#other_ip_topics | ARMA | Page 22

woeful zinc Jun 4, 2020, 11:24 AM

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unless you want to use MLODs

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that binarizes p3d? I would highly doubt it

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:24 AM

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He has to use MLOD's indeed.

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:25 AM

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I see the picture

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:25 AM

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What if tell you there is a custom made tools?
Weren't you just telling me I'm making up rules? Now you make up tools that don't exist (yet)?

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:25 AM

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Picture is simply usual to this channels - aggressive response on anything that is out of your argument.

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You did that, that's wrong
Look that's how I did that, that's fine
THAT'S WRONG

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:26 AM

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Dude, you are violating the EULA and are trying to justify it by just ignoring what is being told to you and trying to move the topic to different aspects

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:26 AM

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Dude you just told me I'm violating EULA by "selling" a google drive link

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OMEGALUL

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

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I never did

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and I already told you I didn't

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

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You called that a paywall

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

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at this point you're just playing dumb

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I didn't

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

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A paywall to a link you don't own

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

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I didn't

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Stop lying/missinterpreting about what I said please. Thanks.

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

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Do I seriously need to quote you on that?

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

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As I said I'm done arguing at this point. Do I take your response as a "I don't care, I'll continue doing it as I have been"?

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As I said multiple times take that illegal product of your shop. Its still up right now.

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:28 AM

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The issue is I don't care if it's going to be taken down. However I don't see any arguments on why.

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Listen there is a world outside where people are not obligated to do you what you think personally.

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:29 AM

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Its not what I think. Its the EULA that gives you rules about what you can do and what you cannot do.

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Pretty clear rules.

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:29 AM

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And I haven't seen any part of EULA saying that selling a google drive link is violation.

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Maybe for Google, yes.

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Didn't touch that yet.

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:29 AM

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Okey I have enough of this. Feel free to continue playing stupid elsewhere. I explained you half a dozen times and you still pretend like you didn't understand me

lilac sparrow Jun 4, 2020, 11:29 AM

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So now I'm stupid.

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Any worse argument?

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:30 AM

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!ban @lilac sparrow @tidal bridge 0 armaservices.net, illegal monetization of Arma 3 Tools.

bright brambleBOT Jun 4, 2020, 11:30 AM

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*fires them railguns at @lilac sparrow and @tidal bridge* Ò_Ó

umbral anvil Jun 4, 2020, 11:31 AM

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thank you @inland sphinx

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 11:32 AM

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🍿

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:34 AM

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I give my condolences to any Arma 3 shops that LEGALLY sell models and other content, and I'm happy for the Content creators that can pay their morning coffee from that.
The sad truth is that such legal schemes will never work, because there will be people like above who make it impossible for such a endevor to not be instantly attacked by people who had experiences with the above.
And as an additional factor of course the people, who will just not care about the effort you put into your work, and the moral restraint of not just giving away for free what others worked hard for and deserve to get something back for, who will just steal the content and give it away for free.
Or.. as above, just sell it to make their own profit from the content they just took from others who are not in a position to fight back.

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Or people like the below

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!ban 436546389795930122 0 armaservices.net, illegal monetization of Arma 3 Tools, ban evasion 199938370338553856

bright brambleBOT Jun 4, 2020, 11:38 AM

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*fires them railguns at @unreal canopy* Ò_Ó

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 11:39 AM

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@sleek lantern good luck. I hope you get your right.

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 11:54 AM

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woah @sleek lantern that website is so bad
they're literally selling a 3 lines Eventhandler code for 11$

wintry yoke Jun 4, 2020, 11:56 AM

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can the BI legal dep. not do anything with this?

lavish basalt Jun 4, 2020, 12:00 PM

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Uh oh, I'm too late to the party and I only find the site is really disgusting

strange shadow Jun 4, 2020, 12:06 PM

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go dedmen!

proud helm Jun 4, 2020, 1:11 PM

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@brave knot saw some people selling a crappy tool for 90$ that could pretty much do nothing at all and was known to crash a lot

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the arma life community is just weird

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 1:12 PM

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I'm astonished

proud helm Jun 4, 2020, 1:15 PM

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I'm astonished
Wait until i tell you that people actually paid that price and complained

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 1:16 PM

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I'm in a dilemma

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I would hope its just children but that would mean these people scam children
but if they aren't it means that grown adults though this was a good idea

proud helm Jun 4, 2020, 1:17 PM

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i personally just saw that and thought dafuq
ya knau, moma needs ta wurk for dem monez

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 1:46 PM

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https://bytex.market/products/item/qbjysjbthekqizp85dzp/Speedcameras
Here is a good example (the only one I could find...) of how to do it right.
No models behind a paywall, the models are truly freely available for anyone.
But the buying incentive are the scripts that give all the functionality to make the model useful for anything other than just a static prop.
And scripts you can legally sell and put behind a paywall.

That site also sells retextures, original content in png format.
The owner of that site actually cares AND checks what the vendors sell, and when told about something wrong they actually take it down as they are supposed to.
But as you can see, they are basically selling no models at all, because you cannot protect models and as I wrote above that it wouldn't make sense after the first one who bought it puts it up for free somewhere.

lavish basalt Jun 4, 2020, 1:50 PM

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I'm sorry that I'd have to acknowledge the rules properly by then, but let me ask something: selling things that are made from Arma 3 Tools will violate EULA of Arma 3 Tools?

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 1:53 PM

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Yes

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Arma 3 tools cannot be involved in something that will later on be monetized in any way (except if you are approved for monetzation by BI themselves)

woeful zinc Jun 4, 2020, 1:54 PM

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so you can sell configs? 🤔

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 1:54 PM

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as text files. technically yes

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 1:54 PM

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in thier raw form.

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 1:55 PM

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Though (unrelated to EULA) configs are not as clear cut. Due to potentially being a derivative, and as it contains classnames from other mods potentially

lavish basalt Jun 4, 2020, 1:55 PM

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Thus sqfs (which is essentially text files), png retextures are legal to sell because aren't made from Arma 3 Tools right?

celest sundial Jun 4, 2020, 1:55 PM

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Yes

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 1:57 PM

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cpp, like sqf is just a file extension, the contents if written by you, are yours, the difficulty with defining those is with any inheritances used within or reliance on other game functions (engine or scripted) to function themselves, those could probably fall under derivative, but they are reliant on existing game content to work.
And like any inheritance, you would inherit any licences the original class or script/function are licenced under.

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:00 PM

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I doubt anyone ever went to court for someone quoting part of a book you wrote and giving credit to the original.
Which is basically what a config.cpp with inheritance is, right?
Due to requiredAddons, you are inherently crediting the source of the class you mention lower and inherit

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:03 PM

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in that situation your aren't crediting, you are requiring those inheritance for your thing to function, without them your' software will not work.

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 2:04 PM

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are .cpp files created by BI?

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my main bible to follow when I think about monetization is "if Arma and BI would never exist" could I still do my job without issues?

celest sundial Jun 4, 2020, 2:05 PM

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I am not a layer - but I just had this topic of IP rights discussed with lawyers at university, so I will add my two cents to this debate.

It does not matter if need arma 3 to make use out of a script. the contents on an .sqf or .cpp file (assuming you wrote that all on your own) are 100% covered by the copyright laws and you are entitled to do anything you want with it. You are the author, you hold all rights. Copyright can only protect the expression of an idea, not the idea itself.
About the usage of certain sequences like "cfgvehicles". You can not, under no european law "copyright" this. You can not copyright charcaters or words, period. You CAN copyright trademarks to distinguish your goods, but trademarks do not apply to scripts. If you were to arrange a certain amount of words in a way where you invested interlectual work into it and it becomes a creation of your mind you are able to copright it then - but only then.

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:05 PM

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citing text in a book and referencing it is very different from requiring someone else's code for yours to function.
in the book analogy they could very easy change a citation for get their point across, with code you generally cannot, especially more-so where proprietary software (closed source) is used.

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:05 PM

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in that situation your aren't crediting
Well requiredAddons states the name of the mod where the class you're inheriting comes from.

celest sundial Jun 4, 2020, 2:06 PM

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Can I copy an existing cpp, change one line and say "i made this" - No, because this edit does not qualify as enough to be your interlectual work
Can i start a new text file from scratch adding only what i need for my own creation and do what ever i want with it? - Yes

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:07 PM

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About the usage of certain sequences like "cfgvehicles". You can not, under no european law "copyright" this. You can not copyright charcaters or words, period.
I would consider (although teeechnically not really true) CfgVehicles as part of the "Arma config programming language" and you cannot copyright a language.
I meant more things like B_Soldier_F but there what you wrote above applies

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:07 PM

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Well requiredAddons states the name of the mod where the class you're inheriting comes from.
again, that's not a credit/citation, thats a function of software to inherit values from another container.

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:08 PM

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But indirectly you state where thats from 🤔

to inherit values from another container
Thats inheritance, I meant specifically requiredAddons in CfgPatches

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 2:09 PM

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maybe the only thing you can copyright is function since they have BIS in them, although its currently owned by BI...?

celest sundial Jun 4, 2020, 2:09 PM

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And in the end if something seems similar and you claim "this was my creation, so this is my IP" a court will decide if the other party did indeed copy you or if the result was unavoidable to be the same. there are only x certain ways to achieve a function within a programming language and if the only way is to put x in that exact order then NO you can not claim copyright on it

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:09 PM

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That's like
"For this article I used the Book ABCDEF and the Book WXYZ

bla bla bla : ABC_blabla
bla bla bla : WXY_blabla
"

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:09 PM

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requiredAddons mean you require addon_A for your addon to function, it is still inheritance, just not class inheritance.

celest sundial Jun 4, 2020, 2:10 PM

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And on top of all of this, programming languages (if you want to call SQF one) CAN NOT be coprighted in the EU and not in the US as well, period.

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:10 PM

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maybe the only thing you can copyright is function since they have BIS in them
You mean trademark, cuz of the name?
"Arma 3" for example would be trademarked. Don't know if the BI/BIS abbrev is, I don't think so 🤔

celest sundial Jun 4, 2020, 2:11 PM

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If you want to read more on why programming languages can not be copyrighted and what part of a program you write can be, give the GOOGLE VS ORACLE case a go

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:11 PM

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Is ARMA 3 trademarked? I know, the trademark explicitely says no matter the capitalization btw

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:11 PM

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not the language, but the contents can be put under licence, otherwise things like GPL would not exist.

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 2:11 PM

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you fools
didn't you know you can just use "I do not own this content all credits go to authors"
for legal reasons thats a joke

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:15 PM

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Is ARMA 3 trademarked?
yeah

patent copper Jun 4, 2020, 2:17 PM

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+1 for the Google v Oracle court case, seems to be addressing what Uro was referring to

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:20 PM

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http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4807:8dewa8.2.23 if that link works

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Actually. Arma 3 doesn't seem to be.
Arma itself yes, Arma II yes, Arma 3 I can't find 🤔

lavish basalt Jun 4, 2020, 2:21 PM

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Session has expired it says

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:21 PM

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http://tmsearch.uspto.gov
basic sarch
Term: "Bohemia Interactive"
Field: "Owner Name"

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http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=77906846&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch this works tho
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=77905961&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch Arma in general

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Huh in late 2012 BI had the trademark for "DAYZ" use in "Bord Games" 🤔

old jay Jun 4, 2020, 2:31 PM

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Do consider than not only are you dealing with EU law, but also US law.

Additionally, one must be aware that even if you are doing something that is (on paper) 100% legal, do not think that you can't be arrested/taken to court and prosecuted for it.

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:33 PM

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Interestingly Bohemia just say that "ARMA" and "Bohemia Interactive" when they make trademark statements... e.g. see the keyboard overlay in ARMA 3

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:37 PM

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heh, just found this https://euipo.europa.eu/copla/bulletin/data/detail/ctm/018224707/2020_075
wonder what ORIGINAL WAR is, was filed 09/04/2020

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:38 PM

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🤔

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tried to find it on the US trademark site but can't find it.
But I found

MAKE GYROS NOT WAR

dark tulip Jun 4, 2020, 2:40 PM

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EN-9-Computer programs, recorded; Computer programs, downloadable; Computer software, recorded; Games software; Computer game software, downloadable; Downloadable computer game software via a global computer network and wireless devices; Software programs for video games; Computer game software downloadable from a global computer network; Computer game software for use on mobile and cellular phones; Computer game software, recorded; Downloadable computer games; Computer software applications, downloadable; Games software for use with video game consoles.

EN-41-Provision of on-line computer games; Providing a computer game that may be accessed network-wide by network users; Electronic games services, including provision of computer games on-line or by means of a global computer network; Providing on-line information in the field of computer gaming entertainment; Game services provided online from a computer network.

EN-42-Design of computer game software; Installation and maintenance of computer programs; Duplication of computer programs; Computer programming of computer games; Computer programming of video games; Computer software design.
Sounds like a game 😉

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:40 PM

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it's only filed, not registered yet

dark tulip Jun 4, 2020, 2:41 PM

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https://store.steampowered.com/app/235320/Original_War/

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:41 PM

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And LOL @inland sphinx Note the capitalization 🤣 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4807:x7qg0k.7.97

dark tulip Jun 4, 2020, 2:41 PM

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found it 🤣

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:41 PM

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Those links don't work Grahame

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:41 PM

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I was right all along

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:42 PM

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They need cookie context. But you can click the link in top left, the TSDR that gets a usable link

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:42 PM

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Serial number is 77905961

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:42 PM

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It says ARMA

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:42 PM

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Yep... ARMA 3 🙂

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:42 PM

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on TSDR its only Arma, without the 3

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:42 PM

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I win! 😉

dark tulip Jun 4, 2020, 2:43 PM

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btw... that steam shop link is the actual game called "Original War", published by BI

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:43 PM

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No... It is just ARMA... But it is capitalized

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:43 PM

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Weird that they get a trademark for that now 🤔 for a 19 year old game

dark tulip Jun 4, 2020, 2:43 PM

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probably bought the IP?

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:43 PM

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No... It is just ARMA... But it is capitalized
Notice anything concerning capitalization?

📎 firefox_2020-06-04_16-43-43.png

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:44 PM

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Yeah... the standard character mark ignores it

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:44 PM

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probably bought the IP?
Afaik Altar Games merged into BI looong ago

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:44 PM

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But note that the image in the trademark entry was submitted by BI as an example of their mark

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:45 PM

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DayZ is also written as DAYZ in the example

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Its still DayZ tho

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:45 PM

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Makes sense that they trademark just ARMA though... Then they don't need to get a new one for each new game I'd guess

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:47 PM

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same on euipo, it's only ARMA they have registered,.

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:49 PM

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The standard character mark says that "The mark consists of standard characters without claim to any particular font style, size, or color" though

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:50 PM

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covers all bases

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:50 PM

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And as for applicability to any ARMA game... here is the image BI submitted as a specimen http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn77905961&docId=SPE20170201152731#docIndex=2&page=1

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:50 PM

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Uh amazon

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:51 PM

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Don't remember the arma site being hosted by atari... 🤷

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http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn77905961&docId=SPE20100109064920#docIndex=12&page=1

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:52 PM

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That's ArmA, was published by multiple

505 Games, IDEA Games, Licomp.Empik.Multimedia, Morphicon, akella, Atari SA

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:52 PM

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there is also images from Steam pages in there Grahame

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they are probably just supporting evidence to back up filing.

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 2:53 PM

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Yeah. Standard procedure on trademarks

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Amazing what else has been trademarked for ARMA... including gear for horses... (You can use the same name if in business not claimed by the other trademark owners, e.g. I could potentially open a bar called ARMA, and then two more called ARMA II and ARMA 3 😉 )

elfin coral Jun 4, 2020, 2:54 PM

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ARMA III 😉

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 2:55 PM

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open a Arma 3 bar in Mnisek 🤣

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guaranteed income

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 2:56 PM

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wait did they copyright F?

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 3:03 PM

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Interestingly they trademarked DayZ for PC games... then had to do a later one for consoles. Bit of a lack of forethought there ladz 😉

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 5:03 PM

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Someone seems unhappy 🤔 (censored profanity)

📎 Discord_2020-06-04_19-02-57.png

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If anyone wants to read up how i never said anything against his google drive link and he just started playing stupid and pretending to not have heard me say that over and over again, I intentionally left almost (links that promote his illegal webshop were removed) the full conversation up for people to read

dark tulip Jun 4, 2020, 5:07 PM

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I'd follow it, and it was clear to me what you tried to explain him... He just tried to bypass the EULA which he obviously failed, and couldn't give any reason on why that would be legal (since you can't).
Now we wait for BI to take actions against that shop 😉

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 5:07 PM

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People say we are unfair by just banning people, instead of trying to tell them what they did wrong and helping them to fix it.
This is a example of what happens when you try to reason with such people.
We now have the same outcome as if I had just banned him without saying anything, with the only difference being that due to me trying to explain to him he's now launching personal attacks against me to try to hide his failure in trying to justify his wrongdoings.

obsidian cypress Jun 4, 2020, 5:18 PM

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He also proceeded to compare what happened here and racial discrimination... This is just the perfect example of why lifer's rep. is so low.

And yet you've been incredibly patient with him, the hammer usually drops way faster than that 😄

wintry yoke Jun 4, 2020, 5:21 PM

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So now that he was banned... is there going to be further consequences to his monetization of the a3 tools?

inland sphinx Jun 4, 2020, 5:22 PM

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BI legal will take care of the rest

wintry yoke Jun 4, 2020, 5:22 PM

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Righto

brave knot Jun 4, 2020, 5:23 PM

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whoever handles this legal lifer stuff for BI every day must really want to die

turbid meadow Jun 4, 2020, 10:54 PM

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BI legal will take care of the rest
Sooo a meanly worded letter with a frowny face?

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Assuming that this is on the same level of the punishment that anzus has gotten

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(the punishments that I'm aware of that is)

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I dunno what the 'getting BE turned off for a day or two' equivalent is for a digital shop though

abstract crest Jun 4, 2020, 10:57 PM

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I suspect that they go for the hoster in this case tbh... "someone is illegally selling stuff on your computers, fix it"

turbid meadow Jun 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

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Yeah if they actually do anything it'll props be against the hoster

wintry yoke Jun 5, 2020, 9:45 AM

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just reading that hurts my brain

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awh where it go? @inland sphinx

inland sphinx Jun 5, 2020, 9:46 AM

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I broke our rules

Messages of banned members are also considered as spam.

wintry yoke Jun 5, 2020, 9:47 AM

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oh no, you must ban yourself now? 😛

inland sphinx Jun 5, 2020, 9:48 AM

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I removed the rule violators post as a punishment 🙂

wintry yoke Jun 5, 2020, 9:48 AM

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anyway, the guy's spending way too much time on it

lean plover Jun 5, 2020, 10:51 AM

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@wintry yoke
not everyone can be a cold hearted b**ch like you are 😛

wintry yoke Jun 5, 2020, 11:26 AM

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slight ree

rose tree Jun 5, 2020, 1:12 PM

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You may as well be saying " but racism was ok in my day". Its **not **ok and never has been. Neither is content theft.
@old jay Imagine comparing a phenomena that has oppressed millions of people to someone retexturing/reuploading content for a 7 year old videogame. I’m not saying I condone reuploading/breaking IP violations, but it is incredibly cringeworthy to treat these two things like two sides of the same coin.

old jay Jun 5, 2020, 1:14 PM

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You are absolutely correct, they are NOT equal. I just chose an obvious example to highlight the difference.

wet gate Jun 5, 2020, 5:39 PM

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YEAH!!! The workshop crawler is working again! Now I get to spend too much time sending people who can't follow simple freakin instructions DMCAs! It's not like I wanted to be in a good mood today anyways. pssh!

strange shadow Jun 5, 2020, 5:52 PM

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too bad you can't drone strike them instead huh?

wet gate Jun 5, 2020, 6:04 PM

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DMCA notice via drone strike. You might be on to something there.

wet narwhal Jun 5, 2020, 8:15 PM

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Amazon would do it

dark tulip Jun 7, 2020, 12:35 AM

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A question/thought I will put here, but be assured I will also contact BI and others beforehand.
As some may have seen in #community_wiki am I currently working on a (unofficial) offline tool with data provided from the wiki (with help from Lou).
And even though it's a community wiki (for and by the community) do I still believe that the contents belong to BI in all forms, meaning IP, copyright and the whole legal package.

While reading through the EULA and "Game Content Usage Rules" at the BI website I noticed the following:

All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles, computer code, themes, objects, methods of operation, any related documentation, and addons incorporated into the Program) are owned by Bohemia Interactive a.s. (the "Licensor") or its licensors. The Program is protected by the Czech copyright laws, international copyright treaties and conventions and any other applicable laws. All rights are reserved.
~ https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/bohemia-interactives-tools-end-user-license

You may develop your own game content, tools, plug-ins and other utilities or services for both noncommercial and commercial use as long as it is your original creation, without using the content, tool or any other intellectual property of Bohemia Interactive.
~ https://www.bohemia.net/community/game-content-usage-rules

And the mention of the "Sui Generis Database Rights" in the APL licences, which basically forbids any copy and/or modification to database content.

This scares me a bit... since it basically means that it would be impossible to release anything related to an offline wiki...

That said; nothing will be released until BI gives their explicit permission, although I wonder if there are any other things I should keep in mind before publishing.

inland sphinx Jun 7, 2020, 12:55 AM

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https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Meta:General_disclaimer

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all you should need

old jay Jun 7, 2020, 1:03 AM

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Written consent (rightly or wrongly) from BI, should protect you.

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Res ipsa loquitur

dark tulip Jun 7, 2020, 1:04 AM

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Thank you Dedmen! That is exactly the answer I was looking for.

So in short; as long as it remains non-commercial (which it will) it's OK to use the content from the wiki in the tool.
Although it doesn't confirm the EULA and other rules BI has set up, so I will contact BI anyway just to be 100% safe.

inland sphinx Jun 7, 2020, 1:10 AM

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EULA is for Arma

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wiki is not arma

dark tulip Jun 7, 2020, 1:12 AM

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although the functions/configs are from Arma, and as the EULA states that the methods of operation and documentation are part of the IP, hence my confusion

abstract crest Jun 7, 2020, 1:13 AM

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A computer language is open afaik if they open it up... There was some discussion of that earlier

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Either way, check with Karel and you'll probably be sorted

dark tulip Jun 7, 2020, 1:18 AM

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I'll just keep working on it till I have a working demo, send that to BI for review and the question for permission and then it should all be good to go.

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:28 PM

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@meager saffron why do you think that it is okay for people to steal others content (which arguably has way more time involved than some simple screenshots)... Just curious

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taking something that is not yours against the wishes and EULA or license of the product/content

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just the most standard definition of stealing

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funny you say you guys dont chat but you all use the same dEfIne sTeALinG line

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thats the only reason to ask for a definition lol

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is if you already have an opinion and know a bit about the subject

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because clearly you dont think its stealing

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its a screenshot using stolen content

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is driving a stolen car wrong if you know its stolen and someone just gave it to you?

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you didnt do the stealing... but youre very aware its stolen

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let me phrase it even better actually

#

Car maker A designs a car, spends a lot of time on engineering and then releases the car. Some people buy the car but others wait for maker B to steal the car designs and make their own trashier version that is a mixture of multiple other makers cars. Maker A sees people using that car and loses interest in making their next generation of the car. Maker B then doesnt really have anything to make their own new version because all they can do is mix up stolen designs so their quality of 'work' also deteriorates... is it right of you to continue to use Maker Bs car and tell all your friends about it by sharing some photography youre taking of it?

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:47 PM

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is the question related to a screenshot in which stolen content is used or to the content that is stolen?

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is the question related to a screenshot in which stolen content is used or to the content that is stolen?
Yes wasn't one of the options though 😉

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:49 PM

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im aware you are ignorant

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"yes... but again, i don't really see the issue"

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so you agree it is wrong

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tldr

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it matters because they are supporting stealing content and degrading the modding community

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:50 PM

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okay so the discussion is regarding the screenshot of stolen content and not the stolen content itself?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:51 PM

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yeah

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:51 PM

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righto

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:51 PM

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but they also distribute the stolen content amongst eachother

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even paying a decent amount of money for some stolen stuff lol

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$100 isnt too much to pay for some stolen gear from another mod that is free

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:51 PM

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any links to that screenshot or the content?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:52 PM

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but $5 patreon is us milking the userbase yes

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r/armaphotography

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theres been a huge influx of stolen stuff

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@meager saffron so you support content theft then

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:53 PM

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Right, so sharing the screenshot isn't illegal, although by doing so you're technically saying you endorse people stealing content, which is frowned upon but not illegal

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:53 PM

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@wintry yoke it is illegal

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:53 PM

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Spreading a screenshot of the content is?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:53 PM

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Steam allows DMCAs of stolen content

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obviously that doesn't extend to screenshots of the stolen content... but they are doing what they can

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:54 PM

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endorsing it, yes

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:54 PM

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lol

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youre not as smart as you think you are @meager saffron

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let me relate this to something you do, what in really general terms do you do for a living

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thats where we are different I dont think I am nice

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I am fair

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not nice

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 4:55 PM

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Excuse me, but the screenshot alone has nothing to do with anything. All the assets in the scene could be stolen, does that lower the artistic value? No.

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:56 PM

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I must admit though that for someone to produce said screenshots, they'd have to be involved in the content theft. However, if you're just sharing a screenshot you didn't take but just found looking cool, I'm not sure that's equal to stealing the content in it

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:56 PM

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@wintry yoke correct

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But you see @meager saffron is a moderator on that page.... it does him no harm to have a rule that says something like we dont support content theft you cant place your images with stolen content here

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in fact they had that rule

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 4:57 PM

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Why would the page that hosts the images care? Why would people looking the images care?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:58 PM

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the only reason they removed it is because the main guy who owns the place went through what is effectively a highschool falling out with everyone and then to get back he decided he would support content theft

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@celest sundial people looking at the images care because they want to play with those mods lol....

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that whole aspect is really really simple....

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 4:58 PM

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And from what it looks like the screenshot in question credited the mod that was used.

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:58 PM

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lol

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 4:58 PM

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If the mod stole if from somewhere else, blame the mod author not the person that used the mod

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:58 PM

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'private mods"

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@meager saffron I didnt as I didnt even know who you were until an hour ago

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but I do support the ban as you support content theft

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:59 PM

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what ban?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:59 PM

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@celest sundial yes but by using those mods in their screenshots they are supporting the theft of content lol.....

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 4:59 PM

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no need, a TL:DR will do

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 4:59 PM

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No they are not

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 4:59 PM

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@meager saffron yeah we dont really care

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@celest sundial they are, that isnt really whats up for debate here lol

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you can try to explain why it isnt but youll be wrong

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:00 PM

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more in line of saving time to write an essay... I am curious to the background

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If he's just the moderator, he isn't the one that's guilty of stealing the content and shouldn't be punished for it

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:01 PM

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keep in mind most of these screenshot guys are making screenshots for other screenshot guys.... in the sense that they are just making them to show off to other screenshot enthusiasts lol... so yes... it is supporting content theft

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@wintry yoke we ban for support of content theft and stealing

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:01 PM

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Now flagging the screenshot as "Uses stolen content" or whatever would show at least some solidarity to the original authors of the content

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:01 PM

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a good bottom line standard

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:01 PM

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you mean on the discord?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:01 PM

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nah from our stupid little reddit page

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its really not even worth visiting as its just some WIP images

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:02 PM

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Posts with the intention to promote a mod that uses stolen assets would be considered promotion. If I use a mod to make a screenshot beause it looks cool that is totally not related. And this will have to be assumed if the person making the screenshot and mod author are unrelated.

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:03 PM

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@meager saffron yes but you do support it, and you are going about the same 'define stealing' thing every single one of you does.....

#

so forgive me for not believing you are totally unaware of that issue lmao

#

@celest sundial so you support content theft

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:03 PM

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I think that as long as you use publicly a stolen mod thats supporting its use and creation

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:03 PM

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It is

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:04 PM

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wait, where did warden ban the subreddit mod team?

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:04 PM

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Not sure how this Reddit feud is related to this discord...

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:04 PM

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@wintry yoke just from our dumb reddit page

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idk why he even cares

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he probably didnt even know it existed

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:04 PM

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you mean r/arma?

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or the USP one

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:05 PM

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@meager saffron again, I didnt ban you, but if you support content theft then yes its fair game you get banned

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@wintry yoke the USP one

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yeah ik right lmao

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who cares

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:06 PM

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what keeps the moderators from re-instating the anti-stolen content rule?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:06 PM

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alright so I'll apologize for assuming you were and most likely are very aware of all this since its been discussed numerous times on your subreddit thing

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either way you are still supporting content theft

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:06 PM

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the fact that they use stolen content themselves

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@wintry yoke

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:07 PM

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@inland sphinx ^^

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:07 PM

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wait, really?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:07 PM

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Its largely because TheSenDest got bored of having to wait a month for new content from the USP dev build that he had special access to

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he thought it was insane that we werent pumping out content for his amazing screenshots and so he got upset

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probably a good idea

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but you know how I love a good roast

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:08 PM

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if we keep the conversation about wheter its right or wrong to use stolen content in screenshots then I don't see why not using this channel
but if its just about that sub then we can take it to Dms or whatever I guess

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:09 PM

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@meager saffron I will unban you since it isnt fair to lump all moderators of that discord into one thing

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:09 PM

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solution? Reinstate the anti-stolen content rule

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:10 PM

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and actually follow it

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:10 PM

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there is no such thing as private mods really

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:11 PM

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@meager saffron unfortunately though I will have to ban you again for supporting stolen content

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:11 PM

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privately usually means shared secretely rather than just make a mod and not pubilshing it

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:11 PM

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so really nothing changes

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:11 PM

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because if content thieves see the mods is being used they feel legitimated for what they do

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:11 PM

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there are never actually private

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:12 PM

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I also have private mods... But nothing illegal in there...

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:12 PM

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@meager saffron why not just make the rule "if the content is stolen, the screenshots are not allowed here. Be it public or private mods."?

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:12 PM

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And stolen content is stolen content... No matter if it's public or not...

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:12 PM

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@wintry yoke because then they cant use their own stolen content

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:12 PM

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Considering the author of a screenshot to be supporting content theft just because he used props in the scene that were make taken from some other place is ridiculous and not how the world works. You have some very odd views.

Artists often use things they did not create as proterty in their scene. The objects dont matter. That is not what the artist made. It was his idea for the scene and how he arranged lighting etc. And that is what he wanted to share.

The only case in which this would be considered against any rules would be, if the artist is either the auhtor or works with the author of a mod that uses stolen assets. Which I assume so far is not the case.

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:12 PM

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wow thats the most stupid take ive heard yet on that @meager saffron

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:13 PM

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private mod is never wip stuff

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it is, is 99% of the cases

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ripped stuff

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:14 PM

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people just like to conflate the two so that stolen stuff seems more legitimate

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:14 PM

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that will never be released

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because it has been ripped from other mods or games

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:14 PM

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@celest sundial you can't really make analogies with the outer world when talking about screenshots
the closest thing would be painters using copyrighted paint
which is a thing that exists btw

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:16 PM

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@meager saffron what's the "official" reason that there is no (longer) "stolen content not allowed here" rule?

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OK, so then there would be nothing against creating such a rule?

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:17 PM

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if you read the announcement its clearly because the admin itself didn't like said rule
in a convo he explicited he "didn't want to wait a month for stuff to be released"

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:17 PM

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it is a subreddit, with no relationship to BI

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i would simply ban everyone that runs that reddit from all official platforms and be done with the drama

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it isn’t, there are rules on all offices channels

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:19 PM

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why should it.
To remove the incentive for others to look up and use the stolen content. Also to officially denounce support for users and 'creators' of stolen content

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:19 PM

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which weren’t made up so that some nobody that runs some subreddit can post images of ripped stuff

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morally, there would be, but with some people you simply cannot be bothered

fiery egret Jun 8, 2020, 5:22 PM

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@brave knot : Arkensor you can't really make analogies with the outer world when talking about screenshots
Actually, FYI, you can: you're not allowed to take photos of the Eiffel Tower at night because "The lights on the tower are an artistic work" (so they are copyrighted), for example

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:22 PM

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I think you're not allowed to sell them

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:22 PM

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@fiery egret :))) you can if you get permission

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:22 PM

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but you can take them

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:22 PM

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I just don't understand how this discord is related to any random Reddit page...
And why this discussion is even in here...

fiery egret Jun 8, 2020, 5:22 PM

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Of course! @zealous ore

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:22 PM

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we are also talking about screenshots with stolen IPs @dark tulip

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:23 PM

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you are not allowed to use them in articles or publish em / or use commercially

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:23 PM

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lmao @meager saffron why did you reban me from your reddit

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I was already banned and you did it for the same reason

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:23 PM

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That's something else, although even there BI is clear about the rules; not allowed

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:23 PM

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is this now just a ban out of spite/revenge?

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:23 PM

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@wintry yoke yeah lmao

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hes mad I made him look like an idiot

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:24 PM

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that is defenitely offtopic

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:24 PM

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@brave knot Contrary to what Warden_1 wants to believe, i am not defending content theft. As at least Pufu here will know i am far on the opposite side :)
I am defending the right of content creators to create art (does not matter if it is a screenshot or if he painted that scene on canvas) using any sorts of props.
It might be morally wrong to use props that you know have been stolen, but even if you do, your art is just as good. People might dislike the backgrounds of it, but only the art itself matters. If you show it to someone without any context and he thinks "oh this is nice" that should be alright and nobody is to blame.
I will assume the original author has not protected the appearance of the mod items, sooo in which case you can just use them. If the scene could have been created in the same way using the "original" assets it does not matter if he used stolen ones for when he actually took the photo

errant pawn Jun 8, 2020, 5:25 PM

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https://discordapp.com/channels/105462288051380224/547515791579545600/719597096424046665
Does banning @zenith moss mean that you do more than just the Stylesheet? @meager saffron

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:25 PM

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If you let the artist know "oh well you use and credit a mod that steals" i am sure the artis would instead point people to the original source

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:25 PM

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@celest sundial "If the scene could have been created in the same way using the "original" assets it does not matter if he used stolen ones for when he actually took the photo" dumb take

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:25 PM

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@celest sundial that is a very good way to propagate the ripped stuff

willow crane Jun 8, 2020, 5:25 PM

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To be honest the key thing about all of this for me is the problem of "promoting ripped content." Thats it...

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:25 PM

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well @celest sundial I doubt Bf4 devs have ever been interested in making arma 3 screenshots or mods
so my idea shifts on the "its stolen"

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:26 PM

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@shell scaffold you don't understand that your not allowed use illegal/stolen content?

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:26 PM

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@celest sundial - more on the point, if the artistry doesn’t come from the ripped stuff, but from composition, lighting etc

#

why need to use that in the first place

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:27 PM

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If I steal a car and drive it on the road without breaking rules, does that make it legal? Or only when I also drive too fast?

#

It is...

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:28 PM

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like I said before

#

Car maker A designs a car, spends a lot of time on engineering and then releases the car. Some people buy the car but others wait for maker B to steal the car designs and make their own trashier version that is a mixture of multiple other makers cars. Maker A sees people using that car and loses interest in making their next generation of the car. Maker B then doesnt really have anything to make their own new version because all they can do is mix up stolen designs so their quality of 'work' also deteriorates... is it right of you to continue to use Maker Bs car and tell all your friends about it by sharing some photography youre taking of it?

#

It is wrong

#

What you are doing us supporting it

#

You are contributing to the eventual decline of Arma modding

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:28 PM

#

@shell scaffold what?

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:29 PM

#

This has been discussed many times with the same result:
It is NOT allowed to share illegal content, or content based on illegal content.

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:30 PM

#

that's not related to the virtual arsenal @shell scaffold 😛

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:30 PM

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yeah don't really see the connection
the virual arsenal is just a glorified box

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:30 PM

#

It is part of the scene WAHT you put in there and not only the objects itself. Here is a different view: If i put all models that were stolen by their sides on a white background and post it somewhere to promote my mod, that serves little to none artistic value. The main interest was to promote the models and achieve something with it, maybe clicks on the workshop item page or something. If I have a nice screenshot idea in mind but i miss assets to make this, i just get them. If i was to find a workshop mod that offers these without any obvious hints that the mod is made with stolen assets, why would i be to blame to use them for my cool screenshot idea?

#

It comes down to the intention of WHY did the person create the screenshot.

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:31 PM

#

You are then promoting that content

#

regardless of intent

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:31 PM

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the issue

#

is that that former rule

#

has been canned

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:31 PM

#

As long as you know its stolen you are at fault

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:31 PM

#

so “private mods”

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:31 PM

#

Promote the mod, yeah that's lame.
Express their creativity for arts sake, that is totally fine and something everybody does

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

you're implying that screenshot are either for publicity(on purpose and not) or for art
not both

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:32 PM

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aka ripped mods shared between various ppl

#

can be used

#

very unlikely considering post history

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:32 PM

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and they all know these mods are stolen because they share them amongst eachother since they are often removed from steam... even going as far as paying for stolen stuff that is mixed with BF4 or MW or something to give them additional cool items to show off in screenshots

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

from today alone

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:32 PM

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he achieved the smart just now

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

If the artist used models that he knows which were stolen and links to the place where the stolen assets are to be downloaded then yes of course that is promotion of stolen assets

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

he doesn’t need to post anything

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

the artist shouldn't have content stolen in the first place

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

he’ll get a couple of pms

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

@celest sundial all of these screenshotters put "private mods ;)" in their mod list..... they are clearly trying to flex on others that they have some exclusive cool stolen mods lol...

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:33 PM

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he’ll share the “pirvate mods” further

errant pawn Jun 8, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

@celest sundial What about screenshots that contain BI's IP in them? That has always been an issue. Is there a disconnect from that to the content of individuals?
Posting ripped content often leads to further spreading of it. I'm sure you are aware of how that happens, you've seen it yourself. That is one of the reasons why it isn't allowed on the regular ARMA channels afaik.

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:33 PM

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nah @celest sundial just using them is promotion

#

because at the end of the day all these screenshot guys want is new stuff to put in their pictures and show off

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:35 PM

#

can we please conclude this

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:35 PM

#

if that is your screenshot using stolen MGS models then yes you are

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

its a discussion
we either give up or convice the other part
not like this channel has high traffic anyway

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

what is there to discuss

#

private subreddit, run by morally bent people

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

You started the debate right in the middle of something, so I might not have all the backgrounds. Point is, if i make screenshots with a cool mod i found on the workshop and it turns out those were stolen assets, blame the mod author not the person who made a screenshot. He had no idea about it.

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

you would wish MGS1 had such cool models @meager saffron Nyte

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:37 PM

#

If you use mods in screenshots, then why not share which mods have been used?
If something is custom made and kept private, no problem, although be aware a moderator can ask for verification.
All other cases are questionable and up to mods to react to it.

If that means removing content due to known illegal stuff, so be it

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:37 PM

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@celest sundial sure, but if you take the same screen with mod that has been shared with you with - do not share this private mod further

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:37 PM

#

lol....

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:37 PM

#

@meager saffron they have livestream where they make the models themselves

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:37 PM

#

I think you are a lot more familiar with screenshots than just doing HTML on reddit @meager saffron

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:38 PM

#

Please stay on topic of this channel (and discord), see #rules

wet narwhal Jun 8, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

@meager saffron Don't be a ..... You're giving dutch people a bad name dennis.

#

Fill that in yourself, there's this no profanity rule of any kind so im gonna try and stay out of trouble this time by not mentioning the possibilities. @meager saffron

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:41 PM

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@celest sundial the moment you stick - private mod in that list of mods you used

#

it’s obvious

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:41 PM

#

was trying to understand what does the MGSR mod has to do with all of this @meager saffron

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:41 PM

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is that all you know? An eye for an eye? @meager saffron

wet narwhal Jun 8, 2020, 5:41 PM

#

@meager saffron Ah #rules ! No profanity of any kind!

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:41 PM

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yeah because its obvious you are pretending to be some naive kid and then thinking youre the smartest one here who can run mental circles around us... trust me you arent lmao

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

@celest sundial how do you unkowingly use stolen stuff
genuine question

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

@zealous ore that might very much be the case yes. This screenshot here was linked: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2117019834 and this did not list and private stuff but only credited what the artist most likely believed was a proper source of his assets

Steam Community :: Screenshot :: ~~ 104 st ~~

Steam Community: Arma 3. ~~ 104 st ~~

wet narwhal Jun 8, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

@wintry yoke I just saw you reaction, and you're so god damn right with that sentence 😂

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

you gotta be more specific than "your reaction"

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

@celest sundial that is fine

vast stump Jun 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

@meager saffron stop blaming warden and answer me this. Yes or No, do you endorse/support/condone use of ripped/stolen models in mods.

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

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i mean the average joe

wet narwhal Jun 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

The doe niet zo lullig

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

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doesn’t really know he is in the wrong

vast stump Jun 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

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then that is a yes

#

and not a no

#

they are

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:44 PM

#

then the question is
how do you use stolen stuff if you're against their use

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:44 PM

#

Then indeed that is a yes. if you do not care about the origin of the props used, then people can say you willing support content theft

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:44 PM

#

@meager saffron so if you do not support stolen content then you have no problem stepping down from that reddit page

#

and saying why you stepped down

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:44 PM

#

warden, just stop with the schoolground insults

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:44 PM

#

Consider @zealous ore a bi.net ...

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

@zenith moss we talked about this
insulting only brings lower the conversation quality

wintry yoke Jun 8, 2020, 5:46 PM

#

anyway @meager saffron if you say you support screenshots regardless of the used mods, you are technically saying you support the content theft. "Regardless of used mods" means "all mods" which are both the illegal and legal mods

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 5:46 PM

#

Good, so now we can talk IP.topics instead of random Reddit stuff...

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:48 PM

#

lmao yeah youll never convince them though so idc these days

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:50 PM

#

Well at least we sorted out the cirteria for if someone is to blame or not. If X says "I don't care that i use stolen assets to make my screenshots, I will continue to do so" you are free to blame X for that. And we as community have a lot of reasons to say, we want to exclude people who "do not care" from our boards

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:51 PM

#

still I don't get how you accidentally do that

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

!purgeban 289831354244399105 90d for IP rights violations and supporting content theft.

bright brambleBOT Jun 8, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

*PewPewPew!!*
RIP @frank pecan

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

wait what?

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:54 PM

#

!purgeban 106666259680088064 30d for supporting/endorsing content theft

bright brambleBOT Jun 8, 2020, 5:54 PM

#

*PewPewPew!!*
RIP @meager saffron

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:54 PM

#

Zero Tolerance

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 5:54 PM

#

thanks

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:54 PM

#

don't really see the point in banning malecat more than nytemyre

potent moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:54 PM

#

still I don't get how you accidentally do that

#

?

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:55 PM

#

oh you're right @potent moss

potent moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:55 PM

#

Why'd my post get deleted?

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:55 PM

#

Lets not promote stolen content, thanks

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:55 PM

#

we are not?

potent moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:55 PM

#

I wasn't promoting it? Just giving an example.

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:56 PM

#

And you called it out by name. Lets not promote stolen content

potent moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:56 PM

#

Ok...

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:56 PM

#

but it has been deleted hasn't it

#

the mod

potent moss Jun 8, 2020, 5:57 PM

#

It has been. It was linked in #ip_rights_violations and removed the same day if I remember correctly.

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:57 PM

#

If there ever a good time to stop discussing this, now would be it.

golden topaz Jun 8, 2020, 5:57 PM

#

Missed the discussion, anyone got a tl;dr?

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

Don't violate the rules.

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

I don't really understand why we can't discuss ip topics in the #other_ip_topics channel
but sure I guess since every other part of the conversation got banned

celest sundial Jun 8, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

Stealing IP = Bad

old jay Jun 8, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

Thats the TLDR

golden topaz Jun 8, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

Fair enough

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:22 PM

#

you didn't? because it looked exactly like you did just that

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:23 PM

#

from what I remember he just asked why it was wrong and then understood
he did say some stupid stuff but giving him 3 times the bandays of the guy who actually supported stealing is weird

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

people fail to understand that there is a zero tolerance policy around here for IP theft, ripping, stealing, etc

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

yeah I can understand the ban
but why 3 times as NyteMyre?

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

it;s gonna be more ban now, since this is a second account

#

in any case, take it in private

#

:))) obviously

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

wow that was enjoyable

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:27 PM

#

discussing IP issues is fine, but supporting certain behaviors is not supporting anymore

#

#rules

#

seems like you very much did so

#

but whatever

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

I still haven't got an answer tho

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

about what?

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

why the 90 days instead of 30 for nyte

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

no idea

#

since i would have banned nyte for good

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

doubt sarcarsm is gonna help

vast stump Jun 8, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

its not really good to joke about this stuff

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

issue with text, is that sarcas cannot really be understood the same way

#

then you wonder why you get banned

#

not really

zenith moss Jun 8, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

its not even a good joke

#

if youre going to risk a ban at least make it funny

#

just my two cents

zealous ore Jun 8, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

yeah, i did say that

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

shame that banned people get their messages deleted
I don't remember his part of the conversation

meager fractal Jun 8, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

do not advertise/promote stolen content… a.k.a support them

#

to anyone wondering

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

yeah we had an extensive discussion about it

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

@shell scaffold I would read the #rules and Discord ToS regarding multiple accounts and discussing moderator decisions...

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

is sysop still with BI
never heard of him?

dark tulip Jun 8, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

It's not a person it's a group, with one person (Dwarden)...

#

System Operators

brave knot Jun 8, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

oh lol

chrome plinth Jun 9, 2020, 2:37 AM

#

⚠️
Twitch just started war vs own streamers because of music https://www.twitch.tv/p/legal/community-guidelines/music/
e.g. https://twitter.com/fuslie/status/1269553773506002945 hunt streamers even 3-4 years back via theirs VOD archives !
accounts can be permanently banned, remember some game music "licensed only for limited time to the game itself" !
(failure to utilize FAIR royalty split between the service/streamer vs the IP owner via automated means based on usage)
fact: Twitch (Amazon) was making billions in past 10 years on streamers which had music/songs in background
thus partly guilty by default (i think it's very similar problem in relation to game-mods, other content w/o IP approval)

Twitch.tv

Twitch.tv - Music

fuslie (@fuslie)

I’ve been issued 2 copyright strikes on my channel (both from clips over a year old) in the past week and told that if they find one more violation in my clips, my twitch account will be permabanned. (1/4)

Retweets

1281

Likes

13442

vast stump Jun 9, 2020, 3:00 AM

#

thats going to ruffle some feathers

chrome plinth Jun 9, 2020, 3:04 AM

#

we need neural network powered filters to remove background music completely 😁

vast stump Jun 9, 2020, 3:07 AM

#

so basically streamers got to turn off music and play something that they can be sure is free on the background?

#

to be safe from now on?

abstract crest Jun 9, 2020, 3:24 AM

#

Well, all we know from that is that Twitch went after some people... we don't really know what those people did. Afaik both Twitch and YouTube provide music libraries for use in streams of stuff that will not get you into trouble - coincidently was watching someone stream DayZ today who put on Twitch music while relieving himself, came back and replayed the last song saying "I didn't know that song was on the Twitch list... Love that song"...

#

And we are all strong supporters of people's IP rights, so... 🤷

chrome plinth Jun 9, 2020, 3:28 AM

#

imagine being small streamer who does it for fun, how the hell he know that in game he played 4 years ago,
was licensed music for limited time, hell even twitch own suggested playlist (paid/free of royalties) had songs inserted
and removed based on expiration or when the owner withdrawn from the deal w/e
now that streamer recently became partner, pays for music and plays royalty free music only, gets banned for that 4 years old vod in archive
don't get me on remasters of old popular music, which is causing perfectly legal royalty free music being flagged (typical example youtube)

#

that's the thing @abstract crest even theirs own list isn't persistent guarantee it is or it was royalty free (relation to archive hunt)

abstract crest Jun 9, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

Oh. That's different, and not good

chrome plinth Jun 9, 2020, 3:47 AM

#

while not perfect analogy, imagine you end on video of doing something 4 years ago and from today there is new law making it illegal and you get charged for it tomorrow 🤣

vast stump Jun 9, 2020, 3:50 AM

#

the banning is pretty poor move yeah. removing the content should be enough

chrome plinth Jun 9, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

oh it seems not only VODs getting DMCAed, also clips too

old jay Jun 9, 2020, 7:52 AM

#

!purgeban 714557342221467660 365d ban evasion

bright brambleBOT Jun 9, 2020, 7:52 AM

#

*PewPewPew!!*
RIP @winter tundra

chrome plinth Jun 9, 2020, 8:38 AM

#

@inland sphinx it's problem of Twitch doing nothing to address it, just going with the simplest solution of banning the content creators
remember, it's Twitch who monetize it all (the streams, the vods, the clips) even from those who get nothing monetary from Twitch (not partners)
while other services like Youtube, Vimeo, Spotify had signed deals with Record Labels, Music and A&V companies for royalties payments based on usage

#

it's quite complicated as the streaming and similar services offer nothing for the content creators to resolve royalty issues (e.g. automatic payments based on detect/listed a&v material)
same goes about recording, multichannel support (one for voice, one for game sound, another for ingame music, another for nongame music)
wish someone made new platform capable of all this ... and wipe the floor with the existing one

#

and yes ironically, it's very similar problem the modders and other IP owners are facing ...

#

you can easily get flagged for stuff which isn't supposed to be licensed but someone did remaster of music from 30 in 80s and guess what, video is flagged and you get DMCA
at this point, i guess it would be be easier to just develop neural network filter which would remove any background music 🤣
you can even get flagged for 200+ years old music from Strauss playing from 70 years old vinyl

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 8:57 AM

#

@shell scaffold#8934

what exactly is the reason for the "No Private Mods" and "No ripped content" rule on the BI forum
No ripped content is pretty clear. Ripping destroys the Arma modding scene, and we already had too many seasoned modders leave over such stuff. I mean.. on top of it being plain out friggin ILLEGAL dude.
The "no private mods" rule came about because people started posting.. well.. "private" mods, that were only private because they contained ripped/illegal content, and publishing these mods would get the "authors" into legal trouble.
Also while its private, noone can really check if there is ripped content in there, if you just have screenshots that look similar-ish to other stuff.
also why we have the rule that every screenshot needs to list the mods used.
Thus, the rippers salted the soup for everyone else in that all non-publicly released mods aren't allowed to be posted, because noone could check or report illegal content in such mods. I'm sure you witnessed the Echolon International issue with their "private" mods?

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 9:22 AM

#

@zealous ore

private mods = ripped s**t
not true, I have private mods too, private for the sole reason that they have stuff thats probably not relevant for anyone outside my unit, thus never publicly released, doesn't make it automatically be ripped or illegal in any way though.
Private mods were never an issue, until all the rippers used it as a label to hide their illegal stuff behind the "muh its private" curtain.

@celest sundial

Considering the author of a screenshot to be supporting content theft just because he used props in the scene that were make taken from some other place is ridiculous
Thats not how that happens though, these people rip stuff themselves, or get people to rip it for them just to make and share their screenshots. The content is stolen specifically for use in screenshots, thus the screenshots are directly used to promote that behaviour.

If you let the artist know "oh well you use and credit a mod that steals" i am sure the artis would instead point people to the original source
That's not happening, because the artists just list the mods as "private" and they are their own mods, so they cannot point somewhere else.

Point is, if i make screenshots with a cool mod i found on the workshop and it turns out those were stolen assets, blame the mod author not the person who made a screenshot. He had no idea about it.
Correct, very rarely happens though, and thats not really the issue.
The issue is the people literally promoting stealing content, by doing it on their own to promote it specifically in their screenshots.

celest sundial Jun 9, 2020, 9:24 AM

#

No objections to that. I was not aware that people ripping stuff for private mods was such a big deal, and that - as it seems - many artists use private mod colletions with bad intentions.

#

I would have hoped that the majority does it for the arts sake, not even repacking any mods or making something private etc etc. Just sharing a screenshot without anything attached to that what so ever.

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

@brave knot

he did say some stupid stuff but giving him 3 times the bandays of the guy who actually supported stealing is weird
It was actually his second ban for the same thing. And the ban evasion on top means I will now turn his temp ban into a permanent.

celest sundial Jun 9, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

I would not consider someone an "artist" when their primary intent is to promote a private mod collection. I did mention that though 🙂

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 9:28 AM

#

so basically streamers got to turn off music and play something that they can be sure is free on the background?
to be safe from now on?
What people seem to not notice here, its not twitch DMCA'ing people over music.
its music labels filing DMCA claims, and twitch behing forced to process them accordingly. Also twitch had rules in place since ever along the lines of "if you get too many DMCA claims you get banned" literally nothing changed besides that one music label now issuing DMCA's for their stuff.
But people are attacking and blaming twitch for it now, while its not their fault at all.
it's problem of Twitch doing nothing to address it, just going with the simplest solution of banning the content creators
remember
Twitch is just following their own long ago set-out rules. But as far as I can read on twitter, not even that. They are already not banning people even with 4 DMCA strikes, even though they said they'd ban after 3.
I support a 3 strike == ban rule, I would love if we could have such a rule on the Arma workshop, it has been discussed lots of times already. Really not much different.

#

I was not aware that people ripping stuff for private mods was such a big deal, and that - as it seems - many artists use private mod colletions with bad intentions.
There was that one guy, who was once on USP's media team, essentially a collegue of monarch (r/armaphot.. owner)
They repeatedly posted ripped stuff, moving USP into a VERY bad light, even demanding to get USP content before release so that they could be the first to screenshot it.
There were issues with people taking/ripping USP-pre-release stuff (not sure if related to these screenshot people too, but I very much assume so) which is why USP went for encryption which got them temporarily banned from BIF for a while.
One of these two screenshot guys for USP, got banned from BIF 6! times, posting ripped content, abusive language, ban evasion (duh), attacking USP team, pretending to be someone else. A pure s***show just over the ability to post screenshot and show off cool looking ripped stuff and trying to make himself a name with that.

#

@zenith moss as multiple people told you now, there is REALLY no need to lower yourself down to kindergarden level insults, you explained to him well enough, he's in the wrong. No need to attack people that way trying to make a point that was already made and that everyone already has in their mind.
You already have too many warnings, this is your last one.
You made 99% of this conversation without violating #rules, I'm sure its not a problem for you to think about the last 1%...

#

!issuewarning @zenith moss Note: last warning before ban, text given in chat.

bright brambleBOT Jun 9, 2020, 9:35 AM

#

Done.

zealous ore Jun 9, 2020, 10:36 AM

#

@inland sphinx you very well know what i mean by private mods. i have private mods myself, made by myself, that i have no intention of publishing, but that’s different

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 10:43 AM

#

Yes.
But you posted "private mods = ripped content" which isn't true, and not everyone reading here will know what you mean

zealous ore Jun 9, 2020, 10:48 AM

#

i think i said that in most situations (for the purpose of the discussion - “photography”) that stands true :))

dark tulip Jun 9, 2020, 3:02 PM

#

if you use content from others you should be able to credit them (with link to mod), if its your own unpublished content you can say so ("Custom models/textures/etc.")... no need for "private mod" in any case, so IMHO a red flag

zenith moss Jun 9, 2020, 3:21 PM

#

@inland sphinx I thought my entire conversation followed the rules lol.....

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

Besides two comments (now deleted) it did

zenith moss Jun 9, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

what did I say?

#

damn

lean plover Jun 9, 2020, 4:31 PM

#

low IQ and simp
what about me?

zenith moss Jun 9, 2020, 4:31 PM

#

figured that was fair game since it was vulgar

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

Zero tolerance policy regarding offensive behaviour,
this includes harassment, name calling, racism, sexism, homophobia, other derogatory remarks (profanity) or any insults.

zenith moss Jun 9, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

okay but for me, you gotta admit that whole conversation was much cleaner than normal

lean plover Jun 9, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

it's not clean if it ends in a ban of a participating party

zenith moss Jun 9, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

@lean plover didnt this time though https://i.imgur.com/IlCgX2y.png

lean plover Jun 9, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

that was just a generalization

turbid meadow Jun 9, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

Btw since I just got around to reading this chat

I support a 3 strike == ban rule, I would love if we could have such a rule on the Arma workshop, it has been discussed lots of times already. Really not much different.
I would support the 3 strike rule in general, but imo its unfair in this situation since people are suddenly getting strikes for stuff that was previously assumed to be fine without having time to adjust their behaviour after a strike

inland sphinx Jun 9, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

you gotta admit that whole conversation was much cleaner than normal
yep

#

it's not clean if it ends in a ban of a participating party
well not his fault 😄

#

for stuff that was previously assumed to be fine without having time to adjust their behaviour after a strike
Assumed is one thing, but copyright is pretty clear i think, and twitch's rules probably too. Just ignoring them and assuming its fine doesn't make it so

#

But clearly a huge problem if twitch approved partners are doing it all the time without any punishments

zenith moss Jun 9, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

if steam saved information used to make purchases and what not and then supplied that info for DMCA counters or fraudulent DMCAs etc... that would be ideal

#

though iirc right now they are not forcing you to sign in to make a DMCA

#

which could be a requirement of DMCAs

chrome plinth Jun 9, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

well Youtube evolved since the years ago dramas, now strikes expire after like 90 days, there are claims which aren't strikes and can be addressed before turning into strike

#

youtuber can also counter the strike and claim to negate it if it's invalid

#

ain't perfect but it's way better than instant 24 hours suspension on Twitch and 3 strikes autoban with no expiry or counter combat

#

if someone really wanted he could cripple Twitch by crawler and trolling fake claims ...

inland sphinx Jun 10, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

@thorny orbit enhanced movement? bad benson, quite sure he doesn't give monetization permissions to life servers

thorny orbit Jun 10, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

yeah I found the post sadly

vast stump Jun 10, 2020, 11:04 PM

#

or dont monetize?

zenith moss Jun 11, 2020, 2:46 AM

#

hey man hes gotta make that money off content he didn't create

gleaming cedar Jun 11, 2020, 4:03 AM

#

I gotta admit, the no swearing thing is really hard to stick with especially as an Aussie haha.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2116880715

I've been watching this mod for a few days now, trying to figure out if it's against copywrite. As far as I can tell, it is completely independent from FATA, implying the uploader has taken the models from FATA. What do you reckon?

vast stump Jun 11, 2020, 4:48 AM

#

well he did not make them

#

the first few lines state he is not the author which makes this a reupload. And how it is worded in the classic all credit way its likely un authorized

sweet rock Jun 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

which one should I have ticked when searching for images I can use as textures in arma?

📎 example.jpg

inland sphinx Jun 11, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

second from bottom I'd say

sweet rock Jun 11, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

👍

inland sphinx Jun 11, 2020, 7:24 PM

#

although if you intend to upload to steam, second from top

sweet rock Jun 11, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

not really, but I'll bear that in mind

zenith moss Jun 18, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

@bleak vortex friend of a friend said you support ripping

#

wild

manic crystal Jun 18, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

Oops, my bad

zenith moss Jun 18, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

eXcEpT

glad laurel Jun 18, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

Allow me to get comfortable with some popcorn

manic crystal Jun 18, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

Crazy how much a little ineffective list can get up under some peoples skin

bleak vortex Jun 18, 2020, 10:22 PM

#

@zenith moss Well, I won't just sit here and try to explain myself because I know how you respond to thoughts, you'll just try to hit me with irrelevant things instead of arguing about the matter, I experienced it before

#

So goodnight everyone, it was a lovely chat we had

manic crystal Jun 18, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

Waste of time, figured

glad laurel Jun 18, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

Present facts and I'm sure you'll get a factual response

zenith moss Jun 18, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

lmao

#

when you get presented with the facts you just go “aGrEe tO diSaGreE”

glad laurel Jun 18, 2020, 10:24 PM

#

Well I just made popcorn for nothing, thats some facts 😂

turbid meadow Jun 19, 2020, 12:06 AM

#

ConfusedDog What does that have to do with ip rights? @white pollen

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

@dark tulip we are actively working on something like that

#

Like I said

#

This blacklist is the first step

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 1:42 AM

#

Of course, and I'm a big supporter of that.
Although, just like Joe, I can see the abuse with it, which can be damaging to the mod(s) implementing it, the community and the game.

#

But when it's used on a "per mod" or "per mod team" basis it's all in the hands of the devs, and not a community run list (which most likely will still happen in the long run)

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

decent people usually have nothing to worry about in things like this

glad laurel Jun 19, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

At that point you just have to hope they have some kind of moral fiber

sly bloom Jun 19, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

🤔

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

the people using such systems?

#

well if they dont have, then why would you even want to be part of their users

glad laurel Jun 19, 2020, 1:47 AM

#

I was referring to the potential abuse of that kind of system. I like the idea of it myself it’s a step forwards as much as some people might disagree with it

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:48 AM

#

@small hamlet actually here

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:48 AM

#

I need to un-mute this channel.

#

Now I can see it; sorted.

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

decent people usually have nothing to worry about in things like this
Not entirely true, if the list is "open" or moderated by biased people (which even this community has), than it can and will be abused pretty fast.

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

But yeah, dropping in my two cents from another games handling of it.

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

I dont see such list becoming open like that

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

[02:43] Joe: But yeah, the way TWs games handled it, they went off the purchase key for the game as opposed to Steam ID. So once that key was circulated to enough servers, you basically couldn't play NW anymore. Which was a problem when there was all of like, four or five major server providers at the time.
[02:44] Joe: It was a reasonably great idea to start with, but it spiralled into something much more malicious in the long run. It was definitely caused by there being a complete lack of real input by TW / FSE into that side of things.
[02:44] Joe: TW seems to be taking steps to implement something themselves with Bannerlord, though, so we'll see.

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

whats TW?

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

TaleWorlds.

#

FSE = Flying Squirrel Entertainment.

#

NW = Napoleonic Wars.

sly bloom Jun 19, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

I've thought i've been a somewhat decent person but have been added to a blacklist before just because I happened to be working in the same group with a person that triggered the person with blacklist add powers lol

#

😂

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 1:51 AM

#

like, and no offense to Dedmen, but if posting the same question on 2 different (unrelated) Discord servers is a reason for a ban, than I can see something similar happen with this list just because 1 person is able to.

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 1:51 AM

#

If you’re talking about that one dude it seems he did it many times after being warned each time

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:51 AM

#

yeah the moderation rulings are not quite that simple here either

#

they just are not public

#

but yes it is possible someone would indeed missuse the power

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:54 AM

#

I think, in some regards, it's almost guaranteed to be an eventual outcome - but again, it's strictly dependent on who is managing such a list, whether or not they are guaranteed to be impartial and not respond in anger, ensuring there's structured processes for clarifying evidence and so forth.

It's an enormous amount to take on.

sly bloom Jun 19, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

Were you commenting to me? @zenith moss

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

But again; I'm 100% for a solution to make it harder for people to rip content from others, and if a blacklist is helping (in any form) than it's a good start.
However I do think that "we" have to come up with a better solution in the form of prevention instead of damage control.

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

No

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

@small hamlet if other option is that mod makers give up and stop making mods

#

because that happens every now and then

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:56 AM

#

I agree with Grez, admittedly a blacklist just worries me at the core - at least, one controlled by the player-base. It's definitely something I'd rather see BI stand up and take charge of, but that's a financial cost for them. The only other alternative I could see is something similar to EVE's community ambassadors; purely voluntary, and under strict guidance / set expectations.

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And yeah, I have noticed Goat. I was devastated when I saw Delta Hawk was stopping.

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 1:57 AM

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the system warden speaks of is controlled by the mod makers

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not users

glad laurel Jun 19, 2020, 1:57 AM

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Which isn’t what anyone wants really. I like mods, I like using mods, and I’d like to learn how to make my own @vast stump

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 1:57 AM

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I mean shoot I’ve known several guys who quit because of the community

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I even stepped back once

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legitimate mistake dedmen

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:58 AM

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I've only really started working on my own models myself recently, and it's a slog, but I've had people rip logos I've made before or make derivatives without asking / citing the original. I can appreciate how demeaning it can be.

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 1:58 AM

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forgive me for that one sin

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Yeah I’ve had people rip and sell my stuff

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Several times now

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It’s frustrating

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 1:59 AM

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@small hamlet in short that's what the current moderators are for; if someone is doing something bad, they are required to look at the proof and take actions when needed. If that means a discord/forum ban, so be it. If it means a full BE ban, it can be done. If that means an entry to a blacklist, I'm sure they'll be able to handle that.

glad laurel Jun 19, 2020, 1:59 AM

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And that’s the issue. It’s so damaging

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 1:59 AM

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I handled marketing for my last job, on top of managing our company website (with all the branding, unique artwork and so forth) - I wound up going on a bit of a crusade against people that'd stolen art from our product pages and re-hosted it elsewhere claiming it was theirs. It's not a nice experience.

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That's fair, Grez.

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 2:00 AM

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But I fully understand where you come from and I feel the same when badly implemented

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 2:01 AM

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I think, what I'm proposing (in theory), is something similar that just tackles... purely the Workshop / Modding content, I guess? They become the go-to point for that sort of thing exclusively. It means people have a figure (or figures) that they know will be there, have a keen understanding of BIs policies and potentially have the additional tools needed to crack a key'd PBO in those rare cases where they need to see the files inside to make sure they are/aren't ripped, I guess.

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idk, like I said, I'm incredibly distrusting of people in general. It's not a great position to be in, and it does colour my views on this sort of subject rather strongly in one direction.

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 2:04 AM

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Then you’ll understand if we aren’t very trusting of others and prefer to handle our list for our mod ourselves.

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 2:06 AM

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Aye, I can appreciate that. I do hope in the long run it doesn't backfire - the last thing we need is BI stepping in with a solution that ultimately causes more harm than good, although I doubt they'd do so.

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 2:08 AM

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I'm sure that more teams will implement something similar (if not the same) in time, simply to make life more relaxed without the worry of sending DMCA's every day (which can be a fulltime job for some projects).
And if this system remains private I'm all for it, so there's a lower change of it being abused or worse, being cracked.

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 2:09 AM

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BI doesn’t care about us unless it impacts their cash flow

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 2:10 AM

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Likewise. Fingers crossed for the future, regardless.

Obviously, we need to conscript Dedmen to take this up - he's in need of more work, right? That five minute toilet break is totally not needed.

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 2:10 AM

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Hands off Dedmen! Hes fixing Arma

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meow_flame_thrower 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 2:11 AM

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My man mentioned fixing Thermals the other day. I expect great things from him. 👀

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 2:11 AM

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Did he really?

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 2:11 AM

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Soon™️

turbid meadow Jun 19, 2020, 2:12 AM

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Yep he did mention it

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 2:12 AM

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I wanted to improve A3 thermal. Its on the "nice to have" list, maybe it can still happen
@inland sphinx

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Ah I did not mean to tag then.

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 2:12 AM

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Ah nice

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Hopefully night vision as well

turbid meadow Jun 19, 2020, 2:12 AM

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But dont get your expectations up peeps, he props has a lot on that list

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also this is getting quite off-topic

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 2:12 AM

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True, true - worth hopping over a channel now.

shy turret Jun 19, 2020, 2:13 AM

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did someone say fixing thermals

elfin coral Jun 19, 2020, 2:13 AM

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imo if a mod's author(s) implement a streamid rejectlist within their own mod they are perfectly entitled to do so, they are pro-actively protecting their IP.

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 3:29 AM

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@turbid meadow our blacklist with reasons for bans will never be public because some instances would give away the method we use to locate some of the offenders on the list

turbid meadow Jun 19, 2020, 3:29 AM

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Fair

turbid meadow Jun 19, 2020, 4:54 AM

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btw my favourite comment from the thread about USP's ban list is

This is what happens when you give modders rights and have an ip rights violations channel. Blame BI for this cringe

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heh

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Because why should modders own the stuff they make

lean plover Jun 19, 2020, 4:56 AM

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"oh, you got arrested for murder... well, blame the gov for having laws and blame the police for arresting you"

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https://giphy.com/gifs/chris-christie-rand-paul-attacks-GfAD7Bl016Gfm

Giphy

turbid meadow Jun 19, 2020, 4:57 AM

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Sounds about right

zenith moss Jun 19, 2020, 4:59 AM

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@lean plover this is what happens when you let modders have free will, I demand you make me a car for my life server right now

lean plover Jun 19, 2020, 5:00 AM

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"whishes can be placed after providing a donation receipt of $350,- to the ICRC"

old jay Jun 19, 2020, 7:06 AM

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yeah the moderation rulings are not quite that simple here either
@vast stump

Explain

gleaming cedar Jun 19, 2020, 7:46 AM

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No swearing

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As an Irish Australian no swearing rules are an affront to my people 😂

old jay Jun 19, 2020, 7:55 AM

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I'm a sailor, so what.

We have rules, just like I do at my place of employment, on the roads, in society... (no meme references plz)

vast stump Jun 19, 2020, 11:20 AM

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@old jay I meant they are not made simply because you guys feel like it. There's the rules that are to be enforced and you guys have procedure on how to handle things.

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And there's warnings and such prior harder actions

elfin coral Jun 19, 2020, 11:44 AM

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https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/activision-wins-the-trademark-war-first-52251/

JD Supra

Activision Wins the (Trademark) War: First Amendment Protects Depic...

A federal judge in New York recently held that the First Amendment right to convey realism in video games can outweigh trademark rights. ...

#

finally the case ends 🙂

small hamlet Jun 19, 2020, 12:10 PM

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Oh hey, that's actually... not a bad win.

#

Within America, at least. It's a different situation in the rest of the world.

inland sphinx Jun 19, 2020, 12:58 PM

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If you’re talking about that one dude it seems he did it many times after being warned each time
@zenith moss
No, TFAR discord #rules says crossposting (also inter server crossposting) is instant ban, that's what Grez meant
But I don't put people on a blacklist just because they are stupid

#

the last thing we need is BI stepping in with a solution that ultimately causes more harm than good, although I doubt they'd do so.
I think we can judge what would do more harm, and just not do it.

#

BI doesn’t care about us unless it impacts their cash flow
Not correct

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I don't understand why I'm mentioned so often 🙃

dark tulip Jun 19, 2020, 1:02 PM

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Because you're very loud in these cases 😉 And now even part of the BI gang 😝

inland sphinx Jun 19, 2020, 1:03 PM

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No swearing
@gleaming cedar
that is actually one of the simplest moderator rulings examples. #rules clearly says not allowed, thus not allowed. There is no room for discussion.
There are some harder decisions of course, but thats not one of them

gleaming cedar Jun 19, 2020, 1:13 PM

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It's just a rule I find hard to get down with, I've never worked anywhere it's an issue before. I just find it an odd rule for a game with a mature rating, and I can't think of many/any other servers I'm in with a similar rule so it just takes some adjustment is all. I only mentioned it as a joke, but I find it funny because I do actually have to make a conscious effort when I post here.

I know it's not up for discussion at all, just kidding around since most people I know treat the lack of swearing here as a joke haha

inland sphinx Jun 19, 2020, 1:15 PM

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I also changed over to not posting profanities, and I know of a handful of people that did too and don't have problems adjusting to it

fiery egret Jun 19, 2020, 2:39 PM

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I do actually have to make a conscious effort when I post here
I'd say this should give you food for thought, here ;P

gleaming cedar Jun 19, 2020, 3:19 PM

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Like I said, I just made a joke about it and just about everyone else I've joked with among many other communities have agreed it's a funny rule to have, like it's a kindergarten or something. I don't mind, I'm not refuting it and it's not an issue at all. It just makes me giggle that adults have to abide by a "No profanities" rule.

Regardless, very very off topic now so I apologise for that, I'm willing to leave that there.

old jay Jun 19, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

@gleaming cedar As an adult, it makes me giggle that other adults can't understand why an official Discord would implement rules which are meant to curtail offensive behaviour which may be considered abusive in a public setting and thus portraying them (Bohemia Interactive) in a bad light.

Apple may not restrict you from visiting your favourite NSFW website on your iPhone, but they WILL restrict you from posting it publicly on their Official forum or similar type platform. "As an adult", you should understand this. If you do not, this may not be the Discord server for you.

gleaming cedar Jun 19, 2020, 10:39 PM

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I have no issues with the rule, as I said. I fully understand why the rule exists. I simply live on the other side of the globe and have different cultural perspectives. It is funny, and I can live with it.

zenith moss Jun 20, 2020, 12:39 AM

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Same in the US lol. In business, industry and social settings.

#

Really hard when some expressions use those words as well lol

old jay Jun 20, 2020, 12:48 AM

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Considering that you (and your team) have been advised of the rules (multiple times) I do not understand what is so difficult to understand.

zenith moss Jun 20, 2020, 12:50 AM

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When you use it so regularly without event thinking about it as vulgar you have a harder time catching it... ergo the slip ups and such lol

old jay Jun 20, 2020, 1:03 AM

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10 years in the US military, 1 of them in Fallujah, another 10 years on the street as a SWAT Medic (NREMT-P) and I've learned to know when and where is appropriate to use my "expanded" vocabulary. There's no excuse.

zenith moss Jun 20, 2020, 1:07 AM

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Alright

gleaming cedar Jun 20, 2020, 5:06 AM

#

It's not about excuses, or rationales or any of that. It's literally just being able to laugh at a funny situation. It's funny, have a laugh, move on. Nothing is "so difficult to understand", it's just about being light-hearted and knowing when you can laugh at something... I made a widely recognised joke at my own expense. I think it's easy enough to tell none of us are trying to "overthrow the no swearing rule" or that we don't understand it or something, it's not a big deal. I've been trying to keep it light hearted the whole time and I've just been stonewalled by people citing the rules and stating how "Swearing is not acceptable" yada yada. I know, if I disagreed about not being able to swear I wouldn't be complying like I am. Lighten up a bit, there's enough doom and gloom around as it is, I don't know why this couldn't just be a throw away joke like it was supposed to be.

old jay Jun 20, 2020, 9:35 AM

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I don't know why this couldn't just be a throw away joke like it was supposed to be.

Because the last time someone did something similar quite a few number of users got banned. It turned into a "they can't ban all of us" action.

Spoiler, they were all banned.

If you don't like the rules, leave. If you're going to stir the pot, leave. If you're going to continue a subject despite needing to be constantly reminded that we have rules and guidelines here, you may want to leave.

gleaming cedar Jun 20, 2020, 10:20 AM

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Alright, no jokes only super serious arma talk here then...

#

Sorry I ever said anything, jeez.

wintry yoke Jun 20, 2020, 10:30 AM

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More of a "read the room dude". Jokes on a topic people take very seriously when it comes to its violation should be thought about twice.

inland sphinx Jun 22, 2020, 1:26 PM

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And so the "gnat is my dead brother and I have his permission to reupload his content" story goes on..

📎 firefox_2020-06-22_15-26-30.png

abstract crest Jun 22, 2020, 1:28 PM

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LOL... They are deleting his comments 🤦

wintry yoke Jun 22, 2020, 1:30 PM

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is he doing the DMCA now?

abstract crest Jun 22, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

And 🤣 Looking at recent comment from the ripper: The mod you are thinking about is something similar but it's a little different. The FSF-1 is the current listing that we have for Arma 3. The Arma 2 one you were talking about is not a sea fighter ship, it is a type of landing craft. They have some similarities but overall are different, Thank you.

#

Mod has been DCMAed so looks like it

wintry yoke Jun 22, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

link?

abstract crest Jun 22, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

Ripped FSF-1 Mod Link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2117129905

wintry yoke Jun 22, 2020, 1:32 PM

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is gangway an actual word?

abstract crest Jun 22, 2020, 1:32 PM

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LCS is still not DCMAed yet

#

But the comments on the FSF are quite honestly delusional 🤷

wintry yoke Jun 22, 2020, 1:33 PM

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really? To me they are disabled or all deleted

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oh weird that they're not on the same page

vast stump Jun 22, 2020, 2:12 PM

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Yeah I reached Gnat via email

abstract crest Jun 22, 2020, 2:12 PM

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Surprised that Very Presidential hasn't had the ban hammer on the forum given he joined to say "False misleading information"

vast stump Jun 22, 2020, 2:12 PM

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Is he on the forum?

abstract crest Jun 22, 2020, 2:13 PM

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https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/161384-fast-sea-frame-sea-fighter-assault-craft/?do=findComment&comment=3411311

inland sphinx Jun 22, 2020, 2:21 PM

#

Sorry I already got the green light for ban, just picking up leftovers from last week

abstract crest Jun 22, 2020, 4:22 PM

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Looks like they took it (and the LCS mod) down or make it private on the Workshop. Great job by all who got involved in this one! 🙂

wintry yoke Jun 22, 2020, 5:10 PM

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probably just set to private?

#

no way that community is not an echo chamber

inland sphinx Jun 23, 2020, 12:23 PM

#

https://steamcommunity.com/id/numby61/myworkshopfiles/
🤔
@CIP israel 2GB modpack
JackFrench Mod 1,3GB modpack
ALS Mod 800MB altis life modpack. @wintry yoke already notified authors over a year ago apparently.
ARMA 3 LS MOD PACK 2,4GB modpack
@ISRLIFE 3,5GB modpack
isis Full Mod 2,3GB modpack

also got told he has even more stuff that's set to private

proud helm Jun 23, 2020, 5:14 PM

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What is the problem with private stuff?

zealous ore Jun 23, 2020, 5:16 PM

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the moment you re-upload somethin to steam, even if the thing is set to private

#

you break steam TOS, unless you made that stuff

#

also, being private to 2+ people doesn't make it personal use anymore

abstract crest Jun 23, 2020, 5:35 PM

#

At the end of the day if you don't respect the reasonable wishes of a modder then you really have no business using their mod 🤷

proud helm Jun 23, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

To me at least, private Workshop stuff is totally okay and I cannot really See the difference to other repositories but the steam TOS nobody really reads anyways

zenith moss Jun 23, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

@proud helm nothing is wrong with private stuff as long as it’s legit, nothing is wrong with setting a steam item to prove as long as it’s legit

#

But these are people stealing others mods and uploading to steam as private so it’s harder to find

#

Yeah but not reading it doesn’t excuse you from it

north slate Jun 23, 2020, 11:28 PM

#

Hey everyone! I don't know if this is the right place for this and this has probably been asked before but I wanted to ask if anybody knows how EA handles use of their assets and IP in mods. Crysis assets more specifically. I want to make a mod that would include copyrighted material from Crysis and I'm not sure if doing so will cause any legal trouble. I know Microsoft allows the use of the Halo IP in mods if you add a certain phrase and a link to their content usage rules. I have done some googling and found no 100% clear answer so I thought I would ask here. Is there anything like that for EA content?

small hamlet Jun 23, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

EA don't own the Crysis IP; they operated as the publisher on the first three games. Crytek hold the IP.

Your best bet is to check Crytek's website for any relevant information, or shoot them an email. However, there is at least one other Crysis mod on the workshop that I know of, but I wouldn't take that as a "it's fine, dude" situation.

https://www.crytek.com/

dark tulip Jun 23, 2020, 11:37 PM

#

Ripping content from any IP is forbidden in all cases (which is also the case for content by Microsoft). This includes (but does NOT limit to) models, textures, etc.
Making content based on existing IP's is something that some companies (like MS) allow within limits, while others don't (like Disney).

As for EA (or Crytek for that matter); I couldn't find any specific rules about using their content or IP's, so in short "it's not allowed unless permission has been given to you personally".

north slate Jun 23, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

Thanks! I will stay on the safe side and try to contact Crytek about it.

old jay Jun 24, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

And remember, no response does not mean its ok or isn't prohibited.

willow crane Jun 24, 2020, 10:33 AM

#

Crytek do not like their IP moving off of their engines. As other have said, you may not rip any asset from an existing game without consent from Crytek. You may get away with creating 100% new content using IP/designs based off Crysis. But as its not on one of their game engines and it would potentially take players away from their own titles I seriously doubt they would allow it. But its always worth asking...

chrome plinth Jun 26, 2020, 9:30 PM

#

Crytek offered Crysis content for mod makers under certain license on theirs store website and Humble Bundle (i've got some myself)

#

for those assets, examine the licenses attached

#

for rest of assets , contact Crytek

#

2016 https://www.cryengine.com/news/view/only-six-more-days-to-buy-cryengine-humble-bundle , https://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2016/03/15/Inside-The-CryEngine-Humble-Bundle.aspx
2018 https://www.cryengine.com/news/view/our-humble-cryengine-bundle-2018-is-go-grab-a-deal

CRYENGINE

CRYENGINE | Only Six More Days to Buy CRYENGINE Humble Bundle

Support charity and fellow indie developers while getting Crytek's own assets and more!

CRYENGINE

CRYENGINE | Our Humble CRYENGINE Bundle 2018 is go! Grab a deal!

We’re delighted to announce that we’ve partnered with the awesome folk at Humble Bundle to launch the Humble CRYENGINE Bundle 2018. There is a colossal amount of CRYENGINE content and sweet CRYENGINE games to pick up at a bargain price, and you have the opportunity to support ...

willow crane Jun 27, 2020, 11:36 AM

#

And when you read the licences attached to the packages what does it say? From what i remember when i looked at something similar a year or two ago its something like "For use on Cryengine only"

#

https://www.cryengine.com/ce-terms
2.4. Restrictions on Use: Crytek reserves all rights not expressively granted in this Agreement. Without limitation, Licensee shall not:
...
...

#

copy, replicate or mimic Crytek’s games;

#

...

#

...

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

If you do that you should propably also leave a comment so they know why you're disliking the video @zenith moss

shell scaffold Jul 4, 2020, 12:15 PM

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I joined in on the quality comments and left a hard earned dislike, thanks for sharing warden

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 12:45 PM

#

!purgeban @zenith moss 60d repeated rule violations despite multiple warnings, no improvements visible

bright brambleBOT Jul 4, 2020, 12:46 PM

#

*fires them railguns at @zenith moss* Ò_Ó
warden_1#2831 now has 7 infractions.

golden topaz Jul 4, 2020, 2:30 PM

#

https://twitter.com/ArmaArtists/status/1279417749744254976

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 2:30 PM

#

@golden topaz link, description :u

golden topaz Jul 4, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

why do you have to disable embeds :c

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 2:31 PM

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because kids

#

like the guy spamming zoophile porn everywhere few weeks ago

golden topaz Jul 4, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

Anyhow, it is in regards to the video that was removed from here a few hours ago

#

yikes

#

An apology about discussing ripping content and such on the Arma Artist Podcast

#

Can I link the video?

#

or is it just going to stay gone

elfin coral Jul 4, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

if they were serious about it, they'd take down the video.

zealous ore Jul 4, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

it was deleted for a reason @golden topaz

golden topaz Jul 4, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

aight

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:17 PM

#

We made a mistake, we publicly apologised it and are taking active steps to make sure nothing bad happens from our side to upset the community again. Reason we haven't taken down the video is to show that we can handle criticism and don't just hide ourselves away from criticism

elfin coral Jul 4, 2020, 3:20 PM

#

You still explain in that video how to rip content from addons,. regardless if you regret your actions, your inaction in not removing that video is telling about your respect for other community members.

strange shadow Jul 4, 2020, 3:21 PM

#

could just edit that part out and re upload

vast stump Jul 4, 2020, 3:22 PM

#

Hopefully you guys also stop actually doing it too.

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 3:22 PM

#

@pseudo mango So I found this very much illegal looking reupload of some VSM pbo's on your workshop https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1943222725

#

I'd recommend you take that down now

north schooner Jul 4, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

could just edit that part out and re upload
We could do that. But then again, I think that "hiding" our mistakes is not a good idea

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

Ok that I did forget about, I made it back when and I do apologise. I got my excuses but it doesn't matter it's unexcusable.

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

Thanks

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:24 PM

#

Believe me when I say I never wanted to upset any member of the community, my 2 co-hosts and I planned this podcast to be something to bring people together

#

We want nothing but the best for the whole arma community

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 3:24 PM

#

if we do * up point it out to us.
just violated #rules, profanity

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:24 PM

#

oh damn my bad

#

if we mess up point it out to us*

old jay Jul 4, 2020, 3:33 PM

#

if we mess up point it out to us*

We shouldn't have to.

Don't steal/modify/reupload someone else's content (even it it too happens to be stolen)

And don't tell others how to do the same thing

modern temple Jul 4, 2020, 3:34 PM

#

"yeah point it out to us, be we won't do anything about it" 🤷‍♂️

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

@old jay We are human, we made a selfish judgement to talk about it and are going to not be mentioning anything. Just to clarify we didn't steal it we talked about stolen content in general in a way where we were encouraging people

old jay Jul 4, 2020, 3:36 PM

#

According to Discords own rules, it falls under dissemination of cheats/hacks.

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:36 PM

#

We wouldn't want to upset people in this community, the mod I uploaded before someone sent me the PBOs and asked me to add patches on to it. That is all on me, I made a dumb and selfish choice of taking someone else's work and modifying it

old jay Jul 4, 2020, 3:37 PM

#


For many years this community has been known as the premium addon/mod creating community, people work tirelessly and in great detail to create fantastic addons/mods/missions/campaigns to release for free so that everyone benefits, including Bohemia Interactive. There are a few simple rules in place to provide the respect to these creative people/groups that they deserve:

The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.

On these forums you must follow this rule, if a person/team post a thread to share an addon/mod using content from someone else without permission and we receive a complaint then the mod thread will be closed until the issue is resolved and the forum member(s) risks being permanently banned from these forums for taking someone's work without permission.

This isn't just limited to re-using content in addons/mods/missions however, it's not acceptable to edit someone's work without permission and then to post screenshots of it on the forums (even if the edited addon/mod is purely for personal use), it's also not acceptable to edit someone's work, or use someone's work in any way that you don't have permission for and then to create videos which you post on these forums, doing any of the above without the permission of the original creators risks a permanent ban, for individuals, for whole mod teams or squads.```

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 3:44 PM

#

As a sidenote I'd just like to mention that I like the idea of making a podcast about modding related stuff bongocat @pseudo mango

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:44 PM

#

Thanks @turbid meadow 🙂

north schooner Jul 4, 2020, 3:45 PM

#

Well we probably won't be talking that much about mods from now on 😅

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:45 PM

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Well we will but we won't be discussing how to modify them.. :/

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 3:46 PM

#

You can always look into ways to modify stuff within those mods and the games/steams licenses (as in stuff like making reskins without reuploading the mods own files)

#

That'd be something I'm quite interested in

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:46 PM

#

I'm gonna just stray away from those related topics, because 1 slip up in a sentence and it's the end for us.

north schooner Jul 4, 2020, 3:47 PM

#

Oh yeah. That won't ever happen again. We'll make sure of that

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

Eh I think you guys would be fine as long as you double check that you're staying within the licenes boundaries

elfin coral Jul 4, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

If you really wanted to fix this, you would take down your video & remove the section this discussion is about.
Keeping it up for 'clicks' is only spreading how you have ripped content from addons and that you support doing that, A bit-part apology on twitter does not show one iota of remorse.

Think about it like this:
You make screenshots of Arma, you may edit them in post or whatever, putting in extra work.
Now I see your 'hard work' and claim it as my own and post it all over my twitter, reddit, etc.
That is me stealing your IP.

Now think about it like this:

A mod author who in many cases puts hundred's/thousand's of hours into creating and releasing their content to the community for free,
You come along and rip out parts of those mods that you want,
In doing so YOU break the licence's under which those mods are released,
You show it in your screenshots etc,
You then release a video on YouTube in which you explain how you tore those mods apart.
Other people hear that and do the same and the cycle repeats with them.

Can you see how bad you look now?
Can you see how deflating and discouraging that is to people who create the actual content you use in your screenshots?

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

But yeah I like the general idea of the podcast and its nice to see more media about arma being produced bongocat

#

Also yeah I agree that it would be best to reupload the video without the problem parts

modern temple Jul 4, 2020, 3:50 PM

#

Yeah it would be, but will you?

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:52 PM

#

Video has been privated.

north schooner Jul 4, 2020, 3:52 PM

#

If you really wanted to fix this, you would take down your video & remove the section this discussion is about.
Keeping it up for 'clicks' is only spreading how you have ripped content from addons and that you support doing that, A bit-part apology on twitter does not show one iota of of remorse.

Think about it like this:
You make screenshots of Arma, you may edit them in post or whatever, putting in extra work.
Now I see your 'hard work' and claim it as my own and post it all over my twitter, reddit, etc.
That is me stealing your IP.

Now think about it like this:

A mod author who in many cases puts hundred's/thousand's of hours into creating and releasing their content to the community for free,
You come along and rip out parts of those mods that you want,
In doing so YOU break the licence's under which those mods are released,
You show it in your screenshots etc,
You then release a video on YouTube in which you explain how you tore those mods apart.
Other people hear that and do the same and the cycle repeats with them.

Can you see how bad you look now?
Can you see how deflating and discouraging that is to people who create the actual content you use in your screenshots?
That's a really good point actually 🤔 It totally makes sense from your view.

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 3:53 PM

#

Video has been privated.
Good on you peeps for doing it

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:54 PM

#

Yeah no @elfin coral we messed up, I get it from your side completely.

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 3:55 PM

#

Language 👀

#

I cant remember if censoring it with the stars is accepted, I recommend removing it entirely to be on the safe side

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:58 PM

#

Like I said, video is privated and will be edited to exclude that part, we in no way, shape or form want harm for the community, I've been playing BI games for a better part of half a decade. I love this game and will continue to do so. I, roughly 7 months ago made the bad decision to take some PBOs i was sent and modify them. I wasn't too big in to arma so I never knew how much work is actually put in. It was a selfish decision on my part and it's inexcusable, and i understand why you lot are upset with me about that.

Regarding the whole saying things that not needed to be said on stream is our fault. And I can't apologise enough. I accept the hate we got on it because we were in the wrong, there's no way for us to explain it in a way where we are in the wrong.

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

!issuewarning @pseudo mango profanity

bright brambleBOT Jul 4, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

Failed to PM @pseudo mango

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

again?

#

wait hollup

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

3 times is a few too many

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

damn sorry it's just engraved in me to use these type of words my bad

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

I'm fine with one or two accidents, but after being told twice about it...

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

But ye good on you peeps for agreeing that you made a mistake and are working on bettering it now @pseudo mango

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

Warning won't mean anything unless you continue violating #rules which you probably won't, so no worries

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

^ i have a few warnings too heh

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

Yeah I really won't man im sorry, just Irish people can't help exchanging a few normal words for profanity words.

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

It can take a bit to get used to for some peeps

#

just gotta keep working on it

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

But yeah we goofed up and it's our fault. We really can't excuse it.

#

We will try better ourselves, I understand why the hate is there and it's justified, just know we're taking a stance as a team to fix ourselves and make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen again.

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

But ye good on you peeps as I said, in my time here I've seen the exact opposite of your reaction far too often so its good to see peeps agreeing that they made a mistake

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

No problem as long as you live up to it and take care of it.
People actually being sorry and taking care of their mistakes is VERY rare

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

^ And thats why it should be appreciated and applauded when it does happen

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

No see because it's not that we think we're right, we understand by listening to other people on other discords that we messed up, we want to continue making these podcasts because it's a way for us to give back to ArmA, but evidently we made the wrong choice in what subjects to talk about

inland sphinx Jul 4, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

We don't have a problem with people making mistakes, the real problem are the people that knowingly do such stuff, and animate others to do the same

#

Btw its Arma, latin word for weapons, not ArmA (The sub-name of the first Arma: Armed Assault)

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

Also its Arma not arma 9Apeek

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

i cri

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

blobdoggoninja 'd

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

I was selfish for talking about it, but since i knew the how's I wanted to explain to others, as I felt I was being helpful to people, but after listening to other people's sides i agree that wasn't the right choice

#

Like genuienly I wouldn't have posted that if I knew i was going to upset people.

north schooner Jul 4, 2020, 4:06 PM

#

Alright. The editing is done. This whole situation is overall kinda new to us so please bare with us.

turbid meadow Jul 4, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

No worries

zealous ore Jul 4, 2020, 4:19 PM

#

the main issue is having this sort of thing as a rule not an exception

#

taking stuff because you can. there is no point carrying this discussion further, i personally have already made my mind up about it

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

@zealous ore we are in the wrong and you are free to dislike us, even for the rest of time, but we will try better ourselves mate we don't want this to be associated with us because it just sets a bad precedent for the rest of the time that we wish to do our podcasts for.

zealous ore Jul 4, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

in any case, i have taken the necesary steps (bloking twitter accounts etc) and have all the info required to take further action if i’ll be forced to

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

That is fair and I understand that and I do not blame you for that.

zealous ore Jul 4, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

i could care less if you had tbh

pseudo mango Jul 4, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

🤷🏽‍♂️

zealous ore Jul 4, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

seen this sort of stuff before, the appology is there just because you got called out. nothing much will change, maybe you’ll just avoid talking about it from this point on, but that doesn’t actually mean you made any sense of why you got the response you did

#

pity, because there’s more like you that have the exact same mentality

#

anyways, back to more important matters, wasted enough of my own time with this

shell scaffold Jul 14, 2020, 3:30 AM

#

Is it a thing to license mission files? something like a txt within the folder that exclaims you are not to reuse these missions for reuploads/on another server.

inland sphinx Jul 14, 2020, 7:21 AM

#

rarely seen it. but you could make it a thing if you wanted to

#

I'd imagine it would be a thing in the life scene, they are usually very possessive of their mission files, but on the other hand the life scene usually just steals whatever they like and doesn't care about licenses.

shell scaffold Jul 14, 2020, 8:57 AM

#

could i License a mission file under APL-ND although it states mods in one of the pages?
https://www.bohemia.net/assets/img/licenses/images/license_chart.jpg?4 (chart I went by to look for what I want)
https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/arma-public-license-nd here it repeatadly uses material which is more of a broad phrasing to me

Also does a statement like
"DP-27 holds the rights to revoke your permission to use the mission file"
in a txt hold any worth? or is it junk

inland sphinx Jul 14, 2020, 8:57 AM

#

the chart is just a guideline, not the actual writing

#

as licenses are usually applied to mods, it writes about mods

in a txt hold any worth?
yes.
Actually by default its your copyrighted content and noone is allowed to do anything with it, without a license, so technically you don't need to write anything. Practically most people think when nothing is forbidden, everything is allowed.

shell scaffold Jul 14, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

if push came to shove how would you prove ownership of the mission file?

inland sphinx Jul 14, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

Author entry in mission.sqm, have WIP pics...

shell scaffold Jul 14, 2020, 9:06 AM

#

alright thanks

abstract crest Jul 18, 2020, 12:21 AM

#

Would anyone from Bohemia have an opinion on whether it would be legal to take editor preview pictures from ARMA 3 for items that I would like to use as inventory items, remove the grey "VR" background and add to a mod (as a minor bit of the mod) so that they show up nicely in the inventory. An answer of mail Karel is fine...

#

Obviously with a note that the images are (c) Bohemia Interactive a.s

red sand Jul 18, 2020, 4:40 AM

#

Not an expert or BI, but I'm fairly sure sharing screenshots from the game is perfectly fine. It wouldn't be any different than using one as a mission preview image for example. As long as you don't include the actual models in the mod.

#

Oh you probably meant using the existing game images and not making them yourself. I don't know about that then. But recreating them from scratch is super simple too if you don't get a definitive answer.

brave knot Jul 18, 2020, 11:02 AM

#

I think that if you can access it without violating any sort of encryption they are free range for use as long as they dont leave the game

old jay Jul 18, 2020, 11:18 AM

#

I may be reading this wrong, but my impression is that Grahame is asking (quotes mine) "Can I alter/manipulate a default image and reuse it in a mod?". Is this correct @abstract crest ?

elfin coral Jul 18, 2020, 11:55 AM

#

i read it as that too, basically can he take the editor preview imagery (game data), and edit it to fit the needs of his arma 3 mod.

inland sphinx Jul 18, 2020, 12:12 PM

#

you could just take your own image of the item, and use that. Then you have no issues to think about

brave knot Jul 18, 2020, 12:21 PM

#

you can auto generate that same image aswell with the preview generator script

abstract crest Jul 18, 2020, 12:48 PM

#

That is correct @old jay the issue with the autogeneration is what I am trying to get around. The image is screenshotted by the game on VR terrain so it has a grey not transparent background. That begs the question of can I export those images using the tool, make them transparent and upload @brave knot

#

The issue of doing my own images is problematic without those items. Most stock images are not free and most are someone's IP even if a web page you may see them on doesn't say that @inland sphinx

inland sphinx Jul 18, 2020, 12:54 PM

#

without those items.
you don't have the items that you want inventory icons for?

abstract crest Jul 18, 2020, 12:55 PM

#

Oh you mean actually go in, place them in VR and take a screenshot (not using the wiki exporter) and manipulatebthevresults?

elfin coral Jul 18, 2020, 12:55 PM

#

I just posted a method in #arma3_texture

abstract crest Jul 18, 2020, 12:58 PM

#

Thanks @elfin coral Very familiar with those tools - even submitted an updated version to improve one to Bohemia :)

elfin coral Jul 18, 2020, 1:03 PM

#

np, inventory images is a topic that there's not a guide for iirc

#

I have some custom tools myself which I used for my arma 3 library site, it's handy just being able to have the game render them straight out to images

abstract crest Jul 18, 2020, 1:11 PM

#

OT but I really have to finish up the consolidated exporter I was doing for the CUP folks. A lot more flexible and usable

shell scaffold Jul 19, 2020, 2:34 AM

#

I wish to make a warlords RHS compat addon and upload it to the steam workshop, after reviewing their license I understand that I can make the addon AND upload it to steam WS?(double checking before i get sued)

dark tulip Jul 19, 2020, 2:37 AM

#

Making a compat mod is completely fine.

shell scaffold Jul 19, 2020, 2:37 AM

#

ok cool, one thing that always bothered me was that it seemed like a difference in RHS Configs made vehicles never spawn in with sectors. making me have to place every single one and path them myself

dark tulip Jul 19, 2020, 2:39 AM

#

As long as you don't include assets from RHS and be careful with retextures everything is OK.
And based on what you want all you'll need are some configs which either require RHS or point to RHS.

shell scaffold Jul 19, 2020, 2:48 AM

#

im thinking New faction of rhsgref Inherit the units and make the config groups to vanilla standard(mechanized armored etc) and (hopefully) that fixes the issue .

wicked maple Aug 1, 2020, 12:36 PM

#

Reupload of TFAR https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2183126874

And "Sounds recorded from War Thunder" https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2183126632
I need to report that to War Thunder Devs? Right?

inland sphinx Aug 1, 2020, 1:58 PM

#

@wicked maple yeah, please do so

#

@proud vault I would appreciate if you can take down that unapproved TFAR reupload to the workshop. If you want to add compatability for a mod, make a compat mod but don't reupload other peoples content without permission.

ALSO FYI you are violating our #rules and I will proceed accordingly should you not take down that reupload.

proud vault Aug 1, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

@inland sphinx Hello. The author of the mod TFAR - [TF]NKey, TF squad of administrators on the RBIF server for which the mod was made. This mod is used on the server and is now publicly available to everyone. Changes are not possible without interfering with the mod, so it is rebooted. We are from the same community and everyone knows about each other. If there is a complaint from the author, the mod will be deleted.

@wicked maple Hello. The sounds are based on those that are in the game of war thunder, it's not the same sounds from the game. In music, this is called "cover". I like the game war thunder and I could not even write out of the game. Tanks sound different.

inland sphinx Aug 1, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

So NKey signed off on that upload? Didn't hear from him for a long time

#

Sounds weird that nkey would sign off on a upload that doesn't even write the name of the mod correctly

#

The sounds are based on those that are in the game of war thunder, it's not the same sounds from the game
The description on that workshop item says otherwise though, it says the sounds are recorded from the game. Which is definitely not "based on"
In music, this is called "cover".
Yeah but thats a very different thing...

#

You also state that you took "your" mods config from someone else too

Config is taken from Alan, the Real Panzer mod

#

Please clarify these descriptions, as they currently are, they are clearly not legal.

proud vault Aug 1, 2020, 7:05 PM

#

Nkey is long gone. TF squad knows everything. Alan and I have a friendly relationship, he uses my work in his Addons, I use his. I think we need to change the descriptions, there are too many misunderstandings.

inland sphinx Aug 1, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

"long gone" well I mean I didn't hear from him for a few months

#

So he didn't approve of your upload? Because I didn't either..

#

Sounds very much like you violate our #rules with that then

lean plover Aug 1, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

🍿

proud vault Aug 1, 2020, 7:09 PM

#

he can write to me or one of his friends

inland sphinx Aug 1, 2020, 7:13 PM

#

You know I took over maintenance of TFAR, and the version you modified and reuploaded there was made by me?

#

And that steam subscriber agreement forbids you to reupload content without permission?

proud vault Aug 1, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

I don't know if the mod is reloaded just because it can't be done, or if I don't know how to do it on top of the addon. If someone can do this I will be grateful.

inland sphinx Aug 1, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

If you can tell me what changes you needed, I can show you how to do it without reuploading and modifying the original

#

old TFAR just uses CfgFunctions, if you need to modify code you can just redirect functions

proud vault Aug 1, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

" radio station in the tank works only for the commander and the radio operator shooter. In the original, the gunner, commander, and shooter." I changed this in the scripts. All other changes I was able to make without affecting the main mod.

inland sphinx Aug 1, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

Yes I know, if you tell me what scripts you changed, I can show you how to make a patch mod

proud vault Aug 1, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

OK, I'll send it to PM later

zealous ore Aug 2, 2020, 12:42 AM

#

lol, this made my day

hearty grotto Aug 4, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

Is it (legally) allowed to unpack PBOs from [...]/Arma 3/Addons?

rapid escarp Aug 4, 2020, 11:53 PM

#

BI's own .pbos? Yes it's allowed and indeed necessary for some aspects of addon-making. There's an app in the official tools that unpacks all the game data as part of the P:\ drive setup, and BI provide the bankrev tool for the purpose of opening their .pbo files

#

What you do with their unpacked data is where there are limits on what's allowed and not allowed. Data that you are not allowed to unpack is in other formats such as .ebo

hearty grotto Aug 5, 2020, 12:10 AM

#

So I assume using a .paa obtained from a BI .pbo as basis for a (vehicle) texture is no problem but indeed the correct way and, for official assets, the only way?

rapid escarp Aug 5, 2020, 12:20 AM

#

It's tolerated at least

hearty grotto Aug 5, 2020, 12:25 AM

#

Thanks for clearing that up!

gleaming cedar Aug 5, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

Hey guys, I have a question re; monetisation. I have made an addon which uses assets from a single pack on ArtStation which has an extended/unlimited license. There is a community which wishes to use my mod on their monetised server which is already approved and registered with BI. As I have an extended license for these assets, am I allowed to allow this community to utilise my mod?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/677333591361060929/740685255958200390/image0.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/677333591361060929/740685257204039870/image1.png
Pertinent screenshots of the license. This is a stock asset with an extended license.

dark tulip Aug 5, 2020, 10:24 PM

#

I think the following line should say enough:

for personal use on an unlimited number of personal projects that are not used or distributed in any commercial manner
which get reinforced by:
directly or indirectly assist, facilitate or encourage any third party to carry on any activity prohibited by this Agreement.
Section 5.i

#

So releasing a mod with the assets bought by you should be fine, but afaik does it not allow monetisation in any way.

Although that's my view on it, so the best was to be sure is to ask ArtStation for this specific case (which might be hard to explain to someone who doesn't understand how Arma Monetisation works).

bronze haven Aug 5, 2020, 10:41 PM

#

You're clipping out the second part of that:
and with respect to any number of commercial works, with no limit on sales or views
which is a modification of the standard commercial license that states:
and [with] respect to one commercial Work, with up to a maximum of, as applicable, 2,000 sales of the Work or 20,000 monthly views of the work

gleaming cedar Aug 5, 2020, 10:44 PM

#

My asset is under the extended license as opposed to the standard license which states

If you have purchased an Extended Commercial licence then you may exercise your rights under that licence:

for personal use on an unlimited number of personal projects that are not used or distributed in any commercial manner; and with respect to any number of commercial Works, with no limit on sales or views.

#

So with it instead being part of the “unlimited use” option per se, does that sound more viable? Not an issue for me really if not, it’s not my server.

gleaming cedar Aug 6, 2020, 12:28 AM

#

I've told the bloke he's okay to use it on his server. After reading that extended license a few times, I feel pretty confident that is within the intended use.

old jay Aug 6, 2020, 7:17 AM

#

~~Technically NO ONE can monetise as the monetisation program has ended (per its publicly posted end date).~~

#

📎 unknown.png

#


You may, but ONLY if you have proper permission from all of the authors of such mods. Monetizing without it contravenes our licenses.```

inland sphinx Aug 6, 2020, 7:47 AM

#

and with respect to any number of commercial works, with no limit on sales or views
I read that as "no minimum limit, EVERYTHING is commercial even if just a few cents"

Or maybe they mean they are two types of extended license, one for only personal use, and one for commercial work

#

@old jay

Technically NO ONE can monetise as the monetisation program has ended (per its publicly posted end date).
What? It didnt no.
What are your sources? Here is the real one:
https://www.bohemia.net/monetization/

📎 firefox_2020-08-06_09-48-25.png

old jay Aug 6, 2020, 7:49 AM

#

https://www.bohemia.net/monetization/dev

#

Apparently they still have an older version public

inland sphinx Aug 6, 2020, 7:50 AM

#

Where is that /dev page linked to?

#

that's not linked on the official size and clearly way out of date 🤔

#

@thick vigil ^

old jay Aug 6, 2020, 7:51 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

inland sphinx Aug 6, 2020, 7:51 AM

#

oof wow

#

Fix it pls

old jay Aug 6, 2020, 7:51 AM

#

Yup

shell scaffold Aug 9, 2020, 8:38 PM

#

Say I'd like to make winter versions of livonia foliage, would that be not allowed?

vast stump Aug 10, 2020, 5:13 AM

#

It would not be yeah

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 11:48 AM

#

mentality check

📎 unknown.png

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 11:50 AM

#

sometimes i think that the virus needs to hit harder.....
sorry

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 12:06 PM

#

@lean plover btw, you lads should do some deep searches, found like a ton of cup re-uploads while doing it today for RHS

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 12:09 PM

#

i know... but i'm desperately lacking the time and tbh the motivation to engage with arma. hope that changes soon.
but the issue with deep search is, nearly half if not more turns out as false positive for models that are from the public data pack and reused by other modders (mostly terrains related)
weapons, units and vehicles are on another page ofc

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 12:10 PM

#

most i've seen had cup_ tags, so there's that

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 12:11 PM

#

ok, that's something different then. thx for the heads up. maybe @golden topaz got some time on his hands

#

he has done a great job in the past

fiery egret Aug 10, 2020, 12:18 PM

#

the issue with deep search is, nearly half if not more turns out as false positive for models that are from the public data pack
Maybe automate parsing the results with some kind of whitelists. Or ask Ayano to add that feature to his crawler (doesn't it have it already? 🤔 )

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 12:19 PM

#

i have to say, last time i did a deep search was with the old system. i haven't done a search with the new crawler

patent copper Aug 10, 2020, 1:03 PM

#

@fiery egret @lean plover the only way to get rid of these results is to use the filter function on the website, where you can exclude files from your own item

#

There you'd need to provide the file names to exclude or full paths to them to exclude them

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

@lean plover @golden topaz this is a bit of an ass - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2127320218

Steam Workshop::IRAQ WARFARE 2020

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

doesn't look like he's on this server.

golden topaz Aug 10, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

Will throwing additional strikes on the pile do much?

#

just out of curiosity

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

no..
we should keep him in mind for the next reupload

inland sphinx Aug 10, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

no..
as far as we know that is.. I always have the hope that steam will someday choose to just ban repeat offenders outright.

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 1:53 PM

#

won't happen

#

unless ordered by court i guess

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 1:53 PM

#

Could still comment that CUP also is against use of their content in this mod.

#

(and state that reuploads after dealing with RHS DMCA will be DMCA'd by CUP as well.)

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 1:54 PM

#

👍

#

will leave a comment

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

Though, their own collection has all CUP mods listed as well, so maybe they are just retexs?

#

This one: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2137490029

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 2:03 PM

#

the dude has a lot of files on that "core" thing that isnt his own

#

and has the audacity to put a ducking license on other people's work

#

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

I respect everyone's copyright and all rights are reserved to ARMA 3 MIDDLE EAST.
Is that possible? 🤔

lean plover Aug 10, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

nope

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 2:11 PM

#

Gawd CUP has a G+ account. 😂

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

also, for people such as myself and others that do use the existing crawler, you might wanna throw some monies towards @patent copper patron here -
https://www.patreon.com/rtt

Patreon

RTT is creating community focused software solutions | Patreon

Become a patron of RTT today:
Read posts by RTT and get access to exclusive
content and experiences on the world’s largest membership
platform for artists and creators.

patent copper Aug 10, 2020, 2:13 PM

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i wish i had some patreon only goodies, but so far i havent come up with any ^^

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 2:13 PM

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i know, advertising, but what the heck, its for a good cause

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@patent copper no need dude, just do what you do

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 2:15 PM

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i know, ~~advertising~~ reuploading, but what the heck, its for a "good" cause.
@zealous ore Sounds familiar... 😛

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 2:16 PM

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@wintry yoke :)) oh well, i'll be waiting for my ban then

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 2:16 PM

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DMCA

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 2:40 PM

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@zealous ore correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see CUP nor RHS files in the mod you linked earlier?

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this is what I see in its contents: https://i.imgur.com/12bEivb.png

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 4:37 PM

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@wintry yoke contains rhs retextures using rhs tags (hence why i seen it)

old jay Aug 10, 2020, 4:48 PM

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Why does "[BrigRR] Shepherd of Fire" sound familiar ?

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 6:15 PM

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@scarlet smelt You can ask the question about RHS to @zealous ore here.

scarlet smelt Aug 10, 2020, 6:15 PM

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yes

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man

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 6:16 PM

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OK, good luck then! 🙂

scarlet smelt Aug 10, 2020, 6:16 PM

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OK, good luck then! 🙂
@wintry yoke
Thanks again for the help

wintry yoke Aug 10, 2020, 6:17 PM

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No problem!

scarlet smelt Aug 10, 2020, 6:33 PM

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@zealous ore
Hello
How are you doing
I have read your message that arrived via the Steam platform
Which belongs to MOD Arma 3 IRAQ WARFARE MOD 2020 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2127320218&tscn=1597079908

And I did not understand what the issue or problem is
Please note that we did not violate any rights and did not use anything related to RHS Red Hammer Studios
However, my friend mistook the name between Red Hammer and RH Robert Hammer
Therefore, we are sorry for this unintended mistake

We do not make money or dealers from MOD
Just for play and fun like the rest of the Arma3 community

And if I did not understand well, please explain to me and what we must do to settle this

With all respect and appreciation to you

inland sphinx Aug 10, 2020, 6:36 PM

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@scarlet smelt That item contains tons of other unauthorized reuploads violating the steam subscriber agreement and our #rules, please take down EVERYTHING that you do not own/have made yourself/have explicit permission for

scarlet smelt Aug 10, 2020, 6:41 PM

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@inland sphinx
Well thank you for the clarification
Work is underway on that now
With all due respect to you and your intellectual and property rights

Stay safe, friend
Many wishes for you
And we apologize that we caused you any inconvenience

inland sphinx Aug 10, 2020, 6:44 PM

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Also keep in mind for mods like this
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2186112958 Where its just a plain reupload of someone elses mod, you CANNOT just change the license of someone elses content.
Here you are taking ACE, and just slapping APL-ND license onto content that's not even yours, you cannot do that.

scarlet smelt Aug 10, 2020, 7:08 PM

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@Dedmen
But we need the frying time to work on that and we do not want our mod on the Steam platform to be deleted because of your report.

Knowing that I am new to work with the person responsible for this, and when I ask him what is happening
It turns out that the person does not know much about matters of rights and fair use, and he read that by verb until he did not understand much

And he is a good person
But the question here
In the event that the Texter have been modified, such as changing color or adding a logo
And a lift on a steam platform, is that allowed?

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@inland sphinx

inland sphinx Aug 10, 2020, 7:14 PM

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PuFu needs to answer that

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And he's offline

scarlet smelt Aug 10, 2020, 7:15 PM

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@inland sphinx
Thanks for help
@zealous ore I hope you will answer my question when you are there. Thank you

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 8:27 PM

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@scarlet smelt seems you have removed the files in questionalready. the DMCA report is/was in relation to the following\

keeping rhs tags on retextures - i use an automated tool to deepscan files and hash check them - i just redid the same procedure right now, seems these files have been already removed, i also manually checked your steam upload
reuploading other mods without consent and changing their license as you please.

if you check http://www.rhsmods.org/page/EULA#re-textures there is this part that is very important
While in general we choose to tolerate re-textures of our original content, as per RHS NoDerivatives End User Agreement , we reserve the right to enforce our IP rights at our own discretion upon certain or all files, in accordance, but not limited to, the original author desire.
that means that indeed, in general, we do tolerate retextures, but we can always choose to enforce our non-derivative EULA, which is precisely what i do when i see fellow modders IP rights stepped on

turbid meadow Aug 10, 2020, 8:29 PM

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Good guy PuFu yayautism

zealous ore Aug 10, 2020, 8:29 PM

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I always check the files before i DMCA > also, we cannot remove the DMCA claim from your upload. I will send Steam Legal an e-mail to tell them files in question have been removed, but just as well, they will be contacting you themselves about it.

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i hope the above solves the issue. understand that i have filled over 40 DMCA just today, i do not have either the time, nor the patience to talk to each individual party who's in the wrong, just because they cannot follow other people End User Agreements and Steam Terms of Service.

scarlet smelt Aug 11, 2020, 1:05 PM

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@zealous ore
Hello again
Thank you for the response and the frank explanation
B Actually, I explained the matter to the person in charge, and when he understood the matter, he deleted everything
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2127320218&searchtext=IRAQ
And his question was specifically, I want to amend the re-textures only, and I do not want to steal or change anyone's work, and on the contrary, I respect the property rights, but I did not know that my work for this has violated the terms of re-textures use for all the material
And he thanks you from his heart for your good and respectful treatment with him
And this message from him is addressed to you, I just convey it as it is:

`***The message says.
Hello Arma3 community, officials and workers.
My name is Ali
from Iraq
I had a simple desire and dream since the days of the Arma
game
I embody the Iraqi army and Iraqi special operations I.S.O. F
and what happened in my country of wars that I witnessed and part of them.
I lost my brother in the battle and was injured, which made me leave the military profession
And my savior was the game Arma
Do not be surprised
And I will not go into more details
I wanted to embody what happened in my country inside the game, and we have a wonderful audience who love the idea and the game
But I swear to you that I respect all rights and I did not mean any of this

I'm sorry about that:
If there is any way you have to help me do that, I ask you to advise and act
With regard to you
And best wishes`***

That was his message, I just translated it:
RYAN

bronze haven Aug 12, 2020, 6:01 PM

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Star Wars Opposition Mod team, they were caught with stolen assets, right? Someone came to me offering to help with Project H2H who's involved with their team and I want to confirm I made the right decision in turning them away.

inland sphinx Aug 12, 2020, 6:03 PM

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Yes

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not only star wars, all opposition mods

bronze haven Aug 12, 2020, 6:05 PM

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Alright, thank you. My understanding of them was/is very limited, knew enough to be uncomfortable though.

half panther Aug 12, 2020, 6:06 PM

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"Is it a well known/big IP/Film/Company? -> Don't get involved" is more or less the one to always have in mind.

wintry yoke Aug 12, 2020, 6:54 PM

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Dude that ripped the RHS scopes's got Enhanced Movement mod reuploaded (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2127730830).

shell scaffold Aug 16, 2020, 1:48 PM

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Reuploads are amusing a bit today. I have found multiple groups that have reuploaded my mod without taking the main.pbo. All the other modules depend on it, without it they can not work as they depend on an API exposed by it. Of the 7 reuploads only 3 of them can possibly work. Their logs must be filled with errors especially if they do that with other mods too.

dark tulip Aug 16, 2020, 1:49 PM

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My mods also have a main.pbo, so will be fun if they try to combine them 🤣

shell scaffold Aug 16, 2020, 1:51 PM

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That likely explains the occasional person popping up and saying stuff doesn't work and I can never find anything wrong with it. They must be in one of those communities that has done a hack job.

inland sphinx Aug 16, 2020, 2:18 PM

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maybe they repacked your main.pbo contents into another pbo?

fiery condor Aug 16, 2020, 11:04 PM

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Sometimes I set fake config entries, and scripts in my missions so I can catch people when they steal my work.

wet narwhal Aug 17, 2020, 3:14 AM

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^ I remember a long long time ago while helping you setup Exile on a A3 server that I never saw fake shizzle 😂
(Spokane survivors was the community iirc)

fiery condor Aug 17, 2020, 4:19 AM

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lol

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I didn't do it for that, but there was a incident were I sorta wanted to call out a group of players who basically just copy and pasted stuff, edited a few values, and called it 100% their creation.

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It would be like me and my KP_Liberation stuff, Yea sure I done enough work to put my name on it, but I would never deleted credit for KP who did the groundwork.

hearty grotto Aug 17, 2020, 6:30 PM

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If I license my code under ALP-SA and somebody uses (a modified version of) that code in their project, does APL-SA force them to release their entire project under APL-SA or just my code (that they may have modified)?

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I've been trying to decide between APL and APL-SA for months now...

celest sundial Aug 17, 2020, 7:17 PM

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Share-alike is a copyright licensing term, originally used by the Creative Commons project, to describe works or licences that require copies or adaptations of the work to be released under the same or similar licence as the original.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share-alike

Describes it very well. The license applies to only content it refers to. Not the whole project. If they have a technical way to release your thing X standalone then they must do that. If it is something they can not seperate from the rest of the published files then they need to put it all under the license to not violate the terms.

hearty grotto Aug 17, 2020, 8:42 PM

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So the uhh drawback of the APL is that someone could simply re-release my work under a different license?

vast stump Aug 17, 2020, 8:46 PM

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no, noone can alter the license on your work

hearty grotto Aug 17, 2020, 8:51 PM

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But what's the difference to APL-SA then? Now I'm even more confused yellowchain

vast stump Aug 17, 2020, 8:56 PM

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https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Licenses

Licenses

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https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses

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maybe these help?

hearty grotto Aug 17, 2020, 9:03 PM

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I've stared at that flowchart on the bohemia site for way longer than I'd like to admit, but I've not come across the wiki page yet.

hearty grotto Aug 17, 2020, 9:28 PM

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Let's hope I got it right this time:
APL: If someone contributes to my code, they can release the result under any noncommercial license of their choice.
APL-SA: If someone contributes to my code, they can only release the result under APL-SA.

A mission using my code can be released under any license of the mission author's choice irrespective of the license applied to my code.
Is my understanding correct?

celest sundial Aug 17, 2020, 9:47 PM

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Unless the license is share alike (-SA) the person can release it under any license that does not infringe any terms of your license. If it is SA they must choose exactly the same license for a copy of your code that they might have remixed

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If you do not care how people use it as long as it is non-commercial then use APL. If you want to make sure that all variations of your code can again be remixed by others then go with the -SA version. Someone could choose to not allow remix or transform of their modified version of your file. Making it a deadend of possible enhancements. If it's SA people can just use it again as long as they also release under SA.

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Because of that SA licenses are usually a no-go for when looking at libraries to include within a project because it limits the freedom of choice regarding licenses for what is built with it. I personally recommend the non SA version. So simply APL. It ensures non commercial use and the people that modified your code have freedom of choice if they want to allow another remix of it or not.

hearty grotto Aug 17, 2020, 10:01 PM

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Thank you for the advice kind sirs!

golden topaz Sep 5, 2020, 3:07 PM

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Would I be allowed to add the insignias available on the BI store into a mod?
https://store.bistudio.com/products/a2-cdf
https://store.bistudio.com/products/a2-napa
https://store.bistudio.com/products/a2-chdkz
https://store.bistudio.com/products/a2-hred
https://store.bistudio.com/products/a2-flag
https://store.bistudio.com/products/a2-patch

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They're all pretty nice