet either was all that US '85 consisted of at launch...

[west schooner]

took me a second there lol.. but yeah there is so much more id like to see, patriot missiles, more m113 variations with/out armored turret, command vehicles, dune buggies, jeeps, more humvee varaints, ect.. the list goes on haha

[thick parcel]

AH-1 😉

[west schooner]

C-130...that isnt friggn grey! lol

[inner jackal]

Jeeps would be very cool... After all US Seventh Army didn't completely update to HMMWVs until the very late 80s. Were Patriots deployed in USAREUR?

[west schooner]

not sure, either way it could be added as hypothetical im sure they were though

[inner jackal]

I guess they'd maybe be replacing Hawks? 🤔 After all at that point they were simply an anti-aircraft system

[west schooner]

Hawks would be neat too, i mean im not entirely certain of the time period and theater alot of things got developed around that time, i just want to see more of it in arma 3 lol didnt they use hueys back then with m60's painted black? i remember watching a gulf war movie seeing hueys bieng used

[scenic cove]

For the curious, the majority of these appear to be Iron Curtain's 'not found in any non-CSLA-depicting mod' vehicles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Armoured_fighting_vehicles_of_Czechoslovakia

[sour ginkgo]

I'd rather say, that that was what many were looking forward.

[scenic cove]

In the sense that there actually wasn't much overlap in assets depicted?

[raven glen]

It really seems the DLC was supposed to focus on armored/vehicle assets considering their noticeably higher quality than the rest of the dlc, along with how many are unique

[sour ginkgo]

In the sense that they can be very good combined

[inner jackal]

Exactly that

[scenic cove]

Oh yeah, and I am hearing positive things about GM+CSLA compatibility in the sense of 'won't crash to desktop unlike CSLA+SOG-until-today'

[sour ginkgo]

It would have been not so good if they'd try to build a west german faction in

But then again, some might complain that they now "need" two CDLC

[trim zinc]

I think people were fine with CSLA being another cold war CDLC up tell the point they saw the lower quality assets and A2 ports. There was actually a lot of hype in at least the redit for it.

[light talon]

They didn’t have Jeep’s either

[raven glen]

Isn't there a GM compatibility patch no? Then you can get the units

[light talon]

Mutts are not Jeeps

[sour ginkgo]

True.

[thick parcel]

Mutts are Geeps

source: OFP campaign

[sour ginkgo]

I wrote it already several times, but once more, for me the campaign is missing (and the czech voices). It's simply not a complete package without - for me. Everything else can be fixed and polished over time - and if it takes two years, so be it

[thick parcel]

Well, even that may be possibly added post-release

[inner jackal]

True, but I'm English and call everything that looks like that a "jeep" 😉

[trim zinc]

I feel there is definitely some sort of story/campaign in the works, they have several "story" characters already in the game.

[sour ginkgo]

Yes, but before that, I probably won't buy

[west schooner]

they took a willies, stuck a 60 on it painted it up in camo, gave to some various roll cage and armors, anc called it a mutt... lol i think we all know what was meant when we said jeeps in thcoldwar era xD

[visual leaf]

What is the real city of "Gabreta"?

[sour ginkgo]

As far as I read somewhat of a campaign is already half finished, but didn't work that well

[thick parcel]

wdym?

[visual leaf]

That doesn't appear in google maps

[trim zinc]

I gotten the impression the terrain was 100% fictional

[thick parcel]

Gabreta is an old celtic(?) term for the area the map takes place in

[thick parcel]

It's fictionized Bohmerwald, gimme a sec for map

https://www.google.com/maps/place/384+51+Volary/@48.9277052,13.8132011,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x477364cc95fbd1a5:0x400af0f66155d90!2s382+78+Lipno+nad+Vltavou!3b1!8m2!3d48.6393267!4d14.2293199!3m4!1s0x4774bc08b798941b:0x400af0f66162350!8m2!3d48.9087928!4d13.8865471

Check this out

It's not 1:1 recreation, but I think the feel gets across

The body of water in the south is the Lipno reservoir, the river in the middle being Vltava

Airbase is fictional

[light talon]

Not the same at all.

[sour ginkgo]

That's quite unlikey. Gabreta is latin

[thick parcel]

Might've gotten it mixed up, apologies, but it's an ancient term for the area

[sour ginkgo]

For the Boehmerwald - the one and only. I was sceptical since I know, that there is no written language sources from continental celts 😉

[visual leaf]

It seems that Gabreta is used for the whole forest range at the triple German, Czechia and Autria frontiers.

[thick parcel]

Sorry 😅

[visual leaf]

So Austria could have been featured too 😅

[west schooner]

MUTT is just an acronymn they made for the Ford Jeep that they built it off of, and was widley called a jeep by its service members over the MUTT

[visual leaf]

This looks spot on, also some Arma 3 assets In real life too!!!

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.9011552,13.8869459,3a,75y,38.09h,88.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSHa6ze1dUbafhlUhn0ShWQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[thick parcel]

I like how distinct the two countries are

Architecture but also traffic signs

You can instantly tell where you are 😄

[thick parcel]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabreta_Forest
Some more Gabreta info

[light talon]

They also call 5 tons , deuces

[sour ginkgo]

Yeah, might be overtaken from Greek

But I thought he wrote in latin

[sour ginkgo]

Actually completely off-topic, but here we go: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0197%3Abook%3D7%3Achapter%3D1%3Asection%3D5

And there is no real information to that: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=*gabrh%3Dta&la=greek&can=*gabrh%3Dta0&prior=mega/lh

[raven glen]

Did the hotfix change the classname for the Stinger? I loaded up a mission where I was modifying loadouts and it says the US 85 stinger class no longer exists, and the AA specialist unit I had placed was gone. The unit is still placeable in the asset browser with a stinger

[hasty bison]

Sorry for that: US85_FIM92 / US85_FIM92_Mag

[normal condor]

How do I join a server or play the single player mode. Me and another arma 3 veteran literally cant see how to.?

[graceful wedge]

SP missions are under scenario's CLSA SP missions

and for MP select multiplayer and join a server

just the 3 tabs are not visible, BUT top down buttons + selection is very much there

[normal condor]

Thank you, Me and my friend missed it under scenarios for some reason. I guess I was expecting it to be in campaigns for some reason.

[plush hedge]

After spending some more time poking around CSLA, some semi-cohesive thoughts:

• DLC seems to be in a contradictory place of the devs having a good technical understanding of how to make a mod, but no understanding of what people actually expect from a mod. Things are configured "correctly" - functionally - but completely detached from any established standards like naming, classname prefixing, magwell usage, etc.
• This impression is deepened by the devs apparently being surprised that people expect these standards to be followed
• The actual quality of the assets is, like, okay (mostly) but what concerns me more is that the devs - and BI - saw them and apparently didn't realise what was going to happen when they were released, even though it should have been obvious that the community was going to have a negative reaction to reused Arma 2 assets unless they were polished to a much higher standard.
• Conclusion: this DLC and everyone involved in it have been locked in a development bunker with no internet access since 2013?
• Conclusion 2: this DLC's catastrophic launch was a trainwreck that should've been seen coming a mile in advance, and could have been avoided, and it's a shame that it was not avoided because the DLC's concept is, on paper, perfectly good.

[timid quartz]

Oh they were told about community response, devs responded with "rofl" emojis

The more days pass, the more I think people need to be made aware just how fucking poorly the cDLC stuff was handled from the CSLA devs towards the community testers. Our feedback was ignored or made fun of, written up as "toxic" or they just added "rofl" emojis to legit feedback like "model quality isn't in order" etc

Also didn't help that testers weren't requested to sign any NDA (lmao wat) and CSLA devs kept saying they couldn't discuss stuff under NDA lmao

[wispy solar]

It sounds a bit funny

[inner jackal]

Here we go again. You have made your point repeatedly... Don't disagree with much of what you've said as background but seriously...

[scenic cove]

I take it that this is about config stuff as opposed to visuals and sounds? (I haven't heard much about the 'non-visible' model LODs other than the infamous 'Quad Bike bounding box', but we already had an explanation there, so I'm not aware of any other issues with the models.)

[timid quartz]

This is new information I just added however. It's ridiculous how little CSLA devs cared about tester feedback, now its sitting at a 23% and they go "huh why"

[timid quartz]

Feel free to get a moderator to mute me if I am breaking any rules

[wispy solar]

It sounds like valid root cause analysis to me... as long as things don't get personal it can be helpful. Of course more important is looking forward but learning from past experiences is necessary too.

[inner jackal]

Lol. Wheb did I suggest that 🤦

[hollow cloak]

That's incredibly bad on the part of the devs if they were just dismissing legimate concerns with emojis. However I think Id want some evidence instead of hearsay for that. Since you weren't under NDA to begin with it sounds like you could even disseminate that evidence of it exists.

[fossil condor]

the previous beta was on a gentlemens agreement of discression.

[mystic spoke]

I bought CSLA right away, and intended to not to refund it despite of the reviews to support the community devs. After seeing the attitude of the developers towards testers and valid constructive feedback, I've decided to request refund for the DLC

[crisp comet]

All of the launchers use the same sound. The SMAW does not even have the spotter rifle on top, like it does in RHS. This is lazy crap. I want BI to give all those who are stuck with this crud a refund.

Control-RMB switches to iron sights FFS.

God damn.

Shift-RMB does nothing.

RHS mod has a SMAAW and you press F to switch to the spotter rifle, but this sh1t mod does not even have that function.

[raven glen]

Isnt the ctrl RMB the same thing as the numpad slash? Basic Arma knowledge of mechanics for any player

[wispy solar]

Tbf it's just one perspective and sounds more like developer inexperience than arrogance... (working from the said hearsay here)

[inner jackal]

Oh shit... am a moron... I read "on top" and assumed you were talking about the iron sight 🤦 They very much have to fix that. Sorry mate

[crisp comet]

I prefer Cntrl-RMB. It is easier.

[inner jackal]

True, but in this case it actually is next fire-mode so...

[fading snow]

I can confirm what Sherm said. But I will not leak any chats.
We testers gave constructive and factual feedback and an overall response said the feedback was "toxic" which definitely was not the case.

But I also have to mention the more we discussed this the more factual both sides became. But in the end most of the stuff could never really be discussed to the end because we didn't sign an NDA...

I can understand and also myself feel and felt a little "upset" by that initial response cuz it sounded like we were being dumbfounded and or ignored.

In the end I really hope everything works out.
I'm glad to see Bohemia addressed the topic officially on twitter and will hopefully come forward soon. And I'm also glad to see that the Devs put out an Hotfix so early which fixed quite a lot of issues.

I'm sure everyone at CSLA and everyone who is interested in this CDLC will have a long road ahead of 'em. Let's hope everything plays out well

[crisp comet]

This is how it works in RHS mod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8VvBSGfZO8

[hollow cloak]

I have now seen considerable amounts of evidence, including that testers called out the fact that an OFP pistol was initially included as late as September 2020. When testers pointed this out the devs responded with rolling face emojis. To say that I'm disappointed is kind of an understatement. I can forgive pretty much any mistake, but straight up arrogance and unprofessionalism is a big no-no. I also don't like how devs passed this off as "toxicity" on the part of the testers, who seem to have genuinely been trying to help. Up till right now I was happy with my purchase, but I really am not comfortable supporting devs that treat some of their most important colleagues that poorly. I hope this was an isolated incident, or that maybe the evidence was edited or presented in such a way as to mask a more balanced view of the devs, but until I see anything to the contrary, this is pretty sad.

I really hope the devs are the ones to apologize/own up to/fix this, and not Bohemia. This specific issue is on their shoulders. Bohemia failed to properly market this product, and totally failed to manage expectations, but they didn't ignore their testers or respond in a crass manner.

[wispy solar]

What's important IMO is how the devs handle going forward...

The map is a big plus anyway and a worthy addition to ARMA 3, would like to hear more about it but it seems most people just ignore this aspect 🤔

A high quality map if adopted by the community is well worth the price of the DLC for me

[crisp comet]

The map is very good, I was flying in Editor, I had nearly 3 KM view dist and had 40 fps. With 2 KM view dist in towns on foot I get 60 fps. If Bohemia put the map in the vanilla game it would be awesome. All building are enterable, or 80-90 % at least. And very well detailed.

[visual leaf]

I don't think BI love us enough to actually do this, but if miracles do happen and they DO decide to compensate this improper release with adding this map and its assets to vanilla not only will everyone be happy but it might help the cDLC be fixed faster as they will focus on the assets that do remain behind the cDLC paywall while current Arma devs do the last tweakings on the map itself. But the chances of this happening are like 1% to none thou... But we can always daydream I guess. The map could use lots of optimisations actually.

Now that I think of it, it might actually be a very smart move from BI to move the map into vanilla. There will be lots of missions being made by the community and many will buy the rest of the cDLC to get access to the assets that better fit the map 😉

Because the other option of not moving the map into vanilla will only mean that 90% of the current player base, guided by the starting reviews alone, will never get to experience the map at all and also never even considering buying the cDLC in the future.

[inner jackal]

If you want your money back get the refund from Steam. Mamy apparently have

[visual leaf]

Some people want to pay, but get better chances of seeing the assets and the map being used for a change. How many Livonia missions have you seen on player streams lately? How many online servers on Livonia?

[inner jackal]

The Livonua map costs more for DayZ players than Gabreta and there are quite a few other nice things in CSLA

Not excusing the bad shite

[visual leaf]

That was not my point nor my question...

My point is that liberating the map from the paywall might actually result in the rest of the cDLC selling better... it would be an experiment really, but this time the experiment is more viable as BI doesn't have many sells to loose if the move doesn't bring more players to the cDLC, as with the current reviews CSLA won't sell any better than the other cDCLs anyway....

[honest chasm]

@visual leaf if BI would incorporate this map and its assets into vanilla... would you then spend your money and buy the CDLC that would then NOT contain this map? (as exclusive content to buyers)

Asking seriously

[visual leaf]

Good point, and the answer is No, not for its current price no.... but it is not that the cDLC won't contain the map, it will not hold the map just to itself. Or perhaps exclusivity will last a year... But the whole community gets the map in vanilla and they sell the rest of the assets for USD 5 I would certainly buy it

I am just afraid that so many players will not get to experience the map just because of the current reviews...

[honest chasm]

So... Basically "give us the good thing that most people praise, for free, and keep the other stuff, that most people don't like, paid"?
Don't you think it's a bit absurd?

[visual leaf]

Yeah, it is, you are right, I can't come to a solution where the situation would be optimal....

[honest chasm]

Okay, I have no more questions 🤣

I just hope your employer does the same with your own work 😜

If anything, this should be the other way around

[visual leaf]

Good point. There is no solution where BI doesn't give up revenue really. Because leaving this as it is might result on the best assets of the cDLCs remaining underplayed and underused like a complete waste of good work.

[visual leaf]

But now I see things differently, got a new answer for you!

My work was only partially good, and the market rejected it. Rather than having it go to waste I would prefer to share a part for free and ask my boss just to compensate my costs

The boss would then have to evaluate if they want to loose some money to pay me instead of the market paying me... because the market did not like the whole of my work but in the long run the boss will get benefits... the benefit of having a happier playerbase that will trust more and buy Arma 4 for sure... having faith in such company

[honest chasm]

I think this is the same as with Tanoa. You can't sell a terrain and expect that everyone will play on it. You just suck it up and live with the fact that some people will simply not buy Apex and will never play on Tanoa 🤷

[shy chasm]

I mean, you can get Apex on sale nowadays for like... 15USD, plus base game and DLC 1.

[visual leaf]

It is different, Tanoa assets are on the platform... any mission maker can use them even if they didn't get the APEX dlc

[honest chasm]

So what? I still know people who don't want to buy Apex, even for that price

[shy chasm]

Then I have unflattering things to say about those people's choices.

[honest chasm]

I literally talked to them a month ago about that

[visual leaf]

Tanoa was a bad example because APEX is arguably the most successful Arma 3 DLC... Livonia is a better example

[shy chasm]

The issue was Apex' original cost. $40 for the expansion alone.

CDLCs are a much better deal, generally speaking.

[south sonnet]

So anyway, I think that CSLA should definitely keep the map, since that's one of the strongest points. They should put more attention into 'common' assets, as in assets that mod makers would probably want to incorporate into their own mods, like how CWE uses a whole bunch of GM assets to portray 80s Norway.

[shy chasm]

Half price for a map and assets, and in case of GM, a campaign.

[honest chasm]

No, it's a very good example of a very good expansion that STILL has some people not willing to spend money on it and hence are missing out on all the missions happening on that terrain

[visual leaf]

Ok here is the final thing: I would gladly pay the current price of CSLA for the map alone... no doubts! But only if I know that enough players will get the cDLC so I find some servers to play in and some amazing missions on the workshop... Because a map is nothing if there aren't servers and missions for it!

Now, considering that I now don't believe many players/mission makers will buy CSLA... my hopes for content are next to none, and so the real value of the cDLC is CERO for me now

[shy chasm]

The other issue is, some people may be spoiled by the dev response, where even if the map is good, they don't want to reward such behavior with their money.

And since you can't play (on the new map) without the cDLC, even an amazing map won't be used.

[honest chasm]

Basically, my point is: we're not in the void. On the other end there are people who worked to give you these (faulty or not) assets, weapons AND terrain. In one package.
And if you now ask for a part of their work to be released for free, that means that these people won't be paid for content that is good and that they deserve to be paid for.
Bohemia isn't going to magically make money appear out of thin air

[shy chasm]

I mean, if you could parse stuff out and just... sell the map and the not-map, given these things, you might salvage some goodwill.

(Even if very few will buy the not-map)

[visual leaf]

It is not an easy situation and I understand your point of view completely, and I am not asking for the devs to not get paid at all... but you do a sales forecast with all the data you have collected about the previous cDLCs and if you don't get enough sales to break even with that forecast then BI will have to assume some losses now, in order to get more sales in the future with future products basically

[honest chasm]

I would assume BI losses will be close to zero, anyway 😉

[shy chasm]

Depends on the contract.

[visual leaf]

Close to zero in monetary terms but the potential revenue loss from the players that no longer trust your quality assurance or your statements and will not buy your future products, at least not on release and not at full price?

How many players did DayZ lost because of such behaviour that will never come back to a BI product....?

[shy chasm]

I imagine it's either a full percentage split, or some stipend promised to CSLA and then everything after that being a percentage split.

[honest chasm]

True. They may assess the current situation, look at how promising future cDLCs are and then act accordingly

Maybe there is a "PF2" just about to be released, for all we know?

[visual leaf]

I work on the stock exchange and when companies make mistakes the cost is almost never zero... there is always something lost be it in the present or the future. But mistakes can be compensated and the cost of compensation is often overshadowed by the future revenue that that relatively small compensatory action ensured.

[honest chasm]

Literally any official documents that are available all say about percentage split unconditionally, FYI

[shy chasm]

My point is that there's no way to show one's ire towards the studio (for whatever reason, or lack of reason) without it affecting BI in the best of case, and at worst the devs are already paid and laugh on the way to the bank as all the refunds demanded are for BI to eat.

Meaning the only change one can hope for is going forward.

[visual leaf]

Well, with @honest chasm clarification about their contract, I don't think the CSLA devs were already paid anything other than what the cDLC sales collected and the % stipulated on their contract

[shy chasm]

Right, which just means it's the 'better' scenario, which still would involve BI taking the losses too.

[honest chasm]

To clarify: I have no insider knowledge on the matter and while there is a chance that the CSLA team managed to obtain a different contract, I find that unlikely

[visual leaf]

Well in the current speculated scenario the ones taking the big losses are the devs of CSLA and not really BI. BI is suffering from a "worst case scenario in terms of potential revenue and also on the PR department"

[shy chasm]

But hypothetically speaking, if everyone got a refund on Iron Curtain, does that mean that the devs gotta return their paychecks?

I would think not.

At least, not what they've already been paid.

[honest chasm]

Let's say that for all I know, the payouts for cDLC teams are not immediate

[shy chasm]

But BI, the company would have to give that money back, I'm sure.

[visual leaf]

We would have to read the contract clause defining the "Refund Procedures"

[shy chasm]

This could be true.

[visual leaf]

Most likely true... since Steam itself probably delays the whole transfer so they can ensure that their own consumer protecting practices are respected

[shy chasm]

That's fair.

[frigid gorge]

Any mission maker can use CSLA assets without owning the CDLC, same as Apex or Contact. throught compat patch

Only the map itself is restricted behind paying

Correcting it since somebody said otherwise earlier

[visual leaf]

Yeah, how many downloads do you think the compat patch (mod) will get?

[frigid gorge]

How ever many people want to use those assets

[visual leaf]

GM has had better sales on release than CSLA and also has the amazing "compat patch" yet I see NO server using missions that use those assets via that compat patch. And the amount of missions using the GM Compat Patch assets is so small that end up being next to irrelevant

[frigid gorge]

"No servers" argument - just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist

Biggest amount of ArmA players are private communities. Public servers are dead, DLC or no DLC

[visual leaf]

Ok so servers do exist, it is just that no player from those servers care to stream nor publish anything about it here, on the BI forums or the steam workshop etc.

How about we tell our private ghosts stories too

Compat patches (mods) SUCK, no one likes to use them and having those doesn't mean shit really

[frigid gorge]

If you can't see people publishing things, doesn't mean it doesn't exist)

8.7k people use the compat patch for GM alone

[visual leaf]

Exactly, the fact that you don't see that the earth is flat doesn't mean that it isn't flat

[frigid gorge]

"No one" is a strong word coming from some random person

[frigid gorge]

Thanks for proving my point))))

[visual leaf]

It was a joke, the earth is not flat... 😅

[frigid gorge]

No, but your joke lies in reality. You claiming to content is posted with it = nobody uses it, is like a flat earther saying I don't see a curve - it's flat

3.7k subscribers to the PF compat

610 subscribers to the CSLA compat

[visual leaf]

I am subscribed to 100 mods, and use only 3, subscriptions mean sh*** really and you know it, subscription is not equal to use

[frigid gorge]

No I don't "know it". Please don't project your poor practices of not cleaning your subscriptions of non-used mod on myself or others

Also 100 mods is an awful little, my community probably uses 200 for our modpacks, 80 for a single one alone

[visual leaf]

You are missing the point. I see APEX assets in 90% of the new missions on the workshop, be it a building, chair, umbrella or whatever.... yet I see virtually CERO content from those COMPAT PATCHES on the workshop missions, and that was the whole point we were arguing about before

[frigid gorge]

That is also the beauty of using (properly made) mods and CDLCs - you don't need to have just the content 24/7. Somebody might have an OP on another map, with another theme, but the mod/CDLC runs in the background and smaller assets are used for it

Again, I don't care for singleplayer steam missions - those are not my experience on the game, and I'd be willing to bet not the majority of ArmA players in general

Furthermore - GM is a niche subject, it is very obvious that the amount of missions using it won't be high compared to more popular themes

[visual leaf]

You are forgetting that mods get outdated, become incompatible with newer versions of ACE and/other very popular mods etc, become incompatible with newer versions of Arma 3 even. You rely TOO much on mods and that is one of the key factors that divide our community, you have missions that depend on 200 mods and 100 GB of extra storage space just to use like 10% of those 100GB of space on any given mission, and you are downloading triple A games sized content in the form of mods and all that for what? for a 60 minutes mission... makes no sense really!

It makes me so mad when people come and say: Hey, there is a mod for this and for that and you can fix this issue with that mod and you can reduce this bug with that mod and you end up spending more time selecting, subscribing, downloading and configuring your mods than on the actually damn missions

And if your logic is correct, why should the CSLA fix their cDLC, they should just wait for a mod by the community that will soon do the work for them... and that is what an over reliance on mods creates, lazy developers and players that spend more time on the workshop than on the game itself.

[haughty mesa]

Does anyone know how to use the commander periscopes on the LAV? Mine seem to just be a placeholder mirror texture at the moment.

[frigid gorge]

I believe it's one of the issues, saw it reported in their discord

[haughty mesa]

well that kinda stinks

[visual leaf]

Hey I am sorry I got a little (a lot) carried away on my response before. This whole situation puts me on edge and I need to sleep too...

[lime zephyr]

Is it worth buying ignoring all the above negatives just to see more content (good ones)from the community in the form of cDLCs coming? I am ready to spend for that matter.

[visual leaf]

While there hasn't been any official confirmation of future cDLCs, rumour has it that there are some more on the oven.

If you don't own the other cDLCs I would buy those first and wait to see if this one gets all the fixes it needs

[lime zephyr]

The only reason i have not bought the SOG one is that there was no single player stuff. I do not have friends and i love playin single player.

[visual leaf]

COOP is the same as single player, you just host it as if it were multiplayer but play alone with bots

[lime zephyr]

I purchased GM and i thought it was pretty good

[lime zephyr]

Is it viable?

How do i do that?

[visual leaf]

Completely viable, also there are many Single Player missions from the community for SOG on the steam workshop.

[lime zephyr]

Will I get AI squad when i play solo? no right?

[visual leaf]

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdnjEEd5nGk

[visual leaf]

It depends on the mission you choose! It was made to be played with other players so some missions might be very hard playing alone even with Ai bots but it can be done...

[lime zephyr]

Oh we can choose to have AI squad? thats awesome

[visual leaf]

Besides the SOG team is still working on ironing out the last remaining issues and also balancing missions etc. It will only get better with time and the team is top notch...

[plush hedge]

The visual quality of the models has been well-covered and I didn't feel the need to go over it again. So yes, I was talking about config things, UI strings, etc. Things like how item names don't follow the vanilla standards, or how they didn't expect people would want to use the new assets in the editor. Things that are not actually broken but demonstrate being completely out of touch

*I was talking a bit about the visual quality - like I said it's mostly okay but they should have known people would expect better from a DLC

[sand storm]

I'd like to have what all the people saying that "map is very good" are having. The map is literally CWR2-tier quality. CWR2 was great deal for free ten years ago but the map is bland, non-detailed (aside from forests) and full of re-used assets.

I don't mind wasting money from time to time but it seems that this joke of a DLC keeps "validating" itself daily and I have to stare at the "validating" button for literally an hour before I can play the damn game without the DLC.

[fading snow]

If that's your opinion that's your opinion and that's ok. But if other people think or feel like the "map is very good" then that's their opinion.

Also that validating issue you spoke of I don't know of. Might me good to report it on their discord

[hasty bison]

I'm sorry, but did you look at the map ingame? There are more than 250 new house models + also many new objects.

[sand storm]

Yes and I instantly got CWR2 flashbacks from these small towns. They desperately lack the vegetation, litter and minor details such as pavements, bricks, fences. The thing is, it feels like the objects don't come together to make an impression of an actual place. It's like there an empty ground with a road and some buildings, kinda like in OFP. Livonia is a great example of the opposite I think.

[thick parcel]

Please let us know where you found these villages

I've seen fences and pavements all over the place

I personally found the map really nice, there are different places of interest such as swamps, mountains with cut-down trees, lush groves and meadows.

I also really like the diversity between the German and Czechoslovak sides, they feel very distinct

[sand storm]

North-western side of the map. I'll need to re-download the thing to show the screens.

[thick parcel]

Any town names or guides?

I can send screens

[sand storm]

Let's pick a random small village and take a look, I didn't pay attention to names.

[thick parcel]

Here's an imgur link: https://imgur.com/a/gKU0A5d

Phillipsreut, nw of the map

I find the props and general clutter here to be fine to be honest

You can see little gardens, pavements, fences etc

[willow frigate]

I just found the compatibility data mod for this. Gonna try it out to test the gear. I saw the map. Great job actually. I really like it.

[sand storm]

@thick parcel Thanks! Yeah, here's what I'm talking about: https://imgur.com/24Z5AxZ
The areas highlighted with red are uncannily empty, that's what gives off the CWR/OFP vibes.
I feel like there must be something, Chernarus has vegetation and litter, Livonia has vegetation cranked up to eleven. Maybe in real life these places in CZ are populated with some minute details that don't make sense in Arma but without them it feels artificial.

[west schooner]

i mean those areas look fine to me... could always drop some objects in through the eden editor if it bothers you.

[willow frigate]

Someone should use the Enhanced Video Settings mod and crank it up to UItra+ on ground level to see how good or bad the map looks.

[thick parcel]

Here's a ground level shot: https://imgur.com/a/SRtSdOB

Clutter looks absolutely fine to me

[willow frigate]

Looks good, as good as Chernarus 2020.

[fossil condor]

@sand storm if you can provide some pictures of examples of such details from Chernarus or any other map on a feedback ticket that could be helpful for the devs to understand what you are after.

[fickle narwhal]

I can put a red box around parts of my yard and every yard of every house I've ever been to. Some places are empty.

also worth noting that the more shit you put in the bigger the problem for the AI

that looks way better than CWR2... and I know, I made most the CWR2 maps

[hasty bison]

Jakerod hit it exactly. We had to reduce some of the objects and vegetation due to AI.

[sand storm]

Give me some time to get to the computer, I'll take some screens to illustrate.

But yea, AI has a bit of a problem on Livonia.

[wispy solar]

Those houses look nice and have interiors. The small objects around make it feel people are living messy lives 😃

[thick parcel]

It's Bohmerwald after all 😄

[sand storm]

Okay, here's the comparison: https://imgur.com/a/OPahlho

Notice how much more minor utilitarian objects there are thrown randomly around on Livonia. Also the little imperfections of buildings (uneven roofs and wall planks), road patches, uneven sidewalks, angled lampposts. On the other hand, consider the fifth screen - people would definitely have made something under or around that three, no way it would have stood there without at the very least trampled grass.

Admittedly upon closer inspection the map isn't as bad (and Hluk is not the best city it has to offer) but the lack of minor details and imperfections make it feels a bit too gamey and unrealistic. Yes, the closer a nation is to Germany, the more people are obsessed with having their villages and cities in perfect order (I'm not even joking, it's very noticeable when you drive around Europe) but there's gotta be something that indicates wear, usage and imperfections. Not that there isn't but I think it can be cranked up a little.

[hasty bison]

Btw, great video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWqijI-tDsk

[sand storm]

To be fair, the forests are very good - and that's something that often goes overlooked in Arma despite the fact that a big chunk of the action actually happens in or around the forests.

[wispy solar]

That looks quite nice indeed. Feels the map is on par with Livonia - maybe L is a bit better with vegetation placement in the open / around towns, but forests are better with G

[hasty bison]

Forests.. some screens 😉

[patent rover]

Sort of off topic from the map discussion, I am disappointed about the duplication of assets within the DLC. The editor lists several backpacks and vests that are the same item in model and texture, sometimes with varying load values. I'm confused as to why the creators didn't make a single item to fit all purposes (just one Alice Pack instead of Alice Pack (M16), Alice Pack (M21)... and so on) instead of making what appears to be a separate item listed for every variation of loadout used with that gear.

[hasty bison]

Thank you for reporting. Duplications in arsenal will be fixed.

We try to collect reports from all relevant sources, set priorities and solve those that are within our capabilities.

[raven glen]

Ever look inside vehicle inventories? They have ready to go backpacks pre-filled with different gear, whether for a corpsman, rifleman, whatever. They need separate classes for that to work im pretty sure, but it definently is good for something like an emergency disembark and you need your AT bag filled and ready

[upper galleon]

Too bad you guys did not go for releasing terrain separately as well in the form of cheaper paid regular Arma 3 DLC (available for CSLA CDLC buyers for free). You'd have made some extra cash off it because Gabreta is very good quality terrain

[west schooner]

that wouldnt make sense to me id think if someone had the cash to shell out for a map, they would shell out a little bit more extra for the rest of the stuff for the DLC, especially since when things are fixed up and ready to rock, which i have confidence that it will, then units and communities that operate in the cold war era are most likely going to make this a required item for there mod pack.

[meager dome]

not just the ai. you'll also get a performance hit after a while.

[scenic cove]

Is that allowed under the CDLC program? So far neither GM nor PF has had such a paid 'follow-on' 🤔

This here is in the Editor, via Edit Vehicle Appearance and a CSLA-specific Object Specific section of the Attributes window: https://youtu.be/XTpvMjW3SdE

[upper galleon]

No clue whether it's allowed but it would make sense if you think of all the players who like the idea of new, quality map but don't really care about the idea behind the mod.. After 8 years, majority of players are sick to death of Altis. Stratis doesn't have towns worth mentioning and Malden's not fit for vehicle warfare. Livonia.. part of Contact which costs 25USD/EUR - and not too many players have gotten it because steep price. Costs even more than CDLC's. Good quality new terrain to play on - for handful of usd/eur it'd be pretty attractive. Yeah free maps exist too but their quality isn't consistent, even large packages like CUP Maps.

[wispy solar]

Contact seems very popular though

[upper galleon]

"very popular", defined how? When KoTH set up Livonia server after platform release, it died in a week having 10 players at most and sitting mostly empty. When you run Antistasi or Liberation missions using Livonia, 80% of the players connecting get kicked due lacking DLC.

[wispy solar]

Public Steam data

Nearly as large install base as Apex, and it's quite much newer...

[upper galleon]

Doesn't explain why there's very little sense in trying to run servers on Livonia

water under the bridge anyway

[wispy solar]

Zerty/Jammy Warfare supports it too, and runs time to time on Livonia

and milsim-ish communities use it

KotH on Livonia could be fun

[azure swift]

I heard this CDLC is ass? Is it still littered with bugs

[sand bough]

I never think this CDLC is an ass, or butt, or the part where located in our back

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[azure swift]

👍

[sand bough]

I can't say much. I just gotta say I'm really happy with the terrain itself

[fading snow]

For the most people it's not about bugs. There are some but nothing game breaking only small stuff.
It comes down to the asset quality (vehicles, weapons, uniforms etc.) that people are really unhappy with.

Map is really good. There is a good variety of SP content but nothing with a real storyline that introduces you to the CDLC's setting. Some MP missions which I can't say anything about since I haven't played them. Overall for 12€ you can get it IMO. Also devs put out a hotfix pretty quick let's hope that continues so it gets better with time. You could also just wait and see how it develops in the future.

[sand bough]

Indeed. Everything works pretty fine. As soon as you focus into small graphics, you'll be disappointed

[twilit iris]

I think more people are reasonable about it now that everything is cooled down

[twilit iris]

Everyone’s gotta get their initial 2 cents in on the bandwagon, and always one up the last guy

[sour ginkgo]

Also you can just read through the reviews (the lenghtier ones) and then build your own opinion. Most more descriptive agree, that the map is good and the rest somewhat below expectations. Campaign is missing. Also you can download the compatibility data and take a look for yourself - won't see the terrain though.

[thick parcel]

Best thing you can do is download the compat data and take a look 🙂

Tldr: map great, vehicles good, infantry not so great

[little gulch]

Game 2013, cDLC 2021, cDLC graphics/textures 2009...

[wispy solar]

Isn't there a campaign? So it's just isolated missions?

Reviews are still only 23% positive, that hasn't gone up 🤔

Same as 3 days ago

GM only has 53% positive too

GM's reviews were more negative than positive until after 4 months when it all flipped

SOG by far had the best launch

[thick parcel]

It's all about PR

And target audience

[copper monolith]

GM certainly had it rough as we had to establish the concept of CDLC in the first place. So a lot of negativity we get in the reviews was not related to the product but directed at the CDLC policy itself and against the idea of "paid mods" in general. That only really stopped early this year from what we can tell.

[thick parcel]

In my opinion a big game changer were the packed content updates at no extra cost

[sour ginkgo]

Also there are quite some critical reviews for GM, that really aim at A3 in general. Like "fix AI"

[thick parcel]

And don't forget 'Arma 4 when' 😄

[sour ginkgo]

Yeah, but to be fair: I also read some review(!) like "it's not free if you have to buy the DLC - liars!"

[leaden kite]

well. That isn't wrong per se

[nimble dove]

I don't understand why was the opportunity to cooperate with 3rd party game mode developers ignored. I think that it is very important.
SOG did it in advance and they were happy to bring other developers on board so that they could adapt their creations for PF. I think that it worked very well.

[sour ginkgo]

It is, when shorten "free update" to "free"

[leaden kite]

in the end it's all about value proposition. If you see enough value to buy X at Y price, then go for it. If not, don't. The updates just shift the value along an axis. More/less value, etc.

[sour ginkgo]

Yeah, but not reading what you buy at all or in this case, hammering a review, because you got news of a free update, but didn't get, because you hadn't bought the product, is just ... well ...

[leaden kite]

people are dumb

[scenic cove]

Ignored by who?

[nimble dove]

By CSLA

[sour ginkgo]

Honestly, reading Steam reviews is often ok, reading their forums ... probably users there are often simply very young

[twilit iris]

I don't think it was ignored, probably just wasn't thought about, no way they could've coordinated with all those game mode devs in the time after SOG releasing to try and meet the same standards

[nimble dove]

S.O.G. had that in mind long time before the release. And it makes sense because people want to play a game (mode) after all, so they will be waiting for the port of their favourite game (mode) to the new CDLC.
I suggested porting my game mode to CSLA in advance and was rejected, but was accepted as an S.O.G., it was many months ago.
:/

I really don't see how this idea can be missed, so far I am under the impression that most arma mod makers know each other and are aware of who is doing what.

[upper galleon]

To an extent. Some teams are more amenable to cooperation and coordination of updates than others. The community isn't exactly all nice and friendly it has quite a lot of prickly ones as well. Beneficially working together very much the exception in most cases.

[simple quiver]

no?

[wispy solar]

I already had GM when all those updates happened (and haven't really checked it since) but they were indeed very impressive. If CSLA gets the same kind of batches of new high quality vehicles added (we know they were working on some) or even just better polish of the existing ones, it could be well worth the money. But currently the narrative is patterned by the internet lynch mob and the fact that many assets don't live up to expectations.

[ionic flame]

SOG has a really big team and a lot of backend support for the developers, other DLC teams might struggle to find time and resource to engage like we did. Its not easy to think of all the opportunities when your focus is a small team and a lot of assets and a giant terrain

[scenic cove]

That makes SOGPF's developers sound like a unicorn, so to speak, compared to even seemingly major mod teams for A3

[ionic flame]

Thats absolutely my point yeah, i wish people didnt keep holding us up as an example as we’re more of an extreme.

Its unfair to compare DLCs as we have such radically different resourcing and goals

Im pretty sure no other creator DLC will be as expensive to produce as SOG was

[scenic cove]

... that makes the CDLC program sound very 'it's all downhill from here'...

[ionic flame]

I just hope Bohemia thinks about it and in future maybe opens up a tendering process to teams to make content maybe

With them covering some of the investment, but thats a different channel topic

The lack of qualified, capable, and motivated artists and encoders is a big bottleneck to any dlc

[scenic cove]

So it's basically the preexisting 'pipeline' issue as with assets creation for free mods

[ionic flame]

Having a little cash available could change things up

If you point at any of our dlcs problems 99% will likely come down to resourcing. And as for reusing content like buildings and props, show me any game that doesnt do that! Especially arma and dayz versions

So the best thing gamers can do to help is to resource the dlc by buying it! As a happy dlc team will make more content

Its better than crowdfunding because you get the MVP up front

[sour ginkgo]

Is reusing buildings and the like really that much critized?

[ionic flame]

We really need to flip the narrative from demanding certain content and quality at the point of sale, to supporting our favourite community teams to up their game and expand their repertoire

We’ve seen a fair bit of it yes, like people expect every building to be new - which is not only a dumb use of scarce team resources, its not remotely in line with bohemias own policies

So we get whacked with all kinds of crazy aspirations and people forget its a stretch for any of us to even deliver a nice well rounded product!

[twilit iris]

People are oddly brutal about buildings for some reason, all the reused buildings aren't the spotlight, unique locations are in place for all the cdlc that highlight new assets

[sour ginkgo]

I always had the impression that each new DLC should have some new created content, but not all of it.

[twilit iris]

I think the big issue is people expectations are the quality to remain totally consistent across cdlc

GM had all new buildings so they expected that of sog

without addressing its an entirely different team and all

[ionic flame]

Nobody should aim to make a terrain with completely new rocks, foliage, bushes, clutter, buildings and props. Thats insane in terms of input costs

[sour ginkgo]

But isn't the point in creating new buildings, that all other creators can use them too - to build a more varied environment?

[wispy solar]

It could take a while before the focus shifts to the different 3rd party dev teams and their brands. (Like it's in DCS currently already.) The criticism is party directed at BI I think... it's basically BI that sells the stuff.

[twilit iris]

People need to start looking at each cdlc as a separate project, I think people expect every one to one up the last

[wispy solar]

Whereas from the PoV of BI it's probably the teams are responsible for their own product and marketing, BI just provides the platform and some help with publishing etc.

Sink or swim with low investment from BI

[ionic flame]

Yeah i think a nicer storefront with interviews with the teams and brining out their passions and dreams would be a good way to win over the players, and also visible wishlists, voting for assets and roadmaps would be cool

[twilit iris]

Roadmaps would help but I'd hate for that kinda pressure to be put on teams that don't want that

[sour ginkgo]

I honestly think, that ED is demanding way more then BI.

[twilit iris]

it can be hard to promise something then tell that it wont be possible

you'll receive backlash till the end of time that you promised something

[ionic flame]

Yeah thats why it doesnt happen, but some things could be resourced by BI and then put on the roadmap

If i knew i had a $10,000 budget cash, i could promise you a mig-21 for example

As i know my team can deliver it and with actual milestone payments it would be guaranteed

[wispy solar]

Engaging the user base sounds like a good idea! Also with the whole thing one should take into account how new an idea the whole CDLC is for BI. There's gonna be more hits and misses in the future, DCS for sure had plenty of them with I think 2 projects that were eventually failed by the original dev - one of them pulled from the store (!) and another was taken up by ED themselves.

[ionic flame]

Yeah im not being critical, just more wishful around how creator dlc teams can receive better support from the community

Making it more of a relationship than a transaction - marketing #101

[wispy solar]

Yeah that. One problem with CSLA is that the team doesn't have a previous track record / CV (I personally know they've been modding for a while, is what I hear, but how about when it comes to commercial products?) and it's very hard to tell if they have a long term commitment to supporting this product

[twilit iris]

In the case of CSLA the option to put out a roadmap would really help with the rough reception to its release

[scenic cove]

One could have said that for a lot of the CDLC devs though, if you're talking about 'a track record from the perspective of a player who isn't in the modding scene themselves'

[sour ginkgo]

But isn't that rather shifting the entrepeneurs risk towards the customer. That is essentially crowdfounding, or not?

[ionic flame]

GM and CSLA needed more of that support. SOG aimed at that and resourced it ourselves and our reception reflects it. We had the resources to really target the narrative around the relationship, but even so lack of resourcing and no roadmap led to some negative comments that may not have been there if we could have covered the issues more openly

[wispy solar]

Yeah but I could perceive the value already being there at the release time. Any GM updates and so were just a plus, and the parts of gameplay etc. that I haven't yet tried out in SOG

[scenic cove]

I meant a previous track record / CV... for example, GalcomT and Mondkalb (and possibly Maverick) were 'known quantities' if you were a modder who'd been around long enough, but if you were someone who for example just played with a unit? They'd just be names plus whatever pre- and post-release Q&A articles were released 🤷

[timid quartz]

Didn't (a part) of CSLA team work on the A2 Czech DLC?

[wispy solar]

mm it's the only DLC for A2?

[timid quartz]

I am saying that some of the CSLA A3 devs have a track record for a commercial product, being the Czech DLC for A2 - iirc

If that's wrong, I will retract ny statement but I remember reading about that

[wispy solar]

Maybe CSLA is a long term project and they'll find more customers later on 🤔

[thick parcel]

I believe they were involved in the ACR DLC, yes

[nimble dove]

Some feedback on buildings:
I hope you have a look at collision boxes for infantry of the assets. Some doorways are hard to navigate through because player gets stuck unless he walks through the door at perfect straight angle. Doors I have spotted so far:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1710786701663296436/9D6FD79E3208043664B989D44E0B685F0AD696AD/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1710786701663296281/07F8048ABC59C1C96B8F1FCE59B93ACF48C1DB88/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1710786701663296141/AABDB4A784972BE2016E402B213BB370BF60D410/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1710786701663295879/791E58E99D3228A15EA604E4917B431EC61EC63C/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy

[short vortex]

Our work on ACR dlc was that we provided some of our assets that we had on hand and BI was interested in those. Same way we did it for A2:OA. The DLC itself was BI product from A to Z.

[nimble dove]

I've been having fight around the Rodstein Castle and the hit geometry doesn't seem to line up nicely to what I see with my eyes by more than 20cm, I hope it can be polished more at some point. It gets annoying when trying to shoot over a wall or something like this.

[frigid gorge]

Almost done with the weapons part of the review/workshop comparison I promised some days ago
Taking a bit longer than hoped due to personal laziness 😅

[visual leaf]

Comparison to CUP?

[frigid gorge]

Comparison of everything to all available mods and CDLCs, don't know why people so fixated on only CUP honestly

Not to shit on the CDLC, incase anybody thinks that
It's going to be simply showing everything that exists, and people can make their own decisions

But a little spoiler - CSLA is most definetly not far behind everywhere and in some cases even the best option, and that is only looking at weapons for now

I won't be comparing sounds or animations, as those can't be reasonably easily put into a Google document/pdf.., and it's alreqlady known that those two are a major weak point

But as the devs said in their discord - both are being worked on

[visual leaf]

Revamped sounds are going to be a game changer for sure, as even the models and animations are not as bad as the sound, which is the weakest point of the cDLC by far.

[timid quartz]

Not far behind for a paid addon vs free ones is still not a good thing

Look forward to your document though, interested to see

[frigid gorge]

For now if you wanna play with better sounds - there is a JSRS compat for most of the weaponry

[frigid gorge]

CDLC can't be the best at everything

a bit of GM and alot of PF is very questionable quality compared to mods on the workshop too, but still very enjoyable CDLCs

And in those cases - I just load the mods that are have some of the better quality assets together w the CDLC

[scenic cove]

The sounds can definitely be 'in the midst of a firefight' noticeable in a way that models and animations won't... once things are moving a lot of things can look a lot less 'not-good' then when you're posing them for a screenshot

[frigid gorge]

A bit off-topic.. what would be a good place to upload a huge PDF?
I'd rather not share the google document link if I don't have too, but I can't upload the PDF to discord either as it's.. ~200 MBs

[scenic cove]

As in infantry small arms? Primary, secondary/launchers, and sidearms

[frigid gorge]

Yes, there are such in those 3 categories

for example last thing I just wrote about in the doc - CSLA has the best Vz. 59 out there

[scenic cove]

Ooooh, the UK59... I recall that Chairborne specifically said that it was one of only two weapons not already replaced in CUP (with the other being the M47 Dragon)

[mystic spoke]

Dropbox?

[frigid gorge]

Example from launcher slot would be the FIM-92, example from pistol would be.. well, either of the Czech pistols

Since no counterparts of those two exists anywhere)

[scenic cove]

For the Czech pistols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_82

[frigid gorge]

I meant they don't exist anywhere else in ArmA

[scenic cove]

Yup, it's a CDLC exclusive for A3 just like the other 'CSLA-only IRL' assets

[frigid gorge]

Ty, will see if that works

anyway - those 3 where examples of non-arguably best quality assets

Less one-sided could be.. the M21 SWS. In my opinion - it's the best M21 SWS available anywhere

But I can imagine some people having a different opinion

[quaint citrus]

Some assets may be pretty solid

[scenic cove]

iirc the Hunting rifle is A2's CZ 550?

[frigid gorge]

Yes

There are 3 of those out there

CSLA, CUP, and FA Hunting Mod

[quaint citrus]

but there are more assets, and higher quality assets from many other, free, mods

[scenic cove]

Okay, admittedly I took points off from that one for the scope not being detachable

[quaint citrus]

It seems that, all in all, CSLA just isn't good enough

[frigid gorge]

Did the same

CSLA's one is the worst of the 3, it is basically 1 to 1 identical with the CUP one from what I can tell except that the scope can't be removed

While the FA one is by far the best

[quaint citrus]

I don't think DLCs should really touch vehicles/weapons

[frigid gorge]

In your opinion, but not as a fact

What?

[quaint citrus]

Sure

Just my opinion

[frigid gorge]

Wdym by "shouldn't touch"? Shouldn't add them at all..?

[quaint citrus]

Unless its a DLC focusing on something new to the A3 community

Yeah, thats my take. Probably an unpopular one

I'd much rather see DLCs focus on new buildings and terrains

[frigid gorge]

Yeah, very much so unpopular, atleast imo

[quaint citrus]

Haha fair enough

I just think that, in general, adding high-quality buildings are going to be far better for the general community than weapons or vehicles

[frigid gorge]

Maps are great too, but I prefer new toys to play with than new sandboxes to play inside

[quaint citrus]

unless those weapons and vehicles are both quality and completely new to the game's community

It may be a difference of hours?

I've played a lot of the game

And it gets boring being able to know the layout of every building in the game by memory

[frigid gorge]

I highly doubt more than me, if we gonna flex here)

[quaint citrus]

lol

I'm hovering around 5k played

[frigid gorge]

10k hours of A3, 1k hours of A3 Tools

[quaint citrus]

Fairs!

Still, my opinion remains

[frigid gorge]

Mhm, it's fair

[quaint citrus]

buildings>weapons/vehicles

[frigid gorge]

And way mode understandable after you explained it

[quaint citrus]

especially ones as destructible as the altis/malden ones

[frigid gorge]

I loved the building and map assets of from GM

There are just too few high quality European architecture

But I would love to see more big buildings

[quaint citrus]

Yeah there is one big building I can think of that has a decent interor

[frigid gorge]

RHSTERRACORA and Chernobyl Zone Buildings

[quaint citrus]

its a big cubic building like 5 stories tall with a big open roof

[frigid gorge]

Are the only two mods that add those kinds

[quaint citrus]

and tons of big glass windows

ooh yyeah the rhsterracore apartment buildings

[scenic cove]

There is something to be said for Gabreta buildings coming pre-furnished and as part of the terrain to mitigate performance impact

and some thought was put into 'interesting firefight' placement of said buildings when it came to the city and town layouts

[frigid gorge]

Indeed, I really appreciate that

I understand why many don't, but I believe furnished buildings make a map so much more fun

Imagine every Takistani building, but without rugs, tables, chairs, boxes, and other random things all over them.. I know I can't

but I can imagine that it would be way way worse

[granite crow]

It would give a mission creator the opportunity to utilize the building in a different capacity

[crystal parrot]

Luckily there's a useful module that allows you to hide terrain objects 🤓

[granite crow]

Yes, I know. Placing a building over another building always isn't the best choice. When furniture is apart of the model it makes it harder for the building to be used for another more than it was intended for.

[crystal parrot]

Imagine Altis with furnitured buildings...

[granite crow]

For reference, I love terrains that look like they are used and lived in. I just like having the option for both more

[crystal parrot]

You don't need to hide the original building, just hide the objects inside of it. The module has options for what kind objects you want to hide within the radius. There's also the edit environment objects module that attaches to single objects that can also be used to hide them

[granite crow]

Yes, I know

I know how to use the editor. The less you have to remove from the terrain, the better the performance

[crystal parrot]

And I don't think the furniture is part of the building models. That would make no sense

Eh, unless you're replacing an entire town, the performance hit isn't that significant

But if you are replacing an entire town... well, good luck haha

[granite crow]

This is exactly what I'm referring to. I do, however, understand how extremely frustrating it is to work on terrains for the current game.

[copper monolith]

Rather: Have the unfurnished as a base and perhaps have a module that furnishes houses in a given radius. Would also allow for some further randomization.