more or less the same arguments being made there as here but with a little less knowledge of the precise details.
#creator_dlc_discussion
wraith sleet
The big difference with reddit is that you can't shout down the people who have legitimate concerns, you can respond to them but repeatedly claiming this is something it not doesn't work due to its format. This is the biggest difference I see in how it has played out in the 3 places this is being discussed (here, reddit and the forums).
untold oracle
eeh, I think it's more that people read the posts before, as it's easier than scrolling countless comments in Discord
boreal scroll
This may already have been answered somewhere in the thousand plus comments over the last couple of days, but are we going to get more detail and/or a trailer video for the new DLC before it launches?
vital dome
I hope bi realises that People are Fine with watermarks or low res textures and making a Change to this
I for myself buys it anyways👌🏼
keen trench
people still need to down load that low res texture
mild solstice
You sometimes see threads on the forum complaining about the watermark stuff still
vital dome
It Could still be a optional Download
I think they complaining because they dont want to buy it but they also want no watermarks
mild solstice
Precisely; they complain that they don't want content they have no intention to buy being in the game at all, so the CDLC approach would suit them better
It's not like there is a single solution that will please everybody
vital dome
True
boreal scroll
@tepid lance Thanks
untold oracle
Those are minority though and will complain against everything
mild solstice
Regardless, the complaints are no less valid
tribal dragon
So. A guy in my group did make a valid point to me yesterday. For a total conversion mod of around 30GB which is as large as base Arma itself requiring many to have that is a bit much. Which makes sense that it's the optional route vd the normal required one.
delicate pumice
In truth though a low-res version sans-terrain would be a lot smaller.
keen trench
I mean yes but it a lot of time and still going to be very big
signal copper
@tribal dragon sorry but as i said here before, using gamesize as an excuse in a 2019 is a nonsense, there are a lot of games over 100GBs in size, some of them have even more then 200 GBs
wide steppe
And this would still be an optional download, not something one'd be forced to get
signal copper
- today HDD/SSD prices are really low
ofcourse, if the game itself cannot handle(or with big perf issues etc) such amount of data then rip nearly 30 years of engine development
keen trench
you do know this was made by a small team right. Even Bohemia main studio is small compareded to groups like Dice. Yet Arma 3 is still better than those 100GB games
My point was that 20usd for this DLC is on par with other Arma 3 DLC price wise
Aka Apex
signal copper
i dont have any problem with paying for GM, i have a problem with the fact that it wont be distributed like previous DLCs, i dont see any problem making it like apex is, aka weapons locked, vehicles usable only as gunner/cargo, only terrain will not be downloaded,+ watermarks
as i said, filesize in a 2019...pfff
keen trench
o i agree but there are reasons they had to use this method
Some people wont want to down load 22gb of stuff they wont want to use
a Low res version of the mod is cool and all
signal copper
well and who is using vanilla 2035 aka mostly 1990 stuff anyways
keen trench
I mean a lot of severs still go unmodded
signal copper
yes, and like 90% of the people there are using navid or cyrus, because of how retarded these two weapons are
narrow cradle
as dedmen mentioned earlier in the day, making the download optional but shareware like the other DLCs would solve that issue.
keen trench
There may all so be other unknown reasons they chose this method
keen trench
Yes i prefer a Apex style release for the Mod but i dont think we have the opstion
narrow cradle
eh, option is for BI to provide
signal copper
lets use what i said now and think about it, when marksmen came out, everyone on vanilla servers who had marksmen dlc was using the new stuff, and was killing the ones who didnt have it, as the ones who were getting killed saw that and i´d say they thought "ooh, these marksmen weapons are really good(so op maybe), i should buy this dlc so i can have them" and so they bought it, you see the problem here? players with and without DLC were able to play together
narrow cradle
(or not provide)
signal copper
thats why i used brackets
keen trench
As i said it is the best option but there are probably unseen reasons.
narrow cradle
Mondkalb's already stated that they've balanced it with vanilla A3 in mind, though. So i don't think anything will be unrealistically OP vs anything else in the base game/BI DLCs.
tribal dragon
@signal copper I had the same stance last night but a DLC that is as big as vanilla Arma itself that's 20$ and could necessitate another HDD purchase is asking a bit much. You cannot realistically take that ideal and apply it's truth to everyone uniformly. For me, it's no big deal I just dropped 100$ on a 1TB SSD, not everyone will/can do that and it's unrealistic to apply your viewpoint to everyone uniformly and just expect them to adapt. People have different financial situations.
The other point that was made in conjunction with it being as big as vanilla is that it was a total conversion. It's E and W German ColdWar units on a new map and totally new assets to model a very specific conflict not connected to Arma3s story at all.
If it were units which fit into the storyline/current timeline of A3 then it would make more sense.
When that argument was made it actually makes alot of sense why it's best for this one to be an optional paid mod.
In the future if they have any new ones that are smaller and add units that align with the A3 timeline/universe I could get behind required download of it. But I've since switched sides from last night and think the optional DLC /Mod way of doing it makes sense.
keen trench
I dont think we will see to many small mods
red saddle
I also don't think it makes sense adding it to base game.
But atleast a free version of the DLC is needed so people can still play with eachother. Even if they still need to download it.
But we already do the same with mods, not really a problem
keen trench
Bohemai will at least have them be a few Gigs
red saddle
The other potential Creator DLC I know about is a total conversion too
keen trench
All of them are.
And i know they tested it against vanilla Amar and i am glad for that since we have been needing a good T55
Sorry Cup but your T55 is not pretty along side my RHS BMPs
tribal dragon
I mean there is also the thing that for groups that it really matters, they can require the DLC purchase, just like they do with Apex.
keen trench
Our group will pretty much have it be needed after awhile once mission makers start using terrain assets
Pff i want a centurion.
narrow cradle
ban chris pls
radiant cedar
No.
narrow cradle
no u
willow dragon
I've missed the initial discussion, so I have a question, is there any official info about being able to download DLC content without having the DLC in any form?
willow dragon
I know its size, it could be changed with low quality version, but any form of free release would still solve the problem of lack of public servers using that content which will probably happen.
worldly lodge
No
You need to buy the dlc to play / join server using any of the content in a mission
willow dragon
Thanks for the info, I hope it'll change in the future 😃
boreal scroll
I'm actually with BI on this. It's fine that they decided to effectively give away their own DLC content for everyone to use (albeit with adverts) as their staff get paid for the work anyway. However it's not really fair to the third party content creators to do they same as they only get paid if the content sells.
lone smelt
Well they could just have it locked or invisible for people who don't own it
boreal scroll
and they are only getting paid after spending the last year or two working on it without earning a penny
@lone smelt How is that any different from what they are doing, except that it would force users to download a lot of additional stuff they couldn't even see?
lone smelt
If they can't see it they don't have to download it
It'll work like normal mods
If you don't have something downloaded then it's simply invisible to you
willow dragon
Yeah, question is how many public servers will use DLC stuff if it reduces the number of players
lone smelt
Not a lot I imagine
And communities are not going to use it since it's not fair to require everyone to buy it
wraith sleet
People who want to buy it will buy it, those who don’t won’t
lone smelt
Before if you wanted IDAP in a mission you could still have them walking about and the people who don't own the IDAP dlc simply wouldn't be able to use it
wraith sleet
Seems like a good plan to me
molten shard
why would everything being invisible be better?
willow dragon
yep, that's why I'm worried, optional download for people without the DLC might have actually increased sales.
lone smelt
Invisible means you can still have it running on your server
You are not separating the community
wraith sleet
The content will sell itself, you’re paying less than Apex for more content
molten shard
players will just think something is wrong with their game
and confuse people
the way it works is fine
willow dragon
invisible is the worst solution, having the ability to download the content and not use it is much better, even if it ends up as low quality textures.
vocal pawn
it's hard to say it wouldn't be fair to the devs when the Apex approach is what the devs actually wanted to do
knotty ore
people who use it/the rest that are still coming will form new communities I suppose
lone smelt
Thing is that the map probably takes up a lot of the space
So just don't include that
That is a horrible solution Goat
fickle nova
@knotty ore People won't want to fracture their already existing communities for it though
knotty ore
its natural evolution
lone smelt
There are a bunch of already existing communities who are saying they won't use it
knotty ore
consider a new free mod was introduced that some wanted to play and others did not
lone smelt
Take Dsylexi for instance https://twitter.com/Dslyecxi/status/1118520142227484672
knotty ore
it too would didive communites just the same
fickle nova
I want to use it, but if the community I play with doesn't adopt it I'm not about to say goodbye over it, it's not worth it
sonic mica
...that leads to less players
knotty ore
then you wont
but others may
its personal choice
it wont hurt your community at all if you decide not to use it
lone smelt
I'm not sure I will buy it since my community may not use it so I'd just be throwing money away
vocal pawn
It will hurt us in that we will be missing out on grade-A content
knotty ore
so
delicate pumice
wouldn't be at all surprised to see somebody release a config replacement in short order
sonic mica
thats fine, but community won't chose to use content, thus killing the dlc sales
vocal pawn
this is like talking to a goldfish
sonic mica
yeah this whole issue is on BI
lone smelt
It should be really easy for them to fix as well
fickle nova
Also to those who were saying they couldn't do the typical DLC release model because the devs wouldn't be on board... https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/V1Mk4c93DVXerjnDK4b8wZYZRXBbgwfYoZBLDCNKC_E/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/106824005322838016/568370749522313229/Screenshot_20190418-1141442.png
knotty ore
@vocal pawn this channel has been an echo chamber for long time now
vocal pawn
perhaps if everyone is upset about this it means the problem is real
knotty ore
possibly, but theres nothing constructive said for long time. just the same over and over again
molten shard
I'm sure once it comes out things will be much less of a drama chat
and once it goes on sale for the first time even less
vocal pawn
What would you consider to be "constructive"? Discussion about GM itself lives in a different channel; all we have to talk about for the general CDLC model is this topic, and if you don't like the feedback we're giving, that doesn't make it unconstructive.
sonic mica
until they release more dlc that isn't usable
willow dragon
There definitely will be new communities around this dlc, question is the scale of them, it would be easier to answer if we had statistics about structure of people buying arma dlcs (whether they're in communities or play on public servers etc.)
molten shard
I'm sure plenty of people will be interested enough to create decent communities
regal shuttle
Can't wait for your market analysis and to use it to dictate people what they should buy or not base on assumptions.
This is of course how marketing works
/s
lone smelt
Not a lot of communities use Apex a lot I know that. Been in and out of groups since Apex came out and only two used Tanoa regularly.
That's out of 12 or so
One of them was using it for a normal campaign and the other was a multiplayer BECTI server that rotated maps
willow dragon
a lot of people (it's anecdotal though) bought previous dlcs because they could have more content in vanilla servers
lone smelt
That's what I did
molten shard
GM is a much different mod I think, people are looking at GM to get a cold war experience
not to expand upon their vanilla missions
willow dragon
it doesn't mean you can't use the assets along with vanilla stuff though
lone smelt
I want to use a Leopard in Warlords or use an MG3 on Invade and Annex
Could also be great for King of the Hill servers
knotty ore
well see you guys want to use it, so you will buy it right? and play on servers that use it when you want?
lone smelt
While I may buy it I know I won't be using it as much as I could. This will be splitting the community between haves and have nots.
molten shard
well we can't make too many assumptions
mond has said BI will be addressing this with official news
vocal pawn
Goat, you're talking purely about ad-hoc players with no server allegiance. For people who want to stick with their existing community and play with their friends, it's a more serious issue.
knotty ore
you can still play with them
lone smelt
Not a lot of servers will be willing to run this since it'll require them to split their community and require them to run a second second server. They'll be spending more money and have less people.
molten shard
If your community is interested in the mod
knotty ore
so its not about them, its about you
red saddle
🙄
vocal pawn
some of my community are interested in the mod, but I can't make all of them interested and I can't turn people away for not being interested (or for being poor)
and it is really all or nothing for a server
molten shard
Not necessarily
untold oracle
I'm actually with BI on this. It's fine that they decided to effectively give away their own DLC content for everyone to use (albeit with adverts) as their staff get paid for the work anyway. However it's not really fair to the third party content creators to do they same as they only get paid if the content sells.
GM stated they would like that, so it would be even fairer to them
lone smelt
You are requiring community members to spend actual money in order to play. Why do that when you can download RHS that already has much of the stuff already for free.
red saddle
There's a german saying. "Der Klügere gibt nach"
If you think people are wrong. Then just let them argue with themselves.
We don't need to have literally the same discussion a dozen times with always the same outcome.
red saddle
People say they don't like something.
Suddenly the opposite faction jumps out and attacks them for having wrong opinions.
Just let people be unhappy
knotty ore
*dlc(s)
molten shard
If you don't think you will play it, or just want to add some extra weapons to your arsenal
other mods already offer this
red saddle
Also if people are unhappy. Saying that "it's your problem then" doesn't actually mean anything.
ofc it's my problem if I'm unhappy with it
vocal pawn
look I'm glad you're satisfied with the situation but that doesn't actually resolve any of our issues with it
red saddle
But people think they can just turn their opinion around and keep discussing trying to do it. That's just running in circles without any use
lone smelt
@molten shard So the devs will not be getting as much money as they could. It's super simple to fix this issue on BI's part.
wraith sleet
This is just going to go on. I am now pretty shocked an entire day went by and they didn't manage to answer my questions.
lone smelt
BI is shooting themselves in the foot in terms of sales and it'll only get worse as more and more of these community DLC come out
red saddle
FYI everything is not set in stone yet. BI might change things if the community is vocal enough about it.
But in the end it's their decision and we can't really change it if they chose to not listen
@wraith sleet as I wrote before. Homesick has a few free days.
lone smelt
@wraith sleet Yeah I was expecting them to address this by now
willow dragon
plus we'll probably get more info about their decision reasons
wraith sleet
With the mod makers now showing this is firmly a BI choice that does put it entirely with the publisher.
red saddle
Waiting till tuesday isn't thaat bad. And things can still be changed after release.
vocal pawn
it's weird to me that they'd drop a major announcement and then immediately go silent on major questions about it
lone smelt
Most game sales happen in the first 72 hours though
I imagine the same is true for DLC
molten shard
I'm sure they're aware of the issues community members may have
little rampart
22GB = 22€ . 1€/GB. i've seen worse 😄
red saddle
Still way better than DDR3/4 pricing
vocal pawn
I don't think anyone's upset about the price
wraith sleet
There is insufficient interest in my community thus far so it doesn't look like it is worth buying for the few that are interested. Says it all about this model really.
little rampart
i just noticed. didnt aim it at anyone
red saddle
I'm sure they're aware of the issues community members may have
They are. But making decisions needs to be well thought through.
vocal pawn
some of this seems like stuff they should have been ready to answer though
wraith sleet
Just comes across as ill prepared, these weren't gotcha questions.
vocal pawn
I mean, people were wary of the CDLC model when they announced it months ago, they've had a while to prepare a response
lone smelt
the price is fine, the thing looks great, but not being able to use it with vanilla like all the other DLC that have come out is the issue
It also should be pretty easy to fix the problem
waxen dune
probably has been said a million times - they could also go the PMC route like Arma2/OA with blurred/compressed textures if they were really concerned about "disk space"
willow dragon
yep
wraith sleet
Dedmen already determined that they wont. This is entirely BI's decision and they more than likely intend to push it through as is. Those two extra pieces of information (from GM about the model and Dedmen's dramatic change post discussion) make me think anti CDLC action may be necessary from the free mod community
wraith sleet
BI fancies following EA's old model that gamers hated? Well then they get treated like EA.
molten shard
? how is this anything like an EA model
red saddle
There's still hope. As with many Arma related things
wraith sleet
This is very similar to the prior battlefield model
little rampart
"anti cdlc action from the free mod community" - who is free mod community? the ones that use it or the ones that make it?
molten shard
most dlcs for games don't include the content for use in the base game
red saddle
The modders don't get hurt by this
molten shard
if BI was including unlocking the new gear through lootboxes and paywalling the editor maybe I could see the analogy to EA
red saddle
the only anti action you can do is not buying it
but you don't really need to make that a "action".
You can't use it in your community. Thus you have no use for it. Thus you don't buy it.
That alone should be enough
wraith sleet
I think you could also make your mod fail to function if it was present, banning its use for with the CDLC.
little rampart
lol... i think the opposite is the case
red saddle
Wellll.... Sure.... But that'd be overkill
It's not like CDLC hurts anyone or is harmful
little rampart
modders use the cdlc because they like it
red saddle
it's just sad and badly implemented
wraith sleet
It could have been really successful, now it wont be.
molten shard
?
little rampart
says you
red saddle
true. But we don't need to try to make it less successful.
boreal scroll
@fickle nova That's fine for Mondalkb, but he can't claim to speak for all the teams
red saddle
Don't think it has to be.
There might be different kinds of CDLC with different types of restrictions
wraith sleet
It sounds like BI has chosen this model on purpose and its not up to the mod developers.
molten ice
wut
red saddle
Well it's not what the mod devs wanted. So kinda.
But maybe they'll think about it again
wraith sleet
Given they wanted it to have the Apex model and they couldn't says it all really.
molten shard
I'm sure they've made this decision for legitimate reason
why would they go back on previous plans just to be mean?
boreal scroll
I'd also point out, that those saying that another few GB on this DLC is nothing, probably haven't considered that this is just the first of several DLCs
timid mountain
naaah they made it for bastard reasons
wraith sleet
We all thought this was BI's choice but it was nice to get that confirmed.
red saddle
I'd also point out, that those saying that another few GB on this DLC is nothing, probably haven't considered that this is just the first of several DLCs
I'd also point out (like I did several times already) that the problems can all be solved while keeping the optional download
So the size is irrelevant really
boreal scroll
@wraith sleet I'm not sure that statement by Modalkb confirms that it was BIs decision, we don't know how the other creator's voted on the subject or even if they were given that vote.
molten shard
there are multiple cdlc in development
red saddle
Yeah might be that the other creators of other CDLC's didn't want the old model. And that's why BI decided that way, because they wanted to have the same for each CDLC and chose the majority
molten shard
it would be unfair to have some creators work one way and others do not
red saddle
Thanks for bringing that up. hadn't thought about that at all yet
molten shard
it would bring much more confusion to the community than a standard model
willow dragon
still servers with all dlcs content available might be hard with more of those dlcs
even with free optional download
untold oracle
BI can set terms they want though
if they fucked that up with original contracts, well 😛
vocal pawn
if the other creators did bring this on us, it's a bummer that they were so short-sighted
red saddle
Maybe that will be unlikely tho. Most CDLC's that I heard of so far are total conversions.
Running two total conversions side by side doesn't make that much sense
wraith sleet
True but on the other hand these are third parties we might expect them to have differing terms, I asked about differing terms for a reason. Having them all use this model is a bit of a problem for poor GM who get to not only go first but get forced into the sales model they don't want.
red saddle
imagine running halo and IFA3 together
untold oracle
they are vanilla-compatible @red saddle
red saddle
yeah but.. It would still be nuts having WW1 fight against laser guns 😄
untold oracle
and restricting combining those would be stupid
it would be amazing!
like think of all the bad movies, done well in a game
molten shard
but most communities do not
willow dragon
@red saddle you can still fit most of this dlc in wastelands/exiles etc. or even just weapons
molten shard
how many unsung star wars servers do you see?
red saddle
None cuz star wars is forbidden
molten shard
lel
red saddle
How many unsung halo servers do you see?*
timid mountain
'over 9000
boreal scroll
@wraith sleet The one thing I'd object to there is "Forced into" ... none of the third parties were forced into anything, they signed up voluntarily and like all contracts they could have decided to walk away if they didn't agree to the terms.
red saddle
9000 lightyears away. In another galaxy.
vocal pawn
it's not necessarily about being able to run two total conversions against each other, but being able to play both on the same server - and with near-modern content like GM, a lot of the equipment is interchangeable (the G3 is still in use today for example)
narrow cradle
yeah but.. It would still be nuts having WW1 fight against laser guns
to be fair, whoever wants to do that should be free to, but i suspect in most cases scenario designers will regulate that.
timid mountain
GM also has stuff for AAF
molten shard
yes but other mods offer the G3 without a total expansion?
boreal scroll
GM obviously agreed to the licensing model even if they say it wasn't their first choice.
wraith sleet
As people point out it is easy consider that you might have modern or future troops against poorly armed insurgent rebels using yester year equipment, it isn't remotely far fetched to have lasers v G3's
inner oyster
Irrelevant to the creator DLC thing, our group was looking forward to GM as it added a lot of things that we otherwise didn't have, Leo1s and East German uniforms for example
So I can see how other groups would consider using it alongside other mods like RHS and not as a standalone
narrow cradle
yeah i mean giving AAF, FIA or Syndikat some old german stuff would be rad 😄
or even mixing old and new NATO equipment
boreal scroll
@wraith sleet Ahh, but you can't employ logic here. After all earlier today someone was reprising the flawed argument about "overpowered" weapons (guess we should tell the US to stop using half their weapons because they are "overpowered" compared to some other nations")
inner oyster
Hell we plan to use MNP Australian Auscam uniforms, with NIArms FALs and a retextured GM Leo1 for a 1980s Australian combined arms mission
narrow cradle
And a lot of us are less pedantic about gear combinations 😛
boreal scroll
The whole concept of superior tactics over weaponry is completely lost on many gamers 😦
willow dragon
if people are worried about size further split to weapons/vehicles/assets would work too
narrow cradle
not to mention mondkalb's already stated that they've balanced the weapons vs vanilla, so that seems to be a non-issue 🤷🏽
willow dragon
as in most cases weapons can be used almost everywhere
narrow cradle
size is solved by keeping it an optional download tbh
inner oyster
yeah optional download seems the best
narrow cradle
that way whichever CDLC a community is interested in, it can keep
willow dragon
it can still be redueced though
inner oyster
too big, dont download it
boreal scroll
@narrow cradle Non-issue for some, just becomes an issue for those who actually want realistic asymmetry 🤷
inner oyster
Oh yeah for sure
narrow cradle
@boreal scroll i meant you won't end up in a RHS-like situation with the armour model
i.e. G3 performs realistically against vanilla A3 body armour, etc.
boreal scroll
I'm hoping that he meant "calibrated" rather than "balanced"... as in the T-50 still won't stand a chance against a single round from a modern MBT
etc
narrow cradle
yeah that's how i read it
inner oyster
Yeah same
untold oracle
calibrated sounds weird but is also way more correct, funny
lone smelt
@boreal scroll Uses the desert factions and the Poles in the Total War games along with Japan in Men of War
I don’t even know what superior weapons are
Are those the things my insurgency picks up in Antitasi that don’t really do that much to upgrade the squads fighting capabilities?
Actually Antitasi is the perfect example of why that argument doesn’t work. You can do fine using a Mosin or Kar 98 against people using AK-74s and M4s. Plus a lot of the engagements in Arma happen at long range where the weapon you are using doesn’t matter that much. I’d even argue the 1980s equipment would do better then the weapons in vanilla Arma thanks to the 7.62 having longer range compared to the 6.65.
narrow cradle
I don’t even know what superior weapons are
there is only one superior weapon, comrade. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/000/426/f42.jpg
ebon linden
OH GOD... wait, they're not going to ebo structures like they did with Apex and leave it that way for a whole year are they
Pleeeeease no
narrow cradle
tbh EBOs are the least of our worries at the moment 😛
ebon linden
Well feck me
timid mountain
nothanks
ebon linden
I didn't even consider that. Welp rip
timid mountain
mondy has a fix tho
lone smelt
It’s super annoying since I want to divide Altis between east and west
ebon linden
Shoulda learned from the first time... OH
timid mountain
he has some objects to let terrainers gonna terrain
ebon linden
What just bounding boxes?
timid mountain
no idea
ebon linden
🤔
ebon linden
I almost just cried @timid mountain
ebon linden
I would imagine there would be a way to have models without physical geometry etc.. but I've never gotten that far.
timid mountain
yes you can have an entirely empty model
ebon linden
Because that bounding box..origamy thing mikero had didn't really work well for some things.
Origami?
Wtvr
timid mountain
mondkalb probablyt mkaes his of blue contruction paper
so it will be fine
damn can't type today either
ebon linden
Structures... MOTHER OF GOD WE'RE FINALLY GETTING STRUCUTRES WE CAN USE
timid mountain
glorious ones too
molten shard
don't forget the furniture to fill them aswell
ebon linden
AND YOU CAN GO INSIDE THEM, ITS LIKE SEX
molten shard
all the buildings have interiors tho lole
mond said that a long time ago
every building on the map has an interior
timid mountain
also with the blowing up
molten shard
yea all destructable
some even functional
such as the spotlights on towers
I'm just going to enjoy alot of these interiors for a few hours
and spend time decorating
lole
timid mountain
armasims confirmed?
lone smelt
Isn't that life servers?
ebon linden
Ikea time
timid mountain
don't touch the meatballs!
vocal pawn
is this all on dev now? It wasn't in the patch notes
timid mountain
nein
molten shard
hosting an op in group
"when does the fighting start"
oh there's no combat I spent all the time decorating
timid mountain
shooting with the guns is overrated
placing them nicely inside structure on table next to other props is much more fun
willow dragon
arma is just better sims
timid mountain
now if only somebody would make a nice dlc with dinnerplates, utensils and some houseplants
red saddle
and 200 different types of doors
mild solstice
German women?
red saddle
woofmen
lone smelt
I demand furry DLC for Arma. You don't know fear until you see a purple and white wolf fursuit charging you firing an MG.
Also we really do need woman models for Arma 4.
red saddle
sadly already exists for free
little rampart
why is it that this topic crops up almost at the same time as yesterday? 😄
lone smelt
You must rehash every subject 24 hours
little rampart
still... the time. I attritbute it to peak of hornyness ...
frail vine
please make all Community Content DLC use all the modules of base games.
so give tank interiors
little rampart
yes i cant wait to see ww1 tanks with HUDs and ww1 planes with ejector seats
willow dragon
technically there could be eject animation which would be just like getting out 😛
dry leaf
Horses with interiors and advanced flight model
willow dragon
ace ventura rhino
narrow cradle
Bicycles with radar
plush geyser
submarine with the ability to do a bombing run 🤔
keen trench
@untold oracle with no parachute?
Any case interiors are a nice touch but not strictly needed for game play
untold oracle
Well it wasn't advised @keen trench but better than exploding in a firey dead? Lol
keen trench
Was not fun being a pilot back then
untold oracle
😛
open mulch
Personally I would like when this DLCs would work like the main DLCs. So people can test the Content and the Community wouldn't be splitted. HDD Space shouldn't be a problem at all when I look at some Mod packs and so on. What do other people think about this?
sinful cape
"when I look at some Mod packs and so on" ... sure, but not everyone downloads them
everytime i am not at home, cup content fucks me hard, because it takes hours to download. always have to unsubscribe first.
besides, the ssd i'm running arma3 on is almost full. i don't want to buy a new one and i don't want to shift the game back to the hdd.
besides2, creator dlcs might have content that i simply do not want to download and have sitting on my machine. especially because i never play multiplayer, so the "community will be split!!111" issue is completely not my problem
keen trench
how will the community be split
Not every group will run GM
And even those that do wont run it Every Op
inner oyster
The biggest reason so far is that groups won't pick up the mod in the first place cos it requires the whole group to purchase it and forcibly putting monetary values to enter groups is kinda dickish
keen trench
Any case Arma community is all been split up in to many smaller sub groups
inner oyster
Basically like Apex was back in the day
It sorted itself out eventually though so I'd imagine GM would work the same way
keen trench
while no our group will run it but we wont only run it
We do 2 to 4 ops a day
And yes it will take a few months for every one in the group to get it. Some may get it donated others will wait for a Arma sale
inner oyster
Yeah which is basically why bigger groups are gonna take this more harshly than smaller ones
10 people buying it is easier than 30
once you get into massive groups it goes back around to being easy cos surely enough players buy it to run missions
narrow cradle
how will the community be split
this has been answered multiple times over the last two days 🙄
keen trench
we have group of over 100 and we will both run games with the Mod and with Out. Just like not every one wants to play star wars so we only do star wars once a week. Then again it only 20usd even those who cant afford it will get it gifted to them.
Then again i dont kno a thing about King of the Hill or Epoch and all those game modes
ashen belfry
Star Wars... You know its banned right?
keen trench
Banned from steam
keen trench
Got the documentation for this
small raft
here we go
ashen belfry
Yes, I am a moderator
keen trench
Since non of the coutless Star wars Millsim groups have been told to stop
plush geyser
i can find the different statments proving that starwars is entirely banned
ashen belfry
Since you've chosen to mention it here I have to address it.
plush geyser
but i'm entirely sure the moderator of the (unoffical) offical arma discord is right in this case
ashen belfry
Not sure how this one was missed.
Best regards,
BohemiaBeck```You are on BI's Discord speaking of prohibited content
keen trench
in passing
ashen belfry
I'm informing you that its prohibited. This is an official warning.
sinful cape
wish it were banned in cinema as well 😄
ashen belfry
That I have no control over 😉
keen trench
Dont mess with my star wars. I want to see how they blow up death star star 4
Any case back on point as i said i dont see how a paid mod will split the community any more than other all ready out there Total conversion mods
small raft
some people use RHS, some people use CUP, same idea
some people do IFA3 gamenights, some do OPTRE gamenights
keen trench
Or unsung got to get my fountain sung
sinful cape
yeh, but they argue this stuff is free, so nobody has to buy it
narrow cradle
So to recap, the issue is not "oh no mods will split the community", the issue is that it deviates from normal BI DLC practice which means we have to treat it like a paid mod instead of a regular piece of DLC. This means a lot of communities that would like to use it like they use other DLC cannot do so.
narrow cradle
No...
keen trench
i mean i all ready donate to modders who have the means to accept donation
narrow cradle
🤦🏽
small raft
you pay to download additional content, as opposed to downloading additional content for free
narrow cradle
no..........
In case you hadn't noticed, all DLCs except the map Tanoa get downloaded along with the base install, and everyone has those assets.
sinful cape
tbh, i dont see people complaining less even if it would be the normal a3 dlc behaviour. GM is a total conversion, and thus if you play on a GM server, you would be forcefully confronted with dlc adverts if you dont own it... simply because everything you use (weapons, clothes, etc) is likely GM related. i can already see everyone crying about this the same amount.
narrow cradle
They just can't use them without restrictions.
small raft
DLC as a practice is inherently that, downloadable content, it can be free or it can be priced
narrow cradle
i can already see everyone crying about this the same amount.
except that people haven't been crying the same amount with the other DLCs
sinful cape
are you serious? there were countless threads on the forum about this
keen trench
Let be honest this is a Paid Mod not a DLC. Does not mean it is bad or good but it is a Mod. A very big and a very good looking mod and i dont mind paying for this level of content.
small raft
mods inherently are free, and they also are downloadable content, and they are made by the community
ashen belfry
I think we should just copy paste every conversation from the last 2 days because its the same thing over and over.... grr
narrow cradle
yeah...
small raft
Insanity
narrow cradle
i'm going to stop now
plush geyser
we should just get a compendium of arguments
and just post a full paragraph of them any time this discussion happens
sinful cape
well, that's what a FAQ is used for :>
ashen belfry
you create it, I'll pin it. Yeah Lexx, the problem is that people are too lazy to search for it, let alone read it.
small raft
😂
sinful cape
there was this one website were people could argue about a topic in a fancy flowchart diagram
ashen belfry
Case in point it DayZ Discord General chat (the amount of times people have to be told that LFG goes in LFG channels, despite it being in the channel description)
small raft
i don't feel like it'll split communities up
keen trench
not any more than it is
small raft
it's not automatically downloaded, it's optional to purchase and use
sinful cape
well, how much did iron front split the community when the game was released a couple years back?
it's kinda the same thing
small raft
stil totally optional
it's not like you're buying a whole new game, just an addition to the base game that you can choose to use
keen trench
well 22gb is basically a game lol
small raft
it's even under a separate section in the launcher
turbid lotus
@small raft it forces a decision on our server admins. They may want to support it, but it excludes those who don't buy it. Or they don't so those who do see no benefit.
They already said they want that content, but would feel bad forcing people off the server, which is meant to be open to all.
So as a mission dev I'm sad, because I doubt I will get to use really good looking content.
Unlike Apex, where I am free to use it without excluding anyone except on Tanoa.
small raft
it's still an optional type of content, as opposed to arma DLC thus far, it's up to servers if they want to host GM content, whereas DLC thus far is added to the base game already
turbid lotus
The server itself doesn't stop people without Apex from joining and playing otherwise.
small raft
that's how i see it
turbid lotus
Yes, but that option won't be used because it prevent people from joining.
small raft
you don't need to support it necessarily
turbid lotus
No, we don't need to, but we want to and it's a shame we can't.
keen trench
actually if a sever is running GM can it be made to stop running GM so one day we play GM and the Next we dont?
small raft
you can change the mission
keen trench
then no issue
turbid lotus
That's not how it works. You cannot join the server at all if you don't have it.
small raft
it won't kick you for missing GM since it won't be dependent on that content if the mission isn't running GM content
turbid lotus
That's not true
turbid lotus
That's the entire issue my dude. Were it like Apex it would only kick people off for that mission
keen trench
that sucks for groups who have only one sever
turbid lotus
As it is currently implemented, you are basically barred from servers running it, hence "splitting" betwern haves and have nots.
small raft
it's still an option
not a requirement
not a do it or die thing
oh well, people have different opinions, ours differ, it's nbd
dense schooner
Don’t tear me a new asshole for this but:
For a Third Part DLC being made official in arma 3 it’s doesn’t look very polished so to speak like looking at the screenshots it looks a lot like a mixture of CUP, unsung etc rather than the quality of the base arma 3 assets. I would think something this size (22GBs) it would be improved in the graphical sense by either Bohemia or the third part Company.
turbid lotus
Yes, but my.point is the options are a) use content and prevent people playing or b) don't buy good looking content.
Either is a shame tbh
small raft
it is a shame
turbid lotus
Agree, totally optional, but in a negative way.
ashen belfry
@dense schooner https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/568004920373149697/568069671404699659/cwg_fuchs_01.png?width=1243&height=708
Not CUP ish in any way
keen trench
Yeah thats not CUP
small raft
it ain't out yet either
dense schooner
I was referring more to the one with the police car where the infantry look like there straight outta Cold War Assault
keen trench
i do love the wear and tear on the seats to
ashen belfry
If you're basing it on the few public images available, you're doing yourself a disservice by forming such an opinion so early.
dense schooner
Fair enough yeah
molten shard
Dont diss my cold war assault bois, they lookin good https://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/original/1473455472-893390280.jpg
keen trench
i still have the Disk for Operation Flash point
tepid lance
Still do, too!
dense schooner
I got the disc for dragon rising but nowhere to put it
vestal lintel
In your Disc Drive silly!
dense schooner
If only I had one
vestal lintel
You have no idea how cheap used ones are right now
dense schooner
Hm
vestal lintel
I took one in to sell to a computer parts store and they offered me .50
I saw ones tagged for $2
boreal scroll
Dragon Rising? Traitor!!
random crane
thats what got me into arma 😛
muted narwhal
now it all makes sense
random crane
its a story of redemption, people like those usually 🙃
gloomy plover
if you sit in that TPz you will fall asleep...it looks soo comfortable ☺
delicate pumice
I do wish BI would reconsider allowing creators the option of producing a free low-res version. All it would require from BI, if either party is concerned by reputational harm from such content, is water-marking the game for those users when content from that CDLC is in use by the server/mission. They might see even that tiny amount of development work as a distraction from their focus on future projects but both parties will make a vastly greater sum from the whole CDLC initiative if communities can use this content without fear of excluding players who aren't willing/able/ready to buy. It makes no difference to me personally but it just seems like such a waste of potential revenue.
graceful willow
I agree with @delicate pumice
Just express it with watermarks or some notification to avoid the DayZ scandal
willow dragon
or just include this info when someone wants to download that dlc without owning it, download will be opt-in anyway.
red saddle
They already have a permanent watermark in dev branch. on bottom right
do the same. Just for creator dlc
willow dragon
I think having permanent watermark when someone close to you has DLC weapon/uniform might be an overkill
delicate pumice
Compared to not being able to join at all?
red saddle
only when mod assets are used in mission
Telling the user won't work. If he takes screenshots and shares them online
the people who look at screenshots won't know
Include a watermark on the screenshot. They'll know now
willow dragon
so maybe when someone with dlc stuff is on the screen the watermark shows up?
red saddle
That would be too computationally expensive.
Just if mission uses anything, constantly show it
delicate pumice
don't think they'd go for that, too much dev, watermark when the mission includes CDLC that you don't own.
and i'd make it large and/or opaque, so it can't be missed in screenshots.
willow dragon
I guess you're right
untold oracle
I think something like Alpha/Beta notices were would also be suitable
non-intrusive but visible
of course if that person would sit in an asset or try to use it, they get pop-ups and huge watermark anyways
little rampart
im ok with people not getting acces to stuff when not owning content
lone smelt
It’s what got me to buy the DLC I’ll tell you that much
“Oh that looks cool, it’s part of the DLC?”
willow dragon
it might not be fair to compare them, but how many people bought and played Iron Front in comparison to BAF or any other Arrowhead DLC? because it might be similar to situation with GM
surreal drift
Regarding revenue share from CDLC, is it known what "portion" Valve receive from Steam sales.
surreal drift
wow! with a chunk like that it seems strange that BI are encouraging us to wishlist the GM DLC on Steam rather than buy from their own Store.
even the GM team are referencing the Steam Store page as the focal point.
vocal pawn
well you can't wishlist things on the BI store so it doesn't work as a "remind me when this actually releases" thing
willow dragon
hmm, how many people would see if you just bought it in their store, compare that to people who see that you wishlisted.
who may buy it then
surreal drift
If i were the Creator of a DLC i'd much rather receive a 50/50 split in revenue through the BI Store, rather than giving 30% to Valve
vocal pawn
Certainly, but at the moment there is literally nothing they can tell you to do on its BI store page. There is no BI store wishlist, and you can't pre-order it.
random crane
wait so if i buy from the store directly there's no valve fee?
red saddle
100% sure that with the BI store there goes no cut to steam?
Steam is still doing the CDN and downloading stuff. So I'd imagine they'd also want a cut of that
red saddle
The revenue generated by Creator DLC is split 50/50 between the developer and Bohemia Interactive. Also note that, of all purchases on the Steam store, a portion of the revenue goes to Valve.
That's what it says
surreal drift
BI Store FTW then.
red saddle
Doesn't say that valve doesn't get a cut from BI store tho.
Atleast not clearly
surreal drift
yeah but clearly not 30%
vocal pawn
AFAIK those are the only two places to purchase it, so it seems weird that they'd specify if it applied to both
surreal drift
I guess it's just another thing that needs clarified before the 29th...
willow dragon
that was probably answered already, as people on reddit have been recommending buying on BI store for some time
little rampart
this was always the case, with base game and dlc too - bought every dlc and every one of them from BI store
keen trench
does the BI stor offer Sales?
sinful cape
every once in a while, yes
bought all the dlcs there, simply because all the money will go to BI
and it costs the same as steam
hoary wyvern
Anyone else pissed that the new DLC will be required?
or know why the sudden reversal on approach to arma dlc?
arctic seal
not me
hoary wyvern
its going to fracture communities even more
arctic seal
don't think so
hoary wyvern
100% will since you cant load the content to a server without all players owning it
complete BS imo
hoary wyvern
you like having half the players in a server?
hoary wyvern
i mean im prob getting it, im just mad cause not everyone wants it in small communities which means lots of frustration
why not just add it like all other DLC?
free to look, but NO touching
better for advertising assets imo
which will result in more sales in long run
they must hate money at BI
arctic seal
well, if you want to play a mission on tanoa, you also need the DLC
¯_(ツ)_/¯
what difference dies it make?
hoary wyvern
yea exactly...sadly many dont have that one as well
but least you can still load that assets full time and have no issues
open mulch
BI thinks, that it would better this way, because to keep the file-size small on the base game, also Creator-DLC won't fit maybe in the 2035 setting of Arma 3.
hoary wyvern
i can understand the base game file size argument....any idea on how big dlc is?
molten shard
22gb
hoary wyvern
ouch
open mulch
Personally i would wish it should work like the other DLCs already present in Arma
But that's only my opinion.
arctic seal
i don't see GM as a DLC. it's more like an extension to the game, like OA was to A2 imo
BI would do good if they wouldn't call it a DLC
open mulch
I mean also, it could be a better advertisement for potential Buyers. Because they can see and test the Quality.
arctic seal
and all the whining would stop...
open mulch
It has basically more Content then Apex.
molten shard
from the mod
hoary wyvern
yea, soo many players join in games with DLC, and see units that instigate them buying it
i mean...i get the size argument...which if that is the primary reasoning thats fine. not ideal, but understandable
molten shard
arma 2 worked just fine like this, and plenty of other games already operate on this model
arctic seal
OA?
open mulch
Yeah but i already read complains, that vehicles looks like CUPish (The Volkswagen). When they had the chance to check themselves in the Arsenal or Virtual Garage it would maybe change there mindsets.
Personally i will buy the DLC as soon as possible.
hoary wyvern
yea im prob same....i just fear many others wont...which means tough decisions for server owners that want to utilize it
least with other dlc, we all could live in harmony
open mulch
Yep it should work like Apex Expansion, you can see and use the Assets on Maps like Altis, Malden and as far as you want to play on Weferlingen you need to buy. But you can see other Assets.
molten shard
yea but who wants to dowload 22 gb for something they cant use
open mulch
Personally i wouldn't have a problem with it.
But thats only my opinion. I was also download APEX-Content before i was buy Apex already
The only thing i can agree is the fact, that the first Creator-DLC won't fit in 2035 setting
steady nest
@hoary wyvern or know why the sudden reversal on approach to arma dlc? This isn't sudden, was announced over a year ago
molten shard
it's funny that everyone i've seen complain about people won't buy it, always end with saying personally they're going to
lole
maybe it will be more popular than you imagine
open mulch
@molten shard i just repeat what people are saying, even in my Community 😉
I would bet at the end, most people will have GM and other Creator-DLCs
molten shard
good ending for all
hearty arrow
wants to say something but instead he will be just lurking in shadows fixing something
ebon linden
Back to the basement!
The biggest reason so far is that groups won't pick up the mod in the first place cos it requires the whole group to purchase it and forcibly putting monetary values to enter groups is kinda dickish
This point has always seemed silly to me. You have to pay for Arma to play too.
open mulch
It is a hobby and many hobbies cost money.
ebon linden
maybe it will be more popular than you imagine Yes, I'd wager almost anyone who plays Arma regularly will buy it. I think it will be the best content update since OA.
I'd even wager that the people who are complaining about it either a) don't really play Arma anymore or b) will eventually buy it when everyone else does.
open mulch
I was made a calculation back in a german Community Forum where people already complain about Creator-DLCs
Using Arma 3 current prices and a lifetime of 6 full years - Base Game + DLCs + Creator-DLC = ~120€
That would be a yearly price around 20€ or 1,67€ per month, or 0,05€ per Day for a Hobby :))
ebon linden
Yeah, people dumping thousands of hours into a game and bitching about paying a little
open mulch
You mean DCS where a Module (Only one Plane) are up to 80€
arctic seal
yep
open mulch
But on the other hand, even there you get most time what you pay for. It's a decision how much you want to pay for your "Hobby"
For me the most important Question, when should we be able to pay the bill and test it on Dev-Branch? 😄
narrow cradle
Ah we're back to where the argument gets reduced to the bit about the $20 payment, "just pay up lulz" and implications that everyone that can pay for Arma can also pay for DCS DLCs, or that there is a significant majority of DCS players that shells out 80$ for DLC regularly, instead of buying stuff for $7 on sale...
molten shard
So players will either pay the 20
or buy when its on sale
the argument is a significant amount of people will probably buy it
narrow cradle
probably, in an unknown period of time. From a community perspective, the issue is that no one wants to force everyone to buy it, nor is that realistic
open mulch
That's the reason why so many people want, that Creator-DLCs should work like other Arma 3 DLCs before
narrow cradle
No, that's not how it works. We're an open community, we can't guarantee nothing other than the player base has the base game
molten shard
no that's not what i mean
i mean you dont force them
they will buy the dlc on their own free will
hey look at that 70% of us have it
narrow cradle
Yeah, and until then there won't be many people that have it, means we can't use it for a while
And we really want to use it, because it's great
ebon linden
Ah we're back to where the argument gets reduced to the bit about the $20 payment, "just pay up lulz" and implications that everyone that can pay for Arma can also pay for DCS DLCs, or that there is a significant majority of DCS players that shells out 80$ for DLC regularly, instead of buying stuff for $7 on sale...
Again, best content update since OA. It basically turns it into an entirely new game.
narrow cradle
That's besides the point, no one is arguing that it isn't worth the 20$ or isn't very high quality
The point is that following the Apex model of distribution would make it much easier to integrate it into community missions.
Right now it's harder, which is unfortunate.
open mulch
Thats what i was want to say.
narrow cradle
Sure, maybe in 6 months enough people would have bought it where we will feel comfortable saying that it's required, but even then, any new player that turns up, or an old player playing after a few months/years will suddenly be unable to play.
So we'll have to continue to be careful as to how we utilise the content.
With Apex or other DLCs its much easier, just have to avoid Tanoa, or make sure vehicle crew have the DLC.
ebon linden
Using the assets without paying for it. Sure, that would make a lot of people happy.
I was quite pissed when I prepurchased Apex only to learn that I couldn't actually use the content to make terrain with. It stayed that way for about a whole damned year before they changed EBO to PBO. And then in the same turn, they made all the content available to everyone else that didn't pay for it.
narrow cradle
Yeah, but a lot of people tried it out, liked it and bought it
But it meant we could safely use the assets wherever
ebon linden
Except all the ones that realized all they'd get from Apex was the terrain.
molten shard
their will be more than enough resources for people to see if they like it
narrow cradle
No, even then, because people that played with us frequently got tired of the watermarks
Or wanted to play on Tanoa, since we started using it more
molten shard
then why wouldnt people buy the dlc that's cheaper than apex
to play your missions
like when you played tanoa
narrow cradle
But it still took a while before everyone had it, and even today new players turn up without Apex
^
I'm not going to speculate on individual buying decisions, a lot of people still don't have the other DLCs like helicopters and marksmen
But this is the community perspective, and it seems pretty consistent whether it's a smaller, open, vanilla Arma group like ours, or Shack Tactical
hoary wyvern
YUP, SuicideKing nailed it
take notes BI, your community is giving you great feedback...please use it
molten shard
At this point we can only speculate, I'm sure BI wants to see how it plays out before changing decisions
ebon linden
So then, as a community, if you think it would be bad to make a requirement, don't run missions with it. I understand what everyone is saying, but the answer seems pretty straight forward to me. It's practically like buying and playing a new game. If your community isn't committed to moving to a new game, then don't move.
Honestly, I think this kind of debate could go round and round until it's released. Once it's released, then we'll really see what happens.
obtuse karma
The content looks nice
waxen lynx
As content creator you usually want as many people as possible to enjoy your work first and foremost, and in this case best sales in addition.
Does paid only version achieve both - obviously not. Most likely not even the second.
So the choice is obvious.
turbid lotus
@ebon linden suspect that is the decision most will make to remain inclusive (especially open servers/communities), which is a huge shame as the content looks fantastic and could be a huge benefit.
From my perspective writing missions for a community there are a whole bunch of parts of this DLC I would love to use, but probably won't get a chance to.
ebon linden
Yeah I suspect that will change a bit after its been out for a little while
turbid lotus
I honestly hope so
ebon linden
If you owned Arma 2 but didn't have Operation Arrowhead... you were missing out on a whole lot.
I came in with the dayz mod wave, couldn't even play that without OA
turbid lotus
Yup. It's just putting our guys in an interesting position. Add cool new content but potentially exclude people, or leave it alone and miss out.
Sure, most of our guys do have every DLC and will do eventually, but it's not ideal.
I'm sure there were decisions made we won't have visibility of, which is why they wanted to change.
That said, I can't help but feel there would be a better solution. Apex seems at face value to be a decent comprise where you can still join servers, use some of the kit, and ultimately only miss out on Tanoa missions.
narrow cradle
that led to our community splitting in the A2 days, when we tried it with mods
so let us just say that we are skeptical of that approach
Not to mention, this is just the first CDLC, it's going to become worse once more content is added
Maybe some of it is F U T U R E stuff and people won't be that interested
keen trench
we dont know the price range or size of the other DLCs
narrow cradle
that's irrelevant, like i've mentioned before a number of times
we don't even run mods that can't be run client side (and very few at that), for the same reason - it adds barriers to entry that we don't want to add
keen trench
Wow yeah our community is very different. We have 9 separate Modsets with minimum 2 ops a day. So for us this is not a big deal. But i can see how small groups or groups with only 1 or 2 ops a week may suffer
wraith sleet
Wait a second. My favorite mods will now be paid?
vocal pawn
That's very explicitly not what's happening
wraith sleet
I like the idea of giving money to talented persons. But this may affect my gameplay very hard.
vocal pawn
Perhaps you missed the word "not" in what I said
quoth Bohemia: Creator DLC are either completely new projects or existing projects that can scale up due to being published as DLC. However, it will never replace something which was previously free.
tepid lance
Also consider this: We were able to properly dig in and commit to creating GM to the current scale and quality by doing this. Otherwise we simply couldn't justify spending so much time after work hours doing this.
GM as presented last week would simply not exist if it wasn't for this.
open mulch
@sinful cape Mondkalb and GalComT are both employed fulltime by Bohemia Interactive Simulations (Not Studios), so this Work was done in the free time.
tepid lance
Yes, essentially this meant we worked two fulltime jobs over the past year. It was very strenuous and we're very happy with taking a bit time off now that the first release is bagged. 😃
dry leaf
Oof
steady bison
Im still waiting for the Arma 3 Optimization DLC
knotty ore
ah that one removes all textures and you can only run VR with one of those textureless VR characters
and also you got 1 block gun
and no sounds
steady bison
thats right
tepid lance
Wait, but the recommended HW specs says:
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 / AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series with 2 GB VRAM
😄
stable raft
I don't know what to do
I can'y buy the DLC
I want it desperatly tough
what do I do
knotty ore
you wait till you earn the money
cedar chasm
Go mow some lawns.
muted narwhal
but only when breaking someone's else's eula/ip rights
ebon linden
but hey, you're less likely to be shot at or getting into real trouble 😏
You'll have the modding community wanting to reach through the internet to stab you, but that's probably about it. ezpz
Can't wait to see all the scrubs that try stealing things from GM
🍿
molten shard
i can see the cop cars getting taken
or the vw
for life serbers
imma keep watch
narrow cradle
But GM isn't out yet how can you buy it
waxen lynx
for reference
while most only seem to refer only to the terrain (using Tanoa as reference),
personally i'd say the playable content (campaigns/missions) would need to be exclusive too (with maybe a few "demo" purpose exceptions). maybe even the custom RP
as for assets - how does A3 work again?
do you get the ads for all assets, or is there more than ads - plus wasnt there also some vehicle crew lock?
one aspect many people also seem to forgot or neglect is that BI did a very poor job with explaining the LITE approach in A2:OA DLCs (and 64x64 was way too low) - A3 has a far better system in place to explain players why DLC content is limited or exclusive (with room for further improvement)
narrow cradle
ads + lock, map and SP content require ownership @waxen lynx
waxen lynx
vehicle lock is for combat positions only, right? so no cargo - what about secondary gunners and FFV?
narrow cradle
yup
no lock for FFV
And yeah, I agree with personally i'd say the playable content (campaigns/missions) would need to be exclusive too
narrow cradle
demo showcase thing would probably drive a bunch of sales too
willow dragon
Aren't showcases locked for BI dlcs too?
steady nest
@willow dragon Correct in the case of Jets and Tanks' Showcases
narrow cradle
yeah, that's why i think it's reasonable for that to be the case for GM too
plush geyser
(22GB)
steady nest
Note that the vehicle lock/weapon lock for BI's first-party-DLC 'combat positions'/small arms does not apply to Virtual Garage/Virtual Arsenal -- nor do the ads -- and you're not barred from trying out said vehicles/weapons in the Editor with said ads although the lock applies once you get out of /eject from/switch from the crew position and/or drop the weapon from your inventory
lethal canyon
made me realize.. since it's all or nothing... is there no showcase?
since y'know.. showcases were meant to try out DLC locked stuff right?
steady nest
Seeing as said showcases were themselves paywalled for Jets and Tanks... however for the purposes of Global Mobilization - Cold War Germany you'd be correct that no showcase has been mentioned by Mondkalb/GalComT/the official blurb, only a ten (10) scenario SP campaign plus thirteen (13) co-op scenarios and four (4) adversarial scenarios
wraith sleet
I agree that LITE would be preferable. Indeed BI simply failed to inform the players on how the model works back in A2 days (I think it took me probably two years to figure out that blurry textures were a feature and not something on part of my PC) but the concept itself was pretty good.
willow dragon
I haven't played arrowhead with lite versions, so how did downloading work? It must be opt in with clear warning so people aren't confused
wild tree
PMC/BAF/Czechs were very low res
so ppl often thought that game itself is low res
(arma free version had cherno in low res version)
willow dragon
I know, but were they downloaded automatically?
wild tree
if i remember correctly yes
willow dragon
I see
wild tree
i think with patches but not sure in 100% it was long time ago lol
waxen lynx
it was part of the core game and coming with patches yes
dense schooner
I take it this is gonna be apart of the same arma season pass as tanks etc?
cedar chasm
The bundle?
steady nest
It is not
rose gazelle
@dense schooner Nope. It's separate from those bundles, gonna cost $22.99/19.99€/£16.99.
dense schooner
Rip
ebon linden
It was not created by the Arma BI devs
waxen dune
had to buy bigger arma ssd just to have space for the new dlc 
cedar chasm
<- 2TB SSD
waxen dune
I had an old 220gb ssd I used for my arma 3/work drive
but its full so had to buy 1tb m.2 ssd 😄
ebon linden
Yeah Im running out of room for my p drive
waxen dune
https://i.imgur.com/CoVtVBn.png @arctic seal
Needed a bigger ssd for arma, hdd wouldn’t cut it 😛
waxen dune
😄 Also no more tetris with the pdrive and mods 🙏
shut hornet
New SSD installed, A3 set up, getting ready for GM... 😄
ebon linden
Are we there yet?
cedar chasm
I hear there is a 5 minute delay everytime someone asks
steady nest
I wonder if the all-or-nothing DLC method will at all thwart some of the people who might try to rip Creator DLC contents both for A3 and DayZ...
zenith dirge
Is there a price set yet for the first Creator DLC?
sly thunder
@zenith dirge $23
zenith dirge
Sweet, thanks
sly thunder
np
waxen dune
@steady nest could a creator release a dlc then release a low res version as a mod like 6 months later signed with the same keys? 
That gives people a bit more freedom and it might push sales a bit
I know many people just bought PMC dlc back in a2 just for better textures while playing just dayz mod
steady nest
If they even knew that that was a thing
wraith sleet
How much will it cost and will we have AK-47s AK-74s AK-74M AKUs etc.
molten shard
it'll have the mpi-k and all the variants
which is the east german manufactured models of ak
molten shard
22.99
i thought
Question 4:
How much does it cost?
A: It costs $22.99/19.99€/£16.99, but there will be sales in the future
in the GM faq:
stable raft
OBviously im going 22.99
sinful cape
due to no dependencies allowed, every creators dlc that uses an AK, will have to make their own version of it. this is such a waste of resources
makes me wonder if it's possible to strike deals here to share assets
tepid lance
Certainly possible.
sinful cape
that's good to know
small raft
to be fair there's like a million different AK variants IRL 😂
wraith sleet
I'm buying it just for P1 and civilian cars
sinful cape
@small raft it's not just about AKs. same with other assets. want a g3 for your stuff? there is already one and you can check if the quality suits your needs.
small raft
was joking
red saddle
@steady nest as far as I heard the new DLC will be ebo, so no problem with rippers, atleast not early on
sinful cape
eh, ebo is easy to open
red saddle
No
sinful cape
even if it's a new version, takes a couple days and then the tools are there
small raft
you aren't allowed to open them
red saddle
takes a couple days and then the tools are there We'll see about that
sinful cape
i'm sure rippers don't care if it's allowed or not 😄
red saddle
Last time only a single guy published his unpacker. He has a new job and is very busy lately. So chances are he'll have no time or won't care
That's atleast my hope ^^
no
small raft
any place with ripped assets won't be able to go all "but we made it ourselves" is my point if any assets are originally from an ebo
plus its extremely hard to rip from an ebo
red saddle
US defence contractor but that's offtopic I guess 😄
Also all the stuff in the DLC will be protected by BI's legal department. So rips will be taken care of swiftly
wraith sleet
Hmmm VBS
narrow cradle
In addition to that, one of our main targets was to make GM as mod-friendly as possible so that mod creators and communities out there can make use of our content very easily through simple config/retex addons. And by doing so, make GM interesting for more than just the Arma player base interested in German content.
https://arma3.com/news/report-in-vertexmacht-global-mobilization
Which makes it a bit strange that BI's gone the route it has, w.r.t. how they've handled distribution 🤔
vital dome
Still no answers from BI about the Feedback, i think they dont care 😢
vital dome
Busy with what ? 🤔
red saddle
preparing the release of GM 😄
surreal drift
remember also good friday /easter monday holidays
steady nest
@vital dome If it was basically 'make GM like your previous DLCs'...
willow dragon
Will there be a way to enable creators DLC without using launcher, for example with startup parameters? (launcher doesn't work on proton yet)
tepid lance
Yes, just launch the folder via -mod param I believe.
willow dragon
Thanks 😃
arctic seal
do not cross post please, and see answer in #global_mobilization
abstract cove
Sorry. Thank you.
wispy lynx
20€ is way, way too much for a dlc which everyone on the server needs if they want to play.
It may be good for solo players or players who play with a small group, but big communities with over ten people really lose in this
willow dragon
22GB of quality content though
open mulch
20€ for more Content as Apex delivered which costs 30€ and if you want to play on Tanoa or use some of the fancy Weapons/Uniforms/Vehicles the Community was also need to buy it.
wispy lynx
I understand it should be good quality. But when it only covers one faction in one era it doesnt give much in terms of variance
open mulch
It Covers 3 Factions in 1980s (West-Germany, East-Germany and Denmark) on the inner German border.
wispy lynx
None of which have seen war
open mulch
But the Equipment used was see already some Battles
And you can make Scenarios like "What if"
wispy lynx
I know the quality is good and it gives a lot of content, but looking from a community mission maker point of view it just doesnt give enough for a big community to be worth the buy
open mulch
Really? You can make Scenarios where Cold War was go hot. East invades West, West invades East and so on.
wispy lynx
And I fear this will stop modmakers making mods
open mulch
I don't think so, there are already Mod-Makers they stated that they keep their Development free
wispy lynx
I dont really care for cold war scenarios
open mulch
And for GM, the Content was developed to be Modable.
wispy lynx
Modable, yes, but you still have to buy it
And none of this arma 2 low poly stuff, but strict server kick policy if you dont have it
weak lion
Well there you have it, you don‘t care about cold war scenarios so just don‘t buy it
If it‘s not appealing to you
The price is justified looking at the extreme quality of the assets and map
I agree that the policy isn‘t the best, but that‘s Bohemia
wispy lynx
- It will set the price standard for the next dlc 2. It will probably demotivate modmakers
weak lion
How will it demotivate modmakers?
wispy lynx
If there's money to be made, why bother doing it for free?
weak lion
And it won‘t. If another CDLC is smaller content-wise, maybe around 8-10gb it most definitely will cost less
Because you will need to invest a lot of work into making everything so good that it passes Bohemia QA
Most modders are doing that for a hobby afaik, GM started out as a hobby as well but they had to work on it 6-8 hours a day
open mulch
I don't think CDLC will stop free Mods, one thing that stops free mods are monetized servers and content steeling..
Or reuploads on Workshop from people they think they can do what they want.
wispy lynx
I know the lifecancer started all this
open mulch
I see a chance in 3rd Party DLCs for Arma to grow and maybe extend the life of Arma itself.
red saddle
If there's money to be made, why bother doing it for free?
It's not really easy to just make a mod for CDLC.
The GM team has been working on it since 2014 and basically full time in the last year.
You don't just decide "meh free mods is bad, I'm just gonna make a DLC now" because that won't work unless you already have a big team and already have content that you were already working on
open mulch
Only the way (optional DLC) is one thing i personally dislike. I would be fan if that would work like other Arma 3
wispy lynx
But the mods people actually want to play are the mods with big team
Like 3cb and rhs
red saddle
Well they would need to make something absolutely new from scratch
open mulch
RHS will still be free and 3CB also stated that their Mods will be free and developed in future for free
red saddle
if CDLC didn't exist they simply wouldn't do that
@open mulch they cannot sell their mods anyway. So yes. They have to be free, even if they wouldn't want them to be free they couldn't do anything about it
wispy lynx
But question is do they want to develop them further
open mulch
Yes one rule of CDLCs are, that what already exist for free, can't be hidden behind a paywall aka CDLC
red saddle
Withour CDLC the RHS/3CB team wouldn't just start a huge new project with aim to becoming a DLC.
So with CDLC we maybe get a additional big mod, without CDLC we get nothing.
So no harm done
molten shard
it took the dev team of GM like a year of working 8 hours a day on top of another job to meet the standards of BI
not anyone can make a cdlc
oblique fable
well to be honest those arent that high 😛
wispy lynx
I agree
molten shard
the bi standards arent high?
wispy lynx
No, the hours
molten shard
oh
well making a mod your second full time job for a year isnt easy
i dont like to work 14-16 hours a day
wispy lynx
But there's still no way you could get a community with 50-100 active players to buy a dlc for 20€, when many of them still play on their 2014 potatocomputer
Let alone new players just starting arma
tribal folio
My 2014 potatocomputer ran Arma alright
wraith sleet
It is kind of sad. What it does to existing communities is either ensure they all buy it or none of them do, we are still trending towards none because only some of us want it.
wispy lynx
"Buy 60€ worth of dlc and you can join our server!"
open mulch
On the other Hand, DLCs can also be the way, new people will find their way into Arma because of the Setting.
molten shard
i dont understand the all or none, you dont have to set is as a prerequisite for every game you play
just have special events
wraith sleet
I would have honestly paid for RHS had it been a CDLC. My group talked at the time that modern equipment should have been BI's first DLC.
tribal folio
(Go-karts are totally modern)
molten shard
lole
molten shard
I appreciate what 3 brought to the table
wraith sleet
It can't ever be the main game if everyone doesn't own. Unlike other communities 100% of our players play our primary weekly game. So we can set a secondary game on the secondary server sometime mid week but it just isn't worth it for a few players. So that means the few that want it see no value from it, so we end up not buying it
molten shard
but maybe in a year or so
people will all buy in
like apex
after the first sale we'll se alot alot of people with it
open mulch
That's the way i think it will work. Also maybe because Modder build upon CDLC Assets and people want to play this Mods
molten shard
yes
when people buy it they'll already talk about the content
but when updates and stuff release
it'll keep bringing it into the limelight
and more people will want it
ashen belfry
"Buy 60€ worth of dlc and you can join our server!"<- This is part of the problem with new groups. If a community grows organically, they all buy in. All too often, people create servers and empty communities first in an attempt to lure players.
open mulch
Even with this first CDLC Arma 3 will be as Cheap as 120€ for a guy which buy the Game this day, when a Sale kick in this will be cheaper. Look at other Games, you Pay for the Base-Game + Season Pass or fancy Collectors Edition up to 120€
And Arma has a longer lifespan as games like BF1 or BF5 because of Modding, furthur CDLCs and Support by BI itself.
Thats my opinion and i am one of the people, which need to count every € 2 times.
ashen belfry
But lets be realistic, the Arma 3 Apex Edition (not Apex DLC) was as low as €20.39
Anyone on a limited budget, with proper planning, can pick it up at significant discounts. This applies to the DLC as well.
open mulch
Yep. the 120€ will be the Price if you buy today without any Sale.
And Steam btw. i feel has ever Month a big Sale
Summer Sale, Winter Sale, Haloween Sale, etc...
And the price is rounded up by me a little bit ^^
ashen belfry
I will be picking up 2 copies of GM next week. One for me, and one for one of our deserving (private) group members. This is how communities achieve near 100% uptake of a DLC.
open mulch
Yep you say it, that should be easy to be done by a real Community where people act together.
Even on my Community i will buy an extra copie of GM for a Student which hasn't enough money upon release to buy it directly.
wispy lynx
Our playerbase has dropped from 100+ twice a week (2017) to around 30-50 once a week
Making the community to buy more stuff will decrease the amount of players even more
Squad only costs 40€ and even less with sale and has full mod support
ashen belfry
Go play Squad then. No one is begging anyone to stay. I paid €60.00 for the Supporter Edition and got every DLC in the price (way back in 2013).
We have ~100 players and have maintained it since 2001.
The CDLC "Just Makes Sense"
open mulch
What's your Unit @ashen belfry when this question is allowed?
The Community and You don't need to buy this CDLC to play Arma in future. You don't need to start to have a DLC up on release if you think it won't work for the Community. Thats a Decision every Community needs to make themselves. The CDLC is good, brings nice content and the price is worth!
wispy lynx
I just mentioned Squad when talking about having to pay 120€ for a game
Congratulations FM you belong to a rare community, dont expect every community to work the same way
open mulch
Why you complain about a CDLC if your Community won't buy it entirely? I don't read that people must be buy this DLC at all
red saddle
Again. We had this discussion over a dozen times already 😄
TLDR people are sad that they now get a useless DLC that they can't play because they can't force their community to get it
ashen belfry
@open mulch SBP Clan
devout turtle
maybe a pinned summary of key points would help direct people to more useful conversation? So far this channel is a bit of a waste of time.
ashen belfry
They never read them, just as they don't read the FAQ
open mulch
Even FAQ Questions are asked every day again ^^ so you think this would work 😄
devout turtle
would save people reaching the same eventual conclusions after protracted rants
ashen belfry
Just as they don't even lok at the Mod page
devout turtle
then you can say "read the pin"