references♥_1450-1470

[sullen charm]

😢

[potent wraith]

https://i.redd.it/zi118vazxk5c1.jpeg

[fleet junco]

Is that made out of couch

[white fulcrum]

the hell is this lmao

[edgy narwhal]

this chart is weird and stupid

[potent wraith]

hahaha yeah it kind of is

[sullen charm]

he's so me

[stuck pelican]

Medieval battles in harnesses is like..

watching two tuna cans try to pry eachother open

[turbid shadow]

Da velvet barbute

[sullen charm]

velvet sallet 😍

[stuck pelican]

How effective is brig..

[white fulcrum]

effective enough

:D

[stuck pelican]

https://youtube.com/shorts/NQVm4fWNQz0?si=fGBdwA26M6Mu5mlq

This skirt is pretty cool

https://youtu.be/2tvK7rwDJMY?si=Ey-YQnHjaBEAYW7K

@sullen charm What do you think about this

Also his bronze maces I’ve noticed aren’t uhh.. the head dosent cover the top it’s more of a cylinder with stuff around a stick

[robust tendon]

It is

Pretty sure thatd work in game as paired with kastenbrust armor

[stuck pelican]

I feel like it would be performance heavy

[robust tendon]

Eh doubtful

Unless they have every single scale of the skirt have its own physics

which is stupid since you could probably give it cloth physics or none at all for it to look good

[sullen charm]

think about what In particular ? Haven't seen that vid

[sullen charm]

Yeah, earlier maces (iron, bronze..) were pretty small in comparison to what most ppl think, and they come in multiple shape and sizes (depending on era and area) you have balls, square/pyramids, "cucumber" (elongated) hell even maceheads with faces on it

[sullen charm]

Pretty effective, they wouldn't use it if it wasn't ! (only thing is that it's more demanding in terms of maintenance ect.. That's partially why, even tho they can totally wear brigandines, Charles the Bold prefered his archers wearing jacks ! And a similar things is said for franc-archer in the french ordonnances. Jacks were overall prefered over brigandines because brigs would require maintenance tools that a single man cannot bear alone)

But that didn't stop myriads of ppl to use brigandines anyway

[stuck pelican]

@sullen charm How effective would a basic sallet be against one of those low end maces ingame

Because it.. One shot me?

[white fulcrum]

mace one shot you cause game logic (they do too much damage..)

[stuck pelican]

He killed me with the stick end it turns out.

[sullen charm]

medieval maces actually have a miniaturized demon core in them

[stuck pelican]

What were maces so useful against if not armor, wouldnt a sword overall beat them in basically all regard against soft body enemies without armor

https://medal.tv/games/half-sword/clips/1Je4fnIijgHCjV/d1337EJTXHLQ?invite=cr-MSx3QmEsNjc4OTc3MDMs

[sullen charm]

you mean IRL ?

[stuck pelican]

Yeah

[sullen charm]

Maces on foot lost popularity when plate armors coveredmore and where more "popular"

that has to mean something (that you, by yourself, cannot develop enough force to do anything to/through plate, you need a force multiplier, and even then it's still difficult to beat armor)

Swords stayed popular, even in the age of plate harness because they were pretty versatile

And since you aint doing shit to steel plates with your "bare hands" then you go around it, and that's exactly what the one handed maces stayed for the vast majority for horsemen use and swords became thinner and thinner while plate was more covering

So in a harness vs harness fight, if you have the choice bewteen a mace and a sword : pick the sword

Now if you're wearing maille like during the 12-13thc for instance, well, it's up to you

[rich totem]

maces are very good against flesh for the most part

you dont have to worry about edge alignment or false edge cuts because its just a bludgeon

anything non-rigid, you could pretty easily break bones with a mace against a lightly armored or unarmored target

[stuck pelican]

@sullen charm What are those weird daggers i always see on knights

With the big circular guard and stuff

[white fulcrum]

rondel daggers

i think is what you're referring to

[stuck pelican]

I think. Why did they use them

Yep

Why use them over like.. Basic daggers

[white fulcrum]

personal preference ig

[stuck pelican]

Also when I see recreational fights. Why do they take off their armored glove and then grab the dagger

[sullen charm]

Idk for sure but if i had to guess i'd say it's easier to stab with them

[white fulcrum]

ease

though it's not always they do that

[sullen charm]

reverse grip + your offhand on the other end of the dagger and you just push your entire weight down someone's throat

[stuck pelican]

Bossk do you know why they use rondel daggers

over like basic daggers when like

trying to stab at knights on the ground

[sullen charm]

.

That would be my guess

[white fulcrum]

i dont think it makes a difference, rather it's just a fashion thing

[sullen charm]

prolly just easier to use with gauntlets aswell

[white fulcrum]

cause you can still do it with a different type of dagger handle

[stuck pelican]

Oh. They were MADE for reverse grip and cqc. Used for puncturing and bursting links in mail,

Thats why they were used by knights

[sullen charm]

I don't think i've seen rondel daggers used outside of fighting unlike say bollocks daggers that you see in normal situations, just clothing ppl ect

But I didn't look into it much so might be wrong

[stuck pelican]

Bollocks is balls.. Im guessing it has like 2 balls on the bottom or something

[white fulcrum]

it has balls underneath the crossguard

[white fulcrum]

silly average sized thing

[stuck pelican]

Oh yeah Ive seen those plentiful in art

[stuck pelican]

Hey red and bossk, give me a run down on your ideal type of weapon arsenal in a 15th century medieval combat, like specifics not just sheild and sword (in #general-catfish-🐱🐟 )

[rich totem]

its a LOT easier to grab without a gauntlet, especially when most gauntlets people use in modern times do not have segmented fingers

the segmented fingers make it a lot easier to break your fingers when fighting, and generally in HEMA you dont want yours or your friends fingers getting broken

[robust tendon]

milanese harness, 1440 ish

“Avant” armor, still 1440 ish

english plate

[stuck pelican]

💜

[smoky topaz]

Little late to the party but there are a few reasons rondel daggers were preferred, of course ultimately it comes down personal choice and what was common/popular/in style at the time

Some rondel daggers had handles that effectively locked into your gauntlet while gripped

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055560006407303188/1185087475564150895/TC1Rondel_10_1200x1200.png?ex=658e55b8&is=657be0b8&hm=f8d1e2d869e1851bc3561c58dea3ae30c032390d17c1decdbfd3e7bea62cc60f& like this one

Your gauntlet would close around the handle and all the gaps in your hand armor would be protected by the disks on the dagger

Also, when you're holding a dagger this way, it can be hard to find edge alignment, so instead of having an edge, they opted for thicker, stiffer blade, which are better for working their way into gaps

Some of them had triangular cross sections which are also impossible to stitch shut if you get stabbed with it

[rich totem]

i may be mistaken but would having 3 edges also not be better for piercing weak sections of chainmail and padding? putting force on 3 surfaces instead of just 2 like a traditional cutting dagger

[smoky topaz]

No. The goal was never to pierce plate armor

especially with a dagger, you're aiming for the gaps between plates

And even in piercing chainmail or cloth armor, it gives virtually no resistance once the hole is made on contact

[rich totem]

ive heard conflicting reports about daggers defeating chainmail but i guess its hard to actually decisively say since theres such a huge variety in chain and daggers both

obviously the dagger would never pierce any kind of hardened steel plate armor

[rare tapir]

Spider Helmet is so goofy

[turbid shadow]

hits

[robust tendon]

nice trimmed brigandine/cozarrina, 1440(?)

[robust tendon]

Lesser known german harness, roughly 15th century by the source

variations of a kolbenturnier bascinet’s crest

since these were made for specific tournament use it may not make sense outside of that, but i still quite like the look of them

perhaps there could be a kolbenturnier in game and would have these, idk

[robust tendon]

Doubtful. You’re not really supposed to cut with the thing

Its a bit like a spike on a small stick

meant to pierce weak points when you get close to your opponent

Such as maille voiders perhaps

or just an unarmored gap.

And also i think that rondels can pierce maille but you definitely have to really stab into em to get through

Which, of course, is easier said than it is done on a resisting opponent

yet another museum piece

I quite like this one

[white fulcrum]

STOP SPREADING THIS STUPID IMAGE AAAAA

ITS COMPLETELY WRONG

MEDIEVAL ARMOUR IS NOT BIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION

[turbid shadow]

facts

[silk crest]

Yes i know. I just like how styled this

[robust tendon]

indeed fencah

[stuck pelican]

Isn’t it a little. With time more protection and types of styling

[white fulcrum]

It differs enough

[stuck pelican]

Of course

[sullen charm]

1450s* https://www.khm.at/objektdb/detail/372283/ (was made for Frederick the Victorious)

[sullen charm]

way earlier than that

[sullen charm]

full pic

[sullen charm]

ca. 1450 - 'composite Kastenbrust armour', South German, Wien Museum Karlsplatz, Wien, Austria

(https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/2043648782/in/album-72157603211510771/)

[outer cave]

I need this zaddy!

[outer cave]

And this!

I'm scratching and itching for new armor

[robust tendon]

Yeah i was aware that cozarina were around in the late 14th, just not fully sure if the design was entirely phased out by the 15th century

[sullen charm]

Eventually it was yes

[edgy narwhal]

oo another surviving kastenbrust

[sullen charm]

My fav still remains the glasgow one

[edgy narwhal]

the fluted one?

[sullen charm]

ye

[sullen charm]

this is outdated

every time someone uses this image i die a little

everytime someone post a chart like that a small cat(1cm) dies !!!

[robust tendon]

field armor of maximillian I, 1480

german cuirass, 1450

[vocal vale]

i really like dean's phylogenies but they're not quite accurate in a few areas

they're mostly good for broadly illustrating variations of pieces rather than a strict timeline of when they were used and how they developed

[fleet junco]

Very nice kasten

[stuck pelican]

No shoulder straps?

[sullen charm]

they probably just didn' survive

or weren't in a decent enough shape to be displayed

[robust tendon]

I was thinking that the cuirass is shaped in a way that doesnt need straps

or perhaps you just cant see them from the angle

Not sure

[sullen charm]

i mean

[lapis hamlet]

Not sure if this is a fact or fake as I've seen it on a discord server, but the thought of Great Bascinets like the Palazzo one having their lower bits covered in textile is neat.

[stuck pelican]

Honestly, without that front like emblem stuff and on the top of the helmet

I’d love it

I’m guessing it’s more ceremony than actual war helmet

[patent halo]

my dumbass thought the black circles were googles

[sullen charm]

Would you happen to be in a discord server called "Low effort armoury" .... ???

[sullen charm]

why would that be

[stuck pelican]

a bit too much. I know in Japan they had helmets with stupidly big horns to show power and stuff, but that was ceremonial

[sullen charm]

I think the helm is from a depiction of Saint Georges

[lapis hamlet]

Yeah, I own the server itself. The guy who used to run it traded ownership of it over to me.

[sullen charm]

Too lazy to find it rn... ❌

[sullen charm]

Nice, asking cuz I posted the exact same images in it a bit ago :333

[lapis hamlet]

Oh, my bad then lol. Still, glad we both find it cool tho!

[sullen charm]

Nah nah you good

Definitely !!

[sullen charm]

Nvm i'm stopid it's from The Battle of San Romano by Paolo Uccello c. 1435-1460

And The Counterattack of Michelotto da Cotignola at the Battle of San Romano (c. 1455)

@stuck pelican

[lapis hamlet]

Fancy!

[sullen charm]

Also on the repro note how high the back rondel is ! Directly inspired by this illustration of Saint George attributed to Hugo van der Goes. c1480-90

[turbid shadow]

yeah what happened to him?

quite curious because I think he did delete his discord accounts multiple of times

[sullen charm]

I think he's still active in the 1212ad mod for total war attila

[lapis hamlet]

Yeah, he's taking a discord hiatus

Will rejoin in about 2-4 years time in his own words.

[turbid shadow]

Alright

he's a nice fella, hoping he is doing well

[lapis hamlet]

Aye.

[full grove]

hi

how can i choose the map?

[turbid shadow]

you can't currently

@lapis hamlet You still in contact with Tibi And Dey?

[lapis hamlet]

Their accounts here in this platform have gone radio silent unfortunately.

[turbid shadow]

They seem to be active on twitter

I've actually had a conversation with them a few days ago

[full grove]

I need to wait for the release?

[turbid shadow]

No, the Beta will be updated soon enough to include the maps

Arena mode basically

[full grove]

okay

thx

[turbid shadow]

It was regarding Burgundy as a faction for BB

[robust tendon]

yeah

[robust tendon]

half sword really needs some armets and great bascinets, too many sallets tbh

[turbid shadow]

we will probably get them eventually

[robust tendon]

hope so, great basc is prob my favorite helm of the 15th ct

[stuck pelican]

Personally I don’t like those basically extra addons on helmets, unless it’s like a feather or one of those roll looking things

[robust tendon]

I quite like the ornaments

Not on that particular armet though

the weird black disk things just look weird

i like ornaments that represent family crests and such

plumes are also a classic “knight” helm ornament

[sullen charm]

they're jewels

[robust tendon]

i see

itd be better if it was finer more colorful jewels

bejeweled helms could look pretty nice

[white fulcrum]

i think jewels would look best on a crown crest tbh

[robust tendon]

i do wonder if they have normal helms and not crowns that are bejeweled

[white fulcrum]

tho jewels would be a cool ass design for the hinges

[robust tendon]

It would

[white fulcrum]

could serve a similar purpose to ear rondels too

[robust tendon]

But i very much doubt that they did that

Other than the jewels i quite like the armet, the crest on the top is quite nice

[fleet junco]

Can we get voiders

[vocal vale]

hoooollyyyyy fuuuck

i want that guy to adopt me

[stuck pelican]

That’s pretty cool

[stuck pelican]

Well! He clearly took off that giant metal part for a feather part. Which would totally work unlike before

[lyric light]

wouldnt be heavy, would be hollow

[edgy narwhal]

crests are nothing out of the ordinary, in all periods and regions

you would be surprised what people wore into battle

[vocal vale]

armor based off greenwich armor from the jacob album

[sullen charm]

Completely out of the scope of the game.. sadly..

[vocal vale]

oh is this channel for adding stuff to half sword

i thought this was just an "oogle at historical stuff" channel

i guess i never thought about it

or is it not and i misunderstood your message as a "no, this cant be added to the game" rather than a "man, im bummed this cant be in game"

[sullen charm]

I feel like the references channel is for references for the game

But bummed this cant be in the game anyway

[vocal vale]

personally the 1500s are when armor starts getting to homogenous for me

like they figured it out enough that everything starts looking the same

[sullen charm]

good thing the same is max 1480 then

[turbid shadow]

maybe if half sword becomes really successful we can get a dlc that takes place on the 16th cent or some shit like that

[edgy narwhal]

Or early 1400s

[old sky]

does anyone here know a thing or 2 about castles?

[edgy narwhal]

I guess a little, what do you need?

[old sky]

i have no idea what goes into a castle

what are the prorities

what would you find a small castle?

context, im building a semi historical castle in minecraft

[edgy narwhal]

a very small castle could just consist out of the house, made from stone and a wall around it or creating a courtyard

[old sky]

what would be in the house?

[edgy narwhal]

hills are usually preferred

[edgy narwhal]

it would be the living place of the owner, so usually a "great hall" with a fireplace. Later in the 14th to 15th century wooden cells would be put into those halls to divide them up into individual living spaces

a stable, a place to store food and a well for waterwould also be needed

[old sky]

hmm

[edgy narwhal]

most of these castles were not build to withstand a siege, but rather as a fortified home against smaller incursions

[old sky]

i see

[edgy narwhal]

they would also be the place from wich the owner managed his estates

[old sky]

what would you put in space this size?

[stuck pelican]

12 tables

[edgy narwhal]

seems overall a bit small

storage maybe

a good start would be to look at the blueprints of actual castles

to get the idea

[old sky]

this is how it looks whole fyi

[edgy narwhal]

here is some very cool manuscript miniatures from 15th century switzerland

they show some smaller castles

[old sky]

love me some cool manustripts

[edgy narwhal]

some more

[old sky]

thanks

[edgy narwhal]

np

note that it was preferred to whitewash castles from the outside

bare stone would not be seen often

[old sky]

do you have any manuscripts of the inside?

[edgy narwhal]

hm let me see what I can find

[edgy narwhal]

here is some looks into houses of the late 15th century

note that in a lot of cases the walls are boarded with wood for comfort

[old sky]

this is amazing!

[edgy narwhal]

most of these are burghers homes so upper class, should suit well for an knightly estate as well

[old sky]

thankyou, this is very helpful

[edgy narwhal]

no problem at all

[sullen charm]

@old sky I have some pics of 12-13thC. southern French castle ruins i can DM them to you if you wanna take inspiration from them

[old sky]

That would be great

[sullen charm]

done

[stuck pelican]

@sullen charm Isnt this like a sallet from england

[vocal vale]

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/748790

dope

[vocal vale]

i've only seen the weird brow plate on italian sallets

and a lot of italian sallets had those lining rivets

[sullen charm]

Italian OR burgundian/french (they ad relatively similar ones)

ex: italian

Burgundian/french

[reef cloud]

Looks to be more likely the Italian one

[stuck pelican]

Why do I love everything the Italians made

Their armors are just so pleasant

[edgy narwhal]

ROUND

[vocal vale]

perhaps the style of pauldrons depicted here?

similar shaping

im a big fan of the overlapping shoulderblades

[stuck pelican]

This would be a cool boss

Boss #4's brother

I really want to see a truely advanced AI

Which tries to pry in your armor, or push you over

Same with lunges foward and back to avoid and strike you

[stuck pelican]

16th century?

[vocal vale]

late 15th early 16th

it's from the Thun Sketchbook

[vocal vale]

there's that if you want it

illustrations and modern notations

[stuck pelican]

How'd you know?

[vocal vale]

i look at it and it's in the style of the illustrations from the thun sketchbook

the longer you research arms and armor the more easier you can recognize different artstyles

[stuck pelican]

What century is this?

I think 14th - 15th

Due to the armet

[vocal vale]

i drew that one

pretty sure its late 15th

14th is the 1300s which was before armets or traditionally gothic armor

would've been hounskulls and the introduction of brigandines and such

also check it, its a sallet-armet hybrid

rivets on the back for the lining

[sullen charm]

I'm pretty sure that just a sallet

and not the close helmets from the end of the century

[sullen charm]

Also this is highly composite so

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24814

read more here

[stuck pelican]

By composite you mean like mixed v

[sullen charm]

yes

with original pieces that doesn't belong on it & reproduction pieces

[stuck pelican]

Well. Looks like it worked well as his armor isn’t destroyed or like rusted to all hell

[sullen charm]

Composite means it was put together by modern ppl

like they found the cuirass and gauntlets together, then took arms from different "set" that is vaguely the same era, made some repro for the legs ect for example

it doesn't mean that a dude in the late 1400 had that exact armor

Just read up the museum entry

[stuck pelican]

Oh

[vocal vale]

i’d suppose the method of opening disqualifies it from being an armet but i think the visor could make a case for it being a kind of hybrid

i mean, when it comes down to it, it is just a weird looking sallet

[edgy narwhal]

well it really has more in common with a bascinet than with with an armet

[vocal vale]

i’d suppose that’s true

[ancient pivot]

it's just a sallet with a full face visor, I think you're over complicating things

[robust tendon]

this is a composite bunch of stuff from different periods

it's collected from an armory iirc

you wouldn't see this actually worn in field

[vocal vale]

how is it from "different periods"?

[robust tendon]

it's got armor from the 14-15th ct

it's like have cozzarina style brigandine with a sallet

just wouldn't be seen together in an actual battlefield

[vocal vale]

really the only odd things i see are some mixes of italian and german pieces

im not seeing anything that strikes me as out of the 15th century

[robust tendon]

hm yeah i seem to have misremembered something

seen that piece before and i remembered it saying something along that it has armor from different periods

[vocal vale]

goals

[sullen charm]

Visors don't and never define what a helmet is

example, this is a bascinet, even if it has a "sallet" visor

It's not an hybrid or whatever, it's a full on bascinet

(just with a different visor you'd see typically)

[unborn tartan]

What are these called? What country are the paintings from?

[sullen charm]

if you're talking about the sort of coats half open on the front, they're called schecke, from germanic lands (but kinda spread abit in neighboring countries)

[outer cave]

Were rondels ever worn over surcoats/tabards?

[outer cave]

Like in the manuscript illustration and reconstructors armor

I mean the manuscript technically should answer my question but I only saw this single illustration depicting what I described

[vagrant charm]

Yes, sometimes people put their besagews over some kind of overcoat

[edgy narwhal]

usually if spaulders were worn under

[vagrant charm]

English armor refs

Pretty sure all of these fit in the time span of halfsword

[candid dawn]

This book is great! 🙂

[vagrant charm]

Ik

I love Toby capwell

[tepid edge]

Wonder when we'll get mail for the neck and other gaps

[obsidian sun]

Or maile in general

[small moss]

Last pic would be. Early to mid 15th century armours would be ignored if I'm correctly caught up with what the devs are deciding.

[vagrant charm]

Nah it’s 1430-1490 iirc

[vocal vale]

yeh

the grand bascinet guy would work

[fleet junco]

jack chains

[robust tendon]

c. 1450

funerary monument

[fleet junco]

what is that helmet

klappsvisor?

[robust tendon]

bascinet

[fleet junco]

why is it short

[robust tendon]

later variation with a "bevor" by the neck

not exactly short

[fleet junco]

ohhh

ok

[frail goblet]

Arab sheikh who wants to give me $8 million in paypal

[robust tendon]

it's essentially a visorless great basc

[edgy narwhal]

brah why are you posting this

[fleet junco]

bored

[edgy narwhal]

its pretty bad and out of the scope of the game

[robust tendon]

thats real bad

plastic looking maille

[fleet junco]

would be cool to see some gilding

[pliant minnow]

my roblox avatar

[stuck pelican]

hes so happy. so beautiful

[short ice]

HEY THIS IS MINE

[fleet junco]

no

[short ice]

(but angry)

[fleet junco]

ugh

[tender narwhal]

this is sick

[old sky]

why were falcions used? what advantages did they give over swords, from what ive seen many of them don't have points so why?

[fleet junco]

Chop

Just for like a sidearm for an archer or something

[pliant pollen]

they do better job at cutting than regular sword when fighting against no or minimal armor

[old sky]

is it because of the front heavy blade acting like middle point between a sword and an axe?

[fleet junco]

What the

Im pretty sure falchions werent that heavy

They had a pretty thin blade profile

[old sky]

not heavy, but front heavy

like this

[fleet junco]

oh

probably

[old sky]

im guessing the balance would be positioned more to the front as opposed to a sword

[rich totem]

falchions are very much for "cleaving" and use their comparatively heavy, thick blade, and strong spine for strong chopping

they weren't exactly heavy, but compared to other one handed swords of the time they would be comparatively

[fleet junco]

ok falchion for choppy chop use

aand sword for multi purpose use

or something

idk

[rich totem]

anecdotal but they would also serve well as an actual utility tool, since they have such good chopping blades you could basically use them as a machete

most falchions generally weren't for thrusting at all, but there are examples in artwork of thrusting falchions that have a sturdy point, which i think actually exist in half-sword rn

[pliant pollen]

Personally I'm waiting for sabres in the game

[rich totem]

i would love to see sabres in halfsword tbh, dont know of the devs would add them though

[old sky]

were sabres used in the 15th century?

[pliant pollen]

They would fit in the game lore nicely and as an extra I would love to roleplay a hussar that wrecks those pesky invaders despite being in numerical disadvantage

[old sky]

Halfsword has lore??

[pliant pollen]

not yet

just imagination of player 😄

[old sky]

come to think of it the HS demo could be purgatory, of the 5th level of hell

[pliant pollen]

it's just a Willie's dream

[edgy narwhal]

hussars were not a thing yet, also sabers were sadly not used in europe at the time. The closest you get are some messer or italian falchions

[old sky]

there is not a single game without dream theory

[rich totem]

sabres were fairly common to the eastern parts of europe and western eurasia when we're talking about medieval europe though they would be very uncommon

so most likely they wouldnt end up in the game since the game is focused on european arms and armor mostly of like... bohemia and west

but like gonadaan said a lot of messers and falchions were quite similar to eastern/southern sabres

[old sky]

oh right

forgot about the cumans

[upper seal]

ahh the fucken cumans

what about the Ottomans tho if we're talking about the 15th century

[sullen charm]

it's actuially not that front heavy

the point of balance is like a few cm above the guard like a lot of "regular" swords of the time

[old sky]

well i never held a falcion so i was basically guessing

thanks for the info

[sullen charm]

It's also not a middle ground between and axe and a sword

it's just a different sword

medieval italians were orks

[stuck pelican]

I think you mean the term fucking badass

[vocal vale]

those're called beidanas

supposedly the precursor to the maciejowski falchion

[sullen charm]

I don't think they are precursors, just common "evolution"

(agricultural/butcher tools turned weapons)

Just that beidanas stayed much much longer in use

do seem to "appear" approximately at the same as macie falchion

[robust tendon]

da choppa

[short ice]

he is ready to rumble

[bright token]

Helmet ref and kastenbrust armour (manifesting it will be in game🙏)

[vagrant charm]

Kasten best

[vocal vale]

that kastenbrust looks craazy

[vagrant charm]

He has my favorite harness of all time

[vocal vale]

he has a very curious helmet

it has the bespoke conformity of a bicoque but it seems to open like a grand bascinet

[vagrant charm]

Bicoque my beloved…

[vagrant charm]

I’m pretty sure that’s jus how earlier bicoques were

[vocal vale]

its really hard to research them because they're not frequently brought up

[vagrant charm]

Or later great bascinets because they started to become more form fitting in days of their later usage in war

[vagrant charm]

Ik😔

Bicoques jus like a great bascinet that evolved into an armet

[outer cave]

WHY THE GUY IN THE BACK ARMED WITH A WOOD SPOON

[outer cave]

@vagrant charm

[vagrant charm]

To eat the guy, duh

[vocal vale]

what benefits does a closer fitting helmet bring? i feel like it would just make killing the wearer easier and make it harder to hear

[vagrant charm]

It adds more deflecting surfaces and also makes it harder to get under the helm with a thrusting weapon or dagger

[outer cave]

that is true. i imagine when the helmet dents the impact is harder against the wearer's face. which is why we need ridiculously long and sharp houndskulls to peck your opponent's eyes out

[vagrant charm]

That’s a pretty shitty hounskull tho

Ian…

My favorite lil guy

[vocal vale]

bicoque or grand bascinet?

[vagrant charm]

When’s this from?

If it’s before 1420, it’s prolly a great bascinet

[vocal vale]

yeah it's early 1400s

from fiore

[vagrant charm]

Then great bascinet definitely

[vocal vale]

christ, it seems like there's literally one bicoque in existence

[vagrant charm]

Also most bicoques have rondels on the sides

So that one easy way to determine

Great… sallet??

[vagrant charm]

Bicoque

[vocal vale]

bicoque with hounskull visor

[vagrant charm]

That’s an armet

[vocal vale]

bicoques are armets

[vagrant charm]

Yeah Ig

Haven’t seen this style of great bascinet very much

[vocal vale]

i would say a bicoque is a close-fitting armet that protects the neck so i suppose it comes down to if that helmet protects the neck or not

[vagrant charm]

Yeah cause they usually have connected plate neck protection

[vocal vale]

cant tell if this one splits open or not

[vagrant charm]

Love the last guys lil chin spikes

[outer cave]

PINHEAD

[vocal vale]

holy fuck

[outer cave]

HARD

HARD AS fuck i cant lie

[vagrant charm]

Love me some Konrad Witz

[vagrant charm]

Dueling shields are so sick man…

[ancient pivot]

doesn't have to split at the middle, it can hinge like a close-helm and still be a bicoque

[vocal vale]

but wouldnt that be a grand bascinet

[vagrant charm]

That’s how most bicoques were iirc

[vagrant charm]

They’re kinda jus an evolution of them

[vocal vale]

bicoque means "two-shelled" and refers to the fact that the front is composed of two plates

[vagrant charm]

Bicoques are jus more form fitting and usually have the side rondels

[ancient pivot]

I think usually great/grand bascinets have bevors that hinge at a different point, whereas bicoques/close-helms have all parts hinging at the same point

[vocal vale]

i think they just developed alongside one another considering they have similar variations of visor

[vagrant charm]

Yeah, like I could also imagine this visor on a bicoque

[vocal vale]

@sullen charm what do you think

[vagrant charm]

Period fantasy but still cool

[vocal vale]

this debate about grand bascinets and bicoques is making me head hurt

[vagrant charm]

Idk, but I still love them both

[vocal vale]

i love them both too

[ancient pivot]

you can kinda just call them whatever because there aren't strict categorisations. If it looks more like a bascinet, call it a grand bascinet, if it's more armet-y then call it a bicoque

[sullen charm]

Looks bicoquey to me

[sullen charm]

Bicoques are pretty much armets tbh

[vocal vale]

these are all grand bascinets in my eyes

[vocal vale]

so would you say the defining characteristic of a bicoque is that it splits in two to open

[vagrant charm]

last one is a grand bascinet

[sullen charm]

To me yeah

either split in the middle or the front

if it's tight around the neck and opens like that to me it's a bicoque/armet

[vocal vale]

so is this a bicoque or a grand bascinet

[vagrant charm]

Bicoque

[sullen charm]

I would call that a bicoque

[vocal vale]

it doesnt look like it splits in two though

im going insane

[vagrant charm]

But how else would he get it off and on his head

Jus art

[sullen charm]

born this way

[sullen charm]

you got a source for this effigy ?

[vagrant charm]

Can’t always trust artists

They don’t always know or care how the armor works

[placid cloak]

Especially medieval artists

[sullen charm]

That's actually pretty wrong

[vocal vale]

dont, i tried to find the source and it just said it couldnt reach the page

[vagrant charm]

I’d trust a medieval artists to make armor more than a modern one

[sullen charm]

Can't always trust artists, because art is always codified

[vagrant charm]

Jus saying you can’t always

I would trust one more than a modern artists

[placid cloak]

Why? The ability to make art doesn’t mean you have firsthand access to what you’re making art of. At least modern artists can use google. If medieval artists didn’t have access to a hounskull, what’re they supposed to do but guess

[vocal vale]

im genuinely tweaking trying to figure out what a grand bascinet and a bicoque even are anymore

[vagrant charm]

They’re just concepts at this point…

[sullen charm]

Do you think artists weren't directly commissioned by someone

[placid cloak]

Being commissioned by someone doesn’t mean you necessarily know what you’re doing, or are gonna put your best into it

[vagrant charm]

If I Google pics of armor I’ll prolly see more natucal mart shit than history

Medieval artist could have seen the real deal

[placid cloak]

They could have, or they could not have

[vagrant charm]

Or been commissioned by someone who has

[sullen charm]

most famous example of that i think has to be Saint Michael by Bermejo, if you have a bit of artistic knowledge you immediately understand by the details and finesse that he had a real harness in front of him as a model

[placid cloak]

Hypotheticals strike both ways

[sullen charm]

Well turns out they did anyway

[placid cloak]

Who’s this hypothetical “they”, because there are myriad examples of artists of the period guessing at form and function, or better yet, playing medieval telephone

[ancient pivot]

they may not have direct references but they would've gone their entire lives being around and making art of similar items

[sullen charm]

http://www.wehrbauten.de/print.php?threadid=1122&page=4&sid=2691b5d2934d6061dd69b1c798b7ec98 @vocal vale found it

scroll down a bit you'll see him

and another member wearing a great bascinet

[placid cloak]

Medical manuscripts of the era have some hilariously poor examples of anatomy specifically because of the morals of the era forbidding autopsies combined with monk copyists not necessarily caring enough to be accurate to the original

[sullen charm]

and they would actually often have direct references

he's so me

[placid cloak]

As a person who took college classes regarding this subject, the implication all medieval art was done with 1:1 references in front of them isn’t just silly- it’s laughable

[vagrant charm]

Me

[ancient pivot]

no one is saying that my man

[placid cloak]

Literally were

[sullen charm]

nuh uh you're extrapolating

[placid cloak]

Great

[vagrant charm]

Period fantasy is jus beautiful

[vocal vale]

are there any extant examples of the first cuirass

[sullen charm]

extants i'm not sure but plenty of artistic representation

[vocal vale]

where's it originate from? i always figured it was from poland but the book that page is from is about italian armor

[sullen charm]

just thing that come to mind if pistoia altarpiece

[sullen charm]

which is italian

but was used pretty universally

[vocal vale]

question from earlier, too

what were the benefits of more close-fitting, or "bespoke" helmets that conformed to the wearer's head and neck

[sullen charm]

comfort ig

just fittin snuggly ...

in his blankie..

[vocal vale]

but you'd burn up

and you wouldnt be able to hear

[vocal vale]

and if you got hit with a hammer it'd dent into your face

[sullen charm]

no

[vocal vale]

i wanna be him so bad

[sullen charm]

cuz it's a rounded surface of tempered steel

[vagrant charm]

Blunt weapons don’t dent armor really that much on foot

Also glances

[vocal vale]

if you got hit with a really really big hammer

hypothetically

[vagrant charm]

On horseback maybe…

[ancient pivot]

if you got hit hard enough to dent your helmet, you've got bigger problems

[vocal vale]

it'd RING YOUR BELL is what im saying

[sullen charm]

then it means bugs bunny is looking for trouble and I would just flee

[vagrant charm]

https://tenor.com/view/hammer-gif-23464742

[sullen charm]

looking right because I just left

[vocal vale]

is that a... is that a.... BICOQUE

[sullen charm]

yeah

or armet

whatever you wanna call it

[vocal vale]

[vagrant charm]

There all jus concepts

They’re really just helmets

[vagrant charm]

Is tHaT THe DOmeD aRmET???

[vocal vale]

[vagrant charm]

They should really rework that helm

[vocal vale]

or at least add a normal bicoque

[vagrant charm]

Or jus take it out of aeternis cause we already have a bicoque

Fuck vanilla

Don’t even got a proper bicoque

[vocal vale]

what is aeternis

i keep hearing of this aeternis

[vagrant charm]

The real Mordhau

Modded server

Makes everything better

But mostly the fashion

[sullen charm]

Imma start calling these sallets and you're just not ready for the truth

[vagrant charm]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-side-eye-cat-gif-16471776482851656018

[sullen charm]

(the joke is that italians called similar armets "celada" in a 1550s ms)

[sullen charm]

as attested by this meme i made a while ago^

[vagrant charm]

Didn’t even know you made this lol 😭

[sullen charm]

i posted it in aeternis a while ago lol

[vagrant charm]

Wait

Are you and kev the same person

[sullen charm]

https://tenor.com/view/jiggy-cat-groove-dance-gif-12593702160723550811

[vagrant charm]

Cause sometimes I see you post fashion in mord

[sullen charm]

we are one

one if the mind, the other the body

[vagrant charm]

Then kev post the same build in aeternis

[vagrant charm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/964267145678716991/1168852126584287232/togif.gif?ex=6553455f&is=6540d05f&hm=b08feb57f1584e9a8accd824ef7b702755bc345f97ed615d2ba6224574833588&

[vocal vale]

how is aeternis different from mordhau

[vagrant charm]

Better armor, proportions, more skins, jus mor everything

I love having my character not look like fridges

[vocal vale]

sweet

[ancient pivot]

oh cool, didn't fancy modding mordhau because of the fucky proportions. It's bad enough modelling armour in bannerlord lol

[vagrant charm]

@vocal vale they also got bicoque, so no more domed armet

[vocal vale]

[plain night]

A man who loses the king's colours loses the king's friendship.

[sullen charm]

larp

[stuck pelican]

PORPORTIONS?

The thing I sent to @vocal vale :

[robust tendon]

it's really a shame this helm is out of period for this game

god it looks so nice

[digital vale]

The Arquebus matchgun came to europe ~1475 so it would fit with the time

[short ice]

Actually the Arquebussy is supposed to be one of the very few ranged weapons planned to come in the future! you can check that and more on the roadmap!
https://trello.com/b/TN5AbCGk/half-sword-roadmap

[fleet junco]

why do people keep on saying arquebus isnt a musket

if gun shoots ball + long to load = musket

i just dont get it

[sullen charm]

The difference is the performances and mechanism

[digital vale]

sick

[sullen charm]

Rouet Arquebus, Nuremberg, Dated 1671

[short ice]

because it's simply not

[sullen charm]

(House at the Foix Castle's museum)

[short ice]

okay bad example then because they WERE brought to Europe around 1475

[sullen charm]

Looked much different tho

[short ice]

yeah haha

Not that much

[sullen charm]

Yes, that much

the overall shape yeah sure not too far cuz that's a gun

But the details and mechanism was very different

And well, the shape itself

[short ice]

here's one from the 15th century

Quality of the image is shot

it was a double bore, held two rounds apparently

Pause, reel that back. They wrote that extremely misleading.

I read more

This is a musket.

[sullen charm]

Allow me to post it in full res

[short ice]

And I quote " A Habsburg commander in the mid-1560s once referred to muskets as "double arquebuses" The matchlock firing mechanism also became a common term for the arquebus after it was added to the firearm."

[short ice]

so yeah, that is confusing.

[digital vale]

gonna blast a demon back to hell
(these npcs arent human)

[sullen charm]

Arquebuses still existed in the 1560s iicr so could still be one

[short ice]

my apologies for that misinformation there, they wrote that in an extremely confusing way

[short ice]

Yes but this is for sure a musket, the source says it is

[marble delta]

I see in roadmap one of the Pikes I like, and that is the Awl Pike.

[sullen charm]

:3 !! ^w^'...

[short ice]

just bros being bros

[digital vale]

fr

[rich totem]

just like everything else medieval the terminology is quite vague and contradictory, but there are references referring to "heavy arquebus" as "muskets" which are as far as i know not within the timeframe of the game

the main distinction is that a musket is larger-bore, and has better metalurgy allowing you to fire larger rounds with higher charges

[short ice]

ballista when

[sullen charm]

and to some extant, a different mechanism

[rich totem]

or they're simply heavier because they have more metal allowing for the same thing

[sullen charm]

NOT a mledieval weapon!

[short ice]

wh

[sullen charm]

w<"

[short ice]

[sullen charm]

Big ass siege crossbows are tho

[rich totem]

iirc even this isnt entirely accurate because medieval people could never agree on anything

[short ice]

haha I win

Banned for life

[sullen charm]

source: first google result

[short ice]

yep

superiority

obviously " the collector .com " is accurate

Cmon

[marble delta]

I wish I could see Estoc ingame for good, armour on armour half swording and combat.

In sword pic Estoc is on the left.

[short ice]

best ass shaving sword

[marble delta]

Yeah.

[sullen charm]

I must say that i've seen some torsion based machinery in earlier MS and earlier mentioned (11-13thc) but they reffer to springals and i'm not sure i've ever seen anything like it in the 15thc

[short ice]

springal

that sounds like

A soft

[marble delta]

When the arquebuss gets added, I'mma go for full on Finnish marksman mode.

[rich totem]

springal sounds like a pokemon

[sullen charm]

Steven Springal

[short ice]

rabbit or something on an alien planet

[short ice]

Yeah

just tamed a springal

let's go

[sullen charm]

springbok..

[short ice]

what did they do tho?

Springals

Spring sum shit?

[rich totem]

as far as i know its related to the balista in the sense that its arms under tension used to lob projectiles but theyre certainly different from ballistas

[sullen charm]

I heard somewhere from ppl I trust that catapult and balista are actually inverted

Like the spoon that throws shit is actually a balista and the crossbow looking one a catapult

But idgaf cuz those are lames and canons are better..

[rich totem]

i know nothing about that, all ive ever heard is that balistas are commonly known as 2 arms under tension that throw stones

[sullen charm]

luv me artillery..

[marble delta]

What is a damn cannon, catapult, or a crossbow, I'm Finnish, and I like throwing hands, and logs at my enemies.

No but fr, it is some weird stuff.

[sullen charm]

mitä vittua

[marble delta]

Mitä hiton vitun vittua.

[sullen charm]

U.U

[short ice]

mica, vista, yulien

[robust tendon]

very much out of period here, but painted armor like this would be very nice to have

[edgy narwhal]

thats blackened

[robust tendon]

isn't it painted? or is there a forging technique im not aware of

[edgy narwhal]

it is coloured with a chemical process

[stuck pelican]

WHAT.\

[bright token]

Sword refs

[unkempt rampart]

Skulls left over from the battle of visby

[vagrant charm]

They look kinda dehydrated

[unkempt rampart]

Imagine what they looked like with the flesh still on them

Vomit inducing stuff

[stuck pelican]

Split in half is insaine

[unkempt rampart]

Battle of Visby was an utter massacre

Both sides literally hacked away at one another with axes, crushed each other other with warhammer and impaled one another with spears

The gore and stench was so horrible barely any of the armor or weapons were looted, which is why we still have skeletons in their armor and such

There was one leg bone I saw that had literally been cut into, down the marrow

[outer cave]

man they just made the guys on effigies do whatever

What could the hanging orbs be

[edgy narwhal]

They are bells, it was fashion for a short time in germany

[outer cave]

I wonder why they were in fashion lolol

[edgy narwhal]

Well fashion is not always rational, just look at modern trends

But it might have something to do with the use of bells on horses

[sullen charm]

" short time" ermm... Gonadaan.....

you see them pop around the end of the 15th century !

[edgy narwhal]

oh damn, well tbh I havent delved too much into the bells too much

[sullen charm]

Last one is from the netherlands 1475

[viral pulsar]

i would kill for that late medieval longsword

[fleet junco]

we need draped maile

that does nothing at all

[edgy narwhal]

awesome

[sullen charm]

I believe i've seen a couple more from the 15th cnetury but can't find them rn

[smoky topaz]

Average medieval battle if I'm being honest

[fleet junco]

add the box

[vocal vale]

i like this guy’s outfit, saw it a while ago

[sullen charm]

is current one is garbage tho

no idea why he even went that route

[unkempt rampart]

Nah, there was just something about Visby, it’s one of the only times we ever find such armored and equipped skeletons

[patent halo]

honestly being able to split skulls and bones with chopping weapons would be a very gruesome but nice detail in-game.

[vocal vale]

is it different from the image hmong posted or did he go into an even weirder direction

[sullen charm]

Well for starter his kastenbrust bp is a bit emmm.... subpar apparently he made it himself, which ok props to him but his previous was way better, secondly his lames are abysmal (they aren't in the pic) but he said it himself than he couldnt even walk in it

Again, his previous kit was way way way better

[vocal vale]

that sucks

[vagrant charm]

You got a pic of it?

[sullen charm]

I don't have a full one but he used this cuiras

[vagrant charm]

Oh yeah idk why he’d change it

I like non fluted kasten brust better but the one he made jus looks like trash

Still respectable tho

I get he’d want to use something he made

[ancient pivot]

Love this visor

[stuck pelican]

wtf is this helmet

[vagrant charm]

Found his old kit

[sullen charm]

Ah yeah that one

[sullen charm]

Bicoque

[stuck pelican]

i hate it so much 😭

[vagrant charm]

Nah bicoque best helmet known to man

Objectively

But yeah that kind looks kinda weird

Me(right) and who?

[vocal vale]

whew doggy thats a cool visor

[vocal vale]

adding onto the bicoque answer, "true" bicoques open like armets (split down the middle) which is why bicoque translates to "two shelled", but a lot of helmets that look a lot like them were present in the HRE, and while equatable to a grand bascinet in mechanism, it's easy to mistake one for a bicoque and you can usually get by calling it one

[vagrant charm]

Idc how it opens if it looks like a bicoque I’m calling it one

[sullen charm]

In the book i'm currently reading, Dr. Nicholas P. Baptiste is of the opinion that bicoques (as seen in a couple of texts) do refer to early form of armets, prior to the addition of their nape rondels

(At least in french speaking lands)

[fleet junco]

pretty good looking kasten brust

[vagrant charm]

Yeah his bicoques pretty cool

[silk crest]

Metropolitan Museum of Art

1550 г

[stuck pelican]

way too new

[blissful tundra]

He looks as if he’s taken a blow to the genitals

[sullen charm]

not really

[fleet junco]

Fall

[robust tendon]

a fellow with boots over greaves, c. 1468-1475 according to source

[lyric light]

Would be nice to have, see it it art a decent amount

[livid onyx]

would be nice to have different colored armors

it wasnt all grey

there was indeed, emo knights.

[edgy narwhal]

The armour in the painting is not really black. It is just an attempt in portraying reflection

[stuck pelican]

Life ruined

[ancient pivot]

You do still get blackened and blued armour though

[edgy narwhal]

Yes but rarely

Depictions that I know of are later

Most depictions however, especially in manuscripts are not meant to show black armour. Some show evidence of being applied tarnished silver

The process of blueing is more often seen after 1500.

However there is more evidence that some armour was browned such as in flemish and burgundian influenced lands

Overall gilding is the most common process above all of them

[robust tendon]

iirc they had bluing and blackening for a while, it's just ludicrously expensive to do properly and thus only the wealthiest of the nobility were able to blue or blacken their harness

[upper seal]

slick

[vocal vale]

1505-1507

[fleet junco]

isnt the game 1450

[robust tendon]

1430-1480

but i dont think cloth covered harness is way out of period

though it may not have been in fashion at the time

i think we do have surviving examples of say a velvet covered sallet or other helm, and the garment in the image seems to be a scheke

the dating is probably for when it was produced and not strictly the armor as well, and may be a depiction of a past time period from someone in a later period

[vocal vale]

i forget that this channel is for half sword time period

i just like posting interesting medieval stuff

[obsidian sun]

Sallet and Bevors are very drippy I hope we get more of them and styles as I like the German lobster tails

[sullen charm]

such an ass repro tho

[tight sand]

i think it fits perfect to the period

[edgy narwhal]

well jackets were worn over cuirasses, but that one is too late

the painting is from around 1500 or after

wich is out of scope

the black sallet would also not fit, although there are some other covered sallets fount in germany at around 1470

these imitate the same hats as those that were fashion at the same time, so distinguishing them from actual hats is sometimes hard

[edgy narwhal]

here is also some art depicting the jackets, so called "Schecke". these are civilian fashion and often worn often armour by all classes

[unkempt rampart]

This is the funniest interaction I’ve seen on the server

[robust tendon]

i quite like the one with the maille and the rondels

[edgy narwhal]

Rondel love

[tepid edge]

Reminder that this is an only a channel for posting historically relevant (15th century European) references for arms, armor and clothing.

[tepid edge]

Why are the swords more badly rusted than the armor

[lyric light]

armour probably restored

[stuck pelican]

you did Not have to add that last part 😭

[reef thicket]

They were used more

[stuck pelican]

blood corodes swords

[river cedar]

my man bossk

[sullen charm]

Because the rusted ass & heavily dmged swords would prolly have been found in the dirt somewhere while the armor would prolly be found in armouries or private collections with minimal rust/dmg on it

for instance here's some sallets found in France (first one in a river and second one i'm not sure, but in Savoy)

And here's a german sword found in the alexandria arsenal

[edgy narwhal]

once again, northern german padded armour/jack

usually found worn under kastenbrust style armour, but not limited too. Also found in later years with a slightly different style

[unborn tartan]

My main interest is Italian armor between about 1450-1500 but I look at some art from other countries as well, I feel like I see very clearly and obviously colored armor pretty often. Often a battle scene will have a guy in bright silver armor next to a guy in dark grey, blue or even black armor. I don't know why they would randomly color in different guys armors differently in the scene if they weren't depicting armor that were different colors.

[edgy narwhal]

It heavily depends on context, skill of the artist and local customs

manuscript miniatures can be tricky, as a lot of depictions are of biblical nature and thus have to be taken with a grain of salt

symbolism is very heavily used in such scenes

[unborn tartan]

Quite often the art depicts armor and weapons very accurately, plus the sides in the battle are not any specific people and on the same side there's a variation of color (black, silver, and a few gilded is pretty common) so I can't think of any possible symbolism for a mix of colors on the soldiers on the same side, and this is pretty common in depictions of real battles too (not bible allegories).

It's just so common for art of all types to have black armor. This isn't a matter of artistic skill as this painting for example is clearly not even trying to depict a highly polished armor.

I believe most of these surface finishes have been worn of with time and/or polished away later as there are examples of the probably original surface being intact under overlapping parts of the armor.

This is just speculation though. I don't actually know and I haven't seen original examples, nor read anything from the period referencing armors that had coloring.

[edgy narwhal]

I disagree, this clearly shows polished armour. as a sidenote to highly polish your armour was in a lot of cases to provide protection against rust

[unborn tartan]

I disagree, it looks like a glossy blackened or somewhat blued finish. Artists from this period tend to depict shiny armor quite well, with dark reflections in it with bright highlights. The painter of this seems to have a good understanding of light and shadow so I doubt he would paint a silver colored armor black.

If you compare to Tobias Capwells armor, the effect is similar. It reflects light but not as much as the polished ones, I think the artist depicted that quite faithfully

[edgy narwhal]

Like I said before it heavily depends on context and skill of the artist

here it can be seen that the metal is just depicted to be darker

in other cases such as these I know for a fact that these were originally silvered

and not all art is that great

and even then darker armour remains quite rare

these are english

some of them were silvered, the others are just drawn darker

that does not mean those were all black

this is german

[unborn tartan]

Not saying that that they were black, just darker

[edgy narwhal]

well I am not contesting the existence of blued armour, it is just very rare

If we look at the HRE I don't see any reason to believe that blackened armour was anything beyond incredibly rare

[unborn tartan]

I agree with that, I pretty much only find this in Italian examples. In Italian art this is actually very common in my experience.

[edgy narwhal]

the comparable wealth of some italian states would also explain if it was more common

although I still belive that most depiction were it is unclear should not be interpreted as such

[vocal vale]

i like the recreation of giles capel’s helmet

[sullen charm]

mmmmh pollaxes

[robust tendon]

tourney armor like this was never my thing personally. I much prefer english style 15th ct harness for a foot combat set of armor

[ivory lily]

My honest reaction:

[sullen charm]

ew

[robust tendon]

ew indeed

looks like those shitty larperator """"crusader"""" armors

[ivory lily]

I know it’s a flat top

I’m getting a Klappevisor

[ivory lily]

No it was just a horribly flawed helmet that I decided I “needed”

I should have just gotten a bascinet

[robust tendon]

gives my boy a bad name

maciejowski bible greathelms ❤️

[ivory lily]

IF I SENT A MACE FULL SWING DOWN ON YOUR HEAD I’D SNAP YOUR NECK

[robust tendon]

augh

[sullen charm]

cool mini.. you like to see it .. oh yeah..

Anyway.. plz no more pre or post 15th century stuff..

[ivory lily]

Why?

Oh my bad

[robust tendon]

strange how a lot of french arms have the brittany/bretagne backdrop

[ivory lily]

“What a perfect day to kill each other :33”

[robust tendon]

thun sketchbook

[sullen charm]

that's the end of the battle btw, Franco-Breton wins, the guys on foot are english prisoners

i think

[robust tendon]

this is from the same sketchbook iirc but this looks like a later harness, not sure

[sullen charm]

the hermine yeah, well, brittany arms have them cuz that's how it is in brittany

a bit like the fleur de lys in the more central regions & burgundy and crosses in the south

[robust tendon]

i always figured they have elements of other heraldry because they have some sort of relation to the family that first used them

[sullen charm]

Arms of Aquitaine & Guyenne / Normandy / England

so funny

[robust tendon]

like how in anjou(?)'s heraldry you have the fleur and the english/norman lions

[sullen charm]

French anjou is 3 fleurs with a red contour

english yeah, the 3 english lions + fleur de lys cuz larp

[robust tendon]

i was actually thinkling of edward the black prince's heraldry but anjou seems to have the fleur and lions as well

this one

[stuck pelican]

Who is this fucking giant

[unborn tartan]

bruh the horse looks fucked up

[native dagger]

:(

[sullen charm]

black prince coa is the english angevin one but with the "heir" white line i forgot the name of this heraldic device

cuz he a prince

[sullen charm]

is there a very tiny guy right next to him

[stuck pelican]

Yes

@sullen charm

[sullen charm]

?

oh nvm didn't see the pic

thought it would have been goliath

pretty sure these would be french due to the st michael cross

or from savoy

[edgy narwhal]

The ms is english

[sullen charm]

but who is it depicting

[edgy narwhal]

probably french

[dawn niche]

Why doesnt he wear pants

[robust tendon]

may just be the color of the hose/whatever underneath

[turbid shadow]

He is

[dawn niche]

Troll pant

To confuse enemy

Working really well

[dawn niche]

"Can you breathe better now?"

[edgy narwhal]

they are just pink hosen

[robust tendon]

not so sure about the period accuracy on this one but it does look 15th ct

Richard Beauchamp's armet, 13th Earl of Warwick, ca. 1450.

based on a tombstone of him according to armorer

[vocal vale]

i would say its undoubtedly a frogmouth

better

[robust tendon]

eh, it definitely looks like an armet

it has two visors iirc

and frogmouths don't have visors

[vocal vale]

awfully frogmouth shaped armet then

[lyric light]

Huh he based an Armet off a frog helm

[sullen charm]

It is not forbidden to think that he had both

[robust tendon]

yeah. And such an armet could certainly be used by him

frog mouths are also a more ornamental/tournament piece, so he’d probably use something like that along with his armor in field

[fleet junco]

No

[sullen charm]

@crackedgamer