i cant believe where the winds meet is a popular game
#other-games
wanton olive
Not sure I would associate myself with a game what has mostly negative reviews on steam lol Sorry Keen.
tepid wadi
Lol I mean it has 10 reviews right now. Not exactly a huge sample size.
I've been keeping an eye on it, looking at the negative reviews, it looks like they're mostly about the server infrastructure, not the actual game itself
vague galleon
looks like its fun but they have some issues to fix.
i hope they succeed.
rigid tide
As a Norse Pagan, Cloudheim kind of pisses me off. They took recycled Japanese stylizations and slapped Norse words on everything. Nothing in the trailer other than words has anything to do with our culture or mythos!
vague galleon
dang
misty arch
tranquil cove
are we getting into games that are AI trash yet and recycled assets?
i feel like gaming gonna get worse lol
frank sonnet
are we getting into games that are AI trash yet and recycled assets?
All that is already a thing
frank sonnet
Or practice self control with money
tranquil cove
i mean i didnt spend any money since july
ignored all the steam sales
nothing is really looking good to me, my wish list keeps growing but seems like it's a place to collect games to die. because i rarely move things out of my wishlist into my library.
ironically i review the wishlist and then decide it's not worth the cost and keep it there for another 2 years.
but anyway AI slop taking over game industry, means less things on the wishlist even.
tepid wadi
Yeah, I saw a game that claimed to be "Full AI Enabled" or something, and everything about it looked generic and terrible. I don't even remember what it was called.
thorn rampart
@untold lynx
Since you asked.. these are what I had on hand for when I was messing with Valheim a lot. But i haven't touched it in some time because of poor FPS.. for well obvious reasons with this build.
Will share more of my sky garden project in enshrouded when i build more.. I have a lot of plans for it.. but itll take forever to build it all as I don't play as fervently as I used to.. wierd off cylce in gaming right now.
thorn rampart
yeah.. I put @craggy egret through the ringer trying to mod my FPS back... and discover the limits of what we could break in Unity with this one >.>
craggy egret
Valheim is NOT the most optimized game when it comes to instances and scale.. He pushed.. what about 100K instances on this build. I ended up creating some hack job mod to basically remove any type of shader or gpu processing in order to get the FPS over... I think 5 is the best we got to?
thorn rampart
Luckily, enshrouded doesn't really have the same issue.
I had a build but I nuked that world because I didn't like the overall direction of it.. so wont be able to share those screenshots (well I could but it will never get completed so no point)
thorn rampart
Valheim is NOT the most optimized game when it comes to instances and scale.. H...
yeah... something like that. but it was more like 150k instances until I took one of Jere's mod's and nuked 50k of them.
craggy egret
yeah... something like that. but it was more like 150k instances until I took on...
Oh yeah that's right.. ROFL
untold lynx
Valheim is NOT the most optimized game when it comes to instances and scale.. H...
jeez 5fps huh
craggy egret
jeez 5fps huh
yeah Valheim used an older version of Unity and used "GameObjects" which are notorious for not being scalable. Unity is a great engine, but depending on what you are trying to achieve, GameObjects doesn't scale well for memory purposes, especially in a game like Valheim where there's so much data about every little object that's placed.
V Rising actually was a master class in how to scale a Unity project using ECS/DOTS and it scaled super well.
untold lynx
obtuse scroll
yeah Valheim used an older version of Unity and used "GameObjects" which are not...
Did it get any better in July? They supposedly updated Unity.
craggy egret
Did it get any better in July? They supposedly updated Unity.
All they did was update to Unity 6. They didn't actually change their implementation. It helped a little bit, but it's not going to help large scale games.
Valheim's scale issue is in their own code. It just...I mean it's 7 years old at this point.
obtuse scroll
Valheim's scale issue is in their own code. It just...I mean it's 7 years old a...
Yeah, figured, but haven't done any large builds for a while. Oh well, still good to play here and there.
craggy egret
Yeah, figured, but haven't done any large builds for a while. Oh well, still goo...
It's a fun game, and the early to mid game of Valheim is really quite perfect. They lose me after the Plains though.. Mistlands just... kind of ruined it for me.
obtuse scroll
It's a fun game, and the early to mid game of Valheim is really quite perfect. T...
Firelands nearly ran us off, the constant attacks with no break. It's supposed to be a game, that was just a chore. It got a bit better but yeesh
untold lynx
yeah I was hoping for a place to build a new cool base, kind of like all biomes had had so far
mountains = new relay station with all the portals
plains = new farm and eventually biggest base
mists = underground base under one of the mines or the boss's location (which is actually really big once excavated)
ashlands = hell to the no
tranquil cove
Yeah, I saw a game that claimed to be "Full AI Enabled" or something, and everyt...
that's what im getting at basically... i dont think procedurally generating terrain is necessarily AI? right? and usually thats done when scale is extremely huge so people mix generation with hand crafting to get an actually good result.
but a game where it's completely developed by AI? or AI generated assets are used? they just seem generic looking and bland and without soul to me.
tranquil cove
<@999596436217933875>
Since you asked.. these are what I had on hand for when I...
similar to my builds, except i didn't want to spawn in stone and work at larger scale, because i didn't want to spawn in stone, nor did i want to spend 200 hours mining it. though i managed to collect a lot of stone from 3-4 world playthroughs and consolodate it on one world after.
i liked making docks, round staircases and round towers
im annoyed i dont have my valheim screenshots
i suppose i can open the game and screenshot 1 or 2 things
thorn rampart
similar to my builds, except i didn't want to spawn in stone and work at larger ...
this was on a world modded with some of Jere's mods, and infinity hammer, so i didn't need resources. The build in my screenshots was suppoed to be a reward for my players on the server I was building which had a TON of puzzels.
before they had the new portals... I had a mod that added additional ones.. and finding this castle was supposed to be a boon by basically unlocking the portal network for access. was a fun idea that never saw its way to completion because of the FPS issue.
tranquil cove
yeah i dont use mods in games, rarely
thorn rampart
kinda why i like Enshrouded more.
To me its a more complete experience not requiring mods to get what I want out of it.
Valheim to me is a fun place.. but better with mods. ah well
tranquil cove
ideally you have infinite hammer and fly around
thorn rampart
yeah.
tranquil cove
then you can really build without qol issues
otherwise building is annoying in valheim lol
thorn rampart
and Jere's other mods that allow me to build things that are immortal (As was the case with this build, it was meant to be indestructible)
But the cool thing about all those mods is.. if they get removed.. it doesn't break anything because they are just functioning in the rules of Unity.
tranquil cove
weird steam screenshot doesnt work in valheim?
are you serious
these devs didn't even get the steam screenshot compatibility going ๐
now everything i send will just have HDR bloom because its manual screenshot
oh steam overlay disabled for valheim, maybe thats why
stupid game
it still have the cloud save issue
man i hate/love this game
ill show you some basic stuff
i dont think i have the save where i did the finished docks
round staircase and towers
unfinished
but it works
an example of how i do roofing
potion shelf
i can show you the inside, the roofing
i found the save i think
i like open spaces thats why the building is a square, but i can design less square buildings
also everything i show is not completed ๐
slightly better example of a dock, but i can see its not finished either, some detailing missing.
honey setup
i liked it inside the floor
made collecting easier
older building i made
with dock attached to it
frank sonnet
made collecting easier
damn your a building wizard
tranquil cove
im all hyped up on SE2 now
i finally put together my ship
but its only 50% done
but its together finally
it was in 9 separate pieces
i have creations in every game, terraria too ๐
misty arch
going until the 8th
https://youtu.be/Sif1ZHNvzrY?si=eUeZbCJghjcl7eYz
craggy egret
going until the 8th
https://youtu.be/Sif1ZHNvzrY?si=eUeZbCJghjcl7eYz
our gaming group has going right now. It's a fun game!
misty arch
our gaming group has going right now. It's a fun game!
good, glad to hear it. i am patiently waiting for that one.
tepid wadi
I watched some footage of the last playtest, but decided to not watch more because it looked good. Definitely looking forward to the release.
tepid wadi
Some of the coolest behind the scenes discussions I've ever seen published from a game company
All 3 parts are good, but this one is focused on the machine learning and locomotion for the robots and it's SUPER cool
timber prism
misty arch
https://youtu.be/pyS909TVyQY?si=TMbIplNCl_l0HXbT
keeping an eye on that one
timber prism
I am here for it
China killing their releases lately
i love it
Where Winds Meet and this are ๐ฅ
misty arch
Everquest was my first one.
thats the rumor. Still no official announcement. If you do want that EQ feel though, Pantheon Rise of the Fallen a spiritual successor to EQ and is being made by a few of the original dev team from EQ.
tepid wadi
Pantheon also apparently got a huge no-strings investment recently, which should be awesome for their continued development.
My buddies and I played it for a bit when it first publicly launched, its good fun, definitely a solid recapturing of EQ1
misty arch
Pantheon also apparently got a huge no-strings investment recently, which should...
they will also be adding in mounts and taming for all classes in the upcoming update this month
tepid wadi
Neat, I'll have to give it another shot after trying Ashes of Creation out
misty arch
I hope ashes is good. So much drama behind its development, hard to know where it actually stands.
tepid wadi
Yeah, I'm definitely in "cautious optimism" mode. I worry that they're going to be releasing too soon and not have enough content for the ravenous horde that's going to try it.
This will be it's real "first impression" for most people, so if it's not fun or doesn't feel good or something, it could be a big nail in the coffin
This gives me hope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WzGpSqmoEE
tranquil cove
i doubt ill play another mmo ever again
its too structured or instanced
asks me to dedicate a life + all my money usually
there is either the quest grind or the level grind or both
or you need to AFK hitting a tree for 50 hours
with a macro script
so even the skill grind not ideal, but its better than the other 2
tepid wadi
I mean yeah, we've talked about that before. Good MMOs these days need to be built so that you can have fun without hundreds of hours of investment.
Crossing my fingers that AOC gives that experience, we'll see how it pans out in a few days!
tranquil cove
everyone thought new world would be good and it wasnt
was the same old
they did level based pvp, trash
then you have discrepancies when 2 end game players 20 levels higher than you try and kill you.
the level gap or whatever
tepid wadi
Yeah, I think the whole concept of "Experience" needs to be reevaluated from the ground up for a MMO
tranquil cove
or gear gap
then the MMO becomes about grinding to get to the end game, so you can enjoy pvp
tepid wadi
But, I don't feel like soapboxing for hours about that right now ๐
I have very distinct ideas about how you could design progression in a way that supports good MMO design
And vertical level-based design isn't it
tranquil cove
the games i tend to love is where everyone is mostly equal, like counter strike (even though i dont like counter strike) but basically you all spawn with the same soldier, and then pvp becomes about skill more than anything else.
gear and even skill levels shouldn't create so huge a gap that skill cant overcome it.
tepid wadi
how do you feel about match-based games like League of Legends or Smite? Where you level up during the course of the game, but each game starts from zero
tranquil cove
how do you feel about match-based games like League of Legends or Smite? Where y...
no good
because the skill becomes about speed really there? like speed in levelling your char, and it's more team based - bad team = bad outcome even if you are good. and also 150 characters you have a lot to learn specific to each character.
so the fastest and most knowledable players win
it takes things from RTS gameplay
and im not really a huge fan of RTS
you not only need to learn your character you need to learn their character too
even if you plan to never use their character
this is why league of legends is a huge timesink
i want skill mostly to be reflected in aim and movement in a game
which means you need to program a good system for both of those to be expressed
counterstrike has aim, but it doesn't necessarily have top tier movement mechanics.
then aim breaks down into speed/accuracy/reaction etc.
i guess league of legends has aim and movement of course, though 2d plane limits the aim mechanic.
tepid wadi
so the fastest and most knowledable players win
This is going to be the case in almost every competitive game. Skills like aiming and things rely a lot on reaction speed and knowledge of recoil and things like that. Without requiring speed and knowledge, you really shrink the pool of potential game mechanics.
tranquil cove
This is going to be the case in almost every competitive game. Skills like aimin...
no i mean league of legends wants gameplay speed
the players are essentially playing an RTS
tepid wadi
That's... not true at all.
tranquil cove
they are racing to out level the other teams characters because the level gap creates advantage.
tepid wadi
RTS requires a completely different set of mechanics than League does
tepid wadi
Okay
tranquil cove
in league of legends, you avoid dying and get kills
this is based on your own skill, speed, knowledge of the game, and hugely influenced by how good your team is and the characters the other team has and how good they are.
the kills get your levels
so that by the end of the game because you didnt die often and killed well, you have a level advantage on the other team, and i think some resource?
so the goal of the game is essentially to create this imabalance imo
kill based games
are not good
where xp is dolled out based on kills
especially in a team setting
tepid wadi
The goal of every competitive game is to create imbalance that favors you and your team so your team wins.
tranquil cove
creates these huge ego ass hats who stack teams, think they are better than you, when you could be a great player who was on a worse team.
tepid wadi
Creating advantage that makes it easier for you to win is the essence of strategy
tranquil cove
and the view of skill is seen through who has the most kills only?
not a good way to structure a pvp
tranquil cove
Creating advantage that makes it easier for you to win is the essence of strateg...
i hate league of legends, so i probably will never agree with it
tepid wadi
and the view of skill is seen through who has the most kills only?
That's not true at all. Certain characters and archetypes don't desire kills, but instead create opportunities to win the game by zoning the other team, setting your team up for kills, etc. That's not just league of legends, that's the concept of "support" and "control" archetypes
tranquil cove
i dont like archetypes in pvp
tepid wadi
You can be down on kills, levels, gold, whatever, and still win because you make the right plays at the right time.
tranquil cove
again what was my criticism of mmos?
its too structured or instanced
i don't want to be a role, or an archetype, i want dynamic play
including in how i pvp and who my character is
so yeah i dont agree with league of legends, i don't think its very fun or good pvp
tepid wadi
I don't think you'll find any game anywhere where archetypes don't exist. Even in CS, you have archetypes based on weapons. Certain weapons are better at covering angles, pushing, close or long range combat, etc. In chess, you'll have player archetypes that prefer different styles of strategy.
The archetypes don't necessarily need to be strictly defined, but they'll emerge as winning strategies reveal themselves.
tranquil cove
That's not true at all. Certain characters and archetypes don't desire kills, bu...
that doesnt even matter because someone on that team is getting all the kills due to the support. and the guy with kills will think hes better than you on the other team because your support player was bad or your team wasnt as good. it's a kind of pvp structured around skill = kills still.
tepid wadi
Any game that involves PvP has that though, that's not a league thing. Even in chaotic fast-respawn games like Unreal Tournament or Counterstrike, getting kills creates opportunity to win. It opens up possibility space for pushes, objective taking, etc.
If you can kill enemies, it provides an advantage to your team, so it supports winning strategies.
If you can disable or slow them in other game types (like racing) it's the same ultimate effect as killing them in a kill-based game
tranquil cove
the point is people create advantage by artifically creating it
its not based on them having skill half the time
they will buy a better gaming mouse than you, or pick and play only with a group of people who are extremely good players, aka stacking teams, they create every opportunity to win. but it still doesn't mean if they had more kills or opportunities that they were better than you on the losing team. because a team game involves so many factors, and if they were in your situation they would likely perform worse.
so you're not really getting at the essence of skill if a game cant recognize the good player on the losing team
and league of legends cant do that well
because it only rewards kills
its the same like a level 50 player defeating a level 20 one, or a full out geared player fighting a naked one.
the naked one should win if he's good
if he's good and cant win, then its not a game centered around skill really.
its a game centered around opportunity
tepid wadi
Okay
timber prism
and the view of skill is seen through who has the most kills only?
this is not true. You have teams that win in league with fewer kills than the opposing team
timber prism
because it only rewards kills
this is not true.. it rewards teams based on how well they play their role and lane which includes basics like learning how to last hit, vision, destroying towers, getting buffs and that is completely outside of learning builds, gearing, etc.
you dont seem to understand league at all
tranquil cove
this is not true. You have teams that win in league with fewer kills than the o...
yeah i understand that
it doesnt invalidate anything i said though
timber prism
it definitely does
tranquil cove
well it actually doesn't
timber prism
saying league isn't based on them having skill is crazy
tranquil cove
thats not really what i said
every game has elements of skill at some level
again if you cant understand the depth of my points, probably best to ignore me
timber prism
there is no depth
tranquil cove
ive yet to disagree with anything you wrote about league, meaning there is depth, its just going over your head what my points are.
timber prism
no, i understand your points they are just really bad takes
tranquil cove
for example in team pvp games, that have items/cooldowns, buys etc. you want to die sometimes so you can recycle abilities or upgrade or whatever. so a team can have more kills and be less effective because the kills actually helped the other team or were poorly timed. but that's a side point.
tranquil cove
im not talking about league, i'm saying in general, in some pvp games, recycling is a thing, you use all your abilities, you recycle to refresh your characters abilities, or separately there are good and bad moments to die.
for different reasons
so in those games it would be bad to die if you still had abilities left to use, in league it would be bad to die if you had your special power ready to use. and never got to use it, and now you died and have to wait for the timer again.
or whatever
timber prism
no you use your skill and strategy to use your "special power" that is advantageous to the specific encounter, you dont just use it because you are alive
timber prism
so in those games it would be bad to die if you still had abilities left to use, in league it would be bad to die if you had your special power ready to use
^ what you said
tranquil cove
i never said you use it just because you are alive
look i cant debate with someone who cant even interpret language the same way as me ๐
timber prism
"it would be bad to die if you had your special power ready to use. and never got to use it, and now you died and have to wait for the timer again"
wait for what timer?
the timer of being with your group again?
tranquil cove
the cooldown
tranquil cove
you mean in league if you die, your main special ability is still usable after death? immediately?
timber prism
.....
its hard to talk to someone who doesn't even know the game they are trying to talk about
we can just end this lmao
you are talking in straight theoreticals about mechanics you dont know
tranquil cove
its not what i remember of league, but i didnt play for 8 years
or something
every character has a main ability that charges up
if you die, it has to charge again
death is basically a brand new character
you need kills to charge those abilities i think
timber prism
there are very specific champs that have resource based ults
but the majority are all cooldown
sweet patrol
Is it just me or is there a trend here of Val going over and criticizing/judging games you never even played
tranquil cove
yeah of course there is
i cant play every game, but i can have an opinion on games
thats essentially what the channel is
timber prism
sure but its pretty common to want to have a valid opinion based on experience when talking about something
tranquil cove
well its just your interpretation of my experience
i think my experience is enough to have an opinion
i dont need 1000 hours
timber prism
otherwise we come across situations like this where you are talking in pure theoreticals that happen due to missunderstandings
tranquil cove
in a game i didn't like
tranquil cove
i did play like 100 hours a looooong time ago
my experience didnt outlast my memory
my memory is pretty bad
sweet patrol
perfect example of ultracrepidarianism
(in other words armchair expert to put it in gaming terms)
tranquil cove
i mean ticonz says the same thing about me when i have 800 hours in a game i don't like.
arguments from authority have little value to me
1000 hours or 1 hour the ideas should be judged on the merit of the idea, not the person, or how much 'authority' they bring to the argument. especially online, people can just lie about being an expert, or playing a game for a long time.
so ironically i can call everyone here an armchair expert too
it applies both ways.
but luckily i just judge ideas and not people.
plus you really have no idea on the sum all of my knowledge or experiences, so pretty assuming/bold thing to claim. experiences from various areas can still provide valid input in a totally different topic, the world is not one dimensional - things intersect.
and i mean i never claimed to be an 'expert' on league
the topic wasn't actually about league of legends, it was about pvp in general.
it was about that genre of game (MOBA) pvp system, compared to an RTS or an MMO or an FPS and what makes a good PVP game. Obviously if you like a MOBA, or MMO there's a good chance you will like the pvp because you've been indoctrinated into their systems and thats the only way people know how to PVP and display skill - it's all they know and they've been rewarded for engaging in those systems in various games. I don't like MOBAS or MMOs, and don't even really like FPS systems either or RTS. It's why I largely haven't pvp'ed since the time of ultima online.
the pvp systems in games are value based systems that reward certain things, and punish other things. and therefore they get people thinking this is what a good pvper is. the easiest path to victory is a good pvper. that is what every game rewards, opportunity. whereas i think skill is about challenging yourself against the odds, putting yourself in no win situations and still coming out on top. the reason nobody does this, is because games aren't dynamic, they are artificial systems. if you put yourself in a no win situation in a game, you lose (in most cases).
its probably too philosophical of a discussion.
(plus if we go with the expert idea, i've been gaming over 500 games for 30 years - so i mean, yeah, one could pretty much call me an expert and not be wrong)
definitely i'm an expert on what I THINK is a good pvp system for me.
misty arch
The game being announced at the Game Awards next week might have been revealed.
tepid wadi
oh shiii
misty arch
if its what it looks like, its going to be huge
tepid wadi
I'll even just take a PC version or remaster
misty arch
right, pc version would be amazing in itself
tepid wadi
lol
misty arch
you can make them even bigger in the dna sequencer in the anomaly. or their egg at least.
tranquil cove
i name every creature i find john cena
frank sonnet
speaking of funny names
misty arch
the other MClike game thats coming out is inching closer to release.
https://youtu.be/EIRSflY1jr0?si=F05L5-2q-oLxUjxQ
tranquil cove
i played the demo, they have a lot of work to make it a game.
the combat was fun though
and the airships
tepid wadi
Yeah, I mean "minecraft with buildable airships" is enough to sell me
tranquil cove
yeah its just not much content though, you can build, fly, and fight skeletons. there some animals, but there wasn't much of a progression system or anything else to do.
a game where 'building is the game' gets old for even someone like me who spends 1000 hours building (it's basically a tech demo). you need reasons to explore, lore, story, mobs, progression, survival, all of this adds reason to build and extends the life of the game. so it's not minecraft yet, maybe if it cooks more.
maybe the demo i played was just old or bad or something
then again that video shows 1 blue skeleton, a shade, and a monkey, and it's mostly footage of steam.lol
my experience of the demo was basically the last clip, walking past gophers/Chupacabra or whatever it is. ROUS.
to be fair, they basically demo'ed an alpha version, wasn't even EA.
what was there seemed good
tepid wadi
I mean it was also a demo. They may not have even had all their "current" content available. Demos are often months old because of the build stability and certification process involved.
tranquil cove
the game did crash though
thats why demo is a waste of time
i rarely play demo, dunno why i played it
90% of everything in the demo i could have gotten from a gameplay video later on after EA releases
tepid wadi
I mean, if the demo gave you enough content that you enjoyed what was there, it did it's job. Playing is often believing, and even if you'd get just as much from videos later, lots of people would like to have their hands on a game to see how it feels. Demos go a LONG way towards helping sell copies if they're good.
frank sonnet
i firmly believe all games should have demos
tepid wadi
Agreed
shut topaz
gm fam. how's your weekend?
You might be interested to playtest a moba game on December 18-19th
tepid wadi
Looks kinda neat, gonna be hard to pull me away from Deadlock on the MOBA front though
vague galleon
frank sonnet
vague galleon
light no fire looking good.
shut topaz
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2557020/Eon_Rush/
Playtest on December 18-19th
misty arch
another game being rumored for announcement at The Game Awards
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/new-info-on-the-game-awards-obelisk-points-to-divinity-original-sin-announcement-from-bg3-developer/
frank sonnet
stone
misty arch
A new MClike has appeared. Looking like a mashup of Minecraft and Astroneer.
https://youtu.be/3LtvLCATq4A?si=Bk11MQQJxAuTuDLF
frank sonnet
misty arch
tepid wadi
I womt be able to try it until tomorrow, interested to see what early impressions are.
timber prism
I womt be able to try it until tomorrow, interested to see what early impression...
Any idea what server you will be on?
tepid wadi
"Why we give dwarves crossbows, exhibit A"
frank sonnet
or guns
misty arch
will not put it on here as its probably questionable but Divinity was announced and you can check out the trailer on youtube
misty arch
ts happened.
Total War Warhammer has gone....40k
https://youtu.be/QeCItSg-wmI?si=nBGsn6tLOw-Nt5BB
misty arch
Hogwarts Legacy is the free game in Epic store.
Clair Obscure has released new content just now
craggy egret
Man, as expected, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 mopped the floor at the game awards! Won every category except two nominated for. Masterful game. Very well done. All accolades warranted.
tepid wadi
half temple
ornate fractal
Tell me your game was made in America without telling me your game was made in America. ๐
frank sonnet
misty arch
horn works, try your lights
vague galleon
I DO like kei trucks.
vague galleon
https://youtu.be/pEJ0bbqY6i0?si=ZiR3vM65SRHQW52h
wasd is terrible for this. D:
misty arch
wasd is terrible for this. D:
lol, i can only imagine. im not a fan of that either for car racing games
vague galleon
i think this is a funny game but ive only ever been semi into racing games.
very casual.
misty arch
I like the look of it as im a fan of the burnout crash games
vague galleon
im suddenly reminded of an old website game
i miss this era of the internet
this game
played it a few times as a kid but never got past the second check gate, timer ran out too quick.
misty arch
it actually makes me think of this and maybe they drew inspiration from it
https://youtu.be/L0pt_v4cq4s?si=sz-h91Uffh_XeBsi
vague galleon
hmm
quartz hamlet
0987654321
reef bobcat
...is Path Exile 2 always this dungeon darkness, full monsters, cut & slash isometric game, all the way trough ? or is there moments of rest, of beauty, of fresh air with hubs / cities where you can interact with npc and have dialogues and get Quests ?
vague galleon
probably. all i know about path of exile is it's pretty grim dark.
it's an ARPG, most of them are generally like that.
timber prism
...is Path Exile 2 always this dungeon darkness, full monsters, cut & slash isom...
do you want spoilers?
tranquil cove
if this was released 10 years ago it would have been considered a done game
funny how today it's early access and the dev is not happy with it
i guess it depends what the crafting system is like and if there is one
that interphase kinda gives me runescape vibes more than minecraft
the game has climbing
and jump roll animation lol
the map looks nice
frank sonnet
funny how today it's early access and the dev is not happy with it
the dev is more then likely be releasing content and updates for the game after the game is "done" so i don't understand what his problem is and why he can't just release something
tranquil cove
the dev is more then likely be releasing content and updates for the game after ...
they are, in January
that's like... nothing away... in terms of dev timelines
frank sonnet
still i question why he's so deadset about making his game perfect right out the gate when minecraft wasn't the way it was now when it was first released
timber prism
timber prism
the dev is more then likely be releasing content and updates for the game after ...
first impressions can be pretty impactful on a game
look at Ashes of Creation
I dont know if they are gonna recover from theirs XD
tranquil cove
why did they rewrite the engine
timber prism
Its also kind of concerning of wanting to avoid steam for EA because they dont want negative reviews to be so easily accessible to the masses
Hopefully it does well to give people more options to a Minecraft-like experience
tranquil cove
oh they wanted to a rewrite for multiplatform? is that the only reason? if the current engine is not limited/capable of doing most mechanics... then it would have been wiser to release the game, make millions, rewrite the engine after.
timber prism
The video i linked is a pretty interesting watch on concerns
tranquil cove
The video i linked is a pretty interesting watch on concerns
my friend seems unconcerned by this
I've never personally seen a game launch with this much support for modding right out the box. Minecraft had to be broken apart by the community to mod. The first modding implementations were distributing modified copies of the actual Minecraft JAR file (piracy).
Not only is it deobfuscated, but they're going to be releasing the full source code for it. Again. From their website.
and he's a programmer/game modder
ill probably trust my friend more than person who sounds like AI but claims they aren't an AI voice on youtube.
but i think i'll still wait a few months if not longer until after the EA launch of hytale.
timber prism
ill probably trust my friend more than person who sounds like AI but claims they...
trust a person more than someone who sounds like AI when you literally just post with AI talking points. But I do think you waiting a few months if not longer is a good idea.
She addresses the issue you have thinking she is AI in that video and you can reference her other video of her talking with a face cam
It is good to critique and be wary of her concerns. I dont fully agree with them either but it is something to note. Im curious how well Hytale does when it releases and will be watching how it unfolds but Im not too optimistic about its success.
reef bobcat
do you want spoilers?
๐ sure, no problem... im trying to compair path exile 2 with titan quest 2... one is constantly under ground the other above ground with amazing scenic views
timber prism
๐ sure, no problem... im trying to compair path exile 2 with titan quest 2... ...
There are a lot of above ground and dungeon type maps of various environments but I dont think was any moment of relaxing and photo mode backgrounds. There are hubs where you wont be fighting which have vendors and npcs for quests but not they arent big.
ornate fractal
Ugh, I need my Avowed update but they pushed it to 2026. I just adored that game. Wanna new game + as a total cur.
tepid wadi
๐ sure, no problem... im trying to compair path exile 2 with titan quest 2... ...
Act 3 and 4 in POE2 have areas that are particularly beautiful, though they don't do as much "scenic showoffing" as TQ2 does, where you're standing on a high place looking down into a valley or whatever.
Both look/feel great though, ARPG fans eating good these days
reef bobcat
thx guys for feedback i want to try POE2... YT videos i saw only shows walkthrough of endless combat in dark caves and lot of bugs to slaughter as you move forward - kind of a slash grinding and didn't seem that fun
tepid wadi
It's having a free weekend right now, easy to give a shot
vague galleon
i need to find the drive to play more torchlight.
i want to max out 2 more characters and try mods.
but ive played the game to death so i dunno
lilac granite
I still need to beat Torchlight 2, but changing computers and I think I'd have to start from the beginning ๐
vague galleon
i dont recall it being that long of a game but i've got a measly 450 hours in it and have beaten it countless times.
and like, as long as you have your old save files, you can just press on, it's quite linear.
tranquil cove
still waiting for poe 2 to have a free rest of its life
before i try it
wasnt the game supposed to go free at some point?
the amount of times i've bought games and then they went free, and nobody refunded me my money...
grand iris
it's supposed to be free when it releases out of EA
but that still seems a long way off
timber prism
wasnt the game supposed to go free at some point?
it was supposed to hit 1.0 around March but now its moved to late 2026 and might head into 2027.
misty arch
Fable finally going to be shown off in Jan during xbox developer direct event.
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/fable-4-xbox-2026-reveal-tease/
vague galleon
i have zero faith in it.
misty arch
preorders are also live for Hytale.
https://massivelyop.com/2025/12/15/rescued-mmo-hytale-has-opened-pre-orders-for-its-january-early-access/
tranquil cove
preorders are also live for Hytale.
https://massivelyop.com/2025/12/15/rescued-m...
no way im pre ordering
the good news is the fine text
meaning you dont need to worry about preordering before a playable version is out on steam or somewhere.
all the pre-order options will be available through the entire EA process.
EA process will probably last 2-3 years
so you can wait for some gameplay videos, some reviews, some road maps, some first updates, a friends opinion on the game who purchased it/played it etc. and then purchase.
you might lose a username? but i dont care about that myself. i have 6-8 different names that are rarely taken in games.
can just cycle to the next one if one is taken
then again standard is only $19, some people view that as pocket change.
tepid wadi
I often lose my username in MMO-type games, someone else out there uses Zerax and I HATE it
vague galleon
I often lose my username in MMO-type games, someone else out there uses Zerax an...
gotta be more original like meeeeeee
vague galleon
marathon only in name
rustic nexus
gotta be more original like meeeeeee
Some will copy a known gamer name in attempt to trick others into giving them stuff, going to malicious websites, stealing their IRL identities. We have to be extra careful and don't just trust a name.
tranquil cove
dont tease zerax like that
tepid wadi
dont tease zerax like that
Every time I see videos about how the MMO genre is dying, the "Fine, I'll do it myself" gets a little bit stronger.
tepid wadi
I'm building the business plan and strategy pitch ๐ Maybe I'll be confident enough to take the leap at some point
tranquil cove
pitch it to me i have money remember
i can fund 10 dev salaries for 1 year
if you dont have a working game by then, i take your homes. ๐
honestly going in on an MMO is such a risk
can you do a coop first?
tepid wadi
My strategy is a bit unique compared to standard MMO strategy stuff I think, but I don't want to get too into the weeds about it in a different game's discord ๐
tranquil cove
if you find 5 devs who will work for 20k a year
can fund a project for 10 years
man how do people start gaming companies?
tepid wadi
haha
tranquil cove
usually they just work for free right?
unless they find some seriously rich backers
tepid wadi
There are a few ways:
- "Garage" games made by passionate people while they work other jobs
- Get investment from a company
- Hijack a R&D process at an existing company to make something you WANT to make
- Just have enough money to quit your job and found a studio
tranquil cove
imo you need an easy entry game too
tepid wadi
Right now, #2 (the main way for MMOs) is basically off the table, 4 promising MMO projects got canceled in the last 5 months, which is super depressing.
tranquil cove
something where the graphics arent unreal engine 5
something like stardew valley or poly bridge
misty arch
that time of year again.
https://store.steampowered.com/replay/76561198162278825/2025
tranquil cove
i was grinding away achievements on games i already own
which is harder, because the easy stuff is done
that and playing games with no achievements like project zomboid
rimworld also no achievments wtf
noob games, get achievements already
misty arch
free for today only
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1134700/Wild_Terra_2_New_Lands/
sleek linden
finite saffron
And Enshrouded is part of it!
tepid wadi
....minecraft doesn't need to use crossovers to attract the youth
misty arch
....minecraft doesn't need to use crossovers to attract the youth
true but it is kind of cool. if i was into both I would absolutely check it out
finite saffron
Yeah that's a pretty cool looking collab
I haven't played MC in years but if I did I'd probably enjoy that I imagine
tepid wadi
I'm a curmudgeon about crossovers, I almost always feel like they cheapen the base game.
misty arch
it does depend. they need to be done well and be fun. not just for the cash.
tepid wadi
It's always bugged me with monster hunter games, like seeing the megaman palicos and stuff just rubs me the wrong way. And now the MTG crossovers that are all over the place.
It's just my Grumpy Old Man syndrome ๐คทโโ๏ธ
misty arch
misty arch
co-op is finally coming to No Rest For the Wicked
https://youtu.be/ayIqY6Sszcw?si=qaA7cSps2hOSill4
misty arch
It's always bugged me with monster hunter games, like seeing the megaman palicos...
and just know, you are never to old to play video games
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/fighting/worlds-most-powerful-92-year-old-wins-tekken-8-tournament-for-the-elderly/
tepid wadi
Get wrecked (grand) son!
shut topaz
If you love co op action rpg game you might wanna try.
Eonrush is live now for playtest you might be interested
misty arch
If you love co op action rpg game you might wanna try.
Eonrush is live now for p...
does look interesting. kind of a throwback to the Diablo's before it became an online only game.
timber prism
digital sorrel
i can fund 10 dev salaries for 1 year
did i actually just read this?
it must be destiny
how would you like your pitch? fancy some grains of salt with it?
frank sonnet
https://youtu.be/z7tpqnsajLw?si=yIyw6o3YymSv0nd6
man this update for enshrouded looks insane
tranquil cove
man this update for enshrouded looks insane
im glad enshrouded finally became a good game
it even has pvp
frank sonnet
vague galleon
vermintide?
vague galleon
i was hoping i'd like that game but for some reason it didnt click for me.
tepid wadi
Vermintide didnt really click for me either, but I LOVE darktide.
vague galleon
gunfire reborn and galactic mining didnt either for me
reef bobcat
i finished "Enshrouded" and now im bored of playing "LOTR Return to Moria", so i tried the free "Path of Exile 1" but along with "No Rest Fo the Wicked" its to gloom / macabre for this time of year.... so i bought the 2$ "Cats Hidden Around the World" to chill and smile at every Meow ๐ฅฐ
vague galleon
ive returned to playing torchlight II as there are things i still want to do.
onyx relic
most underrated game in a decade, 9.5/10 masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KckPGlVYA9M
timber prism
most underrated game in a decade, 9.5/10 masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/wa...
fun game but is it really underrated???? Its been getting pretty good ratings across multiple news platforms
shut topaz
https://youtu.be/kU0WHgw-K0g
Overview
Loss Prevention is a 2v4 game where players face off in a supermarket. Some players are Shoplifters who work together to collect all the items on their shopping list before time runs out. The other players are Shopkeepers, whose job is to catch the Shoplifters and stop them from getting away.
Game Setting
The game takes place in a busy supermarket filled with players, non-playable characters, and lots of distractions.
๐ต๏ธโโ๏ธ Shoplifters move in and out of the store, grabbing items from their list before the timer runs out. They can also create accidents or distractions to keep Shopkeepers occupied.
๐ฎโโ๏ธ Shopkeepers need to stop them by catching them or making sure they donโt finish their list in time.
Shoplifters have to balance between blending in and moving fast, while Shopkeepers have to manage both the chaos in the store and the sneaky players.
tepid wadi
Makes me think about Payday 2 and what Payday 3 could (should) have been.
frank sonnet
you know i was wondering why so many games look like west hunt https://www.syntystudios.com/
woeful badger
most underrated game in a decade, 9.5/10 masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/wa...
Thanks for sharing, it looks awesome!
ornate fractal
Speaking of pretty games, I was a little bummed that Stephanie Sterling never reviewed Avowed or included it on her games of the year list. I thought it was a really nice little game, though admittedly I played it after some major patches went out. Any other Avowed fans here?
misty arch
Ive played it but didnt get to far into it. It is a very good looking game, thatis for sure.
stray coral
Anyone played Bellwright? If so any good?
tepid wadi
I wasn't suuuuuper impressed with it when it came out, but that was almost two years ago
flint blaze
It's had a lot of updates since launch. I plan to check it out again in the future.
frank sonnet
drifting fog
I wasn't suuuuuper impressed with it when it came out, but that was almost two y...
Same, but it is getting very frequent updates all the time, might be a lot changed now
timber prism
silk schooner
HAPPY HOLIDAYS
faint tusk
merry xmas to you also
timber prism
frank sonnet
played castle crashers with my brothers on Christmas
rustic nexus
Canโt wait to see Master Cheeks with 6 fingers ๐
misty arch
timber prism
I thought ROTMG was always free ???
stray coral
haha happy healing potion or the kool aid man ๐
faint tusk
STEAM junk --- what are these games that i never bought or played, do appear in my UNCATEGORISED leftside menu ( when i filtered by TOOLS ) ???
ornate fractal
**STEAM junk** --- what are these games that i never bought or played, do appear...
They are free tools available to Steam members, not games. And since they are grayed out it looks like they're not on your storage, just available to download.
rustic nexus
Helldivers 2 is supposedly working on 8 player missions
ornate fern
Helldivers 2 is supposedly working on 8 player missions
Yea they apparently want to make it some kind of open world. So you can run into other squads on their on mission mid mission
misty arch
todays free game in the epic store.
https://youtu.be/uk8_FUIJh7Q?si=ZoPUPC9xGILecyAz
misty arch
rustic nexus
Yea they apparently want to make it some kind of open world. So you can run into...
If that's the case then it might turn into a big mess because people will start PVPing and some will focus primarily on killing other players so there'll have to be an option to prevent running into other teams. Some people have zero interest in PVP and that's their choice.
ornate fern
If that's the case then it might turn into a big mess because people will start ...
Ass i said those are purelly rumors and if they implement it they are propably going to do somethings to prevent this.
marble ether
misty arch
pine nexus
people should really give this game a look, it's pretty amazing ngl
misty arch
own it
tepid wadi
Yeah, I have it as well
timber prism
Owned briefly and refunded
Couldn't get into the game but I know lots of people who enjoy it
Im having the same issue with KCD2 atm
Its a me problem for both ๐
Ended up picking up a gpu due to the inevitable increase that has already started happening
After a decade of being Team Green I have gone back to Team Red and picked up a 9070xt for $580
pallid current
https://youtu.be/aXuxVLkmNeU?si=3WQe2AW1hH-7MOny
yea i remember seeing a video for lansplit a while back, seems okay but with the no hesi mods and community for asseto corssa...just zero interest into this one.
thin wharf
people should really give this game a look, it's pretty amazing ngl
Is it 3rd person?
misty arch
Is it 3rd person?
it has it but its default is first person. you can change it in the settings.
frank sonnet
misty arch
thin wharf
it has it but its default is first person. you can change it in the settings.
I tried it ty
thin wharf
Couldn't get into the game but I know lots of people who enjoy it
Same i couldn't get into it.. the movement and combat feels so clunky
rustic nexus
https://youtube.com/shorts/DCuu6352oI0 very interesting๐ค๐ค๐ค
tranquil cove
why did baldursgate 3 win labour of love
did it get any content updates or have they just been bug fixing for 3 years, and everyone thinks designing a bad buggy game that needed that much fixing is a labour of love now lol
daring wave
why did baldursgate 3 win labour of love
sheeple
reef bobcat
did it get any content updates or have they just been bug fixing for 3 years, an...
Labor of Love means love is difficult, and requires you to accept what you love as-is.
So yes, most any early access game is a labor of love. Same for games that are indeed good, despite their flaws
BG3 is the bestest TTRPG video game conversion of all time. Also, we used to just exploit the never-fixed bugs of BG1 and BG2 ๐
Star Citizen: an amazing gaming experience, wrapped in a suit made of insects
finite saffron
The Steam awards are always just a popularity contest lol. It actively encourages everyone to vote and just suggests your most played games. Not sure why people are surprised when the winners don't make a ton of sense
honestly most of the winners were fairly appropriate this year too
tranquil cove
so bg3 got labour of love because kraven thinks its a popularity contest award, got it.
and people like kraven voted on it, based on it being the best ttrpg conversion as if that qualifies it.
also wtf BG3 is still early access?
finite saffron
I mean BG3 is one of the most beloved games like... ever, and they were actively updating it up until the end of the year, so it doesn't seem inappropriate
tranquil cove
sinful
finite saffron
and no BG3 is not early access
reef bobcat
Never said it was.
tranquil cove
i never said you said it was
finite saffron
labor of love is the vaguest steam award tbh, but BG3 fits the trend. It has been released on steam and constantly updated for over 5 years
tranquil cove
I mean BG3 is one of the most beloved games like... ever, and they were actively...
is it really a beloved the game? never got that impression, again i think it's like an 8/10 game, with probably 4/10 characters.
finite saffron
I've never even played it and I'd say it's the most beloved game of this decade, yeah. The praise and hype for it was insane
tranquil cove
every single character in BG3 annoys the f out of me, and doesn't inspire me to keep them alive. i sort of want them all to die and lose the match.
tranquil cove
I've never even played it and I'd say it's the most beloved game of this decade,...
oh i was looking forward to it too, but then it released.
and i moved on to other games ๐คฃ
finite saffron
The only game I can think of that is more universally praised is elden ring, maybe
ornate fractal
Oh, my take was too spicy. Ahem. I haven't played BG3 but I've watched others play it. It seems fine, just...very...specific.
reef bobcat
every single character in BG3 annoys the f out of me, and doesn't inspire me to ...
"Stop liking what I don't like."
tranquil cove
labor of love is the vaguest steam award tbh, but BG3 fits the trend. It has bee...
labour of love isn't confusing, it's a game that continues to receive updates that are free and big, the confusing part was if being in EA qualifies it for that because an ea game will obviously receive updates... so it's more of an obligation until the game actually releases. and that's what we were looking at in the wording for labour of love title. the wording on steam says something like after it's major release.
reef bobcat
BG3 is not Early Access
tranquil cove
i never said it was
finite saffron
BG3 has been out of EA for a while, but either way early access doesn't mean a whole lot. Some games have been in early access for over a decade
reef bobcat
Then why mention it in that previous comment?
tranquil cove
im speaking in general there
tranquil cove
BG3 has been out of EA for a while, but either way early access doesn't mean a w...
yeah but im explaining where the debate comes in, as there are games not in ea, not obligated to give free updates, but they do major updates 3 times a year.
reef bobcat
BG3 has been out of EA for a while, but either way early access doesn't mean a w...
"Meanwhile, in Star Citizen..." ๐
Or, worse, Star Atlas lol.
finite saffron
star citizen is what happens when a game makes more money in alpha than most games ever make in their entire lifetime lol
why finish the product when leaving it unfinished makes so much money
reef bobcat
star citizen is what happens when a game makes more money in alpha than most gam...
Literal textbook SAAS
Or, really, GDAAS
tranquil cove
The only game I can think of that is more universally praised is elden ring, may...
ironically or unironically, i don't like elden ring either, but maybe it's a good whatever it is for the genre. i just hate that style of game, concept, art, and gameplay.
reef bobcat
Same. I get why it is popular tho
finite saffron
I don't like souls-like games either but it's an incredibly well built game, yeah
tranquil cove
BG2 by the ttrpg community is well loved imo
and many like it better than BG3 still
reef bobcat
Where else is the best gear a pot helmet and tightly whities? ๐
tepid wadi
That's only the best gear if you can be 100% sure you'll never get hit ๐
tranquil cove
i feel like newer generation gamers who never played bg2, can't get into it and think it sucks. or are used to new qol systems in gaming.
reef bobcat
I just love all the Carbot videos for Elden
reef bobcat
i feel like newer generation gamers who never played bg2, can't get into it and ...
I like QOL, though I wish it felt less cheesy at times
tranquil cove
universally loved game, is like stardewvalley?
never really heard of anyone who played it and hated it
reef bobcat
Enshrouded, even the NPCs know they are in a video game lol
tranquil cove
but universally loved by nature might require a high population game too, maybe something zelda related?
who doesn't love zelda..
they probably have 1 universally loved game
finite saffron
I mean if the new zelda was on steam it probably would have won something lol
tranquil cove
enshrouded needs a mod
reef bobcat
Needs many mods lol.
tranquil cove
where if you turn off npcs from waking, they are chained to the floor
would have been funny
reef bobcat
This is fantasy project zomboid for me - or, might could be. ๐
finite saffron
Yeah we'd love to have mods at some point. Mod support is a big undertaking for a game like ours, though, given that it's built in a custom engine. We'd have to make all the infrastructure and tools from scratch.
tranquil cove
project zomboid is extremely good
the issue is the update length is holding it back big time and holding people back from ever realizing how good it is
if they just hired some devs
oh which reminds me
finite saffron
their team is decently big, isn't it?
tranquil cove
when toast said a game is in ea 10 years and keeps getting updates
typically, it's due to the game having 1 developer
lol
tranquil cove
their team is decently big, isn't it?
honestly, i don't know, i thought it was 3-4 people, but perhaps they have grown it to 10 more recently?
ohhh yeah i remember reading this
On October 15, 2011, the apartment of two of the developers was broken into, and laptops containing large amounts of the game code, which had not been backed up externally, were stolen,[15] resulting in severe delays to the game's development.[16][17] Due to these setbacks, they gave a presentation at Rezzed entitled "How (not) to make a video game", going over some of the lessons they have learned since starting the project
finite saffron
Yeah in my experience extremely small teams or solo devs are really difficult to expand teams with. The devs are generally resistant to it in the first place, because the game is their baby, but also when the codebase is built without sharing in mind, it's often extremely difficult to onboard new people onto the team.
Bigger teams have a much more structured workflow and codebase and stuff, so it's easier to expand when they find success.
tranquil cove
i suppose it could be double that now?
hopefully the updates get faster
faster than 1 every 3-4 years
what does 2 from general arcade in singapore mean?
2 random people off the street in singapore enter an internet cafe and code for the game sometimes?
and each time it's a random 2 people?
lol
ornate fractal
Pfft. Silly.
finite saffron
2 random people off the street in singapore enter an internet cafe and code for ...
General arcade is a co-development studio, so they are contract workers
reef bobcat
I think there must be a sweet spot between too many / too big, and too few / too small.
Star Citizen - CIG employs some 700 to 800 actual developers lol.
And structured or not, you know there is gonna be some spaghetti code in there, and a mountain of technical debt
frank sonnet
frank sonnet
digital sorrel
Star Citizen - CIG employs some 700 to 800 actual developers lol.
how many worked on the fallout engine?
misty arch
how many worked on the fallout engine?
little unfair comparison since fallout engines the same one used in elder scrolls and starfield as well
reef bobcat
No idea. They are overall making something amazing, but yeah.
I thought he was referring to Fallout 1. There is no "fallout engine", most of us have simply long forgotten the name of their engine
Star Citizen gobbled up CryTek engine and updated it to a 64-bit address space
So that an entire solar system can be one seamless map
Now called "Star Engine" after they won the suit with CryTek.
finite saffron
They had a lawsuit with crytek? I must have missed that
digital sorrel
I thought he was referring to Fallout 1. There is no "fallout engine", most of ...
cant be sure, but by now the bugs are part of bethesdas trademark. and someone said its simply persistent bugs of the engine that they never fixed. but what do i know
finite saffron
Creation Engine (what bathesda uses for fallout and stuff) is a pretty messy engine, yeah. It's messy because it used to be revolutionary and way ahead of its time, but now a lot of the key features of the engine are standard in common engines like UE5, which just leaves them with an engine that's notoriously buggy lol
digital sorrel
i guess its hard to let go of such a long investment
they would have the workforce to just make a new one
finite saffron
The bigger reason is that they have a team of veteran developers who have worked on that engine for their entire careers, pivoting to an entirely different engine would require completely retraining a large chunk of their most valuable staff from the ground up. In a lot of ways it makes more sense to try to improve your in-house engine rather than throwing away the skillsets your team has built up over the decades. That's actually a large part of why Enshrouded is also built in a custom engine, our team is very similar in that regard.
Pivoting to, UE5 for example, would require your entire team to completely re-learn an engine they are not familiar with
digital sorrel
how long was the development phase for your engine?
finite saffron
The engine we use for Enshrouded was built for the game alongside it as we developed it, so I'm not honestly sure the exact date it technically started. But most of our core team has always built in custom engines built in C++, like the engine we built for Enshrouded. A lot of the learnings from past projects like Portal Knights were carried over to the development of this one. So it's not quite the same story as Bathesda, where they use the same exact engine over and over
But the philosophy of why they stick to their engine instead of swapping to a pre-built one is the same, I imagine
digital sorrel
interesting. so the same reason is source for two different approaches? i mean, making a new engine for each game, is probably good training. if the senior devs of bethesda are not used to switching engines, thats a skill missing in their career
i really have no idea, but its very interesting to get your insights
finite saffron
Creation Engine is also multiple engines, they just keep calling them the same thing
It has been updated many, many times
vague galleon
Portal Knight Mentioned. 
digital sorrel
i guess so. but their classic bugs seem to be a core issue
finite saffron
But it's fairly normal for devs to have only a couple of engines or languages they're familiar with. They can re-learn new ones, but it is throwing away a lot of their skillset to do so, techniques and tricks they've learned over the years of working with something specific.
vague galleon
ES6 really needs to be on a new engine. pleeeaaase.
finite saffron
And custom engines gives a lot more freedom for teams to do exactly what they want to do, without being constrained by engine limitations
Which I imagine Bathesda likes with how ambitious their games are
Honestly with the main points of Bathesda games, like their persistent worlds and interactable objects within them, I still can't think of a great engine they could pivot to anyway without having to do a bunch of work. Like UE5 is not great at those kinds of things, either.
tepid wadi
Sometimes even obvious bugs get deprioritized because there are more important things to do, I bet thats a lot of why Bethesda has some big bugs. Their games are massive.
finite saffron
Yeah Bathesda games definitely suffer from feature creep I feel like. In the past, like Skyrim, that kinda didn't matter because the massive open world was so cool at the time that people could overlook the bugs, but these days gamers get really annoyed by those same kinds of bugs
digital sorrel
hm, is it really so beneficial to reuse code, or is it rather a question of work efficiency? because as i understand it, learning new stuff is a skill itself. developers have fun in learning new stuff. makes me think that its actually a financial decision...
finite saffron
Oh I mean it's definitely a financial/time constraint decision, but everything in game development is
games are insanely expensive to make
vague galleon
Feature Creep?
finite saffron
Feature creep is when the scope of a project keeps growing before existing features are completed. Like "instead of fixing that bug, I'm going to add a new fishing minigame!" for example.
Bathesda games are stuffed full of content, but the bugs really pile up because of that.
vague galleon
but... skyrim was soooo bare boned in a few ways compared to oblivion or morrowind.
finite saffron
I mean in a few ways sure but it was far more ambitious in other ways, especially graphical fidelity
most open world games back then were ugly as hell
tepid wadi
Theres definitely a reason that skyrim has been released 1000 times ๐
finite saffron
yeah lol
digital sorrel
most open world games back then were ugly as hell
like what? assassins creed?
vague galleon
farcry
finite saffron
Gta 4 for example was also revolutionary and I'd say it looked quite a bit worse than skyrim did
a few years earlier
digital sorrel
i havent played skyrim, i have to admit. no, i'm also proud of it.
vague galleon
i still prefer oblivion.
digital sorrel
oppose the mainstream. stay underground
finite saffron
yeah skyrim definitely suffers from early 2010s videogame "realism" syndrome lol
everything was gray and washed out
battlefield 3 was the same way I remember
digital sorrel
wasnt that the game with the horse armor?
vague galleon
oblivion? ya.
finite saffron
the DLC fiasco? That was skyrim
vague galleon
no no it was oblivion.
finite saffron
was it?
vague galleon
it was.
digital sorrel
its wasnt a fiasco really. it started a new era of money generation
vague galleon
It was in 2006, I forgot how long ago it was
i graduated highschool that year.
almost 20 years ago.....
finite saffron
its wasnt a fiasco really. it started a new era of money generation
Honestly people say that but I'm pretty sure it wasn't exactly a very successful example of monetization, it generated a ton of bad publicity and I doubt many people bought it. It was just a particularly notorious example. A lot of f2p games and MMOs with pay to win microtransactions were already around at that time, though
vague galleon
i miss the old days of the internet. at least newgrounds is still around.
digital sorrel
Honestly people say that but I'm pretty sure it wasn't exactly a very successful...
yeah, but this was a cosmetic in a single player game. despite bad publicity, it still inspired more ingame purchase ideas. and i'm sure it was paying off well for the effort
the discussion whether a full price single player game should have content you need to buy to unlock, became a silent topic in the gaming community. by now there are some really ridiculous monetization strategies, that go beyond any moral.
reef bobcat
Star Atlas: the AmWay Cult of Games... 5 million dollar spaceships you can only buy with crypto currency...
misty arch
I thought he was referring to Fallout 1. There is no "fallout engine", most of ...
Fallout 1 game engine doesnt exist. Bethesda doesnt even own that one either. Fallout 1 and 2 are actually 3rd person, turn based, rpgs and spiritual successors to Wasteland.
rustic nexus
https://youtube.com/shorts/KCB-IyJRWNI ๐ค๐ค๐ค
frank sonnet
misty arch
people who play games with steam workshop mods
https://www.pcgamer.com/software/platforms/steam-workshop-just-got-version-control-hopefully-making-it-less-of-a-headache-when-game-updates-break-all-our-mods/
reef bobcat
Is that for game only, or... for workshop too? ๐ฅบ
timber prism
misty arch
Fable gameplay incoming
burnt sierra
Honestly with the main points of Bathesda games, like their persistent worlds an...
Out of curiousity (because you mentioned persistence of the world and objects in Bethesda games), is the regeneration/"resetting" of parts of Enshrouded's world when you go to a different area for too long and/or exit the game a limitation of your custom engine, a performance optimization, or a pure design decision? As in, could you make the whole 8 x 8 km world (or however large it ends up being) persistent if you wanted to, without killing performance?
tepid wadi
I think tracking every change players made to a persistent world would make the save files size insane
Minecraft has that problem
finite saffron
Out of curiousity (because you mentioned persistence of the world and objects in...
No it would definitely annihilate performance lol, it's a performance optimization. The more changes are made to the world, the more performance starts to degrade, and it also causes save file inflation like Zerax mentioned. Which is true for all games, including bathesda games, the difference is that in our game our world has waaaay more variables that change.
I.E Bathesda games mostly keep track of props and items, if you move a stool, or a cheese wheel, or whatever, it will track that. Our game world is entirely voxel based, and (almost) everything is completely destructible. We set the flame altar limits as a kind of middle ground, to limit the high end of how much performance loss there could be while still giving players a lot of freedom.
It's a consequence of the high fidelity of our game, and how small our voxels are. Even throwing a single explosive ball probably destroys a dozen or so voxels, and that can quickly add up when players are destroying lots of stuff or building massive bases.
And yeah minecraft is another good example. In a singleplayer world, it's (usually) no big deal, but anyone who manages minecraft multiplayer servers for a living can tell you how much of a nightmare it is to manage performance when players are spawning entities and changing blocks all the time
tepid wadi
Yeah your engine programmers are absolute wizards.
Managing that level of complexity is nutty
burnt sierra
Interesting, thanks for answering!
reef bobcat
Just need to switch to 64-bit address space and then you can track the state of every square inch of an Earth sized planet and then some...
It's easy. ๐
I want a Fantasy Game using CIG's Star Engine. It will only take a decade or so to get into a beta state...
burnt sierra
I want a Fantasy Game using CIG's Star Engine. It will only take a decade or so...
What project is this engine being developed for? (I haven't heard of it before). Also I thought the whole big deal with the shift to 64-bit OS's was exactly this address space issue. Is 64 bit addresses not standard now?
reef bobcat
Star Citizen
burnt sierra
Oh that one... yeah it's taking a while.
reef bobcat
And no most stuff is still 32bit addressing
64bit is the bandwidth for the CPU and requires the dual channel for RAM for optimal performance
But very few applications are on a 64bit address space - mostly CAD stuff as I understand it
That said, I am no developer lol. Just regurgitating things I have read.
burnt sierra
Actually, I recently saw something about a game engine prototype using SDFs for almost everything, and they seem to think they can store very large detailed worlds with a not-absurd memory overhead. I am hopeful that a project such as that eventually bears fruit. (I guess a single SDF can be equivalent to many voxel edits in a voxel engine).
Although idk how you'd render that in real time...
finite saffron
Just need to switch to 64-bit address space and then you can track the state of ...
You're falling for CIGs marketing I think haha, that's a wild oversimplification, and also giving star citizen way too much credit. Not to say that star citizen isn't technologically impressive, the scale of their game world is quite something, but they still use a loooot of game dev tricks to optimize and try to make things run, they are definitely not simulating every square inch of an earth-sized planet.
Main difference obviously being that their world is not voxel-based, it's static. Other than a few props in player ships and stuff, most of the world cannot be modified in any meaningful way, whereas in a game like Enshrouded you can dig tunnels, build player bases, etc. And that stuff adds a lot of computational load.
Just different goals though, obviously. Star Citizens main focus from the very beginning has been scale, and they've done a very good job at achieving that, other than how notoriously impossible their game is to run on consumer hardware lol
but yeah most modern games are on 64-bit, including enshrouded, if that was all it took to make star citizen I think other studios would have done it already lol
reef bobcat
You're falling for CIGs marketing I think haha, that's a wild oversimplification...
Havok and basebuilding is coming. Which will feature terrain deformation, destructive structures, etc.
And I am fairly certain 64bit and "64 bit address spacing" are different. I could be wrong.
UE5 cannot do the scale of Star Citizen due to that, at least in part.
Looks better by far.
SOON (TM)
tepid wadi
If someone invested a billion dollars in my company, I'd be able to come up with something technically impressive too
reef bobcat
๐
finite saffron
address spacing in this context doesn't mean a lot to me, I don't honestly know what they're referring to, but they're probably referring to the same exact scaling problem that kerbal space program had
Though in kerbal space programs case I thought 64 bit was the limit that they were running into, most game engines (including UE5) run in 64 bit by default these days. I don't entirely know which part they are referring to when they said they "switched to 64 bit", I guess I'd have to do research on that.
reef bobcat
Address Space is used for the size of the map, basically. More addresses in that area = more detailed and finer-grain in tracking what happens at said location
Most 32bit spaces are limited to lige 21km cubes or something. Again, no expert, just talking.
finite saffron
yeah I mean 32bit is a dramatically smaller number than 64bit, I just am confused as to what part of their engine was running in 32bit in the first place. Is it a limit of CryEngine?
https://gamersnexus.net/gg/2622-star-citizen-sean-tracy-64bit-engine-tech-edge-blending the way they're talking in this article makes it sound like CryEngine is a 32 bit engine, but it's not a 32 bit engine I don't think, so I don't entirely know what they're even referring to
ah
โOne of the big, fundamental changes was the support for 64-bit positioning. What a lot of people maybe misunderstand is that it wasn't an entire conversion for the whole engine [to 64-bit]. The engine is split up between very independent and โ not as much as they should be, but โ isolated modules. They do talk to each other, but things like physics, render, AI โ what are the purposes of changing AI to 64-bit? Well, all the positioning that it will use will be 64-bit, but the AI module itself doesn't care. There were a lot of changes to support these large world coordinates. [โฆ] The actual maximum is 18 zeroes that we can support, in terms of space.โ
This is... poor planning on their part, to be honest lol
Sounds like they didn't consider the limitations of their engine when they first selected one, and had to do a lot of work later down the line to fix their mistake
Honestly Star Citizen is a good example of where building an engine from scratch can be the more optimal decision than trying to shoehorn an existing one. CryEngine was a really strange choice for a game with such a massive world.
Ah, doing more research, the version of CryEngine they initially built the game on was 32 bit. Yikes. Yeah no wonder this was such a big undertaking for them.
reef bobcat
Well it helped that CryTek gave it to them cheap. But is, for certain, "technical debt."
But, someday, I will be able to leave a Pico plushy on a stump, and another player will find it still there years later...
SOOOOON (TM)
finite saffron
What I usually hear these get called is float coordinates, I had never heard them called addresses before. That was the issue kerbal space program had, if I recall correctly their floats were a small enough number (maybe 32 bit? I can't remember), so when you'd fly your ship far enough outside the game's solar system, you'd get integer overflow and everything would start breaking in ridiculous ways. It's what prevented them for ever adding interstellar travel to the game.
reef bobcat
Yeah KSP was a 32 bit engine, as was KSP2
Hence the much smaller planets - Kerbin is barely bigger than our moon IIRC
finite saffron
yeah integer overflow causes some shenanigans in lots of games lol
I remember in the rhythm game osu, if a song was long enough you could get your score to go into the negatives because of it
reef bobcat
And even SC is cheating a bit on that. Like 1/6 scale for Earth was the last stated compare?
finite saffron
I mean honestly full scale planets would just be excessive for the most part lol, flying around the earth takes forever even when you're going quite fast
reef bobcat
I mean honestly full scale planets would just be excessive for the most part lol...
ISS complete an orbit in like 9 to 13 minutes...
Orbital mechanics are wild lol
finite saffron
yeah that's what I mean, though, I don't think most players want to fly for that long in a game like star citizen just for a single planet
Unless they're like, MSFS players, but they're a different breed
reef bobcat
Only GEO orbits are "slow" IIRC
reef bobcat
yeah that's what I mean, though, I don't think most players want to fly for that...
We regularly spend 5 to 10 minutes in quantum...
It is a gorgeous walking simulator at times, seriously
The action is intense but getting to things is not exactly fast ๐
finite saffron
Yeah I don't entirely understand why they insist on not using instancing when their interstellar travel is just essentially a waiting screen. I'm not sure why they don't just do what elite dangerous does and use the interstellar travel to load things
reef bobcat
They are now using their own brand of instancing
For some content, plus the similar Dynamic Server Meshing
burnt sierra
I mean honestly full scale planets would just be excessive for the most part lol...
True, but I would love to eventually see games that can create realistic terrain on the scale of, say, the big island of Hawaii, with sub-meter resolution. That's hundreds of kilometers across, and it is large enough to have distinct cities and biomes without feeling "smushed" like every game with a human-sized protagonist I know of so far does. (Enshrouded feels less "smushed" than most btw, but it still is a little bit).
finite saffron
I mean, MSFS is 1:1 scale with earth to my knowledge, quite literally, they use satellite data to create it
burnt sierra
But arguably if you can view meter-sized terrain details when playing a flight simulator, you are doing it wrong.
finite saffron
But yeah, most games are 'smushed' both for technical and gameplay reasons. Like, technically speaking in real life the time between two cities can be literally days of walking to get between, but when players are travelling in an RPG, they'd probably be pissed if you made them do that
reef bobcat
Do note I started this as sarcasm and poking fun at CIG... ๐
finite saffron
I have respect for the technical things CIG has achieved, I don't have respect for how awful they are at project management lmao
I mean talk about feature creep, good lord. I guess that's their business model, though, overpromise, build hype, sell packs/ships, and then you've already gotten your money before needing to deliver anything.
tepid wadi
Intrepid feels like its going the same way, to me.
finite saffron
Yeah, same. I mean to be honest, it's a really good business model. A kind of unethical business model, but it's really good at making money
And it's technically never false advertising as long as you are perpetually "in development"
But I'm not a fan of this trend of games making absurd promises before they have any clue whether or not it's even technically possible for them to create them. It has, unfortunately, proven to be quite effective. No Man's Sky is another great example.
tepid wadi
At least NMS is kind of a redemption arc at this point
finite saffron
Yeah they didn't take the money and run at least, I respect them for that
burnt sierra
At least NMS is kind of a redemption arc at this point
I've been on the fence about No Man's Sky for a long time. I'm glad I didn't purchase it when it was new, but I have heard an increasing number of people say that they actually persisted and fixed a lot of what was wrong with it. So perhaps I will try it out at some point.
finite saffron
NMS is a good game now, yeah. It has some jank but it's good
I wouldn't recommend it if you're looking for a spaceflight sim, it's not that at all. The spaceships are extremely bare bones. But as an exploration/survival game it's a pretty good one
reef bobcat
CIG aren't running, but yeah, happily taking the money. They are, at the least, mostly honest about it.
And is a LOT of fun when things are working.
In no other game can you engage in an orbital furball, move said fight into atmosphere, then land and go FPS with full air support and combined arms
finite saffron
I'm not a big fan of their "we plan to do x" marketing strategy without ever giving timeframes or info on how they plan to achieve those things.
Like, maybe they really are planning to do those things, but there are things they promised to do from the very beginning that STILL aren't in the game 13 years later. At a certain point it's very poor practice, in my humble opinion as a CM, to be promising things like that when there's clearly no concrete plans of how or when you're going to do them
reef bobcat
Really good, detailed, tactical FPS even
finite saffron
That said, even if it's poor practice, it made them a billion dollars. So capitalism wins I suppose lol
I think their tendancy to overpromise is exactly why they've made so much money, people are buying their dream game before it's even made
reef bobcat
Eh, I will take CIGs open faced nonsense, to the half baked garbage pumped out by most AAA studios.
Both are a problem of capitalism, though. Money over all else.
And boy did we throw money at our screens for Star Citizen
finite saffron
Yeah I prefer neither haha, I mostly play indie games
reef bobcat
We might even get a release of the Single Player Squadron 42 campaign this year. HOPIUM MINING FTW
reef bobcat
Yeah I prefer neither haha, I mostly play indie games
SC is still, in fact, an indie game...
๐
But yes I mostly play indie games.
finite saffron
yeah the indie label is kind of meaningless lol
reef bobcat
Project Zomboid, this, Aurora 4x, Vein, etc.
finite saffron
like arc raiders, baldurs gate 3, and elden ring are technically indie games, but yeah I don't think they're what most people think of when they think of indie games
reef bobcat
Spaceborne II
Which is everything SC promised to be - if you had ordered it from Wish.com ๐
Solo developer. Absolutely astonishing even if imperfect / basic.
tranquil cove
i was just saying a game thats impressive, but it can't run reasonably well on most systems, it's basically trash.
the main thing people want from gaming is performance
it doesn't matter how amazing your game is, if the person can't play it, it voids itself.
tranquil cove
I'm not a big fan of their "we plan to do x" marketing strategy without ever giv...
NMS isn't that good. Any game that takes 14 years to be a game, is already expired and can't compete with newer games. NMS came out as an early base building game, so the base building in it is absolute trash in every category. 100 new survival games surpass it in base building. even planet crafters is better, and its an asset game.
reef bobcat
it doesn't matter how amazing your game is, if the person can't play it, it void...
SC has some beefy system requirements, but most modern rigs can run it fine. Welll, locally - server issues are server-side ๐
And watch some actual gameplay videos. It more than competes.
tranquil cove
i doubt it, if the engine is 14 years old, and the graphics, and mechanics/building systems, then you're running into issues. you need to constantly update the game to keep it modern and there would be limitations.
i can see this with no mans sky, why would SC be any different?
i mean what i'm saying is true, SC just spends or wastes depending on your point of view, a lot of their development energy, time and money on keeping the game relevant. which you need to do if your game is 14 years old.
most people make a 2nd version of the game on a new engine though by that point.
age in a game will show less if it's not a building game though
SC just looks like a bigger scale warframe, the graphics do seem older to me.
undone cliff
yeah that's what I mean, though, I don't think most players want to fly for that...
eve online fleets can last hours unless the other side chinkens out
ornate fractal
eve online fleets can last hours unless the other side chinkens out
I spent about a year in that game around 2011 and it's the hardest I've ever worked while sitting down lol
ornate fractal
It is 100% a job if you want to be "optimized."
ornate fractal
Irony of it is that I couldn't spare the time to play "right" in the end, cause I was too busy becoming a raid gremlin in Age of Conan (and role player and RP guild lieutenant and new player helper and raid/dungeon trainer).
undone cliff
that was me but i was herding nerds and helping keep those nerds from causing diplomatic issues
reef bobcat
Go watch some Star Citizen videos. Game is gorgeous and competes fine in most graphical ways.
Gameplay or Machinima.
timber prism
Irony of it is that I couldn't spare the time to play "right" in the end, cause ...
I effing loved Age of Conan. What guild were you in?
timber prism
Go watch some Star Citizen videos. Game is gorgeous and competes fine in most g...
Agreed. The game looks good
ornate fractal
I effing loved Age of Conan. What guild were you in?
I was there like 9 years and it was a long time ago. I can't remember all of them, but I was doing my roles mentioned above in the infamous Amazons. I would lay out my criticisms of them here, but those criticisms were true of most of the player base, especially the RP scene which was full of even crazier people than the regular players (myself included in the crazies lol).
tranquil cove
SC is basic though, because it's a confined system, like Toast was saying, it's not voxel based, modify everything, with an advanced building system with total control. You're getting pre-made everything that can't be altered, which makes it more like an action adventure game. Scale is easier to acheive in such a game.
im actually not that impressed, if i played it i would probably have 1000 complaints, like i do with most games.
timber prism
I was there like 9 years and it was a long time ago. I can't remember all of the...
Oh! I remember the Amazons along with the Acolytes. I was in Legion in Flames for AoC. That was a super fun server
ornate fractal
Oh! I remember the Amazons along with the Acolytes. I was in Legion in Flames f...
Damn lol, time warping me with a few words.
Crom's balls!
timber prism
XD
reef bobcat
im actually not that impressed, if i played it i would probably have 1000 compla...
I mean, that is the case for nearly all games for me as well. And I play SC only here and there, for just that reason. "When things are working" it is great, but things ofter are not working ๐
timber prism
AoC is one of my top 3 favorite MMO experiences. The pvp was so good in that game
reef bobcat
Skyrim, Enshrouded, WOW, Everquest, EVE Online, Battlefield, Planetside, City of Heroes, X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter... all games suck. Some are fun despite such ๐
tranquil cove
yeah im saying SC looks good, but you can perceptibly tell it's older graphics, at least i can.
im also a player who plays project zomboid, graphics are not a big deal to me anyway
reef bobcat
Oh, sure. UE5 is way better on fine detail and such. That said, SC's characters look better than most other games, other than some of the equipped items clipping through everything.
reef bobcat
im also a player who plays project zomboid, graphics are not a big deal to me an...
I like good graphics, but without good gameplay they are meaningless.
Like that first Final Fantasy super-CGI movie. Gorgeous, but godawful lol.
ornate fractal
AoC is one of my top 3 favorite MMO experiences. The pvp was so good in that gam...
AoC is what started my dream character build - polearm was originally gonna be a Dexterity-based weapon. Now I've wanted a crit-heavy plate-wearing Dextank in every game. Some have come close. Avowed came close. And I say it here often hoping maybe a Dev will notice and agree. ๐
timber prism
AoC is what started my dream character build - polearm was originally gonna be a...
I want another game to do something as good as AOC Bear Shaman
My favorite healer class in a video game
ornate fractal
They were super badass :D
timber prism
Fatalities were so cool haha
ornate fractal
Hang on, I gotta go invincible so I can focus my full energy on throwing my swords into this guy's belly.
misty arch
ornate fractal
@half geode My hubby just picked up Draw Steel and is pillaging it for game ideas. He loves to try out and sometimes integrate mechanics or concepts from other games for our 5E mutant Frankenstein sessions.
half geode
<@220129206770597888> My hubby just picked up Draw Steel and is pillaging it for...
Oooh good game choice. I havent played it myself but hankering to get it as well.
Best way to see it as a hybrid version of previous editions. If im thinking of the right settings, your characters are powerful up until a long rest ^_^
ornate fractal
Oooh good game choice. I havent played it myself but hankering to get it as well...
He's really into it so I expect our game to mutate even more. It's been going semi-regularly for 4 years at this point.
half geode
He's really into it so I expect our game to mutate even more. It's been going se...
Oooh have fuuun!!!
Im delving into Eberron myself and its magical mischief. 5th edition but looking at daggerheart and Draw Steel.
Mutant frankenstein sessions sound sweet
ornate fractal
He and I agree that the mythology of DND isn't very interesting but that the more progressive move it's made lately is helpful; he likes abstractions, instead of crunchy, and I prefer super-lite systems like Index Card RPG, so he is constantly trying new stuff. He's remaking Battlemaster from the ground up lately. XD
half geode
If you enjoy it go for it ๐ I'm one for the source books and flipping them on their heads myself ๐ Stradh with a twist, Defend the Mines of Phandelvar, Steal the Waterdeep Dragonheist
reef bobcat
<@220129206770597888> My hubby just picked up Draw Steel and is pillaging it for...
Illustrated Spellbook just did a video on it. Does not sound like my style, but it does sound like a fun meat grinder for a one shot or something.
See exactly how much abuse they can and will take before resting ๐
ornate fractal
See exactly how much abuse they can and will take before resting ๐
Spoken like a villainous DM.
reef bobcat
I am a friendly GM. I want to give you the story arc you want.
Note: All story arcs are The Hero's Journey. Suffering builds character.
ornate fractal
I am a friendly GM. I want to give you the story arc you want.
Note: All stor...
I'm just teasing, buddy. Me and hubby have very similar primary philosophies about how to run a game or story; give the players many chances to shine and feel cool. He refers to it as the rule if cool and lets it override most mechanics in pursuit of inspiring players to reach for the stars and be hungry.
tepid wadi
Doing cool shit is a big reason why we play games in general ๐
ornate fractal
Doing cool shit is a big reason why we play games in general ๐
Yes, which is why my games feature as little math and reference tables as possible haha.
tepid wadi
Totally fair, though some people thrive off the math stuff; I'm a big minmaxer, not even for the purpose of power gaming, just because I lke to play efficiently
ornate fractal
Totally fair, though some people thrive off the math stuff; I'm a big minmaxer, ...
I've done it all from AD&D to Mage: the Ascension to BESM and I'll tell ya my fave system is the most minimal one I've ever encountered, called Index Card RPG. The game should get out of the way, I'm here to surf on lava while wailing on a digital lute!
tepid wadi
oh man, someone else who has played BESM? Is this real life?
reef bobcat
I'm just teasing, buddy. Me and hubby have very similar primary philosophies abo...
I was joking that my evilness is for your own good ๐
reef bobcat
I've done it all from AD&D to Mage: the Ascension to BESM and I'll tell ya my fa...
I prefer HERO System. 6th Edition. The main rules are simple, just two 500 page tomes.
But I have all but given up on TTRPG now.
tepid wadi
I currently only really play Pathfinder 2 because it's what my main group likes, experimenting with systems is always a good time though.
reef bobcat
Nobody wants to play my way, and the standard murder hobo video game rampage is not my style.
ornate fractal
Nobody wants to play my way, and the standard murder hobo video game rampage is ...
reef bobcat
Uh... not sure what that implies there ๐
I want to run games like the old Dragonlance writers did. Story and character driven.
Not cool monster of the week. ๐
ornate fractal
Uh... not sure what that implies there ๐
It's from the uhhh questionable video game Postal (which features murder hobory as a main aspect with some satire).
reef bobcat
Ah, yeah never played that, for the same reasons as above.
tepid wadi
I want to run games like the old Dragonlance writers did. Story and character d...
Just gotta find the right group of players. It's tough, for sure.
reef bobcat
35 years plus of trying.