references♥_1450-1470

[runic wigeon]

ah

thx

[cloud siren]

ive been living in a dungeon for 14 decades

[autumn narwhal]

Yea

[terse bronze]

his son probably did

[autumn narwhal]

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

NO WAY!

[runic wigeon]

uh

[cloud siren]

😔🕊️

[autumn narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/seal-concerned-look-around-sad-confused-gif-13135059842887918234

I think there is a lot of sallets in the game but not many other stuff

[runic wigeon]

Sorry to those who love sallets but i hate those with every fiber of my being

[lament wolf]

Sallets are cool in moderation

a bit overdone nowadays though

[terse bronze]

it's fine to be wrong

1444, France, Bibliothèque de Rennes Métropole, Ms. 0034

a bit too early for the game but it's cool

[autumn narwhal]

I like the sallets but... isnt that too much?

[runic wigeon]

in my opinion they just look fugly

[cloud siren]

some sallets i dont like but not everysingle one

[autumn narwhal]

Idk fine to me

[runic wigeon]

yea thats my main reason for hating them

their overused

[autumn narwhal]

Agreed

[terse bronze]

they're awesome

[runic wigeon]

also agreed

[terse bronze]

protective, modular, fashionable..

[cloud siren]

like this one , this is shit in my eyes but gold for others

[runic wigeon]

i mean i cant really be that mad at them, they were meant to be more practical less fashionable

to be fair

[autumn narwhal]

The visor is too big

[terse bronze]

this is just a badly made larp sallet

the ones who like it are idiots

[terse bronze]

"less fashionable" when talking about sallets is wild

[cloud siren]

yeah honestly any sallets that don’t have a bevor is shit for me

[autumn narwhal]

Hmmmmm

[autumn narwhal]

Not all but most of

[runic wigeon]

it is my opinion after all

so ill shut up about my thoughts on them

[lament wolf]

i think "idiot" is a bit harsh

[terse bronze]

It's not harsh enough

trust me

[cloud siren]

what about barbute ?

[silver heart]

holy that’s asking for a bolt.

[terse bronze]

🤤

[terse bronze]

barbute = sallets essentially so yeah

they're cool

[runic wigeon]

barbutes look great with common soldiers of the era

[cloud siren]

it looks weird to me tbh

[autumn narwhal]

I think devs should make more armet kind of stuff

[cloud siren]

the visorless

[runic wigeon]

i do kind of like how they look like appolo corinthian helmets

[terse bronze]

btw barbute in period could (and often did) refer to bevors and bascinet's aventails

[autumn narwhal]

Damn beautiful

[cloud siren]

with visor is less awful

[terse bronze]

Appulo-corinthian helmets are BASED

[runic wigeon]

https://klipy.com/gifs/morgon-freeman-true-bugburger2--k01KQ60JFGD9MKG210N7S48ZPJB

[cloud siren]

so what is the worst helmet so far that everyone can agree on ?

[runic wigeon]

frog helm

[terse bronze]

1448 painting by Lo Scheggia

[terse bronze]

some early 16thc sallets

[lament wolf]

how is it not harsh enough

[cloud siren]

got any references ?

[slate mulch]

ew..

[runic wigeon]

oh good god

[cloud siren]

jesus

[lament wolf]

skullcap with no padding

[autumn narwhal]

OH MY GOD....

[runic wigeon]

also on that note whats some of yalls least favorite complete suites of armor

[terse bronze]

detail from 1480-1490 painting by Vicino da Ferrara

[autumn narwhal]

Millanise..

Sorry

...

[coral path]

brother?

[runic wigeon]

the armet ruins it

[autumn narwhal]

IM SORRY

[terse bronze]

you're getting blown up

[terse bronze]

me in the middle

[runic wigeon]

Are you being held at gunpoint?

[cloud siren]

thats you ?

[autumn narwhal]

Oh this looks good

[coral path]

yes

[silver heart]

whole heap of gorgeous sallets in this depiction of charles the bold, especially charles’s own.

[cloud siren]

sweet

[coral path]

scamms

[cloud siren]

yeah i saw that 😭😭

[terse bronze]

i'm cheating

[autumn narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/umm-no-awkward-gif-14598974

[terse bronze]

pretty sure that's caesar

[runic wigeon]

that bascinet looks fuck ugly

[silver heart]

i enjoy the looks of armets with plate wrappers much more than i do those without.

[autumn narwhal]

bro...

[cloud siren]

a man never speaks ill about bascinets

[terse bronze]

the more you look, the worse it gets

[runic wigeon]

i like brass helmets like that

[autumn narwhal]

My most loved style of armor its Maximillian

[terse bronze]

:3

[coral path]

its so peak

[runic wigeon]

reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uciT-hp5tA

[coral path]

uh oh

[silver heart]

you’re right. i got confused due to toby capwell’s inclusion of the image in a seminar speaking on burgundian gilded armor.

[runic wigeon]

?

[runic wigeon]

beatiful

[terse bronze]

gilded armor, not necessarily burgundian but yes

[cloud siren]

this is gorgeous ngl

love the roman cav masks

[runic wigeon]

fire

[terse bronze]

not really a fan of this video, there's a lot of corners cut and it's advertized as "burgundian archer" but in the video he's saying that it's actually an english merc so it kinda sucks

[coral path]

ayo watch this

[runic wigeon]

yea

[silver heart]

where is the painting attributed to? i had thought it was burgundian.

[cloud siren]

the top looks like a dr seuss book 🕊️

[runic wigeon]

LOL

[terse bronze]

it's flemish, low countries and burgundy yeah but I mean the gold armor isn't strictly burgundian

[runic wigeon]

accurate

[autumn narwhal]

Ok bye guys

I need to go

[cloud siren]

gudbye

[runic wigeon]

see ya

[silver heart]

i’m aware. he was just speaking on it in the context of the records of charles the bold commissioning his goldsmith to fully gild his harness and utilized that image while doing so. i got confused.

[autumn narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/navy-blue-seal-navy-seal-seal-wave-seal-the-deal-gif-8949691767833460509

[terse bronze]

:^3

[runic wigeon]

always love some good eastern armor

[cloud siren]

sutton hoo helmet goes mad hard

[silver heart]

24cc gold and real gemstones🤭

[coral path]

Estonia...

[lucid briar]

PLATE VOIDERS RAAAAGH

[short berry]

L game never updated

[coral path]

[thorny otter]

This suit also has the neck/spine protector coming down from the sallet in the back

And a small reinforce in the form of targe on left gauntlet

[rigid gull]

Buckenet

(Def real)

[safe cobalt]

Holy

[tight umbra]

the type of helmet larp stores sell for 60 bucks

[quaint shore]

Right next to “houndskull” and “bascinet” cause they think they are different helmets

With no aventail either of course

[tight umbra]

“Viking helmet”

Will we get this helmet in half sword

[pseudo vessel]

No...

[quaint shore]

The spirit of fat tony

[tight umbra]

I find the wings on a great helm so ugly

I sorta like great helms they dont look bad unless used wrongly like with these ugly ass wings

[light nova]

There are SO many better mounting options than fucking winged horns it looks so bad

[quaint shore]

those drape things

🤤

[coral path]

My favorite

[bright token]

excellent italianate armour

[slate mulch]

and that shitty "brass" edge detailing

[quaint shore]

Yeah

[autumn narwhal]

Guys i think why no bascinet

But Kettle helm yes

Why?

12-13 century Kettle and 13-15 bascinet

Also the grandson can wearing grandpa's helm if the size was right

Answer me gooba-brothers

[robust tendon]

this wasn’t done, people would just buy appropriate contemporary equipment rather than using outdated armor

[robust tendon]

All the kettles in the game are 15th century

[autumn narwhal]

What if they don't have enough money?

[autumn narwhal]

Understood

[robust tendon]

bassinets fall out of use roughly by 1430~

[robust tendon]

then they don’t fight

[autumn narwhal]

Hmmm emmmm

[robust tendon]

afaik it was expected you’d be able to arm yourself appropriately if you were to fight in an army

[autumn narwhal]

I know but if you have your father's bascinet which fit's you

Why not?

[robust tendon]

because you can afford contemporary stuff

[autumn narwhal]

Okay i don't wanna conflicting with anyone here

So maybe i should shut up

Maybe...

[sterile crane]

Wouldnt grandfather bascinet become scrap

[tight umbra]

grandson dosent wear grandpa helm, cause helm is old outdated and bad, grandson instead buys new helmet and uses that one

[autumn narwhal]

We finding a new helmets today and they (sometimes) looks good what do you think they gonna look 120 years after they was made?

[autumn narwhal]

I think if the grandson is brigand or something he better wear grandpa's helm then buy new one which is cost a lot of money

Idk maybe my thoughts isn't right

[muted ivy]

My mid-1470s Burgundian harness.

[tight umbra]

i love textile on a cuirass or etc

[muted ivy]

Yeah, it’s a covered cuirass. The guy next to me has a plackart over a brig.

[restive geyser]

Debated to be sooner too i believe

I mean

Unfortunately

No matter how much we debate

The bascinet is not off the table

And it genuinely has a chance to be added, as some super rare shitty helmet that is rusty as fuck.

[autumn narwhal]

Hey

Maybe not rusty but old

And not shitty

I mean

Fck who knows?

But hope never dies

[vocal vale]

or he could just sell grandpa’s helmet and buy a more contemporary one

[autumn narwhal]

Maybe

[vocal vale]

we don’t really have any sources of distinctly old helmets being used afaik outside of being retrofitted

[restive geyser]

Hey buster

I existed during that century

I can confirm there was bascinets

[coral path]

wtf is up with the pfp yo...

[restive geyser]

Austro-hungaria

Is something wrong about it?

[coral path]

nah im just messing around

kinda

I dont wanna get political

[restive geyser]

It's the once country that my fam fought for in ww1

[In isonzo, not Serbia]

[coral path]

'

[restive geyser]

Fun fact

I had a flag of Austro-hungaria, and I lost it at one of my older homes when i was around 12.

Someone, in Florida, bought a home, and saw a Austro-hungarian flag, in the house.

This is real, so Florida!

[muted ivy]

Excellent hose.

[tight umbra]

shit we're enemies

[restive geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/slovakia-gif-9466492006236051147

[void stream]

Very useful reference

[hushed canopy]

willy is having fun

[rigid gull]

Guilded and blackened armour when?

[slim bear]

There’s a mod that makes all armour dark

[bright token]

Does the covered cuirass has its own fauld too? I wanna learn more how your armour work 😄

[rigid gull]

Am kinda dunce like so i dunno how to mod

Stuff

[tight umbra]

Cant wait till we can make armor

[rigid gull]

I pray for the future of Half Sword

[thorny otter]

Some reenactment tidbits from over the years

[rigid gull]

I badly want armour but i dunno where to get

[shut bison]

I have a spare

[tight umbra]

If you’re from europe check out celtic web merchant, idk if they’re really good but the prices arent half bad

[tight umbra]

Yo what region been planning to get armor

[tight umbra]

But then again its best to get from a real blacksmith

[robust tendon]

depends on what you want

if u want authentic stuff you’re best off commissioning a smith yourself

[rigid gull]

P l a t e

Early 1400s

Full suit

[terse bronze]

do you actually know what you want

like did you research what you want or you just saw 2 pictures of early 15thc reenactors and decided you wanted that

[rigid gull]

I do have an idea

Of what i want

[thorny otter]

I second this. It really helps being as precise as possible when planning armor. Location of you armorers, of the intended armor, timeframe (if applicable), sizing, what do you want to do in the armor, budget etc etc.

[rigid gull]

Exactly

But where do i find an armourer

[terse bronze]

at the armourer shop

[shadow forum]

Yeah the armourer shop in armourville

[robust tendon]

I know piotr feret has made some really good early 15th century stuff but if i remember he has a really long wait list

[rigid gull]

I'm fine with that

[robust tendon]

by long wait list i mean like a year or more but im not sure

[rigid gull]

I was expecting that

[thorny otter]

Thats's the usual i would say

Have a look at now again aged list for a quick intel who is(was) out there

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FuMRLFfxAgKKcn6CnMYSgsFlw5_Eu4rP9bUfIpKCp1A/edit?usp=drivesdk

[bleak ore]

I bought an Eisenhut from them, but I live in the US so I had to pay tarrifs

[coral path]

stud

[vocal vale]

dagging final boss

[magic sand]

Manuscript depicting a scene from the battle of Crecy. Note the warrior fighting in the traditional germano-celtic style (naked).

[tight umbra]

im pretty sure they're mainly european

[muted ivy]

Yeah. It’s a covered breast and plackart with faulds and tassets similar to other cuirasses. It also has a brigandined skirt at the bottom.

[bright token]

Awesome armour

[bright token]

Is brigandine skirt part of the covered breastplate or is it a separate piece?

[restive geyser]

Genuine question for da people

Why did they name two things "Rondel"

Is there a explanation or is it just because they wanted to?

And finally

At what point does rondel armor attachment stop becoming a rondel?

[rigid gull]

R o u n d

[robust tendon]

I assume u are referring to rondel daggers and rondels as armor?

in which case its just bc the handguard for the rondel dagger is made up of ‘rondels’

also idk if its a period term to refer to it as a rondel and those daggers as rondel daggers

[terse bronze]

rondel
rond = round

rondel dagger because it's a dagger with round disks

[tight umbra]

Makes sense

[restive geyser]

Makes sense

Now: at what point does an rondel armor piece stop being a rondel armor piece

[robust tendon]

when its not a round disk

[restive geyser]

... what if you made it a square?

Would it be a erm

block

"What armor do you have?"

"Oh these? They're blocks."

[robust tendon]

I guess so

[restive geyser]

Why didn't rondels become more mainstream in europe compared to similar circular armor elsewhere around the world?

[terse bronze]

what?

[restive geyser]

Like

Why didn't more soldiers have them

In europe

[terse bronze]

they're everywhere dude

on helmets, besagews, as poleyns fans, couters fans, ect

[restive geyser]

I don't see them too much in manuscripts, maybe I am missing them when they are in the background

[terse bronze]

you are missing them a lot then yeah

cuz they're everywhere

[restive geyser]

Ik rondels are like a "early" example of Mirror plate in Europe

[terse bronze]

random

[restive geyser]

[Tbh, I have a feeling Mirror plate would've still been called Rondels by europeans.]

[restive geyser]

The sallet and rondel combo is common from what I've seen, same with the armet

The Poleyn Rondel is smthing I've never seen

As a replacement for a fan

[coral path]

🥹

[coral path]

you cant miss them

[coral path]

youd be surprised

[thorny otter]

Like the Schilling chronicles have quite abundance of rondels on couters and poleyns, also used as spaulders...

[sterile crane]

The game's sallet!! Also more rondels

How common is it for people to not be wearing shoes?

[terse bronze]

A lot

[vivid solar]

A lot common?

[terse bronze]

A common lot!

[vivid solar]

[tight umbra]

i draw all my medieval characters wearing shoes cause idk how to draw those socks

[earnest mango]

wouldnt their hose get super dirty

like walking with your socks through dirt

[quaint shore]

i cant imagine thats very comfortable either when it does get dirty

[terse bronze]

Washing existed back then

You guys do wash your shoes, socks ect no?

Same thing back then

[earnest mango]

just the idea of walking with just your socks on dirt feels wrong

[bleak ore]

You can also see in game that a lot of hosen were bottomed with leather

[terse bronze]

I believe there's mentions of thin soles sewn in chausses but I couldn't really name the sources off the top of my head

[sterile crane]

i like using no shoe cus hose feet shape is nice looking, and color of course compared to shoes

[bleak ore]

I have to wear shoes with mine but it's because I have the stirrup style

[terse bronze]

But I don't think it would THAT uncomfortable for them since they were more used to it and more accustomed to the practice, human feet shape changed a lot during the past centuries because of what kind of shoes we have and how we walk now is different from back then ect

Iicr it was theorized that during those ages of hosen uses, they would march on the ball of the foot first or something like that

Also reminder that modern shoes shape hurt your feet!!! A lot!!!

[sterile crane]

they do seem to have the back portion of the feet raised alot in these artworks

[terse bronze]

Might be cultural too idk cuz in many places people don't care about walking barefoot, look at Australia people often walk barefoot in the streets and shit

Even here in southern France (and northern Spain) there's a pretty common type of footwear, like a sandal, with a very thin rope sole

[sterile crane]

but how spread was the.. non use of shoes?

and just hose

[terse bronze]

The thing is we can't really how prevalent the use of soles sewn on hosen was from images alone

Since you can't see the sole

But you do see, a LOT of people only wearing hosens with no apparent shoes

[earnest mango]

that makes sense. I imagine it'd suck a lot to step in to a puddle

[sterile crane]

i think also they wouldnt be walking on surfaces that warrant alot of protection to the sole of the feet?

[earnest mango]

like I can see walking barefoot but walking with just cloth around your foot sounds just unpleasent, like dirtying your underwear

[terse bronze]

Well off people used high heeled sandals for that lol

Like in the streets ect

[sterile crane]

damnnn

[earnest mango]

I did hear of that

[sterile crane]

elevating from the filth

[earnest mango]

those wooden block sandals

[terse bronze]

Look up the arnolfini couple, painted by Van Eyck

And firstly, enjoy the masterpiece

And secondly, look at the bottom left

[sterile crane]

dog

[terse bronze]

I said left not middle grrrr

[sterile crane]

yes yes pointy wood sandals

[terse bronze]

Yippie!

[sterile crane]

also damn it looks so good fo the date

[terse bronze]

Bro the Flemish renaissance is goated

Bermejo's Saint Michael my beloved

[sterile crane]

the guys hat reminds me of something

[terse bronze]

jamiroquai prolly

[sterile crane]

theres red sandals in the back there

yeah

this Jan Van Eyck guy might be pretty good

he painted kastenbrusts yoo

[earnest mango]

lol real

[bleak ore]

Rate my kit

Also crossbow

[quaint shore]

Oh right

I thought i hallucinated that ngl

[thin wedge]

fire bro

[tropic crystal]

He really be putting that shit on

[coral path]

fly af dude

[silver heart]

jolly fellow.

[muted ivy]

It’s attached to the fauld.

[agile kindle]

you look as joyous as anyone with a fit like that should be

[restive geyser]

Most happiest looking dood ever

https://tenor.com/view/waffascraffa-hamster-meme-happy-hamster-joyous-chiikawa-happy-gif-16374986407687065427

[bleak ore]

It is probably my favorite outfit I own

[quaint shore]

i do that.. gulp

[tight umbra]

i would be too

[bright token]

Was gold decor for pollaxe common? Pic from reddit

[dim mauve]

Do we have any sources of hose like this before 1490?

1. Waist height rather than hip height.

2. Can't really see it in image but hose are tied In the middle independently of codpiece.

3. Very late seam pattern on buttocks.

As far as I know these would be very accurate for 1510 or maybe 1490 but not at all for 1470.

[thorny otter]

Correct

[coral path]

well god damn

[coral path]

swag

[tight umbra]

i know this is out of period but is htere any depiction of 'visored great helms'

im trying to get a crusader fit about late 13th century and i wanna know since the website im looking at has 'visored great helms'

[slate mulch]

elementary school 2nd class water color painting quality

[sterile crane]

Guys where to get written sources for arms and armor?

[robust tendon]

here are some, all of these being dated to the early 14th century

i dont think visored greathelms were a thing in the 13th century, least i havent seen any depictions

[tight umbra]

what kind of armor did they wear other than that helmet and a hauberk

its kind of hard to see here

[sterile crane]

german 1475

seems pretty cool to put on game

[tight umbra]

Definitely looks cool

My favorite thing that should be added is armet wrappers tbh

[sterile crane]

yess, the baron's armet already has one so it seemed odd the normal armet doesnt have that option

[tight umbra]

Barons has a wrapper?

[vocal vale]

real life one doesnt have a wrapper

i assume that's mostly why

[sterile crane]

ohhhh

ok yeah makes sense

[tight umbra]

I never realized that he has a wrapper

[tight umbra]

Im pretty sure its a coat of plates (brigandine) right?

[robust tendon]

pairs of plates are not brigandine

but yeah pairs of plates, greaves, sometimes elbow cops, rondels on the shoulder, are some additional armors they could wear with maille in that period

[next orchid]

waist height
ngmi

its like 1480s hose height

[dim mauve]

Got a source for hose like that before 1490?

[next orchid]

1473

[dim mauve]

Interesting

Pretty men as always it seems

[next orchid]

mea culpa

[slim bear]

At some point in time france had men wear pretty dresses

[terse bronze]

(these are italian art btw)

[slim bear]

Medieval europe was super gay as it seems

Wasnt homosexual intercourse seen as brotherly bonding at some point in time

[terse bronze]

no?

Pretty weird comments lmfao

[terse bronze]

Were you refering to anquity ?

[slim bear]

Idk i have noob knowledge in medieval european history

[next orchid]

no u dont understand medieval catholic europe was the basin of homosexuality

[next orchid]

in late medieval italy they would cut off ur nose when they randomly decided to enforce their sodomy laws

[terse bronze]

very progressive

medieval italy woke

[next orchid]

so true

[terse bronze]

let's get Louis IX on the mic and ask him his opinion on gay jews

[slate mulch]

ex voto dev right here

[tight umbra]

I just opened discord

[tight umbra]

oh my bad

the seller im looking at dosent have any 'coat of plates', this is the earliest it gets

visby brigandine

and its expensive

[terse bronze]

holy larp

[robust tendon]

If you are trying to be accurate i really would not look at this seller

[tight umbra]

well im just gonna make my own with plastic plates

might suck but its gonna work

[sly siren]

nice oxford shoes lmao

[coral path]

Mea culpa, Ah Ça Ira

[coral path]

fr lmao

[bright token]

hi guys im drawing a French knight wearing covered cuirass. I would love to ask you is there cuirass with riveted plackart that opens on the side like most Italianate armour do?

[vivid solar]

Oh god wtf

[haughty creek]

What is that aventail even protecting

Because it sure isn’t his neck

[tight umbra]

the more i look at it the worse it gets

[sterile crane]

Has the benefit of being able to size it and its fit whoever you find best

[tight umbra]

true

[coral path]

Alabaster statue of Pedro I. Museo Arqueológico Nacional, Madrid (1334-1369) Ca.1446

[coral path]

so uh.. can I get that jack...

[rigid gull]

When you put a cardboard box around your waist and add some leather on top of it

[sterile crane]

Hey guys is there a name for when the back lames of a cuirass' skirt is like pointed in a V shape?

It appears on like two cuirasses in the game

[bleak ore]

I think this would be a more historical option https://armours.pro/brigantine-armor-wimbledon

[tight umbra]

Do they ship to europe cant check

[vocal vale]

culet

[vocal vale]

it’s made in europe

[sterile crane]

but in that shape specifically

[vocal vale]

culet

[sterile crane]

damn

how do i diferentiate it from others then

[vocal vale]

pointy culet

[tight umbra]

Oh cool

[vivid solar]

Guys what do we think about KCD2 for playing medieval dress up

[ancient pivot]

cool equipment system but a lot of the models are inaccurate, mainly in the silhouette. There's a mod that improves them a bit and there's a better one in the works that looks really good

it's miles better than the first game though

[vivid solar]

Fair

I'm playing the first game rn and yeah the armour really doesn't do anything for me, especially that abysmal hounskull

[vivid solar]

What 2 mods are you talking about?

[coral path]

Me personally, this would be good cheap, but not for reenactment or historical larp

[bleak ore]

I agree

[coral path]

if I ever get a kit, odds are i'm gonna commission

[bleak ore]

I might have to commission a breastplate because there isn't anything in stock on any sites with my size

[coral path]

Ca. 1456 - 'Jean Jouvenel (Juvénal) des Ursins (+1431) and Michelle de Vitry (+1456)', Cathédrale Notre-Dame, Paris, France.

[restive geyser]

That's

.....

The coolest tabbard heraldry I've ever seen...

I am deadass recreating that in the heraldry maker wtf

[terse smelt]

holy fuck

[crude fractal]

ควย

[lone osprey]

🗣️ fringes 🗣️ on 🗣️ swords

[vocal vale]

love this guy but hate that helmet

[slim bear]

You must hate wolf cage helmets

They arent even medieval but theyre the ugliest buhurt helmet

[unkempt rampart]

Majority of Buhurt kit sucks

[slim bear]

There's a kit i saw on ebay that had an ancient greek helmet

I am 100% sure it isnt a great barbute

[restive geyser]

Dude being man handled

Is that sallet he wearing a "Burgundy" sallet?

[terse bronze]

What do you mean by burgundy sallet

[restive geyser]

Isn't a "burgundy" sallet a helmet with like, a big curve

[terse bronze]

..no?

Burgundy is a region

I don't understand

[restive geyser]

Talking about sallets made in Burgundy!!!

Don't they have a curve to them, i swear I remember it being mentioned before 💔

[terse bronze]

They have a curve... Like every sallet idk?

It's not something specifically burgundian

[ancient pivot]

"Reshaped Cuirasses and Waffenrocks" by Happy Bean on Nexus is the one that's out, just improves the shapes of torsos to be rounder. The other one is a mod that's being made by someone on the KCD2 modding discord, I can't remember their name. But they're essentially overhauling all armour pieces in the game to be better shaped and fitted to the body

[rigid gull]

Cool

I like kcd2

Its a cool game

So seeing it be made more accurate is nice

[vivid solar]

Sweet. Can i get a link to the modding discord?

[ancient pivot]

I'll DM you

[slate mulch]

i think its based off of a german tournament one but idk

[coral path]

What?

[restive geyser]

I was starting to feel insane

I just looked it up

IT IS A THING

But it's the wrong century

Another word for it is a Burgonet

And it's 16th century helmet not 15th

[coral path]

burgonet is literally just a name for a helmet tied to a place it's associated with, just like savoyard is

[restive geyser]

The burgonet here applies to the name of the given helmet, which was also named a Burgundy sallet

The burgundy sallet isn't a completely common name because the general formation differed

It could look like a skull cap

It's a early modern combat helmet

[coral path]

Yes

I was just showing why its common for people to say "burgonet"

[restive geyser]

I think the big question is

Would this even be considered a sallet

[coral path]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1460847343816409323/1497285921156894791/togif.gif

thanks kevlar

[restive geyser]

@terse bronze @robust tendon idk if you guys saw this yet.

16th century read on combat advantages, and horseback

i love how this basically confirms that they had a bigger idea of weapon names other than just

"Spear"

"Sharp stick"

[vocal vale]

it’s poorly shaped

i know what it’s based on

[coral path]

I just dont like his kit.

just doesnt sit right with me as a historical ref

[slate mulch]

a ok

[tight umbra]

bro i thought thats a shirt 😭

[sterile crane]

ohhh theres decorations on one side

[coral path]

another banger

[white fulcrum]

i believe what @restive geyser means when they say burgundian sallet is a sallet with a curved facial opening

instead of one with sharper edges

but regardless, no, that shape isnt stylistically burgundian

[coral path]

https://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/index-of-brasses/edmund-clere-and-his-wife

[slim bear]

WE only call them “knight helmets” here 😡

Whoever doesnt call them knight helmets is fed to the river worm

[slate mulch]

dunno if these have been posted before but eh

[ebon ridge]

Great helm

[bleak ore]

I love shingle/tegulated style helmets

[restive geyser]

It's the for honor helmet, made just for, for honor

[terse bronze]

?

[coral path]

[restive geyser]

knows history, yet dares not know the TRUE history that is For honor!

[coral path]

this dudes kit is peak

[restive geyser]

peak

wrong msg

[restive geyser]

peak

[coral path]

[slate mulch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/964267145678716991/1168852126584287232/togif.gif?ex=69f86e5f&is=69f71cdf&hm=95461efda0b944e9364a03bac30ab7960552d6ac352727c75908a7d98e41bc62&

[restive geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/wait-a-minute-wait-a-second-wait-whoa-there-what-did-i-just-see-gif-13900813

shit is small

[coral path]

my turn to repost https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055560006407303188/1333291872105533572/8mb.video-I36-6dk9qlpD.mp4?ex=69f8c891&is=69f77711&hm=2f136fbf564e30b19e617f3101e194a06a76c20a4842c18a7d42a236cbd060e0&

[coral path]

this dudes insta is great

[restive geyser]

brigandine makes me feel a way

[slate mulch]

https://giphy.com/gifs/sunnyfxx-sunny-always-fxx-87jGhdRVzUOJNh2s0q

[restive geyser]

Brigandines are supposedly being added

i hope we can customize the color

[slate mulch]

i wanna see whats in that scabbard

[restive geyser]

This shit is so clean

[coral path]

reminds me of iberian brigs

[silver heart]

falchion.

[slate mulch]

i wonder how fuckin hot it is in a leather brig

i mean yea but like

lemme see the bladeeeeeeee

i wanna see

hilt is pretty i wanna see the rest

[restive geyser]

prob a falchion blade

[slate mulch]

no more mr nice guy

fuck you

i will from now on only post dogshit victorian slop

[restive geyser]

[slate mulch]

i fw this hat a lot

black would be better tho

[coral path]

theres like 8000 of these in jean froissarts stuffs

[slate mulch]

hella

[restive geyser]

check out this totally in century uniform from Bavaria, Gendarme Mounted uniform

[slate mulch]

i hate bavarians

dont post them

[restive geyser]

[coral path]

iirc this was Loyset Liédet's illuminations

[slate mulch]

no im not racist they just won the last 20 skirmishes

fuckin bs

[restive geyser]

wanna know why

[slate mulch]

cuz you dont fw rural people/highlanders

[restive geyser]

BECAUSE BAVARIA TAKES NAMES AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT DEFEAT MEANS! HURRAH!

[slate mulch]

p sure ive heard that name before

[restive geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/bavaria-gif-6868078955980081769

[coral path]

yeh hes populare

[restive geyser]

popular

[coral path]

shh

[slate mulch]

makes sense

[restive geyser]

populate

Bavaria smaller than Scaleback iq and yet rarely loses, so badass

[slate mulch]

anywho out of period but gah damn

[restive geyser]

what is that tonlet

[slate mulch]

the what

[coral path]

low fantasy stuff is good when done correct

[restive geyser]

foulds of plate

if we all use that word more

[slate mulch]

the skirt ?

[restive geyser]

it'll piss off Crecy

[slate mulch]

dunno

[restive geyser]

yes.

[slate mulch]

i think italians did scale stuff

[restive geyser]

they were into Maille

[slate mulch]

thought the evil skull visor was real

[coral path]

I disagree

[restive geyser]

Germany had more of a thing for pointy shi

[slate mulch]

i think i saw it on a gisant but idk

[restive geyser]

what are you disgreeing with?!

[slate mulch]

easy to fake stuff nowadays

[coral path]

the interpretation

[restive geyser]

oh

[restive geyser]

Cavalry mask were a thing

BUUUT

it was a Roman thing

(:

[slate mulch]

yes visored bascinets dont exist

[restive geyser]

and whether or not

Romans actually wore these face mask

is often argued

We do know it was worn in sports

[slate mulch]

well yea you dont want a gladiator to die cuz theyre expensiv

also ha

nerd

[restive geyser]

send pictures of a completely out of century + date armory

[coral path]

what?

[restive geyser]

send something out of date

[restive geyser]

did he make that gambeson dirty

or was it by accident

[coral path]

idk

[slate mulch]

he got that half sword tavern npc pose

[restive geyser]

i do like his helmet doe

[fast pagoda]

Prolly went wildland firefighting with it before the meetup

Common soldiery occurrence

[slate mulch]

pro tip dont store your gear in a chimney

[vocal vale]

rhine renold

[bleak ore]

I agree my favorites come from Mull Mud and Blood

[iron ginkgo]

quite unproper

probably a very poor company supplying him

[coral path]

Granary ca.1454

[light nova]

Been using this as a reaction image lolol

[latent drift]

i love the sallet on the left

[coral path]

I like sallets

[slate mulch]

i like kettles because mmm soup

[coral path]

Horatius Cocles Defending the Sublician Bridge (cassone panel)
by Francesco Pesellino, Florence, Italy, ca. 1450

[hollow skiff]

Real

[vocal vale]

archer ladies ?

[magic sand]

Those are men

[granite blade]

Any good references for late 1400s Austria?

[lone osprey]

https://realonline.imareal.sbg.ac.at/

[granite blade]

Oof, not very optimized for mobile, I'll do some digging though, thank you!

[lone osprey]

Wrong link lol
Try now, you can hit search first then enter dates, works good on my phone

Just need to hit zoom ansicht to get rid of the annotations (tbh wish they put the annotated view afterwards)

[granite blade]

Much better 😂
Thank you!

[rigid gull]

Fluted armour or gold, brass and etching and stuff

[tight umbra]

isnt this 16th century stuff?

half sword takes place in 1475 this is like

1520's

[rigid gull]

I believe i saw Joan of Arc wear smth like that

Well a painting of one

How accurate it is i cannot confirm

Still tho

Gold trimming

And stuff

I want

[tight umbra]

its maximillian armor

out of period

[lone osprey]

the curse of fat tony is upon us

[terse bronze]

this is not a period painting

[quaint shore]

Dreadful O’ Tony

[terse bronze]

In fact that Jeanne d'Arc painting was made in 1901

they didn't know better so they used early 16thc armor

Similarly, from 1865

[rigid gull]

But still somethin like this tho?

[terse bronze]

No

[rigid gull]

Bweh

[terse bronze]

in fact that one is slightly too late for the game

Also Jeanne d'Arc died in 1431

[rigid gull]

Icknow

[terse bronze]

the game tales place in 1475, but allows arms and armors from as early as 1450

so still 20 years after Jeanne died

[rigid gull]

So gold in armour was just not a thing then

[terse bronze]

it was

[rigid gull]

I want

[terse bronze]

the baron is fully golden

[rigid gull]

Full gold is mid

I want like

How do i explain

Piping

I guess

[terse bronze]

1470 Flemish tapestry at the Saumur castle

[rigid gull]

Yes something like that

[tight umbra]

gilded armor?

[rigid gull]

Not filly gilded but yes

[candid rapids]

gilding, etching

[rigid gull]

I said those

[sterile crane]

Do you think there will be those sallets with articulated tails in the game?

[terse bronze]

depends on what you consider articulated

[sterile crane]

The ones with long segmented tails

[terse bronze]

most likely not

[sterile crane]

This one i think is possible

[royal wave]

I was just thinking about this earlier today when I realized when she actually lived

was she ever depicted during that period??

[terse bronze]

not really

[cloud siren]

sallet with a sparrow beak visor . Cool as fuck , sadly this is from the mid late 15th century 😔🕊️

[coral path]

hes back 🥹

[robust tendon]

better version of basically the same thing

[terse bronze]

Mid-late 15thc do fit the game timeframe HOWEVER these are from like 1480 onward to out of the 1450-1475 frame..

[coral path]

even early 16th iirc

[robust tendon]

ye

[coral path]

pom crests should be a thing in this game lmao

pomegranate

[slate mulch]

armet sallet...

[robust tendon]

nah

just sallet

[silver heart]

philip the handsome had that shit on.

[terse bronze]

There's nothing armet-like

[slate mulch]

the visor

[terse bronze]

Visors doesn't matter

[slate mulch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/964267145678716991/1168852126584287232/togif.gif

[silver heart]

holy low quality.

[ancient frost]

Everything from vlad the impaler and the raven king should be in this game, its within the timeline. I mean we already have blackened armours, that was literally the raven kings go-to armour

[vocal vale]

who the raven king

[vocal vale]

this is the closest to her life i’ve seen her depicted

[ancient frost]

Matthias Corvinus, the man that imprisoned and killed Vlad the Impaler. He also fought alongside him, vs the Ottomans.

[vocal vale]

what are you recommending get added exactly

the stuff they would’ve worn is quite in line with the game as far as i can tell

[ancient frost]

@vocal vale Clothing, more blackened and blued armours, the sabres used by all sides as it was the primary weapon of choice for everyone in this area/period. Matthias was the first person to implement the arquebus as a military unit. Vlads army utilised the handgonne

[vocal vale]

i mean in the area of half sword’s domain it wasn’t

it would be neat for a dlc or something

[ancient frost]

I figured, romania/hungary/czech was not far from Germany, the soldiers of vlad used alot of German steel and also swiss armour, when not using looted Ottoman equipment.

Also, Ottoman equipment would be a good addition, they ran rampant throughout the 15th century

Ontop of that, the black army that matthias commanded was very much the largest professional army on that side of Europe, for basically all of the 15th century, including the time period half sword is set in.

[coral path]

anyone got that bascinet with sallet visor

still a bascinet

[sterile crane]

Sallet with bascinet visor

[coral path]

still a sallet

bassinet

[sterile crane]

Armet with hounskull and sallet visor

I find pretty cool the aesthetic of the armet with visor raised but wrapper on covering half the face

[coral path]

I mean, this is a sallet.

its a bit late for the game

[coral path]

(Catalan mercenary)

[tight umbra]

Ok it took me like 5 mins but i see it now

[cloud siren]

pretty much the same right ?

got bored then decided to just sketch it

[slim bear]

Yes but i dont like the french sallet

[ancient pivot]

Is the bevor not hinged at the same point as the visor?

[silver heart]

i believe it’s a case where it was originally a sallet and later converted into a ‘close helm’ type? at least if it’s based off of the flemish close helm i’m thinking of but i could be mistaken.

[terse bronze]

It's sacre not sacré

[quaint shore]

holy shit i see it

looking at it now

actually goes kinda crazy

[granite blade]

That's my friends, made by oleg, it was beautiful in person

[candid rapids]

scare blue

[terse bronze]

?

[candid rapids]

sacre bleu

scare blue

[terse bronze]

Ok

[cloud siren]

isint it sacred blue ?

[candid rapids]

possibly

[terse bronze]

It comes from Sacré Dieu but changed so it wouldn't involve God so it changed into Sacre Bleu because they kinda sound alike

Like Oh my God -> Oh my Gosh

[lethal adder]

mama mia....

[coral path]

Swedish maxxed

[coral path]

yes

[slender egret]

whats this channel for

[terse bronze]

Posting references for the game

For weapons, armors ect

[sterile crane]

mr nose, mr beak and mr T

[vocal vale]

[slim bear]

Mr. Nose = better chest protection
Mr. Beak = better head protection
Mr. T = better mobility

[tight umbra]

whos better protected??
mr. T or mr. nose

[idle valley]

mr T

[slim bear]

Mr.T's legs are exposed

Mr nose atleast has a breastplate/cuirass and greaves

[tight umbra]

no, mr t has breastplate and greaves, mr nose has hauberk

[slim bear]

But mr.T can be stabbed in the face easier

[tight umbra]

i mean mr nose just as easily

the nasal isnt well against stbas

[slim bear]

What if i bully Mr.T

[tight umbra]

he will spear you through the stomach

[slim bear]

But what if i was mr.Beak

[tight umbra]

he will spear you in the thigh

[candid rapids]

what if mr t and mr nose morphed into mr tose

[tight umbra]

mr toes

[terse bronze]

holy larp

[slate mulch]

https://giphy.com/gifs/larp-king-ishowspeed-looks-at-riOXDXKi21xZ02Bg0M

[cloud siren]

gentlemen , i must utilize more cool helmets from you all .

[sterile crane]

Why aint mr beak an option, full head and face plus throat protection with plate, plus full torso protection with plate via brig, gauntlets and greaves

Nvm i might be stupid

[sterile crane]

Any chance of this sallet being added?

1470-80

[slate mulch]

evil colander helmet

[vocal vale]

have you checked to make sure it’s not already in game

[sterile crane]

wait i think it is

but its got a diferent visor

oversized

[sterile crane]

ohhh and then another sallet in the game has that one's visor

[tight umbra]

way out of game time period but its a nice looking helm. c. 1620's

[bright token]

Hi ppl I have a question did armet with hinges that open horizontally exist during the 15th century? I have picture of what Im trying to say but they are from the 16th century

[silver heart]

if there are, they’d likely originate in the very extreme late 15th century. i had thought the thun sketchbook had shown some examples but all of them were from the first quarter of the 16th and the one dated to 1495-1505 was, in actuality, a sallet.

[bright token]

i see, thank you Ser Brewvi 😄

[slate mulch]

random bullshit go

[fleet junco]

italy

[silver heart]

will always love the look of haubergon sleeves over vambraces.

[coral path]

ca. 1460 - 'St. Adrian' (maybe by Nic(o)laus Gerhaert van Leiden), Koninklijke Musea voor Kunst en Geschiedenis, Brussel, Belgium

ca. 1450 - 'shield bearer to Katharina von Böhmen', facade Stephansdom, Wien Museum Karlsplatz, Austria

ca. 1450 - 'cart of Sainte-Gertrude', Collégiale Sainte-Gertrude, Nivelles, province of Walloon Brabant, Belgium

[bright token]

His cuirass looks strange lol

[hollow skiff]

Maybe they misunderstood a gorget? U should ask @vocal vale

[terse bronze]

That just look like placard décoration tbh

[bright token]

I see thank you kevlar!

[sterile crane]

Cool alla tedesca armor

[silver heart]

that sallet and bevor do not seem to fit with one another. unless i’m tweaking.

[sterile crane]

The bevor is from around 1460/70 and the sallet is around 1470/80

Bevor has a fun little chin piece on it too

[coral path]

Im under the impression that its real, just could be a display failure

[silver heart]

ahhh okay. i was gonna say i figured it was just a case where the curator needed two pieces of roughly the same period and didn’t have one on hand that accompanied the other.

but still very fine nonetheless.

[sterile crane]

But yeah the pieces are from from various diferent italian makers and some are german (like the sallet and leg)

[coral path]

Old world armoury repro

[sterile crane]

I also really liked the shape of the sallet

[coral path]

Epitaph des Johann II. von Ziegenhain (1450), Haina, Hesse

[sterile crane]

Interesting spaulders

[coral path]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6NhyPC93wQg

[cloud siren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw8GGnfdz2M

bannerlord’s war of roses mod , looks absolutely stunning 🔥🔥🔥

[silver heart]

recent still one of the artists working on the project took. they’ve got a whole discord where they show off previews.

[fleet junco]

is that the fov messing up that sallet

[slim bear]

Sallet forlong head

[idle valley]

the coventry sallet is like that

[tight umbra]

Is it out? Cant check

Im assuming no cause only good bl mod thats out is shokuho

[ancient pivot]

Not yet

[void stream]

damn i'm buying bannerlord just bc of this mod

[coral path]

you need bannerlord anyways

[coral path]

scottish yo 1483

[vivid solar]

Bro's head movement is cooked

[silver heart]

would not at all be highly restrictive of head pivoting. if you'd like a case example of a helm that does such a thing then look no further than the 'great bascinet' (even then you can still move your head within the helm and it's more so the rotation of your neck that is limited).

[vivid solar]

He can't move his head back

Like to look up

[terse bronze]

what else do you need to see up there when you're already on horseback

[silver heart]

but what if the knight really enjoys birdwatching kevlar???

[terse bronze]

true..

[tidal ermine]

What’s that helmet?

[slate mulch]

cabasset iirc idk kev help

[coral path]

capacete or cabasset

[slate mulch]

o yay i was right

[robust tendon]

war hat, capacete/cabasset is just spanish for the same thing iirc

[tidal ermine]

What helmet is this?

[terse bronze]

morion

[slate mulch]

hi robin

[weak halo]

Were these posted here yet?

[silver heart]

what is the name of that garment worn over the harness of the lad on the right?

[slate mulch]

schecke

[sterile crane]

that pauldron looking good

[coral path]

Also its good to mention that "its various parts were not originally made to go together" and "Left is a silver coin minted for him in 1509 which shows him fully armoured, riding on a warhorse" [CM.82-1999]-“Highlights from Our Collection.” The Fitzwilliam Museum, https://fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/explore-our-collection/highlights/M11A-H-1936.

I also read that someone claimed this to be "peytral is actually from XIX century, it was commissioned from frederick stibbert (1838 – 1906)" and it was "based on Paolo Uccello painting in Santa Maria del Fiore cathedral in Florence."

[silver heart]

https://tenor.com/view/fentcord-true-coyote-gif-2599436844608872721

[coral path]

idk if you were aware or not lmao mb

Claimed to be an image of "previous version of this model. The photo is dated 1938; in this year fascist regime organized an exposition in Palazzo Vecchio with a good part of the collection of Stibbert Museum to celebrate the Adolf Hitler visit."

[silver heart]

i was not. i pulled it from pinterest and lazily did not google image search it. just found it neat.

[coral path]

I just like to nerd out ig

[terse smelt]

i thought that was triple t on his horse..

my brain is ruined

[terse smelt]

hello mordschlag

[coral path]

whasspu

[terse smelt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1384762307334373467/1501854973678321666/togif.gif

siiiiigh..

[terse bronze]

virus

[coral path]

virus

[terse smelt]

NOT an ip grabber i sweeear

u can click on it guys

[coral path]

el goblino cat

[terse bronze]

birus

[coral path]

no

[bleak ore]

Beautiful Armet

[coral path]

his right couter omg

[bleak ore]

I will never understand how people have so much patience and skill to create such art

[blazing valve]

my god its willie halfsword

[sly fern]

https://tenor.com/view/malware-thanos-thanos-talking-thanos-meme-thanos-virus-thanos-malware-gif-8799721082166594055

[blazing valve]

spyware

[sly fern]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-rule8-gif-21572402

[gray yoke]

Why'd you send it twice

[sly fern]

misktake.

[gray yoke]

Pink roles bruh

[sly fern]

im bout to turn red bro

chill

🖐️

[dim mauve]

Not sure how much I'd agree with the statement about being able to move your head inside the great bascinet.

Im trying to recall what wearing mine was like but I haven't put it on in ages.

I cant imagine being able to move your head inside a great bascinet would be particularly useful though.

I'd say the functuonal purpose of a great bascinet was to fit tightly enough around the skull that the skull and helmet dont really move independently of eachother. The helmet itself then straps to the front and back of the ciurass giving the helmet a very limited and stiff range of movement which acts as shock absorption.

[silver heart]

i’m aware of its purpose and design. it’s one of my favorite helmets after all from the period.

https://youtu.be/cuGoj9jA8_0?t=633&si=-RF911bTf9pPXD03

i didn’t mean that you can do sweeping pivots to side to side, rather the opposite. you can still move your head itself ever so slightly but obviously not to the same degree of a mail aventailed bascinet, as showcased here.

[dim mauve]

Earlier design, I'd say great bascinets from the time period that this channel is about were usually more tightly fitted.

Not many helmets I'd choose over this exact one I won't lie

[tight umbra]

I like it

Its great

[silver heart]

and i’d agree. the design i was referencing in my initial message was said earlier variety.

[silver heart]

@dim mauve
would you mind sending a photo of your great bascinet? need to remind myself what i’m working for…

[dim mauve]

Yeah in about 90minutes. Its like the one in the image above but not as tightly shaped around the neck

[dim mauve]

That's it.

[slim bear]

Mr. Bird and mr. Knight

[dim mauve]

Need to replace the piece that overlaps the bottom of the visor cus I had to batter it out a bit to improve the visor fitting

[royal wave]

The visor makes it look almost like a frogmouth, cool stuff

[dim mauve]

Yeah, I do prefer the other visor though, the perforated one

[granite patrol]

arent those houndskulls?

[terse bronze]

hounskull = name of the visor

on the thumbnail, the one on the left is a regular bascinet with hounskull visor, the right is a greatbascinet with hounskull visor

[granite patrol]

Thanks for the info

[tight umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/flightreacts-clapping-impressed-flight-giftok-gif-17100133105947638972

[cloud siren]

21-27 ANDREA DEL CASTAGNO, Pippo Spano, from the Villa Pandolfini, Florence, c. 1448. Fresco, 8' × 5' 5". Galleria degli Uffizi, Florence.

[coral path]

Mr. Collins...?

Scream if you love Sweden

[slim bear]

mr.Willie, mr. flag

[coral path]

John Sweden

[slim bear]

mr. Sweden, mr. Italy

[coral path]

"What?"

[vocal vale]

epic salletail

[slate mulch]

evil falchion or is that just a saber

[tight umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/scream-if-you-love-sweden-scream-gif-14526925353504653019

[tight umbra]

next gen half sword graphics

[terse bronze]

Bent sworf

[thorny otter]

By Ondřej Kašpar for Benedetto of magli di acciaio

[slate mulch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/845318240745160775/1420173120022515823/s3QQGPl.gif

[rigid gull]

Som en svene (As a Swde): WRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHH

[terse bronze]

I have this booke

[silver heart]

any other examples? me likey.

[terse bronze]

https://discord.com/channels/1043854763189600337/1447680347205664821

[cloud siren]

Saint George slaying the beast . By : Bernat Martorell, created around 1434–1435.

tbh any art depicting Saint George killing the dragon will always look cool no matter what artist was painting it

[terse bronze]

true

[robust tendon]

too early for the game unfortunately
still very cool

[tight umbra]

if this image didnt hae this stupid watermark over it i'd put it as my pfp, looks great

[terse bronze]

source is
bibliotheque municipale de Boulogne Sur Mer. Ms 97
feel free to look for it