other_ip_topics

[celest sundial]

No this is only about Reforger.

this does not provide any licensing info itself, only an additional notice. all licenses of the content included in subfolders needs to be respected

[inland sphinx]

I don't know anything from bohemia saying anything against it.
But you might get data privacy issues if you log stuff.

Reforger workshop can only set rules about the mod you upload. Not about the backend.
So if your mod needs a backend that people don't have access to.. tough luck.

But it's strongly preferred you don't kill the game or spam errors when the backend is unavailable

In the future it will also be a bit easier to have server side only code.
If your Clientside mod does nothing and is purely remote controlled from server, and they don't have the code. Tough luck

[main marsh]

Like having a client modlist and a, separated, server modlist only known from the server via it's config file ?

Edit: trying to make more sense

[inland sphinx]

I don't understand that sentence.

I mean like if you implemement a gameplay mod, like altis life or a game mode.
You can make your client mod just react to commands the server sends, without command nothing happens and the gamemode doesn't work.
And the whole code that controls and runs the game-mode, is server-side only code that the clients don't have.

[meager bolt]

but there is no licensing in the sub folders

I’ve searched through HLC_Core and there’s like no readme or anything

so I’m sitting here like

no way to really reach out to the author either cuz I can’t find their discord anywhere

[fiery egret]

Isn't the author @cursive grove? 🤔
If so, then you just found the discord where you can contact them 😛

[meager bolt]

Lmao I didn’t even check here I just went through the steam account and looked

[fiery egret]

Otherwise, you could have created a Github issue, btw

[meager bolt]

oh true yeah that’s a good idea

but yeah I should prolly say what I’m trying to do

I’m an operation trebuchet dev, the muzzle flashes in the mod suck, I wanna include the NIArms ones if possible, i can’t really write a compat for it bc the proxy is defined in the p3d, so yeah thank u

[cursive grove]

(I don't list my discord because I get enough targeted harrassment on the public channels)
Hi, so the PBOs for NIArms (both the hlc and niarms prefix eras) are delivered as-is under APL-SA, you can read the terms and the text in full at https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Licenses.
I don't think I have the raw source files for muzzleflashes available (didn't think they were a thing anyone would find useful), but if I did put it them up (,and I might or just send them to you) it'd be under a similar license through Creative Commons as all my source material is https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/deed.en
Apologies for not having those anywhere, Core comes from a time when I wasn't concerning myself with licensing lol

[meager bolt]

yeah no that’s fair I get it too lmao

ur github has the non-binned p3ds and that’s all I need, I’ll continue the work on a branch all I’m doing is cleaning it all up until it’s quite literally just the muzzle flashes and textures for it

Thank you for the response tho, I’ll be sure to put the credit for u into optre if I do end up going through with this project and ofc yeah it’s not commercial lol

yippie

[small hamlet]

Evening all.

Need a license query answered, if possible.

https://sketchfab.com/licenses

What is forbidden?

You may not use the 3D asset in a way that allows others to use or access the 3D asset as a stand-alone file (for instance, no sub-license or sale by you to others is allowed). For similar reasons, you may not distribute the 3D asset incorporated in a derivative work if the derivative work is too similar to the 3D asset (for instance, you may not print a 3D asset or a slightly modified version of it and sell it).

You may not use the 3D asset in a way that violates anyone’s intellectual property rights (e.g., copyrights, trademarks, patents, or rights of publicity), nor may you make a pornographic, defamatory or otherwise unlawful use. Similarly, you may not use the 3D asset for the direct or indirect promotion of alcoholic beverages, tobacco, gambling, weapons or explosives.

And you may not claim you are the creator or copyright holder of a 3D asset you purchased.

In theory, a standard license asset purchased from Sketchfab should be... fine for use in a mod, so long as it's covered by Arma APL-ND? I think I'm reading this right?

[vast stump]

yes you can use models with such license in mods as long as you binarize the mod so the p3d is locked and of course you dont also share the model to others

[small hamlet]

Makes sense - I binarise my .pbo's as a standard, so that covers that concern.

How does this work in a team context? If you've got multiple people working on a mod as a group project, does each person have to purchase the asset?

[vast stump]

does everyone need access to it?

Id guess it gets a bit tricky in such situation

if one person buys a model, the license does forbid passing it on

in game studio environment the studio would be lincense owner and individual artits would have access to such model

[small hamlet]

That was the issue I was trying to wrap my head around, yeah - if you've got one person responsible for managing accounts and making purchases, but another person that's responsible for actually working with it, it does look like it breaks the license.

Unless it's that latter point, yeah - so studio / team ownership.

[vast stump]

but modding is not quite such setup

I dont have a clear answer to that off the top of my head

Id wait for others experienced in such to chime in

[small hamlet]

Roger that - happy to wait before walking into a potential disaster imo.

[vast stump]

Id wager its not an issue but does not hurt to have more opinions on that

[small hamlet]

👍

[hardy bone]

You can also contact Sketchfab and explain them your current problem

[edgy rover]

License grant

2.1. Licensor grants to Licensee a nonexclusive, non-sublicensable, nontransferable, worldwide, revocable, paid, Single-Seat license to Reproduce the Licensed Material identified in the Invoice, solely to the extent explicitly stated in this Agreement, and subject to Licensee’s full and complete compliance with this Agreement (including, without limitation, the license conditions set forth in Paragraphs 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 and payment in full of the Invoice) (the “License”).

Definition Single-Seat

1.13 "Single-Seat" means that Licensee is allowed only one Seat per License, i.e. only one identified user or one identified user acting on behalf of an organization can access the Licensed Material under the License. Multiple users are not allowed to use the same Seat. If you wish to be granted a Multi-Seat license, please contact Licensor for a custom price quote.

[vast stump]

this does seem to cover it. So if what you buy is single seat license then it is for you to use only. If you work in team you need to contact the author.

I would wager many might say it is just fine to buy it once and use within a mod team. But it is appropriate to make sure they are fine with it.

[small hamlet]

Awesome, thanks for the clarification both. \o

[zealous ore]

@worn frigate is this you?

https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/5ADD31817243EAD5?

[worn frigate]

Yes, what's up?

[zealous ore]

copy pasted scripts from rhs status quo for reforger = no bueno = mod removal + ban

[worn frigate]

There shouldn't be any, what is the reference?

[zealous ore]

agreed there shouldn’t be any, but there are

just because you changes the prefix doesn’t mean these are not the same

[worn frigate]

That wasn't supposed to be in there, i can remove it, i was trying to figure out a way to make a probe, but I didn't need it

[worn frigate]

All set

[woeful zinc]

are you aware that there are more scripts from RHS in your mod?

[worn frigate]

Is there a way to check to see script origins? The only one I'm aware of is spacestriders tank track script

[woeful zinc]

is it your mod then? You shouldn't use other people work. If you are using someone else work which is APL it might be worth to keep track of it via spreadsheet

[worn frigate]

He specifically said we could use it a looong time ago, which is why it's in RHS as well

[woeful zinc]

I'm not talking about tracks

[worn frigate]

I'll take a look later today

I pulled it from the workshop until I can do a code review

But if you can throw me any hints that would be great

[rugged prawn]

so it is or isnt your mod? who "did the scripting"?

[worn frigate]

It is my mod, but there was community contributions while I was out with my child.

The only think that I found was some periscope code that looks like it was never used anywhere, it's gone now

Thanks for bring it to my attention

[abstract crest]

@meager fractal DayZ mapper John McLane reached out to GSC apparently. Response they got was summarized on Twitter. Possible one of the DayZ hands may want to reach out to him for source material in order to update IP Biki page? https://x.com/JohnMcLane666/status/1821516719447310654

JohnMcLane (@JohnMcLane666) on X

GSC Game World sent me an email, answering my questions regarding the current situation of the new licence regarding modding with old stalker assets.

#dayz #modding #gsc @dayz @thedayzpodcast

Twitter · Aug 8, 2024, 12:00 PM

[meager fractal]

I don't see the summary

(I don't have X)

[cursive sedge]

Y?

[meager fractal]

😴 .zZ 🛏️

[meager fractal]

I summon @coral juniper / @celest sundial and disappear in a cloud of smoke ☁️

[inland sphinx]

Yeah you could never charge for mods. Duh.

tldr is, its still fine but.
no commercial use (Already not allowed by DayZ Tools EULA. But DayZ folk have trouble following that one already... And notable for monetized servers, the ones who don't already not care and monetize without even bohemias permission)
clearly mark it as unofficial
link to GSC pages where the game can be purchased
Follow other guidelines of GSC
License is not official, GSC can take anything away if they wish

[abstract crest]

And a date (October 24, 2024) by which those requirements have to be met, at which point any that don't are in violation

I would note the wording in the image posted by John that seems to imply that this response only applies to existing maps/mods too, not new ones

[fiery egret]

Quick, everyone, create a placeholder mod before October, just in case you want to actually make one in 4 years! 🙃

[abstract crest]

Quick BI, put a placeholder ARMA 4 workshop up damn it!

[fiery egret]

Just name it "Armaplatform Stalker" and you're set! That's still the same project since the platform is still the same

||/s - just in case||

[normal pond]

GSC - moves across the river
BI - can community find out?

[zealous ore]

is this sorted? because your contributor @coarse shell thinks differently

[brave summit]

What are the licensing rules for unpacking and rewriting any of the Bohemia's scripts or include files in the addon folder? Thanks

[inland sphinx]

Bohemias scripts have no license. On them, so it's a no use. Technically.

Practically, why would you even do that. BI scripts are either huge and messy, or so small you could write your own

[analog sphinx]

most of the time you end up doping better by remixing them or by taking their concept and using modern engine solutions to achieve more with less

[night zealot]

I can’t believe I’m that big of an idiot, I thought I was in texture makers

[vast stump]

is alright 😄

[dark cipher]

Can i retexture vanilla Buildings? and if i want to start re-texturing Vanilla Buildings, am i allowed to repack Vanilla p3d's? i saw that Vanilla Buildings don't have hiddenSelections

[lavish basalt]

Theoretically yes you can retex it by very workarounded way. Otherwise no AFAIK

[meager fractal]

if models are encrypted, no.

[dark cipher]

k ty

[south remnant]

this has been posted in here before

and as per norm stick it in the email else nothing is happening

nothing will happen if you email but at least you emailed or smth

[timid fulcrum]

@zealous ore Appreciate the redirect to the proper channel, hopefully we can sort this out because I'm rather confused at this coming out of nowhere

[zealous ore]

Not sure what it is there to sort out. We have updated out EULA page (here - https://docs.rhsmods.org/rhs-status-quo-user-documentation/arma-reforger/rhs-status-quo/eula ) with additional information pertaining out stance on Derivative Content, Monetization, Portrayal of ongoing wars and Limitations in regards to the usage of RHS mods

the paragraph in question states
Due to repeated infringements of the existing Red Hammer Studios EULA and/or Bohemia's Interactive Terms of Service with an emphasis on and/or

[timid fulcrum]

What have we done on either side of that statement?

[zealous ore]

in accordance to this #ip_rights_violations message we can choose to restrict (on top of our current ND license) usage of RHS as we deem necessary.

[lethal cape]

Just as a friendly heads up. According to a ruling made by Bohemia Legal your alteration to your liscense isn't legal and cannot be upheld.

[zealous ore]

As stated, the list will be continuously updated

[timid fulcrum]

I'm not nessesarily worried about this as we have planned on not using RHS since we dropped it, but I fail to see where these baseless accusations come into play

[lethal cape]

You cannot take away rights from someone who previously held them.

If this was the case then the discussion of WCS's infringement on us is also available for further discussion.

[zealous ore]

:)))) sure, unless the mod is updated, which it was

[timid fulcrum]

As I stated in the previous channel this seems like PR ploy at best to paint contending groups in a negative light without having details or proof to back these claims up

[lethal cape]

This is not true. Per MarioE

[zealous ore]

i don't make baseless accusations btw

[lethal cape]

I'll shoot it straight down the middle with you. I've been fairly professional with you in the recent months even going as far as to come to your aid and fight your fights for you against Sierra Zulu.

This is just a blatantly disgusting slander ploy.

Then what is your accusations?

[timid fulcrum]

If these are the type of underhanded tactics that RHS is going to use for traction I will gladly remain a non-user of their content. I have yet to see or hear any evidence pertaining to us

Only "read this"

[lethal cape]

Because no "Accusations" have come across anyones desk on our end.

If there's an issue I will gladly correct it.

[zealous ore]

sorry what?

[lethal cape]

You don't remember Sierra Zulu baiting you into arguments to play victim 5 months ago?

[zealous ore]

Not sure who sierra zulu is

[lethal cape]

Yet they're in your liscense as non users.

Wonderful gaslighting Pufu.

[zealous ore]

ahhh, sierra golf

[lethal cape]

Sorry My B. Sierra Golf.

That one's on me.

[zealous ore]

easy with the words

[timid fulcrum]

Regardless of any of this how can you say they aren't baseless claims when you are failing to provide proof of any infringements on either side?

[zealous ore]

but quite a few came my way, which is what is more relevant to limitations

[lethal cape]

If anything i'm more interested on the legitimacy of this alteration. Because if this alteration is legitimate that would mean I have grounds to continue pressuring Bohemia on the infringement they refused to act on.

[zealous ore]

i have provided the necesary information to the relevant parties

[lethal cape]

Well obviously these accusations don't hold much weight because we have yet to hear about them 💀

[timid fulcrum]

Ahhh I see, so there is no proof, this is just an underhanded tactic for RHS to gain traction against a competitor, as neither BI nor RHS has contacted us regarding any of these claims, nor has any official ruling been directed to us or made aware to us

[zealous ore]

i cannot comment on that one.
From a legal POV, i can change the EULA (the base on the license remains the same, same CC ND license use) based on pertinent information

[lethal cape]

I've been called a pedophile a few times by people right before I banned them. Is that sufficient accusations for you to come to the conclusion that I am one?

[zealous ore]

sorry, RHS doesn't compete with anyone. We make a mod that we release for free publicly

we do not have competitors, we do not host servers etc.

we openly encourage people to make their own mods etc.

[lethal cape]

You certainly can change the EULA. But according to Bohemia you can't take rights away from someone who previously had them. The way it was explained to me was that if we previously used your mod we get to use the liscense we began with.

Which in my opinion, which isn't based in legality, sounds wrong.

But it's the ruling they made regardless.

Which is why someone was allowed to use a pakexplorer to steal our shit while it was under apl

And keep it after I changed the liscense to ND even though they uploaded it after the update to ND

[zealous ore]

if BI can change their EULA (which they did, and they plan doing again), so can RHS

[timid fulcrum]

That is most definitely not how that works

[lethal cape]

So then where do I go from this ruling on our infringement issue? Because if you can do it, and bohemia can do it, why can't we?

[zealous ore]

who said you cannot. I am not even aware what you are talking about tbh

[lethal cape]

MarioE

[zealous ore]

what is it with Mario?

[lethal cape]

I don't know

[zealous ore]

....

[lethal cape]

He jumps on mushrooms or something.

I got to get back to work. Lovely chat Pufu lets do it again.

xoxo

[zealous ore]

you can contact bi legal department via email legal dot bohemia dot net

[timid fulcrum]

Simply put, trying to provide negative publicity to a different group that is publishing their own mods is competition, I know RHS doesn't have servers. We couldn't have infringements against us even with the "new" EULA because you can only make judgements based on things that were done with YOUR content, and being that RHS is not a division of BI this is quite literally a PR ploy at best, or retaliation at worst for things unknown to us. The failure to provide proof, and or reach out to Darkgru in and of itself is grounds for dismissal of your claim, as legally for an infringement to be made and upheld, the accused has to be notified of what infringement they have made.

[calm swan]

Regardless of the fact, the mod is uploaded to a publicly used workshop which allows anyone to use the mods...

[zealous ore]

not really -> see this #other_ip_topics message

[zealous ore]

I do not need to provide proof to you (not even know who you are) directly, i can (which i have already) provided proof towards BI legal.

is quite literally a PR ploy at best not in the slightest

RHS is not a division of BI inded it is not

[wild copper]

I've got no dog in this fight, but the last time something similar was discussed this was the ruling

#ip_rights_violations message

[timid fulcrum]

I'm not saying you have to provide us proof, im saying you have to provide us the notice of infringment, which has failed to happen, and since BI legal has not reached out to us in regards to these claims, I will notify my team that they are free to use RHS until directly notified by BI otherwise, as again this goes against previous policies stated above. That said RHS will not be used on any of our main servers but I will not stop anyone from Darkgru from using RHS in any capacity because this is not something that can currently be enforced. Have a good day Pufu, it seems we have come to an impasse.

[zealous ore]

sure but RHS has never been ALP-SA, but APL-ND, and remains apl-nd

[wild copper]

I was under the assumption that the ruling would stand regardless of the license type, is that not the case? Pertaining specifically to any license being updated after the fact

Edit: Ahh I see, it's a change to your EULA. Now this is gonna be a fun one for BI legal to figure out

[calm swan]

Would love to see that enforced. Its wild. Not that it has been used for over 2 months anyway. Baseless accusations, the license regardless comes under BI licensing, which it is uploaded under, regardles of your alterations to your own.

[zealous ore]

That said RHS will not be used on any of our main servers
if you are not using it, it has no effect on you
Darkgru from using RHS in any capacity because this is not something that can currently be enforced.
it sure can

@lethal cape - this is a direct breach of our ND license, just because you've asked for an example of breach of ND license -https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/60613D5B2834AB9C-DGPLARHSHelmetCompatability

The TOS issues pertaining BI tools are with BI legal

[timid fulcrum]

I never said we won't use it, I said not on the main servers.

I look forward to hearing from legal if it ever comes down the line. For now this remains a PR ploy and as I previously stated, underhanded tactics for baseless accusations.

I'm not sure what else you want me to say, "Oh no, not RHS 😭" I'm sorry but its not going to happen.

Until BI legal tells us we are not allowed to use your content, our team has been notified to ignore that update to the licence as we had used RHS under a previous revision.

[coral juniper]

I think I told you that if you used mod A, then mod A decided to change the license in an update, then after that version that was updated you are not allowed to use it anymore if the license now disallows you.

but previous versions were released under the previous license

RHS has always had ND, iirc

Otherwsie we would have followed up on those modders that suddenly changed their license to ND and then minutes later try to get modders banned that took source from when the mod was released under open license

[wild copper]

They have, but their EULA got updated and now @timid fulcrum's is in breach. Does that mean his mod can be taken down?

I spose it's also worth mentioning that in that same EULA RHS reserves the right to take down anything derivative they feel like so the point is kind of moot

[timid fulcrum]

I have no mods, and the problem is Darkgru is not a legal entity

So unless each individual user in our group is named

It has no affect

[wild copper]

For the sake of argument it's just easier to use you lol

[coral juniper]

unless it was really bad, you can always cut out the infrigement content and be unbanned btw

[timid fulcrum]

No worries

[wild copper]

I have no dog in this fight like I said, I'm just interested in the ruling

[timid fulcrum]

If Darkgru is not a legal entity, how is something blindly enforceable? And why hasn't BI legal informed us, we have no notice of any infringements

[zealous ore]

sure, i can do that if you so please.

[coral juniper]

down to the user that uploaded the content

That user agreed to the terms of use and eula

[lethal cape]

Excellent. I'll take it down.

[coral juniper]

and is the responsible party in this case

Anyway

[timid fulcrum]

So each user has to be named, correct?

[coral juniper]

that is for court in those cases

The user agreed that we will enforce infringements and take down mods from our workshop

[timid fulcrum]

As Darkgru is not a legal entity, this would have to be carried out against each user

[wild copper]

Yes

[coral juniper]

user => uploader of the mod in workshop

[timid fulcrum]

Ahhh sorry for my confusion

[stuck panther]

Can someone shed some light as to what exactly DarkGru infringed upon regarding violating RHS license and content?

[timid fulcrum]

They refuse to provide that information

[zealous ore]

here is an example
#other_ip_topics message

[lethal cape]

Just to clarify. Is this a violation because you don't like us or in general? Because there's ALOT of mods that are way more intrusive than making your Night Vision compatable with helmets.
@cosmic plover has made a career modding your content. Is he in infringement as well?

What about the german mod thats entirely reskins of your content?

[coral juniper]

He sells the mods?

Can you provide a report?

[lethal cape]

Sells mods?

Who's selling mods?

[zealous ore]

:))))

[stuck panther]

There’s a precedent that has been set in any dispute regarding two entities that the claimant has to levy specific charges against the entity they feel is in violation

[zealous ore]

the irony

[calm swan]

DarkGru doesnt sell these Mods!?

[lethal cape]

That's an analogy

[lethal cape]

What's ironic?

[wild copper]

@zealous ore this is kind of offtopic, but why wasn't the clause regarding depictions of current warzones in the EULA from the beginning? I know it's been in the Arma 3 mod for ages

[lethal cape]

Sending this here so good ole @zealous ore knows I'm doing something since he's addressed it.

@coral juniper I've lost the file access to this mod in a harddrive transfer I did after 1.2. How do I go about removing this from the workshop? https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/60613D5B2834AB9C-DGPLARHSHelmetCompatability

[south remnant]

Is that seriously all this is about?

[coral juniper]

create a mod with the same guid, then you can do stuff to it

[lethal cape]

Thank you. I'll give that a shot.

[coral juniper]

otherwise I can remove it for you

[zealous ore]

it was an oversight from our part when we moved from a platform to another - our A3 EULA has that covered. Also considering BI is on the same page, we let that be dealt by BI TOS. Considering the increasing amount of such mods for reforger, we consider it would be wise to be written down

[lethal cape]

I don't want to put more work on you than I already have.

If I can't remove it i'll let you know.

I got it. Thank you @coral juniper

[stuck panther]

This is a slippery slope where a mod team/creator can explicitly bar an entity from using their content by name. With this precedent now being set, it is borderline advantageous for teams to partner with specific communities and explicitly ONLY allow that community to use their content

[timid fulcrum]

It seems that way

[zealous ore]

not only this one, nope. It is a sum of things, i was just asked to provide an example of breach, so i did

[coral juniper]

Better to discuss it than not doing it and be unaware

[south remnant]

so you choose a compat mod?

get a grip

yet another reason reforger modding is already down the toilet

[coral juniper]

Be civil, or you will be timed out.

[wild copper]

This has always been the case with APL-ND. RHS own the content they make, and they can revoke access whenever they want

[lethal cape]

Here you go @zealous ore
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/607890C143259412-BundeswehrEquipment-Stable
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/607CE45D27490DBF-JTF2
Here's two mods that infringe on your rights even more. Happy hunting.

[wild copper]

@gentle minnow

[lethal cape]

And lookie here. One of them has been doing it long enough to reach a whopping 1gb

[south remnant]

Actually it was never the case until RHS asked for it to be the case 🙂

Plenty of people have got in hot water for it before

[zealous ore]

with what precisely?

[south remnant]

with disallowing certain users using their mods 🤯

[zealous ore]

the ND license? BI provides one in the form of APL-ND

[lethal cape]

Don't worry friend. I've learned to take licensing very seriously since my rough start here. I'll help you find all the infringements on your liscense.

[zealous ore]

BI does not enforce that

[south remnant]

lmao

sure

[lethal cape]

Because surely if you're upset I put your nod function on one of my helmets you definitely don't want people making 1gb reskin mods.

[wild copper]

But under APL-ND, they've just tolerated derivatives and taken down what they don't like. I don't think there's any precedent that has/can be set there

[lethal cape]

I got you.

[south remnant]

derivatives =/= people using the mod

this is about the latter

[wild copper]

Oh right

[zealous ore]

the stance is as follows, from a legal POV, out license is ND. We welcome derivative content as long as some basic rules are hold, and as long as people do not sell RHS content, they don't sell mods, they don't pay for mods etc

[south remnant]

so what's the actual infringement? 😂

[wild copper]

All of this is speaking specifically to derivatives though

[south remnant]

clearly not

[lethal cape]

Wild because you just had me take down mine and I don't do any of that shit.

Before I get to finding you all your infringing mods Is there any more infringements I've done to you you would like me to fix?

Other than what you've presented

[wild copper]

The infringement is making a derivative of RHS content isn't it?

[lethal cape]

Only if they don't like you.

[wild copper]

Yeah pretty much

[calm swan]

Which DarkGru does not do?

[wild copper]

But they're within their rights, even if it's unfair

[lethal cape]

Either Pufu doesn't like Darkgru and I get sucked into it or Pufu doesn't like me.

I like(d) pufu

It's one sided though

ig

[wild copper]

Yes because he made the mod

It's rough that a compat mod is being targeted don't get me wrong

[zealous ore]

maybe not as a group, i can't tell

[wild copper]

But maybe you could make an RHS competitior that is better and more fair

Take it as motivation

[calm swan]

Now respectfully, what TF is that suppose to mean?

[lethal cape]

https://www.patreon.com/redhammerstudios

RHS takes money for mods

Lmao

[zealous ore]

we don't write license files based on individual likes or unlikes

[lethal cape]

So then you're going to be contacting that poor lad that invested 1gb of time into modding your shit right?

[zealous ore]

i have contacted (and have been contacted) by several mod users, thanks for your concern

[calm swan]

All but DarkGru huh? sounds about right.

[lethal cape]

I'm looking out for you. I wouldn't want you to be hypocritical or anything.

[zealous ore]

any unlisted ones?

[lethal cape]

Probably! I'll look for you this week.

I have a good feeling I know just where to look too.

[zealous ore]

no no, made by you

[lethal cape]

Of course not.

I have a few unlisted mods but it's all arsenal configs and items I didn't need to clutter the workshop with. Nothing in relation to you.

But hey i'll still look for you. The modding community is supposed to help eachother right?

Maybe you could help me by DMing me what exactly your fucking problem with me is and the things I can do to fix it? Because I can't imagine living life scheming in a corner about how upset I am a dude on the internet is doing things some pissed off guy told me about.

[zealous ore]

sure

[lethal cape]

Hell. Perhaps I could even clarify some of these "accusations" you've gotten.

Darkgru does piss off people. Part of the territory.

[timid fulcrum]

Im going to level with you here.

Failure to notify a party of infringement and uploading a document or EULA in this case to a publicly accessible forum can be considered slander, as no official ruling has come down the line. Now I know BI would not support that kind of behaviour, or if they would correct me if I'm wrong. If that is the case I don't think BI has the platform I'm looking for.

I'm disappointed that this issue has spiraled to the point it has, but legally speaking slandering a group (as we are not a legal entity) can still be considered a breach of law in many of the places BI's products are used.

RHS is claiming that we have breached their TOS and/or their EULA, they clearly misunderstand their own EULA because at that point using weapons, gear, uniforms and other such items from current world conflicts would be considered a breach of the current conflict clause if we want to boil it down to the bones.

As Darkgru has not infringed on the EULA of RHS or has any legal documentation from a lawyer or law office saying we have been accused of infringement I will be forced to speak with BI legal regarding public slander.

[south remnant]

BI does not have the platform you're looking for

[zealous ore]

i have no problem with you, we have exchanged maybe 10-20 messages this far, so you assume that i know of you

[south remnant]

As someone who's spent far too long modding Arma, go elsewhere

[lethal cape]

We're on the same page here. So I fail to understand why I'm being drug into this.

Is the issue me? Or is the issue the people I'm affiliated with?

[wild copper]

This ain't it man

[calm swan]

DarkGru witch hunt in full force as usual.

[timid fulcrum]

I don't mod, I have a community of almost 14k members that are "Darkgru" so barring that many people may not bode well

[south remnant]

you're a content creator

same thing

[zealous ore]

i just demonstrated infringement of RHS eula. also bi legal email is listed above

[timid fulcrum]

And I'm not even the owner

[lethal cape]

What kind?

the feet kind?

[south remnant]

i wish

[zealous ore]

also you just said that darkgru is not a legal entity, yet you said you haven’t received an official legal document from a lawyer. make up your mind

[shy tusk]

Real

[calm swan]

So if i chose to use a map on a server, that is loosely based around a current conflict warzone, and chose to use RHS on it, because the content inside the pack is similiar to equipment and uniforms used in that said conflict, would that then breach your license, because that would then be depicting a said warzone/conflict?

[timid fulcrum]

Where are the legal documents served to us regarding an accusation of infringement? Also you showed that we

1. Did not sell one of your mods
2. Added the ability to make your mods compatible with different mods
3. Have credited RHS with the usage of their mods.

There are others doing the EXACT same thing as you claim we are in breach for.

Without a legal ruling publicly stating that our group has infringed upon you is slander. Let alone any individual.

You are proving my point. If Darkgru isn't a legal entity how can you name Darkgru on your EULA as not allowed to use RHS mods?

Because it's Slander that's why 🙂

[zealous ore]

not RHS one, we clearly state derivative content of RHS. You might break BI TOS

[wild copper]

RHS has always had the ability to take down derivative mods since they chose APL-ND, regardless of whether or not you follow their rules. They can take down literally anything that is derivative of RHS. Theyve only tolerated derivatives

It's a free product

You have no rights to use it or create content from it

[timid fulcrum]

So if you haven't served a person or entity with notification of legal action due to infringement, it is legally, slander

[calm swan]

So, to clear this up. If I use RHS specifically (as in no alteration, just RHS itself) on a map based in a current warzone, using armbands as such and the RHS gear depicts that current conflicts equipment/uniforms, that breaches it?

[lethal cape]

Say yes

I have servers to send

We're gonna shape up this community one way or another.

[timid fulcrum]

RHS content already depicts current world conflicts with various gear items, uniforms, and weapons. The setting of the battle is just the surface. This is so that if RHS doesn't like you they can claim infringement 🙂

[timid fulcrum]

That's not what I'm worried about

What I'm worried about is publicly slandering 3 groups without legal precedent, as infringement is considered against the law, and not a light word to throw around

[zealous ore]

Where are the legal documents served to us regarding an accusation of infringement? Also you showed that we
for the Nth time, i do not need to provide you with anything, i need to provide BI with it, via the existing tools provided as part of the workbench.

There are others doing the EXACT same thing as you claim we are in breach for.
sure, as you can see, the list is gonna be further populated.

Without a legal ruling publicly stating that our group has infringed upon you is slander. Let alone any individual.
is it a group now? is it a server? is it a random entity? so i can adjust

[calm swan]

@zealous ore please can you clarify on this exactly pertaining your licensing.

[zealous ore]

part of the same EULA
Please note that the above-mentioned agreement gives Red Hammer Studios the right to waive any of the conditions at our discretion.

[lethal cape]

At the end of the day with all the fun and games I appreciate you communicating one of the issues with me @zealous ore.
I've resolved it for you. If there are any more issues regarding me directly please do contact me and we can resolve them. Mario is welcome to slide into my DM's on these issues. Shit even send my Bohemia account an email. I'll respond and handle it.

Darkgru doesn't use RHS anymore and we likely wont in the future unless something horrible happened to me. You guys do a fantastic job at what you do but your content just isn't appropriate for a conflict server in our opinion and not appopriate for ours. There's no hatred on our end. I love a good mick every once in a while.

All the love Pufu babygirl. My DM's are open.

[timid fulcrum]

Darkgru is a name I'm not sure what the question is here. It pertains to a community that plays on Arma Reforger. To say that each person of that group infringed or even willingly infringed on the EULA set fourth by RHS is slander, as many people haven't even been around to see the usage of RHS content.

Does that make more sense?

[zealous ore]

if no derivative of RHS, it is just in poor taste, but it is up to BI to sort out, not us

[wild copper]

But strictly speaking it does break your EULA right? There just isnt anything you can do to enforce it

Not anything reasonable anyway

[calm swan]

So if it is PURLEY just a RHS mod that has no alteration, that is fine? Even tho, your mod, is used in conjunction with another to depict current world conflicts.? So therefore, theoretically breaches your licensing?

[zealous ore]

false, we provide the content fielded by militaries. We do not provide the setup whatsoever

so does BI

[tepid lion]

Why is mommy and daddy fighting

[zealous ore]

Darkgru doesn't use RHS anymore and we likely wont in the future unless something horrible happened to me. You guys do a fantastic job at what you do but your content just isn't appropriate for a conflict server in our opinion and not appopriate for ours. There's no hatred on our end. I love a good mick every once in a while.
so even less of an issue then

[timid fulcrum]

False, AK variants that are exclusively used by Russia are a breach. Uniform patterns used by Russia are a breach. Vehicles that are used by Russia are a breach. Weapons employed by the Ukrainian forces are a breach. As your EULA is ambiguously worded to not depict real world conflicts. Those are all depictions of real world conflict

[pliant oracle]

depictions of real world things, not conflict

[south remnant]

which one is which

[tepid lion]

Pufu is da da

[calm swan]

Agreed, you do not provide the repsective set up. But your mod, can and is currently used on multiple servers which aids in the depiction of current world conflicts, This breaches your license, correct? Because your mod is used directly aiding in depicting current world conflicts?

[timid fulcrum]

It's all about how the claimant perceives it

[frigid zenith]

I wanna be the long lost uncle 😅😂

[zealous ore]

Darkgru is a name I'm not sure what the question is here. It pertains to a community that plays on Arma Reforger. To say that each person of that group infringed or even willingly infringed on the EULA set fourth by RHS is slander, as many people haven't even been around to see the usage of RHS content.
who's name? the server? the group? the mod? is it like people or like LGBTQ+ or like ACDC fans or ?
EDIT:
there was no intention to make a separation between people and LGBTQ+ whatsoever. There was no homophopic intention whatsoever

[timid fulcrum]

I've already answered that question, a community

[calm swan]

Is that some sort of like homophobic analogy? What has LGBTQ+ have to do with the conversation in any regard?

[stuck panther]

I absolutely love the whataboutisms going around right now

[calm swan]

Also, im still waiting on an answer regarding the use of your MOD which breaches your license by being used to depict a current warzone. Also, under this license. BI i expect you to act on the infringement to RHS licensing in regards to the usage for depiction of current world conflicts

[south remnant]

hey babe new pufu quote just dropped is it like people or like lgbtq+

[wild copper]

BI have said they won't enforce it

[calm swan]

Then RHS licensing doesnt mean shit. Nor does the "restrictions". You cannot choose to enforce one part of said licensing and not the other. Any choice to pick and choose which part of the said licensing that gets enforced and the other then does not, shows a direct bias on leniency towards certain parties, and targetting of any respective party that this, in turn then effects. Which is at this point, a WITCH HUNT.

[wild copper]

I mean that particular use case sure

[stuck panther]

At least nobody got muted through the whole situation, so that’s a win?

[timid fulcrum]

I agree with that

[south remnant]

oh theres still PLENTY of time to get muted

[timid fulcrum]

My point has been proven already, why would I need to go on

[novel sand]

Doesn't their license say they may enact upon the license terms as per their discretion which very much allows them to pick and choose who they feel are in breach of their EULA (as per their discretion). And the users of this mod has accepted the terms by downloading it.

[wild copper]

That's what I was about to say, they can absolutely choose to say your mods are no longer valid because of the fact that the license is APL-ND.

[novel sand]

It does not even need to be fair, they can discriminate as they wish, as per the license they have used, and users agree to.

[timid fulcrum]

They can, but they have to name specific users however when it comes to issuing bans from content usage

[wild copper]

No they don't

[novel sand]

They can just name servers, communities as an entity even if there are a multitude of servers that they deem i breach of their license.

[stuck panther]

The overarching issue here is that DarkGru was by name barred from utilizing a mod that by our own admittance we do not intend to use anymore; yet we were listed with two entities that directly violated the BI & RHS EULA and licensing by reskinning/profiteering off of RHS work. It isn’t an apples to apples listing, and to those who haven’t been around to see prior events that led to the listing it seems that DarkGru as a entity is just as fucked off as the other two. When that simply isn’t the case.

[novel sand]

There are no requirements to name individual persons here.

[wild copper]

They have grounds as per their license, and infringing mods + relevant information is given to BI who then take it down

[timid fulcrum]

Then the ban on "Darkgru" is moot because Darkgru is not an entity. Not legally. Darkgru is simply a community. Nobody pays to get in.

Unless they track and submit these issues regarding 13 thousand people

Which is alot of people to bar from content mind you

[zealous ore]

No depiction of ongoing wars
read please

[south remnant]

im gonna join in the peace negotiations so i can use rhs content quicker 🥰

[timid fulcrum]

Because saying that Darkgru is not allowed to use their content via EULA that would relate to anyone and everyone that is currently a member of our community

[calm swan]

still waiting.

[novel sand]

I think you are overthinking this whole "legal entity" thing a tad much. There is no requirement of any legal entity being the target of a restriction of use due to the license.

[timid fulcrum]

That's not the issue

[novel sand]

No it means anything hosted or used in official capacity by Darkgru as a community would be in breach of their license.

[swift halo]

oh drama drama once again?

[timid fulcrum]

Speaking from a legal standpoint it's whatever the user perceives, not the issuer, that's law friend, and an EULA is considered a legally binding document

[calm swan]

The restriction is on DarkGru, which is a community, So the restrictions is against the DarkGru servers, or the DarkGru community? Because GL barring 13.7k members from using RHS.

[calm swan]

Your mod, can and is currently used on multiple servers which aids in the depiction of current world conflicts, This breaches your license, correct? Because your mod is used directly aiding in depicting current world conflicts?

[zealous ore]

none whatsoever. i asked what sort of group or community

[novel sand]

If jimbob of Dankgru were to host a server with rhs that is not tied to or hosted under the dankgru unbrella that would technically not fall under that brea h of license if the RHS team had specified that Darkgru itself were not allowed to use their mod. In which case they would have to make a decision to bar that player, server or potential new group from using it on its own.

[swift halo]

having m4 in mod = breach
having ak in mod = breach
i guess vanilla m16a2 is also a breach?

[zealous ore]

please rephrase

[swift halo]

also i assume you have some secret documents about k17 (prototype) being used on war?

[timid fulcrum]

With the ambiguously worded EULA indeed

[swift halo]

dang. Should we ask bi to remove M16A2 and AK74?

[timid fulcrum]

Again, it's how the user perceives it, that's how contracts work, and an EULA is a contract

[calm swan]

Of course not. I totally get exactly why you needed to bring up the LGBTQ+ community has to do with anything in this thread.

[timid fulcrum]

Trying to ragebait me isn't going to work sweetheart, you are a funny one I'll give you that

[zealous ore]

this is precisely why i asked.

[swift halo]

yep, and whats the problem?

[swift halo]

i'm glad that i was able to entertain you

[timid fulcrum]

I truly appreciate it

[calm swan]

Your MOD in no alteration, is used in conjunction with another external to depict current world. this breaches your licensing?

[timid fulcrum]

Which would be covered when I said it pertains to a community

I'm glad I could finally clarify that for you

[lethal cape]

There's a large amount of servers using RHS to depict the Ukraine v Russia conflict. And they are growing in number*

Are we going to act on the infringement or is your liscense useless? Is what at it's core is being asked.

[zealous ore]

it is in relation to derivative content as i said once before

[calm swan]

https://tenor.com/view/haha-funny-laugh-baby-cute-gif-1231826826475224608

[lethal cape]

(pls act on the infringement Ukraine war brainrot is fucking r word)

[timid fulcrum]

I have a question, RHS is considered a mod development studio correct?

[zealous ore]

as i see it, it is a both a set of servers, a discord server (community) a mod group (pretty sure there aren't 13k mod makers) etc

i'll make sure to rephrase that to be more specific

[stuck panther]

Please do, specificity is important especially when dealing with license or user agreement disputes

[timid fulcrum]

But you see that's quite simply untrue, Darkgru is a self sufficient community, anyone in Darkgru can make mods if they please, the name on the servers is simply for navigation so people can play together, they arent on our own boxes, or hardware, so they are not "Darkgru" servers as you would say. There are people within the community that make mods for us, but no official mod studio, all of those are broad terms, designed to target the most people that you can

[lethal cape]

The issue here boils back down to that I personally am the guy who makes the mods. I've recently gotten a small team together but all mods on the DARKGRU server at this time are mods from me.

You just said you don't have an issue with me. So what's the issue?

Is the issue the server owner? Is it a previous member? What is the root cause of this hatred disagreement and overall tension?

Refusing to make any attempt to resolve the issue while saying "I have receipts and Bohemia knows" dog I've been here for 10 months. Nothing different than that has been said for almost a year

[timid fulcrum]

Scrolling through the RHS website would lead me to believe it's for traction as they have an entire section of the site dedicated to Servers where it clearly states "coming soon"

[lethal cape]

I don't care that you don't want us using your mod. I care that you keep saying "your bad and I have proof" without proving it.

[zealous ore]

you are creating tension. I have been as polite as i can be considering the specific situation.

[inland sphinx]

It is true. But you can still use the old version of the mod, according to the old terms. Cannot update the license for an old version, But you can update it from now going forwards

[lethal cape]

Crap take Pufu. You basically are screaming a racial profanity and blaming the race you instigated as the instigator

[zealous ore]

racial profanity? where?

[lethal cape]

If you have receipts for the things you claim. Cough them up so they can be fixed. What's the point of sitting on issues?

Stand on business.

You finally threw up an issue I can only imagine you've been sitting on for months with what I know about you and I just fixed it in 5 minutes.

[timid fulcrum]

It's funny you try to deflect by using things that are clear analogies and fixating on the content as if it's a claim

[calm swan]

Except for the homophobic analogy used by yourself. #other_ip_topics message

[lethal cape]

Why can't we do that with everything else? Is there even an everything else?

[timid fulcrum]

Note to self, RHS is the only group allowed to use analogies

[zealous ore]

my boy, i have not used any homophobic analogy

[patent oriole]

You literally just did

[south remnant]

"is it like people or like LGBTQ+" - pufu 2024

[calm swan]

#other_ip_topics message

[lethal cape]

Do you want a personalized apology letter for the mod I took down as well? What else do I personally need to do for you to start resolving issues?

[timid fulcrum]

Clearly it came across differently than you meant for it to Pufu

[zealous ore]

sure, i asked what sort of group it is. you should look up what homophobic is

[south remnant]

yeah i just did and found you xx

[timid fulcrum]

Stop trying to play games by taking others analogies literally, because it can just come right back around full circle

[lethal cape]

xoxo

[zealous ore]

i am not playing any games, i am trying to reply to several people here at the same time

[rugged prawn]

and they seem to pile on dont they

[lethal cape]

You can say I'm the cause of tension all you want but the receipts just say I took care of a problem you had. So I must be here to handle that.

Help me handle it.

[stuck panther]

Guys. Doing the back and forth game and throwing whataboutisms around is not going to solve anything. @zealous ore when you get a chance, please DM me any mods DarkGru as a entity uses or has created that are in violation of the RHS Eula and I will facilitate their removal on our end.

[zealous ore]

specific

[zealous ore]

these have been sent to BI legal long time ago

[timid fulcrum]

This shows me that RHS is a studio that I can't put my support behind, not as a Darkgru community member, but as a person, the smear campaign is one thing. But trying to dance around the root of the issue that has been questioned so that we have the ability to fix it is childish.

This is not a Studio I can put any faith in to be fair and unbiased. As we have already seen they will only take action against groups they dislike.

[lethal cape]

Then they must not have been legitimate otherwise I would have heard about it by now. So why are you standing on it? At this point it's a you thing. Not bohemia. So again what do I have to do to fix this with you?

[rugged prawn]

@zealous ore stop replying please, there is no point

[lethal cape]

Because obviously I don't have to fix anything with Bohemia or else I would have been informed

[south remnant]

you really overestimate the speed at which BI legal operates

[inland sphinx]

I will be forced to speak with BI legal regarding public slander.
This really has nothing to do with BI legal. Bohemia is not involved in an interaction between you/darkgru and RHS

[zealous ore]

why do you think i am standing on it? Not my monkey not my circus

[zealous ore]

noticed

[tepid lion]

Perfect outro to the argument

[lethal cape]

I do not. We reported a infringement on a server and the server was removed in 2 hours

[tepid lion]

https://open.spotify.com/track/18lR4BzEs7e3qzc0KVkTpU?si=Ffn0RJOSRIGSlkQu-elbbw

[timid fulcrum]

BI by extension of allowing that EULA to be updated on one of their products has become a vessel for Slander.

[south remnant]

can promise you that is the exception and not the rule

[timid fulcrum]

As no official legal claims have been made or served

[stuck panther]

And BI legal has not reached out to us. @rugged prawn or @zealous ore please see above, I want to rectify any issue and kill whatever bad blood is here at least from an infringement or misuse standpoint. I await a message from either of you and we can handle the situation like adults.

[lethal cape]

You're standing on it by the crap you added to your license claiming it was legitimate and the fact every time you and I speak you make a backhanded comment on it to me.

It's extremely obnoxious and I would love for it to stop.

[south remnant]

thats just how pufu is dawg

dont bother talking to them

[lethal cape]

Sad the community feels this way.

[south remnant]

i got muted by pufu for saying SW meant star wars not steam workshop in a conversation about star wars in here 🤣

[south remnant]

you dont want the arma community

go elsewhere

i cannot recommend it enough

[lethal cape]

I've been in worse

Arma is vanilla

The worst thing here is what's happening in this chat rn

[south remnant]

this is a standard monday

wait its sunday

this is a standard sunday

[tepid lion]

👉👈 does this make everyone feel better

[lethal cape]

I feel fantastic

[zealous ore]

1. you and ii don't really exchange DMs
2. i have already provided you with the very example of infringement made by your own self in the name of the mentioned group (which you seem to have taken down by now).

[lethal cape]

I'm getting fanmail in my dms

[lethal cape]

So is that the ONLY issue you had with me?

I'm not asking for examples. I'm asking for issues

[timid fulcrum]

I have lost all faith in the abilities of RHS to handle a situation properly.

Instead of giving us what we need to make the issue right they continue to beat around the bush and refuse to give specifics behind anything other than one mod. This is not a good look.

[swift halo]

bro we got you. we're really sorry for breaking your faith in us

[lethal cape]

You gave an issue. I fixed it. Give me another.

[zealous ore]

this discussion has run its course.

[lethal cape]

No Pufu it hasn't.

[timid fulcrum]

I appreciate that. Hopefully some people with a better moral compass join your team! I wish you guys nothing but the best

It's truly terrible to see such a revered studio stoop so low, I hope it gets better

[south remnant]

this is standard rhs shit

[lethal cape]

The conversation will continue indefinitely until shit like "the mod makers the problem" takes is resolved. You can't just say this conversation is over and walk away from something you started.

That's absolutely childish

[south remnant]

they'd have gone after the ace3 compats if they could

[lethal cape]

And you frankly should be ashamed.

[tepid lion]

https://tenor.com/view/eminem-lose-yourself-gif-4079927

[frigid zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/that-is-fire-casey-frey-thats-hot-thats-lit-smoking-hot-gif-19442664

[rugged prawn]

very nice

[lethal cape]

I'm over here asking what your issue is so we can resolve it yet you are still throwing that I'm the issue while claiming there is no issue

And all the receipts say you have an issue.

And you are public about it. This can't even be claimed as a non Arma issue when you have made it one.

[tepid lion]

Love you

[pearl sage]

bro actually showed emotion

[lethal cape]

"this discussion has run it's course" Absolutely childish.

[stuck panther]

So is a representative of RHS going to take me up on the offer to have a constructive conversation so I can ensure all complaints against a named entity can be received and rectified or no?

[south remnant]

5 bucks says RHS put their own public server up within the next 2 months

[lethal cape]

I'll take that action

60 days from today have my $5 ready for me

[rugged prawn]

no

[rugged prawn]

no

[timid fulcrum]

Don't lie

[stuck panther]

But why not? I’m making a legitimate offer to have dialogue to rectify whatever issue is here beyond the singular mod already removed. The word “receipts” implies multiple issues

[rugged prawn]

that was made in 2014 maybe?

[lethal cape]

Because hating on Darkgru is a pinnacle action for being recognized as a member of the Arma community

[rugged prawn]

arma 3 beginning times

[crimson garden]

Would that not violate their own license?

If, for example, they had US and RF units placed into a mission, would that not be re-creating modern conflict?

[timid fulcrum]

Well then that's pretty misleading isn't it? Similar to the EULA smearing other groups you've never reached out to?

My point is proven. Good day 🙂

[barren tartan]

They own their content. They can license to themselves under other terms.

[rugged prawn]

honestly don't care.

[calm swan]

This shows the childishness from RHS. You have the open channel to rectify any issues you have with said party, who are willing to cooperate and rectify the issues you have. By not doing so shows your direct hatred towards said named entity, and bias for others.

[idle field]

not sure why JTFM is blacklisted when we don’t use private mods anymore

[lethal cape]

I've never seen anything from you to imply you do.

[crimson garden]

I'm aware of the "legal" side, however it would be incredibly ironic

[south remnant]

btw pufu has warned me twice in the space of 5m inutes and named himself as BI staff just so you're all aware

[patent oriole]

Remember when people made mods for people to use

[rugged prawn]

no. the issue is the people. Cant rectify it, we can see it here first hand

[south remnant]

yeah thanks for the perfect demonstration rhs team

[lethal cape]

In order to rectify issues you have to first communicate what your issue is.

[crimson garden]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-principal-skinner-skinner-children-out-of-touch-gif-4463952

[lethal cape]

If you can't communicate what your issue is. It can't be rectified

So is the issue people or is it Pufu? Which is it?

[rugged prawn]

we have rectified it in our EULA

[timid fulcrum]

Get me some popcorn

[calm swan]

One issue you had was brought to our attention, and was rectified within minutes. This statement you just made is not true in the slightest and the message receipts in here prove just that. This is merely a direct attack against entites you do not like.

[lethal cape]

Dying laughing right now you haven't rectified shit. You have a baseless accusation

[stuck panther]

The issue is the people? How incredibly tone deaf.

[lethal cape]

That you acted upon and when we asked about it you can't tell us what the accusation is based in

[lime belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/brandon-herrera-cursed-gun-images-cursed-gun-ak-guy-brandon-gif-21617475

[lethal cape]

For the 20th time. Tell us what the issues are and we will fix it.
Shit man I even proved to you I'll fix it.

[inland sphinx]

Fishing out a website from 2015 https://web.archive.org/web/20150703222857/https://www.rhsmods.org/servers, cutting off the screenshot just before the reference that implies the page is for Arma 3, and using that cropped screenshot as proof to imply that someone else is lying. Is pretty misleading indeed.

[frigid zenith]

Same but I’m eating popcorn too

[lime belfry]

https://docs.rhsmods.org/rhs-status-quo-user-documentation/arma-reforger/rhs-status-quo/eula

[rugged prawn]

ahheey 2015 I was close

[stuck panther]

Oh of course just when I had faith an actual BI employee would have something constructive or a sense of moderation, that faith is crumpled up and thrown in the trash.. the bias is wild

[inland sphinx]

Shall I count that as defamation?
PuFu's last moderation action on you was in september 2022.

[stuck panther]

How’s relying on the mod community to keep your product alive going?

[inland sphinx]

That's atleast the first date the wayback machine archived it, probably been there sooner too

[lethal cape]

To be completely fair dedmen just found an issue in an argument and presented it.

The side it was on doesn't matter

[south remnant]

count it as poor communication from the bot and a low expectation of pufu as well as a warning lying outright as i have not said a word against anybody in BI

[lethal cape]

But I do know dedmen to be bias

[south remnant]

if moderators in this server are considered BI staff then just kick me already

[timid fulcrum]

Oh man, you got me! I took a screenshot of something that is public domain and cropped it. Just because a link leads to Arma 3 stats underneath has no meaning, for all I know it could be in relation to all Arma titles that RHS operates on. Scare tactics don't work on me friend

[calm swan]

You should have no bias here, being directly part of BI.

[timid fulcrum]

Buying into the RHS did nothing wrong sentiment isn't going to get you anywhere with me

[inland sphinx]

As a uninvolved third party.
Reading through the last ~400 messages.
I see a bunch of people trying to attack RHS. And I'm not even sure why, something EULA something slander but I didn't see anyone say what the actual problem is.

[lethal cape]

I don't care who sides with who. I want to know what these accusations against me are because they affect my standing in the community as a whole. I have too much dead weight attached to me due to my affiliations to be having Pufu transform from "I got your number" to putting it in a license and claiming it as factual when Bohemia themselves don't even claim it as factual

[lime belfry]

it aint no arma without the drama]

[south remnant]

RHS refusing to actually give them what the problem with their mods are and just playing smoke and mirrors is the issue

[lethal cape]

You can't even claim BI legal runs slow I watched them shut down a server in 2 hours from notice.

[inland sphinx]

And what is that supposed to tell me?

[timid fulcrum]

And misleading the people here to say it's archived is also "lying" @inland sphinx It's the first thing that popped up

So don't throw that at me

Thanks 🙂

[lime belfry]

not 100% true we sadly waited 6 months before something was done :/ and we had clear evidence

[inland sphinx]

as well as a warning lying outright as i have not said a word against anybody in BI
U sure about that?

[stuck panther]

Let’s all just shake hands and walk away, because the one-sidedness and preference is now in the open. GG’s 🤝🏿

[south remnant]

oh yeah

thats also true thouh

[lethal cape]

Sorry that happened to you man

[south remnant]

anyway its not archived

its pretty clearly there

https://www.rhsmods.org/servers

[timid fulcrum]

Who's lying Dedman?

[inland sphinx]

Indeed, I would think I have no bias.
But nice that everyone implies my position is just pure bias, just because its not on your side?

[south remnant]

https://www.rhsmods.org/servers if anyone needs to check

[lethal cape]

I don't believe your pure bias @inland sphinx

I believe you attack the argument that suits you

And also that you are a furry

[pure plover]

I think it’s stupid that rhs will go after a small milsim that has nun to do with rhs at the end of the day it’s just a game just cuz yall got power yall wanna hold it over peoples head that’s just bitch work in my opinion but I forget yall are key board princesses an stuff like that but there’s no need to attack small milsims that have nun too do with rhs

[lethal cape]

And also that your pfp makes me uncomfortable why isn't he wearing a shirt

[timid fulcrum]

I never once said you were biased, but trying to make a crop out to be a lie and saying it's an acrhived website when it clearly is not, is lying is it not @inland sphinx

[dark tulip]

I guess BI (employees and moderators) have a bias against those who break the rules 🤷

[inland sphinx]

How can accusations that no-one knows what they are, affect your standing?

[lethal cape]

No one's broken rules.

[south remnant]

one would argue RHS are the ones breaking the rules here by stirring it up and refusing to actually give any sustenance to this argument 🤷

[abstract crest]

Well PuFu's homophobic comment seems to be being ignored despite it breach of Rule 3

[lethal cape]

If anyone's broken rules dedmen would have muted them

[idle field]

exactly, they have 2000’s+ milsims in the palm of their hands because of nvg’s and other kit.

[pure plover]

An JTFM no longer has the mods in question they were taken off the work shop

[dark tulip]

So what's the whole discussion about then? 🤔

[timid fulcrum]

It's posted publicly for everyone to read, accusations publicly posted are considered slander as they have not been proven in the courts

[inland sphinx]

I said its archived, on archive.org. A website, that archives old versions of websites.
I never said something like "That website doesn't exist anymore" which I think is what you're implying

I even posted the link to literal archive.org right there.

[stuck panther]

Since we’ve awoken a few of yall on a Sunday, when’s the next update

[patent oriole]

They wont do anything to them because they are RHS

[south remnant]

i am aware

[calm swan]

The problem was, an entity has been restricted on a recent licensing change. This entity was not notified of any breaches. One respect of this breach was made known and rectified. One party is willing to rectify these issues if they are very much valid, the other has basically said GFYS. Because they have a directed hatred towards said entity. the same way a member from RHS who is also a Arma discord moderator, used a homophobic analogy to direct continued hate towards said community. "Are they like people, or LGBTQ+" was the direct comment. and you have failed to acknowledge this and deal with it. Crazy.

[patent oriole]

Literally no other modding community has these issues

Its a BI problem

because they allow it to happen

[stuck panther]

Haven’t seen this many green and blue names since launch

[timid fulcrum]

I'm seeing that now

[calm swan]

The BIAS is fucking crazy.

[lethal cape]

A few things man. You're really late and the TL:DR is long

[inland sphinx]

I never said that you said I was biased. I didn't talk specifically to you.

[timid fulcrum]

I'm just letting it be known so I don't get grouped into it

[abstract crest]

Blue Mafia rarely get punished here...

[scenic spruce]

How do I get my refund on this tech demo of a game that is now a full fledged title since I can’t use publicly available content

[inland sphinx]

I don't see how saying "LGBTQ" is homophobic.

[south remnant]

"people or LGBTQ+"

seriously?

[abstract crest]

Context

[lime belfry]

so what ?

[dark tulip]

All I see is the same thing as always... RHS took down a mod, people get salty and attack Pufu for nothing...

[lethal cape]

The overlooming issue is there is a claim from RHS darkgru broke rules that has no basis. They presented an issue unrelated to the rules darkgru fixed. They maintained their stance that DARKGRU breaks EULA

[inland sphinx]

Warnings come first, mute only happens when repeat warnings bring no change in behavior.
And a few warnings have been given in this exchange above

[timid fulcrum]

This wasn't about Pufu

[south remnant]

RHS, in fact, did not take down a mod. They brought it into public because they had no recourse and that is how this has started

[calm swan]

"ARE THEY PEOPLE, OR LIKE LGBTQ+". REPSECTFULLY, ARE YOU BLINDED TO RHS?

[lethal cape]

No one is attacking PUFU for nothing. pufu is making baseless claims and being asked to present evidence. Pufu also did not take down a mod. I took it down upon him asking. Nobody is upset it was taken down.

[timid fulcrum]

I asked a simple question about what we did and was met with refractions and deflections so that we could not rectify the situation

[stuck panther]

Please re-read or ask for a summarization

[lime belfry]

why does everyone always need to pull this lqbt bs in everything , just stfu about it

[lethal cape]

Pufu refuses to provide what he's upset about but continues to maintain he's upset.

[south remnant]

RHS team has shown absolutely 0 willingness to resolve the issues

[lime belfry]

nothing to do with anything here

[south remnant]

ask pufu 🤷

[stuck panther]

I’ve asked 3 times for a private conversation to rectify the issue and nothing happened.

[inland sphinx]

Ah this whole thing, is about this at the bottom of the RHS EULA?

[dark tulip]

I did, but deemed too long to TL;DR it

[inland sphinx]

Message steam support

[lethal cape]

There's a few things wrapped up in the conversation

But that was the start of it yes.

[timid fulcrum]

So 13 thousand members of Dark Raider Group are no longer allowed to use RHS?

[patent oriole]

Its clear af that it was ignored because it was meant to be that way, but nothing will happen

[timid fulcrum]

That's what I'm reading

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[south remnant]

correct

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[south remnant]

yep

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[south remnant]

that was only allowed after RHS asked

[midnight holly]

I think it’s pretty plain text our server here and not the community as a whole

[lethal cape]

No.

[lime belfry]

yes it not against TOS to limit your mod , if you have legitement reasons for it

[south remnant]

you dont need legimitate reasons for it

[lethal cape]

You can write it but actually enforcing it is another story

[south remnant]

you can make it against eula for everybody except dwarden to play your mod

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[lethal cape]

It's unlikely you'll be able to enforce this.

[south remnant]

yes

[stuck panther]

Such a slippery slope

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[patent oriole]

Ah yes, lets read 30 paragraps to use a mod in my game

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[calm swan]

Just washed over the homophobic part again I see. Crazy that a person who is actively a representation of Bohemia Interactive directly just disregards that issue.

[patent oriole]

that definetly wont kill future game installments

[south remnant]

correct

[timid fulcrum]

"Dark Raider Group/DARKGRU server(s) and it's mod group"

[south remnant]

this isnt the first time BI have endorsed homophobic content creators lol

[timid fulcrum]

Dark Raider Group is the community

[lime belfry]

bruh just stfu about it

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[calm swan]

[lethal cape]

Yes but RHS doesn't feel that way.

[south remnant]

that's how BI marketed it, yep

[midnight holly]

yes that’s very plain text, we as a server / milsim group cannot use their mod nor use it for the sake of dependency

[stuck panther]

One would think.

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[patent oriole]

Not in arma pall

[lethal cape]

Neat

[dire tapir]

Need it

[calm swan]

🔥

[stuck panther]

But then again if there were no workshop this product would have been dead long ago

[lethal cape]

Now back to arguing

[midnight holly]

it’s all over the screen 💔💔💔😭

[tepid lion]

just casually modding while watching this

[inland sphinx]

Causing outrage with a dozen people all at the same time in a public channel like this punching down onto RHS, might not be the best way to answer a question.

[patent oriole]

nobody is punching down on RHS

[south remnant]

RHS were the ones who brought it into public

[patent oriole]

Bro made a homophobic comment

[south remnant]

and refused to take it to dms

[timid fulcrum]

It's about how it's perceived, the text indicates that the community, the servers, and the modders, not the community servers and the modders

[patent oriole]

and didnt acknowledge any questions

[celest sundial]

What a kindergarten ... anyway the topic of downstream restrictions, what works, what does not, and how pointless they are (because hardly enforceable at all) will get some official comms soon.

[inland sphinx]

It specifically says DarkGRU "servers" and its "modgroup"

So I read it as "servers" and "modding group under the label of DarkGRU".
Not members of the community

[stuck panther]

I made multiple offers to take this private and actually handle the situation and was shrugged off

At this point it is what it is

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[patent oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-gif-19260546

[lethal cape]

Almost as cringe as the FBI coming to the conclusion 70% of the furry community are groomers and diddlers

[rugged prawn]

thats quite an acusation, any proof?

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[timid fulcrum]

Dark Raider Group / continues to keep it ambiguous enough to be blanket enforceable against anyone in our discord should they see fit

[patent oriole]

gives criticism
Warned

[stuck panther]

Got proof:posts proof

[patent oriole]

all hail BI

[rugged prawn]

haha nice

[lethal cape]

I love you

I'm saving this

[inland sphinx]

I am indeed, brushing over you willfully trying to misinterpret what he said to put it into a bad context.

[shy tusk]

Thank you

[frigid zenith]

I was going to say something but didn’t want the boot from the discord so I jus kept my mouth shut.

[south remnant]

multiple people interpreting something as being homophobic (which it is, go google grice's maxims if you're not sure) and absolutely ZERO apology about something being able to be misinterpreted like that from a moderator is frankly ridiculous

and is consistent with pufu's string of childish behaviour

[patent oriole]

Im gay and took it as a homophobic comment

[south remnant]

^

[lethal cape]

As hard as it may be to claim myself as someone who doesn't hate pufu and watch him fail I do agree I found his LGBTQ analogy in poor taste.

He could have used any group other than the gay

[timid fulcrum]

As did I

[lime belfry]

no drama no arma ....

[patent oriole]

Idk how it was interpreting it something other then calrifying that people and LGBT are different

[lethal cape]

Community

[inland sphinx]

You were not warned for asking questions.
You were warned for spewing offtopic garbage. Mister "I like cheese"

[calm swan]

Dude. Everyone here saw and interpreted it exactly how he meant it.

[south remnant]

is it like people or like LGBTQ+ or implies that they are not selfsame

[timid fulcrum]

That my friend is textbook marginalization and dehumanization but we'll leave that alone in fear of getting in trouble

[south remnant]

you dont need a linguistics degree to see that nor does it need to be your first language

[patent oriole]

He also highlighted both parties seperately

[inland sphinx]

"I like cheese" is not criticism..

[dire tapir]

Honestly brining it up it’s already beating the topic like a dead horse what are y’all trying to achieve cuz brining it up multiple times won’t do anything

[lethal cape]

Today Pufu did adjusts glasses genocide against gay people

[carmine sable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[inland sphinx]

multiple people intentionally trying to negatively misinterpret what was said, is ridiculous and childish

[lime belfry]

you all just make it to benifit yourself , just drop it ffs

[south remnant]

that is not even slightly a misinterpretation

it is plain english

[calm swan]

NO. It was interpreted exactly how he meant it

[south remnant]

one group OR the other is implying that they are not selfsame

[inland sphinx]

That is true.
But why is "using other groups" fine and okey, but using that specific group is somehow forbidden and must be punished just for them being named?

[calm swan]

That english language. in black and white

[south remnant]

regardless of intent, its interpretation is what matters -- of which he is acutely aware and (as expected) is showing zero expectation of resolving the issue

[patent oriole]

There was no comments about it

Why was it even put there

lol

[timid fulcrum]

Now not only is RHS in the spotlight for unwillingness to allow rectification, but official Arma discord moderators are willingly brushing off remarks made in poor taste against a community that is already marginalized. Wow, just wow.

[lime belfry]

because as long as it benefits them other people cant say it but if it show the truth to them they get mad....

[midnight holly]

idk regardless I feel like to avoid future misinterpretations or misunderstanding an analogy like that probably isn’t the best to support what you’re trying to compare lol

[south remnant]

not to forget the A3 comrad endorsing transphobic mod authors 😍

[calm swan]

Bruh not even their discord moderator. He is a direct employee of BI.

[stuck panther]

There was no need with any context to mention LGTBQ+. He did it to be edgy and is being called out for it. But thank you for setting the precedent.

[inland sphinx]

It was not. PuFu specified internally how he meant it, and it is exactly how I understood it.
You just refuse to see anything other than you want to see

[timid fulcrum]

My goodness

[inland sphinx]

You just want to see a guy that you currently dislike, get punished

[stuck panther]

Of course it was “internally” discussed

[south remnant]

what's preventing him clarifying that publicly and saying sorry..?

seriously man

not good enough

[abstract crest]

Did they specify here how they meant it?

[south remnant]

he did not

[patent oriole]

He literally just ignored him saying it

[lethal cape]

Wild question coming from a furry.

[calm swan]

[south remnant]

literally every single person here would drop it on clarification and an apology

[abstract crest]

Blue mafia just doing blue mafia things...

[patent oriole]

The message could have been edited to further clarify the analogy but it wasnt

its clear what hes standing on

[calm swan]

What a bag of lies. Everyone saw it clean in black and white dog, IDK what to tell you.

[timid fulcrum]

That's not the case, from an unbiased standpoint you can clearly see the intent to use the LGBTQ+ community as an example of a group of people outside of "people" as he highlighted both groups separately, respectfully open your eyes

[inland sphinx]

True it was maybe a badly choosen example. Maybe should've chosen "climate change deniers" or "ACDC fans" instead as example of a group.
But that doesn't change the fact that it was simply an example of a group of people

[lethal cape]

Because asking "is it like people or like PETA" is an insanely different question that doesn't compare people to a minority that was discriminated against and killed for years

[frigid zenith]

Don’t hate on cheese it’s good stuff 😭

[barren tartan]

Apologies are culturally dependent. Some cultures you apologize for something if it hurts others. Some you only do it if you intended to hurt others and realized that was a mistake.

[timid fulcrum]

Being highlighted as not people because they were clearly separated from his statement being people and LGBTQ+

[inland sphinx]

No and I don't understand why there is any need for it. It clearly was not meant in a negative sense.
And you I'd prefer that people would assume that a seasoned moderator would never say such a thing with engative intentions

[south remnant]

i refer back to here

[calm swan]

Yeah fucking wild. Of course hes going to tuck his tail between his legs and hide behind it 💀

[stuck panther]

So why can’t we get the same here? If he felt the need to clarify internally then it’s obvious it could and would be misconstrued

[lethal cape]

"I didn't mean n word like that I was saying it as a broad identifier for undesirable criminals"

Same statement

[south remnant]

pufu has a reputation

[abstract crest]

Er... there is some history here...

[novel sand]

Darkgru & co working really hard to be disliked here.

Pufus comment pertaining the use of LGBTQ+ might have not been the most tasteful, but it is far from being homophobic, and accusing him of that intention is senseless and not the least irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[lethal cape]

Dislike me

Hit the dislike button

[calm swan]

Oh here is the homophobic man himself

[timid fulcrum]

It started with deflections and redirections on the end of RHS, simply put, we can't work with people who refuse to work with us, clear cut and dry

[inland sphinx]

Yeah would probably be beneficial if @zealous ore would edit it to clarify.

But would any of the people raging against it, care? They would just use it as further food for their narrative. "Hah! he's trying to hide it!"

[south remnant]

i would

[midnight holly]

is the vehicle supposed to do this or did it just feel quirky this morning

[inland sphinx]

I see it as two groups, people and LGBTQ.
From an unbiased standpoint.

[lethal cape]

I actually don't care if Pufu hates gay people or not.

[stuck panther]

Tbh it would kill that situation entirely. Weather

[lethal cape]

That's between him and his gay neighbor

[tepid lion]

yes

[timid fulcrum]

That wording is terrible

[stuck panther]

Ffs please edit this…

[timid fulcrum]

I apologize truly if it isn't meant to come across that way

[calm swan]

Everyone saw him differentiating between two groups 😂 💀

[zealous ore]

precisely why i haven’t, because it was not and by no means meant to be homophobic in any way sort or form

[south remnant]

there

[lethal cape]

Too late

[south remnant]

problem solved

now say sorry

[midnight holly]

ez

[zealous ore]

i will edit it for clarity

[novel sand]

Ok, get over it. Go on about your life, you said you got like 13k users, you seem to be doing fine, even admitting to not intending to use RHS anyway, so I honestly don't see why you are so worked up. You got an answer pertaining to who or what is restricted in the use of RHS

[inland sphinx]

Everyone wanted to see it.
Everyone is desperately grasping for everything they can grab to have something against the person they don't like.

[stuck panther]

Thank you.

[lethal cape]

@inland sphinx Did you give me a warning for stating that you are a furry?

[timid fulcrum]

The problem is that the EULA is publicly available and slandering people for things not proven in a court of law

[calm swan]

No we did not. We was given one instance of such. And then was told to basically GFYS when we opened a dialog to rectify any more they may have.

[lethal cape]

The guy with the furry PFP gave me a warning for stating he is a furry

That's crazy lmao

[inland sphinx]

You have received a warning regarding #rules number 3

3. Zero tolerance policy regarding offensive behavior,
   this includes: harassment, name calling, racism, sexism, homophobia, derogatory remarks, directed or excessive profanity, vulgarities and insults.

[midnight holly]

is it not an observation tho

[stuck panther]

So where is your warning for differentiation between people and LGBTQ+

[inland sphinx]

This is a EULA, of a handful of free-time modders for a video game. There is no court of law here..

[lethal cape]

What insults?

[zealous ore]

i’m sorry i wasn’t more cleared and some of you took it personally despite having no relation to a homophobic remark or intention of separation between people and lgbtq+

[dire tapir]

Calling someone what they are if facts

[tepid lion]

how is that offensive

[south remnant]

there

that wasnt so difficult

[stuck panther]

Nah they def ain’t free

[south remnant]

problems olved

[dire tapir]

It’s like Somone calling me a Mexican

[lethal cape]

I have three father's and I myself date trans individuals

[dire tapir]

It’s what I am

[inland sphinx]

Never said there was an insult, and the warning didn't either.

[lethal cape]

I do in fact have relation to your comments

[tepid lion]

im canadian should my pfp be offensive to state if it was a maple leaf

[scenic spruce]

So if I call you a dummy I violate the rule?

[lethal cape]

So you just warned me for no reason?

[inland sphinx]

Never said it is offensive.

[tepid lion]

then why warn him

[patent oriole]

c*nadian

[dire tapir]

What under rule 3 did he need

[inland sphinx]

Yes, twice the rule 3 then, name-calling and insult

[midnight holly]

noting this down

[tepid lion]

discord mod

[lethal cape]

So I got warned for no reason I guess. Neat.

[calm swan]

Thank you for being an adult. Can you now, as an adult, work with the community you have issues with mods with so we can ensure these are rectified and or deleted without any issues. This could have been easily resolved by doing this in the first place.

[dire tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/typing-flint-lockwood-busy-working-cloudy-with-a-chance-of-meatballs-gif-17006263

[inland sphinx]

"name calling"

[inland sphinx]

the reason was stated in your warning

[dire tapir]

Name calling ???

[tepid lion]

thats not name calling lmao

[stuck panther]

It’s not name calling, it’s identifying based upon context

[calm swan]

REACHING. WILD.

[lethal cape]

Stating you are a furry when you are a furry is not name calling.

[inland sphinx]

I am not a furry

[south remnant]

he is not

friend drew dedmen that pfp

[lethal cape]

Then why do you have a furry PFP

Jesus Christ

[tepid lion]

also how is saying furry offensive

[midnight holly]

same reason I had my other pfps

why not

[tepid lion]

sosa youre my dog

[lethal cape]

So rather than clarifying that you warn me lmao

[dire tapir]

This drama crazy tbh

[lethal cape]

I wasnt even calling you a name I said "I think you are a furry"

[novel sand]

You are overthinking it if you find it as slander. It does nothing short of frankly stating you broke their EULA, there is no slander to that. You might not like it, but it is far from slander. And per their terms, they reserve the right to disclose why they find you in breach, if they decide to.

The point being is that you will not get anything from this pointless discussion. RHS has taken their stance, you have yours. You will not get any satisfying answer and RHS are not obliged to give you anything beyond what they have already.

[dire tapir]

Go out side talk with men or women smh

[inland sphinx]

A friend of mine drew it.
And I like to keep it because it tends to trigger people who cannot hold back, who will then randomly attack and insult me for something they think that isn't actually true.
So I can warn/ban these kinds of people, before they attack others

[tepid lion]

too far

[abstract crest]

Wait, PFPs are related to real life? I hearby declare that I identify as an M60 gunner 😉

[tepid lion]

thats warn entrapment lol

[stuck panther]

Typical E-boy rage bait

Here for it, well played

[lethal cape]

All I did was say I think you are a furry 😭

[midnight holly]

alr doing both see you later

[south remnant]

dedmen like me is a master baiter

[inland sphinx]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/107740897562636288/1277316079638806528/Discord_2024-08-25_19-17-58.png?ex=66ccb8cc&is=66cb674c&hm=05b27d141e6b7dc91eef06e37da37fb85b12c185a59c7448644398f280c5658c&

[lethal cape]

Wait

[dire tapir]

There you go this man knows how to have a social life off of discord

[lethal cape]

You're right I did say that

I'll take my warning peacefully from here on out

[inland sphinx]

As I said above. #other_ip_topics message
Some times its PuFu, sometimes its me.. but in the end all the same. I'd wish people would spend their time on better things

[scenic spruce]

Damn that’s crazy

[tepid lion]

https://tenor.com/view/back-back-to-it-censored-walking-dead-gif-6015816945416403231

[lethal cape]

Your pfp still makes me extremely uncomfortable

[scenic spruce]

No better than the ragebaiters themselves smh

[dire tapir]

Not glen 🥺

[lethal cape]

Can your friend please draw a shirt on him

[dire tapir]

What he dooooooo

I think I have the best pfp

[shy tusk]

Real

[dire tapir]

Chad doing Chad things

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[stuck panther]

I see it as two groups, people and furries

From a unbiased standpoint

[calm swan]

I beg you get a warning for that 💀

[abstract crest]

Anywhoo, got games to play... Happily this is another reason to completely ignore Reforger... what a shit show...

[stuck panther]

On a serious note, @inland sphinx Is there any facilitation you can do regarding a conversation between myself and a RHS representative so I can ensure that any other content under the DarkGru umbrella that is a violation of their EULA is removed? I’ve tried asking direct to RHS representatives and am hitting a wall.

[lime belfry]

its just funny to me how they hate on everyone and insult everyone but once a person say anything they dont like all hell breaks lose and the inner karen comes out

[inland sphinx]

Well PuFu would be the main one to talk to.
If he is uncooperative, then trying other RHS people like SoulAssassin could work. But if all of RHS team is blocking you off, then I guess there's not much you can do.
It could help to let it cool down a bit and then try again.

If you are the "good guy" in the middle of a big group of people throwing shit at them, you will just get mixed into the "bad" people.

Like a bunch of stick wielding masked guys running towards a police blockade, and in the middle is you, wanting to ask where the toilet is. You'll likely get pepper sprayed.

[tepid lion]

Srg^

Lol

[stuck panther]

Tried both, got brushed off. Thank you for the insight.

[lime belfry]

new arma dlc ? rise of the karens

[dire tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/beating-dead-horse-southpark-gif-4547276

[dire tapir]

Next new update

[calm swan]

So if they all refuse to cooperate were does that leave us with BI enforcement? The hand was offered by DarkGru to cooperate and resolve any issues that violated their eula. So where does that stand with BI enforcement?

[stuck panther]

Put it on the roadmap 💀

[inland sphinx]

BI is not really involved in this. Its between RHS and the other party, not sure if that'd be you or someone else.

RHS can choose to deny DarkGru's ability to use the mod. Whether they have a valid reason to do so is irrelevant.

[stuck panther]

It was stated that BI legal was given all evidence regarding other infringement on behalf of the group we represent

[dire tapir]

New Arma reforager faction the Karens

[calm swan]

So to which, nothing in regards to this is/cannot be enforced by BI legal?

[inland sphinx]

I don't know what the "other infringement" is about

I think above there it was implied that there are violations against Reforger's EULA. I do not know which violations or what that's about

[lethal cape]

Arky came out and pretty much said enforcement is basically impossible. I'm not concerned.

[coral juniper]

From our side, if you violate the license of the author then we will only act on it. How you resolve dowstream restriction is up to you and the author

[inland sphinx]

If BI had something to enforce, they would contact you about it

[abstract crest]

So Reforger Workshop policy is that you can restrict the use of your mod for any reason? Just asking for clarity

[stuck panther]

That was the hinge that all this broke loose from. PuFu stated that BI legal was given multiple examples of our violation of their EULA and we haven’t heard anything

[lethal cape]

This is exactly my point

[coral juniper]

We will not help in any of that, only in unblocking your mod if the author is fine with it. Or if you remove offending content

That is it

[inland sphinx]

If content is made available under a specific license, you'll have to follow that license.

[lethal cape]

I don't understand why pufu continues to label me as a scoundrel if Bohemia hasn't found an issue. I literally haven't done the things he frequently alludes to

And this entire ordeal is an outright slander campaign

[stuck panther]

Can’t wait to see authors blocking everyone except the high tier groups with the most exposure for their content with the precedent that has been set

[novel sand]

Yes, if that is the term of the license that you, as a user, agree to by using/downloading the mod.

[scenic spruce]

If they block you how would you know what the content is, since you wouldn’t tell the offending part? Am I understanding this correctly?

[coral juniper]

We do tell

[lethal cape]

I want to fix RHS's issues with us because when we have issues we can't do it alone. We've already seen first hand and gotten it from Bohemia that they won't help with much unless it's extremely direct

[coral juniper]

I almost always contect the person in discord

Otherwise the email

[timid fulcrum]

The problem is if a contract that is made is in any violation of someone's rights that clause in the contract is void

[inland sphinx]

If what they say is untrue, it would be slander. And if it were, that would be between you and RHS. And not involve us (be it discord moderators or BI)

[lethal cape]

So I don't get where these accusations that pufu refuses to release comes from

[timid fulcrum]

I'm not saying it's a rights issue I'm just putting that out there

[coral juniper]

But some people do not check the emails and there is no way for me to get a discord contact even

[lethal cape]

The items that pufu alludes to are between me and Bohemia.

[scenic spruce]

Damn that’s crazy when pufu is a moderator for you?????

[barren tartan]

Isn't it just

• Making disallowed derivative content and put in on workshop - an issue with BI legal (DMCA)
• Someone downloading it from the workshop and then using it while not allowed to = an EULA issue BI is not involved in
  ?

[scenic spruce]

Gotcha misunderstood

[lethal cape]

Bohemia has not enacted on any of it meaning they must have been baseless yet they influence issues between darkgru and RHS

[novel sand]

You do not have any rights to their custom content. I don't understand where this livid idea of some sort of civil rights come from? These rules are within Bohemia and the mod creators domain, not any country's laws or rights.

[inland sphinx]

Being a moderator means he is forbidden from having a private life? The RHS teams statements, have no relation with PuFu's moderator role on here.

[stuck panther]

Is there recourse when the slander is coming from a moderator for this discord? It’s a direct COI that we are told it’s between us and RHS and BI has nothing to do with it but it’s said from someone that BI has given agency to

[timid fulcrum]

If the EULA is uploaded using content on your software and is publicly available and is untrue that makes you an accessory to slander as you have now been notified of it

[lethal cape]

At the end of the day I don't truly care what pufu thinks of me. But RHS's baseless disposition is an issue for me on the grander scale and I need it resolved

[coral juniper]

Moderators of the discord are community members that decided to help keeping the discord civil and rules to be followed

They are not BI employees

[inland sphinx]

Unless, the items that he alludes to don't even exist. Do you know that they do, besides his statements?

[coral juniper]

and are not tied to anything workshop related

[stuck panther]

So what is the recourse for the slander by an agent of BI

[coral juniper]

Which BI employee targeted you?

[calm swan]

This is exactly why we asked the question. We was given one example after asking and asking for such, which we removed, now we know that under the original EULA they had at the time this was made, we was perfectly within the legal side to carry on using.

[timid fulcrum]

You clearly did not read my message underneath when I said it's not a rights issue, but any contract deemed "enforceable" falls under legalities whether you like it or not, I understand it's custom content and they have the rights to it, hence why I said "I'm just putting that out there" the slander is publicly saying we infringed upon their rights, which is not proven in court and so, is a violation of rights

[inland sphinx]

Something something EU law, something file hoster service provider something something.
I cannot cite you the specific laws. But no, BI is not involved in what RHS writes on their website

[stuck panther]

Pufu; who is a agent of BI within the discord as he has been given the ability to mute/kick/ban others here in the same capacity as say yourself

[coral juniper]

He is not an agent of BI

Nor an employee

[timid fulcrum]

When operating in multiple regions those regional laws apply to the company operating that service within that region does it not?

[coral juniper]

And where did he slander?

[novel sand]

There are no court of laws pertaining to the license of mods here. There will be no court rulings or lawyers. They do not need to prove you guilty of anything, that is the term of the license you have accepted by using the mod.

[timid fulcrum]

Again you misunderstand my point, but that is okay

Slander is illegal regardless

[inland sphinx]

I so hate this viewpoint that just because you are a moderator, or a BI employee. That automatically means any personal statement or opinion you have, is interpreted as boing said as authority of your moderator role or the company you work for.
Somehow, being part of an official group, means you're not able to make personal statements that are not part of the group...

[coral juniper]

Depends on country

[novel sand]

You are failing to make any point in your continuous reference to rights and courts of law.

[stuck panther]

The fact that the head administration of this discord are BI employees means that any moderators have been given agency by the head administrators to carry out moderation/administration.

[timid fulcrum]

Does BI not offer services in Canada and the US as well as various other countries including their own?

[inland sphinx]

Indeed. In his moderator role.
That applies to moderation actions he takes.

But not to personal statements, outside of his moderation role

[stuck panther]

So if a moderator flew off the rails and went on a rage fueled rant, there wouldn’t be damage control on your end?

[abstract crest]

I believe they are saying that this bit of the EULA (that claims infringements of BI rules too) is slander. Haven't got a clue myself: `Due to repeated infringements of the existing Red Hammer Studios EULA and/or Bohemia's Interactive Terms of Service, the following groups/persons are STRICTLY PROHIBITED from using RHS mods and creating any derivative content based on RHS Status Quo or any other past, present, or future RHS mods:

Dark Raider Group / DarkGRU server(s) and its modgroup`

[inland sphinx]

If the rage fueled rant violated the #rules, it would be handled like other rule violators

[abstract crest]

Only BI can verify whether they violated BI's rules ofc

[stuck panther]

The key word is “repeated”. We were notified of one single instance

[timid fulcrum]

You are failing to see the point, which again is fine

[stuck panther]

And the instance was rectified

[timid fulcrum]

And that was today mind you

[inland sphinx]

Maybe all the issues are fixed now then, and RHS team just didn't find the time to update their EULA for it yet?

[novel sand]

Ok so explain to me, cause i really seem to (like most people here do) fail to see your point.

[calm swan]

When in this capacity, The official Arma discord, yourself, and any of your fellow BI staff and or moderators here are working directly as a representative of Arma and its makers. That is exactly what it is. Thats why its impactful with what you say.

[timid fulcrum]

No, he clearly stated that he would update it (and has) to be more clear who within our community is banned, and changed a little bit of wording to still be broad and ambiguous

[calm swan]

One instance, is not reapeated. And Pufu stated we specifically infringed multiple times.

[inland sphinx]

Yeah and I hate that.
If I say something with this account, its very bad.
If I make a second account, without the green color, and say the same thing then its fine.

Why can't the world just be easier.

[stuck panther]

It’s the duality, and why this new tangent is being gone down.

[inland sphinx]

Just know that continuing this exchange here, will not bring you closer to finding what else there might be.

[coral juniper]

They are not official representatives

Only a few are

[calm swan]

I fully get where you are coming from, and totally agree with you, and I would recommend doing as such, because your account here is directly linked with your work for BI, and as such is a representative account.

[coral juniper]

Otherwise treat them as other members of the community and that is it

[stuck panther]

We attempted to rectify directly with RHS, got told get with BI, and then were told by a BI rep that it’s between us and RHS. So what is the recourse?

[timid fulcrum]

We agreed to EULA by using their content

They updated EULA and we haven't used their content in about 4 months.

That statement is slanderous in saying that we have broken BI TOS and or their EULA when we used their stuff previously on a previous version of the EULA.

We have not broken any EULA for RHS in a minimum of 4 months if we have because we haven't used their content

[inland sphinx]

There might very well be no recourse. That is possible.

[calm swan]

It seems like nothing will, even tho we have and still are willing to assist with any issues that are there, if any. This in turn, if anything stated by RHS is true, is now going to waste a whole lot of BI employees time having to do paperwork/enforcement when it could have easily been done without dragging you guys into it. But hey, it keep you in a job right

[coral juniper]

If it was me, nillers, dwarden, etc saying something then that is a different story

[stuck panther]

So the slanderous comment of us repeatedly breaking their EULA and listing by name that we are barred from using a mod would stay?

[inland sphinx]

That is possible.
They can write on their website whatever they want to write really.

[wild copper]

This is the best summary of the whole situation and is the only thing worth replying to in the last 30 messages

[inland sphinx]

I would recommend to RHS to change

Due to repeated infringements of the existing Red Hammer Studios EULA and/or Bohemia's Interactive Terms of Service
to
Due to repeated infringements of the existing Red Hammer Studios EULA and/or Bohemia's Interactive Terms of Service and/or other reasons
That way not implying that everyone on the list infringed the EULA or ToS.

[abstract crest]

True, though Discord themselves say: "Moderators are direct representatives of your community and as such should be a reflection of what an ideal community member looks like"

[coral juniper]

Community, but not company

[stuck panther]

They are still given agency to act on authority given by BI within this discord

[coral juniper]

They can not ban mods, if that is what you think

[inland sphinx]

"act" being a handful of specific things

[stuck panther]

No not in the slightest

[timid fulcrum]

The problem remains nobody from BI can confirm we have broken TOS, so are you on an official capacity giving them permission to make unproven claims against us?

[coral juniper]

Which one was your mod?

[coral juniper]

But you can't get banned by just claims

[timid fulcrum]

I personally have no mods, the mod they provided as "evidence" which was immediately taken down once brought to us (today) was a mod to make their NVG's compatible with helmets, giving them full credit, and not charging anyone money or anything

[coral juniper]

There has to be proof

[lethal cape]

The items Pufu continues to allude to is that I take payment to make Mods.

The mod I removed was clearly a cop out as RHS has no issue with people pillaging their mods. All I did was put their nvg slot on a helmet. Didn't even touch their stuff.

[lethal cape]

But he won't directly say this. He just continuously alludes to breaking of Bohemia EULA/TOW

[timid fulcrum]

I'm not worried about bans because we've done nothing to warrant one, I'm concerned that RHS is using a public platform to try and slander a group of people with baseless accusations and making a statement on your behalf

[wild copper]

Is RHS being under APL-ND and "tolerating" mods but then changing their minds (relatively subjectively) grounds for a claim though?

[tepid lion]

Can we just hold a community vote to just remove APL-ND and bring back Creative Commons

This is getting dumb

This is not the way to A4