Punishing the player for killing is lame and discourages weapon variety in the early game.

[distant minnow]

It's no big deal once the money starts flowing in and you're able to pay off the Abyss guy. The problem is that you make so little money in the early game that you're pretty much forced to either deal with a bunch of dangerous zombies in the Abyss or pick up a blunt weapon when the game's current balance already leans waaaay towards blunt damage.
It's a shame because the early game unarmored fights are the most fun part of the game for me and they should be where cutting damage really shines from both a realism perspective and a gameplay balance perspective.

[remote snow]

They should make the zombies weaker and not have them bite as much

[distant minnow]

Overall, I like the idea of having to choose between sparing your opponents or killing them and dealing with the consequences, but the way it is now heavily encourages weapon monotony in a game where one of the main appeals is the variety of big sticks you can beat your opponents with.

[distant minnow]

I'm okay with the zombies being very dangerous enemies that can quickly send you back to the character creator screen if you aren't careful. My issue is that the current system can be completely bypassed by picking the weapons that are already the strongest weapons currently in the game - blunt weapons.

@austere socket @small otter @bold cove So why do you guys disagree? Asking bc there could be some nuance to this that I'm missing.

[small otter]

I always felt like mercy should be rewarded

[gray atlas]

I got up to militia with 0 kills, just submissions

[small otter]

And there should be a sense of moral obligation to murder

I really liked the idea that each person you killed in the game comes back to drag you to hell

[pastel sphinx]

i love how it works i just wish maybe zombie bites weren't so lethal. doesnt really even make sense to get bit in the chest and now you're paralyzed.

each zombie is like a die roll. if the zombie falls forward from your attack and they bite you it's over. which makes the abyss feel so bad.

i would honestly rather fight like 4+ zombies at once with reduced bite power.

[distant minnow]

I don't disagree, but I think the way it's implemented now just punishes you for using cool fun weapons like axes.
You can argue that you can go for submissions by chopping off limbs but that's way less fun than chopping skulls

[pastel sphinx]

if you want to kill people you should look at the amount of zombies in the abyss as a badge of honor and just not die. or just pay them off with all your cash from winning so hard.

[austere socket]

Half Sword’s core fantasy isn’t “you are a lethal medieval warrior,” it’s “you are a barely competent human flailing through physics.” Early access combat leans hard into awkwardness. In that context, blunt weapons being stronger early is almost inevitable. They’re forgiving in a system where hit alignment, edge orientation, distance, and timing are all unstable. A mace doesn’t care if your swing is ugly. A sword absolutely does.
That matters because early-game Half Sword characters aren’t just unarmored they’re unskilled. The game currently has no robust way to represent “I know how to cut properly but I’m poor,” so it substitutes with physics noise. Blunt damage winning early isn’t a balance opinion, it’s a side effect of how the simulation works today.
About zombies and the Abyss pressure: yes, it feels bad that the game funnels you toward blunt. But that funnel is doing survival-horror work. Zombies don’t flinch, don’t bleed meaningfully, and don’t care about shallow cuts. That’s not anti-realism; it’s genre logic. If cutting weapons were excellent against them early, zombies would stop being a threat and turn into walking loot bags, which completely undercuts the Abyss as an early risk gate. (Enhanced by AI)

[warped mantle]

Zombie bites are way too lethal, but other than that, I actually really like fighting zombies - especially when you're armored
Just keep your distance, use long weapons, and zombies are trivial to fight off
Besides, try chopping zombies with a 2h axe - it is EXTREMELY fun, they are way easier to chop and there's heads just flying with every swing
So I personally like cleaning up the abyss from times

[pastel sphinx]

In that context, blunt weapons being stronger early is almost inevitable.
they are also stronger mid game and late game btw

[molten hedge]

I never realized you could pay off the abyss guy and was in for a surprise when I had to face 80 souls at once

[pastel sphinx]

you can also choose to fight just a few every night.

[bold cove]

It makes the game more difficult

[molten hedge]

Late game they’re not so bad since their bites do little against armor

And they fall over very easily

[distant minnow]

I'm sorry but this isn't responsive to anything I'm saying. My issue isn't that sharp weapons don't cut well enough at low ranks; It's that the abyss zombie mechanics make blunt damage better in the early-game in addition to blunt damage naturally being the best in the mid-late game due to enemy armor.

[harsh sedge]

I like the idea of sparing people and being rewarded for it, perhaps killing people gives you more money and sparing them absolves you of abyss

so it depends on your priorities

[vestal turtle]

You know you can free souls by paying up at the seer?

[harsh sedge]

do you want to buy that cool axe or not suffer the abyss

and then the seer costs more money to absolve

cause it's too little at the moment

[molten hedge]

Paying off my 80 souls would’ve been 800

So

[harsh sedge]

that's little

I have like 20k

[molten hedge]

But by that point I had that kind of money

[vestal turtle]

I find it a cool incentive to fence. If you want an easier time with a more lethal weapon you need to pay

[molten hedge]

I have 3000+

[harsh sedge]

if you're smart (and as people get better) you'll save up a ton of cash real quick

you can get in a match

[molten hedge]

I overall think the game is way more punishing early game than it is late game

[harsh sedge]

give up

then do retribution

for extra cash if necessary

and other cheese methods

you don't need any mercs to do 90% of fights

[vestal turtle]

Yes it is. After commoner it becomes easy especially if you rob armor

[molten hedge]

Very much so

[harsh sedge]

yeah I hate the balancing

too hard at the start and too easy after commoner

[molten hedge]

Getting through peasant was very difficult

Now it’s a cake walk

[harsh sedge]

and it's too grindy

they need to go back to the point system

[pastel sphinx]

early game is such a nightmare and then by the time you get essential armor you basically can't die.

[harsh sedge]

more rounds = more points

10 points to get to tourney

buff everyone's strength and abilities so they don't crumple at the slightest touch

or insta die to a headshot

[molten hedge]

I think there should be an option for a tourney against similarly leveled opponents or a higher level champion like the og gauntlet

[harsh sedge]

so fights feel more involved

nah

do a PvZ2

at 5 points you have to fight a boss

at 10 points a tourney

[molten hedge]

That could work too

[harsh sedge]

so you have mid progression

boss gives gear

[molten hedge]

Yeah that’s not a bad idea

[harsh sedge]

the boss has the best gear of your tier

so halfway through you get some cool stuff

if you don't like it you can sell it for cash

and make something better

so we have the demo bosses and the new tourney

which I really like

[pastel sphinx]

i miss bosses having unique configurations of armor and weapons. now they are all just randomly generated.

[molten hedge]

Yes good plan

[distant minnow]

Yea the abyss being too easy to pay off once you're out of the low ranks is another issue I have with the soul revenge mechanic, but that'd be better off in it's own thread

[hallow nexus]

If you don't want to end up in the abyss...don't kill your opponent.

The options are Git Gud at knocking them out. OR, Git Gud at the Abyss.

I honestly don't see the issue.

[harsh sedge]

The issue is simple. There is no "Git Gud" it is incredibly easy to beat enemies with blunt weapons and get headshots.

Both the progression mode and the abyss mode are too easy at the moment, mainly because of the new strength system.

They need to fix the difficulty

[distant minnow]

My issue is that it encourages weapon monotany a little too much. You don't need to Git Gud at knocking your opponents out if you just take a blunt weapon.
I understand that a lot of shit takes people have about this game are entirely due to skill issues but I promise this isn't one of them lol

[pastel sphinx]

trying not to kill enemies doesn't discourage weapon variety. it's more the fact that you start off insanely vulnerable and have to rely on weapon reach to not get hit.

and then you slowly transition into a blunt weapon or polearm to counter enemy armor.

there's like no chance to use blades without risking your life for no reason

[distant minnow]

It definitely does discourage weapon variety when you're hit with a zombie tax as your reward for getting good with weapons that are good at killing such as axes

[pastel sphinx]

idk i never even thought about that in my playthrough.

i started using bladed weapons just for fun once i beat the game and by then i didnt care how many people i killed

plus even in the demo i tried to spare people cause it's funner imo

[distant minnow]

I understand that the game will naturally lean towards blunt damage because of enemy armor and I'm okay with that, but I think cutting weapons should have their place in the earlygame without a zombie tax discouraging their use.

[pastel sphinx]

i think youre alone in the concept that the zombies are what discouraged bladed weapon use.

[distant minnow]

If that means buffing blunt weapons even further so that blows to unarmored heads kill more often then I'm okay with that :S

[inner mauve]

even though i think most of the physics complaints are because of the strength mechanic, I still think they've absolutely butchered swordplay. "weapon balance" doesn't explain the fact that my fairly muscular and high ranking willie can hardly fucking swing it without tangling his wrists together and flailing

no longsword I've used has felt any fun to use because they're basically impossible to get any sort of edge alignment on without micromanaging every swing and avoiding doing any follow up strikes

[pastel sphinx]

something is definitely weird with edge alignment. on some swords more than others.

[inner mauve]

because every time i try to follow up with a swing from the other direction, he twists his arm and locks up

even ovrdth agreed that the new sword physics are fucking egregious

[old perch]

I like how the current zombie system works. It can be frustrating early game but the solution is either dont die, deal with it, or git good at killing the undead.

[pastel sphinx]

its not so bad if you get a stock longsword that isnt that long.

[inner mauve]

even with the demo baron's sword i could still swing it without twisting my hands together

the weapon physics, particularly for the sword, need a lot of work

or at least the kinematics

because even lord willies are pretty incompetent when trying to swing a sword

[distant minnow]

I've also noticed this but I have faith in the devs
Also I know "weapon balance" isn't really accurate because the combat is entirely physics based but I can't think of a better term :S

[west spire]

demo combat/menus with new card types and random maps

[inner mauve]

my point is, unless the sword is extremely horrendously balanced, my willie should still be able to swing it without showing off his contortionist skills

[distant minnow]

gotcha

yea I agree and hope it's something we see improvements in over time

[distant minnow]

I think it's only one factor that discourages bladed weapon use, but you're right in that I'm the only one that thinks this. I definitely wasn't expecting everyone to disagree
Imo it'll be a problem worth talking about once the progression mode's gold economy is a bit more polished (zombie tax being an afterthought once you're out of Peasant rank, keeping all of your money after dying/retiring, etc.) but for now it's no big deal.
Maybe it'll matter once the devs inevitably add an achievement for beating the game starting from Beggar and without using money or insured items from previous characters

[pastel sphinx]

yeah there's not much to progression mode at the moment anyway. there is a brief early game moment where the zombie thing really matters and that's kind of it.

pretty much all the game balance critiques i have don't really matter until some more fundamental issues are dealt with first like performance and sandbox mode.

[calm heath]

I have the complete opposite experience with zombies. I take a plancon into abyss and smack the shit out of them 4+ times until they finally stop getting back up. Meanwhile, if I go in with my crafted sword, it slices through them like a knife through hot butter and one shots every single zombie.

[pastel sphinx]

he used ai to write that response i dont think he even knows what he said

[calm heath]

Lol fair

[primal plover]

y r u using ai bro 😭 think for yourself

[calm heath]

Not wrong but that's why I just grinded to the point that I could craft my own swords for free mode which I've really been enjoying. And I am one of the few who seems to actually like the new free mode lol. I also don't see much a problem with something being encouraged or discouraged since it's a single player game. You're not putting yourself at a disadvantage against other people by just playing the game how you want to since there is no competition. Just my two cents.

[pastel sphinx]

well basically, if the game was sandbox like the demo was, winning and losing wouldn't be a huge deal, but in progression mode now you lose money when you die and with money you can have more fun, so players are pressured to win.

and sometimes we do unfun things to win

if you dont have that problem, good. its just the progression mode is kind of set up to encourage winning

over having fun

[calm heath]

I get a lot of this wrist contortion with something like the barons beak or other long polearms but have zero of those problems with my crafted swords, aside from occasionally when drawing from the sheath, but that happened in the demo also.

[west spire]

the irony of the master of beheading using an LLM to skip out on the processing of information

[calm heath]

To me it was the same as the demo, because when I started playing the demo, I had to grind up to Baron in ultimate challenge to be able to play every tier in free mode. To me, EA just expanded on that idea. But someone recently told me that the demo updated soon after I started playing and removed that requirement, so I'm not sure how many people shared my experience there.

[distant minnow]

you laid out my argument better than i could haha

[pastel sphinx]

for me once i beat gauntlet mode i treated gauntlet mode as a sandbox mode in a way. same with progression mode now. im just having fun with it in my own way.

the first couple hours are just pretty rough

and it seems unfinished cause retiring a character just kills them. i gotta delete my save to start over

[calm heath]

Also, perfectly valid to find polearms boring/unfun, I just don't haha. I love doing the fancy overhead hand swaps and shit.

[calm heath]

It was yea, my first weapon pick was the 3 tined pitch fork and it was absolutely dog ass. I'd stab and it wouldn't even draw blood

[pastel sphinx]

yeah i didnt know a stabbing weapon could be that blunt

[inner mauve]

swinging swords just feels awful rn

[pastel sphinx]

i think the sheep shears are more lethal

[calm heath]

I have zero plans to retire, I'm sure a game update will force us all to start over eventually anyways lol

[calm heath]

Idk I honestly haven't played enough free mode yet to have too much of an opinion. I'm about done with grinding out my Baron set in progression

I just know my crafted swords work well from using them in progression lol. After making one absolutely terrible one first of course

My main complaint from the little free mode I played in EA was commoner tier, my favorite in the demo, had a lot of anything other than longsword enemies spawning. I couldn't get any longsword fights until I tried the tier after commoner

[pastel sphinx]

i miss longsword duels so much

[calm heath]

And I really like the fully unarmored longsword duels

[cursive mica]

just make them not bite

thats lame af

[inner mauve]

i just want the bites to be far weaker in several ways

the bites are cool and they encourage good distancing, but they shouldn't be an instant game ender if you just so happened to be in front of them while they're tumbling forward and decide to take you with them

[calm heath]

Pro tip

Surround yourself in wood boxes and let the zombies come to you lmao

[inner mauve]

good ol project zomboid "put a box tv at the base of the stairs" method

[calm heath]

True

[distant minnow]

Tbh bladed weapons easily tearing through zombies is something I didn't consider when I made this thread
That's actually a pretty cool niche for them and lessens my complaint about the balancing of blunt and cutting weapons

[echo light]

i agree the game discourages uses swords and makes blunt too op

sword used to be high risk high reward now its high risk low reward, while blunt is low risk high reward

its not worth using sharp weapons if they kill people

[calm heath]

Eh, once you get to max tier that becomes a non issue as you make more than enough money to pay them off nightly. But yea until knight/lord, true

[calm heath]

It actually feels so good lol. I love the dichotomy. Against other well armored, well brained opponents, I take the safe route of polearms, and when I get sucked into the abyss I go full doom guy with a sword

[minor hinge]

The souls mechanic is awesome

[echo light]

agree to disagree

my favorite tier was commoner in the demo bc i liked unarmored sword fights and now the games mechanics tell me not to do that

[hallow nexus]

I too am a commoner enjoyer.

Now I go to Free Mode, and set it to Militia. Closest thing we got. The EA Commoner Weapons for the AI are boring.

[austere socket]

i think you forgot the meaning of "enhancing/enhanced"

[austere socket]

ohhh

[austere socket]

"he"???
do you know what "enhanced" means..

[pastel sphinx]

i do, because i dont have to offload my thinking to chat gpt

[fading prawn]

brother who made this

zombies are extremely easy to kill

😭

[inner mauve]

ai is unethical and inefficient. just be aware of its (frankly potent) downsides before you start using it so much

[primal plover]

still

[ruby hatch]

Just pay the dude or simply dont die

[manic ore]

There’s an option to just give up. Do that if you don’t like the vengeful souls

[brave trench]

Isn't abyss supposed to be hard and challenging to make return to living a "miracle"? I love this solution, it gives sparing a life meaning. You can insure your gear so things are already easy, don't see a point with making returns from abyss trivial.

[fading prawn]

Except it's not challenging

These zombies barely try

😔