Playing the closed beta for Once human is turning out to be more fun than should be allowed.
#other-games
fading sonnet
faint plover
Anyone her interested in Skribblio?
tranquil cove
is the battle at 1:17 simulating fps drop?
LOL
" Youtube sucks so bad lately that it took me a moment to realise that the framerate was a joke " this as well
sly dawn
I wish I could get into DD2
rustic nexus
https://youtu.be/9lwSXSOzRjk?si=u9rcR_QtPVDL4T7h
Carbot animations does some hilarious videos on YouTube.🤣
tepid wadi
Their BG3 series is excellent
reef bobcat
0
indigo hearth
Darkest Dungeon?
sly dawn
Their BG3 series is excellent
As good as their WoW ones?
tepid wadi
I don't think I've seen their wow ones, but 🤷♀️
warm flameBOT
untold lynx
https://youtu.be/DUyk6D5rgcE?si=ydw_2QEKMy7KdVwA
cautiously interested
indigo hearth
that looks awesome
tranquil cove
what kind of teaser trailer is that
lol terrible
told me nothing, except that i wish i could play guns of icarus
finite saffron
Oh man I wish guns of icarus had found more mainstream success
It was ahead of its time tbh, sea of thieves 10 years before sea of thieves came out
tranquil cove
yeah i loved guns of icarus
finite saffron
I want to see a studio try to tackle the concept with a more modern engine, because man it was such a fun concept
tranquil cove
then they also kept getting ddossed into oblivion
like i dont understand why, i dont really see other games getting negatively attacked like that
and they didn't seem like a bad dev team
finite saffron
I mean it was extremely janky too tbh, very unintuitive gameplay, janky engine, and overall just probably wasn't very appealing to people who weren't totally in love with the concept.
And yeah they weren't bad devs at all, DDOS attacks were honestly just much harder to deal with back then, especially if their server infrastructure wasn't setup to protect from that sorta thing (probably wasn't, they were a small team).
Was a great concept, just honestly probably too ambitious for a team of that size.
finite saffron
It functioned, but it had some things that were fairly unintuitive I think. Especially a lot of the methods to be competitive were really confusing to new players, so the skill gap was pretty massive.
Also I think a lot of people wanted to be able to board other ships and the engine couldn't allow that sorta thing
tranquil cove
i dunno i think people are just bad players, i've played far worse skill gap games, and i was still one of the best players even in those games.
ships were too small to board tbh
they were just 4 man crews, would make no sense even from a tactical position to board them
like i was apart of the community, everyone i played with or talked to didn't mention boarding
and usually i complain a lot/criticize games, i didn't even think of that one to complain about
lol
this was before sea of thieves, sea of thieves has boarding right?
never played it
finite saffron
i dunno i think people are just bad players, i've played far worse skill gap gam...
It wasn't that the game was like, impossibly hard, I think it's that the game attracted a very casual crowd, and it was very confusing and hard for those people.
Like it wasn't an esports type of game, but the skill ceiling was pretty high, so it ended up just being frustrating for the casual crowd.
The loadouts especially, choosing the wrong class setup (and the loadouts for each) could completely make or break whether or not you were competitive at all, and it really wasn't very clear to new players what the optimal setups were or why they were good.
Veteran players could teach them, but if a game relies on that to succeed it will inevitably probably not find a mainstream audience.
tranquil cove
It wasn't that the game was like, impossibly hard, I think it's that the game at...
yeah i agree, lots of casual players
finite saffron
And btw I loved the game, just saying why it wasn't popular. The boarding thing for example was a very common topic in reviews, but yeah the community that loved the game didn't care.
And yeah SoT has boarding, but more importantly it's EXTREMELY intuitive. Like, to the point where you could hand that game to someone who has never played a videogame before and they can probably figure out what to do
tranquil cove
yeah i wonder in what ways its different
finite saffron
No matter what loadout you choose in SoT you will be relatively competitive, and the repairing, piloting, and other mechanics are all super intuitively designed
tranquil cove
do you remember if guns had class selections?
i can't remember
i vaguely remember selecting pilot maybe?
finite saffron
It just cuts out a lot of the "gamey" things from the game in a really clever way, most of what you do is completely in-universe with zero UI elements. Like when your ship is damaged, a hole appears in the hole that you physically patch up with a wooden plank. You physically load the cannons, you physically move the sails and turn the wheel.
So even if you aren't familiar with gaming tropes, you can intuitively figure the game out just with real world logic. Pretty clever tbh.
tranquil cove
or did the class selections come later
finite saffron
i vaguely remember selecting pilot maybe?
Yeah there was pilot, gunner, and engineer, and then equipment/ability loadout slots in each, as well as ship selections, and each ship had its own loadouts slots for weapons with small, medium, and heavy weapon types.
Just too many options for noobs tbh, overwhelming and not intuitive.
tranquil cove
i think guns allowed everyone to do everything despite class selection just without a bonus maybe
because pretty sure as a pilot i could still run around repairing stuff
and maybe that's where it got confusing for people
and the different ship load outs too
finite saffron
Every class could do everything, but you'd be much worse at the other roles. Like you only got one repair tool as the non-engie classes, and you needed 2 repair tools minimum to optimally repair things. So for example you wouldn't be able to extinguish fires and repair a broken thing as the same time as a pilot
tranquil cove
tbh it wasn't that complex, you read a wiki for 10 minutes and you could destroy
but maybe back then it was too much too ask
games today, demand more from players
finite saffron
Which I noticed was the biggest flaw noobs had, you pretty much always needed 2 engineers, but noobs never wanted to play that class because it was boring lol
finite saffron
tbh it wasn't that complex, you read a wiki for 10 minutes and you could destroy
Yeah it's mostly the type of game/crowd it attracted I think, nobody wanted to take it seriously they just wanted to mess around piloting a ship with their buddies and shoot stuff, but the game kinda wanted you to take it seriously.
tranquil cove
probably needed better match making, and incentives
finite saffron
And that's where SoT found mass success, if anything SoT DOESN'T want you to take it seriously and you probably won't have as good of a time if you do lol
tepid wadi
A similar game that also died was World's Adrift. Had a bunch of neat ideas and cool shipbuilding and stuff, but ultimately didn't end up coming out. I understand the studio is taking the idea and evolving it into a co-op game though, which could be cool.
timber prism
A similar game that also died was World's Adrift. Had a bunch of neat ideas and ...
Fun game. I'm excited for their new game Lost Skies even though its really early on for it
tepid wadi
Yeah, I think part of the reason why worlds adrift fell apart was because it was so aimless. Hopefully Lost Skies has a bit more direction to it.
But I loved the island creator
timber prism
i really loved the grappling hook and swinging around haha
Im hoping to get into the tests that have been going on
tranquil cove
not many games do grappling hook for some reason
last time i enjoyed a good grappling hook
was jedi knight dark forces 2, grappling hook mod, pvp with 8 players
timber prism
those were fun games
tranquil cove
we'd grapple around custom maps, and shoot rocket launchers
timber prism
i was a huge fan of Jedi Academy online duels
tranquil cove
this was before all the 'arena' games
timber prism
the skill ceiling was pretty huge in those games
tranquil cove
lol they still have the grappling hook mod, spork
anyway my point of this old gaming story
is that grappling hooks in any game are fire
so much fun
vague galleon
MAN. i missed a guns of icarus convo. i barely played it due to lack of friends but i thought it was really cool!
untold lynx
I played it with a colleague on lunch breaks, we once dropped on a server where a couple of guys were actually roleplaying as captain and first mate, it was hilarious, loved every second of it
I was so sad when the remake was pve only
vague galleon
how many were there. i remeber two. the second had way more indepth styff like battlecfor territories
lilac adder
Honestly...this looks kind of good. I'm tempted to buy 😄
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1993450/Yet_Another_Fantasy_Title_YAFT/
misty arch
a month away
https://youtu.be/HtTezuIslWo?si=t9TYBLycEkT7oWxo
vague galleon
i gotta pass on remant 2. I was playing it with one friend after an experienced friend stopping playing it with me/us after talking me into buying it, and we got to this point where our levels weren't balanced right and it set the area to too high a challenge for our level and we Could. Not. Beat. The. Swarm.
quaint cosmos
Remnant 2 has a new DLC coming out on April 23, 2024. If you bought the Ultimate edition, the DLC is free. For everyone else, it's $10. (posted this in the wrong channel)
tawny trellis
hardy turtle
So looks like nightingale is gonna work on the resource staking that they obliterated last patch.
lilac adder
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046920062923182121/1228097560980230154/2...
what game is this?
candid quiver
what game is this?
Tower Unite. Its a map im building in it from scratch (i.e its all an empty plane, set shapes and items and textures and build from nothing)
Its the best building ever so its the only game i build in much any ^^
lilac adder
Tower Unite. Its a map im building in it from scratch (i.e its all an empty plan...
wow i like the concept. cool. never heard of this
candid quiver
Its a game that came out of a popular mod for gmod 'tower',
Hard to describe but the game is alot of things,
My fave deffo making maps ^^
tawny trellis
next badger
If anyone @here is interested, I have a few extra keys for Racing Games on Steam. Games are Art of Rally, Inertial Drift and Circuit Superstars. Let me know if you'd like one. 🙂
tawny trellis
https://youtube.com/shorts/wRJ5pMSGfQ0?feature=share PLS klick my Youtube Channel for klicks^^
miauuu^^
outer reef
candid quiver
candid quiver
Now i know its a computer game, and has mild violence.
Basically spoiled the game! ^^
But Yejj silksong ^^
tepid wadi
That game is looking pretty sick
timber prism
Yup!! Can't wait! Big fan of Ori and the Blind Forest so i can't wait to see how this game turns out
tranquil cove
game trailers are always so useless
lol need a gameplay video
90% of game trailers don't even show you footage of the game, it's just animated cut scenes either from the game, or worse, just made for the trailer.
LOL
the game opens up with you washed up on a beach
whyyyy
why always the same trope
wasn't i making fun of that when i said how i'd build my own game 😄
need custom hero biography "i enjoy long walks on the beach"
pretty sure most rpgs begin in prison or a beach
BG3 prison on a mindflayer ship basically
but at least they tried
probably has become rare that the adventure starts at the NPCs home, and only if the plan is to destroy the home and kill their family off
tranquil cove
back when games were good
Planescape: Torment 's story begins when the Nameless One wakes up in a mortuary. He is immediately approached by a floating skull, Morte, who offers advice
though one could argue.... a coffin is a prison, dang.
timber prism
game trailers are always so useless
what are you even on? That trailer was awesome
glimpse of multiple weapons, tone of the game, and art style
tranquil cove
my point is all game trailers are useless, wasn't an attack on that specific game or anything, it told me nothing about the game
well i'm someone who enjoys art as bad rimworld, and duke nukem 3d
so graphic quality isn't that important to me
my threshold for pretty graphics is lower, i can't play like... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_I:_The_First_Age_of_Darkness this level of graphics i can't do.
timber prism
from that trailer you learned that the the King has died so most likely there is going to be some politcal battle to take over the throne and there is some plague that is corrupting people and spreading
tranquil cove
which is why i could never get into dwarf fortress since it's ascii art
timber prism
gameplay wise, it showed that there is multiple weapons, possible classes, and also gathering
tranquil cove
from that trailer you learned that the the King has died so most likely there is...
my story threshold in games is low, once you played 350 games, and seen thousands of movies, it's all similar and so it's probably not a bad story, and hence i don't care about story because i am fine usually with whatever people do.
but sure there are games with better lore and world creation than others
tranquil cove
gameplay wise, it showed that there is multiple weapons, possible classes, and a...
eh i need a gameplay trailer, that's what i need, i want don't want a persons commentary, or animated cut scenes from the game, which to me is basically propaganda or marketing ploy, i just want to see the person load the game, make a character, and play the intro.
and that tells me everything i need to know
like even this video is bad
timber prism
that is quite the opinion
tranquil cove
this video is bad too
because its some guy talking for 20 minutes
he's talk about his experience, rather than providing me the experience of watching him play the game - so it's not a gameplay video
but it's still better than any steam trailer for a game
like these are game breakdown videos basically
but imo they still aren't as good as just watching someones first playthrough of a game with the persons first reactions
and usually in first 10 minutes if i can't wait to play the game then i know it's a game for me
the trailer doesn't give me that feeling
of wanting to play it
timber prism
i listed to like 2 minutes of Force Gaming's video and it gives more info than you would find of them playing 2 minutes of going through character creation and starting a game
tranquil cove
yeah it does, but it's missing something, that basically only playing a demo yourself would give, or watching someone else play it
and since i hate installing and playing demos
the second best thing is watching someone else do it for me
lol
timber prism
what is it missing?
tranquil cove
he's explaining the game in worlds while cut scening gameplay footage out of order
it's missing the whole experience of the game i guess
timber prism
so what?
tranquil cove
the only reason i got enshrouded was because i saw someone's playthrough of their first 30 minutes, wasn't the trailer, wasn't my friend begging me to get it, it wasn't the positive reviews.
timber prism
what do you mean? he explained its like a top down action rpg similar to dark soul/metroidvania where you unlock areas that interconnect with areas you previously been in with active dodging, circling around opponents
tranquil cove
i saw someone playing, and i felt inside, i want to experience this, this looks fun etc.
i gotta say though, not a fan of mr. candle hat
lol like why?
timber prism
the trailer doesn't give me that feeling
gotcha.. to each their own
finite saffron
Generally speaking if devs give creators early looks, they won't let those creators just upload 30 minutes of uncut footage of their games intro or something lol
They're looking for a review/promo that actually goes over the game as a whole
timber prism
i typically like trailers that give me a sense of the world, a little bit of gameplay, and art style to get me hooked into being interested in a game
finite saffron
I really like Force's content, he's very objective and gives pretty good reviews, while also being one of the few gaming content creators I know of that's actually positive and optimistic. Most gaming reviewers are incredibly cynical and it's kind of exhausting. He clearly loves games though
tranquil cove
more of a preference is that the game is too dark for me too. i love dark, but i love it more when there is high contrast between locations, so beautiful places that are peaceful and colourful and bright, and then contrasted by dark deadly looking environments in other areas... this actually makes me more fearful of dark environments, and changes my mood while playing, if it's always dark, i will desensitize to it quickly and get bored of it quickly too.
timber prism
Yeah, if a guy is giving an opinion on his 15 hours summarized into 19 minutes.. i dont see how thats a bad video if he isn't spending 15 of his 20 minutes playing the first 15 minutes of a game
i rather get info on the actual game
and how they felt playing it
tranquil cove
bummer because the art style is beautiful, too bad they had to make the whole world a crappy place (for the character/people in it) instead of more nuanced.
timber prism
boss fights look fun too
tranquil cove
the boss fights look good yeah
finite saffron
Eh I mean honestly aesthetic comes in waves in all media, not just the games industry. I remember when people complained that every game was cartoony and colorful and they wanted games that were more grounded and realistic lol
timber prism
yeah
finite saffron
Right now games that are very dark/apocalyptical/dystopian are quite trendy, but honestly the industry now has more diversity than it ever has
timber prism
also like that playthroughs are randomized in this depending on what loot you find
weapons can have different abilities on them it seems
so two people going through the same area can be fighting completely different depending on what items they found/dropped by rng
tranquil cove
I really like Force's content, he's very objective and gives pretty good reviews...
i think probably as an actual critic one would need to make a list of things they like/dislike, and then hash out which of the things they dislike are preference based, but actually don't make it a worse game. so yeah, a lot of the more negative critics probably don't do that, they want the game to be something else entirely.
i think maybe on some level having more contrast between environments would help the darker environment be more scary, depending how you did it, and you could still have a majority of dark places in the game, rather than 100% all dark.. and there is also that whole idea of peaceful looking places actually being more horrifying, which plays around with players expectations of environments too.. but even though it would affect the game, i think it's still just a preference of mine. similar to how i wish RPGs stopped starting heroes off on beaches.
so i couldn't actually claim not doing this makes the game bad or anything
the 100% dark look reminds me of castlevania really
finite saffron
Oh he's very critical of games, just not cynical about them
Like he'll point out flaws, but doesn't say the game is doomed because of them or the game is terrible because of small issues, which many critics are overdramatic about
If anything he's too optimistic about how small of an issue things are, but I kinda like him for that lol
It's a breath of fresh air from creators who are doom and gloom about a game day one of its launch because of balance issues or something
neon sleet
So I had the Earth Defence Force itch again.
Only this time I wondered if Helldivers II could scratch that itch.
-6 airstrikes later-
sips tea
"Ehyep. 'at'l do."
for dehmocracy and because it's damn fun. (Shout-out to Max0r for warning me about the chainsaw guys. Warning was well advised.)
finite saffron
Yeah HD2 is a fantastic game
rustic nexus
I wish there was 10 person squads, that would be so much more fun.
elfin shale
Before and after I removed the 60fps on my system:
dusk bluff
What am I looking at? They look exactly the same besides the dude in the middle is different.
elfin shale
It's the FFXIV Dawntrail benchmark. The number in the bottom left is the 'score'.
dusk bluff
Score for what though
elfin shale
For the benchmark. I assume it's basically the total amount of frames generated over the course of the scenes that they render.
dusk bluff
Is extremely high supposed to look better?
elfin shale
No. It's the same visual settings.
dusk bluff
I'm still confused the first picture is locked to 60 fps and the second is unlocked?
elfin shale
Yeah. I usually run a 60fps cap on my frame rate to keep hardware temperatures lower.
And I got a bit confused with the initial capped run only being graded as 'high' when my PC specs surpass the updated 'recommended' requirements.
dusk bluff
Ahhh gotcha. Get some noctua fans and you won't have to worry about temps.
elfin shale
I don't necessarily need to worry about the temperatures as is, but I like keeping things on the lower end for longevity.
dusk bluff
I sit around 50-60 degrees tops even on triple A games
elfin shale
And, being in Australia during summer without AC in the room my PC's in puts the ambient temperature up. Lol.
dusk bluff
The way I see it by the time my PC shits the bed it will be old enough to update anyways
They make hardware purposely obsolete by a certain time so longevity isn't an issue for me.
elfin shale
I still found it somewhat amusing that uncapping my frame rate more than doubled my score for the benchmark though.
dusk bluff
Yeah I don't get what the benchmark is really doing if it's just based off of fps lol
elfin shale
It gives people a chance to see whether their current hardware can run the new graphics that they are implementing.
I didn't really worry about it, but decided to test anyway to see the new visuals.
dusk bluff
Is the new expac any good? I lost interest a few ago haha
elfin shale
The new expansion is coming in June, I believe.
dusk bluff
Never played it for the graphics that's for sure since it's pretty old at this point.
elfin shale
One of the major factors is that they are doing a graphics upgrade though.
It's not quite as... Immediately evident as when WoW did their upgrade.
dusk bluff
Wow upgrade was pretty bad too though
Everyone was like OMG it's so good! And I was like have you played a game in the last 5 years? Lol
elfin shale
But it's updating most of the visuals in the game to have higher fidelity.
And adding stuff like subsurface scattering to skin textures.
dusk bluff
I see it, so they are just retextures not a graphics overall
dusk bluff
Engine is probably too old at this point to do a thing but retextures but it definitely is an improvement!
elfin shale
They are making small edits to the character models etc.
But they want to mostly retain the existing visual design aesthetic.
dusk bluff
You also don't want graphics in an MMO to be too good or you lock a lot of the player base out
elfin shale
Yeah. They are probably already locking out some of their players seeing as they've updated the minimum requirements.
Which sucks, but they likely have at least some level of knowledge of the overall hardware their playerbase has.
dusk bluff
They for sure know
That's why league of legends was so popular could play it on a potato
Last time I players ff14 this dude added me and would give me the best gear he could buy or craft for my level everyday
100% sure it was because I was a cat girl in revealing clothes lol
timber prism
It's the FFXIV Dawntrail benchmark. The number in the bottom left is the 'score'...
what settings?
this was mine
elfin shale
I just used the default 'high' settings.
elfin shale
But I'd imagine my own results on max settings wouldn't be too different.
I have an i9-9900 and 3080
I do like that we're getting FSR and DLSS support for the game though.
elfin shale
The new visuals overall are cool. There's more to it than just character visuals.
This is one of the cooler things I've seen so far.
timber prism
But I'd imagine my own results on max settings wouldn't be too different.
my score putting it on your settings
elfin shale
Impressive.
timber prism
i would probably try yours again on FSR and it would probably bump up to 21000 as well
i hear FSR is doing much better than DLSS
elfin shale
I prefer DLSS 'cause it's more visually consistent.
FSR can get better fps though.
Though it can depend on the implementation of both and the specific game/engine.
timber prism
does the game utilize stuff only avail on 4xxx series?
elfin shale
No idea.
timber prism
i haven't looked too deep into it
i was thinking of starting up again for Dawntrail
elfin shale
Frame generation being exclusive to 40 series is kind of stupid though.
timber prism
my gf wants me too cuz i ditched her back after Endwalker XD
elfin shale
But I guess they want that marketing push to get people to shell out money.
I do like the look of the new class, but I've always loved the idea of two swords becoming a swordstaff.
timber prism
yah!
im gonna probably play a Viper
i was a Ninja for shadowbringers
i usually pick one class to play per xpac
elfin shale
I love tanking in that game, so I'll probably still play those jobs, but Viper may win me over. Who knows?
Depends on how it functions as a class.
timber prism
tanking is fun!
i was a pally for Heavensward and Dark Knight for Stormblood
Dragoon was also Stormblood
I also wanted to check out Summoner's revamp
i played Summoner when ARR came out and was my server first class when I used to do that progression
but haven't touched it since
tepid wadi
I powerleveled a Pally to play with friends and it made me hate the game, it was sooo boring to tank
elfin shale
Paladin is kind of the most boring tank. Lol.
I had the least fun levelling Paladin of the four tanks.
dusk bluff
I love tanking in that game, so I'll probably still play those jobs, but Viper m...
I do miss the lalafell tanks it's hilarious. I had one guy who had a macro when he hit the big wall ability that said " We are building a wall and "insert boss name here" is going to pay for it!"
timber prism
lala are the best https://imgur.com/a/Z2hxAuE
delicate ember
misty arch
steam FPS fest is running right now
https://www.pcgamer.com/software/the-best-free-demos-to-play-now-in-the-steam-fps-fest/
tranquil cove
i dont know why they chose to add building in fallout 4
it has to be the trashiest build system of all games i ever played
they added foundations of buildings that are off sizes from the foundations they provide in the game and then put huge bushes around those in game foundations so you can't cover them up with the build foundations even, both because of size, and because bushes are in the way
they couldn't use the same metric/measurements like wtf.
and it's all free placement, the snapping is none existent.
plus who wants to build ugly buildings with holes in them
worst idea ever
the game also feels really old now, they need a fallout 5
tepid wadi
I mostly hated that you can't make something that looks nice. All the building designs look like you picked up a bunch of trash and threw it into a wall shape.
Call me vain, but if I'm going to build a giant complex, I want to not get tetanus when I lean on the wall.
tranquil cove
let me explain in paint what i mean
timber prism
Twitter
tepid wadi
I know what you mean, I played a lot of that game, heh
Hades 2 looks good, but I think I'm more excited for No Rest for the Wicked
tranquil cove
here they give you a pre-existing plot/structure
that you deconstruct, because it's in shambles, and now you just have the foundation
then ALL the building blocks they provide for flooring, dont FILL the same area (example, in green, the green blocks dont fill the area of the black foundation perfectly).
and if you try and cover up the pre-existing foundation, there are brown bushes on the side that you cant remove, and block placement or otherwise they end up half inside your structure and half out.
timber prism
Hades 2 looks good, but I think I'm more excited for No Rest for the Wicked
i didnt even think of comparing of them as the same
i can't decide which one im more excited for haha
probably Windblown > No Rest for the Wicked > Hades 2
tranquil cove
plus fallout 4 runs in 1920 resolution.
timber prism
I gotta look more into No Rest but i thought it was more of a action rpg dark souls type game rather than a roguelite like Windblown and Hades
tranquil cove
that was a good resolution in 2012
they need a new fallout game
plus i never liked that 5 minutes into the game you could find power armor
i think my old playthrough has like 10 power armors
chill with the power armor
timber prism
i thought you said graphics weren't important to you XD
tranquil cove
i thought you said graphics weren't important to you XD
yeah what bothers me is i can't play windowed mode
having a game stuck at 1920 res while im 2556 native is distracting
most modern games you can maximize the window so its windowed mode still but fits your whole screen
for fallout 4, you can't even mode the window, its stuck in top left corner
finite saffron
i dont know why they chose to add building in fallout 4
Well as the case with every feature bathesda has ever implemented, modding saves it and makes it fun
but yeah the stock building is extremely janky
tranquil cove
modding disables achievements
becuase the devs are terrible people
like it's none of their concern how people get their achievements, they bought the game
though i know there's a mod to disable the disabling of achievements, but still.
finite saffron
Yeah that's mostly just an odd thing for them to add, since cheating steam achievements is incredibly easy
tranquil cove
most people who mod do it for aesthetic reasons, not to cheat the achievement system anyway
anyway there are lots of little gripes why i want a new fallout, but i also just want a new one, it would be better in 2024, i'd imagine.
i think they wasted their time with fallout 76
probably proven by the metrics, like is that even as popular as elder scrolls online, both were a waste of time, rather than giving players a good single player sequel
i don't mind if they do both, but they chose to go MMO route only
and MMOs largely suck
tepid wadi
I mean it's the same problem as ESO/Skyrim. People were like "I want skyrim, but multiplayer" and they were like "An MMO, cool" when what people actually wanted was a small group multiplayer RPG.
tranquil cove
yeah coop i can see being fun
also because a coop game can be entirely single player
timber prism
though i know there's a mod to disable the disabling of achievements, but still.
Yeah I think this is a thing as well on nexus mods
I thought i wanted a new fallout and elder scrolls up until I played Starfield
tranquil cove
though they are saying this
Fallout 76' has broken the record number of Steam players due to success of the TV show. The Prime Video TV adaptation of the video game has achieved great success since its release.
but the truth is all those players just want a new single player game 😄
timber prism
I heard 76 got better than it was at launch
tranquil cove
it's still a smallish player base, like i think no mans sky has 12k average without a tv show
elder scrolls online has 22k players, no mans sky is 8k average, 19k peak (probably due to their recent updates)
oh i see why there are trees in the tv show
fallout 76 has trees all over
might as well be a utopia now.
look how many fall trees, and that bus looks brand new
why is this guy walking he can just drive that brand new bus 😛
a good fallout MMO, would have had everyone emerging from different vaults in different locations
i bet they didn't even do that much 😄
and a ghoul faction
fallout MMO, where you run a vault, and its your communities choice to open doors or not.
imagine you get a community/vault that refuses to open door for the 5 years the MMO is running
timber prism
they would just get surrounded by people in OP gear by the time they opened it up if they ever XD
tranquil cove
they would just get surrounded by people in OP gear by the time they opened it u...
yeah, probably would allow opening it up, to travel wasteland to bring back supplies
similar to fallout shelter game
timber prism
people would wait for them to open it up and then raid them and take it over
tranquil cove
happens in the games too, lots of vaults raided
tranquil cove
probably they could have made mechanics, like the original vault dwellers become wasteland faction
and then they can camp the vault and re-take it
vaults could have mounted guns, and defenses you can build etc.
timber prism
just organize your faction to have 24 hour coverage to make sure the other faction couldn't progress
elfin shale
a good fallout MMO, would have had everyone emerging from different vaults in di...
The amount of work required to do that simply isn't worth it. Almost every MMO has all players on the same 'critical path'.
Lol.
neon sleet
Man, these difficult Helldiver 2 missions feel like DDR.
⬇️ ▶️ ⬆️ ▶️ 🦅
tranquil cove
The amount of work required to do that simply isn't worth it. Almost every MMO h...
so a single player game
that's one of my big points about MMOs, 90% of them are single player game experiences, and they just throw 22k other people doing single player games with you.
elfin shale
Every successful MMO has the 'story' be the same for every player. Lol.
The MMO part of it comes from your interactions with other players outside of the story.
tranquil cove
so a chat room is the MMO part
elfin shale
Which includes the group content which is usually the end game 'pinnacle' content.
tranquil cove
because you can't even RP well in most MMOs since the text is disconnected from character other than a name in a UI text box.
don't get me started on how the same MMO model used in the last 20 years is horrendous garbage
Most MMOs have you single playering until you are level 60 before you can do that co-op content too.
the quest grind is a big problem in MMOs
elfin shale
Good MMOs allow you to play the majority of the story content alongside your friends.
SWTOR did that in an interesting way, even if the game wasn't amazing.
But the story is almost always going to be focused on 'you're the hero/chosen one'
With your character being the protagonist.
tranquil cove
never played SWOTR, it was monthly subscription, so I stayed away from it. But, I think it had a quest grind. There's a lot of problems with quest grind, fetch quests, and just grinding levels before you can play with other people usually. The only MMO I saw marginally succeed in getting people to play with each other was Dungeons and Dragons Online, because you needed 6 people to do anything and usually you needed specific classes. I heard starwars Galaxies was good, but then it died.
but DDO was more like a coop than an MMO
elfin shale
SWTOR might actually be an MMO you may enjoy, and you can play it free now.
tranquil cove
it was basically a coop game in an MMO environment.
elfin shale
There's a different story for each of the 8 starter classes.
tranquil cove
most MMOs alternatively are single player games, you can group up, but majority of players don't.
elfin shale
And it's fully voice acted with proper BioWare cutscenes.
If you're playing alongside a friend, there's certain quests which you kind of have to do solo 'cause they are critical for your class story.
But if you're doing the side quests/planetery storylines.
You actually have dialogue choices with a dice roll to see which character's response is the one shown in the cutscene.
Even most of the dungeons in the game have a few dialogue choices.
It's an MMORPG that puts the RP and story at the forefront.
elfin shale
never played SWOTR, it was monthly subscription, so I stayed away from it. But, ...
Star Wars Galaxies was great because of the way they had 'classes' that were specifically for crafting etc.
So it forced you to interact with other players in order to acquire a lot of the best items in the game.
Or in order to get transmog stuff.
You also had an entertainer 'class' that would provided timed buffs along with a barber service. Lmao.
tepid wadi
I could talk for a long time about MMO stuff and design theory and everything, but to not be too wordy: I think a new MMO is going to be a big success when they manage to create multiple gameplay loops that require socialization between players to create dynamic situations. Too many have a goal of just having a core gameplay loop but nothing else substantial for players to do and work on.
Look at New World, once you got to endgame there was effectively like one thing to do and everything else just filtered into that one thing. They have to create an environment where there is a ton to do and a ton of socialization and there isn't just one "direct best" outcome that you're grinding for.
In general, companies need to stop being afraid to let players miss things and block them from doing things. When you expect everyone to be able to do everything, you get a watered down, boring experience that means nothing is special.
elfin shale
Final Fantasy XIV is an example of a good MMO with varied endgame options, but it is admittedly a very solo friendly MMO outside of group content as well.
You have stuff like collecting mounts/minions. Achievement hunting etc.
On top of the typical MMO 'end game' stuff like, crafting, raids etc.
They also have some fun activities like treasure maps which are not difficult content, but are kind of annoying 'cause they are RNG. Lmao.
tepid wadi
Yeah, XIV is a really good MMO for the types of players that enjoy it. But it's also pretty old at this point. A new (successful) MMO is going to have to push the boundaries on gameplay to make a better, more immersive experience. And I think that's going to be creating ways for people to engage with the world that can't simply be patched into older MMOs. It's going to have to be a complete shift in the way that you play.
And I think that's going to be central to social systems that make you engage with others, even in minor ways. Tradecrafts that work together, ways that you can assist one another while out adventuring, dynamic emergent experiences that you can't find in other games, etc. It's going to be a lot of work to make a game that not only creates such a new experience, but also makes it good and fun
elfin shale
Most new MMOs are doomed from the start because MMO players have a sunk-cost fallacy with their existing 'main' MMO.
They'll try a new MMO but because it doesn't have 10-15 years worth of content to play through, they burn through what's there and just... Abandon the new MMO to go back to what's familiar to them.
timber prism
Fallout 76' has broken the record number of Steam players due to success of the ...
Oh.. i realized why the pop count went up so much... Amazon Prime Gaming is giving the game away for free haha
tranquil cove
Yeah, XIV is a really good MMO for the types of players that enjoy it. But it's ...
my big issue with mmo, well is a lot of things: you can get too grindy with skill grind, but it's overall better than quest grinding, any sort of character levels = bad, any sort of system that prioritizes items over skill = bad (so all of WOW), class systems that limit freedom (ie only rough/general classes should exist, or otherwise so many classes you have ultimate freedom like dnd - TLDR is that multiclassing is awesome). mmo's need to be open world, procedural generation is overall better than art crafted levels, but the procedural gen needs to be extremely advanced, probably a bit more advanced than what we have now and i think instances aren't good. mmos, also need to move away from action RPG fighting, I'd like to aim my attacks more like the game chivalry.
Anyway biggest problem with MMO is making a level 1 character do a level where they partake in a war against orcs, by level 20, they are at an orc seige camp, and level 40 the war is over and humans won. Then a level 60 character can walk into that level 20 seige area and see orcs still at war... like no... you just ruined suspension of belief for the whole game. Please don't have instanced areas that never change or evolve with the same NPC being accessed by 20k players.
and i still believe any sort of questing based MMO, is basically a single player game
tepid wadi
I mean, I think that kind of agrees with what I was saying. To make a new MMO that blows people away, you're going to have to evolve the genre in ways that just weren't possible when a lot of classic MMOs were built
tranquil cove
and there are practical issues, because 100 people all cant do the same quest and pack into the same dungeon, dungeons only have so much space and would be crowded.
wouldn't be able to see quest objective because so many people are in the way
tepid wadi
Yeah, balancing those practical issues with immersive gameplay is always going to be a challenge. I don't think many people are upset by the concept of dungeons and instances though.
tranquil cove
Yeah, balancing those practical issues with immersive gameplay is always going t...
yeah dungeon instances are fine
they can be seamless now
your 10 foot walk into a dungeon was basically a loading screen
tepid wadi
Yeah, the tech has evolved so you don't see a lot of things that would've been load screens in the past. There's also concepts like phasing that can address the "world state" issues that you mentioned.
But at the same time, that can lead the world to feel "dead" because everyone is in different phases of gameplay and stuff like that.
Lots of challenges with a game the size of an MMO. It's a hard thing for even the biggest studios to tackle
tranquil cove
i didn't like phasing that much in crew
made it difficult to meet up with a friend lol
elfin shale
Oh.. i realized why the pop count went up so much... Amazon Prime Gaming is givi...
Not only that, they timed a 'free trial' on Steam alongside the show's release. Lol.
elfin shale
my big issue with mmo, well is a lot of things: you can get too grindy with skil...
There's issues with almost every point you brought up here and they aren't easily fixed, so most devs will just opt for the 'safe' option instead.
Taking away all of the progression from the game (in terms of levels gear etc) will make a lot of people lose interest quickly.
Making multiclassing a thing makes balance a nightmare, and in a game with PvP (which almost any MMO needs in some manner for longevity), class balance is important. A vast majority of players like the grind and 'path to power' of getting higher numbers and better gear.
And having a proper 'evolving world' for the player when it basically has to do different stuff for each individual client would put a lot of load on the servers.
timber prism
Not only that, they timed a 'free trial' on Steam alongside the show's release. ...
Dang haha
tranquil cove
Taking away all of the progression from the game (in terms of levels gear etc) w...
i played ultima online back in 1999, you could be a mage and warrior and use two types of heals, magic healing or use bandages. the pvp was the most fun i ever saw in a game. all trash since then.
ultima online eventually phased that out, you either had to go full mage with a bunch of useless supporting mage passive skills
or you went full warrior.
and pvp was trash and unbalanced ever since.
elfin shale
Probably because everyone was just doing the same 'meta' builds for the perceived advantage that they had in PvP.
tranquil cove
there was also healing potions
elfin shale
Because multiclassing is cool in concept, but it's ruined by people minmaxing.
Lmao.
It becomes less of a 'multiclass' system and just a 'freeform class' that everyone ends up doing the same thing with anyway.
tranquil cove
you could heal 3 different ways, interrupt spells and bandages, steal the potions from the guys backpack, and also cast delayed damage spells that you timed to hit with your instant damage spell, doing massive damage, plus you could deadly poison weapons, and a lot of people also used archery.
elfin shale
And maybe that was less prevalent back in 1999, but in today's online environment? Everyone's just going to look up guides on 'best builds' and play cookie cutter BS.
tranquil cove
it was 8XGM, so people ended up doing the same thing often, but you could 6xgm, and then take a different 7th or 8th skill to master
so there was some differences
elfin shale
It still dilutes the multiclass system down into a class system in the end though.
tranquil cove
in todays environment, i could see the permutations and freedom being greater
elfin shale
It's just that you have the illusion of choice.
tranquil cove
because you could have 20xgm or something
timber prism
Probably because everyone was just doing the same 'meta' builds for the perceive...
This. Today's gaming is so much spreadsheet meta min max that once someone finds the best thing everyone does it
elfin shale
And if they aren't using the 'meta' build and lose, they just use it as an excuse. Lmao.
tranquil cove
thats the same if you have class system, always 1 class that dominates, maybe 2, and out of whats left after that, the other 60% are medicore, and 40% is trash.
timber prism
Even worse is the current mmo trends is taking eastern and releasing it western later so people already know what works the best for each patch
elfin shale
The difference between a high tier and low tier set class with the same gear and roughly the same skill level player and the difference between a minmaxed high tier and 'idk what I'm doing and just wanna play the way I wanna' multiclass is vast as all hell though.
Balance is easier with defined classes.
That's part of the reason almost every MMO does them.
tranquil cove
The difference between a high tier and low tier set class with the same gear and...
you dont understand
that's because these are item based games with action rpg animations for fighting
if you take a truly free system into a skill based environment
you don't have a balancing issue
you have one player is better than another.
elfin shale
People will still find a way to abuse things and discover a 'meta' that will make the game easier for them to play.
tranquil cove
but that's true for all mechanics, all games, and i think its worse for the current mmos
elfin shale
And it just... Refines a 'multiclass free choice' system into 'do this if you want to win'.
timber prism
Reminds me of ESO and shield bashing day 1 lmao
elfin shale
Take a game like Elden Ring, which is primarily skill-based if you ask Soulslike fanboys.
There's still a meta there with the most popular weapons in PvP being probably a small handful of items.
tranquil cove
skill is basically always determined by 2 foundational things, movement, and aim. and then incorporated into those both is timing.
the problem with most mmos is they action animation all the attacks so you press a button and your character goes through an attack animation. no aim. you often just auto target lock or face general direction of enemy. maybe archery or magic gets you some aim rarely. but melee, none. you just need proper distance i guess.
elfin shale
Can you take a low tier weapon and beat someone that's using a high tier weapon? Sure, but you probably have to be much more skilled than the opponent.
Playing an MMO where you have to manually aim every single attack would honestly just be miserable.
And wouldn't catch a large audience.
It wouldn't sell well.
tranquil cove
Playing an MMO where you have to manually aim every single attack would honestly...
chivalry is fun 😄
elfin shale
It is fun, but has a niche audience.
tranquil cove
exanima also has a physics aiming system
timber prism
I'm in the camp that mmos are going to stay stale and samesy unless VR MMO actually become a thing
elfin shale
MMOs NEED broad market appeal.
timber prism
And that is not likely to happen
tranquil cove
that's what the suits believe about mmos, which is why they don't change the model
and what people believe about movies too, which is why we get bad movies sometimes, because people think they know what the audience wants.
if the game is good, people will play it
timber prism
Just for me personally. I have pretty much experienced everything a mmo can offer
Nothing actually feels new
tranquil cove
timber prism
Good luck XD
tranquil cove
i mean like if a big studio does it, and puts in the marketing money too
then i dont see it doing worse than current mmos
current mmos sitting at 10k players
timber prism
More than that
tranquil cove
like daily average i mean
tranquil cove
like im pretty sure wow is popular becuase of branding, and people already dedicating their lives to the game, like some of these people have 300,000$ of real money invested into their accounts.
elfin shale
Skill-based gameplay simply doesn't appeal to the mass market.
timber prism
Yeah. Skill based mmo don't do well
elfin shale
And doing skill based stuff in an MMO with latency as a factor for people playing away from the server is just...
timber prism
Look at Wildstar
elfin shale
It feels shit to play with lag even when the game autotargets for you.
As someone who lives in Australia, I can speak to that.
tranquil cove
all games are skill based, like it is on a scale of course, but it's arguably different skills, more timing and pressing buttons
elfin shale
Playing MMOs with 200-300 ping isn't great, but it's what I'm used to at this point.
Lmao.
timber prism
There are def levels to mechanics
tranquil cove
if the game feels meaningful, people will be addicted to it
that's the bottom line
elfin shale
For a lot of people there's not much meaningful in just... Outplaying an opponent through skill alone though.
timber prism
Its just strategy/team management
tranquil cove
instead people do instant gratification too soon, rather than adding armor that is meaningful, that saves you, but doesn't carry you.
elfin shale
Most people like to see the numbers go up to get the happy brain chemicals.
That's why levels and gear and stats are a thing in a lot of games.
timber prism
Part of the reason why gacha are so popular. Numbers go brrrrr
tranquil cove
I don't find idle games skill based at all
theres a skill to looking up how to progress on the wiki
librarian skill
timber prism
Auto everything
tranquil cove
lol
timber prism
I say this as someone who plays idle games XD
elfin shale
I don't disagree that an MMO which has all the things you listed would be interesting to play, at least.
tranquil cove
in NGU idle i had no clue how to progress in some parts
elfin shale
But it wouldn't last outside of a niche audience.
tranquil cove
well all the things i say are hard to implement, with good implementation though, and even better lore to the world
i think it would be addictive
elfin shale
A lot of people play MMOs and like to kind of... Turn their brain off and just go through the motions.
Lol.
timber prism
The good ones give options
Have certain content available for those who want to try hard
elfin shale
Having a truly 'alive' MMO would be neat though. Where there's an ongoing war and each major update to the game changes the state of the world.
timber prism
Without alienating those who don't
elfin shale
But it makes onboarding new players kind of hard unless you just kind of do... 'New army recruit in training camp' then throw them out into the current state of the world.
timber prism
Having a truly 'alive' MMO would be neat though. Where there's an ongoing war an...
You have games that try to say they do this
Throne and Liberty comes to mind
And that isn't doing well atm
elfin shale
Admittedly, it is a lot of work to implement something like that.
And work requires time and money.
timber prism
It is
tranquil cove
i've wanted an mmo with procedural quests
if you do go the quest route
which means nobody experience of a quest would be the same, from the same npc and quests would happenly randomly.
timber prism
It sounds nice on paper
elfin shale
Doing that would require so many sacrifices though.
tranquil cove
maybe npcs get attacked on the road randomly and your tasked with helping save them, and you fail, and then the quest changes when they tell you their dying wish to finish their lifes mission or something.
timber prism
Different games have tried
elfin shale
The quests would probably just equate to simple tasks linking you from one NPC to the next.
'Cause there's no real structure to the 'main quest' as a result of them being procedural.
tranquil cove
i think now that we're getting into AI we could have procedural quests lol
just let an AI handle it all 😄
tranquil cove
'Cause there's no real structure to the 'main quest' as a result of them being p...
i don't think the tech exists yet for the level/depth i'd want for it yeah
probably need advanced AI programmed or algorithms
elfin shale
Procedural generation works well enough for side content.
tranquil cove
tons of things would need to be programmed and setup
elfin shale
It's not at a point where it can build fulfilling stories yet though.
tranquil cove
make an MMO, where you pay 200 people to play NPCs
and do their own thing and give players quests
LOL
elfin shale
I remember that the MMO Neverwinter actually had a system where you could build your own dungeons with quests attached.
And you'd get rewarded with ingame currency for other players playing them.
tranquil cove
imagine if you had an MMO with a NPC faction, or option for players to play as a player or npc and switch between them, everyone designs their npc, can login to the game, and it's setup so from a players perspective the player is getting a unique quest, and the NPC character can basically design the quest within parameters.
so like thousands of dungeon masters maybe
timber prism
Aside from the quest parameter thing didn't LOTR do that?
tranquil cove
i dunno
tranquil cove
you could have like different ways to give quests, stationary npc in a town, or ambush the player and attack them dropping an item or note that gives a quest, so the coders could work out the basic foundations of how players recieve quests in game and then allow you play that out in the game.
basically players engaging other players
could also design your npc and log onto your player character and the npc quest you made is still there
dungeon crafting/quest making in an MMO
since we don't have AI yet
elfin shale
since we don't have AI yet
They already have a system like that in Neverwinter.
I don't think you set up an NPC that appears in the game world as the quest starter though.
Which is uh... Probably for the best. I wouldn't want a game where everyone just plays the tutorial for the system and plonks their generic NPC down in the same place. Lmao.
tranquil cove
Which is uh... Probably for the best. I wouldn't want a game where everyone just...
depends how its implemented, if it was implemented like that it wouldn't be good
elfin shale
Regardless of how the devs want the system to be used, players will just put their NPC down on the ground and you'll end up with a bunch of them all in one place.
And if they implement some kind of system where you can't put it down close to another player's NPC? They'll move just far enough to place it down.
And it'll be a forest of NPC quest givers.
Lmao.
tranquil cove
it would have to be a fully designed system, and like i can't design the whole system 10 minutes before going to bed or in a discord chat, or like... when i'm not even making a game. systems have rules, if designed properly it would work well, if the rules are good. the rules are unseen, programming, the player doesn't have to keep track of the rules, the game is designed that way already etc. if we're talking dynamic quests, then we're probably targetting specific players, think of left for deads system where some players play as the zombies, and others as the humans, and the zombies target the humans. same system here, except instead of pvp, you're targeting people to give them unique quests you designed.
tepid wadi
Which is uh... Probably for the best. I wouldn't want a game where everyone just...
Enter Once Human where you have to build a house as part of the tutorial, so the early parts of the map are FILLED with people's shitty half-built tutorial houses 😝
tawny trellis
ending dd2
elfin shale
neon sleet
Instead of "times fallen" it should track
"Times gotten back up"
Would sounds nicer XD
timber prism
finite saffron
@outer reef please don't use this channel to promo livestreams and stuff, it's meant for discussion of other games
delicate ember
Looks interesting
tranquil cove
oh yeah
fallout has the update on the 25th
so i can play wide screen, they did it just for me
lilac adder
https://youtu.be/AZTI1_BsvvY?si=HXp1Nm55QRLhvn3E
okay so trailers without gameplay footage...why do they do this to us
misty arch
Limited time Open Beta starts on May 1st
https://youtu.be/PuaFdvysulU?si=J23WUn56KxuDObq7
timber prism
stiff adder
misty arch
Beta started today.
https://youtu.be/1Q9yKkegly8?si=R-OdrS-h-wpGgqdt
kindred pasture
tranquil cove
it's interesting how none of the games i see i want to play
like sker ritual, i didn't check the trailer, but just that thumbnail image, not appealing, doesn't draw me in at all
now i feel like i belong to a different generation of gamers... lol
tranquil cove
Limited time Open Beta starts on May 1st
https://youtu.be/PuaFdvysulU?si=J23WUn5...
why are we donning a mask... lol
i watched 26 seconds of every game trailer, and fell asleep 😦
i'm no longer a gamer, just an old man
who is bored.
misty arch
then off to solitaire and candy crush with you
tranquil cove
hey listen, i can't even afford to like every game
otherwise i'd spend too much money
maybe my discrimination is a self defense mechanism for my wallet
i already liked helldivers 2 this year
misty arch
still havent played that one
tranquil cove
there's two categories of player
people who complain none stop playing it, and those who just run off alone and use stealth, and have a chill experience while listening to music
imo it's actually safer to run off alone
less tk's that way too
hades looks okay, the first one looked okay, i never got it though - like i mean i didn't buy it.
dusk bluff
like sker ritual, i didn't check the trailer, but just that thumbnail image, not...
This has to be a troll comment lol
tranquil cove
This has to be a troll comment lol
why is it a popular well known game? never even heard of the franchise before
dusk bluff
I haven't heard of it either that is just such a weird take.
I don't like the cover art of this book so it must be bad
tranquil cove
i mean art does draw people in, but i think also i personally have an issue with fantasy being to fantasy sometimes.
dusk bluff
Sounds like you watch too much youtube.
Thumbnail not funny no click.
I watch trailers and gameplay before I judge a game. if I judged games based on thumbnails I would have had many bad times
This looks amazing. terrible game though.
well maybe not terrible but a huge downgrade from the first and not my cup of tea.
tranquil cove
everything art wise looks great
unless drawn by a toddler, even then, one could argue it's great because its art
so it's not really about the look, just the whole aesthetic and the choice to put that there already tells a lot about if i will like the game or not
of course i'll click on the trailer, to see if i'll actually like it or not, but in general, i won't even go that far to determine if i will like it, or to determine if it's a good/bad game if their advertisement doesn't even draw me in lol
either means it's bad or not for me
dusk bluff
That's just wild a thumbnail will stop you from even entertaining the game lol
elfin shale
I don't like the cover art of this book so it must be bad
To be fair, Valourant never said it looks bad. Just not for them.
elfin shale
i mean art does draw people in, but i think also i personally have an issue with...
But also, the game actually isn't as fantasy as the thumbnail makes it look.
dusk bluff
To be fair, Valourant never said it looks bad. Just not for them.
But basing that only on a thumbnail is insane. It shows 0 gameplay lol
elfin shale
To be fair, a lot of trailers show 0 gameplay. Lol.
dusk bluff
Never said they have to or a trailer makes it any better
elfin shale
I've seen thumbnails for games and just gone 'yeah, not for me' and moved on.
dusk bluff
Palworld looked like complete crap to me in both thumbnails and trailers. Watched some gameplay and that looked great so I picked it up and had a blast
tranquil cove
yeah i just said it doesn't draw me in, or it doesn't look like a game i want to play - based on the thumbnail only, meaning opinion could change if i looked into it more than the thumb.
elfin shale
The game kind of seems like a steampunk Killing Floor/CoD zombies with magic/powers.
timber prism
Played a few hours of No Rest for the Wicked. Pretty fun so far. The verticality and discovering multiple paths is pretty fantastic. Computer is running it fairly well but I heard there are issues for players with older rigs.
tepid wadi
That's a song we're gonna hear with every game that comes out. Lots of people running 5-10 year old hardware and being upset that they can't play new games on max settings.
vague galleon
seriously!
even in the early 2000s there was jokes sbout brand new PCs being out of date lol
elfin shale
Played a few hours of No Rest for the Wicked. Pretty fun so far. The verticali...
Funnily enough, the Digital Foundry tech review/first look video had problems with the game on a 14900k and 4090
timber prism
Funnily enough, the Digital Foundry tech review/first look video had problems wi...
That sucks! 7800x3D and 3080 and I ran it fine. Even streamed it over discord.
timber prism
Pax Dei emails were sent out for next weeks test
dusk bluff
Pax Dei emails were sent out for next weeks test
Yep I got mine!
tranquil cove
i played games on my old rig until my processor melted
didn't care if i was low settings
funnily enough a 760 GTX could still run most new games back in 2021
it was the processor that died
elfin shale
We are entering a point in gaming where a lot of new release titles almost require image reconstruction if you want to run them at a decent frame rate and have pretty graphics. Lol.
candid quiver
Pax dei dont like rpg, so i left and threw my test key. ^^
The pax dei Community is full of people that doesnt like rpgs for some reason, as weird as it sounds to me
tranquil cove
isn't that the best place to RP then?
you get to troll a whole community without breaking any usual community rules
i'd just RP all the time for the lols
elfin shale
RPing in a community that hates RP is just inviting trolling onto yourself though. Lmao.
tranquil cove
yeah and?
also how do you troll someone always in character
it's just play acting
people would sooner be like - this guy is insane 😄
candid quiver
^^
elfin shale
Pax Dei just looks like they are trying to make an MMO survival game.
tranquil cove
tbh i think i agree pax dei would be better off focusing on rpg than pvp
pvp communities are hard to please and finicky
if you're going to be a niche game you might as well draw in the people who will last 25 years
and those are the rp'ers
the pvpers will move onto something else in 1 week lol
i know games from 1996 that still have a playerbase because of the RP aspects
like pretty sure darkfall and all those games that were pvp only died off pretty fast
ultima online was special because it was hugely RP, with interesting world lore... it wasn't designed solely as pvp, it was balanced imo
elfin shale
Competitive PvP games can last, but it's easier to retain player interest if there's always new stuff to work toward like with RPGs and their progression systems.
Counter-Strike is a good example of a long-lasting competitive PvP game that hasn't really changed too much over the years.
tranquil cove
yeah but CS has a format where you can logon really quick get into a 5 minute match or 30 minute game or something, and then log off
and i'd argue people who play CS, the average player, or the majority don't do it for any sort of progression
it's just a time sink basically, maybe even login for the nostalgia feeling
it's more of an episodic game lol
the progression is just getting skins and stuff, or maybe world competitive ratings
majority of people don't do that
and funny enough the only reason i played CS at all
was for the zombie mod servers
so they did have a draw for the different type of player
CS2 has no zombie mod servers, so it's largely useless to me
there was even niche branches of people in zombie mod, like people who liked surf maps lol
dusk bluff
Pax dei dont like rpg, so i left and threw my test key. ^^
its a survival pvp game though
tepid wadi
It definitely seems to be leaning on the PvP aspect a lot more than the RPG aspect, it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.
Thankfully we have enough survival games happening that having one or two that don't match your preferences isn't too bad.
tranquil cove
yeah but if the devs/community are actually anti-rp they are sabotauging their own game basically
tepid wadi
I feel like a lot of devs underestimate the value of an RP community, for sure.
Especially in PvPvE games
tranquil cove
they don't have to dev for rp or build their game for rp but exiling/not making rp'ers welcome is self sabotauge
in ultima online, we had rpers and pvps/pks all in same server lol
the rpers came in two types, pvp rp'ers and pve rpers
tepid wadi
I mean it sounds like it's not really the devs that are hostile to RP, more of just the community. So it might pass.
tranquil cove
and the pve players were basically the prey animal of player killers, the advancing mechanic for player killers was just let the pve players loot dungeons and then kill them and loot their loot.
if you have nobody like that in your game, it means you need to grind dungeons yourself.
tepid wadi
Yeah, that was a big problem for Atlas
I think sometimes the PvPvE developers undervalue the potential that PvE engagement has. Like if you have players who love the PvE objectives, and really good ways to engage with them, it can weave together a gameplay that is a LOT more engaging by involving PvP and PvE in different ways.
I always go back to Archeage when thinking about that stuff, the running of trade packs was an awesome way to do PvPvE
tranquil cove
ultima was good because you could just recall out of a dungeon if you were attacked.
you basically had to be caught afk, or instant killed with a really good combo by multiple players, or have your recall spell interrupted
so it was difficult for pks to get a kill and take all your loot
since the recall spell is pretty fast
every time i farmed a dungeon 80% of the time had a great heal or recall pre-casted
so i didn't even need to go through the casting/no chance for interrupt
the worst situation was dying to mobs
and having to come back naked and hopefully kill the mobs, get your body, and all the loot before a player killer showed up lol
and then you had situations where you come back and there is a red named pk over your corpse
but they take pity on you and don't loot you, and just say hi
lol
but i was well loved in that community even by the pks
dusk bluff
I don't trust kick starters
haughty jewel
https://youtu.be/YTtwubaAS5o?si=lkBVxzofSt-8wObf
Well that's adorable.
Going to follow this KS. Thanks!
finite saffron
Very nice aesthetic, hopefully the KS is realized
tranquil cove
name should be chibi something since they are all chibi
misty arch
The KS has already made double what their expected goal was. So the game is coming, just hope they put the extra money to good use.
elfin shale
name should be chibi something since they are all chibi
Yeah. All the characters in the game are chibi. Like all the humans in the thumbnail of the video for the same game just above it.
😛
tranquil cove
getting kicked from a lot of helldivers games after we win, when arguably nobodys stats are better than mine lol didn't expect nerds to take the game so seriously about performance. a win is a win.
lunar flame
getting kicked from a lot of helldivers games after we win, when arguably nobody...
I'm actually concerned that I haven't been kicked from a single game yet... 😛
dusk bluff
The KS has already made double what their expected goal was. So the game is comi...
nah ceo will just buy a few houses and lambos
tranquil cove
god damn the controls in fallout 4 are terrible
its easier to play fallout 1 and 2
dusk bluff
have you tried a tale of 2 wastelands?
tranquil cove
impossible to parkour and jump, glitchy everywhere, and the transition between run and sprint actually feels like 56k modem lag spikes and doesn't work half the time
tranquil cove
have you tried a tale of 2 wastelands?
nope
fallout 4 is a process of exiting the game for a day because it's that bad
and then trying to motivate myself to continue tomorrow
dusk bluff
I loved 4
tranquil cove
but then again so was base building on no mans sky
i can't play fallout 4 longer than like 15-20 minutes
lol
just tried to parkour jump to an area 150 times and now i closed the game
because the controls are so bad
tranquil cove
waiting for their patch on the 25th, they say it comes with fps improvements and wide screen support
tranquil cove
thats okay its not for everyone
i actually think the game is laggy on new computers
maybe it was smoother back in 2012 on the latest rig back then
dusk bluff
runs fine on 4090 lol
tranquil cove
maybe that's why they are doing this patch
something is messed up, i can never sprint when i want to
either that or its the hitbox of the thing im trying to climb and sprint off of
lilac adder
idk but modded fallout 4 is fire right now. No issues and plays smoothly. espeically some o these nexus collections.
tranquil cove
game looks worse than i remember it, not that it's bad
but even moded, somehow modded skyrim looks better lol
and i think skyrim is older
back when i got the game it looked amazing, so i guess graphics improved a ton since then and now it no longer looks amazing
dusk bluff
im having none of those issues personally
lilac adder
this words are wild but hey I can respect. it. have you tried one of the fallout4 nexus collections recently?
tranquil cove
dusk bluff
u are using the pack?
tranquil cove
"It is still nearly a decade old, though, and as a result, its graphics leave a lot to be desired compared to more modern releases. That often drives players to look for ways to improve the visuals"
tranquil cove
no i checked, it says i don't have the hd installed
i dont use mods
disabled them, for achievements
tepid wadi
More like MrBan amiright?
dusk bluff
LOL
quaint cosmos
Good catch
timber prism
Playing a Bethesda game vanilla is wild XD
tepid wadi
Maybe it's my own elitism, but if a game needs mods to be good... it's not a good game.
dusk bluff
Playing a Bethesda game vanilla is wild XD
so much this lol all bethesda games are like 4/10, and 9/10 with mods
tranquil cove
id play modded but i specifically wanted the experience of the vanilla game, but i think even with mods it wouldn't compare to modern games in graphical look, which is all i'm saying - that graphics really improved over the years and i was suprised by how old fallout 4 looks now, since my memory of it was amazing graphics... basically the difference is the same as fallout 3 compared to fallout 4 was at the time.
now fallout 4 is like fallout 3, and modern games are like fallout 4
if you get what i'm saying
also i couldn't figure out how to install an ENB for fallout, which was another reason I just wanted to try the vanilla
since i'd have to figure out why the nexus link is sending me to a site that looks unsupported/with no download links.
like the nexus link for an enb sends me here
okay? but there's nothing there. fix your links (but also i didn't read the site) lol
anyway just seemed annoying and like a bit of work, so i was like lets experience vanilla instead
plus i'd need a mod to enable achievements while using mods
like i was thinking to install this enb
the links sends me to that site
i just googled now, and maybe they want me to go to this site? http://enbdev.com/download_mod_fallout4.html
but yeah it just wasn't something i looked into at the time, because they sent me to a weird dead end site and i was like forget it lol
elfin shale
I heard recently that Fallout 76 has weird jitter that makes the framerate and controls feel bad if you run it borderless windowed.
Fallout 4 probably has the same issue. Try running it in dedicated fullscreen.
If you aren't already.
But it's also just... Inherently a jank-ass game. You're not going to get smooth Dying Light level parkour movement even if you mod the game out the wazoo. Lol.
tranquil cove
But it's also just... Inherently a jank-ass game. You're not going to get smooth...
oh yeah i am in borderless windowed
i just gotta wait for their update on 25th 😦
cause then i use widescreen resolution
misty arch
The nice thing about Fallout 4 is the mods. The amount of content you can add to the game is massive. With just the Sim Settlements 2 mod, you get almost an extra game in things added.
tranquil cove
The nice thing about Fallout 4 is the mods. The amount of content you can add to...
tbh no amount of modding could fix fallout 4's building problems
i stand by this statement lol
like did they add foundations tiles of different sizes?
they just went with 120 prefab structures
how about the white fence you find in sanctuary, i can't find an option to build it, only to scavenge/move it
did they add walls you can place under walls?
like when i make a foundation 1 foot off the ground, maybe i want to cover it up with a wall
just that 1 foot part that sticks up from the ground
and gardening seems like a big disaster
can barely fit 2 plants in a fertilizer plot
all the building is a disaster because you can't edit terrain either
whats more is that walls snap to foundation tiles/floor tiles
but 90% of foundation tiles are ugly, so you want to put your own floor tile on it after
except that double layers the edge like sandwich...
and walls get placed on top of that, they dont cover that up
so you have a stupid sandwich trim around your house
there is probably 100 nitpicking things i dislike about the build system
it's also weird how civs walk through floors
because they are obssessed with repairing panels on houses
so you see a civ 50% inside a floor hammering a wall
fallout 4 would have been better if it was like new vegas, or skyrim, and you just buy houses/locations to live, and upgrade them/decorate them.
and if those locations came with an auto scrapping machine, where you press 'e' on the machine, and dump all your junk, and it automatically gets scrapped into it's component parts
and all of those parts are auto stored in your home
so much easier, and more fun
just fast travel home, press e, and have all ingredients to craft everything for weapons/armor
not even sure there was any good building games in 2015
i think only todays games could achieve a decent survival/building ui/system
fallout 4 ahead of their time 😦
there was minecraft and 7 days 2 die
elfin shale
Sounds like you're basically saying Fallout 4 would've been better if it was just the previous game without many changes outside of the story.
That games shouldn't evolve or try anything different. Lol.
neon sleet
not even sure there was any good building games in 2015
Cries in Terraria
sly dawn
I'm over here worried for Elder Scrolls 6, Starfield despite releasing in 2023, felt so similar to Fallout 4 which came out 8 years prior.
We're starting to see the cracks in Creation Engine 2, I don't want all developers to use Unreal Engine, but the benefits of it over these in-house engines that developers are using is starting to show.
Tried to love Starfield, it just felt like Fallout 4 in space with empty procedurally generated planets to explore.
neon sleet
It's ok, if things are looking bad for Elder Scrolls 6 I'm sure Todd will give us another skyrim in the meantime.
sly dawn
I just want to play Skyrim on my smart fridge while I wait for my chicken tenders to bake in the oven.
neon sleet
👂✋ they say playing on smart fridge reduces fire damage by 20%
elfin shale
I'm over here worried for Elder Scrolls 6, Starfield despite releasing in 2023, ...
One of the biggest problems with Starfield was the procedurally generated planets and lack of an actual crafted open world -- which is a big part of what made previous Bethesda games good.
Elder Scrolls 6 probably won't evolve a whole lot though, unfortunately. We're not going to see it become a soulslike in terms of combat. If anything, it'll probably end up even more 'streamlined' than Skyrim was compared to Oblivion. Lol.
tranquil cove
Sounds like you're basically saying Fallout 4 would've been better if it was jus...
base decorating is as fun as building, and they give prefabricated structures in the game and in the mod anyway, so having a home you are gifted/buy, that you can then extend with upgrades is pretty much the same thing as a prefab... i am saying bethesda always had this model of owning a home in a game, not base building... instead of shifting to base building when they could only deliver a C product in that area and they know it... they could have stayed with the current model (home renovation) and improved it from a B model to an A+ model.
they gave us building in the game, which was worse than building even at the time, compared to any other building game.
i'm all for trying new things in games
but make it an A+ new thing... don't just do the bare minimum, or add things to your game that can't be fully supported because your game genre is not actually a survival builder and can't have terrain edits etc.
basically it would have been cooler to see house flipper in fallout 4, or dare I say, even vault flipper, a pre constructed vault, that you then renovate. (so basically going the path of fallout shelter would have been 100 times better for fallout 4). oh and by the way a game did basically fallout shelter concept before.... X-COM series (which was also released around the time of fallout 4).. fallout 4 had the ideas available in the market already they just failed to select the right idea.
i could design/upgrade my house, paint walls, do whatever, and then find or build tons of decoration that actually looks nice.
they could have really expanded and made that system great because its very bare bones in all their other games
and as im building in fallout 4, i really wish i wasn't, and i wish instead i was decorating an already built house lol
i liked nothing about oblivion
except maybe the thieving system
moving actual pins was more realistic and fun
but maybe they got criticized because they were teaching a generation of gamers how locks actually work and can be picked
lol
so they removed that in skyrim
elfin shale
Here's an idea for you then; If you despise the building in Fallout 4 this much, don't interact with that part of the game.
I barely touched the building 'cause I don't care for it in most games. Lol.
tranquil cove
they put a pre foundation for a home
that doesn't allow walls to snap to it
of which you cant cover up properly with foundation floor tiles because by the time you go from one end to the other the tile sizes are mismatched.
and then your idea to cover up the ugly foundation is ruined because a bush is in the way
lol
im trying not to interact with it as much as i can
some quests require you to build beds, and provide power and food/water and defenses
instead of people moving into her stupid village
suburban home
they should have built a nice vault
have it when you surface the homes are more destroyed
and you can upgrade the vault and settlers can move in there
nobody wants 100 settlements, i honestly wonder how many players built out the 20+ settlements they provided
most players if they tolerate the build system will still only build in 1 location
i even totally forgot there was more than 1 settlement until i replayed the game last week
stuck shard
shadow of the colossis, or prey to the gods. gotta love the idea of open world bosses that wander around not limited to their respective spawn points. enshrouded would do well to develop a boss climbing mechanic for gigantic bosses.
tranquil cove
core keeper has some wandering bosses
green goblet
I could just imagine a boss like that getting stuck on trees in the revelwood
stuck shard
so does terraria but I'm not trying to deviate from the idea that I dont want to hit a big boss in the toe until he dies. I want it to slam its fist down and dodge at the last second and grab on and climb my way up, dodging its attempts to throw me off and stab it in the neck like a boss battle with something large should feel like.
green goblet
Or falling into holes in the nomad highlands
stuck shard
I could just imagine a boss like that getting stuck on trees in the revelwood
I could imagine a boss like that pushing trees over
timber prism
terraria bosses were kinda zZZzzZzzz in terms of gameplay
there wasn't any real fun mechanics to it
tranquil cove
climbing large bosses is overrated imo, in reality this would only happen when differences in size are ant to human
tranquil cove
but in most fantasy settings the difference in size is more like cat to human or something, and the monsters are fast enough to never let you climb them
green goblet
I could imagine a boss like that pushing trees over
Would be a cool update. Lots of work for something like that but would be cool. Map would probably need a rework since there’s not a lot of “arena” area to fight a big boss like that.
tranquil cove
enshrouded could never have this mechanic
timber prism
why not?
tranquil cove
because combat doesn't work that way already
timber prism
why couldn't they have a giant boss?
green goblet
Map design would be a large reason imo
tranquil cove
they need to recode a lot of things
they can have a giant wandering boss, but not likely a boss you can climb
they don't even have regular climbing
green goblet
Sotc was made with that play style in mind. I don’t think enshrouded was
stuck shard
how cool would it be to see something big sticking its head out of the shroud before descending like a shark fin. you can hear the rumbling of its foot steps. the trees shake and stir like its pushing over tall grass. just ominous
green goblet
Like that’s the whole shtick for sotc
timber prism
for sure
green goblet
how cool would it be to see something big sticking its head out of the shroud be...
Yeah would be sick as hell! Just hard to accomplish on a game that’s not made for that specifically
tranquil cove
enshrouded might be able to add like something giant and alive that you land on, similar to valheims turtle islands
and then you fight smaller stuff after you land on it
timber prism
or hit critical points to make it drop down to hit its head etc
you dont have to climb but can use various points to glide to higher spots while its down etc.
tranquil cove
i could see there being giant flying whales or something that you could glide to lol and land on
stuck shard
some players just think this is the way the game is and any change is not welcome over some purity reasons. man if they dont want to climb the boss and want to stab its toe to death, go right on ahead. no one is suggesting that be taken from you. I just want more ways to engage in battle with those kinds of bosses.
tranquil cove
if enshrouded took the time to add regular climbing, so you can climb cliffs, trees, other objects.
then this idea would be possible in it's entirety
green goblet
some players just think this is the way the game is and any change is not welcom...
Oh I’m not arguing that it wouldNT be cool or fun. Im just stating the games not coded for that type of combat. And it’s not for purity reasons, its just a fact that it would require a lot coding and mechanics that are not in game currently.
tranquil cove
unless by climbing bosses you're okay with grappling onto the boss
and then they just make a small landing animation at the top and you instant kill it
green goblet
Yep there is no climbing in the game so that would be one thing that would need to be added in addition to animations needed for the other stuff
tranquil cove
i guess they have the climb animation from the scalable metal grid thing
but yeah i still think it's one of those ideas that will need more work than even adding water would be
green goblet
It’s a cool idea nonetheless
stuck shard
well I'm not against a boss operating some kind of spider fortress where you have to fight clusters of enemies if it game to that. but this game has such untapped potential.
tranquil cove
it might be possible, but would require a boss as tall as the towers
and then maybe can only fit one on the map
and it walks around
green goblet
well I'm not against a boss operating some kind of spider fortress where you hav...
We’re still early! Still got plenty of time to tap into that potential!
tranquil cove
they would need its leg to be climbable like the metal grids are
but reskin to leg texture, either scales or roots (if it's a giant walking tree)
green goblet
it might be possible, but would require a boss as tall as the towers
And a large enough area to fight it without it bugging into other things and having collision issues
tranquil cove
and imo the combat wouldn't be that fun.. better off making this creature neutral or friendly and having a plot reason to climb it, so somewhere on top you can land and fight something evil thats harming it or get some special resource.
stuck shard
what about god eater or monster hunter where the monsters are various sizes and you can hop on them and dish out a few attacks before getting thrown off like a rag doll. you still have your dark souls esk battles. even dragons dogma 1 had this kind of combat. all the devs have to do is add an attack animation to the climbing pose, and some geometry detection to point where to place the hands and feet while climbing a surface. I think there are some unreal tutorials specifically for that purpose if I recall correctly.
green goblet
what about god eater or monster hunter where the monsters are various sizes and ...
Enshrouded runs on its own in-house engine. It doesn’t use unreal so it would require coding it from scratch on their proprietary engine.
stuck shard
that would make things a bit more difficult
green goblet
This is why we don’t have in-game chat yet
Things that seem simple on unreal are a lot more time intensive when using your own engine
stuck shard
yeah no doubt
green goblet
Now we just need Keen to say “hold my beer”
tranquil cove
i mean they can do anything, but it's a matter of development time, and at the cost of something else
if like walking is already coded into the game, than any idea with walking is faster to do
as a very bad example 😄
but when you ask to code mechanics that don't exist, it's somewhat from scratch unless they get creative
but like this idea could be in the game, like who knows what their plans are after full release
if they will continue to add updates, they could always add new mechanics i guess
i just don't see it taking priority before full release/road map stuff
unless they already had giant boss you could climb planned 😄
candid quiver
Unreal Engine has alot of multiplayer, message ui and such already built in from its unreal and tourament start after all.
So its easier to tap into those then in a custom engine yes.
steady storm
does anyone has lol account in Asia server?
tranquil cove
damn fallout 4 has terrible controls
like always get overweight in battle
inventory management is brutal
somehow enemy hitting me puts me in walk mode or something lol
vague galleon
ya, i just use console commands to add like 10k lbs of carry weight.
tranquil cove
i never liked this game
bought it back when it came out played to level 37 or something and some side quests, like a few hours of play
and then never opened it again
didn't beat it, never did the main story etc.
i beat fallout new vegas 3 times
vague galleon
all the bethesda games are in my top 10 played.
they scracth a lot of itches for me.
tranquil cove
i beat skyrim 3 times
vague galleon
but they have a lot of issues.
i got like 350 hours in skyrim, never once finished either of the main questlines.
oblivion is the only one I ever beat. came close in NV. never finished any of them and they all have like 300+ hours. oh. FO3 I beat too.
tranquil cove
skyrim is pretty trash in some ways but more playable than fallout 4
30 of these hours in last week
thats how bad this game is, i put it down for 10 years
vague galleon
one thing I really like about gfallout 4 is the settlements.
tranquil cove
by comparison