they dont use m24a1 , thats US army ha
#offtopic_weapons
merry pendant
merry pendant
they use m40a6
main spade
that aint a thing lol
main spade
nvm
merry pendant
they before used m40a5s
but all of these will be replaced by latest mk13s - most likely
merry pendant
i think you will see those m40s sooner in rhs probably
fresh fulcrum
I'm making a Mk13, but not a Mod7
tender compass
oof... must resist being hyped...
drowsy fox
The more oiled/lubed the gun, the more prone it is it jam with sand?
Does having a dry gun help with sand?
It must depend on the gun, rite?
merry pendant
depends on oil/lube and on the gun yes
most guns run fine dry but some need oil to function or over time
drowsy fox
And when Sandy condition s come in play, would you rather have a drier gun?
merry pendant
if i had an AK then yes with AR15 thats little ehh - because regular one needs oil for the bolt carrier
vagrant hull
In combat situations and long-term exercises, weapons are cleaned daily - during periods of calm of the battle and during breaks in the exercises. If the weapon is not used, then cleaning and lubrication without disassembly is recommended at least once in seven days, in hot and dry climate - after 2 to 4 days.
recommendations ^ (not requirements) for the 90% of Russian made weapons, except some special variants, like vss/as/sniper rifles...etc...
main spade
A few different channels have tested AR's and AKs in sand and dirt and water and all that jazz and the oil didn't seem to be a major factor. Actually the thing that surprised me the most is that the tight fitting of the AR is what helped it keep running, there simply isn't a lot of space for it to get gummed up. I think it was the Military Arms Channel one that was most informative. They do tests on a lot of hand guns through "the gauntlet" where they effectively wash the oil away and then use the gun so it very quickly ends up in a failure state with mud and sand and water and little in the way of oil. Some guns still run, others just don't.
obtuse sonnet
I tried avoiding putting CLP on my M16A4 in the sandbox, but then again I wasn't throwing it in the sand and kicking it around like a madman. My rifle would always jam while going condition 1 though, but riding in convoys all the time with all the dust it was a no win situation.
merry pendant
well thats what the dustcover is for ๐ , as i seen almost nobody uses that thing xD
obtuse sonnet
Yea, we always used that. After going condition 1 close the dust cover and mount up. The sand was a fine powder though and was notorious for getting everywhere.
merry pendant
m40a6 is m40 in remington chassis - yes its similiar
analog moon
oh
analog moon
AM-17? Woah. That assault rifle looks fancy
merry pendant
yeah , that design makes more sense today than before - so its good they modernize the old unused designs
analog moon
I really like that when you took such an old design and just make it more ergonomic and just... better looking
AK-12 looked really well aswell imo
merry pendant
true
analog moon
How to make a modern weapon:
- make it ergonomic
- make it ambidexterous
- give it a folding or telescopic stock
- picantinni rails, LOTS OF EM
That is what most armorers do nowadays
lol
merry pendant
rails only on top - sides , should use some removeable rails or mlok
analog moon
yeh
Remember that old game...
Black?
In that game... every goddamn weapon had rails
sometimes...
too much rails
merry pendant
well yes heh , it was a great game tho
analog moon
yeah
Why are there no games like this nowadays?
Nowadays, weapons in most games just are some recoilless toys with 100% accuracy when aiming down sights
analog moon
FEAR had some of the best gunplay imo
merry pendant
it did but very underated
analog moon
The gun sounds were surely kinda unrealistic, but they were powerful. The enemies were not bulletspongy and every weapon just had that kick
the shotgun gibbing was a bit overexaggerated at times, but it was satisfying indeed
Out of all weapons you have played, which one had the best gunplay in your opinion?
merry pendant
hmm good question - i liked black , fear and possibly Bad Company 2 in MP and ofc Red Orchestra
analog moon
I really liked the gunplay in Underhell, especially how you could just procedurally gib enemies
Bad Company 2 had really nice gunplay, I agree
merry pendant
in BC2 i really liked the sounds of war , really good - you could hear empty bullets falling etc all the details ha
analog moon
the sound design was ๐
earnest zephyr
Red orchestra 1 had the best gunplay of all games I've played
analog moon
Never played Red Orchestra
but I definitely wanna try it
Insurgency had quite good gunplay aswell
especially the recoil. It was done just right
drowsy fox
RO2 is more restrictive afaik
jovial hearth
some Modder needs to make a .300 Blackout PDW of some kind in ArmA3. w/ suppressor to make it uber quiet.
elder dust
Already exists. Check out Toadie's AR-15 pack @jovial hearth
jovial hearth
Thanks man.
vagrant hull
Oops! That page canโt be found. ^
jovial hearth
Looks like Galil ACE, SCAR and ACR all genetically mixed together...
merry pendant
well a mix of things ๐
vagrant hull
you guys just don't understand "the modern art" /s
merry pendant
its almost like a IWI take on Hk433
analog moon
It quite resembles scorpion evo 3 imo
jovial hearth
So has anyone made a ArmA weapon mod yet for the new IWI shotgun?
opaque folio
tank/combined arms footage in syria. The usage of the drone is very interesting - very static and "defensive" but incredibly usefull for command and keeping overview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkFvqwqUxws
ember idol
RTS Camera
analog moon
"I have no more .308 ACP magazines" - said the fat controller
frosty island
@merry pendant so much yes, that's gonna be in the next bond film for sure
merry pendant
thats typical error seen on movies or in pictures , that they mount things backwards
keen wolf
How does an armourer make that sort of error? I can understand a military adviser not noticing that stuff, but the guy who actually provides the weapons, real or not, has to have at least some understanding of the subject.
main spade
It is an airsoft replica and they bought the parts separately?
frosty island
I swear half the time they don't even have proper advisors for stuff anymore, or the guys the hire give zero fuck
and they don't need proper armourers for the weapons unless they're blank firing, so they jsut have the props people with airsoft stuff who don't know jack about firearms
fresh fulcrum
There seems to be a thing in the British Army where one guy in a group mounts their optic backwards when they're forced to do photo ops. I've seen it a few times
So maybe the armourer on the show did it intentionally too, to f with the actors
frosty island
I wouldn't put it past a squaddie to do something like that, but I doubt someone would risk future employment for a tiny onscreen joke
small sage
So, are the new Russian military guns going to be the death of the AK platform?
merry pendant
@small sage what new guns?
and no , there wont be the death of AK platform
there will be improvements like the latest AK-12
small sage
What about the AMB-17 and SVK-16? I think they're on the FirearmBlog.
fresh fulcrum
Only AK-12, AK-15 etc. were adopted so far
merry pendant
AMB-17 is a possible candicate to replace old VAL and SVK rifle might replace SVD
so i still dont get where did you get that "death of AK platform"
small sage
The AM-17 and the others look more like an ACR than an AK-esque platform.
That's all.
analog moon
yeah
they kinda look cool
but I don't get one thing
what's the deal with tan color?
main spade
Modern furniture (polymer stocks, rails and controls etc) around a similar design.
analog moon
AK-12 and 15 are tan, RPK-16 is tan, AM-17 is tan, SVK is tan...
what's the deal with tan color? Are russians trying to make their guns look like SCAR?
merry pendant
no , they are also in black but FDE is more cool i guess
this started a long time ago when ACR was a thing
small sage
We need to settle down with FDE. Keep it balanced. Sometimes, Thanos is kinda right.
tranquil kite
Need to hype SBR, Shiny Bright Red.
analog moon
when are we gonna get tactical pink weapons?
If I have to be 100% honest, I like the tan color on weapons
main spade
I just assume it is a better base camo for arid environments. Getting tan colouring right may just be showing it can be done well proving that side of manufacturing.
fresh fulcrum
It generally considered to be better than solid black in all environments. Not just arid ones
fresh fulcrum
carbon black pigmentation is the most cost-effective for providing protection from UV degradation of polymers though
which is probably why it's the most common, even though there was no real reason to make polymer parts on modern firearms black
the gun metal was black because of corrosion resistant treatments to the metal (and reduced reflection compared to bare metal) - not because it was a conscious decision that guns should be black instead of some better colour
keen wolf
โ
small sage
@analog moon > tactical pink
"Let's do our best, P-chan!"
I never should've watched GGO...
merry pendant
@fresh fulcrum polymer is black because thats its default color more or less and also strength
i heard tan polymers and clear ones are easier to break
fresh fulcrum
yes, like I said because they use carbon black to strengthen it against UV degradation
UV damaged plastic is prone to cracking and goes chalky
hence coloured plastics aren't as strong without more expensive UV protection methods
vagrant hull
that is "base" for the AM/AMB platform, originally that system was build for the "MVD" competition in 1977, Dragunov's project. (btw winner was AKSU back then) > https://youtu.be/8WFOhdVSIXk
analog moon
what do you get when you have 2 MAs with you?
a mama
:p
I know
my puns are bad
analog moon
frosty island
I heard you can make guns easily at home now
https://78.media.tumblr.com/6d25539e7649473c2dee677eeb78da7c/tumblr_pcsuh35GNg1s6lzfwo1_540.jpg
merry pendant
thats how politicians think how they 3D printing guns lol
frosty island
wait til they find out that a lot of black powder guns that are easily available are possibly more deadly, they'll have a stroke
merry pendant
it will take long enough , because it doesnt change the fact that you can create any firearm at home basically
flat anvil
theoretically 3d printed guns could be a problem but metal printing is expensive and results in too poor metals to be safely used in similar dimensions as other manufactured weapons
and plastic printing makes you joke 1 hit guns like liberator that are practically useless and mostly just a publicity stunt because anyone spending more than 2 seconds thinking about one realizes that a $5 plumbing pipe shotgun is more safe and effective than one
main spade
It is going to happen at some point but it requires a material break through to go from nice idea to something that is safe to use.
The USA definition of a gun for the AR15 platform being the lower receiver does make building such a weapon quite easy as you only have to mill one part and the rest can be bought. But for most of the rest of the world it remains quite difficult to make an untraceable weapon.
timid grove
It's far easier to just make a zip-gun with a pipe, spring and nail than it is to print a gun. The information has been around forever. 3D printing is best left to your accessories for now.
keen wolf
@frosty island being able to print the gun isn't really the problem in the US, illegal/stolen weapons can be easily picked up by anyone. It's the fact that it's almost entirely plastic that is causing concern, as that makes it much easier to sneak through security checkpoints
even the fact that's single use isn't an issue if it's being used for assassination purposes
while other homemade weapons are possible, they either contain much more metal or they are larger. The 'liberator' design is really geared to be be concealed from security, even the name could be a barely veiled hint at it's use for political assassinations.
timid grove
You could just as easily drill out plastic and make the thing.
It would even be stronger.
keen wolf
The movie "In the Line of Fire" is arguably the original inspiration for the Liberator. An almost entirely plastic/composite weapon that is used by an assassin in a plot to kill the president. (Which might explain why even Trump has spoken out against it)
though the weapon in the movie, was not 3D printed and pre-dated the rise of 3D printing by many years
timid grove
The magic thing about plastics is their ability to be easily machined at home as well. So you don't need an additive process to make something significantly more durable than the Liberator (which could just blow up in your face if you use the wrong resolution or material).
pine skiff
How would they sneak ammunition through metal detectors and such though? Ive gotten pulled aside at multiple security checkpoints cause I forgot a single dime or penny in one of my pockets.
Also the name comes from the original liberator pistol in WW2, another very crude, single shot pistol designed to be dropped to french resistance or the like.
merry pendant
even that pistol wasnt made to last long - it was like one shot or few shot matter just to get better gun
and modern one that is probably one shot thing too unless its 22.LR
frosty island
Plastic guns are a giggle rn
The 90% plastic guns are as likely to blow up in your hands as put around down range
The AR lowers although cool, donโt fair very well in the long run and arenโt security proof at all
But mostly weโre looking at a panic that is on par with when the glock first came out on the scebe
Itโs dumb and people are dumb
And you shouldnโt be allowed to implement policy on something unless you know what youโre taking about
tranquil kite
I feel like they're trying too hard to make them shoot 5.56. Using lower pressure cartridges would be a lot easier.
rancid oak
@frosty island not knowing what they're talking about and implementing policy is like the motto of 90% of politicians
I still think that lost plastic metal casting is more viable than just the plastic, a home foundry is easier to make and setup then most 3D printers
vagrant hull
the future is coming!
keen wolf
@pine skiff Well, as an example - in the film I mentioned, the .22 ammo was hidden in the body of a metal pen. Airport xray scanners might pick that up if the person operating it was paying very close attention, but plenty of secure buildings only use metal detectors and not xray e.g. museums, court buildings, hotels and convention centres. They depend on a manual bag search and a pen seems pretty innocent.
In the book, and film, The Day of the Jackal, the actual gun itself was a modified crutch. It's not difficult to hide something in plain sight, as long as it doesn't look like what it actually is.
@rancid oak Again, this has nothing to do with manufacturing weapons, but manufacturing concealable weapons
yes, you can make better weapons at home from metal, it's not that politicans or the legal system are ignorant of that fact, but a weapon that can potentially be slipped past security checkpoints without detection is from their perspective a big problem
merry pendant
there doesnt exist undetectable gun yet because even if its made made out of plastic , bullets are still metal so are parts inside
so politicians overthink that , like in die hard 2 with glock 7
keen wolf
.22 rounds are tiny and easy to conceal themselves
merry pendant
conceal yes but detector will still show it
keen wolf
what sort of detector?
merry pendant
well any metal detector pretty much
keen wolf
an xray will, but as I said, most buildings don't actually have an xray
and bags don't go through the metal detector
wallets, key chains, belts, all go into trays and bypass the detector
if you conceal the round in an innocent looking object, you can get it past those checks
merry pendant
i dont think they dont check those , previously yes they didnt but nowdays they do with the hand held detector min
keen wolf
they are made of metal ... so how is waving a hand held detector over them going to tell them anything useful?
and they don't stop and dismantle everything
merry pendant
if something beeps then they usually open the bag and inspect
keen wolf
(well wallets aren't made of metal, but belt buckles, key chains, pens, etc are)
Yeah, I feel you're missing the point of "conceal"
take a metal pen, as the example, unscrew it, remove the ink cartridge and you can quite comfortably fit a couple of .22 rounds into the body
merry pendant
even if you manage to slip out pen gun , its pretty much useless but still they will find bullets ๐
keen wolf
not the gun ... hug?
the gun is plastic, the bullets are hidden in the pen
or a zippo lighter body, or a hollowed out metal keychain item
merry pendant
xray gonna see that easily
late kite
youd be deadlier with a sharpened candy cane tbh
keen wolf
@merry pendant Ok, I see what you're doing there ... shame on me for being trolled so easily
@late kite Yes, there are lots of ways to kill a person that don't require a gun. That doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to prevent people making or carrying weapons at all.
late kite
I mean you're talking about getting past vatious metal detectors
keen wolf
we're talking about getting a gun and ammo past metal detectors and why 3D printed plastic weapons have been made illegal, not plotting out ways to get just any lethal weapon past a metal detector
late kite
isn't there polymer cased ammo?
keen wolf
yes, but the round itself is still metal, at least in existing circumstances
merry pendant
if you really wanted to bypass everything , it would needed to be 100% plastic and maybe wood
keen wolf
polymer cased works ... not to the standards required for military use, but for someone planning a murder/assassination and a gun that can only fire one round anyway ...
merry pendant
in very close range shooting somebody in the head isnt quite a good idea tho
faint mango
any gun control is an infringment
pine skiff
Taxation is theft. Gun control via taxation i.e. nfa tax stamps are the purest form of infringement.
hot heart
Can someone point me to an M1A1 crewman, I have a question.
analog moon
The whole "Glock cannot be detected by metal detectors" is a complete bullshit
since the whole glock slide is made of metal
isnt it?
vagrant hull
slide is fully from metal and frame is the biggest almost* polymer part there, but even frames are reinforced with the metal parts... so yes those are myths and legends about metal detectors ๐
merry pendant
glock 7 is the gun that is undetectable ๐
vagrant hull
Bruce Willis approved
opaque folio
It seems like a presentation that also contains sekrit documents about swedish MBT tank trials in 1990 was released https://www.docdroid.net/yg5vzDV/2012-11-08-stridsfordon-idag-och-imorgon.pdf
elder dust
I was able to find it publicly earlier on the presenters website.
warm swallow
Interesting pdf https://i.imgur.com/HFPsw9B.png ๐
eternal finch
~30 years old stuff, ATGMs and drones and EFP IEDS changed everything so not much of leak just historical document
tranquil kite
Oh jeez. Just imagine drones with EFPs strapped on swarming tank turret roofs.
fresh fulcrum
Kind of have that already in the form of Sensor Fuzed munitions for artillery and cluster bombs
eternal finch
ye but now imagine it 10 times cheaper and faster ... or hell micro/nanodrones deployed by artilery or missiles (puff of smoke in sky and then humming and everything dies) ... scary
flat anvil
that's why the swedish Leo2 improved has a lot of increased turret /frontal hull top armor
mostly because they were developing infantry top attack munitions at the same time
and bill 2 was already in service with fly-over top attack EFP
ember idol
itd be amusing and a bit scary to see a swarm of little like RC planes flying around overhead waiting for a drone to task them to kamikaze into enemy positions
munitions that can circle and wait for targets
eternal finch
@ember idol nothing amusing on that, such systems aleady do exist ( e.g. Israel has those)
ember idol
idk, i find it amusing in a hysterical kind of way
to see it would be pretty hysterical
heady quest
in a matter of efficiency and costs one well loaded drone is better than a swarm of small loaded drones
even tho swarms like the ones in black ops are absolutely made of nightmares
olive plaza
Sort of reminds me of Operation Chrome Dome: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chrome_Dome
sturdy scroll
Would talking about range shooting go in here or in #offtopic_arma ?
obtuse sonnet
I don't see why not here
tribal eagle
I mean it's related to weapons so why not
heady quest
lol they managed to end the operation after 5 crashed bombers
each one armed with big bombs
eternal finch
ye but each such crash actually helped to improve the safety, similar to nuclear submarine disasters
merry pendant
i see thunderball took that idea ๐
late kite
man by that logic the navy must be the safest branch what with all the ship crashes : ^ )
eternal finch
@late kite that applies only if there is someone willing to learn from it and pay for the development of safety measures and new technologies and trained personel
which in case of nuclear warheads, weaponry and procedures while handling, transporting and storing those indeed happened
sturdy scroll
i went and shot an AR-15 for the first time last week
i'd post the result of the target but embedding is off ๐
AR-15 chambered in .223 with a red dot, specifically, was very comfortable to shoot
much more than the .38 pistol i tried in florida
sturdy scroll
i got started off with the AR-15 since i hadn't shot a rifle before
originally was going to go with the AR-10 but the range guy suggested 7.62x51 might be a little bit too much for a rookie to be able to utilise without somehow malfunctioning the gun
merry pendant
depends on ar10 , mostly expensive ones and especially modern ones like dpms or sr25 should be fine
they kick more than ar15 but nothing like a mule heh
you might try some G3 clone which are usually fine and they are not expensive
opaque folio
this looks goofy AF, but pretty nice for running with backpack https://imgur.com/gallery/Z7UChD4
merry pendant
that looks weird but if it works cool ๐
frosty island
looks trippy as fuck, I'd just worry about it gaining some extra momentum and throwing me off balance. Especially if you have some proper weight in it
ember idol
i sighted in my mosin nagant carbine last week, prob the first time in several decades, had to adjust the ranger to 300 to get it level at 50m
then while cleaning the gun(i ranged it with single rounds at a time without touching safety) I was fiddling with the safety, turned it on, then off, then went to open the chamber and it misfired
lewl
gonna need to fix that before i use it for anything but single rounds at firing range
merry pendant
when you cleaning the gun , NEVER have it loaded - you have UNLOAD it , be sure its empty and check it twice
ember idol
it was unloaded
I'm saying the hammer fired
lol
i thought it was pretty well implied its not loaded while cleaning
merry pendant
ok , lucky you ๐
ember idol
though its scary when it misfires loaded or not, there is a reason i'd only fire single rounds through it
the safety on the mosin nagant is scary, i need to replace it
i got bad tendonitis a few years ago and I have poor finger strength since then
ember idol
the safety has this massive pull weight
and given the shape of the mosin nagant safety, and how it works
thats scary
your basically pulling the hammer back, with like a 30lb pull wait, where its a knob, and turning it slightly
merry pendant
so basically almost like the japanese rifle
ember idol
idk how the japanese rifles work tbh, never looked at one
wouldn't be suprised at that era them being similar
merry pendant
they have that palm safety that you use your palm in the rear and twist it
in the rear of the bolt
ember idol
that little knob on the back you pull back and twist
if it wasn't so fucking heavy to pull back i'd be kewl, but it is like abnormally heavy for me
i've been looking at mods where its a ring you can put ur finger through
merry pendant
i see , i didnt cared that much about that safety on nagant ha , but i know the other ones
ember idol
if i use it hunting i need the safety working nice
merry pendant
you pull the rear circle thing and twist it right?
merry pendant
that isnt the cocking device?
ember idol
idk if its just an age/maintenence issue, or if that is normal pull weight
there is a little knob that holds it from firing that the trigger depresses
and there is a chance it'd skip over that
merry pendant
hmm it might be something overused part that does it
ember idol
yea, it needs work when I have time i'll have to look more into it and maybe taking everything all the way apart
and replace some shit
cuz the thing shoots suprisingly straight after i got the sights adjusted
and its pretty easy rifle to carry
since its the carbine :)
i like hunting with older guns
merry pendant
is that russian carbine like m38?
merry pendant
so its M44 then nice
ember idol
i remember it wasn't russian manufacture
merry pendant
as the site says - its probably one of these "Polish, Hungarian, Romanian"
ember idol
i only remember it was neither the really common ones, or the rare ones
after that i lost interest in where it was from
merry pendant
can you show me the main mark ?
ember idol
i can take a quick snap i suppose
hungary
afaik its kind of middling as far as rarity
mmm, and yea, pull force is about 30lb on it according to others too
lewl
merry pendant
yeah , still nice to have heh
ember idol
yea, ww2 rifles are kewl things
the designs
maybe one day i'll get to shoot the orig model
vagrant hull
lucid trout
7.62*39cm no doubt
patent solstice
240 Rocket MLRS from the UAE https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pDW81UrKV1M/maxresdefault.jpg
lone spoke
hey do military aerial vehicles have warnings such as "Terrain" and "Pull up"
vagrant hull
google bitching betty or russian version ัะธัะฐ(sounds like rita, not pita ๐) ๐
main spade
Modern ones do and the warning systems can be pretty sophisticated. Plenty of planes in service still that don't have automated systems like that however.
opaque folio
beefy biological warfare truck - https://youtu.be/7pVwLucp3f0 ^^
opaque folio
goat poo sling...
opaque folio
ukrainian cage armor test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWH2LhEZsrY
vagrant hull
this is part of "commercials" for the company "ะะฒะตัะธ ะดะปั ะฑะฐะฝะบะพะฒ ะธ ะบะฒะฐััะธั/Doors for banks and apartments" ๐
not really test, lets say... just some activity on the video lol
steady apex
Light machine gun Kord 5,45 https://youtu.be/9acPgh0k9Tw
main spade
bring ๐ back ๐ the ๐ G11
merry pendant
6.8mm isnt that super different than 6.5 btw and army is testing several calibers that works best in non brass ammo but still thats hard to do
sturdy scroll
they were looking at both 6.5 and 6.8
this was the announcement for them deciding on who to ask to build 6.8 prototypes though
merry pendant
yea i see the army pushing the 6.8 while i think 6.5 might been better for rifles but they are focusing on LMGs weirdly enough
tender compass
they wanna see how good it does in automatic fire probably
I can see it now.. a few mishaps here and there before it's refined to not just be good at it's job but also safe to handle
sinful horizon
According to the Wikipedia
The Type 115 is similar to the real-life "K11 DAW"
The big super-soaker looking thing
Which is interesting because apparently instead of an under-barrel 50. BW, it's like a grenade launcher or something
But instead of the traditional single (or 3 if you're thinking of the MX 3GL) shot launcher it appears to be loaded by magazine
So potentially a hand-held weapon not too unlike the dedicated grenade launchers found on RCWS or statics
I wonder if there are mods that add that ๐ค
ember idol
there are like 3 countries that have battlerifle + smart GL launcher
US had a project for awhile to make one, then the combo got scrapped and they continued just the smart GL launcher
aka, the XM-25, the combo was the XM-29
keen wolf
wasn't the XM-25 also cancelled?
ember idol
last i read it was semi-canceled
lewl
oh shit, i guess in july it was officially canceled
this year
thats too bad, i heard it was pretty legit
tender compass
well they still at least have Airburst 40mm for JSOC
namely the MK47.. which is basically a Mk19 with a FCS
keen wolf
the stated reason behind cancelling the XM-25 was a bit odd IMHO, it was clearly a specialist role, one per squad or fireteam just like AT, so why would it be such a big deal that someone had to carry extra weight when they already have other roles with the same burden? In fact one the of the reasons behind the XM-25 in the first place was to give a better alternative to firing Javelins at structures - a 7-10kg reloadable weapon surely beats hauling a 23kg single use Javalin around doesn't it?
merry pendant
Reason why it got cancelled the optic wasnt ready and army got sick by it
javelins are extremly expensive to use
so a CG is way cost effective to use
they still thinking to get those GL missile thing
keen wolf
well the other reason for the XM-25 was to significantly reduce collateral damage, so it could be used in an inhabited urban environment, a Carl Gustav doesn't do that.
It's fair enough if the optics just weren't reliable enough, but the at least the stuff I read about the cancellation stated the reason as being weight because the operator would need to carry his rifle in addition, which as I said just doesn't seem to add up.
anyhow, what's done is done ... maybe the tech will make a comeback later
merry pendant
weight might be a excuse but in reality its non issue when you got a working weapon
ember idol
looks like the issue may have been complexity to make them and heckler and koch was having trouble procuring them
wouldnt be surprised if hk saw the production cost hit a certain point with complexity that they wanted to increase per unit costs
and then someone saying nothnx
estimates put it at 30-55k a unit
which maybe that increased
development and funding hell
with the other combo rifle/smart GL that other militaries are doing, i wonder if we will see a new version of it within the next decade
maybe part of that exoskeleton project
give the guys with exoskeleton suits bigger guns :)
TALOS
tender compass
Browning M2s forever!
exoskeleton needs bigger weapon?.. M2.. there! :u
but don't be a madman and slap an M3 on there that's too fast
buoyant plover
French GIGN using CZ 805 762x39:
https://www.dutchdefencepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/gvo-180614-371.jpg
https://www.dutchdefencepress.com/gign-demo/
merry pendant
more like CZ Bren 2
buoyant plover
Ah ok
I was suprised seeing them using 762x39
golden palm
merry pendant
same as MSBS being a ripoff of Masada/ACR ๐
tender compass
wished they chose that Bullpup version. It looks cool to use
jovial hearth
@merry pendant - Mr. Hammer.. I'm calling you out sir.. I'll take all versions of this in your next release of your gun addon pack please. With extra large magazines as options too. : )
merry pendant
well if you model it first ๐
olive plaza
Hey @merry pendant it can be the 1,001 st AR/M4/M16 variant in Arma ๐
merry pendant
its Ar15 hybrid that takes AK mags , thats at least something different
olive plaza
can be done without modifying an already made model. Some guys (referring to Teams members) would put 7.62 uppers on their M-4s
merry pendant
yes but there are new parts , especially the lower receiver
olive plaza
On that particular one maybe. Generally you can swap uppers all day long. I had .22 rimfire, 7.62 and .50 Beowulf uppers for mine (personal collection). It was literally plug and play.
merry pendant
obviously yes its a ar15 but still alot of new parts , this isnt like .300 Blackout
olive plaza
All McCutchen Firearms' upper receiver assemblies are designed to fit on any MIL-spec AR-15 style lower.
This includes M4 and M16A4
merry pendant
yup i know these things exist , similiar one got in safety harbor firearms
https://www.safetyharborfirearms.com/products/shtf-uppers
olive plaza
They can literally be swapped in seconds.
My point being (with the exception of the .50 BMG and select others) is that this can all be done via config vs creating a new model. An M4 chambered in 5.56 is virtually indistinguishable from one chambered in 7.62.
merry pendant
that depends on the model , not all of them are like M4
olive plaza
Not all no, but for the purposes of having an M4/M16A4 clone chambered in a different cartridge, it saves a whole lot of time.
merry pendant
like i said this would work fine with .300 blk because most of the guns got the same look as the 556 one
so much so that most of the guys are blowing their guns
ember idol
im liking how the arx100 looks
merry pendant
its ok gun but it is bulky as hell with all that polymer , making it slimmer would been better
jovial hearth
Are their any ArmA weapon mods that have the Beretta ARX? The gun itself is cool. We carry the semi auto versions in our shop. have not shot one, but so light.
merry pendant
probably in some italian mod perhaps? - https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/192160-pedagnemod-upgrade-pack-arma-3-released/?do=findComment&comment=3187072
olive plaza
.50 and 81mm mortar combo
https://pcf45.com/misfire/mortar.html
keen wolf
at some point in the evolution of that Mortar, the lines between grenade launcher, cannon and mortar became really blurred
main spade
Hey guys, i am playing CUP for the first time now.. Its a lot of weapons and i am overwhelmed... To make it short: AS50 - Strongest Sniper?
And: Which MG to choose with Scopes and Silencer available?
Thx alot!
tender compass
it's so cute!!!!! https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/01/07/copperhead/
merry pendant
ugly as feck , its should been called copperhog
obtuse sonnet
Looks like something from a space marine game, same proportions, just a lot smaller
clear dew
I agree with delta hawk, looks like a bolter
keen wolf
from a military perspective, does how the weapon looks matter in the slightest?
Also thrown by the comment about suppression in the article, it's a PDW ... why would you want it silenced, if you have to use it you're already pretty f**ked
tranquil kite
If PDW users are attempting to escape and evade, suppressors would be nice. They are good for a usability point of view too, less need for earpro.
wooden hull
It depends on what your mission is @keen wolf , in a city in Iraq probably not to much , on an R&S mission in Afghanistan more so. Suppressors are great but they get pretty hot depending on your rate of fire. And they will mildly change your ballistics, You can communicate easily during a fire fight until the 240 starts rocking . If you read a good book about E&E check out Bravo 2-0 there is also a movie .
keen wolf
Well this is a true PDW, extremely short barrel meaning it's basically only useful at extreme close quarters, it's essentially an automatic pistol. It's not going to be anyone's weapon of choice as an offensive weapon. In those conditions you're not going to be taking down members of an enemy patrol or similar one at a time rambo style, silencer or not, the moment you need to start shooting you're discovered and you won't last long unless you start running. While some PDW have found favour with police and special ops for use in house-clearing type missions where a silencer might be useful, no element of the design of this particular weapon seems aimed at that market.
I can see it being used for Close Protection, a concealable weapon (to avoid drawing attention and scaring the public), but in that use-case noise is actually an advantage - you want to draw the attention - to yourself and away from your protectee , but also draw in other security/police etc nearby.
one of the reasons PDWs haven't ended up being very popular for their intended role (pilots, vehicle crews etc) is in fact because they are pretty much weapons of last resort. No-one really wants to consider a scenario where they get close enough to the enemy to actually need it.
quaint shale
Are there any long range sniper optics that support NV?
merry pendant
well any scope that has NV adapter infront will work at night
quaint shale
True, but there a non that work with NV goggles?
merry pendant
yea without a proper NV adapter that most likely wont work , because of eye relief and alignment
quaint shale
Will a sniper scope that was build for a 50 cal. correct auto align on a gun with 5.56 mm?
fresh fulcrum
Auto-align?
if it has a bullet-drop compensating reticle, then no
but most use mil-dots
which are simply for measuring angles and have nothing to do with the ballistic properties of the gun
obtuse sonnet
I think I understand what you mean. You're asking if you can take a scope off a rifle zeroed for 5.56mm and put it on a .50cal and the sights will be just as correct as it was on the other rifle?
In video games, sure. In real life, no. It's not possible, especially with precision optics.
There's some rifle scope mounts that keep their zeros for that specific weapon, but that's not interchangeable between different firearms.
If you mount a scope on a new weapon, it should always be re-zeroed
quaint shale
But arma does it automatically?
obtuse sonnet
Yes
Don't ask me about ArmA's BDC, I've never used them like that.
And even in real life BDCs are subjective to a number of variables that affect their accuracy, biggest one being bullet weight
main spade
I think most of the default scopes do just automatically adjust, but certainly withACE and RHS that is not the case, they do not all work regardless of calibre.
In real life a scope for 5.56 moved simply to another 5.56 rifle of the same type can be quite a way off and needs rezeroing, even just removing it from the same rifle and putting it back will usually result in a deviation.
obtuse sonnet
Well there are qd mounts that are supposed to retain their zero. AK side rails are supposed to retain their zero too...supposed to
I've never had any experience with qd mounts so my personal view wouldn't matter, not that personal views matter much at all
wooden hull
https://youtu.be/y1fZVsZ-Les this is a scope built for a 5.56 that is mounted on a M2 , some of our guys used them on our M4 instead, none of us really liked the idea of having a M2 with a LR scope .
quaint shale
I tried the RCO and i think the MCO ? (The one from the greenbacks/rebbels 2x zoom) on the .45 smg the bullets are way of.
fresh fulcrum
how much more effective is it than a 12Ga slug at that point though?
merry pendant
you can rather get .338 AR to get some power heh
tender compass
Which makes you wonder if it's really anything good.
frozen widget
any mods with the l85a3?
alpine nymph
@frozen widget SMA
merry pendant
German State Police Adopt NEW Glock 46
whats new about this you ask? its the internal mechanism thats different
smoky panther
Why get a glock when you can get a P226?
fresh fulcrum
Heavier and far more expensive
wooden hull
I prefer the Glock 19 over the Colt M45A1 close quarters battle pistol. For me the Glock performs better. No saftey, better recoil Managment for follow on shots. I havenโt shot the P226 yet.
merry pendant
P226 is good but little outdated for todays standards + high bore axis sucks sorry ๐
bronze haven
I really like Hk 416 ( spar 16 , and other names in various games ) i have airsoft repliqua ๐
https://www.noelshack.com/2019-06-4-1549545878-p1110435.jpg For Who know Airsoft , is my gear ๐
merry pendant
you have the older version of hk416 , arma 3 has the A5 variant ๐
tender compass
gotta watchout for that new A7 model ๐
this though.. that's interesting.. they never chambered .300 PRC before but DoD wants the Barrett MRAD chambered just in that calibur. I honestly never heard of the .300 PRC.. must've forgotten about it
jeez... apparently it outperformed .300 Norma Mag in all aspects
This too!!.. everything is confusing about this piece of equipment :( https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/02/06/us-army-testing-new-squad-dmr-at-fort-bliss/
it's not an M110A1.. it's.. something meant for the squad.
merry pendant
it is the M110A1 thats the designation and its a little mystery that army chosen the most expensive dmr on the market heh , which has none compatible parts with anything
merry pendant
btw here you have the M17 pistol in full package
dunno why but it looks so cheap
tender compass
oh no it's not an M110A1.. the M110A1 is given to sniper units
the one in the article is made using the M110A1 lower receiver but the upper reciever is new. So is the Optic, which is a SIG TANGO6.
and is meant to be given out as the Squad Designated Marksman Rifle
so... basically.. replacing M14s?
still am confused why it says at the Brigade-Level
fresh fulcrum
Doesnโt mean that it wonโt also be M110 though
M14 EBR vs M14 and M14 DMR
Or M4A1 vs M4A1 CQBR
But could equally have a different designation like M27 and M38
tender compass
Good points
am still wrapping my head around their decision on the M27 and M38 one
all in all though the SDM-R is to get a new designation sooner or later
merry pendant
so called SDM-R still has M110A1 markings ๐ , because its the same rifle but with different setup
that upper isnt new thats part of the M110A1 also
tender compass
oh oops I read it wrong... upper reciever still the same..
just a different barrel
....hmm
still... it will get a different designation based on setup yes?
merry pendant
maybe it will get or this might be just a test like marines did before with their - SDM-R
fresh fulcrum
I don't know why they used M110A1 for the CSASS in the first place when it's got so little to do with the KAC M110 save for the role
Maybe they'll pick a new one when CSASS and SDM-R go in to service fully, that is common to those
tranquil kite
Probably to hide it in the budget or equipment organization =p
Call it an upgrade but is really new gun.
merry pendant
they will still use old M110s too but problem is the dont share anything together , only accessories
they could easily buy new uppers to get cheap DMRs for squads
since been saying that they are too long rifles ... but they asked for that before
tender compass
well... that's uh... quite the intereating AR build... just a true as can be pistol in .300 blk
fresh fulcrum
Didn't someone make something like that in the 1990s, but it was piston-driven so remained semi-automatic instead of a straight-pull?
fresh fulcrum
Olympic Arms OA-93 was what I was thinking of
merry pendant
its cleverly inside - here you have a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apd6NXWgBZk
while its the 96 still the same thing
tender compass
oh crud he made a video on it?!
It was still made with the purpose of dodging certain gun laws. that .300 one was made to look cool.. Solo pistol <3
fresh fulcrum
The 93 wasn't to dodge gun laws. The 96 and 98 were
the 98 actually looks pretty cool all skeletonised though
merry pendant
you mean the fixed magazine yeah , thats still a thing in california btw
tender compass
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/02/12/suppressed-sig-rattler-aewe/ SIG already getting some promotion points
merry pendant
Sig is giving them free guns to try just to get more attention inside
next matrix
I am just curious but what do you people think about the ppsh-41?
tender compass
an amazing weapon for sure. that high rate of fire
speaking of that. Wasn't there one for RHS:GREF? the creator was excited to add it to the arsenal
glad spoke
I am still surprised that nobody has made a static 155 mm m777 howitzer gun. the scorcher has a very similar barrel to it but it is not a static artillery
fresh fulcrum
You haven't chosen to make one, so why is it difficult to comprehend that any other person hasn't chosen to do so?
glad spoke
I do not know how to use the tools to make one if I did I would
karmic canyon
the PMC editing wiki would be a good place to start ๐
proven cove
I would guess CUP and RHS static artillery pieces fill the need for such 9/10 times
karmic canyon
Not even sure we have a m777
๐ค
proven cove
no but you have others that fill similar role
karmic canyon
True that
dire loom
is this a place to discuss weapons irl
ok based on above chat I'm going to assume it is
I'm thinking about buying my own first gun, does anybody have any input on different choices?
I would prefer a rimfire rifle
probably a bolt action
I enjoy target shooting and there are a lot of brands (and prices) out there
dire loom
someone recommended I go to a range and rent some guns... didn't even think about that and I'm def. going to do that
merry pendant
well get some ruger or savage .22 that should be fine
ember idol
most people start on .22, cheap to shoot and easy to handle, good for shooting targets, cans, squirrels and other small game
olive plaza
Ruger 10/22 (rifle)
Walther P22 (pistol)
Both inexpensive, but high quality. Ammunition is cheap.
dire loom
someone suggested a CZ-75 or variant but I looked up some laws in my state and I actually figured out I can't purchase a handgun until I'm 21
A .22 was the first gun I regularly shot as a kid when I was under the age of 10
I will definitely explore .22s when I go to the range
thank you guys
cheap ammo is def a factor to consider lol
if I go all out I'll be getting a Mossburg ahaha
Mossburg as in a pump action shotgun lol it seems kinda overkill tbh
not really a target shooting gun
i mean unless you just want to blow up the target like watermelons and soda bottles but that stuff's expensive ๐
ember idol
skeet
can be pretty fun
20 gauge
after .22 next for me is shotguns and shootin dem clay pidgeons
obtuse sonnet
Agreed. A bolt action .22 is a great first gun, especially if you have no prior experience
slate token
better to get a AR lower reciever and build you own gun. you can use many calibers , .22lr and many more .
main spade
I shot the Ruger carbine once, not a bad choice for starter, 9mm, very smooth, but a little bit heavy
tender compass
now that's a nifty design
it's basically like how the barrel recoils backward on a barrett from my first impression of it
merry pendant
yes its pretty much based on Barett barrel system but its kinda odd seeing that on .308 while it would beeen better if you had like .338 to exploit the system
tender compass
It's their own patent system so I'm sure they'll continue to go bigger
Hopefully it won't run into problems... cause this has great military potential
I do wonder what the rate of fire is though...
we've seen recoiling barrels like the xm312 that have that slow RoF
merry pendant
nah this wont be a military thing unless they got a really good .338 out of this , other than that nope
tender compass
odd how they don't really talk about what happened with the PSR program. It's like something so bad happened to the point that presentations this year didn't even acknowledge Remington's Mk. 21 and instead talked about how it will replace Mk. 13s with the Barrett's new Mk21.
merry pendant
yeah after Remington failed to produce MSRs ๐
tender compass
man. Remington is losing all sorts of stuff
it's like all the good companies we praised back then are now losing out to those we called questionable quality.. probably still questionable quality... Looking at SIG there xD
merry pendant
thats because most of these old companies are not the same as they were before
Remington is just a name only and then they outsource things for them
thats why almost from them falls apart
similiar is the Colt and Springfield too
the old Sig still lives btw as a Swiss arms
smoky panther
court in the US just ruled that people are allowed to sue remington if people use remington weapons in shootings
so for example, the Sandy Hook shooter used a remington brand AR-15, and the parents/town/school are sueing remington for a TON because they say Remington marketed their weapons in a way that incentivizes mass shootings.
umbral nova
Why have people become so desperate?
proven cove
thats quite sickening to hear people wanting to profit from such a tragedy
karmic canyon
can i sue coca cola and mcdonalds now because the ads made my sister eat and drink to much and made her obese??
cool
ember idol
well technically.....pretty sure thats already happened
umbral nova
In the early 2000's, this was exactly the case. Reason why they removed "supersize" variants of foods. As well as appealing to the "I want to eat healthy crowd" by advertising salads as well as requiring calorie counts to be visible.
offtopic though
smoky panther
@karmic canyon actually, you can.
obtuse sonnet
@smoky panther link? This has been debated in the past and gun companies have usually avoided being held responsible for the actions of a couple lunatics.
Good God I honestly can't believe some people think it's ok to blame others for someone else's actions when they absolutely had nothing to do with it. It's disgusting and sickening.
olive plaza
You mean like when the neighbors kid enters the other neighbors home in an attempt to steal something, but instead finds the homeowners gun and accidentally kills himself with it and the gun owner being sentenced? Or maybe you mean when a cop shoots a "suspect" accidentally and then the people with him are charged for it? Or maybe unknowingly receiving stolen goods... There are loads of examples out there. Mine are generalisations, but I hope you get the gist.
smoky panther
@obtuse sonnet there's been at least 20 or so cases since 2000, but here's a decent article.
https://lawstreetmedia.com/issues/law-and-politics/weighing-obesity-lawsuits/
merry pendant
where are the guns , people ๐
obtuse sonnet
In my view you have to prove the person you want to blame was willfully negligent.
Its easy for police to be negligent, but a home owner whose house was broken into by a kid and shot himself would be difficult to prove negligent
olive plaza
Negligent Storage laws can make gun-owning homeowners criminally liable for crimes committed with their firearms.
obtuse sonnet
Home owners shouldn't be blamed if someone breaks in their homes, steals a gun an antigun person considers wasn't storing it properly and commits a crime. That's absurd.
Change the situation and circumstances and that idea wouldn't get a second thought
smoky panther
So uh. To get this back on topic.. anyone know what the process is to transfer already owned firearms between two states, while transitting through states with heavy gun restrictions.
For example, the route will take me through NYC, and NYC doesn't allow guns. All of them will be in locked cases in the covered bed of my truck?
Idk what the process is because I've only ever kept my firearms in one state.
olive plaza
I used the Post Office
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
You may however ship from dealer to dealer if that fits the bill.
wooden hull
I would avoid NYC if you can , I made the mistake of driving through there a few weeks ago on my way back up .
Best bet is call each state that you plan on driving through and explain the situation and ask how to do it legally.
I drove from Cross country and had to switch things around depending on the state I was going into .
smoky panther
Yeah. Still gotta figure out gun laws for my current city. All my guns are in storage 250 miles away, since I haven't had any room up here in Boston.
tender compass
this is uhm.. very unusual indeed https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/03/28/a-most-unusual-illegal-weapons-seizing-in-rio-de-janeiro/
I'm trying to understand what the article is saying.. and I'm assuming.. using Umarex "HK M27" Airsoft parts... to assemble a very real HK rifle
fresh fulcrum
the bolt carrier is a DI one with a gas key, not a piston one. So it's just lowers that are made to look like HK parts
the pistol grip on it is a 1st generation HK416 pistol grip, not the one that was in production by the time the M27 was being made
and the hammer isn't right for a full-auto trigger group, because there is no spur to catch on the auto-sear
tender compass
interesting. still, the sheer number of those parts would've been problematic if they were assembled for the Favela gangs
heavy briar
@fresh fulcrum U know too much haha
dusky phoenix
I'm not well-versed in military stuff - but Congresswoman Alexandris Ocasio-Cortez tweeted about a tweet Lawrence Jones III of FOX claiming to be at the US-Mexico border with a bulletproof vest. That... that's not actually a bulletproof vest, right? The badge seems to be a printed graphic? https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1113964185384357893
The original tweet: https://twitter.com/LawrenceBJones3/status/1113763507101741056
I just don't think that's actually a vest b/c of the badge. Also seems way flatter than I thought bulletproof vests were?
fresh fulcrum
it's a plate carrier but looks empty
dusky phoenix
So it is real, but it is not effective at the moment due to it being empty?
While looking at other people, two reporters who have been at the border stated they never had to wear body armor. Another person linked a National Institute of Justice manual saying that the front plate must overlap the back plate by at least two inches? https://twitter.com/spdustin/status/1113926040143966209
It also appears that this body armor carrier has no products with those click-on straps: https://www.armorexpress.com/product-category/carriers/
Or at the least, none in that style
fresh fulcrum
Don't really see why the last link might be relevant. There are thousands of companies making different styles of plate carriers
Even people tailoring them in their home. Could be made by anybody
it's sort of similar to a Blackhawk STRIKE. But I don't know enough about IDing plate carriers to know if it's exactly that one
But it's certainly a vest rather than a backpack because you can tell it opens from the bottom rather than the top
it was quickly discovered with body armour, that it's a very bad idea to have them opening from the top, because explosions can launch the plate out of the opening and cause significant facial damage
dusky phoenix
...the backpack-like straps on the vest are on the top though
fresh fulcrum
I mean the opening where plate is inserted
dusky phoenix
Ahhh
compact phoenix
50 Cal qualification was a blast this weekend, if anyone wants to read a story about a 50 cal breaking i will be more than willing to share just tag me so i know someone is here
opaque folio
warning: particle limit reached
https://youtu.be/OPpgp5B1jVU?t=23
merry acorn
@compact phoenix Feel free to share i always enjoy reading about expensive things breaking ๐
merry acorn
I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Maybe slightly off but i couldnt help but laugh at it ๐
compact phoenix
So we had 50 Cal qualification last weekend, and part of that qualification the tank crews had to fire their 50 cal guns off the top of their turret. Well there is a new style and an old style 50 cal. The new style has a preventative measure to ensure that you do not screw in the barrel to far by having it lock in place a certain way. The old one has a nipple that showed up in a sight glass on the side of the heat shield. So how it would work with the old style is one soldier would look at the sight hole for the nipple and as soon as he saw it he would tell the A gunner that the barrel was set. Then there would be a test in which he would place a thin piece of metal between the bolt and the chassis of the gun to make sure the barrel was set right. The soldier would charge the weapon, place the test device in the right spot and pull the trigger, and if the weapon fired he knew the barrel was put in correctly.
What had happened was the soldiers who fire 50 cal from the tank are issued the old style 50 cal. There is a feed tray cover that you must open to put the rounds in, and it opens in order for the soldier to clear the weapon. These soldiers were fairly green, maybe a year in the National Guard and they had been trained on the new style where the test described was more optional rather than required. They were issued the old 50 cal and they put their barrel in on the tank and headed for the range. They grab their ammo, and they get a 14 round belt to zero and 126 round for qualification. I could tell the soldier firing the weapon was excited since he had never shot a 50 cal before, and he got to do it in the turret of a tank. I was range safety so I would make sure their weapon was clear and they were ready to fire their weapon.
The soldiers were directed by the range tower to load their weapon and get ready to hit the 500 meter zero target, so the soldiers loaded their weapon and told me they were ready. I signaled to the tower that the crew was ready to put rounds down range. I watch the gunner meticulously aim his sights at the target and he was ready to fire. He squats down in his hatch and I heard a boom, which was normal, but what I saw was not. I see an orange flash from the top of the turret and the feed tray cover had been blow so it stood upright, I also happened to see a metal piece go flying through the air. It must have shot 10-15 feet above the track so it was like 30 ft in the air. The soldier on top of the tank was taken aback at what just happened, and he could not believe he just destroyed a $11,000 gun. The feed tray cover was supposed to lay flat, but now it looked like a rainbow covering the bolt.
They get off the range with only a single shot fired, and the gunner is clearly upset and worried since he destroyed government property. After he gets off I asked if he had checked the weapon with the head space and timing test (described above) and he said he had no idea what I was talking about. He said he was only trained on the new weapons and did not know what to do for the old weapons. Our first sergeant was not a happy man and we are still waiting to see if he has to pay a potion of the damages he did to the weapon.
TL:DR
A guy did not check if his 50 cal was working properly. He went to fire the weapon from the turret of a tank and blew off the feed tray cover of the weapon and he may have to pay for damages. Always check headspace and timing on a 50 cal machine gun.
tender compass
but then.. if he was 'trained' on the new weapon with no knowledge of the old one.. isn't the one at fault whoever did the training for these guys?... or whatever field manual they used?
fresh fulcrum
Yeah, kind of is. A lot of visiting NATO troops wouldn't know to do it either, because a lot of European countries have used M2s with fixed headspacing and timing for a lot longer than the US
compact phoenix
we did train on the older system, but i mean if they were told to neglect the head space timing procedure unless it was an older gun they wouldnt know what to do. I am positive we will be getting a good weapons course about headspace and timing next time we need to shoot the 50 cal
i wish i could paste an image to show you what im taking about
ornate vortex
Anyone have any thoughts on the Derya MK12? I want some kind of mag-fed semi-auto shotgun for target shooting/possibly competition and it's pretty cheap, maybe too cheap? I'm in Canada so sadly fun is limited to 5 rounds ๐ฆ
merry pendant
for 5 rounds , you cant just get pump action?
imho there are better cheap turkish shotguns than that one
not sure which ones are in canada tho
ornate vortex
Semi auto long guns limited to five rounds, manual action is unlimited. Turkey seems to have a big market in Canada , not many AR-style shotties though. I wanted something semi auto with mag swapping and so Mk12 is probably the best option for that in Canada, I was just wondering if anyone had any horror stories with it. Iโve heard itโs generally alright just had some quality control issues, maybe Iโll just get a semi Benelli or something, though they arenโt detachable mag fed
merry pendant
well you could get the new mossberg that has mag but that isnt semi auto
opaque folio
its baffling the M2 costs 11k ... thats just ... inflated i'd say. For a design that pretty much exists since 100 years and was produced in thousands...
you get a car for that...
karmic canyon
But... you would have a M2
Why drive to your enemy when you can send lead 2000+ meters to him without moving much...?
๐ค
opaque folio
when you have to pay the same amount for a 25kg piece of steel that can be made with 1900 manufacturing tools vs. a 500-1000kg system of high quality steel and many other components that require modern technology - you are royally ripped off.
smoky panther
@opaque folio often 50% of costs in military weapons programs are in the marketing, licensing, program management, and regulations, required to sell to DOD
so whatever cost you think it should be for manufacturing, double it at least.
Then on top of that, add in the problem that military weapons are often made in batches, meaning factories sit for long periods of time, or have to be retooled/repurposed so that they don't sit idle, which is expensive
(Obviously the military is buying M2's all the time, but the volume varies drastically month to month.)
and then on top of that, add profit
and there you go - a ridiculously powerful weapon with an (all-things-considered) modest price tag of 11k.
opaque folio
marketing... for an M2. right. I work in machine building in similar "size class" and the price for a "dumb " 100 year old system is plain rip off. Systems requiring much more sophistication, engineering and more expensive tooling are sold for less...
safe for the barrel (which requires fine hammering) there is no complicated or expensive to manufacture piece whatsoever.
tender compass
am sure the Senate Armed Services Committee has the same discussion.. but I don't think they wanna butt heads with the industries involved in a tested weapon that lasted throughout the generations
tender compass
well then..
that's quite something...
I feel like theres a catch
other than price
livid beacon
sabot rounds are pretty insane like that
twilit hinge
does anyone have accuracy info on the m14 ?
grim orbit
@twilit hingegenerally 2-3 moa
For the mass produced ones, if you have one upgraded you could get it down to 1 moa likely
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=456256
They are talking about precision shooting and using tuned and upgraded rifles, but you can really infer a lot from when they talk about "untuned" etc m14s
merry pendant
untuned m14 is like 3-4 and used one is like 5 ha
karmic canyon
How about we stick to adding a description to the links we post?
@slate token
main spade
anyone know how wide an m240 is?
inland stump
possible. You might be able to find schematics or something with measurements on them.
empty brook
smoky panther
@empty brook looks awesome!
Just a tech demonstrator, obviously not meant for combat
past creek
Love the c79 scope
verbal crane
i wonder how much they actually use the scope vs throw it on guns before showing them off
verbal crane
I'm sure theres the odd mg with a scope out there
but if you look at them when they are being showed off at events
its like they need to throw a scope on it
merry pendant
well thats a eotech with NV behind it , not so weird
shut sand
Its normal that you put some additional stuff on weapons on expos
right now in POL they like to use SCT Rubin
honest crag
merry pendant
yes?
honest crag
attachment in the inventory shows an ERCO?
merry pendant
oh right but you probably posted this in a wrong channel xD
honest crag
is there a right channel for this, where media is allowed? #screenshots_arma needs some quality.
merry pendant
well i meant more in the sense like feedback and report that bug
outer creek
Dragunov SVD with sights switching from PSO1 and Iron sights will always be my favorite DMR/Medium-Far engagement weapon
dusty veldt
ember idol
tanks going across rough terrain with gun stabilizer active look very cool
tall plume
brave hare
Can I get anyoneโs opinion on some forces (BAF, USMC) moving away from SAWs in favour of (basically) more rifles?
basically, M27 IAR: yes/no
merry pendant
well USMC does because they want to eventually switch to 416s for every rifleman
British army is looking at it but not much new yet - possibly making new LSW
brave hare
I believe the BAF has the same idea with the l85a3
I know theyโre not bothering with an A3 variant of the LSW
That was the last I heard anyway
merry pendant
for them getting IAR would probably make less sense , it would been easier if they did a new A3 LSW
since they upgrading A2s to A3
brave hare
I donโt think theyโre bothering with any kind of dedicated support weapon outside of the 240๐ ฑ๏ธ
so just rifles I think
merry pendant
maybe they will just use A3 just with a bipod and possibly with scope?
brave hare
standard variant has both as far as Iโm aware
merry pendant
true but maybe something more dedicated dunno
brave hare
yea
merry pendant
while i know they want more DMRs
brave hare
I think theyโre going with precision over volume
in general
So DMRs would make sense
merry pendant
it does make sense , that really depends what they are after
main spade
Can I get some love for my boi the Colt M1911 A1?
merry pendant
Ed brown 1911? huh interesting
remote heart
Any active or retired military personnel in here?
remote heart
I made support vehicle design and I was wondering if I could get some critiques on it.
proven cove
link to pics and youll find out ๐
remote heart
I don't have links but I have the pics themselves.
tall plume
@remote heart Feel free to upload them here 
remote heart
I'll present it as an ad.
This is the M1A2 Abrams. It will be replaced by the M1A3 Abrams which adds more armor and an automated weapon that can shot down Rockets before they reach it. This will be phased out by a new tank in 2025-2035. Those tanks need a purpose other than being sold to allies.
The Russians have turned their old tank, the T-72, into something extremely dangerous to infantry and tanks alike.
They call it the BMPT-72, aka the Terminator. With its 23mm Autocannons and Anti-Tank Guided Missiles, this thing is capable of contenting against infantry and tanks alike and coming out on top. I would like to do something similar with our Main Battle Tank once its phased out.
Introducing the Experimental Model 1 Support Repurposed Abrams aka XM1SR Abrams. With its pair of huge 40mm Autocannons, Modular Dropin Dropout Parascoping Tool, Multispectral Camera, Battlefield Linked Information Network, and Modular Missile Salvo capable of holding 72 compatible missiles, no target is safe from the Support Abrams. Anything within 2 miles of this combination Missile Artillery and Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle can be targeted and erased from this plain of existence.
tall plume
I like the idea of repurposing old tank chassis, but one problem I see with it is that your design is very big in terms of height
to show the size a bit more
And everything above the chassis is the height of what, 1.5x the chassis? (excluding the mounted turret)
tight mortar
Yeah and that front slope... I would love to be in another MBT against that profile. And that external missile launcher... better have great armour
tall plume
Yeah the slope is also a problem, to be fair its an AA tank though so it doesnt necessarily need quite as good protection as a normal MBT (I'd say atleast)
but that depends on the doctrine of the army that is using it
tight mortar
Modular Missile Salvo capable of holding 72 compatible missilesLOL... How big is that launcher?
tall plume
thats gotta be some tiny rockets if theres 72 of those in there
remote heart
72 approximately FGM-148 Javelin-sized Missiles
More Spikes if we're talking about modern equivalents.
I was doing this whole thing by eye to be fair.
tall plume
72 of these in there?
remote heart
Mhm.
Might be less than that. Like I said, I was drawing by eye.
Even if halved, that's still a stupid amount of AT, AA, and AP support.
tight mortar
For AA... maybe 72 of these
tall plume
1.1 metres a missile
so you could fit in 7 missiles across the whole length of the tank chassis with 0.2 metres to spare for everything else
this is just by eye, but I doubt you can fit 72 javelin missiles in your design even if you took out literally everything else
remote heart
Brb. Not-so-quick math.
Back. Quick math. Each salvo would have to be 4x4 not only to fit on the back of the turret but for a compromise between integrity and firepower. 16 still isn't too bad but is considerably less.
I was rrrrrrrrrrreaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off with that one. I'll amend the design while I have time.
tall plume
Btw just to have something to visually show the size of rockets/missiles
remote heart
Sure. Whatcha got?
tall plume
This is a BM21 which has 40 2807 x 280 x 252 mm rockets
now imagine somewhere around that thing cut in half stuck somewhere in your tank, and that almost twice
(as in the actual rocket pods, not the whole truck)
remote heart
Huh..
tall plume
Oh also those rockets are unguided
and also the back of the rocket pods is open
so either you leave a hole in the bottom of your tank, or you use a neat compressed air (or something like that) system which takes up space aswell
tight mortar
I mean... this is the HMMWV Avenger...
tall plume
Oh yeah could've used that aswell
tight mortar
See how big and complicated that launcher is
remote heart
There is a small space for the gas to vent between the chassis and the salvo in my design already.
remote heart
I love the Avenger. Its so dumb but great.
tall plume
because the issue isnt as much the exhausted gas itself, but rather the backblast of the missiles burning your tank
I doubt the tankers want to be roasted alive
tight mortar
Your tank gets wrecked by this anyway...
tall plume
Heh
tall plume
But yeah I do quite like the idea of reusing old chassis
tight mortar
Check out the Russian Battlebus against the US one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weq73KLd6wM
remote heart
As do I. Saves money and gives them new life.
tall plume
Yep
remote heart
Just got an idea to help with the angling issue.
Just move the guns back a bit and just make the digital sights 3d with 1 multispectral cam per gun.
I'm not an expert on this bs honestly.
tall plume
and just make the digital sights 3d with 1 multispectral cam per gun.
~~I dont have a clue what you said, but it sounds smart 
~~
remote heart
Maybe 3D was the wrong term. I'd be like aiming down a pair of VR Googles.
tall plume
Hm sounds interesting
Btw since its not exactly laid out in your earlier description, what exactly is this Tank supposed to do?
tight mortar
Die?
tall plume
heh
remote heart
Its a combination of many things, Heavy IFV, Short Range Missile Artillery, and Self-Propelled Anti-Air Gun.
tight mortar
Sorry ๐
The turret actually reminds me of the concept art for the M1A3 in the 90s
remote heart
Not gonna lie, I based this who thing of off the Gepard SPAAG.
HOLY SHIT
I've driven that thing around and annihilated everything I came in contact with.
tight mortar
Heavy IFV... I ain't taking my men into that death trap ๐
tight mortar
IFV...
remote heart
This HIFV, like its Russian counterpart; the BMPT-72, does not carry troops.
tight mortar
Wait what? If it don't carry troops it is not an IFV
tight mortar
Infantry Fighting Vehicle
tall plume
Huh
"An infantry fighting vehicle (IFV), also known as a mechanized infantry combat vehicle (MICV),[1] is a type of armoured fighting vehicle used to carry infantry into battle and provide direct-fire support.[2] The 1990 Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe defines an infantry fighting vehicle as "an armoured combat vehicle which is designed and equipped primarily to transport a combat infantry squad, and which is armed with an integral or organic cannon of at least 20 millimeters calibre and sometimes an antitank missile launcher"."
I always though APC's carried troops and IFV's had bigger guns and supported the infantry
tight mortar
Yeah, the BMPT is a Fire Support Combat Vehicle, not an IFV
remote heart
I must have made a mistake in my terminology. My bad.
smoky panther
@remote heart the thing is, the Abrams is already an awesome "support vehicle". Adding this new turret is only a downgrade. Why would DoD pay to downgrade the battle strength of their tanks?
The Abrams is widely considered to be one of the best tanks in the worlds - not because it's the absolute best at any one thing, but because it's pretty damn good at everything. It's a solution to 99% of problems - if you got something that needs to be blown up, the Abrams can probably blow it up.
Beyond that, it's standardized. Our engineer vehicles are built to specifically support the size of the Abrams - the weight, the height, hell even our ammunition cranes only just reach the loading ports. Adding a turret like that would mean that you need new engineering vehicles that can now service something that is maybe 35-40% taller, and undoubtedly heavier.
So...
- 40mm Bofors = a downgrade to a main cannon, and redundant due to the variety of other vehicles the US already fields (APC's, IFV's, aircraft)
- Multispectral Cameras = The current M1A2 has decent resolution on the camera, thermal, night, it doesn't need any upgrade here.
- CROWS = I believe you meant periscoping, but the M1A2 is already being rekitted with a CROWS kit (many have already been upgraded and redeployed, combat proven) - periscoping unneeded, as it's the tallest point on the tank already. Periscoping a ridiculously heavy system like an M2 CROWS would require an expensive/heavy/cumbersome system.
- Radar = what sort of radar? Radar is best employed from the air - it's pretty ineffective when it's low to the ground unless you're looking for aircraft within visual line of sight. Most deployed Abrams are already kitted with the Trophy system now.
main spade
i personally agree that a bmp-3 styled coaxial autocannon of 20 or more millimeters of caliber would be a very good addition
for an anti infantry capacity like our IFVs
smoky panther
- Missile Salvo = We already have a lot of ways to employ missiles. A barrage of missiles doesn't really suit modern combat - you generally only need to take out one or two specific targets before you get a chance to rearm.
main spade
also i just realised that guys RFP mentioned 20mm as well
smoky panther
@main spade if you didn't have to take the negatives of having a coaxial autocannon, it'd be great.
main spade
afaik thats kindof the minimum for HEI, HEDP, etc type ammo in large amounts
i mean im not saying just slap the baby in, probably wouldnt be htat easy
main spade
but it has significant utility
main spade
so a redesigned turret might be worth it
main spade
its low cyclic rate makes it not so great comparatively
if you can immediately repeat on a target that you narrowly didnt kill
thats quite nice
the coaxial machine gun doesnt realy have anywhere near the same range or explosive capability an autocannon does
smoky panther
But there's never been an instance of an Abrams becoming overwhelmed.
main spade
well yeah usually they arent put into positions they cant handle
smoky panther
And there's never been a complaint of an Abrams not being able to kill infantry
main spade
im talking about expanding its acceptable deployment envelope
smoky panther
And... the guys in the M1A2 generally don't miss. It's 100% point and click. No ranging/etc nessecary.
main spade
saying 'it hasnt gone wrong yet' in this day and age is silly because the army is quite good at understanding the capabilities of its vehicles and controlling for that to avoid casualties
of course it hasnt gone wrong yet
remote heart
Later when the tank needs to be replaced was the only reason I made this.
smoky panther
So you're saying, there should be a bigger turret to support a coax that historically has never been needed, to support a capability that's already being met quite well, even though it will present a larger kill target and be at a higher cost.
main spade
i agree with higher cost, i dont neccesarily agree with the other assertions
it would require a turret redesign
that would be a big program
smoky panther
There is no extra space in the turret
main spade
because what im talking about would be a turret that is extremely dense in capabilities
main spade
as an aside
this is the sort of turret i was referring to when i said bmp-3 style
i aknowledge the thing isnt particularly great
smoky panther
Yes, but that is a different type of tank with a ton of other drawbacks.
And would last only a few seconds upon being noticed by an Abrams.
main spade
i think given more modern technology it would probably be possible to reduce some of the space demands on the turret
you could probably do an equivalently effective two man turret by doing away with a dedicated loader
i know humans are still faster loading mechanisms than autoloaders for the 120 mm sorts of calibers
smoky panther
The loader has more jobs than just loading ammo
main spade
but im talking about new technology
smoky panther
And autoloaders are quite big
main spade
well yes and they also are prone to mechanical failure
so youd probably want room for the crew to manually load if it failed
for instance damage that didnt immediately liquify the whole crew
which as i understand it
is still a thing that can happen sometimes
well. internal compartment damage i mean
smoky panther
If the compartment is penetrated, I'd assume everyone is dead or inop.
main spade
i mean
more reasonable today than in the past
that does ameliorate some of the older concerns about autoloaders though
usually if it became damaged somehow, the vehicle has been in some way made totally inoperable
either you didnt get through the huge amount of armor, or you have enough energy left over to do quite a lot
so a relatively fiddly mechanism might be more acceptable than it was in the past
smoky panther
As I was saying - you can't just shrinkray stuff.
You'd have to compromise in functionality or armor.
main spade
i mean literally you can, thats what they did for the f-16s gun
smoky panther
And GD prides itself on the armor of the Abrams
main spade
you can apply engineering to reduce the size of mechanisms
been done for ages
i personally think it might be worthwhile
smoky panther
Moving the location of the F16 gun and timing rounds != shrinkray
main spade
the whole mechanism was reduced in size
thats why maintainers hate opening it up and replacing parts so much
smoky panther
The Abrams is jam packed - there is zero room inside it. I've been inside it
main spade
minding that was in fact a tradeoff against maintainability
smoky panther
I am 6'2" - I do not have any capability of moving inside the Abrams.
main spade
well i mean i have been saying basically re-engineer the whole turret
smoky panther
There is 100% not room for them to change anything. The barrel takes up the bulk of the turret interior, followed by the humans
How do you make a 105mm a smaller 105mm?
lmao
How do you make the human a smaller human?
smoky panther
But the loader has other jobs
Give the loader jobs to the other 3, and their cognitive bandwidth is stretching
main spade
what jobs are we talking
my understanding from talking to a tanker guy i know is the loader is fairly replaceable
like if he vaporizes someone else can keep loading
which was part of the idea behind not having an autoloader
other crew can take over for that duty
minding at that point in time the abrams thickest armor offered 300mm of protection instead of like 1500+
so a penetration that didnt totally destroy everything inside was more plausible
smoky panther
The loader not only has spotting jobs, but radio jobs, and his own gun to man.
If the Abrams is penetrated, assume everyone dead.
And keep in mind, the Abrams has only been penetrated a few times.
main spade
afaik commander is generally doing the comms
smoky panther
The commander is in charge of comms
main spade
as well as spotting with his little like
smoky panther
The loader still has comms
main spade
pod thingy on the roof
then gunner is also looking around
and loader is mainly there to
be ready to load as needed
smoky panther
Yup
But he also has other jobs
Now if you take an autoloader that is around the same size, or bigger, than the loader
That can't man a gun
Can't talk on a radio
Well, you got a shit replacement.
main spade
its not a given that it would be as crappy as past autoloaders