references♥_1450-1470

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1450-1460 - 'St. George, Sforza triptych' (workshop of Rogier van der Weyden), Koninklijke Musea voor Schone Kunsten, Brussel, Belgium

ca. 1456 - 'Christ Carrying the Cross, Marienfelder Altar' (Johann Koerbecke), Münster, Kloster Marienfeld, Gemäldegalerie, Berlin, Germany

oh yeah, if anyone want's to make threads that include references from other time frames, then feel free to do so

ca. 1457 - 'epitaph of Georg Count of Löwenstein (+1464) with the Crucifixion' (Hans Pleydenwurff and workshop), Bamberg, Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1460 - 'St. George', St. Peter and St. Paul's Church, Pickering, Yorkshire, England

ca. 1460 - 'The Martyrdom of St. Edmund and the four knights with Thomas Becket', St. Peter and St. Paul's Church, Pickering, Yorkshire, England

ca. 1460 - 'the four knights with Thomas Becket', St. Peter and St. Paul's Church, Pickering, Yorkshire, England

ca. 1460 - 'Passion of Christ', St. Peter and St. Paul's Church, Pickering, Yorkshire, England

ca. 1460 - 'wall paintings', St. Peter and St. Paul's Church, Pickering, Yorkshire, England

ca. 1450-1475 - 'St. Michael's altarpiece' (School of Valencia or Granada), De Backker Medieval Art (Hoogstraten), BRAFA, Brussels, Belgium

ca. 1460-1465 - 'Georgsaltar' (Meister der Georgslegende), Cologne, Wallraf-Richartz-Museum, Cologne, Germany

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1463-1470 - 'Altar of the Three Kings' (Hans Pleydenwurff and workshop), Dominikanerkirche, Nürnberg, Lorenzkirche, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1464 - 'Gideon and the Fleece, epitaph of Friedrich Schön (+1464)' (circle of the Meister des Wolfgang-Altars), Nürnberg, Lorenzkirche, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1464 - 'Adoration of the Magi' (Meister der Lyversberger Passion), Kartäuserkirche, Köln, Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1464-1466 - 'wings of the 'Lyversberg Passion'' (Meister der Lyversberg-Passion), Cologne, Kartäuserkirche, Cologne, Wallraf-Richartz-Museum, Cologne, Germany

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1470-1490 - 'Scenes from the Passion of Christ', Brabant, M - Museum Leuven, province of Flemish Brabant, Belgium

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1478 + 1591 - 'Gideon and the Fleece, epitaph of Ulrich Starck (+1478)', Sebalduskirche, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1486-1489 - 'Olivier de La Marche, Le Chevalier délibéré', Northern Low Countries, Gouda, Netherlands

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1488 - 'Martyrdom of Saint Lambert, Diptych of Henri Palude', maybe Liège, ancient Cathédrale Saint-Lambert, Liège, Le Grand Curtius, Liège, province of Liège, Belgium

ca. 1489 - 'St. George, Virgo inter virgines, detail' (Master of the Saint Lucy Legend), Brugge, Koninklijke Musea voor Schone Kunsten, Brussel, Belgium

ca. 1485-1490 - 'Rochusaltar' (Meister des Rochus-Altars), Nürnberg, Lorenzkirche, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1485-1500 - 'Triptych with Gideon, the Nativity and the Annunciation', Southern Low Countries, Museum Mayer van den Bergh, Antwerp, Belgium

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1440 - 'two groups of horsemen from a Crucifixion scene', Southern Low Countries, probably Brabant or Flanders, Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam, Netherlands

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1475-1500 - 'composite armour', German, Koninklijk Museum van het Leger en de Krijgsgeschiedenis, Brussels, Belgium

[turbid shadow]

last thing

that sums up the things that I have saved

[rapid tiger]

"i'm so busy bro i never have free time"
what he's busy with:

[turbid shadow]

lol, yeah I just like contributing references

[rapid tiger]

bro your not contributing

you legit are the references chat

[turbid shadow]

yeah this chat is quite dead as not everyone here knows a lot about arms and armor

but there will be times where it'd active

[rapid tiger]

yeah ion shit about armor and stuff like that

i just play the game and chat

[bright token]

Love this type of kettle hat

Or is it a sallet…

A bit of both? Lol

[turbid shadow]

yeah a sallet

[rapid tiger]

rate teh shoes 🔥

[royal ocean]

joined this discord for one reason and one reason only and it's to complain

Where is the absolute cinema of medieval warfare?

[turbid shadow]

These dont fit the time period for this game

[royal ocean]

Are you certain?

I'm pretty sure flamberges / flame bladed swords were around by XV century, earlier too iirc

[turbid shadow]

Yeah, the game takes place in 1430-1480

So If you somehow can find examples of that.. then feel free to share them here

[royal ocean]

from what i can find they're rougly 15th century in the sense of "wavy blade sword" but the one i posted is indeed 16th century
shame

[turbid shadow]

Yes, HS may or may not have dlcs on the future tho, so it is totally possible that we have a dlc that covers that time period

St Thomas Altarpiece
Dating 1424-1436
Location Hamburg, Germany

Item Albrechtsaltar
Dating 1437
Location Germany

Dating 1430
Location Arnstadt, Thuringia, Germany

1450-1451 - 'St. Pontianus' (Jan Nude), Centraal Museum, Utrecht, province of Utrecht, Netherlands

[robust tendon]

they weren’t, they’re 16th century afaik

[terse bronze]

no

There's greatswords that would fit the game but they weren't really "zweihander" shaped yet, you'll have to wait the 16thc

And even later within the 16thc to see flamberge patterns

[robust tendon]

i hate the term zweihander ngl

literally means two hander, so in theory could apply to like polearms

greatsword is way better

[terse bronze]

Schlachtschwert ☝️🤓

[robust tendon]

greatsword easier

big sword

[turbid shadow]

Sword

[terse bronze]

yeah lol just had to nerd out

it's the historically attested german term

basically means battlesword

[vocal vale]

that sounds rad

[white fulcrum]

greatsword, warsword, battlesword…

[upbeat solar]

what about awesomesword

[torpid urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/tobuscus-diamond-sword-i-can-swing-my-sword-gif-23434327

[upbeat solar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7dYDYfvVg

[vocal vale]

[bright token]

Saved from fb

[void stream]

New Weapon Unlocked: The baby launcher

[fleet junco]

Why did they do thay

[robust tendon]

didn’t like him

[torpid urchin]

[bright token]

By Redanthalas Armory and Stuff

[fleet junco]

Is that armor

[sullen charm]

no its a gun

[last compass]

It’s actually a car

[obsidian sun]

Nay it be a fine vessel

[white fulcrum]

specifically a blood vessel

[torpid urchin]

Why are y’all posting birds in this channel

[upbeat solar]

birds were around back then. it’s a reference

[odd scaffold]

Rhose are pretty but bad

I asked if we'd see German armor like that and was told no

Total Italian victory

[bright token]

Oof

I like german and flemish more 🥹

Its ok

Manifesting (delusion) that gothic armour like these could still be in the game

[torpid urchin]

What’s stopping it from being added in the far future?

[terse bronze]

Nothing

Idk what's all this babbling is about, gothic armors totally fit in the game

At least until 1480

[lusty crypt]

The games graphics are so good🤪

[hallow hearth]

Wait. No gothic armor in the 1480s?

[bright token]

I think he meant 1480s style gothic armour

[turbid shadow]

what?

[odd scaffold]

Is that not true?

[turbid shadow]

no

[odd scaffold]

Huh.

I've been tricked.

[turbid shadow]

I know who you're refereeing to [me]

you said that style of armor was called Maximillian even though I'm sure it isn't

[odd scaffold]

Yeah I was neuro divergent at the time when I was asking.

[turbid shadow]

that harness is absolutely coming in, it just has to be on the time period for the game which I believe it is

[robust tendon]

what does that have to do with anything

[turbid shadow]

I recall it being 1485, which does indeed fit

[robust tendon]

1480 no?

[odd scaffold]

What type of harnesses would fit then?

[robust tendon]

1430-1480

Anything from that range

[turbid shadow]

a lot of good stuff

[robust tendon]

figure 1480 would end at 1480

not like 1485

But i mean it’s only five years

Style existed prior

[turbid shadow]

yeah

[robust tendon]

so

[turbid shadow]

total sigismund victory

[robust tendon]

it’s not like fully wrong

maximillian did indeed own a few harnesses in the 15th century german fashion

[odd scaffold]

Yeah. But I asked it very poorly.

What I meant was: Fluting or German styled armor in general

[robust tendon]

but maxmillian usually refers to a specific 16th century style and not just armor within his reign’s timespan

[torpid urchin]

Have you seen his jousting harnesses? Those are wicked

[torpid urchin]

@mellow holly can I cop the torso model? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1164082942109290676/1242851459255636008/sillykonrad2.PNG?ex=664f571e&is=664e059e&hm=aa9bb1fd3558a53e941828905eb9cb76d1531da4ecedb7618260f26b22b05197&

[mellow holly]

ok

[humble pagoda]

What is this?

[fleet junco]

Armets

[sullen charm]

a mix of bicoques, armets and great bascinets

[rough wind]

What are the helmets 8 and 9 that have like teeth in its visor called

[torpid urchin]

Churburg armet

[sullen charm]

not sure if there's a specific name attributed to the style but it comes from churburg S18

[humble pagoda]

What type of kettles are these called?

[terse bronze]

kettles, chapel or warhats

you have the sources listen in the text bellow

[humble pagoda]

Were they used only by a specific kingdom?

[robust tendon]

no they were used pretty much everywhere

as in everywhere in western/maybe eastern europe anyway

[clever bramble]

example 1 and 4 have any of you seen this style actually used historically?

[robust tendon]

i believe i have

not sure which period though

not sure why 3 is included with these, it's more of a cervelliere than a kettle

just made of scale instead of a single piece

[terse bronze]

4

1 is just an interpretation of some bicoques/great bascinets you'd see in French manuscripts notably

[clever bramble]

ah ok I see now, looks more flat in the artist rendition.

[terse bronze]

Another one

[clever bramble]

Do you have any forged examples of this one by chance?

[terse bronze]

no

[clever bramble]

bummer, are you aware of any like this style actually existing?

[terse bronze]

no because that drawing is just a copy of french manuscripts greatbascinets/bicoques

cool guy

[bright token]

nice armour

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22003 sauce

[turbid shadow]

Forgot if this cuirass was too early foe the game or not, if anyone knows do tell

[terse bronze]

scroll up

[turbid shadow]

my inner stupid doesn’t want to scroll up

thanks for telling me

Looking for this MS later

[turbid shadow]

A video that shows authentic arms and armor that fit the time frame for this game, And a really nice grapple

[turbid shadow]

thanks to Kevlar for sending me the MS

[turbid shadow]

End of the MS, Paulus Kal Fechtbuch

[copper loom]

what is the purpose of the holes?

[turbid shadow]

This armor was made a tournament that Im pretty sure doesn’t allow stabbing

[copper loom]

oh so for weight and breathability then?

huh

[terse bronze]

Ventilation

[copper loom]

yeah i figured, smart to come up with to maximise the wearers stamina

[robust tendon]

1478-80, Bern, Switzerland.

[robust tendon]

bro last one is sasquatch there’s no way

[robust tendon]

Sleeping Guards at the Sepulchre
Hronský Beňadik Monastery Church, 1470s
portrayed as Hungarian Heavy Infantry

From Jean Froissart’s “Chronique” 1470-75

[turbid shadow]

La spikey visor

[turbid shadow]

the arms and something

[robust tendon]

bro divorce depiction

[turbid shadow]

the divorce

[robust tendon]

i think the one of the guy in the ground with the club doohickey is a strange form of divorce they did from time to time in germany

but idk that might just be a myth

[turbid shadow]

yuh

[turbid shadow]

@robust tendon this is so us

[robust tendon]

true

[robust tendon]

the lifters

[turbid shadow]

indeed

[turbid shadow]

Throw HAT

@robust tendon More examples of the divorce thing

More armor

[robust tendon]

this stuff pops up kind of frequently

[robust tendon]

couldn’t have been common tho

[turbid shadow]

yeah its possible that it was dropped because of how silly it is

[robust tendon]

probably

[flat warren]

knight kiss!!

[turbid shadow]

So knightly!

[neat zephyr]

Woah real life version of black armor

[terse bronze]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12591757@N03/albums/72157603676037715/with/2180453658

[neat zephyr]

Frivolity aside, I'm curious of what type of helmet is that? I've been seeing that exact helmet design since I was a kid, depicted in cartoons, icons and whenever a knight is mentioned. But if I google for helmet types, closest I can find is armets with visor covering the lower face.

Is it a bicoque? But from searches, can't find one with that kind of visor

It's surprising to me that the helmet style that is always used to depict knights 15 years ago, is so hard to find actual image of on google image today

[robust tendon]

byeah it's a bicoque

[neat zephyr]

A lot of artists use this helmet design in icons for ages but I can't find a real life photo of it at all. Wonder where do they even get the reference from... Today is the first time I see it posted by Fencer.

May I know what era does this type of helmet is used and where this design is used?

[terse bronze]

https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Gladiatoria_group

This specific bicoque was made based on the miniatures in the gladiatoria group (fencing manuals from 1430s germany)

[turbid shadow]

You could also see them being used in war, there are even examples of crowned bicoques which have no business looking this good

[robust tendon]

i mean there's examples of crowned everything

[neat zephyr]

Thank you so much!

[turbid shadow]

np

[humble pagoda]

are they expensive to buy

[neat zephyr]

Bet there's no crowned kettle helms

Crowned helms are so dangerous. It'll catch maces and will break your neck. But at least you'll die in style

[robust tendon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/873989925484253226/1240744975453392997/nahh.gif

[turbid shadow]

There are depictions of them

[robust tendon]

no it won't

[turbid shadow]

Andd maces weren’t really that good against armor

[robust tendon]

it's more likely the thing either slides off or gets stuck, after which you can just shove a sword into his stomach

[neat zephyr]

👀
Woah! Even kettle helms. Cool!

[neat zephyr]

Ah, I see. Thought they're mainly for armored opponents. So war picks and warhammers I guess

[robust tendon]

not really those either

fighting in full harness is more getting around the armor and not through it

a pollax, longsword, and rondel dagger are pretty good tools for this

the only things that you could reasonably expect to pierce/seriously damage plate with are handgonnes or couched lances

even then, it's not a sure thing

[terse bronze]

yippie

Kettle and Bascinet of Charles VI of France

[white fulcrum]

maces and hammers are better suited for cavalry. You cannot generate the necessary force to reliably harm someone on foot, but on horseback you can

[copper nova]

How does one see out of that thing

Looks cool but man it'd be awful

[copper nova]

Respectfully, I think you're wrong
If you look at stuff like buhurt for example, people get knocked down from blunt impact alone fairly often

I know buhurt isn't the most historically accurate but it's still medieval armour and medieval weapons

[robust tendon]

yeah they’re hardly historical repros

and getting “knocked down” ≠ harmed

[copper loom]

hol up werent maces n hammers very popular for plate armor combat? due to its effectiveness??

[upper seal]

say less

[copper loom]

@ Kei rn:

https://tenor.com/view/schizo-me-when-gif-17018814255002209931

[upper seal]

wtf is the context with this one

[robust tendon]

No?

that’s a myth

the most popular weapon for armored fighting was a pollax

or longsword

but this isn’t because you can beat through plate armor; you can’t, these things are simply effective tools for the job of getting around plate

[neat zephyr]

true xD

at least it's not crowned skullcaps

I'd just lose my shit if it actually exist

[copper nova]

You're simply just wrong
Just because blunt force doesn't break the armour you still feel the impact

Buhurt armour is literally designed to tank blunt force for sport reasons, if you're using period accurate stuff with zero padding for example, yeah it's not fun

[robust tendon]

buhurt armor is designed to not be broken or deform like period accurate stuff is

there are very few accounts of people being seriously harmed with blunt arms while in plate harness

Even dequitem, a current day harnischfechten fighter, says maces are more or less useless for seriously harming someone

Of course, you do feel it, but this doesn’t mean hurt or taken out of the fight

[robust tendon]

People fight in period accurate harness, zero padding, and are fine

At most, you get dents and not really any actual injury

[copper nova]

I guess it also sorta just depends to be honest

[robust tendon]

It does

but if you consider that doing a full power strike with a mace (which dequitem says is more or less impossible in a fight) only dents the armor, you can imagine how normal blows would be to a well-armored man

what maces are good at, is fighting maille armored people

Because it isn’t rigid armor

[turbid shadow]

A fully armored man will never give you the opportunity to do a full power strike

[robust tendon]

that doesn’t mean that it’s like a guaranteed way to kill an early period man at arms, but it is an okay way to hurt him at least

[turbid shadow]

swords will always be better imo since they have more than one purpose

And more techniques

[robust tendon]

maces decline quite a bit in use when you see plate harness

except of course, for mounted soldiers

because horse is a good force multiplier

[robust tendon]

I think a knight or noble who would be in a duel would probably pick a longsword or pollax, even an arming sword, over a mace

because with a mace you can’t really stab or do much besides strike

it’s full circle, maces are really good against lightly armored or unarmored people

not knights/men-at-arms like what is commonly believed.

[terse bronze]

From his own word, he sees better in that than his previous sallet

[terse bronze]

You're wrong, buhurt arms and armors are very different from their historical counterpart

[terse bronze]

When you looks at different sources you notice a progressive drop-off in popularity of one handed maces and hammers used on foot as the plate coverage developp more and more

[turbid shadow]

Yeah, even though they make them so chunky for muh “safety reasons” they fall so hard compared to like an average ass breast plate lol

[terse bronze]

Iicr the weapons are also much heavier

[gritty ridge]

I think people forget that you aren't aiming for the metal part of the armour, as that's an actual waste of energy.

Treatises such as those of Liechtenauer generally talk about hooking people, and wrenching them.

Though, contemporary sources from slightly later, such as the Battle of Verneuil allege that the Duke of Bedford was able to 'mangle' armour, and smash people to pieces, so, who knows, really.

[robust tendon]

was probably on a horse

[lost zealot]

emo armor

[gritty ridge]

Duke of Bedford? Not sure, as I understood the English were all on foot, and that's how they preferred to fight, at least, during that period.

[robust tendon]

well yeah they did it a lot more than others

But that doesn’t mean they just…never used cavalry

during the period

it’s more or less impossible that a man on foot, wielding one handed weapons, would be able to mangle plate armor and “smash people to pieces”

so that account is either an embellishment

or he was on a horse

[copper loom]

oh ok understandable

[gritty ridge]

Oh, no I meant in regards to his two handed axe.

[copper loom]

i guess with plate armor only a really solid head blow would be ok with blunt weapons, but no permanent damage

[robust tendon]

two handed axe? you mean a pollax?

while that’s far more believable, it still seems unlikely to me

[gritty ridge]

Well, that's one word for it, but it appears a lot simply as 'Axe', historically, speaking, at least.

I wonder if it has something to do with the Dane Axe, just a thought of mine.

[robust tendon]

well they are still different weapons, a two handed axe and a pollax

while yes they would have called it an axe

[golden ingot]

My issue with this idea, is that there are too many factors to just say something like this

[gritty ridge]

I'm not aware of any pure 'Axes' as such being used in the 14th or 15th Century though, so I guess the term is perfectly suitable.

[terse bronze]

In period the word axe alone often just meant pollaxes

Lile in french "jeu de la hache"

[robust tendon]

yeah one handed or two handed axes mostly fell out of use

[terse bronze]

Hache = axe

Refers to pollaxes

[robust tendon]

pole of the axe?

or head? Idk

[gritty ridge]

Yes, as I understand it, the latter term is a modern one for convenience, though I could be wrong on that.

[robust tendon]

no i think pollax is historical as well

[terse bronze]

"Play of the axe" a pollaxe treaty

[robust tendon]

i see

[copper loom]

huh? how come? i was thinking that "oh so blunt weapons r rly bad against plate so i guess the only way to ur it remotely well is to get lucky with flat solid strikes to the cranium"

im not saying it was good

im saying i understand y its not good

[gritty ridge]

Interestingly, I wonder if it's an error to think that the 'poll' refers to the handle, and might instead refer to the flat 'mace' part of it instead?

Poll means, head, as far as I can tell, that might make more sense.

[terse bronze]

I think pollaxes was used but i'm not too versed in English text sources

In french you find hache, harche d'arme ect

Bec de faucon too

[torpid urchin]

spüngeböb

[golden ingot]

There are more weak points than just the head, assuming it’s 15th century like what this channel is about

[gritty ridge]

Well, I believe the cavalry mace usage was the downward swing, much like an inverted hammer curl, aiming for the head.

Seems that one handed maces tend to be a cavalry weapon too, primarily.

[copper loom]

its 14th achewly☝️🤓 and yes i am aware that there are more weakpoints on the body than just the head, it was only an example

[terse bronze]

It's 15thc

1430-1480

[copper loom]

no, 15th would mean its 1500-1599

[terse bronze]

...

[golden ingot]

🥴

[copper loom]

fourteen hundreds

[terse bronze]

Are you trolling

[copper loom]

dawg the mods have said 14th

im not trolling

[golden ingot]

Fourteen hundred=15th century

[terse bronze]

1400s is the 15th century

[fleet junco]

When ur thinking ur not thinking

[copper loom]

oh my bad i see it now

[fleet junco]

Its the 21st century and its 2124

[golden ingot]

Well yea isn’t that a one handed mace, how tf you gonna hit someone anywhere else besides the head on horseback💀

[copper loom]

🤦‍♂️

[turbid shadow]

eep

[gritty ridge]

Perhaps they had Inspector Gadget extendo-arms?

[copper loom]

imma go buy me the cheapest shotgun and 1 shell

[terse bronze]

Zzzz

[gritty ridge]

Infantry Pavise shields are blessed.

[golden ingot]

Realistically how many people had full plate harnesses in the 15th century

[robust tendon]

men at arms

[gritty ridge]

Probably most professional soldiers.

[robust tendon]

nahhh

[golden ingot]

Idk about that

[terse bronze]

Me

[golden ingot]

Round of applause

[robust tendon]

They were well armored, but full harness is mostly for people with attendants

which only wealthy fighting men had

[robust tendon]

literally kevlar

[golden ingot]

I dunno if I’d count that as a full plate harness

[gritty ridge]

Hmm, well, maybe you're right. But by the 1400's, there are a lot of workshops making a lot of armour.

[terse bronze]

No it's not

Just wanted to post it without context cuz it's awesomesauce

[robust tendon]

the poster

[golden ingot]

True

[turbid shadow]

forgot the other fellas

[golden ingot]

I downloaded blender so I’mma start designing knights on it

[gritty ridge]

Damn, 'Sue'? That's a powerful male name.

[golden ingot]

Some fancy pants full harnesses

[robust tendon]

byeah

like brigandine

and cuirasses, maille, and helms

[robust tendon]

To get full harness you typically had to commission it

it’s not out of the question that a professional would own one

[gritty ridge]

I suppose it's more a question of how high was the quality, perhaps.

[robust tendon]

but it’s not many of them

yea it is

[gritty ridge]

Lower grade armour would be pretty ubiquitous.

[robust tendon]

Munitions stuff, or gear not made to order, is made with lower quality steel

[golden ingot]

Using Dell’arte della Guerra as my historical reference

[turbid shadow]

two men

Arm harness

armory

[terse bronze]

brobably..

[turbid shadow]

weakest scull cap user

[turbid shadow]

hopefully you'll see shit like this in kinstrife

interesting kit that has an armet ontop of a gothic harness [pretty sure its fantasy]

[gritty ridge]

I don't know... As I understand it, Close Helms (so to say) were also considered Armets during the period, and the style of closing was mostly personal choice.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/34262
This is, 16th Century;

https://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMP/eMuseumPlus?service=ExternalInterface&module=collection&objectId=60655&viewType=detailView
As is this.

[terse bronze]

close helms were even called celada sometimes

(sallet)

because celada was used my italians to describe a helmet

[gritty ridge]

Historical word usage is interesting, actually.

[turbid shadow]

this effigy goes so fucking hard

the guy that is in the effigy is Giannone Caracciolo, Neapel i think

[gritty ridge]

Could it be..?

[terse bronze]

he's so me

[turbid shadow]

the reincarnation

[terse bronze]

i've been so brainrot by this meme back then that when i have my picture taken with a group of friends of anything I always hit that pose

[turbid shadow]

he looks so cool [out of the time period for the game, posted it for the silly]

[terse bronze]

the gendarme

[neat zephyr]

I hereby concede defeat. Everything has been crowned

[civic glade]

In the fourth picture, does it look like the rear guys left hand is going between the front guys legs to you? Its hard to make out

[lost zealot]

fancy barbute

any idea from what century is this ?

[torpid urchin]

No

[fleet junco]

1600

[inner pelican]

I think 1460, Italian

[fleet junco]

1479

[lost zealot]

ok thx

[stuck pelican]

This is actually from the correct time period, his steed will be added

[void stream]

Source: BSB Clm 3003 Speculum humanae salvationis

[bright token]

How do I describe the shape of the top part of the plackart? A lily flower?

The flower thing that I circle

[terse bronze]

Yes

[fleet junco]

Stole from the french

[terse bronze]

fleur de lys are a pretty common symbol accross europe tbh

[fleet junco]

I guess

[turbid shadow]

*** The Hausbuch of Wolfegg – one of the greatest works of the late Middle Ages ***
1470-1480 Germany - Hausbuch Wolfegg

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1440-1445 - 'St. Michael' (probably Jost Haller), Église Saint-Thomas, Strasbourg, dép. Bas-Rhin, France

ca. 1445-1450 - 'Christ before Pilate, Heisterbach Altar' (Meister des Heisterbacher Altars), Köln, Staatsgalerie, Bamberg, Bayern, Germany

1467-1471 - 'reliquary of Charles the Bold presented by St. George' (Gérard Loyet), Lille, Cathédrale Saint-Paul, Liège, province of Liège, Belgium

[turbid shadow]

1480 - 'shieldbearer', Koïfhus/Ancienne Douane, Colmar, dép. Haut-Rhin, France

[round marten]

war hammers

?

[terse bronze]

war hammers

?

[maiden osprey]

war hammers

?

[edgy narwhal]

Hausbuch my beloved

[void stream]

what type of shield is this bro?

Now this is a goofy face

[terse bronze]

A pavise, possibly mantlet

[void stream]

I ended up finding this image that really is a pavise shield, from what the image shows, this style of pavise was used by soldiers who used crossbows

[torpid urchin]

Bouche pavise idfk

Is it fictional?

[terse bronze]

no

[vocal vale]

sallet with klappvisor mounted hounskull

also the guy seems to not be using the aventail

[terse bronze]

That's just a bascinet

i think that fresco is like from 1380 ?

ish

you see bascinets with that sallet ahh shape even back in the 1360

[vocal vale]

is there a particular factor that differentiates the two or is it just a sorites deal where there’s just a big grey area

because to me that is DEFINITELY a sallet

[white fulcrum]

it’s easier to tell from the front but even from a side view that peaked part of the top of the helmet is usually a sign that it’s a bascinet of some sort, whereas sallets are usually more rounded at the top (tho ofc not all bascinets have that peak and a few sallets do, it’s just a rule of thumb to me anyways)

also dating helps since sallets didn’t really exist until around the mid 15th century I think?

[vocal vale]

any helmet with nape protection of that caliber i'd consider a sallet

[vernal hornet]

Gun

[devout lynx]

i need a skibidi toilet armor

[devout lynx]

we need cameramen swords!!!1!

[turbid shadow]

if you don't have actually anything to add here then don't

[robust tendon]

can we kill this guy

[turbid shadow]

The Bethlehem Infanticide, Master of Uttenheim, ca. 1470, from the Neustift monastery in Brixen, South Tyrol. Exhibited in the old Eggenberg Castle Gallery, Graz, Styria.

[devout lynx]

man im afraid of old paintings

[robust tendon]

that plumed and orled kettle is really nice

[neat zephyr]

May I ask, why is sallet was so popular in this time period compared to other helmets like an armet? The side and back neck seems quite exposed for someone to stab with a dagger. Maybe also the temples too if the dagger is long enough/a sword thrust from below.

In terms of visibility, the neck guard never have holes on them like most armet visors or typical bascinet visors so they can see downwards. I don't see how sallet would be good in visibility

[supple quartz]

U sober going into the museum?

[terse bronze]

Sallets can be very versatile

visorless, full visor, half visor, bevor (or not), visor lifted but bevor up, vice versa ect

There's places where armets (for men-at-arms) were more popular than sallets

like italy for instance

some sallets can have those too

you can also tilt a sallet up to "transform" it into a kettle

you can't really do all that with an armet, so as usual it always boils down to what do you prioritize between protection, modularity, breathing ect

That isn't to say armets are bad helmets far from that, they are just different

[neat zephyr]

Ah thank you! Very informative

[flat warren]

This is really beautiful, anything else similar you like?

[turbid shadow]

the opposites

Dequitem versus The famous kastenbrust man

Interesting Great bascinet

[cerulean salmon]

This entire channel is awesome

https://youtube.com/@dequitem?si=3_d-Y--XP15F3DcT

[white fulcrum]

sir mark caple my man

[turbid shadow]

He is being made

[turbid shadow]

*** 1430 Germany, BAV Pal. lat. 1888 - Bellifortis***

[short ice]

Hell yeah. Ive been subbed to him for a few months now

He is wicked awesome. Loved his video on maces

Correction - he has done several more videos on maces since.

I'm talking about the 20 minute one debating swords vs maces

[short ice]

Are you making this???

[vagrant charm]

who is making him

[vocal vale]

third image goes crazy

[vocal vale]

the video where he falls face first into the snow and almost drowns is crazy

[stuck pelican]

I wonder how many hours of work goes into just planning how to make these

[stuck pelican]

Pretty sure it’s somebodies else’s, from what I know Fencer is not a person who creates harnesses of his own

[white fulcrum]

blugh

[stuck pelican]

So true

[fleet junco]

The left cuirass

[bright token]

beautiful sallet made by Francois L'Archeveque, he said this one is Northern European style so I guess a common style worn by french, burgundian, english, flemish, etc knights and soldiers?

[lost zealot]

magnificent

[nimble quest]

petition for a medieval flail or whip

maybe a spiked shield or 2 also

[lost zealot]

post this in feedback

not here

[nimble quest]

literally 1984

[lost zealot]

wdym ?

1984 ?

[lost zealot]

wdym by 1984 ?

[nimble quest]

do u not know jorjorwell

[lost zealot]

no ?

[nimble quest]

george orwell

[terse bronze]

yes

[nimble quest]

nvm

[lost zealot]

who's that ?

[terse bronze]

doesn't fit the game

[nimble quest]

how so

[nimble quest]

https://www.google.com/search?q=george+orwell&oq=george+or&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDQgAEAAY4wIYsQMYgAQyDQgAEAAY4wIYsQMYgAQyCggBEC4YsQMYgAQyBggCEEUYOTIKCAMQLhixAxiABDIKCAQQABixAxiABDIHCAUQLhiABDIHCAYQABiABDIKCAcQABixAxiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABKgCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[terse bronze]

First image is 16thC., second is an indo-persian shield from at the miminum 16thc

[nimble quest]

ohh you're going for european only ok gotchui

[lost zealot]

ohh ok

[nimble quest]

didn't realize

[terse bronze]

this topic got discussed a lot in here, and yes they would be cool but actual flails as seen in 15thc sources, not whatever those are

[terse bronze]

1430-80 Western Europe yes

[nimble quest]

ouch, well i just got ref images for ideas but ill do my research next time. Didn't realize it was such a sensetive topic

[lost zealot]

i suggest that you research the sources of the image before posting

[nimble quest]

refer to my last comment

[terse bronze]

now you know

[turbid shadow]

no the opposite, arms and armor references should be here

[nimble quest]

yeah i do

[lost zealot]

ok then, i mean you could also post it in feedback as an suggestion right ?

[turbid shadow]

yea

[terse bronze]

It's weird if you suggest certain precise weapons and armors, everyone gonna suggest random ass katanas or indian weapons cuz "it lookz coolz"

[turbid shadow]

here and feedback works

[lost zealot]

fr fr

[lost zealot]

yeah

[terse bronze]

the devs actually check this channel so if you post interesting designs that fits the game it basically count as a suggestion

[lost zealot]

oh really ?

[terse bronze]

pretty much

[lost zealot]

sounds nice

[nimble quest]

well they each have unique functionality and its a game, people want variance because it adds stuff to the game. If you cant code say that?

[turbid shadow]

yeah ivan [3d director for Half sword] does look here

[lost zealot]

cool

[terse bronze]

none of the things i said fits the game tho

that's my issue with the suggestions of "unique" weapons ect

[nimble quest]

are you the creator of the game?

[lost zealot]

no hes not

[nimble quest]

then why are you so uptight about adding stuff

[terse bronze]

Are you an idiot

[nimble quest]

no im confused why you are on a high horse

[terse bronze]

this is pinned btw

[lost zealot]

hes just a silly fella that love medieval game n stuff i guess

[nimble quest]

ok thanks?

we established that but be nicer. will make people want to play instead of avoiding the community

[nimble quest]

seems like he loves it too much

its just strange is all.

[terse bronze]

Why would you want katanas and asian stuff in a video game that tries to have a very distinct and unique identity set in 1430-1480 Western Europe ? What's so "uptight" about wanting to have some sort of fitting inbetween cosmetics and weapons

That's what i'm saying

[nimble quest]

well notice i never said it had to be in the base game

[terse bronze]

Sorry bro it's my passion bro, am I allowed to ?

[nimble quest]

i just meant there should be availability to add those weapons should you want to try out new combat

nothing more, nothing less

[nimble quest]

hey im not hating on what you love but be nicer next time yeah?

[terse bronze]

tf you mean "be nicer"

Where was I rude lol

[livid urchin]

.

[lost zealot]

here comes the drama 💀

[terse bronze]

Before that i mean

[nimble quest]

seems a little passive agressive

[terse bronze]

this one was deserved

[livid urchin]

Nope still rude tho

[nimble quest]

anyways im not a drama head

[terse bronze]

it's in yo head

[nimble quest]

but i clarified that i wanted to add weapons and you said it was stupid

thats not constructive thats just being an ass

[livid urchin]

Get some popcorn lmao

[terse bronze]

Would be so awesome to have this estoc .. but it's dated 1490 ... 😔

[lost zealot]

ill get some

[terse bronze]

Cuz it depends what you want to add tbh

[nimble quest]

im not upset about the content of the game its your character

just learn some manners lol

[turbid shadow]

I made a thread actually https://discord.com/channels/1043854763189600337/1241281101138366495

[terse bronze]

learn to not see passive aggressiveness outta nowhere...

[terse bronze]

awesome

[lost zealot]

Ow crap, time for showdown !

[nimble quest]

bahaha

hippo

crit!

[livid urchin]

lmaooo

[livid urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-meme-confused-gif-24780938

[nimble quest]

ok im not wasting a beautiful saturday inside talking with an angry zweihander wielding kiddo

[lost zealot]

TING TING ! FIGHT

[nimble quest]

enjoy your saturday guys

[nimble quest]

except @terse bronze i hope you feel bad about your choice of words

[turbid shadow]

did he really hurt you lol

[terse bronze]

wish I had a spadone ngl

[livid urchin]

😂

[nimble quest]

yes im crying at my keyboard

and tweeting

[livid urchin]

😢

[terse bronze]

that's pretty mean

[lost zealot]

just that ? aw cmon man, i want a show down ! not a kindergarten fight !

[livid urchin]

yes

[lost zealot]

no more fight

[nimble quest]

imagine the reverb if u fart in that

[terse bronze]

?

[livid urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-awkward-gif-20874314

[stuck pelican]

💔

[lost zealot]

yo folks, just found this image, what weapon is this ?

[bright token]

I guess that counts as a war hammer. A fancy one too

interesting helm, heres the sauce https://www.pinterest.com/pin/45599014965724640/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/631981760224100712/

Some cool 15th century swords

[turbid shadow]

14th century references thread 1390-1425 [do tell me if you have a better time frame for the 14th century]

[white fulcrum]

bro does NOT look into it

[turbid shadow]

he looks very defeated

[prisma raven]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-emoji-rage-gif-2922587064166244739

[turbid shadow]

yeah he looks very dope

[lone topaz]

Serbian buhurt gear

[terse bronze]

yippie!!

[void stream]

I know it's out of the game's time period but I thought it would be cool to show Henry II of France's armor here because of the details and much more

[civic glade]

The two piece knuckle guard on the gauntlets is inspired

[civic glade]

Is this russeted?

[lost zealot]

interesting sallets 🤔

also, cool painted sallets, i hope its the 14th century ((:

[terse bronze]

I think the left one is the sallet under that one lion head

[terse bronze]

15thc* (and 16thc) , 1490s-1520s

important to note that these so called "black sallets" were not originally painted but covered

out of the game's date unfortunately (for now)

[lost zealot]

for now

[terse bronze]

yeah plenty of good stuff in the 90s

hope the game will eventually cover at least that decade in the future

[lost zealot]

yeah

[lost zealot]

how about the barbute looking sallet ?

[terse bronze]

https://www.metmuseum.org/fr/art/collection/search/22860 the sallet look a bit like this one, I think it might be the exact same

dated 1460-80 so it fits

[lost zealot]

cool

[livid urchin]

This is super cool

[lost zealot]

indeed

[lost zealot]

YAY im soo hapi

[vocal vale]

wouldnt them being covered make them weird and soggy sometimes?

[terse bronze]

no..?

[lost zealot]

soggy ? da fak ?

[vocal vale]

roflbbq

they're covered with velvet and crap right

[lost zealot]

What kind of human being spread his own shit on his helmet dawg ?

[golden ingot]

Little something for death from blunt head injuries

[vocal vale]

[torpid urchin]

The kind that values their stuff? It’s called marking your territory smh

[sullen charm]

what even is this

[torpid urchin]

Rigor mortis

[golden ingot]

It is not rigor mortis

When you get IICP from blunt head trauma your body has these flexions

Usually means you’re dead

Or, it’s a terminal event meaning you’re gonna die very soon

[undone barn]

English sallet with separate eye slits

Brigandine burgonet

[vocal vale]

outside of time period but still wacky lookin

[copper nova]

Perfect for having absolutely no sight whatsoever

[undone barn]

So What time is this 1400-1450?

[vocal vale]

1430-1480

[undone barn]

hmmm

[turbid shadow]

1430 De Germany, BAV Pal. lat. 1888 - Bellifortis

[terse bronze]

it's not brigandine

[toxic breach]

What is the belt on the front of the cuirass for?

[terse bronze]

this?

[toxic breach]

Yes

[terse bronze]

It's to attach the breastplate to the placard

[turbid shadow]

Need it to keep the placard i think

Yep

[toxic breach]

They are using those pins for boards to duel

[terse bronze]

certified grugg duel

[turbid shadow]

Yeah this ms is super duper good

[terse bronze]

the breastplate without placard

[golden ingot]

I don’t think it’s appropriate to send gore references

But uh, I got em

[turbid shadow]

Gore references? Like actual gore?

If so than that’s a big no no