references♥_1450-1470

[terse bronze]

it's from around 1477

https://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc10057z

[vocal vale]

lmao

[lethal adder]

would maille like that be worse for areas that require more mobility? like i can see that geometry being the best for the neck and as groin protection but not so much in the armpits or inner elbow. not trying to state that as fact btw im just curious apologies if im just ignorant lmao

speaking of maille groin protection i saw something interesting a while back that was essentially a strip of maille with aiglets that was fastened at the belt over the groin and through the legs and attached on the other side almost like a diaper or thong lol but i cant remember the name for it or if it even existed

[terse bronze]

Maille braies

[lethal adder]

ahhh thank you

[terse bronze]

they're essentially the same thign as a maille skirt (faulds) but more tight fitting
And because they are made out of maille (steel) and resembles braies, they were called steel braies

[lethal adder]

need me a pair of those to keep these damn harlots out amirite or am i friggin right

[terse bronze]

at least in french speaking sources

[prisma raven]

I don't know, I haven't read anything about it, to be honest.

I suppose it's as you said, a regular brig but with an outer layer that in all the examples seems to be a rich brocade fabric

[dim mauve]

I'm in the process of making voiders out of it so we'll see, I know it was done with standards and aparently it was done with voiders but as I said it's kinda stiff in one direction. Very much depends on the relative thickness of the rings tho

[sullen charm]

@prisma raven Do you know which centuries the cervelliere was prominent or occasional in Iberia?

[prisma raven]

Well, in the 13th century they were used extensively in the form of uncovered or covered/painted cervelleras by knights/men-at-arms and "peones/peons" (infantry), and from the beginning of the 14th century the painted or covered forms disappeared and war hats and helms became more prominent among men-at-arms/knights. Then throughout the 14th and 15th centuries their use was relegated to crossbowmen and infantry

[lethal adder]

since the term "man-at-arms" refers to both non noble professional soldiers as well as knights is there a specific term used to denote the non noble soldiers specifically? sorry if this is a dumb question lol

[terse bronze]

In french, "archer" was kind of the term for footmen

Or piéton, gens de pieds (iicr) ect

Man-at-arms (gendarme) vastly refered to mounted armored dudes, knights are men at arms but not all men at arms were knights

[terse bronze]

As well as "specializations" example "vougier/voulgier" is an "archer" that carries a voulge

[lethal adder]

interesting, ive heard the terms "servien" and "serjeant" thrown around a bit when referring to foot soldiers as well but idk how accurate that is

[terse bronze]

Sergeants are a bit different

For what I can recall it's not directly tied to the martial life

Or at least at first

[lethal adder]

i see

[terse bronze]

Then for light cavalry, again in french because I'm mostly familiar with french sources, they were called coustillier

[lethal adder]

a bit of a follow up question, since there was no formal standardized ranking structure for medieval troops were all individual groups within an army headed solely by nobility or is it known if low born professional troops would be appointed as leaders for groups as well?

[vivid drum]

iirc seriven means something along the lines of "one who serves" which could be martial or civil service

[terse bronze]

That's kinda where captains and sergeants come into play I believe

I must admit I'm really not that familiar with the structural aspects

[lethal adder]

yea im trying to learn more about doctrine and structure myself and i cant really find much on it besides speculation

[terse bronze]

And there kinda was formal standardization for some armies, like France and burgundy were quite precursors in "uniformization" of the troops and organization. From
"pikemen should wear this and that" to "A company is lead into battle by a conductor, himself leading X men at arms, under which serve [...]"

[vivid drum]

At the end of the middle ages and during the early modern period armies became much more structured

[terse bronze]

A very knowledgeable guy named Eol made a comprehensive image about how a burgundian army marches into battle, I'm cooking rn so I can't send it but I'll try to remember tomorrow/latee

[lethal adder]

that would be cool, thank you!

[terse bronze]

If you see me online tomorrow and I forgot to tag you, please tag and remind me

[lethal adder]

i will try to remember to do so, thank you again for the info its always appreciated.

[vocal vale]

@lethal adder

gotchu boss

[terse bronze]

Yeah that's the one

[lethal adder]

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-friends-mr-boss-yelling-spaghetti-gif-24505286

[vocal vale]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-what-i-woulda-did-thats-the-technique-tiktok-hitman-yeah-gif-11959249467197783308

[latent drift]

is there a doc this is from if so i would like it

nevermind im dumb

just had to look for like 2 seconds

[lethal adder]

i think i might be dumb too bc i cant find a doc...........

[latent drift]

i thought i did

https://tenor.com/view/shiseidored-pou-gif-13221666817185724082

[silver grotto]

Are there any sources for orles/wreaths of flowers on a helmet? I've seen it done by a couple of people and I think it looks neat

[lone osprey]

certainly in tournament contexts
||reasons include borderline pagan symbolism and honoring love interests||

[terse bronze]

Is not from a doc, it's just a freelance thing Eol did while going through the ordnnances

He did many more things like that too, like a megathread on Twitter about french men at arms and sources/terminology of arms and armors

[verbal bramble]

Culveriners?

[terse bronze]

Guns

[lethal adder]

ah gotcha

[lethal adder]

yea i looked at their account and theres a ton of cool stuff

this one in particular was my favorite piece he has up

this ones also really good

[dim mauve]

Small collection of some rather unorthodox looking combatents, some of which adorn rather strange embellishments.

[dim mauve]

Sorry, just posted irrelevant photos cus I thought I was looking at a group chat.

[vocal vale]

first dude just wearing a stoat

[sullen charm]

I think I'm officially in love with medieval Iberia because of @prisma raven . What's the little waistcoat in the Remensa piece technically called? And what's the rest of the garments?

• #art-🎨 message

[copper lynx]

really cool look

[coral path]

I think this is correct time period

[vocal vale]

attaching a lance rest

i’ve not seen those before

only the late 14th stuff like the matsch harnesses

thanks

love the german empanada spaulders

[coral path]

Real

[vocal vale]

i thought that painting was before 1450

[coral path]

Where is this from?

[vocal vale]

think it’s from an effigy if memory serves

[unkempt rampart]

Did they ever develop a sort of plate or mail protection for the back of the head for sallets? From playing the game and observing armors the vulnerable area in the back of the helmet seems pretty obvious

[terse bronze]

what do you mean

[unkempt rampart]

This

I get most of my longsword kills in game through that gap so I was wondering if anything got made to protect that area eventually

[terse bronze]

There should be a maille gorget protecting the nape

example on a plate and maille gorget

but if that's not enough..

[paper yew]

.

[slate mulch]

holy shit soldier tf2

[weak halo]

Later variants

[warm barn]

bro hasn't had his body cam on since the battle of Hastings

[prisma raven]

The green one worn by the remensa is a jack, made of different layers of fabric, the brown one is a jack made of cowhide or oxhide. Underneath the jack, he wears a short "gonella," a type of coat worn by peasants and shepherds at that time instead of a doublet. He also wears a pair of hose rolled up below the knees with esparto grass sandals.
Beside him is a leather cap reinforced with a couple of metal strips; a woolen hat with a white cross badge; two knives; a white armband; and the aforementioned cowhide or oxhide jack.

The white cross on the jacks, pavise, and the hat, as well as the white armband, are the distinguishing marks of the Remensas.

«…the said remences, who wore the sign of the white cross on their chest and the white armband, were received in the city…»
Dietary of the Generalitat, year 1464, July; ed. IEC, vol. II, p. 312)

«…to the chiefs and men of the remences who wear the white cross on their chest and a sash or armband of white cloth on their left arm…»
ACA, Cancelleria, reg. 2468, f. 87r-88v (1466)

«…that everyone who will wear a white cross on their chest and a white armband on their left arm be considered a remensa of the lord king…»
ACA, Cancelleria, reg. 2651, f. 44v (1465)

[sullen charm]

Hmm I really like the look of the rolled hose. Any input on that?

[terse bronze]

what do you mean ?

[sullen charm]

I'm commenting on Camacurt's art featuring a fifteenth century combatant with rolled hosen: #art-🎨 message

I vaguely remember seeing it in another Iberian illustration I believe

[terse bronze]

oh that

[sullen charm]

I wondered if there was any more history on it

[terse bronze]

i don't believe it's that deep, when hot -> roll them down

[sullen charm]

Thanks for providing additional illustrations.

[terse bronze]

I think they're also mentioned in jehan froissart's chronicles about the batle of azincourt

[prisma raven]

Yes, it's just a common practice throughout Western Europe

the sources I used for the drawing

@sullen charm

[prisma raven]

covered breastplates are awesome

[weak halo]

It would definitely be a prettier picture with a placard

[terse bronze]

Yeah

[weak halo]

Ahhh hell yeah

[coral path]

Was this channel changed to 1470 and not 1480?

[void stream]

famaleonis???

[thorny otter]

Famaleonis is the organiser of the event (Torneoimarmatura), guy in the pic is Nicolas Philipe Baptiste

[void stream]

So I'm asking if it's famaleonis because I saw the tabard there.

[coral path]

If the great burgundian chronicle was written in ca. 1480 it's a little late for it to be a reference for half sword?

[sullen charm]

It used to be 1480

i think

i've seen older mentions that reference the time frame like 1450-1480

but it's been the current timeframe 1450-1470 for awhile

[sullen charm]

true but I'm not a late enough reference :3

Add me to the game

[coral path]

Yeah burgundian armor would be sick

[waxen epoch]

why no houndskull 🙁

[haughty creek]

Out of period, unfortunately

[waxen epoch]

dang but its such a cool helmet lmao

[waxen epoch]

do you think they will add any klappvisor helm or is that also out of period?

[unkempt rampart]

Out of period

[haughty creek]

Every type of Bascinet (sans the great Bascinet I believe, but don’t quote me on that) is out of period

[waxen epoch]

dang

[waxen epoch]

wiki syas it was used after the years 1450 but with limited use

[haughty creek]

Wikipedia is not a good source for armor generally

[waxen epoch]

what sources do you typicaly reccomend

[coral path]

I really like Graham Turner's books.

Ian heath's stuff is cool to look at

there's a lot of armories out there that do really good reproductions of arms and armor historically too.

[clever bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/we-had-to-make-some-changes-ryan-bailey-aggro-smite-changes-had-to-be-made-gif-18576244

[coral path]

I really like Radoslaus's work as well and his armory.

[lucid briar]

I 100% recommend him, he made me a pair of gauntlets and arms and they are amazing!

[bright token]

Statue of st george i saved from facebook group

I like the big left couter and the fluting on the plackart and tassets

[slate mulch]

i thought his stuff blew ass

[terse bronze]

You're thinking about Angus McBride

His historical drawings are pretty .. subpar

but his LotR / Dark Fantasy ones are peak

[solid bronze]

They're out of period, but wouldnt some still be lying around and usable?

[unkempt rampart]

Pretty sure not

[solid bronze]

Why not?

[terse bronze]

let's not open this door because it's gonna be unending

"oh but if a bascinet is in the game SURELY we can add a 1330s coat of plate too, right?" and so on, and so on

[solid bronze]

I get that, but the bascinet only would've been a few decades old, not a few centuries

[terse bronze]

Still

[solid bronze]

Also i know a lot of them were melted down for other uses but im sure a many still survived

[terse bronze]

I firmly believe that, even if you HYPOTHETICALLY could RARELY see bascinets being used in the year 1450 it just doesn't really fit the "late 14thc" vibe the game is going for

because yeah there's sources,very rare ones

but i really, really don't think it would be good to have it

let's stick to stuff that fits the vibe and are still accurate

(also the sort of bascinet that would survive being in use during the game's timeframe wouldnt be hounskull and other knightly bascinets anyway)

[prisma raven]

(Soldiers) Altarpiece dedicated to Saint Blaise by the Master of Riglos (active between 1435 and 1460 in Aragon). Made circa 1450 – 1460.

[worldly night]

i thought they closed this

[verbal bramble]

Why is the armor depicted as red? Was it originally painted gold but it oxidized with time? Or was it painted red from the start for some other reason?

[worldly night]

they had no more blue paint

[unkempt rampart]

Wdym

[vocal vale]

they would’ve been out of style for 30-50 years at this point in time

which is like two generations removed at that point

[lethal adder]

yea some of his stuff is very lacking as far as accuracy goes but i cant deny a lot of his work is very cool and tells a good story through an image if nothing else.

a lot of my early interest in medieval history is thanks to McBride so he holds a special place in me heart.

[vocal vale]

4 goes hard

[lethal adder]

3 and 9 are my personal favorites

[vivid solar]

Either this is the pinnacle or ragebait or...

[slate mulch]

i said i thought

[vivid solar]

Do you not know his art?

[sullen charm]

I completely oppose adding bascinets for this reason

[weak halo]

Here's something strange I found today, kastenbrust with a klappvisor

[unkempt rampart]

with a frogmouth no less

[unkempt rampart]

Wait a sec

Man at arms in number 9

Same guy

[sullen charm]

He probably assumed it was closed because text channels got moved around without warning recently.

[sullen charm]

I like four and nine. Seeing those Hussites and war wagons are always a pleasure.

[lethal adder]

o wow! thats really cool actually

JUPONS CONFIRMED FOR HALF SWORD!!!!1!1!1!1

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-friends-mr-boss-yelling-spaghetti-gif-24505286

[vocal vale]

klappvisors stick around in german speaking areas for quite some time

[weak halo]

Even well into the 1400s?

[vocal vale]

up to around 1415 or 1420

with the supplanting of bascinets

[weak halo]

Didn't they have a more onion-like shape?

That one really looks straight from the 1300s

[vocal vale]

many

[weak halo]

It sucks that they didn't include the visor on the funeral effigy

[solid bronze]

I know that too, but my point was those helmets(or just older gear in general) could've been used to cover for lower class soldiers who might need it.

Having old gear in general for the lower tiers ingame would cool tbh.

[terse bronze]

id rather have period appropriate lower quality

[quaint shore]

Oh god how many times is the bascinet being used for lower tiers going to be brought up

[lethal adder]

as long as "grandpa's armor and sword" keeps getting thrown around

[quaint shore]

Fuuuuck

[vocal vale]

and my point is that that’s wrong

lower class soldiers could still afford “modern” gear, just less

[sullen charm]

For real

[lone osprey]

I'm sure that @next orchid would be able to comment on whether anything like this appears in primary sources.

Personally the only substantial evidence I have seen for around the Half Sword's timeframe in a documentary source for the use of old gear is Christoph Retsch's identification of a regular bascinet in the Wolfegger Hausbuch (page 159 of Sprechendes Metall?) just ran through google translate so some of its probably a bit garbled but the most important points are retained just fine:

Between three rows of wagons (the outer row for the wagon fort—important wagons with cannons behind movable wooden screens; the inner row possibly for weighing provisions) march six groups of foot soldiers, two of which are armed with polearms and four with ,Stangenbüchsen‘ and crossbows. In the third group of the upper row is a foot soldier with a ,Stangenbüchse‘, wearing a bascinet with an attached ring-shaped gorget (Figs. V.23a and b). A twisted hinge for attaching a visor is possibly depicted on the side, so that, for example, a ,Hundsgugelvisier‘ or [rather] the visor of an English helmet/pointed helmet could be attached. The soldier is therefore wearing a helmet that was several decades old at the time, probably at least 40 years old, possibly more than twice as old. Presumably, he was meant to represent a marksman with limited means, as he is wearing not only an outdated helmet but also trousers that are torn at the knees.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Hausbuch_Wolfegg_51v_52r1_Heerzug.jpg

but I am also on the side that I would prefer only things that were actually being produced in HS's set timeframe to be in the game because this seems like a rare exception

also this is even going with Retsch's identification. there's always the possibility the artist was approximating another type of helmet with different mail head protection and not actually a bascinet. I agree with him it does seem to resemble one though, but Retsch also ignores the resemblance of the adjacent (?) sallet with a rondel on the side worn over a mail collar of the foremost green gunner. the 'bascinet' could easily be a botched version of the same combination.

[lone osprey]

speaking of he liked to depict wreathes at least made of leaves in a Mars Planetenkinder, scenes of hunting, and a joust.

[sullen charm]

What are these staffs topped with small rings?

[weak halo]

Handgonnes maybe?

That's the vibe they give me with the two colors and the top half looking like a pipe

[lone osprey]

what Retsch calls Stangenbüchsen (also just called büchsen) so the guns

[next orchid]

There's also the issue that it doesn't have a peak

So it's either a new bascinet that doesn't have a peak (that just happens to look like a sallet) (unlikely), or it's an old bascinet that the artist messed up (even more unlikely, since the pointiness of a helmet was an artistic device for an older period because of bascinets)

But primary sources do describe older helmets being worn

And by older I mean a previous generation's. They were also stored in arsenals for use

But they're pretty much not that common (armor degrades quickly without maintenance), and would mostly exclude the soldiers (and definitely the men at arms)

I might post some sources later if I can remember them

[weak halo]

To me it looks a lot like a sallet with rondels

[lone osprey]

yeah very true

[lone osprey]

another fella he basically ignored supports this

[vocal vale]

the only thing that comes to mind that i have read are the inventories of tower armouries and how they had a bunch of greathelms that basically just got ignored for like 30 years and then disappeared

[sterile crane]

Turned into nails

Magic

[lone osprey]

do you consider 'peckelhewbel' to = beckenhaube and thus bascinet? EHNG online dictionary says beckelhaube = beckenhaube which is why I ask. one of their sources is this 1478 inventory of a castle: https://archive.org/details/mittelalterlich00zinggoog/page/n145/mode/2up

lists 'i peckelhewbel' [80 (s. 13f.)]

but the term seems to have a super general meaning getting used in the 16th century where it could not plausibly be referring to bascinets. retsch might actually have some useful commentary on the term i need to come back to that later

[next orchid]

i wouldnt know. wiki says becken should be basin. anyhow, if pickelhewbel = beckenhaube, then the "pickel" might be the point of the skull on an iron hat (like a cabasset), or referring to the beak of an armet.

there are also some burgonets that have a point

but idk german, never seen the term ever cuz i never look at german things. but if its being used in the 16th century, either the meaning corrupted over time, or it simply never referred solely to bascinets

and if becken = basin, then it might be referring to a bowl shape idk

[lone osprey]

🤔 that would make a lot of sense

[snow nova]

what a drip

[snow nova]

it’s 1490-1500 I think, but for me earlier version is cool

[vocal vale]

it’s definitely not

it’s 1435

[snow nova]

oh

Look like 16 century armor

[terse bronze]

Not really tbh

I can see the art style

But the armor is very first half of the 15thc

[latent drift]

when did kastenbrust fall out of fashion?

[weak halo]

Around 1420-30 iirc

[latent drift]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-gif-21922016

[terse bronze]

there's sources of kastenbursts into the 1470s

[weak halo]

Sounds strange

On works of art?

[terse bronze]

yes

[weak halo]

I looked up on Wikipedia, are you talking about the Gierslev Sogn frescoes?

[weak halo]

I got it wrong, apparently it fell out of fashion around 1450

[terse bronze]

There's more than one sources with kastens

post 1440 i mean

[coral path]

New Maks Izobov Helmet

Hegewald Armoury is so goated

[weak halo]

Been following progress on that one for a while, it looks great

It would look awesome with a golden bellows visor

[coral path]

do you know the reference of it?

[weak halo]

No, but I assume there are no visors sadly

[coral path]

me either but im assuming a tapestry or smth

[weak halo]

Here's one with a visor

Sexy red velvet

[coral path]

yeah that one is siiiiick

[weak halo]

And of course this one, the velvet covered armet

[coral path]

this is just straight talent

[outer fiber]

Does somebody do smithing here himself?

[sullen charm]

YOOOOOOOOO, NOW WE'RE TALKING

Let me shake your hand right now

I'm ingame

I have this helmet in Roblox lol. It was like ~80 tix back then

[void stream]

Damn bro

A little late to reply.

[sullen charm]

Oh yeah I wasn't sure why my chat went up all the way

Nvm, I just realized it's because the earlier sallet post was from that time

[wild heath]

i want to be able to delicately cut off a maidens clothes

can we make that possible half sword games?

[stiff mountain]

is this armor tuff in the middle ages

[sullen charm]

Is it typical to refer to skullcaps like rope helmets as cervellieres? I've seen the term applied to that in several images

[void stream]

Too late

[glad apex]

ik

felt like putting it in here tho

[void stream]

Then post on 1470 - 1600 topic

[weak halo]

I think that cervelliere is just the french name for skullcaps

[sullen charm]

Ohhh

Never knew that

[snow nova]

yeah

we need it

[void stream]

Too early for the game

[snow nova]

under armor

[void stream]

still too early for the game

[snow nova]

not like this

[snow nova]

its references

[void stream]

early reference

[snow nova]

ok nevermind

[latent drift]

they said no women

sorry abraham lincoln

[terse bronze]

they didn't wear that as underarmor in the 15th century

[cold monolith]

thats the drippiest thing i've ever seen

[lean pendant]

Pavol felvidek

[sullen charm]

I love this type of arming with mostly garments with the helmet and occasional supplementary plate

[latent drift]

https://tenor.com/view/minions-gif-25854132

[snow nova]

🤣

[sullen charm]

I hope I'll be able to chop the wood shafts of polearmed enemies

[prisma raven]

Santa Maria Cathedral, Sigüenza, Guadalajara, Spain
Unknown Retablo
Approx late C15th

[quaint shore]

No No No Is he Back Dont tell me

[terse bronze]

no way its facu

[quaint shore]

Is Facu a different person from the Ragebaiter

John Aislop

[terse bronze]

yeah

[quaint shore]

Oh thank god

[silver heart]

i always enjoy seeing the sleeves of mail worn over the rerebraces.

[terse bronze]

textile doe..

[coral path]

St Bavo Ca. 1460 North Netherlands

[river cedar]

sir seymour mordhau

[coarse edge]

Peak refrence

[cursive shale]

pls online !!!!!!!!!!!!!!❤️

[sullen charm]

Funny how something as basic as a jester is more plausible than the freaking bascinet that gets suggested so frequently

[verbal bramble]

Speaking of, how did jesters and fools (assuming those aren't two terms for the exact same profession) dress in this time frame? I assume there would be special clothes for them in this time frame as opposed to 1490-1500, the 14th Century, or what have you

[coral path]

No placard breastplate

[fast pagoda]

scribe?

[wild heath]

who said anything about women? maiden is an inclusive term, its 2025 remember??????? maybe i was speaking of a more woke type of maiden... a maiden with a third leg perhaps

[fleet junco]

what does this mean

[robust tendon]

mid 15th c leg harness by rogue armory

[weak halo]

Wonder what happened to the placard

[river cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-legs-gif-10811579

god dammit

[latent drift]

ah i see my mistake maybe

[terse bronze]

It should have a placard tho

Placard and breastplates are independant pieces that are combined to form a cuirass

You can clearly see that this breastplate was meant to be used with a placard, and was so. They probably just removed the placard to take inventory photos of the bp objects, or the matching placard was lost

[cold atlas]

oh? writers?

something's cooking up very soon

[fleet junco]

case hardened weapons?

[foggy warren]

1400...the Blunderbus era, right?

Gunpowder, fire and cannons

[fleet junco]

blunderbus is like 1800s

handcannons or arquebusses

is 15th century

[robust tendon]

well you do have all of those

early forms of them at least

[coral path]

Yeah I just wanted to share the stand alone piece that's used to form a cuirass

[sullen charm]

Blunderbuss is early modern

[void stream]

Where is my schreiber role

1472, Germany, Dresden, Mscr.Dresd.M.201

[fiery gorge]

Why is he eating a woman

[weak halo]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1HaWb6B51D/

I don't usually post Facebook links but this video is incredibly sexy (enclosed sallet neck articulation)

It sucks there's no video player for links like twitter :/

[prisma raven]

I love spiral fluting on vambraces

[robust tendon]

i love spiral fluting in general

[void stream]

Alexander brigandine, based on the late 15c tapestry portraying the pursuits of Alexander the Great.

[terse bronze]

george jolliot my beloved

[prisma raven]

the goat

[void stream]

His work is absolutely splendid.

[coral path]

Fat Tony is typing

[magic sand]

New Knight armor from Game of Thrones 🔥 🔥 🔥 Deves take notes this is the stuff we want to see

[coral path]

Oh jesus..

Is there a reason the cursor in the game is from 1500?

[weak halo]

Funny little hats

[prisma raven]

cool helmets

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Chroniques_de_Froissart_(15e_eeuw)_-_Slag_op_het_Beverhoutsveld.png

[prisma raven]

1 - 1440-1450, Abbazia di Santa Maria a Cerrate, Lecce.
2- Italian man-at-arms circa 1440. @/theghosthero

[coral path]

Franco-Burgundian sallet

[weak halo]

Cool Kastenbrust stuff

[prisma raven]

Medals of Alfons V d'Aragó and René d'Anjou (mid 15th C)

[coral path]

This weak point on an armet lmao

[prisma raven]

that is a big rondel lol

[weak halo]

Bigger rondel = more drip

[crude goblet]

Why does this look like Mr bean

[coral path]

Even rondel mittens

[prisma raven]

nice german jack

[weak halo]

It is

[crude goblet]

What's it from...

Black adder...?

[weak halo]

Probably one of his many shows

[crude goblet]

Too many 😭

[weak halo]

No, I think it's from a modern setting where he dresses in an armor, look at the woman's hand

[coral path]

Articulated gorgets

[weak halo]

That hinged breastplate is weird

[crude goblet]

Fair those blankets in the background don't scream old english

[coral path]

Yeah not to sure about it.

Kinda cool though

[weak halo]

Maybe decorations

[crude goblet]

Why are there handles on it

[weak halo]

I looked it up, it's from a Johnny English movie

[crude goblet]

What is he doing to need that suit 😭

[weak halo]

No idea, it's not great but sadly still better than 90% movies/series armors

[coral path]

This dude

[vivid solar]

Mood

[vivid solar]

The bar is in hell

[void stream]

fat tony strikes again

[weak halo]

Really cool fleur de lis décorations

Spiked kneecops and couters too

I still think there should be a game mode where Willie has to kill a dragon

-# Hearing him scream while the dragons collides and ragdolls with him

[prisma raven]

("Lüwersberg Passion")
Master of the Lüwersberg Passion (active in Cologne, c. 1460-1490), c. 1464-1466

[vivid solar]

Plackart attached to a brig?

[prisma raven]

Probably just a coat worn under the placard and tonelet or a covered breastplate

[weak halo]

Covered breastplate

[weak halo]

Like this

[vivid solar]

Ah i see

[weak halo]

And this

[verbal bramble]

Others have already stated it, but yeah that's probably the upper portion of a cuirass, covered with fabric

[prisma raven]

"St. Thomas Altarpiece," ca. 1495-1500
Master of the St. Bartholomew Altarpiece, active in the Netherlands, ca. 1475-1510

[weak halo]

I really like his buckle

[prisma raven]

Looks more like a coat imo

[verbal bramble]

Oh? How come?

[weak halo]

I'd say coat on the right, covered on the left

[prisma raven]

You can see the coat's skirt under the tonelet

[verbal bramble]

Hmm... I thought that it was a decorative element added to the tonelet, but the coat would make more sense

How is the strap of the upper cuirass attached to the plackart, then? Is a slit or hole cut open on the coat for the strap?

[prisma raven]

Yeah

[verbal bramble]

Oh yeah- I see it on the right picture

[weak halo]

So stuff like these are all coats?

[prisma raven]

Yeah

The maille fauld is proabaly worn on top of the coat or under, or its directly attached to the tonelet

[weak halo]

That's pretty cool

[verbal bramble]

Seems to be the case: You can see the hem of the coat come from the tonelet, and no rivets holding the fabric to the cuirass

[prisma raven]

One example of a maille fauld attached to the tonelet

[weak halo]

Yeah, or sometimes they'd just hold it up with a belt or laces wouldn't they?

[prisma raven]

Yes

[verbal bramble]

Oh- That's really cool! How does the maille stay in place? Are the rings riveted to the tonelet?

[prisma raven]

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/436516

Looks like they are laced or sewn

[verbal bramble]

Hmm... I see

That definetly looks like stitches, if I were to hazard a guess

I have stitched leather together by hand, and it looks kind of similar to the paintings. I know stitching leather to leather and stitching maille to metal is very different, but perhaps I am onto something?

[terse bronze]

Ott.lat.1417,f.20r

[slate mulch]

is the blade supposed to be so lopsided or

oh and hi kev

[terse bronze]

the game is 1450-1470s not 1500

[terse bronze]

hi

[terse bronze]

Yes

it's a style of daggers called cinquadea

or ig short sword whatever

[slate mulch]

oh ik just yknow

bit weird to have an uneven blade

[vocal vale]

anyone have that video of that dude wearing his pauldrons and raising his arms repeatedly to show the articulation

[coral path]

No, the dagger is from 1500. Im curious why it is the cursor in the first place in half sword

[terse bronze]

Oh wait, what did you mean by cursor

[coral path]

the cursor in half sword is the dagger that is from 1500

[terse bronze]

I think cinquadeas were in use in the 70s

like started then

[coral path]

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22373 Is it true that this wasn't made in 1500?

[terse bronze]

this one yes

but yknow

they can still exist before

that's why i said "i think cinquadeas were in use in the 70s"

[coral path]

yeah, do you mind showing me some from the time period?

[terse bronze]

Looking for some

[coral path]

I mean 1450-1470

[terse bronze]

I found this drawing showing a tracing of a 1480s crucifixion art

but that's still past 70s

Well I saw that piece being dated 90s too so

[coral path]

heres one from 1470. https://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMP/eMuseumPlus?service=ExternalInterface&module=collection&objectId=61237&viewType=detailView

took a little bit

[terse bronze]

that's the one i was looking for

I knew I saw one from the 70s

[coral path]

I cant find one thats from earlier

[terse bronze]

I don't recall seeing one earlier than that either

[bright token]

beautiful German gauntlet made by anderzblacksmith

I have question about gauntlets, there are many gauntlets both in museum and modern reproduction that I've seen where the area circle in red don't have armour piece like the one I circle in blue, is there a practical reason or is it simply fashion taste?

[terse bronze]

both

[bright token]

Thank you KevlarOnion

[terse bronze]

You're welcome Seigneur Pingouin

[terse bronze]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1227412021243281509/1362584406136590596/An-ymiHPgep77ImBB6iQWdQfqR7RWILWMrK8cmy1oYQmjPBN_VIBTtc3qGSZeOoowlbJPxWC0koOk0z9xdbV2b98.mp4?ex=6934c91e&is=6933779e&hm=ff06b09f58677cddf8104cad817fae00c93a5fc052b4686fe71b2ac0c57d58da& the?

[lone osprey]

this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pdcdmJCg3c

[terse bronze]

Oh damn real

also banger music

https://youtu.be/nQba4J0oLM0

[vocal vale]

no it’s a different one from behind focused on just the pauldrons

i thought it was posted here but i couldn’t find it

[coral path]

Does maks izobov have a website besides his facebook?

[terse bronze]

<@&1080390104562016306>

[steep yoke]

thank you citizen

[thorny otter]

Instagram and YouTube channel

[coral path]

yeah but no website?

I have yet to find it

[quaint shore]

Rest in peace

Another one lost

Scam bot

[placid osprey]

ohh mb

[placid osprey]

aight

[vivid solar]

Stunning harness

[placid osprey]

😔

[karmic mulch]

are you guys only staying between 1450 and 1470?

[vocal vale]

yes

[karmic mulch]

fair enough

its a very cool era

[karmic mulch]

creaming

[placid osprey]

im pretty sure the messer was in use during the game’s time period

[karmic mulch]

theyre staying to the region

[placid osprey]

i mean
the messer is from germany

[karmic mulch]

oh

sorry am stupiid

[coral path]

Kriegmessers are so kool

[karmic mulch]

the sabre'ness made me think ottoman or more east

[placid osprey]

🥶🥶🥶

[karmic mulch]

i love that

[cold yew]

Peasant🗣️ : Just aim for the weak spot

The weak spot:

[magic sand]

This is exactly why peasants would instead use simple bludgeoning weapons like a blacksmiths hammer or a really big stick to just crush through the knight’s armor

[slate mulch]

at that point you just grab a rondel and yknow

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-hammer-the-simpsons-gif-10067003

damn ok gg

[verbal bramble]

How is this Tony fellow not banned? They seem to just rejoin and keep doing... whatever that is.

[terse bronze]

Peasants very rarely fought on the battlefield

[cold yew]

what about peasant levy

or the one who is conscripted by thier lord

[terse bronze]

They weren't peasants

[robust tendon]

they were involved in smaller skirmishes tho

iirc

[terse bronze]

@robust tendon

Keyword rarely

Peasantry bring drafted to war is anecdotal at best

[robust tendon]

i meant like they weren't involved in major battles or armies w/e

[weak halo]

Turns out he did put a visor on it

[robust tendon]

but smaller engagements more common

[weak halo]

(ignore the play button icon)

[terse bronze]

So cool

And yeah there was a pivot on the helmet

For the visor

[chrome rover]

Whos the armourer behind all of these majestic pieces? i knew it, but forgot.

[robust tendon]

maks izobov

[bright token]

Interesting form of shoulder armour

I like this guy’s armet(?) with rondels

[robust tendon]

looks like a close helm

[bright token]

Yeah

Oh yeah the link of these pic

https://www.flickr.com/photos/89235234@N00/52785036996/

[cold yew]

What you mean werent peasant? explanation pls

[terse bronze]

People being drafted to go to war by x or y organism, lord or wtver were people who were expected to eb able to buy/take care of their gear; be able to attend drills and such and be able to go into campaign without leaving something important behind them (for instance, fields or previous soon-to-be food)

So people being drafted were, almost always, townsmen/bourgeois/burghers

Or even just actual professional soldiers

[weak halo]

Ok, he posted more pictures

[cold yew]

Ty for explanations

[robust tendon]

organism

[terse bronze]

Yeah you never know who's under that skin

[tight umbra]

that helmet is so beautiful

i really need a sallet man

[coral path]

Dude this is sooo badass beyond comprehension

[robust tendon]

blue

[lethal adder]

hes literally me fr

[slate mulch]

dunno how good this is but im just gonna leave it here

think theyre spanish or smth

[weak halo]

I'd say Italian

[steep yoke]

God damn I love brigandines

[coral path]

Idk why but this looks a little confusing

[slate mulch]

dunno

i like his hat

[weak halo]

The plate armor guy's hand

It looks like an inflated rubber glove

[slate mulch]

are you saying hands are easy to draw ?

[weak halo]

Yes

[slate mulch]

ohok

[terse bronze]

They're spaniards during the reconquista

so in the 1490s

[slate mulch]

😔

[weak halo]

Spaniards using Italian armor and dagger?

[slate mulch]

why not

[terse bronze]

Yes

Spaniards were fond of italian imports (and some other parts prefered franco-flemish stuff)

[terse bronze]

then you could also say "italians using flemish cabasset and "brigandine" (covered cuirass) with placart??" (italians didn't)

[slate mulch]

Johannes thundercock, bodycam off since agincourt

[terse bronze]

Another piece by the same artist (Battle of Toro 1476)

[slate mulch]

o la la

this hurts my brain for some reason

[terse bronze]

another one

[robust tendon]

italian style stuff could be found basically anywhere in western europe afaik, they were fond of exporting it

[terse bronze]

Also keep in mind that it's still modern art so it's not immune to errors anyway

but yeah, there are supposed to be iberians

[slate mulch]

so i was right

[terse bronze]

yes

[slate mulch]

yippie

[vocal vale]

it’s important to recognize that they’re equipped in a spanish fashion

fond of minimal arm harnesses, covered stuff, war hats, italian export

[prisma raven]

Yeah spanish (Castilian), from this book

[slate mulch]

i recognize you from somewhere but i cant put my finger on it

[prisma raven]

me?

[slate mulch]

yeag

[prisma raven]

idk

[slate mulch]

also damn half naked but helmet still on is a mood

[vocal vale]

that is really awesome lol

[weak halo]

Everyone told me that already

I was wrong, I get it

[vocal vale]

i know but im trying to relay what you should look for in the future

[terse bronze]

<@&1080390104562016306>

[rocky sand]

thank you

[prisma raven]

striped doublets are awesome

[austere sand]

Wrong channel mb

[bright token]

Beautiful modern reproduction by mr nan song, Chinese armourer

Love the butt cheek plates lol

[bright token]

Pretty he is inspired by this statue

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/15172288180

Peak german gothic armour for me

[steep yoke]

GOD DAYUM

[cold yew]

Can you guys get gear from Constantinople? They're technically in Europe right?

Paramerion from Constantinople

Feels like one handed and Two Handed

Constantinople Fall in 1453, Technically, This was 1450-1470

From Eastern Roman Empire

[vocal vale]

it’s eastern europe

so no

[cold yew]

Aw man i thought its all europe

Can they just add it as Exotic weapon though?

[vocal vale]

no

[cold yew]

@vocal vale Hm, but ERE have Trade route with Venice, Genoa, And other Italian City States, and weapons were regular trade item

There's also Mercenary From the 15th century, many Greek and Albanian soldiers formerly under Byzantine command called Stratioti fled west as mercenaries after Ottoman advances.

They served in Venice, Naples, and other Italian states. They brought their weapons and cavalry tactics with them, which often included curved sabres reminiscent of the paramerion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratioti

[cold yew]

They brought thier own equipment to western Europe

So technically it become western Europe?

@vocal vale So, what do you think?

Does that means there's more Eastern european weapon got in Western Europe?

[lone osprey]

whether its plausible doesnt really matter - the devs are focusing on western europe.

[nimble mason]

anyone have references of people using a sallet with a piece of cloth as a step in for a bevor

[robust tendon]

?

closest thing i can think of

[vivid solar]

<@&1080390104562016306>

[wary bear]

Ty

[vivid solar]

Ofc

[mellow zealot]

scam

[chrome rover]

new Alex The History Guy video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMd7Bw4JmEQ

[lethal sphinx]

portugal W 🔥

[verbal bramble]

I REMEMBER THIS HARNESS!- It was part of the inspiration for my ultimate dream harness, along with Lorenz Helmschmied's work

[chrome rover]

good taste

[verbal bramble]

Yeh- I, ADORE, gothic armor, there's something about the fluting, the articulation, the decorations with tracery and hearts- It is magical to me

[coral path]

I like this guy's armor

Italian and iberian are my favs

[robust tendon]

he has that shit on

[verbal bramble]

I also saw that! It shows a test of compression articulation / plate voiders, which is very useful indeed

[verbal bramble]

I myself don't like italianate stuff much, but I do like the scalloped, multiple-point design of some iberian pieces

[robust tendon]

i love how bulky italian armor can look

related eol drawing

[coral path]

This guys mail Sabatons are sick

[coral path]

wait are these the same dudes?

[terse bronze]

yur

[fleet junco]

sashes references

[nimble mason]

exactly what i mean

thjank u

[stark compass]

the empire fell in 1453, which is in the games range

and byzantine succesor states like epirus and morea did keep going until the 1460's and 70's

Byzantines didn't really have their own unique armor by 1450's 60's and 70's, it was mainly italian, so even if the byzantine/byzantine succesor state faction got added it would probably just be italian armor with a different flag and heraldry, maybe with 1 or 2 unique weapons

[vocal vale]

but the game's range is not eastern europe

[latent drift]

well they do plan to add heraldry to the game so if you really want to just use italian armor and make your heraldry look like byzantine heraldry

[stark compass]

Yeah, and as I stated, Byzantine armor of the period, ever since the Byzantine military collapsed in the early 14th century, was pretty much just italian armor, meaning it wouldn't any more unique than the other italian armors in the game, maybe 1 or 2 unique weapons.

Technically a byzantine faction COULD be added to the game

that would make sense with western europe still in mind

[vocal vale]

why

[stark compass]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeologus-Montferrat

[stark compass]

That would be sick!

[vocal vale]

neat

[verbal bramble]

OOOO- What makes this harness move better than a full harness?

[vocal vale]

buncha plates instead of big rigid ones

being a brigandine and all

[coral path]

The "breastplate" is brigandine

[verbal bramble]

Ah- For some reason I thought it had to do with the arm harness

[terse bronze]

enchanted by high elves instead of dwarves

[verbal bramble]

Hmm... Would adding crescent plates-

[verbal bramble]

PFF- HAHAHA!

[vocal vale]

it is lacking vambraces yeah

[verbal bramble]

Does the lack of vambraces affect mobility? Or not really/not to a significant degree?

[vocal vale]

anecdotally yes

in the wrists a bit

[verbal bramble]

Hm, I see

[stark compass]

Will painted helmets be a thing?

[verbal bramble]

Another question: How much would crescent plates improve mobility with a cuirass?

[vocal vale]

they were not painted during this time in history

[stark compass]

Oh, I didn't know that, was it after?

[vocal vale]

after and before yes

pretty much just the surrounding centuries lol

[verbal bramble]

Ooo- That is a pointy harness, I like it

I notice that a lot of iberian harness pieces have a pointy scalloped look to them, is that something particular to them?

[vocal vale]

yes

[prisma raven]

I wouldn't say it is exclusive to the Iberian style, but it is certainly characteristic of it

[verbal bramble]

I see, I see, that makes sense

[tepid pawn]

will tung tung sahir be in the game

[vocal vale]

get out !

[verbal bramble]

Fat Tony, is that you?

[verbal bramble]

Anyways, I wished to ask this. I assume it at least helps a little? But I don't know by how much

[prisma raven]

Toro - Iglesia de San Lorenzo el Real
Retablo de San Lorenzo (Detail)
Fernando Gallego Active between 1468-1507

Asturias Fine Arts Museum
Retablo de Santa Marina (Detail)
Maestro de Palanquinos
Active in Leon 1470-1500

Group of soldiers; peon, dismounted Jinete? and a crossbowman.

[fleet junco]

y he pose like that

[coral path]

He knows he looks good

[prisma raven]

The Resurrection by Maestro Bartolomé and workshop, 1480-1488, oil on panel - University of Arizona Museum of Art

[restive geyser]

am i the only person who wants to see chaperons

Most examples I know of it being shown in paintings and or portraits originates from like Burgundy, as this is also one of the more "popular" examples of the chaperon usage, but i rather like the hat overall and i know its incredibly popular among people in festivals, despite most of them wearing it quite incorrect. The surge of this hat stems from 15th century, but i know someone here can likely find examples of it even from further back

[restive geyser]

i pray we see chainmail like this, i find it quite dull we only get chainmail skirts and neck protection but no chainmail shirts

[stark compass]

Chainmail shirts would make a "11th century kit" so much easier

[coral path]

Nah, I'd love to see em

[trim maple]

its a bec de corbin

[terse bronze]

baits used to be believable

[trim maple]

or whats the difference

i thought it was a bardiche

[fleet junco]

bardiche fat

[terse bronze]

Bardiches are different and russian(or at least eastern)

This is a western european, very germanic halberd

[trim maple]

i just googled it

[terse bronze]

idc

[trim maple]

yea

idk

[restive geyser]

I assume you are referring to like... saxon attire...

I don't think many European countries picked up the "wear purely chainmail as a chest protector" idea

Besides most Scandinavian soldiers

Maybe Burgundy did it, but i think they still use some form of metal chest plate

[restive geyser]

A bardiche is a giant massive steel axe-like with a significantly smaller shaft

[stark compass]

I am just saying I’ve been wanting to fight with an eleventh century type of attire with the weapons of the period (large axe or shield and spear) just thought it would be fun

[restive geyser]

The difference between these two weapons is like mustard and ketchup

[restive geyser]

Trust me

Eleventh century isn't as cool as you think it is

Weapons then were very basic

As this was when we humans were starting to learn how we could extend our possibilities

And your longest weapon still wasn't that crazy

[stark compass]

Yes of course! However that’s one of the things I like about it

[stark compass]

Perhaps in Western Europe due to the style of fighting, but Byzantine pikes could often be 10 ft long

[restive geyser]

Byzantine weapons stem from baltic influence

So it makes sense why

Most European weapons

Originally come from a guy looking at middle east or baltic weapon

Thinking "Imagine that but German."

KABOOM! New weapon hit the market

[stark compass]

Yeah

[restive geyser]

Or you're Swiss and you make an original idea and everyone calls it German now

Like 90% of Swiss weapons end up being turned into

This is why the Swiss began putting swiss on there weapons. (This isn't true btw)

[vocal vale]

all those damn visigoths and ostrogoths and franks and saxons… using their binoculars to scope out baltic weaponry i guess

[restive geyser]

I forgot they existed

Which is funny because my family came to britain during the saxon raids 💔

[terse bronze]

French an Italian light cavalrymen in some texts can be asked to wear a good maille shirt and pretty much nothing else

There's also a lot of manuscript depictions of soldiers across Europe only wearing a maille shirt

[restive geyser]

Well that's a new one

I assume this is before they began making cavalry armor

[terse bronze]

No

[restive geyser]

That's wild

[restive geyser]

Is...that a doublet underneath chain?

[vocal vale]

yeah ?

[restive geyser]

Well that's another new thing

I thought doublet goes above chain

No wait

I am thinking backwards entirely

[terse bronze]

For the Italian part

[restive geyser]

I pray Burgundy is added for when the crossbow is added

[terse bronze]

French/flemish

[terse bronze]

Why specifically burgundy

[restive geyser]

Burgundy archers carrying longswords is the most funny shit ever

[terse bronze]

I'll have to read up the ordonnances again I forgot if it's the burgundian le french ones talking about bastard swords

I think it's the french and the burgundian only says "swords that are long-ish"

[restive geyser]

Regardless, it's incredibly funny

Especially when other countries gave archers arming swords

[terse bronze]

That doesn't mean they'd have men-at-arms longswords/estocs

[restive geyser]

And i think there is some paintings of them with knives

[restive geyser]

Oh well ofc

[terse bronze]

It just says "long swords" which is totally within the normal scope honestly

I really wanna see some jacks however

[restive geyser]

I don't think there is much paintings of Burgundy soldiers, now that i think about it?

[terse bronze]

Especially how the burg archers are described

[terse bronze]

There's a shit ton

Anything from France and Belgium/Flanders work

[restive geyser]

Is there? I never really seen much outside of politician portraits

[terse bronze]

Yes there is lol

[restive geyser]

Unique

I need to find a good site for paintings

[terse bronze]

They didn't wear anything unique to themselves anyway

[terse bronze]

BNF

Jehan Froissart is the most famous

[restive geyser]

Well, they basically wore almost the same thing as your basic Frenchman, but instead of purely blue it had red

Which is the only thing i think that really set them apart

Was the colors

[terse bronze]

That's a very video gamey way of thinking

Which is false

[restive geyser]

Is there another thing I am missing?

[terse bronze]

That armies didn't have uniforms

And or colored uniforms whatever

Like

RGB

[restive geyser]

Didn't most knights wear the colors of there coat of arms?

[terse bronze]

Knights didn't make up the bulk of the army

And sometimes they would wear something that can identify them

For instance you take 2 men-at-arms.

Northern France, both in Italian armor

One has a red tabard with a white + on it.

The other has a blue tabard with a red + on it

Who's English and who's french?

[restive geyser]

Ah, alright that makes more sense

So essentially: Identification on a knight wasn't exactly easy

And heraldry colors wouldn't help much with it

[terse bronze]

The answer was

Red tabard is french because of the white st Michael cross (like on the images I posted above)

And the English blue tabard with a red st George cross

The point is that in this topic, and it's shown multiple times across even texts and images, the color of the garment doesn't matter. The cross did on this context

[restive geyser]

The idea of identification back then was a lot more strange than it is now

[terse bronze]

As for the Burgundians, it was a bit more lax since they kinda were the only ones in continental Europe to have st Andrew cross ( X )

And so can see that with some surviving flags too where the X was yellow instead of red because the company it was about had a yellow cross on a red background, for example

Although iicr, at least on burg men-at-arms, they were asked to have blue and white plumes on their helmet and horse head armor

But that's from the top of my head I'm in bed rn

[restive geyser]

Fair nuff

I don't know much on medieval history, hence why I am here so i can learn it. So whatever new shit is cool to learn

[terse bronze]

Talking about cool shit

[restive geyser]

What was the purpose behind helmet ornaments

[terse bronze]

Look cool

[restive geyser]

Is that it?

[terse bronze]

And also serve as a plume holder or little flag holder

But just because it has a function doesn't mean it wasn't also embellished for the sake of looking fucking awesome

[restive geyser]

True

The crown is cool as shit

I know some paintings of crusaders have helmets with horns

Which is fucking weird

But kind of cool

[fleet junco]

we need the kings hat

or whoever is sitting on the throne

[terse bronze]

That scene is very "fantastical" in term of armor since it's depicting a' antique scene

Only the guy I zoomed on has "real" armor

[restive geyser]

A lot of teutonic knights liked helmet ornaments

[terse bronze]

That's also kind of a myth

There 1 source showing a teutonic knight with "horns" (wings) on his helmet and it's a depiction of a grand master, so hardly applicable to the majority

[restive geyser]

Oh i was referring to how a lot of them wrap that cloth around there helmet, i can't exactly remember the name of it but

That's what i was mostly referring to

[terse bronze]

If you really want some silly shit, go to " manuscriptminiatures.com "

Select Switzerland, set date from 1270 to 1370

Enjoy

[restive geyser]

Doesn't surprise me it's Switzerland

[terse bronze]

There's also so many armorial manuscripts online that I've seen some greathelms with literal bunny ears

[bright token]

Is the rerebrace knight wearing coat over his armour?

[terse bronze]

Probably not ? It's really hard to tell if the green if just a surcoat, or a jack

[restive geyser]

Did... i see a cavalry man with a fucking bird ornament on his helmet??

Not a small one

A whole ass bird

Why do these ornaments happen to be on the same exact type of helmet

[terse bronze]

Do you wanna see a great bascinet made out of wicker with skewered sausages as a crest

[restive geyser]

Is this also Switzerland

[terse bronze]

No

[restive geyser]

Shocking

Yes

[terse bronze]

But still germanics

[restive geyser]

Ofc

[restive geyser]

The guy who wore this 100% thought it was hilarious

[terse bronze]

I've read so many hilarious "slice of life" from different point in the medieval era that definitely convinced me that yeah, they weren't that much different from us

So it is a totally probably possibility that this guy thought it was funny

[restive geyser]

I think people expect old militaries to be formal

[terse bronze]

Just people in general tbh

Not just the military

But no they were normal

[restive geyser]

But forget history says wise otherwise, these are just men having fun with there pretty fucked up occupation

[restive geyser]

With the dumb shit that soldiers did in like the American revolution and 1812

[terse bronze]

I mean is it really more fucked up than boxing, rugby ect? I don't think so

[restive geyser]

It doesn't surprise me medieval soldiers did dumb things

[restive geyser]

I can't exactly get next level ptsd from just sports

What was that one sport

That aztecs played

Where they kick a spiked ball or smthing

[terse bronze]

Insert joke about annoying redditors thinking they're smarter and more evolved because they eat plastic and have phones

[terse bronze]

Aztecs were aliens actually

[restive geyser]

Aztecs are actually fake

Made by the cia

Reddit told me

Must be true

[terse bronze]

Redditors tend to forget clergymen are the origin of the scientific method

[restive geyser]

i honestly think the worst part is that a lot of them like i said before, think humans back then were just more serious

because ig humans delved into stupidity out of nowhere after the past few years, and we became the goof balls of human evolution

"Men were manly back then!" Humans are Humans, our stupidity just became easier to be acknowledged due to the internet

every species on planet earth does stupid shit for the sake of "its funny."

dude there photos, recordings and more of horses farting on each other

because they think its funny

or how birds laugh at each other when one falls

that guy was clearly just bored

[bright token]

Is it a funny scene of jousting practice?

[lone osprey]

from 2014 Daniel Huber - Marx Walters Turnierbuch (ran through google translate - looks all about right)

[lone osprey]

may not be a substitute but just the front of the hood covering at the very least a mail collar

I assume when it is worn without a bevor they dont think of it as a stand-in anyway is what I mean lol
that cloth aint gonna protect you from much

[restive geyser]

I assumed the cloth was used for like the temperature, or it could offer some protection.

I know english and french utilized padded hoods at some degree

[robust tendon]

what padded hoods i do not think i have ever seen a historical example of those

[restive geyser]

Someone here can likely find what i am talking about, there a lot of examples of it but they are modern remakes made out of shitty material

This is like the most shitty looking one possible, but you get the idea

[robust tendon]

i am thinking of those shitty modern gambeson ‘hoods’

[robust tendon]

oh those

[restive geyser]

I know they were used in the 15th century

[robust tendon]

ive not really seen those in depictions at all really

[restive geyser]

But i suffer finding results for it

[robust tendon]

i only remember one quilted looking arming cap in the mac bible but thats 13th century

[restive geyser]

I do wonder if they worked

[robust tendon]

what do you mean worked

[restive geyser]

Like if it worked as the intended purpose

[robust tendon]

i don’t imagine they would be great at protecting you from much, hence why i don’t think anything like the above image actually existed

liners existed and were worn with helmets but nothing like this as standalone as far as i know

[restive geyser]

Fair enough

[robust tendon]

id love to be proven wrong with a source tho but ive not seen anything so far

[restive geyser]

Someone likely has something to some degree

[fleet junco]

the exanima hood

[restive geyser]

Yes

[nimble mason]

yea

still looks cool

[terse bronze]

1476 Italy, BAV Urb.lat.1

Really the only one I can think of

[river cedar]

the actor that plays mr bean looks a lot like mr bean surprisingly

[coral path]

Yooo i have been looking for this!

[restive geyser]

Oh shit, thanks kevlar!

[coral path]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-at-you-gif-15677477317679001616

[steep yoke]

where did you find this spirit Halloween

[coral path]

Yeah its dope

[mellow zealot]

first person would be atrocious

[restive geyser]

Not rly

[mellow zealot]

oh i though it was just a mask, it's the whole helmet, my bad

[terse bronze]

reproduction

[lethal sphinx]

tuff af

[restive geyser]

Emperor Maximilian I had the most badass drip possible

Unfortunately his armor is not in the same time frame

[latent drift]

whens halfsword? 1470s?

[restive geyser]

Yes

Emperor Maximilian I armor was first recorded, i THINK in 1508?

But Maximilian had a bunch of different armors

He had a whole collection i am pretty sure

Which are in the correct time frame of the game

He was a rather luxurious man when it came to armor

[latent drift]

well he certainly had good taste

[restive geyser]

Someone here likely has a picture of the whole armor collection

But this is the most popular one i know of

This is from a Museum

[weak halo]

Didn't Maximilian I have armor in 1480?

[latent drift]

i think his collection is some of my favorate pieces of armor ever

[restive geyser]

I was referring to his famous pieces of armor

They are more modern

But he had armor from before 1500s

Like i said doe

You will need to ask someone here who has the sources

They'll likely give you better pictures of his vast collection than i can

[weak halo]

This one in particular

So sexy

[restive geyser]

Oh everyone who loves armor, loves his collection

It's massive yet unique

Like i said before

He was a rather luxurious man in terms of armor

[weak halo]

Do you think that the original was just supposed to be a lion or was it supposed to be the Nemean lion from Hercules' legend?

[restive geyser]

He was a pretty big fan of spiked knuckle gauntlets

A lot of his pieces have this

[weak halo]

Imagine the backhand slap

[restive geyser]

Imagine being punched by this

[latent drift]

suprised he didnt try and get spiked couters

[weak halo]

Iirc it was the French who really liked spiked couters/kneecops wasn't it?

[latent drift]

im not entirely sure

[weak halo]

Me neither

[terse bronze]

Probably the nemean lion

at least that sounds extremely plausible to me since yknow.. all'antica and all that

[weak halo]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too

[restive geyser]

I hope the swiss degen is added at some point

I'd think it'd be a super fascinating dagger

Especially for how it's a rather long

Well a swiss degen is technically a short sword

Degen pretty sure means sword

[weak halo]

I hope we get a joust gamemode

Ragdoll