Boss Changes

[cinder turtle]

Bosses are actually boring. They are just larger, but that honestly just makes it easier to hit them. (by bosses i am implying the larger guys in champion)

• Bosses should be unable to go limp. This makes knocking them out harder unless you deal a serious blow that causes enough head damage to cause them to give up, or deal actual body damage. They will instead act like they do in the demo, where they run in a weird angle before falling (unless supported by a wall)

• You cannot rob bosses, and they are given better gear then you. This allows bosses to have a gear advantage at most of the game. (Relative to the tier)

• Add a boss to the riots.

-- experimental--

• Bosses can take gear off of you if they are a lower rank then you or if you are knocked out extensively they can attempt to grab your helmet. (APPLIES TO THE RIOTS)

--reasoning--

Bosses are boring. Champion is basically just a duel but worse. Buhurts and doubles are harder. Riots also need some improvement.

a

a

[cinder turtle]

💩 emoji
no explanation
W

[cinder turtle]

1 feedback
2 poop emojis
And that was in a different suggestion and it was positive feedback
Graaa

[burnt kraken]

100% agree

champions are frauds

[reef lion]

yeah I got all the way to baron literally not even knowing that bosses were in the game, I thought they were normal guys 💀

[quiet sparrow]

why would bosses be unable to go limp, that would be unrealistic

[cinder turtle]

They are very large men with larger heads and they should almost always have helmets, maybe not unable but it should be way harder (I don’t mean like if they are dead or if they are ragdolled but going limp from standing up)

[quiet sparrow]

if I hit you in the head with a solid kg of iron i think either way your falling

[cinder turtle]

Yes, you still fall

It’s replaced with the falling similar to the demos to make them harder to knock out

[slim pond]

i agree but lemme rob the bosses

or give unique rewards

basically i want more baron-esque enemies

[cinder turtle]

This is meant for the champion duels mainly but in this game it’s impossible to fight against tougher opponents beyond the baron

Unless you purposefully sabotage yourself

[slim pond]

ye ik i think we need unique enemies at lower tiers too like we had in the demo

guys u can actually remember and not just a generic willie on roids

[burnt kraken]

yes

the most iconic bosses were in the abyss only demo imo

[cinder turtle]

What bosses

I actually don’t know

I didn’t play abyss only demo

[slim pond]

Old demo (0.3) had its own bosses which were different from 0.5. Had some nice concepts, like themed group fights.

[cinder turtle]

what were the bosses

[slim pond]

1. grim reaper

2. the duelist and his 2 henchmen (duelist spawns first and the 2 henchmen follow a few moments later)

3. lantern gang

4. falchion boss

5. the knight and his squires

[cinder turtle]

interesting

[arctic atlas]

only thing agreeable is the first take and last one

[cinder turtle]

and why is that

[arctic atlas]

robbing bosses is fun

[cinder turtle]

bosses have the same gear as normal enemies in EA

you'd be better off going into a duel or a double match if you wanna rob enemies because they have more rounds

[cinder turtle]

(without the changes implemented here)

[hoary forge]

I think bosses should get more stamina so they swing faster and more frequently

[cinder turtle]

maybe

[golden sand]

that would be more annoying than interesting

the reason people liked the old bosses is cuz they had variety

no matter how much you try to speed up or fatten up the existing bosses it won't fix the lack of variety

[arctic atlas]

i'm sure they can make good bosses

i hope we get the old demo bosses but also new variants

[golden sand]

what should also be changed is the tourney system which forces you to not only fight 2 dudes but also a champion when they know the optimization ain't the best

it's even worse if you'rfe bringing mercenaries with you

[hoary forge]

the old bosses were actually a threat to the player if they didn't play right

[arctic atlas]

yeah because you died and lost all progress in one swing

oh yeah oooooops there's abyss

[cinder turtle]

the reason the old bosses were good is because they always had better gear then you tbh
i dont think any of them were actually that interesting beyond the peasant boss

which was interesting because of the scythe but the ai sucks at using the scythe

and then the commoner boss is just gretasword dude which since you get access to armor in the progression

yeah

the old bosses won't work man

you could try to implement them maybe (but youd likely require some of the features in here anyway)

[golden sand]

nah it was variety as well

even visual variety can help make it less repetitive

[cinder turtle]

honestly it could work if like

there was more stylized rounds

like maybe champion wasnt a 1 rounder but had you face against hench men

and then battle the champion

so like you battled 2 beggar dudes before and then got to the beggar boss (which with these changes could have the same gear it does now, or even better)

[slim pond]

new takes on em could work
rly we say they arent interesting but fact is ppl are still talking about commoner boss. so they were at the very least memorable, something which is sorely missing with the current system

imo having a foe that stays constant like that is a good thing

[ember silo]

this is true

the tourneys dont really feel that difficult

especially since you can just buy mercenaries to win them for you

i think the final round of the tourney should have the bosses from demo

[golden sand]

the worst thing in the ea for me is the floppy hands

i literally cannot hold a sword straight

it constantly wobbles around

[cinder turtle]

i think the lord tourney solo is pretty good difficulty, but like other then the early tourneys (beggar and peasant) the rest are easy because you jump up in muscle and gear to the point that you start outgearing everyone and once you outgear everyone the fights start to become easy

[sturdy ibex]

I miss them all

[alpine adder]

I can agree with this problems, but I can't do with almost of your suggestion.

[cinder turtle]

why not?

can you explain whats wrong with the suggestions

[alpine adder]

I can agree only with anti limping thing particially. Others are not reallistic or breaking balance. AI's can control their body as they want.
Like, spinning body quickly while they swing weapons but players can do much more hard. They already have advantages that we don't have. And, also we have advantages that they don't have.
They have to got little more resistence to limp when they got hit on their body. But, I can't agree with giving resistence to limp as demo except head. Because, that is not realistic.
This game is might not be historical game, but it is REALISTIC game.

[cinder turtle]

i looked up a video of a big guy getting knocked out by a smaller dude and it was similar to what i was describing

i mean like yeah thats possible but at the same time mannnn do they just go limp over everything

you cant rob the baron for instance

is that unrealistic

[alpine adder]

If there is quality differnce between other bosses armor and baron's armor, that make sense that the lock to fix his armor is much tighter.

And, that is realistic

[cinder turtle]

you can tear off curiasses in seconds

knight

[alpine adder]

Cause, he is baron. He is richest man among those bosses

[cinder turtle]

cuirasses

theres also gold material stuff

like the game is pretty realistic but like i dont know how making them not go limp as much is unrealistic

thats how it was like in the demo and 0 people complained

about realism

[alpine adder]

That is Game-wise permission. Will you like it if the way changes that way?

And demo is realistic enough to talk about realism, except bugs.

That is the reason why there was no one complaining about realistics in DEMO.

And, in Demo, there was only 1 vs 1. Cause of it, that made it let them to have some resistence against limp. But, There is minions in EA.

[cinder turtle]

not true

there were many team battles in demo

buhurts

brave stands

and carnages are multiple people battle

[alpine adder]

Aren't we talking abouts bosses? Why are you talking about normal hostiles?

[cinder turtle]

they dont have a resistance against limp in demo they didnt really go limp

[alpine adder]

You are breaking point of the argument.

[cinder turtle]

they took bad steps and fell

[alpine adder]

Cause they are not bosses dude 🙁

[cinder turtle]

dude are you

they never went limp in the demo from a head strike

at all

goign limp is a new thing

its why so many people complain about blunt damage

because they get hit in the head, go limp and fall

immediately

rather then having a chance to be able to stand up

[alpine adder]

So, what you are talking about is giving few resistence as they won't fall over on their own? Or is it about let them have resistence as ones in DEMO?

[cinder turtle]

resistance as the ones in demo
they wont go limp, they will take bad steps when they take a head hit that would normally be enough to go limp and probably fall but it will put up more of a fight

[alpine adder]

Then I'm still disagreeing to your comment. Unless your talking about doing it after all willie's balance got back to normal.

I feel like what you're trying to do is strengthen the bosses in a childish way. They are not using magic and this game's background is not Fantasy.

Think about why peoples are reacting negatively on this thread. It could be there are positive ones, but I had to say these.

[cinder turtle]

i dont know they dont say anything and the only guy that responded other then you said "i like to rob the bosses"

and some of them are also

raecting thumbs up

its weird

anyway no it isnt making them magically better they still fall and stuff like the demo, they just won't fucking go limp over nothing and them going limp is already really bad because you can just hit them over and over so easily

like what

[alpine adder]

Just let people judge. This makes me tired.

[cinder turtle]

this isnt magic thats a real concussion symptom

[cinder turtle]

more upvotes then downvotes idk man

[alpine adder]

Yeah, so I told you LET PEOPLE JUDGE. We dont know about they agreed to your every specific suggestions or did it only on title.
And, you requested to tell you the reason why there are some people reacting negatively.
That is why I'm wasting my time to exlpaining why I'm disagreeing to you

[cinder turtle]

you said "Think about why peoples are reacting negatively on this thread"

also yes i am annoyed when people dont give feedback and just click emojis

[alpine adder]

Do you mean there is no one reacted negative?>

[cinder turtle]

like when i posted the suggestion i got 2 poop emojis immediately from 2 people with a similar name and then one of them gave a thumbs up emoji long afterwards im convinced some of these people dont read the suggestion at all or read only a bit and its very annoying

[alpine adder]

You know that this thread is the most divided thread between likes and dislikes, right?

That can't be the reason that you are denying my expain why I disagree to you.

That is crossing line thing.

[cinder turtle]

what

when did i say that

no i actually like that you are engaging in a conversation instead of blindly clicking emojis or at least sayign why you dislike it

[alpine adder]

Your acting like that dude. Read your chat again. It could be feel like that to me.

[cinder turtle]

what

how am i acting like that

https://tenor.com/view/mrbeast-busting-all-over-gif-14394902971699414115

[alpine adder]

So, I told you the reason. And you are acting aggressive even there is no enough reason with.

[cinder turtle]

how am i acting aggressive

[alpine adder]

You are disrespecting my opinion for reply even you asked first.

[cinder turtle]

how am i disrespecting your opinion

what are you talking about

[alpine adder]

Did I tell you that is wrong? Your opinion? NO, I told you I can't agree with my FOV. But, you are talking like I'm wrong.

[cinder turtle]

i disagree with you so i think you are wrong yeah thats what disagreeing is
but like.. im not acting aggressive or disrespecting your opinion

[alpine adder]

You already did it, congrats buddy. Let me get the hell out of here. I don't want to waste my FUCKING TIME.

[cinder turtle]

aggressive over 0 reason

jesus

[cinder turtle]

anyway what i was going to say before you said you were going to leave was i dont think its magical to make them not go limp from a head hit as i did some research before of big guys being knocked out by smaller guys and saw a similar picture of them taking weird steps or falling rather then going completely limp

of course, they can, but like i think doing that would help it more, as currently all head hits do that. that is an assumption. some people just stand when going unconscious.

yes, i disagree with you. i want you to point out how i am being aggressive also. because i have no idea how i am being aggressive

[alpine adder]

Check your fucking words again that you used. Also, You clearly told me that others have different opinion with me as they are right and I'm wrong. Do you think there is only one answer in the Fucking world? I can sure that is aggressive enough to turn me on with Fucking rage.
Don't fuck with me.

[cinder turtle]

ok you know what'

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Seriously.

You literally said "let people judge"

and i replied to that by saying "more upvotes then downvotes idk man"

how is that aggressive

how did i say any of that

[alpine adder]

So I told you this thread has most divided reaction

That doesn't mean everyone agreeing with you.

[cinder turtle]

when did i say any of that

you fucking bitch bro do you read what i say or are you just here to provoke a reaction and act like im the bad one

[alpine adder]

You're acting like a self-absorbed, narcissistic person

[cinder turtle]

if you are going to say "Let people judge" then your opinion is "wrong" because it has more upvotes then downvotes by a significant enough margin

i dont know man you haven tbeen quoting anything

you have just been saying that i have been aggressive

and thats pissing me off because you are insultign me and degrading my argument

your first language might not be english tbh and thats ok because nothing of what i have said has been aggressive

[cinder turtle]

oh btw i didnt say your opinion was wrong at all before

[alpine adder]

LMAO if you can't accept different opinion against yours, just keep them inside your mind.
I can't talk or write as natives but I know the way how you talk to me.
Don't fuck with me. Don't make me say this again.

[cinder turtle]

"don't fuck with me"

oh my god shut the fuck up man why are you acting like the victim i did not do any of that shit

[dusty blade]

I think their kits should be pre-arranged. The best part of the demo grete champions was the unique gameplay they brought imo, one guy was armored head to toe except for the top of his head so you killed him with an overhead swing. Another had his eyes exposed, testing your thrusting or half swording. It was honestly pretty engaging imo, the way they are now they’re just beefed up regular enemies

Mb for pinging you the topic kinda changed as I wrote

[alpine adder]

I already fucking told you I don't want to waste my time with this arguments. And you are keeping pulling me out with your fucking replies while ating like you want to make me fucking tired..

Are you sure that is not aggressive too? Are you sure?

[cinder turtle]

the last message i sent before this dissolved into you acting like a victim was me clarifying what i was saying

in total

are we srs

[alpine adder]

Insulting people is not the only thing that called aggressive

[cinder turtle]

???

i kept asking you on how i was acting like that and i got 0 response

please quote something that shows me being "aggressive"

[alpine adder]

That is the fucking respone. I'm not your fucking parents. I have some stuffs to do. I used my precious time to explain you why I disagree you. And after that I explained you few more reasons why I fucking disagree you.
And you are KEEP FUCKING PULLING ME OUT.

Let me just block you for a while

[cinder turtle]

i told you to shut the fuck up when you started being angry. i would've stopped replying to you if you didnt feel a intrinsic need to keep ocming back if you are just going to be an asshole.

i dont know how i was being aggressive there.

end of story

😭

has a normal discussion
gets angry over nothing
gets asked why are you calling me aggressive
gets more angry
i tell him to shut the fuck up
doesnt shut the fuck up

simple.
i know with how you were acting that you are probably clicking the show message option anyway

ok time to talk to normal people

[cinder turtle]

ok after calming down and getting some water yeah that could be interesting

[cinder turtle]

i think though that there could be some improvements? i think having hench men could be a fun idea

or like really small guys

and then one big guy

or someone that likes to jump and jumps high or is really muscular and has a big polearm but is pretty unarmored

[alpine adder]

WOW I checked with this one about how worse incel,sociopath,narssicist you are.😂
I have to keep this block permanently.
Thx for letting me filter this one of the worst dickheads, jesus and discord.

He's just a coward who can't tell himself honestly what he said or how he did it.
Congrats buddy, you show us how deep your bottom is.

[slim pond]

My oh my

[cinder turtle]

I asked you for proof and you gave nothing. You are just a bitch. I was right when I said you were just trying to act like a victim. This is not acting hostile in any regard.

I even predicted you would show message. You just act like a victim when you get angry.

[snow stratus]

mid ahh suggestion

[slim pond]

the bosses ARE boring tho

[quiet sparrow]

ill allow you pinging me, but JUST this once pal

[lunar sedge]

dw your not the only person who thinks this guy is crazy

[cinder turtle]

thank you

[burnt kraken]

why did people poop emoji this

[cinder turtle]

i dont know

like 2 people actually gave feedback (lightbulb was an asshole about it though and then suddenly started saying that im being aggressive because hes crazy)

and one of the feedback was just "i cant rob the bosses"

?????

and i think tuesday is just angry that i dissed on his suggestion because some of his complaints and proof for his complaints were so ahh

"how was i knocked out" in a first blood gamemode where he got cut

[burnt kraken]

holy crap that lightbulb guy was projecting

also why do people use incel as an insult without even knowing what that shit means lmao

[burnt kraken]

atleast be happy your suggestion wasn't absolutely DESTROYED by a hivemind

😭

[cinder turtle]

"make zombies not weak shits"

DENIED.

i have a skill issue.

[burnt kraken]

this is like the most downvoted suggestion in the story of the server btw

[cinder turtle]

genuinely i dont understand some peoples skill issue with this game

[burnt kraken]

people really want to make the already easy game even easier

[cinder turtle]

like its even easier then the demo

WHY

WHY IS IT EASIER THEN THE DEMO

why can i hire mercenaries

[slim pond]

i mean the abyss imo is the one none easy part

[burnt kraken]

they must be roblox kids

[cinder turtle]

i can already do buhurts on my own

what the flip

[slim pond]

only mode harder than the demo

[burnt kraken]

it's easy unless you run around like an idiot

[cinder turtle]

LIESS

LIEEESSS

with armor its so easy

[slim pond]

cept u never find armor

[cinder turtle]

the only time i've died in the abyss is because a zombie somehow bit through my helmet

[burnt kraken]

like the only reason people die in the abyss is because of huge and certified skill issue

[slim pond]

cause nothing ever fucking spawns

[cinder turtle]

so its because they have nothing spawning in

GRAAAAAAAAAA

[burnt kraken]

yes you do

[cinder turtle]

wait

can't you just

strip zombies

for gear

im gonna try that actually

[slim pond]

if u can make it before they despawn ye

[burnt kraken]

yeah not only that but the suggestion with 50 downvotes was mostly complaining about the progession abyss is not a challenge at all

[cinder turtle]

you can just knock em out

[slim pond]

but usually by the time the armored ones show up i get bit from behind

prog abyss is trivial

[cinder turtle]

exactly

[burnt kraken]

both are easy really

like these mfs don't even hold their weapons atp

they just drop them for whatever reason

[slim pond]

its not the weapons that are the issue for most its the bite

[burnt kraken]

the wimpy ass bite that doesn't do shit?

[slim pond]

if that bite is anywhere near ur face it insta kills u

[burnt kraken]

I've been doing an abyss run in hard mode (First person, only source of light is a flashlight that turns off when I run) and let's say I've been jumpscared a couple times and look

[slim pond]

nah thats not how its like for me

[burnt kraken]

even then I've still survived face bites, also if you let them get that close then you probably deserve it

the only instakill part I think is the neck

also them being weak shits makes abyss in progression a chore

I only had to fight 17 zombies last time and that was so boring I wanted to kill myself

💔

honestly idk why people say they're harder than regular npcs

[slim pond]

in prog theyre trivial its the endless mode where it gets troublesome

im taking it for a walk

[burnt kraken]

I mean I get that, but remember that to have to go through abyss in prog mode you have to:

1.-Die, which is already hard by itself.

2.-Forget to pay the seer

3.- Being an absolute ruthless fucker

can the "punishment" for all that atleast be challenging and fun?

it feels like a damn chore

(endless abyss is still kinda fun tho)

[slim pond]

i see where ur coming from

honestly i almost never go abyss in prog mode unless im nerfing myself (and even then its 1-2 zombies)

[burnt kraken]

@slim pond

[slim pond]

inspired me to a run

zombie silently snuck up on me from behind

anyway ye change bosses make em special like before

[burnt kraken]

and not mentally special like now

[burnt kraken]

why does it say 1325 souls

[slim pond]

its the endless variant

[burnt kraken]

no ik but that number is always incorrect

like u kill one guy and it says "25 souls cleansed"

[slim pond]

its prolly a leftover from the demo abyss where it was just ur score

so 1325 is like millitia-soldier tier abyss

[snow stratus]

projecting like crazy lmao

the world does NOT revolve around you big bro 🙏

[cinder turtle]

????

[burnt kraken]

What is this guy even talking about

😭

[snow stratus]

this guy scout joins the server and immediately starts stirring shit up in a load of suggestions for no reason

[slim pond]

Unique bosses bump it up give em identity

[cinder turtle]

“Stirring up shit in a load of suggestions” you mean I discuss the game?? I didn’t stir up any shit except when lightbulb misinterpreted what I was saying.. which means I didn’t even stir it up like what

Even in your fucking thread there are like multiple people echoing what I am saying because it’s so weird to be complaining about losing in a specific way because you chose a game mode and got cut

[gloomy grove]

Some of the demo bosses allways scare the shit out of me, mostly the peasant and the commoner ones. I really like the soldier rank boss too. I think the thing the current bosses need mostly is drip and being scary. I saw some of these spawned randomly, so ugly that I hurried to kill them just to get them out of my sight.

[snow stratus]

you're ignoring my entire suggestion and cherrypicking one fucking message

[cinder turtle]

You mean 5 messages and a major point of your suggestion

And also the whole instakill thing is stupid you got speared in the chest what do you want them to do

Low damage mainly applies to blunt anyway

[cinder turtle]

Actually more (and you doubled down)

[arctic atlas]

robbing is fun

you wouldn't understand

[gloomy grove]

Who doesn't like undressing big buff champions?

[sly nimbus]

what i think they should do is add more bosses to the baron rank because after fighting the baron your pretty much done with the game and theirs nothing much else to do

[gloomy grove]

I want to fight animals like in gladio and glory, stuff like wolves and tigers maybe a boss with a pack of hunting dogs. There currently are only unkillable waspes and a dead horse in the game so i guess that some varierty is good. Oh and also
There are zombies and reincarnation already so if we get more fantasy stuff we could fight mythological creatures such as hydras and dragons, it could be cool too

[burnt kraken]

you're 100% a blox fruits player

[burnt kraken]

me

[arctic atlas]

people on the internet love assuming things you do not do

[burnt kraken]

you can get too op in low ranks too easily

[burnt kraken]

whatever u are that's a terrible terrible take

this was my build at soldier rank son

like

the game gets too easy

[arctic atlas]

the ai feels insanely downgraded tho
sometimes they just act too stupid or just wait for you to rush them

[burnt kraken]

idk what you mean with downgraded because it def is better than the demo

but that's not even the point

[arctic atlas]

it's not bro

[burnt kraken]

and if you really feel they downgraded it then you should agree with ts

😭

[arctic atlas]

i was playing brawl on cellar and i was like way far from the willie

he kept like

raising his hands

instead of just rushing me

[burnt kraken]

gawddamn why does everyone say this without even actually comparing them

🤦‍♂️

[arctic atlas]

i did
in the demo they parried and blocked the player's attack more effectively

now it seems that they dont even do that

[snow stratus]

agreed

it feels like they made the ai dumb and to balance it made weapons more deadly

or.. perchance the ai is dumber because the EA we got is an earlier build made before AI improvements...

https://tenor.com/view/tinfoil-hat-gif-19189292

[north pebble]

Not just that he's also cooking

He has different patterns than regular swords opponent

Demo boss were more deadly imo, i feel like the reason they might be better than ea boss is that they're harder to take down but they also have more variety to them compared to regular opponents

They really stand out compared to ea bosses, for example during tourney sometime i don't even know wich one is the boss until i realise wich one is taller etc

They're more geared than regular opponents tho, we couldn't take away the ability to rob them

We need maybe to buff their health tho because they go down too easely imo

[sly nimbus]

Honestly I didn’t even know the game had bosses until someone here mentioned it

They are literally just slightly more buff normal npc they are pretty much indistinguishable from other enemy’s

Like when I played the demo for half sword you could immediately tell him when you got to the boss

[north pebble]

The demo boss are truly harder to take down compared to regular opponents (in terms of blunt damage), i know this for a fact because i got the gauntlet speedrun wr and some boss can be a big timeloss. The demo boss also survive losing limbs or handle better limbs damage compared to regular opponents. If on ea boss had buffed health they would be more scary, if they also really were standing out compared to regular opponents (they could have very particular armors/custom weapons) then they would be more feared, the baron is kinda the only boss that fits that category currently, and some commoner boss as well because they use halberds/spears/flails wich can be scary to fight at that rank especially considering they have more strength than regular opponents.

Buffing their health and upgrading their gear and making them more original is the key to make ea boss as good or better than demo boss

[sly nimbus]

I remeber trying to fight the commoner boss with a massive long sword

I lost to that guy so many times dude

[north pebble]

Yeah he's cooking bro

He has great speed and technique

Actual danger

During a speedrun he has that rng where he will kill me no matter what sometimes

[north pebble]

Yeah since day one i noticed the flaws of ea boss

But it's still very early for ea

Surely the devs have better ideas in the future for bosses

[sly nimbus]

But it’s still so crazy how the ea is such a down grade to the demo I genuinely have no idea what happened to the AI

[north pebble]

They're not dumb they know how to make good bosses, they made demo bosses so 100% they know how to make good ea bosses

At least that's how i see it

Eventually they'll rework them

[sly nimbus]

Yeah that’s true

[north pebble]

I kinda feel like the ai has oore variety but i remember on the demo sometime the ai was really crazy

On the demo it's like the ai has less attack patterns

At least for unarmored opponents

On ea the poles opponents spam the overheads too much tho

[arctic atlas]

EA feels like they love some certain patterns too much

i seen willies that love doing the half sword grip or just parrying like if their life depended on it

[jade solar]

Tbf some of the demo bosses were jokes, like the two with shields being absolutely easy to breeze through

[slim pond]

Sure but they were distinct unlike the current champions

[cinder turtle]

There are major problems with implementing demo bosses right now or even just improved bosses in general because of how gear works

In demo you would have balanced gear and the champion would have better gear with something that’s terrifying to deal with most of the time

[north pebble]

They got better gear in ea too btw

[cinder turtle]

I feel like they don’t

[north pebble]

Nah they have 100%, beggar bosses often got gambeson and doublets, peasant too, commoner got breastplate and helmets, etc

[cinder turtle]

If they did then it becomes negligible as soon as you do a couple of fights and become more armored then the average guy

[north pebble]

Every boss kinda got that one rank above gear in ea

[cinder turtle]

They do? I distinctly doubt that the devs said something about giving peasants gambesons or smth

[north pebble]

Veteran boss are heavily geared for example during a run i know for a fact when i get veteran i will strip down the first boss i encounter of their knight cuirass, cuisses etc

[north pebble]

Oh yes for sure, i mean if you really care about seeing it i have a full game run uploaded no deaths

[cinder turtle]

So you only need to do one champion fight to have the same gear as them..

[north pebble]

I know boss are geared for a fact after replaying the game enough times

[cinder turtle]

😭

[north pebble]

Even regular beggar got gambeson sometime lol

Rarely tho

[north pebble]

That's why i'm saying they need buffed health

They feel too easy to kill, like regular opponent

On demo the demo the bosses are harder to kill, both in terms of blunt and limbs damage

Chest damage i believe are the same tho

Taking down a champion has to be rewarding tho so i don't think we shouldnt be allowed to take their gear

[cinder turtle]

it seems like blunt though is too powerful in general, but i dont think they take less limb damage

i think the issue was more so that they were tall enough and the gear was balanced to where it was hard to hit above a certain point, and now in this game thats fucking nonsense you can go for head strikes anyway

[north pebble]

What i was saying is that on the demo you could cut a leg off a boss and he'll still fight

When in general the average enemy will instantly surrender

[cinder turtle]

lies??????

[north pebble]

I grinded gauntlet speedrun wr and i can confirm 100% that the boss take way more blunt damage in order to surrender

Bro i played every boss countless times lmao

Why would i lie

[cinder turtle]

i've had the exact opposite

i've cut arms off of them and they instantly surrender

even without losing a weapon

why would the legs be any different

how would that even work

https://giphy.com/gifs/scout-tf2-9hmRlw9uERYn1sjAYm

[north pebble]

Litteraly cutting the commoner boss leg and he's still swinging like nothing happens most times

Stabbing his leg with the pitchfork is not enough many times he doesn't surrender, when litteraly every normal opponent will get hurt and will stop fighting

For the arms it's the same for me

[cinder turtle]

i've had the exact opposite

[north pebble]

Even regular willies will sometime fight with a severed arm but less often compared to bosses

[cinder turtle]

i've stabbed them in the legs and they surrender as soon as i slam them into a fence

[north pebble]

Bro you realise in order to get a speedrun wr i had to kill the same boss like 200+ times

And like so many regular willies

Pitchfork until soldier boss

Rest with wartsaff

And Yes boss are harder to kill 100%

They won't always resist a leg shot with the pitchfork but many times they will

And regular willies wont

But the most blatant difference is blunt damage

Regular willies will consistently surrender in 1-2 shots with the warstaff

Boss requires more, unless it's veteran boss (no helmet)

And on ea the boss gets cooked equally by one shot with a poleaxe, even the baron on ea gets one tapped

[glacial crater]

keep in mind, that was the same guy who told me i was illiterate because he misinterpreted my bug report, so take what he says with a considerable degree of salt

[north pebble]

yeah he doesn't seem to understand what i'm trying to explain

[leaden hazel]

Pls Stop Crying Despair

[harsh drift]

okay now this is just unbeatable

[glacial crater]

yeah, and his tendency to be rude while also completely misunderstanding the situation isn't exactly appreciated

[north pebble]

who are you 💀

[cinder turtle]

i thought it was that you removed everything else you had equipped and then couldnt take off the other shit 😭
i was a bit rude about it cuz i thought you werent understanding me in the first place cuz i said it like 3 times before u gave a clip properly explaining what was happening

anyway i dont know how im even misunderstanding despair

[zinc coral]

Well this is an entertaining thread

[cinder turtle]

✅

also adding on i am pretty sure that despair could just be stabbing lower then normal because hes speedrunning

i dont think theres a "resist thing" because more then likely hes stabbing in a different spot like in the knee or slightly above it which is causing his differing take cuz really stabbing them in the thigh and ramming em seems to almost always cause them to give up

[north pebble]

i aim for the crotch, easy one tap, chest can be trickier

[north pebble]

i mean no matter what i say you don't really understand

so if you wanna believe the demo boss and regular willies have same health then go for it

[cinder turtle]

i dotn think they have a differing level of tolerance just the size makes it harder to aim for their weakspots or they have slightly more muscle strength i've downsized bosses to normal willie height before using enhancer and they have the same health and shit as a normal willie

[north pebble]

nah they truly have different health and level of tolerance

[cinder turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/ragebait-bait-jojo-jjba-jojo's-bizarre-adventure-gif-11159617522698492937

[north pebble]

if you put a pitchfork in a normal willie's leg/hand/arm/foot they will surrender eventually if you hold it there

everytime

[cinder turtle]

same with the bosses what

[north pebble]

nah that's what im saying

the boss sometime they will keep on fighting

[cinder turtle]

the fact its "chance" leads me to believe that you are just hitting slightly lower or less vulnerable parts and saying "why are they continuing to fight"

thers no CHACNE.

[north pebble]

i see it a lot with the commoner boss and the militia boss, even with the pitchfork in their limb they get stunned and cry then eventually will go back to normal and fight, it's not everytime but it happens

bro wym i'm telling you it's the whole limb who cares lower or not

it can be on the toe a normal willie will surrender

same for the finger

but then again you can believe what you want

but personally after having to fight these boss too many times with the pitchfork i know this happens with them

but never with normal willies

[snow stratus]

and that's the point?

[glacial crater]

I've slammed bosses in the side of the head with a hammer before, a strike that would immediately floor a regular willie, and they stumbled back and eventually got back up

they are much more resilient than the average willie

[north pebble]

yeah the blunt damage is the most blatant health difference between demo willies and bosses

they can tank way more blunt

and still stand

[cinder turtle]

That’s true but stabbing I don’t think so

[glacial crater]

the man at arms (i think) boss, without the helmet, is the best example of this. you can whack him over the head and it'd normally cave a regular willie's skull in and he just keeps going

[north pebble]

too bad i didn't clip the hundreds of fights i did against them because you would know

even with a severed leg the commoner boss will still fight and try to swing lol

[snow stratus]

what even is the arguement here

[glacial crater]

stabbing is pretty damn inconsistent. however, I have noticed that when using the pitchfork, most willies surrender as soon as you stab them in the thigh, but with bosses they actually keep going for a few seconds and if you don't continue to jam it into their leg they recover while limping a bit

[glacial crater]

scout is saying that boss willies in the demo have the same pain tolerance and health as regular willies, while having better equipment
at least from what I can tell
despair is refuting this

[north pebble]

yeah i had many occasions of the commoner boss still swinging even with a pitchfork still inside his leg

[snow stratus]

yeah no they dont

how many shit takes is scout going to defend

[snow stratus]

i can concur with this, my strat for the commoner boss is just to bumrush him with the sword stabbing forward, and usually it takes a few seconds of swivelling it around in there for him to fall

[glacial crater]

yeah

[snow stratus]

while with normal willies they give up immediately

[glacial crater]

I've gotten so pissed at the commoner boss because I've literally stabbed him clean through the leg and he still went off to chase and decapitate me

[north pebble]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GDpXWihZE

i got an example btw

at 2:32

exactly what i was explaining

this is an older vid tho

but yeah the boss will often do this, regular willies will never recover from the initial stun, they just surrender

[snow stratus]

once i quite literally sliced the boss' arm off, he surrendered, dropped his sword, his sword got momentum after hitting his falling arm and then flung straight through my head

[north pebble]

even with severed legs they still fight too lol

i don't think normal willies do that

[glacial crater]

i really wish you'd clipped that

[snow stratus]

im so pissed i didnt

before that happened to me i was playing skyrim which doesnt like medal so i had to close medal

[umbral ledge]

I honestly like the Champions. Maybe there's a way to tweak something but I got an idea for how to get the REAL BOSSES back in:

Add the unique bosses in the Tourneys! Sort of like the Baron for the Lord's Tourney in the EA version.

There was always a larger guy among the three enemy combatants in the last round of the Tourneys (excluding Lord Tourney) but I think they could be replaced with the unique boss. Maybe they could repeat a boss from the Demo in one of the Tourneys but I believe they should start anew for each rank.

[cinder turtle]

😭 you cannot be talking these people got reasons to be fair (your ass was complaining about instantly dying from getting stabbed in the chest and for losing in first blood)

Idk that’s what I experienced in the demo maybe they have slightly more tolerance but for me I didn’t really feel it

Y’all are really defensive though

[glacial crater]

and you aren't?

[cinder turtle]

https://giphy.com/gifs/scout-tf2-9hmRlw9uERYn1sjAYm

nope

not at all

this is NOT true information

[glacial crater]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1284690311075069952/1445852326832115744/attachment-2.gif

[cinder turtle]

but yall are more defensive i win

https://tenor.com/view/mario-and-luigi-brothership-eureka-gif-14222622004683338367

[lunar sedge]

🤫

[north pebble]

it's not even a maybe tbh

i sent you an example

you just prefer to believe what you want, idm at all i'm just saying it's what you're doing

[cinder turtle]

stab location appears to be different

its in the thighs or crotch while the other stabs even on commoner was on the guts

1:21 (stab to the thigh doesnt cause an insta give up, writhing in pain, seems to give up after like 2 seconds of the pitchfork being in him, also pushed to the ground and dropped weapon)
3:32 (behavior is the same as the miltia boss was acting)

[radiant delta]

i like fighting the bosses but id be willing to give the "no robbing" a shot because once i grab better gear the game is usually won for me at that point

and also lowkey I'd love the idea of riot enemies being able to rob your gear if you get knocked down so they're actually a threat

[north pebble]

you seem to be missing the point again so i will fully explain again, when stabbing in the leg/arm a regular willie will get stunned and then give up soon after (unless the pitchfork is removed right away), but for bosses even if you still got the pitchfork in their leg/arm they can recover the stun and start fighting again, normal willies don't do this

i was only showing you the example of the militia boss recovering

i know that a crotch stab is always fatal

this isn't what we were talking about earlier

[radiant delta]

in the demo the bosses do have quite the resilience

[cinder turtle]

against blunt yeah but i dont think they have a resilience to giving up from stabs or anything

[radiant delta]

most attacks that are just enough to down a willie would be shrugged off by a boss in my experience

[north pebble]

and another example to this is that very often when you cut their leg off the demo boss still keep on fighting, they litteraly start jumping on one leg and try to fight

[cinder turtle]

ill go play the demo for a bit and test this

[radiant delta]

i think stabs do insane damage if you stick in there and move it around

[cinder turtle]

this is true

[radiant delta]

like if you get stabbed with lowest damage you'd still take damage

thats how powerful it is

[cinder turtle]

lowest damage effects blunt

[north pebble]

bro i litteraly showed you an example lmao and i keep telling you since earlier that i've seen this situation countless times, it's not everytime but sometime a pitchfork in their leg and they're still going

[cinder turtle]

this is also true

[radiant delta]

I think it would be accurate to say that bosses have a higher resillience but not by too much, when it comes to stabs it can be sometimes inconsistent (sometimes willies can take a stab and then one moment just instantly die)

[north pebble]

yeah and normal willies always give up, i never saw a regular opponent not giving up with a pitchfork in the leg while i'm actively moving it inside it, but bosses i saw it many times

[radiant delta]

you were playing on normal damage correct

[north pebble]

yes vanilla

[radiant delta]

oh thats scary

i dont use stabbing weapons that much so i wouldn't know much about that

i just love merging their skulls with my mace

[north pebble]

i can litteraly recall dying to the commoner boss way too many times because he just don't care about leg stabs

[cinder turtle]

i feel that its more of a bias
where the bosses have more gear and higher size which makes it harder to deal damage to vital points
but like maybe? i dont know if theres code proving this or anything i know the enhancer didnt have anything about it and the enhancer had a lot of things that got implemented into the EA

like sizes and strength and jumping even

[north pebble]

well no matter what i'm telling you it will never be real for you you just keep saying it's biased etc

[radiant delta]

I can't really say its a bias when there's many instances where I struck the commoner boss in points that would otherwise be fatal to a normal willie

and he just kind of shrugged it off and killed me

[cinder turtle]

im going to go fucking test it

i dont have other examples to pick from i just have a boss getting stabbed in the thigh getting pushed up into the wall then giving up

[north pebble]

go ahead, send me a clip of a willie with a pitchfork in the leg that you're actively moving and see if he starts fighting again (impossible i never saw it)

[cinder turtle]

i dont think they do that im pretty sure its bias but il lgo test it

[radiant delta]

this is not concrete evidence but for the old abyss demo, the bosses there objectively had more health because they took so much shit before dying

[north pebble]

you realise that to get speedrun wr i had to kill a crazy amounts of opponent with the pitchfork, including bosses but it's still a lot less than regular opponents

[radiant delta]

it could be the same scenario for the demo bosses, just tone down

[north pebble]

because i did many attempts back then

[north pebble]

He litteraly starts fighting again btw

idk how you're not seeing it

he stops crying and start swinging on my legs again then eventually he gives up, and no normal willie does this

they don't resume their attacks, they just surrender

but like i don't have the clips but there was countless moments where this happens with the commoner boss and he swings and one tap me

he stops crying then fights again and one shot me

[cinder turtle]

ok so first test:
stab in the knee, didnt give up after pain animation had commenced i pulled it out a second being in

but thats a stab to the knee

let me try to get a clean stab into the thigh

[north pebble]

don't pull it out

keep moving it in him

he will never fight again

always surrender

i never saw it in thousands of kills with pitchfork, considering the hundreds of speedrun attempts that's about right in terms of pitchfork kills

[cinder turtle]

i got it into the thigh and hes surrendering now because he dropped his weapon from the pain

but it took like 2 seconds while i was rotating him around in a full circle lol

[north pebble]

yeah it takes a bit, sometime more

but they don't fight as soon as the pitchfork is in them it's a win

if it's in the hand or toe they can fight again tho

[cinder turtle]

hmm

let me check if lower damage means higher pain tolerance

cuz i know ti reduces blunt damage

but it might be that bosses are put slightly lower on the damage settings for them or smth

[north pebble]

idk how they make them but they need a buff in ea, it's what i was saying earlier, we need more solid bosses compared to regular opponents

[cinder turtle]

thats true yeah

hmm

it seems that they usually give up after they drop their weapon cuz of pain rather then giving up while having their weapon like i see them do sometimes

now damage test

the same thing happened

they drop their weapon and instantly give up

stab to the knee on this damage

ok let me just put it to the max and see if theres a difference

ok i held him in it and he walked backwards out of it and now hes looking at me like that

yeah ok i think bosses justg have lower damage compared to guys and that does effect stabbing it seems

just slightly

[north pebble]

they drop their weapon because they're giving up, they got too much pain so they're done basically

[cinder turtle]

how did you live that stab

he aitn swinging at me anymore though

oh hes completely glitched out'

yeah ok

hmm soooo

i think that bosses have less damage taken in total like the damage settings, which is why they have blunt resistance and slight stab resistance, just not to the extreme end like this how did he live a chest stab

@north pebble yeah so ur right? maybe?

yeah

probably

[north pebble]

yeah they die the same in the chest or crotch

[cinder turtle]

why did he give up actually he wasnt even close to giving up then i dragged him around using the pitchfork around his hands not even impaling him

[north pebble]

i mean i was telling you after way too many kills i rly know, but i noticed it very quick when i started doing some speedrun

[cinder turtle]

was it considered like he was on the ground

and i had the pitchfork on his neck

lmao

thats insane

[north pebble]

yeah idk about this at all but sometime i stab them then if i take it out right away many times they survive, and if i don't do anything they start fighting again, but if i start giving them light blunt taps with the pitchfork they give up

idk if the ai consider it's over if you tap them when they're still crying before they start to fight again or something

or maybe it's false, i didn't test this at all

[cinder turtle]

"light blunt taps with the pitchfork" the pitchfork does a lot of blutn damage

like its actually insane how much blunt damage the pitchfork does

[north pebble]

I know 😂

I was saying i just give them gentle taps on the body

Not full force or anything

To trigger the surrender

[cinder turtle]

i think it might be you triggering the weapon on the neck detection or smth

if ur weapon is near the neck top of the chest or around the head it causes the guy to give up

if you make them fall

[north pebble]

No i meant when they're standing up

Just right after i took the pitchfork out

[snow stratus]

Bro shut the fuck up

[radiant delta]

thats mean :(

[cinder turtle]

😭

lol

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1291309803318018121/1464106977058881601/meltedchocolatee-aiscream-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

typing ANGRILY.

[snow stratus]

He is too fucking intellectually disabled to comprehend anything other than porn and being stabbed by a spear in half sword

[cinder turtle]

where did this porn thing even come from

https://tenor.com/view/scout-tf2-scout-gif-3191668317629985339

this makes no sense gng

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1459982009559683154/1460024220745597132/and-then-he-clicked-post.gif

[cinder turtle]

He is too fucking stupid to make a coherent statement that adds something to the conversation

[lunar sedge]

maybe make bosses a lil harder

[cinder turtle]

To be fair you did jump him

Wait that was a hit to the arm

Why did he fall like that

Baron justice bro