done
#ip_rights_violations
dull moon
mint edge
is it still the deep zone guys your fighting?
dull moon
i think this is general speaking
mint edge
not in tims case
amber eagle
yes
tight copper
People that want stuff very hard always get it
there is no way to block that, it is only possible to block it from the masses that do not know how or do not want to do the effort or just want to stick to legal
I think encryption is as far as it goes
mint edge
yea i mean people can rip assets from triple a games with huge budgets and the money to protect their license
their stuff isnt safe so neither is ours
grand oyster
Forza is an example, their content gets ripped but gets dealt with rather quickly iirc
mint edge
the most you can do is simply force dependancies on more and more pbos
to make simple pbo theft a hassle
if somebody just rips the model then theres really not much to be done
soft egret
Just only distribute your Mods in very low quantity. And force them to use an additional program that enforces real copy protection ๐
That's why my groups Music pack is doing. It works for us ^^
amber eagle
the people darkzone got my models from apparently used a 3d ripper
grand oyster
That is a way to scare people away if they need additional stuff to use it, surely
I wouldnt feel comfortable if I had to use an additional program in order to use a mod unless its either well known or from someone like BI
soft egret
It's actually also not thaaat hard to do it on a large scale.. Battleye is the Problem there tho.
Already talked about that. And kinda offtopic. So no need to do it again
tight copper
Can you force a mod to check wheter a certain EXE is installed ?
soft egret
If your Mod requires an Extension to function that is Battleye whitelisted. Yes.
Easiest protection is to force everyone to leave your Mod folder Named as default and obfuscate your addon.
Script checks if folder name matches. If not kill mission.
That way your folder name is always there and they atleast can't put their name on it
grand oyster
Yeah is there any resources for doing that by any chance?
soft egret
What? The script part?
grand oyster
Yeah
soft egret
configSourceMod (configFile >> "CfgPatches" >> "yourEntry") -> @yourMod
grand oyster
Cool Ill have to have a browse once Im home
amber eagle
@soft egret where do you add that? In a mission file or addon config?
amber eagle
that's called within a mission or addon?
soft egret
in a script.
It is a script command.
amber eagle
soooo....either or? I'm not that familiar with scripts
soft egret
everywhere where scripts work. Which is everywhere.
mint edge
@amber eagle you can probably use the fact that they used a 3pripper on official BI content aswell as more evidence against them
they have broken bis license
amber eagle
darkzone didn't use the ripper. another group use the ripper to import assets to stalker
mint edge
ah
amber eagle
then somehow darkzone got a hold of this content, which includes both my stuff and DayZ stuff
dull moon
that's called within a mission or addon?
you can call any script within a mod. like you can call a custom rotor fold script animation of a heli or whatever you want
obfuscate the check script, insert the call for the script on a random line in your addon/vehicle config, also obfuscate the config
amber eagle
Obfuscate as in ebo, right?
soft egret
ebo is encryption. Obfuscation is different
Obfuscation is just making it unreadable for humans
amber eagle
Does that work for .paa
soft egret
no
only scripts
and it can give files filenames that can't be saved to disk on NTFS
fossil basalt
Sorry, been away for a bit. Had a thought, maybe not a good one, but a thought none the less. Create a private Steam account. Upload your work to a non-public workshop. Let it sit for 60 days. Then publish it under your creator account. Then when someone tries to file a DMCA on you (for your own work), Valve will have all the proof they need on their own servers.
grand oyster
"non public workshop" If its not public how would you use it?
You could upload the mod on your general account / arma account and make it private, friends only or public
fossil basalt
By letting it "stew" prior to release, only you know when it was originally uploaded (and have all the necessary info to back up a claim)
You the creator could have more than one account/workshop. One for proof of creation and one for releases.
amber eagle
From what I understand with DMCA once a counter complaint is filed, which there's no way to prevent, it doesn't matter what proof you submit to the third party hosting site. Unless they get a court order injunction they'll reinstate the stolen content.
Nothing stops someone from filing a counter complaint
steady adder
Apart from if it does end up in a court of law, and they're found to have counter-filed illegally, they'd presumably be given some sort of punishment, jail or monetary fine? Perhaps they're banking on it not going that far - sounds a dangerous game to play.
amber eagle
Regardless though, legal action can still be sought even after the stolen content is reinstated...
grand oyster
I imagine itd be a fine of some sort
dull moon
but therefor the law suit must be filed in the country of the violater iirc
and that can and will be a pita
i recieved some counter claims but they got sattled pretty quick. after giving valve a propper and detailed view to the original content (like a comparison list of content from our mod and the violating mod, thx to the export of the crawler), valve shut them down in no time
chilly silo
grand oyster
@mint edge ^^ What if he didn't use BIS tools but instead used some of the third party ones out there?
mint edge
he is literally
in arma 3 tools right now
after i clicked his workshop link in the thread
he had to use arma 3 tools
to upload the content to the workshop aswell
grand oyster
Oops, I didnt think to check
mint edge
the way i see it
grand oyster
I guess anything that's on the workshop cannot be sold or w/e the term was
mint edge
anything on the workshop has to go through arma 3 tools
grand oyster
^ Yeah
mint edge
because of publisher
grand oyster
I took a little more than 5 seconds to think this time ๐
mint edge
lol
a good way to test aswell is to post on the workshop telling them about the license
if the post is deleted
they are scumbags
easy
grand oyster
What if the mod suddenly "vanishes" good or questionable? ๐
mint edge
then he probably put it to private or friends only ๐
to sell non locked pbos for mp
for the life server to then repack themselves
and put on the workshop
pretty nifty operation he then has going
the "car" mod being metioned isnt even in his list of mods
thus im 90% sure ^ is what is happening
they add him to test out the vehicles, then pay him to get pbos that dont have a script breaking mp
grand oyster
Yea that's definitely ๐ค
soft egret
DId someone already forward that to Dwarden?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1115266106 Is that a Joke? The guy selling Mods.. Says you can only use his mod if it's used non-commercially?
proud flicker
Says you can only use his mod if it's used non-commercially?
I see no issue here. I intend to do the exact same for my releases, too. Free to use on non-monetized servers.
And until there is a way I can enforce some kind of revenue off monetized servers using my stuff, it won't change.
soft egret
I know. The issue is. That he is selling his Mods illegally. And telling everyone else that it's forbidden to do so.
proud flicker
Ah yeh, but hypocrisy of these people is no news. :/
echo orchid
moreover he is selling the mod not the meshes, because none of the meshes are even his own
carmine folio
Interesting point bi originally had stuff in server monitization rules to prevent the above, got removed at some point.
You can upload to workshop without publisher it's just a hassle todo so.
Still crappy move if he just ported the assets into arma
carmine folio
still doesn't make it ok
native mist
I'm not saying it is
Something should've been done a while ago, sadly it hasn't
But that gyazo shows another guy who 'puts models into ArmA 3' and then asks you to purchase them
Hmm, I wonder if those 1333 hours may have been used to do with these cars...
Anyway, my point is if this wants to be dealt with your gonna have to go deeper then you think :/
faint nacelle
send link to the email in the channel description
Thats been discussed in this channel many times despite it going off topic.
people here do know it
native mist
I can't get on my PC to email properly till Tuesday ๐ฆ
faint nacelle
well im sure he will be there then too
native mist
I'm pretty sure red has been reported before, but he's not stopped it and been doing it for ages
faint nacelle
id guess eventually he would lose interest setting up new accounts
if valve really wanted they probably could trace his dummies to him
but thats up to V to do
native mist
You think those screenshots will enough for he 2nd guy?
His profile is private annoyingly
native mist
Aight, as he probably has blocked me now lel
faint nacelle
nah its private all the way
native mist
Well I mean, he removed me, then obviously I can't screenshot much more without making a new account sadly
native mist
Well it's usually something like forza or NFS so probably yeah lol
faint nacelle
indeed
native mist
All very 'custom' content lol
Well anyway I'll email next Tuesday, and then we'll see if anything happens
fervent needle
That terrain looks so good
tulip nexus
I don't think they believe in oversaturation
carmine folio
chernobyl life, where the ground glows at night :3
tight copper
Did it ever occur to anyone, that the life community explodes from cop cars stolen from different games , which is oviously because of facination with cops while they are basicaly stealing?
The irony
mint edge
depending on which ass backwards part of the world they live in
odds are they are making a living off selling pbos for arma
most like servers charge the kids enough to pay big money for new mods
grand oyster
http://www.exilemod.com/topic/24246-mod-combination/?do=findComment&comment=174358 < "It's ok to reupload other peoples mods"
fossil basalt
Just point him to the Steam subscriber agreement section 6 D.
chilly silo
dull moon
๐
grand oyster
โ ๐
chilly silo
which one lol
grand oyster
I assume the "CPU" guy, I decided I wasn't gonna bother starting a discussion/argument with him.
dull moon
@queen wing
if i get it right, this mod contains USAF also:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1118747071
content list:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7szfaHIJkpjUTIxNEFRRFhqMkE/view
dull moon
queen wing
Thanks @dull moon o
minor sonnet
well I was gonna crawl the crap out of this but keep getting error... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1118144529
3.3gb, looks total legit
coral torrent
What's the error?
minor sonnet
Internal server error
HTTP-Referrer: No referrer
Path: /resultsummary
er.. are you supposed to append the workshop number to the url?
figured there would be a field or something.. the first time I tried loading it up it asked me to log in, tried logging in to steam and then it went kaput
river spear
@minor sonnet https://arma3.workshopcrawler.com/resultsummary?id=1122
Thats quite a lot
jovial karma
hey, Is the current iteration of KickAss weapons pack acceptable or is it going to get taken down again?
fossil basalt
KickAss's content has never been acceptable to use. And in the off chance that he suddenly goes legit, it should still be boycotted. He can always redeem himself, as others have, but i doubt he will.
sullen lichen
https://units.arma3.com/unit/theseusservicedayzrp stole the name and logo of my mod https://github.com/Theseus-Aegis/TheseusServices
I reported the unit on the units site already, should I do anything else or will that get looked at?
fossil basalt
Maybe send a follow-up message to Bohemia Beck as well.
sullen lichen
will do, cheers
broken lotus
@fossil basalt I love KickAss' mods; Seeing how I don't care about copyright at all.
fossil basalt
Trouble is they're not his. Thieves will be dealt with accordingly.
tight copper
THen you support a thief
You are part of the problem here
Also enjoy my blocking, goodbye
dull moon
@broken lotus
it's a matter of time, sooner or later his mods will be deleted and if he continues his account will be removed also
echo orchid
๐๐ถ ๐
next zenith
almost all the Kickassยด mods are in fact Key Armoryยดs weapon packs
he just stole them and said that the "KA" means Kickass
echo orchid
there is 0 content that is original there, everything is a rip
stealing from a thief, well done there
dull moon
a double negative doesn't mape a positive here...
echo orchid
@dull moon i was being sarcastic
dull moon
i know, just my 2ct ๐
carmine folio
Its APL-SA
Thanks anyways for heads up
edit: Would be nice to get some mention of reupload / credit though :/
Ahh its over 3GB insize.
Guessing its a standalone version that doesn't require CUPs
mint edge
i cba to download it to see what else is in there
river spear
@mint edge
How about I provide a service where you put in a workshop object, it downloads the object on the server and provides you with a list of files, then you can pick what specific files to download
mint edge
that would be useful
echo orchid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PKL3323wkQ
more life "original" content soon to be released!
fervent needle
yo sick
fossil basalt
shines hammer in preparation
sullen lichen
I still got no reply about that unit stealing mod's name+logo :/
fossil basalt
I'll raise the issue personally. Give me a min.
sullen lichen
I PMed BohemiaBeck here on Discord as well
fossil basalt
PM
fallow stump
Anyone care to help me out with a concern of legality in terms of using licensed content?
faint nacelle
drop your question == usually gets faster answers.
fallow stump
Right. I'm wanting to make a multiplayer mission that has out of bounds triggers with sound, and I'd like to use the Battlefield 4 voice prompts for when you go out of the mission area. Is that going to rustle any jimmies? I'm just doing this for fun and won't be making any money off of it.
faint nacelle
yes that would quite likely break EAs EULA
and IP
simply put using anything made by someone else without explicit permission that its free to use is infringment of the makers rights
fallow stump
Is there any way to find out if they give a shit?
faint nacelle
if you ask them they do.
they sell you the right to play the game they make
not rip it apart and use the content on another game
fallow stump
Can't contact EA without an account. Lol. Time to find other avenues of approach.
At least not over the interwebz
Oh wow, nice. Found a whole area dedicated to this.
safe arrow
And there is still a difference if you use the mission just for your own (and friends) without uploading it anywhere open (then you nearly can do whatever you like). Or if you want to make it public on things like Steam, Armaholic etc. then you have to carefully look after tose permissions and rights.
fallow stump
My aim is to make the mission a Team Deathmatch for lots of people to enjoy, so I went ahead and sent an Email to EA. We'll see what happens! If I get it, good, if not, oh well. Sun still comes up.
fossil basalt
@safe arrow When you "privately" steal a thing for personal use, its still Stealing.
Also, condoning/suggesting/promoting such activity on an Offical Discord is not the wisest move.
mint edge
if you want to use a games content, you will search high and low for an official statement by the company representing their stance, if you cannot find it then you will not use their content
simple
this isn't gmod there are rules here xD
fossil basalt
Another thought to consider is that there are some very talented people here, I'm sure sounds of that kind could be recreated "in the spirit of". This community has voice actors and sound engineers, it wouldnt hurt to ask around.
fervent needle
Lots of free sound bite websites around
Orr fiverr.com pay someone to record the sounds you need
$5 for a few hundred words ๐
amber eagle
Why not record your own sounds for missions?
mint edge
because that takes effort
dull moon
Hehe, less then fighting with EA over a dmca ๐
fervent needle
Well if he can't create them then pony up some dollar
All an easier solution vs dmca takedowns from EA lol
lilac swift
'Scuse me, with regards to the Kickass/Keys Armory mods, since you say they were both rips, do you happen to know what the original is? Or was the original source not even made for ARMA/uploaded for public use?
(Apologies in advance if I don't reply any answers, chances are I've fallen asleep since it's 5am)
grand oyster
I think, they're ripping content from other games
fervent needle
^
lilac swift
Would make sense. The Beretta Storms and MRC were very prominent in the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter games. And then the whole Agent 47 part.
Ah well, shame, really wanted to use the GRAW weapons.
atomic plaza
Storms in Arma3 don't make sense since they are chambered in Pistol Calibers
upbeat token
Hey just wondering what steps a scripter can take to protect their work. And what I can actually do if people rip content of me.
Which is soely my creation
carmine folio
The best method to secure your sqf code. Is get the server to send it to a client. Don't put it an addon or missionfile
or that
fervent needle
the best way is simply never release it
upbeat token
@carmine folio Yes that's what I do, however with the growing increasing amounts of hackers using external tools to gather code or even deofuscating it seeks for me to wonder if it got past that stage. What can a creator do?
carmine folio
Nothing else you can do
Deofuscating is pretty easy todo, once you know how it works
upbeat token
exactly, it's annoying to think that.
can't I even file DMCA's etc for if it went that way because how I see it I don't want to commit myself to creating something for someone to steal and then me not to be able to do anything about it
carmine folio
If you can prove its your code no reason you couldn't file DCMA, its up to you to defend your IP.
Personnally its just more hassle that its worth imo, when its just SQF.
Just expect people to be looking at your mission file etc
Its alot less hassle when you the content is on steam workshop versus a random armaserver missionfile.
upbeat token
well hopefully my serverside code will solve a lot of my worries, despite that I do seek to branch of into else languages like yourself I believe with extDB
amber eagle
Or...get away from the computer and go enjoy the outdoors???
grand oyster
That's boring
When I work and get fresh air outdoors I get bored and want to go home and play arma again
I ended up playing for most of the day yesterday or the day before as I had just finished workk, gotten home from holiday and relaxed enough to playy it
amber eagle
lol I was expecting you to add fresh air is toxic
dull moon
I worked hard for my basement skin color and not gonna jeopardizing it with direct sunlight...
thorn gate
the sun is a deadly laser!
dull moon
Worse than โhans, bring ze flammenwerferโ
tight copper
I always thought you where such a sinner you will incinerate instantly when you set a foot into sunlight
amber eagle
lol it's pretty bad when you get done working on a project for hours on the weekend and you step outside hissing at the sun like Dracula.
rapid cairn
Someone reuploaded a bunch of mods (that are not his and are already on the workshop), and made a collection... http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=966055502
Also, Suprise Suprise... It's for a lifemod
vast notch
Wow, some Arma drama going on there ^^
safe arrow
@rapid cairn : Well Collections are fine and are no "Reuploads". This is the way all of those "reuploaders" should go, as they are only a collection of links to the original mods without touching them (and it would allow multiuse without having the same mod X-times...). Unfortunatelly most users are too stupid to use them....
rapid cairn
yeah.... I know that collections are fine.I just linked the collection of all the stolen mods. Most of which (if not all) were already on steam.
hallow lark
Anyone know if this is from Dark Zone Stalker Mod?
https://i.imgur.com/ubUV8Lqr.jpg
Using some Desolation Redux code and i had some questions regarding their mods licensing.
compact merlin
A few time ago this ADT stalker mod (https://vk.com/adt_68) was on DayZ SA engine, but in glorious A2 times they tryed to port a lot of content from SA to A2. I believe, they try it one more time
hallow lark
I found the VK site. Was just hoping one of them was on here instead of having to sign up for VK
carmine folio
One question
I am creating a M67 grenade
but a modding team already made it
would it be a copy if we release a m67 grenade mod too?
next zenith
nope
it cannot be a copy unless you steal their mod
if you make your own mod
it wont be copy
carmine folio
Didn't even know that there is a M67 mod already
then someone told me
so no way of stealing
next zenith
M67 is in CUP aswell
faint nacelle
the M67 is not their invention
carmine folio
i see
faint nacelle
they just recreated it in 3d form
carmine folio
thank you ๐
faint nacelle
the model they created is their intellectual property
but not the concept
that belongs to whoever designed the grenade in the first place
carmine folio
probs he's dead
faint nacelle
then the company who makes the grenade owns the ip I would assume
tight copper
That is an interesting discussion though, If I model a Challenger 2 can BAE Systems sue me over that?
Some told me they can some tell not
faint nacelle
dunno for sure
it makes sense they could
like games as far as I know need to license the rights to use real names
or thats my impression of it anyway
ans why Arma series use fictional names
rarely the models themselves are 1:1 on the originals
amber eagle
There's a difference between being sued for IP infringement and trademark infringement. Some companies tend to turn a blind eye toward ip infringement, like a TV show using a car but blacking out the company logo
Sort of the same thing with firearm in video games, like taking a H&K Mp5SD and renaming it 9mm MpSD
It's still obviously a Mp5SD, but they avoid trademark infringement by renaming it.
mint edge
like in China where trademark laws basically don't exist
tender hawk
To follow on to what Tim said, I've more than once used the example of Battlefield 3 where it was either U.S. military designations (public domain) or fictional renaming (i.e. the Magpul PDR-C being renamed "PDW-R" despite the real-life counterpart never publicly coming to fruition)
chilly silo
@Don_prince (AJ)#1088 The UK MoD owns the UK Military Land series designations it doesnt actively protect them. BAE Systems are pretty much the same. The only time you'll hear from them is if you use their trademarks or portray them in a bad light.
When I was doing research for my A2 airweapons pack i got an email from the Eurofighter Gmbh PR team to ask if i wanted anything in particular. (My pics kept showing up in searches in the middle of theirs) And I got a 'thank you for showing interest' from MBDA when my pics of SPEAR 3 missiles started appearing on defence industry/trade websites.
never got a complaint ....unlike Boeing who got upset about putting a modified version of their logo on a cartoon of an F-15 falling apart. but that was covered in Fair Use. But they were very polite about it and asked for it to be removed
carmine folio
@young dome No
young dome
hrm
neon crater
carmine folio
The author is not the original one. Sure you can go ahead and run it but there will be a DMCA request filled shortly
neon crater
๐ค
young dome
yea i seen that
thats why i came here to ask
thanks @neon crater
and thanks @carmine folio
neon crater
sure.
bold garden
https://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/711dtg/so_there_is_a_thief_claiming_a_song_from_bis/ did BI already look into this?
pure mountain
Copy-pasting my comment from general-chat, maybe it's more applied here:
There seems to be an album that got released a few weeks back by some Persian artist that features a track that it also used in Arma 3, and now a video using that Arma 3 track got a copyright claim made by the Persian artist.
Arma 3 - Underwater
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRCDhMxkHg
Siavash Sadrazodi - Octavus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtX_7Gr08s
Now, I do not know which party was first (according to Spotify, the album was released under a different artist name back in 2010), but it sucks if peoples Arma 3 videos get blocked by another artist while they used a track from the Arma 3 soundtrack. Can we get a word from BI what people can do if their video do get blocked due to this?
Also refering to this section in the Game Content Usage Rules
Most of the music can be freely used subject to our general rules, e.g. all music from Arma games. **Sometimes we license music from 3rd parties and subsequently donโt own the rights ourselves and cannot give permission for you to use music** or other audio from the game. If this is the case weโll let you know, safest to check first with us. But we can confirm that the music in Carrier Command: Gaea Mission and some of the music in Take On Helicopters is not available for re-use.
safe arrow
@young dome Original creator of Napf in A2 was someone called Momo from Swiss. The guy on steam is from the UK. The original thread for Napf: https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/129080-napf-island-beta/
pure mountain
thank you for contacting us.
Audio Track Underwater 2 was created by our audio composers and disputed content (audio loop) was taken from the Native Instruments Evolve bank and added into our composition. We did purchased the Native Instruments software under world-wide, royalty free, non-exclusive license.
In Native Instruments EULA section III paragraph 8 it is stated that :The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement.
We do believe that you can safely dispute the claim.
Best regards,
Karel Novรกk Legal department```Re: the song in youtube videos that were flagged?
fervent needle
The mods in this pack are already available through steam and have not been altered by us in any way. Copyright belongs to the respective owners/creators.. then why make your unit redownload what they already might have
๐
grand oyster
I wish everyone grasped the concept of a "collection"
fervent needle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxQ1gtDDKxE so easy a kid could do it
safe arrow
Especially since both of the creators already have some collections in their profile. That means they DO know how to do it... not understandable to me.
chilly silo
Possibly the best Cease and Desist letter ive ever seen. https://twitter.com/itsjamesherring/status/911134012785221632
midnight vine
That is amazing and it's pretty lenient for a big company like that.
carmine folio
@grand oyster - I'm not saying you're wrong, but there's more to the story for a lot of those packs. After you add so many mods to a server, the vanilla launcher stops working with them. I'm currently testing to see if that got fixed recently. Also, collections are less than useless. Members can't sub to a collection, they can only subscribe to things individually. So if you spend time keeping one up to date, it only helps the new people that want to play on your server download the bulk of the mods. If BI fixed the UDP packet size issue causing the launcher to not freak out after 20 mods, awesome. I think you'll see a lot of those packs go away. Until then for some people it's necessary. Still, maybe a large chunk of them are just idiots that don't know how to use collections or setup their servers.
white moat
Also, collections are less than useless. Members can't sub to a collection, they can only subscribe to things individually
Subscribing to all has the same effect though doesn't it? https://i.imgur.com/ppOLKjP.png
neon crater
I have over 200 mods, launcher doesn't freak out at all
carmine folio
Iโve never had an issue with mods, can load as many as I want, no collections required ๐คฃ
neon crater
On time i loaded 120, there was obviously some incompatibility but it ran just fine. Collections are good though
Just pres the little green arrow next to each
Instead of going to each workshop page
fossil basalt
@Major Mittens - I'm not saying you're wrong, but there's more to the story for a lot of those packs. After you add so many mods to a server, the vanilla launcher stops working with them. I'm currently testing to see if that got fixed recently. Also, collections are less than useless. Members can't sub to a collection, they can only subscribe to things individually. So if you spend time keeping one up to date, it only helps the new people that want to play on your server download the bulk of the mods. If BI fixed the UDP packet size issue causing the launcher to not freak out after 20 mods, awesome. I think you'll see a lot of those packs go away. Until then for some people it's necessary. Still, maybe a large chunk of them are just idiots that don't know how to use collections or setup their servers.```
Theres a simple answer to your statement. Those caught doing it will be DMCA'd and reported to Steam. Additionally, they will be banned from here and the Bohemia Forums for IP theft.while it might be a good initiative on paper, i wish you good luck with that, it is impossible to do...
fossil basalt
Those I've been involved with have been successfullt DMCA'd. And I have personally banned them from both locations. 100% success rate so far.
echo orchid
DMCA-ing is the easiest part. Matching username from steam with BIF username and discord username isn't
fossil basalt
Many are idiots and self incriminate
carmine folio
Nah the server query not having multi package support is a known issue. Its why people edit the mod.cpp/meta.cpp (to reduce the addon name length)
It prob doesn't effect much server owners, but it would be annoying if you run all the NIArms Addons from Steam etc
Shame BI never fixed it
mint edge
mod authors should try and combine their mods together then to avoid people like ^ packing all of their seperate releases together + more
I know a few mods which there are no uploads with all aspects of the mod instead multiple uploads with parts of them
some for obvious reason but not obvious to random players
carmine folio
Majority of people repackage addons for no reason.
I have seen straight reuploads for stuff already on steam.
Some server owners like the ability to push updates when they like to.
Hopefully the will get DCMA'ed in time
The server query issue is an arma issue, (don't believe the server rpt will warn you about it).
If that was sorted you could have as many steam addons as you like.
echo orchid
@mint edge mod authors should do whatever the fuck they want to do, it is their prerogative
mint edge
and i plan to make anything i release into a few uploads as possible ๐
grand oyster
mint edge
not really anything that requires it yet
maps are basically all in 1s
but ive seen maps that are dependant on like 6 different other workshop addons
echo orchid
true, but then again for maps, if it requires data made by someone else (be it vegetation or structures)
that is the way it works
for other stuff, spreading mods in parts - like weapons, vehicles, units etc
makes things easier on some
that said, i do not touch maps that requires me to download 6 more other addons to begin with
mint edge
well not to bash or throw names
but niarms specifically does have a mod setup with all of their pbos in one
however it is only on their website
compared to each individual weapon type seperate on the workshop
so if you want to use niarms from the workshop you need around 10 mods loaded
as an example
that is usually what prompts kids to repalc and reupload alot of stuff
among dozens of other trivial reasons
echo orchid
@mint edge have you thought that from a dev perspective
it is easier to update individual files
and also, it allows some people to use just say p22x and not the entire thing?
mint edge
completely
but their all in one pack isnt on the workshop officially
so they get people taking it and uploading it illegally
xd
i havent really seen anyone else do that
but just another reason for people to illegally upload work
echo orchid
while i understand your point
- it is an exception
- it is still his prerogative (besides AU net being shite, so there are more reasons)
i have over 1k RHS DMCAs since SW got mainstream
most are simple 100% re-uploads
fervent needle
That just boggles my mind... Why?
mint edge
Are you allowed to take content which is in part APL-SA data from arma samples modify them and relicense them under a different license?
OR are you allowed to take the data then identically copy it and redistribute under a new license?
dull moon
no
soft egret
https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma-public-license-share-alike
Section 3 a1 and b1
dull moon
but you can create a custom license based on APL-SA with additions like "no monetisation, ect"
soft egret
Section 1d Arma Public Share Alike Compatible License means a license listed at https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses as essentially the equivalent of this Public License.
https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses
mint edge
So taking a look at this GIF, and this quote
ComatoseBadger - Today at 5:04 PM
I remade them using the original as a shell to keep the same sizing etc
then I removed the shell
it is also identical uvmapping
soft egret
So... A completly selfmade Model. Without any remnants of the original?
identical. Or very close?
soft egret
If you completly build something yourself. You've made it yourself. No matter if there was a template you were looking at while building it
mint edge
i havent gotten a response as to what license he is trying to relicense it under
soft egret
If you don't build it yourself but reuse parts. Then you have to comply with that parts license
Theoretically you can rebuild something point by point and rebuild the UV map matching pixel-perfect. And create an exact match.
But.. why would anyone do that
mint edge
kk ty
carmine folio
"I remade them using the original as a shell to keep the same sizing etc "
Sounds like he had the original model in a 3d editor etc and built the new model around it. That would be a Derivative work imo
Pretty sure that addon is just some enterable a2 sheds, i would just avoid those assets.
Weird part is i got 3 mlods off him back in the day for some of the sheds. Literally told me anyone can use them
mint edge
i had them in one of my maps because he gave them to bigben for dsr which was aplsa and nothing was said about changing their license to begin with
he may well have "remade" all of them now but the source files on my p say otherwise about how original they are
lmao
i just took the samples and did a hack job interior for myself but doesnt change the fact im 99% sure it counts as a derivative
so its not rlly right
carmine folio
Note you can't retoactively change license etc, so if he gave you the mlods for another project & you mentioned its apl-sa. It really should be fine from legal point of view.
But there are just some sheds, wouldnt be to much work to make the samples enterable. Hardest part imo, is the textures
mint edge
na dude i did it in object builder in like 2 hours lmao
not top quality but acceptable
not to mention they obsucated their pbo
basically signaling they have something to hide lol
turbid flower
^ Or they don't want everyone pillaging/ripping it, too many dishonest people floating about these days
mint edge
the thing is most of those people
can access it
rip the model
and reuse it themselves
statement stands
its a derivative of aplsa
lmao
turbid flower
The point I was making is he put his own time and effort in to make it available to the community, if you want to use it, just ask, instead of ripping other peoples content apart
mint edge
the thing is i did ask like 3 months ago
and it was fine
but now it is not
even though its the same models ive had the whole time
compact merlin
Hello, time in time someone reports "pirate" A3 and DayZ:SA groups in russian social network vk. com
In last few months I saw three deletet groups with over 20k members.
If this person is here, could you help me to shotdown a group, which sells stolen mods?
echo orchid
@compact merlin which group(s) and which mods/
compact merlin
https://vk.com/myserverhelp?w=product-73823012_2262194%2Fquery
currently now they sell armstalker)
compact merlin
Server files, a few posts below was a few vehicles, and again serverfiles
Strange group. People buy this stolen and laggy serversides from here, open own copies of the servers - and every month in russian comunity borns and dies after a week about 5-6 new lifes and 1-2 armstalker parodies
keen trout
Weโve gotten reports that part of our mods are being sold to russins communities. And once the old version they get doesnโt work they come crying to us.
Almost always Life communities
green bison
Is this allowed? https://armaservices.maverick-applications.com/
Selling scripts???
I thought you could only sell in-game items that don't affect gameplay
languid fog
They've been around a while from what I remember. Seen some of their stuff ages ago
green bison
But they are selling mods that affect gameplay. I get mikero can sell his tools, you can even sell a script obfuscator or remote server tool, but mods for Altis Life?
Seems like this opens the door for modders to sell arma mods? @pliant oar
pliant oar
feel free to report that to the infringement department ...
green bison
Is there one?
vast notch
@green bison it's in the link to this channel
discuss there violations before sending email to infringements@bistudio.com , Arma 3 EULA : https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma3-end-user-license
vast notch
Not sure, but isn't that @river spear 's website?
soft egret
Yes it is.
Scripts are just text files.. Selling them is as legal as selling infistar.
Selling in-game items that don't affect gameplay only applies to Server monetization @green bison
It would only be not allowed if it was packed with BI tools.. considering it's a PBO with config and scripts... As long as they packed the unbinarized config with Mikeros tools.. Don't even know.. maybe Mikeros tools can also binarize without binarize.exe
green bison
No that's incorrect
soft egret
What's incorrect?
Should report it anyway and let BI decide.
But as long as they are literally selling self written text documents there is nothing you could do about it.
Just because these text documents could be used in Arma isn't enough.
https://www.bistudio.com/monetization
"Charging players to access your server, if the fees and associated perks do not affect gameplay in any way, is allowed."
I guess that's where you have the "I thought you could only sell in-game items that don't affect gameplay"
green bison
Yes, you may but only for the type of monetization specified in the Server monetization rules.```I guess if they are not using ANY BIS tool then maybe
soft egret
Yes.
green bison
but I doubt that
soft egret
That's what I just said
They can just pack their PBO with Mikero's packer.. And done.. Not using BIS tools is not hard
Or they could distribute the unpacked contents.. Like Infistar does afaik
green bison
Kinda opens the door to sell mods
soft egret
Well.. yeah..
green bison
That's why i'm asking ๐
soft egret
But you can't sue someone for selling text files that by coincidence are also usable as scripts in Arma.
dull moon
as long as the mods / models are not in p3d format... i guess so
soft egret
The stuff on that site looks like scripts and UI configs
green bison
and models
soft egret
Didn't see them yet
river spear
You can download the speedcamera model for it here
soft egret
They could binarize them using armake.. But armake isn't that far yet
river spear
The model is freely available for download on the webpage, the product does not include it
green bison
Ok so you're not using any BIS tools for these mods?
soft egret
On that side you linked there are 4 things. 2 are external tools.
Talent Tree framework is obviously script.
Navigator is script with custom UI and pictures that could be jpg instead of paa..
green bison
Yeah but there's a list of Altis Life mods too
soft egret
Where?
Ah found it
Yeah.. Don't see anything in there that's not just scripts/configs
If anyone want's to buy scripts they could just write themselves then.. yeah.. they can do that.
Just as they could hire a developer to write the scripts for them.
green bison
So basically, the community is now free to monetize mods.
soft egret
Has always been
If you write something in notepad... You could sell that if you want. Right? Or do you have any argument why that would be forbidden?
I'm sure BI is not fine with it. But they can't really do anything against it legally
green bison
No I'm not arguing that point. I'm stating that content for Arma created using their tools cannot be monetized unless it meets their monetization policy. Not sure how you prove if someone used their tools or not ๐
soft egret
It's not that easy... I think Mikero's packer add's a signature to the PBO
so if that's not there then you could guess that BI tools were used.
Ideally BI tools should add a signature to files so BI can easilly identify if BI tools were used
green bison
Brings up plenty of questions around IP ownership too, could someone claim those mods/scripts are stolen etc.
Funny how they sell the Obfuscation tool too
carmine folio
There are afew PBO Tools and some with sourcecode available.
Adding signatures to files prob won't work at this stage. (It would be nice though for likes of binarized p3ds etc)
green bison
We build ALiVE with Armake now
well and Mikeros tool lol
Doesn't Mikero's tools rely on BIS binarize?
cobalt creek
Question is: A Step in the right Direction + Worth it (easily copyable etc)?
soft egret
What you mean Dscha? My signature with BI tools thingy?
cobalt creek
Nah, selling Mods
soft egret
Only idiots buy scripts ^^
cobalt creek
^^ true
soft egret
Because they are unable to write them themselves
But the same idiots also hire developers to make stuff for them
cobalt creek
But i meant Mods in general (incl. Models etc)
soft egret
I don't really like the idea..
cobalt creek
Same
soft egret
Arma is a modding focused game.. Loosing the ability to easilly access all mods you want.. Would hurt Arma
cobalt creek
Like "Life" did (or the be more precise: 99% of their "Community")
green bison
I think that was BIS idea around their policy, to stop monetization of content for their game... assuming that no one was creating in game content without their tools...
and i get you can sell a text file lol
cobalt creek
What Scripts basicly are - Simple Textfiles ๐
soft egret
BI did all they legally can to stop mod monetization
Besides patenting the PBO file format or something like that ๐
green bison
Right, there's probably other things they could do if they wanted to around ensuring their tools have to be used.
carmine folio
Can't copyright a programming language in the EU.
There really is not much BI can do except add conditions to using thier tools
safe arrow
Well and you gotta tell the difference between a scripter creating and offering scripts on his website for money and those guys hiring scripters to do their work (for money) in this channel: #creators_recruiting
green bison
Not to get pedantic, but there's probably ways for RHS/CUP to sell their configs, new textures, new sounds etc and offer the models for free
cobalt creek
technicaly... yeah
soft egret
RHS yes.. CUP... Considering most of their stuff is ported stuff owned by BI.. Not really
green bison
Or any mod for that matter
cobalt creek
Same with Models, can't you export .p3d directly from Blender?
soft egret
yes.. With the blender toolbox I think you can
cobalt creek
So BASICLY -> Possible
soft egret
you have to binarize them tho.. which armake can do
green bison
You don't have to binarize models
carmine folio
@soft egret pretty sure blender toolbox has non-commerical license on it
soft egret
That might be
green bison
There's some limitations on Armake though right?
soft egret
Yeah.. Armake is not perfect
Animations missing AFAIK.. and maybe some problems with shadows
green bison
Interesting discussion..
cobalt creek
Anyway, technicaly it would be possible (tools could be optimized), but is it worth it?
soft egret
IMO no.. But.. If you are trying to pay your food as freelancer making arma Mods.. You'd think differently.
cobalt creek
Copy -> Upload to a private Server -> Let everyone download your payed mod -> (non)Profit ๐
green bison
Sell all content and "support" for your mod, give the base model(s) away for free (no textures etc).
cobalt creek
Doable
dull moon
or lowres models like a2 BAF and PMC
cobalt creek
IFA-Lite (texturewise)
vast notch
That's the old BI way, free includes low res textures, paid includes hi-res, like ACR, BAF etc
river spear
They werent joking with los res textures
cobalt creek
Yeah, but since you can't "secure" your stuff -> meh
river spear
It looked more like someone defined sections on each texture and put on a gradient from one color to another
Lowlowlow-res
vast notch
When you bought the A2 DLC's it was like someone removed the Vaseline from your eyes, iirc even the Armed SUV had more detailed wheels/texs
soft egret
I recently saw the A2 DLC SUV.. Man... That looked like it was in Arma 3 ^^
cobalt creek
Yep, the SUV's were my alltime Favorite
vast notch
The thing that was the best about those was the sound, in Arma 3 now, they are diesel ๐ฆ
cobalt creek
Looked very very well made, compared to the other Vehicles
Uh yeah, that deep deep "vroom", when you start the Engine... uhhhh, like a small eargasm
cobalt creek
yeah
fossil basalt
Ive always considered removing a bikini top a TACtical OPeration...
fossil basalt
Youโre right, worth investigating ๐
rapid cairn
Welp
It's got reuploads of Tetetts F18s, F14s, lesh's towing, Nimitz, Burnes, Cha LAVS (CUP LAVS),
fossil basalt
Yup, DMCA inbound
echo orchid
regarding selling mods - in theory i could sell a pack (model, textures, configs, scripts etc) and provide you with an instruction file to install the tools you need and .bat file that builds your addon, that you will run it yourself - voila
cobalt creek
technicaly, yeah ^^
fossil basalt
Yup
echo orchid
yeah not only technically, but also from a legal POV > not touching BIS non-commercial tools at all
tawny sentinel
Speaking of obfuscation, is it possible that people could build malicious code into their life mods or something similar? I'm just speaking hypothetically here, because I know how scummy these communities are.
Not including derivative works from BI assets, correct?
My apologies for the tag. Pure habit.
soft egret
Define malicious. Also I don't think this is the right channel for that
river spear
@tawny sentinel They can only mess with your game while it's on, worst case you restart the game and unload the mod
They can do stupid stuff in your profile namespaces too
And in case you don't trust these people: Never run a dll you don't know
Battleye blocks unknown dlls automatically on your client for your own good
golden pagoda
@river spear there is a reason why allVariables does not work on profile namespace in multiplayer ๐
soft egret
you can just fill profileNamespace up till the variables get corrupted
golden pagoda
so put some random elements in the profile variable names and you should be ok
well...
river spear
Since he said life mods, that could also include client mods
golden pagoda
there is a lot of shit you could theoretically do
river spear
And those can run code well before a multiplayer session
golden pagoda
another reason for me not to touch these life servers
river spear
@golden pagoda Any mod can do that ๐
golden pagoda
I know but I'm very picky about mods and they're usually trustworthy.
still... especially with the automatic updates via the workshop... this could easily get nasty
oh but I also make regular backups of my profile ๐
tawny sentinel
@soft egret Malicious code that runs outside of Arma after being run once as a addon.
soft egret
No
Not possible with a mission or a normal mod.
Only if they have a .dll extension
I didn't hear about a Life mod using a extension on clientside so far...
Besides if they use TFAR
tawny sentinel
It's a purely hypothetical, was just using life mods as they are most known for shady shit.
Anyways, I'll move this discussion somewhere else like you suggested.
bold stump
not sure how malicious code is in any way related to #ip_rights_violations or the discussion that was happening buuutt ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
mint edge
well since it concerns life mods obviously the malicious code in question is stolen
golden pagoda
hmm if stolen code steals data, does it become legit?
tawny sentinel
๐ค
bold stump
lol
carmine folio
When did arma add the APL-ND licenses?
dull moon
good question, but i guess not that long ago.
fierce ocean
@carmine folio APL-ND ? What is this?
tulip nexus
APL No Derivatives
seems to just replace the most common terms of Custom Licenses that were allowed to be ascribed to APL content
i.e. don't modify without permission
soft egret
@carmine folio So recently that google cache doesn't have them yet
so... The last couple days
echo orchid
chilly silo
thanks but its gone. whats was it?
chilly silo
ok thanks for whoever got it taken down or set them straight ๐
fossil basalt
You're Welcome @chilly silo
chilly silo
๐ whats was it the Typhoon?
fossil basalt
Eurofighter
chilly silo
cheers. Someone has been passing around a modded version of the Eurofighter Typhoon for a while now. It was modded by a certain midsized British themed GU it was bound to leak eventually., The little toads deny they have it but ive seen the screenies from their users
tulip nexus
was the German skins on this one
chilly silo
all the skin packs are being passed around
one cheeky shit asked me to help him "fix" the physx issues.
tawny sentinel
I hope you told him off real well
I would be infuriated if someone had the gonads to not only steal my content, modify it, and then ask for help with it, all without my permission.
chilly silo
I didnt tell him off. I just told his Mum on Facebook. Shes was really nice about it ๐
tawny sentinel
Haha
Wasn't that the kinda stuff that made Blastcore's creator leave the A3 community?
chilly silo
that kinda stuff has made a lot of people leave the community
tawny sentinel
Ugh, I know. Iwish there was some way to prevent that sort of stuff natively with community made addons. Oh well...
chilly silo
Shoot the thieving scum.
carmine folio
Short answer dumb question, is there a way to protect the missions I create from theft, I am having a situation where people join my servers just for my mission files, then use them on their server claiming the right's to them.
mikero's tools?
grand oyster
There's a way to kind of protect them
soft egret
Mikeros subscriber tools are one way to "kind of" protect them. But people can still just copy them.
You can also put a check in a script that checks the serverName. If no match then no mission
carmine folio
oh I like that, how would 1 go about this witchcraftery
soft egret
Get Mikeros subscriber tools, learn to script.
carmine folio
ok
thank you
Mikero's Dos Tools, or just the ObfuQF, I am reaslly just concerned mostly for the mission.pbo's
Can't decide which to get?
carmine folio
Yes, I don't mind, I guess the whole package can help me learn more, so 100% worth it.
Thank you, I looked at this before, but I wasn't sure, now I am 100% sure ๐
Cheers
compact merlin
best way to protect mission - put valuable code into server side
fossil basalt
Best way to protect a mission is to not do it. Create it so that everyone can enjoy it
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
safe arrow
Apart from encryption etc you could do the following:
- Hide snippets of random-code stuff in your missions that make them unique and easy to identify
- Make your stuff public in Forum/Armaholic etc. So everyone can see that its yours and other things are just copies.
- Make most things serverside i.e. harder to steal
Might still be a better way as unfortunatelly there is never 100% security that no one can steal that stuff
golden pagoda
- Make your stuff public in Forum/Armaholic etc. So everyone can see that its yours and other things are just copies.
^ this
I don't like how most life servers nowadays are turning into code-hogs that share little to nothing with the community.
safe arrow
Best sample is Tonics AltisLife when made public. Sure everyone copied and edited that code. But its still his stuff and everyone knows the origin. Same with SaMatras Wasteland and KotH or PlayerUnknown. Not to talk about DayZ and Dean Hall.. Make yourself and your stuff known and all will easily recognize cheap copies.
coral torrent
best way to protect mission - put valuable code into server side saldy this is not correct anymore, as a leak of all major gib server files INCLDUDING all serverside files showed.
If you make something which scales to a project side of AL, or Koth, then there is very little chance someone will copy it all and claim it as his work
Though little scripts and mission etc, those are copyied an rebranded on the daily basis
And NOT ONLY in the AL Community. There are so many people that rip off other peoples AI handler, or copy past a CBA function and put their author tag on it
So if you are small and yet now everbody knows you, and you put value on your conent beeing associated with you and only you, then yes you will need some kind of protection
Could be obfuscation, but encryption is better tbh, but arma has no sufficent encryption methods, and none for missions
One could argue that you can prevent servside files from beein stolen, but that only works to a cetain degree. People that have acess to the engine via memeory editing, or have any kind of scripting execution ability ingame are able to dump all your files, no matter what you do. There are only 1-2 ways that require a very very large setup and much traffic to keep all script conents serverside, and those are not publicly known and not suitable for content creators who just want to make a cool mission without spending ages on a serversetup for it
golden pagoda
arma can read files but it cant really list directory contents via script, or can it ?
coral torrent
indireclty, but there are ways. And people who want your stuff know them
soft egret
I'd know a way of protecting the serverside files from being stolen.. But that's not really something a beginner should do.. Or someone that just want's to protect his mission
coral torrent
Best protections agains IP theft, make your project awesome, do not steal yourself and publish it on the forums so everyone know you did it
Then it does not matter if a retard rebrands it, a arma user looks as his mission and says, i know this script / this mission from xyz topic
But no matter what you use, arma is a sandbox you will alaways get what you want from it
Its just a matter of how much time you want to invest so other's spend alot of time getting things back
fossil basalt
Sounds alot like what I said ๐
carmine folio
Thank you for all your input, I really do appreciate it, In the past all my stuff was public, recently, (yesterday) I had a person go on my server just for the mission file, a mission that I made 100% using only 3 scripts, all community shared, and 1 script I made up, and then this "person" decides to go on thier Discord and say I had stolen thier content and used it without thier permission, It made me really upset, as In the past I had acctually shared my mission with the server owner that he was/is apart of, so long story short, eventhough now, looking at it, I see the situation is so retarded, that I don't know how I can protect myself from this kind of crap in the future,
soft egret
Put your scripts on Github. The full commit history shows that you are definetly the author
carmine folio
yes, Like I made this mission from scratch and have had it on my public servers before thier "group" even exsisted, and they were apart of another group, They had even stolen my content before and I didn't really care too much because I have it on steam anyway, as I like to share, and learn together
main point is, I don't want to be accused of stealing my own content from a retard in the future, ๐ funny thing is I did put some snippets here and there, which are my mark, lmao
yes, some of my stuff is on git, mostly the missions are not yet,
I was to post a collection of my missions on git soon, untill this happened, now I don't know if I want to share ๐
soft egret
One guy once tried to steal my code.. It was open source and he could've just copy-pasted... But he made me so angry that I took the source offline and added anti-stealing measures... No one steals my stuff!
carmine folio
The funny thing is this "group" is still using stolen content, and even my script! lmao, I don't even know anymore, they cherry pick from my missions, and re-use old content, and say it's thiers because they put a sign up lmao
I know Right!
If the guy just asked me for it, I probably would have just given hgim a copy, anyone who has played my missions, know my style, and would know it's mine lol
I guess when your sheets good they try to steal it like a skeet. ๐
I mean though how can we copyright content? eventhough I have a copyright text in my readme, how can I enforce that?
carmine folio
true lol
soft egret
DMCA on Steam.
vast notch
https://simplicity-studios.ml/sqf/encrypt.html
Encrypt key parts of code in your mission file so it breaks it if used elsewhere
soft egret
That was essentially what I said before with checking the serverName. But as long as people could just remove the check it's not worth much
vast notch
Another thing to do in mission files is name variables/files something random that throws potential theives off the scent
carmine folio
I mean I don't really mind if people use my missions, hey we have fun, I like to share, my problem was being accused of stealing my own work, and this tool didn't even know it was mine and I was on his discord lmao
ok good point DB , i'll look into all these suggestions
soft egret
pack your stuff on Linux and put <>|?*! into the filename. That way it can't be extracted on windows.
But I think PBOManager might still be able to read them
carmine folio
haha yea, I should too!
soft egret
That is essentially what mikeros obfuscation does.
carmine folio
I mean I love to share, I just don't want to ever be accused of stealing my own content again
yea got ya,
to be honest, his tools look great, and makes it simple for me to learn that aspect of mission creations, I will probably start there.
Thank you again everyone for your help
I'm off to sleep!
golden pagoda
Is it worth going through all that trouble just because someone insists on beeing stupid ?
ignore him
strong jasper
๐
bronze oasis
Hello, I have a bit of an odd case on my hand. Usually I handle DMCAs on behalf of Faces of War on Steamworkshop, but this case is a little different. As a few of you probably know, there was a bit of controversy with the IFA mod recently, related to some textures and US uniforms, where one of the current FoW artists required everything he worked on for IFA pulled out of the mod. Well, some of the community got angry, and decided to reupload a version of the IFA mod, where these items were still present( http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1154578433 ). I tried contacting Valve via the DMCA form on the artists(Iodu and FoW) behalf, but I cannot get it taken down via that route..what on earth do I do then?
coral torrent
There is no note above the workshop item that there is a dmca claim on it
did you use the right forms?
bronze oasis
I did, have been in a email-convo with the DMCA department of valve, so the DMCA tag is gone now.
coral torrent
Valve is legally binded to take it down instantly after processing the claim, as its all US kind of stuff. The person which content you claim can counter claim it and then it may go to trial, but that does not happen too often, and I have seen in arma yet
bronze oasis
Well, this is a bit of an odd case and not as clear cut as a direct re-upload of FoW.
I am not on the IFA team, but the assets in this particular upload are partly FoW-territory(Specificly the US unis)
Its one of those zones with a bit of extra grey ontop.
coral torrent
Your claim needs to be on point, this may reqire naming specifig files and you need to be author of it, 100% nothing lese inthe file is from someone else
Then there is nothing that could stop a dmca
if there is any doubt about your ownership or if they clearly understood which files you refer to, they will put it on the stack of invalid signed dcma's and you get contacted asking you to fully fill out and sign it again
But if you are in contact with the dmca dep. at valve you should have specific info why or why not the dmca takes place
bronze oasis
They don't consider me to be the owner in this case, pretty much.
Even reffered to the fact that its a secondary upload of IFA, without the proper owners of the IFA mod being behind the upload to the workshop, but that was not enough either.
coral torrent
if they are not certain that you are the owner you have no chance
and if the doubt it but yoiu state legally binding that you are and there is just one little thing you did not think about you can get a sentance
safe arrow
Only the owner can run a DMCA, you cant do that in behalf of them. As you are not in their team, you cant do anything. Just point the IFA team to that upload and let it do themselves. Thats the way it has to work
bronze oasis
The question of ownership sorta boils down to, FoW uniforms in IFA wrapping paper. Its complicated, which is the issue at hand really.
cobalt creek
@bronze oasis I reported it to our internal Channel (IFA).
hushed escarp
yeah...let's see if they want to solve it actually
undone pier
we had already asked him in private but he didnt follow suit
green bison
Damn shame FoW and IFA are not sharing IP, both are excellent mods.
undone pier
from what I understand we cannot do a DMCA claim either as neither LODU's models are our IP (he specifically withdraw any rights from us in addition), nor can we do it for AWAR assets. we can do it only for assets we have created ourselves.
@pliant oar can you take down the upload (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1154578433) on FoW/LODU and our behalf?
fossil basalt
Iโve posted that to the Moderator sub-forum as well kju so that it gets more exposure. ๐
tender hawk
@fossil basalt After seeing the recent discussion in #general_chat_arma regarding CUP and monetization I can't help but believe that the monetization rules have had a real net-benefit effect
fossil basalt
I think it depends on ones definition of โnet-benefitโ to be honest. I see servers being shut down by BI, a community ban-list and a reduced desire to be associated with those types of people. For me personally, thatโs a net-benefit.
tender hawk
Mmhmm... and the monetization rules mean a standardized set with clear lines, particularly defining monetization versus 'true' donations
fossil basalt
I just realised that I read your post incorrectly, lol, but yeah, the feeling is mutual.
tender hawk
Even if a modder wants to be more specific about the rules surrounding their mod (i.e. license), the whole 'legalization = regulation' aspect has stood the test of time IMO as far as 'it's no longer a so-called Wild West for modders' intellectual property rights'
fossil basalt
I want to say that the community have played a major role in reshaping it (attitudes). We have all grown and matured over the years and have positively or negatively influenced others that want to be included within our โcircleโ. By negatively I mean, they are told they are not welcome here.
tender hawk
Attitude is relevant, I'm just remarking on how the regulation/clear definition has built a consensus for the community to lean on, particularly if the perceived 'infringement' may be over supposed edge cases such as reserved slots ("donation or monetization? Just see the official rules")
fossil basalt
Yes, most definitely
mint edge
there aren't many other modding communities which slaps thieves as hard as arma are there? nexus usually does but that's for a multitude of games
looking at gmod mods ect either nobody gives a Fk or nobody can do anything about it lol
fickle ivy
gmod, gta, those kinds of stuff... where kids and arseholes rain supreme.
dull moon
neon crater
:joy:
worldly meteor
Just found this. Not sure if it's ripped from Arma3 or vice-versa But uhhh.
Oh, I can't post pics.
One sec.
worldly meteor
Is this Literally the AK-12 model?
rapid cairn
Hey, What should I do if someone is reuploading mods and passing them off as their work?
Other than mention it here.
Report on steam for violating TOS?
Someone reuploaded Konyo's Mh-47 and WalkingOnMovingObjects together and is claiming that he 'fixed' Konyo's walking scripts
When in reality he just reuploaded Walking on moving objects (WMO)
Here is the offending workshop entry: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1154344332
also same guy reuploaded this: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1140176564
TFW Radios,pretty much all of Firewill's aircraft, Konyo's mh-46 (again),Hafm, USAF mod and Sabre aircraft
fossil basalt
Report it via Steam workshop. Give links to the original authors' sites., basically provide as much info as you can. If they are a Forum user (the offender), PM one of the Moderators here or on the Forum with their Username/details. Try to inform the original author if at all possible.
rapid cairn
K
tender hawk
Is this Literally the AK-12 model? I can't be sure without a more thorough look but it's not as if the old AK-12 ('200') look hadn't been out there for a while before Apex... could have been ripped from BF4 instead for all I could tell
mint edge
@worldly meteor at a glance any ak-12 looks like its the same as the next like with most gun models of the same gun type
fierce ocean
Please, check this item http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139975046
This empty mod, user show screenshots, and selling models
That allowed?
fossil basalt
No
jade tartan
yeah looks a heck of a lot like the one from stalker
carmine folio
You are allowed to port stalker assets to another game, just has to be non-commerical otherwise its basically allowed
fierce ocean
@river spear yes, I know, my friend PM in your steam today
river spear
Luckily I've got the personal details of that person
So I shall send him a letter indirectly
compact merlin
This guy is the cancer of russian community - he also resells Mikero tools
Some kind of local meme
mint edge
Your allowed to port stalker assets and that is something I do, however your not allowed to sell them like what hes doing
compact merlin
He is a father of about 30-40 autist lifes.
He takes serversides from UC.me, change watermarks and sell it
cobalt creek
And ppl are wondering, why Life is so hated/receives so much hate.
coral torrent
People see those idiots but project their hate again all lifers .... But as far as I can tell I have not yet seen anything good from the Russian life community ... Only copy pasta servers and people selling leaked and ripped files
wet sleet
@coral torrent having spend some time "inside the life scene", i can assure you there are good and bad people
languid fog
I was thinking, what constitiues as 'derivates of work' that usually comes under license? I saw the above Ak12 and was thinking when is it deemed something is a 'derivative'? Say 10 people could make Ak12s from the same reference image yet some may be very very similar, could someone argue its a derivative of their work?
coral torrent
If the model is 100% the same OR the usage of the original product is patented in a way where also online models are not allowed then yes
If you are allowed to make a virtual model for the ak12 and you produce it yourself based on a legally optained image like a free official source from the production company that holds the patent for the ak12 then you have nothing to fear
It does not matter if the work of 10 people produced similar results, as long as they were made using only the personal manpower and no other persons model or parts of it
I can make something that looks the same way but it has a differnent poly skeleton
Not the same model
If you copy someone's model and change it like remove or add one detail to to then it's not your model
And you deriveated your work from it then
languid fog
Ahhh yep gotcha
What if someone took said Ak12, but increased poly count for example, added new stuff and made new UVs? Is that still considered derivates due to it originally using someones model? Presume it would be
coral torrent
Yes badicly that is correct. But if he changed so model to a degree where you can not be certain that he took it from someone else or if he made it by himself then there is no point of proving something
If you can prove that he just added more and you model fits 1:1 100% into his model then you might be able to take legal action
languid fog
Yea that makes sense. Cheers for clearing that up, I've always been curious about the derivates part and how people determine what is or isnt a derivative.
So technically speaking, once someone has made a item with their own dimensions, they technically own those dimensions? Someone has to use different dimensions
tulip nexus
no, he means using the actual topology and UV data from the source model
you can use existing models as reference
coral torrent
A model can be of the same size but it needs to be different in some way
Simple rules:
Does the source commercially use it / are you allowed to use it commercially -> if so you may, never have identical data to the source
You model can look nearly identical and can be the same size etc, but it must be different in some way. A polygon has a differnent position or different shape
carmine folio
Derivivate is when you make alter an existing sometime
coral torrent
It must be clear that you made it and that you did not edit an existing model
carmine folio
You can always try todo clean reverse engineering (if its legal in your country).
Where you get someone else to write the specs / measurements
Then you read that info and create the item.
But most of the time EULAs etc will prohibt usage for reverse engineering.
coral torrent
โ
So to come back at you intitial example. All of those 10 recreations of the ak12 are legal and allowed if the data and specs were obtained in a legal way.
Using an existing model from another source that does not explicitly allow a derverative is forbidden
Someone will check if you model was a deberative by using mathematical statics on how many polygon points mathced in which way
How the overall offset and polymorphism would be
Eg. Downscaling it would not help as it would be the same model with same dimensions but morphed down
Would be instantly detected
If you just change a few points but the models match with a certain degree you will also get sued if the person claiming to be the author has his model protected by an IP law apllying in your country
@languid fog did torn's and my explanation answer all your questions?
languid fog
Sure did fellas thanks. Interesting to hear of all this stuff and what actually classifies.
coral torrent
There is much more to pay attention to. As I said people do not look at your model they run some really intense calculations and stereo matching algorithms on two models that should be compared. If there is anything they match up in people checking will find it out
Any derevarive is found with a very high chance, depending on how much the person changed it.
If you changed the model that it matches less than 20% for example you would again be protected from any copyright claims as you made significant changes, e.g they can not be sure you did not model it from the ground up
Pro tip: don't be a fool and only deverarive from models you are allowed to, if not make it yourself or don't do it at all
It's stupid to copy others work in any non allowed way anyway. Especially in our community here your reputation will drop into negative infinity if you copy sometime and claim it as yours
languid fog
Yea nah thats fair enough. I've seen enough hatred towards the life community to know how bad it is haha
clever estuary
@amber eagle thanks
bronze oasis
Another case of IFA being uploaded to the workshop, with the paratrooper uniforms and all that jazz that got taken out, same exact group event. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1164476965
undone pier
@pliant oar please assist
fair aspen
It matching less than 20% won't help you. Some models have hidden watermarks.
glacial onyx
Hey,. Can the creator of a mod restrict the usage to certain game modes even when he public published the mod?
dull moon
Not that i know. He can restrict content to a game, but not a gamemode afaik
tulip nexus
There's a precedent for taking a stance on scenarios that use content in objectionable ways though. Like the recent Las Vegas thing
To an extent, that applies a concept of content creators having editorial control on scenarios that may reflect negatively on the work they have made
fossil basalt
@Lucke#6702 Additionally, this community has a "Gentleman's Agreement" of sorts:
For many years this community has been known as the premium addon/mod creating community. People work tirelessly and in great detail to create fantastic addons/mods/missions/campaigns to release for free so that everyone benefits, including Bohemia Interactive. You must get permission to alter someone else's work, to mirror their work or to use it in any way other than for personal use. Without permission please do not edit, mirror, add to your mod pack or edit and share around your private squad.
Unfortunately we cannot control what people do outside of these forums. However, on these forums you must follow this rule, if a person/team post a thread to share an addon/mod using content from someone else without permission, and we receive a complaint, the mod thread will be closed until the issue is resolved. Participation in this behavior comes with the risk of being permanently banned from these forums. Get permission by communicating with the original content creator(s).```So, if you had planned to go against a creator's wishes and use/modify their creation without their consent, you must realise that it will come at a price.
glacial onyx
ok thanks for the informations.
echo orchid
@da12thMonkey#2096 i think he means if one can restrict modA to use with gamemodB: ie: i can release a bunch of structures, but these structures are NOT to be used in any Life / RolePlaying gamemods
yes, i think it is fair to say it is within the author rights to do that, via EULA, or via script. or why not, both
tulip nexus
aye, I was just citing that there are precedents for restricting use of content designed for Arma, within Arma gameplay
i.e. it's maybe not a free-for-all just because it's a common platform
echo orchid
ahh ok, brain fart on my part then
keen trout
this is one of the "most popular items" on the frontpage of arma 3 steam workshop now, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1171680459
it even says "Im not the original Author" in the description
fossil basalt
Reported it?
Too often people see infringing content and donโt bother to hit the designated โreportโ flag.
dull moon
โ
mint edge
it sucks when people leave the community or are hard to get in contact with these kinds of situations lmao
neon crater
@mint edge it's sad when people leave to begin with ๐ฆ
mint edge
yeh
echo orchid
@chilly silo cheers
fossil basalt
Banned from Forums
dull moon
Reminds me that i should go on a rampage soon again ๐
fossil basalt
We should have a monthly party
cobalt creek
poor SteamGrill ๐
echo orchid
@river spear - it seems the tools is having a bit of a slow day today
amber eagle
Did someone say DCMA party!?!?!?
fossil basalt
And its down.
river spear
@echo orchid I'll have a look when I'm back from shopping
white moat
I wish you could just have a pattern match for โI am not the original authorโ etc etc in the mod description. Get them all in one go ๐
fossil basalt
Iโm sure @river spear could do it. Hint hint
bronze oasis
That would be pretty boss
white moat
i mean hell, there still 79 results here http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=reupload&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend§ion=readytouseitems&requiredtags[]=Mod
river spear
@white moat What do you need son
hallow lark
Think the suggestion was searching workshop descriptions for the most common idiot phrases
"I am not the original author",
"All rights to original author",
"Reupload"
echo orchid
that can be done using SW directly i think
safe arrow
Well he did, as can be seen in the link.
But you still have to look through the content as lot of those results above maybe orginials but just react to the keywords as they contain sentences like "Reupload of this mod is not allowed"
terse crater
hello .. how can i handle copyrights issue with my mod?
me and a friend made a mod for our community and now we splitted and they took the mod and modifiy to their new community with their stuff inside
safe arrow
Hard to do if normal talking with each others doesnt help. Only taking legal ways via lawyers etc. but that also involves lots of time and paper. And you have to prove, that you are the true (and only) creators of that mod.
Might also be different from country to country, but you can still contact BI and ask for help/guidance.
echo orchid
Bi legal dep will not take action to protect community made content
because why would they, not their IP rights
safe arrow
No not action, but maybe guidance what can be done.
echo orchid
have you seen lawyers that do that for free?
also, it is pretty dependent on local legislation + EU or US
safe arrow
At least they helped us one time with a stolen mod that was then used for monetarized server. And they did a lot in that case, even made them take there server down temporary.
echo orchid
and no, i am not talking out of my ass, nor do i talk without first hand experience
monetization is a completly different thing
safe arrow
Yep, i know
echo orchid
because that is based on their own set of rules
they set it up, it is up to them to enforce it
they are also liable in case it comes to court
@terse crater - also is that a custom mod
or is it a mod-pack
based on this: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/320657426690867200/371185521235460097/3888a434c9e4fe2d.JPG it is a mod-pack
terse crater
is custom ... the lower is the original
echo orchid
can you give me a link so i can download it?
echo orchid
link please
terse crater
the original upload
i have also the PSD of the uniforms it helps?
also the pre-complied files and all
terse crater
soo i what action should i make? i thinks go to court is a bit too much
the server is sponserd by gaming community here
(israel)
echo orchid
what you can do
is take that pack down
from six as well as other mirrors
most, including six
take IP violation pretty serious
dull moon
PWS has a discord server also for quick contact if needed
tawny sentinel
Aye, being responsible for not taking down DMCA content provider-side when all the paperwork is right can get you into quite the pickle.
What's PWS, if you don't mind me asking Chris?
cobalt creek
(Play)WithSix
http://withsix.com/
tawny sentinel
Oh, Gotcha. Guessing it's the company who owns it.
cobalt creek
It's an Addon-hoster (like Armaholic)
tawny sentinel
Is Firewill on this discord?
Found a reupload of his stuff, not sure what his policy is regarding his IP http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139411227&searchtext=firewill
tawny sentinel
Alright I'll post on his steam profile.
fossil basalt
@tawny sentinel Do remember, regardless of what his policy is, the re-uploader must still comply with the Steam Subscriber Agreement.
carmine folio
@tawny sentinel he has contact info for email. I would just use that versus a post on his steam profile
pastel creek
๐ค
neon crater
๐
carmine folio
doh just notice now ;P
tawny sentinel
@carmine folio Ah, I see. I'll hit him up tommorow if I remember it.
tawny sentinel
@echo orchid Possible infringement with the logo? http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1175863213
neon crater
Really gets on my nerves.
mint edge
(and I haven't gotten a response from the author.)
if that doesnt trigger you as a mod maker
neon crater
@mint edge people are acting like this is perfectly fine too.
mint edge
well it would be nice if steam workshop had a popup before you post
"if you do not have explicit written permission from the ip holder, you are not allowed to post this"
and if people click ok
and they get dmca'd "lawfully"
they cant post anything again
thats just not the world we live in tho
neon crater
anymore, children who post on the workshop like to try and say "But they put it on the workshop, they took the time to put it on there. It's sooo much easier guys"
fossil basalt
I forsee it getting smacked down soon enough
carmine folio
looks like a normal faction config mod using Niarms and RHS as requirement
and the logo is just keeping the same style
fossil basalt
Read down towards the bottom where he says he uses others modders mods. But yes, it would be interesting to scan it to see whatโs in it. For all we know, he may consider himself a comedian and thinks what he says is humorous
โโโ
I included the PBO files for these two helicopters in IRIA to prevent people from having to download a whole different mod for 2 vehicles, especially considering the last time it was updated was in 2015 (and I haven't gotten a response from the author.)
If he tells me to remove them I will, but you gotta admit my ms paint skills are pretty snazzy.โโโ
That alone is DMCA worthy.
carmine folio
oh ok, didn't see that
echo orchid
@FlyingVolvo#6783 just checked that addon, there is 0 rhs content in it, i can only DMCA shit i own IP for
soft egret
He fixed the logo @echo orchid ๐
mint edge
quite the sense of humor
tawny sentinel
Aye. Pretty dickish to give the impression of being related to the RHS team with the logo and whatnot. At least that's fixed.
echo orchid
๐ i sort of dig that humour
neon crater
Stealing is bad really.....?
fossil basalt
Get caught with your hand in the cookie jar and don't be surprised with the consequences.
neon crater
@fossil basalt Can't BI take something liek this down if the original author doesn't file a DCMA?
fossil basalt
Yes, itโs been added to the โIncompatibleโ list.
But it makes more sense for those to be done in large batches
neon crater
Well hey, at least it's gone to that point.
fierce ocean
@echo orchid http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139975046
Mate, pls, check this item, it's not a mod, it's just advertising.
soft egret
You mentioned the wrong guy. I'd say this is something for Dwarden
we already had other stuff from that guy
olive sparrow
hi guys has anyone else had any problems with the steam workshop crawler tool this week?
dull moon
what problems?
olive sparrow
i've just found 3 uploads of unsung on the workshop manually but they dont show up on the tool search
in the past the tool worked great
dull moon
maybe it needs a reboot?