lol , this is the main reason why the SW is getting such negative responses and then these ass clowns are suprised by DMCAs
#ip_rights_violations
blazing wyvern
chilly silo
@proud flicker i thought you'd like to see that one
proud flicker
Heya, yeh. A ton of my stuff is on steam WS and I dont really care
its not of good quality ready for A3 that I'd like to release it myself
chilly silo
Well its your IP so its upto you what happens to it
proud flicker
Yeh. It does set a precident tho, but I care too little about those ancient things.
The new stuff I release will be properly on steam WS
but Not sure what effective measures I can take to prevent extreme server monetization. I'm not against collection donations to run an a3 community server, but I am against using my stuff as main backbone of some life community
chilly silo
well it you dont really care id still put a comment on there decrying the guy's attitude
Yeah the life server stuff is a difficult one as it comes under EULAs. The problem is you cant retroactively apply them to something already out there in the world
but heres an interesting one....if a life or other server group is using a steam hosted version you did not upload your self you could take them down.
proud flicker
Its just a game of whack-a-mole then. I'll be releasing a lot of european enterable assets plus a whole euro terrain. I'm not against people using the terrain of course, but fuck those with their subscription pay-to-play game modes.
Its basically something euro life servers are yearning for. :/
chilly silo
then its EULA rules. after that any breach is a cease and desist warning to their service provider and a letter to them
proud flicker
Certainly something I will state in the EULA. But how enforcable are those.
cobalt creek
DMCA the sh't out of them, when its on the SteamWS.
grand gorge
I'll be releasing a lot of european enterable assets plus a whole euro terrain
mondkalb you are a god. arma 3 has needed new buildings forever. thank you.
chilly silo
Legally very. But as with everytihg creative it depends on the content and the use
It all depends on how willing you are to chase them witha lawyer
cobalt creek
+Searching Files in the WS is pretty easy and quick, with the WS-Crawler
proud flicker
Yeh, if the project itself infringes on copy right, of course I have no leeway. But I've got the CGTextures and Quixel license, so my assets are clean.
chilly silo
then you can register the item as copyrighted and you are bullet proof
proud flicker
I'll approach it from the way you counter piracy. I'll not make it impossible to get stuff. I'll just offer explicit permissions for use with life communities. This way it'll stay managable I hope.
brb, lunch
chilly silo
you dont need to register it really but you would then have to prove it was your content. If its registered in court your are gold plated
grand gorge
surely you can't actually license something for use only on non-Life servers?
proud flicker
"Copyright is granted automatically, with no need for formal registration. You can start using the copyright symbol immediately."
Has anyone done anything like this already? It seems Copyright is a direct part of the IP you gain by creating it.
grand gorge
yes, just making something = you own the IP rights, it's automatically copyrighted
mailing things to yourself, etc, is a myth
chilly silo
^ i understand that but trust me ive been through the IP law and copyright 14 times and 10 out of those i registered the item and there was no defence, its jsut an extra step that helps in the long run
proud flicker
Where / How did you register it? And what exactly?
chilly silo
It depends on your country of origin
proud flicker
So my citizenship or the country it was made in? 😄
chilly silo
Use the one you live in as its easier for you to get action taken
there are loads of companies that will do it for you
grand gorge
if you issue a DMCA the burden of proof is on the receiver to show they're not infringing your copyright. i've no experience with mod IPs, but i've issued 100s of DMCAs for my record label. we didn't register anything and none of the DMCAs were contested.
chilly silo
grand gorge
nobody on the workshop will try to fight a DMCA, not in a million years. these are 14 year old kids.
chilly silo
its not workshop that Monkald is talking about its the life servers profiting from his work he wants to stop
grand gorge
now that's not gonna be as easy. DMCA their server host maybe?
technically shouldn't be any different to DMCAing someone hosting your music i guess, which i know works
chilly silo
its the same process as sws but without the nice interface
but with sws you have valve backing you up
with a 3rd party host it can get a bit wolly which is where registeration helps
grand gorge
the third act of this arma IP drama will be all life servers just using russian or chinese hosts, i bet you any money
good luck getting your shit removed from a russian server, they truly do not care
young linden
wasn't BI using battleye auto-kicks for servers who broke the monetization rules?
cobalt creek
by disabling BE, afaik
dull moon
@proud flicker
registering your item for copyright is sure a good thing, but that is a bit too much for my taste. like smb said before, you automatically have all rights to it as soon as you create the item. if it really should go down to it, you got the digital source with timestamps, that's prove enough. and as for explicit permissions to lifers to keep control over monetization... nah, won't work. create your custom license based on APL like we did with CUP, or even a creative common license regarding monetization. also a server must be approved by BI to montize the gameplay, and since most of the montizing servers use steam ws for their mods it's ezpz to DMCA them. and if a server doesn't use steam ws, is not approved by BI and still monetizes with your content, sed a email to BI. they will take care about it
grand gorge
file timestamps are meaningless in a court of law, you could make files in 1975 if you just change the date on your PC
proud flicker
Yeh, I have no illusions of entirely stopping it. its like people ripping your content. But you can make it harder to do so, so that it cuts out all the no talent leeches
echo orchid
@proud flicker both just to be sure 😉
tender hawk
the third act of this arma IP drama will be all life servers just using russian or chinese hosts, i bet you any money Or French
echo orchid
@grand gorge - i have used a C&D letter for service providers of both server and website with great success...DMCA works only for the US btw
in any case, depending on where the server is located, use either the EU IP laws or US IP laws as needed in your citation
carmine folio
i think in china this can be problematic, iirc they don't have the concept of IP or enforce any IP laws, don't remember how it exactly goes there
regarding chinese server hosting btw.
tender hawk
It... varies, apparently, nowadays
grand gorge
technically DMCA is an american thing yeah, but every civilised country i've issued one in has been complied with, germany, uk, france, NL, etc @echo orchid
willow star
Did anyone tell Disney? They might be interested and they probably will fuck them with laywers and no lube
soft egret
You guys are having way too much fun pounding on copyright infringers 😄
merry oasis
at the moment 32049 of the 168353 PBOs (of the 3537 workshop entries with Tag:Mod) are unique
i.e. about 19% of the PBOs are unique
the most copied PBOs (matched by sha1, not name) are:
- task_force_radio_pipe.dll (included in 242 workshop entries)
- Addons\TRYK_BackPack.pbo (194)
- about 20 different Jonzie PBOs (159-173)
- optionals\task_force_radio.pbo (171)
- Addons\rh_de.pbo (158)
soft egret
:u
merry oasis
ok ok, ... most copied file 😃
river spear
That works 👍
I've got the whole workshop including everything inside pbos indexed, but I'm too lazy to update the website 😄
cobalt creek
When did i finished the Scanning? About a week ago? 😛 Lazy ass
river spear
14207076 files
merry oasis
@cobalt creek Did you finally kill the HDD of your server? @river spear could have done everything in memory instead of torturing those poor HDDs.
river spear
Not really
cobalt creek
Nah, size of the Repos are sometimes "too large"
+iirc, the worst part was the Downloading^^
river spear
It's all running on SSDs now
cobalt creek
☝ that also
merry oasis
steam serves the data in chunks of compressed data - uncompressed size of each chunk is 1 MB (or smaller for smaller files or at EOF) - you just need to request the chunks in about the right order (and/or have some buffer for temporary storing a bunch of them for reordering)
and just put the data (as it arrives) in the correct sequence in your sha1 algorithm
river spear
@merry oasis Thats significantly slower though
The overall process becomes slower and each of those seconds adds up to days
cobalt creek
Remember the Pre-SteamCMD times :/
merry oasis
@river spear and you're sure that you upped the number of parallel downloads (and of CDN servers used)
because steamcmd uses exactly the same backend
river spear
Might have been due to other things in the past, but I eventually had the downloads stop midway through and say timeout for whatever reason 😄
If you have any better solution, you're always welcome to help
I've never worked with this part of the Steam API before ^^
cobalt creek
Wasn't it that part, that wasn't documented at all? 😄
river spear
Also, sometimes it's just straight up impossible to find documentation or information of any kind
river spear
it takes ages though atm
sooo
welp
Will need to look into how to make it perform way faster
neon crater
@river spear sweet! How long does a scan inside pbos usually last? Does it extract it temp and reads through it? Or?
river spear
Very fast
neon crater
Cool, very good.
river spear
We dont actually extract the pbo, just read from it, thats way quicker
Just the database is a bit slow atm 😄
1 query, 3 seconds
Thats waaaaaaaaaay to long
neon crater
Hell, I haven't seen anybody do something much anything like workshop crawler, so it's still wip even 😃 ¯_(ツ)_/¯
river spear
14 million files to query from, should still be faster :/
neon crater
Still! It's a really cool tool, as long as you get the speeds up eventually I guess it's all good 😃
neon crater
@fervent needle true that!
undone pier
@OPTiX#6431 do you have one big hash map for all files?
soft egret
What language is that search implementation written in? Just SQL on the database? Does the database have everything in Ram?
robust abyss
https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/205201-25-kkiv-model-2035/?page=2 I don't know why this guy thinks he can get away with, but yea, if someone could sort this guy out it would be great
coral torrent
@soft egret its a mysql database set to usinging many GB of ram. The tables are optimized as much as possible and the cpu is not the wort either. It might be the underlaying database collections framework -
so called "Entity framework" and the way C# handles it. I will look into the mysql side of things, the configs and the queries Ryan performs in order to optimize it as much as possible, but I think that side is already "ok".
cobalt creek
imho atm: It works, space for improvements are given (as usual), but considering that it's a Service from/for the Community -> It needs its time and it works well, in its current state =}
+The Updating time was only a Problem in the beginning, now it's just a matter of a few seconds (depending on WS-RepoSize), until a new Repo is scanned (at least it was for me 😄 )
coral torrent
Btw we are at 21.996.974 files that are stored in our databse. Considering this amound of data a search time of some seconds (per file) is still very good
soft egret
What are you searching files by? name or hash? I guess these are set as keys in the database?
soft egret
I meant keys not unique keys
cobalt creek
iirc yeah
soft egret
Indexes it's really called
coral torrent
yes we do have indexes etc 😃 I will have a look on what is going on with the db later on, when Ryan is online and try to improve it
echo orchid
right so 12h later the crawler (most likely earlier) got stuck
4oclock.wss... Finding reuploads (3450/18934)
tulip nexus
wtf half the screens are from Arma 1 and one is some weird pistol that looks graphics-wise like it's from a PS2 game, and AFAIK you don't even have in the addon
Should DMCA it for crappy presentation of yours, and others work, alone
blazing wyvern
i know right haha
dim fern
I need help!
dull moon
so do i, but from a professional psychologist. sadly all refuse to help me in fear of my outbreaks
heavy moon
👆 🤒
dull moon
i hate it when ppl ask for help and never say what kind of help. outbreak intensifies
cobalt creek
@dull moon Can you help me? It's rly important!
cobalt creek
😂
fervent needle
How do you think psychologists make money.. People ask for help 😛
fossil basalt
Some of us are beyond help.....
dull moon
☝
fervent needle
Lol
Speaking of IP rights, what would the best course of action be to report a user/discord server that is "selling" arma 3 hacks? To dwarden or straight to discord?
A bit above the scope of this channel but yea..
dim fern
Sorry yall, Im under a panicked situation, sorry if I upsets someone but content have been stolen and uploaded to steam workshop😑
In all rage I've tried to contact him but with no luck
dull moon
@dim fern
file a DMCA report if you can prove it's your cintent. the stolen/reuploaded content will be removed from steam ws within days
dim fern
Well My problem is... How do i do that? And What is a DMCA?
dull moon
is your content on steam?
dim fern
No, it's not
It was relased but it was in a bad shape and we pulled it down years ago
Thanks for the help
dim fern
Thanks man!
dull moon
the rest is sort of self explaining. tell them in the second field on the following form what the matter is and link them some pictures or whatever. also ask how you could send them prove since your stuff it's not on steam
fossil basalt
@fervent needle Directly to Dwarden
fervent needle
Thx @fossil basalt Ill send him a PM
dull moon
help offered
inland scarab
Those damn idiots making a Star Wars mod with old assets that no one has given permission for. Gonna ruin any chance of getting any real mod for Star Wars in game....
tender hawk
Assets known to be from earlier modders? groan Just point the earlier modders towards this and let the DMCAs roll?
inland scarab
Yep going to start doing that, these guys are gonna ruin Star Wars
for the ArmA community*
tender hawk
Mind you, have you identified which modders' work is being appropriated?
modern flicker
reporting a server right now
does anybody know what BIS does with servers that go against more than a few monetization rules?
vast notch
@modern flicker investigate/put a message in chat/turn off Battleye etc
modern flicker
turn off battleye?
what good does that do?
sounds like a minor nuisance at most
vast notch
The server would likely become a hotbed of hackers after a while of it being disabled
modern flicker
nothing more?
almost disappointing xD
anything I should add to my email other than server IP, website and two versions of the mission file?
vast notch
That'll probably be enough as they will investigate it first
modern flicker
btw, the server admin did something weird with the .pbo so that people can't open it anymore, I'd assume BIS can get around that, right?
modern flicker
M320 and lynx is a donation-only weapon, you can get into DLC vehicles without owning the DLC, etc. etc. etc.
vast notch
Having code to get into non DLC vehicles is ok as the players screen will have periodic links to buy the DLC, goes back as far as Kartinator https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/168455-mrb-arma-3-kartinator/
Having weapons for donations is a big no no though
modern flicker
weapons, in-game currency, 50% discount, etc.
modern flicker
> ping forums.bistudio.com
Pinging proxy-casa.czupc.bistudio.com [213.192.54.36] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Ping statistics for 213.192.54.36:
Packets: Sent = 2, Received = 0, Lost = 2 (100% loss),
looks like it's just a proxy that's down
can't say if it's only the proxy or a larger chunk of their web architecture
well, on the browser I get 502 and 504, so I guess the servers are just overloaded
could it be they are being DoSed?
cobalt creek
What does it have to do with the IP-Rights?
dull moon
nothing much, but this channel is the closest as you can get to report such violations/ask for guidance to report propperly
tender hawk
Hmm... what I see is three missions, old dezkit stuff (forget about DMCAs they're presumably incompatible due to age), and that Flanker-D... guessing this person =/= Nobatgeldi ( https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/84976-su-33-flanker-d/?page=4 )
gaunt geode
Yea its his
Some of dezkit's stuff still works
barely though
i think every aircraft in that civilian pack has wheel movement issues
tender hawk
Heh yeah, I actually remember that back in the day there was still source for dezkit's stuff that didn't have IP-infringing bits in the model... but as far as the sources I have from back when dezkit made sources publicly available, my local copies of the sources for the Ivory F-15C, GR.4, and MiG-29K all pointed towards RKSL-Rock, and then the other Ivory F-15C source I have plus the CRJ-200 source seem to mention "maa"
Whereas those for the ERJ-135, Il-76, T-6A, and Yak-42D might be clean, but I'm not aware of dezkit still being around to be contacted re: whether permission may be granted to 'bring those back into Arma 3' so to speak... the only fork I'm aware of still around is the BWI T-6
robust abyss
http://britrex.com/modely_zdarma/arma_apex/en_arma_apex.html Not sure if this is in any violation, hell the guy is from Czech Republic so he may even work for BI, no idea.
Doesn't provide actual 3D Models but printable PDF's based on DayZ, Arma etc.
dusk dew
This is for a paper model
robust abyss
I'm aware, but it's still based on BI's IP
echo orchid
@robust abyss that model is made by myself for BI, so nope
robust abyss
Ah so you had permissions, I was just making sure
echo orchid
nope, that link to the site isn't me/mine, but the model is made by me, for bi
robust abyss
So, he is doing it without permission
I mean, that's kind of a problem isn't it?
It's not a full on selling/distributing models, so I guess it's not really that dickish
echo orchid
he is selling paper models...as the architecture of that specific building is not copy righted
and is based on some real life counter part
i doubt there's a real issue there
he is not selling the actual 3d model
robust abyss
Egh, I mean he is outrightly calling them models from Arma
echo orchid
yeah so?
fervent needle
they also have a bunch of other BI IP http://britrex.com/modely_zdarma/niva/en_niva.html
but yea its all paper
dull moon
also the PDFs to download look like worked from scratch with the real model in mind
blazing wyvern
well you can sell anything in paper and that doesnt violate anything
echo orchid
yeah, from all the legal i now know, there is no issue whatsoever
robust abyss
Just making sure 😃
echo orchid
👍
dull moon
good to have somebody taking the IP stuff serious 😃
blazing wyvern
robust abyss
@minor sonnet made me aware of it on my Discord, figured I'd post it here just in case
blazing wyvern
this is the serious shit 😄
dull moon
😂
robust abyss
Find a cardboard MP5 model and get that shit in game
dull moon
who did the lego stuff? i think this might be a job for him 😄
robust abyss
Lago?
robust abyss
oh right
dull moon
it'S called different in germany so excuse me ^^
soft egret
Afaik that lego stuff was completly free without any copy restrictions
dull moon
i was thinking of him making a paper mp5 model for a3 😄
soft egret
Oh.. You were having non #ip_rights_violations talk in #ip_rights_violations and I was confused
dull moon
haha ^^
minor sonnet
Oh hi, thought someone was stealing my shit, I got all excited!
little crown
those paper models are actually pretty cool
gaunt geode
the day DMCA's get filed against paper models is when i step off
echo orchid
😃
ruby pewter
Ripped Forza model
A few more from the same guy
He's disclosed they're from Forza 3 and credited the studio who made them. So I guess that makes it ok 🙄
fossil basalt
No, that does not make it ok.
ruby pewter
That was sarcasm :)
fossil basalt
👍
lone oyster
Is the workshop crawler offline or is that just an error on my end?
river spear
It's currently offline
We are atm working on other things first, then we will work on the workshop crawler and put it online again
lone oyster
awesome, thx for the info
echo orchid
@river spear patiently waiting on it 😉
river spear
I just need a way to poll the database faster, 3 seconds for a single file checkup is too long when theres 60 thousend to check 😄
echo orchid
no shit, it stuck checking 16k files 😃
and if you want my feedback, would be nice to have separate deep checks
and *.pbo checks
if the second is faster
of course, if possible
river spear
puh, it probably is
I can always add code again to also use the pbo checking method
But I really really really really want deep search to work quickly aswell
echo orchid
true that, but from an "user" perspective
that would be used a lot less often
my case: every 2-5 days (depends on my available time) *.pbo check
full deep check once a month at most, most people don't have the skills required to repack shit without fucking something up
river spear
Sadly there are also technical issues regarding deep pbo scanning
Mostly related to how the website works
To be honest, it will most likely be the best to simply put a client up for the deep scanning
urgh but i cant do that aswell, this is frustrating.
Ill get pbo scanning back to a functioning state first.
river spear
Something different
Something to do with how our servers are setup and where access to the database can be granted for (following our standards)
Urgh, bugger
I'll figure something out
echo orchid
i know you will, take your time man
dull moon
I would say as PuFu did with the check periods. Regular pbo Checks up to 5 times a week and deep checks like 1-2 times a month. Maybe even less
fossil basalt
So... someone who doesn't have the right to upload something uploaded it anyway then got angry when it was DMCA'd and removed? Am I tracking?
No sympathy.
Not much of a "community" then.
heavy moon
can we just take the entitled people out and execute them one by one,. im pretty sure a bullet is less expensive than the value of time people are having to waste due to the workshop.
a bullet per offender ;p
blazing wyvern
line all of them in nice one line and use one bullet - that will do the job 😄
heavy moon
anyways some sort of PSA from BI on official channels would help get the message out to players
maybe the armanet podcast people too
blazing wyvern
thats life mods in the nutshell
chilly silo
I blame the parents. unleashing hordes of self entitled muppets on the world...terrible
bronze oasis
Wow these people have no clue how copyright works..
I wish Valve would step into this shitfest, policing the platform.
cobalt creek
You want it better?
Ethridge:
I love this, the DMCA's are ridiculous, since when did mods become legal property/subject to legal law. Mods have always been free. For example: If I make a DL-44 blaster (IRL) and I decide to start making them to sell to people on etsy, is that worthy of me being sued? hell no. So why is a mod.```i blame @OPTiX , i think this salt-harves--i mean, workshop crawler of his, is responsible for the recent outcry against modders and DMCAs
LOOOL
i can't wait to see the new version of the crawler to keep kicking some retard dipshit asses
if smb does something wrong and knows about it beeing wrong but still is offended if others point him to his misstake (well, or slap him in the face with a steel made DMCA chair), isn't that called some sort of mental illness?
just asking...
river spear
I left the crawler on while being at uni to refetch the old workshop summaries (without every pbo unpacked)
So the old system can live on until I get my shit together and make it fast enough for deep scanning
I also changed quite some stuff regarding the final result page, the results you get are now unique with an ID and the result page can be accessed at any time once created
It also includes a URL you can include in your dmca that lists a summary of files that are included in the reupload
dull moon
that's pretty cool!
river spear
So the valve employee can decide quicker what to do (if they decide to trust the page at all)
But I figure after some dmcas where the link is always present, he will look at it
dull moon
Not sure if valve will trust in external sources, but i hope they will at least give it a try
west reef
Why do I envision the lot of you guys as being like the guys from Dune addicted to the spice salt
fervent needle
Salt and tears for the players who cant use their stolen mods
warm urchin
Catching fish is awesome and salt makes the fish taste even better 😜
river spear
Theoretically
I could extend the workshop crawler to different games
but deep scanning would be out of the roadmap then 😄
echo orchid
lol, every scum managed to crowd themselves in the same corner of the internet
bunch of inbreeds
echo orchid
@river spear nais! ping me plox
river spear
wanna do a search again? lol
you might need to wait a bit actually
website will be up, but it will be still fetching data in the background 😄
id say your best bet is to do it in 8 hours, then it should have everything in the db again and youre ready to dmca people
echo orchid
copy
robust abyss
Now I'm being called out for something I have no involvement in, I merely pointed out how fucking vile these people are on twtter.
I made a fucking tweet, and now they're out for blood, it's a joke
Apparently so
guess I should be flattered
fervent needle
You elitist scums!! Rawrgg
tender hawk
Apparently so guess I should be flattered Nevermind that you were one of the first people to release source/how-tos for an A3-exclusive (at the time) mod all the way back in early 2013 IIRC
tender hawk
Pffft yeah... whereas I've been around long enough to remember at least some of your contributions in A3's first publicly-available year
fossil basalt
The sad thing is that some of those people (speaking generaly/broadly) have a bit of talent. It's just a shame that they debase themselves to stealing content/fraudulently reuploading content. There is always room for creating content that was "inspired by" Star Wars, Stargate or even Forza. But, once youve taken their content, the games over.
grand oyster
The arma community seems really, really mean 🤔
robust abyss
They aren't a part of the community I know and love
I don't doubt it mate
I don't know, maybe it is time to move on and let this new generation of modders take the front seat
It certainly sets a bleak precedent though
Something like that XD
ruby pewter
Lol
robust abyss
but apparently they are correct in thinking like that
They are wrong in everyway, but you can't argue with people like this, it's not actually worth bothering, they will lash out viciously, even the point of harassment
and death threats, as a lot of you know
heavy moon
just hit up disney, you know, since your in cahoots with them about the end of the world n all
on a more serious note though - those people and their comments along with them are nothing short of vile, disgusting and wholly un-informed.
I applaud you for keeping your cool.
fringe snow
and some people just don't care about any of this and wanted to play star wars in Arma
heavy moon
@fringe snow maybe so,. but regardless of what you want, you still have to respect the content creators wishes and licenceing that go along with it. And that isn't some hereditory arma rule, it is international intellectual property law.
little crown
it's plain common courtesy and respect, first and foremost.
little crown
Why should modders respect user's wishes when those same users have no respect for them?
fringe snow
@heavy moon same talk applies to pirates and look at how much people do it.
it's like battling the wind
little crown
that's no reason to just give up though. That's like giving a child all the sweets they want just because you're tired of them throwing tantrums. Which is probably how we ended up in this situation now that I think about it, bad parenting lead to a generation or more of entitled brats who think they deserve to just take whatever they want.
fringe snow
I'm not saying that you should give up and let everyone upload your content.
I'm just saying that most people who download mods from steam don't care and don't expect them to care if this mod was stolen.
grand oyster
I imagine most people on steam onlly want the mod, I doubt they care if it's stolen content, reuploaded without permission, plagarised, etc. They just want a mod to play with
fringe snow
@grand oyster exactly what I'm saying
heavy moon
Thats no reason to support nor encouraging those behind uploading other peoples IP. Most steam users are blind to the facts - this is well documented. The toxic attitudes & threats et al that come out when the original IP owner decides to protect his work is always directed at the wrong person. They choose to harrass and in some cases threaten the IP owner, instead of the person(s) who published content that did not belong to them, which they have no right to upload nor distribute.
It is no wonder a lot of people do not want their content uploaded onto Steam Workshop at all.
fringe snow
that's an another reason
I'm in no way supporting them
but don't expect people to care ;p
hallow lark
Never forget steam is the playground of the lowest common denominator. Its for the uninformed, don't want to be informed, do not do so well in structured environments where adult moderation is in place. Look how this tried to spill over into the Arma Reddit community, home of the snapshot spam and downvote brigades. Even they said "nope, keep this childish crap away from here" and removed the post. I don't bother to pay any attention to anything anyone says on there.
fossil basalt
but don't expect people to care
Thats part of the problem. By default, people should care. Ignorance is no excuse and punishment should be the norm for repeat offenders. I do think Valve should do more to address the problem though.
lone oyster
Kind of late now but I guess I will give my two cents:
@robust abyss @ruby pewter The dogpiling is nothing new - see comment section of this video where I informed a video maker of the stolen assets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdnzLjMBwow&lc=z13uen5i2vjetj4i004ci3pomkueefv4ygc.1497219271432889
Is this **** annoying? Obv yes.
But honestly I am not giving a shit what some dumbfuck on steam thinks of me. As Kiory said, these people are not part of the tightly knit arma community. They are just a dogpile. Best just ignore them and strike them with a DCMA request if they use your work and you are not okay with it. Otherwise ignore them.
This just pisses me off so much because 1. It pushes some of the most talented modders away from ArmA (namely you guys) and 2. It gives a very bad impression for potential new and reasonable modders
fossil basalt
Often times, it can be done without a DMCA as well. A simple Steam report with the necessary proof, often takes care of it (albeit much slower than a DMCA).
sinful geode
Doesn't Dwarden take out some workshop items by himself if the infingement is very obvious
fossil basalt
I believe so.
lone oyster
I get your reasoning, the dogpiling is nothing new for me either though
got the same shit on steam, youtube and BI forums after that although not on the same scale as you
Would be a very sad step to take imo, but it´s a decision I can understand, espacially if you haven´t got the time and nerve to put up with it. At the same time however, I feel like you are just giving them what they want. A "complacent modder who shuts up" in their mind.
strict workshop bans after the second offense would be a first step imo but I believe BI said they can´t do that since Valve is responsible for that. Not sure though
very sad to see you go, but probably also the healthier decision
ruby pewter
Really the only thing that's going to make a difference is a change is social attitudes. As @Gbee pointed out we are dealing with a generation of self entitled brats. Until they're better educated and parented then this is going to get worse
lone oyster
well that is true, but strict bans might be a first educational step ^^
bronze oasis
It would also lead to more complaining.
lone oyster
true :/
fossil basalt
It wouldnt even need to be a ban (at least not right away). 14, 30, 60 day account suspensions then a Ban would suffice.
The amount of raging i've seen from people whose internet goes down for 2 hours has shown that
lone oyster
I mean something must be done or this will destroy any cohesive modding community in the future
bronze oasis
True. Somesort of actual punishment is needed.
bronze oasis
Yup. But convincing Valve to spend resources on this will be difficult.
lone oyster
but exactly that WILL destroy the incredible modding community of ArmA
any large projects would be completely impossible
Believe me, I am very familiar with that. 😦
lol
pliant oar
weeds are part of the jungle garden type ... so perfectly fine
what one must get rid of are invasive species
fossil basalt
that is the general cycle of churn
its claimed many A3 teams even in the relatively recent time ive seen .. 2012-now```
Close. What I have witnessed is `modder with no skills/value works on stuff, doesnt care about his stuff ... eventually he gets skilled, thousands of hours ,etc .. begins to care` changes his attitude towards supporting authors rather than taking.@echo orchid try now
I dont know how far it got but it should have scanned almost everything by now
dull moon
it's working. just had some fun
river spear
Hm don't think it scanned everything but I'd say most of the workshop
I had it fail yesterday quite often due to "NotFound" errors even though the workshop object existed
hallow lark
Think that happened when I tried last night.
ornate maple
Its a bit of a bummer that Dwarden isn't a sentiant robot that can consistently take things off the workshop that so blatantly destroy legal rights of authors
But i'm sure somebody could mod that right?
ornate maple
No you are confused, the steam workshop uploader owns all IP.
Thats why its totally fine to ignore IP Laws
hallow lark
But is dwarden apl-sa, or a more restrictive license. Not stated anywhere
willow star
can't BI do some kind of temp ban stuff for the most anoying idiots?
ornate maple
The Star Wars mod on workshop is quite unfortunate. I'm not sure how much of the content is made by them, but its a shame authors are being driven away from modding by the workshop specifically
echo orchid
no
ornate maple
Unfortunately not
fossil basalt
Thats why its totally fine to ignore IP Laws```
I sure hope you jest.^ no need for hoping compadre 😛
And yea Quiksilver, tis indeed many benefits to workshop for the uploader and the downloader of content
I know in the case of many Australians, workshop is a godsend with its delta patching
fossil basalt
Nah, I've just seen enough who * actually* believe such drivel.
ornate maple
Preach 🙏 its one of the main reasons we were keen on Project Uncut popping onto workshop
Australian internet coverage is so varied though. I'm on some pretty piss net, then people in town have what I can only imagine as NASA funded super internet
Its why ArmA3Sync is also great
hallow lark
Sw just needs some kind of punishment for flaunting their rules. Did anything ever happened to that guy that stole the star wars mod files a couple weeks ago and uploaded them to SW openly daring anyone to do anything about it?
ornate maple
Nah, instead the guys that actually "created" it went ahead and uploaded it anyway @hallow lark and now theres even more IP Infringements
Mod got taken down though
hallow lark
I understand that, but there was a clear case of violating copyright rules. Openly admitting to taking and publishing files. And the response is to remove the files... Does that sound like a deterrent to similar action?
ornate maple
Unfortunately the resources to legally pursue the person just isn't feasible. Nor unfortunately is it an option to ban that person from uploading to workshop
I'm unfortunately using unfortunately alot tonight aswell
ruby pewter
Good to see a few more Aussies in ARMA modding community
indigo thorn
I'm a bit late to comment on this but the 'greater good' argument sounds a bit like someone saying 'we'd all be better off if we had smart phones so it's Apple's (or whoever) OBLIGATION to give the world free products.'I don't get it at all. I know you guys are understandably pissed if by this but for what it's worth, there are people out there that DO appreciate what you do which is why I find it so sad that giving up is a very real possibility. I've been inspired by the likes of RHS, SMA and other great mods to try mod making myself. And with the fantastic support from this community have made something I'm quite proud of. So thank you all and please don't give up hope!
bronze oasis
The'developers' of that star wars mod just admitted to it containing ripped assests from other game..
fossil basalt
That was a no brainer
echo orchid
@bronze oasis there is no way to have that amount of content is such a short amount of time by such a small modding group
and have them all from scratch
so yeah, no brainer
bronze oasis
I agree. It was more the fact that they get DMCAed and then still have the 'balls' to admit it being stolen content. Previously they went with 'oh its a grey area'.
tulip nexus
Is this one of their members? https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/146157-arma-3-tutorial-request-thread/?do=findComment&comment=3195224 has various models ripped from Battlefront in Arma 3 on their youtube
ornate maple
Which battlefront? surely not the EA one?
Oh no it appears to be the good battlefront 1/2
ornate maple
Something I want to also make sure i'm clear on, the issue with the Star Wars Opposition mod is the fact its including so much ripped SWBF2 content and BHI content?
If the content they had was scratch built, would there still be such issues? Is the long dong of Disney as vicious as every seems to say?
soft egret
@ornate maple Yes that's exactly the Problem. Nobody knows if Disney would let something like that pass. People asked Disney but AFAIK never got a reply. So only thing to do is try. So.. If the Opposition guys keep trying to keep their Mod up and Disney sew's them into the ground. Then we can be sure.
ornate maple
Ofcourse. But really then its now clear the issue is in fact the stolen IP. Which is very reasonable
soft egret
Which is actually what a DMCA is about.
ornate maple
Back to the theoretical, could Disney file one if they had scratch made the content?
fervent needle
Yes/no
For example gta vehicles, their fakish names and they look similar to real cars. Such as the coquette which is a corvette, it loosely looks like one or inspired by one but it isn't, so there isn't any DMCA that Chevy could do towards Rockstar. But if they did have a car that was exactly like a real life brand with the same name then you wander into that territory
west terrace
fervent needle
Same deal with the mod that looks like lego people on the workshop for arma 3 now
west terrace
gives a good explaination to all the questions asked about fair use etc
soft egret
The lego Mod people asked the Lego guys. And they were fine with it.
west terrace
and its about starwars surprise surprise
thats basically the only option
even making star wars models yourself, although u own copyright to the models you make, you cannot give them away/sell them etc as they are still based on anothers copyright. They still class as derivatives.
ornate maple
So how do you draw the line between looking like and being the same in that regard? I know even with ArmA, the Hunter is called a KoshOsh or something similar, but is representative if the MATV by Oshkosh
For example with a star wars asset, if you called one of the rifles "Space Rifle" instead of say DC-15, and the gun was identifiably a DC-15, what's the role in that?
cobalt creek
IT’S OKAY IF I DON’T SELL IT! I’M GIVING IT AWAY FOR FREE!
This is far and away the most common myth about copyright infringement, so let’s get it out of the way first. Repeat after me:
Just because you’re giving it away for free doesn’t mean it’s not copyright infringement.
Just because you’re giving it away for free doesn’t mean it’s not copyright infringement.```This one "The Knight of The Abyss" guy on their workshop page is like their barely literate PR person
little sky
Great. Welp time to download the mod and have a hard copy so I can still enjoy the fun.
west terrace
@ornate maple - that would have to be asked of Bohemia themselves. From my understanding, if a model was made based on a real car, then there would have had to have been some form of licencing permission from that vehicle maker. However alot of cars "look alike" and theres only so many ways to do certain things. Noone holds copyright for the concept of a car itself. Look at cars these day... alot look very similar with only certain 'unique' body designs and features - those are the parts they can hold copyright of. Making something look extremely similar to another vehicle would be the grey area dependant on how similar. So they would have to have had lawyers involved im sure ensuring that there was no issue'. The difference in all these mods cases is, that 99% are just straight ripped models, and for the ones that are adaptations of the original, there is no copyright lawyers involved that could definitely or atleast fairly assuredly say that they are not infringing on copyright. Needless to say it comes down to the holder as well... and we all know Star Wars is known for actively protecting its IP.
tender hawk
@ornate maple So how do you draw the line between looking like and being the same in that regard? I know even with ArmA, the Hunter is called a KoshOsh or something similar, but is representative if the MATV by Oshkosh This one's an interesting one when representng real-world hardware but fwiw for years game companies went with renamings, i.e. Counter-Strike is probably one of the most high-profile examples, while I remember EA resorting to military designations (i.e. M16A4) or renamings in Battlefield 3, i.e. the 'PDW-R' in BF3/BF4/BF P4F is a fictional renaming of the Magpul PDR concept.
west terrace
we may even find that the renamings are what the car companies have requested in licencing. they may decided they dont want the risk of being associated with your product, but for a fee still permit the use of the model design
ornate maple
@ruby pewter i ofcourse understand and acknowledge that. @west terrace and @tender hawk cheers for the educated responses chaps
tender hawk
Interestingly enough, EA has some history on this front -- namely, getting into it with Textron (parent company of Bell Helicopters) in 2008 regarding Battlefield: Bad Company 2: Vietnam presumably over Hueys, and again in 2011-2013 over depiction of same (plus the Venom and Osprey) in BF3, settling both cases out of court.
In the latter case Textron had tried to C&D EA over unlicensed depiction of its aircraft in BF3 only for EA to claim normative fair use and First Amendment.
tender hawk
Were these commenters any of you? 😛 http://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/1354868867729634398/
cobalt creek
lulz
tender hawk
It is amusing to see the 'pro SWO' OP get seemingly unanimous 'no'
cobalt creek
Still there for me
west terrace
oh its back again. strange. was gone for the past 5 minutes for me with several refreshes
cobalt creek
Yeah, had that before too.
proud flicker
RE: Lego mod
The "release" that was really just to demo and tutor about character and anim config to the community with sources. PC Gamer then wrote an article and I got cold feet about getting lawyered. So I just wrote the LEGO group an email laying out how things were. They said it's cool and fine as long as no money is made using their IP.
Specifically the lego minifigs are copyrighted, while the bricks arent. Some court case cleared that years ago. This is the reason you can get fake lego compatible with real lego, but its never minifigures.
cobalt creek
except from China
blazing wyvern
Well lego is just a brick and you cant really copyright a brick 😄
unless it says lego on them
about that Star Wars thing - i wonder if Disney is against fan mods like Lucas films were
heavy moon
np, thought i'd check out the claims for myself
seems from the steam forums they are also using a ton of other peoples content aswell and claiming they are "placeholders"
anyways I feel dirty after being on those forums, such a horrid place.
pliant oar
for sci-fi modding the most friendly are only Babylon 5 and then to degree StarTrek (especially due to beta vs alpha universe and plenty of non-canon designs)
with SW or BSG you will run into massive IP issues where usually it ends with C&D no matter how hard you try avoid infrige anything (because whole designs are protected (in ST too, e.g. uniforms, faction logos and some races))
but then there are many other interesting smaller sci-fi universes (either w/o restriction or authors willing to approve) or you can build your own (like Angels Fall First universe is)
proud flicker
Same C&D happened to the Stargate mod for OFP.
fossil basalt
I remember that
sinful geode
That SW mod is now gone from workshop. 😄
"It's gone for a little while until a small spark is changed " ...
neon crater
Refresh me on what "SW" is?
sinful geode
Star Wars
neon crater
Oh duh
yeah I've seen too much of that crap being thrown around anymore, almost lost value now. It's like when I'm parusing through the workshop and I find something star wars, or rp related I always question wether or not it's within their right to be publishing it.
heavy moon
yeah,. some of the comments on the video I posted seem to be from pretty ill-informed people who don't seem to know the basic differences between copyright / IP / fair use.
I mean, I'm not surprised after seeing the same people post up stuff over on the steam workshop. but I have yet to see anyone post a constructive, credible arguement on SW Oppositions side and I know this is because they really don't have a leg to stand on, but by simply ignoring things they arent exactly making the situation better either.
sinful geode
Yeah, one the mod's defenders justified using Star Wars IP by comparing it to the movies: apparently it's perfectly ok to use SW characters anywhere because for example Rogue One got away with it too, even though it's directed by a different guy than in the originals...
heavy moon
🤦
echo orchid
@heavy moon first comment on your video uro:
i can care less if they steal anything at least they give out content unlike BHI```
lovelyHe won't mind me taking his PC then
fossil basalt
I don't think he realises that everyone can see his "pro theft" & "...stolen content is bad" comments. Trying to play both sides of the coin is a bad idea.
blazing wyvern
they always play the card "I want to play with it , stop ruining the fun"
heavy moon
@echo orchid yeah that ryejin guy got outsted before for uploading other peoples content to workshop, also asking for community help and then being a dick about it when he didnt like the answers. So it's no real surprise they hopped on that bandwagon.
robust abyss
Jesus, these SW cucks are now asking for donations
faint nacelle
that should get Disneys attention. 😄
bronze oasis
Yup
hybrid tide
Would be a shame if somebody pointed them to it
violet comet
Who do you think filed the DMCA? 😛
hybrid tide
Boba fett
tender hawk
Boba Fett where accidentally sets off jetpack
ornate maple
I sure do like me some rightious standing up to the evil disney and saying fuck you to people protecting their copyright
oh boy, i mean fuck BHI right guys?
/s.
ornate maple
Only if the silly person who owned that car was selfish enough to not share it with everyone. Jeez
tender hawk
If i buy a car I know is stolen and sell it to someone else I'm not at fault right? The funny thing, under American law apparently the answer is yes?
gaunt geode
I dont think so
possession of stolen property is a felony, I don't think who stole it changes
I dunno im not a lawyer
neon crater
I think if you arent under the impression it was stolen maybe, given that they transfered the title and everything instead of just handing you the keys and driving off.
little crown
don't know how it differs in the US, but in most of the world it's still technically a crime no matter whether you knew or didn't - particularly the stolen item was purchased at a discount, with cash or with any other circumstances which might be considered unusual in a normal transaction you'll definitely be required to answer some tough questions about your involvement - naivety or stupidity is not a legal defence. Of course, you also don't get to keep the item and you won't get your money back. It's up to the discretion of the police/prosecutor as to whether they press charges.
fossil basalt
It's called "receipt of stolen property" or "possession of stolen property" (both federal and state laws).
dull moon
are you sure it is included? this pack didn't pop up on my radar
dull moon
🤘
fervent needle
Posted only a few days ago aswell
carmine folio
I haven't downloaded to check, but assuming it is included.
dusk dew
Better DMCA it then 😃
carmine folio
A lifer posted it in the general chat.
dusk dew
🔨
carmine folio
It is only 272 Mb, so maybe they only have pieces of CUP weapons.
Just wanted to notify you guys to check it.
fervent needle
Or maybe it says you need them as well - would be worth a manual check
The links go to other sw pages so I assume they dont know about collections
grand oyster
or creating a mod dependancy
fervent needle
Yup
fossil basalt
I notified Chairborne
dull moon
i'm on it once home
fossil basalt
Carousing with the ladies again?
dull moon
tehee, you don't wanna know 😉
amber eagle
My God these people are like cockroaches and scumbags. WTF What's the point in making mod if these turd nuggets steal your stuff?
river spear
Workshop Crawler is working properly now again (no deep scan though)
This should be enough for most users though
Oh wait nevermind, forget that, its just the mod.cpp
-<
echo orchid
yeah 😃
river spear
anyway, its up to date again for now
Im doing the database updates manually atm, so they arent done as fast as possible
they will be as fast as possible again once I get the pbo hasher fixed
echo orchid
much obliged
chilly silo
I'm sure the steam DCMA team were grateful for the respite.
tender hawk
That is the glory and the tragedy
tender hawk
@fossil basalt Rock, they've probably never had to do so much work. The Steam Workshop DMCA and crawler won't stop what people used to do back in the day, but it is a (however-reactive) analogue to what Foxhound did for Armaholic back in the day
carmine folio
shut up and get back to work you slave 😛
chilly silo
I had this same tone with someone who ported my Typhoon into GTAV. I found his blog page and then took the model he made and put in arma and sent him the pics. he went nuts
My response was "now you know what it feels like. Hypocrit" he took the Typhoon down immediately
carmine folio
the level of entitlement is just unbelivable
chilly silo
sadly its is all too common
fossil basalt
We're better than that, we have morals/ethics
robust abyss
Egh, I'm starting to give less of a shit
I would never re upload someone elses stuff, certainly not that botch job, pretty sure I could've done a better job given time, just saying, maybe do it just to make them feel just as crappy as us
I'd never do it, too much work 😛
carmine folio
some trolling would be fun 😛
@minor sonnet recently suggested to get big mods to update their SW entries with a simple txt file 😄
robust abyss
not a bad idea
echo orchid
@carmine folio yeah well, due to recent events, i think the 1st of april 2018 joke might have a place rather sooner
without being a joke
might get some real attention
robust abyss
A strike is something that would require all major addon creators to pull everything that they've ever done to be meaningful, and getting everyone one board, well that's no easy feat, thought about rallying up the troops myself
I just don't see it being doable
it's a nice idea in theory though 😃
amazing if it could be doable
willow star
Most people use either rhs or CUP, so even only these two mods would certainly cause havoc
echo orchid
short term is not possible...but it is dooable
robust abyss
yea.
RHS and CUP would cause a lot of outrage for sure
but I doubt they would be on board
echo orchid
RHS is covered, i need to talk with the others but i am 100% sure there would be no issue there
chilly silo
The problem is the only people that will really be affected by a "strike" are innocents. The dickheads with the attitude are the minority and they really dont actually contribute to the community. they just take
willow star
@wheat wave your thoughts on this?
chilly silo
they will just sit and laugh while they rip your old content to bits
echo orchid
i mean i didn't talk with others but i am sure it is very much possible to do it, especially if more than ourselves (RHS) are doing it
echo orchid
friday to monday i think
robust abyss
I don't think there's a way of doing amicably either
echo orchid
so you end up disrupting most weekend games
if RHS, CUP, toadie, ACE and CBA do it (possible unsung and IF3 etc)
will get the point across in 3 days
and others as well if they want to of course
chilly silo
so you remove everything from steam for the duration?
robust abyss
Are you thinking of pulling all content from all areas they are accessible?
carmine folio
it's just to make it clear that something is wrong, so that should get attention
robust abyss
Armaholic and such
echo orchid
@robust abyss i personally have the resources to do that (aholic and withSix) besides SW
heavy moon
you should just be able to set the mods non-public, save a bunch of fuckery removing and re-uploading everything
robust abyss
I mean, to make this meaningful, shit has to disspear for a while
from everywhere it's been legitimately uploaded of course
carmine folio
i think removing it for to long will just backlash in ppl reuploading it in a insane ammount
echo orchid
@heavy moon yes, either private, or simply replace stuff with an strike.txt file
wheat wave
👀
heavy moon
you could get armaholic onboard too
wheat wave
are we going nuclear?
robust abyss
Strike.txt would be hilarious
blazing wyvern
yes - yeeeees
echo orchid
@heavy moon - yes, foxy just needs to remove the download button, not the ftp upload
or simply replace it to a strike.txt file
robust abyss
Strike.txt with a link to a video of a guy shaving his balls
echo orchid
it is dooable
wheat wave
i think the others in cup would be game
heavy moon
just make a mod that loads up with a splash/background image with the reasons for the strike, sort of tlike the in-game manuals
echo orchid
i didn't talk without anyone so far, but i also think the others in RHS would be game for a weekend
robust abyss
Chances are a lot of other people would follow suit if the big boys did it
echo orchid
in any case, might wanna move this discussion to a separare discord server
wheat wave
one of our guys got a temporary ban because of all the DMCA reports he sent in a few days and the steam WS thought it was spam
echo orchid
yeah yeah we are up to date 😛
wheat wave
he's now bros with steam workshop support
echo orchid
i'm also bro with SW support, but that is not needed in this case 😉
wheat wave
well i'll talk with the others, im sure they'd be ok
carmine folio
what if it would be openly communicated that this is going to happen so as many addon makers could participate.
usually with strikes it isn't to skrew ppl over, but more to be heard and get a point to the radars of the right ppl
wheat wave
by then people will have reuploaded their own custom version of mod X to steam ws so kind of defies the purpose imho
willow star
Dwarden would need to do Overtime 😬
robust abyss
It'll show just how fucking toxic they are, that's for sure
carmine folio
@wheat wave but thats exactly what this is all about, it would just help proving the point
maybe even have some statistics running and releasing a aftermath stat to see whats going on
wheat wave
@serene loom @shell orchid @vapid lintel
vapid lintel
Heyho, at a seminar right now, so not following the complete discussion but I said over in our CUP server: General ws strike will only hurt the silent majority of players that has bothing to do with this. Maybe a better idea: All mods release updates on steamws with a slight delay of a week or so. PWS, Armaholic etc get updated ar the same time and steam later. That may drive people of steamws without forcing them.
soft egret
That is btw what TFAR is already doing ^^ WS always get's updates last.
ornate maple
Someone would just re-upload it
They already do it
you'd only cause upset for communities trying to do the right thing
echo orchid
sometimes upsetting some needs to happen to get the point across
ornate maple
But you're rebelling against the wrong group
The people doing the right thing already agree that ripping content is bad
cobalt creek
I think some will say "Not loud enough"
+Many of those might say "i know its bad", but use that stuff anyways.
ornate maple
Bring awareness to it in a fashion similar to the "DLC" notifications that pop up for ArmA DLC
Whenever they use an RHS weapon/vehicle or CUP Weapon/Vehicle, your screen is obscured
little crown
even those who think it's bad and don't use it aren't doing enough to stand up against it. The wider community would completely drown out these thieves and their supporters if they just spoke out against it more often
ornate maple
Aslong as the same people remain unbanned/able to post onto workshop
you aren't solving anything
Its the same on Reddit
wheat wave
yeah well it's them who need mods to play, not the other way around
tender hawk
In fairness the few people who stood up for BHI got torn apart on steam. Been there seen that
cobalt creek
Who cares about Steam Comment Section?
ornate maple
Its more about showing the "support" for the opposite side
cobalt creek
It's a collection of uninformend learning-resistend "peoples"
ornate maple
the people who steal
blazing wyvern
Steam comments are like made by Androids , not by actual living being
little crown
@cobalt creek right, but it's also a very public front for Arma, most users never come to the official forums or discord. If you don't fight back in the steam forums as well then it leaves the majority with the impression that the modders and community are OK with this crap.
ornate maple
Most of them don't care. They just want the content
blazing wyvern
precious free content
little crown
a lot of them don't care, but don't write off those who do or would if they were given the facts
cobalt creek
Exactly Willithappen
blazing wyvern
you know what
ornate maple
But its the manner that you get those facts across @little crown that is what is going to make the difference
blazing wyvern
we need that credit system by Bethseda lol
cobalt creek
Or Steam fkn removes those turds from WS, when > 2 DMCA are finished.
ornate maple
What other game has this issue though?
little crown
GTA comes up a lot
blazing wyvern
gta is flooded with illegal stuff almost like gmod
ruby pewter
Yeah
little crown
though the recent solution to that was decisive
blazing wyvern
recent thing wasnt about illegal mods tho
ruby pewter
It'll be a sad day if ARMA becomes as rampant with it as these games
little crown
no it wasn't, but since the software was necessary for modding the end result is the same
blazing wyvern
Take2 basically doesnt want you to open the game and do whatever and they mainly did it for the Online which possible was open too
so next games probably wont even have modding this deep
wheat wave
people think they can get away with it because they're allowed to, also things change a fair bit when it's not about stuff made by multimillion dollar companies but rather average modders
little crown
it would be inconvenient, but a similar nuclear option like BI requiring all mods to be reviewed signed by them to work would kill the illegal mods - though it would arguably cause collateral damage to the modding community
tender hawk
Admittedly at that point I'd be suspicious
little crown
and BI also doesn't have the manpower, though they involve the mod community in the review process as well I guess
tender hawk
because at that point you'd be having to subject your mod to approval of people whose design decisions you may be actively defying
though they involve the mod community in the review process as well I guess license for drama
wheat wave
better policing would help
blazing wyvern
basically not everyone could upload crap on SW
wheat wave
an automated tool that checks for pbo names would solve a lot of headaches
tender hawk
better policing would help Naturally, but defining "better" is tricky
little crown
current policing is reactive, you have to wait for the trigger to be pulled before responding
fossil basalt
They just need to add a few more job positions... cough cough
wheat wave
at least when it comes to the steam workshop
tender hawk
Errr, how does what you call for substantively differ from the crawler unless you mean it as a pre-emptive thing, Chairborne?
i.e. a change to Publisher
ruby pewter
How about having to apply to have your account upgraded to allow mod uploads?
tender hawk
looks real funny at that
Doesn't Steam have to allow for account upgrading first? (And don't anyone complain about A3 being too tied to Steam here when we're all specifically talking about Steam Workshop)
wheat wave
i dont know what the crawler is
fossil basalt
Its Automagic
wheat wave
and i mean an automated process by BI or workshop staff that routinely checks steam content and compares filenames
wheat wave
i haven't thought the ins and outs of it tbh, its just an idea i had
tender hawk
I'm pretty sure that's the crawler...
little crown
exact workings of the crawler are, I believe, kept secret because if you know what it's looking for it becomes easier to avoid it. though I would imagine it's comparing checksums of files, looking for certain keywords etc
the problem with that is maintaining a huge database of patterns to compare against
cobalt creek
It's no big secret.
hash of pbos & their Files in it, Names, etc. So if you want it to be "secured/hidden" from it -> You have to touch EVERY File in your pbo
That means: Editing all paa's, Soundfiles, Scripts, andwhatelse
tender hawk
An interesting question... on the one hand, that should definitely 'raise the bar' as far as reuploaders' trying to defeat the crawler because of how few may have the necessarily knowledge/skills to so modify these files
ornate maple
You literally couldn't
Obfuscation would also provide some fix
I just wish the culture of knowledge sharing was as big as it was
tender hawk
Ehhhh, that culture would 'from the other side' result in reuploaders educating others in how to modify their files no?
soft egret
Why don't you just put a FADE like protection in your Mods. If the @folder name is different than any of the official uploads.. Apply FADE
cobalt creek
And then?
soft egret
cobalt creek
You can name your ModFolder how you want, no clue what that could bring
soft egret
That's... and argument ^^
cobalt creek
😄
soft egret
But people that download from steam workshop directly can't really change the foldername can they?
except if they copy it or make a custom symlink
soft egret
But like. If you just subscribe to the Mod. Activate in Arma Launcher and play with it it'll be fine
Which is what most people do
Put that only in the Steam version. And additionally check all entires in CfgPatches. If foldername is different and there are files in that folder that are not from RHS then someone repacked that folder. Which you can't do if you use it directly from workshop
That can also be seens as some milder form of strike. You have to degrade the experience of legit Users because there are so many missusers that don't wanna listen
midnight vine
If this is done, maybe notice could/ should be given before the strike happens? Allow communites to cancel/ rearrange events that would be affected. A weeks notice should be enough. Then again using the recent Southern Rail strikes as an example most of the public ended up getting angry/frustrated at the drivers/ guards (mod makers) for striking not the company (rippers/ reuplaoders) for causing the strike. Is it certain that it would have the desired effect.
minor sonnet
Lol, I've created a m-m-monster!
The reason I was suggesting a strike is that a) a lot of people JUST DON'T GET IT and b) people are pointing fingers at individuals and calling them cry babies.
So get multiple modders to take down their work, link to a page explaining why, and all the names who endorse it.
If only for awareness.
AND MAYBE AN EXPLANATION ON HOW STEAM WS IS INTENDED TO BE USED.
Because everyone and their cousins half brother seems to think that it's just a Frickin upload hub.
fervent needle
Honestly I think the DLC like popup would be the best
minor sonnet
Yeah maybe
fervent needle
I support the full shutdown as well, but if there was a way to have a dlc type popup that couldnt be hidden or closed
That could stay there longer
minor sonnet
Yeah everything I've been seeing has caused to seriously question the 1.5yr I've been spending on my terrain. It really makes me sad. Why mod if the majority of people just expect it and don't give a shit how much you've sacrificed.
I watched the whole development of Epoch and people were toxic as hell, don't know how people like Awol just keep soldiering through.
warm urchin
"It's free so it's mine"
echo orchid
@carmine folio again, are you for real?
SW, while not curated
allows me to use DMCA to protect my IP rights
no matter if i do an addon in 10 hours or 10 days the same things apply
little crown
so in reference to the earlier discussion about preventing content theft, would encrypted PBOs not resolve the issue?
support already exists, so it would need nothing more than BI to share a public key for modders to use
if they don't already, admit I'm a little uninformed on that topic (yeah, and others)
soft egret
What would it resolve?
People can still freely copy the encrypted PBO's and reupload them
They can't easilly rip small parts out of an addon. yeah. Atleast till someone comes along and publishes a decrypter
little crown
a lot of the issues we're seeing are with people taking stuff from pbos, making small changes like new textures and re-uploading them. Or in the case of the SW mod which started this latest round of debate, taking sounds, animations etc
assuming encypted PBOs use a proper encryption like AES, no-one will ever produce a decrypter
even if the private key somehow leaked, BI would just change it in the next point release
it's not going to stop repackaging of complete mods on it's own, you're right, but combine it with a signature - i.e. each encrypted PBO is given a signature file, if that signature doesn't match the one used in the parent then the pbo doesn't get loaded and you've got a system that prevents 98.5% of cases.
amber eagle
I'm getting parts of my US Military Mod stolen by a bunch of Brazilian turd nuggets. I just filed a second DMCA in less than two weeks on this group. If I could encrypt my PBO that would be great.
In all honesty I think BIS should have it where invited modders can enter into a legally binding contract for use of PBO encryption to avoid IP violation.
west reef
Would you consider PBO encryption if it was a paid service?
fossil basalt
Absolutely
faint nacelle
and run by BI
amber eagle
Pay BIS for pbo encryption? To be honest, no. No way. ArmA is only where it's at because of the efforts of the modders. Those whole turd nuggets stealing people's assets only demoralizes mod makers who are already stretched making difficult mods. PBO encryption is BIS preserving it's modding base.
True, I think a lot of discretion is nessecary. For example, if Pufu or any other modder with a good standing in the ArmA community asked for any of my work for reference I'd gladly share.
faint nacelle
true, but it is possible to obtain that info by asking from the maker who may even be more open to helping others when his time is not spent chasing thiefs.
fervent needle
the only way it would work is if there was a heavy check/balance by BI in regards to ebo - even if it was automated like the workshop crawler
where you couldn't steal someones work then ebo it for $
west terrace
no its not a solution i agree. if enough mods had ebo, just the more incentive to break it each time.
fossil basalt
We have let it continue for quite a bit, but please remember that the purpose of this channel is to discuss (the vaildity of actual) violations before ultimately sending an email to infringements@bistudio.com ( in relation to actual infringements) Arma 3 EULA : https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma3-end-user-license
amber eagle
That's very talented to upload one's self.
gaunt geode
invulnerability is finally in our grasp
thorn gate
So this is how the singularity begins.
tender hawk
invulnerability is finally in our grasp Unless rampancy is involved
gaunt geode
or someone DMCAs your consciousness
chilly silo
Do you know, i'm seeing just as much entitlement coming from people wanting to "review" other people's work as I am seeing coming from the re-uploaders amd end-users.
The ability to lookinto some else work isn't a right.
I've never understood this community's obsession with that particular mythical right.
Well i do actually understand, no one wants to actually ask. or answer when asked. If people actually talked to each other there would be a lot nicer atmoshpere.
cobalt creek
lulz, he is still salty? 😂
blazing wyvern
I AM JUST UPLOADED
ffs
he should upload himself into the SW and hoping for the best
kill it with fire
little crown
Curious why people think it would be so easy to break ePBO encryption. If proper encryption was so easy to break then it would be useless. The only way to actually decrypt is with the private key and yes, it's conceivably possible that, assuming no enough safeguards have been used and enough knowledge/patience on the part of the individual to extract that key from memory or the binary, but in all the time that Arma 3 has been out, has anyone actually managed to do it?
blazing wyvern
@little crown pbo and ebo are already cracked - not by everyone but in dark scenes heh
arma 4 will need a new file type anyway because of steam and also being more compressed
so a more locked solution will be only a good thing
vast notch
ebo's have already been superceded with fbo's as could be seen in Argo
river spear
Just a matter of time
soft egret
assuming encypted PBOs use a proper encryption like AES, no-one will ever produce a decrypter
even if the private key somehow leaked, BI would just change it in the next point release
They do. I can create a decrypter in 10 minutes. For any ebo/pbo/fbo/xbo/whatever.
Private keys got leaked in the past. For every Arma version that had EBO's.
Yeah. And all Modders also need to update their P/EBO's with the new encryption key when BI replaces theirs.
TBH we are using EBO encryption privately in our Group already. After our Partnergroup just ripped our music pack.
And if EBO doesn't work because something is broken we also have our own encrypted pbo format which Arma can only Read if you start it using our Launcher.
We probably need an additional channel #ip_rights_discussion or something like that. Because there is apparently a lot to discuss that isn't directly about violations
vast notch
Wouldn't it be viable to put something encrypted within a mod, that needs a unique identifier in the mission file to unlock it? Using something like http://sqf.io/ etc?
soft egret
I don't see where that could prevent any piracy
little crown
@soft egret When I said they will never produce a decrypter, what I meant was that they would need the private key. You're right t's not even slightly difficult to write such a tool but without the keys it's worthless. I wasn't aware before that those keys have been successfully extracted either through decompilation or from fishing around in memory before now, so that does change things some. Key extraction can be made much more difficult, but there's never a guarantee when you have to provide the private key to the end user as you do in this case. Still, it would probably be enough of a roadblock to stop a lot of the casual theft of IP/Content. If they have to resort to shady third party tools and leaked keys to get the content out then they also cannot claim it was a misunderstanding, by that point they've taken enough steps to clearly demonstrate that they are knowingly stealing - a percentage simply won't care, that's not going to change.
soft egret
The game has to be able to decrypt them. So the game always has the decryption key. That means every user also has to have it.
PBO obfuscation already does make it harder to steal stuff. So that would probably suffice
heavy moon
better education of the community on the rights/wrongs of all this would go a long way to over time to raising thier awareness too
because most are either ignorant to the rights/wrong and simply dont know about them,. and the worst kind, dont care about them.
little crown
yes, the game has the decryption key, I believe I've said that two or three times now. However a small number of people (relatively, within the community) have the experience and understanding to extract that key.
@heavy moon right, as I was saying the other night to those modders who said they couldn't be bothered to fight anymore, giving up or giving in will only make things much worse. You have to keep fighting to raise awareness that this is wrong. The moment you let one person get away with it you're opening the flood gates - "everyone else is doing it, so why can't I?"
heavy moon
yep
little crown
it's easy to say that, less easy to do. I've had to do my share of GPL enforcements in the past, at least in the open source community we have access to free legal help and a huge community who are willing to back you up.
heavy moon
also education the comminuty on steam "collections" for their groups mods as opposed to flat out re-uploading would stem the tide of re-uploads
little crown
yeah
I really wish steam would improve collections though so that it was a one-click install deal, with dependencies automatically installed. Current behaviour isn't as user friendly as it could be.
heavy moon
yeah but that is literally a 2 minute task to add the items within the collection
midnight vine
Even an improvement into sharing the launcher presets from the arma launcher might help.
heavy moon
im not against more automation on that front and certainly it would help the end-user somewhat
little crown
for server packs sure, but just generally it's a pain. I still like to play some SP scenarios, but installing the 15+ mods that some of them require, even though they use collections is a royal pain.
heavy moon
it doesnt directly help the root issue being discussed here though
midnight vine
Being able to share them directly online rather than it creating an HTML file. If BI could add a URI scheme into the launcher like arma3mods:// that would launch the launcher with the mods on the file. Would make education easier at least.
little crown
the fact is that it wouldn't take but a few minutes for them to write that functionality into the steam client, it's really not that complicated
but like a lot of things Valve does, the workshop is a neglected feature
heavy moon
yep, even their last official workshop news entry is over a year old
little crown
I blame that on their unique employee driven structure. If the developers working on a project get bored then it gets abandoned
makes it a great place to work, but ...
fervent needle
Tbh another way of preventing people uploading stuff in packs would be to not have steam autodownload ws mods, they will break for users and players trying to play. Servers sometimes cant update that quickly
river spear
@fervent needle Good argument
It's absolut sh** when mods automatically update, you're at work and everyones spamming "CUP just got updated and now noone can play on the server!!1"
dreamy galleon
that's why you use arma3sync 😉
river spear
1.) You need to host a download server
2.) Many people don't understand how ArmA 3 Sync works and can't follow simple instructions to get it work
This is exactly what the Workshop was supposed to solve
The solution isn't going back to ArmA 3 Sync ^^
cobalt creek
2.) Many people don't understand how ArmA 3 Sync works and can't follow simple instructions to get it work```
💯 000%Gotta love the tactical scene that own their own Game Servers that can also provide Arma3Sync for everyone.
Where do other people get their Server's from so that they can't host A3S files 🤔
Every Server provider where you can upload your own Mods via FTP can also be used as a A3S host.
So.. I'd say it's all on the second point
river spear
A lot of server providers limit to 100Mbit
Which is not fast enough for the typical exile gameserver
And even if, the second point, yep
ornate maple
Thats why you have people in said community assist people who can't figure 3Sync out. Its 3 or 4 damn clicks. Point 1 doesn't require that expensive of a server either, if you're hosting an ArmA server already, you'd surely have capacity to host it.
tender hawk
@blazing wyvern arma 4 will need a new file type anyway because of steam and also being more compressed so a more locked solution will be only a good thing An interesting perspective about 'what if the future of Arma stays tied to Steam'...
@soft egret And if EBO doesn't work because something is broken we also have our own encrypted pbo format which Arma can only Read if you start it using our Launcher. Definitely an interesting idea
river spear
@soft egret Tell me more about that launcher 😄
soft egret
It's my Arma launcher. It injects a dll before gameStart that Hooks into the Windows readFile API. Little nifticies like download from 3 servers in parallel because we only have cheap 100mbit servers. And Leads can control disable it for certain users
Really unsuitable for mass use.
jade tartan
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=951193783 Pretty sure this mod is using illegally ripped and retextured content from DayZ. Just wanted to alert you guys to that.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/867355308438862767/4A9F9CF019766728DF306636EDDE12FBDFD2073F/
specifically these jacket and pants which seem to be retextures of the police jacket and cargo pants from DayZ
soft egret
I don't see anything in there that screams "ripped" at me. But well.. Kickass has participated in that. And he has a really bad reputation for ripping stuff. So it's likely something is wrong with that.
carmine folio
jacket is definitly from dayz:
http://www.dayztv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/dayz-police-uniforms.jpg
check the wrinkels
dull moon
Oh, that guy... Can't recall how often this Name came up in here by now...
cobalt creek
Sadly... yeah -.-
amber eagle
How much ya'll want to bet that building is ripped too?
soft egret
lul. Check out the first comment on the WS item 😄
This user also played as:
Fuck Bohemia Interactive Studio
Fuckk Bohemia Interactive Studio
Fcuk Bohemia Interactive Studio
whykauyil
how many times can you write fuck the wrong way? 😛
fringe snow
A quick question. If someone has an server with arma3sync setup, can one add CUP there for people to download it? Or is it against the license.
@soft egret OVH has game server offers with nice bandwidth.
fossil basalt
@serene loom ^
dull moon
Distribution of CUP mods on private repos is allowed. A3S is considered as private for now
@fringe snow
fringe snow
Ok, thanks!
white moat
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=951687129 oh look, a life server doing what life servers do
hardy rivet
@pliant oar , Have a nice day, I found potential violators in Steam Workshop.
They use modified BIS models from DayZ:SA/ArmA III: Apex. Also they include mods such as: JSRS, HLC, KA, ArmStalker, MrSanchez' Headlamps.
Link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=951922040&searchtext=deep+zone
Stolen models proofs:
http://i.imgur.com/VH9GB4q.png (Modified AKSU)
http://i.imgur.com/HBI0D52.jpg (AKM from Dayz/or Apex??)
http://i.imgur.com/nr9IaoF.jpg (ORIGINAL BIS MODEL FROM APEX)
fossil basalt
@Qubex#9346 KA himself is a serial content thief.
soft egret
ORIGINAL BIS MODEL FROM APEX Nothing is wrong with that. People can do retextures all they want
hardy rivet
@soft egret remodelling too?
soft egret
No. Did they do that? Couldn't see any differences on a quick look
tulip nexus
It's the DayZ one by the looks
soft egret
Ah yeah. The AKSU looks indeed different. But the AKM is just a retexture
tulip nexus
I remember there was an addon a while ago with ripped DayZ weapons and uniform items, looks like they got them from there
soft egret
Well that said. It could be a retexture. They can still rip/copy the model although they don't need to. Which would be dumb. But to be expected
hardy rivet
It's not a retexture. It's looks like a another rvmat (AKM)
soft egret
Are you really sure about that?
hardy rivet
I can check .paa files right now, but texture is VERY simular
Yeah, it's is NOT a retexture
soft egret
Config is easier to distinguish. You can directly see if they change the model there.
Well. That's dumb then. Why copy a Model that you already have?
hardy rivet
Skyline_AKM.p3d
Skyline_AKS.p3d
model="Skyline_Arme_Pack\AKM\Skyline_AKS.p3d";
model="Skyline_Arme_Pack\AKM\Skyline_AKS_Bipod.p3d";
model="Skyline_Arme_Pack\AKM\Skyline_AKM.p3d";
It's looks like a ripped model from DayZ:SA with some changes
tulip nexus
Yeah, it's the stuff that was in "Skyline's Civil Pack" and "Skyline's Weapon Pack"
hardy rivet
Oh, i can'no find these mods
tulip nexus
They were removed from the workshop 😉
hardy rivet
In config files i found these (AKM, etc)
author="DeepZone";
soft egret
Also includes Ares,HCL AK/G36/mp5 @blazing wyvern, JSRS, A lot of kickass stuff.
The DeepZone thingy that is
amber eagle
That DeepZone WS item also has some of my helmets from the US Military Mod. Cockroaches.
dull moon
kill it with fire before it lays eggs
river spear
The issue regarding the workshop crawler not finding reuploads properly has been fixed
amber eagle
Can I sign my soul away to BIS so I can get my work ebo?
They already have half of it...
neon bear
I got a question, why did my stuff get uploaded to Armaholic without my permission? Not that I really care or mind but this seems kind of odd.
Is that normal?
cobalt creek
Because they (the uploader) didn't care. Contact the support from Armaholic.
neon bear
No big deal just curious if this happens a lot, since it's just a retuxture. Contacting them would probably be a bigger hassle than making that mod.
thick vapor
Despite the moral concern is it really allowed to sell a whole missionfile for 300 bucks? I mean, this is fckin ridiculous: https://armaservices.maverick-applications.com/products/zero-one/
midnight vine
I believe so, if its not made using BI Tools (ie they say they wrote it all in a text editor) then I don't think it comes under the monetization rules.
thick vapor
At least the mission.sqm was created using BI Tools. But this is seriously emabrassing that such things are allowed.
fervent needle
Its their last chance at cashing out with a lifemod.. Not surprising
thick vapor
Monetization is really a huge problem. On the one hand legit servers are doing this to get their servers paid (small communities, KOTH) on the other hand life servers are cashing out and don't give a shit on the rules.
vast notch
Just for some fun, change your IGN to Bohemia Interactive and join some Life servers, see how long before you get banned 😄
thick vapor
Apparently there are people thinking that BI officials are that dumb that they don't use VPNs
@echo orchid do you mean donations too?
echo orchid
@thick vapor no i mean monetization
thick vapor
well this is what altis life is for. it's just a money generator. some servers are figuring their costs at about 300 bucks or even more. it's not only unrealistic it's chating
dull moon
they are basically allowed to do whatever they want since all this monetarisation BS is not regulated, not even close
once one is allowed to monetize they can charge whatever they want for a slot or "premium stuff"
thick vapor
as long as you are not promoting your monetization on your website you'll never be catched
Once I had a server that was offering a ton of benefits if you pay 30 to 90€
but they did this only personally and not on the website
It was a PITA to collect proofs for this (transcript German->English, video recording of the talk with the supporter) and in the end BI can't really double check if they stopped that
dull moon
see, no regulation at all
thick vapor
there are regulations that can't be checked
thats the problem
the major reports come from the community
if the consequences would be really harsh (e.g. be blocked forever) nobody would every try this again
but if be is only blocked until they promise to don't do this any more it's freakin senseless
hallow frigate
I pay 60€ for a server located in mid of EU including windows license. 3x 250 GB SSD with i7 6700k and 64 GB RAM... either they make terrible deals or they just want money. Cant explain to myself how these communities need that much money / donations.
fervent needle
they just want money <<<<<<<<
Saw upwards of 400-1000 for donation goals per month for some stupid servers.. Like wtf
As well as "we need to bring in $800 per custom vehicle for our lifemod so its made custom and we can use it in arma" ... LOL
mint edge
it's gotten that high because stupid people actually dish out that much to those communities for their low effort and mainly ripped code lol it's life
fervent needle
Yup
dusk dew
@hallow frigate Share 😮 ? That's a steal
fervent needle
Second that ^
hallow frigate
@dusk dew I'm at server4you, a german server hoster ( https://www.server4you.de/ ). Sorry but you're a bit late for that, you must wait for the next sales. They're charging me 65,01€ for it every month ^^
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmlKflcm4jANh_QxMzuYeD66UWk2ag
coral torrent
@hallow frigate do you have an exact name of the server you own? That sounds like a pretty good deal
midnight vine
These are very good deals too, be warned you wont get "support" for these, they are as-is servers. https://www.soyoustart.com/en/game-servers/
Anyway i think this should probably be in #server_admins
midnight vine
https://dev.arma3.com/post/sitrep-00196 - Note in the SitRep about steam workshop.
stark mulch
I am right is assuming SQF is not "copyright'ed" by BIS. As in, if I make something is SQF I can sell it? That is correct right?
soft egret
See Infistar. Yes you can
stark mulch
^^?
so i can sell it, as a few people are selling code. infistar, optix etc. I cant work out if its ok or not
cos some people can do it and others cant?
its confusing
soft egret
I don't see why you couldn't sell a plain textfile.
SQF is litterally just a textfile with text in it.
If you pack it in a PBO things might change though
Except you use your own PBO Packer that is not part of A3Tools
that might then be different again
stark mulch
but mikero?
i know an EU court case set a precedence were programming language can not be copyrighted
soft egret
That's true. That's why I said it's literally just a textfile. No one can claim copyright on a bunch of text you wrote yourself. You have the copyright on that. Doesn't matter what you wrote.
But I think A3Tools license might forbid you to use them for stuff you sell.
stark mulch
for models etc that applies i presume
soft egret
stark mulch
cos i wanna start selling a ingame internet radio dll + sqf code, i dont wanna get in shit for it 😦
soft egret
Not even for Models if you have your own P3D binarizer and stuff.
See tools license 3.2.4
stark mulch
ahh ok
soft egret
As long as you keep BI tools out of your workflow you can do whatever you want to
soft egret
You should ask Mikero though. I don't know if he has any license on his Tools that might prevent you from selling
stark mulch
i think he prob wouldnt but ye good shout
river spear
They can't really do anything about selling sqf scripts
We hired a lawyer to check on this according to German/EU laws
soft egret
@carmine folio That doesn't make sense though. You can't go after anyone for selling self written text documents
river spear
@soft egret BI can only go after people that sell things in formats owned by them, which they have copyrights over
Or things that were made using their tools
soft egret
True. BIS Tools license forbids that. But if he uses his own PBO packer. Or maybe he writes the PBO's manually using a hex editor.
Then again it's just a self written text document that by pure chance also acts as a PBO
river spear
SQF is excluded from that though as many courts have decided already that a programming language does not fall under copyright protection due to their similarities
Regarding the formats: I don't know whether packing a pbo with a different tool makes it legal to sell, since the specific format PBO is still owned by bohemia
vast notch
@river spear Check pm, you will laugh
river spear
However sqf is plain text, and unless BI revolutionise the way the programming language operates which would make it copyright Worthy, I don't see anyone being sued successfully soon
soft egret
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/PBO_File_Format
Bohemia Interactive is not willing to tolerate use of such tools if it contravenes any general licenses granted to end users of this community wiki or BI products.
I've never read anything about a license on PBO files in general.
And I would also say you cannot copyright any file format. You can control the tools to build that format though. But if a user builds his own tools it's back to a self-written text file. And you can't claim copyright on something that somebody else 100% produced himself
vast notch
Sublime/Notepad++