other-games

[vague galleon]

👀

oh neat. shame it needs an epic account.

[misty arch]

it is new from the original team that worked on Worlds Adrift

wait, which game?

[vague galleon]

runescape drsgonwilds

[misty arch]

its on steam

[vague galleon]

yes. and requires an epic account.

there was another survival game i saw awhile back that also had that. cant recall it. might be on my woshlist though.

[tepid wadi]

Speaking of, Lost Skies is coming out April 18th

[misty arch]

yes it is and cant wait, posted the date announcement above the runscape one

[tepid wadi]

oh, I didn't see it, brain fail

[vague galleon]

im curious which one it was that i had looked at that needed an epic account as well, IFSUNSETS is one of them but i dont know if it was that one, i recall making some comment about it before.
dont even know if it was a survival game.

「IfSunSets」 is a survival RPG adventure game. During the day, secure necessary supplies across the island, and survive the night against strong and terrifying monsters that track you down. You can utilize resources you've secured to build a base to fend off threatening monsters.

okay, ya, it was that game, i remember now, wanting a game where you gather supplies during the day and defend your base at night.

always had an interest in game like overlord but dont like playing a villian.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I love base defense as a mechanic, IfSunSets has a good concept but it looks like a college project.

heh

[vague galleon]

a little bit ya.

ive seen worse.

[obtuse scroll]

We will agree to disagree. I hate base defense, absolutely hate it. Raids are one of the worst parts of Valheim.

[tepid wadi]

I don't like Valheim raids because they aren't well done and your base is made from tissue paper. the only way to really defend a base it to cheese it

Like, a raid either doesn't matter, or it's trolls and you best draw them away from your base or you're losing a big chunk (but at least there's no material loss)

[obtuse scroll]

I don't like any base raids. It's the worst part in most survival crafters. I want my base to be my safe haven when I'm done for the day. I want to build and just chill. Out in the world, sure, make it hard and tons of fighting/exploring, but at my base, leave me alone.

[tranquil cove]

base raids are usually bad for a few reasons.

1. you dont get to decide when it happens, or how frequently it happens.
   — if it was something you decide not just as a world setting but actively in the game itself it might be good. otherwise it's usually interrupting base building, gearing up for another adventure, trying to sleep etc. when it interrupts these things usually your inventory is a mess making it difficult for you to even engage in battle well.

2. the base raid is usually an annoyance, and repetitive gameplay.
   — one can argue base raid is fun the first time, the second time, the 10th time, the 100th time, but eventually, for everyone, it doesn't matter who you are - it becomes boring and repetitive and then what do you do? because the base raids keep happening. damaging bases with no quick way to repair large sections is also annoying. this is solved in valheim with a mod that gives your hammer an area repair effect at least.

3. the base raid isn't worked well into the games building or mechanics.
   — usually there is no fun way to engage with the base raid by using gameplay other than wacking things with your character individually one on one. games that implement base raids for some reason are very stubborn about implementing anything else to make it more fun. other things like the ability to build durable walls, traps that are meaningful, or sentry turrets that the player can mount and fire from a wall etc. even auto turrets that you preload.

in valheim the only bonus to a base raid is that it sometimes can bring resources to your base that you might need, rather than going out and farming them yourself.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, IfSunSets looks a lot like early days. I didn't mind base raids in games like The Forest, but a lot of times they make them too aggressive, like they happen constantly

[obtuse scroll]

Except for troll raids. -_- no one needs troll hides by the time they're triggered and they defnitely don't need a troll with a stick taking out their house lol

[tranquil cove]

yeah i was thinking more like drake raid, maybe sometimes the swamp raid, but excluding skeleton surprise, nobody needs bones.

[obtuse scroll]

Actually, thanks to Ashlands, bones aren't so bad to have for the generators

[tranquil cove]

i just usually have 999 or more by mistlands

[obtuse scroll]

Troll raids though are pointless annoyances

[obtuse scroll]

LOL I never keep bones, so by the time we realized we needed them for Ashlands, we were low

First thing to go when your bags are full or you're over your carry limit: Bones.

[tranquil cove]

yep

i'd like a game where if they do base raids

the player can spawn the raid from their base.

[obtuse scroll]

I don't want them at my base. I'm hoping the raids they have in the roadmap stay in the other place like they seem to have it written to say.

[peak marsh]

Personally I just want them to be reasonable and have a reasonable response by a point that doesn't require me to run out constantly to chase kids off my lawn while I'm sorting/crafting

[tranquil cove]

and then it can happen in a time frame, or even over a period of 3 in game days or whatever but at least you chose to do it. as opposed to something that happens randomly or too frequently.

[tranquil cove]

i just cant

at base i am 90% of the time building something, farming, managing inventory, or about to sleep.

[peak marsh]

Like raids fine, but give me some kind of defense that doesn't require me to be there personally

[tranquil cove]

getting interrupted in any of these things, just frankly, pisses me off.

i can't.

lol

[obtuse scroll]

One of the worst parts about the Valheim ones is when you're farming and building, so you've used your lesser foods to do that, then the raid happens and you have to use buke berries and then eat good food, to go back to farming with your good foods after it's done -_-

[tranquil cove]

if i could initiate the raid somehow, that would be ideal for my playstyle

[obtuse scroll]

It's a waste of resources and sometimes foods are expensive

[tranquil cove]

dont forget as you killed things you picked up bones and stuff, and now you cant go directly back to farming, you need to manage inventory.

lol

[peak marsh]

And the fact that they're constant. You don't get a break the entire time you're at base, like make it intermittent but don't make me dread going home

[obtuse scroll]

LOL true

Well, the Valheim ones are a chance to have one every 50 minutes. It's at least a 50 minute wait til the next one, but they last 5 minutes

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I agree with these as far as valheim is concerned for sure. But they're all solvable problems from a general design perspective. If a game is designed specifically around base raids, none of these should be an issue.

[peak marsh]

Maybe that's changed, I seem to remember them being a lot more frequent around launch

[tranquil cove]

its from the perspective of a sandbox survival builder

a game designed around raids could probably be good

might not be my cup of tea though

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, that's what I mean

[peak marsh]

But like, give me an automated defense of some kind. Make it expensive even, but give me an option where at a point I can relax

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, 7 Days to Die is made for base raids, it gives you a chance and you know they are coming. You build your horde base, upgrade this and that, stock the good things you need for the night, and boom, it happens like clockwork

[tepid wadi]

A raid-focused survival game wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea for sure.

I think 7d2d has a good foundation, but their defense building is so boring that it becomes uninteresting. Like there are only 2 traps! Where are my oil slicks, tar pits, swinging logs, and other fun traps to use on the zombies.

[tranquil cove]

closest ive payed was NMRIH wave survival where you have 2 minutes between each wave to setup defenses and collect supplies.

[obtuse scroll]

There's also sledgy to use too. You can push them off the path they're running on lol

[tepid wadi]

There are a few wave-based games like that that are decent, but I want more of like a long-form thing that 7d2d does, where you're preparing and you know raids will happen, but there's other goals t the game as well.

[peak marsh]

NMRH? No More Rusty Hammers? 🤔

[tranquil cove]

they need a game where you call the wave

for example that new game someone posted in here?

i forget the name

[tepid wadi]

Either you call it, or you have ample warning of when it's going to happen, like hours or something.

[tranquil cove]

nordhime?

nord something

[tepid wadi]

Oh, Nordhold, I was talking about it

[tranquil cove]

in that game the wave comes only when you explore the next tile

so you essentially call the wave

[tepid wadi]

It's more of a tower defense game than a base defense, which might feel like splitting hairs, but it's pretty different

[tranquil cove]

yeah that looks good, i put it on my wishlist

[obtuse scroll]

So, is the NDA done on RuneScape: Dragonwilds? Since there are impression videos?

[tepid wadi]

I don't think so

I think some people just leaked it

[obtuse scroll]

Okay, then I won't make any comments on that

[peak marsh]

Not surprised, for as big as RuneScape is

[tranquil cove]

theres apparently a game called wall something

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2187290/Wall_World/

Steam

Wall World

Welcome to the Wall World, a mining rogue-lite with tower defense elements. Explore procedurally generated mines and discover fantastical biomes. Find resources and technologies for purchasing valuable upgrades. Fight off hordes of aggressive monsters using your mobile base. Roam the Wall freely day and night, in various weather conditions. F…

Price

$6.99

Recommendations

8582

▶ Play video

also looks decent

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, there's also Age of Darkness: Final Stand, and They Are Billions

I think the difference is that I want a game that's focused on a balance between exploration and defense. Like you have reasons to go venture far out of your safe area, but you always want to come back to do your crafting and building and stuff

[tranquil cove]

i had they are billions on wishlist

but never got it

[tepid wadi]

It's super good if you like the horde defense stuff. Very hard

[tranquil cove]

it didn't really convince me enough to buy it

i watched like a 4 hour gameplay

[tranquil cove]

i liked cataclysmo, i bought that game

[obtuse scroll]

I think I like 7d2d because of the way they do raids. I know it's coming, I have time to prepare, and in-between I get to go out do jobs, find things, grow my foods, etc. I just gotta be back for redmoon

[misty arch]

look up The Front. It has a lot of that and is a modern survival game. The interesting part is it has a pruge system like conan exiles but its self activated and you setup your defenses how you want it before activating it.

[obtuse scroll]

I just had the RuneScape video going for Force gaming, and he brought up Enshrouded LOL, he really does love this game

Even if what he said wasn't the best about mages, but he's not wrong

[tranquil cove]

what did he say about mages

[obtuse scroll]

That he loves Enshrouded but the mages are basic and need fleshing out

[tranquil cove]

i thought the problem in enshrouded is that everything else sucks, and mages are too OP

lol

like i think two handed heavy weapons were underwhelming 6-8 months ago, unless they improved that.

[obtuse scroll]

What game are you playing? They love their archers and they have the most versatility and skills to use.

[tranquil cove]

archers were just a pain to use because you spent too much time farming for arrows. maybe when they introduced the magic arrows

thats when archery became okay

[obtuse scroll]

Ehh, arrows became a bit easier with planting the twigs trees and farming chickens

[tranquil cove]

the only way you can make mages good in this game is adopting spells like DND has

[tepid wadi]

I mean, I think Enshrouded could use a big combat focused overhaul patch where they address some core systems. I like the foundation but it needs some significant expanding and streamlining

Like mages need a Spellbook that holds their spell scrolls so they don't take up 7 inventory slots

[obtuse scroll]

Truthfully, I'm fine with mages being simple, I just need to be able to hit stuff that is right in front of me ;__; bugs killed me so much until I got the fire aura that killed them for me

[tranquil cove]

i want them to introduce a planar dimension

and pocket dimensions for your loot

one game that has pocket dimensions for loot is dungeons of dredmore

just cool stuff that would stand out lore wise and make the game even more unique

it's more for the effect than the use, and maybe you can only use the pocket dimension, and then when you teleport back, it takes awhile to charge up to use again.

maybe it charges up faster based on kills

some sort of magical artifact of course

[tepid wadi]

I have a feeling that "raid islands" on the roadmap is going to give you some of that. Plus there's the weird artifacts from the ancients that look like portals, so who knows what the deal is there.

[obtuse scroll]

Maybe for the 'portal to other servers' thing

[peak marsh]

I was just thinking this as I was reading that

[tranquil cove]

portal to other servers was my idea im fairly confident

in fact the thing that grounded did with servers, i had that idea before their game existed too

[obtuse scroll]

Lol okay

[tranquil cove]

except lets say 2022 before that post, i floated the idea of connecting servers with portals, this is in corekeeper discord. btw.

probably i had this idea since valheim came out

makes sense

valheim had portals

valheim came out in 2021

[timber prism]

Weaving "portals" to connect servers is not a new idea and has been used in survival games for a long time

Atlas had that mesh system to connect servers in 2018

Last oasis also used it

[misty arch]

conan exiles does it as well but the better version is with mods

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzUADHx0WCQ

The video isn't as vitriolic as the thumbnail, I'm guessing that's for the clicks. More talking about the difficult position gamers are put in because of the prices and detailing why it is Nintendo decided to price things the way they did

He actually does a pretty good job exploring both sides. Like, people forget how long Switch has been around, adjusted for inflation the Switch would have been $400 at launch

[peak marsh]

Like, it doesn't necessarily make me any happier about the costs but it's a far cry from all the "OMG NINTENDO BAD" discourse going around at the moment

[tranquil cove]

they connect player run servers?

it was in furcadia in the 90s, and i played that

[peak marsh]

And I mean, this is just the start of things. Since the tariffs announced today include a 49% tariff on products from Vietnam, a whole lot of consumer electronics are going to get more expensive because since the US has a large presence there, a lot of companies moved their production facilities to Vietnam hoping to avoid all these tariff hits, because ultimately artificially higher prices (as in, higher prices not coming directly from material or production costs) hurt overall sales

[tranquil cove]

they used dreams worlds to connect player made areas to a community area

and they invented their own programming language called dragonspeak so kids could program in these "dreams"

i told you, i had the ideas first 😄

i was literally around before "internet gaming"

[peak marsh]

Erm, gaming has been around since the 70s xD

Internet gaming since the 90s xD

[tranquil cove]

yeah im not 70s old 😦

but i was 11 in the 90s

[peak marsh]

I mean, if you really want to be technical MUDs have been around since the 80s

[tranquil cove]

the only thing is that furcadia dreams were not separate servers, it was all run on the same server

[peak marsh]

UO launched in 1996, and that is credited as the first "true" MMO, and it wasn't even the first online gaming experience

[tranquil cove]

yeah i played UO in 1997

[peak marsh]

Same. I occasionally go back on private shards from time to time, something about that game is just timeless

And like, more than just nostalgia, there's something satisfying about it that a majority of MMOs seem to miss

Or maybe that is just nostalgia and my glasses are just too rose-colored to notice xD

I'm trying to be mindful of the whole nostalgia glasses thing because I don't want to turn into one of those "back in MY day" gamers xD

I also try to remind myself that MMOs seemed better back then because they were basically the Discord of their time. Like, outside of things like mIRC we didn't really have things like broader chat applications, just direct messaging, email, things like that, so of course MMOs felt more social then because they were basically the social media of their time

[timber prism]

No to mesh separate servers so you can freely travel from one to another when you hit its border

[peak marsh]

Like, which MMOs you played was basically "which Discord servers are you on?" in a way

I actually remember hopping on to Dark Age of Camelot to hook up with a few guild members so we could play Red Alert 2 (holy crap I'm an old guy xD)

[peak marsh]

@tepid wadi On reading this back, I feel like this is an important piece to the puzzle of "why don't MMOs feel like they used to?"

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I mean the thing about MMOs that makes them special is the social aspect. It's what other games can't really contend with. For a modern MMO to be a success, they have to build the game in such a way that it encourages social play, even when playing by yourself. They have to make you WANT to engage with other players. It's something that no MMO seems to actually be trying to do (and be creative about it), they're all just remaking the MMOs of the past without considering how the world has changed.

[tranquil cove]

every mmo after ultima was just a solo experience

it was pretty silly

solo experience, quest grinds

[vague galleon]

personally I like it as an alternate game mode or an optional thing where say, you place an item that draws enemies, but maybe not as a normal game mode.

[tranquil cove]

only game that broke the mould was dungeons and dragons online for a time.

but then they ruined it by becoming pay to play

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, that's the thing. Communication is easy now, getting on discord with your guild, hanging out with your friends. an MMO needs to build itself so that you WANT to engage with people that you have no other connection with than seeing them in the game.

[vague galleon]

honestly im just surprised it took this long.

Solo MMOs are stupid.

why do people choose to play an MMO as a single player experience when single player games that are built for single player do it better in literally every way

less water down combat, less water down quests, etc.

and how the heck is runescape one of the MMOs to actually do good quests?

[tepid wadi]

Sometimes people feel like they want to have the community even if they aren't directly interacting.

[vague galleon]

people are weird.

[tepid wadi]

The immersion of being in a world, etc etc

[vague galleon]

im not saying im entirely innocent of not fully engaging with the community in an MMO, but, bleh.

the downside to having quests require other players though is finding people to do them with.

small communities, not wanting to repeat quests, etc.

[tepid wadi]

Well that's the thing. Everyone's just been on the 'copy WoW' train, that you really need to reinvent the wheel when building a new MMO, but no one seems to be building somethign that is pushing the social nature of the games.

You can build mechanics so that players want to interact in positive ways with other players they encounter, even strangers.

You just have to be willing to push outside the box of the common mechanics we see today

[vague galleon]

i like dot hack sign with it's silver something guild.

[tepid wadi]

You have to put social gameplay at the forefront of your design process. Like, how do we take a crafting system and use it to encourage social play with your guildmates, but also with randos you have no other connection with? How do we build the world and travel systems and level design and combat and environments in such a way that players are drawn together to work together positively?

Also on the PvP side, that adds more flavor. In most games, you see someone and it's a heavy PvP warning if nothing else. They might grief you, be on the other team, whatever. If you find ways to promote positive social play, it means that when you see another player, the first instinct isn't to mistrust them. That makes it more meaningful when they reveal themselves to be a PKer

I may or may not spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff.

[vague galleon]

i think the wilds for runescape was probably a good idea.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, for sure. That's kinda what I mean about designing your world. Like, I think people often get stuck in the WoW-style faction system, where there's a clear "enemy."

I think it's a LOT more interesting if there isn't a direct faction system, but instead there are nations/areas with at least partially player run justice systems

[vague galleon]

ya, it allows anyone to engage in pvp without having to worry about getting ganked while talking to the king.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, and you can have different areas with different justice styles. And if there's an amount of player/guild agency in determining those laws, it can be REAL interesting. A lot of dynamic content can be created by letting player groups decide what to do with ownership, justice, etc.

Especially when you consider aspects like player housing. If I live in a city and pay taxes to the guild that owns it, but they don't set up the justice system to protect me? I might move elsewhere.

But then there also can be 'wilds' style zones that aren't under the jurisdiction of any of the cities where it's a lawless wasteland and you can't trust anyone you don't know.

[vague galleon]

runescape had decent housing.

[tepid wadi]

One of the hardest parts is all of those aspects blend together. You have to build your housing, justice, city, and world systems so that they all work together towards the goal of encouraging socialization.

[vague galleon]

also runecape's world map is way better than wow's.

it actually looks like a world and not just a bunch of zones walled off from each other.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, world design is really important

[vague galleon]

i think starwars TOR felt engaging with its quests as well.
just like runescape it gave you dialogue choices.

playing the soldier was fun. i didnt make it 5 minutes into the jedi because melee was such a snooze fest. i really despise most mmo combat systems.

i think the reason i played so much runescape waa becauase i started in middle school and had few rpg options.
didnt have access to all the pc games and runescape was free.

in my 20s i got steam and elder scrolls and curated my tastes.

but ive always despised wow for its do 10 things and utter lack of interaction with the story.
FF14 wasnt any better.

[peak marsh]

FF14 was kind of fun during the leveling process, but I bounced off of the dungeon experience and dungeon runs are basically the main reason I play MMOs

Like, compared to ESO the group dynamic just felt... meh

And I've seen videos/streams from a friend of mine of the endgame and that just seems like playing a rhythm game with a hotbar

[tranquil cove]

https://youtu.be/XzFsgg_nh0g?

https://youtu.be/FTL8ncLEO1U

[timber prism]

I still think FF14 has some if not the best raiding in mmos

[peak marsh]

Well and in full fairness, I didn't play into the endgame, my dungeon experience was all during the leveling when most people are just shooting through as fast as possible, so maybe I didn't experience the good part, the game just lost me before that

[timber prism]

Even dungeons. When ARR came out... you could do some really fun stuff... like I tanked as a summoner once I had titan bc could run all dps and one healer and tank it with my summon

I ran a server first progression guild and found the whole experience quite enjoyable

I think there were some issues to the game like pacing for sure for combat because at low levels you didn't have a lot of off cd abilities to weave between gcds

[timber prism]

Yeah. My whole guild was in the camp as shoot through as fast as possible bc we server first all the content. How does that affect your dungeon experience? I never really thought about things like that.

Was it bc people didn't talk?

[peak marsh]

Basically, at least during leveling I felt like I was slowing things down and the dungeons felt meaningless, because everyone else was just firing through everything so fast. Like all I was doing was basically running along with everyone and not really taking anything away from it

Like, I didn't feel like I was learning or experiencing anything, I was just performing a task until it was time to go back to the leveling treadmill

[timber prism]

I feel like that is how trinity systems work in general to me

Im a tank.. I tank.. healer just heals, dps just dps

Levels are synced so its not like they could one shot stuff where you couldn't perform your role so you would at least see mechanics

Was it bc people knew the mechanics already?

While you were seeing them for the first time?

[peak marsh]

Maybe. It's a little difficult to describe but while playing healer I didn't feel like I was having an impact on the run. I also wasn't necessarily a fan of that, having some skills removed based on the dungeon I was running. Made it feel like I couldn't properly practice my kit

[vague galleon]

I'll say it a million times. if your comment on a game is "oh just wait for the endgame" then the game sucks.
I want to have fun the entire time.

[peak marsh]

I mean, it heavily depends and from a design standpoint I'll somewhat agree, in that if your leveling process is just a slog you need to go through to reach "the fun part" it probably just shouldn't exist, but I'd submit that especially for MMOs with complex role dynamics and interactions, and complicated mechanics, there does need to be a certain degree of practice and gradually making players familiar with how they work

Like, taking someone who is brand new to an MMO and just dumping them into an endgame raid with full gear and kit would be a confusing and overwealming experience, you need to introduce a lot of those stats, skills, and mechanics gradually for people to learn them

[vague galleon]

sure sure.

but it still has to be fun.

like making leveling up at low level a bit quicker and have it be exciting to unlock new skills and find cool gear.

diablo and torchlight do it well.

although those arent MMOs

[timber prism]

diablo is not fun low level?

wdym? lmao

[vague galleon]

okay son.

[timber prism]

you might think it is but i think it has the same issues

[vague galleon]

I had fun playing Diablo 1 and 2 the entire time.

[timber prism]

poe2 also has the issue of not being fun low level

so much to the point you can't even use certain builds and skills till later

[vague galleon]

Runescape's first quest is simple but great. get materials for a cake. you explore the world and interact with stuff and learn how the game works.

[timber prism]

so much to the point some classes use a bow just to get through low levels

[peak marsh]

No, I think MMOs could stand to learn from ARPGs in the sense that they make the leveling process engaging between gearing up and learning new skills but also like, I think games like Tarisland for it's faults does one thing well in that you hit the group content right away and often

[timber prism]

im glad you had fun playing Diablo 1 and 2 the whole way

XD

[peak marsh]

The solo leveling experience in MMOs is a slog, make dungeons the main form of leveling so people can interact more and learn their roles more

[timber prism]

D3 and D4 weren't like that for me

[vague galleon]

I never did play much once I finished Diablo 2 the first time, barely touched nightmare.
D1 I maxed out my character.

D3 was fine, never played D4.

[timber prism]

i haven't played D1 and D2 in so long i can't comment.. i was a small child playing those games

[vague galleon]

I reccomend D2R, it's pretty decent.

[peak marsh]

Like, don't make dungeons an afterthought until you're level 60, make them the main part of the game

Yeah, the Diablo 2 remaster was really well done, for as much as I dislike Blizzard these days

[vague galleon]

I was shocked how much they DIDNT mess it up, after WC3R

[timber prism]

i remember being a big fan of hardcore and PK'ing in the first 2 Diablo games

collecting ears as a kind was great.. i was in a guild where we would rank up in the guild depending on how many and who's ear we would return with

[vague galleon]

i never did that much online.

i mostly played it on a shitty old mac.

im still mad my mom and stepdad tossed that thing. i wanted to replicate my old D2 save file........

[peak marsh]

Battlenet was great back in the day. I played a ton of LoD on it xD

[timber prism]

trusty 486 XD

33 and 56k modems

those were the days

[vague galleon]

going back to D2 awhile back I found D2 base game with a max of 800 x 600 was unplayable but D1 was fine.
D2LoD with the upgraded resolution was fine.

[timber prism]

i still remember when battlenet dropped

[peak marsh]

There was a special kind of gamer rage when you were really into a fight online in D2 or a match in Unreal or Red Alert 2, then your grandma calls and interrupts the connection xD

[timber prism]

i think it was Warcraft 2????

i used to have to go to bed and then sneak to play games

[vague galleon]

i think so

[timber prism]

my dad would get so pissed when he woke up in the middle in the night and found me playing at like 1 am LMAO

my gamer addiction was real

or like finding early xmas presents... i would wrap them back up but play my video game gift early

[vague galleon]

lol

[timber prism]

i will never forget that memory doing it for this game lmao

[tranquil cove]

where are you guys from? ticonz, endalrin and rhoisaad?

diablo 4s model is just something i can never get into as i don't like missing content in games and the only way to not miss content is to make the game the only one you play, almost like a job.

prefer games where you can unlock all the content at any time, even if its years later.

warframe for example, you can do that.

no content in warframe is cut off to you permenantly.

they just cycle it, so for a year it may not be available.

the first POE seemed really generic to me

like i think i made it to level 50, and it was a lot of classing stuff and trying to get a good build going, but... i don't know it seemed more like a business than a game to me. it just lacked something to keep me playing.

maybe POE 2 is better

the fact that POE 1 i grinded to 50, and then just quit the game entirely is funny too, and kind of insulting to their game. because supposedly it would get more interesting then. but even after putting all the work in just outright quitting and not looking back for 8 years or something is funny.

and no desire to go back, a very tiny desire to try POE2, if it was free.

but its not free.

if POE2 was on sale for $12 i would buy it

but something about buying a game that then has a pay model inside it?

does POE2 have a pay model in it too?

like if people already dropping $45 on a game, i expect everything to be free after that.

pay $45 to get roped into more payments isn't my idea of a good game

[peak marsh]

California, here

POE will be free after early access ends, the paid part is just to jump in early before it's finished. Inside the game, the only MTs are cosmetic and for more storage space, which you don't really need unless you're really big into the trading economy

[tranquil cove]

what shard did you play on in UO? i used to be on Chesapeake

[tranquil cove]

can you earn the storage space some other way?

through trading, for example

can i earn items that people will trade currency for, and then buy storage?

which is what you can do in warframe

[peak marsh]

Lake Superior. And no, but you start with 6 stash pages which are fairly large, like I say the expansions are really only if you're a hard core trader and hoarding a ton of items

No other items or upgrades are cash transactions

I've heard a ton of people accuse POE as pay 2 win because of the paid stash tab thing but really, you get a ton of space to start with, it's not as big a deal as I've seen made of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLd5ydqevvU - This looks kind of interesting

[tepid wadi]

POE2 is only not free for early access. When it hits 1.0 it's going to be free just like POE1, so you can just wait until then and not need to pay for it.

It'll have the same payement model (cosmetics and storage only, supporter packs, etc)

Buying the storage is more of a one time fee, like if you made the game $35 and it gave you all the storage tabs and stuff, it would basically be the same effect.

[peak marsh]

And again, unless you're a big item trader and hoarding a ton of items, the storage really isn't necessary

[timber prism]

unless you are playing SSF, you want storage

[peak marsh]

Also of note, cosmetics and storage I believe will carry over between the games, so if you buy some on 2 you also have them on 1 and vice-versa

[timber prism]

bc endgame POE is literally just a trading game

hoarding tons of items to sell to buyers so you can make your build.. it was actually a huge problem already cuz things became so expensive

[peak marsh]

IDK, I played a ton of POE through endgame without storage and didn't really miss it. Maybe it's changed over the last few years, admittedly it's been a while for me

[timber prism]

too quick imo

im speaking of POE2 experience

POE wasnt as bad but it was a lot of crafting in the later years

which also needed currency

im curious how this league is going to address said issues

they already caved and nerfing monster HP

XD

which i mean... they are at least trying to make changes haha

[tranquil cove]

when is 1.0?

[timber prism]

who knows

its gonna be at least six months

[peak marsh]

I think I heard something about late Q3/Q4 this year but IDK how accurate that is or if it's changed

[timber prism]

and it came out in December

[tepid wadi]

They said there's a 65% chance that it launches this year, so I'm guessing... next summer

[tepid wadi]

Needed IMO, but it's not really addressing the root problem

[vague galleon]

Wisconsin.

i quit POE 1 cause it was too grimdark for me right off the bat. watched the trailer for POE 2 and just said nope right away.

theres a reason i love TL2.

[peak marsh]

I loved the atmosphere of 1, I thought they did a really good job giving those kind of Diablo vibes

[timber prism]

I much prefer the look of D1,D2,D4 and the POE series over TL... which always looked way too cartoony close to the stylistic choice of WOW which I also never liked.

[tepid wadi]

You might like Last Epoch

[raven hound]

Small lands

[tepid wadi]

Last Epoch is a lot more fantasy and a lot less grimdark. It's got kind of Chrono Trigger vibes as far as time travel and stuff, but it's a lot brighter than POE/Diablo

[vague galleon]

I did not.

bought the full package and regretted it.

it's very janky and unpolished.

[timber prism]

hopefully you will enjoy Titan Quest 2 haha

cuz thats the only thing i can think of that isn't grimdark

[vague galleon]

I dunno, wasnt a huge fan of TQ1

[timber prism]

oh

T_T

[vague galleon]

Grim Dawn wasnt too bad but i picked soldier and got bored.

TQ1 seems to be a game where I'd need to start my second playthrough to actually enjoy it.

I NEED shiny loot drops.

D1, D2, TL1, TL2, all great game, GD always did a good job.

[timber prism]

i can't remember you said you didnt try D3?

[vague galleon]

TL3 is.... the gameplay is quite insatisfying.

I beat D3, it was.... okay.

TL3 looks amazing, I love what they did with the bases and the pets, but the gameplay loop was just, not good.

[vague galleon]

ya, the cartoony look is half the reason I love the torchlight series.

kind of like how it's hard to go back to morrowind or skyrim but not oblivion. I love vibrant colors.

[timber prism]

can't mod that in?

[vague galleon]

i mean, maybe?

but.. sigh. i cant go back to that....

[timber prism]

i never tried Oblivion modding but im sure what you are looking for exists haha

[vague galleon]

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/2e7/5d7/73e020f56c4a86221823bc32113b4316d2-25-ben-affleck-sad-smoke.rvertical.w330.jpg

my modding experience with skyrim burned me out HARD

oddly i never did any for FO4 but like 6-10 for NV

[raven hound]

Facts

[peak marsh]

3 1/2 weeks till No Rest for the Wicked -.-

[timber prism]

Loving this new mystery box for POE haha

[frank sonnet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feNk7qsU2lY

[peak marsh]

lol. Who was asking for that?

[tepid wadi]

Idk people love farming simulator. There a space for everyone

[peak marsh]

I mean sure, but Big Rigs is one of those notoriously bad video games from I think the PS1 era? It's old and notorious enough that AVGN did a video on it xD

It famously had a bug where driving in reverse had no top speed, so you could drive backwards until you break the barrier of time and space and literally drive off the map and into an endless void

[vague galleon]

thats why it was so good. MOOZ

[timber prism]

I can see the appeal for simulators for sure.. but a big rig racing game where you aren't shipping cargo but racing for lap times is something I didnt think it would be when i clicked on that link lmao

https://store.steampowered.com/app/270880/American_Truck_Simulator/

Steam

American Truck Simulator

Experience legendary American trucks and deliver various cargoes across sunny California, sandy Nevada, and the Grand Canyon State of Arizona. American Truck Simulator takes you on a journey through the breathtaking landscapes and widely recognized landmarks around the States.

Game mechanics are based on the highly successful model from Euro T…

Price

$4.99

Recommendations

143805

Metacritic

76

▶ Play video

Like this... is a fantastic game

overwhelming positive reviews on steam with 141k reviews

[vague galleon]

are there any monster truck racing games? surely there would be!

[peak marsh]

Yeah, it's not one of those deeper simulator games, it's literally just a racing game with truck cabs, and a notoriously bad one at that xD

[timber prism]

definitely

multiple

[peak marsh]

For sure, have been for ages xD

[timber prism]

im all for more racing games tho

[peak marsh]

Looks like Monster Jam is the currently running series of them

[timber prism]

its been the year of jdm which im all about

[vague galleon]

i wish racing games didnt cheat so much.

[timber prism]

so many good jdm games

[vague galleon]

Monster Jam, I figured as muich.

Fuel was pretty good until later in the game where the rubberbanding gets completely out of hand.

[timber prism]

this is great

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2634950/Tokyo_Xtreme_Racer/

Steam

Tokyo Xtreme Racer

"Tokyo Xtreme Racer" is a racing game set in a sealed-off future Tokyo, where you compete for the fastest speed in your customized cars on the highways that weave through the city, aiming to reach the top.

Drive real cars on meticulously recreated courses, compete against powerful rivals,

slip through other cars, and engage in spirit-wracking…

Price

$29.99

Recommendations

10284

▶ Play video

[peak marsh]

I used to love that game on I think Dreamcast? PS2?

[timber prism]

yeah.. i played the dreamcast one a lot

[peak marsh]

I liked how it was kind of an open world Tokyo highway until you flash your lights at a rival

[timber prism]

yup!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1153410/JDM_Japanese_Drift_Master/

Steam

JDM: Japanese Drift Master

Explore the birthplace of drift and dive into Japan’s iconic car culture!

JDM: Japanese Drift Master combines realistic, carefully-tuned physics in a simcade experience that’s as smooth on a controller as it is with sim racing hardware. Tackle hundreds of kilometers of open-world roads and uncover story-driven events and quests along the…

Release Date

May 21, 2025

▶ Play video

im looking forward to this in May

[peak marsh]

Honestly, price discussions aside the concept of Mario Kart being open world, where driving to the next track is basically part of the race seems cool

I'd like to see more racing games have that sort of open world approach

[timber prism]

with Forza Horizon being so popular it seems like a good experiment to at least try

im looking forward to it

[vague galleon]

do you think when enshrouded gets mounts, we'll get a racing mini game as well? Seeing Cade on a goat would be hilarious.

[timber prism]

Never even thought about that

that would be interesting lmao.. player made courses being a possibility

[peak marsh]

Enshrouded Kart Racers, make it a thing

[vague galleon]

[peak marsh]

Could have the hunter on a wolf, Oswald on a yak, etc

[vague galleon]

exactly!

[tepid wadi]

Sounds like great april fools fodder

[peak marsh]

lol. Here we go, getting tons of videos in my YT feed talking about "massive Switch 2 boycott over price" etc. I have yet to see a gaming boycott actually happen, they always get talked about then when the time comes, the people who don't buy the thing are the same people who either weren't buying it anyway or can't afford to for economic reasons

Like, history has proven gamers are really bad at boycotts

Gamers have never been the group to spend based on their convictions, if they were both Diablo Immortal and Diablo 4 should have failed miserably instead of being wildly profitable

[peak marsh]

https://youtu.be/kxmbzaZV5UE?t=2155 - Really kind of raises the question of what the Xbox handheld will wind up looking like (video URL jumps to video summary)

TLDR, $750 for a handheld with 2021 performance and a 90 minute battery life in performance mode, but excellent screen and ergonomics. Basically right idea on the experience but wrong idea on internals

[vague galleon]

90 minutes. kek.

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upirpwiSh44 - A little late posting but for anyone who doesn't follow Force directly

[vague galleon]

15 for just april?! I dont have that kind of time!

[peak marsh]

It's kind of wild, between new releases and updates to current games

April is really packed, especially if you're into ARPGs

Major releases aside, I'm actually kind of stoked Commandos is coming back, hopefully they do it well

I loved those games back in the day

But yeah you have new releases plus PoE2, Last Epoch, V Rising, Diablo 4, and No Rest for the Wicked all getting major updates

[vague galleon]

oh, i recall that was one of those games I bought cause it was like 0.50-2.00 for 4 games to raise up my game count.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, the original Commandos games (late 90s - early 00s) regularly go on sale dirt cheap

I'm pretty stoked about a new one

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saycvcuVfng

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yXDFFWmx8Q

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_BBnuR-BZE - Since I follow the space, I'm going to start posting videos of "handheld gaming alternatives" xD

Mind you, if you're streaming games from PC built-in specs don't mean a whole lot

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqTX8ZXH4DQ - Speaking of, this one from a few days ago is pretty comprehensive not just in terms of the handheld itself but in PC streaming options in general

(Of note, Aretmis and Apollo is a common suite of streaming software, where Artemis runs on your handheld and Apollo runs on your PC)

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/PZUv1-qR1Aw?si=D1J0htjpBgEdKafg

[peak marsh]

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/lost-skies-lovely-looking-sky-islands-will-be-launching-into-early-access-later-this-month

Of note, you can already download the island creator to play around with it

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2102670/Lost_Skies_Island_Creator/

Steam

Lost Skies: Island Creator

Lost Skies: Island Creator allows you to create your very own island for the upcoming co-op survival game Lost Skies. Create your own sky island full of stunning vistas and brutal enemies, then release it into the world via the Steam Workshop!

**
**…

▶ Play video

[timber prism]

Too early imo but I hope it does well

[peak marsh]

The concept is pretty cool, that you can design islands and upload them to Steam Workshop

https://www.yankodesign.com/2025/04/06/next-gen-xbox-handheld-leaked-nbc-today-show-accidentally-reveals-mysterious-new-device/

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_f-LXmvQC8

[timber prism]

Yeah. Its pretty cool. They have been using our islands for all the builds so far

[peak marsh]

I've seen this a lot today, but I'm a little over people making a big deal that Nintendo didn't specifically use hall effect sticks in the Switch 2. Like, they've only confirmed it's not hall effect, they haven't confirmed if it's potentiometers like the original Switch or some other drift-resistant option, because there are others besides hall effect

I mean yeah, if it's old school potentiometers that would be pretty garbo, but we don't know what it is other than "not hall effect"

Tunneling Magnetoresistance (TMR) Sensors:
TMR sensors, like Hall effect sensors, are used for magnetic sensing, but they offer higher precision and are gaining popularity in applications like gaming controllers and keyboards.
They are designed to deliver even more precise accuracy than what the Hall Effect can achieve.
TMR sensors are also known for their availability, cost-effectiveness, and same fit/form packaging for drop-in replacement.

Like, for all we know they use that or another of the like 8 different sensor options on the market. People are just using "hall effect" as another buzzword to dunk on Nintendo without knowing what they actually used

That isn't me trying to defend Nintendo, it's just a whole lot of freaking out without having all the information. Like, there are plenty of other, known reasons to dunk on Nintendo

xD

[vague galleon]

well said.

[timber prism]

Sometimes its a good idea to just not keep up/care what people are saying

People are mostly sheep/idiots

[peak marsh]

I mostly have been, I just keep seeing that same headline pop up in my various news/video feeds and after reading the original quote the first time it just struck me how click-baity it is. People just jumping on the Nintendo hate train for the sake of it without any valid information

[timber prism]

People jump on the hate train for everything haha

But yeah... Switch 2 + tariffs seems to be the most current that I am seeing aside from POE2

[peak marsh]

The offical prices for the welcome tour and the BotW/TotK upgrades are out. $9.99 for each (unless you have Switch Online, in which case the upgrades are free)

Charging $10 for the welcome tour thing still seems really silly to me

[frank sonnet]

So i discorved this is going to be a thing from a another sever

[peak marsh]

lol. Yeah that was their April 1st release

Palworld the dating sim

But like, I guess they're actually making it

[soft cairn]

seen worst stuff on steam so as long someone will pay, they will do the game 😄

[vague galleon]

and people WILL buy it.

[peak marsh]

And I mean, they have enough money to goof around and make what they want whether or not it's a huge success, but it probably will be after a bunch of streamers play it for the lulz

[timber prism]

https://bsky.app/profile/wario64.bsky.social/post/3lmcstimizt2k

Wario64 (@wario64.bsky.social)

“Pre-orders for Nintendo Switch 2 in Canada will not start on April 9, 2025 in order to align with the timing of pre-orders to be determined in the U.S. Nintendo will provide updated information at a later date. The launch date of June 5 is unchanged.” mobilesyrup.com/2025/04/08/n...

Bluesky · Apr 8, 2025, 3:42 PM

🇨🇦 🙏 🇺🇸

[tranquil cove]

i saw some article

saying switch 2 has some chat feature? that was somewhat designed with the pandemic in mind?

https://www.polygon.com/553024/nintendo-built-the-switch-2-for-the-next-societal-shutdown

here it is

[peak marsh]

lol. I read that and, weird take

[peak marsh]

Late follow up yeah, it has a chat button but the whole pandemic association is just weird imo. It's just Nintendo doing their take on Discord and making the online membership more worthwhile, I doubt they're planning for another shutdown

Unless you wear a tin-foil fedora anyhow xD

IDK, maybe making the association because the Switch got popular during the lockdowns? But part of that too is people had stimulus checks and a bunch of free time, and right around then was when Switch had a price drop and the Lite and OLED launched. The article just seems like a weird reach

[low isle]

The cyberpunk experience

[timber prism]

Sensational headline to clickbait people XD

[peak marsh]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2239710/Into_the_Dead_Our_Darkest_Days/ -This just popped up on my radar and seems interesting. Zombie survival take on This War of Mine?

Steam

Into the Dead: Our Darkest Days

PUBLIC DEMO AVAILABLE NOW

Into the Dead: Our Darkest Days is a side-scrolling shelter survival game that tasks you with guiding a desperate group of zombie apocalypse survivors to safety. Craft weapons, scavenge resources, balance your group’s needs, and try to get everyone out of danger alive.

…

Release Date

Apr 9, 2025

▶ Play video

[timber prism]

I played the demo and had fun a while back

Not sure on longevity but it was fun to find survivors and add them into the mix with the starter characters

The combat wasn't complex enough to keep me entertained

[peak marsh]

Yeah it kinda seems like one of those you play through once and never really have a reason to revisit

Which, I mean is fine if it's priced that way

[timber prism]

I think they are aiming for repayability which is the issue

Cuz you have a few character combos to start

Def recommend trying it!

[peak marsh]

Oh like, you can pick your early game "survivor pool"?

Personally (and granted I don't know much about the game so maybe this is already a thing xD) I think replayability would be dramatically increased if your main character had different "builds" based on their background. Think Oregon Trail, like where you can pick a factory worker who is really good with manufacturing and creating things and maybe has better physical stats, or a marketing guy who is basically hard mode in all the physical tasks but is really good at influencing people. Like in Oregon Trail where you can be the Trapper from Kentucky or the Banker from Ohio, and each has different starting strengths

Almost give it kind of a roguelite element where each new game starts out differently and maybe plays out differently over the course based on what you can and can't do early on

It would just fit the setting, like how would different people adapt to a zombie apocalypse

I feel like in zombie games, the zombies are the least interesting part. Like, they're basically there to give a backdrop for character stories and the more you can lean into that, the better the story winds up being. Walking Dead basically ran with that

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/X10BkdQB2hM - I enjoy having my opinions validated xD

[timber prism]

Yeah. Start with various preset combos of two survivors

And yeah each characters has a pro and con attributes

[peak marsh]

That could make things interesting then. Again, I need to learn more about it

[vague galleon]

i bet you do, nerd. 🤓 😛

[peak marsh]

I cannot deny the allegations

[vague galleon]

👍

[peak marsh]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nintendo-Switch-2-specs-and-performance-compared-to-Steam-Deck-in-new-tech-analysis.994766.0.html

[karmic edge]

If someone wanna play beta version send me a pm and give u the code to join.

[peak marsh]

The real titan quest is THQ Nordic somehow surviving Embracer Group xD

[tepid wadi]

I too live in fantasy land.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, I mean Embracer has a pretty impressive kill streak

44 studios, 80+ projects and probably counting

From June 2023 to May 2024, the structuring had led to the loss of 4532 employees, the closure of 44 studios, and cancellation of 80 in-development projects, including a new Deus Ex, TimeSplitters and Red Faction games. Despite these steps, the company still faced $1.5 billion in debt.

[tepid wadi]

Almost like if seeing their projects to release, they might have made more money than if they cut the projects early 🤔

New Deus Ex and Red Faction games would've been hype

[latent glade]

I’d be down to try it

Would streaming it live on twitch be aloud?

Sent you a pm

[peak marsh]

Definitely in both cases, and it begs the question of what would have been if Embracer wasn't involved

Like, if cash-happy speculators hadn't gotten themselves entrenched in the gaming industry to their degree

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, unfortunately we'll never know.

[peak marsh]

I personally blame the pandemic, incidentally. It created a market bubble that attracted the investor crowd. It's the same for retro games, the pandemic saw a huge upswing in people buying retro titles and gave rise to insufferable groups like Wata

And if you don't know the name Wata, I admire the world you live in xD

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I don't know Wata you're talking about

[peak marsh]

Short version is they're an auction group specifically tied to retro games who had backers/investors/speculators who were highly invested in making profits and are single handedly responsible for the dramatic rise in retro game prices over the last 3-4 years

Think the comic price boom of the late 90s, only tied to gaming and amplified by 1,000

Like, I would imagine a lot of people who were heavily invested in Wata went on to have fleeting careers trading in NFTs

Those types of people, but who were actively creating an ecosystem where a hobby is suddenly dramatically out of reach. Like, thanks to them games that were valued around $20-30 are now valued over $100, because they were controlling both the appraisal market and the auction house

Like, they got to artificially declare the value of certain games and affect the market to reflect that value in order to reap maximum profits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkUUm0zDLY

[tepid wadi]

Well maybe after all the fallout, we'll have big companies making games that just make money again instead of all these upsets.

[peak marsh]

I have a feeling we're in for a paradigm shift, where companies will finally be punished enough by both various laws and investor speculation that it will finally become more profitable to just make money by making quality products, and it will be driven by indies and AA

[vague galleon]

oh. i remember something about that.
ya when i moced home in 2017 i finally got guantlet dsrk legacy for 17 bucks.
now its like 70. last i looked.

[peak marsh]

Yep. That's Wata

[vague galleon]

Bullet Storm 2 when?

[peak marsh]

Wata (apprasial group) and Heritage Auctions (auction house)

[vague galleon]

i remember when BS came out and i snubbed my nose at the vulgar gory game.
then a few years back i played it and screamed for a sequel.

[gaunt nebula]

We need a new time splitters

It's create your own level was aswome

[vague galleon]

it was but the max bar size filled up way too fast.

[peak marsh]

Well that's unfortunate. Commandos: Origins launched, but it launched at $59.99 with 3 DLCs and two tiers of Digital Deluxe

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/62VPjaeJCzo?si=h-O7ebhYJatkr0Rz

[karmic edge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpQ8m1utRyk

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/3JZRalyPE-s?si=RmZJ9n0RZuKm9bkE

https://youtu.be/x_59w8EP9Qs?si=FRzBzZ8tQYISGDKC

[peak marsh]

Oakvile had me pretty stoked

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/DqcekLQnVgc?si=zxno2t5h8M8ioraR

[peak marsh]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/survival-crafting/enshroudeds-next-update-promises-a-rebirth-of-the-shroud-with-new-monsters-resources-and-a-whole-new-weapon-customization-system/ -for those who are stuck at work and can't watch videos

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/TpiF6--EM5c?si=Edacd5W7HsKZdR6I

[finite saffron]

feels like if albion online had a baby with planetside 2

[peak marsh]

Warborne has my interest. I like the whole mobile base idea in a game like that

I also like that it seems like there's a separation between early game leveling and the pvp zones

Though LazyPeon did a review and said it basically felt too separated, like it took too long to get to the pvp stuff

[timber prism]

Wildgate is live and keys went out if you signed up!

[timber prism]

Its fun mass pvp

My friends have been playing it

Good shot calling goes a long way

[peak marsh]

https://www.eurogamer.net/star-citizen-has-now-raised-over-800m-with-still-no-10-release-in-sight

xD

[misty arch]

well at least we will get an amazing game engine that wont be outdated for at least 3 years.

[peak marsh]

I feel like 3 quarters of a billion with a B dollars should get at least that xD

[tranquil cove]

i want 3 quarters + a billion dollars

1 billion 75 cents

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/6ZbcbtTLsxI?si=G6py9Z6CYcK-DgGn

[peak marsh]

No YT I wasnt trying to copy the link for the ad -.-

https://youtu.be/go9AJjaEWFs?si=e8i8cfb9yu-3oPUb

[peak marsh]

https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/microtransactions-made-up-58-of-pc-video-game-revenue-in-2024-research-shows/

🤢

[finite saffron]

I can guarantee if we could see the mobile numbers the ratio would be way crazier

[peak marsh]

Oh for sure. The nauseating part is that's purely PC numbers, not console or mobile

Though, qualifying statement, they also include things like DLC and expansions as "microtransactions"

So it's not all skins and season passes

But that makes it troubling, because while obnoxious it's actually the smart business decision to have day 1 DLCs and things like that

The big triple-A dream, where a "game" is just a platform you buy into in order to get access to the drip feed of content

[finite saffron]

Profit wise it's always better in the short term to have mtx/dlc, it can just hurt long-term customer relations

[peak marsh]

I mean, even then it doesn't seem to. Fortnite and COD are doing fine. They might get blasted in online forums but they're plenty profitable from a business standpoint and a model other devs will want to emulate and aspire to

[finite saffron]

Simply because whales are a thing tbh, some guy buying 1000 dollars worth of skins would be more than people buying 30 copies of enshrouded

and there's a shocking amount of people willing to spend that kind of money on mtx

[tepid wadi]

Didn't some senior person come out and say that the titanfall 3 leaks were fake? I thought I saw something about that

[peak marsh]

Yeah, it wasn't necessarily someone at the studio but a "senior gaming insider", whatever that means xD

[finite saffron]

senior rumor spreader

[peak marsh]

I honestly don't get this. Like, I know a lot of whales are people who buy power to stand over other players, but when you're dealing in cosmetics I just find it astounding. I mean, at the levels and amounts whales spend even the power thing is confusing, but for cosmetics it's just mind boggling

[tepid wadi]

Wouldn't be the first time someone got overzealous and said Titanfall 3 was coming 😝

[peak marsh]

And if you watch like, documentaries on who whales are, they're very rarely like high level marketing execs and Saudi princes, they're regular working people who spend everything but the rent on MTX, it's wild

[tepid wadi]

Almost like games with addictive qualities and predatory MTX are bad

🤯

[finite saffron]

I'm someone who likes cosmetics, I just find it fun to customize my character and collect things. But I don't really have the kind of money to mentally justify the kind of prices a lot of games charge.

But for example I've bought every single cosmetic DLC that Deep Rock Galactic has released, because they're all very cheap and give you a lot of stuff to dress up your dwarves with.

But valorant charging like 17 dollars for a single gun skin? Yeah I'm not the target demo for that lol

[peak marsh]

Which is something I'm gradually coming around on. To date my stance has been that "at least they're just cosmetic", but I played a few older games not too long ago and I've come to realize that making yourself look cool is a big part of the rewarding aspect of gaming and locking that to purchases really removes something from the experience

Like, just because "it could be worse" doesn't necessarily also make it better

[finite saffron]

Yeah if they were meaningless people wouldn't buy them, people buy them cause they're fun and desirable.

Any game with MTX is essentially taking something away from the game experience and selling it back to you. Which isn't always bad, but it's something to keep in mind. If a game has really desirable cosmetics, it's probably cause the stuff you get for free to customize your characters is pretty lame

Valorant for example has some of the most unbelievably bland and boring default gun skins I've ever seen in a game, they're jet black with simple vhx and meh sound design. I don't think that was by accident, cause the gun skins they sell are on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, some of the flashiest and most extravogent gun models I've seen in games.

[peak marsh]

And I mean, in some games it's relatively excusable like live service games that have to pay for servers somehow, but still have options to give you visual change. The scummy ones are single player games that do it or games where your character literally doesn't change unless you swipe the ol' plastic

[finite saffron]

If you're stuck with the "default skins" you really feel like you're missing out, even if it's just subconscious.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, like that. The whole "sure, you don't need the MTX but you're going to look like an NPC the entire game"

Not to consistently come back to it but that's another aspect where POE does it well. It has cool cosmetic MTX but you get cool, dramatic visual character change as you level up and get better gear, not "only your weapon changes" or worse "nothing changes at all"

[finite saffron]

Yeah poe1/2 is probably one of the best middle grounds, your default character still changes as you collect items and doesn't look lame by any means, but the mtx are a cool addition you can buy on top of that

[peak marsh]

And they carry over! I really can't sing the praises of that loudly enough, that they actually made it so your purchased cosmetics from one game actually carry over to the other

Like, thanks to companies like Ubisoft we're having to get used to not owning anything we buy but POE is literally demonstrating a model where players can feel their purchase has actual value and it's not the digital equivelant of buying a Snickers bar (only much, much more expensive)

[finite saffron]

Yeah that honestly... blew my mind a bit. Part of me wonders if they're regretting that decision because it's going to be a LOT of work for their artists to do all those skins, and they won't be making money off of them

It was shockingly generous by games industry standards, cause that's a lot more difficult than just copy pasting

[peak marsh]

Think more 4d. They'll make money off of it, specifically because gamers will feel safe in making the purchase that it isn't just wasted money

[finite saffron]

I think they would have had a pretty big PR issue with the supporter packs if they didn't port those over at least

but yeah I'm happy because I loved my poe1 cosmetics, I already kinda miss them playing poe2 because they aren't ported over yet lol

[peak marsh]

I mean, me personally I haven't gotten POE 2 yet, just want to let it bake a little longer, but I'm significantly more inclined to buy something now that I know my previous MTs carried over and I can use them between both games

[finite saffron]

Yeah POE2 is rough around the edges in a lot of ways, waiting is not a bad idea

Which to be fair POE1 was also a total mess before it's 1.0 launch, I honestly think people just don't remember how bad it was because it was so long ago

Or maybe a lot of them were never there to play it

[peak marsh]

Yeah that's been my overall impression. It just needs some time to really gel and come together

And yeah, POE 1 was a bare bones mess back in 2013-ish

xD

So many broken builds and more broken bosses

[finite saffron]

and just like... nothing to do. You'd grind the same 3 short campaign acts 3 times in a row to get to maps, and then there were barely any maps, lol

I remember the "meta" was just sitting in the docks tileset and running it over and over again to get xp

[peak marsh]

Yep. Running docks for days to max out, then running maps

And maps were basically the same 5 or 6 maps with different modifiers

[finite saffron]

POE2 already has a ton of content which is nice it just has a lot of problems that need irond out

[peak marsh]

That's kinda been my take, which is why I'm waiting. I want to purchase just to support what GGG does but I want to wait until the outrage machine is done churning xD

And I mean, at least for now I have Last Epoch, No Rest for the Wicked, and Monster Hunter Wilds all with significant updates plus Enshrouded on the nearby horizon, I'm not starved for content xD

And lets not forget V Rising dropping a major update, which I'll probably do a fresh playthrough for

V Rising should really get more hype than it does, they're another indie studio who is doing things right

[misty arch]

PvE adventure mode coming.
https://youtu.be/GdEZyafxhI0?si=Yl6SijjtoQZUDiUO

[peak marsh]

Dark and Darker adding a PVE mode feels questionable. I'm sure it's highly requested, but it's not what their vision/direction was

[misty arch]

agreed but got to do something to help bring up those numbers. pvp can only take you so far

[peak marsh]

Not if it's good enough,which I feel adding a PVE mode distracts from xD

[finite saffron]

Not trying to sound mean, but I feel gaslit by the popularity of Dark and Darker. I played it and it was like I was transported back to a 2008 medieval combat source mod. Seriously some of the clunkiest combat I've seen in a modern game and I could not get into it at all lol

[peak marsh]

Plenty of games live and breathe and thrive soley on their PVP

[peak marsh]

Yeah, it feels like a really good Quake mod xD

By that I mean, it feels like outdated tech with mechanics built on to it that aren't refined

[misty arch]

i think it adds more to it and gives people who do not like pvp a chance to get a feel for the game but also roam around with friends. Once they have a feel for it, they can give the pvp a chance and see if its their thing but wont quit the game since they can go back to the pve side

[peak marsh]

But also it fills a niche that really isn't being tapped. Extraction shooter but with D&D overtones

[finite saffron]

Yeah I think it's just such a good idea that that carries it for most people, it's two very underdeveloped niches in one. So I guess it makes sense, but yeah that wasn't able to carry it for me lol

[misty arch]

all extraction games like these mediveal ones are is Kings Quest with pvp and a time limit

[peak marsh]

I mean, why are you building your PVP game for people who don't like PVP? Here, let me build my 3D platformer so it appeals more to racing game fans

[misty arch]

i agree on that but they already did their pvp side, this is just a bonus add on thats been requested.

[peak marsh]

When a game appeals to everyone, ultimately it appeals to no one. Just find a lane and drive the hell out of it xD

[finite saffron]

PVE modes are a pretty common request in extraction games, they're a very hardcore genre and a lot of players would rather enjoy the game without all the stress of losing hours of work to sweaty tryhards

The last game I worked on was an extraction shooter and that was also a very common request from players in that game

[misty arch]

and our favorite rpg, we are in its discord, is also one that fell under the "frequently most requested" ideas for a game when developing an open world rpg. That being co-op.

[peak marsh]

I mean, I'd aquiesce that if the PVP was so solid and good it was at the top of it's given genre - it's not, not even close, and at this juncture it feels like more of a desperate ploy than a concerted decision

[finite saffron]

Yeah it's probably an easy win, being a f2p game I imagine it's a super common request

they aren't a very big studio so

To make it work they'd 100% need to separate the two modes, though. Otherwise people would farm loot in PVE and then take it to PVP, which would be a disaster

[misty arch]

they are the studio that had to do that lawsuit hurdle in the beginning that pulled them from steam for quite awhile.

[peak marsh]

I'll grant that they were also sued not so long ago, but all the more that makes it feel like a desperate grab than an intentional design decision

[finite saffron]

I do think PVE extraction games are an untapped gold mine, I played the small indie game Sulfur and it's honestly so much fun, despite being quite barebones. I think all the fun of extraction game loot hoarding mixed with the more casual nature of a singleplayer game is a great mix

[misty arch]

right, pve extractions, as long as there is a world to support it, would be a blast

[peak marsh]

I mean, if you think about it Deep Rock Galactic is effectively a PVE extraction shooter. But also, they launched and refined with that intention in mind and made a solid experience as a result

[finite saffron]

There's also https://store.steampowered.com/app/1782120/ZERO_Sievert/
which I haven't played but have heard good things about

Steam

ZERO Sievert

The world has ended. ZERO Sievert charges you with scavenging equipment across multiple areas, all set in an atmospheric fictitious post-apocalyptic Eastern Europe setting. Your base of operations, the bunker, is filled with traders, modding stations, and areas to make your own, providing you with progression across your excursions into the wi…

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

12029

Metacritic

81

▶ Play video

[misty arch]

was just going to mention that one

the deeprock one

[finite saffron]

Yeah DRG doesn't have the permanent loot hoarding aspect, but the gameplay itself is very extractiony

[misty arch]

ok heres a question, whats your favorite extraction right now, not including already mention dark and darker, or tarkov, or fornite

[finite saffron]

ARC Raiders, I'm not sure if I can talk about it though it might still be under NDA

But it's very good

[misty arch]

i think it is

[peak marsh]

I mean, if I had to pick one I'd say Helldivers 2, but also I'm not a huge fan of the genre

[finite saffron]

Well then I can't tell you anything about it, but I can say having worked on an extraction shooter myself, Arc Raiders fixed a lot of the problems that plagued our game (and the genre as a whole). In my opinion at least

[misty arch]

needs to be out right now, does that help?

[peak marsh]

I am a huge fan of co-op and PVE games, which is why I have thoughts about Dark and Darker xD

[finite saffron]

They all kinda suck if I'm being honest haha

[misty arch]

ill give it a shot for the pve, i did enjoy the pvp until it became stressful and people who put in huge amounts of time just wipe you out

[finite saffron]

I think they have their niche audiences, but the jank and hardcoreness make them not very appealing to most

[misty arch]

also with Eldenring Nightreign coming, that might hit that niche

[finite saffron]

I guess if I had to pick one that's out now it'd probably be hunt showdown, it's the most well-built out of any of them

I'm not a huge fan of it but I think it's the best

[peak marsh]

I mean, they already have the extraction/RPG crossover audience, right now they're trying to appeal to the co-op RPG/action audience, and I feel like that's going to be a difficult bridge to cross. Especially if they do it half-heartedly just to bring in more audience

[misty arch]

which from the interview of the game director, they arent

[peak marsh]

For their sake I hope not xD Though my hackles are up about it

[misty arch]

he was fully aware of what hes leading, even was completely shocked at how far they would allow him to go with his idea for a game

its Fromsoftware, you dont screw that up

[peak marsh]

I mean again, it feels like a misstep at this point in the game to deviate from what they've already established a firm foundation for

A firm foundation isn't a finished, ready to live in house. Like, they still have work to do to make what's already popular something sustaining

And now they're already planning the additions to that house

Maybe it comes together and works out great. I hope so. But my hackles are up xD

[finite saffron]

to be fair their game had a falloff from 50k+ to only 1-2k, maybe they needed a hail mary

[misty arch]

lol, looking at extractions and found this one
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3126410/Expedition_Into_Darkness/

Steam

Expedition: Into Darkness

Your journey begins on foreboding grounds above ancient, mysterious ruins. Driven by an insatiable thirst for glory, power, and untold riches, you will face challenges and uncover dark secrets as you pursue your damned ambitions.

Form a party with up to four other friends, or brave the darkness alone.

…

Release Date

To be announced

▶ Play video

[finite saffron]

Wouldn't surprise me if the PVP didn't have enough of a widespread appeal, Dark and Darker was suuuper hardcore and unforgiving

[peak marsh]

That's more or less the street I'm driving to. The core game needs a lot more refining to grab sustaining appeal

Like, if Enshrouded wasn't selling, the answer wouldn't be to just tack on a PVP mode

but it's highly requested

[misty arch]

different game loops and styles. Talking extraction vs open world rpg with survival and building mechanics.

development wise, it would be easier to slap pve in an extaraction than slapping pvp into enshrouded, and yes i know most pvp is just a toggle if programmed in ahead of time

[peak marsh]

I'm just saying. It's a gambit at best and a reach at worst to just tack on something the game was never initally meant to be

[misty arch]

oh i agree, this is absolutely a hail mary by them. one extraction has already shut down just a month or 2 ago, and im sure dark and darker is on the bubble

[peak marsh]

You aren't appealing to your core audience and you're going to need to do a lot to reach the audience outside of that, because it's already been established what your game is

Like, not saying they can't, heck maybe they're better at doing PVE co-op games, but they're going to need to do a lot, and I mean a lot a lot to bring in people who bounced off the game the first time

Otherwise, people who already played the game are going to come back, try it for a week, and go back to whatever they were doing beforehand xD

And the week is me being very generous xD

With the outcome being "we got an additional 3,500 concurrent players on Steam" as their only reward

For a week

Ultimately, Dark & Darker feels like a game and idea that needs more support. Honestly I would be more interested if they were brought in by a larger publisher. They really seem like a studio that would benefit from someone like say Coffee Stain taking them in and giving them support and guidence

Even though I'm a big proponent of studios being independent for the most part

Like, to be frank if every studio was suited to be self-published, publishers wouldn't exist xD

[tranquil cove]

wow why are you always accusing me of stuff

😆

I bought the DLCs for space engineers, because they come with aesthetic building materials, and and they were also very cheap, and supported the development of space engineers 2.

But typically I won't buy a cosmetic DLC if there is more than 1 of them, and if they are over 4.99$ and never go on sale.

cosmetics in games i completely ignore. i prefer to earn them through in game methods of getting them. if none exist in that game, it's also more than likely a game i wont even play.

i think warframe is the only game i made 1 purchase in, because it gave me 1000 hours of gaming, and i could earn everything for free. so when they had a sale i was willing to buy something.

[tranquil cove]

is this similar to expedition: vikings?

expedition: vikings is an amazing game imo, but i never finished it, and it was semi difficult.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/445190/Expeditions_Viking/

Steam

Expeditions: Viking

Get ready for an adventure in history! Logic Artists, the makers of Expeditions: Conquistador, are pleased to bring you Expeditions: Viking.

Prepare for a grand adventure

As the newly appointed chieftain of a modest Viking clan, you’ll have a village of your very own. But to carve your name into the runestones of history you’ll need gre…

Price

$7.49

Recommendations

3083

Metacritic

74

▶ Play video

[frank sonnet]

signed up for the rouge core playtest

[misty arch]

not sure, unfamiliar with that one

[misty arch]

ok, after watching the trailer, no, they arent even close. Expedition is more FP dungeon crawl, with a little more emphasis on the monsters, and a co-op game with ironman rules

[vague galleon]

WAIT! TITANFALL 3?!
WHAAAAAAAAAAAT
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[misty arch]

still leaks but basically confirmed its coming

[vague galleon]

ITS ABOUT DING DANG TIME

i was soooo bad at titanfall but man the story was so good!

I NEED A CO-OP STORYMODE

[tepid wadi]

I need to go back and play TF2, it's been too long

[peak marsh]

For better or worse, it's exactly the same as you remember it xD

[vague galleon]

same.

I played multiplayer until i hit 50 and reset, and then that combined with feeling like I was getting worst at the game I kind of fell off it, but man it was fun.

[tranquil cove]

team fortress 2

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZCZ_rg82ps

[austere spear]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1374490/RuneScape_Dragonwilds/

Steam

RuneScape: Dragonwilds

Locate them, throw down the gauntlet and carve your path to the Dragon Queen herself.

Your progress will be under constant threat from the looming shadow of the Dragons, as you level up, arm yourself and prepare to rise to face them. Follow the trail of destruction and uncover the mysteries of the continent to learn not just how to confront th…

Release Date

Coming soon

▶ Play video

[vague galleon]

looks okay, I would like to try it.

[misty arch]

in 15 min
https://www.youtube.com/live/t3ZO8tbmCvc?si=gdTC-ZMll-Smtj1K

[misty arch]

coming Sept 23rd

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/uZRGDZCl9pg?si=KGer5QuqyYmaGdLY

[peak marsh]

It's an independent Bungie project? That's interesting

[peak marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwTBWwQd_IA

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/mnjQtP19cSo?si=kQ97ea289X-j2Umi

if you are interested in it, Eve Frontier is running a trial until the 21st
https://evefrontier.com/en/trial

[vague galleon]

is this just another battle royal?

[peak marsh]

Looks like more of an extraction shooter

[vague galleon]

is that a genre?

[misty arch]

new extraction shooter from Bungey

[peak marsh]

Yeah. Basically matches of PvPvE where the goal is to collect materials and extract back out of the map with them so you can use them to progress

[vague galleon]

hmm, what other games do that?

[misty arch]

atm, none i think other than the medieval ones

[vague galleon]

also seems like a poor way to use ye olde marathon name.

[misty arch]

no shooters do it. the ones that did shut down

[peak marsh]

Quite a few games have that setup, Steam has a whole subgenre for it: https://store.steampowered.com/tags/de/Extraction-Shooter/

[vague galleon]

im reminded of Special Forces Team X, fun game that died out too fast.

[peak marsh]

A lot of the genre is dominated by RPGs at the moment

[misty arch]

and BG3 patch 8 is coming 🙂

[peak marsh]

But it's all the same setup, you have a large open map where you're running around fighting monsters and gathering materials/treasures, and you'll encounter other players as you go and you're trying to get the materials and survive back to the extraction point

[vague galleon]

sounds stressful.

[peak marsh]

Yeah, it's not my personal cup of tea. Definitely high pressure but I could see enjoying the rush of making it back with some sweet new upgrades

Personally I just find it frustrating that you can be doing well and get ganked by a player from behind while dealing with monsters. Plus some have a time limit where as you get towards the end of the match, the map starts shrinking which not only kills you if you're outside of a border, but starts cutting off exits and forcing everyone into a smaller area

Meaning said ganking chances only keep going up

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, extraction shooters are starting to get pretty crowded as a genre. I like them but only once in a while.

I'd love a more... regular multiplayer game with interesting match dynamics

[misty arch]

this gives a good explanation of what to expect in Marathon
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/fps/after-thousands-of-hours-in-destiny-i-had-serious-concerns-about-bungies-marathon-reboot-but-now-ive-played-it-my-worry-isnt-whether-or-not-it-will-be-good/

[tranquil cove]

i dislike the whole concept of extraction shooters

never found one i even remotely enjoy

same with rogue lites either, name the best rogue lites, and i'm probably going to say they suck for me

except for dungeons of dredmore

same with battle royale games

[vague galleon]

I do like Risk of Rain 2

theres a lot of FPS rogue lites which I'd love if they were just normal level based shooters like the old day.

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/LU_RbrlL_Go?si=bAaMa4_JlHEfKah7

[peak marsh]

Huh. I didn't realize Marathon is one of Bungie's pre-Halo legacy IPs

The OG marathon was a trilogy of 90s FPS games, considered on the better end of good back in the day

Available free on Steam at that

[tranquil cove]

y'all linking games in here like you buy every game you see

meanwhile i buy 1 game a year

lol

[vague galleon]

i tried the first one. doesnt hold up like doom does.

[peak marsh]

It's less about that, more about just keeping up with whats coming out

If I'm interested enough sure, I'll buy it, but a lot I just keep tabs on

Like, wanting to learn about a game doesn't automatically mean I'm making a purchase

[tranquil cove]

i buy 50% of the games zerax links

[peak marsh]

Well on the positive gaming news end, seems like the current US administration is backing down on some of the tariffs, specifically those that relate to semiconductors, cell phones, and electronics. So assuming that stays true, big win for upcoming hardware releases (Switch 2, new AMD GPU about to launch, PC handhelds, phones, laptops, etc)

[peak marsh]

Speaking of Switch 2, I've noticed 2 interesting/amusing things happening right now in general sentiment. The first, it seems like people are coming to terms with the console price (game prices are an entirely different subject lol). Like, I think most people had $349 - $399 in their heads so now that people are contextualizing it more, given the hardware upgrades etc I think generally the price of the console isn't as bad as people initially thought

The second, and one I keep hearing, is that the tech upgrades and performance has been described by multiple people I follow as not very "Nintendo-like", meaning that Nintendo has typically focused less on performance and more on affordability and a unique experience. Though, every generation since I'd say Nintendo 64, Nintendo has been ripped for being underpowered and behind the times in terms of tech

That just makes me think that they were basically in a zero-win position. If they had made it less powerful and more affordable, people would just be ripping the tech and saying "this should have just been a Switch Pro". Meanwhile, however, they've made a console that is probably more powerful than Steam Deck and on par with the current generation (which still puts it behind once next gen starts rolling) and instead they get ripped for price

Like, people would have complained either way xD

For context, I follow gaming handhelds pretty closely, I like the miniaturization of tech and I follow a lot of people who cover new releases regularly and have thoughts both about the space and about the Switch 2 compared to other options on the market in particular

[peak marsh]

And I mean, that's why I specifically mention the console, because I'm not necessarily defending the game prices, I'm not happy about those either, but I think a lot of the outrage is actually about the game prices but it's spilling over to what people are saying about the hardware just because they're mad and want more reasons to hate Nintendo, like the fact that the screen is LED and not OLED. Like, especially for a handheld a high quality LED is still pretty great, it's just not going to have as much contrast on things like pure blacks etc, which frankly most people probably won't notice unless you've been playing specifically on a handheld OLED and make that transition

[timber prism]

Do they have the comparison between their LED screen and the OLED they used on the Switch 1?

I still think at a much higher price point, they should have included it

There isn't any reason why Nintendo couldn't have eaten the cost on that

[peak marsh]

I mean, depending. By all accounts, the Switch 2 costs around $400 to produce, so if you look at it from a certain perspective they're already eating the costs on every console sold. Adding an OLED wouldn't make it much more expensive, but it would make it more expensive, so now they have to choose between OLED and a $500 price point, or keeping the cost down with slightly lesser tech

And again, with a high quality LED which from what people are saying, it does have, a majority of people aren't going to notice the difference anyhow

The real rub to me is software, but with the hardware situation understood, it explains things a bit, they're basically recouping the hardware costs through the software

But also, they aren't doing it in what I'd call consumer friendly ways. Like charging for the "Switch 2 tour" software, charging $70 for BotW which is a game that originally launched on the Wii U, without the DLC included, things like that

[timber prism]

I want to compare them

bc its super noticeable on the Switch vs Switch OLED

resolution on a small screen doesn't matter much

but colors for sure does

[peak marsh]

Well thats the thing, if you're coming directly from Switch OLED it will be noticeable. I just don't think as many people are as there are people who are being mad about it online

[timber prism]

i say this having an OG Switch and an OLED Switch... and multiple OLED screens in my house

[peak marsh]

And resolution won't make a huge difference, but the big jump in refresh rate will

[timber prism]

sure you but you can have refresh rate on both

[peak marsh]

Everything will look and more importantly feel smoother

[timber prism]

im just saying that with a small screen, resolution jumps don't matter as much

but colors are colors

screen size doesn't affect that whatsoever

[peak marsh]

Yeah, but again OLED costs money and Nintendo is basically breaking even on the console sales, so adding an OLED would just push the price up to or possibly beyond $500

[timber prism]

most companies sell at a lose on their console

they could have done this

they chose not to

thats all im saying

[peak marsh]

Though I'll add to that, having the option would be nice. Get the LED base console for $450 or pay $500 for an OLED

[timber prism]

they didnt have to change the price at all

and just ate the cost

you saying they are breaking even means they didn't even care to make that choice like Sony or Microsoft

so now you have a company that is having expensive games and wont even eat the cost of their console

[peak marsh]

Or even the $10 instructional software xD

I mean, you're not wrong and they could have, I'm just saying from a price:hardware standpoint you're still getting a lot for $450 and it's not as disastrous as it's being made out to be, especially when you look at comparable PC or even Android handhelds

Like, not having an OLED isn't going to make it trash because a high quality LED is going to look fine

Maybe not as good as a high quality OLED or AMOLED but still quality

Like even among Android handhelds like the Ayn Odin 2, $500 gets you an OLED screen but it doesn't get you a dock/output option that goes up to 4k and doesn't have detachable joycons with all of the engineering those come with. $450 isn't the terrible price it's being made out to be

[timber prism]

yeah, i want to do a side by side because that is actually absurd to me

they didnt even OLED their screen this time around from the get go

[peak marsh]

I do agree it feels like a step backwards when the rest of the console is making so many leaps forward

I mean, it's powerful enough to directly emulate the console that came before it, that's kinda bananas depending on how much you know about emulation

Going by the general rule of emulation that makes it at least 2.5x more powerful than the Switch

(generally, very broadly speaking the basic rule of emulating anything is the system you're emulating on needs to be at least 2.5x more powerful than the system you're emulating in order to get a smooth experience. Give or take and again very broadly)

But yeah, I do agree they could have eaten more cost either to bring the price down or include an OLED because it would have been smart business. The old "give them the fishing rod so you can sell them the bait" mentality. I'm just saying dollars vs specs what they're selling for $450 is really reasonable

[timber prism]

when you say the console before it.. you mean the WiiU?

[peak marsh]

The Switch

[timber prism]

but that doesn't actually sound impressive at all

PS5 plays PS4 games

Series X plays One games

[peak marsh]

No, the PlayStation 5 does not emulate PlayStation 4 games. Instead, it uses a comparable hardware architecture to achieve backwards compatibility. This allows the PS5 to run the overwhelming majority of PS4 games directly

[timber prism]

okay

[peak marsh]

The emulation part is the bananas part

It's not running Switch natively

[timber prism]

that doesn't impress me at all

lmao

its the same outcome

why couldn't they get it to play them natively? so much change in the architecture?

that they are forced to emulate it instead?

[peak marsh]

I mean, it's nuts and bolts stuff but it allows them to not be tied to previous hardware architecture but it's really hard to do because of how much more power you need to pull it off

And yeah, tying it to previous hardware would basically handcuff how much more powerful they would have been able to make it and how many new features they'd be able to add

Thats why the industry has had such a love/hate relationship with backwards compatability

[timber prism]

gotcha.. but its not stopping PS5?

[peak marsh]

And PS5 isn't a dramatic leap over PS4. That's been a big criticism of it

[timber prism]

interesting

bc that is not the experience i have had

[peak marsh]

It's the pro and con of how much better can we make the new console vs how much PR you get and how much a larger launch library you can have

[timber prism]

going from a ps4 pro to a ps5

[peak marsh]

I mean sure it made a leap, but not a dramatic one like say between PS3 and PS4, or Switch and how Switch 2 is looking to shake out

[timber prism]

i think when people say leap.. they just refer to graphics

i think for the most part the whole industry has plateu'd on that

there are very few games pushing boundaries

[peak marsh]

I mean ultimately that's kind of where we're winding up, and between PC handhelds and Steam I feel like we're reaching a point where there's less and less reason to have a dedicated console specalized to gaming

[timber prism]

i also agree with this

the only thing i actually like consoles now are for having a more consistent base on optimization

bc everyone keeps effing up PC optimizing these days

[peak marsh]

Basically the only thing keeping consoles as a thing are the exclusive software titles and even those are starting to cross over to Steam

[timber prism]

affordability as well

[peak marsh]

That too, the main reason being when you're making a console version you only have to optimize to one set of hardware, whereas on PC you have to optimize for 1,000s

[timber prism]

yeah for sure

like I ended up playing my PS5 Elden Ring vs PC bc the optimization on my system was so bad

and that was with current hardware at the time

i kept having this stuttering that I couldn't fix from loading shaders or something

i dont know exaxctly what it was but it was annoying lmao

they patched it out eventually though

like current day elden ring runs fine

[peak marsh]

Yeah that's the trade off, PC games you often have to wait it out for patches while on consoles it's news if it doesn't work more or less perfectly on day 1

That's part of why MH Wilds caught so much flak

Not just that it was terribly optimized on PC, but that even consoles had issues

[timber prism]

Not sure if anyone recommended this.. but I keep hearing how good this puzzle game is https://store.steampowered.com/app/1569580/Blue_Prince/

Steam

Blue Prince

Welcome to Mt. Holly, the mysterious manor with shifting rooms. In Blue Prince, you embark on a genre-defying experience, filled with a unique mix of mystery, strategy, and puzzles that weave together to create an unpredictable journey. Will your explorative steps lead you to the rumored Room 46?

…

Price

$26.99

Recommendations

1018

Metacritic

93

▶ Play video

Im about to dive in myself.. ilts a roguelike puzzle game or something

[peak marsh]

Affordability-wise, I feel like might not be a thing so much in the near future either. I mean, if you don't want to shell out for a whole PC upgrade we're rapidly reaching a point where you could instead buy a handheld PC for the price of a console that will run current games and will have HD output

[peak marsh]

Yeah, I keep hearing about this one in my various feeds. I guess it's supposed to be really good?

[timber prism]

yah.. either good or hyped haha

one of my discord servers is talking about it a lot but its all in spoilers haha

so they are def having a good time with it

its definitely a write this down in a notepad kind of game

[peak marsh]

For a puzzle game to get as much buzz as it's been it must be doing something special

[tranquil cove]

nice profile banner

i wonder how long it would take to fully complete the blue prince game. the issue with puzzle games sometimes is they can be over too fast. $26 for 26 hours of play? or can you play a longer time?

[peak marsh]

It's a roguelike from what I'm taking away, so basically each time the rooms and puzzles are different

[tranquil cove]

ohhh interesting

but it might feel too generic

there's something more special about hand crafted scenarios, like you get from games like MYST etc.

[timber prism]

im not sure if the rooms themselves are roguelike

but the way you build yourself and the rng of building said rooms to get to the final room is roguelike

[peak marsh]

That's always my concern with proc gen, like once you start noticing patterns in the generation it can start feeling really same-y

[timber prism]

i dont thilnk its proc gen

each room is curated i think???

[tranquil cove]

they made like 10 puzzles per a room, and then just randomized which one you get?

thats not really proc gen then

[peak marsh]

If that's the case then it could be really interesting. Like if they're drawing from a pool of handcrafted rooms and puzzles and it's only different which ones you encounter next

[timber prism]

i think the issue that can happen with that is that you might do a run and get a room that helps solve another room but you never get said room

[peak marsh]

Upon reaching a closed door in Mt. Holly, you decide what room appears behind it and each decision shapes your path as you navigate through the manor. Every door can reveal new and exciting chambers that contain their own unique challenges and secrets. But be careful how you draft, for each day the manor’s floor plan resets and the rooms you saw today may not be the same rooms you see tomorrow.

[timber prism]

and you have "energy" to do the rooms so even if you figure out hte puzzle you can run out of energy for taking too long or whatever to finish the run

[peak marsh]

Okay, so it's basically you make it as far as you can during a day, and the next day everything resets and you try to make it a little further?

[timber prism]

yeah, figuring out said puzzle means the next time you have something similar you can take less steps to finish it i think

so you can proceed further?

[peak marsh]

That's an interesting approach

[timber prism]

but like the thing you posted said.. you might not get the same exact puzzles etc the next "day" aka run

[peak marsh]

I feel like it really suits the genre too because it rewards your puzzle solving by making each attempt require fewer resources because you get better at reaching the solution

[timber prism]

yah

that is what it sounds like at least

the people i know are all taking notes etc for everything they find lmao

so at the very least it sounds very immersive

[peak marsh]

I mean, if that's how it works I get the hype, that's a legit evolution of the "escape the room" genre

[timber prism]

i have some escape room games they are fun

i also do them IRL

[peak marsh]

And it adds to replayability because depending on how you reach the end, you might want to replay just to see the puzzles you may have missed the first run

Or make a more efficent run etc

[untold lynx]

it is really good

[karmic umbra]

i'm so close, i'm waiting for ESO to download atm, suprisingly not played it over these 10 years despite being an avid Skyrim player, the price tag always put me off for an MMO, but now its £3 and £7 a month for all DLC or you can buy the individule packs and not have to pay monthly, great options tbh

What MMO's are you into ATM?

[soft cairn]

im too old for mmo dont have life to grind in game and compete with others 🙂

[karmic umbra]

same here, but i hear ESO have a great Solo experience to take at your own pace

and for £3, i have no reason not to try it

eve if i get a fun few hours and leave it because i realise i dont have the time for it, for £3 it's worth a try

although it is 120GB O_O

so it's gotta be fun to stay on my Device

[soft cairn]

it depends on people didnt get hook to skyrim so i bet ESO was only 1 hour of game in my life and it will stay this way

[karmic umbra]

thats fair enough, with so many games out in todays market compared to when i was a kid, you literally couldnt play them all, when i was a kid you could literally play all the games as their wasn't 100's releasing a week

[finite saffron]

Even back then there were tons of games you simply never saw or heard of because they weren't at your local game store. That is what's nice about modern store fronts, with just a single 100 dollar entry fee literally anyone can put their janky code on Steam lol

or even less if they want to host it on itch.io or something

[finite saffron]

It's pretty good yeah, I found that it kinda suffers from MMO syndrome (feeling really slow and time wastey), but the world is really cool and there's an insane amount of content

[karmic umbra]

for a guy who will probably be able to play 1 or 1hr 30mins a day max maybe less as some days i just dont have time, how long would it be for me to get through just the base story? xD

i'm expecting to never catch up to modern content

[finite saffron]

It's been years since I played so I don't know anymore, but even back then I think it was close to 100 hours

[karmic umbra]

but thats not why i'll be playing it

[finite saffron]

I never finished it though, wasn't really my cup of tea. I also wouldn't consider it a bad game either, though, I just am not super into MMOs

[karmic umbra]

i'm good with paying £3 for the potential of 100hrs of content, i mean i'm also apart of the Soulframe MMO Pre-Alpha atm and thats a bit slow obviously

as they're just getting the foundations of the game layed out

[finite saffron]

Yeah compared to old school MMOs it's basically an arcade game lol

grind means a different thing these days

[karmic umbra]

fair, i was always into Runescape, SWTORO and the like

[finite saffron]

Yeah I grew up playing tibia where you'd grind the same 3 mobs for 20 hours just so you could move on to grinding 3 new mobs in a slightly different area

[soft cairn]

Kazordoon 4 life 😄

i remember first segregation for pacc and facc 😄

[soft cairn]

btw did u hear they made fifth character called monk ?

[finite saffron]

did they really? that's so weird lol

what does it do?

[soft cairn]

MONK stuff so no weapons and i think its some hybrid of all other characters

[finite saffron]

It's crazy to me that tibia is still getting so many updates, it's a game that manages to never die

made me laugh when they added sound

20 years late

[soft cairn]

tibia became pay to play and well it was my early years experience with MMO but now its like OTS in past

[soft cairn]

as long as they make money special nice amount was made during "covid" so they will keep it alive

i think if they made something similar to valheim or enshrouded and put all the stuff they already got like mobs and quests it would be game changer but bet there would be all microtransactions u can put in game 😄

[finite saffron]

Yeah it's a great "I have nothing to do and need to literally set my spare time on fire" kinda game, I think I also briefly went back to it during covid lmao

[peak marsh]

I can't even remember how many years it's been since I last thought about Tibia, let alone played it xD

[finite saffron]

It had its record revenue year just a few years ago, which is... confusing

so it's still doing well somehow

[soft cairn]

only stuff which keep me from playing was PAY to play mechanic cuz otherwise above 100 u can stuck in depo and the ping which was causing me to die constant while living in uk and this was bullshit

[peak marsh]

I guess it's really big in Europe, especially in eastern parts where PCs aren't so up to date

[finite saffron]

Yeah I rarely know anybody here in the states who knows what it is, but it had its hayday in europe and south america for sure

[soft cairn]

u would be suprised how people got amazing rigs and play tibia or other old stuff

well all games got some nice and bad time, counter strike, unreal tournament, starcraft etc in past was like top trend

[peak marsh]

Oh sure. I bet the number of 4090s running RuneScape are staggering xD

[soft cairn]

well i bought once when got new rtx 2080 super assasin creed black flag, after 20 minuts of constant crashes i gave up and refund the game

so not always its good to have overpowered pc

[finite saffron]

Yeah I have a pretty good rig and also find myself mostly playing games that could run on a budget laptop lol

why buy 70 dollar game when 15 dollar indie game do trick

[soft cairn]

i found myself not grinding and competing against other people like to pop in like helldivers 2 make 1 map and then go do something else

[soft cairn]

why pay 15 when u can or better not 😛 🏴‍☠️

[finite saffron]

I wouldn't do that the poor indie/solo devs need all the help they can get

[soft cairn]

i will never forget like Electronic Arts been selling the need for speed after they shut down servers and it was only online game 😄 my friend bought it last month "its not working"

[peak marsh]

That's like that whole thing with Ubisoft and The Crew

[soft cairn]

i mostly done it to check if game is for me, if yea i bought it even like full price but if it was crap then nope

[finite saffron]

I wonder how much more the legal fees for that has cost them than just keeping the servers up for a bit longer

[soft cairn]

best part is u got like 24 hours to get refund from time u play the game first time and even when its not launching the counter go by 1 minut when u try to launch game

[soft cairn]

funny part is how can u sell something that should not work while people did ask for "offline"

[finite saffron]

It's a tough situation though, server hosting for big live service games is VERY expensive, and they are often not built with being hosted by small servers in mind.

Those games reaching their end of their life either means shutting down, or doing a complete infrastructure overhaul just for the few people left who still want to play it.

[peak marsh]

Or just making a patch for an offline mode

I mean, the game contains all the elements it needs to just be single player

[finite saffron]

Nah that's what I meant by infrastructure overhaul, live service games aren't built to function locally for security reasons, so to make them function that way requires overhauling a lot of your base infrastructure code

Could be argued that more games should be developed with that kind of thing in mind, but currently they aren't

[peak marsh]

Fair enough. Could just release some kind of server emulator software then

[finite saffron]

Games shutting down inherently means you probably aren't making money off them, so most big studios don't plan for it

[peak marsh]

Let people host their own

I do find it amusing though that Ubi shot themselves in the foot, they're calling up the legal notice stating that you only have a license to run the game, and the plaintiffs pointed right back at the part that says the license is good until 2099 xD

[finite saffron]

oops lol

[tranquil cove]

https://www.polygon.com/gaming/555469/ubisoft-holds-firm-in-the-crew-lawsuit-you-dont-own-your-video-games?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

[finite saffron]

Yeah I'm glad that lawsuit is happening, mostly because it might hopefully result in more clarity going forward. It's such a legal grey zone and there's basically zero regulation or good practice in the industry for that subject. Most studios just choose to not think about it and hope it never comes back to bite them down the line.

Enshrouded isn't centrally hosted (other than on Steam) so thankfully we don't have to think about it lol

[tranquil cove]

i gotta say i agree with ubisoft here. though in an ideal world a game would never shut down, and therefore companies would maybe devote more care to developing that game. i think running a game for 10 years is sort of good enough, it's a long time. it's more time than is reasonable for someone to complete a game and get the full experience for what they paid.

in other words the lawsuit shouldnt decide for all cases that a game isn't owned by people who buy it, rather the case should stipulate if you run the game for 7-10 years, you can shut it down beyond that point.. so you are guaranteed a decade of play time or whatever.

[finite saffron]

Yeah I will say as someone who has been part of a dev team in that exact same situation (a live service, centrally hosted game that was not profitable enough to keep online), it's more complicated than simply "letting" the players do anything. For us our game was built around a centralized server infrastructure called Playfab, and to detach the game from that in order to give it to the players and let them host things themselves would have required a complete overhaul of a lot of our core systems. Given how much work that would be it wasn't realistic for a studio that was already in the red to work on something that wouldn't even make us any money for that long.

I'm sure many other live service games are in the same boat, when you build a game with security in mind that inherently makes it impossible to run locally most of the time.

[tranquil cove]

there's that too, ubisoft didnt just shutdown crew and go away to other titles, they made crew 2, it's debatable weather crew 2 is as good, but they basically made a replacement, that is also based on the same internal workings, so if they released crew 1 to public it might compromise crew 2 in some way.

[peak marsh]

I think the issue is less letting players have unlimited unfettered access, more about clear conveyance of what you're purchasing. Considering with The Crew specifically that it had single player elements like AI racers etc, it's entirely believable that someone might think they were buying something longer lasting. There's also the issue of overreach, Ubi basically deleted the game from people's computers, so when does the license give the company access to the data on your HD?

[finite saffron]

Yeah the crew is a particularly egregious case because realistically most players were playing it like a pseudo singleplayer game

Especially given that ubisoft did huge 95% of sales right before shutting it down... kinda shady

I think box price games make things way more complicated, the game I worked on was f2p

[tranquil cove]

what they should have done is given crew 2 for free to anyone who had crew 1.

and then none of these lawsuits would matter

100% they'd win all lawsuits if they did that

[peak marsh]

And literally removed the game from people's libraries, uninstalling it. They in a very literal sense removed the data on people's local physical machines

[tranquil cove]

because the argument could have been that the service continued on crew 2.

[finite saffron]

but then those players wouldn't be buying the crew 2

[tranquil cove]

yep lol

[soft cairn]

yea this is cuz BIG tech companies forget there was france at some point and some heads roll down

these days all this CEO think u can spit in someone face and they do nothing... to some point u will get another Mario

[timber prism]

Nice! I put a hour or two into over the weekend! I liked it!

[peak marsh]

Lived up to the hype?

[timber prism]

Only time will tell because I haven't finished a run but I'm enjoying what I played so far

[timber prism]

https://youtu.be/kEIHXp_F4VE?si=ILguY1B2_IjkTgco

[soft cairn]

nice root there 😄 with many handshakes 😄

[soft cairn]

for anyone interested Metro 2033 Redux free on STEAM or GOG

[raven hound]

"Brothers ... The xenos scum have been spotted ready the Bolters"

[soft cairn]

we still got virgins for sacrifice to dragon nice 😄

[raven hound]

Lol ironic considering I'm also a furry dragon

[soft cairn]

i know dogs got fur and hair what about dragons ? are there ones with hairs ? 😄

[raven hound]

Depends on the species, region of origin and personal preference

[soft cairn]

oh ok

[raven hound]

We should move this to off topic lol

[soft cairn]

no worries not planing to continue the topic xD

[raven hound]

Fair enough have a good day

[hollow barn]

Let them feast!

[karmic umbra]

@finite saffron update on trying ESOnline, honestly the combat feels so crappy and everything is so easy to do, I feel no reward for playing it (wife fell asleep with the kids in the other room so I got a solid 3 hours to play it & I think I was bored the entire time)

I think guild wars 2 might be more what I'm looking for

[peak marsh]

ESO really shines in the storyline and the group content

Fully voice acted with some pretty big names. I mean, John Cleese from Monty Python is in it, among others

But yeah, the combat is dated and wasn't the best in the genre even when it first launched

And it's very much a theme park so outside of the group content and some of the over world dungeons, it's pretty breezy in terms of difficulty

[finite saffron]

Yep I had the same issue, felt very basic

[soft cairn]

@finite saffron what did u make with wall mount torches why there is stack of 1000 ? 😄

[finite saffron]

Was that in a video or something?

[soft cairn]

well i done by accident today 100

in one stack

and then made up to 1000 before running out of resources

[finite saffron]

oof lol

yeah our stack sizes are all over the place honestly