dev_rc_branch

[full sonnet]

thats indeed not ammo events :poutcat:

[harsh orbit]

you can say in the ticket that it misses #include "defines.inc" on top

[harsh orbit]

I know 😅
like I said, I thought you guys were working on 2.10 and that's why you were quiet...
so I wanted my feature released before then to use it with ammo EHs...

[full sonnet]

we won't release a major update a month after the last one ^^

[scarlet root]

bis_fnc_holdAction_showIcon is defined in the same file, isnt it?

[harsh orbit]

not the one I see:

[scarlet root]

[] L19 (A3\functions_f\HoldActions\fn_holdAction_showIcon.sqf)

but i dont have the latest A3 data extracted

[harsh orbit]

^ that's from latest data (dev branch)

[scarlet root]

so is it a separate file now? or do you have to include in each scope now?

[harsh orbit]

it has been moved to its own function it seems

[scarlet root]

alright

[harsh orbit]

but the define was forgotten

[scarlet root]

will report

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T164353

[winter crescent]

2.10 is currently more likely in late summer, but it's really not confirmed yet.

[full sonnet]

does the LOD2 for lineIntersectsSurfaces even work?
I'm trying VIEW and FIRE on a car window.
FIRE hits the window, view doesn't.

If I put VIEW,FIRE it hits the window
If I put FIRE,VIEW it doesn't

I'd expect both to hit the window 😕
As if it ignores the LOD2?

[harsh orbit]

if the object has LOD1 it ignores LOD2

[full sonnet]

oof

[harsh orbit]

performance thing

[full sonnet]

annoying, I thought I could get both lods at once

[harsh orbit]

maybe add a new flag? 😅

[full sonnet]

You have to keep in mind that materials are not present in VIEW lod, so they will always be empty string there

[carmine juniper]

Ah, that's why it does seem to ignore an LOD there...

[harsh orbit]

well I primarily needed the FIRE lod

[full sonnet]

ye fire is fine

[harsh orbit]

materials are not present in VIEW lod
wait so how does the game detect tree leaves for example? (reducing visibility I mean)

I'm not an object maker so I don't know how that works 😅

[full sonnet]

Tree's have FIRE

[harsh orbit]

I mean AI visibility

[full sonnet]

Why would they need materials for that :u

[harsh orbit]

well if there's a surface property that reduces visibility having it would be nice 😅 (I'm still not sure how trees work and google is not helping, so sorry if that makes no sense...)

if not nvm...

[harsh orbit]

[ViewGeometry]
model must contain:
convex meshes
Components (selections Component01; component02 atd...)
only UVset 0
material (defines transparency)
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3:_Vegetation_P3D#.5BViewGeometry.5D
according to this page they do

[full sonnet]

🤔

I think that refers to texture

I return only the surface type, not texture/material

[harsh orbit]

oh right:

Models, which have property class=tree or bush are calculated as partly transparent by default (without any linked materials).
it's optional

Their "viewDensity" values are hardcoded...they can be overridden only by material used on Apex bushes called foliage_sparse and foliage_dense. Stacking two meshes, one smaller inside one bigger, both with foliage_sparse material proved to work very well on Apex bushed. It is causing edge of the bush to be gradually more transparent for the AI towards the edge of the model and still opaque in the center

[harsh orbit]

maybe material too if it exists 😅

I don't know if I might need it

I don't want to create another ticket if I do...

[harsh orbit]

there's no texture in those lods tho

they're not visible in the game anyway

[full sonnet]

Tell me next week when you test it

[harsh orbit]

ok. thanks

[unreal arrow]

On it

[ivory ridge]

Hi,
dev Version Win Client is reporting Version 2.09.Something.
dev Version Linux Server is reporting Version 2.08.Something.
I can't connect with Win Dev Client to Linux Dev Server (over LAN). Is this the reason why?

[harsh orbit]

there's a dev Linux Server?

[full sonnet]

no, there isn't

[ivory ridge]

NVM is not for server. My fault

[full sonnet]

no, there isn't

[full sonnet]

Nightvision star sky

[harsh orbit]

I never noticed that they weren't there 😅

[full sonnet]

Now 5 grown men in a boat in the dark in the middle of a ocean looking out for star constellations

[unreal arrow]

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....

[harsh orbit]

allObjects is so cool
thanks @unreal arrow
btw does -1 mean 63? or does it just become unsigned int or something by the game?

-1 allObjects 0

seems to be the same as 63 allObjects 0

also are there more flags? or is 32 last?

nvm. looks like there isn't

[full sonnet]

Its a bitflag
Primary=1, //!< Normal object placed in Visitor, part of landscape
Network=2, //!< Road placed in Visitor, part of landscape
Temporary=4, //!< Temporary object (like tracks)
TypeVehicle=8, //!< Some entity added by game
TypeTempVehicle=16, //!< Temporary entity
LandDecal=32, // << Land decal

[unreal arrow]

Use 63 (1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32) to return objects of all types.
Techically this is not how it is done, the correct way is 1 | 2 | 4 | 8 | 16 | 32 but in this case the result is the same

[unreal arrow]

-1 should set all bits to 1 and therefore match any flag, but we are dealling with floats so...though it may work up to 32

[full sonnet]

the parameter is cast to int, so -1 float is converted to -1 int. Which has all bits set

[unreal arrow]

yeah
float 10111111 10000000 00000000 00000000
int 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111

[full sonnet]

it doesn't use the float bits, it converts float to int

[full sonnet]

Also a story for the people who say Arma should be more optimized..
I want to use compute shaders to do something more efficiently, should be fine, compute shaders are old technology..
Compute shaders are Shader model 5, about 2012-2013 graphics cards, should be fine?

Arma minimum system requirement is shader model 4, and a graphics card from 2008.

Whatever I do, it also needs to work with a 14 year old graphics card.
So now I have the choice, implement two things that do the exact same thing, one the inefficient way for old hardware, and one the modern and more efficient way.
or do I only implement the inefficient way and use it for both old and new hardware :/

Or trick solution 3: Use something different for old hardware, where they get worse results but it will just about work, and just hope that everyone who actually plays the game has newer hardware and concentrate on that.

[mental fulcrum]

I think raising minimum requirements happened in the history of video games quite a few times.

And it would be quite reasonable for game such old.

[halcyon moth]

well, maybe on the basis that in practice the game kinda needs 2012+ hardware anyway.

Older stuff could maybe get through the SP campaign with a lot of suffering?

[full sonnet]

The minimum requirements listed very likely cannot play the contact campaign.
But noone tested it because we don't have such old hardware anymore 🤣

Well I have a GTX 275 still around

[mental fulcrum]

Like honestly it would be the best to just bump the requirements... But I guess that's management decision.

[full sonnet]

Also btw, HDAO, the shadowy thingy has two implementations inside Arma already.
And it switches between them depending on if you have newer tech available.
The older one is probably worse in some way considering they felt the need to make the new one

[mental fulcrum]

Post out a message that 14 years old hardware (yikes) is not supported anymore and maybe create a legacy branch for anyone who would want to complain that they can't even play SP.

Majority of people will benefit. There's more to gain that to lose.

Like really, what can be played on 14yo GPU these days? Candy Crush?

[full sonnet]

Games from 10 years ago 📉

Oh wait

[mental fulcrum]

Mhm, I want to see current Arma 3 version played on minimum requirements PC.

Pain and suffering

But hey it probably launches just fine!

[full sonnet]

I'd love to see it, and then hear that the game basically cannot run at all.
That makes the decision to change the requirements easier

[mental fulcrum]

You said contact won't run most likely, I wonder how Livonia or Tanoa alone runs on such old HW.

[halcyon moth]

Well, newer CPU and older GPU might work.

I had to downgrade to a GTX 670 after my card killed itself and it's fine for med-high A3. That's still a few card generations above shader model 5 though.

wonders

Are you allowed to do anonymous hardware surveys or would players need to tick a box?

[mental fulcrum]

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3:_Analytics

[halcyon moth]

Analytics will help us with decisions such as the removal of redundant video options, proving that such options are indeed no longer in use

there we go :P

[tepid dock]

I was about to suggest that you simply could use telemetry that you have (or modify the current telemetry to include such data) to prove that literally no one has launched Arma with such hardware within a month so literally no one will suffer from bumping the requirements up

[hollow basalt]

FYI, dev branch doesn't launch on my PC.
Exception code: C000001D ILLEGAL_INSTRUCTION at 98E25192
If you want I got RPT and mdmp.
Stable version is 👍
PS. my PC is ancient.

[full sonnet]

I want yes

^ See! thats what I'm talking about with minimum stuff :/

[hollow basalt]

I'm PM you.

cancel friend request. ill drop the link on the forums in a second.

sent PM msg on forums.

[halcyon moth]

What CPU is that out of interest?

[hollow basalt]

im too ashamed to share, sorry 😄 He'll know.

[halcyon moth]

pre-AVX? :D

[hollow basalt]

i guess

[harsh orbit]

Is adding new branches a no go?

As in a legacy branch for old hardware users so you don't break anything

[full sonnet]

no

[harsh orbit]

New branch for new hardware users?! 😛

[full sonnet]

I just said no

[harsh orbit]

:p means I wasn't serious

[halcyon moth]

I guess something like a Core i7-950 or OC'd i5-750 would run A3 semi-ok. 8MB cache, good memory throughput. Pre-AVX.

[lament crow]

The old minimum requirements would run A3 at 10 Fps in most situations anyway. I say there is no problem upping them if that will translate in smoother gameplay for 90%+ of the current A3 players. Additionally, I play several games that supported Windows XP and even Windows 7 when they were released and now (after patches) only support Windows 8.1 and upwards so it is a very common practice

My oldest computer, an AMD FX 6400 + a Geforce 750 GT ran arma 3 at 20 FPS at most with all settings on low... the game looked so bad that it was impossible to spot Ai enemies in the distance. They were basically blurred dot pixels.

It was such a poor experience that I hated arma 3 for the first 2 years until I got proper hardware.

So those minimum system requirements that are set currently don't really do the game justice. It gets so much better after a couple of years of newer hardware

[harsh orbit]

Yeah I do agree. The recommended one is what I would really call "minimum A3 requirements"

Actual recommended specs is unbounded 🤣

[lament crow]

I think that the "minimum" should aim for hardware that would at least offer 30 FPS steady and minimum while the recommended should aim at 60 FPS steady... So yeah, the current recommended would offer that steady 30 FPSs in most scenarios.

[harsh orbit]

Actually it's good enough for 60 FPS in single player (at least the vanilla campaign)

[lament crow]

Yeah vanilla is pretty forgiving, both in performance but also in not representing the true sandbox potential of A3. Now Old Man is a good example of the true Arma experience/potential so running Old Man at 30 fps should be the bare minimum in my opinion

And of course then came SOG and set a completely new standard even for Bohemia in terms of quality, content and sandbox experience

[ivory ridge]

If BI haven't a clause in his terms like "we can change hw recommandation if want" it would be a little problematic. Maybe a lessons learned for the next long running "game as a service". But i would say it is no problem to support parallel a newer technology if available.
For example if the game supports different directx versions.
So the "old" render path is still available but some development is only available in the new one.
Shader Model 5.0 is part of DirectX 11, right? So why not integrate this in the DirectX 11 render path of Arma 3?

[versed abyss]

Solution 3 seems to be the way to go. Can't you do it with a launcher option? So even if the new shader isn't working for some hardware they can turn it off. And then based on bug reports. You can make an automatic setting that sets it off on not compatible hardware.

[rich pond]

As far as I can tell, compatibleMagazines returns items with scope = 1 (I assume compatibleItems too)
Does anyone know if those commands return items with scope = 0 and if it returns items that don't exist?

[halcyon moth]

Potentially, yes.

if ( (getnumber (_magazineCfg >> "scope") isEqualTo 2) || _showHidden )

[harsh orbit]

they mean the command I think

not the function

[halcyon moth]

Oh, there's a new command? Explains the channel :P

[harsh orbit]

yeah

[harsh orbit]

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/compatibleMagazines

[frail wharf]

which one of you are responsible for this?
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/saveMissionProfileNamespace

[pallid cliff]

@frail wharf if you mean the biki then #community_wiki

[frail wharf]

I mean the missionProfileNamespace itself

It will make persistent missions not performance nightmares

[full sonnet]

Killzone Kid made it

I guess this means we will get more Arma content in the TV news :/

[carmine juniper]

Do you mean... better IR depiction?

[full sonnet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508635914646323202/973491266224549888/2022-05-10_09-46-15.mp4

[harsh orbit]

What is that? HDR in IR mode?

Or temperature tweaks?

[full sonnet]

Actual proper contrast/histogram equalization instead of the mess it was before

[calm wasp]

currently IR is a nightmare, when looking for targets from altitude flying a jet.
I believe something was changed, without even mentioning it, because before one could see targets better

[carmine juniper]

Ahh. I always thought that's how it is

[full sonnet]

It didn't change, this is image from 2014 from Arma, and comparison with real FLIR

Its been like that since A3 release atleast, and I was told A2 as well

[calm wasp]

if that can be improved, it definitely should be, because it's a nightmare until now

[full sonnet]

I already did it. Its in polishing phase now, and I know its gonna happen so I'm starting to share screenshots now

[carmine juniper]

If, yeah, if I can have a request about this improvement, I'd love to see a sharpness filter on it. Perhaps with adjustable values. Like this pic, I somehow like this
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QoD0BTMETZk/hqdefault.jpg

Or, is that an old IR camera?

[harsh orbit]

I'm sure this change is gonna bring its own complaints
I've read people think that IR is too unfair

[carmine juniper]

No war is fair

[full sonnet]

probably yeh.
But well, it is that way

Also we have 2035 IR tech

[carmine juniper]

Fair enough

[full sonnet]

But there will be options for mods to adjust the OP-ness of their IR, mainly through resolution and noise

[harsh orbit]

I guess one complaint was that temperature doesn't affect IR properly
Or something like that

[carmine juniper]

So like modern (aka 10 years ago) IR tech too for like RHS or Arma 2 era?

[full sonnet]

Mods can now make noisy 640x480 IR, with digital or optical zoom
Or high tech 4k noiseless super IR (the default in vanilla, basically)

[carmine juniper]

Yeah sounds fair for 2035 IR

[full sonnet]

I showed an example of that here https://twitter.com/dedmenmiller/status/1522996841557676032
last image

Dedmen Miller (@dedmenmiller)

A journey in 4 images 🪤

Twitter · May 7, 2022, 5:48 PM

This is it now (slightly different spot)

[calm wasp]

same as night vision allowing you to see stuff even 12 km away )))

[unreal arrow]

dope

[cosmic crow]

AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

This is something I've dreamed about seeing since 2013, even made a ticket showing and talking about how the FLIR looked great and useful for targetting and scouting until the HDR kicked in and normalized the values. Seeing your efforts is very exciting.

[full sonnet]

Did you know that there are thermal footsteps?
No? Because you could never actually see them? oh! Well.

[full sonnet]

The old system was, find center of temperature range, use arbitrary hardcoded value in -/+ and display that as range on screen

If temperature was not close to center, it was either pure black or pure white.
And even in the range, the - side of the hardcoded value was often lower than ground, thats why ground is so bright, and the + was so high that the range was so wide in total that only a small area in the middle got actual values

[mental fulcrum]

It's awesome you're improving it, but at the same it's quite sad (shame on you BI) that it was in such bad state for so long time.

Makes you wonder how much better the game could be with a bit more resources and love.

[harsh orbit]

I don't like that objects are white too

they don't seem to be hot 😛

unless Arma has metal simulation 🤣

[full sonnet]

Yes I'll try to tweak that, but that has also always been like that

[mental fulcrum]

It depends on TI textures, doesn't it?

[full sonnet]

👣

[mental fulcrum]

It would need changes in assets.

[full sonnet]

if they have some yes, many of these assets don't though I think.

Specifically stones are hot on terrain, they really shouldn't be, I think stone temp is decided in shader

[steel rune]

sandbags

[mental fulcrum]

Stones actually do get hot, depending on climate ofc ;D

[carmine juniper]

We actually just need multiple Dedmens to fix entire Arma 3

[mental fulcrum]

but it looks bit weird, like asphalt road should be hotter than concrete walls. If sun is shining.

[past socket]

How is the clone program doing?

[mental fulcrum]

Also I doubt you would see footsteps on TI, on an asphalt road.

[harsh orbit]

he's barefoot ok? ()

[full sonnet]

The only input data we have there is the surface texture of the object.
We have to fake generate thermal data based on that.
In some places it works (for example terrain ground, looks really well. Bright/dark spots depending on the color of the ground texture), but on buildings its crap

[mental fulcrum]

sadge, maybe lower the values on buildings a bit? they glow a lot.

[full sonnet]

I cannot fix everything with limited resources. I cannot do any data changes.
I can only do programming stuff.

Yes, I want to try doing that. Thats up next after some cleanup

[past socket]

Also some vegetation is weird and it shines more than a tank with engine on.

That A3TI addon is doing some funky stuff by replacing the textures with pink colour. If vanilla thermals get improved, that will be great 😄

[cosmic crow]

This system went into effect shortly after the FLIR was activated, hence the strong values then going to mostly grey's?

[full sonnet]

The flir has latency with adjustment. I guess the first blip is just default 0 values

[cosmic crow]

Regarding the white objects, while it may not necessarily be realistic it would better discourage servers from disabling it.
I remember arguements about FLIR online being too good at finding targets, so many simply disabled it and used only NV at most.

[full sonnet]

If a objects color is close to this color, its cold.
If its not close to that color, its hot.

Makes sense for terrain textures, doesn't at all make any sense for rocks and houses.

Thats why terrain looks so good currently, that color fits well with terrain
And obviously doesn't fit for rocks and houses

[ivory ridge]

What if multiple Colors can be defined. For example additional color grey for houses and rocks. Then the nearest color (green or grey) will be determined on the objects. Then translated for the grey things in a "equivalent green shift". Now grey things are also cold.
Mh "grey" would lay "on the way to hot"==white. So this would not work
Why not all things that not have "TI-Image" are considered as cold in a random range of some degrees?

[full sonnet]

Nevermind, the color doesn't seem to be the issue afterall

There is a variable in the shader that adds a temperature offset, thats used for impact craters and fire particle effects, to make them hot.
If I comment out that line..

[willow yacht]

Make Arma open source 🔥

[past socket]

Soon™️ ? xD

[full sonnet]

Ahhhh.
All Multi shader (buildings, rocks) objects
add a hardcoded temperature offset of addTemp=ambientShadow*0.15

ambientShadow is the https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Texture_Map_Types#LightMaps
green channel component of the AS map.

Its probably supposed to make self-shadowing objects properly shadow themselves.
But all it does here is make big bright

It should make shadowed areas a bit cooler.
What it does is leave shadowed areas as is, and make everything unshadowed about 2x as bright as it should be (well +0.15°C, but thats significant enough it seems)

[cosmic crow]

this only occurs on multi materials, it doesn't effect the _AS map of super shader?

[full sonnet]

nope, only multi.
I don't actually understand why Super shader doesn't do the same, it has ambient shadows too, it really should
Might just add it, will have to check on some vehicles/units how it looks

[cosmic crow]

This has nothing to do with thermal images (I think...) but is multi material also hard coded to use only the map assigned _env map and a default fresnel value? wondered this for a while since there is a fresnel & enviornment map stage in super shader but neither in multi.

[full sonnet]

I don't want to look that up now :harold:

Hm indeed multi has no env

in Super the lighting specular coef is fresnel*specular.g

in Multi the specularCoef is just SMDI.g

so no fresnel at all?

and env reflections in multi are just set to 0, so multi just doesn't reflect

[cosmic crow]

that would explain some things, thank you for checking

[harsh orbit]

speaking of shaders, did you up the shader model or is it a no go?

[full sonnet]

Lucky for you that Arma takes so long to start up 😄

[full sonnet]

Arma has shader model 4 and 5.
The new stuff only works on 5, so people with older GPU's will only get the thermal contrast I had last week.
Still better than before, but not optimal. And I just hope that basically noone will have such a old GPU

[harsh orbit]

even GPUs as old as GTX 400 series ~(2010) support shader model 5

200 doesn't

[full sonnet]

I still have a GTX 275 at home 😄

but it stays in its box

[cosmic crow]

collector item or backup?

[full sonnet]

both 😄

Theres also still a 8800GT in my parents attic.
I had it hung on my wall until I moved out.
I don't throw away my GPUs 😄

Hm.. All GPU's I've ever owned have had Arma ran on them

I guess trees are next..
But if I continue like this then our thermal imaging will only be a black/white rendering mode 😄

I really should do something based on sun angle, the side that sun shines on should be warmer than opposite side.. Feature creep

[ivory ridge]

I have a 6600GT in a running Athlon XP 3600+

[cosmic crow]

if it's a highly beneficial feature

[unreal arrow]

Someone tried this 10 years ago, it didn’t go well

[full sonnet]

Man this looks boring now

[calm wasp]

but at least it's how it should be

[full sonnet]

man real life is boring

[harsh orbit]

wasn't it like this before?

[ivory ridge]

how looks explosions/fire?

[full sonnet]

Those are the old trees.
I kinda prefer that visual effect of "too hot" trees

[harsh orbit]

this looks better imo

just make them a bit less hot 😅

[full sonnet]

I'll try with half as hot. The previous image was 1/4th as hot

[ivory ridge]

yeah it looks nice. But if you fly helicopter in night with TI low through forests it would be to easy i think

[harsh orbit]

for reference (random image from google...)

[calm wasp]

although it might seam to look nice, there is a problem - hot trees/bushes are a problem for UAVs, helis and jets, when trying to spot infantry, since trees will hider a lot, infantry blending with trees

[calm wasp]

here you can see, that the soldier is as hot as trees/bushes, which is not how it should be.
such hot trees/bushes also make it possible to hide (only small?) vehicles/armor, provided vehicles/armor are in a (dense) forest, full of trees/bushes

[cosmic crow]

seems tricky given the trunks are much hotter than the leaves

[full sonnet]

We have different shader for trunk/leave I think.
So that should be doable

[cosmic crow]

So these are effecting the shaders from the top down?

[full sonnet]

White object in bright sunlight: 23.38°C
White object in shadow: 24.78°C
Black object in bright sunlight: 28.28°C
Black object in shadow: 24.78°C

One of these doesn't sound quite right 🤔

[harsh orbit]

well it depends when the object was placed in shadow 😅

[calm wasp]

I think that black stuff gets hotter in the sun that white stuff

[harsh orbit]

it also loses heat faster

[full sonnet]

Yes, it does.
But.. Its news to me that sun makes white objects become cooler than ambient

[calm wasp]

but that white stuff is hotter in the shadow than in the sun... no logic, for me

[full sonnet]

Ah this is annoying to fix..
Base terrain ignores sun shining on it, so its cold.
But objects on the terrain consider sun shining on them, making them hotter.

So you get bright white stone wall, on dark terrain

[calm wasp]

simply rewrite whole Arma 3 and that's it

[full sonnet]

Even more annoying.
Multi shader does not consider sunshine impact.
But Super shader does.

But buildings are Multi shader, but if you zoom out far enough, buildings switch to lower LOD, which then uses Super shader.

So you have the same object, that is not affected by sunlight when close up, but is affected by sunlight when you go further away
Either add sunlight to everything, or remove sunlight from everything

[calm wasp]

I think it's same crap that a lot of players use when search for enemy, using thermals, even despite enemy having thermal suite
a lot of players know, that depending on the distance and/or zoom level of UAV, heli or jet camera, one's able to see a soldier, despite him wearing thermal suite

[full sonnet]

But soldiers are already super shader..
But maybe they switch to non-super at lower lod and that makes him change temperature?

[calm wasp]

no idea

I was found and killed many many times as infantry by a heli, despite wearing thermal sniper suite from Marksmen DLC and also CSAT thermal suite from Apex.
i then was told, that depending on distance or zoom level of the thermal camera in heli, one can see me no problem, despite my suite, from a very long distance

[full sonnet]

Gotta have to test that

[calm wasp]

there is also a problem with most if not all armor.
depending on distance or thermal camera zoom level, one can find almost any armor, since even if it never had its engine turned on, you can see the crew inside it very hot/white and thus find the tank or AA thanks to its crew inside
$must certainly be LOD problem?

[full sonnet]

Sounds like it

[calm wasp]

that's what most knowledgeable players have been doing for years to find (any) armor, thanks to its crew being white through armor itself

[full sonnet]

Seems like super shader is the only shader that actually does thermal correctly.
It interpolates between black/white lit/unlit and determines its temperature that way.

Most others just do okey airTemperature-0.1 to airTemperature+1.9 depending on what color I am, don't care if lit or not

[calm wasp]

a lot to dig/test )

but important and super useful/needed change/fix/rewrite

[unreal arrow]

does it change during day/night?

[full sonnet]

Can't test now, but i assume they get darker/closer to terrain temperature

[cosmic crow]

Wouldn't the zoom level spotting be more related to the contrast of the thermals growing more and more intense as you move further? Similar to how if you get too close you can see the thermal details clearly but the background gets washed out

[full sonnet]

No, it's related to LOD levels switching

[teal snow]

man that fog barrier for view distance and the sudden cutoff to the sky

[full sonnet]

Well that's Arma for you, also for non -TI

[teal snow]

fog barrier made black on thermals?

or is that hard coded

[full sonnet]

Sky is black, fog is air temperature

The harsh line at top is horizon line, i will make that a bit smoother to fade out towards top

[rain parrot]

I noticed setOpticsMode and getOpticsMode commands, are these supposed to work on vehicle optics also, or just on infantry weapons?

[formal cipher]

For now just infantry optics. I'm working on a solution for turret optics.

[full sonnet]

Livonia

aaa

[harsh orbit]

wasn't this supposed to be white hot?

[full sonnet]

it is, the vehicles are off

seems they are quite a bit too cold when off :/

[tepid dock]

Why is there such a big difference in the road's color (across its whole length) in the first screenshot?

[full sonnet]

I think roads in general fade out after some distance, and instead of the road model you only see the terrain texture below it

air temperature is 21.8°C
but it makes the turned off tank only 21.0°C warm...

Because it thinks that white objects, in bright sunlight, should be 19.6°C
Because as everyone knows, when you shine light onto a white object, it cools down

When light shines onto black objects they go 21.8°C->25.3°C and heat up. Jup. sounds about right.
When light shines onto white objects they go 21.8°C->20.4°C and cool down.

Typical #Arma moment

[tepid dock]

Sounds like yet another "why has no one noticed it sooner? Oh, the difference was barely noticeable until a few days ago?"

[full sonnet]

Its actually in the world weather config

temperatureDayMax[] ={10,12,15,20,25,35,35,35,25,20,10,10};
temperatureDayMin[] = {-10,-6,-5,-1,5,6,7,10,5,2,-5,-10};
temperatureNightMax[] = {5,6,8,10,13,18,26,25,15,13,8,4};
temperatureNightMin[] = {-10,-10,-10,-5,0,4,5,6,5,0,-5,-10};
overcastTemperatureFactor = 0.4;
blackSurfaceTemperatureDelta = 5;
whiteSurfaceTemperatureDelta = -2;
It says white surfaces in light should be -2 relative to ambient temp

mh, Multi shader and rocks and trees are all withing -0.1,ambient,+1.9 range.
if I just make that range much wider, that may fix the issues with too bright/too dark objects, if the whole variance everywhere is higher
Messy

[harsh orbit]

well it depends what terminology they use here. if it's from a thermodynamics pov, it's correct

a white surface can be cooler than the air around it

[full sonnet]

but it looks way incorrect. :poutcat:

[harsh orbit]

if it's literally white color it's not necessarily correct

[harsh orbit]

in thermodynamics, a black surface is one that absorbs all radiation
white surface reflects it all
air also absorbs radiation
so white can be cooler, if you ignore air convection on the surface

maybe that's what they mean by white/black surface, not the color

[full sonnet]

Thats what they mean.

But still that makes a white object in sunlight, hotter than the same white object in shadow. With how the calculations work

so putting a realistic value that matches what was "meant", may not be the right approach if something further down the line doesn't use it like meant

Oh boy. Using the same black/white temperatures for all shaders (instead of just for Super) actually does make quite the difference

[harsh orbit]

looks way better

[full sonnet]

SO much better

The buildings are still a bit off, but much nicer

[harsh orbit]

some trees are black, some are white

road is black

[full sonnet]

Road is just the fade effect fading away to terrain.

Tree's calculate based on their color, maybe need to reduce the range for trees a bit

🤔

They are literally same color though, weird

[carmine juniper]

<- what we're doing

[full sonnet]

ono he smoke, and they too cold now

[full sonnet]

Just increasing the variance makes buildings stand out less, even though they still do stand out

[steel rune]

neat 🙂

[full sonnet]

Previously the contrast was calculated in 16 steps, now its at 512 :pog:

[harsh orbit]

RIP my FPS 😢

[full sonnet]

Nah fps is still better than before 😄

[steel rune]

50 ms/frame 😰

[full sonnet]

Mr. Starlight 🌞

oof that dude has a skin temperature of 41.6°C

[tepid dock]

He should go see a doctor and get a sick leave for today

[steel rune]

https://tenor.com/view/anger-disney-explode-rage-inside-out-gif-5318601

[hollow basalt]

Dedmen, any feedback on dev not launching on my PC?

[harsh orbit]

speaking of dev, no release today?

[winter crescent]

Nope: "logistical issues"

[cosmic crow]

Was that smoke or nitrogen

[harsh orbit]

I think he meant the smoke was too hot, and the tanks were too cold in comparison

[full sonnet]

Thats whitehot.
And its either engine exhaust or dirt thrown up because its trying to drive

[full sonnet]

I forgot!
I now remembered.
POPCNT instruction, introduced with intel Nehalem in 2011

oops no missread, 2008.

AMD introduced it with K10 in 2007

Sadly our minimum system requirements only say "dual core cpu" but not which. So I cannot say "your CPU doesn't meet minimum spec" :/

Fixed next week, now this code just runs ever so slightly slower

Are you only using dev branch, or why did you not notice the same on #perf_prof_branch ?

[hollow basalt]

let me try perf.

prof crashed 😦

sent PM on forums with mdmp and rpt, both perf and prof. Prof was from steam, perf was from your Gdrive. Both crashed.

[full sonnet]

well if its same error then i fixed that

[hollow basalt]

I was on stable and jumped straight to dev to try the nightvision thing. Only now tested perf_prof.

[full sonnet]

ah thanki

[hollow basalt]

Cool, man. I appreciate it 👍

[full sonnet]

almost feared I forgot to merge that one to perf

[hollow basalt]

Anyway, thanks.

[halcyon pewter]

I'm sorry if I missed it, the Thermals looks great. Will there be also an option to use it in PiP mode?

[full sonnet]

it works the same in PiP ye

[halcyon pewter]

Great news! Thanks a lot

[teal snow]

is the thermal test stuff on dev?

[ivory falcon]

I'm guessing no options for thermal blocking smoke?

[teal snow]

dosent it already?

[hollow basalt]

Idk, I can't launch dev. But the nightvision thing i'm mentioning is the stars appearing with NV (I think that is already). AFAIK thermal is WIP.

[teal snow]

ooh, im gona check that out

[harsh orbit]

not yet

[full sonnet]

smoke already does that

[full sonnet]

1 or 2?

[calm wasp]

2 of course

[trail aurora]

1 FPS more in second picture

[full sonnet]

inactive vs running engine, mh (ignore the trees)

We are loosing a bit of contrast on the terrain though, and I prefer the harsh contrast on terrain between grassy/sandy bits :/

Well that I like alot more, just the trees are too hot. These cold vehicles look pretty usable

that dude be hot tho

[full sonnet]

I found a better way to do it, contrast limited histogram
Before/After

[carmine juniper]

Seems betr

[full sonnet]

also quite reduces thermal OP-Ness now

[carmine juniper]

Out of curiosity what if look up the sun/moon?

[full sonnet]

Don't know if sun is currently rendered :harold:

Or I think only the sun is rendered, but we don't have bloom effect so you barely see it.
I won't bother fixing that

[full sonnet]

I think I'll just leave it at this, and then we'll see what people think on dev branch next week
Off tank on left, on tank on right, with a bit of inf inbetween

[unreal arrow]

makes me wanna play night missions

[full sonnet]

Livonian fields

[hazy umbra]

@full sonnet how do tracers and explosions look?

[hazy umbra]

Very nice

Looking forward to trying that out 🙂

[full sonnet]

Could be a bit hotter the smoke, and also some bloom but doesn't look like that'll happen

[hazy umbra]

Yeah bloom would be nice, also in normal NVG's... but if not in this life, then maybe in the next

[harsh orbit]

Shouldn't burning vehicle be hotter?! 😛

[full sonnet]

🤫

[full sonnet]

Mh that backpack on that unit looks a bit hot, lets debug that.

Okey the backpacks desired body temperature is.... 150°C... Yep.. Yep ok.. Well.

[harsh orbit]

maybe a flare went off in his pack?

[ivory ridge]

If i look at your green image, I would say that not really hot things should a little bit more less "contrasty". So Terrain, Buildings and vegetation is more not so detailed and hot things like vehicle and men a little bit more white.

[full sonnet]

:confuseddog:

[ivory ridge]

#dev_rc_branch message

this seems have more contrast on hot things

In the green picture the hot tank has nearly the same color as the building in the background

[full sonnet]

Yep, I know a solution for that, but don't want to invest the time to implement it.
Need to use a slightly different algorithm for the histogram equalization

[ivory ridge]

Yeah this are only my two cents. 🙂 Before as tank in urban area you haven't seen barely nothing from the structures only hot things. Now you can very good navigate in FLIR mode.

[full sonnet]

Why do humans have a configured skin temperature of 150°C
Like literally.

desired body temperature is 150°C, in config.
and mFact says how well they are able to keep control their own body temperatur

[halcyon moth]

They look kinda cold on the thermals there, considering.

maybe it's a bug workaround :P

[analog fractal]

Eh, 150 * .2 comes out to 30, maybe mFact = 1 implies perfect temperature control and thus setting mFact = 1 and tBody = 30 would make it so that body temp never changes from 30 and this was a weird workaround?

[ivory ridge]

I have a question: Would this influence the Viper-Camo things? There nearly as cold as ambient.

[full sonnet]

human maximum skin temperate temperature is
lerp (23.9°C, tBody, mFact * 1) (last 1 comes from the thermal texture, first value is ambient temperature including sun heating)
which comes out to 49.12°C max skin temperature

I really shouldn't try fixing that in the shaders, that needs to be fixed in configs

[full sonnet]

Do all "Viper" units have that camo?

[ivory ridge]

i think so

helm vest and suit

[full sonnet]

well they are definitely cold 😄

[ivory ridge]

and backpack

[harsh orbit]

they are too visible

[full sonnet]

Yes definitely quite the difference.
That viper unit is roughly 25.2°C, and that normal unit on the right is 40°C, and terrain ground is 24.24°C
So the viper's thermal shielding is definitely very effective, compared to normal units

[harsh orbit]

in current version they're practically invisible

which imo is what it should be

[ivory ridge]

yes, because the "background" has no contrast at all

[harsh orbit]

it's just terrain

and some rocks

[full sonnet]

If the ground would be at air temperature, they would still be.
But now ground is a bit cooler than air, because grassy

Here's clothes at exactly air temperature. the viper's thermal thingy is still perfect, it puts it to exactly air temp

[harsh orbit]

well they still stand out very badly...

[full sonnet]

:poutcat:

[harsh orbit]

it changes the game dynamics

[full sonnet]

I could make them colder, but then they stand out when they are infront of trees or buildings, or on concrete instead of grassy terrain

[ivory ridge]

can you make the viper temp more ground-adaptive? So on street has temp of street and on terrain temp of terrain?

[harsh orbit]

the thing about current thermal is that no matter where you put them they're pretty much invisible
except in front of a hot thing ofc. like tanks or other units

[cosmic crow]

Huh, I always wondered what the biki meant when it said a 255,255,255 red channel ensures the sun metabolism is half the config value. Neat!

[full sonnet]

The shader doesn't know what they are standing on

[full sonnet]

Well yes because contrast in general is so bad that you can barely make out anything at all if it isn't like 40°C on a 25°C terrain

[harsh orbit]

thermals aren't supposed to have perfect contrast
otherwise it breaks the game balance and everyone is gonna use them for everything

[full sonnet]

They do have pretty good contrast though

[ivory ridge]

Maybe that helps: Terrain not so cold, Viper more cold. If Viper stands on street. street is now a hot object. So viper can be seen like in front of hot tank or building

in vanilla viper are only on tanoa, right?

[full sonnet]

terrain hot

[ivory ridge]

if you crank down viper temp a bit, the terrain hasn't to be so hot

[harsh orbit]

this is also very close to what it looks like in the game right now. (notice that the tree in both images is practically not visible)
I do agree that the contrast is a little too bad right now tho

but with your changes I feel like it's too good

[ivory ridge]

Another idea: Viper has only to work with vanilla assets. So optimize vanilla FLIRs to not see viper. 😛

[harsh orbit]

the problem right now is that the thermals are too good
I don't think they should be. otherwise there is no longer any reason not to use them

everyone's gonna use thermals the whole game

[full sonnet]

Everyone already says thermals are OP, even in the old completely broken way where humans are like sunlight on a dark background

[formal cipher]

The game is set in 2035, which has future tech

[harsh orbit]

this is more a matter of game balance

you can't change the game balance at this stage of development

people are gonna complain

I personally don't care because I don't play Arma in MP at all
but I'm sure those that do PvP will

[full sonnet]

Humans are much harder to make out now than before

I'd say this is alot less OP than before.
Its just, when close up, the viper units don't sink into background as much as they did before, which most players won't care about

[tepid dock]

I wonder about the number of "you broke the premise of my mission" complaints incoming 😉

[harsh orbit]

well try remaking that mission in APEX campaign where Vipers show up, see if you spot the vipers

I personally didn't see them in thermals when I played it

which made it a lot more challenging
I was using pretty much only thermals up until that point

if it still feels the same it's good, otherwise it's not

[cosmic crow]

it closer to some videos from more recent gen thermal optics

[ivory ridge]

if the viper blend more with terrain instead of other "hot" enemies, then there will be much harder to spot in non urban areas

ideally the temp should be between temp of terrain and maybe rocks?

[full sonnet]

what daytime is that mission?

[harsh orbit]

night

let me play it again (if I still have the progress...)

[full sonnet]

At night there is no sun heating

Theres two viper units

their bodies themselves are completely invisible at night, but their gun/backpack stand out :/

And it bright sunlight, they just heat up more than the ground and stand out

[cosmic crow]

Are the guns supposed to include some form of cooling like the suits?

[ivory ridge]

no i think not. there is no "active" cooling device

[harsh orbit]

date: [2035,8,13,0,8]
fog: 0.5
pos: [3373.59,5803.95,3.54963]

[full canyon]

If you wind down the intensity of the other stuff a bit more, that would be cool lol

That tree to be a bit hot

Or it just seems that way

[harsh orbit]

also I never noticed this but lasers are visible in thermals

is it still the case with your changes?

[full sonnet]

I didn't touch lasers, so probably

[ivory ridge]

I have set a viper on tanoa at night a if he look at you, you see his black vest. on leopards picture you see him from the side

[harsh orbit]

I think they should be tho
IR lasers heat the air...
but is it that much? at most I guess it's only a few millidegrees

[ivory ridge]

BTW: If you shoot the gun, only the silencer heated up. So the gun itself is cool.

[full canyon]

Easy answer is that a basic one couldnt, but the modern ones probably mostly can, even more so military grade devices

So it would make sense

[calm wasp]

don't forget about thermal sniper suit from Marksmen!

[grave viper]

What about smokes?
At least some of them are IR transparent (diesel vapor)
https://youtu.be/BlacCQZpYe0

[lament crow]

I was testing the CUP searchlights and you can turn them on during daytime so the lights can emit flares during the day for a few patches now yet Arma 3's default flashlights don't have this functionality even thou the engine is capable now. Is that a config tweak that will come in a future patch or has that been scrapped altogether?

Just asking because on a previous conversation Dedmen told me that making the flashlights work during daytime was viable while the lights of the vehicles probably not (perhaps due to the amount of them?)

[full sonnet]

data and engine tweaks are two seperate things.
adding support for something is one thing, making vanilla use it is another

[full sonnet]

[full canyon]

Tent?

[full sonnet]

There is a IR Masking tent

[full canyon]

Ah nice

[full sonnet]

Everything I do to adjust for this one specific Viper Armor just makes literally everything else worse

[cosmic crow]

Is there a value that determines how much heat the AS puts out? always wondered why the AS acts as an inverted shadow map in flir, heating up what it touches as opposed to doing the opposite

[full sonnet]

Temperature depends on pixel color.
Black pixel in sun heats up more than white pixel in sun.

AS makes shadows, it makes pixels darker == pixels become hotter

Most thermal actually runs the normal shader (including colors and AS and reflections and stuff) and then applies a thermal shader on the output, which takes mainly the color the main shader put out, and tries to convert it into something thermal

[full sonnet]

in the right light, the sun effect looks quite nice

[full sonnet]

I noticed sunlight direction didn't work on tanks..
The sun direction is provided as 0,0,0. No idea for how long this has been broken, but probably a very long time..
That means tanks (and other vehicles I assume) didn't receive any sunlight influence

its like digging in a sandbox at a playground, sometimes you grab into a syringe.

[mental fulcrum]

Building destruction will awake nearby ragdolls?

[ivory ridge]

Is that a meme or a bugfix? 😄

[full sonnet]

These floating people is the most annoying thing ever!
Does it also work for statics? like a static M2 gun on a building?

[viscid onyx]

Is that automatic or do missionmakers/modmakers have to make EHs to take advantage of the new wake functionality?

[mental fulcrum]

Ragdolls throwing tanks into space when you drive over infantry is more annoying :P

Or maybe it's groundholders, who knows.

[full sonnet]

its ragdolls

[mental fulcrum]

Which have collision disabled in MP...

But they don't :D

[unreal arrow]

just dead for now, tellme more

[unreal arrow]

ragdolls have collisions while simulating

[unreal arrow]

automatoc, happens on every stage of building destruction

[viscid onyx]

N I C E

[unreal arrow]

could have been scripted with new awake functionality easily but it is better to fix it in the engine

[full sonnet]

I think if you just place a static M2 gun on, especially the big military container tower. And then setDamage 1 the tower the gun also stays floating

[mental fulcrum]

Would be nice if they could not influence other physx objects, at least in MP.

As it's buggy AF.

[unreal arrow]

can you give me a simple repro?

[ivory ridge]

• place enemy soldier
• place tank and throve over enemy
• enjoy the flight (sometimes)

[unreal arrow]

so it is ragdoll vs vehicle?

[mental fulcrum]

It never happens when you want to test it.

Yeah ragdoll vs vehicle.

The best case is somewhat loaded dedicated server

player in a tank

remote AI

run over

50/50 fly or not

[unreal arrow]

could you make a ticket please?

with exact repro

[mental fulcrum]

https://i.imgur.com/bJGMSgD.mp4

[unreal arrow]

i need ticket

[mental fulcrum]

yes

[viscid onyx]

I wonder if this is connected to the thing where you sometimes can't walk past dead bodies

it would be nice if that got accidentally fixed...

[ivory ridge]

I would say Viper Armor has to be really good under specific circumstances (because of vanilla campaign mission):

• on Tanoa
• at night
• on terrain / non urban
• distance >100m

[full canyon]

Since when is the new vic simulation in DayZ in place, cause it seems the same bug appeared in Enfusion too😂 ? Just cant get rid of it. Could be wrong tho.

[mental fulcrum]

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T164804

Do you actually play the game like in missions or only dev it? I do not want to sound offensive. But you see these kind of stuff just be playing the game

[full sonnet]

At night the viper units are really great.

[mental fulcrum]

Like I've seen it dozens of hundreds of times...

[full canyon]

You talking about vics going to space?

[ivory ridge]

Is there a way to reduce the influence of sunlight to the viper? It would make sense because the suit is active cooled.

[full sonnet]

yes, there is now a parameter to control light influence, but it needs to be configured in config

[full canyon]

Also, will the thermals get certain customization options like aperture? Or at least config-wise?

[viscid onyx]

It would be amazing to have thermal/NV quality (e.g. grain and resolution) as a difficulty setting or a per-vehicle script command (like disableTIEquipment) or something. I realise that's most likely out of scope though.

[full sonnet]

config has resolution and sensor noise

[full canyon]

Well im talking more about those things you might find in IRL thermal devices

[ivory ridge]

What if the viper has a TI Image that is not heterogen "hot" or "cold" but more like a "patchy" thermal signature like optical camo? So it would be harder to recognize the viper on different backgrounds and it breake the human "pattern regognization" of a human body.

[full canyon]

Aperture to adjust your device to whatever environmental condition there is to see the best

[full canyon]

Ayoo, dont pressure him too much or hell need emergency ramen😂

[ivory ridge]

I provide only different ideas for solving the problem. It is only brainstorming (or brainshitting?!?).

[unreal arrow]

Thanks

[mental fulcrum]

Thank You for taking a look!

[full canyon]

It'd be very funny if after literal years the vehicle flight bug woulf be fixed just like that

[calm wasp]

I've tested it and it's not ragdolls at all.
if you driver over a body with no weapon - everything is ok with your tank.
if you drive over a body with a rifle or at/aa - say goodbye to your tank

[full sonnet]

Driving over a body while its not in ragdoll state, doesn't give you ragdoll

It is ragdolls.

[full canyon]

Its rigid structures, like turrets etc

[full sonnet]

Happens especially often when unloading dead bodies from vehicles, as I think ACE sometimes unloads it under the vehicle and its ragdolling at that point and poof gone

[full canyon]

Those send you flying

Or other vics

[full canyon]

Well for some reasons, pretty often the body ragdolls have little to non impact

[full sonnet]

body ragdolls also kick over walls, because they have a very high mass

[full canyon]

If a body glitches with a vic, usually the body goes zoom and the vic perhapd jumps up a few inched

[full canyon]

Ok yeah, that I have seen

[full sonnet]

or the body stays and the vehicle goes zoom

[full canyon]

Never seen that tho

Think the reason for it is that the body parts can move, but rigid structures cant, so theyre more risky to intertwine with

Good combo is a tank and a turret

Guaranteed space trip

Is this like an unfixable thing or is there a way to counteract it?

[full sonnet]

Well there is probably a reason why these issues have been there since ever and not been fixed yet

[full canyon]

Ok ok, what price?😂

[tepid dock]

Same could be said about the IR thing that you're working on, or the "UAV going in circles" bug that has been present for as long as I remember that @unreal arrow fixed some time ago (love you! 😘 )

[lament crow]

And are you planning on making vanilla flashlights use the engine functionality you added or will that new engine functionality be limited to mods as it stands now?

[foggy canyon]

Along a similar grain, objects will stay in place, such as sandbag walls.

[viscid onyx]

That's unlikely to change since objects like sandbag walls don't have physics to begin with, they're always fixed in place, and changing that would retroactively break a lot of missions.

[unreal arrow]

Some sandbags are EPE if I remember, however since there is BuildingChanged EH, one can delete all those non EPE objects from EH

[grave viper]

ACE does not choose where to unload. It’s just getin and moveout to seat with unconscious unit.

For me RHS BTR80 most commonly became space shuttle.

[mental fulcrum]

Happens with dead bodies too.

I recall getting in RHS UAZ, and the body that I replaced sent the vic into space.

[harsh orbit]

I've never seen a can of worms this big 😛

[unreal arrow]

meh, all sandbag compositions are not epe, I thought I saw a single sandbag somewhere but couldn’t find it

[ocean tundra]

whats epe

[harsh orbit]

PhysX

[full sonnet]

ACE has a single sandbag thats physics

[rigid warren]

worst thing is that sandbag wall could collapse on you 😄 https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/288601701275510561/08B52CCFA2DA0BB6051B5ECBCAB862976212F93C/?imw=5

[harsh orbit]

so is there a dev update planned for this week? I'm still waiting for the "roadway" LOD crash fix

[full sonnet]

yes

[unreal arrow]

Everyone is reforging

[lament crow]

Looks like the dozens of Reforger devs went into hiding and the little A3 devs remaining went to the rescue and into damage control mode...

Also funny is that it seems like they are having people who barely worked on the engine do their engine/modding documentations 🤣

🙃 BI will just never change

[full sonnet]

Most of the documentation is done by Lou

[mental fulcrum]

🙃 Valmot will just never change and write stuff without having any idea about the subject

[harsh orbit]

looks like someone wasn't 😛

@full sonnet

later crashed with unable to init directx11 error

[full sonnet]

ahhhhhhhhhhh

Can you send RPT

Are you running without mods?

can you check if dta/bin.pbo properly updated

[harsh orbit]

no, CUP

I'll try vanilla

also in vanilla

[harsh orbit]

ticket or DM?

[full sonnet]

dm

[tepid dock]

dev\futura\lib
I think that with the release of Reforger with the new engine and so on, you should rename that directory to dev\pasta\lib

[full sonnet]

Reduced texture resolution in thermal mode so you cannot just read billboard text in thermal as if it is just a black&white image.
But the roads

[viscid onyx]

You could reduce it a bit less? In principle, text being slightly visible makes sense because of darker/lighter surfaces having different reflective/radiative properties

[full sonnet]

Problem is its a lod offset from the auto calculated, so it gets more clearer the closer you get :sad: which looks crappier than if it just stays low all the way

[lament crow]

On a side note, don't you dare jump boat just yet Dedmen and KK! Until A4 our good old A3 still has lots of life in it!

[frail wharf]

I'm totally okay with billboards and graffiti being readable with this thermal revamp.

for billboards wouldn't it be possible to remove their textures whenever the player is in thermal?

like call setObjectTexture [0, "gray.paa"] on them

[full sonnet]

no, not possible, or not feasible

[ivory ridge]

streets normaly in grey/white to black tone. maybe handle all other colors different?

(mh dirt roads more brownish)

maybe different handling over orientation? (streets more flat, billboards vertical)

[lament crow]

I don't even know what was wrong with the previous thermal... it was fine for all my players and never heard anyone complaining...

[ivory ridge]

Or maybe can Streetobjects are been identifed and handled different?

[frail wharf]

It's not realistic as it could be

IRL thermals are way more usable than what we have currently

[lament crow]

Thank you for explaining, in that case I am very happy and grateful that this is getting improved 💯

[safe vale]

The changes are much appreciated, having actual contrast and not such a basic implementation is a welcome addition.
This video has a few examples of the nuance real thermal sensors are capable of: https://youtu.be/dgd9YvGqlh0?t=8

[tepid dock]

Or this one, although it says "High Definition" which IMO seems a bit OP 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5FzvySG-uQ

[frail wharf]

Considering the game is supposed to have 2034 tech...

[full sonnet]

I can make it absolutely perfect and show the temperatures like they are represented in engine, but that sadly just looks shit 😄

[lament crow]

Yeah you gotta find a balance, this is a game after all and gameplay/balance comes a little before realism...

[teal snow]

thermals in dev branch look 💯

PIP thermals are actualy usabel now

i take that back

it works but then seems to break in pip real quick

[full sonnet]

what do you mean by break? it stays single color full screen?

Night thermals are pretty crappy right now still

[full sonnet]

I made a change to clamp colors to distinct steps (something like 0.02°C steps)
and together with the reduced texture resolution, it looks kinda amazing on the terrain

Before noon that is.. oof.. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[teal snow]

In a mod I use the pip turns black after some time or a time skip does it instantly

[hollow basalt]

dev branch is working again (for me that is). Thank you Dedmen!

your screenshot though #dev_rc_branch message looks cooler than my game. I have somewhat big blobs on the larger stars. Wtf, they went away . Meh, nvm. Looks great 🤩

[hollow basalt]

Mhmm, idk how's the workflow between branches, but prof is crashing windows 10 on A3 boot. dev is ok.

[formal cipher]

Dev is just all commits and goes through qa. Prof consists of cherry picked commits without qa. There are even some pieces of code on prof that are disabled on dev.
If you can get any crash info, whether that be crash dumps from arma or from the windows event viewer, send them in #perf_prof_branch or directly on the feedback tracker.

[hollow basalt]

ok, ill send those to dedmen through PM on forums as I did the previous ones if you don't mind.

[rigid warren]

you should try Arma 3 Thermal Improvement mod (A3TI)

[formal cipher]

That is good too

[past socket]

Tho be ware that this mod is doing some funky stuff with texture replacement. For example texture of tank gets replaced by a pink one. Sometimes it stays replaced even after exiting the thermal imaging.

[lament crow]

I guess I will just wait for Dedmen's implementation... also not a regular user of thermals so... I like my colors 🙂

[teal snow]

also the mod sets the pip texture every frame, not sure if thats relavent

[past socket]

I've tried the mod only briefly, but seeing dedmen doing the magic, I'm happy that I won't have to use that mod and stick to the vanilla which will get insanely better 👍🏻.

[lament crow]

Yeah, having to rely on less mods is always better for both performance and for compatibility with BI's own missions.

Another mods out of our list are those trying to fix dead bodies staying mid air. KK fixed that 8 year standing issue and reached legendary status on my book. I swear that both him and ded can move forward A3 years when they wake up with the right foot.

[full sonnet]

Yes it is, that resets the pip data, and thus also the automatic constrast adjustment of the pip screen

[lament crow]

Another mod that is super popular but completely destroys performance and causes lots of issues is Walkable Moving Objects. Leopard literally made the mod unnecessary by a simple invisible model and a script command that is also very performance friendly. Sadly that fix will probably remain out of the player's hands

[teal snow]

yes that sorted it, sorry about that NVM, i can literaly cause black screen by changing my aspect ratio, or changing it fixed the black screen

all of this fuckyness may be caused by arma pip not liking anything other than 16:9 aspect ratio

[teal snow]

im ranting a bit but nothing i do stops it bricking black at some point

[full sonnet]

I also had a report that firing main gun in tank can brick it, still have to fix that

[lament crow]

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SaDfhnwEOg (Arma 3 compared to their real life counterparts), Including thermals

[pallid cliff]

Time to get some better particle effects 😄

[lament crow]

Is it true that having E-cores (Efficient Cores) enabled in the Intel 12th Gen processors hurts Arma 3 performance? I have read some comments that said that disabling the E-cores made their Arma ran at 30+ FPS compared to having those enabled...

[steel rune]

Depends on what your scheduler decides

[grave viper]

I can test if you describe methodology. Arma have so much pitfalls where I can lose fps despite core types.

Overall disabling e cores allow you get better overclock on perf cores and better ring(cache) overclock. Arma would like more cpu power. And 8 perf cores enough for almost everything

[lament crow]

I was asking because if that is the case, then perhaps the devs could include a fix so that Arma 3 does not consider the E cores and just uses the P (Power) Cores and so players don't have to manually disable their E cores everytime they want to play Arma 3.

[steel rune]

some changes were made to profiling branches but caused issues with windows server, so they were rolled back

[halcyon moth]

Also if you're running Win10, I don't think it knows the difference anyway.

[lament crow]

I am thinking that this is not as easy to resolve as adding an option in the A3 Launcher for players to "Check" which cores Arma 3 is allowed to use....

[halcyon moth]

It's kinda weird because most of the threads are fine on the E-cores. You just want to keep the main one on a P-core.

You can force affinity in task manager if you really want to, although it has that issue that you'd have to force all threads or none.

[lament crow]

Reminds me of the good old Need For Speed Most Wanted released in 2005, it hated the Hyper-threading cores and so if you disabled Hyper-threading in your BIOS you would get twice the FPSs

The difference being that Most Wanted was soon unsupported after release while A3 is still kinda supported. Specially regarding new technologies disrupting its playability/stability. I hope this gets resolved soon because I am planning on geting a 13800K when it releases 🙂

[halcyon moth]

I imagine it's fine on Win11, if you can stand that.

[lament crow]

Yeah, it is kinda bad having to rely on external solutions to make the most of your very expensive hardware but that is the only way to get around it at the moment

[lament crow]

I missed the part were you where willing to test it. Pretty easy actually. Run the YAAB benchmark with E cores enabled, record the FPS, then disable the E cores in your bios and do the test again. Post the FPS difference here. Done.

I have a 7th Gen i7 so I can't do it 😅

I wander if the difference in FPS will be so significant as the other guy said

[full sonnet]

What is repro for that?
Just have pip screen with thermal on it, go to video settings and change aspect ratio setting?

[teal snow]

yes

but i started on 21:9, PIP has never liked my ultrawide

[full sonnet]

Cannot reproduce changing from 16:10 to 16:9

neither 21:9

Maybe I somehow already fixed it, there will be some changes on this weeks dev branch

[teal snow]

maybe

is there also a way for you to fix how pip will take your aspect ratio and condense it into a 16:9 format, because when i use ultrawide it squished the image

[full sonnet]

pip really shouldn't do that, it renders a fixed resolution

[mental fulcrum]

but isn't it taking the fov into the account? They differ between aspect ratios IIRC

[full sonnet]

that might be yeah

ooh 🤔 right..

could fix but not sure if I want to go down another rabbit hole

[teal snow]

if its to big of a rabit hole dont bother

[grave viper]

For Win 10 seems like true. (tested on stable. Don't compare between OSes)
||

        min      avg     max
W10 p+e 34    60,2    85
W10 p+e 40    60,3    109
W10 p+e 38    58    97
W10 p+e 40    58,8    97
W10 p    42    67,2    113
W10 p    45    65,8    108
W10 p    42    65,2    103
W10 p    45    66,8    110
            
W11 p+e    34    63,5    96
W11 p+e    43    61,3    99
W11 p+e    38    59,7    91
W11 p+e    43    61,8    89
W11 p    34    63    100
W11 p    47    65,9    107
W11 p    41    64,4    91
W11 p    40    63,8    100

||

[halcyon moth]

How many p/e cores is that?

[modest token]

@full sonnet I'm curious, how difficult would it be to create a profiling branch that captures timing data for user installed mods? I expect there are at least a couple mods out there that crater performance, yet people blame arma.

[lament crow]

Super interesting, another very interesting finding is that Windows 10 under just the power cores runs better than Windows 11 on any combination.

And also that the difference on AVG between E-Cores enabled versus E-Cores disabled is ~10 FPS... Which is not a small margin. Going from a 300 USD GPU to a 800 USD GPU will only net you perhaps those extra 10 FPS which in turn will just be negated by Arma 3 not being E-Core "friendly".

[lament crow]

Many times that is the case. For example I measured that just by having the Ravage mod enabled it decreased my overall FPS in Arma 3 by 10 Frames. Also the map and the mission complexity can hurt performance so very often it is not just the mods but also a combination of those other factors.

[grave viper]

I would not recommend compare between oses in my case. This is not clean sanitized installations. Different services and apps in background and different ssd drives

PS not sure that this is dev_rc topic

[grave viper]

You can use dedmen’s arma profiler

[grave viper]

12700k 8+4

[carmine juniper]

Thought it's an old feature? 🤔

[harsh orbit]

RainParticles and setRain now both have ability to simulate snow. The last bit of immersion is muting birds and insects sounds during snow would be updated with next data update

[carmine juniper]

Hmm

[winter crescent]

To manage expectations: there will not be fully featured vanilla snow in A3. KK is only adding some foundational support for mods which may want to use it ❄️

[unreal arrow]

This ^^^^

[unreal arrow]

That was long due since addition of snow param, didn have time to finish for 2.08, now you have it

[mystic sparrow]

Strawberry snow it is then.

[unreal arrow]

you can

The video has snow texture of real snow flakes

[ruby edge]

Is the snow texture included in the game files ?

[unreal arrow]

no, but I’m planning to add a sample

[full sonnet]

stamp done. Day and night acceptable. Viper armor working well enough.

[harsh orbit]

did you fix the VR skybox? 😛

[full sonnet]

😠

Tomorrow

And that glitch that completely bricks vision and makes it all black or smth, I couldn't reproduce yet

[harsh orbit]

btw shouldn't the grass color be closer to the ground color (a bit grayer)?

[full sonnet]

yes. But when I move things closer together, the histogram equalization code will just pull it apart again, but with more glitches and issues and weirdnesses especially when there are units in that area

[lament crow]

It looks at least 200 times better than before already! 👏

[full sonnet]

There will still be people who complain on release, hope it's not too many

[lament crow]

It is impossible to fulfil everyone's expectations but knowing that you did your best given the time and source material constrains you were dealt with it is more than enough and anyone asking for more is just out of place. Hell I thought we wouldn't see this sort of meaningful updates to A3 at these stages and here we are still getting sweet unexpected gifts from you guys

[teal snow]

nice looking thermals

[hot wave]

🎉

[full sonnet]

@teal snow I couldn't reproduce your issues, so I hope they are fixed in today/tomorrow dev branch update, if not then ping me

[full sonnet]

Some tweaking for error context for config errors

13:12:23 Error: test
13:12:23 ➥ Context: bin\config.cpp/Cfg3DEN/Compositions.test
->Last modified by: Dedmen_F_Test
now says which addon/mod touched it, thats a list of all addons that touched the entry, I think sorted by loadorder

[teal snow]

Just let us know when it’s live

[winter crescent]

IT'S LIVE ⏰

[harsh orbit]

is it normal that some tree leaves are black but some aren't?

and they look kinda weird up close

[full sonnet]

I think its distance based.
Yes they look a bit weird.

But it adds variance, variance good

[harsh orbit]

I somehow broke the thermals 🤣
now it's all black

and I can't go to normal

[full sonnet]

Ah the issue Rosd6 mentioned that I cannot reproduce

[harsh orbit]

I can tell you what I did

let me see if I can repro first

even switching terrains doesn't fix it

I remember looking all the way up to the sky before it happened

[full sonnet]

The histogram slowly interpolates between old and current every frame, in order to have a smooth/slow adjustment effect.
The histogram never leaves your GPU so yeah switching terrains doesn't reset it.

I had one case where it would become NaN, but I added a NaN check to it and that fixed it for me :poutcat:

maybe it only happens in retail with optimized shaders Maybe it optimizes away the NaN check

[harsh orbit]

yep that's the repro!

[viscid onyx]

That sure is somethin'. I wonder if it's picking up some part of the model that's normally invisible, like an abstracted hitbox or something. Seems to match the "core" of the leaf clusters.
Not gonna lie, it looks.........bad. :|

[harsh orbit]

@full sonnet did you try this?

make sure nothing else is in the view

just the sky

[full sonnet]

yes, after Rosd6 told me I tried that

[full sonnet]

Its low res textures.
I can just turn that off and let it use normal textures, downside being that you can then read billboards and see pictures hanging on the wall as if it were just black/white vision and thats crappy

[viscid onyx]

Personally I would rather have mildly unrealistic readable textures than giant glowing blobs floating in the trees (given that it has to be one or the other and both can't be fixed at the same time). It makes it look like there's solid objects in there and really clutters up the view. Like, one is an aesthetic concern and one has a gameplay impact.

[harsh orbit]

well the repro is correct tho

[full sonnet]

Oki then I'll turn it back.
Wanted to test it and see feedback

[full sonnet]

Then it must really be optimizing out my check. grr that check has a reason 😠

omg I googled it

https://twitter.com/_humus_/status/1074973351276371968

Emil Persson (@_Humus_)

A common HLSL pitfall is that isnan()/isfinite() calls often gets optimized away, because HLSL compiler uses some fastmath-ish optimization rules, i.e. assumes non-NaN, so isnan(<assumed non-nan>) = false. Here's a Shader Playground testbed to illustrate:
https://t.co/1ogpco1eoH

Twitter · Dec 18, 2018, 10:23 AM

Fixed for next dev

[harsh orbit]

instead of NaN check why not put a bound on the value so that it never happens? (whatever it is you're doing, e.g. negative log or div by 0 that gives you NaN/infinite)

[full sonnet]

its a saturate now that will clamp it 0-1

I had the idea that if its NaN, it should instantly switch to target, instead of interpolating towards it.
but clamping it to 0 and interpolating from there will also work, just be a bit slower to get to target in the error case

I do lerp(old, new, deltaT)
Sometimes old becomes NaN, no idea why, deltaT and new can never be NaN...... Oh. Well I just figured out how it becomes NaN 😄

Mod compositions in PBO's
Maybe interesting for content mods like RHS/CUP, normal Eden compositions can be delivered together with mods.

[harsh orbit]

speaking of compositions, can you add a command that allows creating compositions?
in addition, can you think of a solution for getting all objects in a composition? (so that objects can recognize each other)

also where are compositions stored anyway?

[full sonnet]

in your my documents/arma3/compositions

[harsh orbit]

I mean in the game

e.g. objects are in CfgVehicles...

[full sonnet]

Nowhere

only in files on disk

Which is why previously you couldn't add them via mods

Compositions don't stay together after placement, things don't remember what compositions they came from.
The most you get is when you have layer per composition enabled, so they all get put into the same editor layer

[harsh orbit]

well what about spawning a composition multiple times?

e.g. in Zeus

[harsh orbit]

if there was a solution for this it would be very neat for scripted compositions

they typically need to "reference" other objects in the composition

[viscid onyx]

a solution for getting all objects in a composition? (so that objects can recognize each other)
This would be super useful for attachTo stuff. At the moment my workaround is to use a nearestObject to spot a "core" object, but I also have to wait for all the objects to be created because I don't know the creation order or when an init will be executed.

Being able to specify a creation order (or at least a first object) might be a useful alternative

[harsh orbit]

yeah currently people have to resort to many ugly tricks for scripted compositions...

[harsh orbit]

what about spawning them through a wrapper function that stores all objects into a variable (e.g. BIS_compositionParts) in a "core" object, as NikkoJT said?
or even in all objects? since the array will be a reference it won't cost much

[viscid onyx]

My absolute ideal would be to have all objects created first, frozen, then all the inits run, then unfreeze. Maybe with an extra "composition init" that runs after that as well, with an array of composition objects available as params. Guaranteed in that order. This would reduce the need for highly scripted workarounds to avoid physics disasters. I recognise that this is probably too much work/impossible, though.

[full sonnet]

I don't understand what you mean by that question

[full sonnet]

You mean a Eden command, that says "here are the objects, put em in a composition" ?

Or you mean, a script command that spawns a custom composition, basically like zeus does it?

[harsh orbit]

I don't know what I meant by that question either 🤣

[full sonnet]

thats trees without lowres textures then

[harsh orbit]

well a group of functions/commands for compositions, both for creating the composition and for knowing the objects that were created.

tho I guess that needs a config or something...
e.g

class CfgCompositions {
  class MyComposition {

  };
};

_coreObject = ["myComposition", _coreObjPos, _coreDir, _coreUp] call BIS_fnc_spawnComposition;

and then you could do this to fetch all objects:

_coreObject getVariable ["BIS_compositionParts", []];

that's kinda similar to how carrier parts work...

[full sonnet]

and billboards

[full sonnet]

Creating composition with script no.
The zeus version of that is already very hacky

[teal snow]

Still better

[harsh orbit]

but for mod compositions it should be possible, no?

because they have to be added in the config

class CfgCompositions {
  class MyComposition {
    #include "mod\compositions\MyComposition\composition.sqe"
  };
};

I looked at composition.sqe and it's very easy to create that using a function

I have an idea. what if you add a command that loads non-mod compositions as configs (similar to loadConfig)?

e.g. _compositionCfg = loadComposition "MyComposition"
which you feed to a function and it creates the composition for you:

_coreObject = [_compositionCfg, _coreObjPos, _coreDir, _coreUp] call BIS_fnc_spawnComposition;

[full sonnet]

Has the same issues.
The composition system was built for in-eden placement, not for live in mission placement

[full sonnet]

loadConfig can already do that, doesn't need a extra command

[harsh orbit]

wait. it can load external files?

[full sonnet]

ah I missed the non- part

Overall too much effort, not worth will stay the answer unless I either have too much time to waste or some big idea that I didn't have while implementing the zeus composition stuff

[harsh orbit]

well I can write the sqf functions for you if you want! 😛
then all you have to do is add the sqf commands
it should save you a lot of time...

[harsh orbit]

btw Ded, about the entityCreated event handler, was it supposed to be triggered for all objects?

e.g. it currently triggers for footsteps, bullet holes (craters), etc. so the frequency of triggers is too high imo

e.g. after a squad of 8 men has been running around for 10m it triggers ~100 times (some might've been due to insects spawning...)

[viscid onyx]

but what if I want to use it to detect every time a footstep is created in order to determine whether a unit has stepped precisely on a particular point with its left foot :D (https://xkcd.com/1172/)

[harsh orbit]

footstep marks are not created exactly where the foot lands 😛

[full sonnet]

That is intended.
Maybe it makes sense to exclude crater and footstep? Who would be interested in that

[harsh orbit]

I suppose adding another EH is out of question right?

e.g. entityCreated and objectCreated

entity one not triggering for craters and footsteps and insects (CfgNonAIVehicle things)

objects one triggering for all (like what we have now)

[full sonnet]

yes :poutcat:

CfgNonAIVehicle things
uh, thats a nice idea

[teal snow]

so the overcast at 20% which i cant see in normal vision almost completely blocks thermal detail past 30 meters is this correct? my bad thats just render range

fog is interesting

honestly im loving running around as infantry with these thermals

night + overcast + fog = complete black
but without night its okay?

[full sonnet]

Fog actually should be stronger than it currently is, or dense fog atleast

Overcast reduces temperature variance, and night even more.
Things that are not heated like humans or vehicles just merge into the background

[teal snow]

fair enough, i love it

the fog after 50% cant be seen through, with base at sea level so i think its quite strong unless natural weather dosent reach 50%

[teal snow]

Yh but should it ever be 0

[harsh orbit]

I was wondering about something. Is it possible to make the "HitPart" or "Deflected" event handlers work with grenades (and other throwables) too?

[full sonnet]

yeah I tried to add some minimum, didn't work very well but I might try again

[full sonnet]

If they currently don't then no

[harsh orbit]

If they currently did I wouldn't ask 😛

[harsh orbit]

but it would be fairly neat for altering the grenade bounce

they're too bouncy right now

[umbral orchid]

ah thats a shame they dont but not all that surprising they're unique in that they're physx

compared to other projectiles

[harsh orbit]

yeah. but Epe EHs don't work on them either

[halcyon moth]

Would it be possible to... make grenades less bouncy? :P

[past socket]

There are mods for that on the workshop.

[royal spear]

Do you use a mod like that? Can you recomend? 😀

I found many about no 40mm shell bounce, but not for grenades.

[frail wharf]

Can we bother Dedmen and KilzoneKid to fix a ~~8 ~~9 year old bug here?

[viscid onyx]

If you want to re-up an FT ticket, #arma3_feedback_tracker is the place. Don't excessively spam people with pings about it, though. (Especially since it's outside work hours right now)

[frail wharf]

oh yeah, i was looking for that channel, so many chennels to look at here

I get lost sometimes

[full sonnet]

Last weeks thermal was kinda nice already tho
When you're inf on takistan atleast

UFF. Partially atleast

[harsh orbit]

this looks more realistic imo

well if thermals looked perfect, can you give me a reason why not use them 24/7?

when they're bad, you force the player to switch out of them every now and then and not cheat the whole time...

[full sonnet]

In my "perfect" image its harder to make out units than in the broken one.
In the broken one you have one clear color, only interrupted by brightly glowing units that stand out really well

[teal snow]

I agree that seeing the units shouldn’t be a focus of thermals but under fog and overcast terrain & foliage will almost never be the same temp as they generate different thermals

[dim pier]

Hey, just out of curiosity, any idea when 2.10 will be releasing? 😅

We’re planning a project which will rely on a feature released in it

[harsh orbit]

late summer was the plan iirc

[dim pier]

Gotcha, okay

[harsh orbit]

yeah

[dim pier]

Sounds good 😅

Very excited for it to release

Especially setUnitFreeFallHeight

Been dying for it to be released :P

[tepid dock]

2.10.2022 😉

(this may or may not be the American notation)

[harsh orbit]

so it may already have been released?

[tepid dock]

May or may not ☝️🤨

[full canyon]

Well yes, but the point is that the other things have no thermal readings, which is wrong.

[near hedge]

Well there is something off about the new thermals...
DTV: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/402901169585782805/980276807041425478/20220529030625_1.jpg
WHOT: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/402901169585782805/980276806521327656/20220529030623_1.jpg

[harsh orbit]

That's due to the low res textures

I guess it will be fixed in the next update

[brittle inlet]

Dev eye

[scarlet root]

@unreal arrow i think I saw you looked into PX with dead bodies recently - will this also stop infantry/dead bodies interaction with vehicles/tanks receive insane acceleration/sky rocket at times? if not, is there a chance to something done about with a FT+repo steps?

[scenic gyro]

For me at least, 'realistic' is somewhere between those two images.

[harsh orbit]

well that's sort of what I meant. it's "more" realistic than the first image, but it's still not good

[harsh orbit]

btw is the filter for footsteps/craters/insects gonna be implemented?

[full sonnet]

maybe next week

[unreal arrow]

will what stop?

[viscid onyx]

Bodies are supposed to not be "solid" as far as collisions with vehicles go. But sometimes they are solid, they clip into a vehicle while it's running them over, and Arma Space Program ensues. That's what they're referring to.

[grave viper]

Killzone_Kid, thank you for tooltips and icons in diary. For now all works as I wanted.
One question that trigger my OCD a little bit. Why tooltip rectangle have dimmed right border. Can it be fixed? Or this is just mine monitor render it that way?

[calm wasp]

@scarlet root @unreal arrow I've tested it a lot of times and, for me, it has nothing to do with bodies, at all.
it only occurs if a soldier has a weapon. with no weapon - no flight to the space, no matter the vehicle and no matter the number of times you roll soldiers over with it

[harsh orbit]

so I guess it's the weapon holder's fault?

[scarlet root]

possible too yeah

[harsh orbit]

when a soldier dies you sure see the weapon:

[scarlet root]

class ThingX: Thing
simulation = "thingX";
class WeaponHolderSimulated: ThingX

thats why probably

[willow yacht]

I would not be that affirmative: https://feedback.bistudio.com/T164804

[calm wasp]

the vid from the ticket only proves what I wrote and what you've quoted.

pay attention next time, before answering while having no idea about the subject

[harsh orbit]

the 2nd video didn't have any weapons tho

[calm wasp]

that's what I said - no weapons - no problems

[harsh orbit]

but there was a problem

tho I do see a weapon appear out of nowhere once the player is dead (must be player's, not the one that was run over)

[calm wasp]

you can easily repro it all yourself in the editor, any time
roll over a soldier with vs. with no weapon, using a tank or similar

[willow yacht]

What veteran shown is that on dedicated server, rag doll may have collision when it should not as discussed here #dev_rc_branch message

May be there is also an other issue with weapon appearing in both environnement (singleplayer and dedicated server)

[ruby edge]

It's definitely not due to weapons, we have the same problems with zombies (Ryan Zombies) and they don't have weapons.
As someone already said, repro only possible on a loaded server.

Also worth to mention: It can also happen if you run over a already dead player/zombie.
So i think its not only rag-dolls

[mental fulcrum]

my second video uses Competitor unit which has no weapon.

[full sonnet]

I also most often have the problem unloading unconscious bodies from a car, and unconscious don't drop weapons.

[scarlet root]

it seems to stem from poor networking handling of non-local objects
ragdolls just should be set to never emit force themselves
right now they just demolish anything they touch

[full sonnet]

Mod compositions in Eden is a go

[carmine juniper]

Existing cat?

[full sonnet]

Now just need to figure out why that composition that should have a blufor icon, has a red icon :/

[steel rune]

is there already a 🐱 in arma??

[harsh orbit]

[pallid cliff]

Catshark counts, yes?

[harsh orbit]

@full sonnet found a bug with thermals

btw those objects disappeared for good

switching thermals on and off or looking elsewhere doesn't bring them back

they do reappear in the day tho (that video was taken at night)

[full sonnet]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/805315055302082570/916967332822253588/image0-2.gif

[harsh orbit]

🪱🪱🥫 🪱 🪱

[ocean tundra]

2035 Thermal cloak paint 😂

[full sonnet]

new thermal update hopefully today with the textures thing fixed

[harsh orbit]

after today's update...

[full sonnet]

Read changelog please

[harsh orbit]

right. anyway, I've been getting a lot of crashes when I'm in thermal view now

something like DX device removed thingy

[full sonnet]

uv

send one please

[ivory ridge]

I have set a viper on malden. The TI is now inverted? if you shoot, the silencer becomes black.
Edit: Yes, Viper TI is inverted.

[full sonnet]

rhsusf_RQ11RAVEN flying drone is also CfgNonAIVehicles, and that one you would probably want to know about.
But collateral damage, that one is the only one I found that might be desired, the rest is indeed stuff thats usually not cared about and thats now ignored

[full sonnet]

can't reproduce
hot weapons are still hot

[ivory ridge]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815920513

day Stratis

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1863940509059041886/DCDA0A1E9CBC6783F9494C05D0964FD23BC1AC9F/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

same place night 0:00 AM

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1863940509059048958/ED35545E5A334C288762126C023BB0DB0282B517/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

silencer after shooting

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815923380

Bunny

My graphicscard is pretty old. How can i check that DX11 is running?

[near hedge]

Viper Helmet only has Black Hot. So hot things are black and cold things are white. Looks about right

[harsh orbit]

what is the model?

[ivory ridge]

It is Viper and you are right:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815929281

this from editor

[harsh orbit]

? I mean your graphics card model

[ivory ridge]

GTX 770m

[harsh orbit]

it's good enough for A3

and it does support DX11 and Shader model 5 (also supports 6)

[full sonnet]

" (also supports 6) " the article I found says it supports 5.1

[harsh orbit]

I have GTX 760m and it says 6.3:

[ivory ridge]

same place from editor 0:00 AM:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815931126

[harsh orbit]

but mine doesn't look like any of those so not sure what's wrong

[ivory ridge]

If i changed the time, it makes some "Adapation" more than one time (looks like psydelic animation) and this is the result. barely no contur is visible

all weather on standard (clouds 30%)

[full sonnet]

The sky is at 0°C, so if its white, then white is cold and black is hot.
And the silencer is getting black, so that is indeed blackhot and everything is working fine

But I guess maybe in inverted mode the sky should still stay black? 🤔 Not sure how real TI thingies do that be white

[ivory ridge]

yeah thats was my fault. I had not in mind that viper vision is in inverted TI.
But it is normal that at 0:00PM on Stratis there is barely nothing to see from the environment? is see only thermal contacts. the rest (contour of environment is nearly the same (see last picture from editor)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815931126

[full sonnet]

If everything is samey temperature its hard to see contours, so yes.
This is old thermal stratis at midnight (summer) in 30% overcast

[ivory ridge]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815936807

Stratis airbase at midnight

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815936849

same in TI. There a nothing to see

[full sonnet]

This is the new thermal in exact same scene after a few seconds, and after 20 seconds
That must be that bug leopard mentioned, objects completely disappear outright, thats definitely bug
In only the first seconds while you are in thermal, it looks as it should, then it degrades and goes to shit. I never saw that before in my testing. Also the road is so broken, I also didn't see that before either

it is to be figured out and fixed, tomorrow

[ivory ridge]

it looks like after sun is gone there is no contrast anymore (between 19:00 and 20:00) Later 20:00 all one color

[full sonnet]

But in the first seconds before the histogram adjusts itself, it looks fine.
Just something wrong in histogram adjustment that it bricks itself

[steep gust]

I would say that during the middle of the day and with a clear sky the changes currently in the Dev branch are incredible, however if you set weather to 100 or even just 50% at night, almost nothing is visible and it's worse than the original thermals were, if the histogram or whatever can be adjusted so thermals can be used at night it's would be incredible. I'm at work currently so can't post screen shots but I can send some later

[full sonnet]

The last image I posted is definitely bugged. all objects completely go away. In my testing the night contrast was better not sure what happens there.

[harsh orbit]

so I switched to stable and played around for a bit. no crashes. I also captured some shots from stable for comparison with dev

in stable, I can make out the trees and bushes individually (it's not perfectly clear, but you can make them out if you look close enough),

but in dev, everything is a gray mess...
on the plus side tho, I can make out the tree leaves against the pitch black sky
but they don't exactly help me navigate

the game crashed while I was recording the part 3 of the comparison, I was not in the mood to try again. I'll try again later 😅

but anyway, the point is that at the very least in that mission, the stable one seems better to me

[full sonnet]

but in dev, everything is a gray mess...
I already said multiple times that the adjustment is completely bugged

[full sonnet]

Yes found it.
How about...

And during day

and viper units are still great

Well sorry for that fuckup, gotta wait till next week then :harold:

Seems like the viper backpack is sometimes a bit twitchy tho

[harsh orbit]

Is the crash fixed too?

[harsh orbit]

Everything feels hot
Shouldn't they be cooler, and the overall color close to gray? the terrain should be gray too. it's too cold; it definitely shouldn't be cooler than the rocks

[harsh orbit]

Like the grass here. Its color is closer to what I mean

[full sonnet]

It is about 2 temperature steps above the terrain color.
The histogram equalization just pulls it apart alot. The difference is just 0.2°C

[ivory ridge]

maybe make histogram equalization not so "perfect/tight". Add some offset to bring the colors especially at night a little more "together"

[harsh orbit]

Well why not instead of max temp you use a minimum possible max (and similarly max possible min) so it doesn't vary so much?

[full sonnet]

wat

After equalization the brightness is equally distributed over whole 0-1 range.
Yes I can add a limit so it can only stretch in like 0.3-0.7 range, but that would cause issues with thermal imaging conversion textures, as that would essentially mean a big part of the range is just ignored

[harsh orbit]

?
Isn't what you do like HDR? Where you read the min and max value then normalize?

[full sonnet]

I calculate temperature in 512 steps, and then spread the steps out, buckets with 0 elements are removed, everything else takes up appropriate percentage of range

[harsh orbit]

hmm I see

btw is it possible to just use the normal map (but not the textures themselves) so that, as you said, you can't read the signs and stuff anymore?

well I guess trees and grass are gonna be a problem tho

[full sonnet]

due to how this was built a decade ago, waaay too much work, so no

[full sonnet]

Result:
1017 ms

Cycles:
2/10000

Code:
nearestTerrainObjects
[
[worldSize / 2, worldSize / 2],
[],
worldSize * sqrt 2 / 2,
false
];
uff sad.

Result:
950 ms

Cycles:
2/10000
Ah much better kappa

[full sonnet]

Result:
6360 ms

Cycles:
1/10000
Ah the joys of multithreading 😠
Average cpu utilization raised from 1 to 11 threads, but its 6 times slower still 🤣

[harsh orbit]

1 s is fine if you ask me 😅

no need to optimize further

give us new toys to play with instead!

[full sonnet]

I'm working on new toys for me to play with 😠

Result:
966 ms

Cycles:
2/10000
Hah, now its multithreaded and just as fast as non multithreaded 🤣

But now I moved the bottleneck to main thread.
so..

1. Multithreading code is now ALOT more efficient if there are lots of results (from 6 times slower to about same speed as singlethread)
2. The bottleneck on nearestTerrainObjects on whole terrain is allocating the script values, and because that cannot be multithreaded, its not worth multithreading it.

But atleast now I have nice tools to use in cases where the mainthread thing is not the bottleneck

From, to.
Red parts are the CPU waiting on stuff and idling and wasting precious compute time.
The bottleneck didn't change but atleast much better now

[harsh orbit]

you already have that toy at home! 😛

[full sonnet]

Man these leaked Supply entities causing "object not found" RPT spam are really something else.
In March I implemented detection for entity leaks and fixed a couple of these.

Turns out, the fix breaks inventory interaction, because while the entity is broken and leaked with zero references to it on the client, the entity with same networkId still has references on the server.
So if we delete the leaked entity that will cause error spam later on, we also delete it from the server, which still thinks its a valid container, and then we cannot take items out of uniforms because the server says "that container doesn't exist!"

This is starting to turn into a unfixable mess that will probably stay forever broken

Some parts of the inventory system reuse an item, other parts reuse an item on local side, but tell remote to delete the old one, and spawn a new one, other parts delete and create a new item locally, but tell the remote to reuse the old item and just move it 😠

[ivory ridge]

What are the reasons for leaks? Desyncs between Client/Server?

[full sonnet]

Deleting containers, like uniforms/vests

[ivory ridge]

Is deleting a container a normal behavior/feature of the engine or a bug?

[full sonnet]

removing a uniform is normal

[halcyon moth]

Hmm. Is a uniform not a permanent container? Like it's only a container temporarily when wearing it?

[full sonnet]

If you put it on the ground its contents need to stay, if you delete it they should go away.
Problem was deleting it will not delete the container.
New problem is, deleting the container when deleting it will cause network desync as for some things remote doesn't delete it but local does

[ivory ridge]

From your explanation it sounds that at some point client and server have different "ideas" "where" and if it still exists. That's the "leaking" thing? If yes, I would say, leaks can happen because the algorithm is faulty (e.g. server "forgot" to say client where container now is or if it still exists) or the communication between client and server is not robust enough.

(sounds like dedmen answer)

[full sonnet]

If yes, I would say, leaks can happen because the algorithm is faulty
yes, it is. Thats what i was trying to say

Seems like I will reintroduce the entity leaks, to keep the inventory system working

[ivory ridge]

Or maybe it is a good idea to go one step back and look on the problem from a more abstract view: Exists some documentation for the container algorithm?

[full sonnet]

No

it doesn't make sense to rewrite this so we'll just stay with the less impactful bug

[ivory ridge]

An other quick and dirty hack would be if a leak happened, the engine force some container synchronisation.

[full sonnet]

That sounds like a couple days or a week of work, not worth it

[ivory ridge]

pity (im Sinne von Schade)

[lament crow]

Won't making the "Container deletion event" Global in all cases instead of Local in some cases fix the issue? Or that would strain the server too much?

[full sonnet]

That would just make items randomly disappear unexpectedly

[lament crow]

Well, maybe instead of brainstorming we could just look at how reforger deals with the same issue. I am pretty sure that this inventory thing is fixed over there. No need to re-invent the wheel. I am pretty sure you can peak on how it is implemented there, right?

[full sonnet]

Reforger has a completely different inventory system, I don't know how you think thats gonna help in any way?

Its a completely different system, on a completely different engine with a completely different networking architecture

[lament crow]

Yeah you are right, bad suggestion from my part. Feeling ashamed so gonna go for a while now 😅

[full sonnet]

I feel bad for wanting to share whats going on now

[teal snow]

the joys of watching this

[lament crow]

Sharing is good, there are very knowledgeable people here that could give you actual "good" ideas regarding problem solving. Coding requires an incredible amount of imagination and creativity.

[teal snow]

iv managed to do something similar, night with 0 overcast or weather, and the whole world fades to 1 colour

[full sonnet]

Yes i talked about that, known and already fixed internally

Also other known issue, church (every building with a bell) roofs aren't heated by sunlight direction 🍿

[teal snow]

thats gods work there giving the residents of altis free AC

[steep gust]

With the recent addition of all other IR types to PIP I was wondering again about the currently disabled PIP chromatic aberration effect and whether that'd be something that could be looked at, would be really nice to have for dual render scopes and such 🥺🙏

[full sonnet]

currently disabled
What do you mean by that? That it exists but was disabled, or that you want it to exist but it doesn't

[steep gust]

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setPiPEffect

"currently not working"

The array is apparently passed in the debug consol when I try BC it will inform about incorrect values and such. My guess is BI had problems implementing it due to stability issues (maybe?) And just disabled the engine from running the effect

[full sonnet]

ah thats seperate of thermals though :harold:

[full sonnet]

Doing it again

count nearestObjects [[worldSize/2,worldSize/2], ["House", "Truck"], 10000];
Current: 112.889ms
Rect and direct sorting: 89.4167ms
Rect, direct sorting and MT: 51.7ms