intolerable is what it is :/
#creator_dlc_discussion
timid mountain
sinful cape
i'm curious how this stuff will affect multiplayer communities. by nature of how they are working right now, i assume 3rd party dlc multiplayer stuff will have much lower sales
simply because they wont be used / played all that much, because everyone will need to have it
welp, or the sales increase, because a couple folks inside a gaming community will throw in money so everyone else can get it... or is forced to get it. might drive up sales as well.
shrewd ruin
I think when the dlc is β¬20 people wonβt through money at it so everyone in community who canβt afford it can play.
digital kernel
Not entirely sure if this has been answered already but what happens if in a vanilla mission, person x with the dlc pulls a dlc weapon from the arsenal, person y doesnt have the dlc, is person y kicked, or is it just treated like a missing mod? Ie just not there on y's screen.
sinful cape
can't even play together
a workaround would be if the dlc creators release a low-res free version on the workshop, similar to how arma2 handled dlcs
this way everyone can at least download the low-res version. communities can play together and the people who buy the dlcs will get non-ugly graphics and sound effects
wild guess -- that's probably why iron front is only releasing low res assets?
red saddle
@digital kernel BI didn't say yet what happens. I think they aren't even sure how to do that themselves yet
digital kernel
Gotcha. Thanks for the answer. Really hope a compromise is sorted out. The dlc looks fantastic.
red saddle
I see 3 solutions.
- invisbile gun
- unavailable in arsenal if server didn't load the mod
- immediately kick anyone who doesn't have the dlc
I hope for 1.
untold oracle
or go the Apex way
sinful cape
what's the apex way?
red saddle
Well we know they won't
untold oracle
clearly, but still no proper reason why not π
red saddle
Crap I wanted to sleep 2 hours ago.
digital kernel
Yea. I'm not looking forward to possibly having to restrict all the items from the dlc in the arsenal if 3 is the case. That's gonna take a dumb amount of time.
little rampart
the weapon wont be available in arsenal, because the server decides what is available and what not propably
so the situation wont exist
dlc enabled -> server requires it to play -> weapons available. Dlc not available noone can use the dlc weapon
vocal pawn
The confusion arises from us being unsure about the first part. We don't know that DLC enabled will make the server require it even if there are no DLC assets in the mission.
sinful cape
well why would you run the server with the mod enabled if it isnt used?
digital kernel
There was a pinned message I'm pretty sure saying that if a server has the dlc loaded but is on a vanilla mission the player wouldnt need to own the DLC.
sinful cape
(i dont play mp, so i know nothing)
red saddle
"because the server decides what is available and what not propably" since when?
Server doesn't do that with any other mods. You get access to things in arsenal which you have locally. Doesn't care if server has it
vocal pawn
So that we can play DLC stuff on the same server as non-DLC stuff (for people who don't have DLC) without restarting the server between missions (@ lexx)
untold oracle
can't we just do petition to make it Apex-like? π π
red saddle
^ not known yet @vocal pawn
sinful cape
what do you mean with "apex-like"?
vocal pawn
@ jakdax well, if a vanilla mission is loaded, a player without the DLC joins, and an existing player pulls out an unrestricted arsenal and picks a DLC weapon - there is the situation arising.
sinful cape
apex right now works like any other released dlc
red saddle
I read that BI is thinking about putting it on a seperate branch. like dev branch.
Might be that if server is started with DLC. Only DLC owners can connect no matter what's running.
We got no info about that yet.
Forum post from Homesick said "if DLC is enabled you cannot join if you don't have it" but what does "enabled" mean? We don't know.
sinful cape
the part in the faq about "3rdpd can't depend on any arma dlc" is what worries me the most right now. the way i understand it, it means you can't use any non-vanilla assets, not even apex stuff.
untold oracle
@sinful cape that people with and without DLC can play together, just not use all the stuff, but can still see it
sinful cape
@untold oracle they already stated that won't happen. in fact, they already said that a year ago when the whole thing was announced
it requires everyone to download all the files
untold oracle
they said that a year ago, where?
sinful cape
somewhere in the 10 pages third-party dlc thread
untold oracle
well yeah, Apex does too (except terrain), that's the only way to do that, and it does annoying messages if you don't own something, which is great advertisement π
sinful cape
but you can't force all third party dlc files on every player. that will end in a shitstorm
wraith sleet
Considering they said they would be releasing a branch that would suggest you can have it optional on the server side (would have personally preferred a mod line entry frankly)
So it only forces on that server but it is far from ideal as it means many existing communities will need 2 servers, one with the content and one without
untold oracle
@sinful cape why not? Apex does that... and it's not that big if you keep map with map objects separate
sinful cape
because i - for once - would not want all gm files on my hdd
a3 in itself is already very big
untold oracle
it's a lot smaller than most big AAA games today
sinful cape
- mods makes it even bigger. + all possible third party dlc (even without terrain) will bloat it more
wraith sleet
Especially if they are all going to be as comprehensive as this mod is, it cant be small
sinful cape
just imagine having shitty internet and suddenly third-party dlcs that you never use decide to update.
untold oracle
that's already the case with all mods and current size π
wraith sleet
That is just modern gaming, the games are getting massive. If you have bad internet it is kind of hard to game already.
untold oracle
and they said there won't be many Creator DLCs because the entry level is very high and it's hard to get approved and released
sinful cape
yes. that's why i constantly opt-out of all CUP stuff, etc. as soon as i'm not at my home pc, it becomes a very annoying thing to deal with.
untold oracle
it would solve the main issue people have with this
tepid lance
catching up here on what blud already touched on. I have prepared proxy objects to enable you to create terrains. They're downgraded versions of the models to help you use them, but not worth packing and using on their own for their low quality.
wraith sleet
That was quick!
tepid lance
Its a 20 meg DL to get you into a state where you can pack terrains for GM. How you build the terrain is up to you. I highly recommend a 3d editor like 3den or Object Placer (Which I helped out with) π
vocal pawn
fwiw my A3 install, which has RHS and CUP and stuff, plus dev branch, is smaller than my Destiny 2 install. I honestly don't think making Creator DLC assets global downloads would be as critical of a space issue as BI thinks.
sinful cape
players have already criticized just having to download the existing dlc.
if folks aren't even willing to download them...
vocal pawn
well with all due respect that's a stupid criticism
knotty ore
the thing is whatever they do they cant please everyone
so might as well just go with the current plan
untold oracle
but they can do what's good for the community instead of some people's internets π
I expect people to disagree with me on this fully
sinful cape
like i said before, just release a low-res mod version for free on the workshop
it's the same thing
untold oracle
I'd be very cool with that also
knotty ore
who will pay for making those low res free mods
vocal pawn
"other plans also have downsides" doesn't necessarily mean this plan is the best plan
knotty ore
that make people not buy the high res mods
untold oracle
it can be automated, remove all but last LOD
sinful cape
i dunno. how much work is it to scale down textures to 32x32 px?
tepid lance
I assume the low res would be a auto-generated variant of the real thing. How BI did DLCs for Arma 2 OA
sinful cape
yes
sinful cape
it allows everyone in the community to play on such servers, but you get the good quality stuff (and additional things like sp mission or whatever) if you buy the dlc.
tepid lance
turned about 2gb of map assets into 20mb π
frail epoch
A2OA DLC system was fantastic
vocal pawn
I really wish they had done the low res option instead of what they've chosen to do now (with Creators, I mean, standard A3 DLC was fine too)
frail epoch
me too
but even the nag screens are basically fine, compared to what's basically a required mod
wraith sleet
It would solve all the other issues raised as well, avoids segmentation and it ensures it just works with 1 server. But they didn't unfortunately they went with a differing strategy for A3
sinful cape
uh, but the a3 variant also didn't split the community
the third party dlc variant will do so if there isn't a version for everyone to download
vocal pawn
the original A3 strategy was acceptable, it's this new twist on it that's all wrong
untold oracle
I'd be perfectly fine with either solution @tepid lance make it happen π
exactly my point entire day @sinful cape ! thank you
wraith sleet
Technically this one acts more like a mod than a DLC, its required client and server as far as we know with all assets locked down. So the end result is a lot more restrictive than BIs existing DLC strategy, it is more accurately a paid mod.
timid mountain
no
vocal pawn
it bugs me a lot that when they first announced this new angle, everyone was like "guys, this is a bad idea", and BI did absolutely nothing to address it and just carried on. It's an approach that has bitten other studios in the past and I don't really know why BI has decided to do it.
timid mountain
then the jets dlc is also a paid mod
sinful cape
i dunno, jets dlc is tied directly into the game
vocal pawn
I think BrightCandle is talking about how it technically works in terms of DLC requirements, not in terms of third-party involvement
wraith sleet
I was kind of surprised that they didn't know the answer to the question of whether they were going to ensure the mod continued to function despite potential future patches. I mean that is pretty fundamental when you are talking about selling mods, it come out in a big way with Bethesda so you would have thought it came up in the discussions on how to do this
sinful cape
3rd party dlc is pretty much "paid mods", but i don't see a problem in that, like, at all.
untold oracle
I can play on a server with Jets DLC without owning it, just can't use the assets, this Creator DLC is not like that
paid mods is fine, if done correctly
wraith sleet
Technically it is more like a mod, the DLCs have got some special engine support and behaviour in the Steam client etc.
sinful cape
paid mods have a bad reputation, because everyone thinks of $10 weapon skins
red saddle
DLCs special steam support is checking if the dlc steamid is owned by the user. Pretty sure Creator DLC's will do that too
I hope they do
vocal pawn
I'm perfectly fine with BI paying modders to make vanilla-quality content for them, especially if it means content in the downtime until A4. My issue is with the DLC behaving like a mod instead of a DLC.
wraith sleet
They have a bad reputation after bethesda tried to release it via Steam and had not taken account of any of the issues.
sinful cape
well, bethesda sucks. big news π
wraith sleet
But now BI is wading into the same issues and hasn't got an answer either.
sinful cape
even right now they are selling super expensive armor skins and shit like that for lots of money. folks made fun of horse armor years ago, but this is much, much worse.
untold oracle
what is much worse now?
sinful cape
bethesdas paid mods
ashen belfry
"A fool and his money are soon parted", but lets not compare skins and horse armour to Arma
untold oracle
ah yeah
I much prefer this Creator DLC then, only bothered by own/not-own compatibility
wraith sleet
What it led to in the industry has been insane. To think that horse armour has led to legislation in the EU to ban predatory use of gambling mechanics on minors. A little over 10 years and we went from horse armour to a lot of horrors.
sinful cape
BI dlc prices have been very reasonable so far, imo
ashen belfry
I agree, especially considering the content (Karts notwithstanding)
untold oracle
agreed as well
wraith sleet
I am a lot happier about expansions that bring extensive content than a few trinkets or the poison that is lootboxes. They are much better value for money IMO
tired vault
^^^
wraith sleet
If the terrain is good it might be worth it just for that.
ashen belfry
The terrain is beautiful
timid mountain
what little i alreayd know about thee terrain it is worth the 20 bux alone
wraith sleet
Is there any more on the mod than the news item and forum post? A video showing gameplay or terrains off perhaps?
vocal pawn
Not that I'm aware of. I would expect it to hit dev branch pretty soon though.
timid mountain
ii don't hink they have anything more public than the store page
mild solstice
Can look for old terrain WIP pics in the forum thread I guess?
cedar quartz
So this is just a paid mod?
timid mountain
no
it is an extensive dlc made by professionals with missions, new units, everything
pearl willow
"just"... a paid mod that has more content, new objects etc. then any of the official dlcs and will still be cheaper... yes "just" a paid mod.
timid mountain
^
cedar quartz
But I cant join a server unless I have the DLC?
scarlet sable
the DLC looks amazing however requiring players to have the DLC to join the server with the DLC is stupid imo, it should be like the official arma 3 DLCs.
pearl willow
Well basically it is, as you cant join Tanoa maps either without owning Apex. As well as mentioned many times above: its no official DLCs, so those old habbits dont apply.
wraith sleet
We think this has further restrictions though in that unlike with Apex content you can't even join a server that has it enabled.
That is regardless of whether the content is in use or not. I am going to hope BI changes that in the two short weeks they have
pearl willow
Well its new content... dont know why people expect everything to be free...
cedar quartz
I dont grudge paying the money, its the fact I can only use it on what will be a small percentage of servers
timid mountain
you will definitely not be able to join a server with it in use
you WILL be able to join a server with peoopoe who have it eve if you don't if it is NOT iin use and has NOT been used in said mission file on the server
wraith sleet
Actually that hasn't been confirmed by BI and based on what they have said it seems unlikely.
pearl willow
You also have to see that this is a total conversion, nothing that can and will be easily combined with vanilla stuff from the far future.
timid mountain
they will not make it so that people who own it can't play with people who don't
that is not entirely true cosmo
cedar quartz
So I host a small mission for me and my mates on Alits and I have the DLC, my mates dont. I can still use the DLC tanks? they just wont beable to enter the vehicle or use the gun or whatever
timid mountain
if you own the dlc and your friends dont' they will be albe to join your game if you HAVE NOT USED ANY GM UNITS IN THAT MISSION FILE
wraith sleet
The existing DLC allow games that are mixed content, if you have the DLC you can drive the vehicles and use the guns, if not you can't or get nag screens. What they said in the FAQ suggests this isn't the case and when asked they didn't know the answer. So I fear this is different
Again bludclot that is not clear yet, we do not have that answer. Please stop saying that it isn't confirmed yet
cedar quartz
Oh right so I can still run about with the new guns and shit as long as it isnt hard coded into the mission file.
timid mountain
if you want toi be sure your friends can join you.. just unload the dlc iin the arma 3 launcher.. restart and see
however IF A MISSION FILE HAS EVER HAD THOSE UNITS PLACED IN THE EDEN EDITOR <- you will haave it rquired in the mission file
cedar quartz
ahhh
timid mountain
you can NOT run around with the new guns at the same server as pepple without
wraith sleet
I wouldn't take any of this as true Andy because I am the one that asked this question along with dedmen and we do not have an answer yet
burnt helm
you cant join server that run the DLC if you dont own it
timid mountain
^
wraith sleet
We don't know that either. Unconfirmed and unclear.
timid mountain
anyone who knows half of how arma works will know is
it is implied at the very least by how it works
burnt helm
how would you join a server if you dont have the files needed on your PC?
timid mountain
^
pearl willow
As this wont be downloaded automatically, like the official content. You most surely wont be able to just join.
timid mountain
^
cedar quartz
So I am paying for a DLC I can only use with other people who own the DLC?
timid mountain
yup
cedar quartz
So you can see where I am slightly frustrated in regards to this new DLC system?
pearl willow
no
timid mountain
yes it is annoying
wraith sleet
It is quite a big change from their prior system
timid mountain
someone at bi made a lame choice and should have stuck to how it as with apex
delicate pumice
indeed, fact is we've been spoilt by BI bending over backwards
wraith sleet
It potentially causes a bunch of waste drive space for communities that have to run two installations, ironic given they wanted to save us space now we need the dedicated server installed twice on different branches!
burnt helm
its not weird, and right now there is no better way. Its just that dividing the player base is no good, and will stop many from making the investment
muted narwhal
just as users have been spoiled with free content
vocal pawn
There is a better way: the way they were already doing it. Two better ways: Arma 2 style
muted narwhal
A2 style was far from perfect
pearl willow
Just like the community has been splitted with milsim, survival, koth, battleroyal, lifemods etc. etc.
vocal pawn
I didn't say it was perfect I said it was better than what BI is trying to do now
pearl willow
Just like people cried that you had to by apex to play on Tanoa
muted narwhal
i honestly think that from a PR department, it was pretty bad with A2
wraith sleet
I keep thinking that BI is starting to get into financial trouble and is attempting the old AAA extract method to stay alive, a bunch of failed games and a very late engine change will do that to a business.
pearl willow
And dont forget: This game is 6 years old and kept updated. Most other companies have released 3 different games at the same time at full prices. Thats a good way to keep it alive from the community side
delicate pumice
it will probably cost BI sales but what'ev they have their reasons, fact is ppl can just choose not to buy and carry on with their lives as if the DLC was never announced
vocal pawn
it's not that easy. From a missionmaker and server host perspective, it's very frustrating to know that there's a ton of extremely good content available that I can't actually use, because of the requirements
delicate pumice
the key requirement being that it costs money?
vocal pawn
That it costs money in combination with locking everyone who doesn't have it out of the server
digital kernel
I want to buy this, I want to use all the good looking content but probably wont be able to use the content even if I buy it because the community I play with doesnt want to alienate half our player base for not owning it.
timid mountain
then buy it
play the single player campaing
play it on servers where they have it
and then ppls will buy it as they go
pearl willow
It took other people to create for years and you want to have it for free.... to fill your own server with little effort.
vocal pawn
no, hold the hell up. I didn't say I wanted it for free. I have happily bought every previous DLC.
digital kernel
^
vocal pawn
I will probably buy this DLC myself. The issue is the incompatibility with people who don't have it.
fresh zealot
^^^
pearl willow
And there will be others who also will buy it. No problem here. Its not that you will have to host for every A3 player
vocal pawn
No, but I have to host for my players, and I can't force them all to buy it. Which means either I tell some people to get lost because they're poor, or don't use the content at all.
pearl willow
The community has always been split with all those milsim, life, survival, zombies etc. And now it will be one more faction joining in. I dont get the problem.
wraith sleet
From a community perspective I am concerned mainly about wasted resources, either the need for additional dedicated servers running or on wasted drive space and starting different servers to make it work in a community that doesn't require it. To an extent we do that with mods already because some game modes do not work well with certain mods but it is a pain. I just want to know the details so I and others can plan how this will work properly.
vocal pawn
it's not "one more faction", it's a subdivision of existing communities
wraith sleet
Our Tanoa problem was solved by someone getting a tax rebate and splurging the lot to buy Apex for everyone that didn't have it. So it become required. That is one way to solve the issue I guess but we are bigger now and I imagine less interest in WW2 setting.
pearl willow
Then dont use it... simple as that
vocal pawn
Modsets are usually free. Use of this DLC means the barrier to entry to the community becomes money instead of willingness to install mods.
wraith sleet
A bunch of communities will likely spring up that require this and steal some guys wanting to play it basically, this is partly what Apex did.
timid mountain
what cosmo said
rare epoch
I have no problems with this DLC if we get the ability to use the map assets in other mods (via including with base game or separate free addon) without requiring ownership of the DLC, if that doesn't happen any mod that requires the DLC is a no-go for quite a few people.
vocal pawn
It's a particularly serious case for my server because we have a "no required mods" policy. DLC is the only extra content we get. This is a lot of content for us that is off-limits.
timid mountain
that is not happening jonbons
you must pay ffor this dlc to use mods like mine that will require it
pearl willow
Still dont get the problem. No one forces you to use it. If your comunity doesnt like it and its against you policiy just leave it alone. Others will concentrate on this DLC for sure.
untold oracle
[11:59 PM] bludclot: someone at bi made a lame choice and should have stuck to how it as with apex
@timid mountain this is exactly what I was saying the entire day, finally we agree? π
timid mountain
we never diisagreed
vocal pawn
Yes, I can tell you don't get it. I'm trying to explain as simply as possible. The content is there. It is official-quality content and a much-needed boost to our options. We would love, LOVE to use it. Our missionmakers are drooling over it. BI says if we want to use it we have to force all of our players to buy it.
untold oracle
good to know
cedar quartz
Imagine this: "I have just dropped almost Β£20 on a new DLC, I hop on to my favourite wasteland server to frag the almost 100 players, I head over to the gun shop to pick up a gun cant see any of the new guns, oh must be a mistake. Tries different wasteland server with almost 80 players same happens again, cant use my new DLC I bought. I then try a different game mode on a server with 60, and again cant use the new guns." Can you see the problem im having???
timid mountain
this is NOT that sort o dlc
delicate pumice
Don't buy it then.
wraith sleet
The fact it differs to the existing to the DLC model is definitely going to cause some confusion
timid mountain
it is not a pay for guns upgrade
you can't buy shiny new things to make your friends jelly
cedar quartz
So whats the point of it then if it can only be used in 0.0001% of servers?
timid mountain
on public derp servers
pearl willow
BrightCandleheute um 00:16 Uhr
The fact it differs to the existing to the DLC model is definitely going to cause some confusion
Only for the guys that are not able to read FAQs or google or the storepages...
timid mountain
you can't use apex on all servers either
delicate pumice
Don't buy it then, plenty of other people will find uses for it that don't exclusively involve playing Wasteland.
cedar quartz
Β£20 for about 20min of fun on single player is not worth in for me or many other people.
versed obsidian
Guess we'll just have to announce to our players that they should not purchase this, as we won't be able to use it, pretty sure plenty of people purchased it thinking it was a normal DLC
timid mountain
you can't even use anydefault arma content at all on the servers i play on
scarlet sable
@timid mountain yeah you can?
cedar quartz
@timid mountain I can drive a prowler around with a Spar17 of 99% of server
timid mountain
no, you can't
scarlet sable
you can place apex content on vanilla servers without having people install the DLC?
timid mountain
what you can use is definied in the mission file run on the sever and limited by the server content
wraith sleet
The storepage does not in any way say this works differently at all. The FAQ has a giant hole in it I tried to get an answer to earlier and BI still don't know the answer. So I think its fair to say this is already causing confusion
timid mountain
for sure it is
versed obsidian
What's the difference from running a normal modded server and this? Besides your players have to pay β¬20 to play?
rare epoch
I have zero problems with the DLC itself, I'm just not a fan of any mod using DLC as a pre-requisite and you could probably compare it to A2 and OA expansion as this has a comparable amount of content to them but its so late in the game's life-cycle its frustrating to run into this issue.
wraith sleet
We think nothing, it is just like a mod. We don't have a 100% confirmation on that however so not sure yet
timid mountain
the content
timid mountain
no it is epic if you want to play on a german terrain with actual german gear
wraith sleet
Well you can't get the content any other way, but yet it is more like a mod than a DLC by the looks of things
scarlet sable
this new DLC is useless, why cant the assets be in the base game like the apex dlc
burnt helm
also, you can support the mod creators with it
timid mountain
the difference between a mod and a dlc is that it is free or not
vocal pawn
it behaves like a mod but you pay for it like it's an expansion. Which I would be fine with, if I could use the content in the same way I can use any other expansion content, but I can't
cedar quartz
If I wanted to take in the sights of Germany I would put that Β£20 towards a flight over to Germany
versed obsidian
Ahahahahahahha
arctic seal
you can see GM more as an expansion than a DLC. you can not play on tanoa without purchasing it either. no big deal
timid mountain
then obviously this dlc isn't for you
versed obsidian
We want the assets for everyone to see and only DLC owners to use
cedar quartz
^^^
arctic seal
so what?
vocal pawn
@arctic seal I would love to see it as an expansion, because existing expansion content can be used in missions without requiring everyone to own the expansion. That's not the case with Creator DLC and it's a biiiig difference.
pearl willow
Those guys here are just interessted in new free weapons as it seems.... not the great terrain, the vehicles, the missions etc.
wraith sleet
That change in model is definitely making people angry and it is going to cause misunderstandings.
timid mountain
because the only thing you want is bigger arsenal that you spend real money to get? well this isn't that sort of dlc
versed obsidian
How is this dlc supposed to extend arma 3's life if its splitting the community even further?
cedar quartz
I wouldn't mind paying for the DLC if I could use the new guns on servers where people dont have to have the DLC.
scarlet sable
the new DLC looked amazing until I saw this fucking client requiring the DLC shit at the bottom of the post
arctic seal
i for my case, even i will most likely not play much GM, will buy the DLC/Expansion just to support the devs of it. they earned it. the rest of you, i couldn't care less π
burnt helm
The issue being: If they put all 3rd party DLCs into the game by default, the game size will easly climb over 100GB. This single one is already 22GB
vocal pawn
What I want is to give BI and the mod creators money for content I can use with my server community. What I've got is the option to impose a paywall on my server. It's not fun.
untold oracle
@burnt helm it can still be an optional download, and then handled same as BI DLCs in-game with pop-ups etc.
scarlet sable
@burnt helm games like GTAV are 100gb?
burnt helm
@untold oracle yeah but as optional download, it would not be possible to be on every server ^^
cedar quartz
They could release a Β£20 SSD DLC like this one. https://www.amazon.co.uk/BRAVEEAGLE-Stable-Performance-Internal-Laptop/dp/B07DNTKRWD/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=ssd&qid=1555539883&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
No more storage problems
untold oracle
@burnt helm and that's fine, what's wrong with that
versed obsidian
Does it even say on the steam page that you won't be able to play on any servers with it?
untold oracle
that wouldn't be splitting the community any more than custom modpacks do
@versed obsidian not Steam page, but everywhere else
versed obsidian
So people will buy it thinking they get more content they can use
Seems quite fucking misleading
When no servers will support that shit show
pearl willow
Only if people are not able to read...
scarlet sable
this new DLC just seems like bohemia wanting easy money
they cba to fix issues on their own issue tracker
wraith sleet
Again Cosmo this is not spelled out on the store front at all.
scarlet sable
I mean naked bug was posted in 2015 and no response
versed obsidian
What's an issue tracker π€
They should still spell it out on the steam store regardless
Seems like a scam
arctic seal
graphics cards for $300,- and more -- none bats an eye
BI releases a DLC/Expansion for $22 -- everybody loses their minds
cedar quartz
Its like Ford releasing a nice new car without an engine in it, people buy it because they think it has an engine as normal and then release that it only use and that is to sit in your driveway.
untold oracle
no one is losing their minds @arctic seal, we pointed out the problem and some don't understand, take critique or ignore it
versed obsidian
It's not really a "DLC" per their usual definition
untold oracle
fact is BI went out of their years long saying that DLCs should not do what this one does
well I guess some people are losing their minds, I am just trying to keep this on track of the actual issue π
pearl willow
As its no BI-DLC but a creator DLC ... no they did not
rare epoch
I don't care at all about any of the weapons, vehicles, etc that get added by the DLC because the thing that is frustrating is the possibility of custom terrains, etc being restricted to DLC owners which is annoying because terrains have some of the greatest of value to me and it's frustrating that for a large portion of communities its just not feasible to put that requirement on the members this late into the game.
wraith sleet
It behaves technically like it is a paid mod as far as we can tell, although BI hasn't yet replied to the detail on this in the forum post so it might be more forgiving that we think
arctic seal
@untold oracle
don't get me wrong. the meme was simplified (a lot).
i know what this is about, but tbh i am personally ok with it
untold oracle
sure, I can understand some won't ever run into those issues, but many do
wraith sleet
If you run a public server that is purposefully no mods but utilising DLC this is going to be a problem.
scarlet sable
simple solution; put majority of the assets in the base game then we happy
untold oracle
that doesn't help with the size of the game, which I partially agree could be a problem (but not really since it's apparently really hard to get approved and we won't ever have that many Creator DLCs)
cedar quartz
Looks like the DLC is going to turn out like the Germans after they lost WW2
wraith sleet
Inside of an existing community there is going to be an issue of 2 dedicated server needs or at the very least two installations to accommodate the mod which will likely limit its scope.
untold oracle
most ideal solution is allow anyone to download it for free and load into servers but only use the assets if they own the DLC
wraith sleet
About the group that wont have an issue here is either 1) Communities that will force or pay for all their players on it or 2) New communities that start up purposefully around the mod
little rampart
download free... sure then everyone has to download 200GB creator dlc content in future
this is just the beginning
you have no idea how many are still coming
untold oracle
apparently it's really hard to get approved and we won't ever have that many Creator DLCs...
little rampart
"a few" large ones can easily ammount to this amount
well ... i think there are at least 10 teams doing creator DLC atm.
untold oracle
how many will get fully approved and released? π
little rampart
and 2 i know are also really large full conversions
burnt helm
yes, at least 3 creator DLC are to be exspected
wraith sleet
If this marks the bar for what is coming frankly I am excited about the possibilities of multiple total conversions of high quality. The technical and legal details are a pain but boy do I want that good content.
untold oracle
my problem is having to pay for something I won't use but other people in event/community will, either force everyone else to buy it or just allow free download without them accessing the content in-game
and I know this doesn't solve the server issue, because it would work exactly like a mod, but it solves the issue with community "split"
scarlet sable
now we have to force players to install a "DLC" to join the vanilla a3 server
basically becoming a modded server
wraith sleet
This is going to shake the communities up a bit, those wanting this experience will go seek places where its required and hence used.
arctic seal
reading all this i don't want to imagine what would have happened if CUP Terrains would have gone (free)DLC...
π€
versed obsidian
Might as well go modded, they wont have to pay to play then
Literally no reason for any servers to host this
untold oracle
probably nothing @arctic seal, it's a free DLC, download it or don't, there would be no paywall, where it currently is
wraith sleet
Well some will host it specifically because their is an audience, but there wont be much overlap.
pearl willow
No one complains about splitting the community when ever Battlefield or Call of Duty etc. is released year after year in a "new" version and everyone has to buy it to be able to play with his friends.... but for a small DLC....
arctic seal
probably true @untold oracle
versed obsidian
Wonder if the next community DLC will be proper anti cheat π€
vocal pawn
Call of Duty has a significantly different model to Arma 3
untold oracle
no, because BF or CoD companies haven't been saying for years that they are strongly against that!
rare epoch
yep
wraith sleet
On the contrary people complained enormously about the community splits in Battlefield which is why EA changed the model extensively in the last release
They literally changed away from fragmenting the community by maps to avoid fragmenting their community and have given multiple dev updates on precisely that.
untold oracle
@arctic seal probably same people would complain that already complain that it's not split into smaller Terrain packages xD
vocal pawn
I would have no complaints about a free CUP terrains DLC because asking people to install free DLC is very different. I mean, we already did that with Malden, everyone loves it.
pearl willow
Sure everyone loves free stuff... but someone has to create it with time and his own money...
untold oracle
but that's embedded into the game, no choice but to install it
untold oracle
you can't do that with CUP Terrains for example, it's huge
or the base game will really quickly get to 100s GB, which still wouldn't be a problem looking at some AAA games today π
cedar quartz
vocal pawn
All three CUP Terrains packages total to about 15GB. That's pretty reasonable expansion size.
untold oracle
oh it is, I agree
arctic seal
well, let's not continue this to not spread false rumors. we thought about CUP Terrains as a free DLC but iirc got denied by BI for reasons i can't remember anymore.
vocal pawn
Probably not up to DLC quality standards
(I mean, CUP's great, but it's Arma 2 ports. It doesn't hold up.)
arctic seal
the rework would have been A3 quality
arctic seal
maybe
wraith sleet
We don't run CUP, the quality is really jarring compared to Arma 3/RHS assets.
cedar quartz
@scarlet sable what you think of this new idea?
untold oracle
we are talking about Terrains @wraith sleet, last I checked RHS had no terrains ^^
frosty shoal
can we get a dlc that is based around the lgbtq? theres no enough rainbow shizz in this game
cedar quartz
Agreed
frosty shoal
+1
burnt helm
i need a pink guillisuit
cedar quartz
This is 2019
frosty shoal
i want a rainbow strider
arctic seal
oh ffs...
π€¦
untold oracle
ACE LSD π
burnt helm
pretty sure you can get the wit script commands @frosty shoal
frosty shoal
i dont want it scripted, FAR too much work
untold oracle
ACE3 LSD
frosty shoal
we already have enough hard work just being accepted
wraith sleet
A DLC with female models and lots of civilians variants and basic stuff would be great, trans people and children/babies too
obsidian osprey
I agree Β£20 for a colourful ifrit would be better than this new DLC
cedar quartz
LGBTQ DLC and all the money goes to the cause instead of the Bohemia Staff Xmass party.
frosty shoal
@wraith sleet this guy knows the crack
obsidian osprey
Actually good point
wraith sleet
We could have pride marchers!
wraith sleet
I could blow up a baby with an accidental grenade.
arctic seal
well, that's a new way to break up an evolving CUP/RHS comparison discussion...
mention LGBTQ...
π€
i can...
obsidian osprey
I could spawn as one though
wraith sleet
Which combined with bloodlust is going to look and sound amazing
frosty shoal
they are with teh right documentation
obsidian osprey
Should be an attribute editor for boob enhancements.
wraith sleet
Seriously stuff other than men would be amazing!
dry leaf
We really need women characters
There arent enought minorities to shoot in this game
:/
wraith sleet
Do not forget your crossdressers and trans people, this is 2019
dry leaf
Rise up gamers
cedar quartz
Could you please make it so you can have a drop down to select your sexual orientation, eg Goat, Man, Apache Attack Helicopters
obsidian osprey
@cedar quartz this man has good ideas
wraith sleet
Religious selector so lots of edge lords can choose jedi
dry leaf
Have yall realized some of the soldiers in altis were fortnite dancing kids
cedar quartz
When is the Arma 3 Battle Royal Gamemode DLC comin?
dry leaf
The greatest generation
vocal pawn
well this turned awful very fast
dry leaf
I mean, PUBG started in Arma 3 i think
Before they managed to make it even more unstable
cedar quartz
@scarlet sable this is a military sandbox you cant talk like that about your superiors
wraith sleet
I don't like the model and I can see why we will have issues with it and I can see why others will too. But this is a good bar to set for paid DLC and it looks interesting to say the least.
cedar quartz
looks good?
wraith sleet
Store front has a bunch of pictures.
frosty shoal
@hearty arrow why is there no lgbtq content yet? any ideas?
wraith sleet
I am hoping for some answers tomorrow on how it gets run and what its limits are, whether it really is just full on paid mod or there is some flexibility towards the DLC style of things or not and if we can run one server or two. Then I guess some of my community will play it but no idea how many if it isn't our main game.
arctic seal
why should there be LGBTQ content in the game?
wide oar
^
frosty shoal
equality...
dry leaf
Cuz its 2035
cedar quartz
@frosty shoal maybe they waiting for Arma 4 before they release it?
arctic seal
equality
of what?
wide oar
There is no real reason for it other then tokenism if you are serious
frosty shoal
excluding the gay community from the gaming community is disrespectful at best
dry leaf
I mean, how tf would we even do that?
wide oar
I cant even tell if this is a shitpost anymore
arctic seal
how can you tell a soldier is gay or not?
@frosty shoal
dry leaf
Gamers rise up
wide oar
but several people are typing
frosty shoal
rainbow
obsidian osprey
Well i agree with you @frosty shoal
dry leaf
Go back to your society
arctic seal
does he have a pink star patched on his uniform?
obsidian osprey
bring gender to Arma 3!!!
cedar quartz
DLC have gas masks??
dry leaf
Get AEW for that
wide oar
Ask them @cedar quartz
dry leaf
They got the IDF spec ops
wraith sleet
The lack of women has been a sore point for a long time, they are already in plenty of armies already and the civilian pack is certainly missing then too.
dry leaf
Yeah i gotta agree
arctic seal
@frosty shoal
if you want to respect the LGBTQ community, don't point fingers at the members by outing them with special remarks or something
cedar quartz
Reduce woman gender stamina by like 60% compared to men
wide oar
π€
cedar quartz
keeping it real
dry leaf
totally not just want NATOwaifus
wraith sleet
They have the same fitness standard as the men.
wide oar
assuming the devs will add women because muh equality
cedar quartz
I heard there was going to be an SAS DLC can someone confirm?
dry leaf
Could we get pregnant as a female soldier?
plush geyser
goes to poke a moderator on the shoulder to bring this back to less... controversial topics
obsidian osprey
Now thats a good idea
wide oar
my IQ
obsidian osprey
What happens to the baby though?
frosty shoal
so its unacceptable to campaign for lgbtq but women are all good?
wraith sleet
An SAS DLC would be interesting as well, assuming it is the same sort of thing with units, weapons, vehicles, terrains and missions.
cedar quartz
It would make good use of that Ambulance in the LoW DLC
wide oar
w o r k s h o p
arctic seal
I find it extremely disrespectful that women are not in the game
iirc game engine and skeleton limitations
plush geyser
i find it disrespectful to all of humanity that instead of actual discussion related to this room's topic we're just discussing women being in a video game
.-.
arctic seal
it was a technical decision
wide oar
Bringing identity politics into a video game is fucking stupid
frosty shoal
and its opinions like that which hold people down
arctic seal
but @plush geyser is right, let's get back to DLC related stuff
vocal pawn
this is why I stay on my own community's discord, it's much nicer when people aren't spouting off sexist crap for no reason
wide oar
arctic seal
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
dry leaf
I should get things for free uwu
timid mountain
hetzers gonna hetz
arctic seal
it's the first DLC, we'll see how this evolves
wide oar
I think the new map is gonna be awesome
arctic seal
maybe the politics change over time, we will see...
dry leaf
Its really terrible how i have to buy arma 3 to play arma 3
wraith sleet
Tanoa did well in the end didn't it?
plush geyser
tanoa's dead mostly because it's not optimal for gameplay and the framerate is kind of sucky
in private communities with people that can run it, it's beloved
dry leaf
@wide oar ikr, gonna recreate the first mission of World in conflict
wide oar
Tanoa is nice for alot of things
wraith sleet
We don't honestly run it very often as their are better jungle maps now
cedar quartz
Maybe if they learnt how to use a chainsaw and got rid of a few trees all would be good.
frosty shoal
chainsaw dlc?
cedar quartz
omg
dry leaf
Tanoa is nice but it has that "where the fuck in i getting shot at" syndrome
dry leaf
Still, tanoa kind reminds me of where i grew up so i like it
Im Brazilian but nah, not the jungle
But the topography is similar
Red soil
wraith sleet
Tanoa is what inspired the CF_BAI mod to get made, the reduction in distances and reduction in visibility is what made it really clear we needed better balance that was dynamic.
dry leaf
Trees, etc
wraith sleet
But we had issues with other terrains before it, Panethera was pretty bad as well for that.
dry leaf
CF_woodland is also nice
ashen belfry
one troll removed
obsidian osprey
I'm not trolling around, I genuinely believe there should be gender in arma. I agree totally with @frosty shoal
ashen belfry
Unless you were banned, you're not the troll I was referring to.
cedar quartz
Why doesn't steam just make it so you can can set prices on Mods you make. Saves giving Bohemia a cut
ashen belfry
Why doesn't steam just make it so you can can set prices on Mods you make. Saves giving Bohemia a cut That was the whole point of the agreement 50/50
vocal pawn
because that's almost certainly illegal
ashen belfry
(plus Valves take)
wraith sleet
Because there are a bunch of legal and technical challenges that stop it, Bethesda tried that with Skyrim and it failed hard
little rampart
steam takes 40% (or 30%?) ...
ashen belfry
10% iirc
little rampart
never
faint moss
Should have bought that 5 dollar grass mod for Skyrim
timid mountain
creator dlc > bethesda not paid mod paid mods that are paid but totally not paid mods
wraith sleet
This model is actually quite a bit closer to the Skyrim paid mods system. BI doesn't even know if they will be maintaining for a future release of the game.
little rampart
otherwise epic wouldnt have had the exclusivity successes lately
scarlet sable
@ashen belfry why are the assets not in the base game? why do we have to force players to pay for this "DLC" to join the server?
dry leaf
When steam did that we got shit like the 2 apples mod for Skyrim
wraith sleet
That was probably the most surprising response I got to my 3 questions honestly. You would have thought after the massive fallout that was the skyrim paid mods saga they would have thought about this and gone with a model where they took responsibility
ashen belfry
Because its not a part of the base game. Its content created by the community.
dry leaf
@scarlet sable because mod makers must eat
Thing is the skyrim and fallout mods are small, kinda crappy, and require a special coin to buy
cedar quartz
Aye yea sure buy the DLC give them the money and all that but whats the point of buying it if I can only use it on 0.01% of servers??
cedar quartz
Na its no
dry leaf
Arma is not the kind of game with Random lobbies
cedar quartz
If your mates dont have the DLC they cant join you
wraith sleet
I don't know if they haven't thought about how this would work or they are just hiding it but it isn't coming off as a professional way to lunch what is a very controversial thing with a lot of potential problems.
ashen belfry
whats the point of buying it if I can only use it on 0.01% of servers?? Because its nice to play with
cedar quartz
Β£20 for 20 mins of fun?
plush geyser
you only need it on 0.01% of servers if it's enjoyable?
timid mountain
20 mins of fun????????
plush geyser
(try 200 hours??)
timid mountain
there is a many hours long campaign
little rampart
you can bet your ass off they though about this several times and came to THIS conclusion, that its the best compromise.
ashen belfry
if you're only in it for 20 min, go find another game because Arma is obviously not for you.
timid mountain
and several missions
cedar quartz
From one DLC that you can only play by yourself?
plush geyser
i'm not even sure if i could walk to a AO in 20 minutes
wraith sleet
20 minutes most have finished fitting their gucci gear in the arsenal let alone set off and do something
little rampart
id buy it just for the campaign...
plush geyser
frankly if you think 20(whatever currency) isn't worth it for possibly hundreds of hours of stuff
ashen belfry
I'm buying it, and most of the people that I know are buying it, so it wont be played in SP
plush geyser
frankly, find a different game and maybe have fun.
wide oar
I've spent like 600 hours in Eden
frosty shoal
@ashen belfry surely you get it for free?
dry leaf
bruh i spend hours in the arsenal doing nothing but shooting the goddanm holograms
wide oar
^
plush geyser
he doesn't.
ashen belfry
Ive spend more than 20 miutes just lying under a bush waiting for a patrol to pass.
dry leaf
ARMA 3 has this thing where it kind of eats your time
plush geyser
20 minutes
ashen belfry
Nope, and even if I did get it for free, I'd buy a copy and gift it to someone.
fringe python
Question
Will we be able to buy the upcomming dlc's in a bundle again?
plush geyser
FM you pathetic nerd, try waiting two hours because the zeus ordered a patrol to kill you and the AI couldn't find you
timid mountain
ΓΈi have spent hours in the bush when my helicopter crashed waiting for extractions behind enemy lines
dry leaf
also, i think people dont realize the sheer ammount of content GM has
timid mountain
that shit is what arma is about
wraith sleet
You'll probably spend more than 20 minutes trying to work out the magic combination to make it start on launch day knowing BI as we do. Once you have your 3 workarounds in place then 6 hours later you'll be away!
frosty shoal
so you do get it for free?lol
plush geyser
sounds about right
dry leaf
campaign, terrain, vehicles, differnt camos, denmark(?)
plush geyser
FM does not get the DLC for free.
faint moss
Do we have screenshots of the Danish combat suits?
fringe python
@frosty shoal he said no
plush geyser
that is literally just what he stated.
dry leaf
i would be happy with the vehicles and guns alone
plush geyser
he's referenced that fact many times
timid mountain
danish no but it is the german gear and camo that danes used in the 70s0 80s
plush geyser
not only for this dlc, but previous ones as well
faint moss
Damn too bad
dry leaf
aww
cedar quartz
@ashen belfry Why not just make it like the old DLC's where you could still join the server and use the guns and that with people that dont have the DLC??
dry leaf
because the DLC doenst work the same way
obsidian osprey
I agree with @cedar quartz on that one
dry leaf
old DLCs added to the base content
cedar quartz
Why not?
obsidian osprey
same as the kart dlc
dry leaf
this one is a whole different thing
timid mountain
probably but if it doesn't it is easy to mod it on there
cedar quartz
Whats the reason for the change?
obsidian osprey
thats the thing
wraith sleet
Because its a mod and they probably don't have access just like we modders don't.
obsidian osprey
why cant it be added as base content
obsidian osprey
and limited to people who own the dlc
cedar quartz
Worked well until now
dry leaf
but we didnt have a total conversion untill now
faint moss
I donβt mind getting spammed with DLC popups
wraith sleet
Apex was pretty close, it contained all these elements.
dry leaf
i do lmao
delicate pumice
Different development model, in-house vs outside, not really hard to grasp is it?
obsidian osprey
Shift + P comes useful in life servers
frosty shoal
@faint moss aren't you loaded though?
dry leaf
Apex was close but the terrain was the main thing, most stuff was reskins and a few new vehicle classes
keep in mind im not saying apex was bad, i loved it
but it wanst operation arrowhead
wraith sleet
Contains all the same pieces though, units, vehicles, weapons, terrain and missions.
ashen belfry
I think some people are completely missing the point of Community DLC. It is NOT created by BI. It is created by hobbyists. Hence the old DLC scheme does not apply.
faint moss
I can definitely buy it @frosty shoal
wraith sleet
Apex didn't cause this issue because the way it was rolled out, this is a different model and it needs strong demarcation as such, the store does not make this clear currently and it needs to.
frosty shoal
and gift them too?lol
faint moss
Nah not that generous hah
wraith sleet
More than that because that is partially true of the other DLC as well.
dry leaf
also, GM is also pretty huge
faint moss
Thereβs definitely a lot of cool stuff in the dlc that I would want to share with those who canβt buy the dlc
cedar quartz
If its created by BI or not I still dont understand why they could not just make it so you dont have to force an entire server to buy the dlc?
dry leaf
so it would be silly to force someone to download 22 gigs of data thats pretty much useless untill they buy it
delicate pumice
Probably why you're not running a game studio in't.
ashen belfry
Because it is not a part of the base game, it is completely separate
wraith sleet
Should also be noted those words are not on the store page at all, it doesn't mention anything about the DLC model there.
dry leaf
...because this is how dlcs work normaly
little rampart
its not created by BI, pay attention god damn it ...
dry leaf
again, arma's dlc system was an exception, not the rule
ashen belfry
the amount of times I've had to say that today....
fringe python
@dry leaf In plain english, this DLC does not add game features or engine features. The only thing it adds is content.
dry leaf
Arma dlcs were also more like updates with premum stuff if you wanted to tip the devs
@fringe python exactly
wraith sleet
And yet they intend to create a special branch for the dedicated server portion. That is interesting for something not part of the core game.
little rampart
@ashen belfry let me guess - most of those complained about it being "paywall" ??? i see a commonality
ashen belfry
yup
cedar quartz
If you have had to say it that many times surely it must make you realise that something must be slightly off with the whole thing?
dry leaf
its a paywall because thats how the world works, i have no right to what someone else made
ashen belfry
no, its because most users are idiots and can't read.
dry leaf
i cant go into macdonalds and eat everything for free
ashen belfry
I work in IT, I can say that
dry leaf
what part of macdoanlds experience involves walking
yes, and you cannot play a game without buying it
ashen belfry
You can look at the DLC page for free too
wraith sleet
Well the rules don't allow you to and it isn't remotely fair
cedar quartz
I dont have an issue with paying but its like paying for the burger and then being told exactly where to eat it.
dry leaf
what
delicate pumice
huh?
ashen belfry
No, its like trying to get a McRib when its not being sold
little rampart
you can eat it at your home. You cant eat it in someone elses house unless he let you in...
ashen belfry
Or trying to get something that isnt included in the normal offer
little rampart
some more than others
fringe python
So far I have only seen one valid concern, and this is not directly BI's or the dlc makers problem. In a community, regular mods that have a dependency on this paid DLC can not be used unless all players have the DLC
This is the issue of the community and the modmaker
ashen belfry
And for most, thats not a concern
fringe python
Correct
dry leaf
i had that issue with some mods that required Apex
wraith sleet
If the DLC is a special McRib then you can't even enter the store unless you have bought a special McRib even if no one is eating one
dry leaf
what
little rampart
wat
ashen belfry
But, for those who want to see the community DLC work for the community, some are chosing to require them in order to use their mods. Fair play to them If I must say so!!
fringe python
Yes
wraith sleet
That is how this works as far as we can tell. You can't enter the server that enables this mod unless you have it, even if your playing completely vanilla content and not using the paid DLC at all
dry leaf
yeah and i cant eat a burguer without buying it
cedar quartz
"Oh you have bought this cool thing ok nice you can only use it over here, if you want to use it elsewhere you will have to go back to launcher disable it and then go elsewhere."
fringe python
So?
cedar quartz
You dont see an issue?
ashen belfry
So, you cant drive your jetski in my pool....
wraith sleet
You can't eat the burger but it goes beyond that, you wont be allowed in the store even if others aren't eating the burger either BUT the store sells it so therefore you need to buy it. It is a stretch of analogy.
fringe python
Ok, clientside it will work like this
ashen belfry
but, theres a lake over there where you can
little rampart
@wraith sleet if the server places a house of the mod the person "isnt using it in his hands" but the server still has the mods content for people to play at
fringe python
IF you have it enabled, you can join all servers
little rampart
if it doesnt use it thats not fault of the model.
fringe python
Server side, if it is enabled and you dont have it, you cant join that server
I guess
cedar quartz
but thats the problem all the lakes will be dried up.
feral basin
just came here to say i'm happy there's going to be a Bicycle in-game
ashen belfry
I really think too many people are overthinking this.
plush geyser
frankly, the people against the dlc being forced are acting like they're entitled to something, and the people defending the dlc acting like this are over-reacting to them
can we just relax with all of the comparisons, arguments and all of that
little rampart
overthinking? no. Overcomplaining yes π
fringe python
Yes
plush geyser
and become more... civilized ._.
wraith sleet
Goes beyond that, even if you aren't using the content you can't enter the server. The DLC model is a lot more forgiving, this is technically a mod but BI hasn't directly answered yet on that
ashen belfry
They have actually, ages ago
dry leaf
yeah but mods are a blessing, but it is not something we have any right to
modmakers let us have their mods because they want us to
wraith sleet
No they haven't, I asked the question and I got a "we will get back to you" and they haven't done.
faint moss
Wait this is a mod?
cedar quartz
No one is saying they are entitled to it, if only they pay then only they can use.
ashen belfry
The "Creator DLC" is essentially paid mods, but its also a bit more than that.
Yes Danish
cedar quartz
If its a paid mod why is it being advertised as a DLC, this is very misleading....
ashen belfry
A very large and very high quality user made mod
little rampart
a mod is DLC
wraith sleet
In terms of what we understand mod and DLC to mean in terms of the model of how it works technically this is like a paid mod. Its required to connect to the server like a free mod would be.
little rampart
a DLC is DLC
ashen belfry
Because Steam doesnt do paid mods
little rampart
because you can download the content
...
it can be anything. Music pictures pron
ashen belfry
But it does do DLC
wraith sleet
It isn't a DLC in how Arma 3 has defined it so far
fringe python
@violet cypress sounds like a shit community
ashen belfry
semantics really
wraith sleet
Important distinction and change in model which changes how it can be utilised, which is what all these arguments are about
faint moss
I can see servers not wanting to use it as it could mean a decrease in numbers.
cedar quartz
^^^
muted narwhal
for real, people still complain about 22$ price for DLC?
opaque gate
I see that despite going to sleep for 6 hours we're still having the same argument, with the same points, involving the same people with what appears no progress
ashen belfry
The key thing to ask yourselves is "Do you want to play a cold war German (east vs west) mod?" If you dont, dont buy it. Simple
muted narwhal
are you all playing on public servers?
delicate pumice
Andy, can we now (finally) take it as read that this DLC is of no use to you as, by your own estimation, you'd only be able to use it on 0.01% of the servers you frequent. Congratulations, you save $20, now surely it's time to move on with your life rather than spending it here complaining about something you don't have to buy because you don't need it.
dry leaf
i think the main different betwen a mod and an expansion is that a expansion is paid lmao
wraith sleet
People aren't really comlaining about the price, it is the model of access and its implications because the difference between free and $0.01 is a barrier.
ashen belfry
I couldnt care less about public servers, I care that half my community arent just going to go out and pony up the money, meaning we can't gaurantee 100% ownership, and have to tell new players "Sorry you need to buy this other thing because unlike Apex the files are optional"
I hate to sound rude, but the answer is "TOUGH".
fringe python
@violet cypress and what if your community does a mission on tanoa?
dry leaf
i get the impression some people think this DLC is somehow timed
like, you have to get it now or you never get it
as time goes on more people will get it
bundles will problaby appear
ashen belfry
People just want free stuff
signal copper
i dont really understand this "excuse" about "if distributed like previous DLCs then 100GB game size" when GTAV already has over 80, gears of war 4 with all DLCs has more then 200GB, X-plane has 70 GB, HALO 5+DLCs more then 100GB, etc.. sorry but using game size as an excuse for even bigger community splitting in a 2019 is just a joke
dry leaf
good thing i dont play any of those games, and from your info i also dont feel like doing it
wraith sleet
Keep attacking that strawman he will be dead any minute.
muted narwhal
i wonder what would happen if mods would allow to be monetized, just like servers are
ashen belfry
I asked a similar question today of the Devs and they dont see anything like that happening because it depends on how many people apply to go through the Creators DLC process.
opaque gate
I would argue that everyone has apex now because they saw their friends playing with apex assets and bought it, which will not be the case with GM, because they cannot see their friends using it, they can't interact at all
faint moss
Apex just annoyed you with popups till you bought it
cedar quartz
Its not that I dont need it I like the look of it and will probably buy it. But for me with alot of my hours playing "non-mil sim" gamemodes why is it being deliberately bottlenecked??
little rampart
@muted narwhal outcry and public self-incinerations
ashen belfry
For many many years, every time a new DLC or expansion is announced, we get the same, "It will fracture the community"......
little rampart
as if the community isnt already fractured...
muted narwhal
^^
ashen belfry
My response from 14:50 today:
THE END IS NIGH! THE END IS NIGH! RUN AWAY, FLEE
Its the same response no matter whats announced.
hot take: arma 3 is not like COD or BF were we jump into random servers and kill each other
arma 3 is about communities customizing the game for their own taste.
one simple example would be a Unit based around the german military, they could have this DLC as a requirement
meanwhile a vannila Unit may not even need any DLC
and then theres stuff like Life and RP that i dont think will be affected at all
wraith sleet
It did happen. We have had more than a few not join because we required Apex. It is a genuine problem still.
ashen belfry
more than a few not join Membership does not a good time make
mild solstice
People not joining your community isn't really a problem though, is it?
dry leaf
i mean, at least this is not like what israel was for wargame red dragon
little rampart
For 1 Arma 3 game lifetime you'd have had 6 call of duties... think about that
mild solstice
Perhaps they just have communities that aren't interested in playing as 1980s Germans?
ashen belfry
Many of us purchased the supporters edition. so we dont pay for any BI DLC
Its not a BI DLC, thats what Ive been trying to say all day
muted narwhal
for ducks sake, this discussion is lowering my IQ
grand marten
whats goingon in here..someone doesnt have any money to buy the dlc?
delicate pumice
yes, but they have a rig that will run arma
muted narwhal
but they have money for a rig that plays A3
grand marten
hmm
wraith sleet
BI has chosen their model and it will have an impact on how well it sells and how much it gets used and I think it will be less than it deserves as a result. It is entirely their choice.
ashen belfry
I still use my rig from 2013
mild solstice
I fully endorse every sane person to call it CDLC or something, so people understand there is some distinction
muted narwhal
and stream for all cool kids on twitch and shit
wraith sleet
What is the C standing for?
mild solstice
Creator
plush geyser
people still are idiots and think you need to run this entire game on 60fps 4k for it to be "enjoyable"
grand marten
spent all the money on a gamer rig...cant afford any games to play on it..oh dear
mild solstice
I.e what BI market the scheme as
ashen belfry
Hey PuFu, consider making it a dependency for RHS? π
wraith sleet
I don't think that conveys the difference, it isn't a word that carries the right signal
mild solstice
It's not the same as developer (i.e. BI)
little rampart
Downloadable Expansion... if 'content' isnt specific enough
wraith sleet
DLC has a particular economic model in Arma 3 terms though
little rampart
no fuck that (downloadable). Its an expansion.
mild solstice
The fact BI call it DLC is probably more about how Steam handles it than anything
wraith sleet
It is an expansion and behaves precisely like one.
delicate pumice
^exactly a proper bleedin' expansion, the like of which we haven't yet seen in a3
mild solstice
one way or another, it has to be called DLC on steam
wraith sleet
paid mod also conveys how it behaves
muted narwhal
it's a paid addon, that needs to be called a DLC
plush geyser
frankly, i do not understand why people are so irritated by this
wraith sleet
I would have been a lot happier with Arma 3 DLC if it had been a bit more content rich frankly!
muted narwhal
simple as that
ashen belfry
need sleep...
little rampart
DLC is because its downloadable and it is content. DLC is just vage yet people think it is what some other things are that too are DLC
plush geyser
maybe we should make dedmen deal with this
i'm sure he'll have a splendid time π
muted narwhal
@ashen belfry i consider removing RHS, have CUP and some other mods take their stuff down as well
plush geyser
let fm sleep
ashen belfry
I just know that I'll wake up tomorrow with loads of PMs and a few bans to hand out.
little rampart
"YOU OWE US"
mild solstice
We should rebrand RHS as DLC, since it is Downloadable Content
muted narwhal
π
mild solstice
completely arbitrary acronym
muted narwhal
could have been called DLC as well
delicate pumice
Robert Hammer Studios
mild solstice
lul
muted narwhal
that ^ i have been told yes
mild solstice
Amateurs DLC
little rampart
make a big announcement that your mod will now be DLC.
ashen belfry
I say we just have the major mods of A3 use this new mod as a required dependency, then everyone will need to get it ...EVIL LAUGH
mild solstice
then we can have DLC, CDLC, ADLC
little rampart
i think mine will just be C
faint moss
But once you get another studio itβll be plural
little rampart
ble
muted narwhal
or just the creator part?>
little rampart
content.
delicate pumice
call it what it is, A4 Developer Wages
opaque gate
Well, the take away from this for me is, because there's maybe 2% of my community that cannot afford to pick this up, I cannot recommend that anyone in my community pick it up
When forced to choose between the friendships I have formed with the members of my community, or some neat looking arma assets, the people will always come first for me
This decision isn't related to the price, the size of the download, the quality of the content, some misplaced concept that mod developers don't deserve to be compensated for their time, or anything of the sort
It all comes down to how the DLC interacts with those that don't own it, and the fact that I would be forced to exclude people who have been part of my community for years due to them falling on hard times
A problem, that is not present with something like APEX
delicate pumice
Er... Tanoa?
regal shuttle
ok
dry leaf
If it is only 2% then it shouldn't be hard for their friends to help then buy it no?
little rampart
everyone puts 20ct in the cup and jimmy can join the rest of the guys too.
friendship?
regal shuttle
solidarity is too hard 2019 β’
little rampart
friendship 2019: solidarity not included
regal shuttle
solidarity must be a DLC
muted narwhal
π
opaque gate
If you guys cannot see the issue with this, then I have nothing more to say on the matter
dry leaf
You must buy laws of war to gain the charity trait
I see your point tho
I just think you worded it badly
little rampart
we can see the issue. But with other solutions there are also issues. BI has thought long and hard about it. This is the compromise they settled for
regal shuttle
I bought like 10 arma 3 kart to force people come make one single race with me π¦ they all said it was lame and we drove a kart in coop like 4 times since then.
muted narwhal
^^
i have supporter edition, bought some dlcs for some that had weren't able at some point (or were to cheap to)
little rampart
please no "10 times i charitied" π
muted narwhal
i also bought apex and gifted, same with the copy i received from BI
dry leaf
I mean im poor too
muted narwhal
for real dudes, if 22$ is such a pain, maybe you should be doing something else with your time then play games
dry leaf
I only have 7 yatchs
median lintel
Again, with the strawman
plush geyser
you're basically complaining about giving hard*working community members money
regal shuttle
I'm modding as student for 3 years when I could just earn something working at macdonalds
hopefully now I have a full time job and I can mod at night
plush geyser
how about you go complain about this face to face with the main dev of this project
π€
regal shuttle
awesome
plush geyser
then what's the complaint here
because you're basically saying they're being greedy
median lintel
No.
regal shuttle
several people are typ... poor
muted narwhal
π
plush geyser
i'm entirely sure this same discussion happened when tanoa came out
and yet nobody's really mad over the tanoa exclusivity
muted narwhal
it did yes
regal shuttle
when arma 3 alpha came out too
plush geyser
anymore
dry leaf
I have a problem to report, my friend who doenst own arma 3 cannot join my served
plush geyser
laughs in tanoa
median lintel
Yes, you should see how many communities use Tanao LUL
regal shuttle
"i dont need arma 3 I have all on arma 2"
plush geyser
mate if you're complaining about a bunch of people not having a spare $22, they probably shouldn't be playing video games
little rampart
ever again? You can play with it on monday and without it rest of the week...
plush geyser
and considering how expensive the average rig used to play arma is, frankly.
median lintel
Lol
plush geyser
if they can't afford $22 you're just fooling yourself.
you act like this is some major dlc that's going to be stuffed down your throats
you can just
NOT buy it
and play with modded
muted narwhal
can someone actually tell me what the problem is?
plush geyser
but you're just wanting to create arguments
median lintel
That's the conclusion most communities have come to, and that's the shame
muted narwhal
it is not a mandatory DLC
plush geyser
there really isn't a argument here
there's just some people being irritating because reasons
muted narwhal
i don't get the arguments for all this drama
median lintel
That's clear
delicate pumice
pretty sure they have money if they have an arma-capable rig
plush geyser
they joked about it just to annoy people like you.
dry leaf
^
muted narwhal
there will be islands
median lintel
https://twitter.com/Dslyecxi/status/1118520142227484672 Sums the issue well.
dry leaf
Don't go into an argument strawmanning people and expect then to treat you well
grand marten
its already required if you run jbad
muted narwhal
@median lintel oh lol no, is dyslexy again
dry leaf
Dslyyecxi's point kind of falls apart in the 6th part
arctic seal
CUP will make GM a dependency. Just for shits and giggles /s
muted narwhal
i am ecstatic
dry leaf
Quality and quantity do matter
grand marten
we siwtched the dependancy just to piss people off
median lintel
Oh, guess the person with running a community doesn't have a valid input. My bad.
muted narwhal
@arctic seal if CUP does that, so will RHS
plush geyser
@arctic seal can we make arma 3 karts a dependancy for all users who complain, just to force them to burn 99 cents?
π€
dry leaf
Yes
plush geyser
because if they pay up the 99 cents their entire argument would be invalid xd
little rampart
@muted narwhal well his point is "given the free mods available its not worth it" ... You heard him...
arctic seal
in case smb missed it, my comment was /s
dry leaf
cup and rhs comming together
arctic seal
π
dry leaf
Im so proud of this community
muted narwhal
the expectancy of the free mods is what bothers me
median lintel
No one is saying that, though. Are they?
muted narwhal
it has been all day
median lintel
Stop making the same disproven counter points then?
little rampart
it has been all arma
muted narwhal
and circle wise, i still cannot find arguments
plush geyser
they're not going to directly change it just because of a few angry people who don't want to shell out $22 for a few community devs that wanted to make money off of what they do
dry leaf
π€
muted narwhal
against it
plush geyser
that should be end of discussion here tbh
dry leaf
Yeah that's what puzzles me
plush geyser
(and yet, many people are typing.)
grand marten
im going back to lurking in the terrain channel this conversation is making me lose brain cells
little rampart
Γͺxpansions
grand marten
and i can afford any more
muted narwhal
π
grand marten
spent it all on a killer rig
dry leaf
If it was like 50 dollars for a Asimov MX i would understand
plush geyser
it's ok, i'm sure when this dlc launches your terrain-making life will be hurt more
tribal dragon
I'm not against it. I WOULD prefer if they treated it like DLC. So groups who want to play with the assets aren't all forced in buying. But for the map you'd have to and use of the assets. Would just be easier for a group because not everyone can always shell out more.
plush geyser
xd
tribal dragon
I have no problem shelling out 20$ for this pack.
median lintel
You cannot utilise the content within a community if you don't expect to alienate people, which is against the ethos of a community, where as with most previous content, you were able to. BI acknowledge this isn't ideal, and that's just the situation. Continuing to state that they should just have more money, or that they want it for free, and then wondering why people keep saying that's not the issue, is why it's circular.
regal shuttle
I have a fellow community member who said "fuck yeah, give me GM and #removemalden"
people are weirdos
dry leaf
What
tribal dragon
But sadly since the entirety the group I play with won't get it, I also probably won't or at least won't use it.
dry leaf
Whats bad about Malden
regal shuttle
he doesnt like it because it's mediteranean again
he is a #removemalden activist god knows why
delicate pumice
he should ask for a refund
little rampart
it would make sense if its about a server map cue
dry leaf
I want a refund for malden
little rampart
i'm also sick off altis buildings/terrain a bit
plush geyser
no no no
muted narwhal
lol
dry leaf
Arma cinematic universe?
plush geyser
it's based on a random island a bohemia dev got trapped on while devving arma 3
muted narwhal
π
muted narwhal
what is OFP?
dry leaf
That story is still funny to me
plush geyser
operation funny poke?
dry leaf
Sad too
regal shuttle
no that is altis, in malden they got raped by a bear
plush geyser
i believe it's operation funny poke.
little rampart
its a DLC for ... i forgot
dry leaf
Greece pls
tribal folio
π
(also pls cut General chat to #general_chat_arma, scanning this entire thing sucked)
dry leaf
Force Greece to buy all dlcs to everyone as an apology
muted narwhal
germany will pay for it anyways
regal shuttle
they can't, they are poor
faint moss
They can just loan money, right?
plush geyser
i'm entirely sure that the people complaining about this dlc are the same people who absolutely refuse to buy the DLC's unless they're on sale because "Muh wallet"
median lintel
Nope
muted narwhal
but they buy about 3-4 games a month anyways