like the very first one or two mons in world were like that
#other-games
tepid wadi
Have you done the rey dau?
tepid wadi
He's the first one that seemed like a real threat to me
peak marsh
Seems to be a YMMV situation. Some people are having issues with the optimization but a lot of people aren't. Personally it's been like butter so far
finite saffron
It was pretty bad when I ran the benchmark, the game just refused to use my components
Nothing was even close to maxed out but the game refused to go above 40-60fps, was the weirdest benchmark I've ever used lol
timber prism
the benchmark isn't even a good test because it inflates score to your actual performance in game
whatever your lowest fps was during the test is what you would normally get running around
like the bench mark.. at some points i was in the 70 fps.. but im not even cracking over 60 in the actual game running around
tepid wadi
I've had zero performance issues so far, I think I had one frame hitch at the end of a cutscene but that's it
hollow barn
I've had zero performance issues so far, I think I had one frame hitch at the en...
Only had graphic glitches in the Forest so far
timber prism
I heard the third area is comically unoptimized.. bunch of streamers have been slideshowing getting into it
hollow barn
The forest seems rough loading in
Only had it in the Congala area otherwise it's fine
tepid wadi
We've definitely been in a "visual capabilities are beyond most machine's performance capabilities" for like... a couple years now.
peak marsh
One thing the Monster Hunter series has always been great at is giving you those moments where you feel like a complete badass
At least until 6.5 seconds later when they go leaping at the monster again and get tail slapped to the ground xD
(that part never makes it in those videos xD)
vague galleon
this is why I really wanted to like dragon's dogma and PSO2. climbing boss and more indepth combat is so cool. but man, I HATE dragon's dogma.
tepid wadi
It feels super janky for sure. I had trouble with DD2 because it just didn't FEEL good to play, everything felt super clunky.
For all the complaints about this monster hunter being way easier than previous ones, it's super fun to play.
peak marsh
Yeah, it really is a blast. Plus I feel like the relative lack of difficulty is a temporary condition. It wouldn't surprise me if they kept launch a little more laid back and focused on the fun aspects for new players, then later we'll see monsters and events added that will ramp it up
Especially with all the people griping about it. But maybe that's also a ploy to bring those people back when the new, harder events start happening
Plus you have the added benefit of easing those new players into that harder difficulty
I will say the fighting and weapons feel more fluid than ever. It really feels like theres less resistance to making your attacks do what you want them to do
Like with GS for instance, now while you're holding a charge you can 'lean' and 'curve' way more than previously, plus you can lock on and spin 360 degrees if needed
On one hand, that's also easier, you aren't punished as much for starting a bad charge, but on the other, you don't need 5,000 hours of greatsword under your belt before you feel like you're finally doing meaningful damage
tepid wadi
I'm almost to high rank I think and the difficulty is definitely starting to ramp up. The people sayign "oh I could do the whole game without upgrading weapons or armor" are wayyyyyyy exaggerating.
peak marsh
My guess is it's people who played until the credits, without realizing the credits are when high rank starts
tepid wadi
Probably yeah
timber prism
have you actually been upgrading armor???
or just making new gear?
figthing def feels more fluid.. i dont know if i necessarily like the change because things feel less weighted now
i have just been forging new stuff just on the random mats i get from beating story stuff and it seems like thats all thats needed... zero upgrading armor
For the recent games.. I think I like World > Wilds > Rise... this is all pre expansion
Rey Dau was even easier now vs the beta due to gear
peak marsh
My ranking probably goes Wilds > World > Rise. Though I had fun with Rise too
timber prism
I like how weighted everything in World is
peak marsh
Simply for the fluid feeling of the weapons and the feeling of an open world
Yeah, I agree that GS doesn't feel as hefty in this, but it does feel more fluid and still feels satisfying. Some of the new combos are great
timber prism
one thing about Wilds is how easy it is to use focus hit to adjust where you are attacking mid combo
as a HH main who went Hammer this time around for Wilds.. it just doesn't feel weighted enough
it almost feels too fast
peak marsh
I'd agree with that a bit too. Like draw slash on GS feels a lot faster than it did even in Rise, which people rave on about for how fast the combat was in that
timber prism
i dunno what it is about wilds.. but the cut scenes make the monsters look so badass
like the spider lmao.. but then when you fight it
its a complete pushover XD
like.. how did that one person get caught so fast? XD
peak marsh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwsNxrSnQ1Q Is how I felt fighting the spider
Like it feels like 3 swings and it's already running off
timber prism
i had rey dau on the ground for like 70% of this fight
just kept bashing its face in with a hammer
LR armor appearance is OP in this game.. i feel like a princess lmao
peak marsh
The tiara really ties it together
hollow barn
this is why I really wanted to like dragon's dogma and PSO2. climbing boss and m...
DD2 by now does feel like a good game honestly
hidden creek
DD2 by now does feel like a good game honestly
I wouldnt be that positive , it is not a bad game ( DD2 ), but it has too many flaws to be good, especially when it clearly feels like a downgrade of Dark arisen on most aspects aside from visuals , Map size , and quest amount ( quests depths is lower in my opinion , dd1 quests were much easier to miss timing wise )
glossy ore
🔥STEAM games sale !!! I love this game! Скидка на игру - пушка)) https://store.steampowered.com/app/2294660/The_Quinfall/
peak marsh
Eh, at least it didn't wind up being an actual scam. Just a way below standard MMO
glossy ore
This is the best game I've ever played! I've already played it for 600 hours!
peak marsh
Looks like they're getting ready to drop it and move to the next "project" though if they're pricing it at $1.99
glossy ore
Yes they had problems but for early access such problems are acceptable.
peak marsh
$1.99 is cheap enough to get morbid curiousity and for the lulz purchases. Wouldn't be surprised to hear about it shutting down in the next 3 months
glossy ore
You can also build cool buildings in this game!
peak marsh
Glad it's working out for you 👍
peak marsh
Speaking of morbid curiosity
Yep. Average high was 1.5k players towards the end of last week. I'd guess it's that one last push to inject more players into the servers to hopefully keep it alive for a few more months. If it's still operating by June color me shocked
For comparisons sake, a healthy legacy MMO looks like this:
And a healthy newer indie MMO is like this:
Decidedly less of a downward trend, and there's clear distinction between dead hours and peak hours. Those small bumps in the first one are a bad sign vs the jagged peaks of the other two
I don't generally put a whole lot of stock in Steam Charts, but for live services it's a pretty good barometer
tepid wadi
Yeah, who knows. It's really going to depend on if they can take the framework they put together and do something creative with it.
peak marsh
Fair, but afaik they still have just one developer working on it, so I'm really not holding my breath that it'll happen before server costs take it down
I mean MMOs are a really rough genre for indies to begin with, let alone one with as troubled a backstory and launch as that one
And with a company that doesn't really seem to be investing all that much into it
Again, to draw comparisons, Pantheon has 25 developers which is still tiny for an MMO, and they're doing something far less ambitious
But I'm also probably a bit biased, I've been watching this whole saga unfold through TheLazyPeon and Kira so my hackles are up about Quinfall
Hopefully it works out and some people get the game they've been looking for 🤷♂️
tepid wadi
Yeah, Pantheon is doing a very specific thing trying to remake EQ conceptually. I think the thing about Quinfall is that it's just trying to be everything. Which would be great for a team of hundreds/thousands of people, but tackling that as a small company is rough.
I found Kira to be super negative, so I stopped following him. Peon seems to try and give things a fair shake though
peak marsh
He actually did an interview with the people running it and asked them some really good questions about the game and some of the things people have been calling out about it
Peon I mean
Yeah, I agree Kira can be negative so I take him with a grain or two of salt, but he does go in depth on things when he picks a topic
Which I appreciate, since he's usually pretty comprehensive I can look into some of the things he brings up myself and make my own judgements
peak marsh
Side note, just a quick follow up on that 8bitdo controller after a couple weeks with it, feels and works great as is, feels awesome with Monster Hunter. Really nice to have a rechargable controller with a dock, very pick up and play
peak marsh
Alright, having now seen my 4th or 5th video talking about how much of a terrible, unoptimized mess Wilds is, I've come to two conclusions: 1) My PC must be more up to date than I thought because outside of a few small hiccups, fights and the overall experience has felt fine (admittedly on medium settings but with no frame gen)
And 2) I'm so tired of YT videos with titles that either ask an open ended question ("Is pizza dead?" "Does pizza have a problem?") or that make a 'controversial' assumption ("What people NEED to admit about pizza" "Pizza has a MASSIVE problem")
One I saw but didn't click on was "Capcom BENDS under player pressure, FORCED to come up with a solution", like they weren't going to optimize the game before "OUTRAGED" players "FORCED" them to address it
tepid wadi
Yeah, gamers be whiney about things, no new news there. I'm sure optimization is on their list of things to work on, it's not like the game is unplayable.;
peak marsh
I guess it's a little rough for those with older rigs, but I mean, of course the game is rough on launch and of course they're going to optimize it as time goes on, as early as possible
Especially with the numbers Wilds is doing on launch, they're going to want to smooth it out ASAP
tepid wadi
Yeah, I'm guessing they did as much as possible before the launch. But some people play on computers that are 10+ years old
And there's no way such computers will hold up on new games
Maybe that's why we see so many indie games doing well. You could play balato on a toaster 😝
peak marsh
Yeah, I've seen emulation handhelds that run it (albeit illegally)
Mostly because they're made by Chinese companies and China cares not for your puny intellectual property
Though it's unfortunate because some of those companies are making really good handhelds but things like that make me not want to support them
Though I also suspect that so many indie games are doing well because, well, AAA xD
tepid wadi
Well, good AAA games are still doing well, but like almost every AAA game for the past two years (good or not) has had significant performance problems.
Like Jedi Survivor was super well received, but still had big issues with performance
peak marsh
True. I was more thinking in terms of people being fed up with lootboxes/MTs/various AAA issues and going to indies because it's just less annoying (and expensive). At least that's mostly why I do
Though I'll also admit there's something nice about the simplicity of a lightweight game that loads quickly, doesn't require a whole lot of investment, and just gets you into a simple, straightforward experience
It's why I still play games like Dead Cells and Sundered
Perfect for just kicking back for an hour after work but before bed
Sundered is one of those smaller games I can't praise enough. Metroidvania with beautiful hand-drawn art, great combat, a choice system that gives it some replayability, and it's usually $5 or less on sale
Also taps into a little bit of sci-fi eldritch themes
Lists for $19.99 but it goes on 70-90% off like every other week
timber prism
Alright, having now seen my 4th or 5th video talking about how much of a terribl...
Im actually not having crash issues.. and once I turned off my FPS counter.. I feel fine XD
Im HR 28 atm... and the game still hasn't get hard at all.. and haven't used a single sphere to upgrade any armor set XD
but im done looking like a princess
peak marsh
That's where I wonder if a lot of this 'outrage' I'm seeing on YT and in Steam reviews is people staring at their numbers instead of just playing the game
timber prism
i think so
it could also be that... MHWorld runs at like 100+ fps
vs this.. which im only getting 60... but it still feels comfy
peak marsh
Yeah but World also came out 7 years ago xD
timber prism
i haven't had a time where i was like.. man.. i wish i had better FPS to not get hit
im also running a 7800x3D with a 3080
so there is that.... im sure older rigs are probably struggle bussing
peak marsh
Yeah, that's kinda my point. My PC is current but nowhere near the bleeding edge of tech and it's felt perfectly smooth when it's mattered. Only real hiccups were during some cutscenes while things were still loading in
timber prism
I have had a 9800x3D since... December... but i have been too lazy to put it in XD
peak marsh
Like running from one biome to another I don't feel any load spikes or anything
And that's running in 1080 with no frame gen
timber prism
im just joining SOS flares so im not running into any of zone change issues
peak marsh
Like, I'm not having to go down to low settings with framgen in 720 upscaled just to get smooth gameplay or anything
peak marsh
My Steam review: "Because of this game, I now eat all my meals with nothing but a steak knife. Cereal is especially tough, but a hunter never walks away from a challenge"
hollow barn
Meanwhile, on YouTube:
peak marsh
Like, I'm playing on 1080p medium settings and having a fine time. I think people are just cranking everything to ultra 4k and staring at their numbers
Like, I saw one video where you couldn't even see the left side of the screen because someone had an overlay with all their FPS and CPU/GPU usage literally covering the entire left half
hollow barn
People just love to whine about fps
peak marsh
I mean, 1m players on Steam alone, not even counting PS/The Boxes doesn't strike me as a "nuclear boycott"
hollow barn
Seems more like the silent majority doesn't care much about the fps
peak marsh
It's almost like most people are just playing the game and not obsessing about their numbers
hollow barn
Yep
peak marsh
It's times like these when you really get to see how silly and obvious the YT rage bait algorithm chase is
The obvious hope being that people who are upset will watch the video, and people who aren't and want to defend the game will comment on it
Then we wonder why people are so polarized all the time xD
vague galleon
ive been playing enshrouded on 20-40 FPS on performance mode. lol
started trying out project zombid. took me almost no time to dive into mods. XD
timber prism
we be charmin
i kind of miss the old decos where you could actually make builds
separating offense and defense when you can only get like 3 deco's on a weapon is kinda poopy
tepid wadi
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of it, but weapons also have inherent skills which is kind of good.
It does feel pretty limiting, but having 2 weapons available means you can have more options too. I have 2 different DBs equipped atm and its cool being able to swap between poison and paralyze
peak marsh
I'll have to experiment a bit before I make any judgements as far as better or worse. I do wonder though if it's an effort to curb some of the more OP builds people were making in World
Though, TBF a big part of the fun and reward of the deco system and the grind therein is making yourself stupidly OP
But maybe stupidly OP is still possible 🤷♂️
One thing I kinda don't like is some of the automation they've added to it. Like, I turned off that focus camera because I found it more frustrating than helpful, and I still find it locks my view at times
And just a bit ago I had it automatically use a lucky voucher on a story quest even though I didn't select it and frankly was saving them for when I find something I want to grind
Also on that same story quest it had someone join me without me firing an SOS flare. In fact I've been intentionally going solo so I can learn the new monsters
Though it was just Odogaron and I've spanked that puppy so many times I could do it in my sleep xD
tepid wadi
Well, decos also are a bit different, it seems like level 2 decos are 2 levels of whatever skill, so its less about building gear with the right socket sizes
peak marsh
That I'm fairly happy about. Matching up your gems with your slots was a hassle in World
tepid wadi
Yeah, so it may not be so bad. With 3 level 3 slots in your weapons, thats probably a lot of offensive capability
timber prism
i just rather be able to do full offensive on all my armor
vs having to use defensive decos that I dont need whatsoever
i liked the ability to do attack + crit
right now say i want to use a paralysis hammer that has 1k attack on it... it can only have 2 lvl 2 and 1 lvl 1 deco on it so I can only have 5 attack boost on it.. nevermind even adding any sort of crit on to it
sweet patrol
How are yall liking wilds so far???
tepid wadi
It's definitely enjoyable. There are some things that feel like they're a bit less crunchy than previous games, but the game is still super enjoyable to just play.
Like Ticonz said, you don't have as much control over your build because of how they changed decorations, but it doesn't cheapen the game in a way that makes the combat less fun or anything.
peak marsh
It's pretty great, as long as you go in with the understanding that it's a framework and as is leans to the easy side. Also optimization isn't perfect. I've had a pretty good experience aside from a couple crashes today, but depending on how recent your hardware is YMMV
All that said feel-wise it's the best MH to date IMO. Everything feels fluid and reasonably fast and they've added a lot of quality of life
Though, I do miss having farms to generate materials. Who knew tranq bombs were going to be hard to get xD
timber prism
I miss World builds and the weighted combat but I am enjoying Wilds environment the most out of the three latest games. The mons are pretty fun but I dont really feel there was much difference between low rank, high rank, and tempered/frenzied monsters. There are some nice QOL stuff that I do enjoy like autopathing waypoints to traverse the zones to gather mats because like Rhoisaad mentioned.. there isn't really an easy base farm for mats aside from gaining some mats you can choose from each zone after you complete the optional quests. World had my favorite botany farm.
peak marsh
And I mean really that's all I'm asking for. I don't need it like it was in old games where you had farm plots/mining outcrops/fishing spots/beehives/etc
But at least being able to generate items for things like demondrug/armorskin/clenser/tranq bombs and so on
Looking at the map sleep herbs are pretty sparse so as a result I haven't captured a single monster yet (but also I haven't been fiending for any rare drops either)
Like, I get they want us roaming the map and interacting with the environment, getting into random hunts, and generally being more mobile, but it feels like it will create unnecessary grind where it doesn't need to be when you need to replenish certain things
Feels weird to say because I've said a couple times I want more of that hunting aspect, but it feels like it's in stark contrast to all of the other QOL and streamlining they've introduced. Like it's a step backward
Though I'll also admit it's a small gripe
timber prism
at the very least you can make the people gather sleep herbs and parashrooms etc.
it just isn't nearly as fast as a return as using fertilizer etc
just hit HR 45!
tepid wadi
Some of the palico armor is totally unhinged
vague galleon
catopus
peak marsh
One thing struck me on my way to work: is Wilds the first game without a "siege boss"? You know, the massive Godzilla you have to shoot cannons at etc?
hollow barn
No 10min waiting for Zorah to walk 
timber prism
One thing struck me on my way to work: is Wilds the first game without a "siege ...
I can't remember if GU had siege or not. But I'm glad its gone now XD
Do attack 3 gems exist?
I have yet to drop one x.x
peak marsh
No 10min waiting for Zorah to walk <a:fell_hyper:1217240409256759450>
Or having to stand there for 15 minutes while Jhen Moran sslllooowwlllyy gets closer xD
Or the worst one, that like base/tower defense thing where you had to fight off a bunch of invading monsters
But you're not really fighting because eventually they just disappear into the ether leaving behind only the fresh scent of pine
hollow barn
Or having to stand there for 15 minutes while Jhen Moran sslllooowwlllyy gets cl...
I only know Zorah 1 and 2 and god that was annoying
peak marsh
They've tried a few gimmicky endgame things like that, and they've never not been annoying lol
Like, I came to fight monsters not play base defense
That's the main issue I've always had with them, it's so different from the feel and flow of the rest of the game, I'd rather have it like Wilds where you just fight one significantly larger monster without all the gimmicky mechanics and added objectives
tepid wadi
Yeah, the prop boss fights have never really been great
peak marsh
Someone I follow on YT made a very valid point: when my pouch is full, why do I have to get a dialog popup, back out to see my inventory, then back out again just to send it to my item box? Just send it to the freakin box >.<
"Item pouch full: item sent to item box" would do just fine
Completely unnecessary -.-
Or at least like a "remember my selection" option
peak marsh
(for reference because I just googled it to be sure, at the end of the hunt items in the field pouch automatically go to your item box. So it's the same result)
tepid wadi
I never have that because I just reset my pouch to the loadout every time I go to a spot, but yeah I could see that getting super annoying.
I'm guessing you're talking about Force? He griped about it a lot
peak marsh
Yeah, I think it was Force. Whenever I say "someone on YT I follow" it's because I forget exactly who it was, but also it usually means Force xD
I mean it doesn't matter much later in the game when you basically have all your fundamentals and you're cherry picking certain materials, but at times like say early in the start or early in HR, it's really obnoxious because you're trying to gather as much of everything as you can. Even in other times when you're just out on a shopping trip to restock
vague galleon
im starting to get the hang of project zomboid, im not sure if i just have low skill or if im just bad with guns.
peak marsh
Is that game as hard as I hear?
vague galleon
i will say yes.
im turning the settings to my favor as much as possible and zombies can still overwhelm me.
its definitely not a zombie killing game.
ish.
i did at least manage to not die last night as i ran around looting for two hours.
peak marsh
Seeing videos of it, it seems fun but it seems like the kind of game that's better in multiplayer
But then I'm not personally really big on zombie survivals
vague galleon
ya. me neither but it was interesting enough i wanted to try it.
i definitely need more people though lol
vague galleon
i think i need to find a good base to setup in and see what building is like.
im honestly not looking for a huge challenge, just some casual fun.
timber prism
vague galleon
YO IS THAT SOME LEFT HANDED ACTION I SEE?!!
peak marsh
So apparently now that the MMO is canceled, they're doing a Horizon live service instead. Because the world needed more of those
tepid wadi
For some reason, corporations cant make the connection that MMOs are live service games.
vague galleon
kek
peak marsh
Well, I think it's less about making that connection rather than making the connection that if you just make some kind of PVP style game, all you need to do is release a few skins every couple months and the players will make all the content for you
Less money for development, more money for yachts and islands in international waters where questions aren't asked
But much like MMOs, the problem they're swiftly running into is that a lot of people already have their "home" game in that genre. Sure, they might leave for a bit and go on vacation in your game for a little while, but mostly they'll all go back home eventually
Unless you have a perfect storm, like how Overwatch decided to screw the pooch just long enough and at just the right time for Marvel Rivals to swoop in and eat their lunch
tepid wadi
Concord says that might not always work 😝
But yeah, it's hard to continually release new live service games because players are overloaded with stuff they already like to play.
peak marsh
That's why I found the Horizon thing so strange. Have we learned nothing from Concord and Suicide Squad? The. I remember that AAA never learns anything xD
vague galleon
it takes them years to "learn".
and by learn i mean move on to chasing the next exploitive scheme that will also fail.
short sail
Funnily enough except for Nintendo. At least I couldn't find anything bad directly from them and not other sub companies.
(I look at you, cute pocket monsters)
peak marsh
Well and I'm making a very blanket statement. Some, like Capcom actually learn from past mistakes. They've gone a long way towards doing things right since the Street Fighter 5 debacle
Performance issues with MHW aside, they haven't done anything egregious since then afaik
tepid wadi
I'm definitely starting to feel that Wilds is a lot easier than other games have been, but I don't think it's necessarily even that enemy damage has been turned down. The game does a much better job of warning you when you take big damage and are standing in the line of fire for another big attack, so it's easier to see when you're in a safe spot to use a potion or whatever you need to do.
There are a lot of little things like that that contribute to the difficulty being easier. The Seikret allowing you to use items while moving quicker, whetstones restoring sharpness over time instead of all at the end, your palico having a lot of options to help you, etc
I also think some monsters are less aggressive than in World. We don't have a bagelgoose or a nergigante that are always on top of you trying to eat you
peak marsh
Yeah, I noticed some of the more aggressive, harder to hunt monsters didn't make it into the base release. No Diablos, no Nargacuga, no Barioth, etc
Though I feel like there are certain things you can do to make the feel more in line with older titles. Things like leaving your palico at base, turning off camera lock and not using the wound lock on feature, etc
Ive been using him for materials so far but at a certain point I almost always leave my palico at home at a certain point in every game, just because I find it obnoxious when the monster is focused on it and I can't draw it out to where I want it
Like if I'm going for a wing cut I don't want the monster constantly spinning around to fight the palico
pastel summit
Does anyone have any opinions on Icarus?
peak marsh
Needs more time in the oven imo
Decent if you get it on a good sale but not one I'd pay full price for
hollow barn
Though I feel like there are certain things you can do to make the feel more in ...
I see myself barely using the focus feature with DBs just because the new move is so good at destroying everything
peak marsh
I think I used it once to try it out but I'm so used to angling both myself and my camera that it felt like more of a nuisance than a benefit
At least with GS. I could see it having a place with ranged weapons maybe
hollow barn
The Focus move with the bow is a bit to good imo, auto lock on to destroy all wounds
tepid wadi
Does anyone have any opinions on Icarus?
It's pretty good. It's probably not in my top 5 survival games, but it's got a solid foundation. Ever since they added the continual play focus instead of the discrete missions, it feels a lot better.
peak marsh
The Focus move with the bow is a bit to good imo, auto lock on to destroy all wo...
Oh, so it turns it into an easy mode?
Bow is usually my second favorite weapon. Either bow or HH. I'll probably still use free look for those unless they have a fight so hectic that aim lock becomes mandatory
Which could be interesting if done right 🤔
I'm still going through my GS playthrough but I'm honestly stoked to see how bow feels, I hear they've made a lot of improvements
Like, that's not to say I'm going to necessarily play start to finish with GS, then do other weapons, but I usually like to stick with my GS until I've learned enough of the patterns and mechanics that it starts to feel a little mundane, then I start changing up
With the exception of games where we've had monsters like Baroth where hammer or horn is effectively required
I mean like, you can fight him with a bladed weapon, but what kind of life are you living? xD
tepid wadi
I always found him easy enough with LS, but that's because of the free Mind's Eye on the main combo
peak marsh
Yeah but so much sharpening o.o
tepid wadi
Eh, speed sharpening is usually a 1-slot deco, so getting 3 points in it is NBD. Especially since we dont have to gather/buy whetstones any more.
peak marsh
Yeah but you're sacrificing things like attack boost, crit boost, part breaker, earplugs, etc
Especially earplugs. LS is all about keeping the pressure on, anything that stops you attacking is sacrificing DPS. My personal LS build always has earplugs, wind resist, or both
But also, I suck at LS xD
finite saffron
I wasn't a big fan of MH: World so all the MH fans saying they don't like the new one is making me wonder if I'll like it lol
peak marsh
Like I'm okay, I can get through a hunt and cut a tail, but LS is one of my weakest weapon proficiencies
peak marsh
I wasn't a big fan of MH: World so all the MH fans saying they don't like the ne...
Honestly the complaints are nothing to do with the gameplay. Capcom rushed the PC release to please shareholders and dumped it extremely unoptimized. But as far as the game, it's as good as it's ever been
Maybe a few minor gripes about certain changes, but honestly all the changes have done nothing but streamline the experience
finite saffron
Yeah makes sense, the benchmark even ran really weird on my pc
peak marsh
After doing a bit of personal research about it, a lot of it has to do with pleasing shareholders. In Japan, Capcom is in Q4 of their fiscal year, and pre-wilds their revenue was about 60% of their year end goal, so they panicked and released PC early. With every other PC monster hunter game, there was a 6-8 month lag between PC and consoles. Because with consoles, you only have 3 or 4 pieces of hardware to optimize for vs thousands
But Capcom needed to show profits, so they dropped early and counted on franchise hype and early adopters to make up the bottom end. And at the end of the day they were right, they did, but also that trick only works once or twice
tepid wadi
Also if you've found MH games to be too grindy in the past, you'll enjoy this one. You rarely need to kill a monster more than 2-3 times to be able to make its armor and weapons.
And for the story portion of the game, you can pretty much breeze through it
peak marsh
Yeah. It's really the most accessible entry to-date. It's not like previous entries where in order to really get into it you needed a second screen with a wiki open
And enough time to grind the same thing for 5 hours to get a rare drop (looking at you, Rath Ruby in MHFU >.>)
The easy way to gauge it is if you like boss fights, MH Wilds is going to be a good time
finite saffron
Also if you've found MH games to be too grindy in the past, you'll enjoy this on...
Yeah MH: worlds in general felt like it was wasting my time, both the grind and all the chores/pointless tasks it made you do
so if this has less of that, that sounds nice
peak marsh
Yeah, in this one you really don't have chores at all, at least not mandatory ones
tepid wadi
Yeah, they've really streamlined things, especially for the story
It's basically non-stop
peak marsh
You occasionally need a certain material that isn't very common, but that's literally just going a couple zones out of your way to grab it, you don't even need to get off your mount if you don't want to
And while I say "zones", it's as open-feeling as I've ever seen, you could easily forget that it's not a completely seamless open world
You don't have that black screen between areas any more
They've done a great job at hiding the loading areas
Like, a real tip of the hat to the art design team on that. You do have these 'corridors' on the map that link one area to the next which is where they hide the loading, but it's tied into the environment so well that you don't notice that "okay, I'm in a loading zone" unless you're staring at your minimap
tepid wadi
Yeah, also those side areas are still beautiful so it doesn't feel like a loading area
The world is really well done overall.
peak marsh
Yeah, they really feel organic
timber prism
I wasn't a big fan of MH: World so all the MH fans saying they don't like the ne...
I think most newcomers will enjoy it but the gripes from old fans is more with some difficulty changes and the lack of build diversity in a game where your typical endgame is just farming random sets. They eliminated most of that and you majority of players are just fighting one of two monsters
Those two monsters aren't even hard and people are already hitting sub 4 minute clears on them
tepid wadi
Yeah, I have some concerns about the longevity, but they aren't major concerns really. I'm hoping they hear the difficulty complaints and eventual G-rank/expansion is tough as nails
timber prism
Like the only endgame atm is just farming MONSTER SPOILER || tempered arkveld duo || for max artisan drops or || Gore || if you want to run that one build
tepid wadi
I dunno, I feel like 'endgame' is kind of a meh concept for 90% of monster hunter players. Most will play through the story, do some HR stuff, and drift off. Maybe come back for fun events, and then pick it up again when the expansion happens.
timber prism
And you do that as soon as you beat the game. Zero reason to farm anything else bc nothing else gives || rarity 8 parts ||
Nah. You see people will hundreds to thousands of hours in MH games
tepid wadi
Yeah, but those people are outliers
timber prism
And you get all of the experience in like 10 hours of Wilds
They aren't. They are just MH fans
People would make crazy builds for hours.
tepid wadi
We're also likely to see a ton of new monsters via event quests and stuff
peak marsh
"Akshully" it is, but literally it's not. Anyone who has played any MH game wouldn't call release endgame xD
tepid wadi
That also happened with World over the course of the first year
peak marsh
Bruh, what are you on? When has any MH game at release been "end game"? xD
timber prism
Its not endgame difficulty
tepid wadi
No one's gonna argue that it's way easier, that's for sure.
peak marsh
End game is G rank
timber prism
But this is literally all thats offered atm
peak marsh
I mean, it's expectation at this point. They've been doing this for like 15 years, release is NEVER endgame
timber prism
I mean. Both of you argued that it wasn't easier and it was just LR that easy
And people were overexagerating the difficulty
But its clearly easier
tepid wadi
Oh it is for sure.
No question there. But I think the ease comes from improvements more than nerfing, if that makes sense
timber prism
So much was just unbalanced
tepid wadi
Like the wound system is a huge improvement, but also lets you do big damage really fast
peak marsh
Literally every single MH game starting with MHFU has set the standard that release is low to low high rank, and expansion is final high rank through G rank (aka endgame). Calling anything now endgame is silly xD
timber prism
The new wound system is the easiest thing to exploit
tepid wadi
Also, Wilds seems more frontloaded with new monsters, whereas a lot more new monsters from World were mid-late game monsters.
timber prism
Its literally the endgame loop atm
tepid wadi
Yeah, wounds are too powerful probably
peak marsh
There is no endgame loop because there is no endgame xD
tepid wadi
Breaking them does too much extra damage
timber prism
?????
tepid wadi
I think it's fine to call it the current endgame, because it's what's there.
It's not the ultimate endgame sure, but it's what exists
timber prism
^
peak marsh
It's not endgame. It's just not. We're waiting for endgame, endgame isn't here yet xD
This is how MH works xD
peak marsh
It's the end of the game so far, it's the "akshully" endgame
tepid wadi
🤷♀️
timber prism
Its like saying ffxiv expansion isn't endgame raiding bc something new will be released later
peak marsh
Its like saying ffxiv expansion isn't endgame raiding bc something new will be r...
I mean, I'd bite if they haden't done this for like 8 generations worth of games so far xD
tepid wadi
Either way, I think we can agree they should ramp up the challenge to the endgame stuff via event quests, new monster introductions, title updates, and expansions.
peak marsh
G rank is endgame, everything else is not xD
tepid wadi
Yeah, and it should be more challenging than the current game is 👍
timber prism
Yeah. I think we need a loop that isn't farming 1 of 2 monsters
peak marsh
Even calling it that in a technical sense is ignoring like 15 years worth of releases and the pattern they've established xD
timber prism
Most of my friends went back to GU already
tepid wadi
Yeah. I think we need a loop that isn't farming 1 of 2 monsters
I feel like it usually boils down to this ultimately. Once you build your ideal set, there's never a reason to farm more than a couple monsters.
That's usually when I quit the game and come back later
timber prism
Well past games you farmed diff weapons right
peak marsh
I mean, it depends on how much you want to play with situational sets and equipment, which right now is kinda meaningless because we don't have endgame yet xD
timber prism
But now its just crafting mats from 1 of 2 for every single weapon
tepid wadi
Yeah, it's a lot easier to get the mats you need to make weapons/armor. Way fewer hunts per piece.
But it's also less frustration trying to get a freaking rathian gem that won't drop
timber prism
I'm specifically talking about artisans
peak marsh
Like, I love playing with silly situational status sets. Like a GS para set for instance, There's just nothing that really warrents that right now
timber prism
Para is the go to for most people atm
tepid wadi
I'm not sure how I feel about artisans. It feels really easy to make them so I fell like they should be worse than other weapons
peak marsh
Yeah but nobody plays para on GS because it's inefficient. Personally I find those fun on hard monsters xD
timber prism
I wish we could transmog the weapon so you would at least farm for that
tepid wadi
Yeah, transmog weapons would be nice. I love the Arkveld dual blades
peak marsh
I kinda feel like it's a design choice though. I'd love it but you want to see what other hunters are bringing to the table since MH was designed with a multiplayer first experience in mind
Like if you're hunting say Rathalos and someone has a fire weapon, you and everyone else will know why your damage sucks xD
timber prism
What design choice? Everyone makes an artisan and they all look exactly the same but have different effects
There are only a few weapons where you would opt to use a regular R8
peak marsh
Not having general cosmetic weapons. Artisan isn't available from low rank
timber prism
But its what most people are using atm
Bc its the strongest for most weapons
Which you can craft as soon as you beat the game
peak marsh
I'm saying. I think the design choice was to let people see what other people are using throughout the experience, so 1) the example I mentioned above, but in contrast to that, if your damage is amazing, you can see someone is using that dragon or water weapon and want to make one of your own
timber prism
Except there is zero need to craft any specific weapon or armor throughout the whole experience since the difficulty never ramped up and you could just craft whatever you had mats for when you beat the story monster
peak marsh
That much is opinion, I'm saying why it might be an objective design decision
MH is and always has been a multiplayer focused experience
timber prism
They made a design choice to make the loop farming for artisan
peak marsh
I mean, excluding the oddball first releases on PS2
timber prism
MH is and always has been a multiplayer focused experience
This doesn't change anything I said about the experience
peak marsh
It underscores what I did
timber prism
Did you actually look at what everyone was using to craft said item as you played?
peak marsh
No but if someone was tearing it up in a hunt, I was interested in what they were using
peak marsh
And if you're familiar enough and know enough about the weapons, you can call someone out when a hunt is going bad against a monster strong vs fire and someone has a big, bright, glowing orange sword xD
peak marsh
I'm speaking generally across the series, please keep up
peak marsh
Right, but I'm saying that's why it may and likely was a design choice
timber prism
But like I said. They clearly made the loop farming artisans
And they all look the same
So why does that design choice apply?
peak marsh
Sure, they want you to reach a point before you can hide what you're using from other people xD
But when you're making nubcakes mistakes they want other people to be able to call you out for it so you can be better xD
timber prism
I just think it was an oversight
And I have a feeling they may add it in later
Thats my hope at least
Bc there isn't any reason not to now
peak marsh
I'd expect you won't see it until late high rank at minimum
Again, I don't think it's an accidental oversight
They've been doing MH for long enough that they wouldn't just "oopsie poopsies" and forget to add cosmetic weapons if they wanted them
timber prism
I'm pretty sure they are just gonna add more rarity ranks for artisan bc its clear its their design for their farm loop
They also never had you farming to craft this generic looking weapon before
That does any element
And status
peak marsh
Sure, that's a change in and of itself and I'd guess it's a middle road for people who want full cosmetic weapons. They don't want that, or at very least don't feel it's in the game's best interest, so here's an in-between
timber prism
There isn't anything cosmetic about it at all lmao
Or I'm not understanding what you think their logic is to make the same looking weapon do everything which negates anything you said about them wanting people to see what weapons people are using
peak marsh
There isn't anything cosmetic about it at all lmao
What design choice? Everyone makes an artisan and they all look exactly the same but have different effects
That part
timber prism
Doesn't that negate everything you said about their design choice of wanting people to see what weapons people are using and thats why they don't have transmogs to begin with?
I'm clearly speaking of Wilds and not the series as a whole
timber prism
What is the middle road for that being cosmetic?
When its just one design for everything
peak marsh
They don't want you hiding what your weapon is and does. But at end game, here's an option where your weapon can look uniform or different from it's design based on what it does
"end game"
peak marsh
I mean, does fire element glow orange? Does ice glow blue?
tepid wadi
I dunno, it's a co-op game. I don't think it's that critical to be able to visually distinguish what exact weapon your allies have.
peak marsh
It's kinda not though. Think through the original intention, it was supposed to be for Japanese train commuters. You can hop on during your train ride, connect to other people through your PSP/DS, and hunt. It was very random pick-up-and-play focused
timber prism
I mean, does fire element glow orange? Does ice glow blue?
So if its just glow that makes it a diff cosmetic why can't you just have that glow for any transmog?
peak marsh
So if its just glow that makes it a diff cosmetic why can't you just have that g...
I'm not necessarily interested in picking nits. I've kinda said what I have to say about it being a design choice xD
timber prism
Gotcha XD
tepid wadi
Even for pick up play, the only time I ever might need to know what my allies do is when they're sleeping monsters. And I feel like people rarely do that with randos
timber prism
The sleep animation is easy to see too
I don't even think that matters
Is it def a co op multiplayer game. As Rhoisaad said... its been multiplauer focused
peak marsh
Thing is I'm not speaking in terms of practical application, but rather in terms of design philosophy. And I'm completely guessing as I'm not nor have I ever been a member of Capcom's development team, so it's entirely possible I'm off base XD Just a feeling I get from playing these games for 17 years xD
timber prism
I'm just theorycrafting too... but I think its an oversight for their current games loop
I don't see any reason why we can't have it bc the only one staring at my character is me XD
tepid wadi
Yeah, its' definitely a co-op game, that's what I said. What I mean is that because it's co-op I don't really care about the specific of my party member's gear. That's why transmogs wouldn't bother me. I'm never gonna be like "Wow your fire weapon did so much more damage!" because I don't see damage numbers for my allies.
I don't even get their sound effects the same way, which kinda sucks because the "zing" sound that the super helm breaker from LS is good feels.
I want to hear that even if it's a buddy using the LS
peak marsh
Yeah, its' definitely a co-op game, that's what I said. What I mean is that beca...
Fair, but also it was designed in terms of "on the train/in a playground" type ad hoc multiplayer, not "playing in California with someone in New Zealand" type multiplayer. There's a removed sense of interaction from what the original design intention was, and not to say that's also the design intention now but it does color the design approach
tepid wadi
Yeah, but even that doesn't mean much. If I see a complete rando the most I'll ever think about their gear is "woah that looks cool" which doesn't really matter if it's transmog'd or not
peak marsh
Right but that's you as a player, not you as a designer xD
The franchise has moved well past that, especially since world, but the designers may and probably are still struggling to follow it xD
tepid wadi
I dunno, they've done a great job evolving everything else. There's probably some Business Reason ™️ that we don't know about
peak marsh
That's also distinctly possible
vague galleon
should rename this channel to Monster Hunter Talks.
peak marsh
should rename this channel to Monster Hunter Talks.
Yeah but that channel would only last 2 months at most xD
vague galleon
what, no, it's the hot new game series!
peak marsh
For the next 2 months. Then people would be on to the next one xD
vague galleon
no way, it will be played for years to come!
peak marsh
But it was neither hot nor new xD
vague galleon
it totally is.
tepid wadi
I'm sure when theres another big release, itll dominate the channel for a bit
vague galleon
but, wilds IS hot and new. it's all the buzz cause it came out yesterday!
peak marsh
Give it a month, we'll be playing it but we won't be talking about it xD
hollow barn
Oh, so it turns it into an easy mode?
Kinda but you can easily not use it, the new coating system is absolutely awsome tbh
peak marsh
Kinda but you can easily not use it, the new coating system is absolutely awsome...
How so?
hollow barn
How so?
You don't have to carry and craft all your coatings and there is pierce and explosion coatings
peak marsh
Thats great. The upkeep for bows was always a little obnoxious
peak marsh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RXtv6bD84Y - Bummer. Game looked interesting and seems well designed artistically, but sounds like its just not making the right choices
tepid wadi
Thats too bad. But also man don't get me started talking about the idea of creating an MMO starting with smaller mechanics and scaling up over time. I'll talk your ear off for a couple weeks 😝
vague galleon
oh ya?
tepid wadi
<insert 3 hour lecture about how crafting in MMOs has immense unrealized potential and an MMO with crafting as a central mechanic could be built to blow existing/in progress MMOs out of the water>
vague galleon
i do love being able to craft my own gear.
tepid wadi
Imagine if crafting was also skill-based. Like you could actually be GOOD at blacksmithing/tailoring/whatever, so people would come to you to craft their gear because they know you're good at the skill-based minigame
Imagine if crafting systems were designed to encourage social play, working together, grouping up to experience things and more just as much as combat progression was
Imagine if as much energy was devoted to making crafting a whole, interesting gameplay loop so there might be players who spend 80% of their time crafting because it is fun to do
Imagine if the crafting experience was a core pillar of the gameplay, and instead of being something of an afterthought add, many elements of the game were designed around the expectation that crafting exists
vague galleon
but then i'd suck at it.
social play? working together? in an MMO?!
boy dont get me started on that, although im just as guilty lol
peak marsh
I mean, TBF MMOs themselves have been funneling us towards being less social between auction houses and dungeon finder mechanics
In a broad majority you can solo most of the content and queue the rest and hit max level without ever having a conversation
vague galleon
i freaking hate every mmo story i've ever played.
like, sure, runescape and TOR had actual quests, no comment on ultima or everquest that i never played, but wow and FF had garbage quests. and witcher was just a single player MMO
but like, I HATE how I've never seen an MMO that doesnt have a single player storyline.
tepid wadi
See I think MMOs could do a lot better with building mechanics that encourage certain types of social play. Like yeah PvP is great, but what about encouraging people to actually work together? To socialize? To gather or disperse?
Strong law/justice systems, player interactions that are meaningful and things like that are so rare to even be considered in MMO development that there's a reason so many of them end up as "single player, together"
I also think that weaving player/NPC/GMPC interactions could do a TON to make MMOs better.
Like imagine if the king (a GMPC, not invincible) appointed player guilds to certain positions, and interacted with the community in interesting ways. If multiple nations/factions had GMPCs like this that drive political movement and take player actions into account, you could have really interesting, permanent, continual development in gameplay.
You could have the king of one nation hire a guild secretly to assassinate an neighboring king, and the neighboring king has a guild dedicated to city security that has been bribed to look the other way. Or maybe they double cross the assassinating guild to wipe the floor with them.
So many cool potential interactions that can be driven by the company that runs the MMO, but give players an important part in how things are driven forward without any need for significant mechanical changes.
peak marsh
Personally I'd like to see an evolution of how WOW does world changing events. Like, have similar world events without a determined outcome, let the actions of the players determine it, but have it across multiple fronts and factions
tepid wadi
Yeah, I'd love to see that too. GW2 did a bit of that, but the player interaction was fairly minor.
peak marsh
Like something more advanced than "more army big number win", where military might matters but also economics, diplomacy, and espionage
tepid wadi
That's kinda how I see the politics stuff too with GMPCs. Like, if a leader gets assassinated, it could plunge the nations into war, with players who are allied (gotta be allied to own a house in the nation, of course) all choosing sides to fight for, major military actions, sieges, etc. There's so much potential even without things like zones getting destroyed or anything like that.
peak marsh
There's a war game that did something really interesting with supply chains, they had one war that lasted a month because the supply chains on both sides were so solid that it was just a stalemate, but then one side tipped the tables by making a final push. Meaning in MMO terms, crafters wouldn't just be imporant, they'd be essential
tepid wadi
If it's built into the way players expect to interact with the game, then it can really elevate all the social aspects that are unique to MMOs without requiring direct player interactions
tepid wadi
There's a war game that did something really interesting with supply chains, the...
And you could theoretically have dissenters flood the crafted items with low quality stuff, hindering the war effort because all the NPC soldiers are equipped with garbage gear.
peak marsh
That to me is a big one. The world is such an important part of the MMO experience but we're still getting games where the player only has a passive role in it
vague galleon
i'd hate to see my favorite npc killed off though. 😦
tepid wadi
Yeah, and it's a meaningful effort to make the world alive. But like... MMOs are the live service game with the most potential, having 1-5 people on staff whose entire job it is to run "the world" is a pretty big value add
tepid wadi
i'd hate to see my favorite npc killed off though. 😦
Yeah but like... it being a possibility can make things more exciting. Like it shouldn't be EASY to kill a king/leader/whatever, but the potential for things like that to happen make the world that much more alive and interesting.
Also like imagine some "mysterious wanderer" GMPC that shows up and gives players unique quests for rare resources, or tells rumors at taverns in the middle of nowhere and stuff like that. How freaking cool would that be?
Any number of things are possible when you have people actually piloting NPCs
peak marsh
Wild. Evidentially in some hospitals, they use Xbox Kinect in operating rooms so surgeons can scroll and manipulate CT scan images etc without breaking sterility
Like, they set it up so you can move or enlarge an image with hand gestures
tepid wadi
Oh yeah, I've also heard about them using VR gaming tools to do certain surgeries because they can use it to zoom and enhance and it can make a huge difference
peak marsh
Like the genre needed more ice thrown on it, Gran Saga, which cost $25m to produce, is shutting down after 4 months
I mean, anyone with a pulse could have predicted an auto play MMO wouldn't do terribly well but it's another reason for companies to feel gun shy about the genre
tepid wadi
One day our dream MMO will come, even if we have to make it ourselves 🤷♀️
peak marsh
If only someone could somehow combine the fluidity and engaging content of say ESO with the open, community driven and life skill focused nature of UO
UO on a small-medium sized shard is actually really good, even today. It just feels clunky and dated (mostly because it is)
I was especially disappointed by that one MMO from former UO devs which I can't seem to remember the name of. It was going to be a spiritual successor but they didn't innovate enough, making it basically feel like UO with a graphics mod but worse, then they left Steam to introduce blockchain elements and you can guess the rest
It was one of the few online games I actually pre-ordered because I wanted to help support it, but it just failed and failed hard
tepid wadi
Lots of MMOs lately trying to immitate niche successes of the past without looking to meaningfully evolve the genre. Thats what drives me nuts.
Like I get it, I loves EQ, UO, and SWG, but technology has evolved since then that enables us to do SO MUCH MORE
peak marsh
Exactly, and if we wanted to play those old games, we can right now. It's like doing a cover song that sounds exactly like the original but with a worse singer, why wouldn't I just go listen to the original?
I don't care that it was mastered at a higher bitrate, the old song still sounds better
Which is really all the end user cares about. Sure you might have a better, smoother engine and higher res graphics etc etc, but is the game fun and does it do anything new?
tepid wadi
Part of the problem is that the companies with the cash to take on the risk of building an MMO are so risk averse that they cant try new things that might fail.
And indie companies only have the resources to rebuild nostalgic projects from the past
peak marsh
Yeah, in a nutshell. To go back to that, Gran Saga cost $25m and failed within 4 months. That's a tough sell to a board of investors
Which again, it was auto play garbage so the result isn't shocking, but it's one more thing to point to as far as the risk involved
MMOs are already a niche within a niche, and even the most successful ones like WoW, ESO, and FFXIV can't even scratch the surface of the player numbers that games like COD, Monster Hunter, or Diablo bring in
(I use ESO because the Steam numbers are a lot closer to actual, FFXIV you can only estimate because a majority of the entrenched users play through their launcher)
But yeah, player-wise the other MMOs aren't far off and they're all drawing from the same limited player pool because they can't seem to figure out how to make one with more broad appeal. I feel like we're getting closer though, we're starting to see more games with more intuitive action based combat vs the kinda outdated tab target systems most have
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against tab targeting, but in terms of modern gaming it's practically archaic
tepid wadi
Well, sort of. I think the business value proposition of an MMO vs live service game is very different. If we assume a $60 box price (for easy math) for Monster Hunter vs a MMO. MH sold 8m copies
If the MMO has subscribers for a year, at $15/mo, each user is going to be paying for effectively 4x game copies over that time. MMOs can have a guaranteed income stream via subs that other games just cant get.
It only breaks down when the business strategy is "line go up forever" because there arent infinite playere
peak marsh
Well and again the whole drawing from the same limited pool because the genre doesn't appeal broadly enough. Like, imagine a game that's basically MH wilds (ignoring current technical issues), with that degree of fluid combat and movement, that's instead formatted like an MMO with an open world, quests, levels, dungeons etc. Maybe you charge a $60 box price but that also includes your first 6 months of subscription
Afterwards you start your $15 a month. Or maybe you use an ESO model where you have box price and the base game free, but you can either purchase DLCs or pay for the sub to unlock everything but also get currency that can buy things like cosmos and DLC
I still think ESO has the most player friendly business model in MMOs. The ESO+ subscription lets you play absolutely everything, but also gives you the currency you need over time to buy the things you want in the shop
tepid wadi
In my fantasy world, the perfect MMO doesnt sell cosmetics. I could do a whole TED talk about how tying design space directly to revenue streams harms core game development pillars.
TL:DR if you have to sell cosmetics, some of, if not all the best looking stuff has to come from them
And that dilutes "cool stuff" from the rest of the game.
peak marsh
I mean, I wholeheartedly agree. Visual progression in particular is important both to game design and player satisfaction and walling off any of that only holds the game back. But also I think we're in that post-horse armor timeline where the reality is that paid vanity is more or less mandatory
At least if you're a live service
MH does it pretty well, where there are certain "special" vanity items behind DLC but you can still transmog anything to look like anything else that you've crafted before
tepid wadi
Yeah, I think an MMO with a subscription is the only live service game that can fully justify no sold cosmetics and stuff
And I think gamers would approve if those things and battle pass reward styles were just game features
peak marsh
But now you're excluding players who could potentially become subscribers later because they don't want to commit to a subscription now. Going back to ESO I think the ESO+ model is the way to go. An affordable sub that also gives shop currency so you can buy the DLCs outright if you want or you can use the currency to buy cosmetics since the sub also unlocks the content
But players who only paid for the base game can still experience all the base content. It's just when they see someone with sweet armor, it advertises your sub for you
Not that I'm a fan of that style of peer pressured tactic either, but in terms of the modern live service business model it's still player friendly while also conveying why the sub is actually a good deal for the player instead of just being a requirement
Like, you're opening up the full experience but you're also getting paid currency for your money, that you can use for anything you want whether it's cosmetics or the DLC you like playing the most. With the option to cancel the sub but still keep all of your paid currency items
Like, I had ESO+ for 6 months and I bought 5 DLCs and decked out both my healer and my tank with cosmetic armor and mounts before I canceled the sub. For the 5k hours I played I spent $30 on base and $90 on the sub over the course, and I feel like I got exceptional value for that because even though I haven't played in like 4 years I could log on today and I'll still have all of that
tepid wadi
I dont think theres necesaarily any problem with demos or trials or whatnot. I like the idea of expansions coming with game time, for example
I'm mostly talking about a MTX shop
Like, dev time spent on MTX cosmetics could instead be spent on in game value to players instead.
Even a limited free play version of the game is probably fine with the right restrictions
peak marsh
That's fair, though for every DLC expansion or cosmetic added, your subscription players are either going to have access to that or already do by virtue of having everything unlocked and getting their currency along with their sub every month, if you're going by the model I'm talking about
And that's kind of where I feel we're at. Like, server costs are a thing and maintenance and continued development are a thing, so live service games need to have a revenue stream, and it's a really tough sell to bring in new players with a model that requires a monthly commitment up front
So you need a middle ground where you need players to get invested so they'll pay the subscription to keep the game open, but you need to do it in a player friendly way that gives a certain sense of value while also not making paying up front a requirement because, what if they decide they don't like the game? They have to pay a full month when they might only play for 2 weeks?
I think that's another part of why MMOs are stagnating. The business model is a minefield littered in eggshells
I honestly can't blame a developer for not wanting to navigate that
But that's where I think maybe a compromise is you make your base $40 - 50, which includes 6 months of subscription up front. After that, your players need a sub around the neighborhood of $15 a month to play, but there are no MTX or DLC, the game is just the game.
Still cheap on the scale of current and near future game prices (GTA 6 is pushing for $100 at launch ._.), and you get 6 months worth of gameplay for that initial investment
After that you can continue to invest, but if you don't you still got to play for 6 months
Or maybe you play for 4 months, skip the sub, and get a sub when new content drops. Pay the sub for a few months until you're done with the new stuff, rinse and repeat
tepid wadi
Yeah, I think that's totally fine. Some form of limited free play definitely makes sense. You just have to do the obvious restrictions to counter things like gold farming and all that yada yada.
peak marsh
Exactly. In this scenario, limited but completely unlimited until the first expansion. You plan for that first content drop 6 months from launch but keep the initial release open in perpetuity. That way you give a distinction that when you buy the game the game is yours, and you only have to pay more for "extra toppings"
tepid wadi
Yeah, depends on how you set up your content pipeline. I personally wouldn't wait 6 months for content. I'd be looking at ways to keep things moving immediately after launch and try to create an understanding with the player base about how content will work. I'm sure there's also a TON of research you can look into about how players react to various engagement/payment methods
misty arch
sonic pumice
CUB wow mount
north ledge
Which of these would yall use?
(it rolled affinity x3, sharpness x2)
tepid wadi
Not a big fan of Sleep in general, personally
peak marsh
Status effects in general are lackluster on GS. But of those two I'd probably go for 5 less attack but 15% more affinity
Like, I'll sometimes make a GS paralyze set for the lulz but it's hard to get any status to proc more than once a fight with GS
And it usually takes a long time
hollow barn
Not a big fan of Sleep in general, personally
I like a sleep palico but that is all the sleep I like
timber prism
Sleep is fine solo
finite saffron
CUB wow mount
@untold lynx
digital carbon
It's a silly little game but it's so much fun and hilarious!
https://youtu.be/kprpVYWa4Qg
vapid wigeon
Y'all!
Remember fireflies? They are (gonna be) endangered! More information here about how we can help!!
tranquil cove
@finite saffron we cant have traversal challenge with treasure hunt and maybe monster/boss?
finite saffron
That seems a little specific for a single poll lol, but we'll be adding more details with future polls
tepid wadi
Valourant wants E: All of the above 😝
peak marsh
Why is the YT thing about fireflies a game? xD
tranquil cove
Valourant wants E: All of the above 😝
yeah traversal seems interesting, i still remember the challenge to get to the top of 1 of the spires with all the vines
that was the most memorable thing in the game for me
jumping across vines
it was frustrating as heck, but once you did it, felt really rewarding/good
and games rarely create strong memories like that imo
tepid wadi
People HATE that spire
tranquil cove
haha
i mean it wasnt even too hard
i consider it a positive memory overall
the problem was we were doing it at night time
tepid wadi
Did you ever do the mad king's tower in GW2?
tranquil cove
which made it all the more difficult, hard to see anything
tepid wadi
peak marsh
I actually liked the Albaneve spire
tepid wadi
I did QA on this, it was HARD in the first iteration
tranquil cove
traversal stuff reminds me of that game where everyone is linked together?
tepid wadi
The clocktower is super memorable to me because one of my friends could not do it and asked me to do it for him
tranquil cove
you know which game has traversals?
skateCPT
but the difference is there you can set waypoints wherever you want and respawn at those waypoints
so it feels more fun
since you dont need to start over from zero if you fall
tepid wadi
interesting
peak marsh
Personally I voted puzzles, because I like getting stumped and figuring it out xD
tranquil cove
oh you want puzzles
PUZZLES
in a way traversal = puzzles combined with movement
tepid wadi
I like "Puzzles" in Enshrouded, because 90% of the time the REAL answer is Grenades.
peak marsh
Yeah, though I enjoy trying to outsmart the devs xD
tepid wadi
There's a big psychology thing about working "around" a problem giving a lot of good feels.
peak marsh
Gaben defends the line xD
It's not actually anything new, they've had a "no in-game advertising on Steam" rule for over 5 years, but they recently made a separate page for it because EA is bringing it up again after having to apologize for a couple of their sports games
Basically a couple years ago EA had literally game interrupting ads in a couple games, big backlash, much apologizing, but now that it's calmed down they want to try it again, which is my most hated strategy in AAA
Push a line way too far, get a huge backlash, apologize, wait a year or two, then slowly inch back up to that line now that the inital shock and outrage is over and it's just "old news"
It's literally the Horse Armor Tactic
Fast forward from 2005 to 2025 and suddenly in game paid cosmetic items aren't just expected, they're celebrated because "at least it's only cosmetics"
I'm not going to go into a "back in my day" rant or anything, but companies like EA, Ubi, Activision all continue to use that tactic for things far more player abusive and I just appreciate when it's called out
tepid wadi
Definitely supports my "MMO with sub fee only and no MTX" concept actually being supported by gamers 😝
peak marsh
It's good to finally see but there's absolutely a growing sentiment overall I think of people being sick of all the big industry nonsense. Especially when you see companies like Capcom who do things (mostly) right and prove that the market gets behind it
Not necessarily excusing them pushing Wilds out early to make end of year goals, but as far as the broader industry is concerned and even some of their own past mis-steps, that's a pretty light-weight offense
And TBF I think they realize that's the kind of stunt they only get to pull once or twice before they see people refusing to buy their games at launch. Like, I'd predict the next time around their pre-orders will see a decline because of the Wilds launch
Which I mean is honestly fair. When you charge full price people expect a fully realized game and it's clear Wilds probably needed another month or two to sand off the rough edges
peak marsh
Meanwhile, at Electronic Arts:
Summary is they added paid currency and MTX to an alpha playtest
and they're doing an Early Access launch
tranquil cove
yeah i am part of beta test
if they dont make in game currency like warframe it will be a crap game imo
warframe i made 2000 platinum without buying it
lol
best pay to play game ever
you should be able to trade for san van bucks or earn it in some slow way
tepid wadi
Yeah, providing enough premium currency to give people a slow drip of premium stuff is a great way to keep people engaged with the MTX store
I don't really see any problem with early access premium currency purchases as long as they 1: carry over to the release game or 2: are refunded to be able to be respent in the released game.
Games being super early access is just a fact of life at this point
timber prism
Summary is they added paid currency and MTX to an alpha playtest
This isn't anything new to testing mtx. Numerous companies have done this and even give bonuses to testers for helping test it. I remember alpha testing Fortnite and the devs gave us 2x worth when the game launched
untold lynx
which sounds fair
okay we're already taking your bux but you get a lil something extra for lending a hand
peak marsh
Assuming they do that. Still seems gross either way
Like, you're still charging your unpaid testers as a multi-billion dollar company
timber prism
I can't remember if it was Elyon or some other Korean MMO but they gave people free currency to test their systems
Though it wasn't much
tepid wadi
Yeah, I've definitely seen that strategy.
I wonder if this is also about seeing what sort of things people WANT to buy with the currency as well. Like do you want those skins enough to purchase currency to get them?
timber prism
Yeah
peak marsh
Im sure that's part of it, but there's no reason it needs to be an actual transaction. Just give everyone a bunch of free "fun bux", see what becomes popular, and wipe it for EA. Use your pair for QA to test the actual transaction part
timber prism
Doesn't it though because dont they want to see if the transaction actually works with your bank account?
tepid wadi
Yeah, there's a lot of reasons to use real transactions to test. I imagine EA has a pretty good handle on those, but they may be using a new system or something for Skate
peak marsh
I mean, you can have the paid QA do that part
EA can't open some company bank accounts? xD
tepid wadi
There's a big difference between paid QA doing it and having players do it at scale.
Trust me, I'm a QA guy 😝
tepid wadi
EA can't open some company bank accounts? xD
Also, often the answer to this is No. I had a coworker get fired once because he was using company "test funds" on his personal account, even though that's what he was told to do to test the payment system.
Most companies don't even allow that scenario to get close to happening
peak marsh
Eh, I feel like at very least they can iron it out enough internally and save the transactions for EA
Or maybe I'm just being cynical because it's Electronic Arts 🤷♂️
tepid wadi
Probably a bit of both.
I can tell you for sure that there's a big difference between testing in the dev environment and on the production environment
peak marsh
I don't trust for a minute that the poor multi billion dollar AAA can't work out a payment system without opening MTX to unpaid testers
Also just double checked the article, it isn't like a bonus situation, you're buying the currency 1:1, the article goes on to say any purchases during alpha will just be refunded to your Electronic Arts account. So you're literally just buying it early
tepid wadi
That sounds like testing then, guaranteeing purchases will be refunded means that they aren't really taking anything
peak marsh
No, refunded as the mtx currency
So effectively you're just pre-buying the currency
They're just giving you a second chance to spend it xD
finite saffron
They wouldn't be the first game to do that in their defense, I remember Valorant did the same thing in their beta
At least in that game they gave you a bonus deal for buying it early, which maybe is why people didn't complain about it as much
peak marsh
I mean, again it could just be my cynicism about AAAs talking 🤷♂️
finite saffron
Oh I didn't say it was a good thing, just that they're not the first to pull this stunt haha
timber prism
I see zero issues with it and actually prefer mtx transaction testing prior to release to reduce actually issues at launch
No one is forcing testers to spend and you aren't losing anything from doing it
peak marsh
To me it's another example of companies trying to nickel and dime every last bit of every aspect of gaming as a hobby and that bothers me on a very fundamental level. Especially when it's not some mid-level developer but one of the companies that stands on top of the industry and is part of the Mount Rushmore of abusive anti-consumer practices
EA does not need to charge people money in an alpha to make MTX work. They've got it pretty well down at this point
It's kinda their big thing
In fact I'd hazard a guess that it's less to playtest or even data gather but more for shareholder forecasting than anything, but again that's probably my cynicism again
And that's not me saying that no company has to playtest MTX ever in the history of anything. I'm saying Electronic Arts, the behemoth built on the backs of FIFA whales, needs no help from Joe Public to make MTX work
Microtransactions, subscriptions, in-game rewards and additional revenues outside of base game sales represent the majority of EA's business. The “live services and other” segment accounted for more than 73% of the company's $7.56 billion in 2024 revenues, up from 66% in 2020
Like, I'm pretty sure they've got it down 😛
timber prism
MTX in FIFA or other sports games is not the same as Skate.
It sounds like you have an issue with MTX in general.. not it being in an alpha.
If you are getting that currency to spend I dont see the issue. Many devs have done this so not sure why you are upset that EA is doing it. Size of a company shouldn't matter
peak marsh
I have an issue with egregious MTX, not all MTX. I've come to terms a long time ago that MTX are just a different business model and done well, aren't player abusive (see: POE/2, Monster Hunter games, etc). I just don't trust EA to 1) Not be egregious, and 2) That they're doing it purely for fundamental development reeasons
But I mean, all are (obviously) my own personal views. If you don't have an issue, I'm not saying you should start
And hey, maybe this is the one time EA proves me wrong. But then again, this is the same company that abused overtime laws in regards to tech employees and forced devs to crunch 12 hours a day 7 days a week in the early 2000s until they were stopped by a series of lawsuits
At one point EA actually paid to send apology flowers to their developers spouses to apologize for all the working time in their stead. True story, actually Yhatzee just did a video about it xD
So I mean again I'm not just ranting about MTX, I just don't trust EA for a femtosecond
Also I don't feel that just because it's been done before and hasn't resulted in the worst of the industry practices out there that we shouldn't still be skeptical and critical, especially depending on who is doing it
I mean, TBF Mecha Break is doing a very similar thing, and actually has been criticized for having some egregious MTX involved pre-release, but so far it seems like the developers are listening and adjusting the business model based on the feedback, and I'm not raising my hackles about that one, I'm actually pretty excited for it even though I don't usually get into strictly competitive games outside of fighters
The difference between that and EA is I don't know these devs so I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt. EA spent decades exhausting all of my doubt
Especially in their case, I don't think a company that literally specializes in live service/MTX and made 7.5 billion with a B last year needs to crowdsource their testing process by having paid transactions in closed alpha or have an early access launch
timber prism
like Zerax also pointed out.. testing functions is good as well as having a focus group on seeing what people would actually spend on
I really hope it doesn't end up a thing where you are paying for stats like other EA games
and its just purely cosmetic board/player designs etc.
peak marsh
That's the other part I don't really trust. The concept is interesting and if it isn't in the mixed/negative category 3 months after launch I might give it a try. I'm personally expecting the standard AAA bait and switch, where they keep the MTX fair through EA and into early launch, just enough to get positive reviews/word of mouth, then add in all the gross stuff afterward
Actually Capcom pulled that one with Wilds, they didn't add the player/palico change vouchers until after the reviews were in. I mean, they're not new and frankly I expected them, but it's still a scummy practice
timber prism
didnt even know that about wilds
i also haven't tried to change my character bc i spent so much time making them in the first place XD
peak marsh
Yeah. During the review period the paid vouchers weren't a thing
I mean, you still get one of each for free and World had them too so the fact they exist doesn't bother me, it's that bait and switch tactic of making sure they aren't mentioned in the reviews
Actually I think Rise did that also come to think of it. Both the vouchers and not adding them in until after the review period
Capcom doesn't get a pass on that from me but overall I like Capcom as a company because they've significantly dialed back on the scummy AAA business nonsense compaired to all the other "legacy" companies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PwZyyzk0eg -On a less serious note, Mecha Break is actually looking really good, and again outside of fighting games I'm usually not into strictly competitive games
tranquil cove
Like, you're still charging your unpaid testers as a multi-billion dollar compan...
the testers are there to get the game early, so i dont mind they have an MTX store in early access that will be exactly the same like when the game is released? my situation doesn't change from full release? why should i get special treatment for being a tester? i dont get it? i volunteered to test so i can play the game early... all the store stuff is just some extra cosmetic stuff, it really has nothing to do with gameplay, and there is a ton of none game currency store clothing as well to customize my character still.
would i want the real money currency stuff to be obtainable in game still by other means at a much slower rate still? yes.
but they do have an in game currency to buy other things with it..
does it matter they early accessed the store not really?
only other option was to give us unlimited san van bucks, and let us buy stuff freely maybe? but then they would take that all away when game release, because it was given.
and actually what they did was give us 250 san van bucks
i got 250 for free
or something
plus before this store stuff, essentially we could obtain every store item for free, so we already were there, with getting every clothing item free.
now they introduced the real money, so they are testing it
peak marsh
I mean, I kind of mentioned that stuff among that text wall but I'm more extremely skeptical that a company that made 7.5 billion last year primary on live service and MTX needs to do so much testing in the first place. To me it sounds a lot more like finding a way to monetize the development process. Which for a small indie or mid sized AA studio wouldn't bother me so much, but it's EA
tranquil cove
eh, its still your perogative to buy
peak marsh
Again, their profits were 7.5-something billion with a B last year, primarily on MTX and live service
peak marsh
Yeah, like I said I'll wait 3 months and see if the reviews spike negative or not
I mean, that's not like some kind of altruistic gesture on EAs part. Even low level drug dealers know the easiest way to make money is to give a small taste for free
tranquil cove
I mean, that's not like some kind of altruistic gesture on EAs part. Even low le...
is warfram MTX?
peak marsh
It's an old tactic. Do whatever you can to guide players to your cash shop and make them comfortable with it, whether that's giving free currency or putting free gifts behind a shop window
tranquil cove
if they were smart they would make the currency you buy in game obtainable through grind, or trade, and then it becomes worth purchasing eventually, just because it sort of shows this good will of "hey you can actually obtain this currency other ways too, but buy it if you want it fast"
it makes me more likely to buy it
when i see a company operate that way
peak marsh
Yeah, but that can be rough in the other direction too, make the grind so punishing and long that you're basically pushed to pay at a point. IDK, again like I said during that earlier conversation it's less the fact that the MTX exist and more who is doing it, specifically EA
tranquil cove
works for warframe imo
i was never pushed to pay in warframe
and warframe has elements to it that might push you to pay, like weapon and warframe slots
peak marsh
Yeah, but Warframe isn't made by EA xD
tranquil cove
but i could always sell something to make platinum to buy more slots fairly easily with 1 hour of work
yeah i'd love it if more games did warframes system
most of the stuff they sell is obtainable in game too
except for slots, and like colour palettes or something
peak marsh
And the thing is, people play Warframe to grind in the first place and they make everything available without paying, so ultimately it winds up being pretty fair and the fact that it's still so popular really shows that
I just don't trust EA to be that fair because, well, EA xD
But hey, maybe this is the one where they turn over a new leaf and prove me wrong. I'd actually like being wrong, an online skating game actually sounds pretty interesting. I just hope they can do it without being EA about it xD
tepid wadi
Yeah, if EA ever wants to remake their image, they're gonna have a looooooong road
tranquil cove
But hey, maybe this is the one where they turn over a new leaf and prove me wron...
i dont like that they gave us 250 san van bucks
which is worth 3 dollars
and their prices on store start at $6
lol
and also they are selling hats in the store for basically $6
that's not a micro transaction
thats a FULL transaction
i can buy DLCs cheaper than that
rofl
thats like a starbucks coffee
peak marsh
Yep, old trick. Give people just enough that they only have to spend a little more to get something
tranquil cove
yep
peak marsh
And I bet you can't buy just $3 in bucks
tranquil cove
you can still buy stuff with the 250 but its like a board sticker or something lame
peak marsh
So I'm guessing bucks start at $5, which means after you spend your $6, you're left with too little to buy anything but just enough that you still just need one more transaction
tranquil cove
ill get you the prices
tranquil cove
So I'm guessing bucks start at $5, which means after you spend your $6, you're l...
so you can buy some stuff
with 250
but the packs are like 1450, 2350, and 900
you cant get any of the thraasher stuff except the ramp
lol also
the stuff that gives you the in game currency
if you do all the missions, you have to wait 2 days for them to reset
so you cant gain new town levels/store levels or currency until then
and you dont gain currency by random skating, which is what 90% of people do, 90% of the time
which is dumb
so i have no incentive to play at all
just log out for 2 days
since random skting gives nothing
peak marsh
Yeah, its all designed to make sure A) you always have some cash currency left over so you always think you just need a little bit more, and B) I'd bet the bigger packs are structured in a way to incentivize spending more just by the bonus amounts
tranquil cove
you can get 25 currency, if you join a group with a player who didnt do their missions yet? and they get something like 75-100 currency, you get 25 for joining them. but you need 150 to buy a box.
peak marsh
By that I mean the really desirable things will force you to buy either 3 $13 packs, or just one $33 pack. It's a trick to make you think you're getting better value by spending more money
That's why nothing is an even incriment
tranquil cove
but the packs are like 1450, 2350, and 900 these are the big purchases
so 1450+2350 is 3800
so you cant buy the 33.99 since it only gives 3000
if you wanted those two packs
so yeah
peak marsh
Yep. Textbook abusive pricing
tranquil cove
if they rename sanvan
to currency world
i will be fine with all they are doing
LOL
at least they will up front about it
peak marsh
I'll find it after work, there a guy on YT who does a really good breakdown of abusively priced MTs and how they're designed to affect you psychologically. It makes the patterns really easy to spot
peak marsh
if you do all the missions, you have to wait 2 days for them to reset
I'm guessing at some point, you'll be able to just buy a reset xD
Sounds an awful lot like the stamina system most mobile games use, and that's one of the big shop items there, buying stamina refills
It's there to give the whales a way to get ahead of the minnows xD
vague galleon
peak marsh
https://youtu.be/g16heGLKlTA?t=900 @tranquil cove Found it. The whole video is good but that timestamp is where he starts breaking down in game currency
tranquil cove
thanks i will definitely have a look
timber prism
if you do all the missions, you have to wait 2 days for them to reset
I don't see any actual issue to this
The focus of the new game has changed from single player career progression to a social hub where you just hang with friends to create awesome lines
The mtx thing is pretty on par with modern EA mtx shop but you can just use in game currency for the cosmetic lootboxes. I assume you will find similar/same cosmetics and the shop just targets the impatient who want to focus getting it immediately
I do miss old gaming where games were just complete packages
tranquil cove
I don't see any actual issue to this
the previous alpha releases were better imo, before you could do missions and see other people around you doing stuff, now you're locked into solo mode and see nothing.
and likewise the newest update seems to have removed milestones and achievements, and daily/weekly earning of currency stuff.
the new missions/challenges are good, but the system its under is kinda crap
timber prism
I'll have to log in sometime and check it
tranquil cove
the problem with 2 day waiting, is that they want to promote you not earning the game currency so you buy the other currency with real money imo.
you just get tired of waiting, you cant even grind the in game currency really
cause once you complete everything, there is a 2 day cooldown where you cant grind anymore
timber prism
I don't have an issue since its just a social hub game with friends
tranquil cove
how do you make friends and hook up on discord?
timber prism
Game servers?
tranquil cove
so it's a coop game
gotcha
its not a true social multiplayer experience
its coop social experience
timber prism
Are you sure you can't chat or invite into a group?
tranquil cove
you can invite to party
tranquil cove
and do emotes and body emotes
tranquil cove
And if you invite them you can't talk?
yeah no chat yet
no way to add to steam, you can maybe add people through the EA APP
rofl
ea app...
chat through ea APP maybe
tranquil cove
you can add people to ea app and chat there i guess
my satire on skatecpt
i have no problem with their mtx store if they rename san van to currency world
and put statues of big coins everywhere
and everytime you skate police officer threatens you with a fine that you need to pay with real world money
rofl
peak marsh
Every time you have a really bad wreck, EA mails you an actual medical bill xD
tranquil cove
or better yet this stuff is roleplayed in the game
and to pay your bill you have to sell the hat they just rewarded you for doing a quest
lol
you start selling your cosmetics in order to play
timber prism
> i have no problem with their mtx store if they rename san van to currency worl...
If only that was the case. We got more than fines and got put in squad cars XD
At least back in the 90s/2000s
timber prism
I actually met one of my best friends running from the cops XD
peak marsh
Tl:Dr; for reasons no one can explain, old SNES consoles are actually getting faster as they get older
No broader commentary, just an interesting weird phenomenon
wet osprey
What upcoming SURVIVAL games are you looking forward to?
vague galleon
my brother gave me an SNES that used to belong to the military.
he also had two copies of this military taining super scope game but the idiot sold one and cant find the other and I found a perfect condition super scope at goodwill and now I cant even use it to play the game!
peak marsh
What upcoming SURVIVAL games are you looking forward to?
There's not much that's got me excited in survivals atm. Dune looks cool
peak marsh
That Horizon knock off looks interesting if done well
peak marsh
What upcoming SURVIVAL games are you looking forward to?
https://youtu.be/oC45e9w_6Rk?si=sWC5pchV45w-SoWJ If you're looking for recommends definitely sub to Force. He follows survivals in particular and he has some pretty good tastes/takes in my opinion
Force is how I found Enshrouded xD
tepid wadi
Yeah, Force generally has good takes
I'm looking forward to Dune Awakening. I played in their beta and can't say much but I'll confirm that it's fun.
I'm also really looking forward to Lost Skies. If you remember World's Adrift, it's a reimagining of that game
peak marsh
Yeah, Lost Skies is in my wishlist. The concept is really interesting, building an island that also serves as a mobile base
Er wait, that was the one with skyships. I'm thinking of Forever Skies I think xD
Er no, Forever Skies is released and that's the one where the ground is poisonous and you have to upgrade your skyship in order to explore the ground below
tepid wadi
Yeah, Forever skies is apparently gearing up for 1.0 sometime soon, so that will be cool
peak marsh
I like the concept of that one too
I wish I could remember which game I'm thinking of. Same kind of idea, sky based survival craft, but you actually take over and pilot these floating islands and you can add to them or claim new islands as you go
timber prism
Lost Skies is good times
peak marsh
Ahh, that's right. I should know that, Pratfall did an Aloft series not long ago
timber prism
More much looking forward to LS vs Dune which I am not a fan of
peak marsh
Dune seems interesting but I'll have to see how PVP is integrated. I know a lot of people like it but I'm not big on the whole Conan experience
Getting murked by a bunch of sweats with top tier armor and weapons while I'm still tying sticks with grass to make a hut isn't my idea of fun these days
vague galleon
I will always pass on PVP survival games
ESPECIALLY the ones where my base can get destroyed while im sleeping or at work.
seems utterly pointless.
timber prism
Dune seems interesting but I'll have to see how PVP is integrated. I know a lot ...
Without spoiling anything I don't think you will have an issue with the pvp system in this game
peak marsh
https://store.steampowered.com/app/269770/Secrets_of_Grindea/ @vague galleon Until you get a new PC just play this xD
Co-op Zelda-like with some RPG character building. It's one of my favorite pick up and play after work games xD
vague galleon
co-op?
vague galleon
https://store.steampowered.com/app/269770/Secrets_of_Grindea/ <@1809578775975034...
is it any better than the joke that was evoland 1 and 2?
with a name like grindea it sounds like a waste of time.
shy bobcat
https://www.ign.com/articles/speedrunners-left-scratching-their-heads-after-new-...
Aaaactually it's because the audio chip is ceramic.
peak marsh
is it any better than the joke that was evoland 1 and 2?
with a name like grinde...
It's more fun grind, not annoying grind. Also optional. Basically every monster in the game drops a card, and every monster card gives you some kind of bonus, like slimes drop a card that makes dropped items gravitate to you. So it's like, fun if you're into 100%ing but you can skip it for the most part and just run through the game
But that's why I like it for an after work game. I can pick it up, shut my brain off and farm enemies for their cards or continue the story, whichever I feel like doing
vague galleon
maybe one day, I just bought a bunch of dusty old relics.
peak marsh
What sort of relics?
vague galleon
RPG books.
peak marsh
Like D&D/Pathfinder type stuff?
vague galleon
Swords and Sorcery (so yes), Blue Rose, other obscure stuff.
i love adding old rpg books to my collection amd that does include a lot of the wild d20 stuff from the 2000s.
i have nearly every first and second edition book of exalted.
no stargate books though....
tranquil cove
Tl:Dr; for reasons no one can explain, old SNES consoles are actually getting fa...
its evolving!
peak marsh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJZBn7l2kYM -Isnt Half Life 3 launching one of the signs of the apocalypse?
peak marsh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9zmMI4Y0r8 -The games market is going to be interesting over the next few years
I mean, me and I'm sure a lot of people here aren't necessarily concerned with physical media going away, but I wouldn't be surprised if they use market conditions as an excuse to raise prices across the board, even on digital downloads
vague galleon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJZBn7l2kYM -Isnt Half Life 3 launching one of t...
yes. it is. no way we're getting HL3.
peak marsh
Yeah, I like Mug but the whole thing sounds like an awful lot of speculation and reaching
vague galleon
I'll believe Halo 3 comes out when Duke Nukem Forever comes out.
peak marsh
Erm, Duke Nukem Forever did come out xD
vague galleon
No, I would have remembered if it did.
you're probably thinking of that leaked abandoned build.
peak marsh
It was a big problem for Dr Pepper xD
vague galleon
it was?!
peak marsh
Yeah. They had a habit of letting their social media team make "bets" on unlikely events. In 2009 they said they'd give everyone in America a free Dr Pepper if Duke Nukem Forever ever released. Little did they know ...
They also said they'd do the same if Axel Rose ever released the album Chinese Democracy
vague galleon
wild
peak marsh
I actually feel bad for the Doshaguma I just hunted. Ran from me, got tag-teamed by a Rathalos and a Rathian in the next area, ran from there, got farted on by a Congalala
peak marsh
Side note, about a month in this controller is an absolute champ. Highly recommend
vague galleon
my xbone controllers still work fine but i definitely should keep those in mind
i bet they wouldnt make me constantly reconnect though.
peak marsh
This one has been literally pick up and play
vague galleon
there was a time when i returned like 4 xbone controllers to walmart, because they wouldnt work with the cable I had to connect to my PC.
so i got a power A instead, and it lasted maybe 3 months.
peak marsh
Oh yeah, Power A is (mostly) trash
vague galleon
eventually i bought a bluetooth connector for my xbone controllers.
power A might be worse than mad catz
peak marsh
Their low end stuff is right there with em
They make some "okay" mid tier stuff for phones and tablets but for the price you could just get an 8bitdo or Xbone
The 8bitdo has been great though. It's always charged because of the dock and it just works. Battery life supposedly lasts 11 hours but I'm rarely ever playing that long these days
Er my bad, it's 23 hours ._.
vague galleon
ive heard it's not good to leave things on their chargers all the time and you should let batteries die before charging them again.
peak marsh
Eh, it very much depends. Most modern lithium batteries are the opposite. You should never let them completely drain because it shortens the life of the battery
But with the controller and most other modern devices, they'll stop accepting a charge once they're at 100%
So even though it's on the dock, it's just maintaining a full battery, it's not actively charging
vague galleon
ya, i usally put my phone on the charger when i get home from work, which is usually at 40% and take it off before i go to bed.
i think it used to last 2 days but its 4 years old now. or more.
peak marsh
Phones are another good example. You can leave them on the charger and they'll just stop charging once they hit full
vague galleon
i hate this thing but it's lasted longer than any other phone ive had.
because i went for the 1000 dollar one instead of the usually 300 dollar one i guess.
peak marsh
Mine is about due for an upgrade, but I need to buy it outright because I don't do contracts any more
I've been screwed over in some respect or another by most of the major carriers, so I said forget it and started buying my own phones and doing pay as you go
vague galleon
i considered buying an S9 on ebay and seeing if I can use it with my plan. XD
peak marsh
Whether it was my bill always being higher than it was supposed to be, insurance that didn't get honored even though I'd been paying for it for multiple years, so on and so on
If you get an unlocked phone it's just a matter of popping in your SIM card
Amazon has really good deals on unlocked refurbished phones
vague galleon
but i pay 30 bucks a month for my share of a family plan with AT&T so i stick with that.
peak marsh
I mean, I pay 30 a month too xD
The only catch is once every few years I have to buy a new phone
vague galleon
thats just cause modern technology sucks.
peak marsh
Yeah, phones especially are a racket. They're literally designed to go obsolete faster than any other piece of tech
timber prism
Side note, about a month in this controller is an absolute champ. Highly recomme...
Which one is this? I really enjoy my Dualsense controllers. Own three of them and all work well.
timber prism
can you plug this in to make it hardwired?
or is it just fully wireless with a docking station?
peak marsh
Feels like an Xbox but with a charging dock and back paddles. And software that can configure everything from trigger sensitivity to button configs to analog dead zones
It's 2.4, Bluetooth, or wired
peak marsh
With the back paddles you can also set up macros or 1 touch button combinations
I haven't felt a need yet but I could see it with some games
I mainly got it for the whole wireless rechargeable with a dock situation
I like that one because it's multifunctional. Pc with wired or 2.4 plus it can do android or switch with BT
peak marsh
This is actually really exciting for the future of handheld PC gaming. The "war on windows" headline is a little dramatic but other companies being able to use SteamOS natively is kind of awesome
wet osprey
Any eta on Water update?
peak marsh
Apparently they're making SteamOS available for PC also. I'm kind of tempted depending on how the rollout goes
honest valley
Apparently they're making SteamOS available for PC also. I'm kind of tempted dep...
id be willing to use it instead of win11
especially if it can do everything windows can but without the stupid stuff
vague galleon
oh thatd be amazing.
peak marsh
Exactly. Most of what I do on my PC these days is either on chrome or through steam anyhow, if I can get rid of the bloat and have something more streamlined I'd be all for it
My only concerns are compatibility with certain programs and with various peripherals. That's the one benefit of windows, drivers for pretty much everything is automatic
But like, if all my devices will work and I can still browse/access email/etc and use things like HW Monitor, that's effectively all I need really outside of gaming
vague galleon
ya. i dont do much besides steam, internet, and vlc player.
maybe some video editing software eventually but thats about it.
peak marsh
lol. Always pay attention to the domain regardless of what the rest of the link says
The part next to ".com" is where you're actually going
tranquil cove
lol. Always pay attention to the domain regardless of what the rest of the link ...
which reminds me to remove the link
just in case anyone somehow still goes there lol
sonic pumice
hollow star
I would have gone with a "try again never" :p
peak marsh
Tl;Dr: Square contracted a studio for a Front Mission project, then cancelled the project, and is now suing the studio for using the materials created during the process to make an unrelated but similar game
I hate these kinds of lawsuits because now you have all that work that they're just supposed to delete? On the grounds that they (Square) paid for the work so the code belongs to them
Imho they should get the same end user rights we do. You paid for a license to that code and until it has your IP on it, there's no ownership xD
Cancelled the project? Okay, we won't put your IP on it but also we can use the work as we see fit as an independent studio
tepid wadi
Ehhhh... that's a scenario that I'm kind of with Square on tbh. If you contract something, you own what was contracted. Even if you decide not to release it.
The contractor shouldn't have even retained the work after the project ended. All of it should've gone to square and then been deleted from the agency
peak marsh
Fair enough, and that may just be my perspective from not knowing enough about how the sausage gets made
tepid wadi
Yeah, it's kind of interesting. It depends on what their contracts looked like, but I can't imagine that they didn't include clauses about not being able to use the work for other projects. Assets, code, etc, that's standard contract stuff.
Now, IDEAS can't be protected like that, so if they rebuilt the whole thing from scratch because they thought the canceled project was a good idea, then they'll probably win out. But they'll have had to be SUPER careful about not using any assets, code, etc that were part of the contracted project.
And they'll likely have to prove without a doubt that they didn't use any of the contracted material. If they're smart, they'll have appropriately prepared to be able to make that case. But who knows