references♥_1450-1470

[robust tendon]

they are called rainguards

meant to keep water from going into the scabbard iirc

[lone osprey]

ooh cool that's interesting

thanks

[hollow skiff]

Yh they prevent it from rusting

[latent drift]

does anybody know the difference between besagews and rondels for armpit protection?

[haughty creek]

I might be wrong, but from what I’ve been able to piece together rondels are any disc that is lightly dished and is attached anywhere for protection. Besagews can be rondels, but they specifically protect the armpit

There are loads of sources of at least early XV century English ones being shapes other than rondels when it comes to besagews

Once again, take this with a grain of salt, it’s quite possible I am 100% wrong

[latent drift]

i see thank you for this information

[hollow skiff]

Ur good, that’s correct

And thanks for the info

[robust tendon]

Caesar’s soldiers depicted as Burgundians on the 2nd of the four 'Caesar' tapestries, c.1470
Tournai, Southern Netherlands (Belgium)
Bern Historical Museum

3rd tapestry

[next orchid]

the guy shortening his sword is cool

[terse bronze]

?

[haughty creek]

Might be wrong. But I’m pretty sure this is outside the range of 1450-1470

[night kindle]

Something tells me this is a little out of the time range…

Just a little bit..

[robust tendon]

ye his hoqueton is neat

[robust tendon]

detail of the archers

an even cooler hoqueton

[void stream]

Painted sallet? Coooool

[lone osprey]

Probs fabric

[night kindle]

Someone should totally just drop a whole bunch of drippy plate armor rq

Just a thought 🙏

[dim mauve]

My plate legs. I bought steel sheets online and these will be the first piece of my suit that I'm going to alter since I want the cuisses before July.

The top articulated piece of metal on each leg is either going to be cut down or removed, and then replaced with the thigh section which I'll hammer out of steel, hinge, and then strap.

The poleyns (knees) were given to me for free and the greaves I bought online since the greaves I was given alongside the knees were so bad I didn't even attempt to do anything with them.

Currently the greaves and knees are riveted together due to the fact that I wear padding under them which would make them not work properly together if I attached them the proper way.

Modern rivets were used in many places as I don't currently have any means to do them properly.

One issue I need to fix is I attached the strap for the bottom of the knee section before I attached the greaves so the lesther is actually Inbetween the two sections, holding them apart near the edges.

[dim mauve]

(I'm basing them on the Fitzherbert effigy in Norbury).

[next orchid]

nice

[robust tendon]

could be, is likely covered though

I don’t think there is much, if any, evidence for painted armor in the 15th century

other than it used to be in fashion centuries earlier, as it is depicted frequently in the 13th century

[void stream]

appears to be painted rather than covered

[robust tendon]

who knows if even that is an artistic device to make the manuscript colorful, as maille is often shown colored as well and it is far less likely that they were going around painting maille lol

[robust tendon]

it does look that way, idk

It’s certainly not impossible

[void stream]

For example here it appears to be covered rather than painted

[robust tendon]

la velvet

[robust tendon]

also just noticed the guy off to the left has a bevor with breathing perforations

pretty neat, idk how common that is

[next orchid]

its semi fantasy armor anyways

and certainly not detailed enough to tell if the artist wanted it to be interpreted as painted or covered

painting armor doesnt seem to be very common in the 15th century though i must say

[robust tendon]

doesn’t seem to be done at all, most extants i’ve seen were just painted later

though maybe there are written sources or art i’m not aware of, i’ve not seen any evidence for it when it comes to that either

covering seems to be more practical anyways, as in it would prevent rain/whatever from damaging the armor itself

Other than fashion

Also it seems it would be much more annoying to replace damaged paint than like a velvet or silk covering. No need to have an artist repaint your shit when it gets chipped if you just use a textile

[next orchid]

painting was done in the mid 14th century and prior and in the 16th century. seems to fall in and out of fashion. the 15th century was probably the "out of fashion" period.

[haughty creek]

I don’t know if this is the right channel to ask this, but I’ve seen a lot of these terms refer to similar things with little explanation as to why, what is the difference between a Tonlet, Faulds, and a Paunce of plates.

[silver heart]

1. tonlet
2. fauld
3. paunce

[haughty creek]

I can very clearly see the difference between the tonlet and the others, but what’s different between the fauld and the Paunce. I know faulds are usually worn attached to a Plackart, is the only difference that paunces can be worn independently?

[vocal vale]

fauld refers to maille

do you mean a "culet"?

[silver heart]

2. fauld

[weak halo]

Culet is the back portion of the faulds

[vocal vale]

of the paunce of plates

[weak halo]

It's the same name for both

[vocal vale]

no, it's not

[weak halo]

Culet protects your cul (ass)

[vocal vale]

do you mean culet or fauld and paunce

[weak halo]

It's literally in the name

[vocal vale]

im confused

[weak halo]

The culet is the back portion of the skirt of plates

[vocal vale]

chyeah

[weak halo]

If I'm right they also call whatever assembly that covers your midsection (paunce, faulds, etc) braconnière

[robust tendon]

for a tonlet and paunce of plates, there is no difference

same thing

faulds refers to a maille ‘skirt’

those 16th century doohickeys are just really big tonlets/paunces of plates

my source btw

[bright token]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJlvCsQMT-t/?igsh=czdoM2txYjE3M2I0 cool italian sallet he’s wearing

mattia.drizzaossa

The duels between light infantry carried out together with the friends of @maglidacciaio have few simple rules:

1. You fight to the best of 3 points.
2. The touches are only valid if inflicted by cutting (in the case of a sword) on any area uncovered by plates or mail.
3. The touches of the tip are also valid on the mail.
4. Since you fight...

Instagram

[next orchid]

underarm
😔

at least theyre not holding their spears like 1/4 from the heel though lol

[silver heart]

overarm just seems like it’d be genuinely better for planting and driving the point into mail as well as getting around the shield (me thinks)

[next orchid]

overarm has the capability to be literally twice as powerful than underarm, although underarm can also be useful for more reach or allowing you to grip it with two hands more quickly when you wish. i will say it is funny that marozzo portrays the underarm technique to be the more unorthodox method.

overarm is also better for more close quarters fighting

and you can throw it

[silver heart]

ah okay i figured as much

[silver heart]

holy based??? need to see artistic depiction of this NOW !!!

[next orchid]

monte also talks about throwing the shield

mordhau reference

[silver heart]

🙀🙀🙀

[next orchid]

for knives but it proves that biomechanically it is just more powerful

[haughty creek]

Why is Gloucestershire police a test group?

Male, female, and Gloucestershire police

[next orchid]

different species

[haughty creek]

Fair enough

Good to get conclusive information

[next orchid]

yeah 😏

[silver heart]

114.9 j fucking hell😭

[next orchid]

yeah lmao

[terse bronze]

finally all REAL genders listen

Male, Female, RMCS and Gloucestershire Police

[robust tendon]

truth nuke…

[fleet junco]

add ian laspina

[turbid shadow]

retired war veteran after the 30 years war

[light forge]

overarm also lets you stab downwards with gravity in addition to better overall biomechanics

to get the same amount of force with an underarm stab you have to bring your second hand in to drive the pommel

[bright token]

cool spear

https://basedescollections.musee-armee.fr/ark:/66008/382PO?posInSet=74&queryId=N-EXPLORE-464eeb28-cf27-4706-a360-0167b002230d source

[fleet junco]

the hunting spear

the boar

[lone osprey]

has anyone ever seen a cuirass where the backplates are attached by a belt/strap like a lot of 15th century breastplates and placards?

[light forge]

Was this kind of dancing practiced in the 15th century?

[fleet junco]

blurry

[robust tendon]

blurry but peak

[fringe sigil]

Very romantic.

[late thunder]

that looks awesome

[terse bronze]

No that look like absolute ass

[terse bronze]

Don't post armstreet please

[haughty creek]

Is it just me, or are those tassets exceptionally long

[fleet junco]

Arm streeet

[fleet junco]

wat da flip

[sullen charm]

i wish to see willie wear this

[chrome rover]

valid

[blazing raft]

I mean- upside, your kicks now act like a sharp object, downside, heels in dirt.

[terse bronze]

[void stream]

Name: Histoire tripartite or Chronique de Baudouin d'Avennes
Source: Royal 18.E.V.
Dating: 1473 to 1479

[prisma raven]

nice ms

[void stream]

Royal MS 14 E II
Dating: 1473-1483

[vocal vale]

neat

[verbal bramble]

That is just a cheap LARPy reproduction from Armstreet. They, as a rule, should be avoided for anything regarding armor that isn't for LARP: Instead, I suggest looking into forums like myarmoury, the armour archive, or lurk a little here first

[verbal bramble]

Why the long stick to hold the sallet on the third picture?

[verbal bramble]

I think it boils down to Armstreet being, well, Armstreet.

[lone osprey]

Just a neat/novel way to show a servant or page holding the helmet of who theyre serving i think - same motif appears in a Vengeance of Our Lord tapestry showing a servant holding vespasian's helmet on a stick just like that

[verbal bramble]

Oh, that is indeed neat! I assume this would be used specially for those who decide to go mounted on cavalry rather than on foot

[lone osprey]

True id never thought of the stick as giving superior elevation so the rider can take their helmet but that makes sense lol

Pisanello and Breughel both have designs of young men wearing their masters helmets and in Schwarz's Trachterbuch theres an illustration of his page holding his helmet too

[haughty creek]

Do any of you hooligans have any good references for Awlpikes, or are those out of period

[haughty creek]

Thank you, that is beautiful

[sturdy lily]

What da heeel omg

Zesty looking aah sabatons

[verbal bramble]

I think they would be funny for an April's Fools joke

[fleet junco]

for april fools lets spam armstreet

[sturdy lily]

[silver heart]

the humble awlpike

[rain tree]

I was using it as an example for the mobility/weak spots of armor in real life (the armpits and elbows)

[terse bronze]

Which would be covered with maille

maille voiders type shit

or flancards

and shit

[robust tendon]

or uncommonly compression voiders

[verbal bramble]

That is still a poor choice, it is a low grade reproduction. For that, I suggest selecting manuscripts where the armpits are exposed, the arms are in different poses, or something like Tahlhoffer's fencing manual (I most likely butchered the spelling of his name, but you know): Few things are better for figuring out armor mobility and weak spots than a book that depicts how to fight in it, against it, and the stances to take

I feel, even Paulus Hector Mair is better for that than Armstreet, as while Paulus Hevtor Mair's book is way out of period, it was made by a fencing master from the late 16th century copying older manuscripts

[void stream]

wrong channel fella

I'm starting to agree with Kevlar about people not being able to read channel names

[verbal bramble]

Indeed, wrong channel-

[chilly sequoia]

oh sorry

[verbal bramble]

I think Kevlar is a bit too harsh with it, specially when people post armor from a different time period, but eh

[verbal bramble]

No worries, game-footage is prob where you would want to post it

[void stream]

A German chronicle dated 1468, I couldn't find the name but if anyone knows let me know

[verbal bramble]

Here is what I was talking about, for example, which shows what Bull was looking for (armor mobility and weak spots), and fits just in the time frame (1459), all taken from Talhoffer's personal manuscript, no need for any Armstreet pieces:

[verbal bramble]

Huh, why does the second last image have a relatively tall individual compared to a smaller one?

[void stream]

It depicts David's fight with Goliath

You can see the names in the text above

I didn't need to show this detail, but I just wanted to make it clearer

[fleet junco]

@robust tendon

[verbal bramble]

Oh- Yeah, that makes sense, also explains why the smaller dude is using a rock rather than a weapon proper

[terse bronze]

Again, terrible example

[haughty creek]

That is a depressing bevor

[verbal bramble]

Getting closer, but not quite there still: You can probably get some more resources by looking into specific dates, say, art that shows armor that was drawn between 1450 and 1475. If you know what to look for, you can find really nice stuff

Like the Pastrana Tapestries

[robust tendon]

fiore

di battaglia

i think

[fleet junco]

@robust tendon what is it depicting

[vocal vale]

pollaxe head filled with toxic powder

he gives you the recipe

[fleet junco]

should we

[vocal vale]

he says no

[fleet junco]

[lone osprey]

that's wild

[deep roost]

Do you have more photos like this to help with painting? I'm trying to draw as a beginner

[rain tree]

I was trying to give a guy a simple armor picture to show that joints are the weak spots

[fleet junco]

bevor

[verbal bramble]

Hm, fair, in that case, the fencing manuals are a good resource, like Talhoffer's personal manuscript, which I will link (along with all of the manuals Talhoffel wrote and drew) here: https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Hans_Talhoffer

Do make sure that, whatever you post in this channel, fits in the time frame between 1450-1470, give or take about 5 years, and do make sure it is a good-quality reproduction or it is a drawing from the time period (as in, drawn in 1460, not drawn to represent something of 1460)

[next orchid]

why do we need an image to say that "the weak spots are the gaps"

[terse sorrel]

Well, just so that people don't figure that the thickest sections of the armor are the weakest points, because that'd be terrible!

[verbal bramble]

...Good point

[lone osprey]

from here

https://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/objects/3d5a9d23-e394-43b6-bf3a-5ec25db64a25/surfaces/51bd7bd9-4fa8-4391-8cee-1326e190c421/

depicting a 14th century battle but it's a miniature that fits into the game's timeframe

Or wait
Are those glaives just depicted thin or on an angle
I cant tell and see glaives in the other miniatures

[fleet junco]

pink armor

[night kindle]

getting rep 80 in the 15th century must be hella rough

[next orchid]

theyre like a normal 15th century vouge

[fringe sigil]

You know, Halfswords team should add an IRL armor chatroom, that would be sick.

Hey, isn’t this in Mordhau?

[verbal bramble]

No clue, never played Mordhau

[fringe sigil]

You should…

[fringe sigil]

It’s the crude armor kit

[terse bronze]

can't believe they turned mordhau crude rework into a real thing!

and the gauntlets might be based on this, but it's too early for the game

[verbal bramble]

Aren't those gauntlets (or similar ones) in the game too?

Half Sword, I mean

[vocal vale]

#1287593500208005200 #1287593473217790034

feel free

[terse sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1368279687612338331/1368284755740721172/image0.jpg?ex=682b707b&is=682a1efb&hm=889edb64616d226db8aa2b043873fe2ac8dc89856801392016ba7037fb69beb2&

They are, yeah.

[terse sorrel]

Does something distinguish these and the ones in the game?

The plate going over the fingers seems larger, is that it? Something like that?

[fringe sigil]

Thank you very much!!!

[haughty creek]

I am going to throw you

[verbal bramble]

I... no comment.

[indigo dagger]

Is there something I don’t know?

[haughty creek]

I hate that you took the time to model the hook to hold the bevor in place

You didn’t just assault us with an abomination

You assaulted us with an abomination you put work into

[verbal bramble]

It completely flies in the face of anything regarding armor of the 15th Century

[haughty creek]

It’s not even representing an XV century helmet

[fleet junco]

what does it mean

[sturdy lily]

[bright token]

Lovely helm

[bright token]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DJ1PLoltf18/?igsh=dDJ4azhtdDJjZjk1

der_kriegsknecht_zu_landshut

Landshuter Ratsherr im Harnisch 😀💍📿
.
#landshut #langschwert #longsword #history #reenactment #livinghistory #bayern #bavaria #1475 #15thcenturyfashion #15thcenturyreenactment #15thcenturyarmor #15centuryart #15thcentury #latemedieval #spätmittelalter #mittelalterreenactment #mittelalter #medieval #medievalreenactment

Instagram

What is the name of this cool coat?

[lone osprey]

i think for german most garments going over armour can be called a Wappenrock (or that one pictured in particular could be a Rock by itself as Schwarz often calls similar coats). Schecke is related to english 'jacket' too so it makes sense to call it that. so either is fine but they're both the modern german terms that have more precise older words. that one has the Leerärmel or literally empty sleeves with the slit in them

[bright token]

Thank you for the info!

[lone osprey]

all good it is something i am keenly interested in

[bright token]

Im interested in clothings that a 15th cent. knight could wear over his harness :]

[wooden crow]

Wars of the roses

or something

[next orchid]

wappenrock = arming frock, literally "coat of arms" 😏

[next orchid]

nice tailoring

[verbal bramble]

Holy shit that is a GOOD kit

It almost looks like, I am not sure how to describe it, like someone photoshopped it? For lack of a better term?

[terse bronze]

It's crazy good

[lone flame]

In the clerge, we all fam 😎

[lone osprey]

my favorite part about two distinct historical instances of 15th century germans laying ambushes in religious dress is that's how Reinold and Malegis trick Charlemagne into giving them back Bayard in the Vier Aymonskinder

[deep roost]

Can you share some photos that can be a reference for me for drawing? Like this one

[open jackal]

What’s the source for this?

[deep roost]

thanks man ❤️

[prisma raven]

?? Some of the soruces are there

[open jackal]

Yeah. Just saw that, lol

Like right as I asked that, sorry.

I meant the actual journal, though, not where they got the kit information

[prisma raven]

Here are the original posts
https://x.com/Eol4242/status/1889727752699343333
https://x.com/Eol4242/status/1890096180530757829
https://x.com/Eol4242/status/1876662866264420720
https://x.com/Eol4242/status/1815814777526182176
https://x.com/Eol4242/status/1653764675253805059
https://x.com/Eol4242/status/1458857239079436297
https://x.com/Eol4242/status/1394356067425980419

[open jackal]

Thanks boss

[latent drift]

are these said mal engines are real thing? if so that is fascinating

[prisma raven]

yuh

some examples of gauntlets with blades/sharp points

[verbal bramble]

I LOVE IT!

[ancient pivot]

How do doublets keep that perfect shape in the torso? Do they have structure built in somehow?

[lone osprey]

was thinking about spikes when i saw this spiky fella
maybe it's just fantasy in this case to make him seem more malignant beside christ though

[verbal bramble]

I do also wish to know that, as currently I am trying to make the patterns for my own arming doublet (or tried to, anyway

The waist is definetly squeezed, and maybe the chest is exagerated a little

But what makes the chest be squeezed? No clue, honestly

[lost zealot]

i know that this img might be a lil early for the game setting, but does the polearm the men at arms using based on a real example ?

[prisma raven]

There's a mal engine in that poleaxe btw

[terse sorrel]

The evil devices..

Even the name sounds terribly wicked!

[fleet junco]

is that david and big dude

[vocal vale]

goliaf

[haughty creek]

Goliath

[terse bronze]

goliaf

[void stream]

goloia

[robust tendon]

it’s a mal engine and yes stuff like that was used

i suppose it could also be a fantasy-ism, since mal engines were very much frowned upon and in the context of the bible, Goliath is not ‘good’

[lost zealot]

Soo theres no real example of such polearm ?

[robust tendon]

i’m not aware of any extants but we know these sorts of things were real

[lost zealot]

hmm interesting, it would be cool if this weapon be added as a boss weapon

[lost zealot]

evil >:3

[weak halo]

Willie engine

[verbal bramble]

Was the billhook-like butt spike in some of the pollaxes from the game considered mal engines?

[next orchid]

its a fantasy-ism to portray an older time period

its an entirely plausible weapon, but probably not intended to be one

[robust tendon]

probably not, but i'm not sure

[verbal bramble]

Super late reply, but you can do that too. No idea if the 15th Century europeans knew about it, but most likely at least 16th Century Iberian Peninsula did.

[worn panther]

LANTERN SHIELDS! they were made during the 15th and 16th century

[fleet junco]

this isnt within the time frame of the game

[fleet junco]

literally the armor behind it is like not medieval

[worn panther]

I mean have you been to a museum before they sometimes throw all sorts of armour around lol

[terse bronze]

big lie uh oh!

[worn panther]

I didn’t know 🙃 aight ill not post stuff then

[fleet junco]

pls post more stuff

[terse bronze]

wepon

[next orchid]

buhurt images not allowed

👎

[next orchid]

soccer ball pommel

fute bull in the european tongue

[open jackal]

Grug feel refined

Grug use nice club

[terse bronze]

grug feel refined enough to be tourneymaxxin

[robust tendon]

kolbenturnier maxxing

[west minnow]

GYAAATTT What a fine maiden

[fleet junco]

add old people

[mortal thicket]

Yes i remember 1450

Those who og

[bright token]

Sallet by Francois L'Archeveque. He said there are sallets like this at Musée de l'Armée in Paris and at the Castelnaud Castle.

Look similar to the one we have in the game rn 😄

[fleet junco]

thats crecey

[polar marten]

Lobter

[verbal bramble]

Ooo- which region is the harness from?

[vocal vale]

alla tedesca

south german

[fleet junco]

fluted greaves coming in 3040

[restive geyser]

This was probably requested a few times, but: flails, military flails were used in 632-1540s, this is a painting of the battle of Nineveh, painted in 1452. This painting here shows a 3 ball flail

Flails saw uses in Germany, France, and Britian.

The painting with the yellow clothed man is of a painting of in 1520s, a lot earlier but it's to show the time frame of these weapons existence

[bleak ore]

In terms of sallets is this one worth my time accuracy wise? https://www.wulflund.com/german-sallet-ca-1480-medieval-helmet

[terse bronze]

no

[bleak ore]

what would be the best place to get a good fixed visor sallet?

[terse bronze]

A smith

[bleak ore]

ok

[robust tendon]

there are some good smiths like Maks Izobov, Robert Macpherson, Roman Tereschenko, and Piotr Feret that you may want to look into if you're actually interested

https://platener.eu/helmy_en.html piotr's website

[bleak ore]

thank you so much

[robust tendon]

do keep in mind that high-quality smiths are very expensive

and you may have to wait a while

though ofc varies by what you want

[bleak ore]

that makes sense I am not in a position to buy at the moment I was just basically online window shopping

[terse bronze]

Honestly don't think a sallet like that would be crazy expensive

[bleak ore]

that is goood news to hear

[terse bronze]

depends on the smith ofc they have different prices and all but the shape and construction is quite simple all things considered

[bleak ore]

thank you all for the info

[robust tendon]

yeah, not cheap though i don't think

i've seen some people say a good skullcap could run like 200 US

[fleet junco]

skull

[latent drift]

i love me some skullcaps

[pine belfry]

True History Shop, if you're based in Europe. He made outstanding, battle ready equipment

Armor and helmet made by him. Spring steel, ligh and hard as rock. He make also a lot of stuff from 1300 to 1500

[fleet junco]

Thats the guy from kcd

[vocal vale]

he still ship to the states?

[pine belfry]

What you mean with kcd? Anyway is me in the pic

[pine belfry]

I think yes, but with Trump's tariffs not really sure about it

[fleet junco]

https://kingdom-come-deliverance.fandom.com/wiki/Cumans

[pine belfry]

Ahhh ok I see. Yeah my kit is for a 11th century Rus so cuman influences are definetly there, even if I'm more on the Miklagard (Byzantium) side about my equipment (the klibanion mostly, but I also have a nasal helmet that fit quite well with any Byzantine equipment)

[vocal vale]

i was debating buying the churburg s18 armet from him

[pine belfry]

As I said, he is a really good smith, and his stuff are definetly battle ready. Only thing is I don't actually know why you need it, if for full contact sport like Buhurt or reenactment with no heavy fighting. If no Buhurt, I would stick on something cheaper, otherwise he is a really good choose, as well Sharukan Marker or Buhurt Tech, not sure that they have those kind of helmet tough

[vocal vale]

harnischfechten

[pine belfry]

Ok but full contact or technical? I suppose the first?

[vocal vale]

yes

[pine belfry]

Yeah so definetly he is good for that. Check also Buhurt tech and Sharukan market 😉

[verbal bramble]

The Phil. Museum visored sallet from that store is also really good, or at least looks like so to me

[odd zenith]

I feel quite hungry

[lapis saddle]

Add slingshots

Or bows

Or spears

[eager nymph]

me when ive never played the game

[void stream]

Ms. fr. 134
Dating: 1467-1475

Source :BL Royal MS 18 E V
Dating: 1473-1479

[bleak ore]

No I live in texas

[wind prism]

This miniature is actually meant to represent the battle of Hattin, however in general the armaments reflect the era it was made in (the 15th century)

[exotic lance]

Can I sleep over
And wake up next to you?
I want to feel you near
Just let me whisper in your ear

[lapis saddle]

Sorry, meant throwable spears

[lost zealot]

does hre men at arms use tabards in the 15th century ?

[lost zealot]

may i ask you, on what manuscript did you find this iconography ?

[robust tendon]

yes

[lost zealot]

is there any iconography that depict it ?

[lone osprey]

I assume that if they wore anything with heraldry on it over their armour it would probably have the heraldry of the polity that they were from in the empire

the description of the empire-wide army mustered for the siege of neuss suggests that the groups from each region represented themselves as being from those regions and not wearing all black and gold with big double headed eagles on their clothes if that's what you mean

[lost zealot]

ah thank you lad, anyways is there any og source on the iconography ?

[lone osprey]

from 1974 Richard Vaughan - Charles the Bold The Last Valois Duke of Burgundy

[lone osprey]

oh sorry you mean like deeper primary sources. probably I'm sure but I haven't really dug into 15th century stuff. only primary source off the top of my head is a very late 15th century decree by Maximilian that all knights of the Order of St George are to wear a white gown over there armour with the order's arms on it.

that Vaughan excerpt cites primary sources though (chronicles) so it's pretty good

[lost zealot]

yes, thankyou for your help lad

really needed it for smth

[terse bronze]

#killallburgundians

[young plaza]

Just got my new breastplate and figured maybe it can help as a reference. It's a reproduction of this ca 1470-80s alla tedesca piece from the Carsten Klingbeil collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/6521301255/in/photostream/
The original has been altered in the 16th century (possibly even later), so the armourer Rasmus Rasmussen and I workshopped making a repro of what it might have looked like in its original late 15th century state. Master armourer Albert Collins also gave some advice through the process.

[west pasture]

has this been "cleaned up" with AI?

[wind prism]

Idk, I did sharpen it originally but I also found a clearer copy and I don't know which is which

@west pasture

[west pasture]

this is the original, the sharpening process loses detail so I think it's unadvisable to do it to a historical source

e.g. in the original you can see the breaths on the armet of the king, in the cleaned up version you can't

[wind prism]

Sorry, I just had it in my library so I put it here

Mb

[west pasture]

all good 🙂

[dim mauve]

Getting closer to my desired look. I'd be wearing an arm harness and a leg harness in the image but both of them are dismantled right now.

[surreal plover]

the cake is a lie!

[bright token]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/6531066557/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/6521301255/in/photostream/

why does this one has 2 rivets on the plackart?

[latent drift]

anybody know where i can find some flemish stuff

[hollow skiff]

In the place where the Flemish stuff is

[void stream]

And look there's willie right there!

[bright token]

What manuscript are these guys from?

[haughty creek]

Probably in Flanders

[young plaza]

It's possibly a later addition

[void stream]

Bayerische Fürstengenealogie - Mscr.Dresd.P.47

https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/14388/2?tx_dlf[double]=0&tx_dlf[pagegrid]=1&cHash=5985bc4a56f7cf2f32125f1e526c3f13

oh poop this is from the start of 16th century, I'm spreading disinformation 🥀

sorry y'all

[restive geyser]

Swiss Degen

a Swiss Sword (its just a longer swiss dagger)

was a Swiss weapon that saw use by the Swiss Confederacy as a sort of sidearm, while this sword is on the shorter end of other arming swords, it was reported to be able to do fairly well against the Messer.

Speaking of the Kriegsmesser: the Kriegsmesser was a two-handed curved tipped sword, the sword was actually used in LATE 15th century. so in half sword timeline, this sword would actually be used by military.

(the painting is of the Swiss Degen, you can see the shortsword around the waist of soldiers and a replica of the swiss degen. the other picture which is behind a case, located a museum in Vienna, this was a military variant of the short Messer dagger, which was actually longer.)

[chrome rover]

Swiss Kriegsmesser mensioned!!! I used a long Swiss Kriegsmesser as my inspiration for my OC 1h/2h sword. :D

[chrome rover]

might be a bit too long, my variant is 140cm grip included

[clever oar]

I’m new

https://tenor.com/view/steveglover-steveglover69-steveglover-dance-unc-dancing-uptown-downtown-gif-9534114726150688293

https://youtube.com/shorts/_uIgE1IKPaI?si=y1w6RkN0EUqUdZ7E

[vagrant blade]

https://tenor.com/view/new-member-roleless-speech-bubble-im-new-here-say-hi-newbie-gif-27203059

[lucid briar]

this looks like one of the kriegmessers made by pavel moc!

[chrome rover]

most likely the inspiration i used, didnt know who made it though!

[young plaza]

I have a repro of that degen too

Bought from ArmaBohemia

Original in Historisches Museum, Bern, Switzerland

[lucid briar]

I have one too so that is why I immediately recognized it.

[chrome rover]

im jealous

[lucid briar]

he is selling a batch of swords soon if its within your budget to buy a sword its 100% worth it.

[wanton sandal]

or maby ad pebbles or rocks to throw or use as a terrible melee weapon

[west minnow]

Yeah, I've thought about having just randomly sized rocks and pebbles, beat off willies more effectively in broke boi tier

[wanton sandal]

yes and maby, just maby, a 1 in 20 chance the rock is sharp

[west minnow]

Caveman me like, remind me of genocide.

rhymes with Grug.

[verbal bramble]

I am trying to draw these two armets that fit within the time frame of Half Sword, and I find this odd protusion coming out of the side of the armet: What is it? What was it used for?

[weak halo]

What? The chin overlap?

[fleet junco]

Thats the thing that allows tge thing to close around the head

[verbal bramble]

No, the bar-like or rod-like object on the visor

[fleet junco]

Thats to open and close it

[ancient pivot]

just a handle for the visor

[weak halo]

It's for lifting it

[fleet junco]

Cause u have gaunlets

[weak halo]

Or even mittens

Limits fine motor skills

[next orchid]

plate armor doesnt limit anything smh

its basically a tracksuit

[verbal bramble]

That makes sense, but wouldn't the pointed shape of the visor already help lifting it?

[weak halo]

Dude, mittens totally limit your dexterity lol

[next orchid]

no man once u stick plates on there it becomes super flexible

i watched a tiktok short on this

[next orchid]

u might have something in ur hands

like the lance, or the sword

i forget the duel, but one guy got his visor thrown open, and he closed it with the pommel of his sword

[weak halo]

Do you have snow where you live?

[next orchid]

i was being funny

[verbal bramble]

That's actually kinda badass ngl

[next orchid]

yeah it was

forgot the account though

maybe monstrelet

[verbal bramble]

This does open the question: Why don't sallets have similar visor handles?

Why does it seem to be a mostly armet-only thing? (as far as I have seen from my archives)

[next orchid]

probably not required in the first place

as with many things

also i forgot

this is the main thing

[weak halo]

I'd guess because of the gap between the bevor and visor, making it easier to grab

[next orchid]

armet has the bevor

over the bottom half of the visor

idk why i forgot

[weak halo]

That too could explain it

[next orchid]

you wouldnt be able to lift it without the bar

[verbal bramble]

The wrapper plate? Oh yeah- that explains it very well without opening up questions about why it is an armet-only thing

That makes a lot of sense

[verbal bramble]

Yeah, that is probably it: A visor handle to use when you are wearing the wrapper

[next orchid]

yeah cant find it. i do remember reading it though so im not just making it up

it was said everyone thought he was losing cuz his opponent was able to throw open his visor

but then he just threw it back down and continued

[void stream]

https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg142/0001/image,thumbs

[fleet junco]

pink castle

[vocal vale]

that's rad

[next orchid]

would be more rad if i found it again 😔

[lucid briar]

I know of one sallet with a decorated stud to help with the visor but its a closed sallet and its this one

[verbal bramble]

I remember seeing it before, but didn't saw the visor "handle"

[lucid briar]

maybe a few "owl face" sallets have some kind of bar like the armet but I cant find any right now. in general sallets didnt need the bar because of the construction of sallets, you can simply tilt the helmet back like this.

keep in mind that both of these helmets were popular around 1490

[robust tendon]

paint on those sallets is also ahistorical afaik

these helmets, so called black sallets, were covered

[lone osprey]

Christopher Retsch thinks potentially painted or covered in fabric which I think is fair
from a lot of images it's not exactly possible to distinguish

[robust tendon]

covering seems more practical

and there are extants with holes to attach a textile covering

some examples of such extants (painted later lol)

i do agree that, for art, it's impossible to distinguish exactly but a lot of the evidence does seem to point to these sallets being covered more often, if not always, than they were painted

also i'd think it's way easier to replace a textile covering as opposed to paint getting chipped or damaged

[lone osprey]

It

's all very circumstantial so I see no point in closing possibilities

in a 1555 inventory of the innsbruck armoury, there are two pieces of armour listed as being painted too, but these are the only primary source references I've ever found and they're of a chamfron and potentially a cuirass and not a sallet

second one may not even be referencing the cuirass itself tbh

[robust tendon]

well yeah in the 16th century painting armor seems to come back into fashion after falling out of it during the 15th

did they still even use 'black sallets' in the mid 16th? idk

[lone osprey]

maximilian's triumphal procession as several rows of them wearing sallets of that shape

[strange shadow]

what even is a black sallet?

[robust tendon]

these

[lone osprey]

“The simplest way to finish a piece was to not finish it at all, an option for low-quality armour produced in large quantities for common soldiers. This finish would be taken to the planishing stage but rarely any further, even the planishing being cursory and only smoothing out the worst ridges. Some very simple filing could also be carried out. IV.13 is an excellent example of a ‘black’ sallet with its rough surface which is so lightly planished that the raising marks can still be seen.”

[robust tendon]

this another extant?

[strange shadow]

oh wow, very cool, ty

[robust tendon]

it really seems like they were covered always, given that all extants I have seen have holes with which to attach textile

[lone osprey]

royal armouries 1490
IV.13 [pages 174–177; figures 44, 174–178] in Nickolas Dupras, “Armourers and their Workshops: The Tools and Techniques of Late Medieval Armour Production,” PhD Thesis,

[robust tendon]

i mean yeah it's possible they also painted these but there's just no evidence to support that afaik

while there's much to support the idea they just covered em

[strange shadow]

i wonder howm ant helmets nad what not are lost to history

[robust tendon]

oh thousands

hundreds of thousands probably

[terse bronze]

Bazillions

[lone osprey]

I guess you're right. to be honest the holes along the border really are a smoking gun for fabric rather than paint. would love to know if it was demented restoration or something more authentic like by the descendants of the original owners for why the royal armouries one is painted though

like I lean towards fabric covering because I think it looks better and is probably way more dignified if it's functioning as a kind of uniform than a layer of paint. the infamous modern painted ones are kitschy and gross. but I don't like to be convicted either :/

[next orchid]

Painting takes off again by 1530

Pre 1400 (specifically mid 14th c. and before) painting helmets was practiced. Goes in and out of fashion

15th c. was squarely in the "out of fashion" period

[next orchid]

Notice how none of the patterns that show up on virtually all of these painted black sallets show up in art

[next orchid]

I think at least some of them had their painting done during the mid 16th c., since around that time older armor was being repurposed for parades

But after their service life

[lone osprey]

Yeah I get that the ones with the heraldic patterns never show up in art, but personally, I wouldn't want to be closed to the possibility that e.g. helmets in this painting may be represented as lined with fabric or painted. although I agree that extant helmets with the fabric lining holes and the comparable crudeness of covering them in a layer of paint is good evidence against that possibility

[next orchid]

Problem is we have quite literally no evidence for painting helmets in the period for when they were in use

The fact that the painting patterns are so consistent, yet we NEVER see them in art obviously should raise eyebrows

[next orchid]

Even 40 years later, I'm pretty sure the military men painting their armor were mostly French and Italian (and were painting them black and with pictures over)

Yes, "could they" have painted? Sure. Maybe they did, but when we have no evidence for it, but more evidence to the contrary; and the fact that the helmets with the same painting designs also all have liner holes... (And I mean it's not the fact they have liner holes, but it's the pattern itself showing up on helmets with liner holes, which probably means the design itself was not contemporary to the helmet)

[lone osprey]

I guess people like Retsch are open to the possibility that images of coloured sallets may be representing either covered or painted helmets. not based on the ugly later painted Royal Armouries and KHM ones with their patterns. I think the liner holes are good evidence against painting though. but I just like to be a fallibilist - could always be wrong, especially with history being so patchy and incomplete

[next orchid]

Yes and it's because it's patchy and incomplete that we must look at all the sources; and the written sources are nonexistent or near nonexistent for the late 15th c.; yet not nonexistent for the 16th or 14th. You cannot prove a negative, but we have a shitload of written documents regarding fabric covered armor.

It's like saying every single soldier carried a mace to fight armored opponents or some shit. Sure, they could have, but the evidence we DO have doesn't support it.

And by nature, we ought to look at the things we have and not the things we don't.

[lone osprey]

I'm not trying to prove anything except point out that I agree with Retsch that images of coloured sallets may be representing either fabric covered or painted helmets. I dont think it's proof I'm just personally not closed to the possibility ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[robust tendon]

my thought process as well, authenticity shouldn't be based on the simple possibility of something, and instead based on what you have actual evidence for

there's just zero evidence for painted 'black sallets' so it's a safe bet to assume they were contemporarily just covered

[next orchid]

It's just poor academic methodology to make up a solution for something we already have evidence for (in this case, fabric coverings). Until someone digs through the documents and finds an account of such, which he has not, there's no real reason to posit the idea, except perhaps to muse.

[terse bronze]

but.. it makes sense!

[lone osprey]

I think 'poor academic metholodgy' is an exaggeration for adding the words 'or painted' to your sentence about coloured helmets, but to each their own

[robust tendon]

the armory..

[robust tendon]

historical arms&armor references

[verbal bramble]

Impressive!

Oh, I am also trying to draw an armet (ref-1917 from the Mathias Gnoll archives), but I feel like I made the armet skull too close to the head

[terse bronze]

Nuhuh

Armets are pretty close fitted

[verbal bramble]

Huh, so the top of the head is fine? That is the thing that bugs me, I feel like I made it too close to the head

This is the part that bugs me

[dusk furnace]

Head but stab:P

[verbal bramble]

...What does that mean?

[dusk furnace]

You just stab then you just headbut them then your very much looking down

[verbal bramble]

Oh- Pfft. It isn't the spike motif that bugs me, it is how close the skull of the armet is to the head

[dusk furnace]

Ik

But it's look's fun to hit it to a Commoner

[verbal bramble]

I think I fixed it, but still not quite there yet

[dusk furnace]

https://tenor.com/etr3RLXPkmb.gif

[verbal bramble]

Pff- Fair

[lost zealot]

hello yall, ive been trying to draw a fan concept design for a game, is this armor set historically accurate ? or is there anything that i should add

[vocal vale]

the central ridge of the paunce of plates looks a little off center to the left of where it should be

also in the italian manner the tassets would likely have a semicircle "cutout"

although it is not a rule

[turbid shadow]

Oh shit bloody bastards?

This is really good!!!

[vocal vale]

also i dont think there should be straps on the side of that armet

[turbid shadow]

They connect the rondels ircc

the original armet didn’t have them

If I were to nitpick something regarding the fanart of that piece.. it’d maybe be the crest

[vocal vale]

what do you mean

[turbid shadow]

no wait

the straps would be for like the wrapper i think

mby not i shouldn’t speak of something Im not entirely sure of

[vocal vale]

yes

of which that armet does not have

[turbid shadow]

okay so give it a wrapper

It’d make it feel more like a foot combat harness

[vocal vale]

wouldnt removing the wrapper give that impression more

[turbid shadow]

perhaps

You could argue on both sides

[lost zealot]

yeahh dude !!!

[lost zealot]

oh, olright

[lost zealot]

you play that game ??

[turbid shadow]

Yeah

[lost zealot]

nicee what rank are you now ?

[turbid shadow]

bloody legend

but i cheesed my way through it

[lost zealot]

what

[lost zealot]

how

ive been playing this cursed game for 1 year only to get gold 2

[turbid shadow]

if you have multiple devices you can fight yourself

[lost zealot]

yeah i know that tactic, but how long have you been doing that ??

[turbid shadow]

Took like two days or so

The game doesn’t really have many players nowadays you could easily get yourself in a match

[lost zealot]

yeah in other server apart from the eu one

[lost zealot]

is there any reference on how it looks like

[lost zealot]

wanna duel lad :3

[turbid shadow]

gimme a bit

oh sure

Something along the lines of this would work

[chrome rover]

Bloody Bastards?

is that the game youre going for?

[lost zealot]

yup

i love that crappy game

[chrome rover]

played it a while ago, got boring so i quit

but nice fan art

only odd thing ive noticed is that the cuirass/faulds look a bit thicc

but im not sure

[lost zealot]

oh that thing, i want to add it to the design but got kinda complicated so i delete de og design :/

[lost zealot]

erm, its a fan concept design nawt a fan art 🤓

[turbid shadow]

well if you don’t wanna add it than removing the straps should suffice

[chrome rover]

so you want the dev to add it?

thats cool

[lost zealot]

he had been active for a while in twitter, so i think why not try to give it a shot !

[chrome rover]

shoot your shot

[lost zealot]

add friend me if ye had time 👍

[chrome rover]

you miss all the shots you dont take

[lost zealot]

so what makes you bored of this game ?

[granite torrent]

plate helmet

so

how mad would you be if i stole that

[vocal vale]

probably not at all considering it isn’t his

[granite torrent]

well

its mine now

[chrome rover]

it got repetitive, i fully completed the HRE, halfway done with England and the Rus. plus multiplayer was ass, it was just weird flailing and stuff.

[lost zealot]

Since when did you play bruh, theres new update already

[chrome rover]

i played a little after japan came out, but that was it

i started playing a few months before that

but by the update i wasnt really playing anymore

[lost zealot]

Quite the same case here

But i continue it after the new announcement by the dev

[chrome rover]

new announcement?

[lost zealot]

Yes, theres many weapon nerfing in game, like the double headed weapon and such.

[robust tendon]

the schlachtschwerts

[terse bronze]

the war/battle/prejudice/beef swords

[verbal bramble]

I am not exactly sure if this fits in 1450-1470 (if it doesn't, I will delete it), but I found it cool (I think the spiky trefoil is supposed to represent The Holy Trinity)

[robust tendon]

looks like it does

[twin flume]

wow

[lucid briar]

its the collar of the Order of the Swan from the holy roman empire! It was founded in 1440 but this chain is a reproduction from illustrations and statues in 1490.

[fleet junco]

order of the swan

[verbal bramble]

Ooo! What were the precepts of the order? What was the order? I am deeply interested. Apologies for the late reply, Discord didn't ping me

[terse bronze]

1470-1480 Flanders, Leipzig, UB Rep. I 11b-1 and Rep. I 11b-1 - Valerius Maximus

[pastel fable]

Can we get a flamberge

Or the ability to flip over weapons to use the back end like on war hammers

The spiked bit

[terse bronze]

doesn't fit the timeperiod of the game

[pastel fable]

Damn

What about my other idea

[terse bronze]

yeah thatd be cool

been suggested a billion time i'm sure the devs saw it

[chrome rover]

thought you were gonna suggest the ability to do a mordhau

[pastel fable]

Mordhau?

[chrome rover]

thats what its called when you hit someone with the pommel, right?

[pastel fable]

Pommel strike ig

[pastel fable]

Not that

[terse bronze]

Mordhau / Mordschlag

i think it has another name too but i might be wrong

[pastel fable]

I meant like on the war hammer it has two sides

The blunt and the spike

[terse bronze]

this would be cool for all pollaxes not just the hammer one but yeah

[pastel fable]

Instead of beating someone’s head in I nail him with a spike

Yeah

Both

[pastel fable]

Hitting that wrong without gloves gotta suck

[lucid briar]

it was an order of knights inspired by the tale of the swan knight, their purpose was mainly to praise the virgin Mary and be charitable. It was started by Elector Frederick II of Brandenburg.

[lucid briar]

its surprisingly not that bad if you don't allow the blade to slip with proper technique. You would use this technique as an absolute last resort if you got caught fighting armored opponents while being unarmored yourself. Skallagrim made a great video on this subject!

[vocal vale]

swords require a slicing motion or a hitting you motion to function properly, you’ll only get a few knicks here and there if you grab it right, no matter how hard you hit with it

[robust tendon]

is skallagrim even reputable? i mold him in with pop history slop youtubers ngl

[vocal vale]

it would be pre tty inconvenient to try and switch your grip on it and accidentally slide your hand down it though

[robust tendon]

matt easton/scholagladiatoria seems better for weapons anyway

[lucid briar]

Skallagrim is reputable in my opinion he cites his sources and doesnt spew constant bs with made up sources. he does do alot of pop culture content because on youtube its what gets promoted by the algorithm. right now his videos are struggling to get 100k+ views unfortunately.

[lucid briar]

this is 100% true but Skallagrim makes content on more obscure weapons that make his videos interesting in my opinion.

[verbal bramble]

Not sure, but at the very least he's better than what Hollywood has to offer and... Whatever Shad is getting up to these days, I don't want to touch that guy with a 10 meter pole

[lucid briar]

lets not even mention him 💀

[verbal bramble]

Yeah, prob for the best

[next orchid]

Skallagrim is reputable in my opinion he cites his sources and doesnt spew constant bs with made up sources

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-does-he-know-gif-26833694

[fleet junco]

skallagrim

[lucid briar]

In general he isnt that terrible yes he's had some "issues" in the past but I prefer to focus on the positives.

[next orchid]

ive never seen him cite a source, and he is one of the many who keep saying "sword r bad lolol". u may find him entertaining, but he really isnt reputable for "history"

[lone osprey]

oh shit the history police are back

[next orchid]

yeah man, i think the guy with a bigass following who just says shit online isnt a reputable source

[dim mauve]

This is the problem with YouTube research, you end up not knowing what research is.

Citing sources is meaningless if those sources are erroneous

In general youtube is only useful if you have a passing interest in something, it's not suitable for anything more.

[lone osprey]

sure, you would never cite skallagrim lol. but he refers to his sources, shows pages of books on his videos, and does practical tests of his own. I don't think he spreads misinformation in videos where he is being serious. not saying he doesn't dish out heaps of slop but he also has nearly 400 videos on swords many of which are just him being an enthusiast

[lone osprey]

not necessarily. there are some decent lectures and one historian on youtube I particularly like is Allan Barton.

[dim mauve]

I've seen skallagrim cite videogame Wikipedias as sources.

[next orchid]

yeah like his "no one would ever EVER wear a coif over bare skin bro" video

then we had to deal with that nonsense for a good few months before people forgot

and i mean, come on, half the things are super easy to find. matt easton is especially guilty of this too

[next orchid]

videos of him "just being an enthusiast" is literally my point

and whether or not it is intentional, people do literally take him at face value

[lone osprey]

your point that he keeps saying swords are bad but is an enthusiast sword owner?

[next orchid]

what

do i need to elaborate on what exactly i meant

[dim mauve]

I'm interested to know what weapons he thinks make swords bad in comparison.

[next orchid]

muh stick...

[dim mauve]

The problem with saying spears are better than swords is it's like saying that one piece of cutlery is better than another for eating food.

It also depends on what spear we're talking about because there's a certain length and diameter of pole where spears very quickly become very different weapons.

[next orchid]

It's just a bad take when we literally hundreds of accounts and treatises that explain why the sword was important

So easy to find, I literally found them daily

[terse bronze]

We need sabaton to make a song about spears

[next orchid]

bro trve....

[terse bronze]

Call the song "King of Weapons"

[next orchid]

in like, 30 min to an hour too. genuinely the easiest shit ever and these people cant spend 30 min scrolling google books or some shit lol

[dim mauve]

Well people see that the spear was the most common weapon throughout history and take that to mean it was the best. Ignoring the fact that they were some of the easiest to make and long spears were particularly suited to line fights, which were the most common types of fights.

[next orchid]

i mean, depending on the period, statistically speaking a sword might be more common lol

the poke and prod model of combat is just outright mistaken anyways though

[dim mauve]

If you're in a line fight you'll generally want a spear, when the line eventually breaks you almost definitely want something that isn't a spear.

[terse bronze]

Shorten your spear

Boss mode activated

[dim mauve]

If you shorten your spear you're most likely done for

[next orchid]

A true man at arms shortens his lance many times, down even to the point, when he needs a dagger

[dim mauve]

Not because shortening spears is bad but if you're In a situation that calls for it then you're probably fucked

[next orchid]

I assume you mean in the middle of battle

[terse bronze]

Breaking the spear in half on my knee like a madlad

Dodging a few crossbow bolts in the process too btw

[next orchid]

Funny Anglo archers picking up broken spear points off the ground to fight with

[dim mauve]

Yea, in a 1v1 it's less of an issue.

[terse bronze]

Anglo archers being crackheads again

[dim mauve]

There isn't really a hierarchy of weapons, like every weapon has something that counters it.

[next orchid]

wdym in a 1v1

in a 1v1 unless its prepared before hand you arent shortening your spear in the middle of the fight lol

[terse bronze]

On nuketown

[next orchid]

the almogavars would break their spears in half to fight at close quarters

[dim mauve]

You can, it's not hard.

[next orchid]

my headcanon is that is where the anglo-french men at arms got that from 🙂

[next orchid]

maybe if ur opponent is a gentleman lol

[terse bronze]

Many honor such knoghthood

[next orchid]

truth

unless by shorten you mean the technical word

[dim mauve]

By shorten I mean hold the spear closer to the point

[next orchid]

oh so u do lol

[terse bronze]

Hack the wood with your sword and make your commander foam at the mouth because you just destroyed 5 swords this week doing that kind of shit

[next orchid]

truth

ur captain is just gonna give you pig stickers

actually in the 14th c. thats what they called estocs

in french

epais or something

[dim mauve]

Also when people compare weapons they often leave out important factors of the time like armour, the existence of armour is a much bigger issue for a spearman than it is for a swordsman.

[terse bronze]

Espee?

[next orchid]

nah its an old french word

its related to espeiu

espieu

[terse bronze]

Épais means broad, large

Ohhhhh espieu

Idk

[next orchid]

yeah i cant find it but its used in a bunch of the 2nd half of the 14th c. works

to refer to estocs

[terse bronze]

The stickler

[dim mauve]

Also I say spears are suited to line fights but it's important to consider how much less you can maneuver a spear in a line fight, often the spear will be completely sandwiched

Or maybe thrown to the floor/smashed to pieces by something like a Billhook.

[next orchid]

tbh i wouldnt even say suited to formation fighting, but just suited to fighting in the broad sense

when there is less space, then shorter weapons become more advantageous

although swords were still occasionally/often "primary" weapons depending on the date, region, etc

but i mean we have the texts to know why swords might be used. like Auray (1364), Najera (1367), Chiset (1373), Aljubarrota (1385), Verneuil (1424), Brouwershaven (1426) for the men at arms alone show that guys came to close quarters, whether by chance (Najera) or on purpose (Chiset)

and obviously cavalry especially came to close quarters a lot

[dim mauve]

Nowhere near as effective outside of formations. At least for long spears. short spears are completely different weapons in their usage so I consider them very much distinct from longer spears

Short spears I feel are much closer to swords when it comes to the general role they play, 7foot spears are very fast and very offensive, you can out-maneuver basically anything with them. Add only like one or two feet to the length and increase the diameter and they become cumbersome and much more defensive.

[next orchid]

Nah, most fencers just suck with spears. Even pikes, as per the fencing masters, are great for duels. And when one is fighting loosely, by nature, they are almost completely unconstrained in their movement

[dim mauve]

It doesn't matter how unconstrained you are. I'm 6'5 and notorious for being able to use a 9foot spear even in extremely close quarters, but nothing will change the fact that long spear weighs far more than a short spear does.

[next orchid]

Longer spears were usually tapered, and a lot of guys didn't hold them by the complete end

But I do think it is just a matter of skill, since most hemaists just aren't that good with spears in the first place, and the fencing masters wrote that pikes still hold the advantage in spite of their relative clumsiness

[dim mauve]

It has nothing todo with skill, I'm good enough with a long spear that I can very easily use it against basically anything, that doesn't mean I think it's good for all of those purposes.

A long spear simply won't move as fast as a short spear will.

You have to realise how much heavier spears get when you increase the diameter of the shaft.

My 9foot spear has to be about 3 times as heavy as my 7foot spear.

[next orchid]

the diameter shouldnt be increasing

[dim mauve]

It very much should, if nothing else you need the weight with longer spears or else everyone else will be able to easily overpower your weapon.
Diameter has to increase with length or else the spear becomes extremely easy to break.

[next orchid]

"The Pikes arm'd at the Points with Lozange heads, if the cheeks, or sides of the Pikes are not armed with thin Plates of Iron four Foot deep, are very apt to be broken off near the Heads, if the Push be vigorous, and the Resistance considerable: Nor is this all; for unless the Pikes be armed with those thin Iron Plates, they are easily cut off with sharp Swords, for the Pike, especially toward the end, is carried tapering, to poise it the better, and thereby renders it the more flippent for those who use it..."
for example

[next orchid]

the risk of being overpowered was a necessity to move the weapon

modern hafts in general tend to be thicker

[dim mauve]

You're the one holding it with your hands, you can afford for it to be heavy, if the shaft is light then someone else can easily manipulate your spear with their own weapon.

[next orchid]

just dont allow your weapon to be manipulated, which is easier to do when it is light

[dim mauve]

One of the big advantages of long spears that short spears utterly lack is being able to control weapons and not be controlled by other people.

[dim mauve]

It's absolutely not, swing a heavy weapon into a light weapon and the heavy weapon will always win.

[next orchid]

the light weapon is being used by someone who can move their arms. yes, heavier weapons can control the light weapon, but the light weapon can just not get in their scenario in the first place; and since the pike only truly offends with the point, that is probably the way you ought to be using it

the same theory goes for rapier vs broadsword etc

most hemaists dont actually move their spears much though

[dim mauve]

Which is why a short spear has to be used very differently than a long spear. Short spears are at a ludicrous disadvantage against longer heavier spears.

Like I said, it starts to act alot more like a sword

[next orchid]

the pike has a lot of momentum even when the haft is not thicker, yes

although im not sure why the piker would allow his weapon to be overtaken in the bind by someone with a short weapon

and against a piker with a heavy pike, he (the man with the swift weapon) probably would have, in my opinion, the advantage

[next orchid]

not that this couldnt happen, obviously it can

but since your weak is so long, im kind of doubting that the weight is actually advantageous anyways

[dim mauve]

Look man I've spent alot of time using both, enough to say that In a fight against a long spear and a short spear, the long spear has the advantage by far, mainly due to the weight.

I've straight up disarmed shorter spears many times.

[next orchid]

the long spear should have the advantage by reach alone. even with a thinner haft it will have more momentum in the thrust and a quicker point with the beat

[dim mauve]

If a long spear has a light shaft then a swordsman could easily bat it out the way.

[next orchid]

if it is heavy, he is still pushing against your weak

[dim mauve]

The reach is an advantage, the weight is the biggest advantage

[next orchid]

with a light shaft, you just dont let your weapon get beat

[dim mauve]

This is easy to say if you've never used these weapons.

I could use my long spear to whack a short spear of yours straight to the floor or even out of your hands completely, there's really nothing you can do about it other than evading.

[next orchid]

no its easy to say when its literally what the fencing masters say. theres no reason why you should be contesting the bind + the weapons were tapered and not made thicker, and with a swift point you can avoid having your point beat off line with more ease in the first place

also i have half the mind to say you might be able to wack a short spear even with a lighter haft

[dim mauve]

In a short spear vs long spear fight the short spear user has to be quick and on the offensive, you have to use the lighter spear like a sword. Hell alot of the time when I've beaten long spears with a short spear it's because I let go with one hand and grab their spear and then run in and jab them.

[next orchid]

im not arguing against that

but hemaists with spears suck at offending with the point (which means the heavier weapon has the advantage) and also suck at defending against spear thrusts (which means a weapon doesnt need to be so swift)

90% of hemaists ive seen just stab with maybe a little defense, a lot just rush to the dagger

(because they suck with the spear)

[foggy zodiac]

did they remove the requirements for the references to be specifically in the england-france-hre area
cause it feels like there were some restrictions about the area before

[dim mauve]

At the end of the day your interpretation of old texts does not grant you a higher understanding of what a weapon is capable of than actually using them. The differences I'm pointing out are very immediately obvious the moment you use these weapons.

Also you keep bringing up pikes, neither long or short spears in this context are pikes.

[dim mauve]

Again I'm specifically known for being annoyingly good with a long spear in extremely short distances, like handshake distances.

[next orchid]

the swiss used 10 foot long pikes. thick shafts ive never seen very much, except for the byzantines who had the thick shafts to face cataphracts (maybe)
not using the old texts means you get situations where people do nothing but lunge from the low guard, never pass, and maybe a third of all of them know how to use their legs/hips. im not saying your experience is irrelevant, but the grosso modo "just wack their point" could only be as dominant as you say when the opponent is incapable of moving their point very much, which most hemaists with spears are almost incapable of doing. although against a short spear, i would think it wouldnt matter if you beat their weapon offline (not really sure why you would feel the need to in the first place but idk) with the lighter 9 foot haft or a heavier one, the speed of the point is so great that you get a lot of force

[dim mauve]

Also Im not talking about hema, I'm talking about full contact or partial contact armoured fighting.

[next orchid]

then the problems only get worse imo

i know rushing to dagger especially gets worse

[dim mauve]

Pikes were longer and used differently than long spears, long spear in this context is longer than a short spear but not long enough to be a like. Pikes are usually around 10-20feet long.

[next orchid]

since no one can hardly offend with the point of their spears (and people with pollaxes like to just bash, even though all the sources say to use the point primarily, and threaten with the strike)

[dim mauve]

Diameter doesn't need to increase with length past 10feet or it woild become impossibly heavy

I'm specifically talking about less than ten foot long spears.

[next orchid]

if it doesnt need to increase past 10 feet then im not sure why it would need to increase below 10 feet. have you tried a thinner haft? only reason why you wouldnt is that them breaking can maybe become dangerous (but then i would just say dont taper). not sure what thickness oskar uses

[dim mauve]

It's because of control, if a longer spear has a thinner shaft it becomes a directly worse weapon.

And because after ten feet it becomes a different weapon again.

You want it to be heavier because generally you loose control with added length, the weight makes up for that.

The longer the weapon is the less leverage you'll have over your opponents weapon

Both spears in that photo are meant for very different uses.

Spear on the left has terrifying thrusts compared to the right one, right hand spear is much more swingy and lightning fast.

I could possibly sweep you off of your legs with the left one, not with the right one.

[next orchid]

it definitely doesnt become a worse weapon for the same reason a 7 foot long spear with a normal haft doesnt become a worse weapon against a 5 foot long spear. why are would someone contest the bind against a weapon with superior leverage? its easier to be put in that position in the first place with a weapon that is almost 3x heavier than otherwise. if they are moving their spear, and not just throwing their arms forward to thrust from the short guard, then i see no reason why a thinner shaft would be so detrimental as you suppose. if a 10 foot pike is held a foot or two away from the heel, it does not become a weapon whose point is easily thrown off line by a sneeze if the wielder does not allow their weapon to be bullied (which if they are actively fencing, they wouldnt).

[dim mauve]

You've really got to dual or fight with these weapons to understand what I'm saying, there are many factors more inherent to different lengths of spear that determine how it's best used.

I could easily push you back by placing a single finger near the top center of your ribcage and pushing, absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it nomatter how strong you are. Why is this relevant? Because anyone who hasn't tried it or had it tried on them will think it's bullshit, and likely not really understand the physics behind it.

[verbal bramble]

What the fuck happened here?

[next orchid]

if your ultra heavy spear is disadvantageous in a duel because its so cumbersome, then i dont see why it is superior to a weapon to a weapon of the same length that wouldnt be nearly as cumbersome (and which would hold the advantage in a duel against a shorter weapon). and if someone cannot use the benefit of a light weapon, and allows themselves to be bullied, that is not the fault of the weapon being light and it doesnt mean a 3x as heavy weapon is the solution to their problems (nor was it the solution historically). if a 10 foot pike can be light (a couple of cm thick), then why isnt it bullied by a 9 foot spear? why isnt a 7 foot spear bullied by a 5 foot spear? again, if the weapon is bad for duels because its cumbersome, then simply dont have it be so cumbersome

[dim mauve]

It's not an ultra heavy spear, it's directly better than the shorter spear in the situations it's made for.

Which is line fights.

Short spear isn't made for line fights.

[next orchid]

how thick is the haft? 5 cm?

[dim mauve]

Hell I did an arming of the knight demonstration at a festival recently, I was the knight being armed and I was given both a long spear and a short spear, as they would transport both for different situations, at least in the earlier medieval period.

[next orchid]

they did also just chop their spears down to 5 feet long

[dim mauve]

Five feet long is like two feet shorter than my shortest spear

[dim mauve]

No, long spear is like 3.4cm and short spear is like 2.8cm

[next orchid]

yes, they liked their tiny spears

well, until they took up the 5 feet long pollaxes

[dim mauve]

Actually I'm not sure the long spear is that thick

3.3 maybe 3.4 for the long spear

3.4cm over 2.8 cm might not seem like much but add two feet to the length and work out how much the volume of the wood has actually increased.

[next orchid]

where do you grip it? the heel?

[dim mauve]

I use the long spear many different ways, at the back, in the middle, depends what I'm fighting.

[next orchid]

then idk why u find it bad for dueling

[dim mauve]

It's simply not made for dualing, at least not compared to how good it is in other contexts.

You can be an amazing spearman in a dual. But you could also be an amazing swordsman and an amazing swordsman will likely win.

[next orchid]

"Each man at arms carried his spear right before him, cut down to the length of five feet; an axe, sharp, strong and well steeled, with a short handle, was at his side, or hung from his neck."

"WHEN the battalions of the king of France were drawn up, and each lord posted under his proper banner, and informed how they were to act, it was ordered, that all those who were armed with lances should shorten them to the length of five feet, that they might be the more manageable, and that every one should take off his spurs."

"He advanced with his men on foot, to meet the enemy, who were formed in close order with their pikes, shortened to five feet, planted out before them."

"They cut their lances to five feet in length, and ordered their servants to carry their spurs to the slope of the hill, where they were to fix them with the rowels uppermost; so that their enemies might not ascend the hill at their ease."

"Having dismounted his men, he caused their lances to be shortened to the length of five feet, and placed his pennon before him, which had his arms, ermine, three humets in pale gules."

"When they had thus for some time kept them in check, their grand battalion, fresh and untouched, advanced by a secret road round the hill, and being in close order like a brush, with their lances cut down to six feet or thereabouts, with loud cries, and a thorough good will, fell upon the French army."

(auray, poitiers, calais, st valery, champagne, brignais i think, via froissart)

[next orchid]

yes i agree, especially in an armored context, but the longer weapon should still hold the advantage even when in armor

[dim mauve]

5foot spear is way better for duals

[next orchid]

nah these guys were cutting them down for mass assaults

the french did so at azincourt too (no length given) with wauvrin, who was part of the french force i think, saying they did so to make the spears stiffer

[dim mauve]

Okay put it this way, I trained with long spear for the best part of a year before I got got try short spear, I was good with a long spear but I I brutalised people in 1v1s with the short spear basically immediately, short spears are so much more scary in 1v1s against anything that doesn't outrage and overpower it.

A long spear that's just as light as a short spear could be easily parried by the short spear since it has more leverage

[next orchid]

The only way that can happen consistently if they are allowing themselves to be contested in the bind. I'm not sure how you get in that position with 2 feet of extra reach though. Just refuse the bind, move your point when he attempts to beat it, and don't be hasty. Ur 6'5" and presumably strong and I hope lean enough to maneuver, with a 9 foot spear that is nimble you should be literally untouchable

[ancient pivot]

The spork

[dim mauve]

Yea, I pretty much am, hence why Im so hard to beat with a long spear, it's literally the weapon im best with.

[pastel fable]

Flails could be cool

Like if you use it wrong you would hit yourself

But it could hit hard

[dim mauve]

Those fails didn't exist in any time period close to medieval.

[pastel fable]

Fuck

[dim mauve]

This is what they looked like, what you're thinking of is from the imagination of victorians.

[pastel fable]

Still

[robust tendon]

funny cause this depiction isn't even medieval

though ofc they did look like that

[robust tendon]

Not necessarily

These are all early 15th century iirc

[verbal bramble]

By Paulus Hector Mair, I would argue that considering his work was mostly recreating older texts I would pass the weapons as valid (obviously not the clothes, tho)

[robust tendon]

weird fantasy-ism in some cases i think, but the first one here is from a manuscript by Konrad Kyeser called the bellifortis which depicts various weapons/engines of war and has no reason to be fantasized that I see

[noble bear]

This "the newgens today… 🥀" is peak

1620s tho

[robust tendon]

1100-1150, italy

[terse bronze]

italian

[robust tendon]

guhh

[halcyon nova]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1211422296795779204/1240734815242948608/giphy.gif

[dim mauve]

See again.

[robust tendon]

hmmm

I still think the amount of depictions we have, and how they appear across several different centuries, means they were probably a real thing and not fantastical/victorian

one handed war flails, anyway

two handed threshing/'peasant' flails were certainly real

[dim mauve]

You only see them depicted in manuscripts like that. Unlike most known medieval weapons they are never described nor are there any remains of them.

At best I think the flail as it's most commonly depicted was at most like a failed experimental weapon that never really actually saw any use.

And from what I read the only reason the flails we do know about existed is because they're modified farming equipment.

[robust tendon]

maybe, I don't have any more evidence that I know of that supports the existence of them so i suppose we're at an impasse

[dim mauve]

They may very well have existed, in my mind I feel like it's something at least one person tried to make at some point.

Surely somebody would have tried to make itm

[fast pagoda]

either way we need threshing flails in the game, though they would probably be hard to do with the physics

[verbal bramble]

Did mancatchers/catchpoles exist at any point during the 15th Century? Or were they something that existed only on the 17th century or around that time?

[robust tendon]

I don't think so, I've never seen any

[fast pagoda]

here is a in-period depiction as well showing that they are certainly used in fencing at the time of the game. it's a page from Talhoffer's Berlin Treatise MS 78.A.15 (written sometime around the mid to late 1450s I think)

[next orchid]

check out "Fantastic Flails and Where to Find Them: The Body of Evidence for the Existence of Flails in the Early and High Medieval Eras in Western, Central, and Southern Europe"

they were used in the tournament melees in the 13th and 14th c. at least

hard to know if they (i mean the more "typical" type) were military weapons in western europe

[robust tendon]

They are also used in war, not just fencing

they seem more or less universal for the medieval period and probably later as well. Whether they were always used as weapons is a different story, though I would think they were always used for this purpose as well given how they are perfectly functional both in and out of battle, but threshing flails are seen throughout the medieval period

[fast pagoda]

yes but in terms of adding them to half sword, only fencing matters, because it is a fencing environment. I just wanted to contextualize it from a proper in-period source rather than a 16th century one

only thing I've heard of them being used militarily is the hussite wars, but I don't have a source for that or anything I just remember reading it. I would say though that specifically is what I would call a special case

honestly though I don't have much access to manuscripts to check up on it anyways, and any that I might would be in a language I can't read

[robust tendon]

yeah that's the most well-known usage of these, but i don't see a reason why this would not be done in other similar cases

[fast pagoda]

yea there's probably lots of other wars that had similar use, since they can be converted easily from the thresher and just out of basic necessity

[robust tendon]

it also appears in other martial contexts in ms iirc

[fast pagoda]

just don't know of any specifics though

[next orchid]

they were being used by night-watchmen in the 17th c.

[next orchid]

peasants got involved in minor skirmishes a lot so i wouldnt be surprised

[obsidian aurora]

personal opinion, medieval armor looks way better than modern armor

[fast pagoda]

ys, a lot less focus on aesthetics now though in general

like there's no equivalent of the king's armor nowadays, they don't have gold threaded kevlar or something lol

[robust tendon]

maybe they should tho

[robust tendon]

two handed 'threshing flails'?

[next orchid]

yeah with spikes

[restive geyser]

There is two types of flails depending on Country of origin and the reason of its existence

@robust tendon

Military flails were basically a wooden stick, with a chain and the spikey ball at the end of x chain. Aka the basic flail we see in fantasy and video games

The flail often used for fencing was the wooden stick with the wooden end that was basically a spikey wooden...club basically

Country of origin matters for this particularly because they only allow weapons from France, Italy, Britian, Germany and I think Hungaria and also I think Switzerland

Military flails and the "fencing flails" mostly came from Italy and older Military flails came from the middle east

[next orchid]

If your grace sees that one comes at you with a Flail, at night, and will strike at you, (how it then is occasionally in use at the Universities, when one goes from the table, and from the guards will be attacked, if often one has previously done something to the guards, and another comes, because of the need to pay for what the other has wrought) then whip your cloak over your left arm, and run under his Flail with great power, so that one then will strike in over you, be mindful of his power your grace, then wrench the flail from his hands, for the protection of your life and limb.

[lone osprey]

for the non-threshing flails they might be only depicted here because they have old fashioned and foreign connotations, but there's one depicted by Schonguaer in 1480 and possibly (hard to tell it's so dark and blurry) this 1484 painting

I definitely hope they add threshing flail for lower tier

[fast pagoda]

In terms of the Schongauer it is very confusing, ‘cause yeah it’s possible it’s there to make it feel archaic, but at the same time right behind Christ there’s a guy in a visored bascinet much like a hounskull, and a couple later polearms that match the period it was engraved by (quite common for artists to do when drawing/engraving older scenes), so it conflicts to feel archaic while feeling so present day.
Edit: read back your post and realized you said foreign connotations too, that is possible since we see a lot of the middle eastern style here, specifically of the ones dragging Jesus

Since it’s so out in the open, to the point that it’s actually being shown wrapping around that smug guy, I think it definitely had some sort of symbolism though, of what exactly I don’t know.

[dim mauve]

Don't get me wrong I hope flails did exist because then I'd have an excuse to have the flail that my reenactment group is giving away.

[lone osprey]

yeah I agree with your view on them too and they seem rare but Im grasping at straws because I think they would be fun to see with this game's physics

[dim mauve]

I mean hell they could add a setting to turn questionable weapons on or off just for the hell of it. Not saying they should because it's extra work, but like, if I was making halfsword I'd probably do it.

[fast pagoda]

if they at least add in threshing flails then someone could probably just mod in one of those one handers, though it would require a couple modding capabilities we haven’t exactly figured out yet

Slapping down on the commoner boss with a thresher would be amazing

[dim mauve]

I do think I'd personally find any excuse to put flails in a game around physics, they're meant for each other, even if flails have questionable authenticity

[robust tendon]

in my view, because they're depicted so often and across several centuries, it's evidence enough for one handed war flails. but it's conjecture obviously

and it's not exactly an unusable or obvious fantasy weapon, it just has modern connotations as fantasy when to medieval people it may not be

[lone osprey]

there's also this in the hafted weapons book by john waldman but Id take it with a grain of salt like everything else

[warm kraken]

yo devs take notes, all the armor pieces rn look like mirror polished artworks

[warm kraken]

pretty sure well polished didnt mean walking mirror

[warm kraken]

this is cosplay

[vocal vale]

“and he looks in a mirror”

[warm kraken]

i dont think medieval knights had access to polishing compound and buffing wheels

okay okay fine

i didnt read this far into it

[fast pagoda]

Even Romans had access to metal polishing, so yea

Sure not the same as today but it worked

[terse bronze]

they absolutely did

Armour polished, lances shapened!
1450-1455, the Low Countries, KBR 9243 - Chroniques de Hainaut

This source seems to be often overlooked by modern students of medieval military technology, yet it is very important. The scene shows the refurbishment of arms in field conditions: the cuirasses are polished, and the lance heads are sharpened. The latter is performed in two ways - on a large grindstone set on a table, and on a smaller grindstone held in hands.

It would appear as if the armour polishing is done by a professional polisher (it was a distinct occupation back in the day) - we see a soldier waiting to pass his helmet on for the treatment, after the polisher will be done with the cuirass. Note how the cuirass is secure onto the bench with straps.

In contrast, it looks like lance sharpening was a self-service job, as we see fully armed knights engaged at that activity. The military camps must have had such armour maintenance points, where anyone could polish or sharpen, or repair some items when needed.

neat little pic

[white fulcrum]

the quality of the model here should be a massive red flag

[slender bramble]

Looks weird

[weak halo]

U look weird

[magic furnace]

Bruh

[fleet junco]

Brah

[terse sorrel]

“All the armor pieces look like mirror polished artworks”

[weak halo]

What if Willie's head was mirror polished artwork?

[terse sorrel]

You say that as if it isn’t!

[weak halo]

Willie's head is beautiful, but not nearly as reflective as it could be

[silver heart]

to each their own

[timber smelt]

then why did you act more knowledgeable than the developers?

[fleet junco]

because we must not research before posting

[robust tendon]

hatred

[foggy zodiac]

That helmet looks like it's locked the fuck in

[flint girder]

https://tenor.com/view/alien-gif-10227561094184705017

[fast pagoda]

Maybe possible. Now I can’t read German, but I do understand some of the names of the museums listed here to have flails, in this particular case one-handed ones. However, I don’t know if they still have em, this book if from like 1880 something if I remember correctly

One sec I’ll send the illustrations too so you can see the flails these are numbered by

The only museum I’ve checked is Prague (not in person just tried searching it up) which didn’t seem to come up with any specific results of still having one, but I can check the others

If anyone here can read German perhaps they could shed some light on this

I tried searching for a bibliography in this book but I didn’t see anything strikingly similar without being able to read it

[next orchid]

the fully polished steel looks ass so they should tone it down though

[next orchid]

they were used in tournament melees since the 13th c. so theres clearly an issue in discerning whether or not they were actually used in war

one handed flails were used elsewhere though

like in near and far asia

[lost zealot]

heya lads, ive been working on this armor for a game concept design. what did yall think is it good enough ?

or do i need to add something to it ?

[lost zealot]

yo fencer, whatcha think ?

[turbid shadow]

I do like it a lot

really awesome

[lost zealot]

is there anything i should add lad ?

[turbid shadow]

seems perfectly fine to me

[lost zealot]

olright ! thank you lad, have a nice day

[turbid shadow]

you too m8

could be now if ya want

[lost zealot]

hmm maybe tomorrow, my phone's kinda low battery

[turbid shadow]

shoot me a dm when your ready

[lost zealot]

yeah, this duel gonna be fire

[turbid shadow]

perhaps

[fleet junco]

blooodddyyy baaastaarrdddddhdbf

[torpid ridge]

Blood Bastards (the better version)

[white fulcrum]

bb hre armour if it was above mediocre quality

really wish the game was given more love and care because it has such a good art style and direction but the first two regions suffer from such neglect of quality

[lost zealot]

russia and japan were the only good ones :(

[white fulcrum]

yeah those ones were really really good

tsardom and sengoku japan brought some great quality stuff

[lost zealot]

also dont forget the ranked items

[white fulcrum]

oh for sure

some of the best

[lost zealot]

personally i loved the greenwich armor

[white fulcrum]

i think that was @turbid shadow's go to outfit

it's peak

[lost zealot]

yeah fr fr

[lost zealot]

so how long have ye been playing this game ?

[turbid shadow]

100% tho bb didn’t give it much justice as I hoped it would

[lost zealot]

ive also posted this to tibith's twitter, since thats the only place he was active apart from his website, is that a good idea ?