#other_ip_topics | ARMA | Page 15

high wasp Mar 18, 2019, 5:36 PM

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Well, most bigger/structured units do

faint plover Mar 18, 2019, 5:36 PM

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Yeah rotary is my specialty .. i rule the sky .. even on life servers im always part of an aviation unit

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Mh-60 has her own callsign “big bitch” aha i love that helo

buoyant mountain Mar 18, 2019, 11:34 PM

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Out of interest, If a community aka MilSim group wants to use certain assets from a mod for private distribution, does the group need author permission to upload a steam version of the mods

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I noticed recently United Operations uploaded their modpack to steam and was full of different mods. Their is a few small quality of life things in a few mods which would be great to have but we cant ask our members to download the full mods due to our shit internet connections and bandwidth (Australia....)

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Also please forgive my lack of knowledge this matter

obsidian cypress Mar 18, 2019, 11:37 PM

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Steam forbids uploading stuff that isn't your own on their platform ~~(unless you have the authorization to upload on behalf of the author(s), ...)~~

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Then you have licenses wich differs from mod to mod so you may also need to pay attention to what's written in there.

buoyant mountain Mar 18, 2019, 11:42 PM

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Right ok, thank you for clearing that up. So would the bets course of action be to contact the devs and explain our situation and ask them for permission/a license to use a certain asset?

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Like for instance a C-17 from USAF?

obsidian cypress Mar 18, 2019, 11:51 PM

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Well Steam stills forbids it so you would have to go through something else like A3Snyc or something and then it's matter of licence. Some allow uploading on platforms other than Steam without limitation, some don't but yeah, just ask the permission to the author.

buoyant mountain Mar 18, 2019, 11:53 PM

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We have our own custom mod installer program we built so it'd be distributed that way. Alright ill start contacting them cheers! ❤

patent copper Mar 19, 2019, 12:04 AM

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@obsidian cypress The steam user agreement also requires you to be the or a creator of the content that's being uploaded

obsidian cypress Mar 19, 2019, 12:10 AM

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Oh yes sorry, misread the sentence 😓

buoyant mountain Mar 19, 2019, 2:18 AM

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Cheers for the assistance @obsidian cypress and @patent copper. Legends!

inland sphinx Mar 19, 2019, 8:01 AM

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If you have your own custom mod installer anyway, why do you ask about uploading to steam then?
99% of mod authors don't have problems with private redistribution, so your private arma3sync or other mod repository is usually fine.

Steam disallows uploading anything you didn't make, even if you had permission. So trying to go for Steam is just a giant chore.

pine storm Mar 19, 2019, 8:49 AM

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I wouldn't say A3PL is clean. Their owners are still the people who made Arma 3 Life which started this monetization shit.

They did all their shady illegal shit on A3L then took all the money they made($100k+) and went and made A3PL where they buy assets and pay devs.

I still think the only "clean" Life server is City Life.

faint plover Mar 19, 2019, 1:23 PM

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Lul nah i proved that shit shit in my doc a while ago... they legit steal money from young kids , plain and simple nd i agree communities doing shady shit like that is prob reason ots soo strickt with Bi and their custom content policies , life servers pretty much brought it on themselves

old jay Mar 19, 2019, 6:04 PM

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Roma, less Sht and sht please.

faint plover Mar 19, 2019, 7:12 PM

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@old jay sry since i was a kid i grew up on a fihing boat ... i type exactly how i speak and i cant help but say alot of words that honestly is just part of my everyday vocabulary , didnt mean to come off as toxic or salty whatso ever

old jay Mar 19, 2019, 7:26 PM

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I "grew up" in the Navy. I know when and where my colourful vocabulary is appropriate and where it isn't.

faint plover Mar 19, 2019, 10:08 PM

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ok well as i said, ive been on boats and hearing those words since i was litterly 4-5 yrs old ... i was brought up and raised around that sort of lifestyle so for me to curse, comes first nature and its simply something i cant help doing. as ive said appoligies and ill try to limit and be careful of how i word my statements from now on 😃

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 2:15 PM

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Love the logic of when a community Take others ppl content and then feature “protected by dmca” on their website ... 10/10 logic 😂

fiery egret Mar 20, 2019, 2:19 PM

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They just misspelled "taken down by dmca" ¯_(ツ)_/¯

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 2:26 PM

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Wht u mean?

fiery egret Mar 20, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Just a joke, nevermind.

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 2:31 PM

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Yeh its too early for my brain to process humor lol

wintry yoke Mar 20, 2019, 3:03 PM

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Well, it's a DMCA takedown request, not just a "DMCA" as that simply stands for Digital Millennium Copyright Act

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We just say DMCA'd the same way we get ArmA'd

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 4:06 PM

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I get Arma’d every time i turn on arma 3 tools 😥

obsidian verge Mar 20, 2019, 4:06 PM

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Somehow all the turkish groups like my interrogation mod 😂
https://i.imgur.com/mroHPyq.png
https://i.imgur.com/lJsxD0K.png
time to fill some DCMA`s

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 4:08 PM

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Wait wut ? I can just scan them? How?! ... im sitting here like a dingdong downloading all these mods and digging through everything ...

fiery egret Mar 20, 2019, 4:09 PM

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I guess it's this: https://beta.workshopcrawler.com/

patent copper Mar 20, 2019, 6:31 PM

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@faint plover how have you not gone insane yet?

inland sphinx Mar 20, 2019, 6:34 PM

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I'm literally going insane right now

wintry yoke Mar 20, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Yea, but you're Dedmen. Comes with the job 😉

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 6:38 PM

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@patent copper idk i mean i have nothing else better to do aha ... but my poor pc is another story .. over 2tb of memory all full ..😂

bright tide Mar 20, 2019, 6:43 PM

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2tb of stolen mods?

inland sphinx Mar 20, 2019, 6:45 PM

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there is more than more than more than more than enough stolen stuff everywhere

bright tide Mar 20, 2019, 6:45 PM

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You're starting to screw with my brain. What's more than more than more?

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Is it more than more? Or is it more than more than more?

inland sphinx Mar 20, 2019, 6:46 PM

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Both!

bright tide Mar 20, 2019, 6:46 PM

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!!!

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 6:47 PM

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Yeah theres ALOT lol

inland sphinx Mar 20, 2019, 6:47 PM

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I'm juggling between DMCA's and monetization rule violation reports and people on BIF asking the same questions over and over and not following the rules. and people in discord asking the same questions as people on bif. Ahhh my brain

old jay Mar 20, 2019, 6:49 PM

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🔨

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Worst if all is alot of these mods , the “developers” include the entire source and pbos are wide open .. yikes no wonder ppl steal mods left and right copy/paste is alot easier than learning c++ lmao

obsidian verge Mar 20, 2019, 6:51 PM

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What you mean with "source", pretty sure that no one put their Blender/3ds file into their workshop upload

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bin`s can be reverted back to cpp with the arma tools

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 6:54 PM

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Like as in config of said model , scripts , the p3ds litterly some modpacks i can just drag and drop

inland sphinx Mar 20, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Well..

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I can also just steal someones bike on the street. Or break into someones home.
I still don't do it though.

bright tide Mar 20, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Well..

inland sphinx Mar 20, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Just because you can steal stuff, doesn't explain why people steal stuff.

faint plover Mar 20, 2019, 7:05 PM

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Thats not what i mean. I mean that its insanely easy for ppl to do. I simply download all the mod packs i see to findout if theres anything they reuploading didnt know theres an actual scanner nd im dumb enough to sit there and download all that stuff just to check if nything is stolen. But yeah is does explain why , because its sooo insanly easy to do , why would someone want to pay god who knows how much money for development , when all they gotta do is download a workshop mod ... really hope if arma 4 ever releases ,that BI finds a better way to prevent these things

patent copper Mar 20, 2019, 9:23 PM

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its not much different with many other games that have a mod integration, i think whats in the interest of most minds in this community is not locking down every mod but rather having ways to actually moderate platforms like the workshop, do more to prevent people accidently reuploading and such

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:30 AM

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@sweet patio
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1623777407

sweet patio Mar 21, 2019, 10:33 AM

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yeah saw the comment, i have not yet verified if the content is gone

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it is funny because i added that to the DUI workshop page

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:35 AM

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He also reuploaded the Stargate Mod, which ive forwarded already to the dev

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:40 AM

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@sweet patio according to the workshop crawler, the diwako_dui_main.pbo is still present (alongside the radar component)

sweet patio Mar 21, 2019, 10:40 AM

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probably not updated yet

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:41 AM

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Last update is ~5 hours ago

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with no changelog

sweet patio Mar 21, 2019, 10:41 AM

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i mean the workshop crawler cache

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:42 AM

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ah, fair enough

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:42 AM

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full list
https://pastebin.com/avCPMgvw

inland sphinx Mar 21, 2019, 10:42 AM

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@wintry yoke crawler tells you on top of the html export when it last updated

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:46 AM

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lots more stuff in there that he probably didn't get permission for

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especially as enhanced movement etc are not allowed to be reuploaded

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I doubt the Winter mod is either

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:49 AM

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https://units.arma3.com/unit/74thlegionstarsim
Is the unit which uses the modpacks

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:50 AM

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that 3 mile-long mod list argument is so wrong 😂

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:50 AM

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4 At least

fiery egret Mar 21, 2019, 10:51 AM

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You should make a list of popular mods/mod owners that don't agree on their content being reuploaded and have the crawler automatically report to them or to some discord channel whenever it finds a new reupload while scanning

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:52 AM

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I think that might be a very depressing thing for the mod authors to have 😂 It's basically a constant reminder "People have zero respect for what I do"

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:53 AM

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Message received -> Message received -> Message received -> Message received -> Message received -> Message received -> Message received -> Message received -> Message received ->

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:53 AM

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Email spam at some point

fiery egret Mar 21, 2019, 10:53 AM

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But isn't it what already is happening in #ip_rights_violations but manually?

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:54 AM

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Ah yea that's true though

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:54 AM

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1508240543
Mod list

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:54 AM

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But has a more personal touch 😉

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Wow that's not a long modpack by far

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:54 AM

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Close to 30cm

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:54 AM

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20 long? Cry some more

fiery egret Mar 21, 2019, 10:55 AM

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I'm just throwing ideas on how to do all of this more efficiently ¯_(ツ)_/¯

wintry yoke Mar 21, 2019, 10:55 AM

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I mean it's not a bad idea

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 10:55 AM

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Sadly u cant access the ugc via steam API directly

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Else ive would added it already to my discord bot

fiery egret Mar 21, 2019, 10:57 AM

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Also I'd be willing to help in case python and/or discord bots are involved 😉

lean plover Mar 21, 2019, 11:05 AM

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This might be of interest for @patent copper

obsidian verge Mar 21, 2019, 11:07 AM

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That spamming xD

drifting tusk Mar 23, 2019, 12:57 PM

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This is continuation from #ip_rights_violations

Thanks for the opportunity PuFu.

Ok, Semantics etc. first.
I used explicit in the merriam-webster dictionary definition 1a, as in expressing something without ambiguity.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/explicit
What I meant that the author explicitly says that you can upload to steam workshop.

BI - BIS, ok thanks. I trust this did not cause any ambiguity?

do read Steam TOS (i am pretty sure you haven't), maybe you understand why it works the way it is
...
But it is the only one that ask the author of said party content to directly share IP rights with Valve (for limited purposes though) on upload on their platform - again, the only party that actually do that is the author, and no one else

I would argue that the author is giving the uploader the right to give needed rights to Valve. We can assume the original author has seen the TOS since he has upload his first version to workshop. We can therefore assume he knows what rights he is giving the reuploader. As in, right to give the rights to Valve on my behalf. And since there is already a steam version, so valve actually already has the rights.

...

Now the issue of how we verify rights have been given. This is outside the initial discussions scope. Yet I can see the draw here.

-FM-Today at 1:00 PM

If a User chooses to reupload something which violates a platform's ToS, they have proven that they cannot be trusted and thusly do not warrant inclusion into a community who's bedrock principles are trust and consent.

PuFuToday at 2:36 PM
I personally won't believe someone who will say - but i got permission from the author.

So it appears to me that these rather severe consequences are being imposed on people without any sort of burden of proof? I can understand that you protect the work you know the author wants to be protected. But not when there is this blanket ban.

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 1:55 PM

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What I meant that the author explicitly says that you can upload to steam workshop.
how does the author explicitly says you can (re-)upload to SW? because that is important.

author is giving the uploader the right to give needed rights to Valve.
from a legal POV, that doesn't work that way. You cannot give someone else rights overs someone's else property.

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I can understand that you protect the work you know the author wants to be protected. But not when there is this blanket ban.
i do not protect 3rd party work. I only protect my own. That said, if i came by someone's else work, that i know of, i message them in relation to it. What they do further with than information is up to them not to me.

wintry yoke Mar 23, 2019, 2:30 PM

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The proof we have that someone in illegally uploading content and lying is the exact lack of this explicit proof of permission from the original author.

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It's really easy in that way. If the upload cannot provide evidence that the original author has given explicit permission to the Uploader for the content, it's a report for both violation of the original author's IP rights and that of the Steam TOS.

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Steam does not actively remove violations. If instead, it waits for an author to file a DMCA takedown request. Steam is hugely disappointing in that aspect, that it does nothing to actively prohibit these violations

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Nor will it even ban or timeout the uploader's account or access to the workshop

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People reporting mods in #ip_rights_violations level the playing field for the authors. Initially they'd have to find reuploads amongst the thousands if not millions of workshop items. This would take an amount of time the author may not have. Illegal reuploads could therefore easily go unnoticed. However, with some of the community being on the lookout too, such illegal upload is much more likely to be found and, if at à higher rate than illegal uploading, the likelyhood of other illegal uploads to be spotted increases. We just report. Its up to the author to handle the DMCA takedown Hammer.

obsidian verge Mar 23, 2019, 2:53 PM

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1690544704
Contains a TFAR reupload

Mr.sanke:
reuploads of what ??????? it's my server that you have to pick the shit you want me to sink you

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 2:56 PM

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Seen. Waiting for crawler

wintry yoke Mar 23, 2019, 3:30 PM

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Lel blaming you for picking out his server to report 😂

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Retard threat ensued

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 3:58 PM

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Supreme Trolling here. Seldom do you see such an epic display of pedantry. And a very valid attempt to explain by @zealous ore . 👏

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 4:11 PM

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Since everyone has significantly gone out of their way to explain things to you (multiple times) @drifting tusk and yet you still attempt to ignore the obvious and oft stated fact of you can't, I too must come to the conclusion that you are trolling. Continued trolling will be dealt with accordingly.

drifting tusk Mar 23, 2019, 4:13 PM

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Ok then. You do what you must.

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But I would like to point out that I am not trolling, I just disagree how you guys look at dealing with reuploading mods with permissions.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 4:15 PM

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THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED!! Why can you not understand that?!

drifting tusk Mar 23, 2019, 4:15 PM

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Yes. I understand.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 4:16 PM

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"I just disagree how you guys look at dealing with reuploading mods with permissions." <<<--- THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED!!

This is why you are trolling.

wintry yoke Mar 23, 2019, 4:53 PM

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Have you considered that these are facts/laws/legal rules and not merely opinions?

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@Bummeri#2574

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Oh he gone?

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 4:57 PM

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he gone

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 4:58 PM

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Very professional

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 4:58 PM

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Troll trolled himself right out of the "see ya" door.

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 4:59 PM

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By saying "I understand." and shutting up? Interesting.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:00 PM

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There is legit debate, then there is complete ignorance and contradiction of the facts and his own personal statements.

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:01 PM

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One can have opinions and can be wrong. If you don't want to bother with him, tell him to leave it, I don't see a reason for a ban. But this Discord is 90% not worth reading, so who cares.

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:01 PM

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There was enough of an explantion in teh ip reporting channel to explain. Pufu went a long way out of his way to explain and he still wouldnt accept it

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:02 PM

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One doesn't have to accept it, if you want him to shut up, tell him to shut up. It's like this place wants to have people strictly agreeing or they are just banned.

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That's all, I'll show myself out.

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:04 PM

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Fact vs Opinion. Facts win every time. But yet he argues. Whether i agree or disagree with the mods rules i do have to respect them if i want to stick around

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:04 PM

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Nope, we have discussion channels such as this one for that very reason. The difference is that despite the overwhelming facts presented, he still continued on AFTER being old he was trolling.

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Those that condone prohibited re-uploading, ripping, unauthorised porting are often the ones who tell others about the (practically non-existant) grey areas. Then these false narratives spread to the point that people think it's ok to do so.

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:08 PM

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Don't need to have people tell lies to others just because it's their opinion.
Hurting everyone who believes that crap.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:09 PM

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" I only reuploaded it becasue the mod author didn't"
" I only reuploaded it so that we only have to download one mod"
"I only edited it so that we could have a weapon that was missing"
" I only... "

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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damn, what did i miss?

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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Steam has a method for allowing reuploads if the person reuploaded has been named as a creator / contributor /co-author by th original author/team.

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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how many mods with "permissions" have you seen?

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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He carried on PuFu

wintry yoke Mar 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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The guy treated the TOS and IP laws as our opinions, not as what they really are

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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i for one seen a couple

wintry yoke Mar 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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Namely, the law.

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:11 PM

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like 2

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the entire discourse was a a a bit user vs corporation to begin with

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commies! 😉 *kiiiiiiding

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:12 PM

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I have a mod "with permission" on my workshop.
But it's full fare with the content. I can modify, give to others, open source, use commercially, DMCA reuploads. everything.
Not just permission to reupload. And I'm also contributor on there.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:13 PM

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Key word which is specifically mentioned by Steam is "CONTRIBUTOR".

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:13 PM

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Also permission to reupload is not enough.
YOU as the uploader, need to give steam permission to redistribute,modify,use commercially.
You cannot legally do that just because someone gave you permission to reupload.

tiny shoal Mar 23, 2019, 5:13 PM

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Please, could you remove bummeris ban, he is an admin in our arma finland gaming community and needs arma discord channels. I am sure that he will no longer continue this discussion. Thanks.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:13 PM

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If a modder wants to grant someone permission, make them a contributor.

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I'll consider it Temppa. But, since he's dragged you into this, it may serve you well to have a read of the discussion (to prevent mod takedowns).

tiny shoal Mar 23, 2019, 5:17 PM

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He did not ask me to remove ban, I have followed this conversation in the background for quite some time.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:18 PM

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I mean, he dragged you into it by this:

@Skullfox| Phil Temppa has said to me directly he has no qualm with people reuploading his map and is glad they are getting used in whatever way suits people. People should not DMCA them on his behalf. Source: I just asked him since we are in the same arma community.```

tiny shoal Mar 23, 2019, 5:20 PM

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Yes, he talked with me with steam in morning. I told him at i dont care if someone reupload my terrain in his terrainpack. I know its not right.

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:20 PM

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Its illegal for anyone to DMCA if they are not the author. or authorised by the Author.

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Now if you are fine with him re=uploading it - according to the rules - you need to add him as a contributor to avoid it being flagged as illegal

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:21 PM

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I know its not right. By saying this, you are setting people up for failure.

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:21 PM

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and removed by the admins

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:22 PM

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why add as contributor? why is not enough to have a written text "it's fine to do shit with this", eg. an MIT license? what am I missing here?

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:22 PM

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..and this is the issue bummeris was arguing about.

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@paper nexus Because Steam prohibits it.

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anywhere else is fine (unless otherwise specified).

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:24 PM

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now, i do not agree with the above ^^

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if the license specifies that is fine *or whatever tolerated

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then it is fine

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:25 PM

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Steam Subscriber Agreement section 6D. Which is primarilly about protecting steam from litigation. but it also has benefit of protecting authors from illgitimate re-uploads

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:25 PM

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where does Steam prohibit that? everything in the workshop agreement says you have to respect the author's demands/license, nothing about Valve directly prohibiting anything if the author says it's fine

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:25 PM

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6D ^

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:25 PM

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although it's been some time since I read it in-depth

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:25 PM

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it does say that

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:25 PM

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I was talking about Valve prohibiting reuploads even if author allows it

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because if it does, that's retarded, and I would hate to see custom ACE3 distributions being taken offline because of that silly thing (we explicitly allow it in our license)

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:26 PM

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You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B. above or in any license terms specific to the applicable Workshop-Enabled App or Workshop page. This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:27 PM

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That is the tricky part. which is why FM is telling you/others to add that person that has permission as a contributor. That way its immediately obvious and is covered un the Steam agreement

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no further issue after that

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:27 PM

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add that person that has permission as a contributor.
who the hell has time for that?

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:28 PM

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lmao and there you go...

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who has time to follow the speed limit, who has time to pay taxes.... all come with penalties for failure to comply

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🤦

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:30 PM

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well I am not going to add everyone who wants to reupload their custom version of ACE3 to Workshop as an ACE3 contributor...

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do modifications not count into that?

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:31 PM

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The answer is to state "Dont upoad to the SW, but rather host it somewhere else"

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There are many groups that dont use SW for their custom mods.

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:31 PM

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Im done with this debate. FM explained the rules of the land. Pufu, myself and other have gone into detail to help further. Nothing else we can add. if you disagree then dont use steam.

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:32 PM

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so to be clear, as an ACE3 maintainer where we have clearly stated we allow reuploads and modified uploads, I would have to add everyone who uploads as an ACE3 contributor for them to be sure not to be taken down?

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:32 PM

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"to be sure" yes

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:32 PM

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I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I want clarification, because something of this doesn't make sense

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ok thank you, that's retarded

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:32 PM

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I don't like wearing shoes, but when a restaurant says "no shoes, no service" I put on shoes (or I dont go there (very rare)).

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:33 PM

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restaurants like that deserve to die

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:33 PM

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As it is their business, they can do that, just as Steam can.

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:33 PM

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yes

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 5:33 PM

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LMFAO let the world burn

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oh wow and people wonder why there are rules

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:34 PM

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btw, as i said before, Steam is not the only distribution platform for mods out there

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 5:34 PM

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Exactly

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:35 PM

#

yes, it's still stupid, but thanks for clarifying

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:35 PM

#

tons of things about steam are stupid ^^

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:36 PM

#

agreed, as you know 😛

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:37 PM

#

but going back on the main subject

#

did ACE reuploads got flagged?

#

considering there is a license that states re-uploads are allowed?

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

never heard about that

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

so then i don't see the issue

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

not that I know of

#

but it got me worried seeing it discussed here

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:39 PM

#

People could report it. Then BI would review it.
And if someone reports it as being a ace reupload with a link to the original. and BI sees that the pbo's are indeed reuploads they might block the item

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:39 PM

#

if there is no license, or there is some verbal arrangement between user 20521 and modmaker 12, that is a no go

inland sphinx Mar 23, 2019, 5:39 PM

#

no time to read licenses if you have hundreds of reports. And if it's pretty clearly a reupload

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:40 PM

#

if there is someplace a line of text saying it is ok, no one will bother anymore

#

conclusion - write a damn license / readme text

paper nexus Mar 23, 2019, 5:40 PM

#

well clear no-change reupload is stupid anyways, but it's mostly to overcome the auto-update thing

#

verbal agreement indeed doesn't work, but who talks verbally these days ? XD

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 5:40 PM

#

is it ok in relation with Steam TOS, no it isn't

#

but that is something the original author will have to understand before he writes a blank check

tiny shoal Mar 23, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

I have not given anyone permission to reupload mods. I simply do not have time to monitor and report. Poor English is also one reason.

willow crane Mar 23, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

Then to make life easier for your self - put a comment in the description of your license or original upload that says you allow reuploads to Steam or other services that reassigns rights over your IP.

#

eg: You may upload to Steam Workshop or any other service that reassigns rights over my, <your name> Intellectual Property to 3rd Parties.

old jay Mar 23, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

Feedback regarding todays comments have been forwarded on to BI.

lean plover Mar 23, 2019, 10:52 PM

#

@zealous ore
was there some outcome with the podcast idea about the IP and DMCA stuff?
was reading this with half an eye back then. i was in a rush

zealous ore Mar 23, 2019, 10:52 PM

#

was waiting for a reply from @teal haven & @deft pulsar

teal haven Mar 23, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

Still working on getting things together for it. Life has been busy for Dagger and me. We will get this together as soon as we possibly are able.

deft pulsar Mar 24, 2019, 6:50 AM

#

Yeah personal life is getting in the way. We haven't forgotten you no worries man

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 2:46 PM

#

Just need someone with a general idea of law to jump into Arma and open up a DMCA agency service... Where's all them law school students in Arma? 😄

The DMCA's aren't difficult to fill out, but they're very tedious to do over and over

#

Someone could make a decent amount of pocket change just monitoring the crawler for people and submitting DMCA's as their rep.

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 4:10 PM

#

Hm since it's just keeping the workshop clean and authors happy, I wouldn't ask money for it

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

I mean, expecting someone to proactively do this day-in, day-out, for you, for free, is probably pretty unreasonable. I'm sure there's people willing to do it for free (like you), but I'd be uncomfortable asking people to do that much for me for free tbh

#

I pay for a DMCA service for software I created when I was a freelancer, and while it doesn't get stolen as much as an Arma mod is, the same work applies.

#

beyond that, if you submit a DMCA on someone elses behalf, you can be held legally responsible for it if countersued. You don't have the title of lawyer to protect yourself.

vast stump Mar 25, 2019, 5:40 PM

#

I dont think being a lawyer has nothing to do with it as long as some sort of signed contract is made to grant the permission to submit the DMCA

#

a lawyer would be in same trouble if he submitted DMCAs withouth such contract

fiery peak Mar 25, 2019, 6:37 PM

#

@nightstalker you were the kid that would remind the teacher at the end of class that homework was due, weren't you?

#

@wintry yoke

inland sphinx Mar 25, 2019, 6:37 PM

#

Do we have a problem here?

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 6:48 PM

#

So to clarify something here. If I have a friend reupload my terrain. Who besides me can take it off the workshop because its a duplicate?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM

#

you talk to your friend to take it down
if he's no friend anymore, you can file a DMCA

unreal shore Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM

#

@high wasp Because they wouldn't touch this topic with a ten foot pole lol

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM

#

(this will take it down for you)

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM

#

Who besides me

#

can take it down

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM

#

steam

#

oh wait

#

if it is not your account, only he can take it down.

#

only the party with account access can take it down

mystic locust Mar 25, 2019, 6:54 PM

#

so if WA Lancer doesn't want to take it down, the reupload can and will stay, with no issue?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 6:57 PM

#

not so easy...
to upload a mod to the workshop, you need to have sufficient rights to the content. either by owning the rights to it, or by being a contributor to the project (which sort of makes you a rights holder to some point).
so even IF smb allows a 3rd party to upload his creation, it's still in violation with the steam ToS/EULA

mystic locust Mar 25, 2019, 6:58 PM

#

but it'll stay with no issue until Lancer files a takedown?

inland sphinx Mar 25, 2019, 6:59 PM

#

BI will take it down if it get's reported, as it's violating the steam subscriber agreement.
And steam themselves might also take it down

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 6:59 PM

#

the issue is, that it is a violation. but yes, it will stay until actions (user remove, takedown by steam after DMCA) are taken

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

So how many times has BI taken somthing down off the workshop?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:02 PM

#

technically BI can not take down a mod. they can speed up the process so steam can take it down. BI can mark reuploads as "incompatible" and it will no longer work with arma. BI has this done quite some time

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

So as this scenario goes. My friend can reupload my terrain to the workshop. And If i do nothing, nothing will happen and he wont have it removed. But if someone for some reason flags it to bi, BI WILL flag it to steam for removal?

#

this all implies complete inaction from me

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

this, under circumstances, is possible (in theory)

shell scaffold Mar 25, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

So long as the original content creator, the IP rights holder that is, does not start a DMCA takedown nothing will happen

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

Who dared pinging me?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

question:
should your friend be allowed to "host" your terrain

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

@fiery peak i didn't do the homework

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

thats not the question at all

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

but IF, your friend could list you as contributor on the workshop page, and you could do that for your upload too

#

but to get back, smb could flag your friends reup. but BI does not mark mods as incompatible blindly

shell scaffold Mar 25, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

So if you're a contributor you're able to reupload it?

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

So who can flag my friend's reupload of my terrain to BI?

#

besides me DMCAing

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

yes, but what sense would that make? @shell scaffold

shell scaffold Mar 25, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

Just solving potential DMCA issues

#

Thanks for the info

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

Everyone can flag it. Its up to you to take it down

#

Whether you shy to take it down *

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

everybody can flag a mod on the workshop. but actions will only be taken if
a. the flag is justified
b. violates ToS/EULA
c. BI is sure this upload needs to be taken down (after gathering enough proof / intel)

shell scaffold Mar 25, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

Wouldn't want people to be filing false DMCA claims, so careful how you report

#

You can only file DMCA's if you are the rights holder

#

So report to BI yes

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

DMCA yes, but flagging an item is allowed for everybody

#

flagging for child porn, anti-Semitic content... whatever

#

some use it to report IP / copyright violations

#

but as said above, only valid flags are taken serious and have actions followed

shell scaffold Mar 25, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

Just don't want an excitable misinformed kid getting themselves into trouble again

#

Already had one kid last year make that mistake

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

on a side note:
if more people are working together on a project, get a new account on steam for releases. don't use private accounts

#

eases it a lot

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

so BI will take down reuploaded content if reported to them

inland sphinx Mar 25, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

@crystal sage if you want to make sure it's not being taken down, get yourself added as contributor

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

no, BI will cooperate with steam so they can take it down

#

but if you report a violation to BI, the will for sure check it first

#

(i hope)

inland sphinx Mar 25, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

So who can flag my friend's reupload of my terrain to BI? anyone. Including automated filters, which steam will have to add if #article13

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

damn

#

totally forgot about the bad13

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

So I suppose the next question in this series is, who will report it?

inland sphinx Mar 25, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

anyone who knows it's a reupload and feels like reporting it

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

if not you, greedy kids

#

@crystal sage
do you want somebody to upload your mod?

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

so spiteful assholes will report it

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

if you answer my question i have a solution for you

inland sphinx Mar 25, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

Anyone who feels like following the rules set out in the steam subscriber agreement will report it

#

Question is if anyone really wants to waste his time like that. But reporting illegal reuploads is more fun than being bored and staring at a wall I'd say.

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:24 PM

#

you know we got some guys on the #ip_rights_violations channel who like digging 😉

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:31 PM

#

is that supposed to be offending? @lean plover 😛

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

Did you read it as such?

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

I will now 😄

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

The Internet is no place for you then

#

😂

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

mimimimimimi I'm offended!

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

Basicly what im getting at here is yes, reuploading is illegal as stated here. But so long as no one decides to be some ip rights white knight. It will not be an issue.

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

I'm sure you call someone coming up to you and tell you some little sh*t just stole your wallet is also white knighting?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

do break it down to one point: yes

#

but you know here we are...

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

it all depends on the original author. Some appreciate it, some don't really care.

#

So is any criminal offense; "fine" until someone finds out.

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 7:39 PM

#

There is no appropriate analogy that you can make for someone reuploading data

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

so even IF smb allows a 3rd party to upload his creation, it's still in violation with the steam ToS/EULA I wish people would stop repeating this. It isnt true. I dont know who started this myth but someone at BI needs to get this clarified. I've spoken with two lawyers over this very issue. Their view is that If you authorise someone to re-upload your content they then "do then have sufficient rights" to satisfy the Section 6 clauses. You just need to be be very clear when giving permission to someone that you are cedeing control of your rights to not only Valve/Steam but the person you are granting rights to.

#

I understand that this does make Workshop moderation very black and white but its really not that simple legally. If you don't believe me talk to a lawyer or Valve directly

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

since i also have professional help for my cases, i asked him about this a longer time ago. he explained it to me like this:

if you upload something to the workshop, and by accepting the workshop EULA, you grant valve some rights they need / want to have it running on the workshop. rights for publication, redistribution of images for promotional purposes, transfer data, translations and streaming purposes. (sec. 6A and B).
only the holder of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content can grant this permission

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

it's not just data. It's someone's passion project, their effort. Just "data" does not describe it at all.

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

yes, it is just data

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

in legal terms, it's "just" data

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

Yea in legal terms

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

that's what this is about atm

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

In legal terms, there is no white knighting 😛

#

Just concerned civilians

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

also true

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

Well according to the two IP specialists i engaged 6D You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B... is covered once you give someone permission. The issue is purely between you and the person you are deeding rights to. Valve dont care as long as the IP holder authorises it.

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:05 PM

#

You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B. above or in any license terms specific to the applicable Workshop-Enabled App or Workshop page. This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

I've had the various iterations of the Steam agreement pulled apart and debated over and over.

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

you have sufficient rights if somebody gives you the permission to reupload AND gives you personal rights or IP/Copyright

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

@lean plover There are so many cavets in this : In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

#

And in Such case that you have the right to submit....

#

If i give your the right to submit on my behalf its legal

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

slow, need to read the german version first 😄

#

If i give your the right to submit on my behalf its legal
if i did NOT contribute, it violates the eula

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

The terms of which that grant someone a license to re-upload are between you and them. All Valve care about is ; is the reuploader authorised by the IP holder. End of

#

No it does not

#

we can debate this all you want. What would satisfy you?

#

A ruling from the BI legal team?

#

a comment from Valve?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

would be top notch (both)

#

but we will wait for long i guess

#

neither BI nor valve actually really care

#

(imo)

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

I can tell you now that about 40% of tyhe uploads on the entire Steam workshop are uploaded on behalf of the artists. I know atleast 5 teams covering various games, prop and semi pro and amateurs that 'employ' people to manage their uploads. not a single one of the uploaders is a contributor

#

its only the A3 Moderators that have taken the view that no contribution means no re-upload despite written permissions

#

If that is what BI decide for thier community then fine but I just dont think its legal

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

but the main problem here in this moment is:
we are both laity (?) in regards of law. we both have professional help translating this eula to retard, and both got a different POV (by the professionals)

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

laity?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

non professional?

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

Lay

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

(translated it with google)

#

😄

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

well in the 3 games i use workshop on steam and with my interaction with Valve legal (which is very limited to a game dev contract and DMCAs) I really dont think my view is wrong and it based on experience. But i do concede your point. But it just needs to be clarified by Valve and BI. because right now this "agressive" moderation and "completely inflexible approach to moderation" is not helping. The quotes are not my words but from another discussion over the weekend but i am forced to agree with them. Its causing a lot of bad blood and confusion.

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

We welcome a professional ruling as well.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:22 PM

#

FM and I discussed this before with FM (speak of the devil) and honestly I think this is adding to the negative feeling in the community. You all know how tightly i control my own IP, im not trying to undermine anyone else's rights either but I do very strongly disagree with this "rule". I dont beleive it has any basis in real law and I don't believe Valve inteded such a strict interpretation of the clause.

#

Anyway I've expressed my opinion and explained what led me to it. So I will leave it there. until someone comes up with a ruling or evidence to refute it I think the "Not a contributor, no upload" rule is wrong.

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

As the legalese is open to interpretation, depending on what type of legal counsel reads it ( I had a US attorney give his opinion after we last spoke ), a stance towards the restrictive is preferred to one which is less so. No matter which side we pick (restrictive vs free for all), in the absence of an official ruling, we (moderators) will always be wrong.

#

Its for this reason that I would love a ruling one way or the other (preferably from Valve).

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

I see why the restricted view is preffered - it makes moderation far easier. But the point im making is that its only seen that way in the A3 community. And nowhere is there a set of guidelines for the user to know what is and is not legal.

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

that its only seen that way in the A3 community and Florida trial lawyers

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Its gotten so complicated between the Steam agreement interpretations. And the puseudo rule sthat appear its not wonder that people just ignore them

#

Ip expert or a generalist?

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:29 PM

#

I think the'd ignore them if they were in black and white as well 😂

#

Generalist

#

His comment was "individual rights are restrictive"

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

Talk to an IP lawyer, they are the most devious lot of them all. But as I told you previously I've never lost a case using these two. I'll take their opinions on this over anyone else bar Valve

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

in the sense that they were "reserved" and not "freely given up" so easily

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

Well that is a matter for the IP holder and the re-uploader's contract

#

once you have made that contract the issue of authorised on behalf of... is very clear

#

you have permissions

#

its basic contract law

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:32 PM

#

thats also similar to what he said, but only when there is a clear contract with delineation of rights

#

He used the example of "would you lend you car to someone if they had the rights to sell it from under you"

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:33 PM

#

Yes but as I keep saying as long as you accept that you are cedeing rights to your IP and still grant that license to the reuploader - legally they ARE covered in section 6

#

Cover it in your contract...then if they try to sell it they have broken your contract

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

I would tend to agree with you on that , but only when an acknowledgement has been made regarding the cedeing of rights. I've yet to see one of those in Arma.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:35 PM

#

The terms of that contract are between you and the re=uploader. Valve dont care aslong as that person is authorised

#

because you havent seen it doenst mean it doesnt exist. You haven't seen me... do i exist?

#

or Amazonian tribes?

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:36 PM

#

No, youre a figment 😉

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:36 PM

#

😃

#

You get what i mean though

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:36 PM

#

Of the mods that I have reported, none have had any sort of contract like that.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

There are two issues here. 1)educating the masses about what they need to understand and do to give permission. 2)Establishing if Valve accept the cedeing of rights to allow re-uploads

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:38 PM

#

Amen

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:39 PM

#

TBH legally someone saying "hey, yes you can re-upload my stuff but you don't actually have any other rights to it (ie I reserve all other rights) should be legally enough in most cases. The problem comes when the "IP" holder doesnt actually hold all the rights they are granting permission for.... but thats actually a completely DIFFERENT issue.

#

From my point of view, experience and research Question2 is Null as this issue seems to only be complicated in this community.

#

And its that complication thats causing issues

#

ie bad blood, confusion etc. I applaud the attempt at protecting IP rights. Im just not convinced its helping.

#

Again as I said previously, if that is the House rule that either BI or Valve applies then I'll abide by it. But until either party makes a definative statment I really dont think it legal

#

or as legal as some choose to see it as

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:45 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:46 PM

#

@willow crane it's more about Steam protecting itself

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:46 PM

#

Again, in the absence of a clear statement, we can only operate in accordance with past practice

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

They use workshop mods for a variety of purposes in a variety of ways, which could get them sued by the creator

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

No, he means within Arma in particular

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

By requiring the creator to be the one submitting it, it makes it so they can legally pass blame to the uploader

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

@high wasp I am fully awre of that. But I really dont think steam care as long as their is a valid contract between an Ip holder and re-uploader

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

They don't care

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

you as the uploader accpet all responsibility for the content you upload

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

But, if they one day did care, and BI allowed it, BI could get in trouble

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

thats what the agreement is

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

So now it's BI protecting themselves

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

I'm going to the shop... need smokes

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

@old jay grab me a cigar plz

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

BI dont come into it

#

they dont have any part in the content upload

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

BI have control over the workshop, they're the "moderators" of it if you will

#

basically a sub-contractor to Steam

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

BI's liability ends with the tools you use to create and pack content

#

Valve owns the service. Operates the service

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

Valve does, yes

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

They take a cut of all sales of BI products.

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:50 PM

#

Valve also has a bunch of legal jargon in their TOS that allows them to pawn off blame on other entities

#

You're not operating just within the confines of the law when you agree to TOS, now you have the TOS which are the "law"

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:50 PM

#

BI are a client to them. We as the consumer are using a Valve/Steam service NOT a BI one

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:50 PM

#

a valve service provided to BI to provide to the customer

#

BI is part of the link

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:51 PM

#

show me the part in the Steam Agreement covering workshop use that says that

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:51 PM

#

Either way, once you show me your law degree and a signed opinion from a US-based court, I'll concede. But otherwise, you're just pushing at a brick wall

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:52 PM

#

LOL how about 25 years of managing contracts and dealing with IP laden projects

#

I'm not a lawyer but Ive been exposed to enough contract law and contracts governing IP to see the limits and loopholes. (im obviously not a typist either)

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:53 PM

#

So, they have contract managers determine the law in court? I didn't know that

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

But please show me the agreement for workshop that i have with BI

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

Not trying to be an ass, I'm just making the point - the govt doesn't care about your 25 years of contract management

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:55 PM

#

lol no but i do write a lot of contracts and I do have to understand what is legal and what is not. Save a lot of time with the lawyers after the fact

#

neither am i. But im also trying to point out that our interaction is with Steam and legal liability for the use of the workshop is soley with steam

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:57 PM

#

But the thing is

#

You don't know what is legal and what is not

#

The govt knows that

#

You know what's worked in the past

#

And you might have a better idea of what may work in the future than others

#

But you don't know nearly enough for a company to hedge that kind of bet on

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:58 PM

#

Niether are you able to definately tell me what really is legal. You say BI have a part int he licence. PLEASE show me that part of the licence

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Im not nor have i ever claimed to be a lawyer.

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:58 PM

#

That's not what I'm saying

#

🤦

#

The fact you are not a lawyer, means that your opinion isn't backed up.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:59 PM

#

RTFHawkinsToday at 8:48 PM
BI have control over the workshop, they're the "moderators" of it if you will
basically a sub-contractor to Steam

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 8:59 PM

#

I didn't say you're a lawyer

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 8:59 PM

#

This is wrong

#

the relationship is more like thie BI > Valve <> Consumer

#

Sorry internet has dropped now on phone

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Issue is does valve accept an authorise user who is not a contributor to upload. My experience and interpretation of the agreement suggests it does allow for it.

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:04 PM

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https://store.steampowered.com/online_conduct/

#

Upload, or otherwise make available, files that contain images, photographs, software or other material protected by intellectual property laws, including, by way of example, and not as limitation, copyright or trademark laws (or by rights of privacy or publicity) unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received all necessary consents to do the same.

#

Use any material or information, including images or photographs, via Steam in any manner that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other proprietary right of any party.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 9:05 PM

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But until valve confirm either opinion than that's all they are

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:06 PM

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https://tenor.com/ZWFh.gif

Tenor

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

Yes we've all pasted the steam agreement and various memes here on this debate

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

when Arma loads up a stolen mod, and transmits info about it from their backend between servers or to the player, they violate the agreement they made when uploaded..

#

It's unlikely to be pursued, particularly if they're proactive.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 9:07 PM

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Between valve and the user not bi

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:07 PM

#

Which is why they proactively moderate based on the terms set forward by valve.

#

What? That agreement is between BI and valve

#

It's part of the upload process for a game.

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:07 PM

#

If BI said tomorrow that we are to take no action on reuploads, then thats what we'll do.

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:07 PM

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^

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:08 PM

#

But, as Rock has also pointed out, there is no current statement regarding that we must do something now.

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:08 PM

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Yep

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All I've said is they are proactive to limit liability

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:08 PM

#

then thats what we'll do.
i'd spike CUP with malware

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:09 PM

#

There was already the littoral helicopter duck

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so just insert memes into CUP!

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:09 PM

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that was the ROFLcopter

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😉

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:09 PM

#

So, whilst I do (mostly) agree with Rock, we can only operate within what we do have at our disposal.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 9:10 PM

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And there endeth any meaningful debate 😂

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:10 PM

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It was never a meaningful debate lol

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 9:10 PM

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Not for you maybe

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:11 PM

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🙄

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:11 PM

#

what've I missed, did someone get banned?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:11 PM

#

it can be healthy to have different POVs. this leads to improvement mostly. so i'd also say it is meaningful

#

at least we can debate on things having different POVs without calling names

#

that'S a plus

#

😄

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:12 PM

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hehe that's a win for this discord

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:12 PM

#

see?

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:12 PM

#

I have not perma banned since last Wednesday

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:12 PM

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oh I just read a weird conversation then

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:13 PM

#

you should just get a bingo shuffler out and throw a buncha discord ids in

#

just so you can get your fix

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:13 PM

#

didnt you ban that one guy an hour or two ago?

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:13 PM

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permaban

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:13 PM

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that was dedmen iirc

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or fireball?

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since dedmen joined the orange faction (and being a little trigger happy), FM seems to be jobless 😄

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:15 PM

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I still remember when dedmen joined the blue faction

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and when he still had the (∩｀-´)⊃━☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ /\(O_O)/\

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

is there a way we can see people being banned on discord so we can know why they stopped talking?

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

no, because if they get banned presumably what they were saying was either harmful or not worth reading

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:17 PM

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well that's subjective

#

I agreed with what the banned guy had to say

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

😛

#

it is subjective, because they moderate in the interest of the game and/or community, not a persons personal interests.

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So, it's essentially based on what they think will lead to a good community and game

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And so far they've done a real nice job

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lol

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

I have my own opinions on the moderation but afaik we can not publicly comment on the moderation

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

I agreed with what the banned guy had to say Banned guy has been banned well over 200 times. He started out sending death threats to Squad Devs and having them swatted before moving on to other games and then Arma.

#

Pick who you support wisely.

#

There are multiple open investigations into his actions.

high wasp Mar 25, 2019, 9:22 PM

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@crystal sage you already commented on it, so a lil late

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:22 PM

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does he have a different account every time?

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:23 PM

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Yes

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:24 PM

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We talking Witten?

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:24 PM

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Yes

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:24 PM

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WHAT?

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:24 PM

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Didn't know he took his crying to Squad too?

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:25 PM

#

that was witten?

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:25 PM

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Yes

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:25 PM

#

if you hear 200 bans, it's Witten

#

He's been terrorising other Discords too, CUP, TFAR and the like.

crystal sage Mar 25, 2019, 9:26 PM

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I am well aware of that user name

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:27 PM

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Huzzah! A man of quality!

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~~shit I misspelled quality.~~

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:27 PM

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CUP not anymore. we took effective measures

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:28 PM

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You added a mental stability threshold? 🤔

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

do you want the whole CUP team to ban itself?

#

😄

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:29 PM

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You can lower the threshold smartass 😉

bright tide Mar 25, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

AYAYA2

unreal shore Mar 25, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

Just confirm please, Bummeri was Witten?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

are you aware on what insanity threshold the teams works?

#

😂

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:30 PM

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I've observed that from pretty close yea

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there's a fine line between Witten and CUP devs 😛

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:30 PM

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ok, this is getting offensive now

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😉

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:30 PM

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mimimimi "Did you read it as such?" 😉

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 9:31 PM

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hates it when his own weapons are used against him

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:32 PM

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NO

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@unreal shore

wintry yoke Mar 25, 2019, 9:33 PM

#

Bummeri was someone entirely else, right?

#

If it's the Bummeri I think we are talking about

unreal shore Mar 25, 2019, 9:34 PM

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Right, just wanted to be sure.

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:37 PM

#

Bummeri is not Witten, completely unrelated conversation

#

Lacking a clear position from Bohemia on the matter, I will adopt the position of the closest written guidance published on the matter:


For many years this community has been known as the premium addon/mod creating community, people work tirelessly and in great detail to create fantastic addons/mods/missions/campaigns to release for free so that everyone benefits, including Bohemia Interactive. There are a few simple rules in place to provide the respect to these creative people/groups that they deserve:

The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. 

No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.

Obviously we cannot unfortunately control what people do outside of these forums, however on these forums you must follow this rule, if a person/team post a thread to share an addon/mod using content from someone else without permission and we receive a complaint then the mod thread will be closed until the issue is resolved and the forum member(s) risks being permanently banned from these forums for taking someone's work without permission.

This isn't just limited to re-using content in addons/mods/missions however, it's not acceptable to edit someone's work without permission and then to post screenshots of it on the forums (even if the edited addon/mod is purely for personal use), it's also not acceptable to edit someone's work, or use someone's work in any way that you don't have permission for and then to create videos which you post on these forums, doing any of the above without the permission of the original creators risks a permanent ban, for individuals, for whole mod teams or squads.```

sturdy wave Mar 25, 2019, 9:47 PM

#

who wrote this

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 9:48 PM

#

https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/54604-forum-rules/

Bohemia Interactive Forums

Forum Rules

Bohemia Interactive Forum Rules Please respect the following rules when you post on this board. Breaking any of these rules may result in a warning, infraction or post restriction (PR) for a set period of time or in extreme cases can result in a permanent ban. 1) No Flaming/F...

sturdy wave Mar 25, 2019, 9:55 PM

#

"19) Posting addon/mod other content without permission"
This is again going past what we allways discuss for the last months

#

in some way

unreal shore Mar 25, 2019, 9:59 PM

#

Just to confirm from that block FM, it says you have to seek permission but if the mod author has their mod hosted on for example an APL-SA license. Does that still apply?

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 10:03 PM

#

Sacher, Yes, but with specific focus on the Forum, NOT Steam.

Strike, it should, BUT, and this is the issue we've been discussing, does APL-SA grant permission to upload to Steam? This is not a question that we have a definitive answer on. The safe bet is to assume the answer is NO.

unreal shore Mar 25, 2019, 10:06 PM

#

Well it's just under that text, we can assume that the author using a GNU/APL-SA license is granting permission so long as it is within that license. Which would be the common sense method of viewing it, I understand both Steam and BI want to play it safe which is why BI has not commented and likely does not want to comment, and Steam has a broad EULA to protect itself which is why we are in this estranged position that is unique to ArmA.

old jay Mar 25, 2019, 10:19 PM

#

I wouldnt say its unique to Arma, I would however say that Arma modders are more informed and more aware of their rights. This when combined with the legalese contained within the SSA, leads to the majority assuming a hardened stance regarding who may or may not upload.

#

Also, on the topic of GNU licenses in Arma, the vast majority of them have been fraudulently applied to stolen content in an attempt to try and legitimise them. I do acknowledge that there are a few legit ones, but this is far outweighed by the rips.

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

APL-SA = Share Alike - But that licence does NOT allow you to cede rights of another creator/author. Which means no re-upload unless the original authors are willing to give you permission to transfer thier rights. Which according to the current moderator's interpretation of the 6D clause means you may not re-upload to steam. Other platforms that do not require you to cede rights are/should be permitted though. Which leads us to an interesting point. According to ther letter of the interpretation used here means any content derived from BI content is also not allowed on the Workshop... so arguablly CUP and other mods created using BI content should be removed under the application of this rule since the view is that Valve say if you didn't make it you dont have the right to reupload it apparently.... (Sorry @lean plover - just extrapolating here) 😉 😛 Interesting ...

#

Anyone fault the logic?

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 11:07 PM

#

well, CUP has IP on all changes and additions that where made with the mods. in the eyes of valve that classifies as sufficient

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 11:09 PM

#

Not according to the APL-Sa license. You are building off someone else's content and much give attribution which doesnt make it legally unique (in myexperience)

#

@lean plover Do you have anything from Valve to say that? I'm genuinely curious.

#

but hey as previously stated I'm not a lawyer. im just extrapolating from the rules. ie its not possible for someone to give you permission to re-upload something in the eyes of Valve.

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 11:13 PM

#

This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content

#

CUP-L (the license we use) is based on APL and by BI approved

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 11:15 PM

#

Ok so...that means you got permission from BI.... which means, logically, Valve must accept permission to upload content from other authors and users.

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 11:19 PM

#

we got permission from BI to use that license.
CUP initially used content from the "Licensed Data Packages" that was distributed under APL(-SA) for use and modification for everyone. we modified, changed and reworked this provided content according BI given regulations to our likings. the outcome was/is CUP and the CUP Mods are intellectual property of the CUP team and classifies for upload to steam

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

Which is fine but it does clearly demonstrate the point that it is possible to upload content with correct permission from another person/author/group

lean plover Mar 25, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

IF the uploader has certain rights of the upload, like IP (what we have)

fiery egret Mar 25, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

This makes me wonder: would that logically mean that any mod using ANY GPL/MIT/BSD-licensed code cannot be uploaded to Workshop since (obviously) you are not the author of that code and you only have permission to use that code according to some restrictions that differ from license to license?

willow crane Mar 25, 2019, 11:22 PM

#

LOL well you do not hold all the IP rights. You have been granted some rights as the APL-SA license states. Which implies that you have been given permission to re-upload content you do not 100% own to Valve's platform

#

@fiery egret Very probably.

#

Atleast under the interpretation of the 6D clause people are quoting here

inland sphinx Mar 26, 2019, 8:06 AM

#

@crystal sage is there a way we can see people being banned on discord If you click onto their name, and they have no servers in common with you. Then they are gone from the server. That might be because user left by himself, or got kicked/banned.

@unreal shore APL-SA license is granting permission so long as it is within that license
Uploading to steam wouldn't be. Steam reserves themselves the right to use the content you upload to promote their platform. Which I would classify as commercial use, which APL-SA forbids.
GPL/MIT allow that though.

proud moon Mar 26, 2019, 9:23 AM

#

I think this whole shenanigans of DMCA/bad permission/jada pada crap is all revolving around not being informed of permissions, which is also why white knighting around the workshop is not productive because the author/uploader could have had a verbal/informal agreement on it, and a 3rd party / another person, who isnt one of them or informed then goes up to DMCA/Report the upload on ""behalf"" of the author.. isnt the best of ideas.
(Validated by Dedmen/Chris_lutz that anyone can report it, so a 3rd party going in to report because they believe it's illegal without consulting with the Author beforehand and ask them if they have their permissions.. it's just in my personal opinion, outright stupidity on a whole new level of stupidity)

Scenario: I make a super awesome new map, it's brand new a lot of people like it.
I then put it up on the workshop under APL-SA, a while later someone wants to upload it for their modpack and they ask me in steam if they are allowed.
I say yes and they upload my map to their mod pack.

Now according to Chris_lutz, anyone can report him as "illegaly" uploading my content ""without"" my permissions or because they believe it's illegally done.
Dedmen says that BI will (his words) remove the reupload if it gets reported as it's violating steam (ehh....)
And that steam itself might also remove it ??? (Frakking do you think steam care about this poop of a small uploader? Highly frakking unlikely, only way to change my mind is getting a steam representative to make a public announcement regarding this matter)

#

So, in the end even though I give the guy who wants to upload my content on a his own modpack, my permission.. Some random kid/guy who believe it's all wrong could report it and essentially give the guy a headache.. without consulting with the author (me) first?

But hey, this all is just my personal point of view. I'm no lawyer and this isnt my professional area, but it is also my personal opinion revolving on my thoughts on this matter and bringing this up to discussion.

willow crane Mar 26, 2019, 9:23 AM

#

@inland sphinx which means that any content derived from BI Data Packages is now illegal on the workshop. So you going after CUP, 3CB or any of the 100's of other that use it?

#

I'm all for IP rights. I'm all for a honest and open policy, but some of these "rules" don't make much sense at times. If BI and especially Valve hand down guidence I will happily follow it. We need one very clear set of rules, evenly, fairly without bias or dubious intent applied to all.

proud moon Mar 26, 2019, 9:30 AM

#

I think the best way is that someone from BI, as a representative (not moderators, users or anyone outside their company), comes out and give their view on this matter, post their thoughts and also makes a public clarification regarding this matter, as a BI standpoint

willow crane Mar 26, 2019, 9:31 AM

#

@proud moon I know the question has been asked of BI. We just have to wait to see what happens next

proud moon Mar 26, 2019, 9:32 AM

#

Agree, and yeah I also know it has been sent up the chain to them 🤷

inland sphinx Mar 26, 2019, 9:41 AM

#

Some random kid/guy who believe it's all wrong could report it and essentially give the guy a headache.. without consulting with the author (me) first?
Easy workaround, get yourself added as contributor. Everyone will see that you are a contributor and it's pretty clear at that point that you wouldn't contribute to it if it were a illegal upload.

unreal shore Mar 26, 2019, 9:50 AM

#

Personally I'd rather everyone just stop until there is an official ruling from BI. This is causing more damage than good, and personal interpretation is over ruling any writing in the multiple forms we have on Steam and BI.

willow crane Mar 26, 2019, 9:59 AM

#

But without discussion how will Valve/BI know there is a problem? Seriously, I do agree and fully understand your point. But my point (that some are missing or choosing to ignore) is that some of these "rules" do not make sense at times. The rules are applied to some but not all mod packs and uploads. There are many uninformed opinions flying around and many different applications of these (mis?)interpretations of a single line of text.

paper nexus Mar 26, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

I think people should stop hunting unsure violations or violations of mods they don't work on or know and rather do something productive, I wish I'd have as much time as some people here seem to have.
@proud moon fully agreed!

dire trench Mar 26, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

@proud moon Regarding your case: The person uploading your map should state in the description that he/she has your permission. In this case people who doubt it will contact you first before filing a complaint.

Regarding the APL-SA stuff it would be nice to get an official statement because it opens a whole can of worms. For example, the Mi-8/17 of a mod (RHS, CUP, whoever…) is based on the A2 models and textures protected by the APL-SA license. If I made a retexture of the model using the textures, normal maps provided by the mod (based on the originals), am I in violation of the license as soon as I upload the retexture add-on to steam? Even if the mod allows retextures (like RHS does). Do I have to make sure upfront that the mod I retexture has BI’s permission? Do I need the mod’s and BI’s explicit permission to do so?

fossil cloud Mar 26, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

Some folks here honestly don't seem to give a shit if permission is given or not, and they've stated as such.

#

It's letter-of-the-law.

shell scaffold Mar 26, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

Does seem to be confusing how APL-SA does not permit you to reupload, yet you can upload A2 ported content that is distributed under APL-SA on behalf of BI

#

Especially in the context of ACE, which is entirely open source and free to modify/use yet earlier people were stating you can't reupload unless you are a contributor on Steam

wintry yoke Mar 26, 2019, 4:58 PM

#

People reported ACE3 (custom) reuploads? 🤔

#

I always skipped those since authors give permission for it, provided that there's some actual change in the package and it's made clear that the upload is not official and not endorsed by the ACE3 Team.

shell scaffold Mar 26, 2019, 6:14 PM

#

@wintry yoke Ahh you open up the pbo's and check through the sqf's before reporting?

wintry yoke Mar 26, 2019, 6:14 PM

#

Like I said, I skip reports for ACE3.

#

Besides, those are so rare, it's more likely pigs are flying tomorrow morning from 6 to 7 AM.

#

Other mods are rather easy to report since all it takes is the mod and a peek at the workshop crawler (provided it's up-to-date)

#

Anything shady? Gets displayed in #ip_rights_violations with a mention to the uploader (if possible) and the author(s) (if possible). Gives the author a chance to review what's been done and whether to take action. If they not on Discord, just look if there's any other platform of contact (Steam, Discord Server, BIS etc.).

#

or, well PM some authors that have agreed on a direct message.

proud moon Apr 2, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

I like how what was said in the #ip_rights_violations ... got "fixed/corrected/informed" now of all times, when it has been raised before by various members of this discord.

#

@lean plover
"Yeah.. If a No-Write-Permission is made, for all author contact details, then the player needs to scroll wheel through perhaps 2 digit number authors (hell maybe even 3 digits) to find the specific mod maker they wish to contact, to then use that information to then proceed to contact you."

It'd be easier to have the author's contact info in the mods description, so that those people who really need to find the contact info, will most likely go to the mod to either a) find the author to contact via steam or b) read the description for info on how to reach the author

#

It'd be easier if the Contact Info was in the description of the mod/post on all the distribution places for where that mod is available, as as well not every player is in this discord, not everyone will think that the official A3 discord will contain the contact info for all the authors who wish to put their contact info to.
That's most certainly their very first thought when thinking "I need to report this to the 'original author' or asking him if this is alright with him"

wintry yoke Apr 2, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

Why not leave that up to author?

proud moon Apr 2, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

That's certainly up to the author, I'm just stating my thoughts

fiery egret Apr 2, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

the player needs to scroll wheel through perhaps 2 digit number authors
Or use the search button ;)

Also, my guess is that you won't have more than 50 such authors (but that's just a gut feeling so don't quote me on that)

#

And if they are sorted alphabetically, then even going through a hundred of authors will be easy as pie

proud moon Apr 2, 2019, 9:17 PM

#

Sorted Alphabetically isn't really possible if the channel will be a "Author can come and ask to be put their contact information in the channel", you'd need to delete messages and resend them in order, winch and repeat when a new author wishes to have their info there

And yes, you can search for a name, but going back to my earlier statement.
Players wouldn't first think "Ah, let's go to the discord and see where I can find the Author's contact information"
But most likely think "Ahh, the info should be in the mod description or I can just send a message to the 'contributor' listed in the workshop on steam, to tell them of it"

And regarding 50 authors, well that'd depend on how many authors want to have their contact information in the channel. And there's a lot of mods out there, so no one knows how many would like to have their info in there, EVEN if they know about it

Just to make sure people know, I'm just stating my thoughts here and my opinion on the matter.

proud moon Apr 3, 2019, 5:49 AM

#

@vast stump already gave my thoughts on that specific question here in the #other_ip_topics
only my thoughts and opinion on the matter, it is up to BI if they want such a channel here.

(This is for the offtopic stuff after all, the #ip_rights_violations is for reporting A3/BI Violations, as it has been written in the channel's description from the start before people began using it for unrelated violations and reports)

lean plover Apr 8, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

@patent mango

https://project-silverlake.com/forum/index.php?/topic/263-arma-3-monetization/

Please note that we have written permission from all the mod creators to use and Monetize their mods on our Arma 3 servers. We can provide this information upon request if it is appropriate.

i'd like to see your permission to monetize CUP, HLC, MELB, POOK, RH, TFAR

Project Silverlake

Arma 3 Monetization

Project SliverLake Monetization Rules Our rules on Monetizing are strict and abide by Bohemias terms of monetization. You will NOT receive any benefit in-game that gives you an advantage over any other player from these donation perks. All of our perks have been approved by B...

#

just to remind you, lying about this might lead to a ban on this discord and the BI forums. what it definitely will lead to is a DMCA strike on your hosting service of your mod repository, and a C&D addressed to the hoster of your website and game server hoster.
think twice!

wintry yoke Apr 8, 2019, 2:31 PM

#

@inland sphinx something for you, too?

inland sphinx Apr 8, 2019, 2:32 PM

#

Yup

#

Already in the loop

wintry yoke Apr 8, 2019, 2:32 PM

#

👍

#

Weren't Lannisters into shady stuff years ago too?

inland sphinx Apr 8, 2019, 2:32 PM

#

One might argue that.. Just monetizing without permission, with mods that explicitly forbid monetization, and lying about having permission.. Is a bad idea to do while you are waiting for monetization approval by BI...

patent mango Apr 9, 2019, 1:28 AM

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Hi All, I would like to apologise here, we are currently seeking permission from respective mod owners. It was an oversite by my-self when posting that topic as it was copied from a template. I have now corrected this to our actual status with mod creators and will update when discussions have been finalised. We are here to actively work with mod creators and improve the Arma Life RP genre not RIP them off and take credit for their work. I my-self have been away from the arma seen for around 3 years due to job commitments and thus not massively upto date with developments in the community. I hope I have not gotten off on the wrong foot with yourselfs and can work with you collectively to help improve intellectual property in arma. With regards to the lannister it's a shame to hear it has been tainted in my absence. My background is from the Original A3L when I believed Lannister was quite a respectable name. If you have any further questions or would like to chat with myself please feel free to DM me here on discord.

patent copper Apr 9, 2019, 10:03 AM

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@patent mango Why did you not contact any mod developer to get a permission prior to this publication?

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I mean, at one point someone must have made the decision "the server is ready and can now be monetised"

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despite having not a single permission from the mod creators who's mods you are using nor apparently an approval from Bohemia

inland sphinx Apr 9, 2019, 10:05 AM

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I got contacted. But after I asked for full modlist I got only silence. Till someone contacted me about that forum post and that someone (correctly) assuming they don't have permission

patent copper Apr 9, 2019, 10:06 AM

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Sigh

old jay Apr 9, 2019, 10:07 AM

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Sounds like someone is attempting to operate under the "better to ask forgiveness, than permission" route. Those type tend to never get permission, especially after actions like this.

vast stump Apr 9, 2019, 11:25 AM

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First imperssions are important and usually define how things progress form there. Also probably wont help to have mr Trumps face as a avatar..

fair forum Apr 9, 2019, 11:29 AM

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Dont think avatars matter too much to people who dont try piss you off from personal experience

gritty basalt Apr 10, 2019, 10:31 AM

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Provided he has since removed the mods that did not have permission. He has come here to apologize I don't see any reason to witch hunt or humiliate him. Please don't use the first person that comes here to apologize as a scapegoat for everybody that has stolen content on the workshop.

wintry yoke Apr 10, 2019, 1:51 PM

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one of many != scapegoat

gritty basalt Apr 10, 2019, 2:18 PM

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I don't see the relevance to my point?

inland sphinx Apr 10, 2019, 2:19 PM

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Provided he has since removed the mods that did not have permission. They didn't tho

gritty basalt Apr 10, 2019, 2:21 PM

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Ah, Was unaware of that. In that case fair game.

wintry yoke Apr 10, 2019, 2:25 PM

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If he's treated as one of many illegal uploaders, how's he the scapegoat?

inland sphinx Apr 10, 2019, 3:25 PM

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1704021400 @zealous ore rhsusf
Guy has 2 workshop items. I'm DMCA'ing the other one right now. I'll leave his first one to you

zealous ore Apr 10, 2019, 3:49 PM

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@inland sphinx not seeing it on crawler

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will have amanual look, cheers

inland sphinx Apr 10, 2019, 4:47 PM

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Crawler showed it to me https://s.sqf.ovh/firefox_2019-04-10_18-47-09.png

sleek lantern Apr 10, 2019, 10:49 PM

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Project Silverlake opened up my pbo, stole my assets and renamed everything, so much for asking for permission

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431678176427769876/565524343916986398/0dccdb4cc935e03973b49d6cbcb8a9cc.png

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/enwtjsdi2z5o0u3/toolsisatool.zip?dl=0

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What I got linked of their stolen version

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My original asset https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1643771071

jade stump Apr 10, 2019, 11:15 PM

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@sleek lantern Didnt you work for Silverlake?

sleek lantern Apr 11, 2019, 12:03 AM

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Never made or worked for them

inland sphinx Apr 11, 2019, 6:59 AM

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Well they'll sure have fun removing half their modpack to become atleast somewhat legit..

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I don't get why all these life servers, that intend to monetize right from the start, don't make sure everything is legit BEFORE they launch their server.
Now they have dozens of players playing, but will have to remove literally half their modpack after launch, that's just stupid

tranquil obsidian Apr 11, 2019, 7:32 AM

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Hmm, not if they're taking the approach to obtain the population at the start and once at critical mass, remove the offending mods and hope the player count will retain the population.

vast stump Apr 11, 2019, 12:56 PM

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yes but thats total scumbag move

old jay Apr 11, 2019, 1:00 PM

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but wouldn't be surprising

dense verge Apr 11, 2019, 1:55 PM

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Arma Life did it, then removed nearly every gun mod and a few others they had and it died soon after

old jay Apr 11, 2019, 1:59 PM

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Actions have consequences.

wintry yoke Apr 11, 2019, 2:06 PM

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Serves 'em right

tranquil obsidian Apr 11, 2019, 3:04 PM

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don't disagree with you..... @vast stump

cobalt palm Apr 11, 2019, 7:15 PM

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What is the policy for taking a RHS script, namely the accessories, and altering them for my own personal use without uploading them whatsoever? I want to experiment with adding nightvision to the scopes and figuring out how to add an IR illuminator.

rapid escarp Apr 11, 2019, 7:51 PM

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Have you considered asking for permission first?

fiery egret Apr 11, 2019, 7:55 PM

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He's asking if there is a point in asking for permission

maiden wyvern Apr 11, 2019, 8:08 PM

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It’s about if you are monetizing

fiery egret Apr 11, 2019, 8:15 PM

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ppl get greedy and put a ridiculus price tag on it
Take revenge on them and make them starve by not using their overpriced assets?

rough lark Apr 11, 2019, 8:36 PM

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except EBO's can only be made by Bohemia

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legally

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well, its all about accessibility, there are possibly three times as many mods that are not even show, kept in private collections, both legal and illegal

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I have my own mod that is uploaded to workshop, but it is private as I dont want it uploaded all over the place

winter perch Apr 11, 2019, 10:21 PM

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so, when I file a DMCA

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does valve usually email me back?

lean plover Apr 11, 2019, 10:33 PM

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only if the violating party files a counter claim

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otherwise the content you flagged fill disappear in 2-5 days without you being noticed

winter perch Apr 11, 2019, 10:55 PM

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oh

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fascinating

winter perch Apr 12, 2019, 2:28 AM

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hey, what email can I use to reach valve's DMCA department?

inland sphinx Apr 12, 2019, 7:11 AM

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@winter perch dmca@valvesoftware.com

winter perch Apr 12, 2019, 7:11 AM

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thanks

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much appreciated

old jay Apr 12, 2019, 8:06 AM

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@cerulean kiln You can quit with the antisemetic comments see #rules

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@faint plover EBOs are prohibited. There will be no further discussion on the matter.

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@fiery egret Please see Bohemias EULA and our #rules regarding reverse engineering. Hint, ITS PROHIBITED.

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@cobalt palm The "policy" is
For many years this community has been known as the premium addon/mod creating community. People work tirelessly and in great detail to create fantastic addons/mods/missions/campaigns to release for free so that everyone benefits, including Bohemia Interactive. You must get permission to alter someone else's work, to mirror their work or to use it in any way other than for personal use. Without permission please do not edit, mirror, add to your mod pack or edit and share around your private squad.

RHS's website is here: http://www.rhsmods.org/

obsidian verge Apr 12, 2019, 8:43 AM

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Somwhere in the DIscord was talked about putting the VR suits behind a paywall for life servers, can anyone remeber what the outcome was ?

inland sphinx Apr 12, 2019, 8:43 AM

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There was no official outcome afaik

obsidian verge Apr 12, 2019, 8:43 AM

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https://i.imgur.com/4TuATnt.png

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Image

vivid musk Apr 12, 2019, 1:11 PM

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@obsidian verge From personal experience: Having 1 color free and other colors paid = good. Having all VR suits paid = bad

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The increased storage capacity is considered p2w by BI Legal

inland sphinx Apr 12, 2019, 1:11 PM

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First part definitely correct.
Second part I don't remember anything official by BI Legal

vivid musk Apr 12, 2019, 1:15 PM

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I only have some personal experience to reference, and even then that was... 3 years ago now?

cobalt palm Apr 12, 2019, 5:58 PM

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@old jay ok thanks. So because i am using it to practice my scripting and do not plan on sharing it in any way, then its ok.

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I plan on just using their p3d and paa and textures. I am rather new to scripting so i am figuring out how to properly make config files and make everything work before i even try to get into the visual side of things. I will not be sharing any of it, (if it ever works)

old jay Apr 12, 2019, 10:56 PM

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Ask.. them.. first..

inland sphinx Apr 13, 2019, 7:22 AM

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Without permission please do not edit, mirror, add to your mod pack
using it to practice my scripting and do not plan on sharing it in any way, then its ok Uh.. No. That doesn't match what their website says. The comma's are "OR"s

old jay Apr 13, 2019, 4:02 PM

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!purgeban @cerulean kiln 365d Anti Semetic comments despite prior warning against doing so.

bright brambleBOT Apr 13, 2019, 4:02 PM

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*fires them railguns at @cerulean kiln* Ò_Ó

maiden wyvern Apr 13, 2019, 4:43 PM

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u got him good

dense verge Apr 13, 2019, 4:47 PM

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Too right

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Down with the rule breakers

winter perch Apr 13, 2019, 5:28 PM

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dab

wintry yoke Apr 13, 2019, 5:54 PM

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what have I missed now

old jay Apr 13, 2019, 6:34 PM

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Anti semite

maiden wyvern Apr 13, 2019, 7:01 PM

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Arguably not but ok

old jay Apr 13, 2019, 7:09 PM

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He was warned for the first anti semetic comment, banned for the second. So,"arguably so".

maiden wyvern Apr 13, 2019, 7:09 PM

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The term "shekel" is not anti-semetic

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its a form of currency

old jay Apr 13, 2019, 7:09 PM

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it was the context in which he used it.

wintry yoke Apr 13, 2019, 9:46 PM

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is allowed by ACE's license

sharp rivet Apr 13, 2019, 10:23 PM

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All good ^ WIll remove

dim temple Apr 16, 2019, 6:20 AM

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If I were to take a BIS fnc (objectsGrabber and objectsMapper to be specific) and tweaked the source code a bit, would it be an ip violation for me to upload them (with original headers retained but a few lines added informing that I tweaked it and what I tweaked) to my own gitlab?

old jay Apr 16, 2019, 7:35 AM

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Arma 3 End User License Agreement
Ownership
All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles, computer code, ...... are owned by Bohemia Interactive a.s. (the Licensor) or its licensors.

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It would be more than just an "IP violation"

inland sphinx Apr 16, 2019, 7:40 AM

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They forbid to upload "parts of the program" which scripts certainly are. So it's not allowed. But many people still do it. ACE also has Arma code in there
In the end BI might always DMCA you. If you wanna be on the safe side, message them somewhere

dim temple Apr 16, 2019, 8:15 AM

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But if I were to write 2 scripts from scratch that do basically the same I wouldn't need consent right?

old jay Apr 16, 2019, 8:19 AM

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Yes, but with one very large caveat. Given that your first comment regarding altering BI's code and uploading it (without consent), not many will believe that you wrote it "from scratch".

dim temple Apr 16, 2019, 8:21 AM

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Well I can't exactly forget having read the code, I can however do my best to make my script different while still achieving the same result. I guess my question should be "does BI hold IP rights over the concept behind objectsgrabber and objectsmapper?"

old jay Apr 16, 2019, 8:22 AM

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I think the simple answer would be "yes". Its their code. But as has been stated earlier. Just ask them.

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The basis behind everything they do revolves around "permission".

dim temple Apr 16, 2019, 8:23 AM

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What'd be the best place to ask them?

old jay Apr 16, 2019, 8:23 AM

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Get permission by communicating with the original content creator(s).```

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Dwarden woud be a good starting point.

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You get much more by asking than trying to be creative.

dim temple Apr 16, 2019, 8:24 AM

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PM on discord acceptable or best via the forum?

old jay Apr 16, 2019, 8:24 AM

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PM would be a good start. If no reply in a few days, Forum.

dim temple Apr 16, 2019, 8:25 AM

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Ok, thanks for your help

old jay Apr 16, 2019, 8:25 AM

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no problem.

silk oracle Apr 16, 2019, 2:39 PM

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Is the author of SMA on here?

wintry yoke Apr 16, 2019, 2:59 PM

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Negative, looks like all development on it has ceased

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Found a reupload?

silk oracle Apr 16, 2019, 3:18 PM

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Yes, found a mod pack which includes numberous things of many mods

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1667835947

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And this is only their gear pack https://i.imgur.com/D73YQMe.png

inland sphinx Apr 16, 2019, 3:21 PM

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1667835059 Kola's TFAR anims

toxic jolt Apr 16, 2019, 3:26 PM

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Gimme 5 Minutes

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 2:19 PM

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@toxic jolt https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1709848458 TFAR anims

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@inland sphinx you'll have a bloody field day on this guy's workshop item page

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nothing he made himself

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@gentle dagger https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1709872361 JSRS uploads

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SMA and KA: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1710424244

inland sphinx Apr 17, 2019, 2:22 PM

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1709882449 VSM.
Why are jarrad and VanSchmoozin not on discord anymore?

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@sweet patio ragdoll https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1709829517

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Where the hell is their TFAR reupload tho

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 2:24 PM

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@wet falcon USAF https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1710385062

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Oh no, I meant general field day for content theft

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Jarrad left, VSM hasn't been active in months

inland sphinx Apr 17, 2019, 2:25 PM

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They have TFAR 3rd party addons in there. But no TFAR. wtf

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I want to throw DMCA too. I always have the hope that someone just get's plain banned from steam if they receive a dozen DMCA's within a few days

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 2:27 PM

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Immerse
Enhanced Movement
ILBE
Splendid Smoke
Immersive Cigs
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1709829517

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That's his entire workshop library

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Let the DMCA storm commence

toxic jolt Apr 17, 2019, 2:36 PM

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✌ thanks

shell scaffold Apr 17, 2019, 2:39 PM

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I mean, Jarrad's last post on a MLO thing was March 8th

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Sorry, April 12th

fervent quest Apr 17, 2019, 2:43 PM

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So, looks like GM will finally be #350

wet falcon Apr 17, 2019, 3:24 PM

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It was removed

gentle dagger Apr 17, 2019, 4:40 PM

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I'll go as well. This theft is frustrating. I'll keep it available on my workshop but I won't continue to maintain it. Let those fucks have it finally.

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 4:42 PM

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Valve really needs to start revoking workshop access for people who have been DMCAd.. Authors ceasing development due to continuous theft is out of this world.

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Even if it's just the ArmA 3 workshop

warm dew Apr 17, 2019, 5:17 PM

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What if we wrote a petition or collective letter to valve? LUL

lean plover Apr 17, 2019, 5:20 PM

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Nothing will happen

old jay Apr 17, 2019, 5:25 PM

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People need to go public and be vocal about it. Spread the word to Game mags, influential YouTubers, etc.

inland sphinx Apr 17, 2019, 7:02 PM

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@wild elbow Your servers modpack https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1707359973&searchtext=%40A3LN_Lakeside contains several illegal reuploads of mods. Please take it down immediately or I will have to ban you on #rules 19 and file a DMCA on the workshop item

wild elbow Apr 17, 2019, 7:02 PM

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Fine

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@inland sphinx Chill out, they are removed

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 7:08 PM

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Content thieves like you is why people stop mod ding altogether, and whose stuff are you going to steal then?

inland sphinx Apr 17, 2019, 7:08 PM

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Also you stole your whole modpack from "The Golden Life Project"... Which is probably not a good idea.
If you wanna start your own life server, then I'd suggest making something on your own and not just copying someone else

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Also.. Your donation terms violate the license of many of the mods you are running. And the Arma EULA too.

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You cannot monetize without approval from BI. Which needs permissions from all the mod authors who's mods you use

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 7:10 PM

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I feel some serious heat coming your way Beep

rain gulch Apr 17, 2019, 7:10 PM

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(quitting modding because someone reuploaded your stuff)

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 7:10 PM

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Because someone steals your content*

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Reuploading is only a part of it.

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And not someone, dozens of people with no regard for an author's effort

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You can downplay it all you want @rain gulch but what you gonna play with when everyone has stopped modding because of this content theft?

inland sphinx Apr 17, 2019, 7:12 PM

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@wild elbow making sure you read what I wrote above.
If you don't remove your monetization which you call "donation" I'll have to inform Bohemias monetization department about it.
I'll remove your #communities_arma3 post as long as you are clearly violating the most basic rules

rain gulch Apr 17, 2019, 7:15 PM

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@wintry yoke I understand bro, got to get those exposure points somehow 😎 👊

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 7:22 PM

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The what now?

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If you wanted attention, that isn't really the way to do it

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But whatever floats your boat my man

old jay Apr 17, 2019, 7:30 PM

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Never wise to do when Moderators are laying down the law. Collateral damage sometimes occurs.

inland sphinx Apr 17, 2019, 7:39 PM

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My troll detector was already beeping.
It wouldn't be the first time that a arma of trolls appears out of nothing once the hammer goes down on a life server.. Already happened half a dozen times.

sharp rivet Apr 17, 2019, 10:38 PM

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Anyone know what happened to Spec4Gear and Hidden Identity? I see it has been removed of the SW so just curious.

wintry yoke Apr 17, 2019, 10:43 PM

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(I think) it was removed due to the author ceasing development, possible being included into a bigger package by the same author

sharp rivet Apr 17, 2019, 10:46 PM

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Ah ok ^ thank you

dusk pelican Apr 20, 2019, 10:36 PM

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there’s plenty of repos, just grab one of those

bright tide Apr 20, 2019, 10:38 PM

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🤔

wintry yoke Apr 21, 2019, 7:45 AM

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Not all repos are accessible for public

old jay Apr 21, 2019, 9:22 AM

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and not all repos are legit

dusky plinth Apr 21, 2019, 10:48 AM

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Hey, I have a question as I want to make sure I am doing things correctly, what are the rules of translating a mod and uploading it?

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If we get the permission of the owner we are fine ?

inland sphinx Apr 21, 2019, 10:50 AM

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If you get permission from the owner it might be fine.. But.. If you have permission anyway why not directly integrate the translation into the mod?

dusky plinth Apr 21, 2019, 10:52 AM

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We need to change the textures as well for our life server and add new configs for sirens etc

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Im basiclly just covering my ass making sure i dont break the rules

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I could send them the translations

inland sphinx Apr 21, 2019, 10:59 AM

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configs and textures you can make in a config patch mod. And then put a dependency onto the other mod, that way you don't have to alter anything and don't even get into problematic territory

dusky plinth Apr 21, 2019, 11:00 AM

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oh and we can do that no issues?

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Ill look into doing that as I want to make sure people get credit for there stuff

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do we need owners permision for a con

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config patch

inland sphinx Apr 21, 2019, 11:02 AM

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no

dusky plinth Apr 21, 2019, 11:03 AM

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Ok thank you, im going to make sure all our mods and stuff is ok before going public anyways

inland sphinx Apr 21, 2019, 11:05 AM

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"before going public anyways"
What's this then?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566703620

dusky plinth Apr 21, 2019, 11:05 AM

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ahh fuck forgot to delete that

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thats from awhile back

inland sphinx Apr 21, 2019, 11:05 AM

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Yeah you better delete that quick 😉

dusky plinth Apr 21, 2019, 11:05 AM

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learning from mistakes

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the person who told me that was fine was banned from our community and we are starting fresh

old jay Apr 21, 2019, 11:43 AM

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and, just remember, if you're using "typical" life mods (cars, etc) most of that content is stolen, so you run the risk of being shut down anyways.

dusky plinth Apr 21, 2019, 12:48 PM

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im trying to get most of our stuff from the workshop which has been up for awhile

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like allesios stuff and the reuplaod of ivory cars

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i always hateed the standard life mods

inland sphinx Apr 21, 2019, 12:53 PM

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As long as you use it as dependency and don't reupload. noone can complain about you really.
unless you're trying to monetize

vast stump Apr 21, 2019, 1:39 PM

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@dusky plinth just make sure that reupload is also legit

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because reuploads rarely are/there may be reason its not in workshop

toxic jolt Apr 23, 2019, 12:37 PM

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@inland sphinx https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1490960587 TFAR
Shall we inform others about reuploads in #ip_rights_violations or here?

inland sphinx Apr 23, 2019, 12:37 PM

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here

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dieses darf nur von High-Life RPG benutzt werden
You don't tell me who can use my stuff

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Wow the guy who commented on that is a admin from High-Life RPG

toxic jolt Apr 23, 2019, 5:50 PM

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Yup, the guy that uploaded this stuff was kicked out of the team but refuses to take the workshop item down.

inland sphinx Apr 23, 2019, 5:56 PM

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Well I'll do it for him

potent storm Apr 23, 2019, 9:54 PM

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How can you tell what's in the "Mods" through steam link?

toxic jolt Apr 23, 2019, 9:55 PM

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@potent storm https://beta.workshopcrawler.com/workshop/peek

potent storm Apr 23, 2019, 9:55 PM

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Oof, nice.

inland sphinx Apr 25, 2019, 7:21 AM

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1711171074
JSRS and Dynasound in one pack? @gentle dagger you still wanna waste your time with this crap?
https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1711130347
TFAR 👀 KKA3 ACE Extension and TFAR Animations @toxic jolt
https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1711164404
Firewills jets, HAFM navy, NiArms AK, FA-18-Super-Hornet by @turbid raven, VSM
https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1711173179
Abramia, @strange shadow prei khmaoch luong, lingor, isla duala, panthera, Clafghan, Namalsk
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1478746952
@wanton tide BoC

All by one guy.

Different guy:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1654670834
JSRS, Caribou, Enhanced Movement, Diwako ACE Ragdolling, VSM

strange shadow Apr 25, 2019, 7:35 AM

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@zealous ore wanna do the honors?

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thanks @inland sphinx

patent copper Apr 25, 2019, 10:38 AM

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Let's add a discord bot that automatically posts reuploads of selected mods here 😄

proud helm Apr 25, 2019, 11:43 AM

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dwarden already did not wanted to have some bot to allow SQF execution
doubt that some auto-posting bot would be apprecieated

patent copper Apr 25, 2019, 12:03 PM

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Don't worry, it wasn't a serious proposal, just mocking because dedmens messages remind me of machine made reports

inland sphinx Apr 25, 2019, 12:10 PM

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Oh no! I have been exposed!

wet gate Apr 25, 2019, 4:42 PM

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👀

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Next mod: Bazooka that shoots DMCAs

lean plover Apr 25, 2019, 4:47 PM

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Already avaliable and called @zealous ore 😂

wintry yoke Apr 25, 2019, 4:47 PM

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Bazooka or ICBM? 🤔

wet gate Apr 25, 2019, 4:52 PM

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DMCA ICBM cluster munitions launcher

lean plover Apr 25, 2019, 4:53 PM

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And lasers

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A lot of them

boreal nymph Apr 25, 2019, 8:16 PM

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How about an ingame radio mod that hooks into Discord voice, we can call it TUFAR

old jay Apr 25, 2019, 9:03 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/halo-jump-airborne-special-forces-gif-13892243

Tenor

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A Bridge TUFAR

wintry yoke Apr 25, 2019, 9:16 PM

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that's ban-worthy pun

sweet patio Apr 29, 2019, 7:33 AM

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@patent copper crawler seems to be kaputt.

patent copper Apr 29, 2019, 10:28 AM

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will look in a second

sweet patio Apr 29, 2019, 11:21 AM

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👍

patent copper Apr 30, 2019, 5:10 PM

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@sweet patio couldnt look into the matter earlier, should be fixed now, update of the database is now running properly again aswell

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so give it 2-3 hours to update before running a scan

sweet patio Apr 30, 2019, 5:20 PM

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Thanks

patent copper Apr 30, 2019, 7:14 PM

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im not too sure

#

but i feel like steam limited the download rate for my server

#

😄

#

a lot of things im only pulling with slow speeds which were previously as fast as i my server connection was

#

that, or steam is having a couple of bad days when it comes to content delivery

#

(most likely the latter)

fiery egret Apr 30, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

Depending on the company, you could try buying an additional IP and then testing the speed using the IP you were newly given

#

(unless the whole company IP range was throttled 😛 )

patent copper Apr 30, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

steamcmd is timing out surprisingly often since yesterday

#

im speaking 15-20 times before a download is done

#

speeds also reflect that, most of the time it barely scratches 50 MBit down

#

whereas usually it would peak at 500 MBit

#

but only with some objects, i can imagine steam is just having a bad time

high wasp Apr 30, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

It does that every time for me, with the larger mods.

#

Like RHS & CUP

patent copper Apr 30, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

it must have been pure coincidence then that ive never witnessed in steamcmd myself when i was watching my console then

#

95 workshop items to download and index to go before the DB is up to date again 😄

#

also, my harddrive is getting full slowly 😂

#

will either need to get a additional harddrive into the build (which im not even sure i can request at the server hoster) or cleverly move things around to make space

high wasp Apr 30, 2019, 7:23 PM

#

lmao

#

what's your storage at?

wintry yoke Apr 30, 2019, 10:46 PM

#

Advanced Sling Loading
Advanced Towing
Advanced Urban Rappelling
Immersion Cigs
Jason´s GPNVG-18 Night Vision
BackpackOnChest
Enhanced Movement
FA-18 Super Hornet ( @turbid raven )
GRAD Trenches
TFAR (dedmen)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1724376214

lean plover Apr 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

#other_ip_topics

wintry yoke Apr 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

Task Force Arrowhead Radio ( @inland sphinx )
Abruzzi Vehicles
CBA
CUP Weapons @lean plover
NIArms

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1722539441

inland sphinx Apr 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

:U

#

I wanna bed

wintry yoke Apr 30, 2019, 10:51 PM

#

I know, I know

inland sphinx Apr 30, 2019, 10:51 PM

#

"Diese Mods sind von Domenik230 (alle rechte sind bei ihm)." blame him

lean plover Apr 30, 2019, 10:51 PM

#

nvm stalker... kust realized we are in #other_ip_topics 😄

wintry yoke Apr 30, 2019, 10:51 PM

#

xD

inland sphinx Apr 30, 2019, 10:51 PM

#

Domenik230. We all know him for making CUP Weapons and NIArms

#

Wait.. I've seen his profile before

wintry yoke Apr 30, 2019, 10:52 PM

#

Probably some other RP community

obsidian cypress Apr 30, 2019, 11:22 PM

#

And that's not their first. Seems like there was a "v1" but can't find that version...

clever beacon Apr 30, 2019, 11:49 PM

#

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1563748854&searchtext=sling
contains:
-Advanced Rappeling,towing,sling loading,urban rappeling
-enhanced movement
-kss
-spyder addons

and quite a few more like

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 5:55 PM

#

Im pretty sure D3S has their stuff open for anyone to use and do whatever they wish with because thats atleast how i remember it to be on the workshop desc ? Perhaps im wrong idk ?

obsidian cypress May 1, 2019, 6:00 PM

#

Still, uploading sutff that isn't yours on the Steam Workshop is forbiden, Article 6D of SWS EULA

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:04 PM

#

I mean understandable but there are people on workshop who are excused from that which i dont believe is fair tbh

#

IE : this guy not only uses ebos for his mod but every model is just retextured and modified structures that belong to BI and a few custom mods made by other content creators ... has a 4 star rating and he only gives perms to use if u pay him 150$ per pack ... hes litterly selling permission for content he doesnt own 😂...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1677452092&searchtext=Structures

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1676912041

vast stump May 1, 2019, 6:15 PM

#

@shell scaffold they are not excused. they just are not reported

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:16 PM

#

Ive reported it about 6 times so have quite a few people i know and this was before he even gained enough clout to warrant hos 4 star rating ...

obsidian cypress May 1, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

Only the IP holder(s) can upload on Steam. No one can bypass that in anyway.

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

Not true. You can upload if you are authorised to do so

vast stump May 1, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

IP holders*

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:18 PM

#

You must have clear written permission from the IP holder granting you limited or full rights to do so

obsidian cypress May 1, 2019, 6:18 PM

#

Woops, yeah sorry 😅

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

Doubt BI let that dude upload and modify their structures but who knows ....

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:20 PM

#

unlikely. but if you have reason to beleive its dodgy email BI

#

and flag the upload

#

make sure the email contains relevant evidence and its will (eventually) get dealt with

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

Both have been done ... someone told me a whole back its because this person is in france and they have a compeltely diff outlook on copyrights laws deeming them the freedom to do what they want with minimal punishment

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

France is a signatory to the berne convention and EU member so thats going to be bollocks

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

Idk how tru that is tho

#

I mean my statement about it not urs rock

vast stump May 1, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

Steam works in US and DMCA works regardles of where the uploader is from

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

Nope they dont

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

Besides its the law of the land inwhich the service is hosted that applies. In this case its Washington DC law

vast stump May 1, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

DMCA inside steam workshop does

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

Dmca doesnt operate in many areas outside of US hense why anzus is litterly untouchable

vast stump May 1, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

anything on STEAM it does

obsidian cypress May 1, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

Yeah but Steam is in the US

vast stump May 1, 2019, 6:24 PM

#

just that the original IP holder must do the DMCA

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:24 PM

#

The only exception to that is if the country of the person infracting the law is not a signatory or member of an economic region that international copyright is not recognised. Or that the laws applied in the US infringe that person's humnan rights

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

Ut if its BI’s content + violating their .ebo policy ... wht would one do then? Doubt BI staff are in this discord and emailing them , has not once weather this person or other things ive reported that are legittimate , have had any action done agianst so im guessing they dont care ?

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:33 PM

#

email infringements@bistudio.com ,

#

and talk to a moderator if you have questions

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

Dmca also ... ive attempted to dmca a person who litterly uploaded my source without permission ... and i had to use “creative methods” in order to take it down because dmca didnt do a thing about it dispite me litterly sending them a 40+ hour video of me making the content and the person telling me “5,000$ or ill release the source” ... guess i have bad luck idk lol

#

A little off subject but .. aside from this issue, is there any alternatives besides DMCA that i can pirchase ? Like a protection of copyrights.etc that would help protect my content ?

willow crane May 1, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

not a product but you can pay to register copyrighted items

#

DMCA is only a mechanism to ensure compliance with copyright law

#

If you follow the example given by Valve in the DMCA form its usually enough

#

I would suggest creatig a license for anything you create and publish. If you are working on a shared project then write a shared contract that covers the possible issues.

#

Internal disputes what happens to existing content. who owns it is the team fails etc

inland sphinx May 1, 2019, 6:56 PM

#

@shell scaffold report to monetization@bistudio.com

#

the report button on steam doesn't do much

shell scaffold May 1, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

10-4 rubber ducky ill send an email to that adress as soon as i can ... i believe the email ive sent previous to this conversation , wasa different adress because i dont recall the “monetization” part being in the adress i reported this issue to in the past thanks for that @inland sphinx

candid whale May 2, 2019, 7:53 AM

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@shell scaffold anzus is US based now

#

Just for anyone else's DMCA request OVH is his dedi providor

dim temple May 2, 2019, 8:41 AM

#

Quick question, can I license a java program I made under APL-ND?

inland sphinx May 2, 2019, 8:42 AM

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Sure

#

You can license stuff you made as whatever you want. But it might not necessarily make sense

dim temple May 2, 2019, 8:43 AM

#

well, it's a little tool to start a server and automatically restart it if it goes down

inland sphinx May 2, 2019, 8:43 AM

#

I guess it is not really used "in arma" so just by using it you might already break that part of the license 😄

dim temple May 2, 2019, 8:44 AM

#

guess I'll go find another license and add some extra restrictions myself

inland sphinx May 2, 2019, 8:44 AM

#

I'd say just use CC with NC-ND

old jay May 2, 2019, 8:47 AM

#

YaBoiBlue Im pretty sure D3S has their stuff open for anyone to use thats what rippers do

fiery egret May 2, 2019, 11:07 AM

#

Why -ND? I can't even fix a bug in your code if ~~you get hit by a bus~~ you lose interest in maintaining your program and are not around anymore. The "look but don't touch" license for software is really pointless in my opinion. Doesn't differ much from a simple "all rights restricted", but teases you with the source code available to you - that's even worse.

add some extra restrictions myself
What restrictions? It would be helpful to know what you actually want to obtain/prevent to help you choose a license :).

Btw. even the Creative Commons guys advise against using CC for source code and suggest using one of the licenses that have been designed for software: https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software

Honestly, I'd suggest you to go with GPL(v3/v2) instead. Yes, people can then reuse and rewire your code but they are then forced to release the whole source of their own modification to the public.
And you have to ask yourself a question: would it hurt you if you knew that the code you've written has been used in an application that's freely available to all (because GPL) and is helping people, since they are using it, even if you didn't write 100% of that code? (note that since the modification would also be GPL, you'd be free to take their changes back and implement in your own software)
@dim temple @inland sphinx

dim temple May 2, 2019, 11:09 AM

#

due to the nature and state of this project I currently don't want people to produce any derivatives, in the future I might release it under MIT like most of my other projects

fiery egret May 2, 2019, 11:11 AM

#

Then "All rights restricted", I guess? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

inland sphinx May 2, 2019, 11:16 AM

#

My assumption was that the project is closed source. So ND makes sense there

fiery egret May 2, 2019, 11:17 AM

#

If it's closed source, then it definitely should not be under CC

dim temple May 2, 2019, 11:17 AM

#

well you can't exactly call a jar closed source

fiery egret May 2, 2019, 11:18 AM

#

Technically it's not source, sooo 😉 (yes, I know what you mean, but it's still not "open source")

inland sphinx May 2, 2019, 11:18 AM

#

Yeah. Thats why you would still put a ND license onto it. As even if it's closed source. people could technically still rip it apart and make derivatives

#

so closed source should not be CC and open source should also not be CC. What should be CC then? ^^

fiery egret May 2, 2019, 11:19 AM

#

Not source code? 😛

inland sphinx May 2, 2019, 11:21 AM

#

But a closed source tool isn't really "code"

wintry yoke May 2, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

@wet falcon USAF: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1654794712

#

and another one here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=757071799

inland sphinx May 3, 2019, 12:09 PM

#

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1686499703
PLP, HAFM, NiArms, TRYK, EWK Cigs
Guy asked me to have permission to reupload TFAR. Yeah.. not this way dude
"I'm working on the mod, eventually we will remove everything we didn't make" well.. Have fun spending months or years of work recreating other peoples stuff from scratch.

inland sphinx May 3, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

Life server advertises on BIF, actually spam and in wrong section. Well whatever.
Oh.. They are modded. I wonder if...

Oh..
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1416983175
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1631177499
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1511943857
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1660175277
Well..

Last one, kola, diwako, SGT_Fuller, DerZade, Dsylexci, Mondkalb, Lexxman, 0utsider
Have fun.

#

Wouldn't say that I expected all of that when I read that it's a modded life server but..... Honestly I did..

sweet patio May 3, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

I actually do not go after reuploaders that are private milsim groups under a certain number of subscribers on steam if they do not violate APL-SA.

inland sphinx May 3, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Actually don't know why that item was in there. That last one is listed in the items of the first guy, Who is the life server owner. He is not even listed as contributor in that second one though

wintry yoke May 3, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

@sweet patio youll probably get reuploads under the excuse of "but they didn't get punished for it so we can do it too" - excuses

sweet patio May 3, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

i dealt with those as well

#

so no worries

#

Basically i am pretty lenient when it comes to reuploads, just follow the aplsa license and i am mostly fine, is your community gtrowing too large, consider using dummy mods or collections or a3s.

#

that is how i go by normally

high wasp May 4, 2019, 5:31 AM

#

@inland sphinx I believe PLP is allowed for reuploads (by author, not by steam)

pearl galleon May 4, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

Believe is not knowing... why not just have a look at his modfiles on steam? https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014008803/myworkshopfiles/?appid=107410

Oh look what appears:
Any unauthorized modification of the released files is not allowed without any written permission by the author(s).

wet falcon May 5, 2019, 8:57 AM

#

@inland sphinx which link has my stuff in it?

inland sphinx May 5, 2019, 11:58 AM

#

The last one Fuller

high wasp May 6, 2019, 7:16 AM

#

@pearl galleon if you read it, that says modification, not reuploading. For example, he has always encouraged map makers to pack his pbos with theur map, rather than requiring a dependency link.

grand fable May 10, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

So whats wrong with VSM? the only thing Ik about is it that it gear mod and that how its not on steam cause of something

lean plover May 10, 2019, 7:30 PM

#

IP and copyright violations iirc

vapid otter May 10, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

IP?

high wasp May 10, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

@vapid otter intellectual property violations

vapid otter May 10, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

Oh

#

Lol

high wasp May 10, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

@grand fable to my knowledge, VSM was accused of using stolen assets in their mod. Since then the creator has recreated it with what seems to be original or rightful assets.

grand fable May 10, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

@high wasp oh okay, I thought it was something else that I didnt know. I read that their models where from battlefield or modeled it after so I thought it had to do with that

high wasp May 10, 2019, 8:24 PM

#

Using assets from Battlefield would be stolen assets

grand fable May 10, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

wat if its not from, but modeled after? like how optre is I guess

inland sphinx May 10, 2019, 8:42 PM

#

Then it would be fine

#

but that's not what happened

old jay May 11, 2019, 7:24 AM

#

@grand fable
So whats wrong with VSM?
Ripped assets, then when given the opportunity to make amends, chose to lie about it.

wat if its not from, but modeled after
IP holders such as Disney (Star Wars) prohibited anything that looks like their IP, so its not always safe to assume. Only explicit permission allows content to be used. No explicit consent, no use.

grand fable May 11, 2019, 7:55 AM

#

Oh awww thats big sad for vsm. Im actually surprised ppl haven't made mods with stuff from(well inspired from i guess) battlefield or call of duty so im guessing ppl dont cause of the consent then

#

It would be nice to see a bf2142 mod but idk wat EA thinks :(. I guess Microsoft and who ever makes 40k are cool with mods of their stuff?

sweet patio May 11, 2019, 8:47 AM

#

40k creator gamesworkshop is pretty strict with their ips, honestly no idea if they are alright with it. I have not seen any official statements or anything.

old jay May 11, 2019, 8:47 AM

#

Bungie on the other hand have allowed their content to be used.

#

Oh awww thats big sad for vsm No, not really. Steal and get banned.

vast stump May 11, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

Afaik Games Workshop (wh40k) usually allows warhammer mods as long as n they're non commercial and don't use ripped assets.

#

Not sure If it's GW or ripped models IP holder who shuts down mods usually.

inland sphinx May 11, 2019, 12:39 PM

#

"inspired by Battlefield or call of duty" you mean like... real life guns? M4's SCAR's HMMWV's? I think.. we already have that stuff

rapid escarp May 11, 2019, 12:45 PM

#

tactical beards everywhere

uneven portal May 11, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

10 years ago GW was doing really horrible tactics with their IP. the model resellers couldn't even use their images in the web shop for the minis... they've calmed down in the recent years it seems

grand fable May 11, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

oh okay

atomic hatch May 11, 2019, 8:15 PM

#

Can I ask advice here

#

I made a server on the altis life rpg framework (non-modded) made everything myself apart from the base framework

#

I have a bunch of custom features

#

one of my developers leaked my mission

#

All of the code is .sqf/.hpp and all the images are .paa

#

The altis life rpg has a creative commons non commercial license

#

Can I contact bohemia

#

or is it just tough luck

obsidian cypress May 11, 2019, 8:18 PM

#

Why would you want to contact Bohemia?

atomic hatch May 11, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

Sorry I forgot to add, he gave it to someone and they made a server

rancid crane May 11, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

did you ahve any license in your mission files requiring the permission of the owner (yourself) to use?

atomic hatch May 11, 2019, 8:20 PM

#

no

#

I assume its tough luck which I understand if it is but I was just wondering

obsidian cypress May 11, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

You can try contacting their host if you have all the proofs

atomic hatch May 11, 2019, 8:24 PM

#

I don't own the framework though

#

https://github.com/AsYetUntitled/ owns it

#

I just have a bunch of improvements

fiery egret May 11, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/
When you make a creative work (which includes code), the work is under exclusive copyright by default. Unless you include a license that specifies otherwise, nobody else can copy, distribute, or modify your work without being at risk of take-downs, shake-downs, or litigation.
@atomic hatch

old jay May 12, 2019, 8:36 AM

#

English only on this Discord please

#

Its in the #rules ```13) Write in English

Please write only in English on the public forums. Avoid writing in any other language or any kind of slang or txt speak since the majority of the members most likely won't understand. In private messages you are of course welcome to write in any language you wish

winter perch May 14, 2019, 6:51 AM

#

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1740907757

#

🤔

inland sphinx May 14, 2019, 6:52 AM

#

@zealous ore

vast stump May 14, 2019, 7:07 AM

#

I think RHS could post that pic on an announcement that states they remove the whole uniform from their release due to constant misuse. Maybe replace it with a teletubby or something.

old jay May 14, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

The (re)uploader has been permanently banned from the Forum.

zealous ore May 14, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

@inland sphinx seen

#

cheers, DMCAed

static nimbus May 16, 2019, 2:54 AM

#

@zealous ore Is this actually yours? https://www.patreon.com/redhammerstudios

hollow nexus May 16, 2019, 5:08 AM

#

that is official, yes.

inland sphinx May 16, 2019, 6:31 AM

#

~~It should be more public than it currently is I'd say.~~ First time I see that
Ah. Posted on twitter and facebook just yesterday! That's what I meant
Wait you opened it 9 hours ago and already have 10 patrons covering 1/4th of your monthly cost?
Well that went quickly

zealous ore May 16, 2019, 7:27 AM

#

@static nimbus yes

#

@inland sphinx considering some of rhs devs are also part of these 10 patrons...well

dim temple May 17, 2019, 10:14 AM

#

Does APL-SA allow simple reuploads?

obsidian cypress May 17, 2019, 10:15 AM

#

Reupload on wich platform?

dim temple May 17, 2019, 10:15 AM

#

from armaholic to steam

obsidian cypress May 17, 2019, 10:16 AM

#

No, you can't reupload on Steam

#

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#6

dim temple May 17, 2019, 10:16 AM

#

a nvm, the original author seems to be aware that someone reuploaded his stuff

obsidian cypress May 17, 2019, 10:17 AM

#

Even if APL-SA allowed simple reuploads, it's forbidden by Steam. You must the IP rights holder to be allowed to upload on Steam.

dim temple May 17, 2019, 10:19 AM

#

I just found a mod that was a reupload and was wondering if I should inform the original author but he himself has commented on the mod so I don't need to make him aware that his work has been reuploaded. I can't really as a 3rd party go complain to steam now can i 😃

obsidian cypress May 17, 2019, 10:19 AM

#

And I think that APL-SA allows for unmodified upload of the material.

#

You can report the submission if you think taht it breaks Steam's EULA but you must provide evidence, etc.