Leveling up was exactly like HOTS or league
#other-games
peak marsh
Yeah if anything that kinda has my skeptic mind spinning. The fact that it's character locked means there's probably limited customization in progression and everyone will be following one or two 'accepted' metas
timber prism
You only heal from eith food or campfires... which healed you like 2 hp/tick
And you had to refresh by standing up and sitting down again to heal again
peak marsh
I caught that part, like if it's an integral punishment for being a damage sponge so be it, but it seems awfully hostile for a part of the game where you're still learning
timber prism
There are healer supports tho which makes parties much better experience
But it makes parties mandatory to have a good experience
peak marsh
Sure, but why save the easy part when you have a healer for the later part when you're already experienced and make the painful part early while you're still learning the game, your character, and the enemies
Because frankly most people will jump in and start leveling solo and that's going to be their firm, first impressions
timber prism
Yea
peak marsh
"This game sucks, campfire sim 2024"
timber prism
A lot of glaring issues for sure
I am still hopeful it turns into something that can compete with albion
peak marsh
I'm not worried about Albion, frankly that game didn't grab me, but I like isometric games and I'd love an iso MMORPG to be good
Something about Albion's art style and the fact that it was so vacant while using the excuse of "oh, it's a sandbox"
I feel like "sandbox" often gets thrown around as an excuse for "we had an idea but no direction so we made the players do it"
Fractured Online is a great example
timber prism
I compare it to albion bc that is what it feels most similar to
peak marsh
I get you
timber prism
Pvp zones, dropping mats on death
peak marsh
Yeah. Essentially another game trying to do what Ultima Online did well almost 30 years ago
timber prism
The one thing i really liked was that mobs arent pushovers
Like a lvl 1 or 2 mob can kill you if you cant kite or use abilities correctly
I played a 2hander and basically had to kite mobs and wait for cooldowns to attack more than 1 mob at a time without losing too much HP
peak marsh
Yeah, I do enjoy that kind of cat and mouse
Basically the game punishing your mistakes and forcing you to be thoughtful about what you're doing and how
timber prism
Im curious how it all works in large scale pvp haha
But i didnt get to experience any of that
sullen crane
reef bobcat
Looks amazing but have no idea how it would be playable lol. You hit 10-13k instances your lagging extremely bad just on a solo world. Can't imagine THAT. Valheim isn't built to be played like that sadly
kindred leaf
We'll have to wait and see I guess. I'm willing to try it. lol
peak marsh
That's how it's formatted, but he basically said Enshrouded and Prince of Persia are the two he's excited about. TBF Prince of Persia looks pretty good, I hope it gets a Switch release
misty arch
Prince of Persia does look surprisingly good. Might have to check it out. Also looking forward to Palworld as well.
peak marsh
warm lake
and u was asked to make concept art for it.. that's the first concept for the infected type i have made
i don't really like how the middle part looks though
but well, it's only the first concept image
rain flare
Quelaag
quasi lichen
Nors Spiderbrood!
junior ivy
hope it doesnt spit magma on me again.
lunar flame
hope it doesnt spit magma on me again.
short sail
Did someone say magma? 
peak marsh
reef bobcat
Hehe the name hasn’t been corrected
short sail
That's not me. Nono. Must be some Italian guy.
rapid yoke
as a geologist I condone this for some people
neon sleet
Anyone else see that "light no fire" on steam?
neon sleet
peak marsh
The one from the devs of No Man's Sky?
neon sleet
Yea
peak marsh
Yeah, it looks interesting but that's one I'll probably wait and see how it launches
neon sleet
Aye aye
rapid yoke
It looks like a massive empty open world with some random large POIs sprinkled in, but yeah... we'll see
neon sleet
Hrmmm
rapid yoke
Enshrounded from the get has a bunch of things you can see to go explore, I look at the trailer for light no fire and you just see empty procedural wilderness and maybe one thing to go look at in each shot and that thing isn't always that interesting when they get close to it
peak marsh
The team and their propensity to underdeliver on large promises has me wary too. Making a planet sized survival with a bunch of promised features has my alarm bells buzzing
rapid yoke
It's kinda like quinnfall too, just because you can make it big, doesn't mean it will be good or fun
or like bethesda pushing back on having empty planets in starfield
"We'll space is full of empty planets and moons"
Sure, but is that fun or interesting gameplay?
nah
peak marsh
"You're just playing it wrong, stop giving us negative reviews"
rapid yoke
lol
When games tell me their world is massive these days, I just think of a walking simulator
or that they better include ways to get around it much faster, and then the entire huge world is useless
peak marsh
Which begs the question, if your world is so big and empty that you need effective ways to skip large chunks of it, why not just make the world smaller and more interesting
rapid yoke
Legit thought that was like AI created pokemon for a minute, the art style is indistinguishable.
peak marsh
Pokemon but you have guns and can use the pokemon as bullet shields 🤣
rapid yoke
Looks interesting, not for me, but hope it does well
super dystopian to combine cuteness with military complex
near warren
I'll pass as well. Too cartoonish for my tastes no matter the game play.
peak marsh
Not to my taste either. I've tried but I don't really get into the 'monster collector' genre in the first place, and pokemon but guns sounds completely silly xD I'll just stick with Enshrouded
misty arch
Palworld looks more like a mashup of pokemon and Craftopia. Your pals are used for everything you do, like farming, building, etc. So you wont be having one out at a time. They will all be out doing things at your home.
reef bobcat
some one needs to post the lying on top of cash with cash in the eyes meme with koticks face on it
timber prism
Not to my taste either. I've tried but I don't really get into the 'monster coll...
Yeah, there was only one monster collector i enjoyed and it was Monster Rancher but more because I liked seeing what my CD's got me. I could never get into Pokemon. This might be the first one for me since then that I would enjoy just because it gives more opportunities for fun PVE fights which I think 90% of Survival games dont do. I'll definitely be trying both Enshrouded and Palworld out just as I have tried many other survival games XD
timber prism
Palworld looks more like a mashup of pokemon and Craftopia. Your pals are used f...
This fight seemed interesting. Im looking forward to seeing the others https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e2woibUML0
This and Once Human are the only two survival games that I think really do combat with guns that looks good
Im still iffy on Enshrouded combat myself
dusk bluff
if I like this game what other games would I like? already played grounded, valheim, vrising and that lotr dwarf game
stoic dust
if I like this game what other games would I like? already played grounded, valh...
its not for everyone but i enjot it icarus game
sorry for the spellign i blame the meds
peak marsh
The Forest/Sons of the Forest
misty arch
Fortnite LEGO is a lot of fun and a true survival game. Just need to get passed fortnite being in the name. It is also free, which never hurts.
reef bobcat
if I like this game what other games would I like? already played grounded, valh...
If your into like zombies state of decay franchise is a great time burner
Loved both 1 and 2
3 has been in the works for years now should be coming out in the next year or 2 very excited for it
misty arch
I agree with him on everything about this game. The development time isnt there, 3 years is not enough with a game they are saying is going to be one of if not the biggest game world for an mmo. They also need to be very careful as The Day Before has left a very bad taste in everyones mouth in regards to content at release. If they come out with an empty world, this game will bomb.
reef bobcat
This is another day before. Except instead of asset flip, it’s ChatGPT assets :D.
It seems jan is actually going to be closed beta or something.
misty arch
ya, jan 30th
obtuse scroll
That's way too soon after Enshrouded's EA, skip LOL
reef bobcat
well it is smack in the middle of enshrouded ea and nightingale ea
rapid yoke
I mean, if enshrouded is bad, there is always Quinnfall!
misty arch
The big difference between the 2 is that Quinnfall is going to be a full blown MMO. We are talking hundreds of people running around at the same time. That with them allowing free open building. I cant see how they have the game capable of doing that in just 3 years of development.
rapid yoke
Wow even more than 16 people at once? Sounds waaaay better!
For what it is worth, creating a giant procedurally generated area and letting people build anywhere isn't all that challenging to do in three years. It doesn't necessarily make for a good game though
The point of procedural generation is to cut down on development time for larger spaces
even UO let you plop a house down pretty much anywhere there was open space, this was 1997?
I dunno why people think these things are groundbreaking or take a bunch of work
timber prism
O.o
quaint cosmos
Quinfall has clunky movement in their video. I don't know if it is the frame rate, but it doesn't look as polished. So far, it looks ok, but I'm not going to touch it. It looks underwhelming for me.
reef bobcat
quinfall seems to have taken a lot of ideas from a lot of games and then plastered it as bullet points for itself. there seem to be no focus in what the game wants to be. this seem to be crypto levels of shadyness if you ask me.
rapid yoke
I mean, isn't that every game? Enshrouded has done the same thing too. I will agree it looks like a pit of a cash grab
reef bobcat
well in enshrouded case it is similar at least survival/rpg mechanics. in quins case the ideas seem to have come from a wider broader range of games.
quartz plume
Better a good idea gets stolen than a bad execution for an original idea
That's how games develop, by getting inspired by others
finite saffron
It's how any art gets developed honestly, there is really no piece of art or media you can point to that isn't in some way derivative of something else. That's just how it works.
I think what's important is to create an experience that in some way offers something you cannot get elsewhere. Maybe it changes things up in an interesting way, or maybe it's just higher quality than the original.
timber prism
Its pretty rare to have an original idea in any form of media these days. Toast nailed it on the head
untold lynx
speak for yourself
if publishers deigned answer my numerous emails, you and the entire world would see what a truly creative mind is capable of
timber prism
Let me rephrase that... it is rare to see these original ideas actually turn into something.
misty isle
It's how any art gets developed honestly, there is really no piece of art or med...
We (being the indie studio im with) just saw a new small title announced today which is like.. a 95% clone of sth we did.. right down to the pitch decks opening words. xD could be co incidence.. could be that our pitch deck got leaked/compromised.. but as you say, could quite simply be.. that we had the same idea/inspirations! creative endeavours are tricky like that! 😄
misty isle
if publishers deigned answer my numerous emails, you and the entire world would ...
Wait.. you get responses?!
near girder
Has anyone played The Front?
misty arch
I have
near girder
Is it as garbage as the trailer on Steam makes it look?
misty arch
no, its actually quite fun, especially if you have people to play it with.
near girder
Are they public servers / open pvp?
misty arch
yes
near girder
Is there text chat?
misty arch
yes
near girder
hm. interesting.
misty arch
they have both pvp and pve servers as well
near girder
I'll give it a go if Enshrouded is a bust.
small plover
Ive given up on Once Human the devs are definitely playing favorites on who they let into the beta, and it ends soon so whats the point.
quaint cosmos
Sounds awful. That game had a Remnant MMO style that i was looking forward to
tepid wadi
I mean they were doing a huge amount of key givaways during the holidays. Me and a couple buddies managed to snag them
The game is pretty good, it feels kinda like a multiplayer ubisoft sandbox with survival elements. Lots of strongholds to clear and complete, but then you bring materials back to your base to craft gear and stuff.
It feels pretty good
finite saffron
I mean they were doing a huge amount of key givaways during the holidays. Me and...
Here's one
||🔑 🔑 🔑 ||-||🔑 🔑 🔑 🔑 ||-||🔑 🔑 🔑 ||
tepid wadi
One of the things that I liked a lot about it is that there are a lot of little sidequest puzzles that are very unique.
quaint cosmos
April 1st came early this year
inner dune
The game is pretty good, it feels kinda like a multiplayer ubisoft sandbox with ...
Once Human is on my radar though I hate eating/drinking mechanics in games where it makes you die. Is that how it is in that game?
tepid wadi
No, you just get debuffs if you have low hunger/thirst. Like sprinting takes more stamina and lowered max health.
inner dune
I got ya. That's good.
tepid wadi
Yeah, I'm glad survival games are largly moving in that direction.
inner dune
Once Human looks like the kind of game I wanted Outriders to be.
tepid wadi
I wouldn't say it's got the quality of skills Outriders had, like you don't get a bunch of magic powers to do shit with. It's more gunplay focused (but less chest-high wall focused)
inner dune
I loved Outriders but half the skills were useless. lol
As long as the gunplay is good that's all that matters.
tepid wadi
Yeah, I loved the idea of outriders, but the execution left a lot to be desired. It had so much potential that was blocked by the core combat mechanics.
The skills were really fun to use.
So much that I almost didn't even want it to HAVE gunplay.
inner dune
Outriders could've been amazing but they just didn't do enough with it.
tepid wadi
Like many big budget games, they went the safe route instead of leaning into the things that made their game unique. And like many GAAS games, they didn't have a very good plan for content post-release, so there was no real service to their game as a service.
inner dune
Well, they never intended it to be a GaaS which was the problem. It should've been OR they could've had some DLC that truly added content.
tepid wadi
The story was fine but the world they created was so interesting that it made me sad that the story boiled down to "we have 2 factions on the planet and they're fighting, fight the bad guy."
inner dune
Not to mention they totally screwed the multiplayer at launch.
tepid wadi
They may not have intended it to be a GAAS but they definitely built it like one. Looter shooters don't really work too well as a standalone title.
inner dune
And the world was pretty, they give me this tank truck thing, but htere's no open world areas and I can't ever drive the truck. like what?
tepid wadi
Right? Why should I care about customizing my cool exploration battle tank if I never get to DO anything with it.
inner dune
Yeah, they did eveything like a GaaS except manage it like one. lol
Nothing. It's just there for pretty.
And then in the expansion area, they don't even have it parked there to look at so it's even more useless.
tepid wadi
Like a lot of games, it was a 6/10 as far as reaching the potential that's clearly there.
It's so easy to see what could have been, but it just doesn't get close.
inner dune
Yeah, potential was through the roof.
tepid wadi
Related: RIP Anthem
inner dune
And I got my money's worth. I played the F out of it.
tepid wadi
Yeah, I got my money's worth from it for sure, but it's still sad to see something with such clear potential fall so flat.
inner dune
But what I'd give for an Outriders DLC called "Beyond the Storm" and it's just a massive open world map with world bosses, caves, ect.
tepid wadi
I mean shit, just make outriders 2 and do that.
inner dune
Or like they go the Monster Hunter route and you're out in the world hunting shit like that Spider Boss.
timber prism
Ive given up on Once Human the devs are definitely playing favorites on who they...
Yeah. Thats unfortunate ... but this has not been my experience at all. My friends and I ( about 9 of us ) had zero issues getting keys from giveaways. Its not playing favorites. I was even able to get one from a streamer yesterday to give an account to my friend
tepid wadi
Yeah I feel like Once Human is really doing a stress test and spraying out as many keys as they think their servers can handle.
inner dune
I mean shit, just make outriders 2 and do that.
I just home Once Human does it better. A 3rd person looter shooter, open world, RPG, etc. blah blah for me sounds amazing.
tepid wadi
I'd say that they're doing a pretty good job so far. I played up to like level 22 or so and had a good time. I dunno how endgame will work, or if it'll have the longevity that it needs, but it certainly feels like a game you'll get your money's worth out of.
My only real concern is that the gameplay starts to become a bit repetitive. Who knows if they have ways to liven it up as you get deeper in.
The boss fights felt pretty good.
timber prism
@inner dune i think it does a lot stuff well. The only thing i dont like is that pvp isnt normalized
merry moat
I don’t see it currently happening but a friendly reminder of [this](#the-tavern message) incase it goes that way
inner dune
<@390651259532738561> i think it does a lot stuff well. The only thing i dont l...
What do you been by normalized?
timber prism
Like gear makes a huge difference
inner dune
Oh so it's not so much skill based as gear based.
inner dune
Is the PvP seperate from PvE or is it open world PVP?
tepid wadi
Ah yeah, I didn't do any PvP so that could definitely make things challenging. Though, PvP is also largely optional. It's off for the most part
But there are certain events you can do that are PvP-centric
timber prism
Open world but its not a free for all. Its very similar to Division
inner dune
I don't mind dabbling in PvP but I don't want it to be open world.
timber prism
Where you pick up an item and it auto flags you
inner dune
I only played Division 2 where PvP is only in teh Dark Zone areas.
timber prism
You try and "extract" it a device you build on one of your bases
tepid wadi
Yeah, i did that. I didn't have any problems with players from it. I was like "Oh, maybe I can do this defend event" and got annihilated by the normal mobs.
I was totally unprepared, heh
timber prism
The base building is fun and i like the items
Vehicles feel good
Gunplay feels good
tepid wadi
Yeah, the building is pretty good. There's also a fair amount of customization for your character, between guns and abilities and stuff.
timber prism
Yeah. Collecting bosses and securing them in your base for stats that you can choose is awesome
And having to maintain their happiness is cool too but im unsure the difference between having them 100% happy or not does anything yet???
tepid wadi
Oh, I figured that out.
inner dune
Collecting ... happy ... what? lol
tepid wadi
TL:DR bosses drop a "Deviant" that you collect and store in your base. They have different stats that you can use to keep them happy.
Basically, the happiness % determines how regularly they generate "power" which is a currency you can use to buy items from them. Higher happiness lowers the timer between how often they generate power.
timber prism
Oooooo
tepid wadi
Some like classical music, or green light, or animal stuffies, or generator sounds, etc
timber prism
Yeah. We built separate rooms for each one haha
I also like that areas of the map unlock by server conditions... my friends and I made characters on a new server last weekend and the server just unlocked T3 today
tepid wadi
Oh interesting
I always like it when servers end up being different because players do different things
merry moat
What game is this? Sounds interesting
tepid wadi
Once Human
tepid wadi
It's basically an ubisoft sandbox survival game looter shooter. It's pretty solid and I think it comes out in a month or two?
(but not actually by ubisoft, just very similar to their sandbox games)
timber prism
I thought it was Q4 2024 haha
tepid wadi
Maybe, IDK
timber prism
If its two months.. thatll be awesome XD
tepid wadi
With how many people they're inviting to the beta, it wouldn't surprise me if release was imminent
I seem to remember something saying Feb, but I could be thinking of a different game
timber prism
Im actually surprised servers seem to be doing well
inner dune
I looked it up and it says Q3 2024
tepid wadi
Well damn, they're doing pretty well for it being that far off. But also good because there's a lot of good games\ coming out early this year.
inner dune
Beta closes at the end of January
inner dune
So they'll take that time to polish and capitazlize on all the money The Day Before left on the table. lol
timber prism
I want to say it started early/mid december
tepid wadi
Yeah, I definitely remember seeing it get started in early december
Or at least their announcements around then
timber prism
Once Human is on my radar though I hate eating/drinking mechanics in games where...
I felt this. I cry everytime i play Raft haha
inner dune
I felt this. I cry everytime i play Raft haha
Imagine, I tried Scum one day which not only makes you eat and drink, but manage vitamin levels, AND use the potty. #1 and #2.
timber prism
That sounds awful
inner dune
It wasn't for me. I love Conan because you can set the eating/drinking levels down so they don't matter.
timber prism
I thought the eating foods and getting buff if you exercised sounded neat on paper but i am way too lazy to micro that much
The only full sim one i liked was Project Zomboid
inner dune
Yeah, it's not for me.
Project Z is a lot of fun. HumanitZ is basically an updated version that's pretty good too.
inner dune
Yeah, if you like PZ, HumanitZ is basically the same thing just prettier graphics and maybe a little easier in some ways. IT also has building.
I thikn it's 24.99 USD normally. If you get it let me know. I haven't tried the multiplayer. It's in EA too.
timber prism
Will do!
timber prism
tepid wadi
Looks pretty good, I imagine T3-4 materials mostly?
timber prism
stone!
craggy wing
Rock and Stone?
peak marsh
Rock and Stone?
craggy wing
To the bone
tepid wadi
@timber prism I haven't set up any defenses yet, but:
tepid wadi
Yeah, I hadn't logged in in a couple days, so my generators were dead and deviants unhappy and all that
timber prism
i think the play is use hive for main base and then use personal to make fortnite bases for the containment unit when you wanna do pvp stuff
you can just make a tall house with stairs.. and then break it when its doing its thing haha
tepid wadi
Oh man, and then they just can't get to the containtment unit and stand there, dont they?
timber prism
they will still attack you
i watched a streamer do it
and i think the plan was to keep other people from getting up there easy
tepid wadi
ahh
We did it the other way, where the hive base is the defense base and the personal bases were for crafting and stuff.
Since you can have 4 generators in the hive base
timber prism
ahahaha
i didnt know this but i guess you can gain and lose weight in this game too???
sullen crane
Yes
tepid wadi
Yeah, I saw that, but have no idea what the mechanics for it are.
I just eat preserved meat and purified water, which has no effect on weight apparently 😝
timber prism
We did it the other way, where the hive base is the defense base and the persona...
this also seems smart haha
tepid wadi
Nah, I probably won't play too much more in the beta. I played enough to know that I'll get some good enjoyment out of it when it releases
timber prism
kk
sullen crane
tepid wadi
Is it good?
I tend to not like games that force you to play as a character, rather than letting you build your own character.
sullen crane
I tend to not like games that force you to play as a character, rather than lett...
Have u played warfarme ?
tepid wadi
Yep, didn't like it there either.
near girder
Is that an actual stone foundation? I just assumed everything was a wallpaper over wood.
tepid wadi
Once you get to the third tier area, you get access to stone buildings
misty isle
What game is this? don't recognise the imagery?
tepid wadi
Once Human, they're currently doing a beta. A sandbox survival MMO
north ore
game ??
untold lynx
why am I still building McMansions in the future 
also I re-did the Arks mission in Frostpunk and accomplished all objectives 
maiden lark
The building in once human is not good compared to enshrouded or valheim imo.. scavenging runs are fun tho
misty isle
I'm so pleased I know so little about Enshrouded. xD I played for 30 mins in the last beta/nextfest thing, just long enough to know I'd love it. then I quit out so I could save my excitement for launch.
Valheim had decent terraforming, but nothing touches life is feudal for me, until this xD
reef bobcat
ahh a lif terraforming enjoyer. salut
ive sunk hours in that game just building trenches
misty isle
ohh yes! that games terraforming was such hard work that I felt genuine pride after some projects xD
reef bobcat
it has had the best farming ive seen in a game
untold lynx
"it almost tastes like a real potato"
timber prism
The building in once human is not good compared to enshrouded or valheim imo.. s...
Yeah. Building in Enshrouded is what has me excited to play it. There are building things in Once Human i do enjoy like wiring for electricity and plumbing for water. I am not sure if Enshrouded has any physics like needing supports but its in Once Human.
untold lynx
it's my worst nightmare IRL so I can't imagine doing it in a game for fun
timber prism
Oh rip haha
I thought it was fun to learn. I cant do everything regarding plumbing but i can do basic house stuff
I also enjoy working on cars and doing electrical so maybe thats why i having features like that in games haha
untold lynx
being able to do it IRL probably helps
timber prism
Yeah... it saves me a lot of money too xd
Especially the car and electrical stuff
I just renovated my basement to modernize it since it was built in the 80s
maiden lark
Yeah. Building in Enshrouded is what has me excited to play it. There are build...
Wiring is like in fallout.. i like that part too. What i dont like is the wall sizes and premade parts giving not enough freedom in what to build.
timber prism
Definitely agree on the limitation of prefab. Its what makes games like Enshrouded and Valheim stand out.
misty isle
Hopefully this is allowed here, if not, I apologize and please delete and smack my butt.
I subscribe to Humble choice because its great for charities, but often I don't want the games as I already own them, or they just aren't my jam, so here is my list of spare games from the last few months if anyone wants anything just drop me a line, no strings attached, I just hate seeing games go to waste! 🙂
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NXvC8G2GTZYXzPYHrLLhSwXVg-UVazz3cguQeymdRlw/edit?usp=sharing
(Updated to include January Humble Bundle! ) (Devs get prio as long as they promise to make an altar of solid gold for me ingame. ;))
dapper path
Hopefully this is allowed here, if not, I apologize and please delete and smack ...
can i get death stranding
misty isle
can i get death stranding
check PM's 🙂
finite saffron
Huh, definitely seems like it takes place in the valorant universe, I wonder if the gunplay will be similar
I kinda wonder if it's a kind of extraction shooter, not a traditional mmo. Sounds like it has PVP elements based on job listings from Riot
timber prism
Im excited for Project L. Im wary of the mmo aspect of any FPS though but its cool that they are attempting it with Project T
near girder
Im excited for Project L. Im wary of the mmo aspect of any FPS though but its ...
Could be like Warhammer: Darktide/Vermintide, or Aliens: Fireteam Elite.
timber prism
Could be like Warhammer: Darktide/Vermintide, or Aliens: Fireteam Elite.
Im very oldschool in the mmo definition. I dont count any of those games mentioned to be MMOs
peak marsh
Careful, "what is an MMO" is a slippery slope on discord xD
tepid wadi
I'm skeptical if Riot will be able to make an MMO, I feel like they're thoroughly in the "too big to succeed" level of game creation for an MMO. Like, the project would be so massive and so expensive that unless it's an absolute banger that gets every player ever to play and subscribe, it'll fall apart. Which means they have to cater to an immense audience, which then means they won't be able to focus on a niche that will actually attract players and hold their interest over time.
Note: I'd be totally happy to be proven wrong, I'd love to see an MMO in their IPs.
peak marsh
MMO is already a niche for a niche audience. No company goes into making an MMO to be profitable - Josh Strife Hayes has a great video where he breaks down just how small the market is and how difficult it is for a new IP to have lasting success
timber prism
Careful, "what is an MMO" is a slippery slope on discord xD
Lmao. Its as slippery as the RPG slope xd
tidal osprey
Except for the fact that Riot has an established IP and lore with League to build something around.
peak marsh
Not only are you already in a niche but you now have to convince people to put down what they've put hundreds or thousands of hours into so they can start all over in yours
tepid wadi
Except for the fact that Riot has an established IP and lore with League to buil...
I think a lot of companies underestimate the importance of this. The survival of WoW, FF14, and ESO can all be attributed in part to this factor. MMOs are definitely a difficult niche to build for.
sullen crane
Riot has already said they are making A MMO RPG around league of legends lol
Everyone loves league lore
tepid wadi
Yeah, they've said it. I'm just skeptical as to if it'll see the light of day. I'd honestly be really surprised if BOTH their MMO projects survived to completion, since there's a lot of self-competition there.
sullen crane
Riot went into a new market with valorant and is dominating lol riot has never flopped
tidal osprey
I think a lot of companies underestimate the importance of this. The survival of...
Exactly. On your other point, I feel like that mainly goes for "veterans" of the genre. There's still a decent amount of people jumping around in the MMO world looking for the next thing. For multiple reasons.
sullen crane
They even made Arcane
tepid wadi
Oh, I know. I used to work there, back while Valorant was still in their prototype department
tidal osprey
There's also the fact that their MMO lead jumped off the wagon and went to make his own thing with a new team.
tepid wadi
I watched an almost-finished prototype get put on ice indefinitely that I was really excited about 😢. I doubt they'll ever go back to it at this point.
peak marsh
I have no doubt they'll develop and release an MMO, where I have doubts is A) That it will do anything significantly unique to stand out from the already available, established options, B) That it will gather a large enough lasting community to support it, and C) That it won't be shut down or China only in 2 - 5 years
sullen crane
Riot already has a community anything with riots name on it people will try out
tidal osprey
I mean, there's enough LoL fans to make an MMO last. Especially if they play their cards right. I dont really think it's going to fail, unless they screw it up majorly.
tidal osprey
b
timber prism
Trying it out vs lasting power in mmos is vastly different imo
sullen crane
Trying it out vs lasting power in mmos is vastly different imo
Riot has never flopped so
peak marsh
The issue with that is LoL isn't an MMO. Completely different game genre. Also, even if they do and it ends up being a top 5 MMO, a top 5 MMO is only 2% of a reasonably successful mobile game in terms of profits and SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to maintain
tepid wadi
Yeah, I'd definitely play it if they do put it out. Like I said, I'm happy to be proven wrong.
sullen crane
They went into a new market with valorant and have a higher player base then most of your favorite games only pc btw
tidal osprey
They have money coming in from all sides right now. I'm sure they can maintain an MMO, especially with the way they profit on skins.
peak marsh
Sure they can maintain it, the company won't be in any danger, but shareholders won't like seeing a profit sink
tidal osprey
And MMOs play really well into that market. With pets, mounts, skins and more to sustain.
timber prism
Riot games seem to historically been a pvp focused competive game company
sullen crane
Also they already said the game is going be based off of league so the champions classes
peak marsh
But again, they need the audience and let's say 30% of the LoL community buys in and plays it regularly. That's not much. Now you're trying to drag people out of FFXIV and WoW and good luck with that, people have been trying that for a decade
timber prism
Please name me successful pvp focused mmos
tidal osprey
I understand your skepticism. I think most level headed people will have their doubts, but Riot has such a huge advantage over other companies that would make an MMO and that is hard to ignore.
sullen crane
Please name me successful pvp focused mmos
Who said the mmo will be PvP focused ?
……
Riot never said that
timber prism
Riot
sullen crane
No they didn’t
peak marsh
They do, and I have no doubt they'll release it and it will be successful - for a time. I don't see it sticking around just like many, many other MMOs haven't
timber prism
Hence hiring pvp staff for it
timber prism
So name me a successful pve riot game
tidal osprey
That's just being pedantic.
peak marsh
Maybe I'm wrong and for the people excited for it, hopefully so, but I have a feeling it will be just like New World and Lost Ark and all the other 'big' MMOs that have dropped and dropped off over the years. Once the new game smell wears off people will just retreat to their comfortable FFXIV and WoW communities like they always have
timber prism
Sadly yes
tidal osprey
Lost Ark fell off for a lot of different reasons that I dont see Riot implementing into their game.
sullen crane
They aren’t going have forced PvP. It’s a casual mmo
peak marsh
I mean LA fell off faster because of bad decisions but the trend was already starting before they decided to be silly
The MMO genre just isn't big enough to support too many big fish and two of the biggest fish already have their territory
sullen crane
Riot makes there own territory
peak marsh
Again, WoW is arguably the biggest MMO around and they generate about 2% of the profits of a reasonably successful mobile game. And that's with having a majority of the market
lol. Another WoW killer eh? It'll be fun to watch
tidal osprey
Why do you keep comparing it to the mobile market? That's just silly.
peak marsh
Because they're a publicly traded company and it's what their shareholders are going to do
sullen crane
Yea the mmo won’t be like wow so why call it a wow killer lol
peak marsh
Why sink "our" profits into this money sink when you could do anything else and increase stocks
sullen crane
The mmo will be free non p2w expensive cosmetics
peak marsh
Because for any MMO to be large enough to be successful WoW is the looming Goliath they have to compete with. Doesn't matter who you are, they dominate the market and what's left is dominated by Square
sullen crane
Y’all said the same thing about CS go lol and look at valorant
peak marsh
I don't recall saying word one about CS GO
sullen crane
Riot always puts there own twist
timber prism
Lmao
sullen crane
CS go plus overwatch
They will make a mmo with wow plus final fantasy
And run the market
peak marsh
Time will tell. I hope so too, the MMO market has been stagnant for years but time will tell
tidal osprey
I cant say what Riots MMO will or will not do. The only thing I can say is that I truly believe that they have a pretty solid chance to get a proper player base and maintain them. IF anyone should be able to do it, it is most likely Riot.
peak marsh
It's a shame but I think Soulframe will be dead in the water. They're doing paid + subscription, all I can say is that gameplay better be amazing
sullen crane
Riots takes thing’s people love from other games and turns it into something better
sullen crane
It's a shame but I think Soulframe will be dead in the water. They're doing paid...
Warframe already does this so it will be fine
dusk bluff
Isn't overwatch basically dead?
peak marsh
Warframe has a robust free to play, that's a big part of why it's so successful
Besides, I think I got mixed up, not Soulframe but that one from the Eve devs
timber prism
Paxdei?
peak marsh
Yeah, Pax Dei
dusk bluff
Compared to what overwatch was it lost tons of people
peak marsh
That's what happens when you re-release the same game while stopping people from playing the old one and make it worse in every way xD
dusk bluff
Gross who still plays that crap it was amazing when it was just ow. Now it's crappier modes and reused revolving content
peak marsh
Don't forget those battle passes
dusk bluff
I don't count on anything blizzard makes anymore to be good
pine surge
а как поолучить ключ к игре к бетке?
dusk bluff
Before blizzard was ran by devs who put their heart and soul into games. Now it's a lifeless shell
peak marsh
Thanks Bobby, don't let the door hit'cha
timber prism
Hopefully netflix can pull off something better than the Warcraft movie XD
merry moat
[Friendly reminder](#the-tavern message)
tidal osprey
I'm pretty sure I stayed in the "good boy zone".
peak marsh
I feel like no matter what genre you're into or what you enjoy we can all come together in saying that Bobby Kotik was terrible
tepid wadi
Lol good luck! Let me know how it works, that's something I didn't experiment with at all.
dusk bluff
I hope HOTS gets a revival. That game is so fun
timber prism
Its vs the #1 guild on the server so we will probably lose z.z
dusk bluff
Its vs the #1 guild on the server so we will probably lose z.z
What game is dat
dusk bluff
Ahhh ok I thought it was still beta
timber prism
It is
This beta phase has been going on for a couple weeks now and lasts till the 21st
dusk bluff
I hate playing betas I get hooked and then I have to wait lol
timber prism
I treat it like playing seasons in other games haha
It just fits perfect in the timeline for other releases imo
peak marsh
That one seems interesting. Is it open PVP or consentual?
timber prism
For the most part it has seemed that way so far
You can pick up an object that you have to bring somewhere and defend as its being "extracted" that flags you for pvp
There will be pve and pvp servers later from what their site says
There are war zone dedicated pvp areas i think as well
I havent gone into any yet
peak marsh
I wouldn't mind it if the PVP is cordoned off to a zone or a game mode you can queue for, I work full time doing physical stuff, lifting and building and such, so I don't have the time to be as sweaty as I used to
I'm just not down for pure open PVP, that was the impression I was getting from the early looks
tepid wadi
It's definitely not that, you can purposely flag for PvP, but otherwise unless you pick up an echo stone you won't get flagged automatically while playing normally
peak marsh
Oh cool. That's what made me kind of hold off, the game looks cool but I thought the PVE was basically a tutorial for an MMO extraction shooter
It sort of reminds me of Firefall in a way. That game had so much promise before the CEO decided it was going to be the next big e-sport and started buying busses
tepid wadi
oh man, Firefall was great.
It does sort of have a similar style, though without the... bombasticness of firefall?
balmy flare
Thing i'm building in Valheim
untold lynx
It sort of reminds me of Firefall in a way. That game had so much promise before...
don't forget also becoming a prominent gAmErGaTe supporter and devoting his entire personality towards trying to legitimize GG griefs to gain personal relevance even as his own reputation crumbled (because the studio and project he led exploded due to the scale of mismanagement)
the pvp was fun, though. Nothing Titanfall didn't do better, but at the time it was rare to see a "fast FPS" MMO
deep sparrow
Anyone wanna play Vahiem? 18+
peak marsh
don't forget also becoming a prominent gAmErGaTe supporter and devoting his enti...
I actually forgot about the whole GG nonsense. I think I reflexively scrubbed that couple years from my memory
misty isle
don't forget also becoming a prominent gAmErGaTe supporter and devoting his enti...
Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! 😉
untold lynx
I was working on another MMO at the time and we watch that car crash in near real time
it was something
misty isle
I can imagine, I personally dislike real world things in my games, not because I do not care about the various issues, but because.. I play games when I want to escape the mundanity of real life yanno? xD
untold lynx
I'll not say much because it's a tricky topic to talk about without opening a can of worms, especially as it's now been ten years since this first happened
but being able to say "this doesn't concern me" is a chance not everyone has, basically 
this goes for a lot of things in real life lol
misty isle
oh 100% xD again yeah, gotta be careful what we say, but the tribalism of 'you're with us or against us!' has never sat well with me one way or another!
Can I not just.. not care?
untold lynx
oh I get ya, it's just that more often than not, "not picking a side" is picking a side
yadda yadda
misty isle
exactly.
misty isle
ooh nice, bbq chicken roll with lettuce and crispy onion for me. and the best bit is, wife is at home so I didn't even have to leave the office! and I'm done with work for the week! so got naff all to do now till Monday! 😄
untold lynx
wish I was this lucky
my family just went home yesterday so the house is still in disarray, got a week-end of chores ahead of us. And the fridge is empty 
misty isle
oof! are the decorations down at least? xD
2 more days to do that before bad luck sets in!
untold lynx
the tree is still up. It's only been up for 10 days. Maybe we'll keep it for another couple of weeks, it looks real nice close to the fireplace
strong merlin
Mist Survival or No One Survived. Which should I try first? Picked them both up on sale.
hallow oracle
Mist Survival or No One Survived. Which should I try first? Picked them both up ...
You have guns in No one survived it looks more polished but it's another zombie survival game
Mist just looks bad and again it's another Zombie survival game
south river
Thing i'm building in Valheim
Love Valheim
misty arch
Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy is the free game of the week in the Epic Store if you are looking for something good to play while you wait for other games to come out.
misty arch
tepid wadi
Can't wait to get 20 levels in and then die 4 times in a dungeon and quit because XP debt sucks!
reef bobcat
its amazing ncsoft allowed this. genreally studios are very gung ho about shutting stuff down unless you are valve
quaint cosmos
"being a Star Citizen fan can certainly cost you an arm and a Legatus."
misty arch
Can't wait to get 20 levels in and then die 4 times in a dungeon and quit becaus...
Ive played on the Homecoming server and the xp debt is barely noticable if you notice it all.
hallow oracle
https://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-truly-outdoes-itself-with-a-dollar48000-bun...
It is actually enjoyable to play but if your dumb enough to go for something as expensive as their top package then you deserve what you get.
There is the postulation that they will just keep this game in continuous development to earn money from whales. If the Single player game isn't released in 3 years time along with the Multiplayer then I think you can definitely say that. I have spent what I want on the game I doubt I will spend more.
summer raptor
Thing i'm building in Valheim
We builders can't wait to terraform and build fantastic big settlements in enshrounded.
balmy flare
We builders can't wait to terraform and build fantastic big settlements in enshr...
Yeppppp
timber prism
Can't wait to get 20 levels in and then die 4 times in a dungeon and quit becaus...
This was actually my fav part of FF11 lmao
tepid wadi
Yeah, DD2 looks pretty awesome.
tepid wadi
This was actually my fav part of FF11 lmao
I don't actually mind xp debt as an idea, but I definitely remember every time I quit playing City of Heroes back in the day was because I had racked up a ton of xp debt and it felt like it would be forever until I dealt with it, so I ended up quitting.
peak marsh
It's a good idea on paper but in practice all it does is incentiveize mindlessly grinding easy mobs and avoiding challenges
timber prism
I dont really agree with that statement and think that is more dependant on the player. While some may get discouraged and end up doing that there is the other group who find it more rewarding and a higher sense of achievement and search for those challenges. I say this as someone who enjoys permadeath, xp debt, and full loot drop games.
timber prism
I fully understand its a small community of players that enjoy it and its not healthy XD
In the sense of healthy for a games success especially if their goal is to have a wide audience
MMOs are already niche to begin with
tepid wadi
Well, I'm more on the side of XP (and level) loss than xp debt. They both do the same sort of thing where it weeds out lower skilled players from the higher/more challenging content, but I think debt feels worse. Both styles require certain design decisions though, like the journey needs to be the focus, not the endgame. Modern MMOs are so focused on endgame that leveling systems are largely sidelined in general.
peak marsh
Both are ideas that punish the player for experimentation
Maybe that's a direction or a side effect, but the result is always the same
tepid wadi
I think they can be done in a way that works, but it definitely needs to be in a game designed with it in mind. Slapping XP loss on any ol game just because is brutal and definintely shouldn't be a thing.
peak marsh
Maybe it's my bias talking, but I feel like Monster Hunter as a franchise has it right. Failing means no reward, but no loss other than the time spent
But still the feeling of growth, learning, and adversity
timber prism
Yeah. I love Mon Hun. I cant remember if you lose food mats on loss though
Needing to eat food for buffs again on the next run
But aside from that i cant think of anything else that is lost
I startef playing MHW again last night to prep for Wilds
Modded it to rebalance the game a bit and some QoL stuff and it feels really good
Going through Iceborne w/ hammer to practice and see if i can kill Fatalis with it
peak marsh
Hammer is fun, but I'm a GS/Horn hunter at heart
timber prism
Im a HH main
I solod everything with it
Wildhearts i am an umbrella main haha
That has to be my fav weapon put into a game in a really long time
I debated trying out GS
I hear its a lot of fun
peak marsh
I wouldn't call GS fun, rather satisfying. It's a simple weapon but it takes a lot of practice to be good and it's very satisfying when it pays off
TBH a lot of people find it frustrating
Or they shrug at it's simplicity and move on
timber prism
ooooo
peak marsh
Like, no exaggeration 80-90% of GS attacks are the overhead sheath slash. That and dodging are most of what your damage output is. The rest is finding places where you can add the followups and where being really, really comfortable with your combos comes into play. It's very slow so you only have time most of the time to get in one attack. The skill comes in with the 20-10% of the time you can follow up on it
The payoff is that if you DO get good at it, you have one of the most punishing weapons in the entire game
timber prism
I think that is what i love about Mon Hun in general
it is super rewarding to learn fights and your weapon
It feels really good to be able to non stop beat a mon in the head with a horn XD
rain flare
Reddit horn
limpid wasp
https://youtu.be/7_hA1hF5mbM?si=ktFC7V8Fs0TJo2Yp
I am also looking forward to DD2. I've been in desperate need of a game with a proper sense of adventure and fun, without it being nebulous.
honest valley
I am also looking forward to DD2. I've been in desperate need of a game with a p...
try dragons dogma dark arisen too if you havent already
peak marsh
tidal osprey
He still at it? Havent seen any of his vids for at least 2 years. My guess is he thinks this is a mediocre MMO that you should only play if you have nothing else to do and want to play something new. Doesnt bring anything new to the table, but will keep you busy for a few weeks.
timber prism
Most recent thing I heard about Lazy Peon was him partnering up with a MMO that he completely trashed in his video so I guess he completely sold out XD
tidal osprey
That's just comical.
tepid wadi
Lost me at Web3 MMO, heh.
If he completely trashed it, he probably didnt completely sell out.
tepid wadi
try dragons dogma dark arisen too if you havent already
Definitely a good one. It feels a little dated going back to it, but 10/10 great game to be told "Goblins ill like fire!" About 700 times.
timber prism
If he completely trashed it, he probably didnt completely sell out.
I didnt watch the review but from what I heard he dogged on it.. then they partnered with him.. and then he wrote that. XD
im watching it now
HOLY
I never played a Web3 mmo... but you gotta buy a NFT premade character.. the one LP bought was $240 or something
tepid wadi
🤷 It happens. Blockchain games arent inherently bad, but Ive yet to see one that does anything with the potential that would be meaningful over a non-blockchain version.
peak marsh
🤷 It happens. Blockchain games arent inherently bad, but Ive yet to see one tha...
That. Web3 doesn't add anything in the slightest that elevates or improves the game in any meaningful way, in all of the pitch pieces I've heard about it. I guess maybe if you're into web 3 it gives you something to do outside of the game that is slightly game related? But as someone who doesn't care, it does nothing for me
tepid wadi
Its hard to make blockchain games not feel like a scam, because so many of them have been already. Blockchain doesnt add anything for gamers, only for investors.
timber prism
His video wasn't bad from me skimming through it tbh
tepid wadi
I'll have to watch it when I get home.
stiff rune
hi guys, some good mmopgr for spend time?
misty arch
City of Heroes Homecoming server is a good one and free.
Star Wars Old Republic is still going and has some new stuff going.
ESO
Embers Drift if you are into an mmo that is a throwback to classic mmos.
Palia is kind of an mmo, more a relaxed game then anything
there are more im sure
tepid wadi
His video wasn't bad from me skimming through it tbh
Most positive I've seen him towards a game in a LONG time
rapid yoke
Stay away from ember's adrift
reef bobcat
I was hyped for Palia till I played it and came across 2 things. One opening up a micro transaction window was a tutorial. Two a beta in dev game has far too much microtrasaction for vanity items in it and instead of finishing developing, first update had a pet for those who bought stuff. The importance given to the micro transaction part this early in its development put me off. Not sure how it is now. It was also way tooo much run around a lot to grind stuff
neon sleet
Ima start something.
Cool images that get cooler if you know what happens next.
regal hatch
Any good upcoming popular survival game
Or any other upcoming popular pc game ?
chrome wolf
Enshrouded this month on early access and next month night gale
regal hatch
Enshrouded this month on early access and next month night gale
Date of early access
grim karma
icarus is pretty fun they update new things weekly and have so far 3 maps and such
timber prism
Hmm
Any current or new popular survival game?
Two that im really enjoying atm are Once Human ( its in beta ) and Corekeeper ( early access )
regal hatch
@grim karma @timber prism thanks.
I have played once human it was ok
crystal estuary
I always go back to GuildWars 2 — free for base game up to expansions. The horizontal progression means you can take a long break without fear you will basically start over again when next expansion comes out (eg WoW).
hushed vector
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI9RgbtzFUI&t=59s
is this game even worth it?
I've been watching videos about it. I haven't heard good things about it, but I really want it
peak marsh
From those videos, no, or at least not until some reviews come up. They literally show that everything so far is just bought assets put together
hushed vector
Yeah, I learned my lesson on games like Payday 3. Waited for that game to come out with reviews and it wasn't worth getting.
Really hoping the game starts with good reivew but my other friend wants enshrouded instead of quinfall
peak marsh
Quinfall screams scam to me, but we'll see. It's definitely not one I'd go buy on day 1
hushed vector
Quinfall screams scam to me, but we'll see. It's definitely not one I'd go buy o...
wait, do you know why quinfall went from: "release date on the 26th of January" to now no release date?
peak marsh
I have it wishlisted, but it's another one I'm going to wait and see on. I've been hearing some things about the devs
hushed vector
I have it wishlisted, but it's another one I'm going to wait and see on. I've be...
lmk cause I wanna get that one too
hushed vector
cool, thanks!
peak marsh
I hope it pans out because I loved Defiance and I haven't seen anything recently close to that
hushed vector
I hope it pans out because I loved Defiance and I haven't seen anything recently...
That's true, I see that ashfall is F2P, so that... may be a little issue with in game stuff. But seeing F2P is nice
misty arch
if you were interested, City of Heroes Homecoming has been granted an official license by NCSoft. The game is also f2p
hushed vector
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-EVnQ-HVR0
sigh, his review made me sad, for now
peak marsh
neon sleet
I didn't know ashes could burn.
Thanks WotC, for teaching me something new today.
rapid yoke
I'll second that. Solid game overall!
shy oasis
I'll second that. Solid game overall!
I remember you lol
misty isle
My problem is, I'm 50% snob, 50% trying to justify why I spunked so much ££ on a 4090 xD so I try and avoid pixel games, I know it means I miss out on some greats!
peak marsh
Silly reason to miss good experiences
misty isle
never said it wasn't 🙂 we're all flawed, some are just more aware of it! 🙂
I've never liked that graphic style
Vampire survivors is the only one I've ever got on with
I'm a huge fan of the bullet hell genre, and tons of the greats have that art style it just doesn't work for me
patent storm
core keeper is too much grind. And even if you prepare your equipment, your opponents will still destroy you in 2-3 shots. The bosses are too easy, the game in general has little content.
lunar flame
My problem is, I'm 50% snob, 50% trying to justify why I spunked so much ££ on a...
Aren't all games pixel games??
I mean, they all use pixels... like it or not. 😛
shy oasis
core keeper is too much grind. And even if you prepare your equipment, your oppo...
When was the last time you played? - there have been some updates
Because if you’re a newbie to the game, it’s going to be a nice experience imo
And they offer different difficulties
patent storm
When was the last time you played? - there have been *some* updates
Short before last update with new biome.
timber prism
That really isn't true at all about Corekeeper. I'm in Iron gear atm and I can tank so many hits from the cave people before dying... it is far more than 2-3 hits.
You have farming, fishing, exploration, raising cattle with 4-5 tiers of item progression. Thats decent content for an Early Access game
My gf and I are currently playing and put in well over 20 hours so far.
patent storm
I have 71
Dying from 2-3 shots from mob on ocean,desert or forest biome is common thing.
timber prism
What tier are those mobs?
I havent found ocean
Or desert XD
But I can tell you the clay biome doesnt
So 71 hours but little content?
I'm assuming you don't count exploration and farming materials for each tier as content and just the bosses?
limpid wasp
It's a fun little game but I personally found it repetitive. I stopped playing before the Crystal Biome update. Exploring the same-y random gen ocean took all enjoyment out of playing.
I still hear the motor boat noise when it is quiet.
shy oasis
I still hear the motor boat noise when it is quiet.
🤣
finite saffron
What a cute art direction, looks interesting
rapid yoke
But it's not a tales game?!
summer raptor
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1621690/Core_Keeper?snr=1_7_15__13
I'm Playing right now! It's kinda addictive
obtuse scroll
But it's not a tales game?!
LOL I thought it was a tales game too....nope
rancid gulch
hey!
was there a update for portal knights recently?
im curious if anything was added or udpated?
peak marsh
quaint cosmos
People have some sharp eyes. I'm glad someone is calling out on the devs for making fake games. Oath was something I looked forward to, and it was an asset flip that shut itself down. I didn't spent money to support them because I was still upset about No Man's Sky's lies from launch. The Oath devs got away with it and ruined another good studio in the process.
reef bobcat
The day before has primed gamers spidey senses for scam
shy oasis
I'm Playing right now! It's kinda addictive
It’s really chill and fun to play with friends
Probably made at least 10 of my friends buy the game lol
Good stories, good soundtracks and I think the games are pretty charming overall
untold lynx
if you have two bucks go buy this
shy oasis
if you have two bucks go buy this
Looks promising, Ty!
short sail
I clicked for details, but the picture just zooms nearer.
untold lynx
it's a story game, what people call "walking simulators"
it's got a really nice story, very good voice acting
and visually I think the art direction is stunning
shy oasis
and visually I think the art direction is stunning
Yep this was the selling point
untold lynx
also finished the last Frostpunk scenario last night
36 hours spent in the game
would have glady spent another 30 more
shy oasis
We need a vc for community nights and maybe streaming a chill game for a few people on here
untold lynx
we will implement self-moderated voice channels closer to release
shy oasis
Got it
violet widget
quartz plume
wait, do you know why quinfall went from: "release date on the 26th of January" ...
because its a scam just like The Day before
just looking at the images you can already clearly tell how that is nothing more than an asset flip with empty promises
If a game promises you everything, be prepared to get nothing
misty isle
Doing a bit of research for a game im working on and so just installed 'Prototype 2' again..what a fantastic game that was.
hushed vector
because its a scam just like The Day before
just looking at the images you can a...
I probably won’t get it now. Since the review I watched was breaking it down badly lol
quartz plume
I probably won’t get it now. Since the review I watched was breaking it down bad...
it just looks like a cashgrab
misty arch
official release date and its earlier than expected.
https://youtu.be/tOatviGVCTs?si=BXyh6_3RhnITG7BO
misty isle
The frustrating thing is, many companies (mine included) uses assets. but because of things like The Day Before, people think any game that uses assets is now by default.. bad. or an asset flip
truth is, when there is a 4k readymade asset pack.. why would you pay your 3d artist to do the same stuff when you can have him work on the more engaging parts 😛
finite saffron
Or people call games asset flips just because they look similar to other ones, even with no evidence lol. Have had a noticable amount of people claim this game is an asset flip, despite us building it from scratch in our own engine
misty isle
oof, that must HURT though xD when you literally built the engine
to be reduced down to that
This is a shot from our current WIP. the operators are 100% marketplace. til we get funded on this title xD
sullen crane
but its not even the asset flip they faking office pictures
tried to have a closed paid beta on steam when steam dosent allow that.
stray quartz
oof, that must HURT though xD when you literally built the engine
Nice thats impressive.
stray quartz
The frustrating thing is, many companies (mine included) uses assets. but becaus...
Its always the bloody few bad actors that fook it for others. The assets swap calls and claims are only going to get worse but its getting easier for people to spot scam games so the trend might die down more now. Especially with content creators farming scam games. Over time it might balance out.
sullen crane
also saying that they will have servers that will hold 10k players in a open world mmo is just not possible without alot of money lol
misty isle
Oh, no doubt, I'm not saying they didn't totally screw the pooch, I'm just saying, they have now popularised shitting on a game for using assets 😛
stray quartz
Your right thought scam games have made the idea of store brought assets have poor reception which is completely backwards thinking in today's world and market place. Has def tainted all games that use them. I hope that after time the trend dies and people care less cause big scam games stop becoming a trend.
Yer 10k players is a warning sign
sullen crane
i think the real scammers here are steam. they are allowing these people to put games on there platform without verification. since they will get a 30% cut of all profits anyways. xbox and playstation do background checks and review the games they put out.
tidal osprey
Steam has been improving a little bit though. But it's hard to filter everything.
stray quartz
Im not sure where I stand with steam but even Nvida got scammed by The Day Before or what ever it was called. They had a full promotion for it.
chrome kettle
Not that hard to filter everything.. i means thats Possible JOBS for people if Big platforms like steam would put in a effort and cash to have a Quality Control center and process.. but they only care about the money
sullen crane
yea because they allow anyone to make a game on steam
they cannot have a strict policy
rapid yoke
i mean you're gonna have the occasional scammy game, along with a ton of bad-average games and some great ones alongside weird adult games
misty isle
It's madness really, there is games out there that really test that policy. if I even said the words in here, I'd invoke the wrath of the mods.
sullen crane
i mean you're gonna have the occasional scammy game, along with a ton of bad-ave...
this never happens on xbox or ps
wanna know why ?
they do intense background checks?
rapid yoke
It's easier to develop for PC and publish through steam
You still get some really bad-average games on the playstation store
sullen crane
yes but my point is many people want games on console and they cant because they get denied
rapid yoke
Quite a few actually
misty isle
100%. Sony and Xbox scrutinise HARD, making even day 1 patching a nightmare
chrome kettle
they cannot have a strict policy
with in 7 Days of purchuse ,2 hour Window of play time. and limited # of refunds in a 2 week period, thats not strict ? not to mention 90% oif " its not fun" refunds are Denied on steam...
sullen crane
100%. Sony and Xbox scrutinise HARD, making even day 1 patching a nightmare
i rather have intense checks then get a virus or scammed
misty isle
Fair, and you are right, Steams refund policy has been great for the industry, Epic adopted the same one based on it
rapid yoke
I've never had a it's not fun denied, so I doubt the number is 90% on those
I would have had at least one by now, even anecdotally
peak marsh
misty isle
to play devils advocate though @sullen crane, we got a negative review from a games blog on the one I worked on, because it 'doesn't have autosave'. it does.. but something in the porting broke it. and we couldn't patch it for weeks. it can hurt xD
but from the players perspective, I do get it, Another game that suffered is Payday3, the console patch approval basically tanked PD3 launch xD
sullen crane
well if the scammer keeps u on the main mennu for 2 hours how will u refund ?
long story mssions
just to eat up time
that was the day beforre
rapid yoke
and then steam came in, saw it for what it was and dealt with it
What more do you want?
misty isle
Yeah, its a double edged sword for sure, no matter the system in place, there will be both players and devs who exploit it
think how many issues in gaming wouldbe solved if people just CHOSE not to exploit or be nobheads 😛
rapid yoke
There are so few games like the day before on steam, so few that this one became such a big deal
It's so rare that one makes HUGE news
and the platform handled it perfectly and make people whole
sullen crane
good thing steam stopped allowing pre orders on early access games !!!!! thats was making the sacm too easy !!!!
rapid yoke
you can't ask for a better system than that which also allows for more freedom
misty isle
Maybe I'm idealistic, having played Valve titles since before steam existed (WON Authentication gang!) but I do believe Gaben wants the best for the gaming world.
rapid yoke
There are some absolutely WILD games on steam in the $1-5 range that wouldn't exist at all (and maybe shouldn't exist, but that's a personal feeling) if valve didn't provide freedom of development and easy publishing
If something bad happens and people are taken care of, the system works
sullen crane
If something bad happens and people are taken care of, the system works
the thing is everyone isnt going refund lol
misty isle
I was gifted 'Hitlers BD-SM Bunker' by a friend.. how is that even a thing? xD
peak marsh
Maybe I'm idealistic, having played Valve titles since before steam existed (WON...
Another double edged sword. Do we accept a clear monopoly when the clear monopoly is (currently) beneficial? Though that's a deep rabbit hole about free market choice and the public responsibility of private companies... on second thought, yay Gabe
chrome kettle
Doesnt help devs these days now that Every game feels their Entitled to Bomb the Dev/Company for the Smallest thing that goes wrong or because the choice was made to cut some content they wanted... even worse for games that bacisly shoot down Any support for mods.. yes my Comments are a bit delayed.. im a slow reader 😛
sullen crane
a simple back ground check and TDB should hsve been off the steam website when past games ON STEAM have shut down after people buying in less then 2 months
misty isle
Another double edged sword. Do we accept a clear monopoly when the clear monopol...
totally valid criticism! the 30% margins hurt too.. but many huge companies have tried and failed to replicate steams success and most if not all come crawling back.
rapid yoke
a simple back ground check and TDB should hsve been off the steam website when p...
There are too many games being added to steam each month for that level of quality control, it won't happen
misty isle
I believe Epic has now said that if you develop in unreal 5, you HAVE to put it on EGS aswell as steam
peak marsh
Also Epic is just hemorrhaging money because of EGS
misty isle
but, consumers are creatures of habit, Epic literally throws free games at you, and I bet none of us use it unless we have to
it doesn't help that their storefront design is godawful
rapid yoke
I don't even have EGS installed, why would I?
misty isle
I make games in unreal 5 xD kinda required.
and I also like the free games, gives me a chance to try titles I wouldn't normally buy
sullen crane
There are too many games being added to steam each month for that level of quali...
it wont happen until steam is getting sued !!!!
rapid yoke
lol
That's like when people try to sue social media companies for user submitted content not being regulated
sullen crane
people have to get sued to act right idk why
peak marsh
That's the thing. Epic spent all their money giving out free games without starting with developing and offering a superior product. For the average consumer outside of the free games (literally the only reason I have EGS), why would I want to start using your product when I already have my entire game library and friend list on a superior storefront
sullen crane
nexon is learning !!!!!
misty isle
for me, I just like my games in one place. and the vast majority are on steam, I've tried a few apps like Playnite that merge ALL your game clients into one, but it just wasn't as good
misty isle
That's the thing. Epic spent all their money giving out free games without start...
Again, you're bang on, they threw money at the issue assuming we'd all jump ship, it was an expensive gamble
sullen crane
Steam did everything right here
so u think they shouldnt be held responsible ?
misty isle
It's an interesting debate for sure, does Steam/Valve as the 'middleman' foot some of the blame, personally, I'd say yes, since they took their cut of the sales, if they take a %, they are.. that % to blame in my opinion
rapid yoke
They take a % of sales sure, but they also gave full refunds to anyone that wanted one
They made it right
sullen crane
They take a % of sales sure, but they also gave full refunds to anyone that want...
but they know everyone wont refund lol
so they dont do a force refund
peak marsh
More to the point in that case they pretty much had to refund everyone because a game launch like that is the kind of thing that could shake confidence in the entire storefront, left unchecked or handled poorly
misty isle
I like Rhoisaad, he's a smart dude.
rapid yoke
Oh for sure Rhoisaad
misty isle
and I think that sums it up nicely, they will get away with what they can get away with. they stepped in when public pressure/visibility MADE them
ultimately, they are all corporations out to maximise profit
rapid yoke
But I'm sorry, this is like saying the bank is at fault when you buy scammy merchandise with your credit card
They provide a bunch of protections for you, and you can choose to use them if you want to
they even make money when you do it
sullen crane
i mean your account can get hacked and money stolen the bank still isntv responsible
even through its a security breach
misty isle
As fun as this is, gotta put the puppy to bed! pleasure chatting Adall, Mercy, Rhoisaad and co! 🙂
rapid yoke
lol
Depends on how the information was stolen
If the bank itself was breached, they would be liable
peak marsh
But I'm sorry, this is like saying the bank is at fault when you buy scammy merc...
Well but they aren't the bank, they're the store. Like if I go to Macys and by some Levis, only to find out they're Vietnamese knock offs called Leuis, they are kind of at fault for not having better checks in place
rapid yoke
If steam itself released a scam game, or lost all your information in an account breach, they would be liable
peak marsh
Now, mishaps do happen and if they handle it well, all is good
rapid yoke
But steam isn't like a macys
Steam is more like a pop up flea market at this point
Steam is the building a bunch of people go to to sell their goods
but the shops are independent and give steam a bit of money to be there
sullen crane
im sure there a us law making physical stores responsible but online stores are different maybe
false advertising or false product
rapid yoke
Steam isn't actively seeking out products to sell
peak marsh
I think we're maybe getting off track with analogies. Flea market is more accurate but I still don't feel like it's quite right because they are literally a store selling a variety of merchandise from a variety of manufacturers and brands, but that's just muddying the waters
finite saffron
Steam is pretty good about just offering refunds and removing stuff if it really turns out to be a scam. Probably the main reason they don't tend to be held liable for anything
rapid yoke
Or at least not the majority of the stuff showing up on steam these days (I'm sure they court large AAA titles)
Right, but steam doesn't pick the merchandise
sullen crane
nor does walmart?
rapid yoke
Walmart 100% does
reef bobcat
Hmmm doesn’t steam have an approval process when you submit a game?
sullen crane
yes but people apply to be in there stores
peak marsh
And thats when it gets into free market vs the public responsibility of private companies. To a degree I think the way Steam runs now is perfectly fine, some scams get through the cracks but ultimately they're eventually weeded out and dealt with. I don't want a situation where Steam is over-curating what is and isn't available and I'd rather it stay a free open market, for the most part
sullen crane
walmart does not look
rapid yoke
You can't just walk into walmart and put up your beads
You can literally walk onto steam and plop your game down
rapid yoke
I mean, there is a process to plop your game down
sullen crane
which they review and get background info
peak marsh
All of that of course from a consumer perspective, the devs are the ones who feel the thumbscrews from Valve
finite saffron
Hmmm doesn’t steam have an approval process when you submit a game?
The process is mostly just "did you give us money" and "is it technically a game" lol
rapid yoke
^
Steam is literally just a platform for connecting game development studios to customers at this point
finite saffron
Yeah Steam is extremely hands off for all but the biggest studios
rapid yoke
They take zero responsiblity for what that content is
and unless something major happens, like The Day before, they aren't, and shouldn't step in
Literally THOUSANDS of trash games a year
You cannot employ enough people to vet all of that reasonably
reef bobcat
But there is a process in place whose terms can be changed is it not. It’s not a free for all
finite saffron
My main complaint is just their 30% cut. Pretty annoying given how little they actually do, other than exist.
Most devs would really rather not use them, but we don't really have much of a choice since gamers do not like other platforms (and especially not third party launchers).
sullen crane
we can only hope how long until the us steps in a puts regulations in place for steam
rapid yoke
To regulate what?
peak marsh
My main complaint is just their 30% cut. Pretty annoying given how little they a...
It was a long bitter road for Steam to get accepted by the gaming masses. I remember back in the day it got some pretty huge pushback
reef bobcat
Well I don’t think they have any interest in that. Unless someone sues and courts decide to do something
peak marsh
Nobody wanted another launcher, especially not one that wanted to be running all the time
rapid yoke
If anything, there should be better regulations to protect consumers from gaming companies directly
It isn't steams fault, don't blame them
finite saffron
Yeah all the complaints people have for EGS, origin, etc, are the exact same ones gamers had for Steam when it was becoming a thing haha
rapid yoke
Like direct your passion and activism at the problem itself
reef bobcat
I suppose steam existing makes it harder for other while steam didn’t have to fight a future steam
finite saffron
Only place I could see anyone having a case against Steam is their pseudo-monopoly they have against devs with their 30% cut shenanigans.
I just don't see that actually going anywhere, devs are a very small portion of Steam's userbase and the general public doesn't really care so long as they get their games.
sullen crane
remember steam also takes a cut of ANY micro transactions too anything being brought through steam they get a cut of the pie. lol but they are for the developers !!!!
rapid yoke
It's an area that needs competition that has been hard for competition to grab on
finite saffron
There's a reason devs are so ready to work with EGS, their cut is only 12%, and if your game is on unreal engine they drop that an additional 5%. On top of exclusivity deals and doing a MUCH better job at working directly with developers for things like promo, most devs love working with them lol
rapid yoke
But without steam, a lot of developers would have to work with publishers or would never get the reach that steam offers
a lot of that is on consumers for not wanting to adopt to other platforms though
sullen crane
yea but some of them force u to link your account
finite saffron
hence why every triple A studio has made there own lancher lol
Even then, unless you really have a game people want to seek out, often you'll take more than a 30% loss not being on the platform "everyone uses"
sullen crane
so u have to buy through them
rapid yoke
I have never seen that
sullen crane
blizzard does it
rapid yoke
Ah, I thought you just mean AAA games for sale on steam
Blizzard is a rare example though
sullen crane
u can link your steam account but u still need a blizzard account to play the game
so u can buy through blizzard
finite saffron
If a player is playing on Steam, it's actually in their TOS that you cannot direct them to make MTX purchases elsewhere. Can get the game removed
Or at least used to be, I haven't worked on a f2p game in a while
rapid yoke
You cannot buy blizzard games on steam
sullen crane
im talking about overwatch micro transactions
finite saffron
You cannot buy blizzard games on steam
Even they fell recently https://store.steampowered.com/app/2344520/Diablo_IV/
rapid yoke
right
like pretty sure I saw d4 on steam
and you can buy it right there and steam gets a cut
Also, blizzard is a large enough company
sullen crane
im talking about overwatch
rapid yoke
They can likely negotiate with steam for different contracts
rapid yoke
again, blizzard is an extremely rare case in this space
sullen crane
yea ik
rapid yoke
at the end of the day, holding a platform liable for a game studios mistakes is not the path you want to go down
Just hold the game studio liable
and be a wise consumer
sullen crane
so if the dealership sales u a car but they never verified if it in good quality?
who do u blame
the car dealer or the brand?
the dealer ship sold u the car
rapid yoke
Dealerships are not steam
sullen crane
just making a comparison
rapid yoke
but they aren't good comparisons
This would be like someone having a business that facilitates a lot in which people come with their car to sell to someone else
reef bobcat
Steam is kind of like amazon and there moves afoot of holding amazon responsible for the junk that is sold there.
rapid yoke
and steam is just the parking lot it happens in
sullen crane
Steam is kind of like amazon and there moves afoot of holding amazon responsible...
yes AMAZON is a good example
rapid yoke
Amazon is a better tie in, but they also will refund pretty much anything
reef bobcat
Amazon case is a bit different though. There is lot of false advertising around suppliments and other stuff that causes harm that is driving the talk. Steam being a digital game store doesn’t have this issue
rapid yoke
and their products can have actual harm
yeah
this is just digital media, not someone dying from taking too many mystery pills
reef bobcat
Im thankful at least that when I search for something on steam it’s the good stuff that comes first. Unlike amazon where trash fills up the first 40% of the search.
rapid yoke
idk man
I get weird adult games showing up all the time now in the store when searching for new/upcoming
never bought one in my life
like I just wanna see if there are any new coop games, or rpgs XD
reef bobcat
Ahh yes you have a point. But if I search for valheim, the first hit is valheim. If I did that on amazon hypothetically if amazon was a game store, I would get the knockoff f2p mtx laden alternatives first.
chrome kettle
let's not forget one of the other Biggest problems games have on the steam platform. Cheaters... Sure theres a Share of them on games off the platform but When a game comes to Steam ( Destiny 2 for example) the number of cheaters in the game where there were few and none before , skyrocket. i really hope Enshrouded Doesnt Fall into that list
rapid yoke
but cheating isn't a steam issue
it's a PC issue
and enshrouded is like coop multiplayer with private servers or set up p2p, cheating won't impact anyone
at all
merry moat
Considering enshrouded isn’t PvP there’s not really much a cheater can do except ruin the game for themselves
chrome kettle
Whats to keep a cheater from stealing all your Stuff like what happened to games like Smallands And ground?
reef bobcat
And for everyone if some cheats for resources end game stuff
rapid yoke
Whats to keep a cheater from stealing all your Stuff like what happened to g...
How are they getting into your server?
reef bobcat
There is currently nothing to lock stuff.
If someone is on a server, they can take stuff
rapid yoke
and you don't need to be a cheater to steal stuff in enshrouded if you get onto a server
but how are random people getting onto your server in the first place is the big question
lock that stuff down man
reef bobcat
Yeah. Playing with randos is a risk you take
merry moat
reef bobcat
Sorrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyy 😦
merry moat
You are right though, password your servers
merry moat
I only play with random 26
They’re a less superior version of me
And don’t ask what happened to the other 25
chrome kettle
Yeah. Playing with randos is a risk you take
I know just wish more Developers would put Anti greif protections in Co-op games.. because its a good way to Find people to Fill communities with and expand your Already formed gaming circles
reef bobcat
They might add stud later. But for ea at release there is none
chrome kettle
They’re a less superior version of me
had a Randon 22 and 23 once.. i oblitirared them when they stole my Coal.. havent seen them since 😛
rapid yoke
I know just wish more Developers would put Anti greif protections in Co-op ga...
The devs can only do so much, at some point the community needs to know its people and be cautious and attentive of the people they let in
With a game that maxes out at 16 people (and probably only 8 in EA), the devs really don't need to focus on protections that the server community should be managing
If stealinurstuff69 is being a crappy player to others, just manage it
when games are like 50-100 or more, then the devs should probably build more tools
reef bobcat
On the other hand, if you find a group, a high trust grp is amazing
rapid yoke
since as the community scales it gets harder to manage
Also you can back up your world saves, so before letting in a new person you may not trust, take a back up
reef bobcat
A means to blacklist would be nice
chrome kettle
If stealinurstuff69 is being a crappy player to others, just manage it
Oh i do in games like Valheim, V Rising, Space Enginners Empyrion 7 days and Etc i just Admin Wrath them till they Cry and then leave. only had one tyhat tried to fight back.. his Ddos was weak
rapid yoke
see easy
Now hopefully the devs build simple admin tools for those hosting servers and we're good to go!
sullen crane
peak marsh
And don’t ask what happened to the other 25
I'm imagining a situation where you all travel to each other's timelines and fight to gain each others powers. Ever see The One with Jet Li?
dapper path
https://youtu.be/0RePpKf8ym0?si=Dh3zjDLp6pX8IE69
This game going to be best drop for this month
chrome kettle
I'm imagining a situation where you all travel to each other's timelines and fig...
There can only be one
timber prism
It releases jan 19th
Not sure if you have gamepass but it will also be there in case you do
sullen crane
I have game pass but i don’t want it on console since it’s going support mods
timber prism
oh.. gamepass works on PC too haha
i use it for PC games that I play that are on it
i do believe some games are limited in terms of compatibility with mods though
timber prism
quaint cosmos
is that star wars?
timber prism
Star Wars wish it was this cool
misty arch
its palworld and it comes out on the 19th
obtuse scroll
https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-06-2021/xlJllK.gif
That poor pokemon! What a mean game, they enslave them, make them work in factories, use them as meat shields... ;___;
timber prism
That poor pokemon! What a mean game, they enslave them, make them work in factor...
Its so good haha
quaint cosmos
Finished Elden Ring, but I would not want to touch another FromSoftware souls-type game again, except for Armored Core 6. That game looks nice, at least. Just glad i could finally uninstall this game and have extra room for Enshrouded's updates and full size map in the future.
trim cobalt
I feel that.
I 100% elden ring and FromSoftware souls just don't have that flair anymore to me.
Don't even know if I wanna go back for the dlc. XD
rapid yoke
Elden Ring is amazing, but I think I prefer their more pathway style games. Open world souls was just too big for me
I feel like I'm actually makeing progress through the corridor
trim cobalt
agreed
quaint cosmos
there's a DLC too!? i hope there isn't achievements for it
rapid yoke
i personally just need my CS ban to be up so I can do something on this PC
quaint cosmos
i never played any Dark Souls game, but I'm just glad to finish a tough one. Blue Fire and Death's Door are both games I finished and never touched again.
quaint cosmos
i personally just need my CS ban to be up so I can do something on this PC
what is a CS ban?
rapid yoke
I get competitive cooldowns in counterstrike all the time
I have strong principles that don't mesh well with the community, so I'll just walk away from games with players I don't want to play with. Leads to a lot of comp cooldowns XD
shy oasis
I have strong principles that don't mesh well with the community, so I'll just w...
Aaah I just wanted to say, that this says a lot about you 😄
quaint cosmos
wow
quaint cosmos
its the name calling that is bothersome because they won 1 round in a game.