csla_iron_curtain

[plush thunder]

no

[broken bloom]

Dude just go outside and take a break before you get yourself banned.

[scenic cove]

May I DM?

[leaden kite]

retextured and re-touched.

go for it

[keen sparrow]

I don't think the majority is americans of the A3 community... atleast I remember a stronger European presence and a lot of germans.

[muted fox]

Dude just leave it. If we want to discuss it just DM. But it's not worth going at it

[twilit iris]

All the finest freshness is in the UAZ and the APCs

[leaden kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237077887117819906/854760209205297192/unknown.png Once again, M1 comparison. I think it's unfair to call it a 1:1 copy

[bold mulch]

and he's gone

[twilit iris]

very nice

[muted fox]

Over a video game especially

[hexed fractal]

lmao

[timid quartz]

is that CUP?

[leaden kite]

RHS

[timid quartz]

Which is which LMAO - so RHS and CSLA look similar?

[frigid gorge]

Alright, no more messages from me(

[fathom ocean]

They are not the same tank edit: im wrong, both M1a1

[jolly lantern]

Yeah the vehicles look mighty nice from what I saw a few hours ago. (And no.. I won't shit on EVERY vehicle in the CDLC just because a couple are arma 2 ports)
The tank didn't look like a port to me.
Though on the technical side there are some bugs to be fixed still (wheels get destroyed too quickly, helicopter rotors are invincible)

[frigid gorge]

Two bullets to destroy the wheels, noticed that too lol

[leaden kite]

left is RHS, right is CSLA

[broken bloom]

Honestly my issue is less with vehicle textures and such and more-so sounds and what not.

[muted fox]

The M1 from CSLA is the M1IP correct?

[frigid gorge]

Luckily those can be fixed quickly

[frigid gorge]

Yes

[timid quartz]

wouldn't be able to tell, which is kinda bad imo

[inner cloud]

when a paid DLC and free mod look almost identical lol

[twin crown]

hey dude, spin the abrams turret

[broken bloom]

The CSLA Abrams reuses the T-100's sound but it's not even set-up properly...

[leaden kite]

I'd say the textures on CSLA as well as the extra addon stuff on the tank do differentiate it enough, personally

[frigid gorge]

Right has hood on the back, as well as towing thing on the front, as well as an older configuration of the tank itself

And obv textures are very different

[inner cloud]

but in quality they are the same

[broken bloom]

And the T-72 reuses the Merkava's sounds even though the vanilla Leopard 2's audio is recorded from a real-life T-72...?

Strange choices...

[leaden kite]

I strongly disagree, at least in this case

[frigid gorge]

Arguable - quality RHS is definitely better

[twilit iris]

yea they are the same type of vehicles, but rhs and cup cant offer the historical configurations

[frigid gorge]

But again - they are different tanks

[feral trellis]

There’s a black hawk right?

[fathom ocean]

Wait is it really the M1IP in the comparison photo

[twilit iris]

which are important to some people

[frigid gorge]

No

[leaden kite]

blackhawk is kinda... meh.

[muted fox]

Yeah even though the M1IP and M1A1 look very similar there still very different tanks

[frigid gorge]

The photo is the M1A1

M1IP has proper small gun and everything that comes with it

[fathom ocean]

ok good thought i was going insane

[feral trellis]

Do you think the Blackhawk and mi8 are good?

[leaden kite]

these are both M1A1s
M1P has a dinky little gun, sec.

[frigid gorge]

Only issue I noticed was that the M1IP has a remotely controlled gun

[leaden kite]

they're both comparable with other mods, which isn't a good thing.

[frigid gorge]

Which I believe shouldn't be the case for the M1 and M1IP

[broken bloom]

The Blackhawk and Mi-17 uses the same sounds as each other.

[frigid gorge]

they had turn-out commander guns

[timid quartz]

didn't someone grab the Mi-17 and put the RHS/CUP skin on it in a video and it's the same?

[muted fox]

M1IP is a 105mm while M1A1 and further have the 120mm and separate armor packages

[feral trellis]

That’s disappointing

[frigid gorge]

They are the same, yeah

Both helis are by far the worst civs in the whole CDLC

[leaden kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237077887117819906/854767300757815316/unknown.png @muted fox M1IP

[feral trellis]

Why is the price so low compared to other cdlc?

[frigid gorge]

Way smaller size

(Would be my guess)

[finite pelican]

So there Different slightly so that makes them good ?

[timid quartz]

Because at $25 the rating prob would've been single digits, mostly based on the lower quality at 7.5gb

[leaden kite]

less content, arguably (?) less quality in some instances

[feral trellis]

Lmao

[frigid gorge]

No, them being different means there aren't any variants of this as good available anywhere

[muted fox]

Yeah I would compare this with the CUP dev build over the RHS tanks

[broken bloom]

Also I'm not sure why the M60 and M2's rate of fire is the same as a Negev...

[feral trellis]

I’m going to buy it later when I’m done working but I just want to get a feel on opinions

[leaden kite]

I don't have CUP. Our unit uses RHS+3CB so that's all I can offer

[inner cloud]

on what vehicle?

[keen sparrow]

Use the compat data on the workshop.

[timid quartz]

I am just sad I saw Mi-24s, Su-25s, MiG-29s over the years on their development pages and more and none are in the game :/

[broken bloom]

Handheld or any vehicle with an M2 / M60.

[frigid gorge]

"But they are in RHS, why add them"

[feral trellis]

I’m unfamiliar with that what is it?

[keen sparrow]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2503886780

[leaden kite]

@feral trellis #csla_iron_curtain message

[muted fox]

Well I recommend downloading the dev build and looking at it

[inner cloud]

well on helis it might have made sense for it to be fast if it was a GAU-21 but idk

that’s weird

[frigid gorge]

The M70 has 952 RPM

[fathom ocean]

i received a refund for CSLA so for those of you who feel the need, try it

[frigid gorge]

It should have 650 or smth

[feral trellis]

Oh I see thank you

[frigid gorge]

Way to much

[broken bloom]

irl the M60's rate of fire is between 550-650, in CSLA it's closer to 900.

[frigid gorge]

It's 952 exactly

[feral trellis]

Do you guys think this failed more than global mobilization?

[broken bloom]

Ah.

[frigid gorge]

50% to high

[rugged jolt]

But by keeping it you can find more stuff to complain about here. Dude, thats not a pro gamer move.

[inner cloud]

yikes

[frigid gorge]

It's def nowhere as good as GM, but GM is the highest possible standard, so..

[twin grotto]

https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/33934/ss_0fa9d07da6d3ef942f9ddd9cf91a4293a92a9120.1920x1080.jpg?t=1521639609

[fathom ocean]

i put my money where my mouth is

[twin grotto]

is this the same model?

[fathom ocean]

or the opposite im not sure

[leaden kite]

GloMo never failled, but I would say it's definitely lower in quality. But as t00t said, GM was on kind of a different level to begin with

[feral trellis]

That’s a good thought

[timid quartz]

That is the Arma 2 MLRS that is in the new dlc too now right?

[leaden kite]

I'll spawn it for you

[scenic cove]

What T00T said, both the CDLC and its Compatibility Data are only 7.5 GB in download size each versus a whopping 25+ GB each for GM and SOGPF

[feral trellis]

I think prairie fire is the top

[twin grotto]

o7

[frigid gorge]

Yes, but doesn't look like that

[timid quartz]

I would be interested in seeing The A2 one vs the CSLA

[frigid gorge]

A relatively sizeable model change and texture improvements

[feral trellis]

So there is an Abrams?

[finite pelican]

THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SCENE

[leaden kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237077887117819906/854768570905919518/unknown.png I would rate this perfectly suitable

[frigid gorge]

Two - M1IP and M1A1

[keen sparrow]

I'd say only for mp stuff, anything else realy makes GM on the to I'd say.

[timid quartz]

isn't that the same vehicle?

[leaden kite]

#csla_iron_curtain message in case you missed it

[finite pelican]

so you agree but dont agree

[feral trellis]

I have all the dlc but contact and now iron curtain

[twin grotto]

interesting

[frigid gorge]

I don't know what you're talking about, I think i'ts best I don't respond to you

[leaden kite]

It's the same IRL vehicle, but I highly doubt this is the same model. And if it is, it's improved to the point where I can't tell. Lots of little things added

[broken bloom]

GM is too good for RV4, I hope BI takes notes for Arma 4 / Enfusion.

[frigid gorge]

Same vehicle, yes

[timid quartz]

I will not be doing one, I don't think BI nor I would benefit from my blunt opinion

I loved GM, Contact and SOGPF

[leaden kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237077887117819906/854768979692093480/unknown.png here's a rear shot to compare to the picture posted before

[feral trellis]

This is the most activity I’ve seen in this server

[tranquil epoch]

They wont, BI could care less about their community

[timid quartz]

I cannot make a video on CSLA in it's current state without probably burning some bridges

[frigid gorge]

Every CDLC release does that)

[feral trellis]

Lol

[leaden kite]

I think it's still fair to raise awareness. But I would definitely appreciate it if you would apply more nuance than 90% of the steam reviews. You can go in with negative notions, but at least give it a fair shot

[uneven cobalt]

I was looking forward to this all day and week. The map is great, everything is just CUP in worse quality. Bohemia should makethis free

[thorny walrus]

Um no

The map alone is worth the $10

[frigid gorge]

I really wonder if people have some secret version of CUP that I've never seen

[thorny walrus]

Right

[scenic cove]

This is pretty much how to think about whether or not this CDLC is for you at this point

[leaden kite]

think people are generally referring to the dev build (?)

[twilit iris]

People just see CUP through rose colored glasses when comparing it to other stuff

[thorny walrus]

Theyre comparing models in low quality😂

[ripe goblet]

GM+CSLA seeeeeeeems nice

[thorny walrus]

"They look the same!"

[timid quartz]

if this map is worth $10, the Chernarus 2020 map in CUP is worth $20 or Cham made by Temppa

[scenic cove]

This is Arma, a LOT of things are being seen through rose-colored glasses 🤣

[frigid gorge]

DEV build doesn't change every asset, I only have the dev build

[uneven cobalt]

heavy case of fanboyism

[tranquil epoch]

Its not that, its just youre blinded by those CSLA studio financial deposits into your bank account to think objectively

[thorny walrus]

Oh yes the ported map is worth $20

[leaden kite]

chernarus 2020 has 1/8th of the map missing (top right). It also doesn't come furnished.

[keen sparrow]

Chernarus 2020 isn't that, it is a rework.

[thorny walrus]

Of an existing map

[uneven cobalt]

i have GM and I love it with all my heart, SOGPF also, but this is just a cashgrab from fucking arma2

[thorny walrus]

That is a hell of alot easier than making one from scratch

[fickle narwhal]

Does Cham come with a few dozen new objects?

[frigid gorge]

Also why use CUPs Chernarus 2020 for 600 MBs

When you can use "Livonian building for cup" for 1 MB

Are there any other changes?

[leaden kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237077887117819906/854770005585821716/unknown.png masterful camera clippage for more content viewage

[keen sparrow]

The map itself IIRC mostly.

[timid quartz]

It uses GM stuff - however as it stands now, you cannot even spawn any new (from the CSLA cdlc) buildings bar a few military things from Arma 2 because "reduce clutter" per a dev

[scenic cove]

iirc Chernarus 2020 is 'take advantage of A3-specific engine changes' while the 'original' Chernarus in CUP Terrains - Maps didn't and couldn't without breaking mission compatibility

[leaden kite]

To be clear, I didn't place this, this comes with the map

[leaden kite]

they did say they would add it based on feedback, to be fair

[frigid gorge]

CSLA uses GM on the map? Or did you mean smth else

[timid quartz]

No, Cham does

[simple quiver]

chernarus 2020 has a lot of new areas, its not just some replaced houses

[frigid gorge]

Alright ,missunderstood

[frigid gorge]

Didn't know, thanks for clarifying

[leaden kite]

though, again, it does have 1/8th of the map missing, which is kinda

[fickle narwhal]

So it doesn't come with dozens of new objects then. You can't spawn them in editor but you can script them in. And hopefully they'll change that

[thorny walrus]

Bro the bunker in the menu is higher quality than any of the shit ive seen CUP produce

[timid quartz]

Anyway, im off for now, just wish BI/CSLA would've listened to the testers more tbh

[ripe goblet]

Chernarus 2020 was extended to DayZ SA's chernarus some monthes ago

[leaden kite]

have a good one, sherm

[fickle narwhal]

They did

[timid quartz]

They didn't

[simple quiver]

the one in dev is updated, and mostly full by now

[tranquil epoch]

BI never listens to their community. How is this not understood by now?

[simple quiver]

will be releasing sometime soon

[leaden kite]

o. I wasn't aware. Looking forward to it!

[keen sparrow]

Starts making a list

[fickle narwhal]

They absolutely did hence why my complaints were fixed

[frigid gorge]

I agree with their decision to not clutter the editor, but I think some of the things should've been made spawnable

[scenic cove]

If BI 'listened to the community' A3 would never have been released in the first place...

[frigid gorge]

Definitely better than what ever the object screen with PF loaded is..

[twilit iris]

I do commend GM and CSLA for the emblem system, makes the vehicles cross compatible by default

[frigid gorge]

But they should've found a middle ground, rather than go from one extreme to the other

[leaden kite]

emblem system? could you elaborate?

[timid quartz]

CSLA devs thought the testers were toxic, we warned them of "toxic" reviews, guess like Dedmen said "Told you so"

[scenic cove]

Based on what devs and the CEO have said... no, no it would not have.

[frigid gorge]

I'd ignore him Chortles, he's an actual troll

[twilit iris]

In the editor you can change out the vehicle markings, GM has CSLA markings, and CSLA has east German markings

[frigid gorge]

99*))

[leaden kite]

huh... I'll check this out. TIL.

[twilit iris]

Double click on the vics in the editor, theyre both all the way at the bottom of the list of options, otherwise GM has a vehicle styler in zeus

[fickle narwhal]

They listened. Everything I reported and have rechecked has been fixed so far

[scenic cove]

I say 'it would not have' because the people you had in mind wanted A2 🤷

[rugged jolt]

Bruh, CSLA is higher quality than anything RHS ever produced.

[leaden kite]

yeah, they're kinda

[bold mulch]

[keen sparrow]

Tbh, I would have felt the same in one or two situations... IIRC one or two were a bit, well not nice, but that is debatable. But they did fix stuff and listend to us mostly.

[broken bloom]

I'm hoping a lot of the current issues for CSLA can be fixed soon, I do want it to succeed.

[leaden kite]

copy, shall try now

[keen sparrow]

Not many I think, the UAZ and?

[bold mulch]

are you the banned guy on a second account?

[frigid gorge]

RHS is A2 ports

[uneven cobalt]

no

yes

[keen sparrow]

Well when it released. IIRC models where replaced etc.

[frigid gorge]

Incredibly improved and higher quality ports

[uneven cobalt]

imean

[leaden kite]

oh wow, that's awesome

[frigid gorge]

That you can't distinguish and see the difference from A2

[rugged jolt]

~~produced ~~copied

[uneven cobalt]

there were arma 2 ports but they got reworked and upgraded

[sharp root]

can anyone tell me where to find the start parameters for the dlc?

[frigid gorge]

But 1/3-1/4 is still A2 ports I believe

[keen sparrow]

I only know of the UAZ any maybe the blackhawk but not sure.

[frigid gorge]

Not only that

They added a ridiculous amount of function

That exists literally nowhere else

[fading snow]

We were being veeeeery civil, constructive and objective. Just giving feedback and kinda predicted what the Steam reviews would be like... we predicted right mostly

[frigid gorge]

Mi-8, Mi-24, T-80, UAZ, BTR-60, and so on

[broken bloom]

I didn't know Arma 2 had a T-80.

This is news to me. 😄

[frigid gorge]

RHS T-80 is from Arma 2s RHS mod, no?

Long range lights, wheel break system for helis, decals, openeble windows, their own damage models, and so on

[visual leaf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruK6fbQRw4c

Iron Curtain first look Video... The first one out there... In German

[broken bloom]

Eh, RHS is a free mod. You don't have to pay for it. CSLA is a paid product.

[frigid gorge]

Nobody questioning or talking about that

[bold mulch]

then why do you write about a mod on a csla channel?

[frosty grove]

Long range lights, wheel break system for helis, decals, openeble windows, their own damage models
how is this a ridiculous amount of new functions never seen before lmao

[broken bloom]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[leaden kite]

I do agree that being a paid product puts you on a different level, and I do agree with a fair amount of the criticism. But not all.

[frigid gorge]

"and so on"

[bold mulch]

if you're not comparing then you're spamming

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[frigid gorge]

This ^

[bold mulch]

yeah indeed you are

[broken bloom]

And reusing their own models from Arma 2 RHS mod isn't the same thing as reusing models from Arma 2 itself.

[frigid gorge]

I'll just load DHI, RHS, and some cold war M16 mod with CSLA - and all of the issues are done while keeping all of the good parts of CSLA

Difference is in the products "perspective" I guess - people want the whole CSLA to be godtier, while I only care for the good parts

[leaden kite]

do you have any proof of this? Because that's a bit of a bold claim. but outside of that, I do not believe they can't do that, either. Though I must say it does put a bit of a damper on things.

[frigid gorge]

Average ArmA player ^ kek

[errant orbit]

It's -mod=csla

[broken bloom]

You can find the Arma 2 RHS's mod page and see what assets they reused for yourself.

[leaden kite]

no offense but the onus is not on me to provide proof for a claim someone else made.

I did compare with both RHS and 3CB and posted pictures here and concluded that most of the things are better quality (vehicles). Most. Not all.

[jolly lantern]

moderators can be pinged with @veteran_moderator

[upper galleon]

People seem to forget that there were alot of reused assets in SOG:PF aswell (mainly buildings) from both A2 and A3 vanilla, and Apex. Nobody complained then

[fickle narwhal]

Yes they did

[uneven cobalt]

guys can we calm down and talk like grownups?

[frigid gorge]

When I bring this up I get called a troll and hater

I don't mind reused assets

I mind the double-standard

[broken bloom]

Okay?

[frigid gorge]

Also if it's reused well - it's fine

[bold mulch]

there is a difference between reusing stuff as a remaster or remake than a simple refurbish making the stuff still looking the same

[jolly lantern]

Wat? what did he do?

[frigid gorge]

I can ctrl+F some messages I guess ,sec

[leaden kite]

let's just.. return to the topic at hand

[upper galleon]

Did they actually? I hardly saw anything but praise for that Cdlc hence my surprised Pikachu face

Criticism is rarely met well here or in the subreddit so honestly after the first couple of guys get piled on everyone else walks away because its just not worth the effort.

[keen sparrow]

Depends on what type of criticism... some is fact some is not.

[upper galleon]

I see zero reason in doing anything but reviewing stuff on Steam nowadays, I have had enough of the abuse from the Arma community generally at this point.

[frigid gorge]

Not intending to waste your time, only @'d you since you where already here giving warnings to somebody else too

[fickle narwhal]

Yeah. Saw plenty. Mostly on the GM discord

[jolly lantern]

CSLA are not BI.
BI listened to the testers and postponed the CDLC for quite a while.

[leaden kite]

That's fair tbh. Can't blame you.

[rugged jolt]

They will add you meant?

[frigid gorge]

What? RHS has all those functions already. Wasn't talking about CSLA if you thought that, sry

[visual leaf]

I am just eating popcorn watching this derailing faster than an "end of the world" movie 😆

[ornate sorrel]

When I highlighted my doubts about this CDLC's models I was shouted down. It's normal that devs don't want to see flaws in their work. But now I see that I'm not the only one with the same kind of criticisms

[frigid gorge]

Depending on which models, some are most definitely questionable at best

Through I doubt a model can be changed/replaced that easily, so it's likely they are here to stay

[timid quartz]

Reviews refreshed on Steam..

[leaden kite]

it's more of a matter of making it than replacing it

[waxen oracle]

Wouldn't it in some part be BIs job to ensure the quality of the DLC they publish? Because it seems the delay did not solve the biggest issues.

[rotund musk]

I'm wondering, who chose the release date? Was it ČSLA devs, or did BI have any say in the matter?

[bold mulch]

I don't think BI has direct "insights" to the cDLCs

just reports, as in corpo

[keen sparrow]

Yeah thought about that too, currently writing something regarding that, lets hope it gets picked up by them if I've sended it.

[bold mulch]

Dedmen wrote that they postponed publishing of CSLA just because of testers feedback, not what devs have said

[frigid gorge]

What was the biggest issue (that didn't get solved)?

From pictures it looked like there was a lot of improvements on some quality

[jolly lantern]

Yes I guess so. I don't know whats going on there.

[uneven cobalt]

I lke the vehicle models. But my god after playing SOGPF the sounds are just plain bad

[manic steppe]

Well said question mate genuinely interested to know

[jolly lantern]

Both working together

[leaden kite]

dedmen, how would you rate your chat experience today

[manic steppe]

His facial expression is in his name lol

[fading snow]

10/10 would always ban again

[jolly lantern]

Well for one, helicopters mowing down whole forest without getting any damage was reported in the closed beta (by player in my unit, for all helicopter types)
but the issue is still there now.
How "big" that issue is VERY subjective. Every issue actually. Different people think of different things as important.

[frigid gorge]

I c. Well, seeing the helicopters quality as a whole - it has a long list of things that could be improved

atleast imo

[manic steppe]

Couldn't BI I.e. maybe yourself help them fix it? If it's a matter of a simply cfg error or something like that related

[leaden kite]

in the severity vs frequency chart, that would at the very least be a medium issue, to be fair

[fading snow]

Yeah I was really surprised to see that "bug" still existing after what... 8 months? Although my ticket was closed as "fixed"

[manic steppe]

Re: rotor blade bug

[bold mulch]

What is Bohemia's involvement?
Bohemia provides continuous feedback to the developers, assists with the Quality Assurance (testing) process, and offers legal, mastering, publishing, and promotional support.

[manic steppe]

If its taken them 8 months to not fix a bug what does that mean for new bugs

[timid quartz]

Testers were "toxic"

[bold mulch]

who could we ask about how does the support actually look?

[jolly lantern]

Community Manager is handling community things. Nillers or LeClair

[manic steppe]

I think maybe for future cdlc bohemia themselves play the game and then determine yep it's ready for release

[fading snow]

Devs of CDLC projects maybe

[frigid gorge]

I hope that they'll listen and take feedback like the GM team in the future, both the last CDLCs definitely could learn that from GM

[bold mulch]

I wrote a message already, just have to compare both answers

[jolly lantern]

They probably can't say much cuz NDA

[frigid gorge]

Since they took feedback better than any place I can think of

[fading snow]

hm probably

[waxen oracle]

To start with, there's quite a few bugs in there that you'd think would have been found like the selection of the M16A2 Carbine with the M203 to CTD for example. Then and this has already been brought up a lot and is my opinion on it, but a DLC even made by a third party group that's been years in development should not be using this many ported assets for the majority of the uniforms, weapons and vehicles. A handful of good quality original assets and a high quality map does not make up for that in my eyes as a paid product.

[frigid gorge]

Yeah the 203 crash is unacceptable lmao. It crashes without even loading SOG through too

[waxen oracle]

That doesn't make it much better

[frigid gorge]

Indeed

[scenic cove]

If you're talking about Virtual Arsenal, I didn't get that CTD

[midnight briar]

one thing I'm wondering, how different are some of the vehicle assets from the ones the CSLA made for the A2 mod back in 2010

[frigid gorge]

I did, saw atleast 3 more people here too

and two of my friends got it

so 6 people total I know of for sure

There are some other issues that are so ??? how they made it in. The 952 RPM M60 for example, 203 crash, 2 shots to kill a wheel, etc

[leaden kite]

A handful of good quality original assets and a high quality map does not make up for that in my eyes as a paid product.
I can get behind this to some extent, though I do believe that between having none of the ported content and having the ported content on top of it, I'd choose the latter.

[waxen oracle]

But that doesn't change that it should NOT have been published in this state.

[timid quartz]

Testers said this

[grave rock]

Can confirm the M203 CTD, Arsenal, Editor and I assume it's why the showcase also CTDed the game. Both with SOG:PF loaded and nothing but CSLA loaded.

[scenic cove]

Which is why it got pushed back almost a year, as Dedmen said...

[frigid gorge]

Well, testers said this over a year ago I assume? They had a year to fix it, and still didn't

[waxen oracle]

And the Devs didn't fix it

[fickle narwhal]

8 months ago right?

[leaden kite]

That I do agree with. I think there are major flaws that should have been taken care of. I don't agree with the steam reviews in their entirety, but I do think it is mixed at best, especially if we ignore the map.

[frigid gorge]

Which is very disappointing tbh

[timid quartz]

We never got a 2nd test so yeah lmao

[earnest crow]

Why and how did the dlc become so bad?

[jolly lantern]

Testers also requested a second beta after the issues are fixed.
But didn't get that, though that was BI's decision, on the other hand though.. CSLA team said they fixed all the things and are ready for release..
Though then again.. they also said that before the first closed beta

[timid quartz]

Declared fixed

[frigid gorge]

Oof on BI, but I doubt we can know their reasons & ways

[fickle narwhal]

Time probably

[frigid gorge]

Still, saying something is fixed when it isn't is yuk

[timid quartz]

'I read some of the comments last night about "toxicity" -- Everyone here just wants the best for BI, the CSLA devs and the A3 community as a whole. Unlike the people here, the "masses" aren't going to be too kind and hold back if they find anything they don't like.'

From Oct 2020 from me

[frigid gorge]

I doubt it's time, they delayed it by a year, and just released SOGPF, probably could delay more. Atleast makes sense

[fickle narwhal]

Maybe they couldn't delay it because of something else coming up

[timid quartz]

BI and CSLA need to own up this is a bad release and not blame anything else but themselves

[jolly lantern]

Maybe it was fixed and indeed tested. But after that something went wrong that broke it again, or reverted the fix. And it wasn't tested again

[fickle narwhal]

Was going to say that. Have had that happen many times to me

[tranquil epoch]

"Toxicity" is any form of against the grain criticism by Western cultures current standards. So what do you expect? CSLA Studios has been working on this for over 10 years basically, and they release this? Its just to criticize them.

[frigid gorge]

True, but something as big as selecting a weapon crashing the game is hard to miss @ dedmen

[mortal ice]

As a sidenote I'd like to mention that I personally cant repro the treecutting heli bug, but I also havent tried following the exact repro steps yet

[earnest crow]

For 10 years??

[tranquil epoch]

CSLA has been a thing since A2...

[jolly lantern]

just take heli, fly into tree. Atleast I think thats all @fading snow

[timid quartz]

I just did

[mortal ice]

Yeah I tried that and the heli died just fine for me (after the normal arma behaviour of taking down 1-3 trees with normal collision)

[earnest crow]

How long have they been officially working on the CSLA cdlc?

[timid quartz]

I and others warned them of the current review situation

[fickle narwhal]

Since way before that

[keen sparrow]

Earlier IIRC.... ofp, but the Arma 3 version I think only started work as A3 released or later.

[tranquil epoch]

Over 4 years I think. Which was essentially how long PF was in dev lol.

[jolly lantern]

The major problem was announcing CSLA before the beta. It puts both BI and CSLA team on constant pressure not to push the release further out

GM had no beta, CSLA had the beta too late because the DLC was though to be done and BI trusted the developers without verifying by themselves, SOGPF did it exactly right.

BI is learning from mistakes.

[frigid gorge]

tbh - I prefer the helis being invincible to dying to a single tree-branch. RHS did the same with their A-10 and Su-25, since I doubt there is a way to make it "reasonably tanky"

So if it's either that or instadeath by bushes - former is better

[jolly lantern]

yeah i agree. But.. mowing down a whole forest by just flying into the trees? no

[tranquil epoch]

BI and CSLA not listening is endemic to BI and modders.

[frigid gorge]

Yeah, again, best of both worlds if it's possible would be better

But idk if it is

[uneven cobalt]

I mean, its gonna be a hell of a job, but this can be still made great.

[jolly lantern]

I'm not worried. I assume most bugs will be taken care off quickly and pushed as a hotfix.

[tranquil epoch]

I agree but I seriously doubt CSLA studios has any plans to continue dev.

[frigid gorge]

How so?

[shy ibex]

i dont see the connection... To me (im not in any of this) it looks like BI trusted the assessment of the cDLC team, and the cDLC team has a different definition of "done and tested" than many other people

[jolly lantern]

Problem is, you already got the negative reviews, people probably won't notice the fixes as they've already finished with the CDLC

[frigid gorge]

They have stated they plan to do that

[upper galleon]

My concern is this was ward off other devs/modders looking to touch the time period

[scenic cove]

looks at GM

[earnest crow]

I still haven't bought the dlc yet. Reading the reviews here. Repetitively, most people are saying it's 'an Arma 2 port'. 4 years seems to be too long for a studio to create it

[frigid gorge]

This ^

GM example 101

And GM had even less issues

[upper galleon]

They created channels for wishlist etc, ofc they're going to keep developing

[frigid gorge]

alot less

[jolly lantern]

Why would anyone do that.
Wouldn't modders want to do it even more now? now that they already have a fitting terrain, and content where they can say "look this is better, and also extends the universe further"

[earnest crow]

Red hammer studios and CUP seems to have done a better work than the csla studio (not criticism, just comparison)

[inner cloud]

yup

[waxen oracle]

That is a fact

[frigid gorge]

RHS has done better mod than any CDLC ever will

They have been doing it since.. OPF? Arma 1?

[visual leaf]

SOG set the bar too high for any CDLC after it! If CSLA was released before SOG its flaws and "just a mod" feeling would have been far less noticeable.

[waxen oracle]

GM gets pretty close quality wise

[frigid gorge]

Not sure, but I think almost 20 years, if not 20 already

[inner cloud]

and even if a CDLC is somehow better the CDLC is paid

[frigid gorge]

True, very close - but not quantity

[earnest crow]

I completely agree... sog did set the bar too high

[frigid gorge]

Many mods come close to RHS with quality, some even surpass, but quality and quantity is basically never

[inner cloud]

sog is not this heaven sent DLC that everyone keeps saying though

[vestal prawn]

While CTDs in a DLC are indeed inacceptable, the large number of ported models and mid-quality assets should come as no surprise to anyone. It was obvious when the first screenshots surfaced and hasn’t changed significantly since then.

[waxen oracle]

True but GM's also only been out since 2019 compared to RHS

[upper galleon]

GM set that bar imo.

[ornate sorrel]

It is a criticism and is right to criticize. It's the way to improve. There's difference between a healthy criticism and just complaint without reason

[frigid gorge]

#csla_iron_curtain message

[frigid gorge]

GM set the bar high, not pF

[inner cloud]

i remember the first thing i saw people say when this dlc was revealed was “isnt that the CUP insert vehicle”

[wind lintel]

GM wasn't 80% assets that CUP, Project Opfor or 3CB factions had already ported in higher quality. I legitimately feel cheated. I bought GM at release and thought Hey this looks good and is pretty wonky but once it gets some mod compatabilities and updates I'll use it. I don't think that this time. I'm not trying to start a flame-war here, but I am legitimately curious as to how Bohemia aproved this.

[fickle narwhal]

So has CSLA

[earnest crow]

Okay.. if its healthy criticism... then I am criticising

[visual leaf]

But it is on par and even better than most official DLCs, Only Apex perhaps but still all the game modes, coop and UI elements that SOG bring are miles ahead of any other DLC/CDLC

[frigid gorge]

I doubt as actively

But I don't know, so won't comment more that doubts

[earnest crow]

How big is the Csla studio? In terms of No. Of employees

[inner cloud]

SOG is just far better than unsung that’s why it’s so loved

[frigid gorge]

6-8 somebody said

[keen sparrow]

6-8 IIRC, could be more or less.

[inner cloud]

since there hasn’t been anything good or new for vietnam games in years

[frigid gorge]

(I thought it was only 3 for some reason)

[shy ibex]

the cDLC Team decides on what it does. BI gives a green light. At the end of the day, the cDLC team has all the risk (monetary)

[keen sparrow]

(Maybe because GM originally had only 3)

[frigid gorge]

2, afaik

[fickle narwhal]

No 3 originally

[finite pelican]

With the bugs and texture quality issues of some uniforms it disappointing to say the least

[keen sparrow]

Nope, Maverick (Who also worked on it) IIRC was also onbord but left because of live issues IIRC.

[waxen oracle]

Even though some of SOG's assets were a bit on the lower quality end the DLC as a whole was a very well rounded experience with extreme attention to detail and a fun, and respectful to the history campaign/missions

[inner cloud]

every CDLC missions so far seem very arcadey

[earnest crow]

After all,The creator was a former lead member in the unsung mod

[waxen oracle]

Not to mention JSRS built in for the eargasmic gun sounds

Honestly SOG to me is the best DLC for Arma since Operation Arrowhead.

[visual leaf]

I strongly believe that if BI approved this release this early and in this state then there must be a good reason for it... since they probably knew by now the kind of reviews it would get...

[frigid gorge]

"Extreme attention to detail" is just a big no, sorry

[waxen oracle]

When I refer to extreme attention to detail I am not referring to the models

[tranquil epoch]

I was thinking that this could be due to BI telling CSLA studios that A4 is close, and if they awant their product to actually ever be relased and have a life span in A3, they need to push it out now.

[frigid gorge]

Through we might be referring to different things

[frigid gorge]

Yeah, figured)

[inner cloud]

SOG<Apex

[west knot]

The CDLC is such a joke. Don't buy.

[frigid gorge]

Lol

no

[visual leaf]

Yeah, some cash grab is better than no cash grab... since after A4 is announced pretty much everyone will start saving for it....

[west knot]

I refunded it after 30 mins xd

[frigid gorge]

SOG isn't great, but it's def better than Apex

[uneven cobalt]

Thats an interesting idea, maybe not Arma4 but something more reforged.

[frigid gorge]

Any CDLC is better than Apex

[inner cloud]

Tanoa and old man is awesome

[frigid gorge]

Tanoa aka 0.1 frames

[tranquil epoch]

Are you seriously saying SOG isnt "great"?? How?

[inner cloud]

shit pc moment

[uneven cobalt]

tanoa aint that bad

[earnest crow]

Obviously... Apex is done by the 1000s of employees at BI. SOG is done by a smaller studio

[frigid gorge]

A 1k person community with a unanimous agreement moment

[waxen oracle]

Even God PCs shit bricks in Georgetown man

[vestal prawn]

On a side note: GM has no ported models at all. They have some stuff that was done before in ArmA (BMP, BRDM, UAZ) but all the models are new ones, not ports.

[visual leaf]

In terms of content no other DLC can compete with Apex... it is just statistics backing that claim up

[timid quartz]

1000s?

[inner cloud]

not 1000’s lol

[uneven cobalt]

i had missions where i became sick after having so low fps for so long 😄

[earnest crow]

About a 1000 ma bad

[frigid gorge]

Maybe referring to different count of content, but I don't know what Apex has added?

Some guns, some vics, and a map

Though I might be missing things

[keen sparrow]

MP campaign

[inner jackal]

Bohemia using all those abducted by the Contact awiens I guess 😉

[west knot]

GM was okay to good, there wasn't any bar set yet.
SOG was IMO good, even though no SP campaign. But the MP missions with close friends was the best time I have had in Arma after 3500hrs in this game.

This DLC is a okay mod that you have to pay 11-15€s for. AND NEARLY EVERYTHING IS FROM ARMA 2.

And I've heard that the campaign is really bad as well.

[visual leaf]

If you don't even know what it adds how can you say that "it is the worst DLC"?

[frigid gorge]

Thats what I mean by different content, since I don't care for campaigns/missions

[frigid gorge]

I didn't say it's the worst DLC

I said it comes nowhere close to any of the 3 CDLCs

[timid quartz]

Campaign that doesnt exist in CSLA

[west knot]

nvm

not a campaign

[waxen oracle]

Can we just let the GM devs fix this thing xD

[west knot]

its just 5 SP missions

Its a bad cashgrab

[frigid gorge]

I saw 10 missions

[west knot]

The ProTec looks so bad. CUP one is way better.

[frigid gorge]

Are 5 of them not "full fledged missions"?

[earnest crow]

BI jumping in would do a better job

[west knot]

Don't think you can save it.

[timid quartz]

I wonder if the CSLA devs still think the testers were "toxic"

[waxen oracle]

I disagree but I wouldn't mind that solution either

[west knot]

Kinda have to remake the whole mod.

[finite pelican]

Apparently not thats what I heard

[earnest crow]

When I meant better job.. I meant better then what csla studio had put out, not gm studio

[west knot]

16% positive reviews on steam lol

[sour ginkgo]

Man, this bad reviews count is rising pretty quick - is it really THAT bad

[waxen oracle]

Yes

[bold mulch]

yes

[fathom ocean]

unfortunately, yes

[frigid gorge]

no

[west knot]

yes it is

[bold mulch]

you won't have any fun and entertainment from the whole mod - you have to choose on of its part and forget about others

[west knot]

Most of the stuff is ported from Arma 2 and on free mod level of quality.

[frigid gorge]

It is as bad as you want it to be, download the free version and decide yourself instead of listening to reviews

[bold mulch]

shit it's so bad I'm refering to it as a mod mistakenly

[waxen oracle]

lol

[frigid gorge]

Like people do to GM and PF?

roles of the toung better tbh

"Mod" as a word vs 4 awkward letters

[visual leaf]

I would be willing to support this CDLC if BI stated that all the ported A2 content (Including buildings of course) would make it into Vanilla in one year just like they did with the Art of War DLC. That would seem fair and my investment would be aiding the whole community and not just the very small player base that bought the CDLC. Besides the A2 ported content would probably no greater than 4 GB

[sour ginkgo]

I hear the map is great

[bold mulch]

it is okay

[uneven cobalt]

It is

[frigid gorge]

It is non-arguably their strongest point

[sour ginkgo]

Yeah

[frigid gorge]

That is where they put the most love into

[west knot]

Looks cool but most assets are from arma 2

[west knot]

their only point xd

[bold mulch]

so you can buy the cdlc and force yourself to think you bought a great map

[uneven cobalt]

yes

[frigid gorge]

According to you, not according to all

[uneven cobalt]

also

[west knot]

Even assets that were remade for Livonia are straight Arma 2 quality.

[earnest crow]

I really hoped that the next creator dlc would be something like dessert conflict, like arrow head but with a touch of futuristic gear.(like the USP gear n all) but instead we got this... smh. Hope the next is better

[sour ginkgo]

Wouldn't be the first

[waxen oracle]

Honestly, don't buy it and if you want to use the map or other assets for screenshot art just use the free version

[uneven cobalt]

i love the civilian cars and their interiors. Shame they didnt animate it properly like GM and SOGPF did

[bold mulch]

I was about to refund the cdlc but i thought hey, I can make some cool screenshots on it with GM stuff 😄

[frigid gorge]

"SOGPF" "civilian cars"

[upper galleon]

right? livonia comes to mind - looks great, runs like a burning dumpster

[west knot]

I lowkey hope somebody makes a free faction mod remaking the DLC assets with free CUP version xd

[echo sluice]

The only car I need is the da baby car

[frigid gorge]

Please show those well animated civilian cars from SOGPF ))

[uneven cobalt]

my bad, for SOGPF i meant the jeeps and trucks

[frigid gorge]

The animations are definitely missing in CLSA

[upper galleon]

no honda civic 1999 paid mod dlc? why even bother...

[west knot]

military sim
yO tHiS cIvViE cAr LoOkIn FiNe MaN

[frigid gorge]

Luckely, that is one of the things that can be fixed

[frigid gorge]

What USA thought about going to war against Honda's and Toyotas)))

[uneven cobalt]

hey i like my old ass easter block cars thank you very much, i remember my grandfaters trabant to this day

[dim wasp]

the CSLA CDLC breaks the main screen, all tiles are gone https://prnt.sc/15mkpdc

[sour ginkgo]

Actually, I bought GM for the map, because reviews were rather mixed. But then I found that it's not bad at all and that I like it a lot. So I wonder ...

[frigid gorge]

Doesn't "break", thats on purpose

[dim wasp]

that's dumb AF, fix it please

[frigid gorge]

Don't like it, but it doesn't remove any functions

[bold mulch]

its intentional

[inner cloud]

even some mods do that

[frigid gorge]

Still prefer the regular screen

[bold mulch]

why would you have those boxes in the center

[dim wasp]

with SOG it's different, it gets a whole different vibe. but this is just dumb

[bold mulch]

who uses the boxes anyway?

[dim wasp]

we use the tiles for quick access to our servers and now we can't

[frigid gorge]

A whole different wibe while breaking many options, slowing down everything, and not supporting mods

[west knot]

Why though, there is no special menu or so, its just blank.

[frigid gorge]

This is the prime example of "Bash CSLA, PF is good through"

[inner cloud]

how does it break mod

[dim wasp]

I agree with that too, but at least it's more than just to see some pretty background picture

[bold mulch]

you can see how cool is the map even before accessing it

[frigid gorge]

Ace arsenal isn't accessible

[west knot]

No its just a low effort DLC my friend.

[frigid gorge]

And low cost

[echo sluice]

Perhaps we should criticize how CDLC get handled period. Whether you like the content or not, splitting Arma like this isn’t good

[normal coral]

Alright you know what

[west knot]

Half the cost but a fith of quality.

Not even custom voices

[normal coral]

This entire conversation is fucking pointless

[bold mulch]

"low" it's few bucks cheaper comparing to other cdlcs

[frigid gorge]

Half the price

I'd say that is more than few bucks

[normal coral]

SOG PF has an excessive amount of A2 assets, but no one is complaining about that! GM had zero but people still cried "paid mods paid mods!"

[west knot]

But compared to free mods its a lot.

[dim wasp]

I just want the home screen fixed tbh,

[visual leaf]

On the Steam Discussion section: "BI give us more reasons to BUY the CSLA IRON COURTAIN CDLC!" https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/3069747601654675626/

[frigid gorge]

Unlike PF through - CSLA and GM don't have anything equivalent that can be used instead of them

[frigid gorge]

Mentioning that gets you attacked, be careful

[bold mulch]

so it's cheaper to make us like the garbage work we received?

[inner cloud]

because it’s vietnam

[west knot]

I did )) The city parts of the map look horrid. But jungle is cool.

[frigid gorge]

Wouldn't call it garbage work

[bold mulch]

did you even read the SOGPF channel or discord?

[normal coral]

You know, Chernarus in a2 is based on Czechoslovakia.

[bold mulch]

i suppose not if you state such opinion

[normal coral]

Well, people did complain

But not this fucking level

[bold mulch]

indeed this level

you just ignore it

[frigid gorge]

No

[upper galleon]

a few hours later and it looks I wasn't alone to complain about the asset origin.

[bold mulch]

yes

[normal coral]

Every second since CSLA released it has been an excessive torrent of "paid mods paid mods a2 reeeee"

[frigid gorge]

They where sileneced and thrown away almost instantly

[bold mulch]

no they weren't

[normal coral]

SOGPF I saw, some like 5-10 people harp on that while hundreds more were 'woooow vietnam so cool ahhahha"

[west knot]

What did they write there?

[frigid gorge]

I doubt you've made a mod or model ever, so it's easy to call CSLA "garbage work", even through a lot of the quality is very high, and definitely had alot of effort put into it

[normal coral]

CSLA, I see almost nothing but complains complains complains

[bold mulch]

then you doubt wrong

[normal coral]

Can't we just appreciate the developers, for their hard work?

[bold mulch]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[frigid gorge]

If in your opinion some bad things make everything bad - then we just have different views, so nothing more can be said

[bold mulch]

also you can keep the ad personam for yourself

[west knot]

The problem in SOGPF was only in the city parts of the map as far as I know. But this DLC is like 80% Arma 2.

[upper galleon]

16% approval on steam. 'nuff said

[bold mulch]

if they give that for free then we could

[fickle narwhal]

Do any of the CDLCs have that? The Vietnames don't speak Vietnames in SOGPF. Do the Germans in GM speak German?

[normal coral]

They do actually

[keen sparrow]

Yes, Germans speak German.

[frigid gorge]

Not meant as an insult, if that is what you meant

[normal coral]

GM devs recorded every line

[copper monolith]

Yes, a total of 9 different german voices exist in GM. 🙂

[normal coral]

SOGPF still got more praise than GM

because 'muh vietnam'

[frigid gorge]

Mond low key sitting here for all the GM praise)

[keen sparrow]

TBH, they handeld the MP part much better though compared to GM or now CSLA.

[fickle narwhal]

Okay. That doesn't surprise me knowing you two but I couldn't remember 😁

[bold mulch]

if we get a WW2 cdlc then it will get same positive response as SOGPF

because the mods for both are awful

it's not only about fanboying both settings

[fickle narwhal]

I just know that SOGPF doesn't

[normal coral]

There were zero mods for cold war germany before GM

[jolly lantern]

You'll always find people who dislike something.
But calling a DLC, with 80+% rating and barely any negative feedback after release, garbage is... highly dishonest at minimum

[bold mulch]

CWRIII?

[fathom ocean]

you mean when, not if

[jolly lantern]

RHS, CUP? Has been brought up in this channel several times even today

[normal coral]

that came out after gm

[bold mulch]

oh, my bad then

[jolly lantern]

It doesn't

[upper galleon]

There's also none of Czechoslovakia (except for one that's GM-based)

[normal coral]

On the map there is a very large amount of a2/a1/ofp whatever assets, and there are a number of mistakes with other assets (such as chinese type 56 rifle having russian fire selector)

Or serbian ammunition crates

[lost cliff]

I came here for an honest discussion about Iron Curtain, not this shit show. 🙁

[normal coral]

^^^^

please

can we just stop

[vestal prawn]

When it comes to the map, it does. When it comes to units, weapons and vehicles, it definitely doesn't.

[fathom ocean]

Unsung had a excessive amount of Arma 1 ports, and from the unsung arma 2 mod.

So they set out to fix that with SOGPF, which has some models that date back but not to the extent where people really notice. Especially not those who dont know what to look for, which is a win.

[fickle narwhal]

It will die down eventually

[jolly lantern]

Are the buildings on the map really A2? not livonia (which somewhat is A2.. I guess?)?

[frigid gorge]

I called tanoa laggy, not the DLC garbage. I said apex isn't close to the CDLC, and provided reasons for why

[shy ibex]

if the quality is significantly better graphically (because people care way more about graphics than anything else) - yes.
If not - only if there is much more content or unique stuff not already available

[normal coral]

arma 1 doors, hospital model from a2, serbian a2 ammunition crates, i can find a few more if i load it up right now

[upper galleon]

The hotel from Chernarus without the red star sign and a coat of paint is there. Many of the vanilla A3 greek houses are there, Apex buildings are there but "Vietnamized" with Vietnamese signs etc. There's also very cool custom buildings tho

[jolly lantern]

And are a few buildings on a huge terrain really that relevant?
They are just the sprinkles on your bucket full of icecream

[frigid gorge]

RHS and CUP don't have many of CSLAs and GMs vics, and some they do but in way worse quality. Some in better

[keen sparrow]

(He was talking about S.O.G IIRC)

[frigid gorge]

The message he replied to was about apex, so idk

[vestal prawn]

Yes, quite a few from OA not A2 but that's about the same. Also many map assets, objects etc.

[inner cloud]

base arma has a few A2 assets does it not

[leaden kite]

if you're talking about CSLA, there are some but definitelly not all and also not most.

[inner cloud]

idk using older assets isn’t that bad

[upper galleon]

That's the thing, it's not really that relevant at all. And that's what i wanted to point out, as I never saw anything at this magnitude in regards to complaints related to SOG reusing assets.

[keen sparrow]

He is talking about S.O.G PFs map.

[leaden kite]

o

[jolly lantern]

no SOGPF.
CSLA has really few ported buildings if I saw it right

[frigid gorge]

Using older assets isn't bad at all, especially when done well

[shy ibex]

personally not a fan of the towns in SOGPF because the assets look really cobbled together - in terms of quality, but also architectural style. I have no reference or knowledge how the actual place looks/looked IRL though

[leaden kite]

yeah, fire station from A2 and a few others, but it's minor

[frigid gorge]

The vics - csla did well, the weapons and gear - almost completely not

[normal coral]

I saw 3 or 4, maybe 5 people on about it, drowned out by torrents of 'haha vietnam' and praise

[frigid gorge]

the two house embassy))

[visual leaf]

All these "Arma 2 assets" complains would stop immediately if BI announced that those will make it into vanilla A3 just like it does with its official DLCs... that would end this and the bad reviews because of that.

[normal coral]

CSLA discussion since release has been an ABSOLUTE UNENDING SHITSHOW

[shy ibex]

that just proves that people dont care about buildings when assessing "value" ... everything is about vehicles, weapons, and soldier barbies

[frigid gorge]

Why would they ever do that?

And no, they wouldn't stopn

[fathom ocean]

which is what people interact with most

[leaden kite]

I can testify on that part. The towns/cities don't look amazing. Not bad, but not amazing

[bold mulch]

well you can't recreate cities 1:1 in Arma 3

[vestal prawn]

TBH, I don't really care in regards to SOG:PF. I bought it for the VC/NVA units and the weapons and some vehicles. If it is mostly ported stuff like CSLA seems to be, I don't buy it. That simple.

[shy ibex]

in urban fights, you arguably interact with buildings more than with anything else 😛

[inner cloud]

like i said, anything vietnam that is better than unsung at all will be praised forever

[echo sluice]

You can stop, people have complaints with their purchase and so long as they spent money they have the right to complain

[sour ginkgo]

That would be great

[frigid gorge]

The map is godlike but most people don't care to consider it instead attack the whole CDLC instead

[visual leaf]

Because those are not new assets and are the reason why players are complaining that CSLA is just a mod...

[jolly lantern]

Yeah I don't see why its relevant.
Even if you didn't port them, what would you do better? higher poly buildings? Not needed at all.
Better fitting the terrain? slap a different texture on it. done.
They are just used as fillter, whereas the important parts that matter are newly made buildings (SOGPF)

Or do you prefer a DLC to cost 5-10€ more and take a year or two longer to develop just to have newly made buildings that aren't any better in gameplay than just reusing old ones

[frigid gorge]

Not new assets to what? They are new to Arma 3

[inner cloud]

bro...

[visual leaf]

Mods have ported all the A2 assets to A3 already! Do we have to minusculely explain everything to you?

[leaden kite]

correct, but CSLA does what I haven't really seen from other maps. There are actual back alleys and small, narrow roads, etc. It feels like actual towns with character, not buildings randomly sprinkled around, if that makes sense

[normal coral]

I would pay CSLA dlc just for the map, to be honest

It is of great quality.

[inner cloud]

i bought arma 2, why would i buy it again with a couple new vehicles

[normal coral]

A couple?

[frigid gorge]

That's not their problem. They need to sell the base game and dlcs, not base game and mods

[inner cloud]

like 4 with some other variants

[keen sparrow]

Yes. That atleast I prefer the map of GM and its buildings. Because I think some of the re textures of S.O.G still don't fit compleaty. I prefer it also, when I can enter all the buildings (not sure if you can do that with S.O.G)

[frigid gorge]

Not saying its right, but it shouldn't be hard to see from their perspective

[solar elbow]

Question, what's the go with the CSLA RPG being the same as Apex? I was under the assumption CDLC were not allowed to use premium assets

[normal coral]

i would say something like 45 out of the 53 vehicles are new

[shy ibex]

redoing the exact same building - certainly not worth it. But the lack of building variety is imo a real weakness. How many times have we been in the same A3 greek houses 1 to 3 that just have the same color, entries, layout etc.

[bold mulch]

I referred to the "two building compound" somebody mentioned before. Nobody should expect a kilometers-wide compounds in game which have never had any real-size buildings

[leaden kite]

o

[visual leaf]

Indeed!

[frigid gorge]

Def yes, would prefer that

[shy ibex]

nobody wants to pay for it though...

[inner cloud]

i mean vehicles that aren’t in quality mods already

[bold mulch]

even the CSLA one. is there ANY BUILDING that has a WC?

[normal coral]

no mod has 105mm abrams

no mod has CUCV

no mod has M60-armed HMMWV

[leaden kite]

p sure I saw some, but I'd have to check again

[bold mulch]

or a properly made kitchen?

i highly doubt that

[leaden kite]

I don't think anyone expects a properly made kitchen. But it's nice to walk into a room and not be greeted by the deep, never-ending void of doom

[bold mulch]

Arma it's a military simluator where everybody shits near roads

[visual leaf]

But selling mods is exactly what they are doing with CSLA... or BI is earning no money from these CDLCs sales?

[fathom ocean]

does furniture even exist in the arma universe

[normal coral]

No it is not

[bold mulch]

there is a TABLE

and a chair

[leaden kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237077887117819906/854770005585821716/unknown.png took this earlier. This (as far as arma and its poor optimization goes) is pretty good

[inner cloud]

hardly new

[echo sluice]

It is when the content doesn’t affect vanilla in any way, requires a different state to launch in, and runs differently

[bold mulch]

[sour ginkgo]

Because you have it then all in one sandbox

[next bolt]

No one cares about furniture props, it is not an ikea sim.

[inner cloud]

CUP already does that

[jolly lantern]

it was abducted by alients

[shy ibex]

Iran stole all the tables and chairs. They are very rare and expensive. Old guy from old man tanoa mission had some furniture :P.

[normal coral]

So GM is a mod?

[echo sluice]

Yes

[fathom ocean]

yes that is a confirmed part of the lore, isnt there a newspaper ingame that says that

[inner cloud]

no, only on middle eastern maps with CUP buildings

[echo sluice]

They’re paid mods

[mint cape]

How did this get approved to be released as cLDC? Im genuinly curious as to how no one caught / didnt care enough to throughly check this. And BI is ok with this representation attached to their name?

[inner cloud]

other than that there is no such thing

[sour ginkgo]

I don't know that, but that is a different point.

[bold mulch]

cDLC is a mod as it's not official neither does contain anything cut from original game

[visual leaf]

GM has like 20% ported content while CSLA has like 80%... that is closer than a mod than GM

[leaden kite]

I lowkey wish that was actual lore

[fathom ocean]

the arma universe is locked in perpetual warfare because people do not want to go home to their empty homes.

[bold mulch]

BI doesn't have a proper insight to that. They just have reports and are forced to trust developers

[inner cloud]

community upgrade project ports basically everything from A1 and A2

[keen sparrow]

GM hasn't any ported content IIRC... at least I do not know from where they should have it...

[echo sluice]

Houses arent empty when they’re full of rubble

[bold mulch]

trees

[tardy raven]

ported from what?

[visual leaf]

Arma 2

[tardy raven]

wtf?

[keen sparrow]

They didn't port anything from A2 IIRC.

[sour ginkgo]

Yeah, unfortunately not the campaigns. And yes: I'm a big fan of CUP

[fathom ocean]

being a real estate agent must be hell in arma - some buildings you just straight up cant enter...

[fickle narwhal]

Yeah pretty sure everything in GM is brand new

[tardy raven]

thats fake estate then

[echo sluice]

🍿

[shy ibex]

sounds pretty much like real life

[visual leaf]

If GM didn't even port 1% of its assets from Arma 2 then it proves my point even further... that GM is a true CDLC and not just a mod mascarading as a CDLC like other CDLCs

[bold mulch]

there is no definition of cDLC

[frigid gorge]

Very true

But also that, you beat me to it

[tardy raven]

so csla is crap in other words?

[bold mulch]

i mean cdlc is a mod with official main game developer assistance

so there's no mascarade

[inner cloud]

GM>all CDLC

[leaden kite]

it's "mixed". But it mostly depends on whether the map sells you on it or not. If not, then.. not.

[visual leaf]

WTF? OF course there is! That is why BI set the minimum requirements for it!

[shy ibex]

assistance as in maybe marketing, hosting, ... not actual development

[tardy raven]

does csla have any missions and/or campaigns included?

[frigid gorge]

https://arma3.com/dlc/creator#FAQ

[shy ibex]

and marketing as in "here is a tweet"

[frigid gorge]

Also that ^

[keen sparrow]

10 SP mission and a few MP mission too, 17 in total with variation (IIRC)

[frigid gorge]

Think GM devs said that BI didn't really help that much

[fickle narwhal]

Missions yes. No campaign

[inner cloud]

“Creator DLC is brand new additional content for Arma 3, which is made by third-party developers, and published by Bohemia Interactive. Our goal with Creator DLC is to provide more original quality content to players, create an opportunity for outside talent to earn a financial reward, while also making it possible for Bohemia to invest more into the Arma series' long-term future.”

that’s what CDLC are

[delicate zenith]

idk maybe i dont understand but if you dont like the cdlc why not just either a) not buy it b) refund it

[visual leaf]

That is the DEFINITION! 👏

[bold mulch]

I meant the "true cDLC" words

[inner cloud]

oh

yeah

[bold mulch]

retexture or remaster of a reused model is still a original quality content

[inner cloud]

all the CDLC are true CDLC lol

[leaden kite]

The loose outline is that it's something that wouldn't have otherwise been possible, which definitely can be said for SOG, as well GM. However, I would also add CSLA's map to that. The rest

[inner cloud]

“true CDLC” basically means nothing

[bold mulch]

that GM is a true CDLC and not just a mod mascarading as a CDLC like other CDLCs
that's what I'm referring to

[inner cloud]

ah

[hollow cloak]

SOG wasn't a mod lol

[frigid gorge]

Unsung

[hollow cloak]

And the price points were all different

[visual leaf]

True cDLC feature content that is not just ported from other games like Arma 2

[hollow cloak]

There wasn't overlap between sig and unsung except one or ywo devs

[bold mulch]

.

[visual leaf]

Or at least the higher % is trully new

[frigid gorge]

It doesn't state that as a requirement

BI might not approve of such as CDLC

But that isn't written anywhere, right?

[leaden kite]

that would include tons of mods, too

[frigid gorge]

"A mod isn't a true mod if it's just retextures/animations/reconfigs/new sounds/etc, it has to have new models"

[visual leaf]

It is written in literally in 50% + of the current CSLA reviews in steam!

[frigid gorge]

I don't care about reviews of people spamming the steam page

https://arma3.com/dlc/creator#FAQ

This defines a CDLC

[visual leaf]

Mods are free, this is paid!

[frigid gorge]

Not useless reviews

[visual leaf]

You should care!

[shy ibex]

the amount of money and artist time put into the SOG clearly makes it NOT a mod you would get in any way. If you dont think its price is justified - fine. But dont pretend that a mod with the art quality of SOG would exist with any high amount of propability

[bold mulch]

you pay for a mod that is supported by BI.

not "just" a mod

how that support looks, you can see

but it doesn't change anything

[frigid gorge]

I am not saying they are completely the same

[upper galleon]

My conversation a few weeks ago in create_dlc_discussion about RHS and its application to become CDLC is interesting, the requirement was never not previously a mod but that it had to gain game modes and such. CDLC absolutely can repurpose existing mods, even remove them and expand their scope as far as I can tell.

[frigid gorge]

I pointed out that SOG existed as a mod before it released as much as CSLA does

[upper galleon]

Some of these CDLC were previously announced in the forums IIRC and then applied to become CDLC and then disappeared.

[echo sluice]

The steam workshop exists to give accessibility to everyone so people can crrate for games. CDLC spit in mod’s faces

[frigid gorge]

CSLA was never released and it's own thing, and SOG was just Unsung. Yes, lot's of things in SOG are incredibly higher quality than Unsung, but they are still related

[jolly lantern]

CDLC absolutely can repurpose existing mods, even remove them and expand their scope as far as I can tell.
no they can't.

about RHS and its application to become CDLC
Afaik RHS never applied to become a CDLC

[visual leaf]

The released SOG content was never released as a mod, while most of the CSLA content is part of CUP already! That is the HUGE difference!

[shy ibex]

only reason RHS is not a cDLC since way back when is due to cDLC concept not existing way back when... In terms of amount of content and quality it hits all the marks

[frigid gorge]

Nothing in CSLA is in CUP

[shy ibex]

doubt there will be a free RHS mod for Arma 4.

[frigid gorge]

They might have very similar things, but it's not the same content

[leaden kite]

no they can't.
wait, really? Would you expand on that? I'm genuinely curious now

[frigid gorge]

Same way as nothing in CUP is in A2, as they have changed and edited what they added into CUP

Modding isn't ctrl+c - ctrl+v, like some people like to believe

[bold mulch]

they won't make one from scratch, I'm sure about that

[visual leaf]

Yeah they added a brighter texture and changed its config minimally, hell lots of work and love went into that

[jolly lantern]

Same origins is what they mean. Too many people omit that though

[frigid gorge]

remove 4 words))
"doubt there will be a Arma 4."

[bold mulch]

but it's not CUP, it's previous Arma.

[jolly lantern]

Can't take free mods and incorporate them into DLC, or turn content that was previously available for free into paid content

[leaden kite]

Interesting, I didn't know. Thanks for the explanation, think it's a good thing, fundamentally (the rule, I mean)

[frigid gorge]

Most mods are from the same originl, and 2/3 CDLCs are from the same origin.
At what point will people complaing "you used the same code, you are reselling old code!!"

(Not saying this towards you dedmen, just in general)

[hollow cloak]

Yeah the steam reviews seem pretty misplaced. People keep parroting that there are A2 ports, and no on mentions the difference in price point, or for that matter the difference in quality. I think some people have rosy memory when it comes to a2 textures.

[dense jolt]

this

[shy ibex]

you dont need to make from scratch to make a better version of something. Models can be upped in poly count, textures rendered in better resolutions. Details can be added. I'm sure most of the more recent models are made with modern pipelines, so artists already have 4k or even 8k textures sitting on their hdd, but its all squashed down to "Arma level

[dense jolt]

also this

[jolly lantern]

Never. There are always people.
Even in SOGPF tons of people said things are A2 ports, or came from Unsung. When infact they were made from scratch.
So even if "ported old content" isn't even there, people will still complain about it being there without even checking their facts.

[dense jolt]

also, none of this has anything to do with csla

[frigid gorge]

Exactly @wary mauvemen

Through not everything in PF is made from scratch, unless in your definition everything in CSLA is made from scratch too

[delicate zenith]

lmao this dlc is $15. the map alone makes up most of that cost. This is, in my opinion, better than Jets or Tanks in terms of content provided for cost.

[shy ibex]

definition for "ITS A COPY/PORT" in public eye: anything that looks even remotely similar to anything that already has been seen once somewhere else

[hollow cloak]

It is really disappointing for the csLa mods tbh, it looks like they're getting treated the same way theGM devs were when it came out
People had unreasonable expectations and bandwagonned to do negative reviews

[leaden kite]

to be fair, the motorbike is a good example, though. It is literally the same visually

[hollow cloak]

Mods should read "devs"

[frigid gorge]

I thought it was 10$ now while on sale?

[delicate zenith]

yeah but base price

[frigid gorge]

I wonder what the price will be on sale, GM was 7 bucks..

[timid quartz]

$15 for a map

[upper galleon]

12 Euros base price here. Gotta love inflation

[frigid gorge]

and another 5 GBs of content

[delicate zenith]

yeah vs $15 for two (2) planes

[shy ibex]

im not trying to defend that, its just a general observation. And its not just limited to arma/mods discussions. It applies to everything.

[leaden kite]

sherm pls

[inner urchin]

theres literally a strichtarn uniform mod in the workshop and you can fill the rest in with rhs or cup

bruh

[frigid gorge]

Assuming similar price change, CSLA would be 3-4$ on sale

[jolly lantern]

People say its bad and they don't want to pay for A2 ports.. But... Do you ACTUALLY pay for that? considering how much cheaper this CDLC is, the price was adjusted accordingly.
You pay for the work done by the devs.
Not for every asset (yes that vehicle might've at one point been in A2 and has since been polished and got tons of work poured into it by the devs)

[echo sluice]

Difference is that we don’t get their effort, we get the product

[frigid gorge]

And the product is worth it for some

and not for others

[inner urchin]

honestly, tbf rage aside the reason creator dlcs are not as popular as it is is because of the fucking dlc policy, everyone has to have it or no one does, or, 20 gb download for shit we’d already have

[echo sluice]

Cool

[inner urchin]

thats not a hit on this creator dlc

[frigid gorge]

That is how all mods work

[echo sluice]

This is why base game does it much better, you can use these things but you get ads

[frigid gorge]

Everybody has to have them, otherwise how do you play on the same server?

[keen sparrow]

7,5 gigs this time only.

[inner urchin]

true

[jolly lantern]

I agree on that front.
The leftover bugs and quality issues are bad.
But having some content that was once in its life in A2 isn't the major problem IMO, but that is what the majority of people complain about.

[frigid gorge]

+++

[inner urchin]

but the strichtarn mod i mentioned is like 500 mb? rhs and cup weapons and units are already installed

so whats the point?

[frigid gorge]

It's the issues in some quality, and definitely some big bugs that is a problem for CSLA

And like with the others - we'll just have to wait and see if they fix these in the future

[inner urchin]

oh rught forgot to mention, the map

its soooo good

[frigid gorge]

But until proven otherwise, I don't see any reason to distrust the creators of CSLA

[inner urchin]

if they’d just let other fucking people play on it and see how good it is! instead of having everyone buy it

[frigid gorge]

what?

[inner urchin]

?

[keen sparrow]

Why?

[inner urchin]

so i wanna mention a dlc policy of a favorite game of my, hoi4

[echo sluice]

the point of the cdlc is to give an experience that can't be done or even supplemented with mods

[inner urchin]

or paradox games in general
the host needs the dlcs, thats it

[echo sluice]

thats why pf did so well

[keen sparrow]

I mean, you can still look at it, but just can't play it like normal DLCs if you don't have it.

[echo sluice]

you dont want to spend money if you can get it for free

[inner urchin]

true…

sadly true

[frigid gorge]

"Best DLC policy" - every single update is hiden behind a DLC

[keen sparrow]

(But lets be real, HOI4 DLCS can be often, lets just say a tid of a rip off, but that goes offtopic.)

[nimble dove]

I think that it's a kind of a failure that the DLCs add same obvious assets 🤷‍♂️
Although I don't think that it's easy to imagine some new extraordinary setting for the game from real life.

[frigid gorge]

Imagine if you had to pay to access the jets DLC radar features

[echo sluice]

this particular team shot themselves in the foot by choosing a time period that's been done to death

[frigid gorge]

The submunition update. The tanks armour update, and so on

[inner urchin]

i didnt say it was the best but def better than what we have rn

[upper galleon]

hmm to many negative reviews on steam im pressing X to doubt

[copper monolith]

Correction: GM has 0% ported content. 🙂

[delicate zenith]

its a review bomb

[inner urchin]

x

you saw that reddit post, so did i

[leaden kite]

GM devs out here shilling

[frigid gorge]

Idk those config.bin look an awful lot like a config.bin I saw in Arma 2

[vestal prawn]

I am kind of surprised that people are surprised. The large amount of ported A2 assets was obvious from the very first screenshots, also the quality of the other models/textures was pretty clear (especially taking into account that stuff often looks 20% nicer on promo screenshots).
So, everyone who bought this could have known. The others (like me): Don’t buy it (or for a few bucks while it’s on sale).

[frigid gorge]

what?

[bold mulch]

you really know more than the cdlc's dev, do you

[visual leaf]

Yeah I was just assuming, corrected it later... I was actually defending GM as a trully worthy CDLC, but taken out of context it seems like I was criticising...

[echo sluice]

It's pretty clear since this time has been overdone

[inner urchin]

no not really i’ll admit

im just…fucking angry cuz im having a bad night

[bold mulch]

then why would you deny his statement

[inner urchin]

there i said it :p

[upper galleon]

i mean they could always have showed up "how it was built/work in progress" from the toolsets to prove that they are made from scratch

[inner urchin]

idk man idk how people work

im sorry

[upper galleon]

instead how having the doubt "is this a direct washed out port from a2?"

[jolly lantern]

Why do they need to proove though.
Instead of the people accusing them prooving it

[leaden kite]

^

[inner urchin]

but still…its pretty weird they’d have very similar looking assets its a theory

a gameeeee

th-

[leaden kite]

The onus is not on the defendant to provide proof for someone else's claims

[versed jungle]

Attention everyone.... Iron Curtain is shit. That is all, thank you, and have a nice day.

[upper galleon]

so i can just take out a3 assets modify lil bit and make a new game but i dont have to prove anything

[frigid gorge]

You are replying to a topic about GM

[bold mulch]

being a cDLC part does not mean everything has to be made from scratch.

[frigid gorge]

None of them looked similar to anything Arma 2 I can think of

[inner urchin]

no im talijng about csla

[bold mulch]

it just has to be different and/or accepted by BI.

[shy ibex]

"i think i'm right, thats why you have to prove i'm not"

[frigid gorge]

This reply

[jolly lantern]

No. The person who files the DMCA on you and accuses you of stealing needs to prove

[frigid gorge]

Is to the GM dev

Saying how GM has 0 ported content

[bold mulch]

if they accept a retexture then it's enough to consider a cDLC as brand new

[leaden kite]

it's on others to prove that their claims are right.

Also what dedmen said

[inner urchin]

ohhhh

im retarded!

i absolutely am retarded!

[frigid gorge]

"Correction: GM has 0% ported content. :slight_smile:"

[inner urchin]

@copper monolith hey im sorry man i read that wrong

sincerely from me

[upper galleon]

thats a different topic, sure they dont rly need to prove anything , even b4 they went CDLC they were showing off how they were working on assets

[inner urchin]

thats on me

[frigid gorge]

Only people they need to prove anything to are BI

[upper galleon]

i think the CDLC policy to "hide" stuff "keep ur mounth shut " is not doing any good

[shy ibex]

cdlc police?

[leaden kite]

what

[inner urchin]

we have mods for that?

[frigid gorge]

Policy

[upper galleon]

policy*

sry lol

[frigid gorge]

I am pretty sure he meant policy kek

[leaden kite]

even with the word policy, that still makes no sense to me

[echo sluice]

What im pissed about is how bohemia can't launch anything without deleting my loadouts

[jolly lantern]

You say that now because you don't know how it would be otherwise.
Imagine if a DLC showed off jets and talked about a campaign and multiplayer missions. But all that had to be cut on release because it wasn't working right.

Do you think people are happier:

1. Buying it and seeing that tons of the stuff they saw and heard about isn't there
2. Not knowing whats in there before buying, and then being surprised by all the new content they didn't expect

[inner urchin]

t-they did?

[echo sluice]

yea, all of my loadouts on all my profiles are gone

[inner urchin]

i installed both gm and csla, and iirc they were fine, my loadouts survived pf too

[echo sluice]

they get deleted with every releaase

[inner urchin]

i think thats a thing on your end chief

did they? maybe i missed something

[echo sluice]

still obnoxous

[inner urchin]

thats one party i dont mind missing

[leaden kite]

sounds like a you issue, tbh. Never had these problems

[jolly lantern]

I still have loadouts in my ACE Arsenal from early 2020

[echo sluice]

not ace, vanilla

[inner urchin]

ah yes

[jolly lantern]

They are both stored the same way in the same place

[timid quartz]

ace cDLC wen

[inner urchin]

the wonders of the bi arsenal

[visual leaf]

Guys stop complaining, the CSLA Iron Curtain map has airfields and is not entirely flat like other cDLCs maps.... 😅

[inner urchin]

afaik no one hates the map

[echo sluice]

then why do they keep getting deleted without me doing anything different at every cdlc launch

[leaden kite]

honestly, I would love an ace cDLC

[delicate zenith]

a cDLC that changes mechanics like ACE does would be hell

[inner urchin]

everyone praised it even in negative reviews on steam agleast

[upper galleon]

imagine cDLC to fix fps🤯

[leaden kite]

I should rephrase. Ace3 2.0 cdlc

[echo sluice]

people talk about source spaghetti, what about [insert arma engine here] spagett

[timid quartz]

idd the map is not the issue, though I'd say it's definitely not the best map out there for sure.

[visual leaf]

Shut up and take my money!

[upper galleon]

That CDLC would sell but it would look terrible for BI!

[inner urchin]

yeah

i liked it too

shame people who doesnt have it cant play on it

;-; (can they?)

[bold mulch]

you can always download more RAM

[visual leaf]

A real fix for the FPS issues is to be announced later this year 😉

[timid quartz]

Reforger? lmao

[inner urchin]

no bro pour gasoline on your computer

[upper galleon]

Wow, So many haters. Really sad to see the Arma community be so petty for some of the content.

[inner urchin]

liquid cooling

[shy ibex]

what about clock? Need more clock...

[bold mulch]

what

[inner urchin]

actually i’d really fucking love them adding more watches for flavor

[bold mulch]

change from 12-hour to 24 one

[inner urchin]

i need a fucking calculator watch for arma like how ctab works

[leaden kite]

a fair amount of the criticism is valid. Others are... not so much.

[visual leaf]

You can always say that you "run Arma 3 at 70 Fps" like most fanboys do, what they don't tell even to themselves is that their 70 FPS only happens on a empty map with no vehicles, no ai and no other players 😉

[inner jackal]

And compasses. Need more compass love 😉

[inner urchin]

garmin foretrex(?) when?

[shy ibex]

"How to do this top trick that CPU vendors hate"

[timid quartz]

Does the cDLC deserve a sub 20% rating? No I don't think so, personally when testing it I didn't think it deserved that low of a rating.. however I would argue that compared to SOGPF and mostly GM.. this is a subpar cDLC, even for the price

[inner urchin]

at worst its 4/10

at best its 5.5

imho

[bold mulch]

well you can't leave a 1-10 review, just yes or no

[inner urchin]

so its a 4.8 for me, needs some work could be easily 6-7

[leaden kite]

disregarding the map, I'd say it's a 3.5, maybe a 4/10. With the map, I'd push it barely above a 5

[inner urchin]

ik i just wanna do it here :p

[timid quartz]

Well then it's a "Do not recommend" from me in it's current state

[bold mulch]

and I won't leave a positive one just because a part of the DLC is okay to me

[bold mulch]

same

[inner urchin]

actually the armored vehicles looks dope as hellll

looks

[visual leaf]

If you already use mods then it is a 3/10, if you are a newie or hate to download mods and have money to spare then it is probably a 5/10