pretty sure he moved on to create his own game so I don't believe so
#other_ip_topics
warm dew
turbid meadow
@vast stump Get Taviana back as in have it avaible as an arma 3 map?
vast stump
π€
turbid meadow
I'm just asking if thats what you mean
vast stump
You sure you have a legit version?
turbid meadow
I dont have any version, I didnt even know there was a map called Taviana 
vast stump
Of soz read an extra "I" threre
So yes if I recall right there should not be a Taviana for A3.
The maker cancelled his thing and all others are likely rips of his old work.
boreal nymph
Someone ported Taviana to Arma 3 without permission
Martin asked that no one host it on Arma 3 as he's making a standalone game called Taviana the Origins
autumn fable
i dont think he is acitve anymore, this illegal port has been online for quite a long time now
vast stump
doesnt mean its right.
autumn fable
this was not about whether it is right or not rather than his absence because back when he was active he quickly removed those uploads
wet narwhal
@vast stump I iddnt ask because of that, i'd like to get in contact cuz i found a group of people reupping and using it.
vast stump
you might be able to reach him through the BI forums private messages
cant remember what his nick was here.
wet narwhal
Nah, found his discord with the name of the game you posted so i found em again ^^,
earnest gull
sry just going to drop a rant and vent my frustrations before i blow a gasket π
it really grinds my gears that arma is a game with a community that is built backwords. How is it that communities that attempt to go "legit" and make and create their own content have about 20x harder of a time doing so than communities like anzus gaming where every possible law and tos is broken and yet nothing ever happens to them? sure i plan to monetize , simply because i dont know every single possible aspect of development so i need to hire and pay other developers to work on things i cant do. Monetize simply for the reason to just make atleast some kind of money back so that im not wasting thousands of dollars. but .. you monetize = you not being allowed to practically use any mods from anywhere. hense being forced to use vanilla stuff or pay a modeler 25-30$ an hour to work on an import and take his sweet ass time making it because the longer he takes , the more money he makes. like this shit is just dumb cant do anything , stuck with using vanilla stuff , community will never succeed because no one cares about vanilla assets and features.... you dont monetize = not making any money back and essentially just throwing away money. Yet heres a community like Anzus where the owner openly talks about the theft and larceny he does , acknowledges that hes not allowed to do so, and says "dmca or bohemia cant fking touch me" , & yet they are allowed to do this and never have any punishments towards them. it litterly makes no sense .
if you go legit = RIP to either your money or monetization if you fail to follow 1 of the 5 million sets of rules you need to follow. But if you steal content & illegally monetize = you can straight up rub it in BI's face and theyll just smile and bend over for you. i dont understand arma and quite frankly feel like this game though very good and even probably my favorite game of all time, the community is all fucked. somehow i never see issues like this with rust? gta 5? .etc . perhaps its time i quit this game because unless i turn myself into anzus , theres no other way of me being able to do anything .
end of rant. sry needed to get this out of my system -_-
turbid meadow
yet they are allowed to do this and never have any punishments towards them
They did get their BattlEye disabled iirc, but yeah that isnt really much @earnest gull
earnest gull
they have battleye
inland sphinx
I heard that battleye thing too. But if that really happened it didn't last longer than a day or two
earnest gull
they have battleye he runs spoofer now . and idk what else they use but its something that involves VAC because anyone vacbanned they need to request server acess to bypass it
turbid meadow
Could be Infistar or something like that, dunno
inland sphinx
yeah infistar includes that
vast stump
Mostly monetizing came into light with the life communities that Anzus also is. I dont know if any other game mode has had the need for so much money being put into things. Perhaps they have just put in the time on a lot longer time period and thus have got the work done for free
dense field
You seem to be ignoring the fact that all the best content arma has ever seen was made for free, by people who are passionate about the communities they play with and want to Give something back
earnest gull
i must be blind because i dont see that . all i see is "money this money that "
turbid meadow
RHS, ACE, CUP
vast stump
I cant name any other mod/game mode that get money from this like life stuff does. can you?
life stuff was very much free too at the beginning
and it was developed by ppls passionate about it
earnest gull
rhs,ace,cup is nice and all but lets say for examply i wanted a brick call that cup has . in order for me to use that brick wall . id need to download cup , 5,000,0000 dependancies and make my modpack about 30+ gbs more with all this stuff that i dont need simply to use one wall .
inland sphinx
Or you could just port the A2 wall over yourself
vast stump
they are all meant to be used as a whole
dense field
or find someone passionate enough to make it for free, but 99.9% of people who would take you up on that are scammers looking for money
earnest gull
furthermore , i also never see or hear about any content creators issuing dmcas/law suits. people simply dont even protect their own ip. unless the ip is featured on steam workshop. like a dude can simply just use stolen ip stuff upload to their google drive and wam . nothing is done . so really , whats the point? whats the point of trying to be legitimate , when you can just be like those people, and nothing will ever happen? it just simply makes no sense to me . quite frankly it angers me to the core because in my eyes .. its simply not fair to those who want to just make a fun cool unique mod and not have to worry about all the politics
dark tulip
lol... ask Dedmen, he has a daily job issuing DMCA's π€£
vast stump
gdrive stuff gets taken down when they come up in public.
if you want to be part of the community here for example you go legit
if you dont and want to work in the dark like Anzus you do that
Anzus is all about making money off the kids who play
if thats what you are after, it cant be done in legit way
or well sure it can but it takes the investment of time/money to develop all you need for it
pretty much like making a game
dense field
Also most mod teams are fine with private uploads for within community's, eg a3s, their problem lies with a) people monetizing it and b) outdated public uploads to workshop leading to bs bugs reports
*also the principle of steam tos being broken
dark tulip
^^ this.... the fact that we have to work with different licenses/EULA's which don't match is a bit annoying...
inland sphinx
i also never see or hear about any content creators issuing dmcas/law suits
Well the only people that know about the DMCA are the sender and the receiver.
Do you think the receiviers will publicly say they have had themselves taken down by a DMCA due to their illegal activity?
No. They will say "we accidentally deleted that, will be back up shortly"
dark tulip
but in the end, there is no reason to steal someone's work... and then be surprised that it has been taken down or have a community against you.
dense field
in the end you have 3 options
- attempt to find some legit decent people to make things for free because they are passionate about what your doing, not likely because of the toxic nature of the life community
- pay a shit-ton of money to get it made for you, and probably get ripped off/scammed
- give up
π€£
dark tulip
actually it's:
- use existing content available for free
- create your own content
- have someone make content for you (and pay for it)
- don't use it
vast stump
snake u so salty
but yeah natural organic growth of a mod and a community around it is that people get together to make stuff and play stuff
most life stuff is currently not that
inland sphinx
- make a DLC
vast stump
that could be an option too. but it still needs ppl to make stuff
dark tulip
but at least you'll get paid for it in the end
dense field
no idea what your talkn' aboot'π
old jay
Re: The Rant
-
If you're in it for the money, yes, please do quit.
-
Legal stuff like DMCA's (or better yet Lawsuits), typically don't happen in the public eye, hence why you don't hear much.
-
Communities grow organically. That is, if you are decent, helpful, make good missions, play fairly, etc., etc. then people will WANT to join your community. Of the large/long term Arma communities, most have formed in this way. None went out and shelled out a lot of money for a massive server which had no existing community to back it up.
Arma is about the game, the experience, the camaraderie. It is NOT about making money.
earnest gull
- Clearly you didnt read it correctly. Im not in it for the money. But i do want to be monetized to atleast make atleast something back from the thousands ive spent.
- Agian im not in it for the money! If i wasni wouldve quit a long long time ago. But good content = good devs= 90% of the time they over value themselves and charge you money. Even developers who love your ideas and your project will at the end of the day still charge you an arm and a leg.
strange shadow
yes
take that as a hint
when we spend thousands of hours creating something. it's not gonna be because someone needs help with something
it si because we have something we want to make
old jay
Not in it for the money but 90% of your rant was about Monetisation π€
strange shadow
if you need massive manpower to make your project.. maybe revise the plan to someething you can handle yourself.. don't come whining about nobody signing on without getting paid
most of us will say pay us just to get you to stop pestering
earnest gull
Someone will eventually say β if you want good content then make it urselfβ . To that i say .. i work full time. And i highly doubt anyone can work full time and learn/do scripting, modeling, mapping, configs , and manage a community simotaniusly . So youre going to need help and help needs motivation
old jay
I work 40+ hours a week and I take time to learn how to use modelling tools. YT is great for that.
dense field
But good content = good devs= 90% of the time they over value themselves and charge you money.
Wrong
earnest gull
Im afraid to use yt for modeling . I still have ptsd when i decided to listen to JAF about maps
old jay
Well dont bandy the term about in that way.
Suck it up, recognise that time == money. If you dont have the time, odds are you'll have to pay someone money. If you want what you want, make it yourself. It may take me years to finish my project, but at least I'm learning.
earnest gull
All in all this convo was originally like 12 hours ago and i just needed to vent. Since then i pretty much said to myself fuck it im just going to make maps no more communities. Idk where (deffinatly not in workshop) but ill look for a place to upload my projCts
Nd the pun wasnt too smart of idea id admit
lean plover
Over 80% at CUP work full time, especially the most valuable parts. And we are about to Release another major Update with in two weeks... For free...
earnest gull
Pls tell me it wont have 10000 dependancies? I legit have like 9gbs left π
winter perch
hey guys what's going on in this th- π
lean plover
This project by now consuned way over 50k workhours, several thousands for tools and servers and libraries. We do this all for free because it's Our hobby, and we want it to be free for everybody else. Without paywall access or any other form.
And for dependencies, they stay as they where
dense field
Also cup has a massive total of 3 dependencies
Units requires weapons & vehicles, cause duh
Maps requires core, cause duh
π€¦
Unless you were talking about internal .pbo dependencies, cause your were trying to pull individual parts of it apart.....
earnest gull
well yeah .. my next question was going to be if theres way to only get terrain objects as all id use cup for would be stuff for my terrain
lean plover
That would be CUP core
cursive sedge
I'm not quite sure what you mean with 10000 dependencies, CUP have very few dependencies π
the terrains depend on terrains core
fiery egret
Nothing personal, guys with the veteran tag, but it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that each time people are complaining about RHS, CUP or the likes, and use the word "dependency", they mean the fact that they have to download around 10GB of data to place one truck or RPG on the map.
Unless you're always taking that literally as a rhetorical device π€·
That has always seemed obvious to me.
strange shadow
then they can port the required a2 content themselves
just because you only want one part of a big mod doesn't give you the right to take just that
it's not like they are entitled to it
strange shadow
@bleak vapor please pm me when and if you read this!
dark tulip
tbf... it's cheaper to buy a new HDD than try to build or have someone build content for you... just my 2 cents here...
cursive sedge
a meal at a restaurant is also (most often) cheaper than the salary of the cook and waitress during your time there?
strange shadow
pretty sure you understood what he intended to write
wet narwhal
Sorta
fiery egret
It's not really my issue here, but I feel that I should play the devil's advocate here (we're running a public server with CUP + RHS so we hear these complaints quite often)
- You can't ask all randoms that want to join your server to download 20GB of mods (as we do, btw π )
1b) Not everyone has such a good internet connection as you do. Some have to download RHS for HOURS in order to be able to play. Yes, these do exist. - You can't ask all randoms to spend additional money for HDDs just to play your mod (kind of a dick move, tbh)
- I personally have a real issue with my Arma that I have installed both on my PC (where I have zettabytes of space) and my laptop, where I only have 200GB of space, most of which is already used for development, and it actually IS an issue that each time I start steam, arma is trying to download all my subscribed mods from Workshop π
cursive sedge
probably one of the reason why steam workshop is a bit frowned upon by many communities
fiery egret
Note: I'm not advocating taking RHS apart and stealing models from it but just stating that people who complain about the size may have valid points
dark tulip
Arma mods always have been big, especially mods with high quality content. Problem is that people are not used to it because no other game is build around modded content, so they expect that content is already there and fully optimized....
cursive sedge
as both a content creator and community admin there are many options/solutions that are conflicting π
especially around versioning
lean plover
Well, one big intention, if not even the main intention for CUP was, to have it all in one place. To not have to download a shit ton of Single mods for each vehicle/weapon. We then relized all in one would blow up like hell, so we Split it to what it is now
And also a big potion of modders AND endusers wanted it also. So it is what it is. And if ppl really want to play CUP / rhs, they will find a way do have enough bandwidth and storage
fiery egret
btw is there a good way to force steam to download mods on one computer but NOT the other one?
I remember someone suggesting capping the download speed to 1kB/s but that's just a lousy workaround.
fiery egret
But I do want to subscribe to mods like CUP and RHS on my main PC π
strange shadow
so download them and copy to local folder and re add in steam launcher
but it won't update them
fiery egret
So I take that as a "no" π
cursive sedge
steamworks can do that for you
teal relic
No, the steam client cannot do that by default. Yes it is possible to do so with all the other options mentioned.
cursive sedge
that's how we do it on our CI servers
yes, steam client can do that
but you need to tell it via steamworks
same way as arma launcher interacts
teal relic
Edited my statement to clarify what I was saying.
fiery egret
Hmm... maybe I should uninstall Arma on my laptop and then install it manually, so that steam "doesn't know" that it's installed there and won't attempt to update things. Is that possible?
cursive sedge
probably
as long as it's not in a steam library
you can download arma with steamcmd
but that will also download steam workshop mods π
until downloads timeout
fiery egret
π€¦
cursive sedge
our event launcher uses downloads without subscription
fiery egret
Yeah. I guess developers are not the real target of Steam, here π
cursive sedge
and includes "garbage collection" that removs non needed mods
cursive sedge
it's an issue that each community handles differently from an organizational perspective and therefor also from a technical perspective
dark tulip
which makes it a bigger issue to prevent people/communities from not taking your content π€
regarding Steam and mod subscriptions on multiple computers... isn't possible to share games with other accounts (family system), and then have separate mods for each account?
warm dew
so quick question, I'm making a terrain tutorial for my community based on the pmc one and some other around (basically rewriting a big one) and was wondering if putting the sources and naming authors at the bottom was enough or if I needed more than that. I'm making my own pictures/text but have to copy things like command lines and launch parameters (Things you can't really go around). I'm asking because I don't want to steal anything accidentally by ignorance.
lean plover
Naming the original sources should be enough
strange shadow
yeh just link and credit all the information you used π
warm dew
π
earnest gull
Any dmca experts wanna help me out with a situation im having ?
strange shadow
post your problem and whoever knows will answer
lean plover
π
earnest gull
Pretty much i had someone file a false dmca on a model that was specifically made for me and all full owners rights transfered to me with documentation and all. This person took my model off the workshop but now has it on their server and openly go around offering to sell it to people. Dmca wont even let me submit a counterclaim to provide proof because this person is from norway dispite the fact that they broke the law. Ive messaged dmca and been talking to them all day and to summerize they pretty much cant do anything about it. I feel like there has to be some way to fight this. Its blatent hijacking of my property π¦. Any suggestions on what else i can do?
turbid meadow
Mmh send a message to steam support?
earnest gull
I tried the bots just auto message me telling me to contact dmca π
earnest gull
Will do thanks. Some ppl told me to get a lawyer but imo 1. Its too expensive to fight over a model of a H2 Hummer and its also not really fair that i have to spend money on legal council over my own stuff π¦ i love the arma community but sometimes i just cant stand life communities
inland sphinx
Dmca wont even let me submit a counterclaim
thats nonsense too. There is no "Mister DMCA" DMCA is a legal document, on a piece of paper
You are probably talking about steam
and they have to let you counterclaim. Maybe you need to email them
If its really yours, the lawyer would win.
DMCA missuse is fellony, it's a serious offence. And if you win you can make the looser pay
earnest gull
i litterly spoke with dmca support and they pretty much told me they cant help me because the person is outside the united states
lean plover
@earnest gull
You seem to not fully understand the concept of DMCA. If you file a notice, the hoster (if sufficient evidence is provides) must investigate and then Block access to the content. If a counterclaim is filed, the case moves on to higher legal authorities.
DMCA.com can do nothing for you
Other than providing you with information on how to push the case to court ect
earnest gull
well these were the answers ive gotten when i asked on how to submit a counter. The email pretty much just said i had the option to submit the counter and provided a template id need to follow. but i have zero clue what to do with it as in how to actully send it. thats why i went to the site to ask them about it and they said 550$ to submit but then said they cants help because its outside the US.... idk non of it is making sense to me π
lean plover
In this case, find out where the other Party is located and get a lawyer for International copyright...
vast stump
@earnest gull is the content on steam?
earnest gull
it was on steam , yes
lyric hollow
With regards to 2D image to 3D "conversions" and IP rights and such, what should / shouldn't I do when attempting to convert a 2D image to 3D while maintaining correct IP rights? Was thinking about modeling/converting a few vehicles and their variants from images as an experiment to see if the process could be feasible, but does the original 2D image holder have IP rights over my 3D conversion?
vast stump
where are the images from might be the first thing to consider
and what rights are you given on how to use them
I mean people model with images as reference all the time
but im not quite sure what you mean by converting vehicles from images
some designs can be protected or trademarked
lyric hollow
I thought there were was a way to turn a 2D image to a 3D model using Blender, but then you would have to clean it up anyways.
vast stump
theres no magic button to do that
lyric hollow
True, I guess Google is a bit weird at showing me search results then. π¦
vast stump
what exactly have you looked for?
lyric hollow
"3d model from 2d image blender 2.8"
vast stump
I dont think you have the right idea going on
lyric hollow
Agreed.
vast stump
what is it that youre trying to do?
lyric hollow
It was a curiosity to begin with, seeing how the process worked, and seeing if I "could" take a 2D image and make it 3D, then seeing if I could bring it to Arma.
vast stump
there is a technique called Photogrammetry that turns series of images into 3d object but it needs quite special stuff and cant be made from some random image
no
or well you can project an image on a flat surface as a texture sure
but is that what you want
or do you want the thing in the picture as 3d object
lyric hollow
Well, the original objective was a 2D thing to a 3D object, but I realized this might not be practical.
Apologies for asking.
vast stump
its fine to ask but your question in itself is diffiult to understand as it can mean 2 things
you can make a piece of paper like thing that in 3D world has your 2d picture on it
lyric hollow
True, sometimes I have issues with asking the right questions correctly. π¦
vast stump
or you can use the 2d picture as a reference and model the 3d model
but eithe way there are no magic make me a 3D model buttons
lyric hollow
Okay, all I needed to know. Thanks for the insight. Sorry to diverge from IP to model making. π¦
vast stump
well to touch the IP thing again since you are being secretive of what you want to turn into 3D it is possibe you are not authorized to use the design in the picture
for example designs/IP in games are property of the game maker and often remaking them can lead to trouble
some authors endorse fan made stuff even on other games, some dont
lyric hollow
I was going to start with a generic US M551 Sheridan for the process. But I could see where this might cause trouble if I say used a design where I wasn't authorized to remake it.
vast stump
well you may have seen bunch of mods with all kinds of real life vehicles
and old stuff/military stuff like that is ok to make
but the process is quite a bit bigger than find nice pic -> turn this into a model.
so what you might want to look up first is "how to use Blender 2.8"
lyric hollow
True, thanks for the insight @vast stump , it looks like I got some work to do. I have used Blender 2.79 but I see they've changed the interface in 2.8
But I digress. Thank you for the info and have a good day. π
I wasn't trying to be secretive or malicious with this, it was a curiosity to start with. I wasn't going to push the limit, as that would be bad.
vast stump
π
cursive sedge
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1639774751 Yura Petrov's UH-60
abstract crest
How did you know π π€¦
lean plover
@spare hull
spare hull
Im not sure if I mind it that much, but he should have asked for permission first
earnest gull
ive asked this before but never really got a concrete answer. Whats BI's stance on using take on helis ?
old jay
Use only the sample data provided by BI and you must adhere to the license.
inland sphinx
BI's stance is stated in the license they published the files under
And the ToH EULA states "not allowed to modify, share, ... game files"
rapid escarp
Well, there have been some case exceptions to that w/r/t the ToH Superhind. But involved asking DnA (I think), directly for permission to port and modify assets that hadn't been released as public data
dark tulip
what is it with these guys which simply take your mod and repack it for no reason...
dark tulip
Doing that π
If people would simply ask, have a good reason and give proper credits it's something else
earnest gull
they want that credit. i still laugh everytime anzus say they made the satcom bunker
strange shadow
they told me they didn't make it
they told me they bought it
then offered to share it with me
-.-
teal relic
They "buy" an aweful lot of things that end up being stolen. 
earnest gull
yep. their logic is , "if i bought it , how am i supposed to know if it was stolen or not" then use that as defense for whenever bohemia comes knocking π€¦ . aaaaaand theres also this https://gyazo.com/f126eb5761beff8955623570ea316f56
abstract crest
LOL and then obfuscate their own PBOs to try and hide what is in then
earnest gull
one of their last updates they forgot to do that xD
abstract crest
Lol
dark tulip
guess I'll be starting a new business... taking assets from random people and sell those for big money π€£
earnest gull
mission was wide open ... all 36,000 lines lmaoo
abstract crest
π€¦
inland sphinx
not like you can get most of that stuff online for free somewhere anyway because its all stolen from somewhere. Just need to know from where
earnest gull
majority of his "custom assets and models" was taken from reallifeRPG its a german roleplay community
vast stump
which in turn raises the question where did they obtain them..
dark tulip
Ask random "creator" to make an item, let that person "steal" existing content, "buy" or "receive" content, claim someone stole it from you π€£π€£
vast stump
sounds about right
leaden sandal
Hi how do i go about filing a dmca on someone who uploaded outside the workshop? Is there like a dmca website i need to report it to or something ?
lean plover
platforms like google drive or dropbox have a mail address / contact forms for it
where is it hosted?
vast stump
there is no such website. depending where the files are hosted you would have to contact the hosting company
π π
that
leaden sandal
Google drive and a3sync
lean plover
on the google drive link, click the dots on the upper right corner, then "report abuse" (or whatever it is in your language)
for arma3sync, you need to find out who the hosting company is and file the DMCA via their support
leaden sandal
thanks man! appreciate the help β€
dark tulip
Just checked out the AnzusGaming mods over Arma3Sync, and found their hosting company... so easy to send a DMCA over their content.
It takes some time, but can be found without being an IT expert.
some time
which means about 10 minutes π
leaden sandal
yeah but ive heard the owner likes to use ppls info against them and threaten to leak their personal info so I don't really wanna do that.
tight matrix
Hey @vast stump however incredible this may sound, all our assets are created in-house short of some very good community made mods like tfar,ace,cba,cup terrains, recolor, nirarms, sab and tryk. Which we all use according to licenses/allowance by the authors. We're trying really hard to get rid of our image as the usual stealing life server. And yes, our mods get stolen aswell, all our models are created by hand (vehicles/object/buildings) or are giftet to us by community members provided they send us a receipt of buying them from the original creator (mostly via platforms like turbosquid or similar). We publish all our financial information in a yearly report, there is no shady bs going on with paying developers or similar, we close donations once we are funded, respect all licenses and are publishing content/open sourcing software ourself to give back to the community (desktop clients, libraries, scripts and soon our old terrain "havenborn"). You can also take a peek at our https://wiki.realliferpg.de/index.php?title=Credits Credits page to check on everything we use.
inland sphinx
ReallifeRPG is the only 100% legit life server that I know and trust π€ modded that is.
though be careful with turbosquid. Buying stolen stuff from a thief doesn't make it less stolen
tight matrix
We only accept these rarely and community members mostly just ask if they can buy something for us and we provide them the source to buy from that we check
I just checked to make sure and in all those cases the models were bought from hum3d or cgtrader. Here is that list (its in german though) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1a55IA_4rTL-2z9I8vFYR7rivrXSqtzQi_dTKGufSTbg/edit#gid=0
But since our devs have gone from putting models into arma to just creating them from scratch this has not happened in quite a while
strange shadow
a life server that doesn't steal other ppls stuff and claim they made it?
sounds almost too good to be true π
tight matrix
Well thats why we're not getting rid of that reputation and we understand why ^^
vast stump
I do hope its true and that you guys keep that stance.
earnest gull
@bleak vapor @inland sphinx are these yours ? https://gyazo.com/a4f0fcdff40ff84f3854c46102d90cd7 https://gyazo.com/87dcb52fc4c2c09ff8bede31105d54f4
bright tide
Lol, they resigned all of them with their own key.
dull spear
resigning is just fine
can be even good practice/necessary
otherwise you trust the signee not to abuse his key
shell scaffold
Especially if you want to ensure a version and the signer doesn't use a different key everytime.
inland sphinx
Yes
Already know about vanguard gaming
They are using Arma3sync, and are "not" monetized. So doing nothing wrong currently
cold harbor
@knotty vapor I was just having a look at your latest change log: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQ0qsrJ_IjdnCUh30_fs5WEHP8hpAB3lePO7T13KEWutIMxomLRM-L1o_yr0HuAZ-l2huO6Svx2dy8Q/pub
And it seems to me that some of your vehicles are stolen, especially the BMW from this sceenshot: https://imgur.com/FAoBbOq
Because that looks very similar to the one in Forza
knotty vapor
lol and you would correct we have permission from take 10 studio from back in A1 days however the model has been rebuilt multiple time since. so there is zero original content other then dimensions. thanks for the interest
cold harbor
@knotty vapor I find that hard to believe, would you care to show us all this said permission? I would be very interested read it because you say they gave you permission back in a1 days but the car in question wasn't even made back then so did they just say you could rip all their model past, present and future?
I also find it hard to believe that the model has "been rebuilt multiple time" because apart from the lightbar it still looks identical to the Forza model even still using the same textures
CityLife3 sceenshot: https://i.imgur.com/FAoBbOq.jpg
Forza Motorsport 3 sceenshot: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/forzamotorsport/images/8/8a/FH4_BMW_M5_09_Front.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190208171950
earnest gull
I mean ... a bmw can only look like a bmw so many ways. I dont understand why everyone right away says forza when theres plenty of other sources it couldve been imported from π€·
cold harbor
@earnest gull Well @knotty vapor admitted it was ripped from Forza but with permission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ke2_41XS-I
And the fire truck in that video is ripped from Driver - San Francisco
https://www.igcd.net/vehicle.php?id=37764
So something fishy is definitely going on at citylife
vivid musk
And your brand new to this Discord account with 3 posts targeting a specific community fills us all with a great sense of urgency, lemme tell ya
shell scaffold
You'd be surprised how many car mods for a variety of games consist of models ripped from Forza.
You kinda seem to be up in arms over a nonissue.
bright tide
ripped models have never been okay.
I'm not saying that the City life one is ripped, but if it is it'll get removed. DMCA'd. However it might end up.
especially if any life server is making money off those ripped models.
Then the original IP holders at Forza will be taking action for sure,.
Fortunately Arma community is not a Facepunch community,.
shell scaffold
I mean, by all means, I wasn't saying that they were okay-
old jay
If you believe a NON_MONETISED server/owner is using ripped assets, contact the original IP rights holder and inform them of the issue.
If you believe a BI MONETISED server/owner, is using ripped assets, contact the BI Monetisation team and inform them of the issue.
If you believe EITHER server/owner, is using ripped assets, and has a presence on HERE or the BI FORUMS, contact the FORUM/DISCORD Moderators and inform them of the issue.
And finally, @cold harbor whilst its great that you don't want to see others illicitly use the content of others, you are in no position to ask others to show you proof.
Additionally, they are under no obligation to share any information with you.
inland sphinx
@cold harbor if you want to help. Report them https://www.bohemia.net/monetization/approved/arma3
and provide all the proof you can find.
Thanks.
inland sphinx
@prisma snow
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1889089591
Advanced Rappelling
Advanced Urban Rappelling
Advanced Towing
Boxloader
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1889089978
ShackTac UI
MRB Air Visibility
Devas Autopilot Mod
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1889090353
Zeus Enhanced.
I suggest you read our #rules and take these illegal reuploads down.
Otherwise you will be removed from the Arma Discord and the BI Forums.
I already removed the #communities_arma3 post of your unit which is using these illegal reuploads.
lapis spoke
yikes
vast stump
Solution to the above would be steam workshop collection
inland sphinx
They already have a collection. But for some reason they packed these mods seperately.. Don't really understand the reasoning..
prisma snow
@inland sphinx I have perms for advanced
Read their license
Devas uses GPL as well
Boxloader is also GPL
So is Zeus Enhanced
inland sphinx
"uses GPL as well"
means
βCopyright 2018 [Devastator_cm] This item is not authorized for posting on Steam, except under the Steam account named Devastator_cm β
doesn't apply to you?
Sounds fishy
inland sphinx
Also Deva's stuff says "copyright Devastator_cm" can't find anything about GPL
prisma snow
aside from that
inland sphinx
And considering his workshop upload literally says that you cannot upload it
"aside from that"? you just lied and said its GPL while it is not π€
inland sphinx
And ShackTac?
The mods (STUI) may NOT be modified, included in other mods in whole or part
prisma snow
ill have to fix that
yeah again problems to fix
Adv. XXX is under MIT though
its open source so as long as its not redistributed as a replacement
inland sphinx
I'm talking about the Steam Subscriber agreement, not the content's license
prisma snow
Well i contributed to MY work via posting it
and via rekeying and modifying some parts
edits must not be maid to EVERY pbo
otherwise rekey reuploads like RHS for units would be also not allowed
ones that have been up and untouched for months like https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1682959577&searchtext=RHS
inland sphinx
Something not being taken down doesn't make it legal.
prisma snow
i think youre going on a bit of a crusade here
inland sphinx
Lets quote our forum rules.
19) Posting addon/mod other content without permission
The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.
youre not a lawyer and hence shouldn't be interpreting legal materials to your whim
i have permission from everybody I don't intend to fix
abstract crest
πΏ
prisma snow
ShackTac and devas will be removed
inland sphinx
i have permission from everybody I don't intend to fix
I have just shown that you don't. And you agreed.
prisma snow
Advanced I have permission for
boxloader is on github and hence is under the github general licence which gives permission
inland sphinx
MRB is on github and hence is under the github general licence which gives permission
WT literal F?
Where did you get that from
prisma snow
the github general licence
inland sphinx
Such a thing doesn't exist
If you put stuff onto github without a license that means you reserve all rights to yourself.
fiery egret
Dedmen's right on that one. That's precisely why they (github) encourage you to select a license when you create a project
inland sphinx
You violated the discord/forum rules, the steam subscriber agreement. Then lied about the mods license and you having permission.
And its me who has a grudge?
I'm not gonna repeat myself.
Take these illegal reuploads down.
turbid meadow
nice crusade btw even after i fixed tfars problems
What problems did you fix?
turbid meadow
So you fixed a problem that you yourself created so you did net nothing
prisma snow
you seem to be deliberately reading that wrong
I (me myself, my persons) fixed problems (a rights violation) with TFAR (task force arrowhead radio beta, created in part by Dedmen) by removing it from my pack (created in part by me, as well as various other authors which I either have permission from, or am in the process of obtaining permission from, or removing their content if licencing forbids)
turbid meadow
You message even after i fixed tfars problems
implies that you fixed a problem of TFAR
Since you say tfars problems
turbid meadow
Wat
prisma snow
lay off im fixing problems, most of which are caused by a dumbass who told me some shit was under licencing that it wasnt
lean plover
@prisma snow
IT'S not a crusade against you, but a general fight against those who shit on common rules, licenses and community agreements
prisma snow
apparently the modding team here needs some cleaning up
I'm not shitting on anything
any tos that im in violation of i'm fixing
and i call it a crusade because not 10 hours before i had the same problem with TFAR which is now fixed and was promptly banned even after fixing the issue
inland sphinx
You were banned from TFAR discord for the same thing
Rule 4 in TFAR discord
- If you are found having illegally reuploaded anything to the Steam workshop. Consider yourself banned
It just so happens, that our #rules in Arma discord, have a similar clause.
turbid meadow
Would've been smart to fix the issues before you upload stuff to the workshop
cursive sedge
@inland sphinx there's actually a github publishing license, it's part of the "Terms of Service", https://help.github.com/en/articles/github-terms-of-service
Note: If you publish your source code in a public repository on GitHub, according to the Terms of Service, other GitHub users have the right to view and fork your repository within the GitHub site. If you have already created a public repository and no longer want users to have access to it, you can make your repository private. When you convert a public repository to a private repository, existing forks or local copies created by other users will still exist. For more information, see "Making a public repository private."
of course that doesn't give any rights to publish to steam workshop
vivid musk
It doesn't really seem to give any rights, other than the right to make a duplicate within Github not to be exported
cursive sedge
correct
inland sphinx
its basically saying "you can look at it, and take a screenshot"
cursive sedge
make a mental note π
fiery egret
Well, at least you can see how the author tackled a problem and fixed a solution, for example, so that you can rewrite it yourself, later.
Back in the day I was forced to reverse engineer the code for some windows software to figure out how the author was working around a Windows bug, because I was writing similar stuff as that person. I would have loved to have access to their code, even if it meant I was just allowed to look at it.
Specifying an open source license for your code on Github is obviously better, though π€·
dark tulip
Open Source doesn't mean Free to Use... it only allows you to see inside the code to make sure it doesn't contain bugs (or Chinese Spying Scripts), or to see how to work with it as a developer.
And looking at the APL licenses it allows a lot, but a developer can still add his own ToS. Not to mention Steam EULA (which requires you to own all rights, and then give them to Valve)... which obviously isn't the case when you reupload/repack something while the creator tells you not to...
inland sphinx
I also think its nice as a "you can look at it and learn from it. But not copy paste it. You need to understand the concept and write it yourself"
fiery egret
While that's fine for 50 lines of code, anything above that would be sadism on the part of the original author π
And yeah, I meant Free Software
@prisma snow boxloader has a LICENSE file that states it's APL, from what I can see.
FYI: And if there is no LICENSE file, then that usually means that the author didn't remember or care to add a license - not that they put it under "all rights restricted" on purpose. Messaging them or creating a github issue is a fast way to get hold of the author and ask them to add the missing license file
dark tulip
or ask directly if you can have permission to repack it...
inland sphinx
He said boxloader is GPL
fiery egret
Although asking to add a LICENSE file will benefit more people, in the long run π
dark tulip
hey... TFAR is on GitHub, maybe I should just take it and upload it as a new mod π
shell scaffold
βI contributed my work by reuploading itβ just screams heavily of DSP
abstract crest
I need to upload a version of TFAR without Dedmen's kill switch π π€ π
fiery egret
NKTFAR? π
prisma snow
im in contact with devs of devas, boxloader and mrb to get explicit permission currently
until such a time that all of those are fixed, our current SW build features no unauthorized content
lapis spoke
@prisma snow authorization doesnβt matter if you arenβt the original author and are reuploading. Still against the rules
prisma snow
reupload of modified content is permitted
such as a reupload of repackaged ace with only the modules we want
all our content is modified
there are no straight reuploads of a mod under a different name
inland sphinx
reupload of modified content is permitted
Only if you have permission of all contributors (might relate to license)
and permission to monetize the content (might relate to license)
prisma snow
hence
im in contact with devs of devas, boxloader and mrb to get explicit permission currently
lean plover
Is this still going.......?
obsidian verge
πΏ
turbid meadow
Btw has KA Weapons been looked at in terms of IP violations?
lean plover
KA has multiple dmcas and doesn't care
turbid meadow
Oh yikes
old jay
And KA is banned from all Bohemia platforms
inland sphinx
@prisma snow https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1889089978 you can't just relicense GPL content that you don't own as APL.
In addition.
You have Kimi HMDs in there
You may not use this add-on (nor any of its parts) in any other add-on or mod (not even partially) nor redistribute or
mirror it without Kimi_uy's prior permission and agreement.
ryanszombies
- Using content of the Z&D modification and publicly redistributing it as part of a different modification is not allowed unless permission is given by official Z&D developers.
prisma snow
@inland sphinx apl refers to my content
prisma snow
Note how it says CUSTOM CONTENT UNDER APL
old jay
!mute @prisma snow 90d
bright brambleBOT
Silence!! Γ²_Γ³
...
I keel u, @prisma snow!! Γ_Γ
lapis spoke
@inland sphinx anything wrong with me making a custom radio for tfr?
just wondering, not so great with the whole license thing
vast stump
you dont have to touch the original tfar stuff at all to make such addon, so it is fine.
inland sphinx
As long as you don't take/copy original TFAR stuff, you don't need to give a damn about the license.
inland sphinx
@prisma snow
@Dedmen apl refers to my content
There is no content from you in there though, its just a reupload of other mods π€
There however is APL content in there (boxloader, ACE) but that's not your content.
reupload of modified content is permitted
all our content is modified
there are no straight reuploads of a mod under a different name
You are lying again.. why?
Boxloader_ace in your upload
{
"name": "boxloader_ace.pbo",
"fullName": "addons\\boxloader_ace.pbo",
"hash": "5DCE25C52031FC4D4DE68D31D6D4C7E4EE3C2822",
"bytes": 1238
}
boxloader_ace in the original workshop upload (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1201499127)
{
"name": "boxloader_ace.pbo",
"fullName": "addons\\boxloader_ace.pbo",
"hash": "5DCE25C52031FC4D4DE68D31D6D4C7E4EE3C2822",
"bytes": 1238
}
Exact same hash, no modification done whatsoever.
I'm starting to loose patience.
The workshop crawler found 533 reuploads of your "all our content is modified"
I wonder what kind of modifications would cause 533 people to also reupload the exact same stuff to the workshop?
Easy answer, there are no modifications.
shell scaffold
You do get he was muted yesterday right?
lean plover
no snapping back then π
shell scaffold
I doubt he cares or has read it
lean plover
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
cold harbor
@old jay Why am I "in no position to ask others to show you proof."?
I feel since City Life is monetized and sell cars on it's website I should have every right to ask where said model came from and sure they are under no obligation to share the information but if they are 100% legit they would have no problem share that information with us.
@inland sphinx How would you suggest I go about obtaining proof? It's unlikely that @knotty vapor will show us their models and textures maybe I could get one of you <@&105621371547045888> to help me out with this task?
vast stump
I'd wager its due to you not being representative of anyone who is involved with said models, perhaps you are just his competitor trying to mess with his stuff. Perhaps you are just a concerned citizen. Anyway if you suspect they are not legit you can report them to the author you think they belong to and possibly BI legal/monetization.
knotty vapor
I'd wager this KevenClark guy is either a content leech who was refused use of our licenced content or some imposter who no one cares about.
That being said we do not sell models we offer a service to our members who wish to support our server by offering custom skins creation on our own or permission given content. I am in no way obliged or willing to show you private emails, posts or PM's between myself, my members or 3rd party supporters. However this has come up before and BIS have requested to see the agreements we have with about 5/50 3rd party content creators and they have been provided hence why after 13 years we are still on the list.
Why ever your trying to drag myself and my dwindling player base down some rocky path is baffling to me but hey ho
silver juniper
Came across this mod, does anyone know if it's legit with those voiceovers? I feel like that is fairly unlikely.
cold harbor
@knotty vapor @vast stump I am not a competitor nor am I a "content leech" I simply noticed that your models are ripped from other games and decided to join this Discord and ask you about them but I don't know why you are asking about me, I'm not the one stealing content.
Still on the list after 13 years? I wasn't aware ArmA 3 had been around that long. Or perhaps you're still on the list because every time someone like me comes alone you all just shout them down like you're doing now.
And I wouldn't say I'm dragging you down the rocky path, I'm just pointing out the footsteps you have taken down that path yourself.
turbid meadow
Wehrmacht using sound samples from Day of Infamy,
US side with DOI samples as well,
Red Army using sounds from Red Orchestra2
@silver juniper , I dunno if those games are offering up their sounds for free use or something like that but I doubt it
shell scaffold
knotty vapor
@cold harbor So your a Drama llama with zero facts and still not bothering to report this apparent non evidenced bases violation to BIS. I have not shouted you down your just full of zero facts and zero skills to prove your accusations.
And as you love to point out things that have nothing todo with you i have been modding for bis games for 13 years
shell scaffold
NWI (Creator of Insurgency and Day of Infamy) say ```
License Grant. Subject to the terms of this Agreement, New World grants you a limited, royalty-free, non-exclusive worldwide license to make non-commercial use of the following:
Any tools that New World may provide, from time to time, for the purpose of creating Mods (the βNew World Toolsβ); and
The art assets, sound effects, music, and other content included in the Games, excluding any software code (the βNew World Contentβ) (together, the Games, the New World Tools, and the New World Content will be referred to as the βGame Contentβ).
Limitations. The above license is subject to the following limitations:
This license only allows for you to design, develop, test, and produce non-commercial Mods (i) for the Games, and (ii) for non-NWI games (such as Garry's Mod). However, if youβre using the New World Content in a Mod for a non-NWI game, you must release that Mod under the NWI No Derivatives Public License (described below).
Remember, only non-commercial Mods - If you charge money (or take anything else of value, including virtual goods with real-world value) for your Mods or anything related to your Mods (such as charging for the use of servers running your Mods), or sell any virtual currency or virtual items in connection with your Mods and the Games, this is strictly prohibited and is a violation of this license;```
strange shadow
pretty nice of them
shell scaffold
Yeah it's definitely nice of them to let people do that
turbid meadow
So if I'm reading that legal english correctly you can use the stuff as long as you dont monetise it?
shell scaffold
Basically
turbid meadow
Huh thats nice of them
shell scaffold
I am confused by RO2's license, so I can't exactly make a conclusion from it but if anyone can abstract it for us this is it https://store.steampowered.com/eula/eula_104320
cold harbor
@knotty vapor I was actually hoping you would do the right thing and remove all your stolen content and we wouldn't have to waste everyone's time by digging through all of your content to find proof and then waste BIS's time investigating you.
Really anyone with two eyes can see that the fire truck from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ke2_41XS-I
is the same as the one from Driver: San Francisco https://www.igcd.net/vehicle.php?id=37764
shell scaffold
People have already said 1000 times over ```
If you believe a NON_MONETISED server/owner is using ripped assets, contact the original IP rights holder and inform them of the issue.
If you believe a BI MONETISED server/owner, is using ripped assets, contact the BI Monetisation team and inform them of the issue.
If you believe EITHER server/owner, is using ripped assets, and has a presence on HERE or the BI FORUMS, contact the FORUM/DISCORD Moderators and inform them of the issue. ```
cold harbor
@shell scaffold As I just said I'm hoping @knotty vapor will remove the stolen content and save us all our time
turbid meadow
So do you have any concrete proof that he's using stolen content? @cold harbor
cold harbor
@turbid meadow watch the yt video and look at the link I posted and tell me that's not the same model? Yes it's not concrete proof but all you need to do compare textures from Driver: San Francisco to CL3 and there's your proof
turbid meadow
As you said yourself thats not concrete proof
So do you have anything else or is that everything?
cold harbor
@turbid meadow So as long as no one can prove proof on the spot that means it's okay to steal models? Is that what you're saying?
turbid meadow
Thats not what I'm saying, I'm that you wont get far by accusing people of things without having real evidence that they did that thing
vast stump
problem is that while it looks very similar the pictures are not good enough to judge that they are the same.
More over they both are modeled after the same real life vehicle? If so they would likely look the same from afar.
So currently there really isnt much to on. It could be straigh ripped model, it could be bought ripped model which both would be very no-no to use, but it also could be legit at this point.
the texture job on the model in the video is not especially great so Im not sure if such would have passed on a commercial game even some years back
it does look very similar but from pictures alone it is hard to judge
cold harbor
@vast stump The fire truck is not modeled after a real life truck it's a completely fictional fire truck made for Driver: San Francisco
vast stump
Then it could lead more towards the ripped part sure. But basically if you accuse someone, you would need to bring this information straight to the table from the beginning.
your current method makes you look like a troll
@knotty vapor you might want to revise where the model came to you too
inland sphinx
@cold harbor everyone can come around and make false accusations.
Noone will believe you until you can show proof. And you saying that CityLife has to show proof that their content is ripped? wtf?
As you have been told, get proof (if its really stolen it will be easy) and send it to BI. No we cannot help you with that.
Really anyone with two eyes can see that the fire truck from this video
So send it to BI then. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here. Send it to the people being responsible for it.
it's a completely fictional fire truck made for Driver: San Francisco
Maybe it was modeled after that one truck? but still self made? Not enough proof to say.
But if you think that's enough, then send it to BI and let them crosscheck it.
knotty vapor
You keep saying its stolen when its not go away and gets some facts
as for the fire truck i just spoke to the guy who gave it to use years ago and he did infact model and skin it from driver as he liked the look of the truck
more over again i would ask what your goal is with your targeting what do you hope to achieve other then to be a troll
he also said its not a fictional truck
https://www.spartanerv.com/uploadedImages/Recent_Deliveries/213040-01_-_San_Francisco/213040-01_San Francisco_driver rear.jpg
shell scaffold
@cold harbor So you don't miss it
knotty vapor
what more funny is we have zero players on Arma3 for some week lol yet he decides to target us
anyway off fishing today so toodaloo
vast stump
From that description it is possible his technique to "model and skin" it was to copy the model and textures instead of making his own, which would be very bad thing for you.
knotty vapor
Mr goat i watched him make it well some of it but again this Kevin guy is out for blood from a rock that is dripped dry.
All our content we have permission from original creators if Ubisoft dose not like that a NPO used there visuals to make a model based off there work its down to them to contact myself and ill pass on the info to the guy who gave it to me. And if we all went down that road every mod out there that has used the likeness of a real world object/building/vehicle/radio or even a toothbrush would be infringing on the original IP owners work.
But other then that i'm not selling models only skins for models that i have permission todo so on.
but off to the pond to catch some wiggly friends
vast stump
Well you must understand that too is pretty much as solid as what you were accused of. We are not talking about a likeness of a real world object but the possibility that you actually have an object in your arsenal that is taken from another game.
Please on your part dont try to play this on humour either. IP theft is serious matter in digital world and should not be taken lightly
You have been around Arma scene for long time but it does not grant you any special treatment.
We are all in the same line in this regard
To summarize if I've understood right, the model is not made by yourself but someone else who is not involved with City Life or anything you do right now.
But you say youve seen him make it from scratch so while it looks a lot like the one in the other game, they are not infact same model and texture.
dark tulip
he could even have bought the model from the guy who created it for Driver... or been made by the same person...
Put I guess the point is, especially when using a lot of custom content, it's important to have a list of permissions available and be open about assets you bought or made yourself
earnest gull
hm reading this got me thinking now ... i was told a while ago that vehicles (including cars , buses and trucks) cannot be enforced by copyrights because well ... for example: an s550 mercedes 2012 will look like the real s550 2012. basically what im trying to say is , just because a person would want an s550 2012 and spends god knows how long making it, they shouldnt be smacked with copyright infringement but at the same time arent protected themselves because they may have mad the model but the S550 still belongs to mercedes because of its logo and name. basically based on what i was told , the way i understand it is that with vehicles its basically a free-for-all unless you make a fictional vehicle. is that true?
dark tulip
There's a huge difference between trademarks, patents and copyright...
vast stump
if you make a model yourself, no one is allowed to just take it and use it
but if you make a model of something thats protected you might not be allowed to use it yourself either
dark tulip
The name "Mercedes S550" is a trademark and how it looks is a patent
earnest gull
ohhh so thats what a patent is .... i thought a patent was rights to sell
dark tulip
however, the 3D model someone makes (including scripts, etc.) are protected under copyright
a patent is an idea (eg. "device which allows telecommunication and has a big touch screen")
^^ actual patent by Apple for the iPhone
earnest gull
ohhhh okay
dark tulip
however, common objects can not be patented; eg. I can't own the right of a car... I could own the right of "an electric car which generates power through wind energy"
vast stump
car manufacturers can trademark the name
and in some cases they have also protected the designs
or parts of design that make their cars unique
applies to other industries as well
dark tulip
trademark = name and/or logo
patent = (unique) idea
copyright = written text/code
earnest gull
i heard ford are pretty big hardasses on games having their vehicles
willow crane
the way i understand it is that with vehicles its basically a free-for-all unless you make a fictional vehicle. is that true
Yes and no. It gets complicated very quickly.
There are some instances where the likeness of a vehicle is copyrighted and a trademarked. IE the shape of the vehicle is used as a logo. And that logo made a registered trademark.
There is case law under fair use rulings that you may make artistic representations of anything providing that you do not:
- use someone else Trademarks
- your artistic representation does not demean, diminish, slander or otherwise unfairly damage the Copyright holdersβ brand or presence in the market place.
- Compete in the same commercial market as the product you are representing.
If you are say creating a Mercedes S550 for example. Straight away the name and numbers are trademarked. The Mercedes badge is trademarked.
vast stump
copyright also applies to 3D models, graphics etc
dark tulip
digital stuff is always written text, even when it only contains 0's and 1's π
willow crane
Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Land Rover and AM General have all taken legal action about this in games
earnest gull
what if its lets say ..... a united states coast guard jayhawk ? or the cutter? for example
dark tulip
that it usually due to trademarks (so not allowed to use their name and logo)
willow crane
US Military designations cannot be used as trademarks. That was decided in the US courts. However the Manufacturer's names and brand designations are legally protected
dark tulip
the Jayhawk is trademarked by Sikorsky π
however the designation (MH-60) and nickname (Jayhawk) are given by the USCG, so free to use
of course there are things which are not allowed to be used/modelled due to security reasons, but that's something else
willow crane
bit of a contradiction in those last two statments.
dark tulip
how so?
willow crane
the Jayhawk is trademarked by Sikorsky```` and however the designation (MH-60) and nickname (Jayhawk) are given by the USCG, so free to use```
Jayhawk is protected and not protected?
dark tulip
I meant with "Jayhak is trademarked by Sikorsky" that the machine itself belongs to Sikorsky and is not owned by the US...
The names (except for manufacturer) are owned by the US
willow crane
Thanks for the clarification. π
Just to illustrate the point about Names and Designations - These are all Trademarks owned by Sikorsky. https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/sikorsky-aircraft-corporation-2466645/
Note: Black Hawk and Commanche MH148
vast stump
Things like this is why Arma does not use real life names.
dark tulip
actually, checking the trademark classification of the Black Hawk, it doesn't include digital usage like in computer games
it does however include print; so it wouldn't be possible to create artwork with that name
willow crane
There are very few trademarks that specifically state Computer or digital use. Atleast until recently. prior to that infractions seem to be taken as unlicensed use and treated as "print or artistic" infractions.
Anyway to answer the orignianl Question. Don't use Manufacturers names and designations and you are ok. Stick with the Government issued ones. Or make your own up.
inland sphinx
i thought a patent was rights to sell
a patent usually means you need to pay the patent owner to use their tech described in the patent.
Anyway to answer the orignianl Question.
Original question said any 3D models made of cars are free to use and unprotected because cars themselves cannot be protected.
Even if you remove designations and change the name, you still violate the copyright. You cannot just take someone elses model.
All Credits are for the TFAR Dev Team and all the Collabs!. I just reupload the Mod on Workshop (Version 1.0.325)
I'd wager this guy would actually have not done that, if we had a warning in Publisher that said that reuploading other peoples mods is not allowed.
He clearly doesn't know hes doing wrong.
strange shadow
has been the case with pretty much everyone who uploaded copies of one of my maps
dull spear
anything can be down about repeated false dmca claims? (same item, same person, declined be valve already)
dark tulip
contact person?
vast stump
Grounds for civil lawsuit probably
dull spear
@old jay are people making repeated false dmca claims tolerated on this discord and BIF?
old jay
If you have names and examples, DM me. @dull spear
dull spear
will do once we have the response on the 2nd dmca from valve
cursive sedge
looks like Yura_Esin's YuEmod
@zealous ore I guess you might be in contact with him?
zealous ore
@cursive sedge why would i be?
old jay
YuEmod was banned from Arma
old jay
Arma, not Steam. The user has been banned as well. @shell scaffold
shell scaffold
Oh I was confused by you saying his mod was banned, sorry
spark raven
Why does this mod banned? Author was russian and my fellow comarades from russia said he was "garbage not a modder" but mods seems to have very nice quality and not ripped i think
inland sphinx
illegal monetization, multiple times
spark raven
Oh, so that was true
inland sphinx
I mean.. Just look in the commends on his item
If I have more than 200 patrons at least $ 5 a month, I can continue my work on new things for Arma3
spark raven
Yea... i got copy from a friend of his work from 3 months ago, its banned like VSM? Post screen = ban
inland sphinx
posting content from that mod is not allowed on BIF, so yeah. No screenshots with that mod
spark raven
I mean... author is a banned, but what these poor gorkas did to you π°
I got it, author is gone, but mod could be allowed and considered abandoned
inland sphinx
The mod was illegally monetized. The way this mod was made violated the EULA.
abstract crest
And you should check out the love that someone from the community is giving gorkas in a community mod based on and requiring CUP's gorkas since the last CUPdate @spark raven More to come from that guy... visit CUP's discord to see some of that - link in #channel_invites_list
And yeah... back now... damned flu had me laid out for the last week π
leaden sandal
Anyone know who the owner of a3 project life is? Someone is using and posing as tht brand pretending to be owner of it and thought id report it to the owner
vast stump
There really isn't proper owner to it is my guess. I think it started somewhat opesource and the everyone claimed it to be theirs and pooped all over it.
Or might be so other life thingy I'm thinking of.
topaz surge
Just a random question: is someone taking actions over reuploaded content on the steam workshop? I mean, is a really useful tool to get the mods, if I wouldn't need half an hour to find the official mod at the latest release among all the reuploads from literally anyone...
inland sphinx
A3PL has a owner, dont know who though, my old contacts are not there anymore.
is someone taking actions over reuploaded content on the steam workshop
Dwarden sometimes goes through the reports. But its too much work really
Tell the mod author about it, he might then take care of it. Besides the people who say they don't care about reuploads ofc
topaz surge
Honestly this situation just sucks. Is too easy to just reupload the mod and a lot of work to get the illicit copies down...
If they specifically say that you can reupload, well yes... But a lot of mods that don't permit reupload are getting reuploaded
- peoples reuploading packets of mods when arma has both an html modlist export and steam mod collection...
dark tulip
I just DMCA the hell out of those re-uploads and repacks...
But I can image that some people don't care or gave up the fight a long time ago
inland sphinx
I understand what you mean @topaz surge
Which one is the correct ACE?
Hah jokes on you, none of these is correct even though they are the first results when searching for it.
4 of these actually contain ace. 3 of them over a year out of date.
shell scaffold
The workshop is a total mess with duplicates and steam is also sorting them completely wrong by putting less popular and less download stuff at the top under its relevancy sorting. I don't know what relevancy is based on but it is clearly nonsense.
dense field
yea their sorting methods/algorithm are drunk
quaint geyser
Never possible to find anything there
teal relic
Clearly you are supposed to use Google to search the workshop
strange shadow
also it sucks that almost everyone uploads in wrong category
look for terrains and you find missions thatguess what? take place on a terrain
and if they use vehicles they put it there too
vast laurel
Terrain Vehicles π
dark tulip
Although sometimes it's also hard to select a correct category... If a fitting one even exists.
Especially for community mods, which contain multiple things (reskins, factions, settings, modifications, etc).
vast stump
Do they need a category at all if they are community mods, community knows where it is and others don't really need it so it doesn't need to clutter the search.
dark tulip
It was an example ;)
Although it still fits my issue; factions and reskins...
Is that "Character" and "Equipment"? Or not, since it doesn't add new characters or equipment, only some config entries...
Guess it should only contain "Mod" and nothing else... although then it will be impossible to filter them...
strange shadow
a reskinned equipment of any kind is obviously equipment
wet gate
Wow...I have 147 gbs of workshop stuff on my harddrive for ArmA 3...and then people reupload multiple "mod packs" to their HDs to make stuff simpler? Idiots.
strange shadow
i only have rhsmods, cba, stui and nimitz+f18
dense field
ditch stui and its garbage code and replace it with DUI #makeframeratesgreatagain π€£
dark tulip
or get a $5000 gaming PC π€£
strange shadow
everyone should have a 5k gaming pc
lean plover
for what? minecraft with raytracing? nah, thx...
strange shadow
total new price for my components and peripherals isn't too far from that tbh
turbid meadow
147 gbs
How about 432 GB
lean plover
rolls eyes
https://i.imgur.com/ipQ1b1Z.jpg
turbid meadow
strange shadow
i could add that source files for my own mods are around 1tb and take up about 500gb ssd space :3
turbid meadow
wet gate
You have a drive dedicated to just arma? That's dedication.
old jay
As do I
autumn fable
Raid 1?
lean plover
i have raid 1
wet gate
Lol and I thought I was knee deep in arma with a 1gb photoshop file
I don't have a dedicated drive but I now have 3 with 5 tb total
obsidian verge
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1837602310
I'm learning to do a mod, it's just a test use
I only modified the skin material of one gun, and I will modify more in the future```
"learning/test use" lolContains a "fingolfin" bisign
surreal yacht
If someone has time to verify, that @bms addons looks suspicious to me:
https://github.com/KillahPotatoes/KP-Liberation/issues/705
turbid meadow
@surreal yacht I opened up the file and it definetly has the 9 liner and notepad mod in it
The .pbo files included in the mod have the prefixes
ARD_ ,AU_ ,BDF_ ,bnae_ ,CSW_ ,CW_ ,EB_ ,kka3_ ,qin_ ,rh_ ,tao_ ,tenue and tfa_(airframes)
kka3_ @toxic jolt
unborn ice
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1908666093 Are mods allowed like this? He's using the external part to "hide" the borrowed models from Rising Storm 2: Vietnam. Second alliteration of this mod, first one was already taken down by Steam cause it broke their rules. Still breaks rules by using RS2 models, which are not allowed to by used outside their game.
vast stump
nope not allowed to use assets from other games.
google has strict policies against IP theft too
vast stump
@still zephyr @brave knot @shut axle @fervent sparrow regarding of what you discussed on #arma3_scenario, use of illegal materials may result of you being banned from all BI platforms (forums, discord, etc) and makes you liable for lawsuits from the IP holder if they wish to sue you.
So it is not a joking matter.
still zephyr
@vast stump my apologies. I didn't mean to stir up drama. My point wasn't to encourage illegal use of protected IP, merely point out that there are legal uses of copyrighted material in certain occasions and from an offhand mention in a comment we can't know how it's used - yet, as I am called to the carpet, I can also see how a public forum needs to set a hard line and not allow even the suspicion or appearance of encouraging the much more common illegal practices.
vast stump
Yeah the legit ways are quite limited and most of the time cases like this dont fall into the parameters
it is far safer to use proven free content
inland sphinx
problem is that people often say "fair use" for everything. even if its not even remotely close to fair use.
Grabbing someone elses copyrighted song, to play it to everyone in the mission is certainly not.
In germany you'd have to pay GEMA to be allowed to play music publicly.
brave knot
huh, didn't knew that @vast stump
have there been any cases of lawsuits towards missions creators?
vast stump
That I dont know, but it is possible just as when spreading any pirated/ripped/stolen content
dark tulip
I haven't heard of lawsuits regarding Arma mods/missions, but that's because DMCA's are in place (in combination with EULA's from BI and Valve).
vast stump
Its still the most severe possibility that can happen if the other steps before it are not adhered to. Like the DMCA
still zephyr
@inland sphinx I agree that people sometimes invoke it without understanding it; That said, I'm a huge fair use proponent, and think that other times people are gun shy because they don't understand what is covered under fair use. There are several tests for fair use - reinterpretation of the original material, amount of material used, market impact, etc, etc. I can absolutely see making a mission which meets those tests (albeit the guidelines are purposefully left vague and open to interpretation), or something which is satirical, which has stronger fair use protections. I think my earlier comment in the other thread was more along the lines of 'we don't have enough information to know how this is being used', though I do understand why the discord (and BI) need to draw a hard line about the issue.
To be clear, I'm not encouraging people to violate copyright here - just engaging in the discussion.
old jay
You must also understand that our line is very clear:
For many years this community has been known as the premium addon/mod creating community, people work tirelessly and in great detail to create fantastic addons/mods/missions/campaigns to release for free so that everyone benefits, including Bohemia Interactive. There are a few simple rules in place to provide the respect to these creative people/groups that they deserve:
The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.ο»Ώ
On these forums you must follow this rule, if a person/team post a thread to share an addon/mod using content from someone else without permission and we receive a complaint then the mod thread will be closed until the issue is resolved and the forum member(s) risks being permanently banned from these forums for taking someone's work without permission.
This isn't just limited to re-using content in addons/mods/missions however, it's not acceptable to edit someone's work without permission and then to post screenshots of it on the forums (even if the edited addon/mod is purely for personal use), it's also not acceptable to edit someone's work, or use someone's work in any way that you don't have permission for and then to create videos which you post on these forums, doing any of the above without the permission of the original creators risks a permanent ban, for individuals, for whole mod teams or squads.```This β is not up for discussion.
still zephyr
"...though I do understand why the discord (and BI) need to draw a hard line about the issue."
"...I'm not encouraging people to violate copyright here..."
I believe show understanding and adherence to that.
As this was #other_ip_topics, I thought a discussion about fair use in general would be OK. I'll desist if mods feel that it is violating or in danger of violating the quoted guidelines above.
old jay
I'm a huge fair use proponent (US only)
still zephyr
There are similar guidelines in several other countries, but point taken that Arma / BI / Discord is undoubtedly in places where that doesn't apply. I'll crawl back into my cave now.
vast stump
fair use does apply and is ok here too as far as I know
but people cant just claim fair use every time they take something
the use cases are very limited
still zephyr
(mods correct me if I'm wrong) I'm gathering that in terms of Discord / BI / etc, because Arma is everywhere, fair use doesn't come into play - what might be legal in the US, is illegal when someone in ... Turkey downloads the mod. And so it's better to take a strict approach and not engage at all.
vast stump
sure indeed that is a good point
in the end its the responsibility of the maker of things to adhere to local laws and the EULAs and rules of platforms they work on
old jay
That's why I posted our rules on the matter.
proven cloak
hi am I allowed to retexture default arma sidewalks? I really don't understand all this licenses so figure id askl
inland sphinx
yes
if you don't touch the models
and I think they probably don't have hidden selections, so you can't without touching the models, which means no you can't
quaint geyser
But he can just guess it, right? I mean if someone uploads a sidewalk retexture, without saying how he guessed the textures so precisely, it's allright?
inland sphinx
If you cannot put your textures on the model and display them ingame
why make textures at all
You are talking about UV coordinates, I said nothing about that.
You can just take the original texture and see the layout from that
strange shadow
but
you aren't allowed to redist the p3ds with altered textures, you can't add new rvmaats
old jay
Which is why the simple answer is "no"
quaint geyser
Yes ok, I wasn't aware that texture is tied so deep in the model and can't be swapped
proven cloak
so I can or I cant? I don't understand how the things youre talking about like hidden selections , p3ds , some sort of layouts.etc... im just lookining for a simple yes or no because I want to change the way sidewalk looks π
dark tulip
as explained;
IF the models contains the camo hidden selections, you can easily retexure them, and then it's allowed without any problems.
If the models don't have a camo selection, then it's NOT ALLOWED, because it would require you to modify the models themselves, which is not allowed.
proven cloak
idk what any of that means ... jeez why is it so complicated to just say the words yes or no? im just trying to change a color of tanoas sidewalk!
glacial copper
dull spear
@proven cloak best contact BI IP department
prior to A3 they had no issues with reskins
(actually they tolerated almost everything as long as it was within Arma)
PS: BI and BISim even hired several of the people making modeler converters
inland sphinx
Retextures has always been fine if you don't need to modify the model
But we don't know if you need to modify the sidewalk model to put a different texture onto it. which is why:
jeez why is it so complicated to just say the words yes or no?
dull spear
as said prior to A3 BI had no issue with modifying their data, and putting into Arma mods - as long as you didnt release the sources. and even when this was initially done, it lead them to release the sample packs followed by the ALDP later on
some people just put their own opinion on BI
so best is always to reach out to BI directly if in doubt
and if you can to devs (Joris, oukej, Ivan, etc)
vast stump
Its just that no one in the community can say its ok because its against the EULA (Or am I mistaken?). If one gets OK from BI then thats another matter.
inland sphinx
specific permission by BI stands above eula anyway
But telling people "its usually fine because BI usually doesn't care" is just wrong.
dull spear
they do care, yet more the opposite - they arent stupid after all
everything that benefits the Arma platform is in their interest (and not outside reasonable limits obviously)
people either dont know, or are ignorant, or have a personal agenda when it goes how the series became moddable and how BI supported it
(that said hardly anyone of the original OFP team is left with BI)
old jay
@dull spear is correct. What he fails to mention (but hints at) is that those who enforce the rules, are not given the same flexibility. In the last 18 years, we have never been told to ignore certain things.
rapid escarp
The Tanoa ones?
They woul need to be edited. They have no selections for retexturing.
And retextured terrain objects only work if they are editor-placed anyway. So few such objects have that ability since they are primarily designed to be placed in terrain via the terrain tools, not be spawned in missions
vast stump
Basically anything you normally put on the terrain you can't edit.
winter perch
@proven cloak to answer your question, yes you're allowed to retexture an object, but only if it has support for hiddenSelections. hiddenSelections are essentially a simpler way of retexturing the same object that can be done in config (i.e. changing a texture's path). some objects don't have support for hiddenSelections, because the texture path is hard-coded into the model with Object Builder
the sidewalks have their texture path hard-coded with Object Builder, so in order to edit them, you'd need to make a new model from the sidewalks, which is against Arma's EULA (meaning it would be against terms and agreements, etc), which means you CAN'T retexture the sidewalks
you can check if a model has hiddenSelections with editor commands, such as getObjectTextures or setObjectTexture
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setObjectTexture
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/getObjectTextures
setObjectTexture won't change any texture on the model if the model doesn't have hiddenSelections
another way you can check is with the Config Editor, in 3DEN you can place an object, right click and I believe there's an option to view in config, and you just need to find the hiddenSelectionsTexture entry, if it's empty then the model has no support for it and you can't retexture it, but if there's a texture path in the entry, you can retexture it
so can you retexture models and things? YES, but only if those models have support for it
can you retexture the sidewalks in particular? NO, because the model has no support for it, and in order to add support, you'd be breaking EULA
old jay
@winter perch & @quaint geyser Its why I said:
Which is why the simple answer is "no"```Thank you for the explanation @winter perch
winter perch
which is why I provided an in-depth answer to elaborate
particularly on the aspect of finding out whether or not a model has hiddenSelections, i.e. whether or not it can be retextured
old jay
Yes, but the end of the day, the answer is no. Which has already been explained to death.
strange shadow
hidden textures don't work on map objects anyway. alternating map objects need to be seperate p3ds
so technically the answer is also no
dense field
a) a lot of models from turbosquid etc have licenses that restrict you from putting them in games.
b) find a dev with a good reputation that you trust, generally speaking people that demand payment for modding work are very shady and if its for Life/RP then its basically a given that it will be stolen and sold, cause pretty much no one with a good rep does life/rp work
theirs a extremely small handful of lifeRP servers that aren't built of stolen assets and frameworks etc
dull spear
@proven cloak as said before: contact BI IP department to get a definite answer. in the past BI had no problem with repacking their data into Arma mods. there are tools to change the texture path for binarized p3ds. and you need to rename the resulting p3d as they have to have unique names
seeing all my work appear on communities I didn't give any usage requests for
if this is your attitude, its probably best to move on from arma modding (or do it strictly for yourself or your team/community)
however many people are OK with the negative side effects that may happen, as the positives outweigh the abuses or other bad aspects
and, while you may not believe it, some people even want as many people as possible to use their creative work no matter what (best case stated by a suitable license with a release)
willow crane
seeing all my work appear on communities I didn't give any usage requests for
Thats sadly the reality in this community.
Don't let anyone tell you to move on or tell you to accept theft. Thats what DMCA is for and all the other IP laws.
Some people here are pushing thier own "opensource" agenda. Some have even benefitted from that by taking the work of others and re-rolling either the ideas and concepts we developed and re-releaseing them as their own work claiming that you can't copyright a concept or script etc. Don't buy into it. If you do want to getting into modding find a decent groups and go for it. There are plenty of people here that will help. And many of those people will aslo help you understand the IP situation and how to protect your own work.
I've been doing this since 2002, I've had plenty of people try and make claims on my work. I've never let anyone get away with it.
Knowing your rights, eulas, special tools lots of different ways.
Well if its BI's content being infringe upon, go right ahead and tell BI. But if its yours of someone else's work then its up to the Author to take action.
BI arent responsible for content you make
If you find that your stuff has been stolen, you DMCA it or take action in other ways. But telling BI legal wont change anything. They cant legally do anything about it. Other than perhaps make a note of who the offender is and if it becomes a serious problem they may decide to ban him from the community. But telling the Mods here and letting other know about a thief does mean people do keep an eye on them. You can see that from the repetitive reports or questions in here.
There are good sides to this community too. π
old jay
!purgeban @proven cloak 0d soliciting ripping/stealing/ the content of others on one Discord and "through the use of a fake sob story" attempting to find ways of not getting caught on this one. This is a permanent ban, do not bother with asking for it to be reversed, your true colours have been exposed.
bright brambleBOT
*fires them railguns at @proven cloak* Γ_Γ
dense field
his defence of life servers was a π© π€£
inland sphinx
On the front pretending to want to be wary about rules and stuff. In the back ripping other peoples stuff.. π€¦ββοΈ
@fiery epoch he was ripping your stuff btw.
fiery epoch
Who
inland sphinx
the guy who was just banned
warm spire
RIP
old jay
Its only RIP when its unfortunate. This is not one of those instances.
brave knot
I can't find in the EULAs anything about the solicitation of monetizing arma content
am I looking in the wrong place?
obsidian cypress
I don't think this needs to be in the EULA as it's probably a law, you cannot solicite someone to break the law / do something illegal...
brave knot
Well of course, was just looking on info on what is considered soliciting(the more I say this word the weirder it sounds in my head)
and who is responsible on taking action in case it happened in arma
dark tulip
Arma 3 License: https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/arma3-end-user-license
Arma 3 Mod License (one of several): https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/arma-public-license
and a whole page dedicated to monetization: https://www.bohemia.net/monetization
what is considered soliciting
Everything related to gain more "customers" or "donators", which (when not approved by BI) equals to A) breaking the EULA and B) getting a full angry Community mob with torches and pitchforks after you
brave knot
@dark tulip can I PM you to not spam in here?
lean plover
and what now? is this a guessing game?
@tepid grail
vast stump
While description would be appropriate, Its "Life" and the uploader has multiple VAC bans and latest is very recent one I do have some educated guesses on whats in that "mod"
and its probably an alt account for naughty things
vast stump
indeed
lean plover
couldn't care less then
vast stump
π
tepid grail
@lean plover This is offtopic_ip its common sense. Legit everything in there is stolen not one PBO is unique.
teal relic
lean plover
inland sphinx
thonks for report
would be nice if you could ping some people who'se work is in there
lean plover
@tawny adder
this might be of interest for you.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1915985277
to everyone else, this dude russell has a lot of stuff (re)uploaded. take a look if you like
shell scaffold
https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/20/1621726179568878236/
This is an ip related quesiiom
Who is right here flinty or logisXero(does this violate anything )?
lean plover
as soon as arma 3 and it's tools where part of the project creation, commercial use is prohibited
and if flinty is using the original framework for a derivate, LogistXero might be right, if the original framework was released under BY-NC-ND
if the original framework was really released under that license, the derivate of flinty alone would be a license violation
(ND = no derivates)
wet narwhal
Can't that be said about pretty much every paid addon for exile life epoch or what not?
wet narwhal
Even if they are not put in a pbo but simply put plain code ?
lean plover
to sell the code in plain text (txt) is controversial. you can't tell me that somebody pumps something like a framework out without actually testing it ingame...
old jay
Additionally, the amount of code that is taken from one individual then (attempted to be ) passed on as anothers' is significant
shell scaffold
What about mission files?
dull spear
@lean plover what is controversial? by whom? did BI take people to court for it?
the point is if you are not true to the specifics, you undermine the actual legitimate position
lean plover
ok... somebody sells a mission framework:
the seller can not prove he did not use any BI products in the creation process, BI / Community can not prove the seller did use BI products in the creation process. ergo = controversial to sell a mission framework
lean plover
As i said... Controversial...
strange shadow
someone once asked me to make textures for them
didn't like my price then reported me to mods for trying to sell textures to them
-.-
can sell as many textures i want
haven't sold any cause ppls can't pay what i want for making them but still :3
that was hillarious
vast stump
Comes down to technicalities I suppose. I mean models can be sold with textures and so on, I dunno if code is any different in that regard. If model goes through the Arma Tools pipeline it becomes a .p3d and thats a very simple distinction between the source material and the game file.
Code if put through the pipe doesnt really change format or how it looks I guess, but if you sell the original .txt youve written it in and not one that has gone into pbo and extracted back I dont know if the Arma tools EULA technicalities apply. Of course that is quite difficult to prove.
dull spear
the important distinction is:
- personal opinion
- "community" / "advocate" opinion
- BIF and Arma moderator opinion
- Game EULA
- BI tools license
- BI dev opinion
- BI decision maker opinion
- BI legal department
- practically of enforcement and relevance for BI
as said before BI isnt stupid about this, and they are more than happy to have community making money - as long as it doesnt damage the brand and BI gets a cut
if its too much against BI interests, and enforceable, BI will act upon it
BI does this primarily when their assets get used in non RV engine context.
strange shadow
my only problem with this whole thing is, if you're a programmer you can sell whatever you want
do anything that actually takes time
you can't
cause then it has to go thru the bi tools
strange shadow
a lot of ppls make models and vehicles and stuff and seell them only to groups for use in private
still a breech
dark tulip
scripts and models (non .p3d) are made with non-BI tools, so those are "safe" from any license/EULA, and custom licenses apply. Even when made specifically for Arma/DayZ.
Of course it becomes a grey area when BI tools are used to test them (eg. test if a script actually works, or if a model can be exported to .p3d) or when it uses a scripting language which is only available in Arma/DayZ (eg. sqf).
The moment it's obvious that BI tools are used (model in .p3d format, packed in .pbo, mission files, etc.), it's very simple: BI tools are used and therefor not allowed to be commercial.
Although even then a grey area exists... If I ask someone to make something for money, it's also not allowed... even when I release it for free... Because the person I pay needs to use BI Tools for something he/she sells (= commercial). But this seems to be fine by the community and BI legal department.
dull spear
the important thing is to look into the real world, take things into context, consider BI intentions and considerations, and be aware of the whole IP regime introduced by the big corporations in the 90s and enforcement for the US gov and other big institutions, whereas for the average artists or normal companies, and societies as a whole, different systems, standards, philosophies would be way more beneficial - hence BI is also not blindly and aggressively enforcing. they know what is reasonable and meaningful for their context
lean plover
imo, there should not be any gray, just black and white. either everybody is playing by the same rules, or nobody plays by any rule at all (gmod)
elfin coral
I agree with @lean plover
The fact that we are 6+ years into the current tools licencing with Arma 3 (way more if you count A2), it flabbergasts me that those grey area have not yet been defined into clear black and white by the developer especially after them being continually raised topics even going back to the pre-discord skype group days.
With that being said I also fully understand that anything you make, write or purchase (depending on licence you purchased under) you are free to do what you want with so long as you adhere to any licence that comes with it, while also keeping in mind that a licence does not mean you own an item but that you have a licence to use it in the manner described therein and that items which have no licence means the most restrictive licencing applies.
As soon as you encode them for Arma via Arma 3 Tools/Binarize/ImageToPAA/etc then you cannot monetize that content due to the tools non-monetisation licence being a condition of use and applying to anything produced by them.
That'as my 2 pence, make of it what you will.
strange shadow
my point was just it isn't fair that you can monetize code and servers
do any artistry (which is what takes up the most time by far) you're locked to that
hence our mods being banned from monetizing schemes
dull spear
the grey area is there as it gives BI flexibility - is that so hard to understand?
do we need like their police, obviously not, but thats a separate matter
to have allowed server monetization, in such way, not having stopped it, nor improved it, plus not enforced it properly - especially against the worst offenders, nor have given the actual content creators their own means, this is the root issue
not "clear rules" or "grey area"
inland sphinx
Even a "mod owners are allowed to retrieve money from monetized servers" would improve things.
They get money for my stuff, I get money to!
dull spear
also its completely different discussion what BI decides with their data, their game their tools, and what community content creators care about their work or its abuse by 3rd party. if you mash the issues, you are not helping any cause
as said back then if content creators want to get a real voice, they need to organize, form an "union" and act upon their word, to get attention and a seat at the table
just need to look at the "real world" - not rocket science and proven countless times over the last centuries
strange shadow
yes they are different issues but afaik this channel covers both
and both are valid concerns
wet narwhal
Would this be a violation as well? I guess so if they offer money for simple playing the game with them ?
https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/20/1740008431595211740/
And i have confirmation from one of the people that is actually getting paid for playing with them.
dark tulip
so it's the other way around... they pay YOU for playing, not "you have to pay to play" or "you have to pay to get content"
which is not monetizing (= getting money for something "free"), but paying people for something which is free
is it stupid? I would say yes... Is it against the EULA? no
dense field
Jesus, they must be desperate
inland sphinx
Is it against the EULA? no
Sure? the player is using the game commercially, as he's getting paid for playing
cold dragon
Hmm?
dense field
How much are they paying you, and for what?
dark tulip
At this moment we have open Positions-Jobs for Mission makers(paid job), Commanders(paid job),and Pilots(paid job).
No idea on how much
wet narwhal
Thought something along the lines of 30 euros a month
cold dragon
10 bucks for being a squad/platoon leader. Nothing else
dark tulip
the only thing I'm thinking about is; where does the money come from?
wet narwhal
@dark tulip a comment in the comment section says something bout 70 euro
dense field
that's hilarious π€£ almost as good (bad) as ANZUS dude paying people to only play on his server
cold dragon
checks if aris is on this discord Phew
wet narwhal
Funny thing Is that some old geezer on that group is like: mweuhhahhh I don't care, we should be able to do with the game and their assets whatever we want
cold dragon
Yeah, he's the best example of a boomer I've ever seen. Arrogant, stubborn and with the worst behavior to anyone opposing him I've seen in a while
old jay
the player is using the game commercially, as he's getting paid for playing
I concur.
wet narwhal
Is this something I should mail, given the fact some of the evidence is in this topic?
dense field
Yea, technically both party's are breaking the EULA
old jay
Agreed
cold dragon
Nobody knows for sure though when it comes to the people who lead players in-game
It's a grey area. Cause some say this and others say that
wet narwhal
@cold dragon how can you be not sure after several people say it's not OK?!
lunar oar
It can be deemed gray depending on the circumstances but someone being paid in exchange to play Arma 3, would clearly be commercialising with the use of Arma 3
wet narwhal
Same as the other 2 knuckle heads on bia ww2 community
cold dragon
Other commanders, strangers and some people I know in person
dense field
Legaly speaking i would assume the payee is a willing accessory, the payer is most definitely breaking EULA possibly more than that.
old jay
Well, @cold dragon I'll tell you this, those users will be banned for it if they come here (or the forum) and are identified
cold dragon
I spoke with Dedmen and even he wasn't certain
old jay
They will also have their info (IP address, email address and any other info I can pull off Maltego transforms) forwarded to the legal dept
wet narwhal
@old jay shifty is one of them but he didn't knew it until I told him
old jay
Why am I not surprised.
lunar oar
Shifty appears to have some actual reasonable-ness unlike some
cold dragon
Well it's not exactly a well known EULA so I legit didn't have a clue it exsisted until recently
dense field
@cold dragon I suggest you find a non cancerous unit to play with, if they need to pay people to stick around it must be a pretty toxic environment.
wet narwhal
Mittens and I got banned on their discord π
cold dragon
I'm South African, I'll do a lot of crazy shit for money xD
dark tulip
A3 EULA doesn't mention anything about getting paid to play (in any way), it only states that it's not allowed to sell content (which can be translated to "pay2play").
The Tools EULA does not apply, since it only applies to the tools not the game. And it only forbids to sell content created with the tools, not selling yourself for being active in a community.
And the Server Monetization Rules only applies to servers which require payments for playing on the server or locking items being a paywall, not getting paid for playing on a server or fulfilling a role.
But I'm sure the legal team of BI can take a look at it.
lunar oar
There was a respectful discussion which summed it up, to check in the A3 discord and so on. Ended same night, today a couple of their users sparked it up again with hosility π
cold dragon
Even if it means licking the ass of a greek boomer, no offense to other boomers
inland sphinx
it only states that it's not allowed to sell content
no it doesn't
dense field
Come to Vietnam and be an ESL teacher like the rest of you citizens π€£ half the teachers i work with are from SA
dark tulip
You are entitled to use the Program for your own use, but you are not entitled to:
- Sell or transfer reproductions of the Program to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Program to others
- Publish and/or distribute the computer Program or any of its parts
- Exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose including, but not limited to, use at a cybercafe, computer gaming centre, computer aided training center or any other location-based site where multiple users may access the Program
inland sphinx
https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/arma3-end-user-license
but you are not entitled to:
Exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose including, but not limited to ...
exploit for commercial use, says nothing about making content. and also applies for getting paid to use it
cold dragon
I'm actually tempted to give that a shot, but I'm not good at teaching
lunar oar
https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/arma3-end-user-license
everyone beat me to it
inland sphinx
The "making content" part is only in Arma 3 tools eula
dark tulip
but that means that any content creator who gets paid for making content is breaking EULA... even when that content gets released for free...
cold dragon
Oh, not Eden Editor?
inland sphinx
making arma specific content, yes.
Unless you are excempt because you are monetization approved or making a DLC
cold dragon
Makes sense
inland sphinx
But easy to get around that, pay people to make models and textures. But let them import it into the game as a unpaid extra.
so on the content creation side that's usually not a problem.
As long as the final result itself is not sold
cold dragon
So if I were paid as a staff member to make missions for a unit that's monitization approved it's all good?
dark tulip
although a lot of milsim units are therefor breaking the EULA...
- members get "paid" in ranks for being active
- only higher ranked people may fulfil specific roles
Seems a bit extreme... not?
wet narwhal
I actually wanna see their server being shutdown and being banned from Arma, those staff members where cancerous to me and Mittens
cold dragon
Both statements I agree with
dark tulip
^so this is a personal quest to get rid of them...
lunar oar
No need to have a grudge, if EULA is being broken it'll catch up
cold dragon
From multiple people, it seems
dark tulip
tbf... if you don't like a server/community, then play somewhere else... no need to report them for something it isn't is...
wet narwhal
@dark tulip not really, we found it and my intention was to eventually report them but I wanted to run it past the person who placed the ad. Then other people came in between and it turned into a shit fest
lunar oar
I was quite content with the original discussion, seemed like the suggestion of checking in here had begun to catch on
cold dragon
I'm not defending him in any way, I hate him. But I'm loyal to the cash so I don't actively join in on putting Aris in his place
inland sphinx
for a unit that's monitization approved it's all good?
yes.
- members get "paid" in ranks for being active
Why are you twisting things around? a rank is not "commercial"
cold dragon
I misunderstood the "paid"
inland sphinx
or rather money and other monetary goods.
cold dragon
Ye, I thought he meant money, not a rank or medal or something
dark tulip
Which again applies to server owners getting money/goods, not players getting money/goods
But again that's my POV... I'm sure the legal team can sort this out, because random people on the internet are all legal specialists and all know it better...
cold dragon
xD
Yeah, that's the way I see it too hence why I'm waiting for BiS before I change my mind
lunar oar
This is the discussion channel open to everyone, so randoms pitching in is to be expected
inland sphinx
Which again applies to server owners getting money/goods, not players getting money/goods
EULA applies to every player.
dark tulip
giving an opinion is fine, making up rules not
inland sphinx
It doesn't say anything about differentiating between server owner and players
exactly.
wet narwhal
Who's making up rules here?
cold dragon
It depends on the situation, does it not?
dense field
But I'm loyal to the cash
π»π³ π
cold dragon
xD
I'm the South African merc of Arma, within legal boundries. This case it's nobody really knowing for certain so I'm waiting for BiS to say what is what
dark tulip
Exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose
^^ this means getting money for being able to play the game in a commercial (= business) way. Not a private person getting rewarded for being active.
cold dragon
"Profit oriented" is a keyphrase too
inland sphinx
in a commercial (= business) way
where did you read that from? it doesn't state that anywhere there
cold dragon
Dictionary and interpretation
inland sphinx
a private person can also use something for commercial gain
wet narwhal
A Eula applies to every individual or entity buying the game?
Doesn't matter if it's a company or not
inland sphinx
people could pay me (a private person) to help debug issues on their life server.
That would be commercial use. Because they are "rewarding me" for helping them
doesn't matter if you name it "reward" or "payment".. same thing
wet narwhal
Shifty, that was my point ^
inland sphinx
so a "private person getting rewarded" is the same as "a business getting paid"
wet narwhal
And that ^
inland sphinx
If you want to name it that way you could say life server owners are "getting rewarded" for giving their members exclusive ingame items
dark tulip
... and now you are using ridiculous "examples"
cold dragon
I dunno man. I'm waiting for BiS
inland sphinx
I apparently have to if you cannot see that without it
Its BI btw, BIS is another company
chrome plinth
there is no BIS, there is only BISIM and BI
cold dragon
Snow kept saying BiS so I went with it, sorry
chrome plinth
BIS ceased to exist when BI was formed
wintry yoke
Boi shifty what you been up to now :P
old jay
Well the rules have been laid out as clearly and explicitly as possible, still people don't seem to comprehend. Now Dwarden has been disturbed. This normally doesn't end well.
boreal nymph
Pay them ingame with tactical bacon, problem solved
wet narwhal
Oh oeps, sorry
old jay
Its not up to you to agree
wintry yoke
They don't have to agree if it's a legal case
old jay
Whether you agree with it (or not) is irrelevant.
bright brambleBOT
Silence!! Γ²_Γ³
...
I keel u, @cold dragon!! Γ_Γ
wintry yoke
???
inland sphinx
what?
wintry yoke
I just saw a lot of text collapsing
old jay
I can only take so much "but I didn't know (even though everybody has pointed out the rules multiple times)"
inland sphinx
Shifty is the guy who reported the others for probably violating the EULA btw.
he knows the rules
old jay
Apparently not
dull spear
Exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose
as usually you should ask BI legal for clarification. non expert legal judgement is always risky
you dont want to ban all all those people having ads on their YT videos, do you?
or having ads on their website with Arma content?
grim mountain
This guy
Has aaaaall the things
Think they might be Chinese
maybe they're tinkering with language files or.. something?
Because.. just why?
strange shadow
sent a ton of dmca to chinese reups
old jay
Try again @woeful rose but without the profanity, #looking_for_game
brave knot
shouldn't it be in #ip_rights_violations
old jay
Dont know, search flagged up profanity so, no matter what it was, it was removed.
Could have been the cure for cancer for all I know
woeful rose
Didn't realize you couldn't swear on a discord for a game rated M and contains swearing in it. Sorry
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1866145846 this was my link, probably contains a lot of reuploaded mods since it sits at 17.1GBs download size, and it's a life server modpack
wintry yoke
@woeful rose can you tell us the mods residing inside this pack?
north cypress
Have a question regarding IP and permissions. If I created a website for someone for free, with no contract/agreement, do I hold the right to withdraw usage permission as and when I please?
Also @brave knot I also had the displeasure of dealing with Aris. I was web developer #2 haha
wintry yoke
if there's no contract involved, I think (might be completely incorrect) you never forfeited the rights. It's still your property
brave knot
well if you made it with no contract the website is technicaly yours
north cypress
Alright no problem. So if theyβre using without permission they would technically be in breach of the Copyright act correct?
wintry yoke
However, I think it'll be a rather difficult task to get the files off the website host
inland sphinx
That life pack up there is already on my list, didn't get to it yet
If I created a website for someone for free, with no contract/agreement, do I hold the right to withdraw usage permission as and when I please?
yes
Oh wait. For someone else?.. Technically its your copyright yeah
brave knot
you should have full access to it and be able to block it off from them
north cypress
Alright. So obviously I must send them an official email requesting they delete/take down my content. What would the next step be?
brave knot
cease and desist sounds cooler
inland sphinx
If they/the hoster don't follow your DMCA request.. Next step is sueing them into the ground
north cypress
Is DMCA a thing in the Uk? I always thought that was a US thing
inland sphinx
china too, atleast I heard their government takes it serious
north cypress
Alright. Well Iβll get a DMCA sorted with the host. Letβs hope that solves it
wintry yoke
that greek house of cards collapsing?
north cypress
Na this is unrelated to that Aris bloke. I was finished with him the moment he said I was the biggest idiot heβs met because I didnβt make a website to be compatible with IE6. Go figure
wintry yoke
why didn't he do it himself then?
brave knot
ask and you'll get kicked
north cypress
^^
He went through two web devs in 1 month
Because he never mentioned he needed it compatible with an ancient browser
wintry yoke
how's that group even sustaining itself with all the shady shit they've been doing going public now
north cypress
Honestly no clue. That Aris bloke is as dodgy as they get
brave knot
πΈ πΈ
Quoting the guy
"BI should praise me, Im paying to keep the community alive"
north cypress
Because there are people who will accept money to not say a word against him
wintry yoke
Is he not aware that the vast majority of the community has never heard of him?
brave knot
which Is why I hope BI reads my email
thats where you're wrong
its him the one who's never heard of the vast majority of the community
lean plover
i'll make his website, compatible with netscape communicator 1999 if he likes. for #350 up front and another when done π
wintry yoke
ah, so the quote is closer to "BI should praise me, Im paying to keep MY community alive"?
you and your cursed #350
lean plover
dreefiddy!!
north cypress
Even the 500 I was being paid was no where near enough
wintry yoke
$500 for the website?
north cypress
Iβd be charging 1k as an inconvenience charge