other-games

[tranquil cove]

even though it's a not 1 for 1 genre comparison, it is a zombie games comparison

but still those games have extraction elements

just not all elements

[timber prism]

Having played both i dont see the comparison aside from zombies.

The flow of the games are completely different

But are forced into a running into a zombie comparatively fast in both

But yeah. If you watch more videos of Nakwon there are timers. Like personal escape extraction points and various public extraction points on separate timers. Similar to Arc Raiders

Various locations in the map with key points to visit where you can find mats

Also friendly fire which is fun

[tranquil cove]

this discussion depends on how you define the genre, and how loosely or strictly you adhere to the rules of the genre. lots of games have extraction elements, and could be called extraction games. you don't need EVERY single element to be an extraction game, like timers.

that being said, if you feel you do. then you define it more strictly, so you will just disregard what i am saying entirely. which is your prerogative.

either way, there are extraction games that don't have an emphasis or feel on exploration as much as i got from nakawon from just watching the gameplay footage. it seems more like a coop exploration game first, more than anything else.

[timber prism]

Having actually played it im just going to disagree with you. No one calls L4D and B4B extraction games

Your goal is not to extract with goods with loot drop on death.

[tranquil cove]

yeah but ive seen other extraction games and i never felt like they were exploration games

this game i do

[timber prism]

Which ones?

[tranquil cove]

they were just find loot on a map games

[timber prism]

Thats literally what you do in that game

[tranquil cove]

you could just list extractions yourself, instead of asking me

[timber prism]

You are the one telling me you don't think you do that

[tranquil cove]

i dont have an answer for you. i've just seen others

if i had names, id tell you names

they were forgettable

[timber prism]

But extraction games where im exploring looking for loot to extract

Escape from Tarkov

Arc Raiders

Arena Breakout

[tranquil cove]

there was 1 with futuristic enemies, and foggy map or something, in some ruins

[timber prism]

Its a pretty common theme of the genre like I said

[tranquil cove]

flying drones

[timber prism]

Arc raiders

Which is super similar to this game which I mentioned multiple times lmao

You are exploring different maps and buildings to complete quests and different buildings focus on different possible maps

Mats*

It also has timers and keys to find in the maps to get access to different areas

Like if I had to name another extraction that it was the most in common with.. it would be that exact game

[tranquil cove]

i don't know if it was arc raiders. the point is you're just here to disagree with me, rather than listen. i said how the game feels to me. definitely more exploration in nakawon than any other extraction shooter. and it's probably largely due to the stealth and level design, and how loot is placed, and even the theme of the game.

the other games are just objectives on a map to run some vault to get loot, they are gamey

this game wanted to make an atmosphere of something

[timber prism]

Im just telling you to watch more videos because you obviously have zero knowledge of what you are watching

Im just letting you know the actual mechanics of whats happening

[tranquil cove]

the games were just forgettable

the names mean nothing to me, i'd have to find the footage i saw

and then walk you through why its a trash exploration game compared to nakawon

do you have a few hours?

[timber prism]

Like you didnt even know the game was an extraction game with timers

[tranquil cove]

that doesn't invalidate my point about exploration

lean less into discrediting people and more into the topic they present

[timber prism]

You are claiming it has more exploration than other extractions and couldn't even name a single one that was less exploration focused

[tranquil cove]

than other extractions i saw yeah

[timber prism]

And then told me im just disagreeing and forced me to tell you the games that do have just as much exploration

😂

[tranquil cove]

i already explained why nakawon is more exploration heavy

[timber prism]

So im just gonna say watch more videos of the genre and you will see how similar they are in the exploration aspect

[timber prism]

Ill be back next week so you got plenty of time and we can revisit this if you like

[tranquil cove]

in arc raiders do you carry a large backpack?

maybe the game i saw was forever winter

[timber prism]

Various sized backpacks depending on your loadout yeah

[tranquil cove]

nah not interested, i think im knowledeable enough on this topic, and i think i am correct about exploration.

[timber prism]

Well you aren't

[tranquil cove]

i am

[timber prism]

Not really

[tranquil cove]

yeah i already thoughtfully explained why nakawon is an exploration game

[timber prism]

You dont even know what you can do in arc raiders for instance to compare it

[tranquil cove]

it just happens to be in the extraction genre

[timber prism]

They also have similar loot placemenr

[tranquil cove]

in arc raiders you go to the same tunnel to farm loot

it's too gamey to be an exploration game

btw this is the other extraction game i saw

https://youtu.be/_ffCIxFhgbU

[timber prism]

You can do the same thing in Nakawon

[tranquil cove]

nakawon is more explorey than this one

[timber prism]

Gotcha. I would really need to play it myself to compare it but at a glance I did see them exploring areas for loot to complete objectives

The AI looked really really bad tho

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/X1RhVu30pQM?si=5-4lv7vP5pCqgBtY

https://youtu.be/uy3MKlqkLGU?si=EhueCe-e8slJhiBw

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/VWIw_f8e9Pg?si=1cBA935PIsGrAxsm

[tepid wadi]

I've been hearing mixed things from reviewers. Some love it, some hate it. Force seemed to really like it

[finite saffron]

Force loves everything to be fair lol

Which I love about him, but it doesn't always make him a reliable source

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/jaAEKYGnxrA?si=wvT7SqLh0Y60euAu

[tepid wadi]

Yeah I like his optimism

[misty arch]

thats the nice thing about Force. He likes and dislikes things in the same game and is honest and upfront about it. He will then explain why he likes or dislikes something. He doesnt follow the bullet point remarks that a lot of other sources do.

[tranquil cove]

force loves everything?

[undone cliff]

I honestly think that Crimson Desert is going to a hit with the BDO crowd and a 50/50 split with everyone else

[tranquil cove]

reminds me of paris hilton who was called to be a judge on some show and only gave 10s

retro rewind is out

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3552140/Retro_Rewind__Video_Store_Simulator/

Steam

Retro Rewind - Video Store Simulator

Relive the golden ages of video rentals by opening your very own video store. Rent, sell, organize and build your business from the ground up. Hire staff, manage your team and become the best rental destination in town!

…

Price

$15.92

Recommendations

718

i got it, it's pretty good

14 hours in, level 15 (out of 20+), 500 vhs (1000+), and only 1 section of the store unlocked out of 6+

so there seems to be enough content

[ornate fractal]

Watching Jerma play made me wish list this.

[tepid wadi]

Force doesnt love everything, persay, he just approaches everything optimistically. He is good at calling things out that arent fun, but he goes into it with a positive attitude

[obtuse scroll]

He is optimistic, but if you listen to what he says about Crimson Desert at first, he basically says if you like story, this one is crap for you lol.

[ornate fractal]

My friend's game Mr. Sleepy Man finally released. It's like a somnambulant, silly, psychedelic Mario Galaxy. It's also on sale.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1657740/Mr_Sleepy_Man/

Steam

Mr. Sleepy Man

In Mr. Sleepy Man, you play as a sleepy guy who's up way past his bedtime and out of control!

The citizens of Bedtime Town don’t stand a chance! Make a mess of everything you find and turn the entire town against you!…

Price

$16.99

Recommendations

243

[limpid quarry]

I am ready @ivory cove show me the UE5 thing

[ivory cove]

Like look at it

The shadows dont pass naturally they paint themselves onto walls.

After images of ur own character

And with the bow too

It just smears

The light smears onto the walls

The shadows shift unnaturally when u look around.

And that first pillar wall at certain angles jus sparkles with light particles

[limpid quarry]

huh... that does kinda happen in Enshrouded too though, just to a lesser extent

[ivory cove]

This only ever happens woth UE5

[ivory cove]

Yeah see

[limpid quarry]

that's definitely a lot worse in your example though

[ivory cove]

I've always wondered WHY tho

Yeah

It's so jarring-

@daring wave

Look!

[limpid quarry]

it makes me wonder if there's like... rendering/lighting engines and some just happen to do that specific thing, or maybe people are bad at coding their lights or something

[ivory cove]

Someone get a dev here to explain

[daring wave]

Have you tried screwing around with the lighting/shadow setting?

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/9J9kP4VIAI0?si=sSs015Zo83kz9w1t

[ivory cove]

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 is 50% off rn!

If u want a fun realistic mid-evil sim game it's well worth the buy

My favorite thing in the game was making potions and perfumes and selling them :3

[tranquil cove]

for me its 40$ steep price

and i want to wait for a bunch of other games to come out that will probably be cheaper

so kingdom come deliverance 2 pushed back to next year, and if they come out with a 3, then never 😄

[ivory cove]

Like why does this happen

@feral lily

Why does it flicker

Its literally just a cave wall-

[daring wave]

PS is junk

[ivory cove]

That's so uncanny 😭

[ivory cove]

Nu uh

Is tots gooderest

[feral lily]

RT noise. Some rays are hitting the cave wall and the denoiser is trying to do its thing, then in the next couple frames no rays hit the wall and it goes dark again.

[daring wave]

go to performance mode

[ivory cove]

It is in Performance mode

😭

[daring wave]

Sux to be playing that game then

what game is it?

[ivory cove]

Today I discovered, I despise Raytracing

Unless u have a Nvidia thingy

[daring wave]

It's not that tech's fault

[ivory cove]

I blame the tech

Wait what tech am I blaming?

[daring wave]

Well, you can do that but it won't help fix the problem

[ivory cove]

How do I disable the Raytracing mode

They probably made the game with Raytracing from the get go

[daring wave]

you'd have to look at in game settings.

[ivory cove]

I did

There nothing for it

What is HDR?

Is that also gonna try muck up the visuals?

[daring wave]

High definition

[ornate fractal]

High dynamic range - a color depth mode which requires a 10 bit monitor to display correctly and is slightly more taxing.

[ivory cove]

[feral lily]

High Dynamic Range > darker darks, brighter brights.

[ivory cove]

That sounds like as bad aa the Raytracing

[daring wave]

What game is that??

[ornate fractal]

Fun fact, most monitors marketed as HDR aren't really capable of displaying it fully. Monitors Unboxed on YouTube (and Hardware Unboxed) have lots of deep details on it. HDR isn't bad, it just requires the right hardware in your graphics pipeline.

[feral lily]

Far from it.

Anything below 1k nits peak brightness and mini-led backlight dimming zones looks... weird tho.
Or OLED HDR 400 True Black.

[daring wave]

my monitor is max 600 lol. no really worth a lot

[feral lily]

On your cheapass TV from 2019 HDR probably looks worse than SDR tho.

[feral lily]

Depends how many dimming zones you have tbh.

[ornate fractal]

Snode knows his stuff.

[feral lily]

[daring wave]

no idea. I never bothered to look. it's getting kinda old, there's a few dead pixels creeping into in slowly now too.

still looks good to my old eyes

[feral lily]

dead pixels. My nemesis. Once I find one I can never unsee it

[daring wave]

mines had one ever since I got it. I SHOULDA RETURNED IT, BUT..... MEH

It's the the top corner of the screen so it's not too noticeable, unless the game is VERY dark

tiny green specks

[feral lily]

Id stare at that nonstop

I could never

[ornate fractal]

My cousin played bass for Tiny Green Specks in the 90s.

[daring wave]

meh, I'll live

Acer Predator 34"

Curved

It's been pretty good overall

[ornate fractal]

That was the one back in the day. Nice.

[daring wave]

yeah, cost me like $1600 when I bought it 😭

[ivory cove]

🐲

[feral lily]

Oh, are we monitor bragging now?

Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 as primary, Gigabyte Aorus FO32U2 secondary and for Playstation use.

[ivory cove]

Wat makes u say its from 2019

[daring wave]

Thats Aussie dollaryDoos tho, not yanky bucks

[feral lily]

240Hz each.

[daring wave]

mines 180Hz. good enough

[feral lily]

just an example.

[feral lily]

Its not like any modern game can get that high without Framegen anyways lol

[daring wave]

Perfect for 1440P gaming

I never play 4K so.....

[ornate fractal]

144Hz Dell sale monitor for me lol. MSI 60Hz on the side in portrait mode for text/side viewing while I game.

[daring wave]

I have a second monitor I never use. it's this Asus thing I got for free from my work. it plugs in via USBC lol. works ok tho

just looks like an Ipad or something

[feral lily]

desk too small

[daring wave]

no, screen is too big lol

[feral lily]

I usually keep the secondary monitor off to avoid burn-in. Its an oled.

[daring wave]

is that 49inch?

[feral lily]

the left one? Yeah, thats the Neo G9, 5120x1440p super ultra wide 32:9.

its huge. And it has 2048 dimming zones. its awesome

[daring wave]

I was looking at the Samsung before I bought mine, but that curve.... it's too much for me, thats why I ended up getting the one I have

[feral lily]

the curve is perfect when you position yourself right infront of it. Anything off angle is weird.

[daring wave]

the first few days using mine I felt ill

I already get motion sickness, I was kinda worried that I wouldn't get used to it. luckily it didn't last long

[ornate fractal]

[jiggling Itcus]

[daring wave]

I'd never go back to a flat panel now tho. way more immersive with a curved screen

[ivory cove]

Thats too wide

Comically wide and its bendy xD

I think maybe it'd be good for one of those car games

With the driver seat views

[feral lily]

Its good for any game, I can see twice as much as normally.

[daring wave]

Too wide, maybe. but "bendy" is actually way better than flat

[ivory cove]

But my TV is biggerer

[feral lily]

sure, but its 16:9

[ivory cove]

I miss my old CRT tv

[feral lily]

4:3 wasnt great either

[daring wave]

yeah, I see you don't use the "full" screen for one image (at least in that pic)

[ivory cove]

It played Duck Hunt

2 keyboards and 2 mouses

[feral lily]

I only use the full screen for games yeah, I usually use the center of the screen as "one 16:9 monitor" and the left and right sides as half a monitor on each side basically

great for work too

[ivory cove]

Thats way to wide for me

[daring wave]

That I could deal with. wouldn't need a second monitor at all used that that. but gaming in 'full screen" like that? 😑 that'd be too much for me, and most games I imagine.

[ivory cove]

I like having everything in front of me without needing to look left or right

😭

[feral lily]

thats why I usually have the second monitor off, unless im working

[daring wave]

when I used my second screen it was below my main monitor. I liked that WAY better

[ivory cove]

The computer setup i use has 2 monitors and i jus use the second one for interweb tabs

Well.. i usually jus use my phone-

But it's still there

[daring wave]

this now lol

[feral lily]

wenn its properly supported, the HUD can usually be centered like it was a 16:9 screen so you dont have to look to the sides, its just for peripheral vision mostly

[ivory cove]

[daring wave]

Is it easy to adjust the possition and size of the main screen?

[feral lily]

In gaming or in work mode you mean?

[ivory cove]

Both?

[daring wave]

Like, you have it central now. could you use say one side for a game and the other for web page eg

not that you would game like that I imagine, but could you?

[feral lily]

well, not all games support the repositioning of the HUD. So theres that.

For work I use MS PowerToys, gives you custom zones you can put windows in and they just snap there. Grab window, hold shift, drop it and it gets put into the zone

Well.. you cant put the game into full screen then

but sure. There's also the "Picture by Picture" mode, essentially, you connect 2 cables instead of one, and the monitor then physically acts like 2 monitors if you put it into PBP mode

[daring wave]

Nice. that'd be super handy. I mean, not for games but for multitasking kinda deal

[feral lily]

I can never go back to 16:9 gaming I swear...

[daring wave]

As soon as the stupid AI bubble pops and prices return to normal, I think I'll upgrade everything. New PC, monitor...all of it... Death might happen before prices drop tho😭

[daring wave]

agreed

[ivory cove]

Its jus higher PoV?

FoV?

[daring wave]

inherently

[feral lily]

well... the FoV setting is the same, but you just see way more off to the sides

[ivory cove]

My friend always plays at max FoV

[daring wave]

same

I want ALL the picture

[feral lily]

So it doesnt distort the image

[ivory cove]

If its the same then turn ur FoV up too max

[feral lily]

if you turn up the FoV setting on a 16:9 you just get fisheye view

[ivory cove]

See behind u from in front of u :0

[feral lily]

Which is way worse than a wider screen

[ivory cove]

Yea

Thats what my friend plays on

It gived me headache jus watching him

[daring wave]

Yeah, noticed that was very bad when I started playing Atomfall

had to turn FoV down

Usually it's one of them settings I just max out automatically

[daring wave]

you gotta look at the screen from directly in front. if you're off to the side .....😣

[feral lily]

Theres also caculators as to what FoV you should set for it to be "natural"

[daring wave]

They aren't made for spectators lol

[feral lily]

Generally, for my screen here, its around 105°

[daring wave]

Ha!!

[feral lily]

Thats not FoV tho?

[daring wave]

yeah I just realised that lol

[feral lily]

Thats how many pixels compared to your screen res are rendered. Youre supersampling

[daring wave]

120...

[feral lily]

Not FoV either

[daring wave]

any more than that, at least in this game is .... uigh

wow. third times the charm lol

[feral lily]

You have a 21:9 right? That sounds about right then. 95 to 100° is the correct FoV for that screen without causing fisheye distortion

Im off to play some DS2 finally lol

then Grocery Shopping and then its Kiddo time for the weekend.

[daring wave]

Nice. enjoy...

[ivory cove]

DS2? As in Dark Souls 2?

I killed all the giants and white knights in that one watery place with dragon

That they stopped spawning

So I used the dark bone ash thingy to make em come back stronger.

And did it a second time-

[feral lily]

Death Stranding 2, I need a chill game for once.

[ivory cove]

Ohh

But Dark Souls 1 and 2 are as u say, chill games

Same with Elden Ring

Very relaxing

[feral lily]

🧌

[ivory cove]

https://youtube.com/shorts/0IIuzormxoA?si=5XMmTCLedHs3C-Fv

Digimon was better anyways u-u

[vague galleon]

it was.

[feral lily]

This game looks so good, wow.

[round beacon]

so Crimson Desert has its players major confused and doesnt make any sense -
rescued a cat, cleaned a chimney - met god and got gifted wings for my absolute legendary deeds 10/10

[feral lily]

Yeah Im waiting for a sale on that one.

[round beacon]

yeeehh.. doesnt seem to be worth the major pricetag for now - feels like someone went fever dream after playin assassins creed, zelda and some other stuff and decided to make a potporrie

[feral lily]

I mean, its a "fun first" kinda game if I get the vibe right.

[round beacon]

its major confusing first, it seems very directionless - which i get for some open world sandbx thing but if the game has a startup time of about 8 hours before anything makes sense to you or starts to be fun - thats not a good start for most players

[feral lily]

The studios MMO roots creeping in

Black Desert didnt make any sense either

[round beacon]

i mean it looks gorgues, and some of its smaller mechaniks do be nice, dont get me wrong - but the overall direction or super confusing non existant explanation of basic things.... mhhh...

[solid fossil]

Death stranding was not chill...

[feral lily]

It absolutly was, once you got the hang of it.

[solid fossil]

And then you get shot or bts try to take you to brazil

[feral lily]

Its not like you cant avoid that. You get the weather forecast and all. Avoid these routes and everythings chill.

[vague galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/crane-brazil-grab-poor-car-gif-17372636

[ivory cove]

How come i got to wings

This is not right

[tepid wadi]

I don't know how game devs keep forgetting that sandboxes are great but the player needs direction for how to navigate through them. Throwing them into a void and saying "have fun" doesn't work until after you've used the story to teach them where the fun is. The aimless part should come AFTER you've already taught them all the different fun stuff they can do.

[tranquil cove]

sounds like RD2 to me

game starts you off with a shootout then throws you into the world

it's pretty dumb.

[tepid wadi]

From the sounds of it, there's even less direction than RDR2 by a long shot

[tranquil cove]

rdr2 has direction when they throw you in, like quest markers, objectives etc.

but im still in an open world, and rode off opposite just because i could and then got annoyed 🤣 like the direction is so loose. go to town if you want or something it was.

im going to try RD2 again, but this time follow the directions to the letter

and see if i get into the game that way

[tepid wadi]

The story in RDR2 is supposed to be really good. I didn't get super far into it though

[tranquil cove]

i wish they did a story with create your own character

million dollar company they couldnt even do that simple thing

instead i have to play as somebody else

[tepid wadi]

Ehh, there are good reasons to use a set character. Especially for RDR2, where it's a prequel

[tranquil cove]

don't prequel

lol

make a new story, new character, character customization max

then i'll be invested

the only time set character games make sense to me is if its star wars and you are luke skywalker

i guess max payne was a set character

max payne the last set character game with a story i ever played?

hitman maybe

[tepid wadi]

I don't think single player RPGs especially HAVE to have a character creator, and adding a character creator in changes the way you have to build the story and the world. Having a set character allows you to place them in the world much more fluidly than character creation.

The only game I can think of that's done it well with a creator is Cyberpunk 2077

I also prefer one, but depending on the game I don't mind playing as a "main" character

[tranquil cove]

thats not true?

you can have a character created character in every single scene in RD2 easily.

[tepid wadi]

I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm saying it's easier to do

[tranquil cove]

why would you need to say that? of course doing less is easier to do

you only need to make and load in assets for 1 character and not 50 combinations or whatever

[tepid wadi]

Because you're complaining about them doing it? Saying "oh just make a character creator" like it's an easy implementation is a gross underestimation of how much work needs to go into character creation as a feature. It's not just building the creator, you have to realign the entire player experience.

[tranquil cove]

im complaining they are a million dollar triple A company and did less, yes

and made millions off the game, sounds like they could have taken the time, to do more.

but either way it was probably their preference to have 1 main character and a story... money, time, and easier.

i only bought RD2 because it was 5$ i think

i'd rather spend $40 on an indie developer anyway

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, but like if they were to spend the effort on character creation, they would have had to take time away from other features that made the game as good as it was. It's not like it's a zero sum game, especially for AAA development

[tranquil cove]

there's the 2 camps of game development. development of a game that is persistent. or finish the game, and move on. persistent development is either live service, EA (that takes a long time), in the rare case just a game that keeps getting added on to. you can still make tons of money developing the same game for years imo, provided you do it right and add the right things.

some people stop and make a sequel. others declare the game done, based on their arbitrary decisions of goals set out and met, (ie every human can have a differing opinion on this, but most aren't devs so their opinion doesn't count). and they make the next new game, because there's MORE money in it. so it's always just the pursuit of more money. people aren't satisified with enough money.

it's not as if RD2 sales stopped one day.

or that if they kept developing it they would go bankrupt. no. they would still make a lot of money.

[tepid wadi]

Sure, but with that point it makes more sense to invest in a character creator in a game that is going to continue to support. RDR2 was intended as a single serving game, once you finish it, you can go play RDR Online, where I believe you do create a character, but they were never planning continued development. If they'd been planning that, they probably wouldn't have made it a prequel.

[ornate fractal]

[Thelma Harper voice] Whuh-oh.
https://www.ign.com/articles/crimson-desert-players-think-theyve-found-ai-generated-art-in-game

[tepid wadi]

Okay, lots of those could be stylized, but this one is DEFINITELY AI art

Like oh my god that horse

[daring wave]

WAT!
You don't like rubber legged break dancing horses?

[tepid wadi]

It's one of those "the longer you look at it, the worse it gets" things

Like, aside from being AI art in general. How did that specific painting get past initial review?

It's terrible, lol

[ornate fractal]

Worrying that maybe there wasn't that degree of reviewing happening.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah. Some of the first images in the article are like "yeah okay, not horrible" but then you get to that one... wow

[tranquil cove]

im trying to grind through retro rewind while revisiting an old game i own megaquarium and hopefully beating it.

[vague galleon]

noooo horses totally... look like.... IS there even a horse in this picture?!

[frank sonnet]

honse

[vocal island]

Hello, I'm looking for 2 other player in possession of LOTR War in The North for the Strenght of Our Alliance achievement. Thanks in advance (:

[ivory cove]

How come nobody told me Counter Strike could be so cute and lovable!

https://fixvx.com/skinsmonkey/status/2035125033924805020?s=61

SkinsMonkey (@skinsmonkey)

Counter-Strike 2 ❌
Cute-Strike 2 ✅

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Mar 20, 2026, 10:43 PM

[misty arch]

heroes of might and magic but its in space
https://youtu.be/PQkdlLmUV2Q?si=VcFPOGRly0xJ11Kt

[misty arch]

https://www.ign.com/articles/minecraft-dungeons-2-revealed-with-fall-2026-launch

[ivory cove]

Is this dune?

[hollow crow]

Is anyone playing Marathon?

[daring wave]

Hell no!

[misty arch]

no, just didnt find it interesting.

[feral lily]

Death Stranding 2

[ivory cove]

This is such an amazing watch, an actual Professional Archeologist was so impressed by the world building and archeological design of Elden Ring's open world he go through using actual Archeological techniques and real world cultural reference and inspirations used.

I luv it so much, theres so much to learn about the world in-game and very much our very own world too!

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrxAMoEujZsuf8JjIRNKceTF1AJ7JGl9k&

[tranquil cove]

yeah i have to say RD2 is such a bad game

i'm convinced in my decision to quit it last time too

i keep going back to try replay that garbage thinking i made a misjudgement and then being vindicated lol

the game is just riddled with bugs, and user interface is garbage and clunky, pathing is always messing up, your character doing spins instead of changing direction normally. dumb port to PC with confusing buttons, and lots of missions/quests glitching or resolving in the worst way and needing to reload a save. trying to pick up revolver drops your current revolver? no way to store your current weapon or sell it first? and then if you leave that revolver you tried to pick up on the floor for 2 seconds, it disappears forever. lol

the game is like garbage stitched together like frankenstein

definitely still belongs in the list of games i wish i never owned

[feral lily]

Are you talking about Red Dead Redemption 2?

[tranquil cove]

yeah

like its not 1999, i already went through 10 years of buggy games and working hard to achieve things in a game. from a million dollar company and more modern game, i expect a way better UI and controls.

game can have a good story, or be good in other areas, but if the player is fighting with the game half the time to do anything it wont matter. stupid devs honestly.

[feral lily]

Huh.. okay... I am so not agreeing with your opinion (but hey, thats what opinions are).
Yes, I get the point with the UI, but the world feels so good/rewarding to explore.

[tranquil cove]

yeah i would agree, if they had a UI that helped me explore instead of made everything annoying rofl

during the main mission, i was supposed to go in the tavern, but accidently skipped the tavern, went into sheriff office and got a bountry quest. i decide to reload save, and go in tavern, do some main mission stuff, i go back to the sheriff office, and the bounty quest isnt there at all. THE F IS THIS GAME.

and the sheriff threatens to kick me out just for standing in the office and greeting him

the game is beyond dumb

[feral lily]

I clocked about 500hrs in RDR2 so I think I kinda got it working for me. Somehow.

[tranquil cove]

i should just play 500 hours and come up with 5000 things like this

thats sometimes what i do with games i dislike

just to prove to people why they suck

[feral lily]

Not what Im trying to say

[tranquil cove]

dude everytime i get off and on my horse my loadout changes

i research this on google, its a 7 year old bug that the devs REFUSED TO FIX

rofl, trash company

i read people literally writing they quit the game because this bug is so annoying

maybe i just dont have the patience to save scum a game with 1 million loading screens, and pauses. and menus either.

its way smoother to play fallout new vegas, or skyrim

[feral lily]

Well... uhm... Yeah, Im on mobile, slightly tipsy and Im just gonna leave it here.. neighter in the mood to argue nor to reseach issues tbh 😅

[tranquil cove]

RD2 literally wastes your time

i hate design philosophy in games, where they waste your time, because there is a delay to load any menu, because they want to show some flashy graphics or for whatever reason.

[feral lily]

I would strongly oppose that statement in general. That is an opinion.

[tranquil cove]

it's not an opinion, loading story, and player isn't seemless

the game can have a good world, good story, good graphics, we can say these are 9/10, but when it comes to UI? 6/10, and when it comes to quest reliability? or whatever, i can't think of the word for it. but quests being consistent in a way where bugs don't make them unpredictable, or they dont disappear from the gameworld for no reason. the quest design is probably 7/10. the game is probably 7/10 at best. but i personally think its 6/10 because the 9/10 world or story doesnt make up for bad UI and slow menus.

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddeadredemption/comments/bg4hhm/finally_playing_rdr2_ive_never_played_a_game_with/

lol

its not rocket science

seems when more people share the same "opinion" there might be a kernal of truth there

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/200179-red-dead-redemption-2/77182907

i dont know if i was a game dev, i wouldn't leave criticism up like this for 7 years. i would fix my game. a game would always get fixes, or i'd have insights on what mods players use to make it better and how, and then implement those into vanilla, even if it was 7 years later. instead of solely making GTA6, fix your f'ing game.

you can get immersion without trash UI

infact the overuse of UI is what ruins immersion

Just another QoL mod to add to your collection. Gathering from the notes that the devs left behind the reason the UI is so slow is because of consoles. Of course, in typical fashion, this "feature" is ported to the PC version. Several other UI animations can be sped up or slowed down but I only modded the menus for now.
see not an opinion

people literally design UI mods to speed it up

game likes to waste your time

this is like a game i would play 8 hours straight if the UI was good

as it is, i would probably play for 1 hour at a time, until i run into some f8#kery and then quit, and then come back when i calm down and play for another hour, and repeat.

so lots of save scumming

might look into mods, if they have any to fix some of the issues

[tepid wadi]

Well, despite those issues, the game won tons of awards and is hugely loved so its possoble that you just care about those issues more than most people.

[tranquil cove]

no its not possible lol

you cant LOVE A GAME you can never see because the UI is so trash you can't get through the game

UI is paramount in game design

i already explained the difference as a game you can play 8 hours straight, compared to 1 hour

[tepid wadi]

YOU cant, clearly. But tons of people love this game despite any UI issues.

[tranquil cove]

because they are bias

they are fanboys of rockstar

or they played it at the time, on console

a game designed for console, for players used to slow ass menus and bad UI will work well for them

and playing a game AT the time of release is different than 2026, expectations are different

i am not, and never have been a console gamer, and dont own a console

dont port to PC if you cant make your game work for a PC gamer

[tepid wadi]

Perhaps. I have a friend who recently played through it for the first time on PC and loved it. He isnt a rockstar fanboy or he'd have played it way back then.

Your opinion isnt a universal truth

[tranquil cove]

yeah i bet if we had time to analyze your friend, and present him other buggy UI games, he would have a double standard

because humans are not consistent

i am consistent.

[tranquil cove]

i agree my opinion isn't universal truth, but what i am saying is not opinion, it is truth.

when i say an opinion, it will definitely not be universal truth

i have not said an opinion though.

the game literally has bad UI design

unless you believe everything is subjective truth? then lets not have a conversation. since nothing is true, there is no point.

we're in that age of the internet, where there is no truth anymore

i dont dislike the game as a whole, i dislike the parts of the game that are frustrating

[timber prism]

RDR2 is probably one of the best sandboxes to get lost in

I spent hours just playing poker

The story is fantastic on top of that

I really wish they put effort into RDR Online

[tranquil cove]

like i said, i didn't do the main quest, went into sheriff office, got a bounty. decided to reload save, went to do main quest, then go to sheriff office to pick up that bounty, and it's just not there.

i try to pick up a handgun, i find out after 10 minutes of google search you need to tap tab very fast to switch handguns. and i read that it took some people 30 minutes to figure this out due to bad UI/control expressions.

i decide to see if i can stow my handgun on my horse and pick up this handgun after, i walk 10 feet away to horse, mess around with clunky UI there. come back and figure out I can't do this. decide to exchange the pistol on the ground for the one i have anyway.. EXCEPT the pistol on the ground is gone now, nowhere to be found. completely erased.

[timber prism]

Also LOL

[tranquil cove]

and the having your loadout change? IS MAJOR annoying, i will definitely need a mod to stop this.

why is this idiot putting things on the horse he can carry on his back

[tepid wadi]

Despite any UI issues, the game has almost universal acclaim among critics and players alike. Claiming the game cant be good with UI issues is simply wrong.

[tranquil cove]

its not wrong, its logical process

you are literally saying logic is wrong

if a player cant get from point a to point b, without frustration and hassle, or soft locks, or hard locks, then the game no matter how good it is, cant be experienced the way it is meant to be experienced. IT WONT BE GOOD, TO THAT PLAYER.

holy shit

simple logic man

i agree it is a good game even, i just can't experience it

[tepid wadi]

Yeah thats what I'm saying. Its a you problem. You care about those UI issues more than most people do, so the game isnt good TO YOU (which is an opinion)

[tranquil cove]

like i said i have to grind through and save scum it, 1 hour at a time. or find mods

[timber prism]

Valourants opinion is apparently the truth 😔

[tepid wadi]

The game is not "objectively" bad because you dont like it.

[tranquil cove]

apply that to anything, like politics, and we can say putin is good because some idiot voted for him.

just because it doesn't bother that person

[tranquil cove]

that wasnt my claim

the game is objectively bad in specific areas, that overall drop the quality of the entire game to 7 or 6/10

the 7 or 6 is subjective leeway, but there's no way you can ignore the bad UI and say the game is 10/10 unless you are bias.

[timber prism]

There are plenty of 10/10 games despite not being perfect

And setting a numerical value to a game being good or bad is just an opinion

[tranquil cove]

no this isn't perfection is lacking, or some sub category or personal opinion of the story. this is a whole SECTION of game design, CALLED UI and controls.

and yes if you get a whole category wrong in the game design, you can't be a 10/10 game, sorry.

[timber prism]

Despite that flaw a game can be 10/10, sorry.

[tranquil cove]

unless the game is actually about bad UI and control, and thats part of the game design

which RDR2 is not

it's not a meta game about bad UI

i think you guys just lack vision on seeing how many times the game would improve if these multi millionaire dev teams took a few months to fix a few simple issues. there is such a thing as being too grateful, and not discrimating/critical enough.

sure it allows you to enjoy a game i guess

[tranquil cove]

whats the point of customizing your cattleman revolver if you get 10 better revolvers later on?

none of which you can improve the barrel or sights on for some reason

upgrade your base gun to be mediocrely better, to waste your money, because you will find 10 better named guns later

also why am i getting a free horse i cant sell yet

what do i do with this horse? maybe take it behind a barn and shoot it? lol

[timber prism]

We get it. You dont like the game and cry about the most meaningless stuff

[agile edge]

Better is subjective all guns head shot will do the same . I used a schofield revolver for 300 lvls in online just cause I like how they look.

Your in for a long ride if you dis like the game already . It's crazy long.

[tranquil cove]

its not meaningless why would you lock horse stuff behind a quest, and then people can still get a 2nd or 3rd horse before then.

so i have to wait until i unlock this quest, wherever and whatever it is, to be able to sell or store the horses in stable.

i half expect this horse that i came into posession to disappear when i reload the game, i don't trust the save system to remember what i actually have or did.

[tranquil cove]

yeah i noticed that, the weapon system is kind of meaningless, not even sure why weapons need different values, like why would i care if a gun does more damage, if i can kill just as well with the lower damage gun? etc. like you said.

maybe for bears?

the whole gun system is there, just for bears 🤣

bison etc lol

plus i dont see an intuitive way to not have this horse follow me either. hitch it somewhere i guess? when i call 2 horses come now, which is great if i want to haul animal carcasses. i don't know where i get another saddle either. like the game has strange design choices.

You can have temporary horses, or other horses at camp to choose from, but if you want to use another horse, saddle and all, you will have to remove your saddle from your main horse and put it on the other horse. The new horse with the saddle on it becomes your main horse.
ahh well there you go

the game doesn't tell you this.

it doesn't tell you that the gun you drop for a named gun, will be in your storage, despite being left on the ground somewhere.

it just creates situations of pure confusion

its the most "immersive game" that somehow limits saddles for no reason, and gun storage, and upgrades"... like clearly they sacrificed immersion for gamey things, and then didn't even explain the boundaries of the game to the player.

yet they have the crappiest UI and people explain it's for immersion, contradicts itself.

[tranquil cove]

also based on what you said, better is actually not subjective. You do get 10 better revolvers later on. as in they have values that are higher in accuracy, range, and damage etc. and maybe even do special attacks or use stronger bullets.

the subjectiveness comes in from the game design, where you can use any gun to make a kill. so is 1 gun better to kill than another? maybe faster or easier to use? but if you can make kills with all guns, it may not matter - therefore it wont be better for killing if you already have no issue killing.

are some guns objectively better than other guns? it seems like it. either in some values or all values across the board.

[misty arch]

an oldie but a goodie has returned
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/mmo/cult-online-action-rpg-marvel-heroes-after-more-than-eight-years-offline-has-player-run-servers-at-last/

[tepid wadi]

Oh, I remember that being a lot of fun.

[daring wave]

Why do we not have the free stuff bot in here that posts free games.?

Seems like it would be a no brainer.....

[tranquil cove]

you said why

because a bot has no brain

tobruk has a brain and is good at what he does

why are you trying to replace tobruks job

[daring wave]

What are you even on about?

I ain't trying to "replace" anyone.
Also, job?? Wtf ?

[tranquil cove]

here you go

you can get this very bad game for free on steam

https://store.steampowered.com/app/640700/Narvas/

Steam

Narvas

The story of Mace, a young scavenger recently promoted to the Resource Collection Department for the Narvas Colonies. He is ordered to infiltrate and discover resources on distant planets in search of materials to ensure the survival of his people. Supplies are hemorrhaging, scarce, and unaccounted for. Times are bleak for Narvas.

The scaveng…

Price

$0.98

[daring wave]

Yeah, I know this, I have access to it in another chat.
That was my point.

[tranquil cove]

if you already have access to it, then whats the problem

this is enshrouded discord, first, they don't exist to promote other games, we're lucky we have an other games channel. a lot of game discords don't.

[daring wave]

Wow, are you intentionally trying to be a Dbag?

[tranquil cove]

no it's all natural, i dont need to try

[daring wave]

Obviously

[tranquil cove]

the point is it's a discussion channel, any links from a bot will either flood the channel, making discussion harder, or discussion will overtake the link, making it 300 message back and hard to find. ultimately amounting to nothing because we all have access to a free games bot in another discord anyway... or you can make your own discord and bring the bot into it.

people can also just post any free games that look good

[daring wave]

"look good" is also subjective.
If Keen didn't want to promote other games/developers they wouldn't have an "other games" room to start with.
And the bot doesn't flood the room with random crap daily, that's just plain BS.

[tranquil cove]

i mean i dont want a bot in here, if i want a bot, i can click 3 seconds to make my own discord server and invite any bot i want to announce anything i want. if i can do it, anyone else can do it too. if they added a bot, id probably want it in its own separate channel, where nobody could talk. so i could hide the channel. since i already have these announcements elsewhere. 🤷

you were saying what you want, i am saying what i want. i see no problem here 😄 , not everyone wants what you want. "you said why do 'we', and framed it as a 'need'. i am reminding you not everyone is the we, and it's not a need for everyone.

[daring wave]

Thx, Karen. I'll remember to take your opinions into consideration next time I ask a question.

[tranquil cove]

hey i see you have loud and obnoxious in your profile

now you're seriously getting mad someone does it better? 🤣

love it.

[daring wave]

Who said I was mad?

Is that some kinda projection thing?

[tranquil cove]

oh is karen a term of endearment, thank you then. i'll be your karen.

[obtuse scroll]

Enough both of you. Keep it civil or you're both going to be muted

[tranquil cove]

how about weigh in on the bot?

[daring wave]

Ptff. Go for it.

[tranquil cove]

or is that an uncivil topic 😛

[obtuse scroll]

Discuss games but keep it nice

[tranquil cove]

the room is 97 cents

https://store.steampowered.com/app/288160/The_Room/

Steam

The Room

Fall into a world of bizarre contraptions and alchemical machinery with The Room, a BAFTA award-winning 3D puzzler from Fireproof Games. Follow a trail of cryptic letters and solve many unique devices in ever more extraordinary places, on a time-spanning journey where machinery meets myth.

The Room PC is a fully-enhanced HD release of Apple's…

Price

$0.74

Recommendations

29576

Metacritic

73

might be worth 97 cents?

$5 for the whole series

[obtuse scroll]

Sounds a little like the game Blue Prince or whatever, that was popular like 5/6 months back

[ornate fractal]

I think I'm gonna do a new playthrough in Avowed. Anyone else played 2.0 yet?

[agile edge]

Yikes.

[ornate fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/hi-doggie-pet-put-tommy-wiseau-the-room-gif-12607538861332918708

[tranquil cove]

in rdr2 the amount of times someone wants to attack me leaves me wondering if the game is broken half the time, or if it was designed that way lol just greeting people on the road, and they want to turn hostile, unless i leave, just doesn't seem normal. then i literally witness a murder and the two guys who do the murder don't care and ride off and tell me not to tell anyone. the game is just so random and inconsistent. then i approach a house and open the door and immediately everyone inside turns hostile. which also isn't how normal humans would react, even in that time period, unless you had your gun drawn? almost like they are trying to give you hostiles everywhere, it doesn't seem like a very realistic game to me.

like, trespassing is the only option they give you, you cant knock or yell from outside the door. so i cant tell if i killed 5 good men due to bad game design and only over 'trespassing' or if those were bandits in a hideout. who knows? because the game sucks at explaining or showing what happened.

and even bandits would stand up when you enter, and say who the hell are you, before firing at you. but apparently rockstar doesn't think so. i genuinely cant believe this game won awards for misrepresenting the time period lol

[agile edge]

It's a game about cowboy satire, It be like that.

[tranquil cove]

all i have to do is stand beside someone at their campfire, and they turn hostile, wait for them to shoot at me, and then kill them. i guess it was a way to earn money back then? i dont lose rep doing this.

honestly very poor game design.

[agile edge]

Murica

[tranquil cove]

pretty sure i can end up killing half the world this way. and still be honorable, and break 100 quests that required those npcs lol

im dreading finding out that i needed those npcs alive later for side quests lol

i think i saw mods that indicated that if store clerks die, you lose them or something, and the mod allows replacement.

[vague galleon]

Are you still complaining anout RDR2? how many days has it been? just play a new game and move on.

[tranquil cove]

i am playing other games too, 2 other games right now

[ivory cove]

If this is ur RDR2 complaints

You should play Crimson Desert

So i can listen to u rant about that too

I feel like that'll actually be relevant a topic too, since complaints now can actually make changes in the game with updates

[tepid wadi]

I tend to really like mechanics-based games with less of a focus on story, so I'm considering picking it up 🤔

[tranquil cove]

i saw crimson desert apparently they have no ARC support and didn't tell anyone which to some degree i understand not supporting a graphic card that isn't that mainstream yet. (ie people do web development to support big browsers only, and not the 30 niche browsers). but at the same time pearl abyss is a big company, so they could have afforded to include arc support. the bigger issue is just not informing players this card wont be supported and players finding out after release.

crimson desert seems too fantasy for me, so like the story and character design doesn't appeal to me at all.

the world is beautiful of course

ill keep slowly playing rdr2 and listing issues, my thing is that i kept putting off the game for 5+ years and playing for an hour and being off put by the game. so i am trying to give it a fair chance by forcing myself to play it longer, but also because i bought the game, so i want to actually get some value out of it.

it has lots of good things too, it's just i don't tend to highlight good things. at the same time it's good things are still framed within a game that doesn't really seem for me. they romantized the west in a more violent american fantasy way that doesn't really seem to fit well with fantasy/romanticization's from movies at all, so it's just a weird take to me.

[ivory cove]

You should get it then 100%

It feels almost like a survival game tbh

U can even build and customize ur own house!

Also the combat feels more akin to playing something like DmC/Bayonetta/Ninja Gaiden

Or like.. a fighting game even

Soul Calibur, Tekken, ect.

U got crouch combos, follow up combos, combo strings, aerial combos, grapple commands.

OTG atk combos..

Finishers, ect.

And it has very BotW/TotK type exploration

And as a fellow Enshrouded fan, there is a glider u can get~

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, all of that sounds right up my alley for sure.

[ivory cove]

But, the game is also very slow.

Which is good imo

As a survival game enjoyer slow build up is what i like

[ivory cove]

I think u can even fly on a dragon at some point!

[timber prism]

I can't wait to start playing tonight. Im gonna do a barehand grappling build for first run

I really do hope I can do a wrestlemania style grab on a dragon. Its gonna be amazing

[tepid wadi]

I have zero plans, lol

[misty arch]

you can but its time gated. its use has a 15 minute real-time time limit, and then a 50 minute real-time cooldown that's impossible to speed up

[timber prism]

I tried to keep myself from knowing much about the game but there are so many spoilers so once I found out that was a legitimate way to play with a tree... im doing it

[tepid wadi]

Thats horrid, what

[misty arch]

ya, you arent the only one complaining

[timber prism]

I hear people's reviews are all over the place on the game

[misty arch]

that they are

[timber prism]

I hear its about the same as death stranding

So many people hated on that game

I personally loved it

[misty arch]

The sad thing is that whats turning off a majority of people is the controls/menu system. its just a nightmare to figure out

and they tell you next to nothing on how things work

[timber prism]

I think its gonna be the same for Crimson. I read its a hodgepodge of BDO, BOTW, and RDR2

Big fan of BDO and RDR2 so im excited

[misty arch]

then youll probably enjoy it

[timber prism]

Is this with controller? I heard people complaining about K&M

[misty arch]

both, but im hearing people are switching from controller, which the game tells you at the beginning to use rather than k&M, because you cant change the controller layout yet

thy are trying to fix and add things. They launched the game without a standard storage system, other than your own personal inventory. They just added that in with todays update

[tepid wadi]

My understanding is that the story isnt a main focus so if you're going in looking for the witcher, you're gonna have a bad time.

[ivory cove]

I' having fun

Tho i accidentally mugged someone trying to greet them

So now i have to pay off a 7 copper fine 😭

But i couldn't find the towns church to confess my sins

[feral lily]

Doesnt sound like youre sorry enough that that happened...

[ivory cove]

I'm not a criminalll

Well..

Ok maybeeee i stole my sword and sheild off the wall display of a rich nobles bedroom wall

And a necklace from a secret safe

B-but.. but thats it jus those few things

I am a gud law abiding citizen

[feral lily]

sure... keep telling that to yourself

[ivory cove]

Is ok, I will make up for it when I win big

And then I will donate hundreds to the cities

Think of them as, a loaned asset with grand returns

[feral lily]

[ivory cove]

Biggerest of brains

As I always am

Hehehe

[vague galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/oblivion-tes-elder-scrolls-remastered-stop-you-violated-the-law-gif-700239978679843557

[ivory cove]

It was an accident D:

His money jus happened to slip into my hand while I greeted the person

It could happen to anyone really

[timber prism]

I saw the funniest video of someone trying to feed a dog and someone randomly came by and took it from the dog

10/10 gaming

[ivory cove]

Someone else told a story of how they pulled a bounty poster from a signpist and after reading it the exact same guy literally came up and pickpocketed him

U can guess wat happened next lol

[timber prism]

That is so awesome

[timber prism]

Suplex?!

[ivory cove]

Yeah probably xDD

[tranquil cove]

windrose updated with some news

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/3041230/view/506230784633340267

i like when companies are invested in gathering and listening to feedback, and making the changes they can that still line up with their vision of the game. (enshrouded comes to mind too for being good at this)

just wondering when i can throw my money at them

[ivory cove]

Survival games in general always seem to have the best dev/community relationships

[timber prism]

@ivory coveokay this game is fantastic.. you can just pick up random cats and carry them around and pet them

[round beacon]

you can throw goats around aswell lol

[timber prism]

whaaaaat lmao

[round beacon]

also u get a cat companion that occasionally hops onto ur shoulder etc.wont spoil more juuust this one 😅

[ivory cove]

Yesss, if it likes u enough they'll follow u around permanently and loot atuff for u!

And later on in the game.. u can even get cute lil armor sets and outfits for ur pets

🥺

[round beacon]

not just the pets. u can armor ur horse too

[timber prism]

I THOUGHT IT WOULD LAND ON ITS FEET IF I DROPPED IT

😭

[ivory cove]

Yes but kitties in armor >.<

[tepid wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-gingerbread-man-you-are-a-monster-broken-leg-shrek-gif-5498298

[ivory cove]

I need it in my LIFEEEE

[ivory cove]

How could u

[tepid wadi]

Next patch: Cats are immune to fall damage

[round beacon]

one does not simply throw a cat over the edge of a cliff... thats what u do with goats!

[timber prism]

there was no throw option it was just drop >.<

[round beacon]

well you certainly accomplished the cruel murder unofficial achievement

[ivory cove]

Nothing is safe in this game

Even the children aren't immortal

If u go full villian u can go around suplexing the town children

Or missile kicking them into the next week

😭

[round beacon]

one of the first things every self respecting gamer has to do

(not me havin a mod installed that lets me kick the pesky townkids in skyrim cough)

[feral lily]

Sounds like a you thing to do

[round beacon]

what? balgruufs little brats deserved it!

[ivory cove]

If the kid is acting up

Jus discipline them

1 measly lil suplex and piledriver combo never hurt anybody

[feral lily]

lol

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/7A5YWn33eps?si=lrJ_9MxnjQYqmFMF

[misty arch]

https://massivelyop.com/2026/03/24/elite-dangerous-players-on-epic-games-store-must-migrate-their-accounts-thanks-to-a-launcher-snafu/

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/DsswWPXweW8?si=g-huuj7TnnSs1cm4

[proven plinth]

Well I'm not a big builder in Enshrouded but check this out 😄 Conan Exiles the Isle of Siren (modmap)^^

[left osprey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhFBmucukXw

gotta wishlist this gem

[nova mango]

I was exploring some mountains yesterday! @feral lily

[nova mango]

@ivory cove

https://tenor.com/view/ehh-no-no-bugs-bunny-denied-not-approved-gif-24222983

[ivory cove]

Its a snowman!

Gib it a hug :3

[nova mango]

nop.

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/anIplOALNXg?si=vGqfpIiEFEpmVXFS

[tranquil cove]

man RDR2 takes 1 million years to draw a gun

and your character is busy doing horse things to even draw the gun sometimes, such clunky garbage controls, people were real easy to please in 2018 lol

everyone whose ever claimed a game had a bad console to PC port, should have claimed the same about RDR2, and probably didnt due to some weird bias, even though it's 100% true imo.

[ivory cove]

https://youtube.com/shorts/LRk986NE_7Y?si=0guL4ILPwfCZZ0DQ

I want a kittyyyy!!

I'm so jealous

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/o3qdePYCito?si=y2c9qQwUAX3lUn3K

[nova mango]

@ivory cove like this

[ivory cove]

O m g

They dont use yellow paint or red painted barrels

[nova mango]

nop

[ivory cove]

A game that treats their players like adults?

[nova mango]

exacly

[ivory cove]

Finally i can prove my smarts!

[nova mango]

it's a game for gamers with hands and brain yes!

[ivory cove]

Yush!

I am currently refusing to use the DLC bonus gear rn

[nova mango]

this is the weapon

[ivory cove]

Not until I find armor that is equally as cool and epic

I want to fashion to be drip fed

Through the authentic exploration

[nova mango]

i'm in love with the music that is on top of the mountain

[ivory cove]

Do u has the storage chest unlocked yet?

[nova mango]

only the 1st one

[ivory cove]

It seems like gear so far is primarily cosmetic

I wish I could inspect the upgrade path of rings and necklaces tho

[nova mango]

i'm still on chapter 2 82% into the story

[ivory cove]

What the?

I'm still on the 3rd mission

🥺

[nova mango]

chapter 1?

[ivory cove]

I jus burned bushes off a lil castle fort thingy

I been doing all the town quests and catching criminals

[nova mango]

oh okay i understand where are you with the story

[ivory cove]

I.. also may have robbed a few nobles and banks-

[nova mango]

😄

[ivory cove]

But i'm gud

The bad guys are evil

Therefore its ok

I wish more things could stack in ur inventory tho

[nova mango]

the inventory system is a bit 😬

[ivory cove]

Like.. I feel like I could fit some bugs in a stack in a lil cage

[nova mango]

i did some of the story to upgrade the inventory

[ivory cove]

How the hecks does a fruit fly take up an entire inventory slot, but a a bouquet of 50 flowers can fit in that same amount of slots

[nova mango]

i got now 89 slot, is not soo bad

[ivory cove]

I got 79 rn!

[nova mango]

magic !

btw did you got the twitch drop?

the blue lantern is very good!

[ivory cove]

Theres a twitch drop?

[nova mango]

i mean is fancy

[ivory cove]

Is it too late

[nova mango]

is not to late!

[ivory cove]

I dont use twitch ever so i didnt know

Imma get it!

I live pretty stuff

[nova mango]

is until today!

[ivory cove]

Thank u for tellingggg

Ur the bestest!

[ivory cove]

WHAAA!!

Alrighty to time go then

[nova mango]

open twitch!

[ivory cove]

Gotta leave my phone on idle for 300mins

[nova mango]

or second monitor or tv!

like i did!

[ivory cove]

Bai bai Fuyu dear

[nova mango]

byeee!

[ivory cove]

I play on PS5

[nova mango]

oh than phone!

gogo we talk later! have fun!

[ivory cove]

🫂

Huggies for u!

@feral lily Apparently Death Stranding is also doing Twitch Drops, but only just for today left too best go get it!

[feral lily]

Thanks but I really don't care about that stuff 😅

[ivory cove]

But its FREE stuff, u dun even gotta watch the stuffs

Jus leave it afk in another room

Or muted on ur second unused monitor

[ivory cove]

@nova mango always open ur coin bags one at a time.

Idk if theres a bug or sumthing but I swear sometimes it only gives me 1 bag worth despite opening like 3 or 4 at once.

[nova mango]

some give just some copper!

[ivory cove]

Yeah but usually the minimum they give is like 10 copper

So how come when i opened 3 of them it gave me 13 copper

🥺

[nova mango]

some of them give like 1 or 2 🙄

[vague galleon]

🥺

[ivory cove]

I opened them separately this time and I got like 80 copper!

[timber prism]

Gimme your copper

😭

[ornate fractal]

[Ea-Nasir has entered the chat]

[vague galleon]

👀

[tranquil cove]

https://klipy.com/gifs/copper-1

[ivory cove]

I didn't get the Twitch drops..

[ivory cove]

I am truly a menace

[tepid wadi]

I picked it up, never have I played a game where I feel like I have to constantly fight the camera

[ivory cove]

Arent u literally a server mod for Enshrouded. This should be second nature for u

Fighting cameras is the Enshrouded way

[ivory cove]

I discovered booty slapping :c

[misty arch]

would have been hilarious if she turned around and slapped you

[ornate fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/rarda-gif-26327703

The time honored (and horrible) tradition of kancho.

[misty arch]

funny enough, that is exactly what popped in my head when seeing the video

[ornate fractal]

I see we are equally damaged in some ways lol.

[frank sonnet]

Yar

[tepid wadi]

The way the camera constantly swaps sides and moves around drives me crazy. I get motion sickness sometimes when games have argumentative cameras 😝 Plus, the way their item targeting system works is bunk. The "origin" for where the targeting happens is the center of the camera, but ALSO your character needs to be in the right range for it, so it causes a thing where you have to walk up to a chest, but then look sharply down at it to be able to target it (because the camera is so far from your character).

Enshrouded's camera movement feels a lot more natural to me

[nova mango]

Why not?

[nova mango]

😂

[ivory cove]

Oh, the looting can be annoying for sure

But once u use it enough i think you'll get used to it

Reminds me of the grabbing system of Skyrim

[tepid wadi]

Yeah it seems fine, I just gotta do it in small bursts to start so I don't vomit. The camera is the main problem for me.

[ivory cove]

🫂

No vomiting

[tepid wadi]

My brain has to get used to the camera flinging itself around 😝

[ivory cove]

Motion blur could help with that

[tepid wadi]

Nah, motion blur makes it 1000x worse

I'd remove motion blur from every game forever if I could

[ivory cove]

Did u turn it off?

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, first thing I did

I'll give it another go tonight, usually it's better after I play a couple short sessions

Just one of the weird quirks of my brain

[nova mango]

@ivory cove new twich drops till 1 April!

[ivory cove]

I got those ones already

But its jus for the horseys..

I missed the armor set. The most important one

Also idk how to even get the stuff

I clicked claim and nothing happened

Thank you, but wrong game xD

[nova mango]

https://www.twitch.tv/drops/inventory you must link your twitch account once you press claim, than you need to choose the platform. Once is done you will get the drop in game under the menu' ADD-ON

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/TELZ5GOaC3U?si=djSagYmLjkZ2vwU-

https://massivelyop.com/2026/03/26/stunlock-has-ended-v-rising-development-but-is-working-on-a-new-game-set-in-the-same-world/

[tepid wadi]

I mean... fair. V Rising is an excellent, complete feeling game.

I'm always a fan of putting things down when they're finished to work on something else. You don't need to update it until you run out of ideas.

[misty arch]

agreed, as much as we would want content for our games forever. The reality is they need to move on to something new.

[tepid wadi]

And honestly, if the modding community wants to keep adding stuff to complete games... that's probably the best way to support them for longer than the devs can rely on them for financials

[nova mango]

@tepid wadi 😁

[tepid wadi]

Very nice. The fashion souls of FF14 has always been great, as is the story

[nova mango]

oh now is even better!

[tepid wadi]

But I value the gameplay customization too much to really enjoy it long term

[nova mango]

there is no more class restriction or job restriction or even race and gender restriction, now you can wear (as glam only ) every part of the gear of other classes!

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/akemL0MHLg4?si=j9DeaT2hUOswIJ7N

[tepid wadi]

Oh that's pretty nice, though I don't remember it ever bothering me a ton

[tranquil cove]

i don't think you 'need' to move to something new all the time. it depends on the game, the company, the circumstances. it's possible to support a game for a long time and still be making profits off it. especially if the game ages well, where updating the engine or graphics is not necessary. if the game has an appeal, even if it's a single player game, that community could end up supporting the devs for a long time.

people just tend to move to something new, because making new things is fun, and you can try new ideas etc. or profits sure... as for some games you can't support them indefinitely, or you just want to make more profits than a steady stream or whatever.

[timber prism]

Agreed. I think its very healthy for a company to make new games and not stay stagnant especially if their current game is as complete as it is. As cool as another V Rising expansion would be, I feel like they gave us a complete game in every aspect they could. Looking forward to trying out their new one.

I think a good example of a game that needs to move on is Terraria... I would totally play a Terraria 2 but they keep just updating the original game

[keen violet]

Zerax, I'm curious if you've ever tried Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2. Those were the MMOs I was really into in high school and college. (Though the original Guild Wars was less an MMO and more an... MO, I guess.)

[timber prism]

I think Zerax actually worked on GW2

he would need to confirm though haha

i might be mixing up convos XD

[tranquil cove]

yeah but there are games that can stay without sequels forever, and continuously update. a good example is minecraft, and even hytale.

i am not sure what good a terraria sequel would do. a platformer is a platformer, i don't need improved graphics, and if you go 3D it's more like a new game than a sequel, it will lose it's charm and become something else. might as well not sequel if you go 3d and just make a new game with the same idea.

[timber prism]

Yeah, thats you. I would love Terraria to try something new with updated graphics. Risk of Rain is great but I actually enjoy Risk of Rain 2 more going 3D. Same thing could happen for Terraria

[tranquil cove]

No i am making a valid point beyond preferences.

You just missed the point.

[timber prism]

You said "you dont need improved graphics." in which i said, "yeah.. thats you."

[finite saffron]

A 3d terrarria would need a much higher budget I imagine, making those kind of epic boss fights in 3D would be a whole another level. But yeah it could be cool if a studio pulled off the concept

[timber prism]

exactly, it would be cool

[tranquil cove]

The point was that a more 3D graphic overhaul while keeping the game a platformer wouldn't do much. It would be like making a sequel and copying the exact same game except modernizing it for 2026.

[timber prism]

^ again.. thats you

wouldn't do much is an opinion

i think it would do a lot

[tranquil cove]

Whereas a truly 3D game, with third or first person camera would probably be worth it.

No this is a valid point.

you keep missing it. it's okay.

[timber prism]

k bro

[tranquil cove]

You also get situations where you have companies that just go immediately to sequels in 2 years, and it's actually annoying.

House flipper, and Escape Simulator both did this.

[timber prism]

@ivory cove LMAO... observing moves is low key hilarious in this game... like the random person doing a dropkick on the bridge to a bandit and you are like. OH OKAY XD

[tranquil cove]

I like EA indie games, so i can see someone who buys triple A games still, as buying into the complete a game and move on aspect of development more. Whereas I only buy EA games, and get to enjoy a long 5 year development process. I actually like it.

Some of the games I have I hope they keep adding onto them, finishing would mean I have to buy a new game, because I'd also finish all the content sooner.

[timber prism]

I think this is the main thing that I would want to see. Terraria boss fights were super fun to begin with and having them in a 3D space if pulled off correctly would make them much more enjoyable to me. Like imagine fighting Pumpking in 3D!!! It would be so awesome.

[tranquil cove]

Terraria has been fun with the updates though. Every now and then I get back into it and play.

It's also one of those games I don't see myself drawn to if it was 3D, for me the franchise is about the current art style and side-scrolling. If it became 3d first person camera/third person camera, it's a new game entirely that is now competing with windrose and other games. And I'd rather play windrose and other games.

Some games are their art style. When GTA went 3D, I didn't follow them either, the last good GTA game was GTA2 for me.

[tepid wadi]

Ticonz is right, I worked on GW2, so... yeah I played it a lot.

It was very early in my career, but some of my contributions persist to this day 😝

[keen violet]

How did you like playing it, and how did you like working on it, if you're comfortable and able to talk about it? :0

[tranquil cove]

I guess if they give terraria a zelda vibe, it could be good in first person/third person 3d.

[tepid wadi]

Loved it. Gimme 30m or so and I'll give you a real response

[keen violet]

Ping me when you do so I don't miss it. I don't check this channel often 😅

[tranquil cove]

I doubt I would love any game development job, the second they do something I don't agree with for the game, it would just feel meh, to work on ideas that aren't my own or that I don't agree with. But it depends how invested I was in the game I guess. I would minimally make notes on how I would have done things differently, and plan my own game on the side.

my job in game development, needs to be CEO. in movies, it needs to be director. 😆

[keen violet]

You know... I feel you. When it comes to something I deeply care about and use or play on a regular basis, compromise is hard. It's one of my faults that I need to work on.

It's good to be passionate and fight for what you believe in. But if nobody can compromise, nothing will get done, and everyone will leave feeling unhappy.

[tranquil cove]

yeah exactly, though i see the value in learning the industry first, being a 3d artist, and a programmer for a few companies first before immediately trying to run your own studio. and also, in development, I do take a more collaborative approach. i will ask people their opinions, and look for consensus.

i've been persuaded away from/off of a few strong ideas i've had before

it usually seems like i wont budge, but the next day 'i thought about it more and i think you made some good points, so maybe we can compromise on this idea, even though i am the ceo and i can just overrule you' lol.

[ivory cove]

I wanna reset my skill tree honestly so I can learn the stuff naturally and boost my stats but idk how frequently i'll learn these new skills

[keen violet]

I think one of the things I've had to actively work on is to pay attention to which of my coworkers are quieter and easier to accidentally bowl over, and actively restrain myself and seek their input and make sure they feel heard and not just dismissed by the louder person. Because if I don't, they're going to start slowly resenting me and their job because they feel unvalued, and I'll likely genuinely miss out on valuable insights.

[tranquil cove]

i don't think i could have coworkers and not ask them their input, it would feel wrong to me.

best game development imo, involves listening to everyone, even the people you disagee with.

[keen violet]

It's not just failing to ask for their input. It's actively seeking it out. Actively listening, considering, and working through their idea with them.

[tranquil cove]

like at least hearing them out. like i know we don't see eye to eye but what do you think about this? and then i can decide if their points are valid or not at least. not knowing at all? like complete ignorance? is worse.

[keen violet]

It's the difference between:
"Hey Jennifer, I've been thinking about adding this feature to our code generator."
"Eh, that sounds unworkable. Cool idea though."
And:
"Hey Jennifer, I've been thinking about adding this feature to our code generator."
"Hmm, sounds like it could be difficult, but could you explain your thoughts and how you're thinking of implementing it? I have some concerns, let's talk about them."

[tranquil cove]

yeah, i mean ideally, everyone is on the same team, so it's a collaborative process and not an adversarial one.

[keen violet]

(Just to use a real example from my professional career)

[keen violet]

Adversarial discussions and debates are definitely more difficult, particularly if you're on different teams and negotiating some shared resources or interfaces. It's hard to gauge just how real and meaningful another team's objections are if you haven't worked their role.

[tranquil cove]

unworkable, cool idea though, is pretty dismissive.

[tranquil cove]

that's part of why i would want to be ceo though, with the power dynamic, most people are worried to be any bit adversarial toward you. so this way i can engage entirely in a collaborative dialogue with my coworkers.

whereas without actually leading the company, people will butt heads with me all the time, and me with them.

so even if i desire a more collaborative conversation, i wont get it lol

being a woman ceo would probably be difficult still though... i could imagine men just deciding the woman being collaborative means she doesn't know what she wants, so they will try and be assertive over her, or some BS.

[keen violet]

Here's the problem: as CEO, you're likely to be mediating the adversarial discussions. The discussions are still adversarial; they're just adversarial between the people under you in the hierarchy, competing to gain your approval for their idea over the other team's. You can't escape the politics, except by keeping the company small and its culture explicitly collaborative.

[timber prism]

yah, I just used one doing the same thing

you are probably far enough into the game where doing it right now would net you a lot of mats back

i was not LMAO

but im still really early in and the points i did use... im not even using much regardless... seems we earn faded mats pretty easily or maybe its cuz im not too far progressed

[tranquil cove]

how would you keep it collaborative, besides asking the more quiet co-workers their thoughts and listening to them? by having meetings to discuss ideas, progress, or game direction?

[keen violet]

I suppose I don't know for certain, to be honest. It requires a lot of self-policing on the part of the individuals, good communication from the top about why resources are allocated the way they are, good acknowledgement of the sacrifices and struggles certain teams are making and why those will pay off, identifying and removing incentives to be selfish, monitoring of communication patterns and trying to work to make sure everyone feels heard. I'm a little sleepy, so I'm having trouble thinking of specifics.

[tranquil cove]

thats a good summary thanks for the input

[tepid wadi]

ArenaNet was a great place to work, I loved the vibe there and of all the game studios I've worked at, it was the one where the most people felt like they were excited to do the work they were doing, but also able to actually accomplish things without too many road blocks. It was my first industry experience, and I'd happily work there again.

GW2 was a great game, especially for when it released it was very creative and different, but I feel like when we look at how technology has advanced since then, it has core design issues that hold it back from what could be done with the genre. The zones being their own separate instances, the way dungeons are set up, etc etc etc. They have some really cool ideas that I'd love to see expanded upon in a more modern game with new tech, but they can't really change those core fundamentals of GW2 without basically having to remake the game anyway.

[ivory cove]

I am not far at all :c

[keen violet]

it was the one where the most people felt like they were excited to do the work they were doing, but also able to actually accomplish things without too many road blocks.
Oh this is so good, this is so important. It's something I got in my last job, and am sorely lacking in my current job. My current job is so, so slow, and so boring, and it's so hard to make changes. 🫠
They have some really cool ideas that I'd love to see expanded upon in a more modern game with new tech, but they can't really change those core fundamentals of GW2 without basically having to remake the game anyway.
Guild Wars 3 wen?🤣

[nova mango]

GW2 best crafting/storage system ever !

[tepid wadi]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. 😝 But crafting is one of my particular interests when it comes to MMOs

[keen violet]

I am so down for this discussion once I'm a little more awake. I'd love to hear your ideas on making a better MMO (or just better RPGs in general)

[nova mango]

the fact that you don't have to carry the item to craft and all the crafting items has a separate storage is awesome.

[tepid wadi]

My TED talk is ~13 hours long, hope you're ready.

[misty arch]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strategy/star-wars-zero-company-is-more-than-just-star-wars-xcom-it-feels-like-mass-effect-but-with-turn-based-tactics-and-permadeath/

[vague galleon]

i really enjoyed the first x-com reboot, played it on easy. but i dropped it when i got to the boss and they insta-killed 2 of my people.
like I never allowed a single one of them to die and even had one team mate never miss a single mission.
really wanted to remake them in the sequel but, eh.

[tranquil cove]

the problem with that game is it includes the new disney trash

maybe if they built it between episode 4-6 it would have appealed to me

but new disney trash = always no from me

aside from like andor

Zero Company's story is headed up by Aaron Contreras, who was narrative lead on Respawn's Jedi: Fallen Order and its sequel, Jedi: Survivor. For Zero Company, he and the writing team are drawing on Dave Filoni's long-lived Clone Wars animated series as a main inspiration, but filtered through the grittier style of Rogue One and Star Wars' recent streaming TV renaissance.

are these starwars fans? what are these guys thinking

i guess because people like the clone wars animated show

but still... nobody is a fan of clone wars who is a true starwars fan

it's always clone wars = money grabbers

like how many clone wars do i need to be exposed to in movies and games. can we move on to the rest of the expanded universe. 500 books, and these tards don't know what story to do. rofl

i dont even think a game needs to be accurate to canon

so they could have gone old school before disney bought it?

or are they disney puppets

i dont remember older starwars being that accurate, they would invent characters that later became canon.

they just sound so excited and sure of themselves
over clone wars. 🤣

[timber prism]

???? Its possible to like both. I really enjoyed Clone Wars and Im definitely a fan of Star Wars. I grew up on them

I rather watch Clone wars than 7,8,9

I wouldn't say all of Clone Wars was great but it had memorable moments worth seeing

[tranquil cove]

most people would rather watch clone wars than 7,8,9. and sure the clone wars animated series is okay, most starwars animated stuff is okay. but every game is a clone wars game. to me it's like DND always doing Forgotten Realms and always the same cities.

clone wars was kiddy starwars

[timber prism]

every star wars game is NOT a clone wars game

XD

[tranquil cove]

is this semantic hour, it's good you can realize when i am embellishing my words, but try not to sound desperate to be right all the time.

[timber prism]

you always make these silly remarks

and then move the goal post

[tranquil cove]

because i'm not a vulcan

i'm an emotional human, and typing freely

[timber prism]

gotcha so a bullshitter

[tranquil cove]

even if it gives you bait to make me look bad, i could have been a vulcan this whole time, but being free is more important than sounding right.

no i am free from caring if people take words literally when they know the meaning behind the words

[timber prism]

i dont need to make you look bad Val

[tranquil cove]

i mean i never said i look bad, i said you are trying

i look amazing

[timber prism]

you said i try to bait you to look bad

[tranquil cove]

yeah you do try

[timber prism]

at the same time you write things like "fans of clone wars are not true star wars fans."

so you aren't trying to so say that at all?

im not supposed to take that a face value from you?

[tranquil cove]

there are different fans, who grew up at different times, and maybe saw clone wars when they were 5, a movie designed for literally their age demographic. and who have no clue about episode 4,5,6 or even read a book.

[timber prism]

at*

but anyone who is a fan of clone wars is not a true fan?

or no?

[tranquil cove]

anyone can be a fan, but someone who really knows starwars is not impressed by clone wars. i've never met anyone with my knowledge in starwars who loves clone wars above other things in the extended universe.

[timber prism]

so they aren't true fans, gotcha

just making sure XD

[tranquil cove]

and there have been a lot of clone wars based games.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/12tc55h/does_anyone_know_of_games_that_feature_the_clone/

[timber prism]

would you say a majority of them are?

or just enough where you can say "all"

[tranquil cove]

no there was a ton of games before episode 1,2,3 were ever made

[timber prism]

since words matter and all

[tranquil cove]

but the newer games have too high a percentage chance of being a clone wars game

as evidenced by this xcom game, literally being able to make a story about anything, and choosing clone wars.

[timber prism]

I feel like a majority of the games have focused on jedi's and jedi powers

but they are pretty varied among different content

[tranquil cove]

eh maybe if they are successful they will make a game about another time period

[timber prism]

I also do agree with you on wishing for more non clone wars stuff

i feel like clone wars is easily marketable

as much as something more obscure in star wars would be cool.. i only think like very hardcore fans would get interested in it

[tranquil cove]

there is more jedi/sith to play with unless you go old republic time period. though i keep forgetting that disney just wrote in so many sith everywhere lately.

[timber prism]

yeah i was about to say... people keep asking for more Revan

which is old republic

[tranquil cove]

yeah thats the risk, but if you say your game is starwars, and people dont know what the story represents, then its a fresh story for them to explore... those who know, get to enjoy something from the expanded universe... and those who don't care, just enjoy an x-com game becuase the story doesn't matter, and really if it's not clone wars, it feels less invasive to them.

how can people be hyped for new stories if no one is doing new stories 🙁

[timber prism]

personally.. a different medium to gauge interest is what i would do

all it would take would be one good series to get people hooked on a different era

then pump out games for said era

[tranquil cove]

apparently there are 50-60 starwars games released after episode 1,2,3 and 12-18 featured clone wars in some way. so around 25%. so maybe not ALOT of clone wars games anyway.

i might be conflating it with clone wars content in general, there were shows, and books, so i felt attacked by the clone wars everywhere lol

[timber prism]

All i know is im ready for pod racing

i hope its turns out to be F Zero / Wipeout Star Wars

[vague galleon]

i just hope it's good

i'd love a pod racing game where you can mix and match and even customize a bit.

instead of just using premades.