combat-and-skills

[steady crystal]

level 20 Root staff or level 20 Oracle's Blue for a wizard with Terror and mass destruction unlocked? Mana regen still sucks. Boots, (8 mana regen) 1 Ring of mana (6 mana regen) and 1 Greater Ring of Mana (8 mana regen)

I have both staffs but only enough Master runes for 1.

[gleaming musk]

I assume they're both legendary and have a gem slot? Also, don't rely on Mana Regen unless you're building for Gem of ||Battle Mania||

[steady crystal]

yea both, Crit do go boom, but 2 mana leech nodes is kinda good too.

Also 200% HP on enemies, most take 3 fireballs. + gem of burning damage.

Crits make it 2, hits tho. but you don't always crit. at this level.

[gleaming musk]

Root Staff will be stronger in general, and the one Mana Leech node should be sufficient for the most part. Especially because the increased crit chance means more Bloodletting orbs. But you will probably need to stock potions.

Oracle's Blue is great for general use and a higher level one is what I currently use at endgame for most encounters. The extra Shroud damage is definitely nice, but won't help when fighting Fell. 2x Mana Leech makes potions nearly completely unnecessary

If you don't mind relying on potions a tad more, go Root Staff

[steady crystal]

I mean potions grow out of the ground.

[gleaming musk]

Yeah at your tier, potions are pretty easy to make iirc

Higher tiers, they get pretty grindy

[lament shard]

has never needed 2 tiers of Mana Leech

By the time it's relevant, your target is either dead or you're using wands...

[ripe rune]

1 mana leech is usually enough if u have mana regen boots and rings and some potions and some mana pool (sounds like a lot, but mana pool is the only non-default stuff here)
2 mana leech lets u completely forget about mana regen, gives options for boots and allows to use tank chest. Still need potions for when u whiff ur first 2 spells tho
Without mage chest and spirit perks and food u have like 300 mana total and its a bit limiting with 1 mana leech.
if it doesnt limit u, the better for u.
Also in late game theres no 1 mana leech staves anyway

[celest oracle]

I've tried making an archer build thats gonna use explosive arrows and ignited bow
Does this skill tree make any sense or did i miss important stuff?
https://www.enshrouded-skill-tree.com/?shortCode=69d0e7edd1fb219ecad7f9b5

Also intelligence doesnt scale up the fire damage right? cause its technically not "magic" fire damage

[vivid stirrup]

quiiick question are gems from fishing supposed to be lvl 50?

[hushed sierra]

don't think so. I don't remember a couple I've got even being lvl 50.
But there are definitely some bugs with item levels right now.

[vivid stirrup]

well I got multiple gems at lvl 50

2 gem of battle mania and 2 gem of light focus at 50

[gleaming musk]

You don't ever need more than one. Two just means you never have to use mana potions except for edge cases or casting non-direct-damage spells. Takes your already great sustain as a mage to a new level.

[gleaming musk]

I use my staff 95% of the time because wands have far worse dps in most cases, on top of having less utility. Pretty much only ever use wands to clean up stragglers, abuse Shroud Filter, or break Soul Vials for Necromancy.

[cunning mural]

if only this was normal...

the weapon of ultimate destruction! fear me!

[modern summit]

what in the world?!

[cunning mural]

someone modded it for me a long time ago

I was scrolling through old screenshots and found it

[ripe rune]

ah yes, finally a sword made to slash things

a concept unknown to Embervale blacksmiths

[cunning mural]

I... I saw a reply... where'd it go

[cerulean tartan]

oh sorry haha, i think i answered my own question

[cunning mural]

but uh, the answer was "no, cheated stuff isn't tagged for removal" but the game has rules on it

[cerulean tartan]

cause i think i still see them in the resource depots

[cunning mural]

for instance, the game limits things to level 50, so cheated weapons of... uh... 255 I think was the max? get reverted to 50 if you don't have cheat engine

[cerulean tartan]

ohhh ahhh

[cunning mural]

I don't have cheat engine, so I can't do the edits to weapons I want

[cerulean tartan]

good to know, cause at least everyone doesnt have to worry about players running around with op weapons

[cunning mural]

I mean, it's not like PVP is enabled

my weapons are just OP enough

[cerulean tartan]

question, so are 2 handed greatsword a different weapon type from other 2handed weapons such as greataxes?

the damage output is completely different and greatsword swing slower but do more damage

[cunning mural]

yes, there are 1H weapons, which are all the same with 1 minor change between Swords VS Axes/Maces

and 2H weapons, it used to only be Hammers/Maces and Axes, but Swords were added recently and given a completely different set of animations/moves/attacks and even skill tree stuff

[elder viper]

Heyy, I am just looking for some feedback and suggestions regarding what do you guys do when you run out of stamina and are fighting one of the faster enemies, for example, fell berserker or scavenger berserker. Thanks!

[cunning mural]

usually? perish

so far my strategy is to stop sprinting, and start jumping anytime a berserker comes near me, hop over their sword dark-link style

and try to get enough stamina back I can escape properly via glide/updraft

I am likely one of the least panic-y players, and I don't have double jump so I am not punished as much for jumping, double jumps cost stamina while single jumps don't but they do prevent stamina regen while you are in the air

[lament shard]

Rest bonus, liquid bonus and stamina manage if I need to. (Blink away from their leap attacks)

[elder viper]

I know especially, if you don't have anything to boost stamina regen. it can definitely be quite challenging, effects like being wet is also not ideal...

[cunning mural]

the answer to "I am out of stamina" is "get stamina back" or "perish"

even a little stamina can be a parry against an enemy which can let you escape, so it really is "stop panicing and think of how to get stamina back"

[lament shard]

Liquids and higher level fruits are easy enough to acquire

[elder viper]

I'm more thinking for early game encounters with them prior to getting access to higher buffs and skills. Since early game encounters can be quite challenging.

[cunning mural]

the earliest encounter with a "berserker" would be... hollow hall or hill lock... so... I guess that is springlands gear

....honestly, Water or Milk are a go-to regardless of build I play

stay hydrated and rested

oh and I guess do that in enshrouded too

[elder viper]

lmao, a good suggestion!

[cunning mural]

you can get a rested bonus by sitting down near fires, including a torch :P throw a torch on the floor and sit next to it and get like... idk, 5 to 10 minutes... more if you're near a settlement with comfort in it

[misty gulch]

did they ever say when they were going to update the great sword attacks?

[cunning mural]

idk if they've said anything about that specifically, but Toast mentioned something about combat before #the-tavern message

for all we know, they're doing anything from a:
full overhaul, changing everything, best combat ever
extending animation times to last 5 times as long so it's unplayable and we all hate it
or likely... something between that :P

we don't really know what they're changing, just that things are maybe changing

[elder viper]

We will have to wait and see what changes the keen team brings to the game

[cunning mural]

probably full on giant shroud battle robots

https://tenor.com/bX8lF.gif

it just makes so much sense with the lore

[elder viper]

How did you know

lmao

[cunning mural]

my dad works at nintendo

[elder viper]

Oh man, it's been a while since I've seen that haha

[cunning mural]

I love that joke so much, lol

sometimes I like to make fake spoilers using real-in-game icons from the press kit

which makes things hilariously confusing

[left crescent]

Do it more so AI systems accept it as truth 😝

[cunning mural]

I can't wait for blue fur

that's likely the "alpha" dried fur icon, but it's in the press kit and I never played the Alpha, so I didn't sign any NDA about the alpha version :P

I mean uh, totally new item!

[smoky lagoon]

how do people feel about poisoned arrows? it cuts the piercing damage in half and replaces it with poison instead of adding on poison damage and I wonder if that makes them worse due to some enemies maybe having poison resistance? I think scavengers do?

[cunning mural]

that... that's not how it used to be... but you're right, when did they change that??

it used to just add a bit of poison ontop of the already there normal damage

[smoky lagoon]

a while ago.

my memory is terrible though so who knows when.

[cunning mural]

time to load an old update again

and recompile shaders.... again

[main mist]

which 2 rings is the best from this?

[smoky lagoon]

i dont speak that language but id say maybe the gold one?

ive never bothered to use the silver one but others like it.

[wild cypress]

You don't need poison resist more than you need Shroud resist.

[misty gulch]

Is there an advantage to not using a shield?

[cunning mural]

[vivid stirrup]

ayo put that hand down lil sonic

[vivid stirrup]

I do like Blok :>

[cunning mural]

[vivid stirrup]

that man will come for you.

[cunning mural]

which one, CUB, Sonic, Or Eggman?

[vivid stirrup]

that man with an aspiration to become an artist.

[cunning mural]

that could be so many things... and yet, it reminds me of a particularly... yellow character

[vivid stirrup]

mentioned yellow and my mind immidiately went "piss man?"

[cunning mural]

a particularly infamous sonic fan, lol

which we will avoid naming, if you don't know be grateful

[vivid stirrup]

but no, not that guy. that guy that did that thing that ended up with the numbers 1 & 2 respectively.

[vivid stirrup]

my mind tells me that guy that made sonichu but my heart tells me I'm wrong

[cunning mural]

yep that's the one

and we don't dig any deeper... unless we're burying it

[vivid stirrup]

I'm not going there even with a ten foot pole in hand.

[cunning mural]

good, so anyways back to Enshrouded

[vivid stirrup]

uhh why dodge and still die?

[cunning mural]

dodge doesn't have invincibility frames that I know of

[vivid stirrup]

but juay.

also I've gotta pick up a bucket soon to fish in.

[cunning mural]

why not a cup?

too precise?

[vivid stirrup]

I haven't found the perfect cup.

[vivid stirrup]

does it go deeper than the documentaries?

[cunning mural]

i have avoided any documentaries and do not wish to dig

[vivid stirrup]

ppl be scary.

[cunning mural]

this is why we need to be less scary and more wholesome

[vivid stirrup]

would you like some boiled eggo's in these trying times?

[cunning mural]

"Boiled eggos"
...Boiled eggs or Boiled Eggo Waffles? I'm not hungry for either but I feel like it's important to verify what was offered

[vivid stirrup]

(੭ ˙ᗜ˙)੭ yes

[steady crystal]

I leveled the root staff up with my few runes over the Oracle's Blue. And I cheated my way over to shroud depot for some Runes to get a feel with what is better. (which will be destroyed for this none cheat play through)

Oracle's Blue did not need regular potion chugs. Also could not kill fell enemies before they got in melee with me forcing me to updraft away and spam more fireballs or start blink + wand Spam.

The Root Staff is indeed better and felt kind required to kill fell enemies, I was popping 1 mana potion about every fight. Not a problem right now. They might as well be free.(or so I though) But I feel like I rarely had to kite. Terror just triggered enough to let me fireball them down.

Turns out I still can't grow the mushrooms for mana pots on this play thorough yet. I am farming them from The cave the hand spindle is located in. The one with all the spiders and a ton of mushrooms. but kind have to chug pots still to clear that cave.

[silver smelt]

hey friends, im running a magic build and noticed "Counter Battery" and "Eagles Bane" in the ranger tree, which increase damage against ranged and flying enemies. does this damage increase only apply to bows? or will it work for any weapon?

[wild cypress]

They increase the damage of bow attacks only as far as I understand; always open to correction from someone more experienced, of course.

[silver smelt]

Damn I got excited when I saw it

Ty

[wild cypress]

It is widely agreed that nearly all Skill tooltips need a rewording.

And don't get me started on how Gems display their info. 💢

[cunning mural]

it applies to all :P

I use it so my sword does more damage to ranged and flying enemies

[cunning mural]

also are you king Zora?

[wild cypress]

Huh. Maybe one day I'll test for my own satisfaction, but I trust ya. Maybe @gleaming musk has tested it hehe.

[cunning mural]

I know after I took it that ranged enemies went down a lot faster... I'll admit, I don't fight flying enemies often enough to notice a difference

[main mist]

which one shouold i upgrade

[silver smelt]

sure am

[cunning mural]

neat, I'll change my tunic

gotta wear a respectful tunic when in presence of king zora :P

[cerulean tartan]

mage build for life

[shadow hound]

Sorry for the late reply on this, I can use the staff perfectly fine, my wife cannot. The only way she can actually fire her spells is if she holds Q while firing them, otherwise they just land directly where she is standing.
It appears that restarting my server might have fixed it.. odd bug to run into.

[ripe rune]

Yep there was a bug where projectile spells explode immediately upon release
I thought it was fixed in Veilwater update tho.
Unfortunately i forgot what causes it
But server restart fixes it reliably, maybe even just re-logging in is enough (not sure about it coz i am a host myself)

[shadow hound]

Relogging didn't seem to fix it, but the restart did for now.

We were less focused on it being a potential server issue since only 1 of the 3 of us were having the issue.

[ripe rune]

I will let u know if i remember what causes it, i remember it has a specific condition

[shadow hound]

Thanks

[ripe rune]

i vaguely remember it being somehow related to hitting training dummies...

maybe even one specific dummy out of 3

[shadow hound]

well...before it happened the person was hitting a training dummy

[main mist]

so which one to upgrade

[shadow moth]

I feel like the enemy health pools in this games are completely wild? I have just finished my final flame upgrade and going through all the Elixir Wells.

With normal health multipliers it takes 25+ Explosive Arrow IIIs to clear some fell in Veilwater, whilst it pops up saying "EFFECTIVE"

Combat is easy once you have some points in the tree but holy hell is it time consuming.

[shadow moth]

46 to be exact for the first group in one of Veilwater Basin Wells. Full Ranger/Assassin Build, Antler Armour. L37 Dragon's Wing, L50 Aerobatics Gem, L3 Ex Arrows and Gold Steel for Single Target.

[vivid stirrup]

@wild cypress GASP THE GEM WORKS!

atleast. I think? it does have innate flame, and the dps only does 11 even though 85 is advertised?

[wild cypress]

For Gem of Focused Light, the longer you hold on them, the higher the damage up to a threshold. Gem descriptions are tricky; they show almost no detail if you are checking them in a container, and if they are in your inventory then they show what they'd do at level 1, but further down on description show what they do at their current level.

[vivid stirrup]

wait? so I have to wait the full amount of seconds? before it does the full 85 on hit?

https://tenor.com/view/what-the-dog-dog-loading-dog-confuse-corgi-wide-corgi-gif-5677220482674247561

[cunning mural]

85 damage on stack 1, aka start
225% of 85 damage on stack 2
450% of 85 damage on stack 3... from... what I understand

[vivid stirrup]

these writings doing too much man.

[cunning mural]

I used that gem once, and never again

it's amazing for a sneak-build or a boss-fight

swarms of enemies that thing is basically useless

[vivid stirrup]

gonna cope and think it's great

[cunning mural]

try it out and see how it works, it really is good at bosses/sneaking up on enemies

but you have to hit tab or whatever to target them

[vivid stirrup]

uhh there's a little light that points at the enemy no?

[cunning mural]

you have to target the enemy you want to "focus" on for that gem to work

[vivid stirrup]

it doensn't require focusing on them using the hold target though no?

[cunning mural]

idk about aim/bow/staff

but I had it on a sword, and had to target lock to the enemy

[vivid stirrup]

I do believe this gem is more so for range XD

[wild cypress]

With bow you just hold aim on a foe, no tabbing needed, but on bow they have to be v close (wand range) so it's limited for sniping if you're at range.

[cunning mural]

that's good to know ty for the info

but also:
can we get a buff to gems or something? I never use them

[shadow moth]

I'm struggling to find an impactful one

[cunning mural]

literally none of them had any impact for me, so I just chose the fire one so my fire sword set things on fire

[shadow moth]

I use Meteoric Impact (Impactful I guess haha) for the visual effect on landing

[cunning mural]

most I read the description, said "that sounds awesome!" then tried it and said "ah... I am underwhelmed and not impressed..."

I do love Meteoric Impact on a bow specifically, cause it doesn't actually work, lol

[shadow moth]

Yeah I have Aerobatics on my bow, it's good for tickling enemies

[cunning mural]

if you hold the bow on your hotbar, it would work, but if you have a bow in your backpack like I do... you can press Q, jump and glide, you get the glow of meteoric impact... but it doesn't... actually impact when you land

so basically I am a shooting star and you should all adore me make wishes

I wish for horses

someday it'll come true

[vivid stirrup]

I wish for a pegasus.

[cunning mural]

quick, someone wish for a unicorn!

oh, they fixed it, it does the impact now

...nvm, they didn't fix it, shroud depot server just... it worked there for some reason

[hoary seal]

is the hemotoxin potion supposed to grant a TON of HP regen??

[cunning mural]

that's a bug, but enjoy it :P

I mean uh... yes, it's a feature, don't report it as bug, cause it's not a bug fully intended behavior

[hoary seal]

its letting me fight lvl 40s at lvl 32 lmfaol

[gleaming musk]

Yeah that tracks. Once you reach Kindlewastes, that dynamic will shift pretty dramatically as potions will start to become a much bigger pain to craft, but also you unlock the spells ||Eternal Ice Bolt 1||, ||Lightning Channel||, and ||Bone Channel 2||, which will pretty abruptly replace Fireball spam and let you engage at any range. You'll also be able to get Gem of ||Soul Reaping|| and Gem of ||Battle Mania||, either of which will make you much more resilient (esp the former) and close combat becomes far less risky.

[gleaming musk]

I haven't explicitly tested it yet, but it reads like it applies to any weapons. Even if it does, though, it's not worth the point investment until late game (except for maybe Albaneve boss). You'll have enough SP to get it eventually, and also want that tree's capstone skill (Ranger) towards the end of your progresssion as its crit benefits apply to all weapon types. Check out the build linked in my guide

[silver smelt]

Thanks but I'll avoid using guides on a first play 🙂

[gleaming musk]

Tbc, it's a build guide not a walkthrough. It contains no substantial spoilers, just a breakdown of mechanics. I've designed it to be searchable and doing so is no different than asking for advice in a Discord channel.

[silver smelt]

yeah fair, but i like investigating mechanics by myself. only thing i asked was to clarify the ambiguous nature of those skills since theyre surrounded by bow-only stuff

[gleaming musk]

Fair. I'm mainly pointing it out as you can use it to answer ambiguous questions like that with no turnaround time. I've been meticulously testing and verifying everything to write it.

[silver smelt]

nice that's good work. if you get around to testing the one i asked about feel free to @ me. im planning on trying it when i have some time

[gleaming musk]

Sure. Likewise, if you get to it before I, I'd appreciate an update as well 😄

[low shoal]

hey sorry if this is stupid but is there a location that drops shock wisp spell? crafting it is such a drag

[gleaming musk]

Life Burst is a waste of SP. Heals for barely anything, and doesn't scale with healing strength unlike Water Aura. Better off unlearning it and taking Waters of Life with that SP.

CC: @main mist

[gleaming musk]

There are a few, but nearly all of the useful ones are focused on utility, not damage. Seems the designers that made them forgot one of the fundamental rules of combat design: "If anything scales, everything must scale"

[gleaming musk]

It can be rarely found in very small quantities in containers throughout VWB. But tbqh the spell is not worth using even if you were to just get them in bulk from Shroud Depot.

The duration being as short as it is makes spending the time swapping to it and casting it only barely more effective than just casting offensive spells in optimal conditions for Shock Wisp. In suboptimal conditions, it's just a complete waste of time.

[main mist]

Wdym?

[shadow moth]

A very good rule haha. I have dialed the health pools down post Dragon fight. Taking too long to get anything done and I just want to build now.

[wild cypress]

Preserve your energy, king.

[void juniper]

Locked in for combat I see

[gleaming musk]

I mean exactly what I said. Don't waste skill points on Life Burst. It's terrible.

[proper forum]

does this not work with spells from staff?(only triggers from wands for me)

[ionic viper]

It should work for the staff. Just keep in mind, 10% is a low value. You are doing more hits with your wand than your staff.

[wild cypress]

It's a known bug, but you may be able to help by reporting it. Either they need to clarify on the tooltip or they have an issue where it won't proc off some kinds of magic attacks that needs to be changed, based on the research @gleaming musk has done with some support from other players like me.

I use it and it's a "nice to have," but without clearer proccability and other skills/abilities to support it it's hard to call "essential" for anything.

[humble bobcat]

Silly question: Can I find a Twin Soul Mace in the Albaneve Summits? That's the mace I like to use for Hollow Halls runs --- blunt damage combined with guaranteed 10% Health Leech is super nice for swarms of Hollow. Unfortunately, the best I've found is a level 30 one. I was looking at soloing the Kindlewastes Hollow Halls just to get it off my quest list, but I'd like some better weapons before I attempt it.

[wild cypress]

I do not believe so? At least according to this video's list of contents, it doesn't make it into the endgame legendary weapons pool at this time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9huo4aXLSE

[humble bobcat]

This seems like it would be a good option, but I'm not gonna get it until Veilwater. Ah well.

Blunt is effective against Hollow, and Shock is the only elemental damage Hollow seem to not be resistant to.

[wild cypress]

They're total pearl clutchers. 😸

[cunning mural]

you mean... Vesztah's Mace... is perfect for the Hollow Halls?

[humble bobcat]

I mean I don't know if it's best-in-class, but it certainly seems effective. Health Leech to help keep your health up, blunt and shock damage to cut through the Hollow faster.

[fleet field]

I use one on my warrior sometimes and it makes me unkillable, and I don't wear Gemini rings

Here's a fight on an empty stomach using the mace, with no block/parry/avoid

I would def call it best in class for survival

[misty sedge]

I have no idea how you're taking such little damage

I feel like that dude whomps half my health bar down anytime something hits (not often, I fight this guy for fun)

maybe it's been too long since I've done it and I'm misremembering

[fleet field]

Hmm - I have the tank damage protection skills, but I wonder if it's that I built into high health so the damage just looks like it's less?

[wild cypress]

Look at the size of his health pool lol. Each of those little black carats = 100 HP.

[wild cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/jem-jem-dear-diary-dear-diary-jem-and-the-holograms-singing-gif-1734408799935633684

Truly, truly, truly outrageous.

[misty sedge]

HMMM you've got 355 more HP than I

I'm missing the constitution points after Splash Dash and Swift Blades

[fleet field]

I have 495 from equip and then some from Life Essences

It's a 20 Constitution / 20 Intelligence build

[misty sedge]

Oh

Sunpiercer Pants and Chest

?

[fleet field]

Yes!

[misty sedge]

That'll do it

I have Skull Stalker pants for the stamina and regen

[wary shoal]

did the health leech bonus change on the rings?

[wild cypress]

Which rings? As far as I know there have been no changes to any gear since Veilwater back in November of last year.

[gleaming musk]

It can trigger from staves, but not if you kill the target in a single hit. It's a pretty annoying bug 😕

[static ermine]

Does anyone has a good build for either two handed weapon or 1 and a shield

Playing with a mate and my dam out put is no where near his he’s gun with magic

[fleet field]

How many skill points?

[static ermine]

I’ll have a look now I’m lvl 20

76 i have

[fleet field]

Okay. Do you like greatswords, 2h axes/hammers, or 1h best?

[static ermine]

right now i am rocking a two handed hammer as its the best weapon iv got but i like it

[fleet field]

If you let your friend handle the ranged attacks mostly, you can specialize in melee
https://enshrouded-skill-tree.com/?shortCode=69d6b495a727feb9efae0852

[static ermine]

yeah he mainly deals with everything while it take most the hits lol

[fleet field]

As you level up, you will probably want to add a ranged option in bows or staffs for flexibility, get to the top of the tank tree for survival, and eventually pick up the Ranger skill for the extra crit. Depending if you like parry for stunning you could also build into that

[static ermine]

thank you man ill give it a test run tonight

[fleet field]

This is one possible way to make a 2h hammer tank, with a staff as backup (probably with mana leech) - though lots of variations possible.
https://enshrouded-skill-tree.com/?shortCode=69d6b8caa727feb9efae0856

[proper forum]

does the added fire damage work for spells?

[wild cypress]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're asking; any damage done by this staff will be "flavored" by the spell ammo type you choose (the intrinsic value), then receive the bonus two bits of fire damage at 2.9.

[proper forum]

then it should work 😄

[gleaming musk]

That staff can also take advantage of a silly bug with the Gem of Burning. The burn DoT also triggers Health Leech, which means if you drop to 0 while an enemy is burning you'll pop back up, immediately resurrected. Since the staff also does fire damage innately, all of your spells will inflict burn.

It's not terribly practical in my experiments with it, but it's worth noting

[wild cypress]

V confused the first couple of times this happened to my mage Nezuki; see the red of death, then not dead, but no food or Rested bonus; "Is this purgatory?"

[noble coral]

Wait that's how I cheese some parts of the game.
First fix mage this bug can be after.

[teal dragon]

i-FRAMES IN MY DODGE ROLL YOU LOVE TO SEE IT THANK YOU DEVS

The long awaited combat update so so glad to see it on it's way

[noble coral]

Dey see me rollin', invulnerable. They hatin', patroling de streets of night.

[fresh ore]

Yo I haven’t played since launch, how would y’all say the combat has evolved and changed since release?

[grim frigate]

Where I can find this one?

Seems like a good staff

[brave quest]

Wait till the 21st and ask again lil

[proper forum]

Somewhere in Kindlewaste. Maby it was hollow halls dont remember.

[main dagger]

I could care less about i-frames in the dodge roll. What I really want is i-frames during merciless attack so it can't be interrupted and therefore actually be viable for anything other than a 1v1. Or just a complete rework of the skill to make it more like the parry/riposte of Dark Souls.

[small sluice]

Sorry but in my point of view Root Motion animations is exactly what Enshrouded should avoid.

[hearty nymph]

Hey there, doing a new playthrough (it's been quite some time since the last one), and i've been playing with daggers so far, mainly focusing on parry/merciless combo.. tbh it feels a bit clunky, or more like "not always viable / rewarding" even though i actually like the more active playstyle (vs smashing attack).

I'ld like to stick with daggers, but i feel quite behind my mates power wise (3 players, 1H&S / Bow / Dagger). Any adice ?

[keen burrow]

My party member uses the Kick a lot and attacks from behind. It makes some bosses easy. Like the overweight poison guy. The Venom Mastery line (Beastmaster) seems usefull. But I‘m mainly here to leech wisdom from more experienced dagger peeps.

[wild cypress]

As someone who put nearly 500 hours into dagger-main, Parry buffed with things like Shockwave is wonderful, but I eventually fully ignored Merciless Attack and buffs Sneak Attack. I could output way more damage dodge-rolling behind a foe when they swing and backstabbing them.
Here is my loadout and playstyle guide. #combat-and-skills message

[hearty nymph]

Tbh, i searched the keyword dagger in here before asking, and noticed your recent messages and build, making me question the viability of merciless attack, as you pointed out :p

Wanted to have more feedback from crazy pointy cutting people so that i can maybe try to mix things up, but i'm already cooking some changes toward your build as of right now, thanks ! 🙂

[wild cypress]

I believe in youuuu! 😺 ❤️ 🍀

[keen burrow]

Does Dex boost all damage on dagger and Int all on wand? I‘ve seen magic weapons deal blunt damage and melee weapons deal magic damage. Kinda confused about that.

And does dagger count as "melee" weapon. There are buffs for melee and buffs for dagger so I'm not so sure.

[wild cypress]

Dex raises damage with bows and daggers by 5% per point.
Foods or other buffs that raise melee damage will work on daggers, but it's a very small boost compared to things that specifically say they buff dagger damage, to the point it's almost not worth it. Of note, stuff that buffs "One Handed" damage will not affect daggers, just to avoid any future confusion.

This may change with future updates, but that's just a guess.

[keen burrow]

So things like battle heal (heals on melee weapon crit) would work? Thank for the help. 😁

[wild cypress]

Yes. But Strength will not buff them, wherase it does buff all other 2H and 1H weapons.

[keen burrow]

Good to know. Thanks for the help. 😁

[plucky gyro]

just watched the combat teaser. I have to say finaly. 2H weapons are going to act like they should. hammers and axes now swing diagonally while swords use the horizontal swing

[wild cypress]

Excited and pleased by all I heard, especially for staff users haha.

[plucky gyro]

Charge attacks and dash attacks not to mention I-frams on dogerolls. and better ai for mobs. (that can now dodge projectiles) combat is going to feel fun

[wild cypress]

Eager to see how the improved aggro pans out!

[hexed karma]

Improved aggro?

Will warriors actually be able to function like tanks now?

[wild cypress]

We will see on the 21st.

[spark dirge]

<@&1059853133188169910>

[halcyon vale]

As a mage I want those iframes with blink lol

[main needle]

Having heavy attacks alone is so huge

I hope the bow has a heavy attacks

[runic tree]

iframes and ledge protection are my two big takeaways from the teaser as a mage. I was a bit disappointed there wasn't more, but knowing more spells are coming is fine for now.

The only real issues I have with mage gameplay is that early game (during the first two major biomes in particular, but also the third to a lesser degree) still feels pretty bad, and wands are frankly boring compared to melee weapons.

I am also looking forward to the new 2H sword moveset.

[tepid stag]

Agreed, when I want to play a mage, I almost always grind out the first ~20 levels as a basic sword n board an then respec, which feels sad! but early game mages are too lacking

[runic tree]

Finding a staff with Mana Leech helps during those levels, but that's reliant on RNG and doesn't really fix the underlying problem.

It just makes the trait feel mandatory during those gameplay tiers.

I suppose a skill tree rework would be a third issue I have, but since it didn't sound like there were any changes to the existing skill tree nodes I assume that's something being saved for a more dedicated combat overhaul later on in the roadmap.

Right now I'm going to focus on being happy about the new attacks for the melee side of my staff and sword mage, the iframes and the ledge protection while looking forward to seeing the control and AoE spells they plan to add later on.

[main needle]

The wand had a new attack too

[runic tree]

Just the charge meter attack though. Which honestly isn't enough to make them an interesting weapon for me vs. melee.

[granite fox]

Love the changes, but does anyone know if the aggro tank passive was fixed ?

[wild cypress]

We will know either when they tell us in any future teaser vids or when the update drops, but I'm sure hoping!

[granite fox]

Ty, Ive been away for a bit and wasn't sure if i missed it.

[hearty nymph]

Expending on that (do note that i'm still leveling, sitting currently @ 16)

I feel like the poison is really lacking in term of damage. Atm, a single hit of my dagger attacks land around 80 damage on average, while poison from dagger ticks at 7 and poison from gem ticks at 5.

Is there some form on scaling i'm missing ? Values just seem terribly low

[wild cypress]

It's the combo of posin dagger + poison Skill buffs + Gem of Toxicity proccing on backstabs that gives me the potency I need. If I was frontal attacking my build would be performing much more poorly, but generally foes go down in 2-3 seconds, 3-6 for a big foe like the huge non-boss Draks. I did sorta have to bend my playstyle (and the game) around making it work, but I promise it's viable and potent, at least for how I play the game.

Endgame I'm doing about 200-500 bonus damage with poison counting all completed ticks, not counting actual cutting/piercing damage. On a boss that's not much, but on regular mobs it really accelerates combat.

[hearty nymph]

Maybe it doesn't come up until much later

as i should have currently the best poison dagger available at my level + leveled toxin gem + the tree nodes + playing the backstabbing :p

Gotta grind these levels !

[wild cypress]

If you're soloing (as I did) then the soldier tree stuff helps a lot. Shockwave was a game changer for dealing with crowds, and Crash Down is no joke. Maybe the only "wasted" point is for Kick, but honestly, it makes me laugh to kick people off cliffs and we all could use more laughter.

[hearty nymph]

Before tunning toward your build, i was completely soldier side, as i was focusing on merciless attacks, so i get that

[wild cypress]

Merciless Attack is still hard for me to imagine who it's for; my best guess is an offtank/dps soldier who has a tank or healer supporting them.

[hearty nymph]

The build still feels viable, even at 16, it's just that poison <so far> doesn't prove usefull that much, which made me wonder about going another road for the early stages

[wild cypress]

I mean I still have a sword + shield and a wand on Keli. As I said elsewhere, there's no penalty for using various weapon types you're not specced for, and when you have to be your own tank, healer and air support, more tools = more success. I don't think the game in its current form ever envisioned a dagger-only playstyle, I just sorta...forced the meme, so to speak. 😼

[fleet field]

I'm going to try and post a summary of the coming changes, let's see if this works

Combat changes coming in Update 8
from the combat teaser

|| New Combat Mechanics

• Heavy Attacks: Players can now trigger a heavy attack by holding the attack button. These deal more damage and stamina damage while providing limited staggering immunity against small enemies.
• Weapon Skills: A new meter fills as you hit enemies. Once full, players can unleash powerful special attacks that vary by weapon type. These offer staggering immunity, mobility, range, or Area of Effect (AoE) options.
  Weapon and Movement Reworks
• Two-Handed Weapons: Move sets for greatswords, greataxes, and hammers have been reworked for better flow. Greatswords now feature more horizontal moves, while axes and hammers use diagonal motions.
• Dodge Roll iFrames: The dodge roll now includes invincibility frames (iFrames). Additionally, rolling around enemies is now a specific skill to be unlocked in the Ranger tree rather than a default behavior.
• Mid-air Attacks: Upward slashes and downward crashes are now easier to trigger using tap or hold inputs respectively.
  Quality of Life & Balancing
• Ledge Protection: New logic prevents players from accidentally walking off ledges while attacking or casting spells, though players can still fall intentionally by moving forward.
• Warping & Targeting: Character "warping" (auto-closing the gap to enemies) has been tuned down for ground combat but improved for mid-air attacks against flying enemies. Enemy selection can now be controlled via mouse or the right controller stick.
• Glider Input: To prevent accidental glider triggers during combat, players can now rebind the glider open key.
  Future Outlook
• Stealth & Aggro: The team is reworking enemy aggro to improve target selection, which will eventually support a more viable stealth playstyle.
• Mage Improvements: Plans are in motion for version 1.0 and beyond to broaden the range of spells, focusing on more AoE and crowd control options. ||

[wild cypress]

Ledge protection when using Staves is sooooo welcome. :)

[teal dragon]

~~So I know it's not out yet, but I have a concern about the new i-frames...

They showed getting i-frames is a node, fine. Rolling doesn't have to inherently give i-frames, souls-like combat has sort of engrained that it "should" but honestly, that's all pretty arguable either way.

Blink, however, should always have i-frames or the animation needs to be altered. The fact that your character becomes straight up incorporeal mid-animation strongly suggests you should have a window of intangibility. While it's not confirmed yet, I didn't see Blink near the i-frame node. I think this is a mistake and it's in my opinion, a very unintuitive interaction that you can get hit out of Blink at all.

So my suggestion, either:

1. Give Blink the i-frames,
2. (I think best option) Make the i-frames a prerequisite for Blink.
3. Change the animation to have your character not be incorporeal.~~

(Edited wording a bit)

(Edit, i-frames are not a node they are base, whoops, misread it)

[floral gust]

hey guys, which has the best potential out of these 2 pls? I also pickled up a gem of switfness

[wild cypress]

Unless you're speccing into poison, the scythe cause of the crit boosts and the extra damage buffs that come from higher tiers. The bonus damage against Fell is nice, though not essential as most fo the time you're fighting non-Fell.

[floral gust]

cool, thanks

I have a new fav weapon 😄

[wild cypress]

Wait till you find some big knobby bastid with life tap.

[floral gust]

I can finally expand!

oops, wrong channel, my bad

[wild cypress]

Inflation is on another server 😹

[main needle]

Im hoping that bows will have the new strong attack, like holding down the draw to shoot a stronger shot

[floral gust]

hehe

[runic tree]

That's definitely a big oversight if it's a node to get iframes and blink doesn't benefit without heavy investment in an area a mage wouldn't necessarily be interested in.

Rewatched the vid again and iframes weren't part of the node, but baked directly into dodge roll. So I suppose the real question is does that baked in iframes get carried over to Blink as a replacer to dodge roll?

[unborn shore]

Gonna miss the warping toward enemies. I used that alot. Was that really that hated that they changed it? Or just changed cause they felt it was op.

[wild cypress]

I've seen a lot of people complain or think it's a bug.

[mossy ridge]

I can see how it would have caused some deaths... there were definitely times it got me in trouble - especially against those fel archers that love to run a freakin' marathon trying to create distance

[barren flame]

according to the video they changed it to balance the upcoming movesets

[gloomy hemlock]

no oni, not like that

[main dagger]

Much has been said about new weapon types and the desire for them. I personally would like to see pole arms/spears added, crossbows added, javelins added, and literally the ability to throw a rock added for peak early game ooga booga vibes. Thoughts?

Like, throwing a stone is the most basic form of attack there is.

[unborn shore]

Wamp wamp. It def wasnt a bug. It was nice.

[hidden harness]

How effective / worth it is going hard into healing in group play?

Im running bow right now but feel like a lot of time is just me sniping enemies while my friends wait to go loot. I figure going heals would let them get into it more

We play on survival so enemies be hitting hard

[fleet field]

You can definitely make a focused healer/spell damage build. In later game you can multiclass too, like being a paladin

[brittle nova]

gem of soulreaping spawns hella healing per kill

just have someone in yo0ur party use crash down to AoE proc the gem for all mobs that die xd

[hidden harness]

Is righteous fire bugged right now?

[fleet field]

I don't think so, I can check in a moment on my healer

oops sorry got that mixed up with the aura

Yeah unfortunately I don't see it working when I try it

[weak jungle]

idk why so few games let you actually throw rocks to do damage

and im all for spears and polearms

ig you can throw rocks in botw/totk but its not practical for killing anything other than maybe a red boko

[gleaming musk]

Yes.

[gleaming musk]

Both that and the Heal Crit skill are bugged atm. Heal crits work, but they only factor in your base crit rate, not your magic-specific crit rate

[hidden harness]

ty sir

[gleaming musk]

And as noted, Righteous Fire does nothing atm

[runic tree]

It being locked behind Martyr was disappointing enough because I did want to try it, but if it doesn't take your full magic crit chance into account I suppose I'm not missing out on much.

[floral gust]

is the power of a bow the overall potential if fully upgraded?

[fleet field]

No, power will also increase when you upgrade, plus any bonus from the enhancement mods

[gleaming musk]

Yeah. I would really love to see it fixed. Same with Righteous Fire

Would also love if Martyr and Righteous Fire got a rework. Martyr is extremely underwhelming, and even just on paper Righteous Fire is kinda disappointing

[floral gust]

good to know thanks

[hidden harness]

Do you guys ever go into wizard for ice damage for using the eternal ice arrows? If so how worth is it?

[fleet field]

Yes, I have an a magic ice ranger. I can share the build in a bit.

[hidden harness]

that would be swell. I've been looking at how to go about that

[fleet field]

https://enshrouded-skill-tree.com/?shortCode=69da961b1a6f486e8f9251ab
It might be difficult to do this build until later game because of the skill points needed. The current setup relies on having lots of stamina to use Bee Sting a lot. The water aura is for passive healing while floating. It can also be changed into a dagger parry build.

[runic tree]

Underwhelming is honestly an understatement for Martyr. Having to die to trigger the effect is highly unappealing, and makes it an objectively useless skill if you're a solo player.

[drowsy inlet]

I submitted a bug via ZenDesk, but is there another location here on Discord to follow up? I was unable to submit the screengrabs due to an error.

[gleaming musk]

I don't mind it being designed for co-op, especially given the tree it's in.

The real problem is that when you die, the effect is hardly noticable

[hidden harness]

are ice arrows considered to be magic weapons?

[gleaming musk]

No

[hidden harness]

yeahh I didnt think so.

[hidden harness]

Do you find it worth going into the ice nodes for ice arrows?

[cunning torrent]

https://youtube.com/shorts/HvEZTMngMzg?is=8TQcnVQOQzvB0wEL

[twilit cipher]

hello can i ask

wen for example you use any spell from the skills

is there a track like to see how much time is to the next use of this spell

or this is depends on stamina ?

[fleet field]

Every spell has a set cast time, it is different per spell. You can see the cast cooldown in the small targeting circle in the middle. The only thing that can change the cast time is the skill Quick Charge that reduces the cast time by 50%.

[runic tree]

I do, because the skills they added after it can be useful to solo players and it effectively becomes a skill point tax to get them.

[gleaming musk]

Except one barely functions, and the other doesn't work at all, so either way it doesn't currently matter.

File a ticket for the bugs, and a feedback post about Martyr blocking off nodes that would be theoretically useful in solo.

Martyr is by no means the only instance of "skill point tax" atm.

[azure terrace]

hi guys i want to ask about skill build

why i could never find any sword and shield build on youtube? is it because sword and shield not good? or something more?

[sharp current]

I use sword and shield, but I still tend to dodge and parry more than block. I think most people don't find blocking useful

[tiny osprey]

I find blocking is only decent if you take kick and aren't being swarmed..... big stamina drain / easy way to die otherwise

[quaint spindle]

shroud meteor shower scroll yay or nah

i have a bunch of scrolls and playing with em but shroud meteor shower is legit so mid

[tiny osprey]

i suppose it just depends on how you use it 🤷‍♀️
i haven't used em myself

[fallen obsidian]

big nah

[void juniper]

I dont play the game but it sounds yay

[pallid panther]

Magic weapons are wands and the 2h staff
Even wands which do impact damage count as magic weapons
So while ice arrows are maybe elemental damage in other games, the weapon itself, in this case the bow, is still a ranged weapon (whereas at the same time wands and staffs are technically NOT ranged weapons because they are already classified as magic weapons )

[lament shard]

Shroud beam is the only real Shroud spell considered atm

[steady crystal]

I feel a little letdown by the spoiler trailer for blocking and spells, new attack animations that don’t turn the player into a homing missile is a great direction to be moving in. But I was really hoping they would change blocking to be able to animation cancel more reliably. And atleast something with the staff to give the player a way to interact in closer ranges. There’s tons of design directions they could go with that. An alt fire mode that create separation, moving the player and enemies back is an example.

It also feels clunky that wards are parry oriented. And clearly intended for wizard/mage type characters,

yet Perry Power is locked behind merciless attack, which has no interactions with magic weapons. Arcane deflection giving 20 mana is like one second of regeneration.

The use case for parring for a mage is not there. It’s a high risk no reward maneuver whereas blink is a low risk Low reward option that just functions. The only time the ward really comes out is to stop a projectile

[lament shard]

Need to learn parry for ||dragon||

But blinking is better otherwise

[steady crystal]

OK, true there’s about 3 to 5 game minutes of use for parry out of the many play hours of the game.

[lament shard]

But block/parry in general isn't worth much

Shields/wards are stat sticks

[steady crystal]

That may change for melee now that every attack isn’t a teleport. But we will have to see.

[lament shard]

giggles in Blink Attack

[steady crystal]

I mean, currently the staff is not useless in melee, the fact that your spell is recharge while you are traveling in a jump lets you bunny hop kite effective. And being in the air seems to messes with the enemy attack AI.

I don’t know I haven’t tested, but it feels like enemies melee attack ai get scheduled only while you were on the ground. But that needs confirmation. Specifically, I’ve noticed less rushing charging attacks. They only seem to initiate those when you’re on the ground.

[misty gulch]

is there a good way to pair the staff with a melee build?

[wild cypress]

I'm trying this on my third character, who is sword/wand and shield primary and staff instead of bow and arrow, and it's alright. The skill split isn't as difficult as you'd worry once you get enough shroud roots (aka Skill Point sources) under your belt. I'm still pretty low level on that one but I can at least say you can make it work, with some patience.

I think the only hard advice I can give is to plan ahead with your skill points, a wasted point in the early game when splitting between tank and mage can feel very costly/make profession feel slow.

[misty gulch]

My goal of making a Salamander is possible let’s go! I’m definitely gonna put more points into melee in the beginning and treat the staff as a secondary.

[twilit cipher]

hello i have a question since i see that the tree of tallents have something new if i play with sword and shield how i can manige to take the Tallent Veteran for 10% more critical ?

the blush demage is doing same work as cutting ?

[mossy ridge]

Do you mean Veteran for 10% crit chance when using melee? If you want to use Swords you can go up through the cutting tree skills to Titan Edge - Swift Blades - and back down to Veteran

[marble olive]

The lack of animation cancel and the player having no poise at all make the combat clunky as hell. I really hope they come to their senses a bit and make combat mire dynamic.

[noble coral]

I mean... At the 26 we know more

[quiet marsh]

Ok I might have a problem here. Could anyone try it to confirm if it happens to them too please ? The skill "Breach" (I suppose it is that in english) says that overpowered enemies take 100% MORE damage from melee weapon. This skill worked fine UNTIL I unlock Shockwave. Now overpowered enemies only take normal damage while stunned.

[runic tree]

This is the staff and sword build I've been using, and it works pretty well for me:
https://enshrouded-skill-tree.com/?shortCode=69dd8c56417b6c70da577712

[misty gulch]

Thanks

[wild thunder]

The mage of my party asked if I can request in discord that the devs can remove the part where you step towards the enemy when firing off a spell.
He wants to live through combat, not inch towards it constantly 🥲
(we are below lvl 15)
😅

[wild cypress]

Chain Lightning and Heal Channel does not do that at least, and maybe some other spells (I'm still learning Mage); a combat overhaul is coming so hopefully this will be among included changes. 🍀 ❤️

[wild cypress]

If you want to give feedback directly to the devs, please use F1 in game or the Feature Upvote website.

[lilac prism]

What is Feature Upvote?

• It is a site where players can make suggestions for the game and upvote other suggestions for a chance to get them implemented.
• Please search for your suggestion before submitting to avoid duplicates.

Suggestions may be open/closed at any time to review backlogs.

• Upvote suggestions you like to increase their chances of being implemented.

Enshrouded Feature Upvote: Click Here

Please keep suggestions to one per ticket, we will delete any tickets containing general feedback, multiple suggestions or duplicates (as that defeats the purpose of the site.)

[exotic pollen]

they said they are fixing that in the combat changes video they release 4 days ago

[pallid panther]

I thought they only fixed the falling from sledges , not the step forward ?

[spiral plinth]

Did they mention a fix for great sword swing speed? I logged back in and forgot how bad they feel.

[spiral plinth]

I didn't even try to melee the dragon. I just cheesed him with a mage and don't regret it. HATE that boss...

[quiet marsh]

You took the speeding ability ?

[mossy ridge]

It's a weird choice from a weapon perspective that hammers do big swings and greatswords do big bonk (chop)... should really be the other way around in terms of animation styles

[spiral plinth]

I don't see anything specifically for greatswords. My comparison is vs 2h maces. I have a bunch of high level chracters (I think I only got 1 to 45, I didn't care for the new zone)

[spiral plinth]

yeah, axes & hammers should be linear, swords should be faster and more horizontal. Even if you've never used them, physics is a thing, a big weight on the end of something moves slower.

And I'm 100% ok if swords do less damage in return for being faster to normalize DPS

I just want to use a big dude in midieval armor who uses a big sword. Or alternately a blonde chick in "slutty armor" who also uses a big sword

[wild cypress]

[Lord Deimos has entered the chat]

[spiral plinth]

Pretty much. Sigfried/Nightmare was my fav character in soul calibur

[wild cypress]

I think Deimos made it into a Soul Calibur game eventually hehe.

[spiral plinth]

In WoW I mainly played tanks, I'd love it if they could do something like either the warrior tank or paladin tank in Enshrouded

[brave quest]

I need this patch innmy soul

[spiral plinth]

I was very pleasantly surprised by the most recent youtube video

[elfin beacon]

I am actually really excited for these changes! Based on what they've shown, they look good.

[steady crystal]

biggest buff to wizards is that begone can be skipped now 😛 , unless they improved it, have the skill was little like having a car seat belt that only belts down your neck.
I mean the tool tip should just read "waste 3 skill points" you can't even use it if you wanted to with how items get auto added to your hot bar.

maybe we can reach into deep skills like the ranger crit with fewer points, wet dog it it still works would be nice for soaked builds if reaching it is not costly.

1 point of Frost looks to be good enough for wizards too. the slow amount is the same only the duration changes. If it is not dead in 3 seconds you have bigger issues.

[elfin beacon]

I just hope for some more spells but sounds like that will be something closer to 1.0 or beyond.

[steady crystal]

I would be happy with making the current spells good.
when is the last time you cast light burst? all the spells that are not fire ball and ice bolt need more range.

[steady crystal]

I was today years old when I learned you can hug the wall to get past the triple spinning spike cylinders traps. I have been doing all kinds of dumb shit.
I have been using timing and updraft while standing on something like a vase or ledge to fly over them.

[drowsy hamlet]

Wait what? You can!

[steady crystal]

yea you just stand there

I have used heal channel's projectiles chase delay to follow me as I jump through so it will rez me when they pass, you also have to later go back and get your inventory from the other side

while all along I could have "stood to the left a little" and been fine.

[gaunt crypt]

huh.. I tried that right away :o what I also have tried is many more things that got me killed horribly with the traps xD

is it a common bug to get killed by the same trap twice even after you respawn elsewhere?

[finite birch]

I was trying to blink through them but it's still hurty.

[elfin beacon]

That too. Only spells I use are fire ball and ice bolt. Fire ball does massive AOE damage vs shroud and undead enemies, and ice bolt does AOE damage and slows vs everything else.
Even the heals don't seem worth casting as it's almost always better to throw a fireball or ice bolt to kill the enemies than to try to heal someone if they are in trouble.

Nothing else seems worth casting really.

[wild cypress]

Legit this is the playstyle I've fallen into.

[leaden pivot]

are you on a modified higher difficulty?

[elfin beacon]

Nope. Enemies were on standard difficulty.

[leaden pivot]

just thought i'd ask, most of the others i've played with pump it up a lot lol

im on vanilla settings as far as i know

[elfin beacon]

Yeah I probably would raise it a notch or two but the people I play with wouldn't like it. We still get some challenge and it's fun but mage gameplay definitely could use some improvements, which do sound like it's on the list eventually.

At least wands will have an "ultimate" attack for next update which will help.

[leaden pivot]

oh cool

i don't watch videos for game releases myself so im in the dark here

least til patch notes drop in text

[elfin beacon]

They showed what looked like some kind of persistent AOE frozen vortex effect for an ice wand. You charge up an ultimate bar by making attacks then you can use it, though it looks like it charges up fairly quickly.

[leaden pivot]

yeah im sure it'l be cool, part of the adventure to find all the new stuff ^^

[elfin beacon]

Yeah I hope each wand type has a unique effect.

[steady crystal]

It is easy to brake the Armor system with enemy Damage settings. to make the game harder but not broken, lower player HP first, I like 50%, The Buff up enemy attack rate and enemy HP to 200%, boss HP to 150% (the dragon will take for ever on higher settings),

why not enemy damage? Armor is a 1 to 1 reduction so 200% enemy damage hits you more like 400% damage

50% player HP is fine too as the setting only changes Hp per con point. HP from food and gear all give flat HP and is not effected, so 50% HP is not truly 50%, but traps become truly deadly. lowering player HP has the side effect of buffing healing spells and pots,

[lament shard]

Don't use Chain Lightning? That's my default while switching to ice or fire for Scavengers or Fell respectively

Healing is more of a post combat action

[elfin beacon]

I've really tried to make it work, but the chaining seemed inconsistent and the range too low. Seemed more effective to lob a fireball.

[lament shard]

Stunlock so fun though...

I just use whatever is super effective against things...

[elfin beacon]

Maybe if we turned up the difficulty, but on whatever the default is a couple of fireballs would kill most things before chain lightning could stun them.

[gleaming cipher]

How does parrying work exactly? am I supposed to hold or flick right click? Is it supposed to consume all stamina or is this server lag mistaking it for block (while also staggering)

[elfin beacon]

You tap right click during the parry window. Each NPC has a different parry window, but for most NPCs their weapon will briefly glow during it.

[gleaming cipher]

is it supposed to consume all my stamina though

[elfin beacon]

Depends on your weapon or shield, and maybe what you're trying to parry? But in general no.

[lament shard]

Depends!

[gleaming cipher]

Here's a clip, this is on pretty much max difficulty and all enemies have about 3x damage

It sometimes consumes all stamina, and sometimes doesn't. Can't figure out why

[boreal zephyr]

I would love to see the weapons of this game feeling different from each other

[elfin beacon]

Those do a lot of damage per hit, so probably takes more stamina to parry? Keep in mind if you got the difficulty increased so much you're taking way more damage than you normally would be as well.

It's taking YOUR entire stamina bar, but on default difficulty it wouldn't.

[untold gate]

Does Quickcharge affect channeling skills?

[untold gate]

Gem of Acrobatic copies your arrow if you it equip?

[verbal junco]

Anyone know if the upcoming skill tree for update 8 is posted anywhere yet?

[sick ermine]

its not

[spiral plinth]

I mean it's a week away, not long to wait.

[spiral plinth]

I mean greatsword feels different, just not in a good way lol

[boreal zephyr]

I mean each Greatsword feeling different from each other

Not from type to type

Weapons are stat sticks

As it is

[spiral plinth]

If you're advocating for say each 2h axe to feel separate and distinct, A, this isnt the game for that, B, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze

[boreal zephyr]

[spiral plinth]

I don't think you're ever going to see that even in something that was a hardcore simulation. If I'm chopping wood with an axe, I swing a heavier axe the same as a lighter axe, I'm just less precise and get tired quicker

[spiral plinth]

Something that I think is important (even though this is a game I bought and play for fun), feedback has to be actionable to be good. I think they could alter the swing speeds of weapons and it looks like they have changed some attack animations with update 8

And while yes, they are "stat sticks" to a degree, the models matter. I really like that the game had transmog out of the box so you could wear one armor but get the appearance of another

[gleaming cipher]

as in sometimes it doesn't consume stamina AT ALL. is this just a bug

[elfin beacon]

I haven't played much in the current update but I don't remember having that issue but I never paid too much attention to it either.

[elfin beacon]

That's asking for something a bit out of scope of a game like this.
Maybe in a dedicated realistic sword fighting simulator, but in general i haven't played any survival or RPG game where every single variation of every weapon type felt distinct from each other.
The best is to have each weapon type feel unique and different, with maybe some special legendary like weapons that spice it up with some unique attacks.

And there's a limit to how many different attack animations the animators can realistically make. There's hundreds of different weapons in the game and having them make a unique animation for each one isn't really possible.

[boreal zephyr]

Dark Souls weapons are like this aren't they? They have some variation in attack animation and all

To spice a bit up

[elfin beacon]

I haven't played dark souls but this is the first I've heard of such a thing for it.

But also dark souls is a dedicated fighting game that literally launched an entire genre of game, so comparing apples to oranges here.

We're not going to see souls level of combat in Ensrouded, nor do I believe most people who play this game would actually want that.
The coming changes are good as combat was a bit stale currently, but Enshrouded isn't meant to be catering to the Dark Souls audience.

[spiral plinth]

I absolutely don't want dark souls. I want something arcady. And despite some nitpicks, melee is far and away my fav combat style in the game.

[scarlet lintel]

Do lore weapons ever reach a reasonable level? I have been putting off flame levels while I wait for a friend, but I looted a bunch of chests and I have found legendary lvl 50 items of every weapon type including sub categories, will these always better than any lore weapon you find pre veilwater basin?

[wild cypress]

Right now if I recall correctly the max is level 39 at blue quality; hoping future updates change this.

[scarlet lintel]

it downgrades them? I've found legendarys and epics

i havent checked their crafting in a while but i thought they were at least epic (purple)

[wild cypress]

Well they are higher level so may end up doing more damage, but since blue quality not as many extra effects. It's not the best IMO.

If I am mistaken about quality I'll ask someone to please check and update, don't wanna give out bad info but not in game right now.

[scarlet lintel]

thats really weak, i do hope they change that

[wild cypress]

On one hand you do come across better weapons pretty regularly, on the other hand, let me have my RP fave weapons lol.

[scarlet lintel]

I mean i have the greatsword gauntlets and guard of the north greatsword already, idk why neither are in the deadly shroud

so at least 2 lore items are viable, but they also shouldent be something I can access rn

[spiral plinth]

It's weird we can transmog armor but not weapons. My main has been running with the armor from one of the terrible dungeons because I want armor that looks like proper armor

I think I have a copy of every greatsword skin in the game

[wild cypress]

I think something was teased about weapon transmog down the road? My brain is mush, though, so don't solely take my word for it.

[spiral plinth]

I mean it's fine either way, it's not going to keep me from playing the game. I very much liked the viking themed area, veilwater basin was very meh, I think the combat will give me some meat to work through.

[wicked grotto]

which of these are better? Obviously with the Mythic wand fully upgraded

[wild cypress]

They are both wonderful, but fewer foes resist shock.

[wicked grotto]

thank you!

[teal dragon]

Is there any confirmation the heavy attack does stance damage outside of when enemies are specifically blocking?

[woven scroll]

Are there any lvl 45 weapons that can do retaliate and health leech?

[dull copper]

quick question, as i have been out of the game for quite some time. has there been any changes/fix to the tank aggro in the skeleton/undead dungeons? i remember the aggro mechanics did not work at all in those places, rendering a tank build useless. ❤️ ❤️

[wild cypress]

Update coming on the 21st will hopefully have that fixed, but not fixed as of this moment.

[dull copper]

cheers! i looked at the two vids they dropped about the update, but no mention of it. of course no patch notes yet to peruse 🙂

but the combat and skill + gear changes is making it so im gonna go again once the update hits regardless. would be cool if they fixed the aggro issue as then the dungeons would be a lot more fun with my group

[wild cypress]

I'm praying to the Ancients.

[dull copper]

will admit i cant wait for them to add more of the stats back on rings/weapons/armour, not to mention being able to salvage rings!!! got like 10 chest of them -_-

[spiral plinth]

I'm hoping the light effect comes on more rings or is something we can add. It's so handy!

[keen mountain]

Aggro Skills always worked for me in group as the Tank I always was able to get Aggro 100% of the time

[wild cypress]

Specifically in Hollow Halls it hasn't worked reliably for some time and it's a known issue, so I think they're referring to that.

[keen mountain]

Like I Said worked fine for our groups

Also in hollow halls

[wild cypress]

Your subjective experience, while good for you and your team, doesn't reflect known issues the devs are working on so I am glad you had a positive exception to this trend.

[hushed sierra]

I hope rune upgrade costs would go down. We don't always have enough to rarely upgrade new better weapons. So when armors, shields and rings will need to be upgraded it could become a complete chore. And we loot everything and recycle unneeded weapons. The only thing we don't do is rune farming. Well, only from time to time.

[elfin beacon]

You can change how many runes you get back when you salvage equipment that's been upgraded though.

[tired axle]

does this increase all healing or only the healing from spells?

like the healing from battle heal and water aura

or leech heal

[wild cypress]

Healing spells including Water Aura are definitely buffed, I think life tap from staves as well. Unsure about life tap from rings, and pretty sure potions aren't spells so I don't think they're affected, but always open to correction.

@gleaming musk might know for sure, he's sorta the Mage knower.

[tired axle]

yea it definitely works on water aura

but i'm unsure about leech procs

[wild cypress]

Not too difficult to test, if you end up testing it please share results here to share knowledge!

[gleaming musk]

Surprisingly, I don't actually know that! Though now I'm curious haha

I kinda traded my Staff of the Moor for an Oracle's Everblue for both more MP and aesthetics 🫠

[tired axle]

i'm not exactly playing mage

i'm playing berserker/healer

kind of a weird combo but i heal so much

i'm a bit sad Water Aura can't crit with Divine Surge

[gleaming musk]

Not that weird tbh, especially since healing spells dont scale off of any stat atm

[tired axle]

makes that entire area of the tree kind of irrelevant

since martyr is meh

[gleaming musk]

With that chestpiece even Heal Channel heals a buttload.

[tired axle]

yea i use mostly melee gear, but with that chest piece

water aura is healing for 52 per tick

[gleaming musk]

And honestly you can skip investing much in Int by using the Gem of Soul Reaping

[tired axle]

104 if you count my buddy that definitely appreciates it lol

[gleaming musk]

Yeah Water Aura + healer chest is definitely the way to go for passive HP regen

[gleaming musk]

They'll appreciate a Gem of Soul Reaping even more 😉

That thing gives absolutely bonkers amounts of healing, despite what the description says haha

[woven scroll]

Have anyone tried taking all the buffs and potions available

Just for the sake of it

Similar to ainz ooal gown from overlord

[spiral plinth]

I don't think you can. I mean I've had a ton of buffs stacked at once but some of them are mutually exclusive

If they made water aura easier to get to, I'd love a Wow paladin solo tank type build. You can do it with 2h and some of the later self healing but you're too squishy in the early game

I also wonder when/if they'll put level requirements on weapons

[slim void]

is there a place to vote on or suggest/request features?

[lilac prism]

What is Feature Upvote?

• It is a site where players can make suggestions for the game and upvote other suggestions for a chance to get them implemented.
• Please search for your suggestion before submitting to avoid duplicates.

Suggestions may be open/closed at any time to review backlogs.

• Upvote suggestions you like to increase their chances of being implemented.

Enshrouded Feature Upvote: Click Here

Please keep suggestions to one per ticket, we will delete any tickets containing general feedback, multiple suggestions or duplicates (as that defeats the purpose of the site.)

[shell zephyr]

☝️

[spiral plinth]

Funny story, I went to request something, then saw I had already requested it. . . at least I'm consistent lol

[slim void]

are they ever going to do persistent combat pets for mage or beastmaster? only skill thats missing

[runic zealot]

This should be a thing. Why is it not, skill synergy is such a dead concept to this game I fear. It's there but it's just not fully fleshed out yet.

[lament shard]

It's like they're planning a whole skill rework or something...

[runic zealot]

No.. thats not possible

Hmmmmm... source?

= 3=)?

[steady crystal]

so this update is not even the combat update right? that was listed for autumn on the road map

[tepid stag]

this update, #8, updates the player combat as well as the skill tree. it looks like 1.0 will be the combat enemy AI update

so there's both

[tired axle]

the foundation for a good system is there tho so i'm not worried, hopefully in this next update the skill tree rework moves in the right direction

[runic zealot]

Next update is combat update I believe, the trailer here in #socials-feed mentions details of it

[tired axle]

i hope they do, or maybe flame level requirement per bracket, because once the new update hits, we're gonna restart our run and it'll be difficult to make sure players don't just go all the way to a max level zone and get an end game weapon at lvl 5

[steady crystal]

I watch the trailer, I am saying on the road map it is listed under 1.0

[lilac prism]

Enshrouded Roadmap

Don't see a feature you want on the roadmap? Create a suggestion on Featureupvote!

Image too small? Here's a direct link to the image.

Roadmap current as of January 2026

[runic zealot]

Maybe this update is part of the blacked out "Polishing Update"

And the Combat Improvements is for the enemy movesets and AI reworking update.

After all, the combat has been desperately needing some polishing

[tepid stag]

idk about desperately, oof

[steady crystal]

I know about desperately. do you need to hear about it?

[runic zealot]

Imo at least it desperately needed it.

[tepid stag]

no, I can have an opinion without being lectured, but ty for the offer

[runic zealot]

I luv a gud in-depth combat system

[steady crystal]

I do like the game, I am here after all, We have looked the poor combat game loop for "early access" reasons. If I was honest tho, Given how much this game ask you to fight in combat, it should have a larger focus in design, as it is, You walk up to enemies, spam left click, and they stand there eating hits until they fall over, which pretty much removes any reason to learn the parry system or think about positioning at all. Or you stand outside the IA's detection range spam spells. that is until they they brake out the zoomies and out run a spell's flight time. You can't use lock on until enemy's are a short distance away at which time spell casting takes too long (rip shroud meter) muti enemy fights are a mess too because the soft targeting and attack animations drag your character around like a ragdoll. The majority of spells are unusable for their niche or have no niche, spell selection interface is a mess that changes order every time you craft new spells. Two-handed melee sits there critting for absurd numbers, while mages are scrolling to find ice bolt, never mind the melee self healing / life leach spam.
Thank goodness they are fixing stealth, as right now sneak attacks are basically a myth since enemies spin around and aggro the second you get close.
animations play for so long and you can't cancel out of them to use the block or parry mechanic in a flowing way, you have to stand there waiting for an attack to have a chance to parry.
The whole system feels like a placeholder that shipped and then got patched sideways instead of forward, and no amount of new weapons or loot reworks changes the fact that the core combat loop is spammy

@slim void what is untrue?

[wild cypress]

This has not been my experience. Good luck.

[main dagger]

I know it will never happen, but I really want a more souls-like experience to combat. More emphasis on parrying, faster enemy attacks, more aggressive enemies, more boss fights like the dragon, etc.

[misty sedge]

You can turn the settings up for faster enemy attacks and more frequent enemy attacks.

I'd personally like a bit more options for player combat, but I don't want this game to be anything like any souls game. I play this game to relax, not trial and error a midboss 30 times before I beat it

The dragon is 10x harder than anything in Elden Ring, but only because it's (imo) poorly designed.

[steady crystal]

souls may be too far for this game., I love firm software games, and I like enshrouds combat system to steal from it. just not the full extent. Also difficulty presets, that are dialed /balanced with intention in would be useful for a varied player base

[main dagger]

Mostly I want a parry and riposte system that rewards that play style and more event boss fights. Would be cool to have more unique bosses with phases, and bosses that have to do with the lore. I would give anything in v1.0 when we get to the floating island to have Vorgoth or the Mysterious Wanderer as final bosses.

[steady crystal]

Harder is not the complaint. the complaint is a lack of interactivity within the combat system. We can play with max enemy count. max attack rate/ damage, max enemy HP, 25% player HP, Does not make it fun just frustrating.

[elfin beacon]

Next update is pretty much reworking melee player combat.
Mage gameplay is on the list, but not for this coming update. You should revisit your feedback after doing a new play through with the next update, which is in 4 days.

[spiral plinth]

Oh dear lord no. That dragon is terrible and not fun at all. At least IMO. I'd drop the game in a heartbeat. I almost did because fighting the dragon was just not fun at all for me.

[main dagger]

As a souls veteran, the dragon was honestly a fair and interesting challenge.

[spiral plinth]

I don't play souls-like games, but I did play a TON of world of Warcraft and I think that's a much better inspiration. Parrying is viable in the current game but it shouldn't be a requirement. I have zero problems with "spam abilities, kill lots of enemies, repeat". I have minor nitpicks with the combat system, magic does need some love and I've just never had an interest in archery but by and large, it's not bad

[spiral plinth]

I mean that's fine for you, but for me and anyone even more casual than me, it was too much even with the health and damage tuned as low as they'd go. I cheesed him with a mage build. The problem is you HAVE to kill the dragon to progress. If the dragon was optional, I'd have skipped it and you can make it as challenging as you want.

[elfin beacon]

I personally enjoyed the dragon fight. Took us a few attempts. We did it the "right way" and it was fun. HOWEVER, there were 3 of us, 2 of them mages.
I think the fight was a bit unforgiving, and too favored for ranged.

[main dagger]

Unironically, I think the fight is balanced for melee, almost comically so. Played solo melee on standard difficulty and if you parry the fireballs it's very easy to down the dragon and defeat it within three or four stuns. Just bring a dozen superior health potions in case of emergency.

It is unforgiving, but that's part of the fun imo. I love fights where one has to play perfectly.

[runic zealot]

I wonder if they have a tutorial that teaches u projectile reversals

[wild cypress]

It's called Fell Sicklescythe and it's a very harsh lesson lol.

[runic zealot]

Ohhhh

I tried parrying those projectiles immediately cause my first thought was thinking of OoT Ganon

And it worked!

Best boss fight imo

[wild cypress]

The reason I consider it a complete lesson is because she also throws things you can't parry lol.

[runic zealot]

It's weird that the Draks with the Chakrams which basically do the exact same atk as that boss, cannot be parried back tho.

Just a small inconsistency gripe I have with the game tho.

[wild cypress]

I really agree, it would feel so satisfying to smack them back while stuck in a multi mob fight.

[runic zealot]

Very much so 😔💔

[spiral plinth]

They dont explicitly tell you but the floating jellyfish things that shoot the electrical bolt things. I've actually never reflected the fell sicklescythe's thingies, but I use 2h almost exclusively (you have to use a shield on the jellyfish thingies)

[noble coral]

Uh about the ball of light thing, I've got a few issues.
Honestly, we fight a incorporation of evil there. Why he's shooting a ball of light at us?
Second, we're just parrying there with a sword made by gods.
Kinda different to what Enshrouded equipped us with, tbh.
Not every game needs to do the same shticks.

[hushed sierra]

btw have they changed them? or wards don't work against them? Recently I couldn't parry one jelly back, it just doesn't work

[noble coral]

Wards don't do that sadly

Wards only reflect magical attacks to my knowledge and also only of that type?

[misty sedge]

That "incorporation of evil" gets distracted by a fishing pole bobber, so he's just a silly guy with light in his heart at the end of the day

[noble coral]

Nah that's because he's a demon fish just

[hushed sierra]

wow, so I didn't just unlearn the skill. I only now suspected that about wards. So not only they have terrible stats, they also nerfed them in this?
It's interesting if they make something good from them in the new update

[noble coral]

Well, we'll know in around 3!

Stay tuned folks!

[runic tree]

I know wards do bounce the sicklescythes back, but I've never tried the jellyfish attacks. The few I've fought I've always nuked before they got the chance.

Also, I saw the skill node where Quick Charge is had a third tier in the skill tree update teaser. Dare I hope for a further spell cast time reduction buff?

[noble coral]

https://giphy.com/gifs/brothersosborne-brothers-osborne-bros-younger-me-ciAOWdNSflclOWj3Fc

[runic tree]

Interesting. Martyr got moved to the Tank tree.

That honestly actually makes some sense for that skill.

Also, looks like something related to Merciless Attack is in the Battlemage tree now. Edit: correction, there's a merciless icon in multiple skill trees.

Yeah, the new skill tree layout definitely has me a bit hyped. The only thing I can't tell just from the teaser is if some of the more underwhelming skills have been given a bit of love.

[frigid tusk]

will this game allow to PVP combat with fri ? like duel for fun

[humble bobcat]

Highly unlikely, I would guess

[wild cypress]

No current plans, and based on community manager comments, it is likely not going to happen. It would require a completely new team to manage balance for basically a second game.

[frigid tusk]

it would be fun for building arena let have a fight with fri. but unfortunately no.

[humble bobcat]

Maybe someone will make it a mod later down the road.

[steady crystal]

Yea I would like PvP, I am sure if we make the suggestion here it will get considered again. https://enshrouded.featureupvote.com/

[steady crystal]

post your want here https://enshrouded.featureupvote.com/

[frigid tusk]

cool i will submit suggestion there

[wild cypress]

Search for current posts and upvote them, ideally. New suggestions require approval and that can take a while.

[steady crystal]

other suggestions may not cover your concept. there is a wealth of types of PVP that can be considered. You should voice your want too.

[steady crystal]

That seems unlikely to have the tools required for a PVP experience. simply changing players as targets not enough. PvP players need to be brought together of equivalent skill. Lore and world building reasons would help too.

that takes dev support.

[humble bobcat]

Which is why it's unlikely to be supported officially in the near future. This has been designed from the start to be a cooperative, PvE experience. It would take a lot of work to support PvP. If all you want to do is goof off and fight your friends, that's one thing. If you want balanced PvP, matchmaking, etc., that's a whole other ball game.

[steady crystal]

Meh, Starcraft 2 currently has like 1 person at activision/ blizzard running the balance for a game that is mostly an Esport.

Players that have been corrupted by the Fell, invading other's worlds is quite fun and can piggy back off the currently hosting system. A PvP toggle, or in game item that flags your world as open for PVP would be easy to implement.

I don't think it would take a 2nd team, the Devs are already working on combat balance. taking the nerf bat to an ability when used vs players is straightforward

[humble bobcat]

But... why? There are so many other games that would be so much better at PvP than this one. Why does this one need PvP?

[wild cypress]

Starcraft 2 launched 16 years ago and is not in a development upturn; Starcarft 2 isn't a voxel game; Starcraft 2 isn't made in a custom engine from the ground up; Starcraft 2 is in maintenance mode after years of aggressive development from one of the biggest game studios ever.

PVP requires turning and balancing all classes against each other and then retuning and rebalancing them every time a patch comes out which affects PVE, mob type or traits and new biomes. PVP requires enough development as to merit a second team or the splitting of time of the team working on PVE. PVP invites whole new avenues of toxicity and negativity which can influence a growing game, especially one which hasn't launched yet, in ways that cannot be managed.

Enshrouded is still in prelaunch development. Enshrouded is made by a small indie team who is already having to pick between what they can offer versus what they are being asked. Enshrouded is a building and exploration game which happens to have combat in it as a way to help some aspects of exploration feel more challenging. Enshrouded devs have specifically stated there is no interest in PVP at this time.

[humble bobcat]

I would personally rather that effort be put into new areas to explore, new buildables, better crafting balance, etc.

[steady crystal]

you can say you don't want it, it's ok.,
But I do.

[wild cypress]

And what color do you want your dragon to be? 🎅

[humble bobcat]

But why do you want it in Enshrouded specifically?

[spiral plinth]

I've never tried with a mage. When I leveled my mage, they didn't exist.

[steady crystal]

Why are you 2 opposing something what would not impact you but others find fun?

"as a mod" "too much dev support" It reads a "not in my back yard"

[wild cypress]

Alright, man, have fun wishing for dragons and being upset other people don't want this game to be more like other games. What I love most about Enshrouded is how it doesn't chase trends or try to copy what's popular.

[steady crystal]

People in the suggestion website have said they want it.

[humble bobcat]

I'm a software developer by trade. I know entirely too well that you can only do so much. Adding all of the features necessary for PvP takes time and effort that could instead be spent on the game's existing, core game mode. Enshrouded wasn't designed for structured PvP. It doesn't need to be — there are so many other games you can play if you want PvP.

Also, yes, PvP tends to bring very toxic people into the game's community. Most of us here don't want that.

[steady crystal]

wow.

[humble bobcat]

I'm not saying you in particular are toxic.

I'm saying that games with PvP tend to attract very toxic people to their communities.

[elfin beacon]

Personally I'd be fine with pvp simply being a toggle in the options for a server, with no other support or balancing. Kind of a "it's enabled, but up to you how to use it" but I'm sure it's not as easy to actually add.

If you want to make a fighting arena for your friends it would be up to you to do so.

[steady crystal]

I think firmsoftware's invasion system with a toggle is the cleanest for enshrouded. while world is online, people who want to participate downs an consumable to flagging them as invadable or looking to invade. Flame born defending the flame as defenders. . Flame born who scummed to corruption as invaders. The invader appears at nearest enshrouded return beacon to the world's host, bringing with them a wash of deadly shrouded that encloses the current play area. And as rewards, rare crafting blocks. weapons and abilities have a "vs player" modifier for balance. (looking at terror mage skill) The same existing limited permissions system works fine for the invadors.

[main dagger]

I agree, an invasion system would be one of the best ways to implement a pvp feature. Along similar lines, an invasion system where an invading player takes direct control of an enemy (scavenger, fell, etc) in an area a player is currently in instead of invading with their flameborn character might also be cool.

[wild cypress]

PVP is not planned for the game.
#game-faq message

[steady crystal]

plans change

[spiral plinth]

My opinion has always been PVP balancing kills the PVE experience.

[steady crystal]

weapons and abilities have a "vs player" modifier for balance. has no impact on PVe

[steady crystal]

that could be neat but I think i would like to invade as myself. or defend.

[spiral plinth]

They still have to set aside time and resources balancing everything. There's no free lunch.

[humble bobcat]

Let's put a moratorium on PvP combat discussion in this channel for a while and focus on combat in the current game and in Update 8, yeah?

[steady crystal]

I suspect the millions of sales they have has room in the budget.

[main dagger]

At the very least I would like to see a fencing mini game added. Something like you grab a wooden sword and meet your friend, challenge them to a "duel" and first to three hits wins. Each match wagers 1000 runes lol.

[spiral plinth]

That they could spend on PVE content. They have plenty of things left to do without wasting time on PVP in my opinion

[steady crystal]

Yea pvp would take some of the pressure off a push to make Pve engaging too.

[steady crystal]

right different people have different wants.

[spiral plinth]

That would likely be a very poor business decision

[steady crystal]

?

[spiral plinth]

You're basically saying don't worry about a good PVE experience but add PVP

PVE needs to be engaging, full stop.

[humble bobcat]

... and replace it with pressure to make PvP engaging?

Again, the devs have said they have no interest in adding PvP. This is a PvE game. Can we please drop this?

[steady crystal]

I am not saying that. I said some of the pressure. Some parts of the player base what PVE to be more extreme that others. PvP is an outlet. that is not the same as Pve being not engaging you are just attacking the idea

[misty sedge]

The only way I see PvP working for Enshrouded is a toggle like it is in Valheim. Precisely and literally nothing more.

[steady crystal]

you can drop it when ever you want.

[steady crystal]

yea

[main dagger]

Imo, a good pvp element, whether a mini game or a toggleable "invasion" feature when paired with an amazing pve experience is optimal.

[spiral plinth]

We might debate on the definition of what "engaging" PVE entails. But putting in PVP would just be a waste of resources.

[misty sedge]

No invasion systems like the souls games. Nothing balanced around PvP.

But I can understand the desire to build an arena and slap the homies around in that creation.

[spiral plinth]

Personally, I do my PVP in real life, played hockey this morning, playing again tonight, don't want it in my video games.

[steady crystal]

Souls games invasion are not optional if your online, that is not what is being suggested.

[main dagger]

Earlier I suggested an invasion system where an invading player takes control of etant enemies like the fell or scavengers. I think that would be interesting and probably balanced in favor of the defending player.

And for it to be completely optional

[steady crystal]

#combat-and-skills message that is

[wild cypress]

That would be cute, and possibly more fun if never balanced, like some modes/versions of TF2 lol.

[steady crystal]

Yea there is a wide range of options to consider.

[misty sedge]

Wooden sword duels could be good - we have snowballs that you can throw at each other but don't do any damage, wooden swords could be the same but melee

But it would have to stagger players when it hits because melee is kinda click spammy at the moment

But then, that's resources dedicated to PVP technically and I'd prefer that to be a very post 1.0 thing, if ever

[steady crystal]

well the next update is changing that already and is not a resourc for PVP but works for PVP.

[steady crystal]

shairing, am I right

[misty sedge]

I mean, programming a player-held wooden sword to stagger another friendly player would require dev time that I'd prefer be spent on polishing the current game

But yeah, the stuff they've mentioned for the upcoming update should help melee be less spammy

[main dagger]

I only hope that with the melee updates that parrying becomes more rewarding. Love me some good parry and riposte. It shouldn't be essential, but a high risk/high reward for it would be nice.

Side note, I don't understand why the devs added hypothermia to the summits but didn't add a heatstroke element to the kindlewastes to make you keep drinking water.

[wild cypress]

Cause there are Curses in that zone and that's enough pain lol (my guess).

[misty sedge]

My only expectation regarding this is that they're working on a heat mechanic for the final biome

[mortal marsh]

https://www.enshrouded-skill-tree.com/?shortCode=69e1ba0f9787e060347f41fb

Hey friends, my friend and I were theory crafting a Paladin build in the game. I'd like to share what I came up with and ask for feedback

Things I already know:

• Lack of extra food slot feels bad but isn't the end of the world
• Has the option to switch to two-handed weapons if you want, damage type nodes can be switched based on preference, i went with the classic "Sword/Hammer" theme Paladins have.
• only Fell foes take the damage from the fire aura
• Martyr only works if playing with friends, so if solo can switch to other stuff
• Nemesis also only works if playing with friends. If playing solo, the points for nemesis and martyr can be spent heading up the survivor tree, or getting Whirlwind.
• Merciless attack might rarely get used, but is connected to a bonus stun amount to Parrying, which can be useful. Can move points around to get the grapple attacks for convenience

What do you guys think?

Ideal weapon would be anything with added fire damage, to synergize with the wizard fire nodes

i also realize the whole tree is switching come Tuesday, but this was a fun thought

Max flame level has your stats looking like this:
15 Strength
9 Endurance
15 Constitution
14 Intelligence
11 Spirit
8 Dexterity

I put the leftover point for +1 strength, but can opt for any stat besides Con based on how i did the tree

[half furnace]

i like the build. personally i dont switch weapons that much, so i use sword and shield for a similar build. i go for the "ranger" talent for the crit chance, and use evasion attack and battleheal. im not sure what difficulty you play with your friends, but sometimes having the group stay far back and rush in as a tank might help with aggro-ing all enemies. ive never been a fan of the current merciless attack.
these are my thoughts

[elfin beacon]

Exactly this. Minimal development time. No integration or influence on other parts of the game. Just a simple pvp opt in setting for servers to enable.
Anything more is unwarranted, would take dev time away from other features, and potentially cause issues in unrelated areas of the game.

[steady crystal]

It should not even be something that needs turned on or off. An in game consumable who's text tells you it is to activate PVP. No need for a setting, no 4th wall. could come from the collector. or crafted from fell items

[elfin beacon]

No. It should be a server setting so servers can enable it if they want to.
Pvp should absolutely not be added to the main game. It must remain a separate, entirely hands off optional feature that must be enabled at both the server and player options level.

It is meant for goofing off with friends or running organized pvp events on a community server. Nothing outside of that will work.

I have never played a similar game where pvp was integrated into the game itself. It's always a server setting or a player toggle.
And Enshrouded should be no different. Adding a "pvp zone" or "pvp consumable" or an invasion mode would run completely counter to this game's pve coop nature and would lead to griefing too.
So sorry, but I'd recommend looking elsewhere for a pvp game as there are many great pvp focused games out there to play.

[steady crystal]

It is the same bloody thing, a server setting or an consumable item that both host and invader uses to link up like in other games. Banishing it a menu is clucky.

[elfin beacon]

No it's not the same thing.
One is a game setting and one is an in game item.

That's like saying a server password is the same thing as a door lock in game.

Last I checked, I didn't need to use an in game consumable to change difficulty settings or setup server configs.

You're really stretching here to try to justify integrating pvp into a game not meant for it, with a player base who largely don't want it.
It's fine to present ideas, but likewise others can disagree with said ideas. It's just not a good fit for this game.

Like I said though I would love it to be a setting so people could host pvp events if they want to with their friends and community. What's wrong with that?

[main dagger]

As I said earlier, a fencing mini game would be something I'd be happy with. Something that the only cost would be wagered items like runes or health potions, and bragging rights. Devs could even make an arena for it in the event honor hall or something.

[sour rain]

@gleaming musk
just got to the dragon fell boss, wanted to ask if u have a quick idea on which staff/wand i should be looking/farming for and the best spells for this boss

[gleaming musk]

||Pretty much any staff with Mana Leech. For wands, you'll only use them to fight the Draconian Vulture minions so you can stay mobile. From what I remember, they're weak to fire and cold, but I may be conflating Ice Bolt 2's effectiveness with cold vulnerability.

For spells, use:

• Ice Bolt 2 on the Draconian Vultures when you can get it off. It'll help burst them down faster than wands will, and from further away
• Chain Lightning on the boss until their stun gauge fills. This fight is one of the few times this spell actually stands out from the rest.
• Bone Channel 2 on the boss' back after they get stunned for Backstab damage
• Eternal Heal Channel to reduce the strain on your health potions when you can get it off

Remember to immediately dodge/blink anytime you catch fire. If you're playing co-op, make sure everyone else is also contributing to stun (e.g. parrying the meteors, using stun arrows)||

[sour rain]

tyty for the response, i will read up now

[gleaming musk]

The one caveat is that ideally the staff will have Mana Leech and an additional damage type other than Shroud, as the boss is immune (as you probably expect). From what I remember the boss is resistant to all other damage types, and I'm unsure if any of those resistances is lower. Farming to make sure you have enough spells/potions will have a bigger impact than your staff damage type

[sour rain]

idk if its mentioned in the guide yet since its work in progress, but any gems i should be using specifically here?

[gleaming musk]

I dont think I have that section filled out yet, but at that stage of progression the best staff gem is squarely Soul Reaping from HH Kindlewastes

Also one of the best ones for wands

It's kinda overpowered tbqh

[sour rain]

I will say maybe im probably trolling, im level 27 and the passive heal mostly outheals everything from the boss already. So far the furthest ive gotten the boss down to was half but thats like a 10 minute fight

[gleaming musk]

What difficulty are you playing on?

[sour rain]

whatever the default is, i would guess normal but i can check

[gleaming musk]

If your passive healing is doing most of the recovery work well enough, just make sure you prioritize the minions so you don't get overwhelmed. I believe they're scripted to spawn every time the boss gets up from stun

[flat spoke]

I absolutely hate this dragon, I've tried it so many times. Today I tried it about 15 times, 10 of them on super easy. So, I set everything related to the boss to 20-25% difficulty. I just can't beat it. As soon as a beam hits me, I'm dead within 3 seconds, even with 400% health.

I've already watched YouTube videos on how to kill the boss. But I just can't do it.

[flat spoke]

i...did....it.....

but a little bit cheating. because i stand outside on the mountains and shot with arrows xD

but yeah. finally i can go on

[finite birch]

I don't call that cheating I call it "creative problem solving"

If they don't want me to snipe things from far far away they shouldn't have given me a bow, a zoom, and the ability to get on top of very tall rocks 🤣

[spiral plinth]

IIRC the mage version is the easiest way to cheese it. Thats how I did it. It's been a really long time because I absolutely DESPISE that fight.

[spiral plinth]

You can't have a PVP consumable because the other party isn't consenting to PVP with that.

What you're suggesting is "I want to drink this potion to mess with other players."

[spiral plinth]

It would be better if the "survival" aspects of the game were better. I like the concept of durability but it's way too low. They measure hypothermia but hunger/dehydration aren't really tracked great

[runic tree]

Frankly if they don't want people cheesing that boss they need to make the arena less of a nightmare to fight in.

[finite birch]

IMHO, finding a clever way to beat something is as much gameplay as dying 50 times learning the attack rotation and gitting gud.

But also I'm old and can't be bothered

[runic tree]

I honestly couldn't imagine doing that boss as a pure melee build. My ranger friend spent almost as much time flying back as he did actually fighting because he kept flying back into the arena instead of hanging out on one of the nearby mountains like I did with my spells.

[drowsy hamlet]

I had issues where sometimes my glider would just fly straight down no mater what I did.

[wild cypress]

Waiting to bounce back his meteors as a sole source of stunning him makes it take longer than my frost meter usually lasts lol.

[runic tree]

I repeatedly zapped him with lightning whenever he decided to fly close to me. Which gave us a few extra stuns quicker than we would've had otherwise.

[main dagger]

Did it as a pure melee build without leaving the arena. Go into the fight with as many buffs as possible (beef stew, open sandwich, elixir, vukah scroll, and milkshake were what I used), be perfect with parrying, and use a two handed weapon. Three or four downs is all it takes.

Dealing with the drakes is the only challenge imo. Grounding hook is essential and if you prioritize them as soon as they spawn you can take half of them out before the dragon breathes fire. Once that happens, duck to the other side of the arena with the glider momentarily to dodge before coming back for the rest of them.

[wild cypress]

I had a devil of a time getting my staff to reach him with Chain Lightning. From 90% of the volcano lip I couldn't get him targeted when he was in the center and when I could his up and down bobs during hovering would make him go in and out of range for me. I was left wondering if my character was perma-bugged lol.

[runic zealot]

I will fight this dragon pure Melee

[main dagger]

If you have any experience with souls games it shouldn't be too difficult.

[runic tree]

The spot I ended up in was close enough where he would occasionally fly up to me to try and blast me, which was when I zapped him with lightning spells. Otherwise the rest of the fight was me bombarding him from range with eternal fireball when he was focused on my friend.

[wild cypress]

Ah, the distraction tactic hehe.

[runic zealot]

I luv the souls games, there combat feels so weighty and good

But they are really hard

And super scary sometimes..

[steady crystal]

No, I am not not at all. I’m saying both would need to consume a consumable. I don’t think you’re reading what I put.

[strong kindle]

Ma'am! We don't use the 'O' word around these parts xD

[finite birch]

Beats the alternative 🙃

[elfin beacon]

But... Why? It should just be an option and server setting. No reason to clutter the in-game inventory, crafting menu, and loot drops with a multiplayer only, PvP specific consumables.
Again, it goes back to why don't we make every game option a consumable instead?

[sour rain]

@gleaming musk Just got to the || Water update. I wanted to ask what are the best pieces of gear / weapons / gems etc if u have time to share your guidance. Thank you for everything ||

[misty sedge]

I remember when Pokemon Sword and Shield came out and they added an in-game item that you had to use to adjust the game's volume settings. It was universally hated

[sharp current]

That sounds awful yeah

[winged spade]

The enshrouded servers I host will not be updated until tomorrow afternoon as I will be out of town until Tuesday afternoon. My apologies for the inconvenience. These server include Debs' Depot server, Team Biscuit, Kite Flight, Jason's Water World and C and P's new world.

[obsidian rune]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Enshrouded/comments/1her9yb/fell_dragon_youngling_in_30s_normal_difficulty/ late to the party, but melee was the easiest to down solo. It just has so much damage.

[gleaming musk]

For staves and wands, basically just stick to stronger versions of the same stuff. The most important things to note are:

• ||Shock and cold become more valuable than before. Many new enemies are inherently weak to shock, and the area still has Scavengers as well. Both damage types further increase in value due to Soaked being prominent. ||
• Multiple existing spells ||have a new upgrade worth getting||
• There are two new spells: ||Shock Wisp, which is terrible||, and ||Magic Shield, which isn't great but has some niche uses||
• There's a new noteworthy gem: ||Gem of Currents, which is very good but requires you self-inflict Wet to benefit. This is easy to do by carrying Water Balloons or a Portable Water Pump and shooting them at a wall or ceiling above your character. I recomend at least putting one of these on a shock wand to help burst down lizardmen. I started keeping a cold wand with this gem slotted as well.||
• For armor, ||the VWB gear annoyingly has Wet status duration reduction on it, which directly interferes with Gem of Currents usage. Up to you whether to upgrade or just stick with Albaneve. There are also a few unique pieces of lore armor from quests that boost specific elemental damage output.||

[wild cypress]

I never understood that last bullet point being in apparent direct conflict with the intended meta for Mages. Is there something I don't get?

[gleaming musk]

What is it you don't understand about it?

[wild cypress]

Why they did that lol. It's this complex meta where you gotta soak yourself, use the gem so they get soaked, then cast the right type of elemental damage to get max beneift. Wow, sounds like a lot of work but that also sounds really cool!

Then the clothing from that zone and the water-specific perks make the duration of that period much much shorter. Seems counterintuitive, like you should just...not upgrade to Veilwater armor or take Wet Dog/Soaked Dog if you wanna use the whole zappy wet meta.

[gleaming musk]

Yeah, pretty much. Tbh I'd guess it's just an oversight. Even for players who don't want to be Wet, the armor effect is kinda meaningless cause you can just hold a torch for a few seconds. It should really be Soaked reduction

[wild cypress]

The one upside is that thinking about this stuff reminds me of the hilarious absurdist comedy web series 2 Wet Crew.

[mighty lodge]

Is shock wisp that bad? I've used it before and have gotten decent damage numbers out of it. Not sure how useful it is in a pure mage build, but I know it scales with level and I've gotten 600 ticks out of it when using it in a melee hybrid build. It's good for the dragon 'cause you can drop it as it lands and it hits for around 3k a hit while you melee it. That was without using a soaked gem setup, but it's been a while since I've tested it, correct me if I'm wrong.

[gleaming musk]

It's not as bad as some spells, but the extremely short duration, mid single-target DPS which you have no control of the targeting for, and the likelihood of whiffing usually mean it's not worth the overhead to swap to, cast, and then swap back.

Using it against the dragon makes some amount of sense given the dragon's vulnerability to shock, but even then you still may be better off just going straight for Bone Channel 2 backstabs

[haughty charm]

So are there mage builds that carry a melee weapon for merciless attack. Swapping when an enemy is stunned close?

I did it at low level but I was wondering if it was still useful at high levels.

[mighty lodge]

Ah ok. I've never actually played pure mage and mostly used shock wisp as an opener since it's one of the only non channel spells you can cancel the end lag of by dodging. Whenever I'm using pure magic I mostly just use shroud beam channel or chain lightning.
Two questions about using bone channel on the dragon though:

1. Can you one cycle the dragon with bone channel on normal? What about on survival?
2. Would pre-firing a wisp while he's in the falling animation and then firing bone channel off also be more effective?

[gleaming musk]

Plenty of people play with hybrid builds, but they are suboptimal because stats, gear, and the skill tree largely emphasize staying in a single lane

[gleaming musk]

1. By "one cycle", I'm assuming you mean kill in a single stun. The boss has way too much HP and the stun window is way too small for this on Normal. Survival, even less so. More realistic is to expect 4-ish on Normal unless you fumble the positioning.

2. If you can manage that, then sure. In my experience, that's unrealistic to attempt due to needing time to position for Backstab. Though, my experience fighting him is largely in co-op where positioning & aggro is less predictable.

[mighty lodge]

Multiplayer scaling makes a massive difference in his HP/stun values. In single player or on a server when no one's nearby it's decently consistent to kill him in under 30 seconds in one stun for me. When it becomes 2-3 players it takes me over 3 stuns + some extra arrows to kill him. I almost never fight him with the other players actually in the arena and engaging with the fight, so that's probably where the different views on the fight comes from.

[mortal marsh]

are there any dedicated servers or anything for leveling up characters quick? I want an extra character to test out some builds in light of the new update today

[undone mist]

Is there actually multiplayer scaling in the game? I keep reading mixed information about this and my understanding has been that there isn't? I've played with the same settings with 2-5 players and player count hasn't seemed to have had any impact on enemies. We scaled boss health to maximum because they were dying so quickly when we were 4-5 players and wish we could increase it even more

[pallid panther]

You could visit a resource server and just loot all the xp scrolls there

[mortal marsh]

its painful to run through them all but it works

[outer mist]

I’m looking for some fresh build recommendations for a strictly solo playthrough. None of my friends play this game, so I'm flying solo and I really need a build that can handle the difficulty spike on its own.
I’ve already experimented with the standard Battlemage, Barbarian, and Bow-focused builds, so I’m looking for something different this time. I need a build that has a good balance between survivability and damage so I don't spend 10 minutes on a single mob, but also don't get one-shotted.

[mortal marsh]

well thats the thing, until the update happens today there are only slight variations to those builds. Instead of two handed weapons you can opt for the one handed melee bonuses, i posted the other day about a "paladin" build i theory crafted that can use one or two handed weapons, has all 3 auras, and has all the skills that grant a stat boost based on the level of the flame. Keeping wands and staves in the back pocket for pesky enemies / healing

but as it stands, every option is: Staff spells, wand focus, heavy melee, tanky melee, bow, dagger

Bow imo is by far the strongest, but all of them are really god

[outer mist]

tbh i like the bow and 2h build

[mortal marsh]

with the build i mentioned if you're playing solo you can take points out of the nemesis skills and the martyr skill and add for more damage in things like Bash, or opt for some utility in the survival tree but you wont have enough points to get the extra food buff

you can try the one handed melee stuff or daggers/bow mix, but go deep into the beastmastery tree. its strictly worse than the other builds but can be fun seeing Vukah and animals fight with you

[outer mist]

oo

xmm

daggers/bow sound fun i think

'tbh never read the beastmaster path look fun

[mortal marsh]

theres a node in beastmaster that gives your next bow attack a 50% damage boost after you attack (or crit? cant recall) with a dagger attack

[mild saffron]

Is it possible to see the new skill tree? Or will we have to wait for release?

[mortal marsh]

but again bear in mind the update today will overhaul the skill trees and combat as we know it

[mortal marsh]

best you can do is watch one of the videos they put out that gives a sneak peek into the tree

[mortal marsh]

yep thats the one

[mild saffron]

aitait, guess ill have to be patient instead lol

[outer mist]

is it today ? The update

[mortal marsh]

pray that the devs have the best cups of coffee this morning and can push the update fast as hell

[mortal marsh]

yes

[outer mist]

well thinking to strat fresh so maybe gonna wait

[mild saffron]

praying hard

[outer mist]

or just start now fresh and unlearn all im not gonna be far

[mild saffron]

i guess this is the channel if we wanna theorycraft builds/try shit out?

[mortal marsh]

ive been going to a public resource world and spamming hundreds of exp scrolls to get a character to max level to do some testing, granted i would then need to clear all the shroud roots for max points

[outer mist]

nah is not fun if you do it like that but if you do it for testing im ok whit it !

[mortal marsh]

trust me, its not fun sitting here spamming 1440 exp scrolls at a time

but i dont have a world i can just run into and level up in

[outer mist]

yea fair

[faint hatch]

Do we have any idea what time the update is scheduled?

[shell zephyr]

Between now and the devs going home.

[spiral plinth]

this video is up https://youtu.be/2VpK3uvi7rU?si=4a2Xg4Z-Oyl4aOfc

The dagger backflip attack and stealth system are super cool

I will actually run a dagger build

[haughty charm]

ohh, nice post

[marble olive]

Did they say anything about the player finally having poise so I don't get staggered by a damn beetle while wearing full plate?

Because that was incredibly annoying.

[simple terrace]

that wouldnt bother me so much if blocking interrupted your attack but blocking was so inconsistent and delayed it wasn't even worth doing last time i played.

[ruby meteor]

Heavy Attacks have poise

[main dagger]

Haven't played the update yet. Did they fix the parry power on the guard of the north greatsword?

[cyan swallow]

I hope the release makes the healer skill line worth taking.

Some easy suggestions would be adding a skill node that converts overhealing to barrier shields, or giving some way for healers to damage boost an ally.

[onyx kite]

Why do I have to wait seven hours to look at the new skill tree!? Damn work! 😭

[main dagger]

I relate heavily. I'm also at work.

[teal dragon]

I've been so KEEN to look through the skill tree, and now that I've given it a gander, here are my first thoughts, covering what I can see and based on my understanding:

The Good:

• Dagger perks are now in the assassin tree as they should be, FANTASTIC change.
• Sneaking/Sneak attack perks are in the assassin tree too, perfect.
• Most of the things you can level up, now go further than the original single level of the perk went.
• Generally balancing changes to perks are healthy, some nerfs and some clever buffs like adding unarmed damage after begone
• It's awesome they added special abilities to the damn tools. Didn't expect it, welcome addition, can't wait to try them!
• "Kick" looks AWESOME.
• What is here is almost all good, the "bad" things are just what were NOT added...

The Bad:

• No blocking perks. Super duper disappointed that they don't seem to allow for a tanking fantasy, lame.
• Nemesis nerf (assuming I understand it correctly) I get, but again, it's preventing that tank fantasy which is sorely lacking now.
• The existence of Blessed Arrows I think means we'll still see rangers stun-locking enemies at range too much. Maybe this isn't bad, but I see it as a bit of a balancing issue.

The Ugly:

• "Veiled Vigor"... you're kidding me right? A perk that gives you maximum hp based on your dexterity, an carbon copy of the "Athlete" perk in tree that it actually makes sense for? This has to be a placeholder, there is no way the devs thought it was fitting for the "Assassin" archetype's CORE perk, basically forced to be taken in the middle of the tree... to give a flat bonus to it's max hp.
  Instead of that, I think it would be a lot more sensible for it to be evasion, or if that's too dice-rolly, a sort of 'glancing blow' feature.
  Make it so there's say, a 10% chance to reduce damage by 35% or something. Make it actually fit the archetype of an Assassin. Come on even the name of the perk is just a bit silly. This perk needs to be totally redesigned, goodness.

So overall, really excited to see what progression feels like now! I think with the exception of that very very bizarre perk, the assassin tree is SO much more fitting of the archetype instead of the dagger perks being locked away in beastmaster.

Definitely gotta give the new special abilities and KICK a try to see how they feel. In general for combat too with all these additions.

[modern shard]

unarmed buff?? can i be a mystic monk now??

[dense cliff]

Are magic spells like Bone Channel fixed with this update? Can't find anything regarding it on changelog.
So far I had trouble with spells not doing any damage, even when they visibly hit the target. AoE was basically the only thing that always worked.

[marble olive]

I keep getting the feeling the devs don't know how to make a good skill tree with sensible themes.

The old assassin tree was genuinely nonsensical, this is an improvement but some choices are still baffling.

[thin trout]

how are you guys feeling about the tuned down "warping"?

[teal dragon]

I genuinely don't want to be rude, they clearly have some really good things here.

But uh, this is baffling. It's the most centered, perk in the entire tree, the pivotal connection to the upper and lower zones... and they chose something that does literally nothing but increase your maximum hp based on your dexterity? What fantasy are we fulfiling here, a beefcake rogue? An assassin who faces their problems face-on? This MUST have been a placeholder that slipped through. But if so, goodness they need some quality assurance people to look over things before they are released.

If it IS deliberate... then yeah I don't know. This is the most out of place perk I've seen in my life.

Flat evasion, glancing blow mechanic, dodging an attack gives mitigation for next damage, backstabbing gives temporary reduction/evasion, higher dodge chance while sneaking, or even just an i-frame boost or something. There are so many options here that would fit the fantasy.

But yeah I'm not here to just complain, it's just, I do want to very vocally voice my opinion about this early.

No disrespect to the devs, there's a lot here that looks awesome and I can't wait to try it out.

[leaden pivot]

i wanna make a dagger tank now

[teal dragon]

Seems the devs want you to as well xd

[cedar ravine]

Maybe you havnt been playing a dagger build? Most dagger players were running part warrior gear for the tanky chest. But that memo evidently never made it to the dev doing gear changes, so I guess this is the best we get instead and time to ditch our melee tank gear for health on chest and crit on melee. TBH tyhis is rpaidly becomming the 3rd update in a row that is basically just a massive nerf.

[leaden pivot]

but yeah if it conflicts with another type of build maybe they can change it in the future

or offer an alternative

certainly no joke to make a skill tree like this

[teal dragon]

I have played a dagger build, why do you think im so vocal about the assassin tree haha.

My issue here has nothing to do with the balancing. It's the class/role fantasy. I'm making a design critique of having the core perk of the assassin tree give you, of all things, max hp.

[leaden pivot]

im liking this tree a lot more

[cedar ravine]

Well there is a difference betgween RPing and waving daggers around and killing stuff with them 😉 Was nice back we could kill stuff wiuth them and not be squishy,

[teal dragon]

Surviability is important, just do it in a way that fits the identity of the role, that's it

[cedar ravine]

This update feel like half the game was stuck in a blender and then tipped out over the floor...

[spiral plinth]

Well some of the itemization is weird. I can see a path to paladin tank

[limpid rivet]

Were the mage and wand changes enough to really make a difference using wands while leveling? Quick glance at the updated tree still looks like Ranger is top tier.

[spiral plinth]

Blood rage is worthless leveling past 1 for solo players.

[spiral plinth]

There's some decent self healing but it's pretty deep.

[spiral plinth]

Dagger builds shouldn't be tanky in any game though.

[teal dragon]

It's gonna suck for dagger users to try and get Battle Heal lol

[teal dragon]

https://giphy.com/gifs/omni-man-wectie-wectiee-eCbY7Vj4XXXHCbw3Yi

[cedar ravine]

Most were down that tree anyway

[teal dragon]

Oh actually it's only 2 redundant points to get there, not too bad

[cedar ravine]

Yes - i think they added an extra str (FFS!?!?) in the way.

[spiral plinth]

Health isnt mitigation. And that's not a lot. I think it just makes them non squishy for boss fights. I haven't really tested builds yet.

[teal dragon]

I'm just making a joke, I fully agree they shouldn't be tanky

[cedar ravine]

So far I seem to have lost about 300HP from somewhere - and that is despite sticking 3 points into this.

[teal dragon]

Health is tankiness, though

It's a necessary part of the two-part equation

It's fine, it's a placeholder, it has to be, it's a placeholder

It HAS to be

https://giphy.com/gifs/qd0VlZ9VCvY8hbkMfq

[trim trail]

Did the new updated skill tree increase the amount of stats you can get from them? STR/INT/WIS and so on. Or same as before? At work and cant check myself unfortunately

[teal dragon]

From what I saw, seems about the same

[trim trail]

Dang, ok. Was hoping for more, but will have to see once home later if other new things added will compensate

[cedar ravine]

I think vigor may to make up for pushing thick skin out of pratical reach for non warriors

[teal dragon]

Anyway yeah, these are my thoughts #combat-and-skills message

I'm not gonna lie, I've lost a little hope, literally just due to that perk. It's so absurdly out of place that it actually makes me think there is a different fundamental vision for the game. But HEY, maybe not, it's gotta be a placeholder. I'm gonna go to sleep, dreaming about how it's a placeholder now.

[glass ferry]

Huh, so, in your opinion, you think that the assassin tree shouldn't have any hp boosts? Or I guess I'm just trying to understand why that node bothers you so much.

[cedar ravine]

I think the problem is it in the direct path to graceful stride. A pure bow user may not want it. A dagger use will absolutely want it. (I am bow/dagger hybrid, so it doesnt bother me)

[glass ferry]

I guess I don't entirely understand why you wouldn't want it. Isn't it just a buff to your character?

[cedar ravine]

It depends on whether you wanted to spend that 2 points on something else.

[elfin quail]

new updates buffed healing LIKE CRAZY

[teal dragon]

Okay well now I gotta reply,

No, of course not. That's what levels in constitution is for. There's literally an identical perk on the other side in the athlete tree, it's identical for strength! But it fits that fantasy, because strength has slower weapons, you're expected to take hits, dexterity is not. Assassin's are literally, by definition, designed not to take hits. You should not be solving for a problem (max HP) that doesn't exist in the archetype.

However. Survivability is important and I get that. That's why, I gave a ton of suggestions for what could be an interesting and unique way to fulfill your goal, which I assume is survivability, without just tacking on a duplicate perk that has no place in the centre of the assassin tree.

[cedar ravine]

Just dont do a blizzard and add in hit/miss style dodge - we all hated that then and thankfully they eventually scrapped it.

[teal dragon]

You are fundamentally missing the point. It's not about how good or bad the perk is. It's that the fundamental design of it, is completely antithetical to the role of the rest of the tree. Everything is about critical hits, sneak attacks, dagger stuff. Max HP has absolutely nothing to do with any of it and having it scale off dexterity doesn't make it any better.

[modern shard]

veiled vigor would be neat if it was like, %less damage per point while in stealth or something. hlp to mitigate surprise atatcks or traps. etc etc

[simple grotto]

As a dagger main, I appreciate having this as an option in the assassin tree - sometimes damage is unavoidable, and it's nice to not be one shot

[modern shard]

or like reduced regeneration time when un noticed.

[glass ferry]

I understand what you're saying, you think it's not thematic to the tree. I get that, but also, I think the node exists to make the tree well rounded. At least with the current design of Enshrouded, the POE-style ranger where you're automatically dodging 90% of hits isn't really a thing. I think they threw in a little HP into the tree to stop the class from feeling too squishy.

[teal dragon]

If people want constitution... They have access to it in other trees! If they want to have a "well rounded" build then go to the tank tree and pick up some points there!

Why are you balancing the assassin tree as if it's in a vacuum? I'm not suggesting dodging everything, the numbers I gave were a 10% chance to prevent 35 damage, a "glancing blow". That equates to 3.5% HP increase. It does the thing you want, but in a way that is thematic. If you don't think it's thematic to the tree, surely you can think of other ways to solve the problem in ways that are.

[simple grotto]

But the other skill scales on strength, which makes it harder to achieve for a dagger build

[cedar ravine]

Starting to really hate these change - forced into using target locking to do what i used to do manually? FFS!!!!! Crash down now buried in a tree I never cared about. My old build and play style is utterly destroyed.

[hasty barn]

Not even sure what to use my skill points for now. x_x

[teal dragon]

Don't fall for audience capture. I beg you. People here will agree with whatever you say. But this is, I'm sorry, it's a bad design decision and you know it.

[cedar ravine]

I would rather it just got rolled back. I think maybe healing seems better, but all 3 build on each fo my class seem less effective and my hybrid ranger is just f*****

[modern shard]

rememeber they also added upgrades to armors and rings.

so some of the power was pulled form the tree and added there to support builds.

there may be builds that are viable nwo that werent before, or it may jsut take upgraded armor laon side the new tree to feel the same a sold.

[glass ferry]

I'm aware that feedback we get is always biased, I guess I'm just trying to understand why this specific node is drawing such an emotional reaction out of you. I can see what you mean that it's not entirely thematic to the rest of the tree, but... I guess I'm just surprised that the thematics of a single node are upsetting you so much. It feels like I'm missing something lol

[modern shard]

the update s hours old. gve it time to settle in befor eknee jerking.

[cedar ravine]

Im sure there is other excellent stuff nothing to do with combat I aint looked at yet, just as there was in the other recent nerfs, but this was supposed to be about improving combat, not ruining it.

[teal dragon]

It's representative of poor design.

Poor design makes me lose faith in the developers. The fact that you're defending it even after admitting it's not thematic, is not a good sign.

So I'm upset because I love this game, I've been following it closely for a year, I'm active in the community, I follow all of your posts and updates, I read the patch notes and I love game design myself.

So yes, it is upsetting when I see poor design be rolled out and then overtly defended by the developer. I'm not concern trolling or whatever, I really care about your game.

[glass ferry]

I'm not defending it I'm just trying to understand why it feels like such poor design to you. I see this kind of design in lots of different games all the time. Even POE has health nodes in the assassin/ranger parts of their trees, and that game is considered to have one of the best skill trees in the entire industry

So I feel like I'm missing something if this is so upsetting to you

[elfin beacon]

Health nodes are literally the most basic of thing that should probably be in every combat focused part of the skill tree.

[modern shard]

and basing it off the stat assassins care about most is good.

[elfin beacon]

I think most people would prefer a flat survival increase like health over a RNG based thing like % chance to take less damage.
RNG survival mechanics are frustrating because when they fail you die and that doesn't feel good.

[teal dragon]

This isn't path of exile. In that, that game has THOUSANDS of options. You have half a few dozen meaningful perks in your tree. Your core perk, the very centre, you can't really avoid it, is about flat max HP. It doesn't make any sense. Is HP important, yes of course it is. It's a great thing you can easily diversify your build into the tank tree if you want to beef up.

The assassin tree node is perfect for an evasion perk.

[mild saffron]

hello guys anyone know if "Begone!" counts as magic weapon?

[modern shard]

And some one not stuck at work like me, let me know about the unarmed damage buff after it?

[mild saffron]

will do, bruteforcing a monkbuild rn

[teal dragon]

You're right. But that has nothing to do with why the centre of the assassin tree has a max HP perk. The thematically fitting survivability perk for rogues everywhere is not HP, it's evasion and dodging.

[glass ferry]

Ahh, so it's more the positioning of the node than the node itself, I gotcha. So you'd prefer that a keystone node like that be more thematic to the tree, and have a basic stat boost node like that positioned somewhere that it's more optional?

[west mural]

They added I-frames to dodges for everyone, what more are they supposed to do? I'd rather have the HP than some extra unreliable miss chance gimmick.

[cedar ravine]

I also feel like I need about 8-12 more points to functionally comparable to pre-patch due to now way more wasted point to get at harder to reach nodes with more useless stuff in the way.

[teal dragon]

Mostly, yes.

The theoretical existence of it I am still critical of. But it wouldn't be anywhere near as egregious if it wasn't dead centre, you know what I mean? It's like you're saying, the core identity of the assassin is... Max HP! Also you have to pick up this perk. You want to be a glass cannon? Not allowed, get max HP.

It feels forced and very counter intuitive. Is it strong? Yeah I mean everyone wants HP, but does it make thematic sense? No.

[modern shard]

TBF it is Max hp BASED on Dex.

its a small dilineation, but it is thematic.

[teal dragon]

That does not make it thematic

I hope I don't have to explain that

[modern shard]

Disagree.

[teal dragon]

You can literally scale, ANYTHING off of Dex. If your armor mitigation was scaled off Dex, in its place, would that make sense to you?

[mild saffron]

doesnt seem to work at all, i deal 0 dmg and nothing happens

[elfin beacon]

even with no longer having to buy all ranks of a skill to get through it?

[west mural]

You can easily come up with headcannon for why your dex stat means you can take more hits. Maybe you're really good because of your dexterity at making sure the hits don't hit vital areas.

[teal dragon]

Tacking on Dex scaling to max HP doesn't have anything to do with how you actually experience the perk. As soon as you are out of that perk tree, you're just beefier. That is it.

[cedar ravine]

I did that instead - whihc also make it all even more of a nerf.

[elfin beacon]

I mean, if it's a "useless" skill then it would be a buff, yes?

Less skill points wasted on useless skills.
I need to log in and actually look at the tree though.

[simple grotto]

As a casual player who just joined the server to monitor when the breaking bugs have been resolved in order to safely load the game - I'd much prefer the hp over a % or a new dodge/evasion ability. Sometimes you just want to hit things fast with a dagger and not worry about dying to an AOE or a missed parry or block. Some people want to use daggers and not be rolling around all the time.

[teal dragon]

The tank tree.

Go there

It exists for precisely this reason

Don't FORCE people to be a tanky assassin

I'm speaking with enshrouded fans

[elfin beacon]

I think you are getting really caught up on this specific thing.
No one is forcing you to be a tanky assassin. You can always skip that particular node, or don't use health food buffs, or don't pick up health nodes in other parts of the tree.

[solid dagger]

In this server? Noooo way

[west mural]

I still haven't logged on so exactly how much HP per Dex are we even talking about?

Mage also had a skill for HP for one of its stats but it was hardly enough HP to be particularly noticeable.

[teal dragon]

No up can't skip it 😭😭😭 it's right in the middle!!!!

You'd have to do a huge detour to avoid it!

[elfin beacon]

Why not? No one is forcing you to go all the way into the assassin tree to be an assassin.

[teal dragon]

Why do you guys say such silly things come on

???????

[elfin beacon]

Daggers have no skill point requirement to wield.

[teal dragon]

I'm being trolled

begone

Anyway I think I've made my point thank you Toast for speaking with me I appreciate it

[elfin beacon]

I'm soooo confused. If you don't like a node, don't take it. If you want less health, you can change the settings, use different armor, or don't use food HP buffs.
Nobody is going to agree with you to play exactly like you want to force others to play.

[teal dragon]

Gives me faith 👍

[barren flame]

the point is that if you want to avoid it you have to either spend 6 points in bows or 8 points on wands

[signal plaza]

Is there an evasion stat added in the update to account for the dagger users?

[elfin beacon]

As someone who is actually interested in trying a dagger assassin build for once, I am glad to hear there's a good hp perk in that tree so I am not super squishy without having to go into the tank tree (which isn't neccesarily an option until later game anyway).

[signal plaza]

(havent hopped on)

[coral juniper]

Ozcaty, I haven't read the entire thread. Is your arguments just that instead of max health or would have been more thematic to give them evasion or something in the assassin tree?

[barren flame]

sure, good for you. but if someone wants to play pure glass cannon (which is very common i'd imagine) and get as much dps as possible they HAVE to spend 2 points on hp which probably doesn't feel too good.

[barren flame]

it would be better to have a choice, make it so that you can either take hp or lets say crit chance per dex.

[elfin beacon]

I haven't looked in game yet, but yeah I can see that if all that skill does is increase hp and nothing else. Understandable.

[teal dragon]

Sir.

Right now you are forced to take max HP.

I am advocating, for that, not to be the case, because it doesn't fit the identity of an "assassin"... At all.

Please for all things holy actually understand what is being said here before you chime in.

[coral juniper]

I mean, aren't some level of mandatory nodes guaranteed?

[teal dragon]

Yes!

That is what I'm saying

[coral juniper]

Seems reasonable. Max HP is kinda boring

[teal dragon]

I'm so glad you agree 🥲

[signal plaza]

It'd be super cool to have evasion in the game for assassins! Would make them feel more nimble :3

[elfin beacon]

If it was going to be an evasion thing, it should be something that boosts your dodge roll or gives you iframes during heavy attacks or something. A RNG based survival mechanic is boring and frustrating.

[signal plaza]

And evasion could be a bit different than most games, like instead of dodging the attack 100% it may just reduce damage at a threshold until you reach higher evasion :3

[elfin beacon]

Well that's just called armor at that point.

[coral juniper]

But at the same time, if it is basically a mandatory node due to placement. I can see why they made it super generic. Like it would suck to have a mandatory node be something niche

[teal dragon]

This is what happens when you jump into a convo without reading what I said earlier. I agree true evasion can be a bit dice-rolly, so a sort of "glancing blow" where you have a higher chance to mitigate a percentage of the damage, was my suggestion.

[elfin beacon]

That's literally the RNG based survival mechanic I don't want.

I want to avoid damage through my own dodges and tactics, not because the game decided I avoid the damage.

[teal dragon]

If you want max HP and flat mitigation what is stopping you from putting points into the tank tree? I'm genuinely curious.

Please answer that

Or guardian. I think it's called now

[coral juniper]

This is sorta what I meant when I said make the mandatory travel nodes generic. Dodge/evade is a polarizing play style. Some people love it and some people hate it, but more HP is just generically good

[teal dragon]

Why would an assassin, in any world, be a build for flat mitigation and HP?

[tired pagoda]

I do think Max HP is generic and boring. I don't know that I think it's not thematic. But I'd probably have to get into the tree and look at it to understand more

[elfin beacon]

I mean, what is stopping you from not putting points into the tank tree if you want to be a glass cannon? A single health node isn't going to make you an actual tank, it just gives you some extra health so you're not at risk of getting one shot as much.

[teal dragon]

?????

You just totally ignored my question and responded with nonsense