this is how you make your game peak without trying

[naive summit]

Story I made up:
After we get hit in the head into the pit ending then we wake up from the hospital from our consciousness but we can’t move there is a doctor telling something something that our memories is too corrupted and he can’t fix us and the narrator was the doctor the whole time helping us so he give up also add that we watching sister dying in our arms at a hospital to add emotional connection with this character. so we decided to fix it ourselves by exploring different parts of the world of our memories with a new device we have and we fix it. making it more open world this will make it not so linear gameplay as we fix our memories sometimes happen a mysterious character a girl maybe our friends or girlfriend seek revenge just add some kind of plot point then we have this boss battle it should be in the waterworks and she destroys all our memories corrupting it again far worse so we would lose but smile save us and he pink now this battle before btw expand the waterworks for the boss battle . Our goal is to find the missing memory that we need that one piece like that one piece and once we find it, we’ll find the truth the hidden meaning of what we’re doing this for milk this for like 5 chapters and add 2 spin off games of other characters and you should be set.

• add new items and a inventory system like a backpack and new mechanics to make it fresh
• add new characters like 5 in total we have 3 so far
Smile caleb narrator now add our sister a girl character 3 horror creatures something like poppy playtime
• more open worlds to explore and not be stuck in a linear path like we can do is like we can start exploring different memories in random order when we try to fix the corrupted memories.
• honestly the truth it was way to linear of a game and the map was small and not be like liminal space like we changing scenery too much at the time like let us explore the maps
• Chapter 2 no narrator
• make smile pink please and that his nice side

[patent escarp]

That’s honestly amazing although I do think the narrator is our conscience.

I think in episode 2 we will be in the darkest part of our minds after into the pit and the narrator will let us explore it because he doesn’t care anymore and tells us we’re on our own.

I also think smile will be a main focus.

[naive summit]

nah I think he should just be a doctor guiding though our memories as we are dying just like our sister

[patent escarp]

And maybe we’ll explore more traumatic parts of our lives

[patent escarp]

Maybe

Or it’s the part of our mind trying to relieve our guilt.

I think that’s most likely

Guess we’ll have to wait 2 years to find out

[naive summit]

game has so much potential but not trying hard enough it can change the mascot horror genre

[patent escarp]

Agreed

[naive summit]

No way it has to come out in a year like 2027

[patent escarp]

I think we should appreciate that it is one of the best mascot horrors

[naive summit]

all they have to do is lock in

[patent escarp]

No they said two years 😔

[naive summit]

wtf no way that cooking the player base poppy playtime did it in a year from chapter 1 to 2

[patent escarp]

True but subliminal is phenomenonicly better than poppy playtime graphics and length wise so it will take longer.

[naive summit]

after all the hate on the game it a big risk to take 2 years

[naive summit]

yeah but I think they can do it in a year if they plan it out right

[patent escarp]

Nevertheless sub episode two will be peak

[patent escarp]

People only hated the puzzles and they’ve been improved, I think the game is phenomenal

[naive summit]

Like they say changes and reworks take most of the time but now it set and stone so a year don’t sound bad maybe 2 year for chapter 3

[patent escarp]

Yeah true

[naive summit]

Not just that most people want to explore the places and getting the feel of backroom and liminal spaces and it not open world enough

[patent escarp]

True but people need to understand that it’s not a Backrooms game, it’s inspired by Backrooms topic.

[naive summit]

people are right for their complaints it all valid

that why we need to change that

[patent escarp]

True I just don’t get why people played the game knowing what it was and still complained that it wasn’t what they thought it would be

[naive summit]

Yeah indie dev was the main limit of there creativity and getting rush all the time to release it

[patent escarp]

True

[naive summit]

Now the game is more mainstream so chapter 2 will be 100% better I know for a fact and they can hire more employees that are more experienced which help so much

[patent escarp]

Yesss

[naive summit]

so that why I say 1 year sound not to crazy

[patent escarp]

I think one and a bit year, although a moderate or said 2

[naive summit]

I still think pink smile need to be in chapter 2

[naive summit]

2 year would cook the game trust

[patent escarp]

Idm they taking long as long as it’s a masterpiece

[naive summit]

bad opinion it can be short time periods and a masterpiece if you do it right it about if your willing to put heart and soul into it

[patent escarp]

Ik I agree I’m not saying it can’t, I’m just saying that Idm waiting if that’s what they need

[naive summit]

I know but it a big risk for it player base and if it a bad game after 2 years they can still make a chapter 3 like garten of banban milking there game of all of it

[patent escarp]

True true

[naive summit]

as we speak they should be planning new characters out rn

[patent escarp]

Or sleeping 😆 Personally I think lily should be introduced more and smile respresents guilt. Maybe a memory of lily should represent something else.

[naive summit]

do u know anything about chapter 2

[naive summit]

yeah and she should die off too to make it more emotional

[patent escarp]

Why?

[naive summit]

just want to know what in development rn

[patent escarp]

I’m not a dev idk

[naive summit]

Ok I just thought u would ask them about that

[patent escarp]

I unfortunately have no direct contact to devs that message was in general chat

[naive summit]

K

[hollow ice]

I just got here but can inform.

Episode 2 development has not begun yet, currently the focus is on finishing ep 1 polish updates, the archives, and ports, then episode 2 will begin dev.

[patent escarp]

Yayyy

[naive summit]

that is not good to hear but I guess it is fine for now

[hollow ice]

Unfortunately the team doesn’t have the resources to split workload on different things, ep 2 is just not a priority at the moment but development on it should start later this year last I heard.

[patent escarp]

I’m just focusing that it will begin dev soon tbh.

[naive summit]

Why are we so worried to finish polishing chapter 1 there is only so much we can do why not focus on chapter 2 this just makes no sense unless we are trying to make this come out on consoles which is a really good idea

[visual iron]

A) The polish Andie speaks of is part of the roadmap declared shortly after launch, up until v1.1. Not doing this would have left EP1 in a far worse condition then otherwise.

Just because a game is released, doesn't mean we stop working on it. Bug-fixes and minor changes will continue as long as it is deemed necesary.

B) The work we're doing on EP1 (Currently wrapping up v1.0.3.xs pipeline in addition to v1.1 development) is being done in parallel to The Archives. Info on v1.1 and The Archives is quite small for the moment until we feel the time is right to share more on both, and preferably in a way that isn't just a text announcement.

C) Console Porting relies more on the publisher side, then us, and there are aspects we have little (if any) control over. This however remains something we want to do before Episode Two, to fulfill our obligations and prior promises to the community.

D) Episode Two is expected to have a shorter timeline compared to Episode One, since by the time engine production is started on it, the foundation built from Episode One will already be solid and firmly settled. v1.1 is a core piece of that being setup in addition to The Archives, as both will add to that foundation.

[naive summit]

so what you’re saying is episode two is gonna be shorter than the first one

[agile dome]

Thats really stupid, in my opinion it should be longer than the first with more content

[visual iron]

No, I said shorter development timeline, not length.

A lot of Episode One's time was spent creating systems from scratch, which will not be the case for Episode Two,
as the foundations for what we want is already there and easily extendable for what we're looking at for EP2.

[naive summit]

So it come out in a year like 2027

[agile dome]

If everything is already made and you have all of these systems, don’t you think it would be longer because it would be easier to do?

[patent escarp]

Guys the devs are doing great I’m sure EP 2 will be amazing.

[agile dome]

The first one was a puzzle game with only one “creature”

[patent escarp]

It was still great imo

[naive summit]

I bought the game I played it when it first came out it wasn’t that bad I enjoyed it kind of

[patent escarp]

Personally one of my favourite games, I think one monster is a perfect limitation

[naive summit]

not really

[visual iron]

Sure, Episode Two could be longer then Episode One, but I'm not going to be confirming specifics, such as the length or ETA at this time,
I'm only stating that the time it takes to develop Episode Two will overall be shorter then Episode One's development time, since we have those systems setup and in a way where they can be easily extended on.

[patent escarp]

In my opinion it was a masterpiece

[patent escarp]

This is amazing to hear

[naive summit]

Saying it’s a masterpiece is the downfall of the game there are so many imperfections which hurt the game negatively

[patent escarp]

It’s just my opinion, I love games like that and when I found subliminal I fell in love after the waterworks

[agile dome]

I don’t agree. I think the game looked visually amazing, but the gameplay itself didn’t match that same level of quality. The lore is pretty minimal which is understandable for the first game, but it still should’ve had more depth and world building. There also seemed to be too much focus on puzzles and chase sequences instead of stronger progression and gameplay variety. I’m not here to hate on the game, I’m simply pointing out some issues. As a creative director, I naturally look at games from a different perspective when it comes to progression.

[patent escarp]

Fair enough and I completely see your reasoning and agree on some parts, all I’m saying is that I rlly like the game imo.

The puzzles took me ages but were very very fun

[visual iron]

In terms of depth and world-building, there is a stronger emphasis on this being addressed more in v1.1 -- v1.0.2 and v1.0.3 were meant to address the puzzle and chase sequences, and we are making adjustments to how both will be handled in EP2 (Since at a certain point, there is limits to how much EP1 could be modified, though we are personally satisfied with where the puzzles/chases are in v1.0.3, save for a few remaining bugs/oversights)

[naive summit]

So you a puzzle enjoyer

[patent escarp]

Yes but that’s not the only reason I enjoy it

[patent escarp]

The game is amazing and I love that you’re updating it thurther.

[naive summit]

I like puzzles but I’m mostly into boss fights when there’s like a hard boss to fight that’s when I’m hooked

[patent escarp]

Sub just isn’t really that type of game ig

[agile dome]

a lot of the points I brought up come from genuinely being interested in the long-term potential of the project. I’d honestly be interested in contributing ideas or feedback for progression, gameplay flow, mechanics, or world building if that’s something you’d ever want help with. As i mentioned before i’m a creative director and have worked with some small studios, I would enjoy being part of helping the game grow into its full potential. Im glad to hear there will be a chapter 2 expanding this story further.

[visual iron]

a lot of the points I brought up come from genuinely being interested in the long-term potential of the project.
That's more-or-less been the trend we noticed with most of the feedback so far!

Some of it is harsh, but most of it comes from a genuine place of wanting improvement and seeing the game's potential,
so even if we are a bit quiet, we have been looking over as much as possible on every possible platform, and are continuing to do so. 😄

As for contributing ideas or feedback, that's largely what #1346615571772346428 is for,
and is the best way to have those thoughts be heard, as we do actively look in here from time to time!

[agile dome]

I completely understand that, and from my perspective, part of why I’m interested is because I want to build experience and establish a stronger reputation for my résumé and future opportunities in the industry. Creative direction is something I genuinely what i want to pursue long term. I’m not asking for payment, I mainly want the opportunity to contribute, gain experience, and be involved in helping the project grow. I also respect that you and your team are careful about who you bring on board. I’ll definitely take note of the feedback channel. Even something as simple as being credited or having my name acknowledged for contributions would genuinely help me build my résumé and credibility moving forward.

[naive summit]

Most of them are not even harsh your understating the main problems burying them which effectively will get even more hate from the everyone we know the underlining issues but if we don’t adjust or fix them there might be not a next episode because it would be waste of funding

[warm wharf]

Severely underrated comment.

[naive summit]

Not a underrated comment half of the time you were doing puzzles u don’t even get to see the graphics and also graphics don’t matter there’ is games that don’t even have good graphics and are the one of the best games

[patent escarp]

I like graphics and puzzles, it’s not an argument all I’m saying is I prefer subliminal by a lot.

[naive summit]

What I’m trying to say is that let say for example in the resident evil games u have to search for key and stuff like fuses to power things to unlock new locations but the different is u get something out of it like more better weapons and heal items and more story about what going on in subliminal all u get is more puzzle to do one after the other and chasing scenes that it that why in human nature we always like to get rewarded after doing hard tasks or what the point of doing it in the first place

[patent escarp]

Subliminal isn’t that type of game that’s all it’s a mascot horror (sort of) it focuses on one main story, like poppy playtime.

Although I do love resident evil too.

[naive summit]

For the game you’re actually getting story unlocked as you play more so I guess that is something but it’s not much that is why there people that really don’t like the game and actually hate what it did to mascot horror

[visual iron]

I will note that, for clarity, Subliminal is not a mascot horror game. Similar to what @naive summit mentioned,
EP1 didn't portray the ROT to the players in the way we hoped it would (Some aspects of it did, but other areas were lacking),
hence the v1.1 update designed to reinforce certain elements of the story that were either missed or were not conveyed well enough on our end,
as well as to have a bit better parity with where the story will be heading in Episode Two.

As an example, Smile's redesign from the Demo to the Full episode release was part of those efforts, since it too initially didn't have the results we were hoping for initially when the Demo first came out,
if anything Smile v1 was more often then not seen as goofy/mascot-esque, which the v2 design was meant to steer away from and better portray what the ROT pertains to. This in-turn however,
also caused another entity we had planned to appear in Episode One, to take a backseat until a later time for the story we're wanting to tell. (You only see this entity once in the current EP1, and only part of it)

I'm hoping I'm explaining this clearly, it's a bit tricky to phrase while avoiding spoilers relating to Episode Two and v1.1 😂

[naive summit]

should have made smile pink it would have been so much better

[patent escarp]

Yeah lol I understand it’s not mascot horror I just couldn’t think

It’s great no matter what it is

[patent escarp]

That, my friend, Is called bald smile.

[warm wharf]

HA!

I was right! It's NOT a Mascot Horror game, finally!

People really need to stop giving a lot of horror games the title of "Mascot Horror" when there's an iconic monster.

[patent escarp]

True I just didn’t know what else to say 😆

Oh I just woke up and thought it was morning, ok Gn in the uk.

[visual iron]

For Subliminal's case, and in a personal opinion, I think part of it stems from a lot of the player's time being spent in the Playplace,
as well as experiencing Smile in both it's rot form, and the version that you see on posters/rule postings in the Playplace itself,
in addition to the in-game plushie and toy smile collectable.

The important thing to remember is we're not done with the story we're telling,
and a number of elements in EP1 (That were either told from the Conscience or shown through the foreground/background elements) will make a lot more sense in Episode Two where it's taking place,
and in some cases will feel more fleshed out even sooner then that, with v1.1s release too 😄

Another root of the mascot horror label did also come from Smile v1.0,
Which was a version of original smile with dynamic pupils, which was revealed more then a year ago on patreon initially.

v1.1 of Smile's design (During the demo, prior to release) ended up removing this feature,
since despite positive reactions from most (Patreon in addition to our debug and playtesting teams), bringing it to a wider audience with the steam demo yielded issues that didn't give the intended reaction,
and you can still see remnants of that from thumbnails online that still use it. v1.1 of the design was mostly a stopgap though, since v2 (What we released with) was already in progress at that time,
but was something we wanted to keep a surprise until the full episode launch.

[warm wharf]

I respect and agree with the opinion, CDA!

[naive summit]

so we’re actually making smile pink I’m gonna buy it just because of that

[cedar mulch]

Now that you mention it, I just remembered that there seemed to be a red-bodied Smile in the game promo before. Is that the one you're looking for? 🤔

[visual iron]

^^ This was a material bug from back then.

[cedar mulch]

I thought this was a different form of Smile. When I saw it, I thought there were multiple forms of Smile.😯

[visual iron]

There are: V1 and V2 is how I phrase it 😄
This was V2s finished model, but with incorrect materials being used; a side-effect from the transition off of V1 that was later fixed.

[cedar mulch]

Honestly, I feel like the V1 and V2 versions of Smile could be modified into different - stage forms to appear in the game. The V1 form can be Smile's initial form. When Calbe encounters the dark or gloomy side of memories, let Smile appear in the V1 form. When Calbe's subconscious gets more and more corrupted, let Smile appear in the V2 form to show the degree of subconscious pollution. Mainly, I think the pupil - contraction effect of the eyes and the oppressive feeling of the churning mouth and tongue in the V1 version of Smile are done really well. It's a pity to just abandon it.

Even though his version 1 might make people think it's a mascot horror game. 🥲

[visual iron]

I can at least confirm for certain, even in the hypothetical scenario that V1 were to return, the pupils were already permanently removed long ago during the Demo's lifecycle.
They were something originally entertained on patreon, but did not give the intended reaction for the majority of our audience once the scale increased for the Demo's release,
whereas the original pupiless version (Seen in much older marketing) did give much better results with what we were intending to portray, with V2 being the successor to that 😄

[cedar mulch]

You mean the early version where its eyes were pure white without pupils?

[visual iron]

Correct; fragments of the pupil design were kept (mainly the eye veins), but the pupils themselves were removed,
since it simply didn't pan out in the way we originally hoped for it.

Beyond that, V1 Smile had remained relatively unchanged from back then, besides minor material/model improvements,
and any side effects from engine updates (As our oldest builds were from UE5.0/5.1; we are on UE5.7 currently)

[cedar mulch]

Alright, I just think the form of version 1, even though it's not as intimidating as version 2, gives people more of a feeling of the uncanny valley effect.😔

[naive summit]

I’m talking about smile on the poster that say join us at the playplace

[warm wharf]

Oh god, I looked at it, it made me think: Smile in a red jumpsuit.