references♥_1450-1470

[vocal vale]

he’s asking you to clarify

do you mean the cloth on the breastplate

[tight umbra]

Yeah

I replied to the wrong msg

[lament wolf]

you know i love love love history and like all that but these naming conventions are absolutely dogshit

sorry that’s really mean

but like the could name them something better like Johnny and Bobby

[winter saddle]

mmm bobby

[cold yew]

Bobo und baba

[unkempt rampart]

No

Secret helms evolved into the Bascinet iirc so they weren’t around at all

[quaint shore]

Skullcaps were worn with berets sometimes Though

I think

Some form of beret

Also in later periods skullcaps (or sturmhaubes i need to check up on my armor knowledge) were worn under those landsknecht hats So

[unkempt rampart]

Yeah they had a resurgence in the 1500s but that’s about it

The evolution of cervelliere to Bascinet is incredibly interesting though

[quaint shore]

I see

[tight umbra]

wish we get sabers in half sword

[quaint shore]

thats like

200 years after the 15th century

Maybe if they make a 16th century dlc you’ll see dussacks perhaps

[silver heart]

@vocal vale I FOUND IT!!!

idk why i was thinking flower but i knew it was some sort of vaguely plant shaped pauldron reinforcement…

[vocal vale]

teardrop

[tight umbra]

hungarians and ottomans used sabers iirc in the 15th century just hope we get it as a dlc

i really love balkan weaponry

[quaint shore]

yeah the east has been using them for a while, its just they showed up in europe by the 1600s

[simple owl]

https://manuscriptminiatures.com/

Cool image board for medieval manuscripts, you can search by tags and dates and stuff

[zenith forge]

awesome! I was literally just going to ask about something like that, thanks!

[simple owl]

No problem!

[terse bronze]

Just fyi, there isn't any manuscripts miniatures scanned on this website that fits the game timeframe

Also I already posted that link, it's pinned in this channel

with many other useful links

[zenith forge]

found a cool depiction of an Armet in 1435 it

specifically in Italy

[coral path]

some of them are not deted correctly either

[simple owl]

I think it’s been a while since it’s been updated at all

[coral path]

1450-1460, Florence, Biblioteca Riccardiana 492.

gonna stop cuz I could post prob a thousand images of it

"Details from the Trinity Altarpiece by Hugo van der Goes c. 1475 . Scottish National Gallery. Edinburgh" (Flemish)

[fleet junco]

he looks like willie

[coral path]

I like that the gauntlets are on the crossguard

these guys look tough af btw

[terse bronze]

i'm the guy in blue

[white fulcrum]

im the guy in the green coat

[midnight thunder]

I'm the guy wearing yellow

[fleet junco]

im the guy with the red hat

[quaint shore]

im the guy in the fancy coat

[lethal adder]

im the guy taking the picture

[coral path]

I wrote the damn thing

[tight umbra]

im the guy wearing the green hat

[candid rapids]

im the picture frame

[zenith forge]

I like Italian/Milanese stuff

That is all

[coral path]

nuh uh, your actually this guy now

[coral path]

Vienna. Österreichische Nationalbibliothek, Cod. 2538. Ca.1470-1490 (Western France)

[coral path]

Vienna. Österreichische Nationalbibliothek, Cod. 3438. Ca.1450-1474 (French) "Blancandin or l'Orgueilleuse d'Amour"

[weak halo]

WIP from Rudolph Harywald

It's going to be so sexy once finished

[coral path]

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, Latin 7236. Ca.1463

[coral path]

Paris. Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal, Ms-630 réserve. Ca.1453-1463 (Italy)

[coral path]

Dijon. Municipal Library, Ms. 493. Ca.1469

[coral path]

Publii Vergilii Maronis Opera f.200v. Biblioteca Històrica, BH Ms. 837. Ca.1470-1490

Publii Vergilii Maronis opera BH Ms. 0891 Ca.1465

[coral path]

gonna forward my messages

[dim mauve]

Made hose and arming doublet, waiting on some silk velvet to make a fancy doublet

The hose I made are fine but I think I'm going to make another arming doublet alongside the velvet doublet because I used materials I had on hand, not the materials i want for an arming doublet

Got the pattern now anyway

[terse bronze]

[terse bronze]

gun!

[coral path]

im gonna post more lmao

[terse bronze]

And plenty of giorneas worn sandwiches between bp and placarts

[coral path]

awesome stuff

[terse bronze]

Also evidences of crossbowmen (or shot infantry in general) taking cover behind "dedicated" pavisiers instead of having the pavise themselves

[coral path]

me (us) in dadg

[terse bronze]

flancards, faulds and standalone breastplate

[coral path]

more cool guys

this looks like an awesome level

[terse bronze]

they did all that without hitmarkers .. #hardcore

[coral path]

Abbeville, Pierre Gérard et Jean Du Pré, Ca.1486-1487

[coral path]

why cant I upload anything inhere

Abbeville. Bibliothèque municipale

[silver heart]

@coral path your sources are always so goated, vro❤️

[coral path]

everytime it means a lot man, thanks

[coral path]

St. Gallen. Stiftsbibliothek, Cod. Sang. 602 Ca.1451-1460

willie drunkard

[gritty steppe]

guys

guess what

[coral path]

armour?

[gritty steppe]

Chicken butt

[coral path]

This is a historical channel sir

[bright token]

Hello everyone a friend asks me is a gambeson with straps on the chest area similar to those on a brigandine historically accurate?

[cloud rapids]

i imagine chicken butts were around in the 1450s

[light nova]

By the 1460s at least

[fleet junco]

i dont think they used leather straps to enclose a gambeson

they just used leather strips

they no use buckles

or they use those buttoned puff things

source? idk

@terse bronze

[coral path]

are we talking 1450-1470 gambeson?

[fleet junco]

i think were talking about vague gambeson

[robust tendon]

yeah ive not seen it personally

[coral path]

agreed

[livid swallow]

i pray one day we can simply raise visors instead of discarding the whole thing

[coral path]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1082232813698424884/1127583984654753872/BB.gif

this mf just raised it

[coral path]

"Complete Equipment of a handgunner from the free city of Frankfurt on his way to the siege of Neuss 1475" -Geschichtsfenster

[coral path]

KB 74 G37a (Book of Hours of Simon de Varie) Ca.1455

[coral path]

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, French 4985 BNF Fr. 4985. Ca.1435-1445

Honorable mention

[fleet junco]

we should famous people from this era jnto this game

we need fiore, la hire

forgot the rest

[coral path]

Fiore dei Liberi died before 1450

[coral path]

(same MS)

[fleet junco]

rip my boy

[coral path]

also la hire died in the 1440s

look at him on the left tho ❤️‍🔥

[fleet junco]

why did all thr cool people die before halfsword

[coral path]

Cologny. Fondation Martin Bodmer, Cod. Bodmer 44. Ca.1480

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, Latin 771. Ca.1475

[coral path]

if anything Cola Rapicano should be in the game

yeah this guy

[fleet junco]

lets ping frank and tell him to add him

cant believe he named himself after a soft drink

[coral path]

aura

dude wrote such a good S

[eager nymph]

are those cards on the middle right?

[coral path]

yeah lmao

[eager nymph]

interesting . . .

it'd be nice to see more images like this

very awesome

[coral path]

Ca.1475 by Cola Rapicano

[coral path]

Stuttgart. Württembergische Landesbibliothek, Cod.Don.324. Ca.1470-1480

[coral path]

Paris. Bibliothèque nationale de France, Département des manuscrits, Latin 7331 Ca.1450-1492

[dreamy sage]

This is a undertale reference

[coral path]

I dont get it

[dreamy sage]

Sans Boss fight

He launches stuff at u

[latent drift]

what were military ranks below knight

cause i know like men at arms and stuff but even then idk if thats a rank i just wanna know more

[terse bronze]

tbh it's not really about rank but more about roles

banneret, is a man-at-arms who carry the banner, he's typically paid more than a regular man-at-arms or knight

Oh and all knights are men-at-arms, but not all men-at-arms are knights

Then you get "ranks" like marshall that are men-at-arms/knights with the responsibility of being marshalls etc etc

Sergeants, (having shared roots to the word servant) are basically someone appointed by a noble to do whatever

A sergeant can be someone taking care of a noble's land or leading his parts of his troops

then you get captains, ect

[latent drift]

incredibly interesting thank you

[coral path]

Heidelberg. Universitätsbibliothek, Cod. Pal. germ. 84. Ca.1475 - 1482

[fleet junco]

what a silly man

[cloud siren]

guys , do you know a very unique helmet ? . Im running out of ideas to draw from

[fleet junco]

draw bee keeper gear

[cloud siren]

this one ?

kind of looking for a fully metal plated armor or a helmet .

[crude inlet]

Are any of those good?

[terse bronze]

Quit posting absolute garbage

this is the reference channel not the turd channel

[quaint shore]

this guys posture bro

look alive atleast

jesus christ

[fleet junco]

maybe not these helmets

@cloud siren do a generic bicoque

[cloud siren]

yup 👍

kind of

[fleet junco]

no not good

[cloud siren]

ive drawn the bicoque helmet

i need a funky looking one tbh

[fleet junco]

draw a painted black sallet

[cloud siren]

the one with the words on the rims ?

[fleet junco]

could be, yeah

[cloud siren]

yeah that sounds good

[coral path]

these are not references

[coral path]

@cloud siren

[cloud siren]

almost done with the painted sallet ima do that one also

[coral path]

or https://discord.com/channels/1043854763189600337/1446997831746457630

[crude inlet]

Understood

[cloud siren]

hope its cool enough

@coral path @fleet junco

[fleet junco]

that was quick

[cloud siren]

it was pen so yeah it took a minute or so

[fleet junco]

have you done full armor sets yet?

[cloud siren]

nope i js did helmets for practicing lighting

[fleet junco]

you plan on doing it?

[cloud siren]

probably

kastenbrust or italian

or i could do something more unique

if you guys could send some cool armor sets i could draw , that would be great

[quaint shore]

someone pull up st michael

[quaint shore]

yeah

[cloud siren]

sweet

i added the plume and the things coming out from his ears

[silver heart]

@coral path
i’m not well versed on the subject. what is the purpose of said ear slits on those sallets? i’d take it would be to provision the wearer with the ability to have a better sense of hearing for commands and the likes whilst in the field.

[fleet junco]

i think it was for the lining

or maybe it was for elfs...

[silver heart]

that would make sense. the helm doesn’t tend to hamper hearing by that much, at least not enough to risk such a wound.

[bright token]

I like this sort of shield

It got cool shape lol

[proven holly]

I will say a bad word

Job

Brainrot sahur🥰

[coral path]

@prisma raven may have a better idea than I

I actually dont know if the ear slits actually serve a purpose or not

[terse bronze]

hearing / comfort

[fleet junco]

why the one from the museum look very ear cutting

[coral path]

wdym

[fleet junco]

this ine

[coral path]

I'd imagine itd be more comfort for ears

It really looks like a comfortable helmet im ngl

[terse bronze]

it's pretty thick tbh

yeah the edges are jagged but that's cuz it's old

[coral path]

did you by chance read an article of sorts about this?

[terse bronze]

nyet

[coral path]

Thanks

was jus curious

Anton should include it in his thesis

[terse bronze]

Nietzsche spoke of this

[coral path]

I have yet to read his

[weak halo]

Dude's gonna get his ears chopped by glancing blows

[coral path]

ref_arm_1383 Ca.1470-1490

[verbal bramble]

Are we allowed to post 1475 references here? Or do we have to post them on the 1470-1600 channel?

[turbid shadow]

yeah

just post them here

[tight umbra]

theres a channel for that?

[verbal bramble]

Yes indeed: https://discord.com/channels/1043854763189600337/1287593500208005200

[tight umbra]

Anyone got any book or something in that manner where i can pursue learning armor?

Especially would be nice if i can read it online

[coral path]

Any chance your able to buy one of Toby Capwell's books

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sheepdog_rex/41114514611

[coral path]

also a good book (from what ive heard)

I actually pointed that one out yesterday iirc

[thorny otter]

Find this one somewhere. It's not too expensive i believe, and is a comprehensive starting point with some reference through ages and europe. Also features decent list of further reading resources, and a vocabulary - portuguese, english, spanish, french, italian, german

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Identifying-Armour-Dating-1370-1490/dp/908932075X

[coral path]

page from it

[tight umbra]

Wasnt yesterday but maybe you did, i’ll look at it once im home

[tight umbra]

Looks nice

[coral path]

it was in a dif server mb

[tight umbra]

I dont have amazon in my country

But i’ll look

[thorny otter]

just a point of reference, i got it from some dutch press

[tight umbra]

Alr

[coral path]

toby capwells book

[tight umbra]

Might help me with art too

[coral path]

It def will

I love that book

[tight umbra]

Is there any way i can get like a file online in case i cant get a physical copy

Might be hard acquiring it here since im in the balkans

And non eu country

[terse bronze]

Also check out the long list of links I posted that are pinned in this channel

[tight umbra]

I looked into a few here already

[coral path]

this is capwell btw

[thorny otter]

that's some vintage pics

[coral path]

yeah but theyre still badass imo

[thorny otter]

more up to date

[tight umbra]

Looks great

[coral path]

1460, Private Collection. 0.65 Kg

[tight umbra]

what is that?

[tight umbra]

also which one of them do i look at

[coral path]

any of the english knight ones imo

[terse bronze]

shaffron

horse head armor

[tight umbra]

ohh thats cool

[tight umbra]

(dunno if this has been posted here)
an armet with a wrapper, around 1460

and a gilded lion shaped sallet, from italy around 1480 (just wanted to post this one here)

[coral path]

theres a lot thats been posted, I repost sometimes

[tight umbra]

i see

i thought the wrapper looked cool so i posted it

would love to see it in half sword one day

[coral path]

This is the one we have in the game

prob my favorite rn

[fleet junco]

wow, thank you churburg

[tight umbra]

yeah its nice

i like the look of this guys helmet

the visor is pretty nice, and the sabatons have a little snake tongue on them

[coral path]

The helmet is out of period

[tight umbra]

Oh

[coral path]

I've also heard in the past that the set is entirely made up

[tight umbra]

Noo

It looks nice

So the snake tongue on the sabatons were never used?

[cloud siren]

it kinda looks like the strings that holds the armor on you

[fleet junco]

add toby capwell armor

[cloud siren]

see its prob the rope that is tied down to hold the sabatons in place

[coral path]

"This armor was composed from pieces of several different armors and completed with restorations between about 1920 and 1928."

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24814

[tight umbra]

So its just a mix of a bunch of different sets, that sucks

[coral path]

yes

[tight umbra]

Hmm could be that but they dont look like the rope

Might just be the angle idk

[coral path]

"Stamped on the skull of the helmet: ZO beneath a crown; also, stamped twice: ZO beneath a split cross; these presumably refer to Zoan (Giovanni); on the right pauldron (shoulder defense): a misstruck Landshut mark, and the linden leaf mark of armorer Matthes Deutsch; on the outer vambrace of the right arm: BE below an abbreviation sign; stamped twice on the upper left vambrace: YO beneath a split cross; on the outer plate of the lower left vambrace: AN (or AR ?) beneath a crown; stamped twice on the left arm reinforce: two letters beneath a crown with a split cross enclosing a letter (possibly Missaglia workshop marks, MY beneath a crown and M beneath the split cross); on the cuff of the right gauntlet: Polo beneath a crown and with an indecipherable letter beneath a split cross; on the left cuisse: a radiant sun within a circle."

[cloud siren]

the right sabatons have the distinct knot

[tight umbra]

Just looked at it from the front angle and it seems like that, i thought it was a decorative piece lol

Still learning with armor so i might make a few mistakes here and there

[coral path]

Thats how we grow

https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-502

this would be so cool

(repro)

[gray yoke]

i thought there was a helmet exactly like this in the game

or very similar

[coral path]

@gray yoke

This is the Armet we currently have in game

[earnest raptor]

one, two, buckle my shoe

[quaint shore]

ngl the harness goes hard but

[tight umbra]

a gauntlet with a rondel, circa 1480

another armet with a wrapper, circa 1475

a very pointed kettle hat and some other pointed helmets? cant tell

[vital rune]

my guess would be a bascinet

[tight umbra]

could be

i'll try doing some more research

[robust tendon]

they are bassinets

[tight umbra]

An armet, italy c. 1460-75

Kettle hat c. 1460

[tight umbra]

Brigandine c. 1400 and later

[coral path]

bssinet

[coral path]

early

[tight umbra]

Seems like it, but it didnt give any clearer date than just “1400 or later”

[fleet junco]

early 1400s

[coral path]

It looks very similar to a "Venetian" like corazzina

the "or later" doesn't really mean a whole lot

They already dated it to 1400 anyways

[coral path]

yall need fluted greaves?

[thorny otter]

Never forget that this piece went through bashford dean's modifications in early 20th cent

[fleet junco]

fluted greaves r real omg

[robust tendon]

i wouldnt say they are brigs at all

[coral path]

me either

[coral path]

breh

[fleet junco]

what

[coral path]

ofc theyre real

just rare

[fleet junco]

i didnt kniw

[tight umbra]

barbute with a hinged nasal c. 1450

targe c. 1450

also this barbute c. 1450 with the nasal part

[vocal vale]

already in game

[tight umbra]

oh my bad

i dont use barbute like at all so i forget about it

[coral path]

This will be in the game

[light nova]

realest thing ever posted

[tight umbra]

cool

[tight umbra]

that was posted somewhere or? i dont remember seeing it anywhere

[coral path]

its old

A lot of the new armour in the game was modeled a while ago

[tight umbra]

so they already modeled it just yet to be added?

[coral path]

unless Ivan were to say no

which is unlikely

since its a badass helmet that fits the time period

[tight umbra]

one day we will be able to simulate the hinges and the nasal hinge wouldnt be just decorative

also how effective were the nasal parts?

[coral path]

To me they look pretty effective

does a lot more than you think

(in the near future i'd imagine we will be able to lift visors, including these)

[tight umbra]

hmm i can probably imagine how it would work and it also dosent obstruct the view too much

[coral path]

Not a lot of helmets really do if its "fitted"

and not like a crazy big helmet on your small head

[tight umbra]

i can see the nasal part deflecting cuts quite nicely

i dont see how it would defend against thrusts though

[terse bronze]

it wouldnt much

[tight umbra]

i thought so

[torpid urchin]

Anyone have anything on the resources that inspired half sword’s greatswords

[terse bronze]

do you have screenshots

[cloud siren]

Title : Guiron le Courtois |France.| c.1450 source : Bibliothèque nationale de France (BnF) manuscript Français 356

[vocal vale]

i’ve seen this dated way earlier before

[cloud siren]

you sure ?

ima check rq

[terse bronze]

it's an error

manuscriptminiature dated it to the 20s because there's some pages that were made in 1420s early in the MS but the majority of it is from the 50s

[cloud siren]

so its c.1450 ?

[terse bronze]

yes

[cloud siren]

apparently its a romance themed manuscript

[vocal vale]

wack

[terse bronze]

romance didn't really means "romance" as in love story btw

it was kind of term for .. uh.. stories iicr

[cloud siren]

so in chivalrous fashion ?

[terse bronze]

in modern french we have "roman" meaning novels as in books

wait actually nvm it might be actually romance

i think i'm dumb

Guiron le Courtois is an arthurian story btw

[cloud siren]

zang

[torpid urchin]

i'll find some

[terse bronze]

I feel like that's just a regular LS but scaled up tbh

[torpid urchin]

what about this one

[terse bronze]

that's the same isn't it

[torpid urchin]

no it's the symmetrical one

its this one

[coral path]

longsword

[torpid urchin]

are all of these scaled longswords?

[coral path]

depends on who you ask

[torpid urchin]

according to the demo these are greatswords in that case

[coral path]

Chantilly. Library and Archives of the Château, Ms. 730 Ca.1450-1470

[fringe shard]

In this era would cuirasses have been more commonly found with the longer flowing gambesons or the late medieval, shorter flowing jacks?

[tawny zephyr]

Always interesting to point out the second one is a depiction of David vs. Goliath

[tight umbra]

The siege depictions are my favorite

[robust tendon]

gambesons arent rly a thing in this period

it would be jacks

but important to note that jacks arent worn under full harness

[fringe shard]

when did gambesons fall out of use?

[robust tendon]

I can’t say, i’m not knowledgeable on that

[fringe shard]

Yes, I meant the one sided cuirasses with straps on the back

[robust tendon]

if it’s one sided it isn’t a cuirass by definition iirc

but not too sure

[fringe shard]

oh I don’t know that. Any idea what it would be called?

[robust tendon]

breastplate

[tight umbra]

Breastplate

Oh didnt see crecy already responded to you

Hmm would we get backplates in half sword?

[coral path]

yeah you find that everywhere though

[coral path]

Famous scale skull cap I found as well

[tight umbra]

Love scale armor

[coral path]

Geneva. Library of Geneva, Ms. fr. 64 Ca.1480

Paris. Bibliothèque Mazarine, Ms 1559. Ca.1450-1474 (Northern France)

[coral path]

Paris. Bibliothèque Mazarine, Ms 1560. Ca.1450-1474

[coral path]

Paris. Bibliothèque nationale de France, Département des manuscrits, Français 134. Ca.1467-1475

[slim terrace]

what the FUCK is this thing

[terse bronze]

monke

[coral path]

eknom

motherfucker

Lisbon. National Library of Portugal, ***. 192 Ca.1486 - 1488

[slim terrace]

also this guys build is phenomenal

[coral path]

Mâcon. Médiathèque, Ms. 3. Ca.1465-1474

[coral path]

I got 180 the other day

[terse bronze]

Médiathèque 🗣️ 🔥

[tight umbra]

brainrot filter should be turned off here

[quaint shore]

brainrot filter kinda just sucks ass

Whys that word tagged anyways??

[tight umbra]

now i cant say the name of that one hit gorillaz song

[tight umbra]

Will we get backplates to use with breastplates in half sword

[light nova]

I like the small amount of brainrot here it is nice

[coral path]

Anvers. Musée Plantin-Moretus, M 15.5. Ca.1475-1485

Antwerp. Plantin-Moretus Museum, M 15.6. Ca.1470-1488

Austin. University of Texas, Harry Ransom Center, HRC 48.

[coral path]

very nice scabbard

[robust tendon]

love rainguards

[coral path]

Chantilly. Bibliothèque et Archives du Château, Ms. 873. Ca.1472

Chantilly. Library and Archives of the Château, Ms. 874. Ca.1472

Los Angeles. The Getty, Ms. Ludwig XIII 7 (83.MP.150) Ca.1480-1483

Something feels late here, sources say otherwise.

[coral path]

ref_arm_3171 Higgins Armoury Museum-Worcester 2606-H-5

[tight umbra]

any other place where i can find references except the ones pinned?

they're pretty good sources but i wanna see if theres something more

a backplate, c. 1475 (might fit into the game? unlikely)

heres something that fits better in the games timeframe, between 1440-80

[quaint shore]

i feel like there needs to be a 1600s thread

idk why but

[nimble mason]

p sure this is ingame

[vocal vale]

#1287593500208005200

[quaint shore]

like

17th century

[vocal vale]

just use that thread

[quaint shore]

i see

[coral path]

we have a similar breastplate

[thorny otter]

Beware of this piece, backplate comes from a different suit (churburg s25 to be exact), and was missing fauld, and this is what they came with in Royal armouries in the 50s to match this breastplate.

[bright token]

Found this cool cuirass, museum said its from around 1460-1470s

https://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/en/collection/00052371 source

[tight umbra]

its a pretty nice design

[coral path]

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, Italian 1108. Ca.1471

chad

[golden widget]

Isn't this already in the game?

[coral path]

yes

It was a repo I hadent seen before

[golden widget]

Ah I see

[tight umbra]

dope horse and a bird on his finger truly a chad

[rigid gull]

C a t. A r m o u r

[tight umbra]

this should be an easteregg with the tavern cat

[coral path]

Bible of Borso d'Este. Ca.1455-1461 (Vol.1)

[prisma raven]

https://tenor.com/view/one-peak-one-piece-one-piece-cry-its-so-peak-gif-13413926760013023520

[coral path]

theres so much of it and for some reason the library of congress isnt working

So thats what I got!

[tight umbra]

I love carefully observing pictures like these

[vocal vale]

holding the crossbow like a rocket launcher

this is ominous

[coral path]

Holy peak

[coral path]

Bible of Borso d'Este. Ca.1455-1461 (Vol. 2)

What a badass

[vocal vale]

rad manuscript dude

[gray yoke]

this one too 🔥

[coral path]

I thought I'd share

[coral path]

Ref_arm4367 Klingbeil Collection 212. Ca.1450-1460

2100 Royal Armouries-Leeds RA IV.18 1450-1470

[vocal vale]

whut da hell !!! i ain’t never seen this before

might need to append this to my grand bascinet paper

[cloud siren]

is that Kastenbrust ?

[vocal vale]

it’s a helmet

[tight umbra]

i thought its a cuirass

[terse bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/far-cry-3-vass-montenegro-did-i-ever-tell-you-the-definition-of-insanity-insanity-gif-9162815073500878983

[rancid dragon]

It looks like a mix between a grand bascinet and a bicoque

[vocal vale]

bicoque is a term that means nothing, it’s more accurate to call them early close helms or early german armets

the picture is just a grand bascinet

[vocal vale]

the picture?

[tight umbra]

lol im joking

you said 'its a helmet' when in the picture it was obviously a helmet

[eager nymph]

at grok is this true

[vocal vale]

grok: yes

[tight umbra]

Omg grok are you real

[restive geyser]

@terse bronze hey bro, do you have that link for the book about armory?

[vocal vale]

beaten black and blue?

[restive geyser]

Yeah i think so

The one with pictures and the definitions?

Or was it dates near the picture of the armory?

[vocal vale]

was it in italian?

[restive geyser]

That idk

I've seen Kevlar send pics of it a few times

I need it so the artist i usually comm can have good references

[vocal vale]

oh that one

i dont have a pdf but it's the english knight books by toby capwell

[tight umbra]

https://issuu.com/jammdesign/docs/aotek_1400-1450_selection

@restive geyser heres the english knight book if you want it, i've yet to read it

[vocal vale]

pretty sure this be a constituent of the "album" book

also that's like 10 pages

[tight umbra]

its 50

[vocal vale]

regardless that's only a sixth of the book

[restive geyser]

This is indeed what I am looking for

By chance, do you think someone posted the pdf here?

[vocal vale]

nah

[restive geyser]

Darn

I can always send the artist examples of like armory in manuscripts too

[tight umbra]

oh

well what am i supposed to do then lmao

i cant buy a physical copy

is there any other pdf i can read cause idk if i can buy any of the books

[coral path]

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, French 2609 Ca.1471

It's a classic, im sure its been posted here more than a few times

[latent drift]

is this a bishop with armor?

[coral path]

decided to actually thoroughly look through it

[coral path]

no idea

scream if you love scotland

[coral path]

actually I think so

theres a lot clergymen depicted throughout the middle ages wearing armour

[latent drift]

interesting

[coral path]

BNF Français 2644, f.275v

[latent drift]

do you think bishops actually went to battle or are they supposed to mean somthing else entirely

[coral path]

well it def looks like they did

[tight umbra]

big wooden horse is the first thing i see

[coral path]

you see those "whatever you look at first, says abt you" bs vids

lmao

[vocal vale]

bishops went to battle but they did not wear big silly hats

[latent drift]

ah so it was most likely just to represent that its a bishop rather

[slate mulch]

but big silly hat is cool...

[vocal vale]

"Indeed, the Bishop of Beauvais, having seen the brother of the King of the English, a man of incredible strength whom the English had on this account nicknamed Longsword, overthrow the men of Dreux and do great harm to his brother's battalion, the bishop became unhappy, and since by chance he happened to have a mace in his hand, hiding his identity of bishop, he hits the Englishman on the top of the head, shatters his helmet, and throws him to the ground forcing him to leave on it the imprint of his whole body.

And, since the author of such a noble deed could not remain unnoticed, and since a bishop should not be known to have carried arms, he tries to hide as much as possible and gives orders to John, whom Nesle obeys by the right of his ancestors, to put the warrior in chains and to receive the prize for the deed. Then the bishop, throwing down several more men with his mace, again renounces his titles of honor and his victories in favor of other knights so as not to be accused of having done work unlawful for a priest, as a priest is never allowed to be present at such encounters since he must not desecrate either his hands or his eyes with blood."

"hiding his identity of bishop"
"unlawful of a priest.. he must not descerate either his hands or his eyes with blood."

[latent drift]

incredibly fascinating

thank you for sharing this with me

[tight umbra]

does anyone have a depiction of a siege machine like a batter ram or a ranged thingy like a trebuchet? i wanna see them

[restive geyser]

Bellifortis

I have sent some before

[restive geyser]

1437, Austria

Iirc this is Bellifortis

A lot of wacky shit in the manuscripts

Down to some unique Pluteja, cannons and other cooler stuff

And the armets are cool too, I think Sam and Mordschlag have some more bellifortis stuff.

@coral path awaken my king!

[tight umbra]

I suppose theres also the ottoman siege one

I forgot the name but the bombardments were crazy

[coral path]

It's Cod.3062

ill post it in the other channel

https://discord.com/channels/1043854763189600337/1287593473217790034

[coral path]

Châteauroux. Equinoxe Media Library, Ms. 5 Ca.1455-1465

[prisma raven]

Banger

[restive geyser]

Is that a kettle or Eisenhut with a brass brim?

Or is that a Orle sallet??

[coral path]

orle

[restive geyser]

Strange depiction of them ngl

They look very thin

Like almost like they are a brim for the helmet

[coral path]

idk I dont really see it tbh

[restive geyser]

Just me then

Either way

Rly good manuscript with a colorful range of kits and armory

Skullcaps, armets and a lot of nice sallets

Even some sallets without a visor on the bottom right

[coral path]

yeah they pretty common i'd say

tail?

[coral path]

heres the trim your looking for

[vocal vale]

he’s facing the opposite direction for that to work

[restive geyser]

That's likely a coif(prob not) or a fringed hood

[coral path]

idk it really looks like a tail to me

[restive geyser]

Well

There a white outline around the bottom of the helmet

[vocal vale]

shit i was looking at the wrong guy

[restive geyser]

That tail is also white, I am assuming it's some form of cloth underneath the sallet being represented

[vocal vale]

pretty sure it’s just the neck of his doublet and he’s wearing a hoqueton over it

[coral path]

agreed

[restive geyser]

What are these little frills?

On the waist

They're shown twice in these manuscripts

[coral path]

really not sure on that one

looks something worn under the breastplate

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, French 2610 Ca.1450-1499

wierd ass manuscript

[restive geyser]

It's some like

Fould cover?

[light nova]

That's my idea

[tight umbra]

@coral path do you know if this breastplate fits into the games time period? for me it seems like its from around 1480-1490

[restive geyser]

Isn't this one already ingame??

[coral path]

not really

[coral path]

https://www.clevelandart.org/art/1916.1720

just late 15th so around there

reminds me of

[coral path]

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, French 6465

[coral path]

Saint Petersburg. National Library of Russia, Erm. fr. 88 Ca.1453-1458

[restive geyser]

I've seen tis artist before

He a big fan of glided armor

[coral path]

Jean Fouquet is a very widely known artist for the period

😄

[lone osprey]

damn that illustration in the trench with the bombard is so comfy

impressively natural for 1450s. ||[excluding fouqet, bartholmey d'eyck, other good frenchies]|| chronicle illustrations at the beginning of the 16th struggle to make it that far

all the stuff by that artist is great

[terse bronze]

remind me of those (respectively 1480s and ~1500)

[lone osprey]

that great burgundian chroncile one is a banger
is the other one from von eyb's kriegsbuch?

[terse bronze]

Ms. B 26 - Kriegsbuch yup

[tight umbra]

i thought this guy was holding a rifle for some reason

it kinda looks like one

[terse bronze]

It is one

Well, "rifle".. it's a gun

[tight umbra]

i forgot to clarify. i meant like these toy wooden rifles

idk why i thought of that

[coral path]

Ca.1460 John Gaynesford / Gainsford

[restive geyser]

I do wonder

Was there a designated engineer who did this, or was it a effort by the whole army

[restive geyser]

Remember those fould cover thingies in that manuscript you sent that one day?

[coral path]

❓

[restive geyser]

These

I think it's part of a under shirt or smthing

[tight umbra]

Looke like a shirt to me

[dim mauve]

1470s hose I've been making, still not quite finished, doublet is required to hold the hose up and fit them properly.

[tight umbra]

i love how you're showing off the hose but im looking at the cat

[dim mauve]

I'm not sure how historical the cat is.

[tight umbra]

very historically accurate

[dim mauve]

probably the same fucken cat tbh

[robust tendon]

unarmored guy with the greatsword goes hard

[turbid shadow]

lubeck jack mentioned

[tight umbra]

pretty tuff

[light nova]

Do you have any context on the last image?

I'm just really interested on what it is depicting

[turbid shadow]

knighting?

[tight umbra]

Maybe

[lone topaz]

the way hes holding that sword looks a bit violent for a knighting

[light nova]

That is what I am thinking

[coral path]

Date: c. 1476 Private collection

[coral path]

one sec

[light nova]

Thank you!

[fast pagoda]

the caption on the previous page is "vnd ist die figur hernach gemalt wie man in zů ritter schlůg"
with some translational leeway, this is "and is the figure thereafter painted, how one is struck a knight"
the only meaning for schlug I know is a variation of schlag, but there could be something that makes more sense for that. but being "struck into knighthood" still fits with the sword imagery, etc.

"And before that--years ago--our Holy Father, Pope Martin, was at the Lord's Mass of the cathedral in Constance. There were two patriarchs, all cardinals, and many spiritual princes and lords--as well as our lord the King, two Prince-Electors, and other knights and soldiers. And after the blessing of the Mass, the Pope sat on a throne, and our Lord the King took Heinrich of Ulm--who was the Master of the town--and led him by his hand to the Lord's altar, before the Pope, and ordered him to kneel down. And before them all, struck him as a knight with a bare sword, according to the custom and tradition of striking a knight."
Again, "struck" is the literal meaning. But it is actually to "dub" him as a knight.

[coral path]

"And before the envoys, who had been sent here by the Holy Father Pope Martin, there came to him in the same place the most distinguished princes and lords, spiritual princes and secular ones, here the king himself, together with princes and other lords and servants. And after this, when the pope saw the king, he commanded him, and the king humbly received from him what was presented, and went forward before him with bare head and on foot toward the pope, and knelt down and, before all present, showed himself in such humility, with bare head, as is proper and customary. And the figure was then made according to how one saw him behave."

[fast pagoda]

urs is probs more accurate, mine was just real quick and easy to get out and showed the basics

but either way, yes, a knighting

[fast pagoda]

or are they from different versions, dunno

[coral path]

true, I found Sammelhandschrift Verschiedene [VerfasserIn], Schwaben, Ca.1460

Handschrift; 253 Bll.

(Cod. 3044), ofc

should clarify a bit

[fast pagoda]

specifically, as context was asked for, of King Sigismund and Heinrich von Ulm

[coral path]

look at this silly guy

[coral path]

source: https://viewer.onb.ac.at/10036A94

[fast pagoda]

yea I was reading the same one, but I only just quickly transcribed and put it into google translation. with more time I could get the wording more proper but luckily you got another one.

lemme see. I do know some words in MHG and ENHG but not enough to do it by myself fully, except for tiny passages like the first one I sent (the caption)

[coral path]

I'm not too worried dude 😄

[fast pagoda]

seems fine anyways, gets its meaning across well enough. altered it further to fix a few of the mistakes, went through the whole thing. it didn't change it's meaning too much, just verified the translation

[vocal vale]

looks like a flemish close helms

[weak halo]

Sick armet

[coral path]

these go unbelievably hard

Paris. National Library of France, Department of Manuscripts, Latin 9333. Ca.1474-1499

[lone osprey]

'Zu ritter schlagen' definitely = to knight

[lone osprey]

/that last part

[fleet junco]

apfelstudel

[coral path]

Carpentras. Inguimbertine Library, Ms. 410. Ca.1465-1492

didnt want to share a lot because its kinda fucked

Munich. Bayerische Staatsbibliothek, Cod. gall. 15 Ca.1460 - 1480

[tight umbra]

this guy looks nice

i want what hes wearing

[coral path]

Paris. Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal, 3692. Ca.1468

[weak halo]

Velvet is such a nice material

[tight umbra]

Medieval drip was on another level

[frozen quartz]

For real

[lethal adder]

if i won the lottery i wouldn't tell a soul but there would be signs

[bright token]

I like this knight’s double plackart cuirass

[tight umbra]

very cool

[runic holly]

i found Graham turner facebook page and are very tuff artworks

[coral path]

yeah he does some cool stuff

[coral path]

Balthasar von Weißpriach, Parish church in Villach, Carinthia. Ca.1484

[tight umbra]

it looks almost real

i love it

[cloud siren]

is that a bec de corbin ?

[silver heart]

pollaxe.

[cloud siren]

i thought it was a polehammer

[jovial estuary]

They seem to really like clobbering

[jovial estuary]

Lucerne hammer

[cloud siren]

ooh

[silver heart]

'polehammer' is a modern anachronistic term. historically it would have just been referred to as a 'pollaxe'. 'bec de corbin' only refers to a specific type of rear hook and even then to my understanding 'bec de faucon' was used more historically.

[cloud siren]

so its a lucerne or a pollaxe ?

[silver heart]

those only refer to a set of pollaxes discovered in lucerne in switzerland and aren't an actual form of polearm.

[silver heart]

pollaxe.

[cloud siren]

oh alr

[jovial estuary]

Gotcha, thanks 👍

[vocal vale]

if you want to be specific you can call it a bec de faucon because that usually implies the absence of an axehead

but yeah broadly it’s just a pollax

[terse bronze]

It doesn't

A axehead with a beak could still be referred to as bec de faucon (falcon's beak)

[cloud siren]

in the photo the weapon has a beak and a hammer

[terse bronze]

it's still a pollaxe

or could/was colloquially called falcon's beak

because it has a beak on the other side, and sometimes they just said fuck it and named it entirely due to this characteristic

[cloud siren]

so overall "pollaxe" is the whole generalization term ?

[terse bronze]

pollaxe is the name of that weapon

regardless of the configuration/style

[cloud siren]

thanks for clarifying 🫀

[vivid solar]

Welcome to the club

Turner's stuff is awesome

[runic holly]

I knew him from before indeed i searched artwork made by him for use it as wallpaper. But find his Facebook was a bless

[vivid solar]

If you want to see more he has a website with a lot of his art posted on it, though there's plenty book exclusives that aren't on there. Still a bunch on the website though

[cloud siren]

what do you guys call this ? , like the type of family tree or something like that

[terse bronze]

garbage

[vivid solar]

I find his facebook annoying for the art side of things

[terse bronze]

these type of charts are outdated and misleading

[cloud siren]

is there a better chart that i can find ?

[terse bronze]

not really

because the concept of "evolution" chart itself is flawed

[cloud siren]

cant get enough of these types of illustrations

[terse bronze]

they're interesting yeah

Viollet-le-Duc's stuff in particular

hellaaaaa outdated but so cool

purely on an aesthetic level

[runic holly]

Thanks sir

[terse bronze]

He's the guy behind this [cool] abomination of a misinterpretation

[cloud siren]

🔥🔥

[quaint shore]

What could this have originally been

[vocal vale]

eol postulates that the name bec de faucon’s usage also secretly means that it doesn’t have a cutting edge

[terse bronze]

Why?

[vocal vale]

i can’t remember exactly but it’s in the pdf

[terse bronze]

i'll have to reread it then

[next orchid]

Postulated*

Ask him again if he still holds that opinion. As for my part, I also think it refers to a hammer near-exclusively

In I think Olivier de la Marche, the falcon breaks are not considered axes

In a technical sense of the word

(they're still considered axes in the vernacular, since la Marche immediately calls them axes after lol)

[vocal vale]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-flight-reacts-ftc-gif-10344871754903558430

[cloud siren]

pretty cool manuscripts i got from Talhoffer Fechtbuch c.1459 (MS Thott.290.2º) source:https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Talhoffer_Fechtbuch_(MS_Thott.290.2º)

on top of that this manuscript has instructions on different types of weapons fencing

[coral path]

yeah its a very good one

all of his stuff was great lmao

[vocal vale]

oh hey it’s bellifortis

..for some reason..

never seen this one thanks

[toxic laurel]

Question, is the writing legible? I'd assume so but I can't read shit of it and I've never seen it done.

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-yapping-i-stand-at-the-end-of-my-days-i-have-sinned-at-the-end-of-my-days-speed-talking-gif-17714085846938483931

[fast pagoda]

https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Konrad_Kyeser

there

transcribed + translated

[toxic laurel]

thanks a lot

wonder how they do it

[fast pagoda]

for the transcription, it's mostly just reading a lot of the same script and recognizing shapes. sometimes a writer will do it differently though, and you'll have to have some knowledge of the language itself to see how they did the letters in a word you recognize.

translation is the harder part because the spelling is never consistent, and some words don't exist in the modern language. then you have to do lots of guessing and reconstruction work. luckily, it's already mostly been done by earlier and better linguists (like the Grimms) and put into dictionaries

[toxic laurel]

the translation being difficult i assume is sorta natural because the german is from the fifteenth century?

[fast pagoda]

yea

[lone topaz]

has anyone got a video of someone putting on an arm harness with plate voiders?

[quaint shore]

i think they mean putting it on themself not putting it together

[coral path]

yeah

I dont atm

that was the closest I got

[fleet junco]

theres the 16th century one

they just put it on like a sleeve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgd9ZZfUn1o

[lone topaz]

thanks

[fleet junco]

faku

[lucid briar]

Here's a video of mine. My pair is based on an extant example.

The voiders themselves are riveted directly to the arm harness.

[cloud siren]

does anyone have a photo of a really cool helmet , like absolute majestic design and everything

i gotta do some practice

[quaint shore]

I sentence you to 5 hours of a buhurt guy saying how his sport is the best depiction of medieval combat

[cloud siren]

both of these are the best of the best , thanks alot 🔥

but i might need more than 2 🫀

[unkempt rampart]

Dude I hate buhurt guys so much 😭

[quaint shore]

I have some stuff in dms if u want

[cloud siren]

sure or you can send a link here of the helmets if you can , anything will do

[white fulcrum]

boob hurt

[cloud siren]

close enough eh?

[vocal vale]

good shit twinneus and ferb

[cloud siren]

Ja 🫀

i yearn for more intricate helmets and decorations . Keep em coming 🤑

[coral path]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1col88JxMWY&t=7s

[fleet junco]

is that english

[coral path]

italian flemish frnach

western european (lmao)

italianate/french

flemish

[coral path]

not english

me

[robust tendon]

medieval militant on IG

[cloud siren]

you guys got like just helmets , preferably side profiles or any angles

[fleet junco]

do this one

[bright token]

I have this

Also check out Francois L’Archeveque on face book he makes fantastic sallet and take photo of them from many angle

Example

[tight umbra]

I love these kinds of sallets

The colors are beautiful

[bright token]

Me too, pretty sure sallet with short tail was popular in place like France or Burgundy

[thorny otter]

This one is mine from Elthien

[cloud siren]

love em all especially the velvet colored sallet 🔥🫀

[tight umbra]

i ❤️ short tail sallets

[sterile crane]

Will we have other types of armets on the game?
Also an armet Ca 1450-60 with an interesting visor shape

[tight umbra]

i believe we will

[tight umbra]

this is the one we have ingame rn

[quaint shore]

I’d post buhurt stuff as a joke but i think even on April first i’d get stoned

Maybe fat tony will rise from the depths of hell

[tight umbra]

awh missed my chance to post visored barbute and ask if its in game period for april fools

[fleet junco]

shpuldve posted that ome photoshopped version

[tight umbra]

which one

[muted ivy]

Awesome. That a Maks Izbakov?

[bright token]

I think so

Pretty sure he made that sallet

[bright token]

God i love this style so much

[muted ivy]

I have a few.

All repros but they’re ones i own or have owned/sold through the business.

[vocal vale]

very awesome

[coral path]

yes.

*izobov

[coral path]

really wish this fit the game

[coral path]

do Mr. Stark's sallet fr

(also made by izobov)

[cloud siren]

taking this one 🔥🔥

[coral path]

or

[muted ivy]

It’s 1490. When is the game set? 1470s?

[coral path]

1450-1470

its dated c.1490-1510 Leeds, inv no. AL.41.

[silver heart]

@terse bronze do you still have those pdf’s regarding the ordinances and equipment of french knights, footmen, and the franc-archers?

[coral path]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1358114139540557914/1358114423319036316/Equipment_of_Franc_Archers.pdf?ex=69cfe91f&is=69ce979f&hm=5bb3a02ec38933710e83a610c184510cbb3146886dfe0f240e704fdcac426ec0&

theres a couple of em so idk which one

[muted ivy]

It is, but I suspect it’s the earlier end of that spectrum.

[glass thunder]

game is set in 1475 according to the intro cutscene

[muted ivy]

Fair enough. Though some of the kit is definitely 1480s. More than happy to turn a blind eye.

[muted ivy]

Yeah, love that one. Got one in the works to hopefully release in the summer.

[coral path]

[muted ivy]

Oh, just realised it’s completely different. It’s one of those pointy-nosed French ones (also excellent).

[vivid solar]

those eyeslits seem really big

[coral path]

doesn't really look like it

[coral path]

bird visor

lmao

[coral path]

I dont get it

hold on

its based off of Palace of Vila Viçosa in Portugal

[coral path]

could def be thinner ofc but its basically a centimeter off

[coral path]

Sir John Newton, Church of St John the Evangelist, Yatton, Somerset, England Ca.1440

[sterile crane]

That looks like it would be much easier to get in

[terse bronze]

I spilled all my pollaxes

[candid rapids]

i like how all of them are slightly different

[cloud siren]

anyone got some pig faced bascinets ?

like decorated ones

[void stream]

achoo

oops

sorry

my bad

[cloud siren]

kinda fucked up the chin since i gave him a big one 🫀 , but it still worked out

[coral path]

Awesome!

[latent drift]

idk if this is accurate but do u guys know what regions style he is wearing

same w this one

[thorny otter]

this is a bit of misinterpreted burgundian. consider that the pic is 25 years old and the understanding of the material culture has moved quite a bit

[thorny otter]

italy

[fresh turtle]

arquebus

[light nova]

https://tenor.com/view/old-grandma-gif-5132574

[muted ivy]

That’s Jeff Wesson in Italian clothes.

[muted ivy]

And that’s turbo Italian.

[cloud siren]

bruh for a second i thought it was Bohemian 🫀

[vocal vale]

i figured the short hat and the long maheutres it was italian

[ebon nimbus]

Got my mits on this old prayer book from the 1400s!!! Its got a leather cover and is missing a spine! Y’all think I should look for anything specifically?

[vocal vale]

How The Fuh Did You Get Your Mits On That

[ebon nimbus]

Archives :3

Some attempts at translations

[ebon nimbus]

Here’s a few more pages as well in no particular order

[terse bronze]

damn old ass hebrew tome

probably has some spells in it...

[ebon nimbus]

Yuhh it’s an old prayer book !! :D

i need some time and/or help to translate it properlyy