other-games

[peak marsh]

Not a literal puzzle, just like how the virtues and pacts in the game work (effectively class skills and stats)

The game isn't very clear about it right now and they don't use common terminology. Like, you can glean basically what they're for but I like to know the nuts and bolts

[sweet patrol]

Yeah it takes some getting used to. though I am loving it so far

[peak marsh]

Same, I love the atmosphere and the combat is a lot more fluid than I was expecting from some of the early reviews I saw months ago

[sweet patrol]

Yeah the hills and forests are so very well done

[timber prism]

Just wait till you hit bad rng

And go days without progress

Also @peak marsh

💀

Saw this posted about the update

[peak marsh]

Yeah, everyone's still annoyed they haven't optimized yet, which, fair point

[timber prism]

Im curious if this update made it way worse because it wasnt great already at launch

Also agreed on it being fair. Devs relying on frame gen for okay fps shouldn't become the standard

[sweet patrol]

I never got peoples issue with it and ues I am one of those "but my games runs perfect" guys. is it realy that bad??

I mean I an running a 4090 and get about 100 fps. never any tearing or glitching and it looks perfect. no framegen either. So I dont get how its that bad for some unless they are waaay underspec

[timber prism]

saying you have a 4090 not running into issues is crazy bc thats a super high end card lmao

most people with PC's have a 4060 or 3060

as of 2025

[sweet patrol]

I honestly didnt think that was high end. I mean its a prebuilt from best buy that only cost me 1200 usd

[timber prism]

i have a 3080 and its bounces between 45-60 with dlss

which is still playable

but you def see the hiccups

[sweet patrol]

I woulda though a 3080 would still be killing it thats what my wife has and she stays around 80 fps

[timber prism]

there ain't no way

[sweet patrol]

she hasnt played since 2 months after launch though

[timber prism]

my system is a 7800x3D 64 gigs of ram, 3080

and i have never had 80 fps

XD

i do have a 9800x3D sitting on my shelf since like December

but im too lazy to actually swap it in haha

[sweet patrol]

3080 with I think 12 gigs of vram and 32 normal ram with a ryzen 9

[timber prism]

my benchmarks were decent but thats like fake tests

its not really in game playing

[sweet patrol]

yeah the bench is a trap 🤣

But yeah she hit between 70 and 80 most times while playing. now thats not 4K just 1080

My work rig runs the keck outa the game though but it has a 5090 32GB GDDR7

[timber prism]

my bench

like that isn't okay XD

especially with World being at like 130+

[sweet patrol]

yeah it should be way better. you would think some of the optimizations from world woulda translated

[peak marsh]

Especially because Capcom pulled a fast one in the first place. They knew the optimization wasn't ready but pushed it out for $70 anyhow so they could boost their quarterly profits, and now it's been over 6 months since release and still nothing. An indie dev would be pushing it in that case but they're one of the largest developers in Japan

[sweet patrol]

I do think they will fix it but they will take their sweet time

[timber prism]

it reminds me of microsoft

i think it was Nier

or some other game.. took them 2 years to put out a patch

[sweet patrol]

See thats why I love studios loke DE, Keen and a few others they put US first

[timber prism]

I just wish people cared what they spent their money on

bc even after all of this.. im sure the new Resident Evil is gonna get huge sales XD

and people are gonna forget about Mon Hun being poorly optimized

[peak marsh]

I mean even the negative review bombing on Steam doesn't help because it was already the biggest selling game of the year and I'm pretty sure that still stands

[sweet patrol]

See for me a deff care about what I spend but I also KNOW my rig will run the pants off whatever I throw at it.

[peak marsh]

Top-Selling Games in the US (Year-to-Date, likely through May 2025):
Monster Hunter: Wilds
Assassin's Creed: Shadows
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Remastered
Call of Duty: Black Ops 6
MLB: The Show 25
Kingdom Come: Deliverance II

[sweet patrol]

Though I do wish it wouldnt render the flashbang so well every time I open the doors to my base in enshrouded.......

[peak marsh]

Honestly aside from Kingdom Come that list is kinda gross

[timber prism]

all those games are easily digestible games

even after all the drama.. Shadows still sold well XD

[peak marsh]

We have an unfinished product, an AC game, a remaster of a 20 year old game, a live service shooter, and another yearly sports roster update

[sweet patrol]

I would not call KCD easily digestible. that game chewed me up and spit me right back out

[timber prism]

i was going off Rhoisaad's comment about aside from KCD

[vague galleon]

Kingdom Come Deliverince?

[sweet patrol]

Yes

[timber prism]

I'll be honest.. im not a fan of KCD

or KCD2 lmao

[peak marsh]

Just shows how meaningless internet drama is xD

[sweet patrol]

My wife loves them

[timber prism]

People love Witcher 3

XD

[vague galleon]

ya i got bored. what killed me on it was trying to find some dude to talk to for a murder mystery, couldnt find him, if he even existed.

i like the melee combat over Elder Scrolls though.

[timber prism]

i think the funniest part about KCD2 is how there have it has been completely snubbed by other games for GOTY talks

[vague galleon]

I'd LOVE a game like elder scrolls but with Mordhau/Chivalry combat but also with magic.

[timber prism]

E33, DS2, and Bananza have completely made people forget about it

[vague galleon]

DS2?

[timber prism]

Death Stranding 2

[vague galleon]

I just really really love a more indepth melee system

seriously?! the walking simulator?!

[timber prism]

oh noes

<.<

i didnt know you were one of those haha

[peak marsh]

Yeah, games like KCD that are sims from small studios get fawned over a lot in the press before they're forgotten about for flashier, shinier games

[vague galleon]

i mean. come on. you're just a mailmain in a weird place.

plus kojima is highly over rated.

he's not that smart, just weird.

[timber prism]

Death Stranding is an amazing series

definitely polarizing

[vague galleon]

i'm sure it has good qualities.

[timber prism]

but to call it a wlaking simulator

[vague galleon]

😛

[timber prism]

is just super room temp IQ talk XD

I agree Kojima is definitely weird

[vague galleon]

come on bro, IQ doesnt mean anything.

[peak marsh]

Is Kojima still pushing to make a movie?

[timber prism]

but the DS series is like its own genre of game

and I have to give him credit for that

I also like Metal Gear

[vague galleon]

"own genre of game" rofl what, explain.

Metal Gear IS cool. >_>

[timber prism]

Action Delivery Game

[vague galleon]

but I do love shitting on MGS2 (great gameplay, awful story)

[timber prism]

I can't think of any other game that does that

[peak marsh]

Metal Gear was definitely a new genre when it came out. Nobody at the time was doing anything remotely similar with the stealth mechanics

[vague galleon]

oh it's not a walking sim, it's a fetch quest.

[timber prism]

and a social builder

its a delivery sandbox game

with a story

[vague galleon]

If your game cant do stealth mechanics as good as metal gear, dont even bother.

[timber prism]

you build roads and paths for people

?

DS literally has stealth in it

[vague galleon]

and im sure it's good cause it's Kojima

[timber prism]

i have been taking over outposts using nothing but a wire

[vague galleon]

im talking in general

[timber prism]

oh okay

[vague galleon]

ive played too many games with ass steath mechanics.

[timber prism]

yeah, it is good.. its very Metal Gear

[peak marsh]

New Splinter Cell when

[timber prism]

I also understand that some people definitely dont like DS haha

cuz it is weird

[vague galleon]

man, you know what game series I kind of like but is lacking in the perfect blend of it's predecessors?
farcry.

[timber prism]

but its unique in a land of copy pasta

[peak marsh]

Far Cry had the unfortunate luck of being tied to Ubi

[timber prism]

I think i stopped liking farcry after 3

[vague galleon]

sooooooooo many games have that unfortunate luck

[timber prism]

i still haven't played the latest one tho

maybe that would bring me back

the one that had the chicken drug dealer

this dude

[peak marsh]

Chicken drug?

[timber prism]

Breaking Bad

[peak marsh]

Ahh

[vague galleon]

first one I played was blood dragon which was sooo good, at least the first playthrough. barely got far in FC1, FC2 was decent but took me forever to get into and when i stopped to play new dawn it was just too boring to get back to. but man I love the weapon breaking.
beat FC3, FC4, loved them. FC5 i hated the story, too depressing and getting new guns was a pain but companinions were peak here, new dawn wasnt too bad, still havent played primal and i havent finished FC6.

[timber prism]

5 was the one through America?

[vague galleon]

FC6 they ruined companions, and healing in the game sucked after 4.

ya.

[timber prism]

i think i would play a new Farcry

[vague galleon]

the setting wasnt bad but the bad guys keep winning and they taunt you in the loading screens.
i beat it and never touched it again.

FC4 had the best healing, FC5 had the best companions.

[timber prism]

i actually wish i had switch 2 right now to play Bananza

T_T

[vague galleon]

monkey game?

same. T-T

[peak marsh]

Vano seems to like it

IDK, the more I read and hear the more I want to wait for another hardware revision

The stick drift issue aside a lot of things about the hardware make me question buying in right now

[vague galleon]

it'll be YEARS before I ever consider getting a S2 and that's IF the economy gets better.

[timber prism]

yah

Monkey game

I hear its really good from friends

[vague galleon]

it looks like a ton of fun.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, everything I've heard is that it's really good. It's from the same dev group that did Mario Galaxy/Odyssey so it's got the Nintendo polish

[timber prism]

im tryna hold off XD

there are only 2 games i wanna play

actually just 1

mario kart i can pass on unless i get the bundle

[vague galleon]

i never bought a WII cause PROJECT HAMMER got cancelled.

[peak marsh]

$500 is a lot to play 1 game

[timber prism]

ehhhh

agreed

but saying that.. i already blew more than triple that on my gacha i been playing for two weeks XD

[vague galleon]

bruh.

judges you

[peak marsh]

I mean yeah there's Prime 4 coming up and it'll probably get years of support but I kind of at least want to see an OLED model

[timber prism]

gacha is my weakness so i try not to play them often

yeah, not being oled is crazy

but to be fair.. i have an Oled TOTK switch

that i haven't even opened

its just sitting there and i just play my OG switch when i do

[peak marsh]

I mean I have no complaints with my Switch Lite, but also my Switch Lite was $250 xD

[vague galleon]

my friend sold me a switch he won for half off otherwise i probably still wouldnt have one.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/427410/Abiotic_Factor/

Steam

Abiotic Factor

Home to the world's greatest minds, GATE operates a global network of secretive research laboratories, spanning every field of scientific study - and the realms beyond.

As a GATE employee you extend the bounds of human knowledge, and seek to explain the unexplainable - including anomalies and paranormal entities: from gravity-distorting art…

Price

$27.99

Recommendations

24137

▶ Play video

what dis? really positive reviews.

[timber prism]

im actually surprised i haven't bought a ps5 pro yet

Abiotic Factor is extremely corny but funny game

[peak marsh]

I'm not familiar with Abiotic Factor other than I know a lot of people love it

[timber prism]

if you can grab it on sale i def recommend it

play it with friends

laugh a lot

[vague galleon]

well when i get some friends I'll try it out.

[peak marsh]

Ah, so it's like an Amongus/Fall Guys kind of thing?

[timber prism]

nah

its a coop game

survival crafter but its kind of like if you turned Half Life into a huge running joke

[timber prism]

@peak marsh I caved and bought the Pokemon Z/A + Switch 2 bundle for $500 XD

[peak marsh]

Is it at least a limited edition Switch?

[timber prism]

nah just a bundle

there aint no way they do a LE this soon

im hoping its a revision tho since it ships out in October

[peak marsh]

Just make sure to shop around before you buy accessories. I guess some cases for handheld mode causes the joycon magnet to disconnect, and as I understand it you don't want to add a screen protector because it comes with one already installed (also don't peel off the "flim" when you first open it, that's the screen protector xD)

Like the Killswitch case in particular had issues where it would cause the joycons to randomly pop off

[peak marsh]

https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/man-breaks-switch-2-after-spray-painting-donkey-kong-bananza-to-mimic-n64-cart-3229436/ -also when you do get Bananza don't spray paint it yellow

[timber prism]

this sounds like such a bad idea XD

[tranquil cove]

did it overheat and melt the paint or something

it expanded? lol

or he layered the paint so thick when there was very little clearance

[vague galleon]

probably too thick

[brazen fern]

Yellow is a very thin colour, so a darker underlying colour will show through. It will take many coats to get full coverage, especially when airbrushing or spraying (many thin coats). Ideally you would spray a primer coat first, white usually, then the yellow. That's my general experience with the colour anyway.

So if the picture is correct, and the cartridge was red first, and they sprayed the yellow directly onto that, it would have taken quite a few layers to build up enough to hide the red coming through. Thick enough to jam the cartridge in the slot

[tranquil cove]

or ideally just sand the cartridge

the plastic is thick enough, you could sand a bit of it off

then paint it yellow, i guess it's not instinctive to check how tightly the cartridge fits into the slot, so they never thought of it.

[timber prism]

@peak marsh Woke up and got into the test I wanted!

[peak marsh]

What game?

[timber prism]

Where Winds Meet!

Its a wuxia open world game sort of like Ghost of Tsushima with multiplayer elements

[peak marsh]

Yeah I've heard of it. Looked cool in the previews

[timber prism]

Yah.. pretty hyped for it. Been wanting a wuxia game on this level for a long time now

Im hoping its truly open world like GoT versus Wukong which really wasnt at all

also.. it has pvp with ranking scores!

[severe jetty]

Let us know what u think!

[misty arch]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/the-outer-worlds-2-will-no-longer-cost-usd80-as-microsoft-backs-away-from-plans-to-follow-nintendos-lead/

[peak marsh]

I mean it's a good thing, but it'd frankly hold more weight if it was Sony. Microsoft is in kind of a desperate and decidedly not-industry-leading position right now

Like it'd be different if it was XB360-era Microsoft

[tranquil cove]

sounds like sony is desperate if they are selling their games too much

microsoft is already rich, they don't need to price gouge in another department

they are just admitting that

[peak marsh]

Sure but if the two biggest players in the console space aren't also doing that the rest of the industry won't follow suit

They'll all do what Sony and Nintendo do. Microsoft is basically backing out of having their own hardware and admitting that Gamepass, one of their biggest perceived success, is actually a money sink. So there's really no reason for other companies to pay attention

So again it's a good thing but I doubt it'll cause many waves

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/pgNCgJG0vnY?si=PtdctHW-WzRhP2tQ

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZdNOp_IfPQ

[timber prism]

@vague galleon @peak marsh @tepid wadi https://youtu.be/RItE-AVPM60?si=W5ghW4WJsgit7Xow

[peak marsh]

NIce. I've had that wishlisted for a while

[warm summit]

just proud of my 2nd game

[tepid wadi]

IDK why top-down MMOs just have never appealed to me

[tepid wadi]

Very nice! I haven't actually played MH in a while, but it's been adding some good stuff

[tepid wadi]

Here's your game idea for the day: Absolver meets Avatar the Last Airbender. Different styles of martial arts for each of the bending styles. The higher rank you get, the more advanced moves you learn, and you can unlock cross-style moves.

[vague galleon]

interesting.

oh wait, it's an MMO? 😦

if I ever play an MMO again it will be runescape.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, top down MMO with pixel-ish graphics

Side note, for being in alpha Soulframe has a really solid foundation

Combat, atmosphere, base systems, voice acting, dungeons, and world are all really well done

[tepid wadi]

I still need to load it up 😝 I've been spending my evenings playing Deadlock and The King Is Watching

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2753900/The_King_is_Watching/

Steam

The King is Watching

Ah, my glorious kingdom! A land where peasants toil, miners dig, and knights train... but only when I look at them! My gaze is law—progress thrives where I watch, but the moment I turn away? Laziness! Chaos! I must choose wisely: should I focus on the fields for food, the mines for riches, or the barracks for defense? With resources,…

Price

$13.49

Recommendations

994

▶ Play video

Little roguelike autobattler that is very addicting

[peak marsh]

Interesting premise

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, it plays real well

And the meta progression is quite solid

[timber prism]

<.<

[vague galleon]

thats sus as heck

[timber prism]

the prompt i gave it was pretty hilarious and i loved the end result

that was even crazier XD

I did not do that

[peak marsh]

Yeah, not sure I'm trusting a chinese developer with my likeness or voice

Well, not so much the developer as the country they're operating from

[tepid wadi]

What game is this?

[timber prism]

Where Winds Meet

[peak marsh]

It's a new action wuxia (chinese martial arts but think over the top like cultivation and qi powers etc) mmo? Open world fighting game? Something like that

Think BDO but with more PVP focus and less of a fantasy setting

[timber prism]

the combat is action based with combos and skills

but more emphasis on dodge and parry/deflect

like sekiro

[tepid wadi]

huh, interesting

Definitely wouldn't give them my voice or face, but...

[obtuse scroll]

Hold your kitty or puppy up to the camera and then you can have animal character O.O

[timber prism]

Enjoying my time in it so far

[tepid wadi]

Yeah... that's not the thing I'd be worried would be held up to the camera if I was putting that system out to the players.

[obtuse scroll]

I wasn't gonna say anything about that

[timber prism]

Everything in this game is absurd

Like I had to actually type a conversation to this npc to get a quest

Luckily not every npc is like this

[vague galleon]

wtf

[tepid wadi]

I mean, I love that idea for "secret" quests and stuff

[peak marsh]

It reminds me of MMOs in the early-mid 00s where they would do that

But of course very simplified. Like you effectively just had to type the right keywords but the idea was you were supposed to be literally typing out questions

For example, they would want you to type something like "Hello, I have come today to see if you have any quests for me?" but you could just type "Hello quest"

[vague galleon]

"take water" fail
"grab water" fail
"grasp water" fail
looks up guide GET WATER?!

[peak marsh]

You forgot the part where the game teases you

"Take water" Don't know how to "take" something

"Grab water" Don't know how to "grab" something

So you wind up digging out a thesaurus just to perform a simple action xD

[vague galleon]

ya, MUDs were strange games.

[tepid wadi]

I grew up on MUDs so I'm all about it, heh

[vague galleon]

i recall a few from when I was a kid, my brother downloaded all sorts of games back in the early days of the internet.

there's one in particualr I WISH I could find again but no luck. and he doesnt remember any of it somehow. :S

[peak marsh]

But I'm not necessarily talking about MUDs, in the early - mid 00s a few MMOs tried to incorporate that kind of MUD style of 'conversational dialog' into their NPCs and well, you don't see it nowadays for a reason xD

[vague galleon]

I bet!

[tepid wadi]

I think Ubisoft is actually working on AI to bring this back for all NPCs in games. It's honestly one of the more interesting uses for the tech that I could see existing in a MMO

[vague galleon]

ubisoft will mess it up. they always do.

[peak marsh]

MMO NPCs are one of the few applications for AI I can see being preferable in games

[vague galleon]

spies vs mercs was so good and they did nothing to manage it.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, Ubi is good at 3 things: egregious monetization, making excuses, and screwing the pooch

[tepid wadi]

Large corps are like that, unfortunately

[peak marsh]

Just finished watching a video where they blame "coordinated efforts" as a reason for middling recent reviews, so once again blaming the players for their games not taking off

[vague galleon]

i was really annoyed how they ruined healing in farcry.
in 3 and 4 you had a slow free heal, and a fast use an item heal.
in 5 or so they made the use an item heal slow and annoying. X[ and no free heal.

but 5 had the BEST companion system.

[peak marsh]

But also in the same breath saying that players "appreciate the freedom of choice" MTX add to single player games because "it allows them the option for customizing or speeding up progress", all the while breezing right past the fact that customization used to be free and people only want to speed up progress because you've made progress a convoluted, grindy chore

Like it's right up there with EA and their "surprise mechanics" excuse

[vague galleon]

ya

staps you in the kidney Surprise!

[tepid wadi]

That's one of the reasons why I feel like having a straight subscription with no MTX would be pretty well received by players. No fuss, no muss, everyone pays the same amount, all customization is in-game and it allows the dev team to focus wholly on making the game as good as possible

[vague galleon]

also one thing I like that runescape does is there's a free option. and then, if you get a membership for awhile, but then need to take a break, you can still keep playing the free version.

[tranquil cove]

i hate subscriptions

why do i need to pay every year

i dont even buy netflix or streaming

[vague galleon]

wow is the worst. you pay PER expansion, AND have to pay for a subscription.

[tranquil cove]

just sell the game 120$ but give me lifetime use

tell me what your game is worth without subscription, or if you do subscription give me a lifetime purchase option

[burnt spear]

I mean, I buy every Expac for FFXIV and I've had an active sub since ARR launched, sooooo....

[vague galleon]

one or the other. pick one. you're already doing mtx on top of it.

[burnt spear]

I paid $300 for a lifetime sub when LotRO launched. 18 years later and I can still go back and play it as a subbed player. Do the math, the lifetime sub was WAAAAY under valued.

[tepid wadi]

I mean, for a live service game with continued support, a subscription makes sense. You know what you're paying for

"Buy once, play forever" is great for games that aren't getting continual development

[vague galleon]

sure, but i've played enough mmos to know the quality of content is rarely there.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I mean it's the dev team's responsibility to make it worth paying the subscription

If it's not, that's how the game dies

[vague galleon]

or people just have a problem. I just dont see the appeal of wow and I played it for 3 months.
a friend wanted the flying cat mount and paid for the whole thing to get it, then went to FF14.

i do feel a bit guilty cause I grumpled most of the time. boy did I not like wow.

[tepid wadi]

Different people have different priorities 🤷‍♀️ I generally don't mind paying for things that show promise, but definitely won't let a subscription run if I'm not enjoying the thing.

I think a way you can blend the "subscription + box price" model is make it so when you pay the box price for the game or expansions, it comes with a certain amount of subscription attached

[vague galleon]

oh ya for sure like, 1-3 months.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, exactly

[vague galleon]

I'd totally accept that.

[tepid wadi]

Even better if you do something like "If you've been subbed since the last expansion continually, you get this expansion for free"

Like, at that point you're a devoted player, and rewarding that builds trust and even more commitment

[vague galleon]

ya, like I know the devs gotta get paid but as a consumer I need to feel my money is worth it.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah exactly

Gamers in general understand that it can't JUST be a passion project, and to get continued development, they need to continyally pay. But it needs to give you the right amount of content and enjoyment for the amount that you pay.

[tranquil cove]

of course its under valued, but did you play every year for 18 years?

[vague galleon]

although the way GTA did it is kind of brutal. >_> if you look at shark card prices. I almost would have been willing to pay 20-30 bucks per updates.

[tranquil cove]

i never said it wouldn't be under valued, but thats the companies fault.

if you want to value it and think the value is $1000 make it $1000

just give me an option for what you think your game is worth for a lifetime

[tepid wadi]

I mean... that's kickstarter, but in reverse, heh

[burnt spear]

I played it solidly for 7 of them. That alone is $1260. 4x what I paid.

[tranquil cove]

and are you representative of the average player?

or does the average player play 1 year and then not play for 2 years, and then play 1 year etc.

[burnt spear]

At the time I was playing it, I probably was.

[jagged tree]

Star Citizen,anyone playing ?

[tranquil cove]

well then they can price it at $1000, like i said it's not the issue, the issue is i hate subscriptions, give me a price for what you think your game is worth in total.

then i can choose to buy it for lifetime, or ignore the game

[burnt spear]

That's unreasonable for a live service game when you have no idea how long it will be around.

[tranquil cove]

20 years

standard

its not unreasonable

[burnt spear]

Tell that to the 5 iterations of Bless.

[tranquil cove]

you have full price, subscription, or don't buy? why cant i get a full price option?

the game devs like using terms of service, they can always give a full price option, and TOS it saying that it's valid for 7 years maximum, or whatever they think the minimum lifetime of their game will be.

these are semantics to me

[burnt spear]

Even "popular" live service games can die at any moment, and you never know what the cost of continuing to provide content will be. It's like trying to say, "Give me the price to buy all the gas I'll need for the next 20 years".

[tranquil cove]

the core idea i am proposing is to give me a full price option

[tepid wadi]

Star Citizen is a really interesting case study in game development, heh

[tranquil cove]

that's nice, the TOS can say that to me

when i choose to buy the game for $1000

just give me a full price option.

[tepid wadi]

I dunno, you should be able to forecast reasonably what your expenses will be.

Are you saying that you want a "full price for the lifetime of the live service" option?

Where you pay a massive lump sum for how long they expect to support it?

[tranquil cove]

im saying its all semantics

they dev can decide the terms of the price

for example

[tepid wadi]

It's not semantics, there are significant implications on how you choose your price point and payment style.

[tranquil cove]

holy shiiii let me write the example

stop typing

[tepid wadi]

There's a reason free to play MTX + Battlepass has become a standard practice across the industry

[tranquil cove]

for example, if i am a game dev, and i have a live service game. i can base my price on the average amount people play live service games, there is probably industry data that is reliable even despite some games being more popular than others. so lets say this data says people play the games for a maximum of 3 years on average. then if i wanted to i could base my price on 3 years of subscription. likewise i can choose not to do this. because i am the one determining the full price of my game. i don't need to be this nice.

so i could guarantee 5 years of the game functioning based on how much money i have in the bank, and projections. and i can sell my game full price for 5 years. of if i am a triple A company that already has a history of hosting live service games for 7+ years, then i can full price it for 7+ years of service.

if I want I can even sell the game for 20+ years of service, but say in the TOS that there is no guaruntee the game will even run for 1 year. It's all on the customer to decide if they want to buy the full price based on the terms presented. aka I WANT THE OPTION. I SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION, regardless of the semantics. I will decide if the semantics are worth it based on what the game dev is telling me the contract and the price is.

[tranquil cove]

because people keep buying subscription, if nobody bought subscriptions we'd get full price games, and probably a standard for keeping the live service alive.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, except no company can actually do that. If you were to provide a "5 year buy" but then you don't get enough purchases of the game to get to that timeframe, you've defrauded your customers and will have to refund them, so no one is going to bother doing it.

That's not why at all. It's because it makes the most money

[tranquil cove]

i didn't say this as an only option, its on top of subcriptions for 1 year. a second option. another way to buy the game.

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLCC31MjKT0 - Welp, not a huge fan of that. TL;DR Eleventh Hour Games (Last Epoch) was purchased by Krafton, who is the publisher currently in the whole shady situation with Subnautica 2

[vague galleon]

:S I wish I had refunded last epoch when I had the chance.

[quaint ember]

Last Epoch as well? Oh no 😦

[vague galleon]

60 bucks wasted.

[tepid wadi]

That's what I mean though. If you offer the 5 year subscription option and you don't sell enough copies of your game and subscription service to survive for 5 years, your customers are going to ask for refunds on that option.

[tranquil cove]

the terms say no refunds

[tepid wadi]

So no dev team is going to sell something they don't know they can fulfill. Running a live service game is EXPENSIVE and you can't promise that level of long term survival

[tranquil cove]

steam has 14 day return policy, everyone knows this when they choose the full price option.

[quaint ember]

ToS doesn't mean it's legal 😄

[tepid wadi]

You'll still get lawsuits and stuff that you aren't fulfilling your service terms, which are expensive when your game is already failing, heh

[quaint ember]

You cant turn round and sell something claiming it'll be there for 5 years and then have small print saying we may not be here in a week. You'd have no company left if you done that 😄

[tranquil cove]

what live service ended in under 5 years from a well known game company?

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I'm really not a big fan of this either, but we'll see how Krafton handles it.

[tepid wadi]

Concord

Literally recently, it died instantly

[tranquil cove]

not small print, big print in red, flashing on the screen.

[quaint ember]

Font size doesn't matter.....

All of ToS is small print...

[peak marsh]

A lot more than that lately, but yeah Concord is the flaming bus wreck in the middle of the room xD

[tepid wadi]

Yeah that's why I used it as an example

[tranquil cove]

ill have someone from the game company come to your doorbell and remind you it's not refundable, and get your signature. 10% of the full price of the game will go toward paying for that. it's legal, just stop.

[quaint ember]

What was that Tarkov that tried scamming people and literally got made to refund everyone whether they wanted a refund or not?

[tepid wadi]

NO game is going to promise that level of 5-year commitment, it's a silly request. The best you could is things like the LOTRO example where it was a "lifetime subscription" for however long the game stays alive.

[tranquil cove]

no one can demand refunds or win lawsuits if you do things legally like this

[tranquil cove]

then dont promise

[tepid wadi]

By offering the package, you are creating that promise

[tranquil cove]

if i knew i could do 5 years, i would promise it.

if i knew i couldn't i wouldn't. did you not read the paragraph i wrote? it explains all this.

you are still arguing semantics.

[quaint ember]

Most businesses can barely promise a year ahead, let alone 5 😄

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, that's the point. No one knows they can offer that, that's what I'm telling you

[tranquil cove]

yes they know based on how much money they have in the bank, and sales

[tepid wadi]

No dev team can guarantee they're going to survive longer than maybe a few months (before they get their first sales numbers)

[tranquil cove]

they know something

or they dont need to promise anything

[peak marsh]

I mean that's what SKG is all about. The entire problem is it's legal for companies to charge full product price for something they don't tell you how long they're going to support it for, then literally take it away from you when they deicde to. In the case of The Crew they literally deleted the data from user hard drives

[tepid wadi]

They have projections, but they don't know

[tranquil cove]

they dont need to promise then DID YOU NOT READ WHERE I SAID THAT

its up to the game company

[tepid wadi]

I don't think you're understanding my point

[tranquil cove]

you have no point, you assume you know the law better than me

maybe i am lawyer

[tepid wadi]

No, my point is that dev teams don't know that they can survive, so they aren't going to offer that option

[quaint ember]

. . .

[vague galleon]

rofl

[peak marsh]

You certainly argue like one xD

[tranquil cove]

they dont need to offer that option!

[vague galleon]

Mr break NDA thinks he understands the law.

[tranquil cove]

you clearly cant read

[tepid wadi]

If you're going to be able to pay for that much time, they have to offer the option for you to pay it

?????

[tranquil cove]

can you read?

they can sell a full price option and say there are guaruntees if you buy it

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, THE OPTION, like you said. They have to create a way for you do DO the thing you want

[tranquil cove]

its legally allowed

you can do this

no one can win a lawsuit against you

[tepid wadi]

I'm telling you that no one IS GOING TO offer the option. Not because of legality, because of confidence

[tranquil cove]

confidence in what?

[tepid wadi]

Confidence that their game is going to last long enough for you to get the value from the thing you're purchasing

[quaint ember]

And when people feel screwed over, they will challenge it, costing both sides huge amounts of money plus a MASSIVE reputation hit which then kills the company in the end so why would ANYONE want to say something like that?

[tepid wadi]

Whatever, the option is

You keep asking if I can read, but you don't seem to actually read the things I'm writing and it's getting a bit frustrating.

[quaint ember]

Legality works both ways but you know what makes or breaks a company? The consumer ^^

[tranquil cove]

here is my game, it has a $60 yearly subscription, and $600 full price buy in, you can do either, if you pay $600 for full price, the game is not guarunteed to last a lifetime, or 20 years, or even 1 year. the RISK is yours to choose that option , but you can decide if that option is good for you and worth the risk.

i dont see why a game company cant do this, or what you're on about

[tepid wadi]

Yep, and what I'm telling you is that the "full price" payment option is an option that zero dev teams are going to offer.

It's not that they can't

It's that they won't

[tranquil cove]

okay, sure, they wont do that. evidenced by how nobody has done that yet.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, that's my point

[tranquil cove]

but i said i would like that option

thats all im saying

[quaint ember]

Not to mention, from a legal standpoint, the company would have to prove they have a legitimate strategy to achieve their timeframe - and reason for charging such prices - otherwise it is literal fraud, should it come into question ^^

[tepid wadi]

That's nice. Players get upset when there are more expensive versions of games right now. Digital Delux, Collectors edition, etc. And t hose are in more "normal" price ranges. If you were to do a MASSIVE "full price" version that gives players no benefit other than "I believe in the comapny" you're going to get laughed out of the room instantly.

[tranquil cove]

im sure lots of people would still choose the full price option

people who dont demand refunds because they knew the risks

[tepid wadi]

So no one is going to bother offering the option, because it looks bad and their reputation would fall apart. It's actually WORSE for established companies because they would instantly look like money grubbing goobers that no one would want to support any more.

Can you imagine if EA or Ubisoft did something like that? hahahaha

[tranquil cove]

they already look that way with subscriptions

i dont see a difference

thats why i dont buy subscriptions

[tepid wadi]

You can cancel a subscription at any time, it's a pretty big difference.

[tranquil cove]

at least with a full price option there is a chance i get some value back, like malzian did when he paid $300 for that game.

[tepid wadi]

You pay per month because you can evaluate every month if it's still providing you value

If it's not? Cancel the sub. If you want to play again? Resub. It's pretty easy

[tranquil cove]

and some people like subscriptions for that reason. but there are some games that i know the dev can mess up 100 times, and i would still like based on core concepts providing value still and the lore/theme.

its not like the dev will totally delete the building system that you already saw in a building game, and turn the game into a tower defense on the fly.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah that's why we keep getting star wars games even when a lot of them are mediocre, but that's a very differen situation.

[tepid wadi]

There was a kickstarter game that did this, actually. It was gonna be an MMO but they instead made a city builder.

I can't remember it's name right now though

[tranquil cove]

but thats pre release

[tepid wadi]

It's after people paid for a MMO though

[peak marsh]

Things like this have literally happened. New World players were fameously upset when they turned their open world PVP game into a primarily PVE theme park game

[tepid wadi]

They literally changed the game they were building AFTER the kickstarter ended. It was a big scandal

[peak marsh]

Literally removing an aspect of the game

[tranquil cove]

PVP turning to PVE is different than making a building game into an an action game with zero building, after release.

[quaint ember]

Tell that to PVP'ers 😄

[tranquil cove]

its a common theme that hardcore pvp games become PVE oriented over time, or can become that way.

happened in ultima online in 1999

[burnt spear]

There is no real way for either a game company or a user to truly evaluate what the value of a live service game that has no specific lifespan might be. Even using industry standards is wrong. These days you put out 1 bad expansion on a live service game, or heck... You make 1 update to systems after 5 years and that can kill your game outright. Offering a "full value price" for such a game is a fool's errand and it will end up costing one side or the other a bunch of money.

[tranquil cove]

people are aware of this possibility already

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, and they hate it, which is the point

There's always huge outcry when it happens

[peak marsh]

I'm trying to remember, which was the company that completely pivoted on their MMORPG and turned it into a Battle Royale before it completely tanked?

[tranquil cove]

live service shouldnt exist then

which is why i never support it

imagine if all games were live service and you had to fork over money every year? is that the future you want?

[burnt spear]

That's your opinion and you can have it, but it exists and it's not going away. Don't support it if you don't want to, that's your choice to make.

[tepid wadi]

Okay 👍

[burnt spear]

But I guarantee... It's not going anywhere.

[quaint ember]

You fork over money every year for gaming... it has nothing to do with individual games 😄

[tranquil cove]

the game company should give me a fixed price for the game, regardless of how long it runs. these guys are already filthy rich.

[peak marsh]

Not when EA/Activision can basically print money every time they release a new COD

[quaint ember]

It's your choice what game you throw your money at 🤷

[tranquil cove]

they aren't losing money, they are losing some of their profits if they value it wrong

good?

i dont want them to be filthy rich

[burnt spear]

I'm throwing the flag on this conversation. You've expressed your opinion, and you can have it, but this is just going to continue going in circles so let's just agree to disagree and move on.

[tepid wadi]

Somewhat related, the new battlefield trailer looks pretty sick. It's not really my main type of game but fingers crossed that it's good.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, if only for fans of the series. Battlefield hasen't seen much love lately

So speaking of Krafton buying Eleventh Hour, feels bad man

[timber prism]

I keep hoping get to relive the days of Bad Company 2 but that Battlefield glory will never exist anymore

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I'm not sure why EHG went with a publisher, I feel like the whole company was made around the concept of NOT being shackled to industry bs

[timber prism]

Especially when EA makes crazy expectations like 100 million players XD

[tepid wadi]

Yeah that one was definitely a... choice statement

[peak marsh]

And companies wonder why AAA is collapsing under it's own weight xD

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlEHovdeKZw

[tranquil cove]

kind of agree, the games in question have issues.

you can still play 18+ or NSFW games with sexual content, but games with specific content will probably not get listed. the end of the day they dont have enough safe guards in place on steam to 100% ensure that a game, is not played by someone underrage (when games themselves attract children). and i would even argue the games they are targetting need a higher age threshold. 22+ years old.

so they would need a whole new age category.

if it matters boycott the credit card company

also i am arguing that the law should change, so that the credit cards actions are backed by law.

so what i am saying goes beyond your defense

i guess ideally the credit cards dont do anything we put in better laws, or terms on steam for what games are allowed.

[vague galleon]

those in power will never do logical things.

[timber prism]

the worst part of this is nothing illegal has happened but they are bowing down to them regardless

[tranquil cove]

its a grey area, i think we need more laws/regulation

[timber prism]

Pretty much haha

[tranquil cove]

for example these games feature ||incest, and none consent themes|| which could be acceptable, if both are roleplayed in the game, except the game creators take the position that because it's a game itself, it's fictional, and therefore portrays something non realistic, even though the characters in the game believe it to be real and arent roleplaying. so contextually, the way its presented in the game is not acceptable in society. even though those things would be acceptable in roleplay scenarios in real life.

and my personal opinion is that people who are 18 who might have emotional regulation issues or already have misogynistic world views could be emboldened by such content or affected by it, because 18 year olds imo are largely still developing, even though they are considered adults. this is why i strongly think a new age category is required on steam for content like this, like 22+ as well as a sure fire way to verify such age.

plus maybe just dont allow this content unless it's specifically being roleplayed by the characters in the game.

[vague galleon]

it's just a game, who cares, it's not real. shouldnt have a steam account or a credit card to buy games unless you're 18 anyway.

actually ya, how are kids buying these games? they're not. their parents are.

[timber prism]

not necessarily though

kids get gift cards for bdays etc.

[tranquil cove]

well the none consent matters because its specifically depicting sexual violence toward women.

[timber prism]

can*

but regardless of that.. parents should know what games their kids are playing

that is on the parents

Giving power to a third party to dictate what people can and can't purchase is just crazy

speaking of purchases.. i need to cancel my switch 2 @peak marsh XD

[peak marsh]

My issue is that lobbyist groups are using credit card processors to push agendas. Whether the games are agreeable or not, it's less about what is being censored than it is about who is doing the censoring. It's this for now, what happens if some powerful religious lobby group decides that Diablo, Dark Souls, and Path of Exile are unacceptable?

[sweet patrol]

And at the end of the day what happened is just the START of what they will try to do. Groups like that will start with the more extreme obscure things like that but they WILL start coming after any game with content they dot approve of.

[timber prism]

I got an email from Amazon and I got a Switch 2 Mario Kart arriving next week XD

[peak marsh]

It's the door it opens up that's the problem

[timber prism]

I am here to BANANZA

[timber prism]

Yeah.. this is crazy can of worms to open

[obtuse scroll]

You guys, this is more https://discord.com/channels/1046840540550942720/1105417250065879150 instead of Other games. Let's move on to more game related subjects

[vague galleon]

i saw that.

[timber prism]

I saw that edit

<.<

.>

[peak marsh]

I mean, it's heavily related, but yeah I had the conversation with Toast the other day there

[vague galleon]

its related enough to games.

[peak marsh]

It's just something that warrants being aware of the situation

[timber prism]

I need to drive. Update us on your Soulframe journey, Rhoisaad

Xd

[sweet patrol]

Ah Soulframe loving it!

[timber prism]

and @sweet patrol

[peak marsh]

Still enjoying it, but I can't get a nettle to drop >.<

[vague galleon]

im bloody tired.

[timber prism]

Yeah.. my drop rng has been SO BAD

lmaoooo

[sweet patrol]

I have like 50 or so nettle plans🤣

[timber prism]

i just need to upgrade some stuff and its driving me bananas

i know its supposed to be random

but like.. it really curbs progression

to a standstill when you can't upgrade the npc bc of 1 item XD

it happened to me on a previous build too

so i was hoping they adjusted it

but NOPE

[sweet patrol]

I just got my blacksmith to lvl 3 today finnaly making a new pact

[timber prism]

siiiick

i forgot what class it was but i really like the birb sorc

haha

[peak marsh]

WTB nettle

[sweet patrol]

I wish I could! i miss the trading in WF

[timber prism]

we need to make a nettle meme

[peak marsh]

Yeah that's a thing, getting NPCs upgraded is a whole lot of RNG

[timber prism]

with one guy having millions

and everyone else is like begging for it

[vague galleon]

refrains

[sweet patrol]

I mean getting her to lvl 3 only took me crafting 5 things

[timber prism]

if you can get to crafting 5 different things

cuz you need the drops XD

[sweet patrol]

I went for the basic starter stuff you get the schematics for so they were light on the resources

[peak marsh]

I did finally get my first mote. It's not amazing, +2 spirit, but that one is another pain point having to repeatedly revisit locations to maybe get one or two

[timber prism]

the good thing is that its so far out

[tranquil cove]

when the game releases do you start all over again? or you keep all progress?

[timber prism]

they have a lot of time to adjust it

[sweet patrol]

I havnt gotten a mote as of yet

[sweet patrol]

warframe didnt after the closed alpha so I doubt this one will. they have said it wont

[peak marsh]

I've heard both. Some say it resets at launch, others are saying they're going to let people keep progress. I more believe the former because they're going to want people to spend money and right now there's no currency so for example, you can customize for free

But like Jabberwocky said WF didn't revert so hopefully they do that here too

[sweet patrol]

But there are no customization s yet?

[peak marsh]

You can customize armor colors

[tranquil cove]

do we know the launch price or it's in game purchases like warframe?

[peak marsh]

There's an NPC you have to unlock

[sweet patrol]

oh yeah the rat lasy

I just mean no fancy skins or anything

[peak marsh]

Free with purchases like WF

Yeah, no skins or anything

At least not at the moment

I do find quest tracking is still in need of some work. Compass markers in general really. I'll have a crow icon leading me to my next fable and my compass will disappear, or I'll use my sparrow to track it and suddenly it's pointing me to a faction quest and the fable quest is just gone, or I'll set a custom map marker and it'll just randomly disappear and I have to remark it

[vague galleon]

let me know when it hits 1.0 and if you're still playing it i might try some co-op.

[tranquil cove]

i have 1200 hours in warframe, and god level warframes, mostly done by grinding and making platinum on the market... will be nice to grind out another game. would you say soulframe is equal, more or less grind than warframe?

[peak marsh]

Pretty similar so far. It doesn't have as much stuff as WF does but it's alpha. The grind for things like resources and recipes (weapons/armor) is pretty similar

I will say it feels more "soulsy" and less fast paced than WF does, but I'd say it's in a good way. Combat feels a little more deliberate and getting chains of attacks to land just right to wipe out a group feels satisfying

[peak marsh]

Oh, also you have these factions who have shops with unique items and gear, and you have to grind up reputation levels but also you use reputation points to buy the items, so if you're max leveling each faction you can have tons of missions to grind up

Like there's basic knight/mage/ranger factions but you can switch factions at any time and you keep you level and points in your old faction, so it's possible to max level each faction and get all of their uniques

[tranquil cove]

ahh yeah it's like warframe, it's basically the warframe on earth content or something 😭 i was hoping they would do something less quest grind based and more sandboxed with skills you level up, and exploration.

[peak marsh]

There's that too. You can roam the map and stumble into dungeons or random quests or boss fights

[tranquil cove]

but combat is based on items and and character level, more than sword fighting skill, right?

[peak marsh]

The world is completely open and pretty big, it's not like WF where you teleport to a level from your ship. Those missions are all found on the map and every time you step into a dungeon it's randomly generated

So even if it's the same dungeon, it's a different dungeon

Eh, both. Leveling your weapon and your pact are huge for your damage, but you can take on stuff way above your level if you're patient

[tranquil cove]

so you're saying overall even with the grind elements the same, its a better game than warframe?

i just signed up for the beta, so we'll see if i get in

[peak marsh]

For me it feels better. The world is more open and organic in the sense that you feel like you're exploring and not just doing levels, and the combat feels a lot more weighty and satisfying

[tranquil cove]

sounds good

[peak marsh]

One thing I enjoy is the map is completely covered in fog until you find world trees, and nothing in game really tells you where they are, so you're incentivized to explore the world and look around and find things

Aside from pointing you to certain quests the game is very hands off, once you're past the tutorial you're on your own

[tranquil cove]

kind of a hell divers 2 feature then 😆

or maybe even enshrouded

[peak marsh]

Kind of. I'd say more Enshrouded because once you find the world tree it opens up that section of the map

But exploring doesn't uncover it. Until you find the world tree you're completely in fog

At first it felt kind of frustrating but it got me looking at the world more and my map less

Now the only time I'm really using the map is to get my bearings or if I need to visit a location to uncover it's name

The game has a system where when you first discover a location, the name is a bunch of garbled runes because "the knowledge has been lost", so you have to find pieces of lost knowledge to uncover the name. Completely revealing the name reveals details about the location but also some give you powerful passive items you can attach to your gear called Motes

[tranquil cove]

oh sweet, sounds interesting

[peak marsh]

The Motes give modifiers to your skills or weapons, like for instance I found one that gives me +2 to my spirit stat, which doesn't scale my damage because that's for mage but it makes the effect of my skills last longer

The stats are called Virtues and you have Courage, Spirit, and Grace. At the most basic weapons scale based on which type they are, so most swords scale from Courage, bows from Grace, staffs from Spirit etc, but additionally Courage makes some skills deal a bit more damage, Grace makes some skills have a wider range of effect, and Spirit makes some skills last longer

So like on my ranger I have a skill that makes me turn into a cluster of butterflies and makes me invisible to enemies. More spirit means I can stay that way longer and use my pickpocket skill to get guaranteed item drops, then I can backstab an enemy before it ends to take one out

So even though you want to main one for your weapon type, you also want some of the others to boost your skills

One nice thing is at least in the alpha, resets are completely free, so if you mess up on your virtues or you want to change your pact skill tree or your weapon skill tree you can do it whenever

Those are the other two things you level, aside from your virtues you also level your pact, which is the accessory that gives you your 3 skills, and your weapon, and both the pact and your weapon have their own skill trees with skill points

It has a lot of build freedom

At the moment there are like 7 pacts and you can eventually unlock all of them to take the skills you want

[tranquil cove]

i am sure resets will be free in full release, or at least not require game currency bought with real world money

[peak marsh]

I'd more expect some item you'd have to grind materials for but if it stays like it is now that would be great, because it feels good being able to experiment and not lose anything

There's a lot of potential for build tinkering

Not to mention weapon skill trees are unique to each weapon, so two different bows have two different skill trees and Mote slots. For example starter weapons only ever get one Mote slot

But each weapon needs to be leveled independently so taking a new weapon means starting over at level 1 on that weapon

Which isn't to say your damage resets because that's scaling off of your virtues, but all your added passives from that weapon start over

Like on my bow, when you shoot arrows or shoot a hail of arrows they stick into the enemies/the ground, and you can fire a charged shot to make the arrows explode dealing a small bit of damage and stagger per arrow. I have passives on my current bow that makes the stuck arrows last longer before they disappear, and deal more stagger when they explode

A new bow means I'd lose those perks but might have a shot at better ones once it levels

[deep tulip]

I wish Enshrouded had a spell to let you build like Runescape Dragonwilds and triangles.

https://youtu.be/0_XHdpR9Dyk?si=BbL2X72h_r61x6d3

[peak marsh]

Yeah, been waiting for Dragonwilds to have a little more time in the oven but the whole integrating spells into building and gathering is interesting

[vague galleon]

i cant wait for a good sale on that game. 🙂 im absolutely getting it.

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZzIIHYBG-8 - @timber prism

[timber prism]

Ty

[timber prism]

oh that was quick... looks like its getting pushed to get delivered tomorrow now

@peak marsh Did you get into Drakantos? I started playing just now haha

[peak marsh]

Nothing yet

[timber prism]

blast!

[peak marsh]

@timber prism

[timber prism]

Nice.. i stopped to play more WWM but I might hop on again later haha

Im not sure how to feel about a mmo where i forced to play a character instead of a custom one

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, not a fan of that concept

[peak marsh]

Same, but so far it doesn't seem bad

[peak marsh]

Yeah, it's a cool little game. The movement feels a little clunky though, it makes it a little difficult that players have 'mass' and can block each other

So like I was playing the priest character and they have a spell that's basically like a shotgun, a holy blast in a cone, and people kept getting in front of me so I couldn't position it right xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yH3Fj-dWhw - Yes Ubi, then you wonder why the EU is pushing legislation against you

(Ubi's new EULA says that if they discontinue the game not only do you have to uninstall the game but you literally have to destroy any physical copies of it xD)

And it goes deeper. They can change the EULA at any time without any notice, don't have to notify you of the changes (they literally say it's the users responsibility to keep up with any changes) but if you disagree you have to immediately uninstall the game and destroy all copies, otherwise it's basically saying you agree to any and all terms in full, including those changes

Like, it would sound paranoid if it wasn't there in plain text

[timber prism]

Extremely puts me off. I prefer legend of mana which feels much better

Luckily it seems they give a lot of cleave/are abilities

AOE*

I made a ronin thinking movement would be good and its not XD

[peak marsh]

Yeah the movement is very stiff. Almost reminds me of like a flash game xD

And yeah same, from the visuals I was expecting either something like Ragnarok (click to move), or the Mana series (free movement), and this feels weirdly sandwiched in the middle. Even switching to controller as recommended doesn't help it much

I mean it has kind of a nice pick up and play premise where you pick a quest and just autojoin, but it's kind of bothersome that half the time you'll join a quest that's already in progress so not only are you getting less gameplay but you're getting less rewards

It definitely feels like it would be vastly improved if you had 3 people in a party together grinding it with different complementary class roles

A healer/dealer/tank situation

[timber prism]

Yeah. I would def get a lot more enjoyment if it was open world

[peak marsh]

NGL I'm kinda getting into it though xD

Like it's janky and under baked but something about it is kinda charming

[peak marsh]

I got into it a little bit xD

[severe jetty]

Is it good?

[peak marsh]

It's pretty decent. It's a little rough still but if you like pixel art and top down action RPGs it's pretty well done

The main focus is running dungeons with random parties or parties you set up with friends, but it still has an open world and solo quests

The solo quests have mechanics that remind me of old SNES RPGs. Like to unlock a mount you have to race the mount trainer, or at one point you have to sneak through an enemy base hidden in a barrel without being seen

But it's definitely action focused and getting good at chaining your skills and managing your cooldowns and positioning are the main mechanics

Also I find it plays better on a controller than a KB/Mouse

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/dSD8FziTTCg?si=QFLKXqI5uqm0Ln5T

[reef bobcat]

**my TOP 3 games in 2025 **--- i love Indiana Jones & Great Circle so i cant wait September for new DLC, but to bad i can replay it any other way than my first run, there's only one route, there's no other disclosure to the end, no open-world to discover roam around, no house building or sets & weapons to find and try different damage combos against enemies --- i also love Enshrouded, where i can roam & fly around, try different sets, craft, forage, build and fight enemies solo or in group and their support is unmatchable --- at my #3 spot, there's the loving and fun LOTR return to moria !!! ...i dislike shooters-blast forward-body count type gun games... i like medieval, sorcery, fantasy - sword & bow kind of game (except gore-monstruous-unforgiving-stressful Dark Soul & Elden Ring type of mechanics & graphism - i'm more of a Skyrim chill player, that's why i also played the 2025 remastered Oblivion, but not on my Top 3).

[vague galleon]

I have tried a few of these beat them up games and I AM FREAKING TERRIBLE at them.

i tried minds of moria, got bored fast. but it's okay.

[vague galleon]

i was playing some old medal of honor last night and boy can I Not freaking aim with a controller.
KBM I'm pretty decent but it's been nearly 15 years since I played an FPS with a controller and boy are my skills completely gone.

[vague galleon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s5uYrClVwI

ive been watching this lately and I'm considering getting lunacid. I am not one for souslike but my interest has been peaked. ive been CRAVING more medieval fantasy stuff lately and outside of paperback novels the pickings are S L I M

[peak marsh]

I actually watched that video yesterday xD I like Majuular's stuff

I like how in-depth he goes, like on his Ultima retrospectives

And TBF, while Kings Field is the predecessor to Dark Souls and there are some inspirations, it's not a souls like. It's more of a very hard, very atmospheric classic RPG. I see people more and more conflate the two like "OOH KINGS FIELD WAS THE ORIGINAL SOULS GAME" like no, it wasn't, completely different animal

They do a lot of similar things: both reward exploration, both have steep difficulty curves, and both have very heavy atmospheres (also both have Moonlight Greatswords). That said the way you play and approach both couldn't be more different

Though that said, if you're craving kind of moody medieval fantasy Dark Souls or Elden Ring aren't a bad way to scratch that itch. If you remove the meme culture and the cult of "git gud" they're really great dark fantasy RPGs

I mean, there's a reason they became such a big cultural phenomenon

[tepid wadi]

I think its because for as hard as they are, they're very fair. When you die, its because you werent watching the environment, werent managing your stamina, didnt know the boss moves, etc.

Even after dying once or twice, you can understand WHY you died and know how to do it better. It doesnt mean you'll automatically succeed, but you can really feel the learning process and that makes it feel good to go at it again and again.

DS games only start to fail when there are parts that ARENT fair.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, and there are a handful of those. Like they love throwing in little "gotchas" that you have no way of seeing coming and can only learn by dying to them the first time

Those always make me roll my eyes

[tepid wadi]

Even those are usually foreshadowed by things that you dont know to look for. They're a sort of learning experience of their own.

[vague galleon]

ya, he really sucks me into his overly long videos. I just downloaded a few demos and wishlisted a bunch of games.
for years Ive wanted more RPGs to get into, but my adhd and lack of satisfying loot makes it hard.

I'd LOVE for a soulslike that isnt grimdark, something with oblivion (ironically named) vibes.

I will never play dark souls because it's just too moody, too grim, too dark, too grotesque, too all of that stuff for my tastes.

between the world, the plot, and the enemy design, it's all just too depressing.

Elden Ring is not any better.

I am also absolute trash, just dont have the hand dexterity.

i dont want DARK fantasy, I want High Fantasy.
I want a game not where society has fallen into ruin, but where society is thriving and wonderful but a dark shadow threatens it. and perhaps where if you venture into the corners, the shadows, the alleways, and deep below, there's an evil that never went away.

for all it's jank, ES4, Oblivion is exactly the kind of game I like.

it's a bit generic but that feels like home in a way.

[vague galleon]

i think they are fair to a point. the combat can still be brutality hard to an extent, and that is okay too.

you DO need SOME skill to play them, and I wouldn't ask they change that.

[tepid wadi]

Thats what I mean though. The fairness is what makes it so you can learn the skill. You know how you messed up and how you can be better.

[vague galleon]

totally

but also that some people will never be able to get past it.

i dont know if it's because of old age, too many options, ADHD, or what, but I'm at a point if I fail a few times, I'll just move on to something less frustrating.

[peak marsh]

Exactly. You don't go in with the skill and immediately start steamrolling, you develop the skill by learning from your mistakes and doing better the next time. It's why death is such a lightly punished mechanic (well, depending on how many souls you were hoarding). You don't lose anything you can't regain

[vague galleon]

I greatly applaud "let me solo her" but I could NEVER commit like that.

I did it once, and f- me I was a moron for it.

Let's for a moment, go back to 2009, bought halo 3, playing it on my brother's xbox, my skills are a bit rusty.

We get to the snowy level, 2 scarabs in a pit. I died like, 50 times, but I beat it and moved on.
why did I die so much? I would shoot the legs, land, jump on, take out the core, get back on my flying thing, and do it again.

many many many years later I get MCC for PC, and get to that part again, and DISCOVER THAT I COULD HIT THE CORE WITH THE FLYING THINGS GUN I DIDNT NEED TO BOARD THE DANG SCARAB

🤬

made the encounter too easy to be honest.

[hollow barn]

tbf Elden Ring can be made stupidly easy with certain builds

[vague galleon]

If it wasn't for the grotesque enemy designs I would have given ER a try.

also my PC is a frankenpotato and i doubt it would run well.

[tranquil cove]

elden ring as a game doesn't attract me at all

but i guess neither did diablo

i think it has to do with the lore/style

both games don't contrast settings enough for me, everything is dark, doomsday, you've entered some hellscape or some chuthulu type world where there are enemies at every turn and you might just be driven mad. doesn't speak to me, because it also does that mediocre, as both games aren't actually chuthulu horror games either.

i need a world where some parts have colour, not always grey. and there is beautiful areas etc.

so skyrim

[vague galleon]

diablo like games scratch an itch for me very well. I can dive into dungeons full of enemies and kill and slaughter to my heart's content, but when i am weary and my backpack is full, I use one of the most essential items in the game.
The Teleport Home Scroll.
With this I can return to a peaceful Hub where I can sell my loot, converse with NPCs, manage my inventory, plan my next move, etc etc etc, all in a safe place. and then when I am done I can return to my adventures. (bonus points if the portal sticks around when I log out, or it saves me where I was, or ooo, if when I exit it makes a portal at my last spot and I load up in the main base, that would be nice.
I hate when I cant save and quit and return to where I last was at any point. forcing me to find the next check point has always been a pet peeve of mine and can kill my interest in a game fast.
Also as much as I love big open worlds I also absolutely love games with hub worlds. games like PSO and Sonic Adventures.

Skyrim is way too damn gray and white, cant get back into it even if it has dragons when oblivion doesnt.

[tranquil cove]

maybe because in skyrim i was using 200 mods and an ENB

the point is the world just has forests and fields, and flowes, and sunlight, and you can walk for a bit and see a deer.

it's not all death around every bend, storm clouds above, with crumbling ancient cities and magic at every corner, with ghosts flying around. elden ring is like 1 giant trope to me. like it's basically exaggerated in every way shape and form.

good games will have you travelling through peaceful areas, to set the mood, and contrast when you are actually somewhere dangerous. if im always somewhere dangerous i will get used to it and it has no effect on me. desensitization.

[vague galleon]

ya, the only time I really want near constant danger with ocassional luls is in a first person shooter like doom.

[timber prism]

Its def not old age xd

[vague galleon]

i have definitely refined what games will hold my interest with experience, for example, games like KOTOR just dont do it for me anymore. maybe when I was 16-18 I'd be happy to just have an RPG to play but now in my 30s I've played so many I need a more action packed game.

[timber prism]

I understand that. I have to space out slow games for the same reason

After finishing e33 i tried to play ff9

And lasted a day Xd

[vague galleon]

i have a very weird nostalgia for JRPGs, my brother introduced me to a bunch of them at like, middle school age, those early teen years, my "formative" years.
however I barely actually played any of them. I was simply made away of the genre and a large handful of them.

so for YEEAARS I have had a strong desire to play them, but so many other games have grabbed me more.

and now I just dont have time to deal with their grind.

I think what I should do is just find a silent trimmed down "playthrough" that just gives all the story bits.

but FF9 on steam DOES give me another option.
I can max level my character and just burn through the combat. I might the ones that do that.

[peak marsh]

Not all JRPGs are grindy. In fact, if you haven't played through Chrono Trigger I can't recommend it enough for that reason. You can mostly just follow the story without having mandatory grind sessions, and enemies are actually visiable and can be avoided if you feel burnt out on fights

Like, it scales really well in that if you're just playing the story normally, it will be fairly challenging without being impossible

[vague galleon]

God, I have played CT in so many different places, (never SNES though) and I have never finished it.
Chrono Trigger and FF6 are the two big ones I remember the most thanks to my brother and the emulators he downloaded.

I have the DS version still, (and the shit PS1 version somewhere.)

honestly chrono trigger while very good especially for the time is a smidge overrated.

[peak marsh]

Idk, I think it's rated pretty appropriately. Made by a dream team of the best of Square and Enix (before they merged like Gotenks to become Squenix), fantastic music (like, still to date one of the best game soundtracks I can think of), great story, unique combat mechanics with the whole combo system, fair difficulty scaling, memorable characters, invented the New Game+ mechanic, and art by Akira Toriyama

Like, I'm not sure how you wouldn't rate that as peak xD

[vague galleon]

did it have difficulty scaling?

[peak marsh]

I should say difficulty curve, not scaling

[vague galleon]

although I will say it canonincally has TWO left handed characters so it does win a lot of points there, although i think the sprites are wrong.

[peak marsh]

I mean I know it gets held up as a sacred cow by basically everyone, but it's not without reason. It's not entirely perfect (I felt like the prehistoric era was kind of weak to play through. Like, it's necessary to the story but mehhh), but in terms of quality and design it really is the gold standard for the genre

[vague galleon]

thats what im saying, it's not a sacred cow.

it's still one of the greats absolutely.

but it was only truly amazing for it's time.

compare it to modern games and it's really just a good standard RPG.

[peak marsh]

IDK if that's fair either. It holds up pretty great

[vague galleon]

although it absolutely holds up better than other

these keys suck, i need a good quality keyboard.

anyway.

looking at you, baldurs gate and fallout, utterly unplayable. also thank goodness system shock one got a remake.

[peak marsh]

If the pixel art was polished up a bit and the game was released as a brand new game it would be right up there with Sea of Stars or Octopath Traveler

(modern JRPGs also worth a look)

[vague galleon]

i still maintain a comment someone once made that the elemental powers detract from what made the combat so good early game.

[peak marsh]

I'd be curious to know how. IMO they just added another layer of complexity

Like they enhanced rather than detracted

[vague galleon]

part of the combat was waiting for enemies to move into the right position so your attacks hit more at once.

the elemental stuff is just "lol AOE hits everyone everywhere"

it removes what little battle tactics the game had.

[peak marsh]

I mean, maybe on New Game+, during a normal playthrough you still have to manage your resources for bosses xD

Which means using smaller targeted attacks and still respecting the distance mechanic

[vague galleon]

ive never finished it once. XD

i need to figure out what level I'm supposed to go into the pit.

i tried it a few weeks back and got beat around, and then rofl stomped by a boss or mid boss.

[peak marsh]

In which game?

[vague galleon]

the game we're talking about.

[peak marsh]

The pit?

[vague galleon]

in the desert

[peak marsh]

Ah, had to refresh my memory, it's been a while since my last playthrough

It's one of those games I replay every handful of years or so, and it's been about 5 since my last one xD

At one point I even did the "100% all endings" run xD

Can't thank them enough for coming up with New Game+ xD

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN91aGmAooI

[vague galleon]

AND ITS WHAT?!!

[tepid wadi]

It's got very positive reviews

[timber prism]

@peak marsh started Bananzaning last night. I read reviews of slowdown but it plays pretty well

Nintendo made it pretty easy to transfer everything from the switch to switch 2 which was nice

[peak marsh]

@short sail says it's a 10/10 game

[timber prism]

Bananza?

[peak marsh]

Yeah

[timber prism]

Im not sure about 10/10 but its fun xd

Mindless fun

I hits the good ol OCD clearing up dirt for coins which i still dont even know why im collecting them for XD

[peak marsh]

Because shiny xD

[short sail]

As new president of my newest founded mining operation and golden CEO I can confirm it made almost all my shiny dreams come true.

[peak marsh]

Well that sucks. Apparently the Drakantos test is over

[misty arch]

time to answer that question we have all been asking.
https://youtu.be/3xwSH8Dm2zE?si=LBYvnJb9k68YBxOB

[peak marsh]

Good to see people getting these things out at the peak of their popularity

[vague galleon]

cant tell if that's sarcasm or not cause this is old news.

there are 3 of these games rofl

one free, one for 3 dollars, one for 7 dollars.

oh it's TEN dollars but on sale 30% off.

and another one coming.

[peak marsh]

That was sarcasm xD

It would have been more relevant 6 months ago

[vague galleon]

gotcha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlDkL3DndtM

😬

[timber prism]

Yeah only 3 days

Hopefully they get some good feedback

[peak marsh]

Yeah, I just didn't notice at the time. Bummer, I was having fun with it

[timber prism]

I have 5 more days of WWM I think x.x

I was concentrating on hitting the highest tier in pvp for my horse game and I think I should make it next week XD

Hopefully top 1000 by end of week

[severe jetty]

Did anyone play that new free mmo

Soulframe

I was to late

[vague galleon]

ya rhoisad and zerax i think?

they seemed to like it.

[peak marsh]

I don't think Zerax has yet

Like, he has it downloaded and everything he just hasen't gotten to it

[peak marsh]

You can still sign up. They're still doing the whole lottery system for accepting people where every so often they take in a bunch of new players

[peak marsh]

It's not quite an MMO. It's a lot like Warframe is, where you're mostly running around solo/co op with friends (apparently), and occacionally you find player hubs

There are 3 factions in the game and each has a player hub where you see other people walking around, but out in the larger game world etc you don't, the only way you see other people is through the chat window

[sweet patrol]

I played and love it so far . Beautifully crafted world

Grounded 2 is out today!!!

[tepid wadi]

I'm intending to play it, but haven't gotten around to it, heh It's been a busy week

[vague galleon]

sure. 😉

make sure you fill out that job application to keen!

[timber prism]

I thought it was just okay. If you like grinding with rng for progression then it might be something to look into. The foundation is there. Combat feels okay. Its dialed down from what you expect in warframe and the AI for enemies leaves a lot to be desired atm.

As Rhoisaad mentioned it not a mmo at all

[timber prism]

Curious how much progression will be in early access atm

Let me know what you think. I keep hearing that Grounded 1 is great

[sweet patrol]

They said the EA area will be the same size as the entire map from the first game

[tranquil cove]

warframe combat isn't particularly good

so if soulframe doesn't even meet that?

lol

[timber prism]

Oh. I dont mean size. Just features and progression of tools/weapons etc.

[tranquil cove]

warframe combat is just mash keys and run around a lot, and if you bring wrong damage type for enemy everything is tanky, but that's okay because so are you.

[timber prism]

Let me know what you think @sweet patrol when you play. Ill probably sub a month to gamepass to try it out

[peak marsh]

The first Grounded is really good

[timber prism]

Yeah I just watched a bunch of my friends go through a playthrough last month for it

[finite saffron]

Wow, a second grounded managed to totally slip under my radar

[tranquil cove]

ill wait for 75% off sale, if no sale, no buy. i already have like 10 other games in the genre to play.

[peak marsh]

Guessing you guys have been pretty busy for Gamescom. They had a big announcement trailer thing around the time of Summer Games Fest

It was big-ish news at the time

[finite saffron]

Yeah I usually follow game news pretty closely that one just managed to dodge my feed

[timber prism]

Any recs on upcoming stuff to check out?

[finite saffron]

Honestly we've been in kinda a lull lately but I imagine Gamescom will unveil a bunch of stuff

Peak is pretty great that's the main recent game that has come out that I felt like was really good

[peak marsh]

I think he means generally, not necesarily Enshrouded xD

[timber prism]

I have been playing a lot of AAA stuff lately while I wait on some indies

Also testing xd

[finite saffron]

Yeah I know, I was talking about generally too lol

[timber prism]

Peak is fun

[peak marsh]

Ah, my mistake

[timber prism]

Playing Bananza and debating starting a run of Windwaker now that I can play the GC version on Nintendo Online

[peak marsh]

I'm looking forward to Star Rupture. Upcoming sci fi survival from the makers of Green Hell

[tranquil cove]

do you guys spend like $500 on games every year?

[peak marsh]

Pretty sure we've been over this. Keeping up on games and being interested by certain releases doesn't mean we're buying each and every single thing we discuss

[timber prism]

Waiting on this test bc its single player

[tranquil cove]

my question was how much you spend though

i wasn't debating that point

[peak marsh]

I'm probably comparatively low. In a given year it depends but certainly less than $500

[finite saffron]

I mostly buy indies so I don't spend that much either anymore

[peak marsh]

Maybe less than $300

Yeah same. My focus has almost completely shifted to indies with a handful of AAA exceptions

[tranquil cove]

this year i spent 93$ so far

[peak marsh]

I also tend to revisit games a lot so I only really buy when it's something I've researched and gotten hyped about

[tranquil cove]

with no plans to spend any more

[timber prism]

I spent more than $2k on gaming this month alone

[tranquil cove]

though i wasnt going to spend $33 on rimworld odyssey and the dlcs for rimworld rarely on sale, but it was a good dlc.

so it was the rare occasion i did a full price

[tranquil cove]

yeah if i'm going to spend even $800 on something there is a rock climbing gym that charges that for 1 year membership, feel that is WAY more worth it, and more value than $800 worth of games, most of which i would never touch if i was buying that many games in 1 year.

[timber prism]

Did you like Green Hell? I watched a few streams but none of my friends ever picked it up

[timber prism]

Why not both?

Value of games is different for people

[peak marsh]

Green Hell was pretty great. Brutally hard at points but it's a great early survival. It hasn't aged especially well

[peak marsh]

I mean, a hobby is a hobby. Gaming, rock climbing, pickleball, whatever you get into and spend your time on, you're going to wind up investing in it

[timber prism]

^

[severe jetty]

Agree

[timber prism]

I spent like $400+ to make a MTG Final fantasy poster XD

[severe jetty]

Do what has best return on investment for you

[tranquil cove]

cant afford

but looks like i did spend $500 on games last year

but i wonder if that is a unique year, i did get helldivers 2, enshrouded, barony, dredge, we who are about to die, cataclysmo etc.

[peak marsh]

Going back to this, the main thing that was impressive about Green Hell was the amount of detail they put into the survival mechanics. That's why I'm so interested in Star Rupture

Like, you had to clean cuts to avoid infection, check meat to make sure it isn't spoiled, boil water so you didn't get sick from drinking it, if you waded into the water you had to check yourself for leeches, you had a mode where you could inspect your arms and legs independently, you had to make sure you were taking in the right calories, and so on. They really leaned a lot closer to the simulator side of survival

[timber prism]

That is pretty in depth!

Ill prolly check out the multiplayer test if they ever have one

[sweet patrol]

@timber prism Played a bit on my break and its great so far loving the improvements and changes

[tranquil cove]

2025 - $93.69
2024 - $471.36
2023 - $272.89
2022 - $205.91
2021 - $304.65
2020 - $124.03
2019 - $378.23
2018 - $123.29
2017 - $83.17
2016 - $298.05
2015 - $433.31
2014 - $155.29
2013 - $361.51
2012 - $68.67
2011 - $24.97

my steam purchase history

at least im on track this year for saving money

to make up for last year

[sweet patrol]

What did your wallet ever do to you🤣

[timber prism]

Nice!

What was the biggest change you noticed?

[sweet patrol]

The omni tool is a nice improvement I hated having to manage space for axes hammers and such now all"tools" in one

[timber prism]

Oooo

Is it still capped to 4 players?

[sweet patrol]

yep

[timber prism]

Dang

[sweet patrol]

But I mean it looks amazing and the voice lines are great

[timber prism]

Yeah. Was just hoping that they would expand the player count on this one

4 is really small when it comes to coop survival

Is it a fresh new story?

Don't need to play the first?

[sweet patrol]

I mean the backstory would be a bit confusing in places without playing the first but yes yu could just watch a lore video.

[peak marsh]

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/after-losing-usd200-million-on-suicide-squad-wb-games-has-another-live-service-game-in-the-works-based-on-one-of-the-iconic-ips-from-the-vast-warner-bros-and-dc-comics-catalog/ -and in today's episode of "The Industry never learns" ...

[tepid wadi]

The crazy part is that live service games aren't bad. It's just that the way that corporations are building them are super counter to what players actually want 😝

[peak marsh]

Yeah, it's more the cynical "money printer" approach they're going with, and ignoring core audiences in order to shoot for mass appeal

The "grey, homogenous slop" problem

In live services we really have gotten a great example of just how much companies take their audiences for granted, assuming fans will just show up and spend regardless so who they really need to target are the non-fans

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, assuming your fans are gonna show up is a recipe for losing all your core fans. RIP Veilguard

It's the perfect example, because everything I've seen is that it's a perfectly serviceable game. But it's an absolutely terrible dragon age game

[peak marsh]

Or you can look at Ubi and how every sequel gradually waters down what made their respective franchises good in the first place

I won't say "popular" because even though AC Shadows was universally panned as a "meh" AC game it was still one top the top 5 best selling games of the year so far -.-

A fact that hurts me right in my feels

[tepid wadi]

It's ironic that it's like the opposite path of the Souls games into Elden Ring. Each one is steps more complex but also more approachable without dumbing down the core gameplay loop

[peak marsh]

It's because they embrace what they are and what kind of experience they're trying to offer, so it gets refined. In AAAs it's almost like they're embarrassed of what drew people to the game in the first place and try to lean away from it in hopes of broad mass appeal

[misty arch]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2661300/Grounded_2/?snr=1_4_4__118

Steam

Grounded 2

When you've been shrunk to the size of an ant, what was once familiar is now a wild, uncharted frontier. Traverse sprawling manmade spaces overgrown with nature with buggies that can fight alongside with you, uncover hidden secrets, and fight to survive in a world much larger than the backyard. The playground may seem familiar, but beneath its…

Price

$29.99

Recommendations

747

▶ Play video

[peak marsh]

And they wind up in that territory of "appealing to everyone means appealing to no-one"

[tepid wadi]

Yep

It's why so many live service games fail

[timber prism]

@sweet patrol Played a few hours of Grounded 2 and it was pretty fun

I think its def worth the $30 instead of playing on gamepass

I thought it was going to be more expensive but it was too good of a pricepoint to pass up.. I can see myself playing it for more than two months over the course of a few years

[swift bolt]

Well. They implemented 1st person view in building mode.

and I bought game~

As it should be

[peak marsh]

Yep. That was a couple of updates ago but it makes things a lot easier for placement. They've been hard at work

Also I feel like Zerax owes everyone an apology for that joke

[timber prism]

That joke tho. Holy. Lmaoooo

[tepid wadi]

👍 👍 👍

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84WdoEjMk3U

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, that ripoff is insane. But also, give me a HZD sandbox MMO

[sweet patrol]

Cool thing is that even the pro's of the seriis said there is atleast 35 hours of story to play currently and its only like a quarter done

[peak marsh]

Yeah this. Or what this game is, which is basically HZD sandbox survival game

The gameplay videos actually look really good

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, IDK how sony has failed to make that happen, it's such an obvious play

[timber prism]

Sony is only really good at putting out third person story driven single player games with Helldivers being the one exception. Who would they trust to make that game?

[tepid wadi]

🤷‍♀️ Someone

I can't believe there's no team/group under their umbrella that isn't passionate and capable enough to make a survival game based off of HZD

[timber prism]

I can't think of one

Im sure the idea has been pitched

[tepid wadi]

I mean, my rather cynical take is that it's not our responsibility as customers to figure that out. That's the entire job of the leadership team; to identify opportunities and find the teams to realize that potential.

[timber prism]

Its def not our job but just historically looking at what Sony and all its devs bring to the gaming industry... its third person games and every few decades... a racing game

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, disappointing for sure.

HZD is such an excellent world with clear potential that it's mindboggling that they couldn't act on it.

[timber prism]

Yeah. I even liked both games but people kind of hate on it

I actually forgot there is a Lego one too lmao

[tepid wadi]

I haven't heard any legitimate hate for it, just from internet weirdos upset that the MC isn't attractive enough for them

[vague galleon]

should i buy the ripoff before it gets pulled off the store?

[tepid wadi]

I didn't love the ending of the first game, it felt kind of like hokey sequel bait, but that's a very minor complaint

Like, I rarely finish single player games, and I loved that one the whole way through

[peak marsh]

It's not out yet, so unfortunately the lawsuit will happen first

[vague galleon]

ya. they made her face a little bit rounder and the chuds lost their dang minds.

[peak marsh]

I honestly haden't heard any hate for HZD but I also don't follow the kinds of circles that would participate in it

[tepid wadi]

Like I said, no legitimate hate for it

Other than minor gripes like the ending and the "yellow paint climbing" and stuff that don't really detract from the overall game.

The setting is one of my favorites ever, I love the "far past apocalypse" setting concept

[timber prism]

The most common thing I hear is they call it regurgitated open world slop

Its the same camp who say the same thing about GoT

[tepid wadi]

It does have a lot of "standard" open world features

But like... it's wrapped around a really cool story, solid progression, great visuals, etc

[timber prism]

Tbh. Its very tropish

Story wise

I didn't really care for Alloy

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, it's not really revolutionary, but not every game has to be

[timber prism]

But I enjoyed the combat a lot

[tepid wadi]

The world is definitely the main feature

Robot dinosaurs, man

[timber prism]

Yeah

[vague galleon]

i always wanted to do a story thats post post apoc where the deadworld is done and everything and plants have grown over everything.

[timber prism]

I liked all of that but im also old

Who remembers dino riders

Xd

[vague galleon]

street sharks.

[tepid wadi]

Pirates of Dark Water

[timber prism]

Gargoyles

Haha

[tepid wadi]

We all old here

[timber prism]

Pirates of Dark Water was amazing

[vague galleon]

biker mice from mars.

[timber prism]

Pro Stars

[peak marsh]

I used to love Pro Stars as a kid xD

And Captain N

[timber prism]

Yessss

But yeah Zerax... I would def play a HZD survival game but I don't trust Sony to make a respectable one xd

[peak marsh]

Thats why it's unfortunate that not only did that project fall through with Tencent, but Tencent didn't change the homework enough so now Sony is suing to stop it

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, that's definitely unfortunate

It definitely looks like "we have HZD at home"

[peak marsh]

Yeah but the gameplay clips look really good. Maybe not quite the polish of a HZD but enough to make me want to play it

[tepid wadi]

I haven't actually watched the Force video because I've been working, but I imagine his take is "I want to play the HZD survival game, and if this is the best we could get, I'm sad it's going to die because of litigation"

[peak marsh]

He does rip a little on how blatent the copying is

[tepid wadi]

I mean yeah obviously

[timber prism]

https://youtu.be/X7sIONOU1TI?si=xhedBwEZGoDoi2dk

So excited new 2D NG released

[peak marsh]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2542120/NINJA_GAIDEN_Ragebound/ - Someone I follow on YT did a preview of the Steam version, it looks pretty dope

Steam

NINJA GAIDEN: Ragebound

…

Release Date

Jul 31, 2025

▶ Play video

Of note, Steam has a demo available

[severe jetty]

Did yall check gaurdians of the wild sky

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1579420/Guardians_of_the_Wild_Sky/

Steam

Guardians of the Wild Sky

Fall into the world of Wild Sky, a survival-crafting adventure where magical creatures called Guardians are your greatest allies. Sail through the skies on your trusty airship and explore a massive world; discover unique floating biomes teeming with life, hidden treasures, and dangerous beasts to conquer.

Explore solo or play cooperatively w…

Release Date

Coming soon

▶ Play video

[timber prism]

Nice. Gonna pick it up when home

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuMFN049AiQ

(for those who remember Zero Punctuation xD)

[peak marsh]

That one actually wasn't on my radar. Looks interesting

[severe jetty]

Yes very

[tepid wadi]

Yeah another potentially good survival game. Will it fulfill its potential. We shall see

[timber prism]

https://youtu.be/UuyrcRZ6COQ

[severe jetty]

I really like the concept as a kid i loved the pokemon games