references♥_1450-1470

[turbid shadow]

this channel was made for the sole purpose of helping ivan [half sword art director] with references that are useful

[sullen charm]

I have tons of helmet references, is it ok if I send them as archive?

[vocal vale]

also too late for the game

[sullen charm]

You mean in terms of historical period?

or game is already filled with concepts?

first one is already in game, I know, but what about chairman curtain?

the bottom left one is already in game

😅

Let not thy hand be heavy on me

[turbid shadow]

yes half sword is trying to be historically accurate and is set around the 1450-1480

Also the stuff you’ve sent is either bad replicas or just stuff that’s not fit at all

[sullen charm]

these one's I noticed

I just also thought that since ancient times there were unique weapons or armors, bacause some people liked to decorate them or order custom equipment

for example, when I was looking for the length of the long sword, numbers were in a wide range, it only means that there were a lot of swords of this category which is very broad starting from arming sword right to the beginning of two handed swords

And so I thought that armor can vary too

[sullen charm]

I can see, this is a time period of 30 years, not much can fit into this

I like this game and don't think that with my lack of knowledge I can make a good contribution with references or ideas

[tired pasture]

these either dont fit with the timedeame or are buhurt/crappy repros

[tired pasture]

this is not real

[tired pasture]

this kettle is outdated

dont use google for reference images

[hallow fiber]

Are you certain it might very well be real, there are several early 17th century burgonets that look quite similar.

That said there is something quite odd about that one I have to admit, especially at the back on the neck.

[next orchid]

yeah its a known fake

[tired pasture]

neva post again

[terse bronze]

your reference posting rights have been REVOKED

[vocal vale]

lot can be learned here, friend !

[vocal vale]

the bottom right is WIP but i don’t know when it’s from and it might have been scrapped because of the new dating

i really love it and hope it makes it in

[terse bronze]

Feel like the real bottom right barbute might be a fake (I mean the real artefact not that repro)

[tired pasture]

its for people with big noses

[humble monolith]

Yea i know

[terse bronze]

it's also fantasy

[vocal vale]

yeah i know but the inspiration is later

[bright token]

One of my favourite German gothic armour, this one is made by Dragon Armourie and is based on a bronze statue of Otto IV of Henneberg-Romhild. Some parts of of my OC’s armour is based on this armour too lol

I love the elbow guards this armour have

[pastel badger]

The cock pouch on that thing is mint

[vocal vale]

thats just pants lol

[pastel badger]

I still want a cock pouch in Half Sword lmao

[vocal vale]

those are in game

they are called pants

[pastel badger]

Also when is the blood and gore going to return

[vocal vale]

after september

[pastel badger]

Ah ok

I'm going to bed now I have work at 8

Night

[terse bronze]

cock pouch

full art, don't fit the game btw

[frail burrow]

"Bro I need a handkerchief, you got one?"

"Yeah bro, just let me reach in my cock pouch real quick."

[terse bronze]

reddit meme

[tired pasture]

updooted

[lost zealot]

an armour belonging to Ulrich IX von Matsch. (Circa 1450)

[tired pasture]

i love rhe matsch family

[toxic breach]

von Willie

[fleet junco]

I like tge couters so i post here

[tired pasture]

reinforced couter freak

[gloomy kettle]

are those chestplates with cloth over them? or something else? i see them all the time and i never know what they are

[latent drift]

tabard im preety sure

[sullen charm]

yes

probably

[next orchid]

Coat or jacket in English, hoqueton in French by this point, maybe jupon as a word but I think that is too late as this looks like a 1450s source

May also be attempting to portray an archaic style as well, don't know the manuscript though

[dense phoenix]

.

[vocal vale]

love me big ulrich

[vocal vale]

from the 1300s to about the third quarter of the 1400s people often used textile or coats over their armor to show their allegiance (if you were part of a retinue) or their own heraldry, there were a lot of different manners but the most popular i’ve seen in the 1400s is the “livery coat” which is similar to a tabard

the manuscript is french so it’d likely be called a hoqueton

quite a few cool coats show up throughout

[gloomy kettle]

thanks for the indepth explanation

[vocal vale]

if you'd like i can send you a bunch of over-armor coats off the top of my head

well the picture sources wouldnt be off the top of my head but you get the idea

[lost zealot]

yuh uh

[lost zealot]

Von Willus Matsch

[gloomy kettle]

the images thou didst send aforehand are fair, and mine curiosity hath been sated

[vocal vale]

On baby bruh 🤣🤣

[lone osprey]

hey does anyone know if there are any costume variations in the game that have this kind of riding gown over the armour?
and also are there any weapon variations with sword + hand pavese?

and if not which channel can I suggest them

[lone topaz]

reenactor from the White Eagle event in Kalemegdan

a great big blob of them

[terse bronze]

Out of period and ugly

[ancient forge]

ain't you just a ray of sunshine

[terse bronze]

I mean you gotta call a cat, a cat

That top Armor is attrocious

[haughty creek]

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure those types of elbows are out of date with the rest of the armor

Bascinets with bevors, not to be mistaken with great bascients, only show up in a few French manuscripts in 1410

[hallow fiber]

The angle and curvature for the two eye slits/sight is too extreme compared to actual houndskulls, some do have this lower tilt where the outer edges are lower than the inner ones but on that replica it is way too pronounced.

[terse bronze]

I love how yall are nitpicking details when the whole set is just poorly made all around

[hallow fiber]

It is poorly made because each detail is somewhat off.

The visor is too wide, the arm harness not fitted enough and the proportions are sloppy.

[terse bronze]

And the quality is just Indian made garbage

[hallow fiber]

Which store is selling that great bascinet?

[gloomy kettle]

if its period accurate, the feedback channel

[lone topaz]

who knows?

he came to the event from Turkey as far as i can tell

or another country

he certainly didint speak the local language

there was 20 countries in attendance

[fleet junco]

I like this armor so i post it here

[vocal vale]

whoa thats cool

also no we currently dont have any cloth over armor stuff

there are sword and hand pavise things

[vocal vale]

battle of san romano

single leg harness

[fleet junco]

This san romano guy did all of this?

[vocal vale]

Grrr

paolo uccello

[lost zealot]

what is that armor piece on his chin called ?

the one with the flower shape

[tired pasture]

rondel

[lost zealot]

ah, alright

does it serve the same purpose like a bevor would ?

[fleet junco]

Yeah

But it just

Protects the front chin

[lost zealot]

period accurate ?

[fleet junco]

Yeah, there are some artwork of it in one of the modes in game

[lost zealot]

the playtest ?

[lost zealot]

cool

[fleet junco]

👍

[lost zealot]

good stuff

[minor comet]

Yo guys what are those very very long medieval paintings called

[tired pasture]

wdym

there are a lot of long forms of art

[minor comet]

I saw a painting in the mordhau server a few months ago and it was some medieval painting that was extremely long in width

[tired pasture]

frescoes manuscripts and tapestries

woodcuts too

[hallow fiber]

I think in that very context the term manuscript is misused.

[tired pasture]

there isnt much context

dude said something about mordhau and medieval art

so that doesnt give me anything to work off of so i just dumped that

[terse bronze]

Any of you know about this one medieval art with that dude with the helmet?

[tired pasture]

…yeeeaaaah

[ancient pivot]

What an odd kit

[upper lintel]

when will this be added?

[humble pagoda]

Does anyone have references of early bascinets in the 1300's?

[weak halo]

something like this?

[humble pagoda]

Yes!

[weak halo]

I'd suggest to go on pinterest and look up examples of bascinets worn with greathelms on funeral effigies and such

[terse bronze]

That's not early tho

[terse bronze]

And iicr neither is this one

[weak halo]

damn

I'm more knowledgeable in late 14th/early 15th stuff

[weak halo]

didn't bascinets start out shorter and rounder?

[terse bronze]

Yeah but i think that relief was made in the later par of the century

I'm on phone so I can't check

Speaking from memory

There's a bascinet from the 1330s at the MET that has a similar shape tho

You Can find it easily

[terse bronze]

What's odd about it?

[vocal vale]

probably the colors and seemingly only one armpit voider

[terse bronze]

I like the colors

[vocal vale]

i do too they're just kind of jarring to see

green and purple are very polarizing and i dont usually see purple in kits

also it's got red straps

which i agree makes it look cooler but still its kinda jarring

[soft mantle]

wait so im guessing from what ive seen hs takes place in the 13th century?

[weak halo]

No, Half Sword takes place in the mid/late 15th century

[minor comet]

https://youtu.be/RSNcZgA01-w

no idea how accurate the "late 15th century" part is

[terse bronze]

1460-80

[tight sandal]

plat armor were nowhere near existing in the 13th century

but it's peak medieval era

with the great helms and stuff

[terse bronze]

1270-1350 is peak greathelm era

Anyway, short pollaxe!

[minor comet]

i think that'd be considered a type of warhammer

[terse bronze]

you think wrong

forgot what the smith based it on tho ..

but the dude in the tapestry had a banger red armor with such short pollaxe hanging on his side

[next orchid]

half hacque my beloved

[vocal vale]

Real

[tired pasture]

plate armor was beginning to develop in the 13th century

[tight sandal]

that's....that's chain mail

[tired pasture]

the grieves

fucking blind ass

[vocal vale]

lol

[tight sandal]

that sh*t on the leg?

[vocal vale]

that's plate yeah

[tight sandal]

wow, big fuck*ng thing

might as well say what he has in his head is plate too, would mean we always had plate

[tired pasture]

i had german miniatures with rondels laced to the haubergeon on the elbows but i lost that

[tired pasture]

making up shit cuz you cant accept your wrong

https://tenor.com/view/megosztható-horse-raining-downpour-gif-13970826

[tight sandal]

plate armor is plate armor

[vocal vale]

and he is wearing two plates! one on each leg, even!

[tight sandal]

that's plate for the legs, i meant plate armor

[vocal vale]

[tired pasture]

thats plate armor buddy

[tired pasture]

maille*

[tight sandal]

alright, where's the metal sheet

[tired pasture]

in the coat of plates

BLAGH!!!!!!!

[tight sandal]

doesnt plate armor block stabbing, you stab through that

[tired pasture]

😭

what are you on about

[tight sandal]

you said that's plate armor

[tired pasture]

plate armor is NOT defined by the ability to deflect stabs

[tight sandal]

i see a coat

[tired pasture]

dude just admit youre wrong 😭

[vocal vale]

its called... a coat of plates....

[tight sandal]

oh yea

i thought you were referring to the chain ring links

[tired pasture]

thats such bs

i literally gave you an image

[tight sandal]

and calling it plate armor

[tight sandal]

yea

i thought you were talking about that

and the thing he's wearing for the head

in that image it looks like he's just wearing some fabric like any 13th century knight

[tight sandal]

but this is easily visual

[tight sandal]

ye that

[terse bronze]

the armor made out of plate.. on the legs, armored with plates, plate armor

I got what you mean but the backpedalling was crazy

[tight sandal]

i think i should've said full suit of plate armor from the start

[terse bronze]

yeah well there's also a shorter word for that

plate harness

instead of "full suit of plate armor"

just sayin

[tight sandal]

im not an english speaker, i thought harness meant plate of sturdy object

cuz i've seen people say ''he was in full harness'', i dont think they spoke english either then

[terse bronze]

harness english, harnais french, harnisch german

harness just essentially means "suit of [...]" in armor context

[tight sandal]

ah i understand

[terse bronze]

it's just a better term all around imo

no reasons not to use it

[vocal vale]

also, sometimes "arm harness" or "leg harness" is used for, yknow, the arms and legs separately !

[tight sandal]

so rephrasing that, full harness was nowhere near existence in the 13th century

[terse bronze]

Yeah

[terse bronze]

yeah plate harness no

but I think it's kinda cool to see very early instances of plate defenses !

but anyway, that's not the place to discuss 13thc

[robust tendon]

well yes we essentially did

since antiquity and earlier actually

musculata, cardiophylax, all could be considered "plate" armor

[robust tendon]

...armor is designed to protect you from every sort of battlefield threat

[vocal vale]

from the stroke, of Pike, Halbard, and Sword, Crosse-bowe, Long-bowe, and from Stones, and from all other hurt, that may pro|ceede from the enemies hande!

-raimond de fourquevax

[terse bronze]

fourquevaux* ?

can you send the og sentence plwease

[robust tendon]

also worth noting the dendra panopoly

closest thing from pre-medieval period to late period full harness

[next orchid]

Du bellay

[formal sphinx]

yo

add catapult

[next orchid]

The guy literally died with this book only for it to be attributed to someone else

[vocal vale]

that's funny

my mistake Cannon Fodder

[next orchid]

He likely had help but if ur going to say du Bellay didn't write it then raimond definitely didn't write it either

[formal sphinx]

add this pls

[vocal vale]

new file name is "passage_on_arquebuses_falsely_attributed_to_raimond_de_fourquevaux_but_actually_by_joachim_du_bellay.jpg"

[next orchid]

Not Joachim

Guillaume

[formal sphinx]

omg

mj son

[next orchid]

And it's contested authorship technically, but the contention is stupid so wtv

[vocal vale]

what book is it from

[next orchid]

Instructions sur le faict de la guerre

[vocal vale]

cheers

[next orchid]

The early modern English translation is pretty bad btw

[terse bronze]

i love joachim !!!!

fuck guillaume

[vocal vale]

g-g-guillaume

[terse bronze]

joachim is the better du bellay

[vocal vale]

i dont know anyt of these poeple help

[terse bronze]

https://youtu.be/RfiRbYg5w5w?si=KTEJTgk6dwIOW18n I wish this video had english subtitles cuz I can't share it with my puter friends

[next orchid]

Forgets the estoc at the saddle of the man at arms, messes up the line about halberds, etc

[terse bronze]

this goes into detail about armor proofing in the 15thC. from bows to guns

and the legal aspect ect

[next orchid]

Proofing for guns seems to be late 15th c. thing

Too lazy to check the earliest mention but orso degli Orsini says guns just zip through armor

And Monte wrote that it was a more recent invention by the germans

[vocal vale]

you are well studied i am glad you are here

[terse bronze]

Think they mention dates and specific pieces that got the double/triple steel seal of quality on it in the video

doing something else rn can't check

[next orchid]

Is it explicitly for guns?

They had proofing for "powerful" crossbows

[terse bronze]

They do mention guns aswell so

in the vid they also (iicr) mention that the third grade of proofing against the very powerful crossbows & guns was pretty rare but existed

[next orchid]

Muzzle energy difference between a crossbow and handgun was pretty massive. Of course the ball needs more energy to penetrate but it brute forces its way through that inefficiency

But anyways it existed at the latest 1490

[terse bronze]

awesome doublet hell yeah

[vocal vale]

hell yeah

[tired pasture]

🙄

[robust tendon]

highly doubt these were still in use during the 15th century

[soft mantle]

neat thanks!

[tepid edge]

0 chance

[tepid edge]

armlet with a bevor?

or is it a closed helm

[vocal vale]

armet with wrapper\

[tepid edge]

weird how the current armet doesn't come with a wrapper

[vocal vale]

the only form of close helm in the 15th century is certain depictions of "bicoques"

[vocal vale]

the original it is based off of does not include a wrapper as far as i know

[tepid edge]

does this fit the game period

[vocal vale]

yes

[tepid edge]

what are some other possible late tier helmet types besides sallet variants and armets?

[vocal vale]

these

grand bascinets

uhhh

that's pretty much it

[tepid edge]

oh wow

[vocal vale]

i mean kettles and sallets and more armets

[tepid edge]

Did people know when a helmet was out of date back then

[vocal vale]

yes

[tepid edge]

how does that go

[vocal vale]

manuscripts from the mid or late 1400s often used hounskull bascinets as a sign of something happening a long time ago

[tepid edge]

Between a great helm being forged and it being discard/recycled for being outdated, how long is that gap at most

[vocal vale]

probably like 20 years or something?

[tepid edge]

oh wow

so it didn't even last one generation

[vocal vale]

take that with a grain of salt, im not exactly sure

[tepid edge]

what are the comtemparies of the great helm

[vocal vale]

but i remember a case where somewhere in the UK (maybe leeds?) an inventory account states that there were several greathelms in the armory, for like 50 years, that stayed there and never got used

im going completely off memory though - i'll try and find what im talking about

[vocal vale]

considering they lasted from 1200 to like 1350 you'll have to narrow it down

[tepid edge]

oh I thought they were only used for 20 years lmao

1300 I guess

[vocal vale]

OH

i thought you meant one example of a greathelm

[tepid edge]

did they suddenly decide to stop using it in 1350 abruptly

[vocal vale]

i thought you meant like, guy gets a greathelm forged, at what point would he find a better helmet and discard the other one

[vocal vale]

that's roughly when they fizzle out

[vocal vale]

generally like 20 or 30 years was the time it took for a better kind of helmet to roll around

[tepid edge]

also this

did knights sometimes donate their shit to communal inventories or something

[vocal vale]

not as far as i know

at least not often enough to be mentioned by anything i've read

[tepid edge]

The ancient greeks used bronze armor right

[vocal vale]

yes

[tepid edge]

I wonder what a half sword era great sword can do it

[vocal vale]

fuck it up

[tepid edge]

like outright cut through it

?

[vocal vale]

a lot of bronze armor we've found just straight up has big ass holes or slashes cut through it

[tepid edge]

so an arming sword can probably cut it too

[vocal vale]

it seems like depending on the bronze you used, it'd either work like armor or work like paper'

[tepid edge]

oh

is half sword era more iron or steel armor

[vocal vale]

steel

[tepid edge]

is there a big difference in performance between the two?

In regards to melee strikes.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2931c3f4243ed1cdf9923a01c5c9f911-lq

[vocal vale]

roman armor and weaponry was often made out of iron.. so i guess iron protects against iron well enough

but genuinely i am not quite sure the differences other than steel = better

[vocal vale]

thas bronze

[tepid edge]

I know

[vocal vale]

just making sure

steel is miles stronger than iron from what i know as it just has more carbon in it, period

[tepid edge]

What your options for cutting that guy open by the 15th century around

I wonder why the helmet is made with bones

[vocal vale]

probably very easy

[vocal vale]

bones got a lot of carbon in them

[tepid edge]

So the trope of a sword cutting through armor will probably apply if it's a great or even longsword being used against that

[vocal vale]

i mean "cutting" through it not so much

[tepid edge]

I guess like

[vocal vale]

but if you stab it super dang hard then yeah it'd puncture as far as i know

[tepid edge]

what happens you cut a thin barrel?

like a giant splitting dent

[vocal vale]

whar

[tepid edge]

uh

can't find it

[tepid edge]

what if you slash really hard

[vocal vale]

it would dent probablly . . ..

[next orchid]

Yes it's a bevor

Although sometimes the visor itself is called a bevor too

(particularly later on but I believe Monte uses it in that manner)

[vocal vale]

when was that guy out and about?

i would figure visor and bevor being used the same would be fitting for falling buffes and stuff

[next orchid]

Late 15th c., died in 1509 in battle

[vocal vale]

ah probably not those then

interesting

[next orchid]

Yes the buffe is also a bevor

[next orchid]

(he also uses it in the conventional manner)

[next orchid]

donating to parishes was a thing iirc

[formal sphinx]

noo

[craggy cedar]

Does he have pants underneath?

[tepid edge]

No clue

[humble monolith]

What is that profile picture?

[robust tendon]

no, but this is a modern drawing

doubt it represents what this would be worn alongside properly

[terse bronze]

they didn't really wear pants in bronze age greece

moreso a tunic or something similar

[toxic breach]

Did their dingaling hang under the tunic

[robust tendon]

not even shoes?

[terse bronze]

Ppl have been fighting barefoot during every period whenever they felt like it so i'm not surprised

[lone osprey]

not reference but just showing off the content ive been waiting for in an action fantasy game since demons souls 15 years ago finally delivered via mods

[ancient pivot]

What game?

[lone osprey]

dragon's dogma 2

the artist who produced the maximilian armour [https://www.artstation.com/artwork/KOlL29 who I spoke to in order to ask for the assets which he permitted, and then gave to my DD2 modder friend (sadly, the gothic armour he produced he already promised to some indie game that never got finished)]
based it on this:
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/35922
which the label seems to imply that the breastplate + placard are actually original, which is a pretty fascinating 'gothic' carry over

will never get tired of the visor up visor down option in DD2

[next orchid]

They removed the slutty waist

Plackarts survive into the 17th century

[toxic breach]

Green sallete

Early Norwood balding pattern in 15c art

[minor comet]

what the hell is that thing hanging off of him

[toxic breach]

The Thingamajig

Otherwise known as the Doohickey

[humble pagoda]

Its a "Windlass" I believe. It helps to wind up the crossbow.

[toxic breach]

Wrong. I clearly said its a Doohickey

[humble pagoda]

Its obviously a Doodad

[toxic breach]

true..

[vocal vale]

this is rad

[toxic breach]

True

[silver tide]

half sword, then half sword 2, then half sword episode 1 and 2. And then 3 never releases

kind of a refrence

[urban echo]

half sword 2 electric boogaloo

[toxic breach]

Bonsoar mon garcon I need to learn French in the military can you be my tutor

[urban echo]

fo sure

u gonna invade ?

[toxic breach]

No

I was assigned to a French-coded unit

becos their areas of operation cover french speaking regions in africa i thinke

[urban echo]

damn

us mil ?*

[toxic breach]

Ya

In exchange I will show you my furries. The critters i draw

[urban echo]

damn

[toxic breach]

True

[urban echo]

we don't claim em

[toxic breach]

Hmm but I personally do

[urban echo]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-cat-kitten-explosion-explode-gif-13413781400084246782

[urban echo]

have ur way we tried for 100 years and it ruined us lmao

[toxic breach]

No I personally claim those lands

Me myself

They are my own personal dominion now

[urban echo]

i'll support ur claim at the UN

[toxic breach]

https://tenor.com/view/chew-chewing-gum-trident-caveat-andrea-gif-23590639

[urban echo]

https://tenor.com/view/post-scriptum-starcat-funny-gif-15775216

[tired pasture]

plomes

[lone osprey]

do you know what this is from

[fossil hatch]

eyo b0ss whats the landsknecht looking armor mod name

[terse bronze]

1455-1457 Germany, ÖNB Cod. 2952

[lone osprey]

I will send the link when its uploaded soontm

[white fulcrum]

who he playing hot potato with

[minor comet]

tHATS A GRENADE RUUUUUUN

[robust tendon]

what’s he holding? Early handgrenade?

[terse bronze]

just grenades

1450s isn't early for grenades

[robust tendon]

i see

what were they used for? I don’t think i’ve seen them depicted before

other than killing people i suppose

[terse bronze]

Cuz according to "Medieval Advisor" on FB that's the first manuscript depiction of them

tho i'm sure mentions existed before

and ofc archeological finds

[turbid shadow]

Im really tempted to become a pateron

[fleet junco]

Grenade

[terse bronze]

keen eyes!

[fleet junco]

Hi clothapple

[minor comet]

wikipedia says otherwise

[terse bronze]

"cast-iron"

nothing in the image says cast-iron

grenades were already used back during the crusades

so yeah

1450s is not early for "grenades" as a whole

and fuck wikipedia btw

not a source

[minor comet]

i still dont believe that

[minor comet]

i dont believe grenades were videly available to poorfuck soldiers like the one in this painting

[minor comet]

okay sorry then Needham, Volume 5, Part 7, 179.

[terse bronze]

that's not what we're talking about tho

Again we're talking about grenades

not specific types of cast iron ones or idk what else

Thought I have a hard time thinking that's the earliest depiction, i'm pretty sure i've seen a couple before that

[terse bronze]

for instance

from the crusades

[lone topaz]

didint the romans or byzantines have rudimentary grenades way earlier

[lone topaz]

i recall them looking similar to these

[minor comet]

greek fire for fighting against ships

[terse bronze]

Which wouldnt be surprising tbh greeks, turks, middle easterns ect were quite close tech-wise

and in the end it's just a cocktail molotov

Incendiary mixture (often nafta) within a relatively fragile shell (here terracotta)

I would love to get explosive crossbow bolts but idk if there any sources for them prior to the 16thc

[toxic breach]

What is da thing around his neck
livery collar??

[robust tendon]

kind of unclear but i think so

[toxic breach]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-freaky-bob-freaky-bob-meme-gif-10720828043929228240

[hallow fiber]

The thing around the neck is a poorly drawn detail from the brass effigy of Thomas Sherneborne, the person who chose to make that drawing decided to give volume to something that is essentially depicted as flat on the effigy

The so called collar is originally flat sticking on the surface of the armor, it isn’t actually elevated like the author of the drawing depicted it

This one is more accurate :

So what is it at the end of the day? Well those other effigies might give you the answer :

So yes it is a stylized livery collar.

[next orchid]

"We rested until noon, when what should happen but an infantryman from our army went out all alone, armed with his sword and shield. He marched up to the wall of the tower that had fallen, whose sides had become like the steps of a stairway, and climbed up until he reached its highest point. When the other infantrymen of our army saw him, about ten of them rushed to follow him, fully armed, climbing up one behind the other until they were all on top of the tower, while the Franks were completely unaware of them. As for us, we suited up in our tents and marched out. Many more of the infantrymen had climbed the tower before the rest of the army had arrived.

The Franks now turned upon our men and shot them with arrows, wounding the one who was the first to climb up. So he went back down. But the other men continued to climb until they were facing the Franks on the parapet between the two tower walls. In front of them rose a tower with a doorway, in which stood an armoured horseman with shield and spear preventing entrance to the tower. On top of the tower was a group of Franks attacking our men with arrows and stones. One of the Turks climbed up while we were watching and, abandoning himself to fortune, walked forwards until he approached the tower and hurled a bottle of naphtha on those who were on top of it. I saw it blaze like a shooting star on the stones, while those Franks threw themselves to the ground out of fear of getting burned. The Turk then came back."

• Usama ibn Munqidh

[humble pagoda]

Does anyone know what armor this is?

[next orchid]

based on Flemish "heroic" armor, which is mostly an art device to show a fantastical setting or an older period

the cuirass is probably based on this painting

[robust tendon]

there is also an extant piece in the Chateau de Chillon

It’s very similar to this reproduction

[terse bronze]

this is not an extant

It's a reproduction made for the exposition at Chillon

[robust tendon]

fuck

[minor comet]

why would they leave their mid and lower chest exposed like that

[terse bronze]

"mostly an art device to show a fantastical setting or an older period"

"fantastical"

[minor comet]

so just drip

[terse bronze]

Or maybe.. THIS is the "brigandine with placard" that the burgundian ordonnances were talking about !!!!!!!!!!! 😱 😱

[toxic breach]

Actually slays

[next orchid]

it isnt, it has brigandine

[tepid edge]

@vocal vale unrelated but how is the accuracy on this model https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/europe1200/images/8/82/Santiago_knight.png/revision/latest?cb=20130720220434

[visual forge]

Some money shots Ive attempted to take with my phone at this one place

[terse bronze]

none of which are from the time period of the game

still awesome tho

[tired pasture]

the greathelm fucked the surcoat fucked and the hood should be attached to the haubergeon

[tepid edge]

Pog info

[granite wigeon]

They're from wich period? They look really nice!

[toxic breach]

Looks 16th

Im about to drop a deuce

[terse bronze]

throughout the 16thc

from "early" to late

[granite wigeon]

Thanks!

[tired pasture]

this is fake

[toxic breach]

True i fabricated this

[tired pasture]

thanks for being honest ❤️

[toxic breach]

Those guantlts look too big for those couters

[tired pasture]

i swear i saw longer cuffs on reinforced couters in a frescoe somewhere

[toxic breach]

I mean would cuffs getting stuck under the couters rly be that big of an issue

I imagine not . ..

[vocal vale]

this is an awesome illustration

[toxic breach]

Tru

[lone osprey]

It depicts Johannes d. Ä. (d. 1504) from the Pappenheim Chronicle of the Truchesses of the house of Waldburg (named after the author, Augsburg canon Mathäus von Pappenheim). It was commissioned by Georg von Waldburg ("Bauernjörg") after his success in the German Peasants War. After it was written, Georg requested that "in the future, after the death of each Truchess, their portrait shall be depicted." The majority of these are thought to have been produced c.1530 in the Burgkmair workshop in Augsburg based on the date of the author's portrait.

Although numerous of the portraits are fantastical designs derived partially from Burgkmair's designs for Maximilian's woodcut genealogy of 1509, there is a point at which around the ancestors of the 15th century that some degree of historical accuracy is integrated, most evidently with the gold armour of Jakob I. "der goldene Ritter" (d. 1460), who was the father of the Johannes d. Ä. posted.

My source (catalogue of the 1973 500th birthday anniversary exhibition of Burgkmair by Tilman Falk) states that Johannes of Waldburg's design (the one posted) is based on his gravestone/plate in the crypt of the Klosterkirche zu Isny, and posits that Burgkmair's workshop must have been given a preparatory drawing with its design, which is also evident in several of the other portraits from the 15th century Truchesses and onward.

[lone osprey]

So this is not fake. It is among the most plausible in the Chronicle.

[lone osprey]

Oh look I actually found a reproduction, didn't think I would.

Of a drawing after the same gravestone/plate, anyway.

[tired pasture]

i was joking

sigh

[lone osprey]

oh

yeah I knew that

[humble monolith]

Too late for the game

[toxic breach]

This man looks like a real manuscript person

[tired pasture]

HE DOES OMG

time traveler

[vocal vale]

my god

at his own behest perhaps

Just kidding

[toxic breach]

He is cosplaying this effigy

[terse bronze]

No he isn't

[terse bronze]

He's reenacting a St. George statue in a german cathedral, i can't really th exact name but there a St. Florian statue right next to it

[lone osprey]

truth

[lone osprey]

pretty disappointed the wax sculpture isnt striking the same fabulous pose

nvm

[terse bronze]

the wax sculpture?

it's a guy lol

[humble monolith]

Its an alive wax sculpture

[minor comet]

is that a real person

his face looks painted/edited

[terse bronze]

look up "makeup" on google

[lost zealot]

fresco from Trient, Italy 1440

[obtuse comet]

what the hell

[toxic breach]

https://tenor.com/view/טחטחןולך-gif-26120904

[ebon vapor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdK00IFLjkA

[terse bronze]

???

[toxic breach]

😭😭

[tired pasture]

idk if i posted this yet

[ancient pivot]

my favourite late 15th century armour

[potent yarrow]

Oh jesus wtf

[toxic breach]

Bro is shocked

[potent yarrow]

What happened like why?

[tired pasture]

egyptian soldiers killing children

[toxic breach]

Its a scene from this story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Innocents

Because Biblical narratives were a popular theme in art, this story appears in different manuscripts throughout different eras

[rustic dune]

Any info on this helmet??

[tired pasture]

fake

[rustic dune]

I know
I just want more info on the pic

Cant find any

[tired pasture]

made by some dude who makes props for movies

just reverse search it

[terse bronze]

https://www.deviantart.com/ugo-serrano/art/my-helmet-2-145304059

[rustic dune]

I totally forgot u can do that

[rustic dune]

Thx

[vocal vale]

hell yeah

[humble pagoda]

Where can you find these old paintings?

[vocal vale]

museums and wikipedia and https://armourinart.com/

[minor comet]

i want a cool hand prostethic like this guy had in the game

shit would be so cool

[lone osprey]

© Zvonimir Grbasic

Götz von Berlichingen, Reluctant Leader: Knight of the Iron Hand is a good article

[fleet junco]

Gots

[terse bronze]

https://app.raa.se/open/arkivsok/document?uri=https:%2F%2Fpub.raa.se%2Fdokumentation%2Faec2b5f7-6e03-4ace-9cdc-81f1a8cb82d4

[turbid shadow]

this is so me

[prisma raven]

Detail from 'St George and the Dragon', by the 'Master of Sierentz', c. 1450. Fine Arts Museum, Basle.

[next orchid]

too bad all of the translations suck

[lone osprey]

¿they dont and it's written by an american historian writing in english?

[next orchid]

i meant the actual memoirs

[lone osprey]

oh just learn german

easy as

[next orchid]

if u opened it up u would know how much of a fools errand that is

on top of being under researched new high german, it is super regional

[lone osprey]

https://fwb-online.de/

https://woerterbuchnetz.de/?sigle=DWB#1

done

[next orchid]

yes i know and both of those dont have a lot of the words lmao

[lone osprey]

easy

early new high german really isn't that hard

[next orchid]

then check out the gotz's memoirs

[lone osprey]

a new translation just came out 3 years ago

[next orchid]

yes i know and i checked it out and its ass

[lone osprey]

proof?

[next orchid]

the part when he dismounts to assault the church is translated incorrectly

for example

theres a bunch of stuff like that

also iirc it translates something to rapier for some reason

i forgot what the german word was but it wasnt fuckin rapier lol

[lone osprey]

so be a good philologist and annotate yourself a good version

they translated the rosetta stone

im sure gotz's biography isnt that hard

[next orchid]

id have to annotate literally the whole book

[lone osprey]

ya

[next orchid]

im not a genius

[lone osprey]

you want to understand it or not

[next orchid]

at that point why annotate

[lone osprey]

to keep track of your annotations

[next orchid]

id basically be translating it on my lonesome lol

theres only like 2 people who i trust to translate medieval german

every other time ive checked the translation to be sure on something ive been disappointed

actually i guess that goes for most translations 😔

but german especially

[lone osprey]

this doesnt look that hard!
https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Mein_Fehd_und_Handlungen
point out passages you think are hard and we can see how hard they really are

the 2021 translation looks pretty good comparativelz too

no translation is perfect but it looks like it has the meat of it pretty accurate

[lone osprey]

I see they translated 'kurtzenn tegenn' as rapier which yeah is pretty silly

they could have just said short sword

[lone osprey]

reading the translation of this passage in part 2 and nodding my head

all looks pretty right to me?

[next orchid]

what does it say for "und hett mein tegenn auch auf denn bordt etc"

[lone osprey]

"because
my rapier was still on the saddle of my dead horse" but it doesnt translate the next random clause about slashed pants?

it does look like they just omitted it outright, yes

[next orchid]

it should be that he girdled on his sword

[lone osprey]

true that! bordt is belt

I dont even think saddle

has a similar sounding word

[next orchid]

i think he assumed bordt = board of the saddle

[lone osprey]

yeah they fucked that up huh

[next orchid]

theres stuff like that throughout the translation

its very annoying

i thought this was evidence of a saddle sword

although in truth i think he did have his sword at his saddle since its somtimes depicted that guys will have their girdled sword just resting at the pommel

but i thought it was like joinville and not like that

jurg gassmann translated that whole section for me btw

😏

[lone osprey]

youre definitely right though. that makes more sense of the clause about slashing pants afterwards too

[lone osprey]

the 2021 translation doesn't look like a bad start that you could fix though with some close attention like that

[next orchid]

i know but i hate doing that 😭

especially when u think u found something cool and then nope its just a mistranslation/misinterpretation

[next orchid]

another translation thought bordt was a shield

another thought bordt was an axe

i think they thought he tied his sword to his axe

or something silly

either way early new high german is still super annoying to translate

and i dont speak the language to boot

[lone osprey]

very strange since the FWB literally gives correct translation with first search

[next orchid]

yeah thats how i found it out lol

wasnt the first though

it was like someways down

medieval and renaissance italian is also super annoying

barely a single language

the resources for it also suck

gotta pull out some obscure 18th century venetian dictionary

[ancient pivot]

Is that like a base over the fauld or is it just shaped like that?

[robust tendon]

Bases are a 16th century thing

so no it’s probably just shaped that way

[vocal vale]

whassabase

[robust tendon]

see that skirt? It’s that

[humble monolith]

That's a fookin dog

[vocal vale]

OH

yeah i knew i’d heard that before in a similar context

alrighty

[tired pasture]

hot people stuff

[toxic breach]

True

[prisma raven]

Spanish anonymous, from the circle of Juan Sánchez de San Román, Sevilla 15th c., Passion altarpiece, ~1480

[lone osprey]

not necessarily a bases but that is almost definitely a conventional fauld covered partially by the skirt of the gown.
https://www.kikirpa.be/nl/friedlaender/728

they had heaps of gowns with skirts to wear over armour prior to the 16th century that arent necessarily bases

[vocal vale]

interesting!

[ancient pivot]

Looking at it closer though, I'm more convinced it's just a weird fauld. You can see the ends of each piece and where they rivet together. And there's nothing visible under the gown

[lone osprey]

yeah maybe youre right looking at the ridge in the middle it kind of looks like a frontal version of this style

going over a skirt

at the same time though I respect that the artist could be depicting a skirt covering regular fauld in a v shape

but perhaps it is a big articulated front tasset

[lone osprey]

yeah I think you and crecy are right. same artist, Master of the Legend of Saint Catherine. the rivets are clearer in this one. from three panels in the Met

also attributed to same artist

quite frankly, gross bug armor

[copper loom]

condom lookin ahh

[lost zealot]

piccle dogg

[minor comet]

https://youtube.com/shorts/5LROxWF2dUk?si=qFbeEBPdYhSbRv2D

very hot

[upper lintel]

very very

beautyfull

[violet grail]

goofy ahh

[toxic breach]

https://www.loc.gov/resource/rbc0001.2015rosen0118/?st=gallery

[lone osprey]

https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonsdogma2/mods/958?tab=posts

[next orchid]

tshirt waist

[lone osprey]

2/10 elbows too pointy would not bang

[lone osprey]

||its true and the maximilian armor waist is also too straight but im coping with it because i didnt make any of the assets||

the extreme sliders mod might transform the shape of the assets but the vanilla sliders for DD2 dont really let you :/

im happy with this for a fun open world fantasy game though

[fossil hatch]

danke br0

[eager burrow]

Good day mr art director sir.

I’m in dire need of a quarterstaff. Please etch my name into the wood grain of le stick..

ok ta ta

[fleet junco]

Can you etch my name into the ataff

[minor comet]

can we etch any name into the staff

[vocal vale]

always was confused about how these are supposed to look when the arm bends so here’s some photos

[toxic breach]

33

[vocal vale]

Indeed my sleeve does say that

its in reference to an album

[tired pasture]

i think i already posted this but wtv

[vocal vale]

cooldottiero could never be posted too much

[turbid shadow]

oh it got posted A LOT

we need giorneas in half sword

[civic glade]

13c its out of date

But really cool anyway

[terse bronze]

imma copy paste something rq

[vocal vale]

that's actually rad

[vocal vale]

not sure if i agree with the in-period adequacy but the recreation of the depiction is A1

[terse bronze]

tl;dr : It's most probably a badly drawn greathelm

og ms

[fleet junco]

They dont

[vocal vale]

pretty much!

[lone osprey]

is the Ulrich von Matsch helmet in Churburg already in the game?

[tired pasture]

i forget which lord of matsch that is

is it the one on this harness?

[lone osprey]

its this one that im referring to

[tired pasture]

it’s dated 1450? yes?

[lone osprey]

no idea i dont even know if they verified authenticity or if it belongs to the rest of the suit. i just think it looks pretty

[tired pasture]

from what i can find so far the harness is dated 1450 so there’s a potential chance it can be added to the game

but from what i know the devs shortened the available armor time frame to like 1470

[lone osprey]

interesting that's fair. is there a showcase of all the armor that has been added?

I wonder if that will include any great bascinets if there arent any already given they were still supposedly being used in charles the bold's burgundian wars

[tired pasture]

we haven’t had a showcase on any new armor from what i know

[lone osprey]

oh sorry I mean like in general what they've already added. like is there a collage arranging them all together?

[robust tendon]

the earliest date is 1450 so it might be added

personally i think it should just start at 1430 like it used to

[lone osprey]

oh cool that's good

I was always confused why the murten panorama depicted this until seeing that it was part of the burgund booty in the bern history museum

when Oakeshott says "The great bascinet went out of fashion for field use after 1450, but continued as the regular helmet for foot-combat tournament armour well into the sixteenth century."

[vocal vale]

where can i find that full image on the left

[lone osprey]

https://www.murtenpanorama.ch/spezial/zoomify/index_en.php

[vocal vale]

my mouth is agape with how cool this is

[lone osprey]

there was once a time where dezoomify could download the whole panorama so you could just view it as a single file, but now it only downloads a small portion of it :/

it is awesome though they recently re-digitized it in super high resolution https://www.epfl.ch/labs/emplus/projects/diagram/

also if youre curious about some of the wild armor designs and apotropaic faces on some of the shields and cruppers, I think the people working on the panorama derived them from the illustrated swiss chronicles that are now available on e-codices

[vocal vale]

spiezer chronik the goat

[lone osprey]

I love the battle of St. Jakob bridge defence story

[toxic breach]

big ax lol!

[lone osprey]

pinis stuff

never ever going to get

my buddy modder i am commissioning for DD2 stuff hit a roadblock with the physics for the one i asked him to make

[south mauve]

AS IN DARKEST BLUNTGEONS??????

[lone osprey]

I should have clarified dragon's dogma 2

[south mauve]

oh.

[lone osprey]

is darkest dungeons 2 even 3d lol

[next orchid]

Is cinis cancelled

[turbid shadow]

its an art project at this point

[agile star]

ok how does anyone even see out of that

i mean it looks cool but there is no way you can see it looks closed

[terse bronze]

The angle doesn't show the ocularia

visor can also be lifted

[agile star]

oh i see

that looks sick

[toxic breach]

They call me the visor

[agile star]

my personal favorite helmet

dont know the exact name of the one in halfsword

black armor is just so cool

[true zodiac]

oh that's a cool helmet

sallets are cool, they go well with and without armor, you just need to know how to style them well

i truly enjoy the age of convenient armor that you can wear basically however you want

[robust tendon]

it's just a sallet

sallets don't really get specific names

though there is one exception, barbute style sallets

[robust tendon]

sallets can be worn many different ways

angled, visor/no visor, etc

without a bevor, with one

without a visor entirely

[lone osprey]

don't forget the Rennhut for Rennen

[robust tendon]

but yeah not all armor was like that

though plate armor is super configurable to the individual's preferences

compared to say, maille

i suppose so

all armor is configurable it's not really unique to the 15th century

you can wear whatever you want depending on what you value in any era of armor ever

[fickle bane]

We need knights in half sword

[lone osprey]

We need hares in halfsword

[true zodiac]

pretty much what crecy said, it's just convenient to wear your armor depending on your preferences, whether you want more protection, more visibility or maybe you just want armor on certain parts of your body

[old radish]

💀

[vocal vale]

i lofe helmet

[vocal vale]

this actually looks really rad with the visor up

[silver sinew]

German sallet at the Worchester Museum of Art

Armor for Field and Tilt, of Count Franz von Teuffenbach (1516-1578)

https://worcester.emuseum.com/people/16690/stefan-rormoser/objects

This has pics of all the individual pieces

German gorget

[terse bronze]

this

[terse bronze]

and that

are too late for the game

[neat palm]

My buddy is trying to get into Buhurt, and is trying to get me into it. If I ever get the money for plate mail I'll have to get some photography with the two of us idiots

[terse bronze]

don't post them here then

[neat palm]

?

what's the issue with posting those pictures here?

[terse bronze]

Because it's the reference channel

used to post

references

[neat palm]

yes and I have introduced him to this game. He hasent played it, but he knows of it and some of the goofiness

you mean to say us to ditship lagoon creatures wont make references?

[toxic breach]

True as hell

[toxic breach]

Well what Kevlar meant is that the channel is for posting material that devs will possibly use as references in designing stuff for the game

Not that the channel is meant to be used to share references to halfsword

[neat palm]

Ah. Ok. See, that's things that are not said prior to, y'now?

Would've been good information to have. It's probably written somewhere and I just missed it

[toxic breach]

mods said that the devs genuinely check this channel for things to pick out and potentially implement in the game so not shitting up the chat with unrelated stuff makes their life easier ;D

[neat palm]

Fair nuff

Again tho, would've been good to know

[terse bronze]

I think the channel being named "references" would be enough tbh

[neat palm]

granted my friend and I do try out different styles, including video game and custom shit, to see what works....

[neat palm]

Well there's about three definitions of a reference

References to something, references to be used, and references you used (like in a paper)

[terse bronze]

However would be cool if devs or mods changed the description of the channel to be more precise (in particular with the game's timeframe since a lot of people have trouble with that)

[neat palm]

See I thought this was references to the game, not for the game

That's where I got lost

[vocal vale]

This channel is a communal "dump" for historically accurate representations of arms and armor to assist the developers of Half Sword - feel free to discuss

1450-1470, ~10-year flexibility

Western Europe - Holy Roman territories, England, France, Italy, Spain, with possible flexibility on western regions of Hungary and similar

**Avoid **using reenactor or harnischfechten photos unless you are well studied and certain that they are accurate portrayals - no buhurt, SCA, or similar - images posted should most often be from in-period art or extant pieces

Particularly long-winded questions and answers should **ideally **be asked and answered in a thread, but this will not be enforced

Stay civil.

[terse bronze]

Oh my skibidi

[vocal vale]

from now on if someone posts erroneous images just reply 📌

[vocal vale]

cool dagger

[bright token]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/119697302589146510/

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/463787

[agile star]

OH MY GOODNESS PEAK

it looks like the dark souls design

it looks better than the sallet ngl

where do i get one

[frozen shore]

i referenced the guy getting hit in the head looked like this photo

oopsies

[lone topaz]

nuh uh

[patent lava]

Wtf I play and like for honor but this is not historical for this game

[neat palm]

Sweet

[void stream]

https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-wegeekinghard-blud-tiktok-animatronic-tweaking-gif-18331326635054461479

[prisma ocean]

dude i literally work at a museum this is historical

[terse bronze]

shut up zergus

[prisma ocean]

@terse bronze is this accurate btw?

[toxic breach]

Medieval lipstick

[terse bronze]

that guy is weird anyway

[sullen charm]

Is this historical…

[robust tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/chunk-groundhog-chunk-the-groundhog-stare-staring-gif-9579354942172350414

[fleet junco]

I found cool bird

Milanese has cool asymestrydicty and its very cool

[sullen charm]

Bird

[vocal vale]

rad

[fleet junco]

The bird is so rad

[lone osprey]

can anybody recognize if this is based on a specific existing set https://www.artstation.com/artwork/6NaWyW

[robust tendon]

doesn’t seem to be

[lone osprey]

yeah nvm the visor was tricking me but i think they just got it from the 1450 Ganzer Feldharnisch, Armatura alla Francese in the kunsthistorisches museum

but then like spliced the design with more typical milanese features for later in the 15th century or something i dunno enough about italian armour

[robust tendon]

I thought of this one but it’s got significantly smaller couters and pauldrons

also the grand basc is a lot different than this piece’s grand basc

though might be the angle

Idk

[toxic breach]

Richard de Beauchamps plate harness but with a great bascinet

[robust tendon]

this one?

[toxic breach]

Or not!

Idk

[robust tendon]

bro doesn’t even know

[toxic breach]

Mysterious and esoteric armor set

Yez

[lone osprey]

I can see this yes

[lone osprey]

the suit has a bunch of the similarities

but yeah obviously not the helmet lol but he did say with a great bascinet

just makes me want this more tbh

and the von Matsch set though I haven't compared how much of it is actually in this pinis render

credit to Ian Campbell lead artist of pinis

[agile star]

BIRB

[toxic breach]

Tall ass Plackart

[lyric light]

italians liked tall plackarts

[terse bronze]

not only italians

[vocal vale]

love this harness

the arms in particular

[vocal vale]

if anyone has more information on these late 15thc flemish close helms please Hit Me Up, particularly that second one which i've only seen otherwise in a chart from Augusto Boer Bront iirc

[haughty creek]

Look at the close sallet from St. Peter’s church that’s dated to 1485, it looks quite similar to the second picture

Here it is

[vocal vale]

thanks

we NEED in half sword !

[haughty creek]

It’s a beautiful helmet, they aren’t commonly represented in most of the major armored sports

It’s within the 10 year swing period too, so it would be viable

Technically I believe that helmet is a close sallet instead of a close helmet, but I don’t remember why

[vocal vale]

the nape protection

its still a close helmet based off the manner of opening

[peak lava]

Bird

[lone osprey]

bird up

[robust tendon]

well this one in particular i believe is a sallet

The other one you posted could be called “close helm” though

[fast karma]

armet

[rocky sand]

Anyone got a reference for a plançon à picot. I cant find any

[haughty creek]

It’s not an armet, in an armet the chin splits open

[fast karma]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Italian_Armet_(15c)_by_Wendelin_Boeheim.jpg

armet

[ancient pivot]

But close helms are armets

[ancient pivot]

Also pretty sure the first of these is just a regular armet, has the hinges on the side

[fast karma]

https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/original/DP164608.jpg

the book is from 1880

https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/original/DP164609.jpg

second could be a close helmet

[robust tendon]

it has a sallet skull and is shaped very much unlike an armet

[fast karma]

which one?

[robust tendon]

do you not mean this one

[fast karma]

could be armet or close helmet

[vocal vale]

its got sallet nape protection but it opens like a close helm

[vocal vale]

i thought the ridge in the middle was the articulate bevor of a close helm

[ancient pivot]

the red bits make me think it's an armet, with the hinge at the side, and possibly a catch and release button on the chin to hold it closed. There's the bit at the bottom in blue which clearly shows a gap between the front and the back but then that doesn't look like it extends up with the green like a close helm would, instead it just looks flush like an armet.

Excuse the shitty drawing lol

[fast karma]

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/32426

https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/original/SC-LC-26_236_067.jpg

[vocal vale]

oh yeah you’re right i just looked at it a bit harder

good eye !

[fast karma]

wild pollaxe variations

thats beautiful

in a deadly kind of way

[fast karma]

i dont know the nomenclature around pollaxes but i was thinking of the pommel part